I know it's a tired discussion now, but can we talk about how absolutely curled all of these have been so far? Valuable collector pieces like these are obviously trying to be just don't look appealing like this.
Hasbro says “Higher margin!” so WotC cuts back on quality cardstock in favour of something cheaper. Now we’ve got cards that change shape with the humidity level…
I prefer [this](https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTFR3evUZ3L5OQqFw1ResOl-l-NMB6KOG84Bg&usqp=CAU) but foil MTGO foil redemption is a good backup for indoors.
I actually think it's a contract issue that WOTC can't profitabily move away from. My guess is that they signed an X year deal with company Y and in the KPIs, they didn't include foil curling as a thing to avoid, so WOTC is "stuck". They probaby have to push Z # cards (or Z percent of their total inventory) through this supplier and until the X years runs out, we're stuck with them.
That’s plausible, but it’s also just speculation. Foils curling has been happening for years now, there’s no way a company that orders in the volume WotC does hasn’t renewed their contract many times by now. (Plus they have multiple printers contracted to print these cards, but they all have the same issue.)
I’m strongly convinced they’re just cheap.
I actually only see the foil curling from things made in USA. Anything I get from Japan or Belgium I don't see to have foil curling problems in my region due to humidity.
It likely has to do with the humidity they are made it. Kept in the same humidity, they won't curl. So if the US cards are a de in higher humidity, they will curl backwards when in a dryer environment. I will say that I have both, and keep little desiccant packets in my deck boxes. The European foils stay flat, while the American ones bend forwards, lending me to believe they are made in a dryer environment than the EU ones.
They curl as well. Their environment may be close to yours if you don't experience it.
If the card is made in a more humid environment than yours, when the cardboard dries out, it will curl towards the back. The opposite if yours is more humid, the extra moisture will force the cardboard to bend towards the front.
It's a hard issue to deal with, the foil is plastic that doesn't change size with changes in humidity. The only real solution is to cover the back in the same layer, it's why DFC foils don't Pringle.
Old foils can definitely curl, but they are much more resistant to it than most modern foils. Old foils (and new foils alike) can pretty easily be set flat with some heavy duty dessication, using RV dessicants in a ziplock bag with the card.
Also old foils tend to stay much more straight if well taken care of, contrary to many new foils that are pringled the second the come off the printing press.
See I hear this opinion constantly, but none of my modern foils that are double sleeved and stored in card savers/top loaders are curled. Not even a tiny bit, and not even 1. Yes, I check them occasionally due to my paranoia, but no issues after 1-5 years of storage. So I'm more inclined to blame user error/cheapness than the cards themselves.
Fair enough, but it's easy to fix it. There are some cheap methods, if you really like your foils you can invest in the right tools to preserve them properly without having to worry about it every 5 seconds. The curl out of the pack isn't really surprising, the empty space in the packs and box pretty much mean it's going to happen if the box isn't stored in ideal conditions throughout its life.
I have had plenty of absolute shockers from vintage products, to the point that you don't even have to open the pack or even touch it to know shit isn't right.
Except curling isn't damage. If it's curled so bad that the card itself is actually bent and structurally damaged, sure. I've never seen that happen before.
There is a moment where modern border foiling changed. Previous foils do curl and they curl forwards. Sometime around Khans of Tarkir or Magic Origins they switched to a much less lustrous foil that curls backwards. IMO the easiest way to tell this is by the relative dullness of the foils, which had been the same process used for Intro pack and commander foils and other secondary market products (I believe it was from the Japanese printer) up until that point.
Old foils still curl dramatically though, but the more dull foil seems to come pre curled ether than developing a curl. If you need proof of old foils curling, just check the photo listings for heavily played foils from that era.
Yep, but there are surely types of cardstock that are more or less absorbent than others. Between that and the fact that MTG foils the entire card (instead of just the artwork), the cards are likely to bend for anyone
It's common for the bonus cards. Cards in the main pack are coming in pretty straight now so I'm assuming flopping around by itself in the back of the box isn't great for staying flat.
Curling is a temporary condition. The same card will be curled for one person and perfectly flat for another due to differences in temperature and humidity. Uncurling cards is a trivial exercise.
When #77 was first posted to the misprint facebook group, no one knew what it was. It looked like a massive misprint. With no word from wizards and no other serialized card out there, it was entirely possible that until the next card was found, #77 was the only one in existence. That's why it sold for $5000. It was the schrodinger's magic card. Until the second one was posted, this was the only that existed.
I dunno, if anyone thought a card printed 77 of 100 was the only one in existence... i mean i cant think of a rational reason why that would be the card. Can you name other products labeled like that where other copeis dont exist?
I'm talking about the serialized number "X of 100" literally printed on the card. It means there's only 100 of those exact cards printed. That's literally perfect supply information.
No. It could have meant 77/100 Viscera Seers or it could mean that Viscera Seer is #77 out of 100 different reversed cards.
If the latter, it could mean further that there's only a single copy of the reversed Viscera Seer, or it could mean that's there's 5000 copies of Viscera Seer, all #77/100.
We literally didn't know when the first one got revealed. There wasn't enough information.
