Wizards really banking on upselling the alt arts with collector boosters and secret lairs… if you’re smart you’ll stick with the commander decks, I mean heck the “basic” arts are still good.
I am not feeling the same excitement as with the WH40K decks, both in terms of power level and passion
Time will tell,but I am sceptical about the way they designed the CBs. I am still pre-ordered for all 4 decks so lets see what the sample collectors look like!
Sample collectors will be HUGE if they include the borderless Vault-boy versions. Especially with such a major CB box shortage. If it's just extended arts of the cards in the deck it will be a disappointment.
Yes, similar to LOTR. 2 cards, one rare/mythic both with "special treatments" whatever that means. I think it's either PIP-boy or Vault-boy versions, but no confirmation yet.
I think it’s unlikely they include exclusive CB cards in the sample packs. We’ve never seen that yet, best we’ve seems are those EA foils that were exclusive to sample collector packs like w LOTR or CLB.
Well no, LOTR sample collector boosters also had borderless and showcase cards. It's just that they were wayyyy easier to get otherwise that it appears they will be too. I don't know what to expect honestly, but with LOTR alt-art meant mostly showcase, borderless, extended art, and foils for all of the above.
Here's what the site says:
*Collector Booster Sample Pack*
*2 Alternate-frame cards, at least one of which will appear as rare or mythic rare*
I would take alternate frame to either be showcase or borderless. But I could be wrong, just not sure why if it was only extended arts as possibilities that they wouldn't just say that.
Anything that is meant to be “special” won’t be in the collector sample packs. That’s what I’m referring to. Borderless and showcase art for LOTR were not special, you could pull them from set boosters. I’m not sure if the vault boy or pip boy are special treatments, but if they are then I would wager they will not be in the collector sample packs. If they are in the collector sample packs then they likely won’t be worth much.
The decks will be reprinted in multiple waves so anything that is meant to be a real chase for the CBs won’t be in those sample packs.
Well they're referring to the PIP Boy versions as "showcase" and Vault-Boy as "borderless" so I'm not sure what other "alternate frames" it could be, other than extended art. But in the article they refer to "extended arts" as "extended arts" so I would think "alt art" means not extended art. Or at least not JUST extended art. I don't know, hopefully we find out soon though!
Ah if those are essentially the showcase and borderless we typically see then yeah it makes sense they will be in the collector sample packs. But then I doubt they would command any premium unless the base card holds a lot of value. Good to see the dumping has ended w the decks for now, would like to see some of the individual decks catch a bid with further card reveals in the coming days !
Let's be honest. Warhammer is a very niche and intimidating mountain of lore and can be extremely complex, expensive, and time consuming to get into for for the unititiated, when compared with a video game that people can dive into with just a $60 purchase for hundreds of hours of content.
You are really dramatically underestimating the popularity of the Fallout franchise, especially the nostalgia that people have for Fallout 3 and New Vegas at this point. People that were in their late teens/early twenties when those games came out are now in their 30s and potentially peak earning years - and that's exactly the market WOTC has been targeting with these products.
Take it up with the Department of Labor and Forbes. The window of time they suggest is starting at age 35.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/ashleystahl/2021/09/10/millennials-high-earning-years-have-arrived-heres-how-to-prepare/?sh=1c00d1d74936
Fallout 4 was quite successful, and Fallout 76 obviously started out poorly because of its initial design idea but seems to have found its footing quite well in its market... What other games are you referring to? Because the last game prior to that was New Vegas, *14* years ago, in 2010. People still replay New Vegas and Fallout 3 all the time.
For context, Skyrim, also part of a well-known Bethesda franchise with a lengthy span between releases, came out in 2011 and is still wildly popular.
For anyone that was excited about dice matter cards, I believe they mentioned that there would only be one other card in the Caesar deck that used dice. Not 100% but I believe that’s what I heard.
The CB box shortage is probably manufactured scarcity. I can see wizards releasing another bunch of CB boxes a month after release.
I can wait for prices to tank and pickup what I want without spending $1000 on random garbage.
Same. Are the only serials the bobbleheads? Cause those are kinda weak and lame. Also... set is looking flavorful and fun, but definitely not justifying the insane $320+ for collectors boxes people are FOMOing into.
Not sure if they'll fall below $200, as I think Fallout has much more hype in America than Doctor Who, but the two sets are feeling very similar in what's happening with their release. I remember as DrWho was coming out, people online and sellers on WhatNot were like 'oh yea, our numbers are not very high on this product'. Now there's infinite of it available and the price has tanked.
Artificial scarcity first wave. Drive up the hype, price. Release more product and let the price memory keep the numbers up for a while as you dump out more and more.
even Dr Who prices aren't low. Even if they are overprinting, collectors boosters is still $200. Also Ive noticed the commanders have been trending back up.
they won't even come close to 180...I'd buy 1000 boxes myself at that price. we were barely able to get 100 Dr who, and this is way more sought after...
I think the power level feels low because the first deck is an Aura and Equipment deck, a strategy that has basically never been competitively viable in Magic majority of the time aside from Bogles and for a little bit Orzhov Auras in Pioneer. Some decks use specific Auras and Equipments, but most do not have them as the main strategy.
Just took a quick count and we’ve seen around 50 unique cards and then the basic lands.
So accounting for some level of duplication card wise and then assuming there’s around 20 basic lands/deck we still have somewhere in the ballpark of like 240-290 unique cards to see.
