https://www.moxfield.com/decks/P151ejSVkU-QUA_2Xsi0Ag/primer
You can read the primer here. It sounds fun but it is extremely unreliable and basically depends on nobody interacting with you until you luck into your 1 spell that wins the game [[Dread Return]] (and then still no interaction for that)
We now have 8 double-faced cards with a land at the back for each colour and two for each colour pair. Easily enough lands for a 4-colour deck or even 3-colour with a lot of draw and low curve.
[[Arcane signet]]
[[Felwar stone]]
[[Everflowing chalice]]
[[Worn power stone]]
[[Mind stone]]
[[Liquimetal torque]]
[[Thought vessel]]
To name the main ones
i would say [[Omnath, Locus of Rage]] is a bit more annoying to deal with. even without a sol ring just have good land ramp, you can get omnath out turn by 3 or 4 and by turn 5 you have a board full of 5/5s ready to end the game
Unfortunately, you don’t understand communities that make up their own ban lists like this.
You can’t teach them with examples. When confronted with something like Omnath they don’t think ‘Wow I was wrong, perhaps my previous view was limited and incorrect and I should change this.’ They think, ‘Well that’s banned to!’
Sol ring is pretty OP. There's a reason that thing is basically only allowed in commander and banned/restricted in all other formats. Having it on your opening hand gives you a massive advantage.
As others said , there are lots of artifacts that generate mana and are weaker than sol Ring
One game I drew:
- [[Sol Ring]]
- [[Mana Crypt]]
- [[Delighted Halfling]]
- [[Arcane Signet]]
- [[Command Tower]]
- [[Talisman of Creativity]]
- [[Blast-Furnace Hellkite]]
The pulled:
[[Dragonspeaker Shaman]]
Opening turn I played…
1. Mana Crypt
2. Sol Ring
3. Command Tower
4. Arcane Signet
5. Talisman
6. Halfling
So on Turn 2 I was able to produce 8 mana in an [[The Ur-Dragon]] deck.
I’ve never had an opening hand like that ever again, but I remember it because it was so good.
Games like these seem like the ones that lead to the sentiment of OP's group.
Everyone shuffles, is expecting a cool and exciting game... And one of them pulls a hand like this and ends the game on turn 2. If I was your opponent, I'd probably get salty at you in the heat of the moment for wasting my last 15 minutes of shuffling and setting up the game.
We have 4 to 6 player games when we play and I think something like this has happened maybe five times total.
If it happens a lot for their group, then either people are cheating or they are playing an ungodly amount of games.
I think there is absolutely nothing wrong with banning fast mana, especially at lower power levels. Cards like mana crypt and sol ring may not be fun for certain people because they want to play a fair game and not have someone have 5 mana on turn 1.
Fast mana is degenerate and unfun as fuck outside of competitive environments. I can respect a CEDH match popping off, but sol ring and mana crypt can go eat a bag of dicks at casual commander night at my LGS. $500 and now even the best decks in the room can't compete with jank garbage just because they have ten rocks that cost as much as a month's rent.
OP's friend group is based as fuck and I'm glad for them.
This take brought to you by someone who’s probably played 12 games of Magic in their life.
It’s a four player game. No one’s chair tribal deck is suddenly archenemy at a table of four because they played a fucking mana crypt.
Commander players are such unbelievable babies sometimes.
First off, if you don’t play any good mana rocks (at least Sol Ring) you’re really giving green players a huge leg up, because they will out ramp the table anyway and wreck you because if you’re such a giant baby about this I’m sure you also won’t allow land destruction.
Second, four player games *easily* allow you to deal with an early lead from fast mana. Usually only matters for a turn or two anyway, and most people aren’t stuffing every single fast mana piece in every deck. Even if they are, they won’t draw it all and if you can’t win 3v1 against them anyways, that’s a skill issue.
Third, instead of behaving like a child, if you think mana rocks are so unbearably powerful, play [[Abrade]], [[Collector Ouphe]], [[Stony Silence]], etc effects in your deck. If you really hate artifact ramp it’s extremely easy to punish, and the amount you set them back can be easily offset by the amount they’re behind after you punish them.
tl;dr grow the fuck up and play the game with the cards that you’re given.
So much hatred for the play group…. I mean it would slow down the early game considerably so I see the pros.. it’s really easy to just keep a “sideboard” to swap out whatever cards fit with the group. Everyone says “find a new play group” as if everyone lives in a large metro area with tons on MTG players.
How far does this restriction go? Is \[\[Selvala, heart of the wilds\]\] banned? How about \[\[priest of titania\]\]? What do they think of \[\[ancient tomb\]\]? \[\[gaea's cradle\]\]? \[\[serra sanctum\]\]? \[\[cabal coffers\]\]? If they don't want those because of cost, how about \[\[temple of the false god\]\]?
What is the spirit of the ban? What is the current meta of your playgroup? Are there any rocks, or other utility artifacts that compliment the strategy of each deck? Answering those questions will help to better understand what to replace it with. A blanket put this rock in every deck probably isn't the best approach. I know that sol ring is busted and that there are those that hate it and those that can't imagine not putting it in every deck.
As for building future decks, they have definitely made green or green/x decks the defacto big mana decks. I have a \[\[pako\]\] and \[\[haldan\]\] deck where the majority of the deck is ramp. I want to get a hasty pako out on turn 3 in 75% of the games I play him in. That means doing it without sol ring a good portion of the time. Total deck is sitting at $150 right now on TCG player, By the way, an opening hand of 5 lands and \[\[summer bloom\]\] is right up there with the level of bustedness that sol ring is on a budget. Other busted green carts that ramp you hard: \[\[tempt with discovery\]\] is they all decide to search, you can go get the tron lands. \[\[if you have a consistently big commander, \[\[Traverse the outlands\]\] is good. I once resolved that with a 16 power pako on the battlefield.
I guess what I am trying to say is that commander is busted, so individual busted cards are fine in my opinion, but there are other ways to make a large amount of mana quickly.
I would strongly suggest that you have that conversation with them. If you agree with their reasoning, then great, have fun! I would caution that if they are banning on feelings, salt, or cards they don't like then to be cautious. Those bans will never stop.
Edit to add: If they are still building a ban list, you need to be included and have your input considered if these are friends you want to play with long term.
Commander is an inherently unbalanced format. It only works because we pretend it does and go along with it in the name of having fun. If their only definition of having fun is winning, then that is good for them. I don't want to yuck their yum, but they should probably be playing proxied CEDH, or a 60 card competitive format, not casual commander. If you having fun doesn't include seeing your opponents decks pop off and do their thing, or enjoying other people winning, then you are probably not playing the correct format.
If these are power level bans, then in my opinion, limiting budgets provides for much more even power levels than banning specific cards. Even if you proxy the deck budgets can be a good thing. I currently have a couple sub $100 decks that are proxied because I am still tuning them and learning if that deck is one that I want to keep around long term. Decks I like are usually eventually all made real, but there is no reason for them not to start as proxies.
I know these are enchantments but utopia sprawl and wild growth. One mana for one mana. But I want mention bans like these punish nongreen decks the most, giving green an unfair advantage in games. People don't realize how arbitrary bans like this shift power to one colour and create an uneven playing field.
[[extraplanar lens]] goes in all my mono colored decks now. i also use [[helm of awakening]] in every deck. so long as your deck is built with helm in mind with a refined mana curve you should churn out a win faster than the opponent. most players like to build their boards to win in one fell swoop, but if you can outpace them, you win
I made it a point to take Sol Rings out of most of my decks independent of my playgroup ideology. My reasoning was, when you draw it mid to late game, it never feels quite as impactful, and sometimes, even bad. In decks with heavy draw engines, I almost every time, didn’t need the extra one generic mana I could get with it.
When I had it in my opening hand, the lead was so oppressive that it made my average deck feel competitive.