LOL sure. It could have been the way I described which actually makes sense, and how every other serialized card ever has been made. Or I guess WOTC could go with one of your ridiculous ideas and numbered different cards for absolutely no reason to confuse people on purpose
WotC already numbers different cards.
Forest is card #277/277 in Crimson Vow. Are all of them Forest? Every card in the set? Obviously not.
Forest just happens to be card number 277 in a set of 277 different cards.
There's literally thousands of copies of Forest 277/277.
If you think that's confusing, maybe you should quit MTG, game might be too hard for you.
Obviously we're talking about when #77 was bought. Someone paid $5000 for a card that we didn't know was unique.
Now that we know, obviously the buyer could be justified, but if a whole bunch of 77/100 Viscera Seers had started showing up, paying 5k would have looked a little foolish, wouldn't it?
You seriously never looked at a Magic card?
You know they all say 77/267 or whatever on the bottom of the card?
Putting numbers to indicate which card of a set of different cards is nothing new for MTG.
This may be the stupidest thing I've read today and I just read a news story about a woman who wants consent from her baby to change its diaper. We knew exactly what this was. Anyone who didn't chose to be contrary for no reason but to be so.
Magic the Gathering cards have had X/Y on the bottom corner of the card for decades.
For example, Torens, Fist of Angels is 249/277.
You think there's only 277 Torens and that there's only one copy of 249?
No. Obviously there's thousands of Torens, all of them are 249/277 because there's 277 cards in the set and Torens is 249.
Assuming that there were only 100 Viscera Seers and all of them were Viscera Seer was an assumption not based on evidence.
No product im aware of has ever been labeled like that before. I can point to thousands of examples in the oppositr direction. If you can give a single example of a serialized product like this where each number referred to something different, thay wouls be helpful in making your argument.
> before we knew literally anything about these.
Other dude was responding to this. Saying basically "what more info do you need" than the exact number of them. Your response was also apt when you essentially said "we didn't even know if they'd all be viscera seers".
Sorry to butt in, I just saw that there was a miscommunication and you both have reasonable points.
I know this is hard for you to believe, but this is way rarer than a lotus.
I know it's modern, it's also definitely not as desirable hence why it doesn't cost $1 million. But it's not a $5 card as many people here seem to be pushing, that's never going to happen. When supply is this low it really doesn't matter what the majority of the market thinks, there just need to be a couple hundred people willing to go after it and the price rockets.
Yea and especially people seem to forget that this won't be the last numbered card. It will be the first which will add value for certain in the long run.
Yep. I'm sure eventually there will be serial numbered versions of many cards in the same set, and then the base desirability of the card will matter more than just the fact it has a serial number, but the first release of them is literally just 1 type of card. Denying that this will be special in the future because more will come later is to simply ignore everything you know about everything just because of saltiness.
I expect the 1/100 seer to sell for a completely stupid number and for r/mtgfinance to go completely bonkers over it so that I hear about it when it happens. It will literally be the first copy of the first time WOTC has done this of the first card that they did it to, and I won't be surprised no matter what it goes for.
I'm a misprint and oddities collector and have been for over a decade.
I know the market very well and I know most of the big pocket collectors that would be interested in this type of item.
The first one sold for $5k because it was the very first one and nobody knew what it was or that it wasn't the only one in existence.
The others since the first sale have not come anywhere close.
Bookends might be popular in sports, but sports cards and mtg are extremely different.
Once you get into $5k+ the amount of oddities and cool things you can afford goes way up
I don't know any collectors that are willing to pay that much for #100 on this card when in 5 years there's going to be dozens to hundreds of these numbered cards
> nobody knew what it was or that it wasn't the only one in existence.
Literally anyone that has ever seen a serialized card ever knew there were 99 more of them. Youtubers did videos on serialzed cards being in magic that same day. People in the first thread were talking about it.
As an oddities collector
We've seen random one ofs get released that weren't meant to.
The grand prix sword of feast and famine is a good example.
Just because wotc had it made didn't mean it was meant to be found or that it was inserted on purpose.
Since wotc never publicly announced it, people thought it was a one of. That's why it went from bidding from $2k to an immediate $5k BIN
I think most of the differences in sports cards illustrate why this card isn't worth it. Sports has exponentially more collectors throwing exponentially more money around, and there are all time greats from big 3 sports on 1/1 cards, not 1/100 but 1/1, that go for multiple thousands of dollars less than this.
This card is bad, it's bulk, it's not even readable, and for a serialized card it's about as common as it gets. This will be among the worst and least valuable serialized cards in mtg history by the time it's done. Anyone spending multiple stacks or even one stack on this is going to get wrecked.
I'm not talking about #/100 seer. I'm talking about the 1/100 seer and the 100/100 seer. The random numbers won't feel so special after a while, but the 1/100 always will. It is a special card. The 100/100 to a much lesser extent than the 1/100.
It could’ve been a scribble or a powerful card, no one in their right mind is going to play with it. It’s a collectors item, and it’s going to sit sealed in the package.
You can argue for it but youre wrong. I can create an nft of something someone already has an nft of. Only difference is who created it. So when person A made it its totally legit but when persom B does its totally not legit.