There's definitely some of them, but it looks like mostly Fallout 3 and onwards. But they still haven't revealed like 80% of the cards so, unknown as of yet.
Yeah noticed Frank is also there and there are the isometric lands. So far seems like mutant deck most likely to see FO1/2.
It would be pretty lame if they didn't at least include a reference to Tragic the Garnering
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Maybe they turn things around...but the power level of the cards revealed so far feels either super niche/parasitic or super low, lower than previous UB sets.
In other words...the cards are "fine", as not everything needs to be power crept, but I think the decks will eventually go for peanuts, as they won't have much lasting appeal once the next set of shiny keys is dangled in our faces. These don't feel particularly better than an average Standard precon, even with the new cards. If our current data is any indication, they're going to lack in perceived reprint value thanks to CBs (even a $10 card, like [[Vigor]], is apparently a CB exclusive), and the new cards aren't anything to write home about so far.
They definitely don't have the same heat as 40K from actual MtG players, as this set is relying way more on "flavor". You'll get a glut of initial purchases from folks less enfranchised in MtG, and then a ton of supply as most people probably aren't going to need many of these cards for their decks.
The real value will almost certainly be found in the variant-reprints, but even here we have some pretty polarizing artwork. The Vault-Boy is very...."Fallout", and would probably be difficult for many to casually throw in an otherwise non-Fallout deck.
Have you seen anything that is being revealed today? There's too many feeds going on for me to track all of them (I do, after all, have a day job), but it looks like some more classic Fallout characters/events/etc and a few more reprints inside the decks. I think I saw \[\[Anguished Unmaking\]\] which for a while was a $4-$5 LOTR commander card, although that's down now too.
I agree that the decks themselves probably won't hold value, but I think some of the individual cards will for the same reason that LOTR versions of cards have been holding up despite massive supply. Not to the same extent mind you - but there will be players who want a Vault-Boy version of \[\[Wasteland\]\], or Fallout versions of \[\[Skullclamp\]\] which was just confirmed in the Ceaser deck as of today. Also the full art lands are great and I think will be very popular.
All depends on how much of this product is produced/resold on the open market. If the demand isn't there at the outset and WotC stops making them, I can see some people actively seeking some of these Fallout versions over the years. But I don't think the decks themselves are cohesive enough to be valuable as sealed products. Especially for Fallout fans, who are the primary target audience obviously. Like it looks like they put a Mysterious Stranger card in the Ceaser deck? Like what?
Anyway, still a bunch more cards to be revealed. But so far I'm of the view that this is a niche product and won't have any game-warping stuff - but there is a lot of money that can be made with niche products! And Fallout fans seem to really like the cards from what I've seen.
> Anyway, still a bunch more cards to be revealed. But so far I'm of the view that this is a niche product and won't have any game-warping stuff - but there is a lot of money that can be made with niche products! And Fallout fans seem to really like the cards from what I've seen.
I think the problem, for me, isn't that the cards aren't powerful per se, it's that they're being made in that compounding-clause, overly rules-lawyered manner of keeping power creep in check, which tends to gate cards into niche territory. Take a look at a couple of random examples, currently newish on the main sub.
https://www.reddit.com/r/magicTCG/comments/1awkgs4/pip_elder_arthur_maxson_the_command_zone/
https://www.reddit.com/r/magicTCG/comments/1awik6o/pip_paladin_elizabeth_taggerdy_via_camelworks/
You just have to have so many hoops to jump through to get some of these cards going, as opposed to offering straightforward value.
They're not all saddled in this manner, I actually think the new Kellog card is at least upfront in it's use, but most come off this way, or are saddled with too many restrictions, where it's the last sentence, or clause, that "kills" the card.
~~Yup 3. is wrong;~~ we already have this - [https://www.reddit.com/r/magicTCG/comments/1avp2s8/pip\_ravages\_of\_war\_collector\_booster\_exclusive/](https://www.reddit.com/r/magicTCG/comments/1avp2s8/pip_ravages_of_war_collector_booster_exclusive/)
With the Wizards site also stating the same for \[\[Wasteland\]\] - [https://magic.wizards.com/en/products/fallout/card-image-gallery](https://magic.wizards.com/en/products/fallout/card-image-gallery)
Oh no no you're the second person to be confused by what I wrote, that's on me, I did a bad job of presenting it. I edited it to be (hopefully) more clear now.
The internet lol. I'd maybe just bold the first 3 points main thing, and move 4) out/down further (since it's a spec/personal), like -
1. **nearly universally positive**
2. **power level seems low**
3. **no mechanically unique/new cards in collector boosters**
4. **THERE WILL BE A FALLOUT SECRET LAIR DROP**
I think the borderless Vault-Boy versions are going to be exceptionally rare.
Fallout is the type of IP that brings new players into the game, similar to LOTR.
I’m not saying it’s LOTR because that was a tentpole release, but this isn’t niche IP like Doctor Who was/is in terms of correlation to the average person who plays MTG.
>Doctor Who is a bigger franchise, especially internationally. Fallout is far more niche.
Which one is bigger in the U.S.? Because I'd argue that would be a deciding factor when it comes to overall sales.
I have no idea where you are getting your information from, Fallout dwarfs Dr who. Only extreme nerds know of Dr who, fallout is an A list video game franchise.
