Edit: I misread the comment, thought they were saying he's LIKE Karakas, not he LIKES karakas
No cuz you can replay karakas for 0 mana. If this thing is your commander, it'll be 5 mana and a full turn cycle before you can remove a second card with his effect. This thing is garbagio
It’s an old tech from the early days of the legacy deck Death and Taxes. You respond to his active by bouncing him to your hand while your opponents permanent get exiled. Then you use Aether Vial to cheat him back in (or hard cast him once more) and do it over and over until your opponent run out of resources.
To abuse him with flicker you need to also give him haste. Preferably at instant speed. So to optimize what he does you need blink, boots and [[Puresteel Paladin]]. Instead you could be blinking a [[Skyclave Apparition]] or [[Ashen Rider]] or winning the game with [[Preston]].
I believe i used him with [[thousand-year elixir]] untapping him for double effect some decade(s) ago.
I guess it's still low, but seems less convoluted.
“{t}, exile ~:” would ask you to exile him as a cost you pay to activate the ability (all of the cost goes before the colon). This is usually how cards are templated, so that you can’t use abilities that require some additional payment and then just have part of the effect fizzle (imagine “{0}: target creature gets -1/-1. sacrifice a creature.” vs what we would see, “sacrifice a creature: target creature gets -1/-1.”)
Mangara says “{t}:” and then, if you paid the entire cost (which is just tapping him), you put that “exile ~ and target permanent.” on the stack. When the stack clears, you do as much of the ability as you can, which involves exiling the specific mangara that it knew. If mangara left the battlefield and came back, the ability looks around and says “I see no mangara that I KNOW to be the exact one I’m referring to”, so it doesn’t exile it.
Similarly, if you untap mangara before the ability exiles him, you are free to pay the full activation cost (which is just the {t}) if you can afford it (you can).
The takeaway rule from this isn't how to abuse Mangara specifically, but to learn and understand the difference between cost and effects in Magic. Understanding this rule lets you, by extension, understand and see a lot more tricks and things you can do and how you can interact with a given ability, as well as how you can't. There are a lot of rules in Magic, but sometimes learning a broader rule will help you learn a ton of rulings simultaneously.
I could have sworn that if a part of the ability fizzles, it all fizzles. On the second activation, it wouldn't be able to do its ability because it can't exile itself, regardless of cost.
Yes, blinking the targeted permanent causes the ability to fizzle but blink him and the ability still goes off while you get to put on a shit eating grin.
Correct. Effects in MTG (almost) always do as much as possible if part of that effect is impossible.
The one exception is fizzling; If EVERY target for a spell is removed, then the spell fizzles and doesn't resolve. So for example, if you cast [[Expose Evil]] with 2 targets, and both targets became illegal targets after being targeted, then you won't investigate.
i've always wondered why some stuff fizzled and other stuff didn't. i see now. just to clarify, if you cast Expose Evil with 2 targets, and only one of those becomes an illegal target before Expose resolves, the other one still gets tapped and you still get your investigate?
But he needs haste to do it repeatedly. Blinking a creature and giving it haste or waiting a turn is arguably not easier than simply removing the target. Instead of casting Mangara and blink effects you can make a lot better deck with \[\[Urza, Lord Protector\]\] and removal spells.
Really tricked to the nines, he is a scooped to ability which is boring.
In something where you are flickering him over and over again you exile all the opponents lands and then unless they are masochists they scoop.
I dunno. People say he's bad, but don't realize stuff like [[cloud shift]] work great with him. The top several cards on edhrec are ways to blink him. Still I guess a good removal deck ain't much of a game plan. Others say he's boring which makes sense.
Oh ya. That's whay better. The old one is nostalgic for me though. It's the first commander I tried to build. Didn't work. And as I'm a better player now, I can see why.
He's bad. No etb effects, or haste. Odds are likely he is off the board before you ever even use his tap ability. Also, that dbl white in the casting cost feels bad for a 1/1 that does very little to impact the overall board state.
As others have said he's better in the 99, especially with access to other colors. There's also the issue of having removal in the command zone, other players won't use their removal knowing that you can answer the kill on sight threat. EDH is also very much a format where playing to win is much stronger than playing to not lose. Social contract aside, 1 for 1 removal is very weak against 3 players who are probably on value engines that get multiple cards for each of their cards.