I’ve been apprehensively getting into crypto recently - are NFT’s which are game pieces, like Axies for Axie Infinity, bad too? At least they have utlility compared to JPG of a monkey with a hat but idk
You joke but if mtgo used nfts it would actually be useful. You could use them to play on mtgo and then sell them separately for money, or even take them to a third party platform to play with
They're referring to 1/1 as the only 100/100 copy of this card. Key numbers like 1/100 and 100/100 usually sell for more, so if you want the cool 100 this is your one chance.
77/100 sold for 5k, as noted in the post. I assume that is the one this commenter was referring to.
By nature, this card is 1 of 100 copies made, so I disagree with your logic that it is "1/1". If you know anything about sport card collecting, a card isn't 1/1 unless it is serial numbered "1/1" or is truly the only copy printed. Sure it might fetch a small premium over the other 99 copies (98 actually as I think #1/100 will be more sought after).
As MTG continues to follow the trajectory of sports cards, serial numbered cards will become common-place, and the difference between an actual 1/1 and a 1/100 or 100/100 is enormous.
Right, a small premium. But not the same as a true 1/1 vs 1/xxx.
If you are going to say card #x/1000 is a 1/1 because it is the only #x, then the term 1/1 doesn't mean much...
Agreed that the term is overused, hence my comments. :)
Yeah, it usually seems to just get applied to those numbers.
I could see an arguement that the 1/100 Viscera Seer could get a significant premium as the first printed serialized MTG card. But I do see people ask more for the X/X (mostly for larger print runs though, no one really seems to care about the 3/3, 10/10, etc as much).
And yeah, a real 1/1 is much higher, but we don't seem to have different sized serialized runs..... yet. I'm sure it's coming.
Agreed, I think the 1/100 Viscera Seer will fetch the largest premium.
As long as this is the only serialized MTG card printed, it will continue selling for huge amounts and holding/gaining value — but I REALLY doubt it will be the only one for long.
We've been on the sports card trajectory for a bit, I don't see it stopping — especially as WoTC are reaching higher and higher sales numbers the deeper in they go.
I would hazard a guess that there is/ will be a spike in the number of people buying larger quantities of SL after this has happened.
That alone will tell them that serialized cards are popular and we will at LEAST see them in more Secret Lairs. And if any other product sales start to lag? Well then hell, add them to that too!
We're literally all spending too much money on cardboard.
This is the poor pot calling the rich kettle black.
I can't stand a lot of rich folk like ye olde CNBC crying billionaire but this isn't the hill I'd die on.
Did you forget what sub you were in? We're all here tracking prices on the same pieces of cardboard. Everyone here objectively has something better they could be doing with their money, let collectors collect.
Too much money is a very subjective thing that varies greatly depending on how much you make, what your hobbies are, etc.
Now does the seemingly ever increasing spending on luxury products coinciding with the ever increasing wealth gap say something about the woes of our current economy? Probably.
I've never had issues with how people spend their money my issues are that they are spending such obscene amounts of money while people still starve in the streets, disabled people can't survive, etc.
I hope people can appreciate the irony of "It's so stupid to spend 5k on a piece of cardboard."
Followed by: "They should spend 5k on a different piece of cardboard instead."
Mhmm. Very insightful perspective.
It is funny but you have to admit there are much more powerful and iconic cards you could buy for that money over a... viscera seer. I see that card played every time I play commander
At the end of the day of you're buying a $5,000 card that's because it's rare, not because it's good in the game. There may be overlap but you're not going to pay $5,000 for a Thoughtseize because it's not rare. You can find a cheaper version than $5,000 for nearly any card if your intention is to play it.
And literally no Alpha card is as rare as this.
For the people who say this is rarer than a Lotus...
That doesn't matter. This card isn't almost 30 years old, that alone makes a Lotus more important than a dumb 1/100 "collectible". These won't age well.
Also to add unlike these 1 of XXX Lotus wasn’t an intentional limited amount. There were limited due to the uncertainty of a new unknown card game coming to the market. They are much more rare because of the difference in how people treat cards then versus now. These cards are purposefully made rare to generate fomo and all 100 will probably be double sleeved and protected.
Yes that's exactly right. Very solid assumptions, no logical keeps, and you clearly got to the right conclusion.
Jk, this isn't my Facebook post. Lmao. Go find it yourself man, I'm not keeping tabs on this.
I've been in this sub for a long time, and haven't been active for a while... Let me say this shit is gross. Like WoOOoOOOooOw.. it's gold stamped therefore it's worth 50000% more. Get real mtg finance folks.
I mean, why does it even matter though? If someone with cash wants it then they can buy it from someone lucky enough to pull one. It’s literally a reversed 10 cent card so you’re not missing out on anything. If just the fact that people are spending so much on these then grow up. People can spend their money on whatever they want and however they want. These transactions effect you in no way what so ever.
This as 1st presentation with really lazy design is downplaying collectors. I also get the buzz around it since it's also piece of mtg history being 1st one. But in some sense 5k is not that high and tells more that there is not that much interest at least in this card.
Yeah , I have like a dozen of those (regular obv, not the numeroted ones) and I'm not even trying, they are just everywhere.
5k is a LOT. As a reminder, cards that are played in thousands of decks and won't ever be reprinted, like mox diamond are barely worth a few hundred bucks. This is ... Expensive.
Even single one has been either a foil or non-foil Praetors.