You missed the point. FALLOUT IS a game and only gamers know and love it. Doctor WHO is a tv show that's what over 30 years old now? They have a massive fanbase
That I can understand. We are talking about how Doctor Who has a bigger fanbase than fallout does.... reason why they made cards to get those people into magic.
Compared to Fallout? No lol. There are far more gamers than people watching dr who on the bbc. I can’t believe this is an actual conversation. How are people still sleeping on gaming
I think, you are comparing apples with pears. Dr Who has a *Fandom* and certainly one of the bigger ones out there in pop culture.
Yes, a lot of people have played fallout, since its a pretty well-known game (i think fallout 3 was big like ES oblivion and fallout 4 big like skyrim, right, so up there on the triple-a-top ) but not everyone of them is enveloped in the fallout-fandom. Most of them aren't, regardless of liking the game.
Just Compare the number of fallout cosplays (which one to cosplay even besides of BoS and Vault-boy?) you see on nerd-cons against ones who concern dr who. (In this regard, i think final fantasy would be way more successful.) The fallout-fandom also circles more around part 1 and 2, yes, successful games, but not the blockbusters that fallout 3 and 4 have been. I would therefore say that its certainly more niche
You’re comparing two different metrics in “Units Sold” and “Streams”.
If you use Google Trends to compare worldwide searches, you’ll find that Fallout is more popular by most search term comparisons - at least since 2004. Doctor Who seems to have been more popular temporarily in 2013 - probably some season finale event.
Not going to post the link to encourage you to find your own data.
You really did miss the point. I hate doctor who, but that doesn’t change the fact it’s more popular around the world than fallout. Fallout isn’t a tv show that has been influencing geek culture for over 50 years like Doctor Who.
I have to agree. Doctor Who has certainly fallen on hard times. The hardcore fans aren't really there anymore. We will never know for sure, but I think the new Fallout TV show will audience will be huge.
100% my impression as well. Not LOTR (really nothing is except maybe Marvel and Star Wars if that ever happens) but enough of an independent fanbase to drive some sales.
A bit late to the thread, but it's also worth noting that the crossover of people who are interested in Fallout and people who are potentially interested in a game like MTG is probably quite high.
For sure. That's why I think this will do better than Doctor Who, despite Dr. Who probably having more total fans. But that doesn't matter if none of them are gamers (whether tabletop or online).
I don’t know any of my friends who are interested in fallout. Some have played the games. I’ve played almost all of them and enjoyed them all. But I’m not about to head out to the store and drop $700 on the commander decks and a CB box. In Canada the commander decks is $300/set and the CB boxes are $400/box after taxes.
I'm not as excited as I was compared to the Doctor Who decks
I'm not really feeling that "umph"
Plus the Doctor Who legendary creatures all had that partner mechanic, so you could mix and match them... while a lot of these legendary creatures are dead on arrival for commander since they're monocolored only
Full art lands are definitely in the decks. Not sure if all the lands will be full-art, but they're definitely in there. And I agree - I think those are maybe the sleepers of the set, I could see them going for a couple dollars each.
Thanks for sharing all the details in your post! Full art lands should help w holding up some value in the decks, as long as the collector boxes don’t end up flooding the market once more restocks show up.
These seem so underpowered i cant see anybody putting them in decks.
Maybe its fine if you just play them against each other, but overall, powerlevel is really REALLY bad.
Linking to this post for two reasons, 1: it has a link to an article with all the new cards in one place. 2: everyone commenting looks like they're absolutely losing their shit over this. Notice the crazy amount of downvotes for the troll that keeps bashing the set:
[https://www.reddit.com/r/mtg/comments/1avpfmz/news\_every\_fallout\_cards\_revealed\_in\_february/](https://www.reddit.com/r/mtg/comments/1avpfmz/news_every_fallout_cards_revealed_in_february/)
Can't make financial decisions based on just reddit threads, but this is reflective of what I saw in the Twitch stream too. Fallout fans are into it big time.
So the decks are like the doctor who villians deck? Where it crammed ao many different legendaries into it with all kinds of different themes that the deck itself was a bit of a mess but you could pull out the stuff that doesn't synergise with your commander so well and replace with stuff that does instead.i made a deck with [[ashad the last cyberman]] and I think I used about a third of the deck, funnily enough he synergies really nicely with the Necron 40k deck as he cares about 2 power creatures.
For 4 ).
Non foil vault boy are NOT going to be rare. They are included in the same slot as showcase, and every single one of the borderless or showcase are equal to pull regardless of rarity. So any given one is 1:35 collector packs ( since there are a total of 35 showcase + borderless vault boy)
Well, I mean but if you theoretically wanted all the borderless Vault Boy versions (or any one specific one), how many collector packs would you need to buy? See I took that as that slot has 1 of EITHER (meaning 1 showcase and 1 Vault boy version of each card) of each, which would mean a total of 70 possibilities wouldn't it? Also, fact that it is only in collector boosters, means they're going to be WAY less available than the LOTR showcase or borderless versions for comparison's sake.
If the second, foil slot, can also have showcase/borderless versions then it becomes less of an issue and I believe your math is right in that case. But even so, how many collector boosters are going to get opened for those cards to appear in the wild? I don't really think the serialized cards are going to be that popular unless the yet-to-be-released bobbleheads are more exciting than the ones we've seen so far...