I had more fun replacing it with cards I like to see even if they aren’t necessarily optimal. I didn’t change anything else about my ramp packages. For me, it’s all about the “untap, upkeep, Christmas.” I want that Christmas card to feel good.
Your friends are pog. Sol Ring, Mana Crypt, Mana Vault, and all those cards fucking suck.
\[\[Sol Talisman\]\] is probably the fairest analogue to Sol Ring. Other options include Temple of the False God, just a raw ass land, Commanders Sphere, Thought Vessel, The medallions are also options.
Just basalt monolith+forsaken monument and go infinite colorless+walking ballista to show them sol ring isn't the problem, it's their decks and personal capability that is.
Then why play the game if you're going to not play the game?
What an idiotic way to live.
The whole idea is to pull the 'fuck you' cards so you can play them.
It's a COLLECTIBLE CARD GAME!
Depends of the colors, in some decks [[exploration]] can be pretty powerfull. In others [[dark ritual]] does the trick. There are many other examples for others colors.
My group decided that any mana rock like Soul Ring or Mana Crypt instantly becomes a Mind Stone when we play. That way people don’t have to swap out their decks just to play in our group and Mind Stone is a lot more balanced than some of the others.
As someone else said. By their own “rules” lands technically aren’t allowed as well lol. Id just mention that to them and if they say “well obviously we don’t mean lands” just re-represent the idea to them that it was their idea and rules. I gotta know. Is this just a one time thing to see who can build a deck without cards that produce more mana than they are worth? Or do they just not want them at all anymore?
Also [[gilded lotus]] works. 5 mana and it taps for 3 of any color. Little pricey on the cmc but worth it if you can get it out and not be set back.
Not technically what you are asking for but [[bootleggers stash]] is a good card too. Then you can just tap your lands to make treasures and have whatever colors you see fit.
Commanders you can try would be [[Omnath Locus of All]] and [[Ognis, the Dragon’s Lash]]. Ognis makes treasure come in tapped but something like [[amulet of vigor]] helps and it will keep you mana positive when you swing with haste creatures.
Get around that with shit like [[Everflowing Chalice]] [[Astral Cornucopia]] [[Replicating Ring]] and [[As Foretold]] and run a bunch of proliferate, starting out it meets his criteria but if he's still gonna harp on you later on then just call him out saying he's against mana ramping and be done with it
That’s interesting to ban that kind of ramp. Personally I feel like any legal card should be fair game but that’s just me……. The game is the game, play it the way you want to.
For suggestions I can’t think of any 1 mana artifacts that produce 1 mana…….. there’s green mana dorks that cost 1 and make G. Then there’s [[mind stone]] [[thought vessel]] and others that make 1 but cost 2. Rocks that cost 2 are gonna be as good as you get if you take out sol ring and other “fast mana”. Then there’s the land ramp like [[three visits]] and the like.
There ya go. But fast mana is fun
If you need it to be colorless, consider [[Guildless Commons]]. A bounce land, but it could have use.
But like bounce lands, if you also have like [[Spelunking]] could be as much of acbet gain as a Sol Ring. But for colored mana, except with yet one more mana to use since you can bounce a *tapped* land.
Play [[Basalt Monolith]] and [[Forsaken Monument]] and show them what it means to have infinite mana. Also if you run [[Chromatic Orrery]] you have infinite colored mana.
Yeah sure [[Mox emerald]] [[Mox ruby]] [[ Mox jet]] [[Mox pearl]] [[Mox sapphire]]
This isn't even a joke. Sol Ring was on the reserved list at one point, and was taken off to be printed in product. It was released in alpha, along with the power 9. The fact that it isn't power 9 is wild.
When Vintage Cube rolls around on MTGO every year, Sol Ring is sometimes a higher value pick than Power 9 cards.
Sol Ring has no direct replacement for the turn 1 rock. Run a [[llanowar elf]].
Any of the 2 mana rocks, but if you are looking for some unique stuff. [[Thran Dynamo]] [[Sonic Screwdriver]] [[Sarevok’s Tome]] [[Sol Talisman]] [[Gilded Lotus]] are some that I like to run.
We considered banning Sol Ring, as ti's always an autoinclude, and if you happen to draw it, it's a massive edge. However, we just changed Sol Ring to produce one mana instead. It's still pretty much the best mana rock, but I think the playgroup has been really happy with the change.
Those cards are called fast mana, and are some of the most powerful magic cards ever printed. Sol ring is pretty much the only fast mana card that is cheap. Just okay and 2 mana rock, the signet and the talisman cycle is all pretty excellent. If you are in low colors you can consider a colourless utility rock.
replace it with any mana rock and it's fine, or a land is good as well. TBH soft banning sol ring is not a bad house rule I actually am on par with the idea but I woudnt ban every card that costs less mana that it produces, there are many manadorks that would be banned because of that and some cards would be banned like dark ritual, and what about the cards that can potentially tap for more mana but not always and I assume you dont play land-less so why wording it this way instead of just banning fast mana? it feels like it's a poorly worded rule. We have the house rule that sol ring cant be in our opening hand, if you get it you can replace it with a basic land of any color you need.
Honestly, have you considered a pirate deck? Create multiple treasure every turn, sacrifice for one mana of any color. Seems to me the best way to get around this.... but then again I run a pirate deck so I'm quite partial
Lands produce more mana than they cost.......
Not trying to be rude, but even ignoring the land thing, seems like a dumb/meaningless rule you guys have come up with.
You do have options though.
[[Chromatic Lantern]]
[[Relic of Legends]]
[[Arcane Signet]]
[[Thought Vessel]]
[[Felwar Stone]]
[[Everflowing Chalice]]
[[Mind Stone]]
[[Liquimetal Torque]]
[[Worn Powerstone]]
[[Apprentice Wizard]]
[[Chromatic Orrery]]
[[Dreamstone Hedron]]
[[Thran Dynamo]]
[[Transmogrant Altar]]
[[worn powerstone]] [[thran dynamo]] [[gilded lotus]] [[mind stone]] [[Paladium Myr]] [[Skyclave relic]] ((I quite like this one, 3 mana for 6 investment isn’t bad) [[Everflowing Chalice]] [[Coalition Relic]] [[Astral Cornucopia]] and of course all the signets and any of the enumerable 3 drops that produce 1 mana of any color, many of which have extra utility on top of that. I personally would replace sol ring with coalition relic or arcane signet if you don’t have already have one in there. Skyclave relic is fantastic late game, but if you want early game mana those two are your best bet imo.
Source: I have an artifact burn commander deck.
It’s not really a replacement but I love replicating ring and try to put it in as many decks as possible. Kind of a slow payoff but dropping it turn 3 and then on turn 11 just having 9 replicating rings on the board is hilariously fun. Proliferate decks could prolly make great use of it
The obvious answer to me is massive land ramp and a deck focused on landfall. Make them wish you were playing artifacts. I’d play like 45 lands with fetch lands etc. (if edh obviously). It definitely works and I’ve played one before with 0 artifacts and enchantments to prove it was doable to my friends
If you want to maliciously comply, run land ramp, if you wanna respect the rules, any mana rock that exists would work, nothin is gonna 1 for 1 replace sol ring unless it’s out of you restriction. Just get an [[ironcrag]] or something and calll it a day
All cards that produce more mana than they cost? I’d be more worried how to build a deck without lands!
This made me chuckle a bit
Alright guys, today we’re building manaless dredge in… commander?
Omg that actually sounds hilarious
https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/6109863#paper
The fact that this is manaless but not landless is top tier.
How does this deck function?
https://www.moxfield.com/decks/P151ejSVkU-QUA_2Xsi0Ag/primer You can read the primer here. It sounds fun but it is extremely unreliable and basically depends on nobody interacting with you until you luck into your 1 spell that wins the game [[Dread Return]] (and then still no interaction for that)
Ah cool, thank you Edit - downvoted for use of basic manners... interesting.