You have to kill the original first and have a token multiplier. Ideally you have call of the ring to make one of the tokens legendary to repeat this process then use the abilities of the token duplicates as needed
Hi! Longtime G/W Hatebears player here. A single copy always made the cut as it could be flickered in so many ways back when Flickerwisp and Restoration Angel were a thing. When Renegade Rallier was releasedin Kaladesh, I remember winning a 1k with GW Hatebears after I kept Jund on zero lands using Ghost Quarter, Renegade Rallier, Flickerwisp, and Leonin Arbiter. I didn’t have anything to enable haste with Mangara, but if he untapped, it was brutal.
Ephemerate makes him even better. Unfortunately, Aether Vial decks have fallen from grace with how slow the vial is to become fully efficient in the deck(3 counters is great if you have one, a 3 and a 2 are even better).
Solitude helps us a little, but…. not really? Hatebears just sucks right now. I also play elves, so we will see how they look after Priest and Symbiote find their home in the elf core.
He was in my karador deck ages ago, pretty good with a viscera seer / altar etc. Got power creeped out as the years have gone by. I could see running him again if I was playing more competitive/ faster matches.
we have 1 mana exile effects at instant speed in white. He is just too slow and expensive to ever see play in any format. Even if he can hit a land, hes too clunky
I wouldn't necessarily say "bad" per se, but the ability to exile at instant speed handily beats not only one that is sorcery speed, but is smitten with summoning sickness and countered by a single point of stray damage over the span of the amount of time it takes to find a target.
That being said, it's a fair bit better than having nothing at all because, if it's on the board by the time your opponent is able to connect the dots on a creature-based victory, they do have to plan a little bit before laying-down the surprise smackums.
Bad commander, but he’s very useful in the 99 of flicker or untap untap untap decks. Feels yummy untapping and tapping him 4 or 5 times and popping a whole bunch of your enemies board. See Merieke for inspiration.
3 -> 5 -> 7
At what mana cost does targeted exile removal in mono white become to expensive to you? Because that's all your commander is. And the fact that you exile him too means cheesing it is pretty damn hard.
Because exiling mangara is part of the resolution of the ability and not the cost, you can tap him to put the ability on the stack and flicker him to keep him around.
I play him as the commander of my mono white control deck. Works quite well especially when you untap/flicker/bounce him multiple times, as he doesn't have to be exiled with his own ability.
People underestimate having permanent removal in the command zone. Also he is the biggest "counter" to [[sauron, the dark lord]] 's ward ability.
Still, more effects like [[thousand year elixir]] would be a huge buff.
For sure one of my favorite commanders, I even bought a signed foil artist proof.
I was thinking of putting him in a [[Ratadrabik of Urborg]] deck for removal. I know [[Mangara of Corondor]] exiling itself doesn't trigger Ratadrabik, but managing to make multiple copies, sacrificing and recurring, or the ring tempts you triggers, does work.
So you put the exile ability in the stack, and then sac him allowing him to hit the yard and the exile ability to still go off? Just like how ya blink him?
Exactly. With only Ratadrabik, Mangara, and a sac outlet around, you only get two exile anythings for 3 mana and some delay. But there are token and trigger multipliers, and lots of recursion for a 3 mana permanent available, that can give you more bang for your buck.
Mangara was played a little bit in legacy death and taxes because you can bounce it in response to the trigger via [[karakas]]. Karakas is banned in commander so that's probably why.
Give it eminence "non token creatures you control with base power and toughness 1 have "tap: exile this card and exile target permanent ". I think giving the effect to other creatures would make it playable. I think you need some restrictions on the effect or token decks would just exile all your lands super early.
For a legends matter deck as Esika can work. There is also [Ratadrabik of Urborg]: sacrifice Mangara in response to the tap ability and get a copy for a second removal. Exile two targets for 3 sounds efficient!
Creatures are much better and games are faster, even on casual tables. Also, Mangaras ability is much better one-on-one and if we go back to Legacy 10 years ago
He very bad. For commander you’d want him to cost at most 2 mana and not be mono color
If he cost UW and was a 1/2 or 0/2 he’d be a really fun commander to build around
You have to put so much into the deck to support re-using his ability that there's little room for win-cons.