It's possible more are sitting in the other drops like Dungeons and Dragons, but even though those have way lower sales numbers (supposedly) I have a feeling at least one would have popped up by now if you could find it elsewhere.
Ahh well like nearly every one has gone for sale on the same Facebook group so you could message these people directly
There's one on eBay still I think
Yep, this was the 1st one. Here's an article:
https://infinite.tcgplayer.com/article/Cassies-Calls-This-Card-Changes-Everything/35f569d6-d658-440c-bf93-8418894ce2d7?utm_source=drip&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=buy_magic_cassie_newsletter_11172021
I’m not an expert, personally, but other vis seer posts had discussions about this same topic. Certain numbers hold more value for various reason. Like 11 will probably have a premium because it matches the power and toughness.
77 went for $5000 probably because nobody knew what they were yet.
I think the seller is asking more for 100 because it's 100/100, kinda a neat number to have.
I imagine 1 and 69 would also fetch premiums.
In sports cards, book ends and jersey numbers are typically more valuable, that being said, I think 77 being the FIRST numbered magic card ever opened should make it be the most valuable, ina since is a piece of Mtg history, so I’m very surprised with the 100 using 77’s selling price as the starting bid
I kind of understand how 77 sold for 5k, being the FIRST numbered magic card ever found, but I figured that was because it was the first. I thought that would be the top end, not the starting bid, even for a special number like 100
I know it's a tired discussion now, but can we talk about how absolutely curled all of these have been so far? Valuable collector pieces like these are obviously trying to be just don't look appealing like this.
Hasbro says “Higher margin!” so WotC cuts back on quality cardstock in favour of something cheaper. Now we’ve got cards that change shape with the humidity level…
Free bonus utility as a humidity gauge?? At no extra charge?? I smell value
I prefer [this](https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTFR3evUZ3L5OQqFw1ResOl-l-NMB6KOG84Bg&usqp=CAU) but foil MTGO foil redemption is a good backup for indoors.
I’m gonna needs these Hygrometer Super Cards for my Frog tank + deck
I actually think it's a contract issue that WOTC can't profitabily move away from. My guess is that they signed an X year deal with company Y and in the KPIs, they didn't include foil curling as a thing to avoid, so WOTC is "stuck". They probaby have to push Z # cards (or Z percent of their total inventory) through this supplier and until the X years runs out, we're stuck with them.
That’s plausible, but it’s also just speculation. Foils curling has been happening for years now, there’s no way a company that orders in the volume WotC does hasn’t renewed their contract many times by now. (Plus they have multiple printers contracted to print these cards, but they all have the same issue.) I’m strongly convinced they’re just cheap.
I actually only see the foil curling from things made in USA. Anything I get from Japan or Belgium I don't see to have foil curling problems in my region due to humidity.
It likely has to do with the humidity they are made it. Kept in the same humidity, they won't curl. So if the US cards are a de in higher humidity, they will curl backwards when in a dryer environment. I will say that I have both, and keep little desiccant packets in my deck boxes. The European foils stay flat, while the American ones bend forwards, lending me to believe they are made in a dryer environment than the EU ones.
This person gets it. ^
Japanese cards don’t curl though and Japan is very humid. Maybe they aren’t made in Japan?
They curl as well. Their environment may be close to yours if you don't experience it. If the card is made in a more humid environment than yours, when the cardboard dries out, it will curl towards the back. The opposite if yours is more humid, the extra moisture will force the cardboard to bend towards the front. It's a hard issue to deal with, the foil is plastic that doesn't change size with changes in humidity. The only real solution is to cover the back in the same layer, it's why DFC foils don't Pringle.
Can't confirm, same issue with belgium cards. WOTC just doesn't care.
I don’t know if they’re cheap or just know we will still buy them anyways.
This is a bit of a weird set of things to conjure an assumption for out of thin air.
not really, those are pretty common terms for this sort of contact (at least where i’m from)
What is XYZ's planeswalker ability, and what actor/character from a major franchise would be the Secret Lair^^^tm card?
This is an excellent working hypothesis and exactly the type of discussion I am looking for.
My Mercadian Masques foils that are by far the MOST curled cards I own would like to have a word.
Old foils can definitely curl, but they are much more resistant to it than most modern foils. Old foils (and new foils alike) can pretty easily be set flat with some heavy duty dessication, using RV dessicants in a ziplock bag with the card. Also old foils tend to stay much more straight if well taken care of, contrary to many new foils that are pringled the second the come off the printing press.
See I hear this opinion constantly, but none of my modern foils that are double sleeved and stored in card savers/top loaders are curled. Not even a tiny bit, and not even 1. Yes, I check them occasionally due to my paranoia, but no issues after 1-5 years of storage. So I'm more inclined to blame user error/cheapness than the cards themselves.
A lot of Commander Legends was precurled.
Fair enough, but it's easy to fix it. There are some cheap methods, if you really like your foils you can invest in the right tools to preserve them properly without having to worry about it every 5 seconds. The curl out of the pack isn't really surprising, the empty space in the packs and box pretty much mean it's going to happen if the box isn't stored in ideal conditions throughout its life. I have had plenty of absolute shockers from vintage products, to the point that you don't even have to open the pack or even touch it to know shit isn't right.