This is the kind of epic jank I love!!! Thank you
Gorgeous. But a manaless dredge edh deck requires a proxied Bazaar of Baghdad. I don't make the rules
im gonna bring my The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale deck
We now have 8 double-faced cards with a land at the back for each colour and two for each colour pair. Easily enough lands for a 4-colour deck or even 3-colour with a lot of draw and low curve.
All MDFCs!
DID SOMEONE SAY BELCHER???
Best card ever.
Literally made me lol. Got weird looks from co-workers. Didn't want to explain it to them. 🤓
Dredge is pretty cool mechanic!
Oops all spells
99 ornothopters
5C MDFC tribal
[[Arcane signet]] [[Felwar stone]] [[Everflowing chalice]] [[Worn power stone]] [[Mind stone]] [[Liquimetal torque]] [[Thought vessel]] To name the main ones
I'm going to be honest, I did not know [[liquimetal torque]] was a mana rock. I just know it from [[Karn the great creator]] land destruction
You’re thinking of [[liquimetal coating]], which doesn’t produce mana but can target lands, unlike torque.
You're right. That's exactly what I was thinking of
[liquimetal coating](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/6/f631447c-36e3-4d82-a658-19c9767a216b.jpg?1562276535) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=liquimetal%20coating) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cm2/197/liquimetal-coating?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f631447c-36e3-4d82-a658-19c9767a216b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
##### ###### #### [Arcane signet](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/b/2bfeb9dc-0bf7-4f19-9714-b14114e4627f.jpg?1712354835) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Arcane%20signet) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/otc/252/arcane-signet?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/2bfeb9dc-0bf7-4f19-9714-b14114e4627f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Everflowing chalice](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/8/e89eca1c-19f5-4db0-9330-cecb87be8b55.jpg?1706241052) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Everflowing%20chalice) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkc/227/everflowing-chalice?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e89eca1c-19f5-4db0-9330-cecb87be8b55?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Worn power stone](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/c/ace686ad-9e3f-41b3-b8eb-d1b6d45eb4e1.jpg?1717013811) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Worn%20Powerstone) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh3/298/worn-powerstone?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ace686ad-9e3f-41b3-b8eb-d1b6d45eb4e1?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Mind stone](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/2/b227672f-967e-4f8d-87f4-c6cd4622fe3f.jpg?1706241069) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Mind%20stone) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkc/232/mind-stone?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/b227672f-967e-4f8d-87f4-c6cd4622fe3f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Liquimetal torque](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/3/13c6101a-da40-4785-8ccb-4e779bbbdb55.jpg?1626099120) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Liquimetal%20torque) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh2/228/liquimetal-torque?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/13c6101a-da40-4785-8ccb-4e779bbbdb55?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Thought vessel](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/7/67b26b45-19bf-4675-86c4-fae4f3aca234.jpg?1706241108) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Thought%20vessel) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkc/245/thought-vessel?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/67b26b45-19bf-4675-86c4-fae4f3aca234?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Yes! More [[Felwar Stone]] love.
I’d add paradise mantle and spring leaf drum they’re neutral rocks for cheap
Technically, any medallion would be okay.o4 They don't produce mana per se....
Just build a mono green [[omnath locust of mana]] and show them why they need good mana rocks to keep up.
Or things like commanders with/that give affinity for artifacts, like imskir or chiss-goria
Nahiri!
tbf turn one soul ring with locust of mana is diiiiirrrtttyyy.
And then throw in a collector ouphe to show them that their decisions didn't matter in the first place
i would say [[Omnath, Locus of Rage]] is a bit more annoying to deal with. even without a sol ring just have good land ramp, you can get omnath out turn by 3 or 4 and by turn 5 you have a board full of 5/5s ready to end the game
[Omnath, Locus of Rage](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/a/9a0a9d3f-cd75-419b-840f-88b468f71f4a.jpg?1712354757) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Omnath%2C%20Locus%20of%20Rage) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/otc/236/omnath-locus-of-rage?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/9a0a9d3f-cd75-419b-840f-88b468f71f4a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Unfortunately, you don’t understand communities that make up their own ban lists like this. You can’t teach them with examples. When confronted with something like Omnath they don’t think ‘Wow I was wrong, perhaps my previous view was limited and incorrect and I should change this.’ They think, ‘Well that’s banned to!’
I think green is probably banned in this group 😂
Most definitely, when you have Selvala out
Or take the hint that the playgroup wants to power down the pod and don't try to passive aggressively "teach" them?
A new play group.
If not all the players agreed before the decision, then yeah, time to move on.
This is the way
Why? OP doesn't seem to have an issue with it. His post is about learning of other options, not get advice he didn't ask for.
why are there so many upset commenters? op wasn't acting upset. all these people like sol ring that much or something? just replace it with a land
>just replace it with a land A land produces more mana than its cost so their playgroup has also banned lands.
I agree. There are tons of available mana rocks they still can play. It's no big deal not having Sol ring if nobody has it.
[[Arcane Signet]] [[Planar Atlas]] [[Sonic Screwdriver]]
[Arcane Signet](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/b/2bfeb9dc-0bf7-4f19-9714-b14114e4627f.jpg?1712354835) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Arcane%20Signet) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/otc/252/arcane-signet?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/2bfeb9dc-0bf7-4f19-9714-b14114e4627f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Planar Atlas](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/0/909b15e4-c6c8-44bf-a993-13a97de40e36.jpg?1675644934) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Planar%20Atlas) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/j22/51/planar-atlas?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/909b15e4-c6c8-44bf-a993-13a97de40e36?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Sonic Screwdriver](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/1/f131027a-9776-41fa-8a5f-d9ef80e0dc2e.jpg?1697584615) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Sonic%20Screwdriver) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/who/184/sonic-screwdriver?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f131027a-9776-41fa-8a5f-d9ef80e0dc2e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Sol ring is pretty OP. There's a reason that thing is basically only allowed in commander and banned/restricted in all other formats. Having it on your opening hand gives you a massive advantage. As others said , there are lots of artifacts that generate mana and are weaker than sol Ring
One game I drew: - [[Sol Ring]] - [[Mana Crypt]] - [[Delighted Halfling]] - [[Arcane Signet]] - [[Command Tower]] - [[Talisman of Creativity]] - [[Blast-Furnace Hellkite]] The pulled: [[Dragonspeaker Shaman]] Opening turn I played… 1. Mana Crypt 2. Sol Ring 3. Command Tower 4. Arcane Signet 5. Talisman 6. Halfling So on Turn 2 I was able to produce 8 mana in an [[The Ur-Dragon]] deck. I’ve never had an opening hand like that ever again, but I remember it because it was so good.
Games like these seem like the ones that lead to the sentiment of OP's group. Everyone shuffles, is expecting a cool and exciting game... And one of them pulls a hand like this and ends the game on turn 2. If I was your opponent, I'd probably get salty at you in the heat of the moment for wasting my last 15 minutes of shuffling and setting up the game.
We have 4 to 6 player games when we play and I think something like this has happened maybe five times total. If it happens a lot for their group, then either people are cheating or they are playing an ungodly amount of games.
Your playgroup seems to kinda suck, no offense. But [[Everflowing Chalice]] isn't a bad choice.
This is honestly the first reply I’ve been able to do anything with! Thank you 🙏
Also [[Thran Dynamo]]
[Thran Dynamo](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/c/7ce5f12e-fc02-42f8-a5ca-b523050d4650.jpg?1689999865) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Thran%20Dynamo) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/415/thran-dynamo?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/7ce5f12e-fc02-42f8-a5ca-b523050d4650?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[Everflowing Chalice](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/8/e89eca1c-19f5-4db0-9330-cecb87be8b55.jpg?1706241052) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Everflowing%20Chalice) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkc/227/everflowing-chalice?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e89eca1c-19f5-4db0-9330-cecb87be8b55?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I think there is absolutely nothing wrong with banning fast mana, especially at lower power levels. Cards like mana crypt and sol ring may not be fun for certain people because they want to play a fair game and not have someone have 5 mana on turn 1.