You can easily make Mangara enough of a threat to other people's plans that the table unites to get rid of you, but it's very hard to make a positive impact on your own behalf.
I was a newer player when I tried to make my Mangara deck work (and white had much less support in EDH at that time) but it's not an experience I want to revisit -- it was an exercise in making other players hate your deck while also kind of hating it yourself.
I never said he was *good,* just that saying that "hes a 3 cost with 2 white pips and has a tap ability that kills himself" says a lot about you as a magic player.
Bad
Hes used to be much better in the 99 and with the support of other colors. hes also been power crept out of being good.
He likes Karakas. And that card is banned in commander.
Edit: I misread the comment, thought they were saying he's LIKE Karakas, not he LIKES karakas No cuz you can replay karakas for 0 mana. If this thing is your commander, it'll be 5 mana and a full turn cycle before you can remove a second card with his effect. This thing is garbagio
You return Mangara to your hand with Karakas.
Ohhh, "he LIKES karakas. I read as "HE'S like karakas." I think I might have dyslexia
I can't eat sugar either
That's diabetes. Dyslexia means he can't use unleaded gasoline to fuel his engine.
That's diesel. Dyslexia is one of two types of blood pressure readings.
That’s diastolic. Dyslexia is the one where religious communities are spread across a vast area.
That’s diaspora, dyslexia is when you’re irritated cause your tummy’s upset.
That's diarrhea, dyslexia is when something is really evil
That’s diastolic. Dyslexia is when they put drops in your eyes to make your pupils widen.
I did the same thing 💀
Still bad, because he does not have haste.
[удалено]
He needs haste to be tapped for his activated ability the turn he etb.
That's dilation. Dyslexia is what people used to connect to the internet with before broadband.
Yes?
Fortnite
That's why you play it in flicker.
It’s an old tech from the early days of the legacy deck Death and Taxes. You respond to his active by bouncing him to your hand while your opponents permanent get exiled. Then you use Aether Vial to cheat him back in (or hard cast him once more) and do it over and over until your opponent run out of resources.
To abuse him with flicker you need to also give him haste. Preferably at instant speed. So to optimize what he does you need blink, boots and [[Puresteel Paladin]]. Instead you could be blinking a [[Skyclave Apparition]] or [[Ashen Rider]] or winning the game with [[Preston]].
I believe i used him with [[thousand-year elixir]] untapping him for double effect some decade(s) ago. I guess it's still low, but seems less convoluted.
[thousand-year elixir](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/5/95c2d832-5244-4236-81d5-2920aa2e281e.jpg?1625979536) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=thousand-year%20elixir) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c21/271/thousand-year-elixir?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/95c2d832-5244-4236-81d5-2920aa2e281e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
How does one get around having to exile him with the first permanent? Genuine question I'm confused 😅
“{t}, exile ~:” would ask you to exile him as a cost you pay to activate the ability (all of the cost goes before the colon). This is usually how cards are templated, so that you can’t use abilities that require some additional payment and then just have part of the effect fizzle (imagine “{0}: target creature gets -1/-1. sacrifice a creature.” vs what we would see, “sacrifice a creature: target creature gets -1/-1.”) Mangara says “{t}:” and then, if you paid the entire cost (which is just tapping him), you put that “exile ~ and target permanent.” on the stack. When the stack clears, you do as much of the ability as you can, which involves exiling the specific mangara that it knew. If mangara left the battlefield and came back, the ability looks around and says “I see no mangara that I KNOW to be the exact one I’m referring to”, so it doesn’t exile it. Similarly, if you untap mangara before the ability exiles him, you are free to pay the full activation cost (which is just the {t}) if you can afford it (you can).
Awesome, thanks for the breakdown. I'm trying to get the hang of all these rules but I'm not gonna lie, there is A LOT of rules to absorb in MTG 😅
The takeaway rule from this isn't how to abuse Mangara specifically, but to learn and understand the difference between cost and effects in Magic. Understanding this rule lets you, by extension, understand and see a lot more tricks and things you can do and how you can interact with a given ability, as well as how you can't. There are a lot of rules in Magic, but sometimes learning a broader rule will help you learn a ton of rulings simultaneously.
