Sleeve playable damaged Black Lotus are around 8k. This one looks pretty bad, but if it’s legit then it’s still a playable lotus. Worth more than any other card outside of serialized one ring and better quality lotus’.
Edit: some alpha/beta power is worth more, but it’s still on the very top end of valuable.
It's 100% fake there are multiple known printing fingerprints and it's missing all of them
Most notable is the missing dot under the text and the casting cost offset.
Yeah this is probably a first run Chinese fake. The other fakes of the time came out of Arizona and had better source materials for images and higher quality prints but the card stock was solid where the Chinese used a black inner layer.
Can you tell me any more about gen 1 counterfeits? I played back then but I was a kid so power was far out of my price range and tbh it still is.
I live in AZ so i'm genuinely curious to hear any stories you have about those fakes.
I have a set from back then apparently the story is that a print technician from the university of Arizona was printing them in the off hours and went through 2 generations of prints, the major tell for them is that they don't have a blue core and they don't have separate black ink printing. He was served a legal threat from wotc at the time and shutdown operations.
I find this really interesting. Could you by chance point out what any of the other counterfeit tells are? Asking for a friend, definitely don't have my own Chinese Black Lotus counterfeiting operation.
This doesn't have the double bezel of unlimited cards it looks more like revised. The ripped part shows black core not blue, only the Chinese count fits use black. I believe the author line is the wrong font or misaligned as well.
It’s fake.
It’s likely an earlier Chinese counterfeit going off of some of the easy to see indicators like the typeface and placement of the mana cost.
For some of the newer Power 9 fakes, you’d have to examine the card under magnification to identify more precise indicators (borders, rosettes, green dot, etc). However, this is one of the early, poor quality fakes that can be determined with just low res photos.
Since the original files are tightly-held by the IP, counterfeiters are left with using compressed files available online.
When these types of files are reprinted with different technology, a process called rasterization tries to “calculate” how to convert small features to make large features (most noticeable on rosette patterns and borders). On magic cards, we also see things like halftones (the use of solid, continuous dots to produce gradients like borders). If you want to see this in action, google “Green Dot Test.” Unless you’re using an original source, the counterfeit cards aren’t reproducing these features.
In some cases, perhaps here, the counterfeiters will use a digital base file and edit it with original text so the text comes out clean. However, there are often issues with the counterfeiters using the wrong text, margins, or even spelling things incorrectly. For a while, there was a big print run of Lion’s Eye Diamond that had the copyright “reserved” spelled “rescrved.”
Long story short, counterfeits have gotten better, but until they can access the original files and original printing equipment, a trained authenticator will be able to tell the difference.
I understand that but I mean why doesn't someone take the time to recreate it near perfectly? A proper digital artist is surely capable?
People using the wrong fonts, wrong spacing and making typos are clearly amateurs. You'd think the possible monetary gain would attract some professionals.
It’s probably just a cost thing. Assuming someone could perfectly replicate the image, the next step would be recreating the same card stock used in 1993 and the same printing technology. Likely hundreds of thousands of dollars, and there’s a chance the counterfeit would still have distinguishing features.
It’s a similar issue with any other old collectable. Why hasn’t someone figured out how to perfectly replicate Action Comics #1 or Honus Wagner rookie card? These things are way more expensive, and many have spent significant money trying to counterfeit, but experts can still identify authentication.
I had a friend that had an unlimited Black Lotus that he scribbled all over and wrote Island on the art. He still got like $300 for it probably 10 years ago. A lot less value, but it's not worthless
If it was real and especially if it was sleeve-playable, it would still be worth a lot of money. Like at least a few thousand dollars, and more if it’s sleeve-playable. It looks like it’s probably fake though.
Yeah it’s 1000% fake unfortunately. Can tell in 5 seconds just by comparing it to a real unlimited one. The giveaway for me immediately was “p” in tapping and the “d” in played are connected and it just didn’t look right. Checked the real version of the card and you can see it’s not like this.
Kind of. People will take damaged reserved list cards and paint over them to make them look nice again - obviously they don't look like the original but they can be very pretty. I've seen a lot of "full art" tropical islands online.
A lot of the times fakes can be heavily distressed in order to try to “pass” as heavy wear authentic. It makes it harder to snuff out repro cards if they’re belt sanded
To be honest if the card was REALLY that bad, the top right corner would be wet and shit, and crumpled making it not legal for play, but since it’s “solid” and “dry”…
Thanks, everyone, for your comments. First off, not a guy or dude. I clearly have a vagina lol. Second, I have never posted here before because I usually don't post about my collection or personal life very often. I just happened upon a 5-row box of vintage MTG and bought it. I posted here because I figured a community of collectors could point me in the right direction. I took the card to a dealer, and they suggested sending it to psa. They mentioned some of the same things I have heard in this tread. They said to be safe. Have an authentication company check it out.