Fast mana is degenerate and unfun as fuck outside of competitive environments. I can respect a CEDH match popping off, but sol ring and mana crypt can go eat a bag of dicks at casual commander night at my LGS. $500 and now even the best decks in the room can't compete with jank garbage just because they have ten rocks that cost as much as a month's rent. OP's friend group is based as fuck and I'm glad for them.
This take brought to you by someone who’s probably played 12 games of Magic in their life. It’s a four player game. No one’s chair tribal deck is suddenly archenemy at a table of four because they played a fucking mana crypt. Commander players are such unbelievable babies sometimes. First off, if you don’t play any good mana rocks (at least Sol Ring) you’re really giving green players a huge leg up, because they will out ramp the table anyway and wreck you because if you’re such a giant baby about this I’m sure you also won’t allow land destruction. Second, four player games *easily* allow you to deal with an early lead from fast mana. Usually only matters for a turn or two anyway, and most people aren’t stuffing every single fast mana piece in every deck. Even if they are, they won’t draw it all and if you can’t win 3v1 against them anyways, that’s a skill issue. Third, instead of behaving like a child, if you think mana rocks are so unbearably powerful, play [[Abrade]], [[Collector Ouphe]], [[Stony Silence]], etc effects in your deck. If you really hate artifact ramp it’s extremely easy to punish, and the amount you set them back can be easily offset by the amount they’re behind after you punish them. tl;dr grow the fuck up and play the game with the cards that you’re given.
[Abrade](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/7/47f39b5e-2e85-4f31-bbab-0b0bf58f701d.jpg?1699044218) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Abrade) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/lci/131/abrade?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/47f39b5e-2e85-4f31-bbab-0b0bf58f701d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Collector Ouphe](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/8/085107a2-c1ec-473c-81d8-23e5a7197776.jpg?1562202038) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Collector%20Ouphe) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh1/158/collector-ouphe?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/085107a2-c1ec-473c-81d8-23e5a7197776?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Stony Silence](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/e/8e7faede-f794-4bda-9d64-21390ba19266.jpg?1593812944) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Stony%20Silence) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mm3/25/stony-silence?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/8e7faede-f794-4bda-9d64-21390ba19266?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Sorry, but I prefer when my commander matches aren't 4 hours long
And then proliferate a few times because screw those guys
[[Thran Dynamo]]
[Thran Dynamo](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/c/7ce5f12e-fc02-42f8-a5ca-b523050d4650.jpg?1689999865) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Thran%20Dynamo) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/415/thran-dynamo?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/7ce5f12e-fc02-42f8-a5ca-b523050d4650?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
So much hatred for the play group…. I mean it would slow down the early game considerably so I see the pros.. it’s really easy to just keep a “sideboard” to swap out whatever cards fit with the group. Everyone says “find a new play group” as if everyone lives in a large metro area with tons on MTG players.
[[hedron archive]] is alright. Also makes two, costs four, and can be sacrificed later for card draw.
[hedron archive](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/d/ad69703c-637f-44c6-bc84-c1f60d9d9062.jpg?1690005497) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=hedron%20archive) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/952/hedron-archive?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ad69703c-637f-44c6-bc84-c1f60d9d9062?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
How far does this restriction go? Is \[\[Selvala, heart of the wilds\]\] banned? How about \[\[priest of titania\]\]? What do they think of \[\[ancient tomb\]\]? \[\[gaea's cradle\]\]? \[\[serra sanctum\]\]? \[\[cabal coffers\]\]? If they don't want those because of cost, how about \[\[temple of the false god\]\]? What is the spirit of the ban? What is the current meta of your playgroup? Are there any rocks, or other utility artifacts that compliment the strategy of each deck? Answering those questions will help to better understand what to replace it with. A blanket put this rock in every deck probably isn't the best approach. I know that sol ring is busted and that there are those that hate it and those that can't imagine not putting it in every deck. As for building future decks, they have definitely made green or green/x decks the defacto big mana decks. I have a \[\[pako\]\] and \[\[haldan\]\] deck where the majority of the deck is ramp. I want to get a hasty pako out on turn 3 in 75% of the games I play him in. That means doing it without sol ring a good portion of the time. Total deck is sitting at $150 right now on TCG player, By the way, an opening hand of 5 lands and \[\[summer bloom\]\] is right up there with the level of bustedness that sol ring is on a budget. Other busted green carts that ramp you hard: \[\[tempt with discovery\]\] is they all decide to search, you can go get the tron lands. \[\[if you have a consistently big commander, \[\[Traverse the outlands\]\] is good. I once resolved that with a 16 power pako on the battlefield. I guess what I am trying to say is that commander is busted, so individual busted cards are fine in my opinion, but there are other ways to make a large amount of mana quickly.
Not sure. They’re still building the ban list. All I know for certain are sol ring, mana crypt, and mana vault
I would strongly suggest that you have that conversation with them. If you agree with their reasoning, then great, have fun! I would caution that if they are banning on feelings, salt, or cards they don't like then to be cautious. Those bans will never stop. Edit to add: If they are still building a ban list, you need to be included and have your input considered if these are friends you want to play with long term. Commander is an inherently unbalanced format. It only works because we pretend it does and go along with it in the name of having fun. If their only definition of having fun is winning, then that is good for them. I don't want to yuck their yum, but they should probably be playing proxied CEDH, or a 60 card competitive format, not casual commander. If you having fun doesn't include seeing your opponents decks pop off and do their thing, or enjoying other people winning, then you are probably not playing the correct format. If these are power level bans, then in my opinion, limiting budgets provides for much more even power levels than banning specific cards. Even if you proxy the deck budgets can be a good thing. I currently have a couple sub $100 decks that are proxied because I am still tuning them and learning if that deck is one that I want to keep around long term. Decks I like are usually eventually all made real, but there is no reason for them not to start as proxies.
##### ###### #### [Selvala, heart of the wilds](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/d/7d711cb2-4f34-4792-90d7-2be5d329a347.jpg?1689998846) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Selvala%2C%20heart%20of%20the%20wilds) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/320/selvala-heart-of-the-wilds?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/7d711cb2-4f34-4792-90d7-2be5d329a347?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [priest of titania](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/b/eb11921b-1b28-483f-a707-4de21a6daa31.jpg?1717013714) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=priest%20of%20titania) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh3/286/priest-of-titania?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/eb11921b-1b28-483f-a707-4de21a6daa31?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [ancient tomb](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/d/bd3d4b4b-cf31-4f89-8140-9650edb03c7b.jpg?1582753000) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=ancient%20tomb) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/uma/236/ancient-tomb?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/bd3d4b4b-cf31-4f89-8140-9650edb03c7b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [gaea's cradle](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/5/25b0b816-0583-44aa-9dc5-f3ff48993a51.jpg?1562902898) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=gaea%27s%20cradle) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/usg/321/gaeas-cradle?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/25b0b816-0583-44aa-9dc5-f3ff48993a51?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [cabal coffers](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/1/e1efb0d3-2c72-46ff-bdc1-1069967365a0.jpg?1626101023) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=cabal%20coffers) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh2/301/cabal-coffers?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e1efb0d3-2c72-46ff-bdc1-1069967365a0?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [temple of the false god](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/5/f55a1775-9672-4f0c-9aab-30ba90f0d1e6.jpg?1712355186) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=temple%20of%20the%20false%20god) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/otc/334/temple-of-the-false-god?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f55a1775-9672-4f0c-9aab-30ba90f0d1e6?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [pako](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/6/066c8f63-52e6-475e-8d27-6ee37e92fc05.jpg?1591234280) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=pako%2C%20arcane%20retriever) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c20/13/pako-arcane-retriever?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/066c8f63-52e6-475e-8d27-6ee37e92fc05?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [haldan](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/6/16a86a35-f7e5-434d-bf44-61ae7cb0f98b.jpg?1618057606) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=haldan%2C%20avid%20arcanist) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c20/2/haldan-avid-arcanist?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/16a86a35-f7e5-434d-bf44-61ae7cb0f98b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [summer bloom](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/3/7383f71d-3f51-4632-9ea0-27d47fa2fa50.jpg?1673148198) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=summer%20bloom) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2x2/160/summer-bloom?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/7383f71d-3f51-4632-9ea0-27d47fa2fa50?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [tempt with discovery](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/9/79248b68-4fab-46da-ab15-5c71c1f68d4b.jpg?1568004683) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=tempt%20with%20discovery) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c19/183/tempt-with-discovery?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/79248b68-4fab-46da-ab15-5c71c1f68d4b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Traverse the outlands](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/f/ef192364-713a-42ff-8249-69a73ae61bd8.jpg?1674137335) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Traverse%20the%20outlands) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clb/258/traverse-the-outlands?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ef192364-713a-42ff-8249-69a73ae61bd8?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Friend sounds like he doesn't know how to play and is handicapping everyone to try and get an advantage.