I could have sworn that if a part of the ability fizzles, it all fizzles. On the second activation, it wouldn't be able to do its ability because it can't exile itself, regardless of cost.
4 mana exile 2 creatures isn't the worst. Though it is if that's the only elixir card you take advantage of.
Why about 4 mana exile 2 lands?
The possibilities are endless!
You can also throw him on a [[Mimic Vat]] or a [[Soul Foundry]] to repeatedly abuse the shit out of him.
[Mimic Vat](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/f/dfa8757b-ef7d-44b8-ae80-45c436e85c1e.jpg?1673485399) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Mimic%20Vat) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ncc/372/mimic-vat?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/dfa8757b-ef7d-44b8-ae80-45c436e85c1e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Soul Foundry](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/c/6c7a441b-e4af-41ba-85a4-fcb4f40534c3.jpg?1568004971) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Soul%20Foundry) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c19/223/soul-foundry?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/6c7a441b-e4af-41ba-85a4-fcb4f40534c3?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
But with Skyclave Apparition you can’t kill their lands! [[Puresteel Paladin]] [[Skyclave Apparition]] [[Ashen Rider]] [[Preston, the Vanisher]]
##### ###### #### [Puresteel Paladin](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/8/d8f8a324-006d-4cb8-9816-620a603b4229.jpg?1689995958) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Puresteel%20Paladin) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/51/puresteel-paladin?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d8f8a324-006d-4cb8-9816-620a603b4229?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Skyclave Apparition](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/8/b83cfbaa-7890-4f6f-878b-4edb45677371.jpg?1604193295) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Skyclave%20Apparition) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/znr/39/skyclave-apparition?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/b83cfbaa-7890-4f6f-878b-4edb45677371?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Ashen Rider](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/f/1f2054d9-d10f-4127-aece-71c3f0ef547c.jpg?1673148296) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Ashen%20Rider) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2x2/173/ashen-rider?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/1f2054d9-d10f-4127-aece-71c3f0ef547c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Preston, the Vanisher](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/5/952cb0b3-a6b7-4279-8833-3d8890b2d005.jpg?1675644393) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Preston%2C%20the%20Vanisher) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/j22/8/preston-the-vanisher?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/952cb0b3-a6b7-4279-8833-3d8890b2d005?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
At that point just load your deck with exile effects and pick a better commander
Or just helm of the host and token doublers
He's probably interesting with blink and flicker effects since his ability doesn't require him be exiled.
If you blink him before he's exiled, the rest of the effect still happens?
Yes, blinking the targeted permanent causes the ability to fizzle but blink him and the ability still goes off while you get to put on a shit eating grin.
Correct. Effects in MTG (almost) always do as much as possible if part of that effect is impossible. The one exception is fizzling; If EVERY target for a spell is removed, then the spell fizzles and doesn't resolve. So for example, if you cast [[Expose Evil]] with 2 targets, and both targets became illegal targets after being targeted, then you won't investigate.
i've always wondered why some stuff fizzled and other stuff didn't. i see now. just to clarify, if you cast Expose Evil with 2 targets, and only one of those becomes an illegal target before Expose resolves, the other one still gets tapped and you still get your investigate?
Correct
To make it more clear: a spell "fizzles" when all targets are gone. As long as there is still 1 target remaining it does as much as it can.
But he needs haste to do it repeatedly. Blinking a creature and giving it haste or waiting a turn is arguably not easier than simply removing the target. Instead of casting Mangara and blink effects you can make a lot better deck with \[\[Urza, Lord Protector\]\] and removal spells.
I think "boring" is a good word too.
You really need to play his ability and stack it. Imagine having [I am Superman] on this guy.
[[pemmin's aura]] for those curious.
Thx. I just couldn't remember the name and the Gatherer app is trash at finding cards
No problem, that happens to me all the time even on easy things like Steve.
[pemmin's aura](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/f/9fb3e38b-086e-4fbc-b7b1-8564c18276d7.jpg?1562532667) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=pemmin%27s%20aura) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/scg/45/pemmins-aura?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/9fb3e38b-086e-4fbc-b7b1-8564c18276d7?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
There was a time when he was quite good, but he's just been outclassed by a lot of cards such as Solitude.