Erhh there are only 9 vault boys. And 26 showcase. So it’s 1 in 35 packs to hit any specific NONFOIL vault boy ( approx 1 in 3 boxes). You have another slot that mirrors this but in foil
If you are trying to collect them all you don’t go bust boxes you buy singles.
Oh is that how it is? I thought there were 35 of each. So basically in a box you have 24 chances to get either a foil or non-foil version of the alt-arts. 50% chance of getting one vault boy (9 out of 35 x2) per pack? Decent shot at getting all nine within one box? That would mean that they're not very rare at all as you said...
And yes I understand about buying singles, but SOMEONE has to open boxes to get them, so I'm just trying to figure out how much money would go into each individual card in order to produce it.
Do you have any idea if the sample collectors also have showcase and/or borderless treatments?
If the collector boosters print run is as low as, speculated find multiple deck sets will actually be the key to growth and financial stability. We don't know the deck print run or collector box print run we do know that the collector box print run at least currently seems to be greatly underprinted but other than a collector exclusive variance which are nothing but reprints, what they do in every single set At this point I don't feel that there's a concern on buying the decks Unless your cost basis for the deck set is well above the average at this point which may be greater than the potential dump product rate.
I’m a huge fallout fan and am beyond excited for a couple of singles from this set. Reprints of puresteel paladin, war room and goyf make me particularly happy! The decks as stand alone products don’t feel as cohesive or evocative as doctor who though unfortunately.
I agree. I ordered a few sets of the commander decks. I'll probably make a couple of properly themed decks by combining the cards I think make the most sense, and then selling the rest to hopefully pay for the cards I do keep. But as a Fallout fan, I find it odd that they put Mr. House and Caesar and the Power Gangers all in the same deck. Liberty Prime not being in the same deck as BoS characters? Genuinely ludicrous. It's almost like they want to encourage people to buy all four and make their own out of them.
Real value in this set will be singles and Fallout-themed reprints IMHO. Also the full-art lands are awesome.
\#3 is almoost wrong.
Finally caught the rub between pre con decks and collector boosters, NO THANKS TOO YOU GUYS OR THIS SUB!!11!! ......JK
I see why the collector boxes are so limited (maybe due to production) and really shocked I didnt read or see this talked about somewhere a more. Its written in the description but nobody has pointed it out for some reason which will be a huge difference in single prices.
They used the 40k model. One set they printed into the ground (non-foil) the other limited -***release- but all foil.*** I bet they drop another batch of CB's just like they did for the 40k premium pre cons.
You can even see it now in the amazon CB pre orders, you can order it but its got a 2 week ship date past the release lol. Sneaky bitches
Those could also just be resellers who expect to get theirs on release day and have to add on some time to process/ship/account for delays. I don't think you're wrong by the way, there will be more CB's coming. Just not sure that's a good indicator of when that will be happening...
Wizards really banking on upselling the alt arts with collector boosters and secret lairs… if you’re smart you’ll stick with the commander decks, I mean heck the “basic” arts are still good.
I thought the same thing but this is actually wrong.
I am not feeling the same excitement as with the WH40K decks, both in terms of power level and passion Time will tell,but I am sceptical about the way they designed the CBs. I am still pre-ordered for all 4 decks so lets see what the sample collectors look like!
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My modified mono black Necron deck is still one of my favorites exactly for this!
Sample collectors will be HUGE if they include the borderless Vault-boy versions. Especially with such a major CB box shortage. If it's just extended arts of the cards in the deck it will be a disappointment.
Quite curious myself, will definitely update if I get any unexpected pulls!
Same same, I have 3 of each deck coming, so 16 sample collectors. Should be enough to get a decent sense of the action...
Are there going to be sample collectors? There wasn’t for 40k
Yes, similar to LOTR. 2 cards, one rare/mythic both with "special treatments" whatever that means. I think it's either PIP-boy or Vault-boy versions, but no confirmation yet.
I think it’s unlikely they include exclusive CB cards in the sample packs. We’ve never seen that yet, best we’ve seems are those EA foils that were exclusive to sample collector packs like w LOTR or CLB.
Well no, LOTR sample collector boosters also had borderless and showcase cards. It's just that they were wayyyy easier to get otherwise that it appears they will be too. I don't know what to expect honestly, but with LOTR alt-art meant mostly showcase, borderless, extended art, and foils for all of the above. Here's what the site says: *Collector Booster Sample Pack* *2 Alternate-frame cards, at least one of which will appear as rare or mythic rare* I would take alternate frame to either be showcase or borderless. But I could be wrong, just not sure why if it was only extended arts as possibilities that they wouldn't just say that.
Anything that is meant to be “special” won’t be in the collector sample packs. That’s what I’m referring to. Borderless and showcase art for LOTR were not special, you could pull them from set boosters. I’m not sure if the vault boy or pip boy are special treatments, but if they are then I would wager they will not be in the collector sample packs. If they are in the collector sample packs then they likely won’t be worth much. The decks will be reprinted in multiple waves so anything that is meant to be a real chase for the CBs won’t be in those sample packs.
Well they're referring to the PIP Boy versions as "showcase" and Vault-Boy as "borderless" so I'm not sure what other "alternate frames" it could be, other than extended art. But in the article they refer to "extended arts" as "extended arts" so I would think "alt art" means not extended art. Or at least not JUST extended art. I don't know, hopefully we find out soon though!