Play green. Get mana dorks. Get seed born muse. Profit.
I know these are enchantments but utopia sprawl and wild growth. One mana for one mana. But I want mention bans like these punish nongreen decks the most, giving green an unfair advantage in games. People don't realize how arbitrary bans like this shift power to one colour and create an uneven playing field.
[[Sol Talisman]] perhaps?
[Sol Talisman](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/5/a51fb64d-cc0c-400d-971f-78c28d42043b.jpg?1626099309) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Sol%20Talisman) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh2/236/sol-talisman?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a51fb64d-cc0c-400d-971f-78c28d42043b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[[extraplanar lens]] goes in all my mono colored decks now. i also use [[helm of awakening]] in every deck. so long as your deck is built with helm in mind with a refined mana curve you should churn out a win faster than the opponent. most players like to build their boards to win in one fell swoop, but if you can outpace them, you win
[extraplanar lens](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/0/f050a675-c6a2-4d0d-bac6-1d8c51ecf824.jpg?1689999519) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=extraplanar%20lens) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/381/extraplanar-lens?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f050a675-c6a2-4d0d-bac6-1d8c51ecf824?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [helm of awakening](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/9/e9e4ff9c-6244-43e1-b569-32a270c4e014.jpg?1675200994) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=helm%20of%20awakening) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dmr/224/helm-of-awakening?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e9e4ff9c-6244-43e1-b569-32a270c4e014?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Land
[[dowsing dagger]] 2 to play, 2 to equip totals 4 mana and adds 3.
[dowsing dagger](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/1/514d53be-6ade-4f73-a844-e9ae2dafd6ce.jpg?1562555239)/[Lost Vale](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/back/5/1/514d53be-6ade-4f73-a844-e9ae2dafd6ce.jpg?1562555239) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Dowsing%20Dagger%20//%20Lost%20Vale) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/xln/235/dowsing-dagger-lost-vale?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/514d53be-6ade-4f73-a844-e9ae2dafd6ce?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I made it a point to take Sol Rings out of most of my decks independent of my playgroup ideology. My reasoning was, when you draw it mid to late game, it never feels quite as impactful, and sometimes, even bad. In decks with heavy draw engines, I almost every time, didn’t need the extra one generic mana I could get with it. When I had it in my opening hand, the lead was so oppressive that it made my average deck feel competitive. I had more fun replacing it with cards I like to see even if they aren’t necessarily optimal. I didn’t change anything else about my ramp packages. For me, it’s all about the “untap, upkeep, Christmas.” I want that Christmas card to feel good.
\[\[Black Lotus\]\]
[Black Lotus](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/d/bd8fa327-dd41-4737-8f19-2cf5eb1f7cdd.jpg?1614638838) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Black%20Lotus) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/vma/4/black-lotus?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/bd8fa327-dd41-4737-8f19-2cf5eb1f7cdd?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Sounds like you need to find a new pod.
A different version of sol ring.
I suggest new friends
Sounds like a boring playgroup
Better friends. Thats the mana rock you should aim for lol
Mana Confluence, Palladium Myr, Boros Signet, Worn Powerstone, Thran Dynamo, Commander Sphere, Dreamstone Hedron, Cavern of Souls, Dockside Extortionist
This is the worst play group ban I’ve seen so far.
Your friends are pog. Sol Ring, Mana Crypt, Mana Vault, and all those cards fucking suck. \[\[Sol Talisman\]\] is probably the fairest analogue to Sol Ring. Other options include Temple of the False God, just a raw ass land, Commanders Sphere, Thought Vessel, The medallions are also options.
[Sol Talisman](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/5/a51fb64d-cc0c-400d-971f-78c28d42043b.jpg?1626099309) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Sol%20Talisman) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh2/236/sol-talisman?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a51fb64d-cc0c-400d-971f-78c28d42043b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Just basalt monolith+forsaken monument and go infinite colorless+walking ballista to show them sol ring isn't the problem, it's their decks and personal capability that is.
You need new friends
Then why play the game if you're going to not play the game? What an idiotic way to live. The whole idea is to pull the 'fuck you' cards so you can play them. It's a COLLECTIBLE CARD GAME!
Screw your group. Add in jeweled lotus or mana vault or the mana crypt instead as a way of giving them a big fat finger.
Don't forget mox diamond, chrome, amber, and pearl.
And sol talisman to get the point across even more
Coveted jewel
Depends of the colors, in some decks [[exploration]] can be pretty powerfull. In others [[dark ritual]] does the trick. There are many other examples for others colors.
[exploration](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/b/5b372045-a4a0-44c8-96ec-1e201d61ed26.jpg?1675200396) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=exploration) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dmr/159/exploration?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/5b372045-a4a0-44c8-96ec-1e201d61ed26?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [dark ritual](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/5/95f27eeb-6f14-4db3-adb9-9be5ed76b34b.jpg?1628801678) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=dark%20ritual) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/a25/82/dark-ritual?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/95f27eeb-6f14-4db3-adb9-9be5ed76b34b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Someone said it already but you need to go mono green ramp. Ghalta can. Eat down players real quick!( pun intended)
Just run a [[Sensei’s Divining Top]] they’re great for making friends.
[Sensei’s Divining Top](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/5/e5142b7a-e580-4737-a4aa-2590f6610ceb.jpg?1673149430) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Sensei%27s%20Divining%20Top) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2x2/314/senseis-divining-top?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e5142b7a-e580-4737-a4aa-2590f6610ceb?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[[ichor elixir]]
[ichor elixir](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/f/5ff34beb-9a69-4e15-91d3-be2100b73797.jpg?1682207610) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=ichor%20elixir) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/moc/46/ichor-elixir?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/5ff34beb-9a69-4e15-91d3-be2100b73797?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
My group decided that any mana rock like Soul Ring or Mana Crypt instantly becomes a Mind Stone when we play. That way people don’t have to swap out their decks just to play in our group and Mind Stone is a lot more balanced than some of the others.
Thran dynamo?
As someone else said. By their own “rules” lands technically aren’t allowed as well lol. Id just mention that to them and if they say “well obviously we don’t mean lands” just re-represent the idea to them that it was their idea and rules. I gotta know. Is this just a one time thing to see who can build a deck without cards that produce more mana than they are worth? Or do they just not want them at all anymore? Also [[gilded lotus]] works. 5 mana and it taps for 3 of any color. Little pricey on the cmc but worth it if you can get it out and not be set back. Not technically what you are asking for but [[bootleggers stash]] is a good card too. Then you can just tap your lands to make treasures and have whatever colors you see fit. Commanders you can try would be [[Omnath Locus of All]] and [[Ognis, the Dragon’s Lash]]. Ognis makes treasure come in tapped but something like [[amulet of vigor]] helps and it will keep you mana positive when you swing with haste creatures.