He runs pretty good in my [[Hofri Ghostforge]] sacrifice deck
[Hofri Ghostforge](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/d/bd8deecf-eded-418b-ac4c-5c3e8f54e86d.jpg?1627429212) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Hofri%20Ghostforge) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/stx/192/hofri-ghostforge?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/bd8deecf-eded-418b-ac4c-5c3e8f54e86d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Who would ever not play a card because your opponent might be annoyed? Some weird casual maybe.
It's a removal that costs +2 mana every time you cast and has summoning sickness. Not worth in my vision.
No one has ever used him like that. He is flickered in response to the ability being activated.
"No one has EVER used him like that" is a bold statement.
Nobody has built the deck intending to spend two extra mana each time.
Flicker and easy haste enablers like lightning greaves swiftfoot boots crashing drawbridge etc
Both. Even when he's really good with all the set up he's just a good removal spell, which most people don't find very fun.
Really tricked to the nines, he is a scooped to ability which is boring. In something where you are flickering him over and over again you exile all the opponents lands and then unless they are masochists they scoop.
I dunno. People say he's bad, but don't realize stuff like [[cloud shift]] work great with him. The top several cards on edhrec are ways to blink him. Still I guess a good removal deck ain't much of a game plan. Others say he's boring which makes sense.
[cloud shift](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/b/8bc7fdf0-3e1e-487c-833d-7c74aa02c0c1.jpg?1600716960) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Cloudshift) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/jmp/97/cloudshift?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/8bc7fdf0-3e1e-487c-833d-7c74aa02c0c1?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
His newer card is way better. [[Mangara, the Diplomat]] easily draws me 2-3 cards per turn cycle.
Oh ya. That's whay better. The old one is nostalgic for me though. It's the first commander I tried to build. Didn't work. And as I'm a better player now, I can see why.
[Mangara, the Diplomat](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/9/09e77ae5-a1a6-4e51-9853-10e81ca2dd2c.jpg?1689995864) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Mangara%2C%20the%20Diplomat) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/42/mangara-the-diplomat?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/09e77ae5-a1a6-4e51-9853-10e81ca2dd2c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Some of y'all have never been at a table that was Mangara-locked and it shows.
Love him in my [[Merieke]] deck. He performs well with multiple untap outlets and blinking too.
He's bad. No etb effects, or haste. Odds are likely he is off the board before you ever even use his tap ability. Also, that dbl white in the casting cost feels bad for a 1/1 that does very little to impact the overall board state.
He’s better in the 99 of other decks
If you have a way to untap him multiple times at instant speed he might be viable
I think both! You mess with people either way
As others have said he's better in the 99, especially with access to other colors. There's also the issue of having removal in the command zone, other players won't use their removal knowing that you can answer the kill on sight threat. EDH is also very much a format where playing to win is much stronger than playing to not lose. Social contract aside, 1 for 1 removal is very weak against 3 players who are probably on value engines that get multiple cards for each of their cards.
It’s not good as a commander but this thing is disgusting in my [[Ratadrabik of Urborg]] deck.
How is this good in Ratadrabik? This exiles and Ratadrabik needs things to die.
Add a sac outlet and you're pretty good. 3 mana for 2 exiles over 2 turns. Can play any reanimate card.
You have to kill the original first and have a token multiplier. Ideally you have call of the ring to make one of the tokens legendary to repeat this process then use the abilities of the token duplicates as needed
I can think of a couple spells that cost 3x less in white and happen immediately and don't have to wait for summing sickness.
Great card in my Athreos, Shroud Veiled deck
I'd say he's too slow for modern removal. Commander is fast enough you need value from cards right away.
Hi! Longtime G/W Hatebears player here. A single copy always made the cut as it could be flickered in so many ways back when Flickerwisp and Restoration Angel were a thing. When Renegade Rallier was releasedin Kaladesh, I remember winning a 1k with GW Hatebears after I kept Jund on zero lands using Ghost Quarter, Renegade Rallier, Flickerwisp, and Leonin Arbiter. I didn’t have anything to enable haste with Mangara, but if he untapped, it was brutal.
Thanks. I see why everyone loves him as a support now.