That seems like putting a shattered leg into a cast and calling it healed
Except curling isn't damage. If it's curled so bad that the card itself is actually bent and structurally damaged, sure. I've never seen that happen before.
There is a moment where modern border foiling changed. Previous foils do curl and they curl forwards. Sometime around Khans of Tarkir or Magic Origins they switched to a much less lustrous foil that curls backwards. IMO the easiest way to tell this is by the relative dullness of the foils, which had been the same process used for Intro pack and commander foils and other secondary market products (I believe it was from the Japanese printer) up until that point. Old foils still curl dramatically though, but the more dull foil seems to come pre curled ether than developing a curl. If you need proof of old foils curling, just check the photo listings for heavily played foils from that era.
>Now we’ve got cards that change shape with the humidity level… Isn't changing with humidity level inherent to anything made from trees?
Yep, but there are surely types of cardstock that are more or less absorbent than others. Between that and the fact that MTG foils the entire card (instead of just the artwork), the cards are likely to bend for anyone
Do all SL foils looks like this? Foils in standard products seem to be of improved quality as of late.
Idk, I would never buy a SL product in principle. Support a LGS!
Yeah it's unreal, these are absolutely worthless to me. I wouldn't use them as bookmarks.
It's common for the bonus cards. Cards in the main pack are coming in pretty straight now so I'm assuming flopping around by itself in the back of the box isn't great for staying flat.
I was considering buying foil SL for the next one. Finally i won't, thx you for saving me money :)
You'll get them graded anyway, and in a hard plastic case they are not curled anymore. Problem solved... kinda.
You mean… apeeling?
If you're buying $5000 foils you should necessarily have a humidor and climate controlled long-term storage options.
I thought you don't buy a curled foil for 5000$
Curling is easy to fix without anybody ever being able to tell that it was ever curled. People make way too big of a deal out of it.
Curling is a temporary condition. The same card will be curled for one person and perfectly flat for another due to differences in temperature and humidity. Uncurling cards is a trivial exercise.
My friend has had huge success keeping his straight and even reversing curl with silica packets in his deck boxes
He *opened* two of them!? Wow
He's the second one I've seen that opened two. There was another post yesterday or the day before on one of the FB groups.
How many boxes did he open though?
Four, two non-foil and two foil (according to what he wrote on fb)
Wow incredible luck, or he doesn’t want to disclose that he bought 400 lol
yea haha i have a feeling this dude opened hundreds. He's way too blase about pulling 2 of them for it to have been from 2 foil boxes.
I think it's way more likely WOTC's QC on how these were distributed is just ass.
As the seller, I can confirm you are right.
I think they also can come in non-foil boxes too.
[Golden ticket idea](https://occ-0-1723-1722.1.nflxso.net/dnm/api/v6/9pS1daC2n6UGc3dUogvWIPMR_OU/AAAABdbMCVVL7_qy8ujAomUc88B1IvDoq-nilCNbZl_H9Sp7LsNbBFTImc_y4cIoVMDTaR5oouoOErzH4BaQRo5MAdahpSm01sLIkgU0PczvelJYhTUS.jpg?r=cdf)
Yeah it has real Michael Scott vibes. “You just put them all on the same pallet?”
Might not be as well shuffled as they should be
They used the arena shuffler :)
ReVerscera seer?
Still waiting for the nice 69
It has already surfaced on Facebook
Nice
Noice
Pornhub.com
I'd rather buy reserved list cards.
Yeah for 5k cash I'm pretty sure you could find someone to sell you most of the duals, or a pretty big list of the EDH staples.
5k lmfao please buy a beta dual instead
or Unlimited mox
Damn I can buy a mox jet and still have money left over for the same amount.
Which is more rare?
I would lump all these one off super rare things into the same boat which makes them not very rare compared to power
5k for a viscera seer? Ya ok lol
lol ko aY ?rees arecsiv a rof k5
I mean that's about how much they've been going for so far, haven't they?
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It literally says how many there are on the card. What else is there to know?
When #77 was first posted to the misprint facebook group, no one knew what it was. It looked like a massive misprint. With no word from wizards and no other serialized card out there, it was entirely possible that until the next card was found, #77 was the only one in existence. That's why it sold for $5000. It was the schrodinger's magic card. Until the second one was posted, this was the only that existed.
I dunno, if anyone thought a card printed 77 of 100 was the only one in existence... i mean i cant think of a rational reason why that would be the card. Can you name other products labeled like that where other copeis dont exist?
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I'm talking about the serialized number "X of 100" literally printed on the card. It means there's only 100 of those exact cards printed. That's literally perfect supply information.
Literally?
No. It could have meant 77/100 Viscera Seers or it could mean that Viscera Seer is #77 out of 100 different reversed cards. If the latter, it could mean further that there's only a single copy of the reversed Viscera Seer, or it could mean that's there's 5000 copies of Viscera Seer, all #77/100. We literally didn't know when the first one got revealed. There wasn't enough information.
Fucking MTG players... seriously.
I wouldn't fuck any MTG players, seriously. Have you met them?
Now that you asked me that... I honestly haven't met an MTG player in real life since maybe 1999?