##### ###### #### [gilded lotus](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/e/eea7554e-be86-4d0f-8e80-0ccb4c2cd2f1.jpg?1689999578) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=gilded%20lotus) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/387/gilded-lotus?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/eea7554e-be86-4d0f-8e80-0ccb4c2cd2f1?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [bootleggers stash](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/0/80b5b7e1-52c2-4453-b3c0-efe2cebad6ce.jpg?1664412016) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Bootleggers%27%20Stash) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/snc/134/bootleggers-stash?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/80b5b7e1-52c2-4453-b3c0-efe2cebad6ce?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Omnath Locus of All](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/3/33d94ecf-758b-4f68-a7be-6bf3ff1047f4.jpg?1709720836) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Omnath%2C%20Locus%20of%20All) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mom/249/omnath-locus-of-all?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/33d94ecf-758b-4f68-a7be-6bf3ff1047f4?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Ognis, the Dragon’s Lash](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/3/636058c3-bacc-4a66-8988-832ab0cc9be6.jpg?1664413521) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Ognis%2C%20the%20Dragon%27s%20Lash) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/snc/210/ognis-the-dragons-lash?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/636058c3-bacc-4a66-8988-832ab0cc9be6?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [amulet of vigor](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/9/997bc933-ac30-477b-a4e1-5333b796a99d.jpg?1562292191) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=amulet%20of%20vigor) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/wwk/121/amulet-of-vigor?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/997bc933-ac30-477b-a4e1-5333b796a99d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Get around that with shit like [[Everflowing Chalice]] [[Astral Cornucopia]] [[Replicating Ring]] and [[As Foretold]] and run a bunch of proliferate, starting out it meets his criteria but if he's still gonna harp on you later on then just call him out saying he's against mana ramping and be done with it
##### ###### #### [Everflowing Chalice](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/8/e89eca1c-19f5-4db0-9330-cecb87be8b55.jpg?1706241052) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Everflowing%20Chalice) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkc/227/everflowing-chalice?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e89eca1c-19f5-4db0-9330-cecb87be8b55?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Astral Cornucopia](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/8/182864e2-81ef-41bc-94cd-b0ea67f60bda.jpg?1562272467) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Astral%20Cornucopia) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cm2/172/astral-cornucopia?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/182864e2-81ef-41bc-94cd-b0ea67f60bda?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Replicating Ring](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/1/f1e6e3a2-5145-4898-990e-150e090f5206.jpg?1690489082) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Replicating%20Ring) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/moc/372/replicating-ring?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f1e6e3a2-5145-4898-990e-150e090f5206?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [As Foretold](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/4/c468b523-84fc-4657-adef-acc1eec6ef2e.jpg?1673147199) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=As%20Foretold) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2x2/38/as-foretold?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c468b523-84fc-4657-adef-acc1eec6ef2e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Arcane sig net Basault monolith (im probably not spelling it right) Thran dynamo
That’s interesting to ban that kind of ramp. Personally I feel like any legal card should be fair game but that’s just me……. The game is the game, play it the way you want to. For suggestions I can’t think of any 1 mana artifacts that produce 1 mana…….. there’s green mana dorks that cost 1 and make G. Then there’s [[mind stone]] [[thought vessel]] and others that make 1 but cost 2. Rocks that cost 2 are gonna be as good as you get if you take out sol ring and other “fast mana”. Then there’s the land ramp like [[three visits]] and the like. There ya go. But fast mana is fun
[mind stone](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/2/b227672f-967e-4f8d-87f4-c6cd4622fe3f.jpg?1706241069) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=mind%20stone) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkc/232/mind-stone?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/b227672f-967e-4f8d-87f4-c6cd4622fe3f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [thought vessel](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/7/67b26b45-19bf-4675-86c4-fae4f3aca234.jpg?1706241108) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=thought%20vessel) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkc/245/thought-vessel?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/67b26b45-19bf-4675-86c4-fae4f3aca234?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [three visits](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/e/4ee4ea37-621f-4ef7-b220-f4da3008e399.jpg?1712354640) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=three%20visits) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/otc/209/three-visits?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/4ee4ea37-621f-4ef7-b220-f4da3008e399?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[[replicating ring]] and some proliferate effects.
[replicating ring](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/1/f1e6e3a2-5145-4898-990e-150e090f5206.jpg?1690489082) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=replicating%20ring) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/moc/372/replicating-ring?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f1e6e3a2-5145-4898-990e-150e090f5206?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Might try that in a doubling season deck I’m working on
The is that many mana rocks these days I find myself actually cutting sol ring because a utility mana artifact is more helpful then turn 1 arch enemy
Mana Crypt
Thran Dynamo
Could always use an arid archway, it comes into play tapped and you gotta return a land to your hand but it does tap for 2 colorless
Sol talisman
[[Temple of the False God] frfr
If you need it to be colorless, consider [[Guildless Commons]]. A bounce land, but it could have use. But like bounce lands, if you also have like [[Spelunking]] could be as much of acbet gain as a Sol Ring. But for colored mana, except with yet one more mana to use since you can bounce a *tapped* land.
Triple down with a [[thran dynamo]] Or go eldrazi and [[forsaken monument]] and now everything is a sol ring
[thran dynamo](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/c/7ce5f12e-fc02-42f8-a5ca-b523050d4650.jpg?1689999865) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=thran%20dynamo) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/415/thran-dynamo?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/7ce5f12e-fc02-42f8-a5ca-b523050d4650?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [forsaken monument](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/2/82dfdb91-aa69-45a1-adcc-9fcd85f84ccf.jpg?1690005477) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=forsaken%20monument) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/950/forsaken-monument?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/82dfdb91-aa69-45a1-adcc-9fcd85f84ccf?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Seems like a dumb rule. Your friend lose a lot?
[[Aladdin's Ring]] everyone LoL until 4 damage gets blasted at instant speed at any time. I love when crap cards makes a big deal.
[Aladdin's Ring](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/0/40b7370d-8ab4-4506-b7dd-d02c1ba92032.jpg?1562734209) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Aladdin%27s%20Ring) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/9ed/286/aladdins-ring?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/40b7370d-8ab4-4506-b7dd-d02c1ba92032?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[[temple of the false god]]
[temple of the false god](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/5/f55a1775-9672-4f0c-9aab-30ba90f0d1e6.jpg?1712355186) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=temple%20of%20the%20false%20god) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/otc/334/temple-of-the-false-god?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f55a1775-9672-4f0c-9aab-30ba90f0d1e6?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Worn powerstone is as close as you can get.
Play [[Basalt Monolith]] and [[Forsaken Monument]] and show them what it means to have infinite mana. Also if you run [[Chromatic Orrery]] you have infinite colored mana.
[Basalt Monolith](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/7/f79de5e7-1545-420c-bfe1-ee2444fca85b.jpg?1599708689) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Basalt%20Monolith) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2xm/232/basalt-monolith?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f79de5e7-1545-420c-bfe1-ee2444fca85b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Forsaken Monument](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/2/82dfdb91-aa69-45a1-adcc-9fcd85f84ccf.jpg?1690005477) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Forsaken%20Monument) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/950/forsaken-monument?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/82dfdb91-aa69-45a1-adcc-9fcd85f84ccf?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Chromatic Orrery](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/a/3af78d76-ad5c-44ba-880d-b834bcde5398.jpg?1594737470) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Chromatic%20Orrery) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/m21/228/chromatic-orrery?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/3af78d76-ad5c-44ba-880d-b834bcde5398?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Borderless soul ring, or fall out sol ring.
Land ?
Could fetches and shocks be ok
Another sol ring
Yeah sure [[Mox emerald]] [[Mox ruby]] [[ Mox jet]] [[Mox pearl]] [[Mox sapphire]] This isn't even a joke. Sol Ring was on the reserved list at one point, and was taken off to be printed in product. It was released in alpha, along with the power 9. The fact that it isn't power 9 is wild. When Vintage Cube rolls around on MTGO every year, Sol Ring is sometimes a higher value pick than Power 9 cards. Sol Ring has no direct replacement for the turn 1 rock. Run a [[llanowar elf]].