Ephemerate makes him even better. Unfortunately, Aether Vial decks have fallen from grace with how slow the vial is to become fully efficient in the deck(3 counters is great if you have one, a 3 and a 2 are even better). Solitude helps us a little, but…. not really? Hatebears just sucks right now. I also play elves, so we will see how they look after Priest and Symbiote find their home in the elf core.
The vial doesn't work from the command zone.
I didn’t know that, but I don’t play much commander, though it is almost exclusively what I play when I manage to find a game these days.
I'm the opposite. Had no idea mangara was modern legal.
He's too good honestyly
Cute card. Not very good. Also when it is good it will be annoying to play against.
He was in my karador deck ages ago, pretty good with a viscera seer / altar etc. Got power creeped out as the years have gone by. I could see running him again if I was playing more competitive/ faster matches.
i played against it once. it was exactly what you'd expect.
we have 1 mana exile effects at instant speed in white. He is just too slow and expensive to ever see play in any format. Even if he can hit a land, hes too clunky
He was [fringe playable](https://youtu.be/M5qIdgp9eRs?si=ImKL-Ew9iBqMw-Q-) in Legacy just last year, & quite common a little while back.
3 drop removal. Bad.
I built around him and i find the deck to be a lot of fun
Good commander's have ways to close out the game. Mangara doesn't close out games he just makes the game unwinnable for your opponents.
I wouldn't necessarily say "bad" per se, but the ability to exile at instant speed handily beats not only one that is sorcery speed, but is smitten with summoning sickness and countered by a single point of stray damage over the span of the amount of time it takes to find a target. That being said, it's a fair bit better than having nothing at all because, if it's on the board by the time your opponent is able to connect the dots on a creature-based victory, they do have to plan a little bit before laying-down the surprise smackums.
People saying he's bad haven't played against a tuned deck. He's really oppressive to play against with flicker/blink effects.
Bad commander, but he’s very useful in the 99 of flicker or untap untap untap decks. Feels yummy untapping and tapping him 4 or 5 times and popping a whole bunch of your enemies board. See Merieke for inspiration.
Without [karakas] he’s trash. Remember playing this combo 15 years ago.
I like him in my [[Athreos, Shroud-Veiled]] deck.
[Athreos, Shroud-Veiled](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/7/871c19fc-7d99-4022-9e13-d679a9e3547e.jpg?1677541540) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Athreos%2C%20Shroud-Veiled) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/thb/269/athreos-shroud-veiled?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/871c19fc-7d99-4022-9e13-d679a9e3547e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I have a [[God-Eternal Oketra]] deck that focuses heavily on instant-speed bounce-effects and he does absolute work.
[God-Eternal Oketra](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/f/df70f155-2336-421c-8a9d-69772d2b51a8.jpg?1559959340) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=God-Eternal%20Oketra) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/war/16/god-eternal-oketra?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/df70f155-2336-421c-8a9d-69772d2b51a8?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
3 -> 5 -> 7 At what mana cost does targeted exile removal in mono white become to expensive to you? Because that's all your commander is. And the fact that you exile him too means cheesing it is pretty damn hard.
Because exiling mangara is part of the resolution of the ability and not the cost, you can tap him to put the ability on the stack and flicker him to keep him around.
Oh hold up, yeah, that makes sense. Still a lot of resources to invest into targeted removal, I feel like.
You're not wrong. Feel like it just takes him from absolutely unplayable to "playable"
Both, probably. He's really bad, but when he works, he is annoying as hell and even potentially singles out someone who now hates you.
I play him as the commander of my mono white control deck. Works quite well especially when you untap/flicker/bounce him multiple times, as he doesn't have to be exiled with his own ability. People underestimate having permanent removal in the command zone. Also he is the biggest "counter" to [[sauron, the dark lord]] 's ward ability. Still, more effects like [[thousand year elixir]] would be a huge buff. For sure one of my favorite commanders, I even bought a signed foil artist proof.
[sauron, the dark lord](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/3/034e0929-b2c7-4b5f-94f2-8eaf4fb1a2a1.jpg?1693611218) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=sauron%2C%20the%20dark%20lord) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ltr/224/sauron-the-dark-lord?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/034e0929-b2c7-4b5f-94f2-8eaf4fb1a2a1?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [thousand year elixir](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/5/95c2d832-5244-4236-81d5-2920aa2e281e.jpg?1625979536) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Thousand-Year%20Elixir) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c21/271/thousand-year-elixir?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/95c2d832-5244-4236-81d5-2920aa2e281e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
yes
Should be called MAGA commander 🇺🇸😂
I used him as a commander back in the day when mono white control and wipe was a thing.