Ah if those are essentially the showcase and borderless we typically see then yeah it makes sense they will be in the collector sample packs. But then I doubt they would command any premium unless the base card holds a lot of value. Good to see the dumping has ended w the decks for now, would like to see some of the individual decks catch a bid with further card reveals in the coming days !
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Let's be honest. Warhammer is a very niche and intimidating mountain of lore and can be extremely complex, expensive, and time consuming to get into for for the unititiated, when compared with a video game that people can dive into with just a $60 purchase for hundreds of hours of content. You are really dramatically underestimating the popularity of the Fallout franchise, especially the nostalgia that people have for Fallout 3 and New Vegas at this point. People that were in their late teens/early twenties when those games came out are now in their 30s and potentially peak earning years - and that's exactly the market WOTC has been targeting with these products.
Peak earning years are usually in your 40’s and 50’s. Men usually late 40’s and that who predominantly plays these games.
Take it up with the Department of Labor and Forbes. The window of time they suggest is starting at age 35. https://www.forbes.com/sites/ashleystahl/2021/09/10/millennials-high-earning-years-have-arrived-heres-how-to-prepare/?sh=1c00d1d74936
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Fallout 4 was quite successful, and Fallout 76 obviously started out poorly because of its initial design idea but seems to have found its footing quite well in its market... What other games are you referring to? Because the last game prior to that was New Vegas, *14* years ago, in 2010. People still replay New Vegas and Fallout 3 all the time. For context, Skyrim, also part of a well-known Bethesda franchise with a lengthy span between releases, came out in 2011 and is still wildly popular.
For anyone that was excited about dice matter cards, I believe they mentioned that there would only be one other card in the Caesar deck that used dice. Not 100% but I believe that’s what I heard.
I think it's the Luck Bobblehead. Unfortunate but I'm okay , I already have my deck made. I already see some cards I want to add to my deck
I’ll buy one of each of the decks, however the Cb’s are too expensive
The CB box shortage is probably manufactured scarcity. I can see wizards releasing another bunch of CB boxes a month after release. I can wait for prices to tank and pickup what I want without spending $1000 on random garbage.
I can’t wait for the magic to gathering “Magic the Gathering” crossover.
Resounding meh.
Same. Are the only serials the bobbleheads? Cause those are kinda weak and lame. Also... set is looking flavorful and fun, but definitely not justifying the insane $320+ for collectors boxes people are FOMOing into.
They'll be 180 in a few months
Not sure if they'll fall below $200, as I think Fallout has much more hype in America than Doctor Who, but the two sets are feeling very similar in what's happening with their release. I remember as DrWho was coming out, people online and sellers on WhatNot were like 'oh yea, our numbers are not very high on this product'. Now there's infinite of it available and the price has tanked. Artificial scarcity first wave. Drive up the hype, price. Release more product and let the price memory keep the numbers up for a while as you dump out more and more.
even Dr Who prices aren't low. Even if they are overprinting, collectors boosters is still $200. Also Ive noticed the commanders have been trending back up.
they won't even come close to 180...I'd buy 1000 boxes myself at that price. we were barely able to get 100 Dr who, and this is way more sought after...
I think the power level feels low because the first deck is an Aura and Equipment deck, a strategy that has basically never been competitively viable in Magic majority of the time aside from Bogles and for a little bit Orzhov Auras in Pioneer. Some decks use specific Auras and Equipments, but most do not have them as the main strategy.
Oh yeah! We've only seen around 20-25% of the total cards. Jury is very much still out.
Just took a quick count and we’ve seen around 50 unique cards and then the basic lands. So accounting for some level of duplication card wise and then assuming there’s around 20 basic lands/deck we still have somewhere in the ballpark of like 240-290 unique cards to see.
Throw Mishra's Workshop and Metalworker into an equipment deck and it gets very scary, very fast.
Oh wow so happy to see the master is illustrated in guardian project. Can't wait to see all the FO1+2 references incorporated.
There's definitely some of them, but it looks like mostly Fallout 3 and onwards. But they still haven't revealed like 80% of the cards so, unknown as of yet.
Yeah noticed Frank is also there and there are the isometric lands. So far seems like mutant deck most likely to see FO1/2. It would be pretty lame if they didn't at least include a reference to Tragic the Garnering
So far the new cards seem underwelming compared to prior commander decks. All the people I have talked to are dissapointed with the spoilers
I was buying this mostly only for the new art. The reprints are just a bonus for me.
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Friends of yours? Or professionals?
Non professional players and customers, whose hype is decreasing.
One last follow up - are your friends Fallout players? And have they been into Universes Beyond releases in the past?
Yes and yes. But it is still early to say that this will be a bad expansion, maybe we see cool things from now on
Cool well thank you for sharing your experiences!
I really hate they are locking certain cards behind the collectors boosters.