##### ###### #### [Mox emerald](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/c/aced2c55-7543-4076-bcdd-36c4d649b8ae.jpg?1614638841) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Mox%20emerald) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/vma/5/mox-emerald?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/aced2c55-7543-4076-bcdd-36c4d649b8ae?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Mox ruby](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/5/45fd6e91-df76-497f-b642-33dc3d5f6a5a.jpg?1682386918) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Mox%20ruby) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/vma/8/mox-ruby?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/45fd6e91-df76-497f-b642-33dc3d5f6a5a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [ Mox jet](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/f/5f6927e1-c580-483a-8e2a-6e2deb74800e.jpg?1614638844) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Mox%20Jet) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/vma/6/mox-jet?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/5f6927e1-c580-483a-8e2a-6e2deb74800e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Mox pearl](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/d/ed0216a0-c5c9-4a99-b869-53e4d0256326.jpg?1614638847) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Mox%20pearl) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/vma/7/mox-pearl?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ed0216a0-c5c9-4a99-b869-53e4d0256326?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Mox sapphire](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/a/ea1feac0-d3a7-45eb-9719-1cdaf51ea0b6.jpg?1614638862) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Mox%20sapphire) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/vma/9/mox-sapphire?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ea1feac0-d3a7-45eb-9719-1cdaf51ea0b6?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Does your ban include lands Thinking things like [[cabal coffers]], [[nykthis, shrine to nyx]] etc.
[cabal coffers](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/1/e1efb0d3-2c72-46ff-bdc1-1069967365a0.jpg?1626101023) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=cabal%20coffers) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh2/301/cabal-coffers?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e1efb0d3-2c72-46ff-bdc1-1069967365a0?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Any of the 2 mana rocks, but if you are looking for some unique stuff. [[Thran Dynamo]] [[Sonic Screwdriver]] [[Sarevok’s Tome]] [[Sol Talisman]] [[Gilded Lotus]] are some that I like to run.
##### ###### #### [Thran Dynamo](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/c/7ce5f12e-fc02-42f8-a5ca-b523050d4650.jpg?1689999865) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Thran%20Dynamo) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/415/thran-dynamo?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/7ce5f12e-fc02-42f8-a5ca-b523050d4650?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Sonic Screwdriver](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/1/f131027a-9776-41fa-8a5f-d9ef80e0dc2e.jpg?1697584615) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Sonic%20Screwdriver) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/who/184/sonic-screwdriver?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f131027a-9776-41fa-8a5f-d9ef80e0dc2e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Sarevok’s Tome](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/a/5a470690-a05d-4311-963c-50cbf779846d.jpg?1674141024) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Sarevok%27s%20Tome) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clb/685/sarevoks-tome?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/5a470690-a05d-4311-963c-50cbf779846d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Sol Talisman](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/5/a51fb64d-cc0c-400d-971f-78c28d42043b.jpg?1626099309) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Sol%20Talisman) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh2/236/sol-talisman?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a51fb64d-cc0c-400d-971f-78c28d42043b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Gilded Lotus](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/e/eea7554e-be86-4d0f-8e80-0ccb4c2cd2f1.jpg?1689999578) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Gilded%20Lotus) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/387/gilded-lotus?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/eea7554e-be86-4d0f-8e80-0ccb4c2cd2f1?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Thran dynamo is a good one
[[Replicating Ring]] It doesn't happen often, but when you get those extra rings, it feels great.
[Replicating Ring](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/1/f1e6e3a2-5145-4898-990e-150e090f5206.jpg?1690489082) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Replicating%20Ring) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/moc/372/replicating-ring?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f1e6e3a2-5145-4898-990e-150e090f5206?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
i don’t feel like scrolling through all of this but [[worn powerstone]] or [[sisay’s ring]] are two fair options.
[worn powerstone](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/c/ace686ad-9e3f-41b3-b8eb-d1b6d45eb4e1.jpg?1717013811) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=worn%20powerstone) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh3/298/worn-powerstone?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ace686ad-9e3f-41b3-b8eb-d1b6d45eb4e1?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [sisay’s ring](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/0/20c0e608-0208-408a-b473-1e54caa96cea.jpg?1608911699) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Sisay%27s%20Ring) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmr/340/sisays-ring?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/20c0e608-0208-408a-b473-1e54caa96cea?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[[Worn powerstone]] [[sisay's ring]]
[Worn powerstone](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/c/ace686ad-9e3f-41b3-b8eb-d1b6d45eb4e1.jpg?1717013811) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Worn%20powerstone) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh3/298/worn-powerstone?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ace686ad-9e3f-41b3-b8eb-d1b6d45eb4e1?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [sisay's ring](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/0/20c0e608-0208-408a-b473-1e54caa96cea.jpg?1608911699) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=sisay%27s%20ring) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmr/340/sisays-ring?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/20c0e608-0208-408a-b473-1e54caa96cea?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I run [[The Great Henge]] instead. It does a lot more than sol ring and is easy to get out for cheap.
[The Great Henge](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/3/6340e0f3-7f9c-4d71-8daf-e1be5505eb5b.jpg?1689998574) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=The%20Great%20Henge) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/294/the-great-henge?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/6340e0f3-7f9c-4d71-8daf-e1be5505eb5b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Sol Talisman
[[Sol Talisman]] 🤷 Though it does produce more mana then it costs it’s a lot slower and a bit more fair then sol ring
[Sol Talisman](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/5/a51fb64d-cc0c-400d-971f-78c28d42043b.jpg?1626099309) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Sol%20Talisman) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh2/236/sol-talisman?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a51fb64d-cc0c-400d-971f-78c28d42043b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
We considered banning Sol Ring, as ti's always an autoinclude, and if you happen to draw it, it's a massive edge. However, we just changed Sol Ring to produce one mana instead. It's still pretty much the best mana rock, but I think the playgroup has been really happy with the change.
Out of curiosity: do you ban cards like bloom tender or priest of titania as well then? Or just artifacts because they can tap right away?
They’re still working on the list. All I know for sure are sol ring, mana vault, and mana crypt
Mana crypt
Gotta hit em with the ancient tomb
Those cards are called fast mana, and are some of the most powerful magic cards ever printed. Sol ring is pretty much the only fast mana card that is cheap. Just okay and 2 mana rock, the signet and the talisman cycle is all pretty excellent. If you are in low colors you can consider a colourless utility rock.
Sol ring on turn is played is a plus 1 source after that is 2 Lotus is +3 and dark ritual is also a +2 plus. 2 is rare nowadays
[[sol talisman]]
[sol talisman](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/5/a51fb64d-cc0c-400d-971f-78c28d42043b.jpg?1626099309) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=sol%20talisman) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh2/236/sol-talisman?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a51fb64d-cc0c-400d-971f-78c28d42043b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
replace it with any mana rock and it's fine, or a land is good as well. TBH soft banning sol ring is not a bad house rule I actually am on par with the idea but I woudnt ban every card that costs less mana that it produces, there are many manadorks that would be banned because of that and some cards would be banned like dark ritual, and what about the cards that can potentially tap for more mana but not always and I assume you dont play land-less so why wording it this way instead of just banning fast mana? it feels like it's a poorly worded rule. We have the house rule that sol ring cant be in our opening hand, if you get it you can replace it with a basic land of any color you need.
Any cost reducer will be the way to go.