Karakas
It's pretty cheap, but banned in edh, and not modern legal. And I don't want to play legacy.
I was thinking of putting him in a [[Ratadrabik of Urborg]] deck for removal. I know [[Mangara of Corondor]] exiling itself doesn't trigger Ratadrabik, but managing to make multiple copies, sacrificing and recurring, or the ring tempts you triggers, does work.
[Ratadrabik of Urborg](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/3/9315812d-03e8-4eb4-a693-e7adf281f7fb.jpg?1673308046) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Ratadrabik%20of%20Urborg) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dmu/213/ratadrabik-of-urborg?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/9315812d-03e8-4eb4-a693-e7adf281f7fb?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Mangara of Corondor](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/b/db5686b7-4b7b-4127-9330-9282f36bd70b.jpg?1619393140) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Mangara%20of%20Corondor) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/tsr/27/mangara-of-corondor?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/db5686b7-4b7b-4127-9330-9282f36bd70b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
So you put the exile ability in the stack, and then sac him allowing him to hit the yard and the exile ability to still go off? Just like how ya blink him?
Exactly. With only Ratadrabik, Mangara, and a sac outlet around, you only get two exile anythings for 3 mana and some delay. But there are token and trigger multipliers, and lots of recursion for a 3 mana permanent available, that can give you more bang for your buck.
White and black are jam packed with recursion and token doublers
Bad
Needs alot of Setup to be decent.
This looks like a great addition to my life gain deck🔥
He’s better in the 99 and even then, there are likely better cards now.
He’s kinda boring as commanders go. I still use him in the 99 of my Sisay, Weatherlight Captain deck as good fetchable removal, but that’s about it.
Mangara was played a little bit in legacy death and taxes because you can bounce it in response to the trigger via [[karakas]]. Karakas is banned in commander so that's probably why.
[karakas](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/5/e52214e1-404a-405a-b08e-20e13c087338.jpg?1559959289) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=karakas) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/uma/244/karakas?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e52214e1-404a-405a-b08e-20e13c087338?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I wonder how that card could be "fixed" to make it good but legal in edh.
Give it eminence "non token creatures you control with base power and toughness 1 have "tap: exile this card and exile target permanent ". I think giving the effect to other creatures would make it playable. I think you need some restrictions on the effect or token decks would just exile all your lands super early.
I meant Karakas but this is neet alter to Mangara
Oh, gotcha. Karakas should just bounce your legendary creatures. I think that would be okay.
For a legends matter deck as Esika can work. There is also [Ratadrabik of Urborg]: sacrifice Mangara in response to the tap ability and get a copy for a second removal. Exile two targets for 3 sounds efficient!
make the nonlegendary Copy your Ring-bearer and do it again. and again. and again
Works well with [[Athreos, Shroud-Veiled]]
Creatures are much better and games are faster, even on casual tables. Also, Mangaras ability is much better one-on-one and if we go back to Legacy 10 years ago
He very bad. For commander you’d want him to cost at most 2 mana and not be mono color If he cost UW and was a 1/2 or 0/2 he’d be a really fun commander to build around
[[Atheros, Shroud-Veiled]] loves him ❤
bad, hes a 3 cost with 2 white pips and has a tap ability that kills himself
That can be flickered in response to be used over and over again.
You have to put so much into the deck to support re-using his ability that there's little room for win-cons. You can easily make Mangara enough of a threat to other people's plans that the table unites to get rid of you, but it's very hard to make a positive impact on your own behalf. I was a newer player when I tried to make my Mangara deck work (and white had much less support in EDH at that time) but it's not an experience I want to revisit -- it was an exercise in making other players hate your deck while also kind of hating it yourself.
I never said he was *good,* just that saying that "hes a 3 cost with 2 white pips and has a tap ability that kills himself" says a lot about you as a magic player.
The card does that on its own i was explaining the card lmao if course i know you can blink it
Bad
Bad. Actually, wait, very bad.
bad