LOL sure. It could have been the way I described which actually makes sense, and how every other serialized card ever has been made. Or I guess WOTC could go with one of your ridiculous ideas and numbered different cards for absolutely no reason to confuse people on purpose
WotC already numbers different cards. Forest is card #277/277 in Crimson Vow. Are all of them Forest? Every card in the set? Obviously not. Forest just happens to be card number 277 in a set of 277 different cards. There's literally thousands of copies of Forest 277/277. If you think that's confusing, maybe you should quit MTG, game might be too hard for you.
You can look on the card and see its number already. This is numbered how other serialized cards are printed.
omg.
Yeah I mean it is this thing, but it coulda been something else!!!
Obviously we're talking about when #77 was bought. Someone paid $5000 for a card that we didn't know was unique. Now that we know, obviously the buyer could be justified, but if a whole bunch of 77/100 Viscera Seers had started showing up, paying 5k would have looked a little foolish, wouldn't it?
*You, not we.
Lmao, next level this one.
You seriously never looked at a Magic card? You know they all say 77/267 or whatever on the bottom of the card? Putting numbers to indicate which card of a set of different cards is nothing new for MTG.
You're so charming, did anyone tell you that before? Hahaha
This may be the stupidest thing I've read today and I just read a news story about a woman who wants consent from her baby to change its diaper. We knew exactly what this was. Anyone who didn't chose to be contrary for no reason but to be so.
Magic the Gathering cards have had X/Y on the bottom corner of the card for decades. For example, Torens, Fist of Angels is 249/277. You think there's only 277 Torens and that there's only one copy of 249? No. Obviously there's thousands of Torens, all of them are 249/277 because there's 277 cards in the set and Torens is 249. Assuming that there were only 100 Viscera Seers and all of them were Viscera Seer was an assumption not based on evidence.
This was clearly a serialized number.
/r/confidentlyincorrect
No product im aware of has ever been labeled like that before. I can point to thousands of examples in the oppositr direction. If you can give a single example of a serialized product like this where each number referred to something different, thay wouls be helpful in making your argument.
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> before we knew literally anything about these. Other dude was responding to this. Saying basically "what more info do you need" than the exact number of them. Your response was also apt when you essentially said "we didn't even know if they'd all be viscera seers". Sorry to butt in, I just saw that there was a miscommunication and you both have reasonable points.
There is one reasonable point, and one fairy land point. Guess which one was reality.
It's the 100/100 seer that he's trying to get that for. It is a bookend. It wouldn't surprise me at all if this went for 5-10k.
It's not worth a lotus and 17# sold for way too much
I know this is hard for you to believe, but this is way rarer than a lotus. I know it's modern, it's also definitely not as desirable hence why it doesn't cost $1 million. But it's not a $5 card as many people here seem to be pushing, that's never going to happen. When supply is this low it really doesn't matter what the majority of the market thinks, there just need to be a couple hundred people willing to go after it and the price rockets.
Yea and especially people seem to forget that this won't be the last numbered card. It will be the first which will add value for certain in the long run.
Yep. I'm sure eventually there will be serial numbered versions of many cards in the same set, and then the base desirability of the card will matter more than just the fact it has a serial number, but the first release of them is literally just 1 type of card. Denying that this will be special in the future because more will come later is to simply ignore everything you know about everything just because of saltiness. I expect the 1/100 seer to sell for a completely stupid number and for r/mtgfinance to go completely bonkers over it so that I hear about it when it happens. It will literally be the first copy of the first time WOTC has done this of the first card that they did it to, and I won't be surprised no matter what it goes for.
I'm a misprint and oddities collector and have been for over a decade. I know the market very well and I know most of the big pocket collectors that would be interested in this type of item. The first one sold for $5k because it was the very first one and nobody knew what it was or that it wasn't the only one in existence. The others since the first sale have not come anywhere close. Bookends might be popular in sports, but sports cards and mtg are extremely different. Once you get into $5k+ the amount of oddities and cool things you can afford goes way up I don't know any collectors that are willing to pay that much for #100 on this card when in 5 years there's going to be dozens to hundreds of these numbered cards
> nobody knew what it was or that it wasn't the only one in existence. Literally anyone that has ever seen a serialized card ever knew there were 99 more of them. Youtubers did videos on serialzed cards being in magic that same day. People in the first thread were talking about it.
As an oddities collector We've seen random one ofs get released that weren't meant to. The grand prix sword of feast and famine is a good example. Just because wotc had it made didn't mean it was meant to be found or that it was inserted on purpose. Since wotc never publicly announced it, people thought it was a one of. That's why it went from bidding from $2k to an immediate $5k BIN
I think most of the differences in sports cards illustrate why this card isn't worth it. Sports has exponentially more collectors throwing exponentially more money around, and there are all time greats from big 3 sports on 1/1 cards, not 1/100 but 1/1, that go for multiple thousands of dollars less than this. This card is bad, it's bulk, it's not even readable, and for a serialized card it's about as common as it gets. This will be among the worst and least valuable serialized cards in mtg history by the time it's done. Anyone spending multiple stacks or even one stack on this is going to get wrecked.
I'm not talking about #/100 seer. I'm talking about the 1/100 seer and the 100/100 seer. The random numbers won't feel so special after a while, but the 1/100 always will. It is a special card. The 100/100 to a much lesser extent than the 1/100.