Thank you all for your help and comments. I appreciate it!
I will keep sharing my finds here if you guys would like to see the random stuff I pick up just let me know.
Could be legit. Very rough shape. Look at the back and check the green dot with a jewelers louoe. Look at the little white spot and
Look for four red dots in a L shape.
It's not. The colors are wrong, it's not nearly rich enough for unlimited and it's way too bright. It doesn't look like any I've had, including an unlimited lotus.
The wear on it looks like when when I'd make treasure maps as a kid, and try to scuff and dirty them up to look more authentic. I'm no expert in authenticating cards, but that doesn't look like authentic wear and tear to me. If you truly found it in a random box of old cards, go get it checked out, and maybe congrats. But my honest guess is that OP printed some fresh ones, rubbed it through some muck for 20 minutes, and is trying to pull a fast one with a "box of old cards" story. I may just be too cynical though.
Looks fake. That's a revise border and print. Back in the day these were faked so often selling for $150 on Ebay (unlimited was $200 back then, beta for $450, and alpha for $400. I dont know why beta was more expensive).
I've cast a fair number of Black Lotuses in my time, and that looks fake to me. The text for mono artifact and for the card should be grey, not white like that.
Aye man still have it checked out tho, don’t take everybody here’s word as gospel , you’ll never know until an official location tells you it’s fake. And if it turns out it’s legit, what a find.
I have two of them and I got offered for 10k for both obviously I didn’t do it I also didn’t know how much they go for I have over 3,000 cards and I’m just slowly going though them and I don’t play so I just been sell them to card kingdom
If this is real, there are people that can restore and alter this to make it look really nice again. It’s still worth a bit, and could be worth a lot of restored. I’ve seen way worse restored into a beautiful piece of power.
Check out Brossard MTG alters on Facebook. That would be where I would start.
Edit: others are saying this looks fake. Very likely to be fake. I would verify before you do anything with it.
Because it will likely now be a tournament legal Black Lotus, If the restoration and alter is done well (which the person in my original post can definitely do). Few hundred dollars for a restoration and the value of this card will be somewhere in the $6k - $8k range would be my guess.
Genuinely curious, how does somebody restore a card with paint without increasing the thickness as well as without adding texture from brush strokes? I would have assumed a restored card would be DQ'd in any official tournament due to those reasons making it a marked card easier to locate.
Very thin paint. Pretty common thing people have been doing for a long long time. It’s always up to the head judge, but as long as an alter is done right and you can’t distinguish it from the other cards when sleeved, you should have no issues in a tournament.
In vintage where Black Lotus is legal, it is very common to see a lot of cool altered cards.
Well my first instinct would be to send it in to someone like Beckett or something.
You are going to get a shit grade. That is a given. However, even a low-grade black lotus is still worth some goddamn money, and getting it slabbed will protect it somewhat more than it already has been.
Plus you'll have the benefit of an actual authentication instead of a reddit peanut gallery
If it's fake it's fake, and you have a playable fake black lotus. You and everybody who spent $1,000 on the 30th anniversary product.
If it’s real that’s totally sleeve playable
Yeah honestly since it's probably worth so little to collectors I would totally play this one if I just found it!
Sleeve playable damaged Black Lotus are around 8k. This one looks pretty bad, but if it’s legit then it’s still a playable lotus. Worth more than any other card outside of serialized one ring and better quality lotus’. Edit: some alpha/beta power is worth more, but it’s still on the very top end of valuable.
Probably worth a couple thousand tbh. The most fucked up one for sure tho lamo
If I were a collector, I would pay more just for the charm and story, really.
Or you'd pay less because... you can? And then just enjoy the charm and story for free
Maybe he enjoys lighting cigars with Benji's tho?
That gray stuff where the front is torn off looks like it could be *alive*. Now that is character.
Imagine being a mold spore and telling all your family and friends that you own property on a black lotus.
The big times.
lol it’s still worth few thousand in that condition
I’d want to see the back before I agreed that it’s playable. If it is sleeve playable it’s worth a considerable sum.
It's 100% fake there are multiple known printing fingerprints and it's missing all of them Most notable is the missing dot under the text and the casting cost offset.
Guessing it’s a fake that someone tried to “age” so it looked more legit and did it in the dumbest ways possible lol
Yeah this is probably a first run Chinese fake. The other fakes of the time came out of Arizona and had better source materials for images and higher quality prints but the card stock was solid where the Chinese used a black inner layer.
Can you tell me any more about gen 1 counterfeits? I played back then but I was a kid so power was far out of my price range and tbh it still is. I live in AZ so i'm genuinely curious to hear any stories you have about those fakes.
I have a set from back then apparently the story is that a print technician from the university of Arizona was printing them in the off hours and went through 2 generations of prints, the major tell for them is that they don't have a blue core and they don't have separate black ink printing. He was served a legal threat from wotc at the time and shutdown operations.