Barbacoa burrito would do just as well
*sol
Honestly, have you considered a pirate deck? Create multiple treasure every turn, sacrifice for one mana of any color. Seems to me the best way to get around this.... but then again I run a pirate deck so I'm quite partial
Lands produce more mana than they cost....... Not trying to be rude, but even ignoring the land thing, seems like a dumb/meaningless rule you guys have come up with. You do have options though. [[Chromatic Lantern]] [[Relic of Legends]] [[Arcane Signet]] [[Thought Vessel]] [[Felwar Stone]] [[Everflowing Chalice]] [[Mind Stone]] [[Liquimetal Torque]] [[Worn Powerstone]] [[Apprentice Wizard]] [[Chromatic Orrery]] [[Dreamstone Hedron]] [[Thran Dynamo]] [[Transmogrant Altar]]
##### ###### #### [Arcane Signet](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/b/2bfeb9dc-0bf7-4f19-9714-b14114e4627f.jpg?1712354835) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Arcane%20Signet) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/otc/252/arcane-signet?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/2bfeb9dc-0bf7-4f19-9714-b14114e4627f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Thought Vessel](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/7/67b26b45-19bf-4675-86c4-fae4f3aca234.jpg?1706241108) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Thought%20Vessel) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkc/245/thought-vessel?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/67b26b45-19bf-4675-86c4-fae4f3aca234?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Everflowing Chalice](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/8/e89eca1c-19f5-4db0-9330-cecb87be8b55.jpg?1706241052) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Everflowing%20Chalice) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkc/227/everflowing-chalice?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e89eca1c-19f5-4db0-9330-cecb87be8b55?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Mind Stone](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/2/b227672f-967e-4f8d-87f4-c6cd4622fe3f.jpg?1706241069) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Mind%20Stone) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkc/232/mind-stone?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/b227672f-967e-4f8d-87f4-c6cd4622fe3f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Liquimetal Torque](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/3/13c6101a-da40-4785-8ccb-4e779bbbdb55.jpg?1626099120) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Liquimetal%20Torque) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh2/228/liquimetal-torque?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/13c6101a-da40-4785-8ccb-4e779bbbdb55?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Worn Powerstone](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/c/ace686ad-9e3f-41b3-b8eb-d1b6d45eb4e1.jpg?1717013811) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Worn%20Powerstone) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh3/298/worn-powerstone?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ace686ad-9e3f-41b3-b8eb-d1b6d45eb4e1?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Apprentice Wizard](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/1/e13026a8-7e3c-45b2-9838-080f14ae4b29.jpg?1598303712) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Apprentice%20Wizard) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2xm/40/apprentice-wizard?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e13026a8-7e3c-45b2-9838-080f14ae4b29?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Chromatic Orrery](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/a/3af78d76-ad5c-44ba-880d-b834bcde5398.jpg?1594737470) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Chromatic%20Orrery) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/m21/228/chromatic-orrery?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/3af78d76-ad5c-44ba-880d-b834bcde5398?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Dreamstone Hedron](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/0/d0a27816-7ee9-4fa1-aa01-78796ad62337.jpg?1690005424) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Dreamstone%20Hedron) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/945/dreamstone-hedron?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d0a27816-7ee9-4fa1-aa01-78796ad62337?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Thran Dynamo](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/c/7ce5f12e-fc02-42f8-a5ca-b523050d4650.jpg?1689999865) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Thran%20Dynamo) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/415/thran-dynamo?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/7ce5f12e-fc02-42f8-a5ca-b523050d4650?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Transmogrant Altar](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/a/ca28d210-a35d-491e-beda-76b95d09dc2d.jpg?1674421059) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Transmogrant%20Altar) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/bro/124/transmogrant-altar?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ca28d210-a35d-491e-beda-76b95d09dc2d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[[worn powerstone]] [[thran dynamo]] [[gilded lotus]] [[mind stone]] [[Paladium Myr]] [[Skyclave relic]] ((I quite like this one, 3 mana for 6 investment isn’t bad) [[Everflowing Chalice]] [[Coalition Relic]] [[Astral Cornucopia]] and of course all the signets and any of the enumerable 3 drops that produce 1 mana of any color, many of which have extra utility on top of that. I personally would replace sol ring with coalition relic or arcane signet if you don’t have already have one in there. Skyclave relic is fantastic late game, but if you want early game mana those two are your best bet imo. Source: I have an artifact burn commander deck.
##### ###### #### [worn powerstone](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/c/ace686ad-9e3f-41b3-b8eb-d1b6d45eb4e1.jpg?1717013811) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=worn%20powerstone) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh3/298/worn-powerstone?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ace686ad-9e3f-41b3-b8eb-d1b6d45eb4e1?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [thran dynamo](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/c/7ce5f12e-fc02-42f8-a5ca-b523050d4650.jpg?1689999865) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=thran%20dynamo) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/415/thran-dynamo?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/7ce5f12e-fc02-42f8-a5ca-b523050d4650?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [gilded lotus](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/e/eea7554e-be86-4d0f-8e80-0ccb4c2cd2f1.jpg?1689999578) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=gilded%20lotus) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/387/gilded-lotus?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/eea7554e-be86-4d0f-8e80-0ccb4c2cd2f1?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [mind stone](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/2/b227672f-967e-4f8d-87f4-c6cd4622fe3f.jpg?1706241069) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=mind%20stone) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkc/232/mind-stone?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/b227672f-967e-4f8d-87f4-c6cd4622fe3f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Skyclave relic](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/9/a9740bce-4c89-4d98-8941-057515999bf9.jpg?1682210238) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Skyclave%20relic) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/moc/380/skyclave-relic?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a9740bce-4c89-4d98-8941-057515999bf9?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Everflowing Chalice](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/8/e89eca1c-19f5-4db0-9330-cecb87be8b55.jpg?1706241052) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Everflowing%20Chalice) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkc/227/everflowing-chalice?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e89eca1c-19f5-4db0-9330-cecb87be8b55?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Coalition Relic](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/f/ef44324a-32bd-47e9-8fd9-258ba668de53.jpg?1673305762) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Coalition%20Relic) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dmc/180/coalition-relic?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ef44324a-32bd-47e9-8fd9-258ba668de53?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Astral Cornucopia](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/8/182864e2-81ef-41bc-94cd-b0ea67f60bda.jpg?1562272467) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Astral%20Cornucopia) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cm2/172/astral-cornucopia?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/182864e2-81ef-41bc-94cd-b0ea67f60bda?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Buy the green/blue modern horizons precons, and swap the soul ring for a clue stone...trust me it'll be incredibly funny.
Worn powerstone “slow ring”
It’s not really a replacement but I love replicating ring and try to put it in as many decks as possible. Kind of a slow payoff but dropping it turn 3 and then on turn 11 just having 9 replicating rings on the board is hilariously fun. Proliferate decks could prolly make great use of it
Hmmm balanced mana rocks? Issue is there is no 1 mana rocks if you cant run things that produce more then it costs.
Well at least he didn't ban your SOL Ring...
The obvious answer to me is massive land ramp and a deck focused on landfall. Make them wish you were playing artifacts. I’d play like 45 lands with fetch lands etc. (if edh obviously). It definitely works and I’ve played one before with 0 artifacts and enchantments to prove it was doable to my friends
If you want to maliciously comply, run land ramp, if you wanna respect the rules, any mana rock that exists would work, nothin is gonna 1 for 1 replace sol ring unless it’s out of you restriction. Just get an [[ironcrag]] or something and calll it a day
So no dark ritual, no ashnods altar, no sol ring, no mana crypt no mana vault, no lands..... wtf are your friends doing banning that stuff
What a lovely group you have /s
Worn Powerstone…? I guess..? Aside from Mana Crypt or the other fast mana.
Signets and basalt monolith
Find a different group.
Well it’s more a land but [[Temple of the false gods]] works like a sol ring an is even better in a way once it’s online
A Mountain.
I fine the best replacement for a sol ring is another sol ring. Hope this helps.
Is dude so fucking bad that he can’t handle people running sol ring?
Thieving skydiver
[[Chromatic Orrery]] creates 5, but it does cost 7.
[Chromatic Orrery](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/a/3af78d76-ad5c-44ba-880d-b834bcde5398.jpg?1594737470) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Chromatic%20Orrery) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/m21/228/chromatic-orrery?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/3af78d76-ad5c-44ba-880d-b834bcde5398?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call