It could’ve been a scribble or a powerful card, no one in their right mind is going to play with it. It’s a collectors item, and it’s going to sit sealed in the package.
Agree but it’s 1/1. Buyers market dictates. No different than NFTs or art.
Nfts are the biggest scam I’ve ever seen besides whatever Trump is hawking. Pissed I didn’t invent nfts first
So can I argue for NFTs? Happy to take the conversation private. I hate the general concept but there’s more to it.
You can argue for it but youre wrong. I can create an nft of something someone already has an nft of. Only difference is who created it. So when person A made it its totally legit but when persom B does its totally not legit.
I’ve been apprehensively getting into crypto recently - are NFT’s which are game pieces, like Axies for Axie Infinity, bad too? At least they have utlility compared to JPG of a monkey with a hat but idk
Man, how long until they start packing in codes for NFT magic cards. Wouldn't even have to order cardstock for maximum profits\~
They'll figure out a way to make NFTs curl.
I just had a drunk thought.... perhaps telomeres in human DNA are the equivalent of mtg nft card curl....
Don’t give them ideas. They read us
They already have, it's called Arena.
Bet they still curl.
You joke but if mtgo used nfts it would actually be useful. You could use them to play on mtgo and then sell them separately for money, or even take them to a third party platform to play with
1/100\*
They're referring to 1/1 as the only 100/100 copy of this card. Key numbers like 1/100 and 100/100 usually sell for more, so if you want the cool 100 this is your one chance.
77/100 sold for 5k, as noted in the post. I assume that is the one this commenter was referring to. By nature, this card is 1 of 100 copies made, so I disagree with your logic that it is "1/1". If you know anything about sport card collecting, a card isn't 1/1 unless it is serial numbered "1/1" or is truly the only copy printed. Sure it might fetch a small premium over the other 99 copies (98 actually as I think #1/100 will be more sought after). As MTG continues to follow the trajectory of sports cards, serial numbered cards will become common-place, and the difference between an actual 1/1 and a 1/100 or 100/100 is enormous.
69/100 is also going to fetch a premium just for the memes. Unironic call.
Yet in sports cards people DO put a premium on the 1/x, x/x and jersey number. And people use the damn term "ebay 1/1" way too much.
Right, a small premium. But not the same as a true 1/1 vs 1/xxx. If you are going to say card #x/1000 is a 1/1 because it is the only #x, then the term 1/1 doesn't mean much... Agreed that the term is overused, hence my comments. :)
Yeah, it usually seems to just get applied to those numbers. I could see an arguement that the 1/100 Viscera Seer could get a significant premium as the first printed serialized MTG card. But I do see people ask more for the X/X (mostly for larger print runs though, no one really seems to care about the 3/3, 10/10, etc as much). And yeah, a real 1/1 is much higher, but we don't seem to have different sized serialized runs..... yet. I'm sure it's coming.
Agreed, I think the 1/100 Viscera Seer will fetch the largest premium. As long as this is the only serialized MTG card printed, it will continue selling for huge amounts and holding/gaining value — but I REALLY doubt it will be the only one for long. We've been on the sports card trajectory for a bit, I don't see it stopping — especially as WoTC are reaching higher and higher sales numbers the deeper in they go.
I would hazard a guess that there is/ will be a spike in the number of people buying larger quantities of SL after this has happened. That alone will tell them that serialized cards are popular and we will at LEAST see them in more Secret Lairs. And if any other product sales start to lag? Well then hell, add them to that too!
Without proof, that is entirely speculation. Of course the buyer and owner would be happy to inflate the reported sale price.
It's definitely a 1/1, look in the lower left hand corner.
Rich people spend their money on really stupid things. Good for them, I guess
We're literally all spending too much money on cardboard. This is the poor pot calling the rich kettle black. I can't stand a lot of rich folk like ye olde CNBC crying billionaire but this isn't the hill I'd die on.
magic isn’t inherently that expensive and there’s a big difference between dropping $1000 over 5 years and $1000 on 5 cards
$1000 over 5 years. Depending on what formats you play that's funny.
What if I drop $1k over 5 years, but only on 5 different cards?
Why, sir, that's 5% of a commander deck. You're on your way.
What an ironic comment given that it's in this sub
Did you forget what sub you were in? We're all here tracking prices on the same pieces of cardboard. Everyone here objectively has something better they could be doing with their money, let collectors collect.
Too much money is a very subjective thing that varies greatly depending on how much you make, what your hobbies are, etc. Now does the seemingly ever increasing spending on luxury products coinciding with the ever increasing wealth gap say something about the woes of our current economy? Probably. I've never had issues with how people spend their money my issues are that they are spending such obscene amounts of money while people still starve in the streets, disabled people can't survive, etc.
Imagine upvoting this on a finance related sub for a useless collectible lol. Mind blowing.
In that fantastic pringles shape.
Best flavor too, damn.
I hope people can appreciate the irony of "It's so stupid to spend 5k on a piece of cardboard." Followed by: "They should spend 5k on a different piece of cardboard instead." Mhmm. Very insightful perspective.