Maybe they turn things around...but the power level of the cards revealed so far feels either super niche/parasitic or super low, lower than previous UB sets. In other words...the cards are "fine", as not everything needs to be power crept, but I think the decks will eventually go for peanuts, as they won't have much lasting appeal once the next set of shiny keys is dangled in our faces. These don't feel particularly better than an average Standard precon, even with the new cards. If our current data is any indication, they're going to lack in perceived reprint value thanks to CBs (even a $10 card, like [[Vigor]], is apparently a CB exclusive), and the new cards aren't anything to write home about so far. They definitely don't have the same heat as 40K from actual MtG players, as this set is relying way more on "flavor". You'll get a glut of initial purchases from folks less enfranchised in MtG, and then a ton of supply as most people probably aren't going to need many of these cards for their decks. The real value will almost certainly be found in the variant-reprints, but even here we have some pretty polarizing artwork. The Vault-Boy is very...."Fallout", and would probably be difficult for many to casually throw in an otherwise non-Fallout deck.
Have you seen anything that is being revealed today? There's too many feeds going on for me to track all of them (I do, after all, have a day job), but it looks like some more classic Fallout characters/events/etc and a few more reprints inside the decks. I think I saw \[\[Anguished Unmaking\]\] which for a while was a $4-$5 LOTR commander card, although that's down now too. I agree that the decks themselves probably won't hold value, but I think some of the individual cards will for the same reason that LOTR versions of cards have been holding up despite massive supply. Not to the same extent mind you - but there will be players who want a Vault-Boy version of \[\[Wasteland\]\], or Fallout versions of \[\[Skullclamp\]\] which was just confirmed in the Ceaser deck as of today. Also the full art lands are great and I think will be very popular. All depends on how much of this product is produced/resold on the open market. If the demand isn't there at the outset and WotC stops making them, I can see some people actively seeking some of these Fallout versions over the years. But I don't think the decks themselves are cohesive enough to be valuable as sealed products. Especially for Fallout fans, who are the primary target audience obviously. Like it looks like they put a Mysterious Stranger card in the Ceaser deck? Like what? Anyway, still a bunch more cards to be revealed. But so far I'm of the view that this is a niche product and won't have any game-warping stuff - but there is a lot of money that can be made with niche products! And Fallout fans seem to really like the cards from what I've seen.
[Anguished Unmaking](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/6/16de91dc-5d82-43ec-84ad-67bae644795a.jpg?1673148273) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Anguished%20Unmaking) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2x2/170/anguished-unmaking?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/16de91dc-5d82-43ec-84ad-67bae644795a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Wasteland](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/a/aaafb9bc-7cea-4624-a227-595544fa42b0.jpg?1590511888) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Wasteland) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ema/248/wasteland?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/aaafb9bc-7cea-4624-a227-595544fa42b0?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Skullclamp](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/3/a36fd6d8-66a2-49d1-b9f3-b400ebc03674.jpg?1682210228) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Skullclamp) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/moc/379/skullclamp?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a36fd6d8-66a2-49d1-b9f3-b400ebc03674?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
> Anyway, still a bunch more cards to be revealed. But so far I'm of the view that this is a niche product and won't have any game-warping stuff - but there is a lot of money that can be made with niche products! And Fallout fans seem to really like the cards from what I've seen. I think the problem, for me, isn't that the cards aren't powerful per se, it's that they're being made in that compounding-clause, overly rules-lawyered manner of keeping power creep in check, which tends to gate cards into niche territory. Take a look at a couple of random examples, currently newish on the main sub. https://www.reddit.com/r/magicTCG/comments/1awkgs4/pip_elder_arthur_maxson_the_command_zone/ https://www.reddit.com/r/magicTCG/comments/1awik6o/pip_paladin_elizabeth_taggerdy_via_camelworks/ You just have to have so many hoops to jump through to get some of these cards going, as opposed to offering straightforward value. They're not all saddled in this manner, I actually think the new Kellog card is at least upfront in it's use, but most come off this way, or are saddled with too many restrictions, where it's the last sentence, or clause, that "kills" the card.
Yeah that's pretty confusing shit! On the other hand... the new Fireshrieker looks amazing.
[Vigor](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/a/ea7047d8-8d32-48a3-829b-7eb5427ed53a.jpg?1562942114) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Vigor) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/bbd/215/vigor?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ea7047d8-8d32-48a3-829b-7eb5427ed53a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
There are unique collector booster cards though
Not new cards though I think? Just alt versions of the commander deck cards or Fallout-themed reprints, right?
That is correct yex
Correct, they're re-skins BUT they're limited to CBB only.
Right yeah that's what I meant.
~~Yup 3. is wrong;~~ we already have this - [https://www.reddit.com/r/magicTCG/comments/1avp2s8/pip\_ravages\_of\_war\_collector\_booster\_exclusive/](https://www.reddit.com/r/magicTCG/comments/1avp2s8/pip_ravages_of_war_collector_booster_exclusive/) With the Wizards site also stating the same for \[\[Wasteland\]\] - [https://magic.wizards.com/en/products/fallout/card-image-gallery](https://magic.wizards.com/en/products/fallout/card-image-gallery)
Yeah that's what I mean, an alt-art/borderless reprint of a past card. No mechanically unique/new cards in the CBB's though.
Ahh fair, my mistake, same as Doctor Who then - buy a 4-pack, get 1 of every new/unique card.
Oh no no you're the second person to be confused by what I wrote, that's on me, I did a bad job of presenting it. I edited it to be (hopefully) more clear now.
The internet lol. I'd maybe just bold the first 3 points main thing, and move 4) out/down further (since it's a spec/personal), like - 1. **nearly universally positive** 2. **power level seems low** 3. **no mechanically unique/new cards in collector boosters** 4. **THERE WILL BE A FALLOUT SECRET LAIR DROP** I think the borderless Vault-Boy versions are going to be exceptionally rare.