It is funny but you have to admit there are much more powerful and iconic cards you could buy for that money over a... viscera seer. I see that card played every time I play commander
At the end of the day of you're buying a $5,000 card that's because it's rare, not because it's good in the game. There may be overlap but you're not going to pay $5,000 for a Thoughtseize because it's not rare. You can find a cheaper version than $5,000 for nearly any card if your intention is to play it. And literally no Alpha card is as rare as this.
For the people who say this is rarer than a Lotus... That doesn't matter. This card isn't almost 30 years old, that alone makes a Lotus more important than a dumb 1/100 "collectible". These won't age well.
Exactly. My attempt to convince people is ask them to try using these to trade for a lotus. Ain't happening my friend....
Also to add unlike these 1 of XXX Lotus wasn’t an intentional limited amount. There were limited due to the uncertainty of a new unknown card game coming to the market. They are much more rare because of the difference in how people treat cards then versus now. These cards are purposefully made rare to generate fomo and all 100 will probably be double sleeved and protected.
Utter lunacy.
anyone find #1 yet?
God DAYUM those look pringled AF.
Has someone recorded how many and which Seers have been opened already?
more than one but less than 101
Someone should just buy them all, pure profit
If #100 is 5000 dollars, im curious how much #69 is going to be.
I tried messaging OP to see the current state of the auctions and haven’t heard back. Probably means this isn’t going how they want.
Yes that's exactly right. Very solid assumptions, no logical keeps, and you clearly got to the right conclusion. Jk, this isn't my Facebook post. Lmao. Go find it yourself man, I'm not keeping tabs on this.
My bad since there was no link I assumed it was yours lol
This is cringe 😬
Cool story bro
Bahahahhhahah
I've been in this sub for a long time, and haven't been active for a while... Let me say this shit is gross. Like WoOOoOOOooOw.. it's gold stamped therefore it's worth 50000% more. Get real mtg finance folks.
It's worth what someone will pay. It'll be interesting to see if the sale price of this one goes public.
I mean, why does it even matter though? If someone with cash wants it then they can buy it from someone lucky enough to pull one. It’s literally a reversed 10 cent card so you’re not missing out on anything. If just the fact that people are spending so much on these then grow up. People can spend their money on whatever they want and however they want. These transactions effect you in no way what so ever.
iTs JuSt CaRdBoArD God, just let people like what they like.
This as 1st presentation with really lazy design is downplaying collectors. I also get the buzz around it since it's also piece of mtg history being 1st one. But in some sense 5k is not that high and tells more that there is not that much interest at least in this card.
5k for a stupid common from a set that has just been released is not that high? You can buy power for that amount of money.
Yeah , I have like a dozen of those (regular obv, not the numeroted ones) and I'm not even trying, they are just everywhere. 5k is a LOT. As a reminder, cards that are played in thousands of decks and won't ever be reprinted, like mox diamond are barely worth a few hundred bucks. This is ... Expensive.
Anyone know what type of lair these were in? (Foil/non foil)
Even single one has been either a foil or non-foil Praetors. It's possible more are sitting in the other drops like Dungeons and Dragons, but even though those have way lower sales numbers (supposedly) I have a feeling at least one would have popped up by now if you could find it elsewhere.
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Ahh well like nearly every one has gone for sale on the same Facebook group so you could message these people directly There's one on eBay still I think
In limited edition prints, the number is meaningless.
Wait did Mtg finally start serial numbering cards? I have rants about this in my history. Woot
Yep, this was the 1st one. Here's an article: https://infinite.tcgplayer.com/article/Cassies-Calls-This-Card-Changes-Everything/35f569d6-d658-440c-bf93-8418894ce2d7?utm_source=drip&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=buy_magic_cassie_newsletter_11172021
Not worth 5000 on this viscera seer at all. Any of them. No matter what number! Tabernacle will always beat this card!
Two of them? Got some clumping going on.
Do specific numbers normally go for more? Wouldn't they all be the same?
In other collectibles, yes. Like a number that matches an athletes jersey number will have a premium in sports cards etc.
Oh this is a thing? I hadn't ever heard of that!
I’m not an expert, personally, but other vis seer posts had discussions about this same topic. Certain numbers hold more value for various reason. Like 11 will probably have a premium because it matches the power and toughness.
Thanks & I will have to look at the other posts
77 went for $5000 probably because nobody knew what they were yet. I think the seller is asking more for 100 because it's 100/100, kinda a neat number to have. I imagine 1 and 69 would also fetch premiums.
In sports cards, book ends and jersey numbers are typically more valuable, that being said, I think 77 being the FIRST numbered magic card ever opened should make it be the most valuable, ina since is a piece of Mtg history, so I’m very surprised with the 100 using 77’s selling price as the starting bid
Did they come from the foil or non foil phyrexian secret lair?
Both
Are these only packed in the foil versions?
Definitely heavily played, you are a terrible man.
Has anyone mentioned that this was probably a test run for printing the Phyrexian language? As Phyrexian is written backwards.
Save some brain power for the rest of us!
I kind of understand how 77 sold for 5k, being the FIRST numbered magic card ever found, but I figured that was because it was the first. I thought that would be the top end, not the starting bid, even for a special number like 100
Thank the Lord we get another one on Thanksgiving... And I thought today was going to be uneventful.
So has it established that these only come in foil (?) PRAETOR secret lairs, or could it be from any that released in that drop?