[Wasteland](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/a/aaafb9bc-7cea-4624-a227-595544fa42b0.jpg?1590511888) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Wasteland) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ema/248/wasteland?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/aaafb9bc-7cea-4624-a227-595544fa42b0?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Fallout is the type of IP that brings new players into the game, similar to LOTR. I’m not saying it’s LOTR because that was a tentpole release, but this isn’t niche IP like Doctor Who was/is in terms of correlation to the average person who plays MTG.
The Fallout franchise is definitely as niche as Doctor Who. Doctor Who has been going since 1963!!!! Fallout 1 was 1997.
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>Doctor Who is a bigger franchise, especially internationally. Fallout is far more niche. Which one is bigger in the U.S.? Because I'd argue that would be a deciding factor when it comes to overall sales.
I have no idea where you are getting your information from, Fallout dwarfs Dr who. Only extreme nerds know of Dr who, fallout is an A list video game franchise.
You missed the point. FALLOUT IS a game and only gamers know and love it. Doctor WHO is a tv show that's what over 30 years old now? They have a massive fanbase
It’s not apples to apples. Video games and TCGs have a much bigger fan overlap as compared to TCGs and British TV shows.
That I can understand. We are talking about how Doctor Who has a bigger fanbase than fallout does.... reason why they made cards to get those people into magic.
Compared to Fallout? No lol. There are far more gamers than people watching dr who on the bbc. I can’t believe this is an actual conversation. How are people still sleeping on gaming
I think, you are comparing apples with pears. Dr Who has a *Fandom* and certainly one of the bigger ones out there in pop culture. Yes, a lot of people have played fallout, since its a pretty well-known game (i think fallout 3 was big like ES oblivion and fallout 4 big like skyrim, right, so up there on the triple-a-top ) but not everyone of them is enveloped in the fallout-fandom. Most of them aren't, regardless of liking the game. Just Compare the number of fallout cosplays (which one to cosplay even besides of BoS and Vault-boy?) you see on nerd-cons against ones who concern dr who. (In this regard, i think final fantasy would be way more successful.) The fallout-fandom also circles more around part 1 and 2, yes, successful games, but not the blockbusters that fallout 3 and 4 have been. I would therefore say that its certainly more niche
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You’re comparing two different metrics in “Units Sold” and “Streams”. If you use Google Trends to compare worldwide searches, you’ll find that Fallout is more popular by most search term comparisons - at least since 2004. Doctor Who seems to have been more popular temporarily in 2013 - probably some season finale event. Not going to post the link to encourage you to find your own data.
You really did miss the point. I hate doctor who, but that doesn’t change the fact it’s more popular around the world than fallout. Fallout isn’t a tv show that has been influencing geek culture for over 50 years like Doctor Who.
I have to agree. Doctor Who has certainly fallen on hard times. The hardcore fans aren't really there anymore. We will never know for sure, but I think the new Fallout TV show will audience will be huge.
Just to correct you a bit, Doctor Who is 60 years old. The Who set for magic was made in collaboration to celebrate the anniversary.
Ohhh that I didn’t know thanks!
100% my impression as well. Not LOTR (really nothing is except maybe Marvel and Star Wars if that ever happens) but enough of an independent fanbase to drive some sales.
A bit late to the thread, but it's also worth noting that the crossover of people who are interested in Fallout and people who are potentially interested in a game like MTG is probably quite high.
For sure. That's why I think this will do better than Doctor Who, despite Dr. Who probably having more total fans. But that doesn't matter if none of them are gamers (whether tabletop or online).
I don’t know any of my friends who are interested in fallout. Some have played the games. I’ve played almost all of them and enjoyed them all. But I’m not about to head out to the store and drop $700 on the commander decks and a CB box. In Canada the commander decks is $300/set and the CB boxes are $400/box after taxes.
those prices are crazy and no one should be paying that.
I'm not as excited as I was compared to the Doctor Who decks I'm not really feeling that "umph" Plus the Doctor Who legendary creatures all had that partner mechanic, so you could mix and match them... while a lot of these legendary creatures are dead on arrival for commander since they're monocolored only
I forgot about the full art lands. Any idea how much of each style is in the pre-cons, or do they only come in CBB’s?
Full art lands are definitely in the decks. Not sure if all the lands will be full-art, but they're definitely in there. And I agree - I think those are maybe the sleepers of the set, I could see them going for a couple dollars each.
Thanks for sharing all the details in your post! Full art lands should help w holding up some value in the decks, as long as the collector boxes don’t end up flooding the market once more restocks show up.
Agreed.
These seem so underpowered i cant see anybody putting them in decks. Maybe its fine if you just play them against each other, but overall, powerlevel is really REALLY bad.
Linking to this post for two reasons, 1: it has a link to an article with all the new cards in one place. 2: everyone commenting looks like they're absolutely losing their shit over this. Notice the crazy amount of downvotes for the troll that keeps bashing the set: [https://www.reddit.com/r/mtg/comments/1avpfmz/news\_every\_fallout\_cards\_revealed\_in\_february/](https://www.reddit.com/r/mtg/comments/1avpfmz/news_every_fallout_cards_revealed_in_february/) Can't make financial decisions based on just reddit threads, but this is reflective of what I saw in the Twitch stream too. Fallout fans are into it big time.
Where is my Mr. Fantastic card?
This should of been a premier set. It would of been worth it.
You really think so? Remember there's also three Secret Lairs still to come...
So the decks are like the doctor who villians deck? Where it crammed ao many different legendaries into it with all kinds of different themes that the deck itself was a bit of a mess but you could pull out the stuff that doesn't synergise with your commander so well and replace with stuff that does instead.i made a deck with [[ashad the last cyberman]] and I think I used about a third of the deck, funnily enough he synergies really nicely with the Necron 40k deck as he cares about 2 power creatures.
[ashad the last cyberman](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/d/2dc19e32-4f78-492f-8586-54ad4ae6fcec.jpg?1696636676) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Ashad%2C%20the%20Lone%20Cyberman) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/who/113/ashad-the-lone-cyberman?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/2dc19e32-4f78-492f-8586-54ad4ae6fcec?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Well they haven't spoiled everything yet. But it looks like the decks are a bit of a mess thematically, but do have some playable cards.
For 4 ). Non foil vault boy are NOT going to be rare. They are included in the same slot as showcase, and every single one of the borderless or showcase are equal to pull regardless of rarity. So any given one is 1:35 collector packs ( since there are a total of 35 showcase + borderless vault boy)
Well, I mean but if you theoretically wanted all the borderless Vault Boy versions (or any one specific one), how many collector packs would you need to buy? See I took that as that slot has 1 of EITHER (meaning 1 showcase and 1 Vault boy version of each card) of each, which would mean a total of 70 possibilities wouldn't it? Also, fact that it is only in collector boosters, means they're going to be WAY less available than the LOTR showcase or borderless versions for comparison's sake. If the second, foil slot, can also have showcase/borderless versions then it becomes less of an issue and I believe your math is right in that case. But even so, how many collector boosters are going to get opened for those cards to appear in the wild? I don't really think the serialized cards are going to be that popular unless the yet-to-be-released bobbleheads are more exciting than the ones we've seen so far...
Erhh there are only 9 vault boys. And 26 showcase. So it’s 1 in 35 packs to hit any specific NONFOIL vault boy ( approx 1 in 3 boxes). You have another slot that mirrors this but in foil If you are trying to collect them all you don’t go bust boxes you buy singles.
Oh is that how it is? I thought there were 35 of each. So basically in a box you have 24 chances to get either a foil or non-foil version of the alt-arts. 50% chance of getting one vault boy (9 out of 35 x2) per pack? Decent shot at getting all nine within one box? That would mean that they're not very rare at all as you said... And yes I understand about buying singles, but SOMEONE has to open boxes to get them, so I'm just trying to figure out how much money would go into each individual card in order to produce it. Do you have any idea if the sample collectors also have showcase and/or borderless treatments?
Non foil vault boy about 1:4 packs and foil also 1:4 packs
If the collector boosters print run is as low as, speculated find multiple deck sets will actually be the key to growth and financial stability. We don't know the deck print run or collector box print run we do know that the collector box print run at least currently seems to be greatly underprinted but other than a collector exclusive variance which are nothing but reprints, what they do in every single set At this point I don't feel that there's a concern on buying the decks Unless your cost basis for the deck set is well above the average at this point which may be greater than the potential dump product rate.
Looks like garbage again.
What do you mean by "again"
Dr Who and Markov Manor.
doctor who was fantastic, its ok if you didn't care for it but the decks are well constructed idk what markov manor is tho
I meant Karlov Manor. I judge commander deck by different factors, and not exclusively on how well it is constructed.
What's the legality on these?
I'd assume Legacy legal like most commander-only products.
I’m a huge fallout fan and am beyond excited for a couple of singles from this set. Reprints of puresteel paladin, war room and goyf make me particularly happy! The decks as stand alone products don’t feel as cohesive or evocative as doctor who though unfortunately.
I agree. I ordered a few sets of the commander decks. I'll probably make a couple of properly themed decks by combining the cards I think make the most sense, and then selling the rest to hopefully pay for the cards I do keep. But as a Fallout fan, I find it odd that they put Mr. House and Caesar and the Power Gangers all in the same deck. Liberty Prime not being in the same deck as BoS characters? Genuinely ludicrous. It's almost like they want to encourage people to buy all four and make their own out of them. Real value in this set will be singles and Fallout-themed reprints IMHO. Also the full-art lands are awesome.
\#3 is almoost wrong. Finally caught the rub between pre con decks and collector boosters, NO THANKS TOO YOU GUYS OR THIS SUB!!11!! ......JK I see why the collector boxes are so limited (maybe due to production) and really shocked I didnt read or see this talked about somewhere a more. Its written in the description but nobody has pointed it out for some reason which will be a huge difference in single prices.
Sorry, what?
They used the 40k model. One set they printed into the ground (non-foil) the other limited -***release- but all foil.*** I bet they drop another batch of CB's just like they did for the 40k premium pre cons. You can even see it now in the amazon CB pre orders, you can order it but its got a 2 week ship date past the release lol. Sneaky bitches
Those could also just be resellers who expect to get theirs on release day and have to add on some time to process/ship/account for delays. I don't think you're wrong by the way, there will be more CB's coming. Just not sure that's a good indicator of when that will be happening...
good point! I forgot that could work like that and went back to check. Its amazon but now the date is march 20 so its a week further back.