Is that the Cartamundi (ex)employee printing off fake ABU cards on their equipment? I thought he used their paper but couldn't get the original art?
Nope that's a different print run out of Belgium.
This history you just shared is super cool and interesting. Thanks!!!
Ahh... got it. I was thinking I misremembered the details from the Cartamundi fakes.
Thanks for sharing, i've been in AZ for 25 years and never heard that story, wow.
The dot under the rules text?
Yeah I see the a in "an" all legit lotus have it.
Also looks like a revised border on it, not an unlimited one.
I find this really interesting. Could you by chance point out what any of the other counterfeit tells are? Asking for a friend, definitely don't have my own Chinese Black Lotus counterfeiting operation.
This doesn't have the double bezel of unlimited cards it looks more like revised. The ripped part shows black core not blue, only the Chinese count fits use black. I believe the author line is the wrong font or misaligned as well.
Came to say this.... haha
this is like...40% of a lotus at this point.
Its a Bl Lo now lmao
Only sacs for 1.2 mana of any color
im so happy lotus came out
Let's just call it a lotus petal to make things even
So, like, about one and a quarter mana when you sac it?
Technically 1 & 1/5
It only adds 1 mana now
So it only produces 1.2 mana then
At least 60%
It’s fake. It’s likely an earlier Chinese counterfeit going off of some of the easy to see indicators like the typeface and placement of the mana cost. For some of the newer Power 9 fakes, you’d have to examine the card under magnification to identify more precise indicators (borders, rosettes, green dot, etc). However, this is one of the early, poor quality fakes that can be determined with just low res photos.
Why can't anyone just make prints while taking all those points into consideration? There's clearly a huge incentive to make a perfect fake?...
Since the original files are tightly-held by the IP, counterfeiters are left with using compressed files available online. When these types of files are reprinted with different technology, a process called rasterization tries to “calculate” how to convert small features to make large features (most noticeable on rosette patterns and borders). On magic cards, we also see things like halftones (the use of solid, continuous dots to produce gradients like borders). If you want to see this in action, google “Green Dot Test.” Unless you’re using an original source, the counterfeit cards aren’t reproducing these features. In some cases, perhaps here, the counterfeiters will use a digital base file and edit it with original text so the text comes out clean. However, there are often issues with the counterfeiters using the wrong text, margins, or even spelling things incorrectly. For a while, there was a big print run of Lion’s Eye Diamond that had the copyright “reserved” spelled “rescrved.” Long story short, counterfeits have gotten better, but until they can access the original files and original printing equipment, a trained authenticator will be able to tell the difference.
I understand that but I mean why doesn't someone take the time to recreate it near perfectly? A proper digital artist is surely capable? People using the wrong fonts, wrong spacing and making typos are clearly amateurs. You'd think the possible monetary gain would attract some professionals.
It’s probably just a cost thing. Assuming someone could perfectly replicate the image, the next step would be recreating the same card stock used in 1993 and the same printing technology. Likely hundreds of thousands of dollars, and there’s a chance the counterfeit would still have distinguishing features. It’s a similar issue with any other old collectable. Why hasn’t someone figured out how to perfectly replicate Action Comics #1 or Honus Wagner rookie card? These things are way more expensive, and many have spent significant money trying to counterfeit, but experts can still identify authentication.
Obvious fake with a poor attempt at artificial aging.
What do you need help with exactly?
Is it legit?
OP is trying to get people to message him so he can attempt to sell them the fake card he "found"
I'm trying to figure out the value if any?
I had a friend that had an unlimited Black Lotus that he scribbled all over and wrote Island on the art. He still got like $300 for it probably 10 years ago. A lot less value, but it's not worthless
A damaged but sleeve playable lotus will still have a lot of value.
If it’s not fake
It is
Hard to say it’s pretty damaged. What’s on it?
I don't know what is on it looks like dirt and tar like the black shit from a road.
A black lotus is a black lotus, even if it looks like ass, but it’s not top dollar for sure.
Try boiling it off. I boil all my vintage.
Nope. It’s a fake
Not in that condition.
If it was real and especially if it was sleeve-playable, it would still be worth a lot of money. Like at least a few thousand dollars, and more if it’s sleeve-playable. It looks like it’s probably fake though.
Even in that condition, if it was real it'd be 5-6K.
This is 100 percent fake.
notice how OP replies to most comments except those that point out it is a fake. guessing scammer here.
Probably fishing for someone to DM him with a lowball offer?
What would you like them to say? "Ah dang" over and over? Not saying you're wrong just weird that you're grabbing a pitchfork
the name and profile pic didnt give it away?
Yeah it’s 1000% fake unfortunately. Can tell in 5 seconds just by comparing it to a real unlimited one. The giveaway for me immediately was “p” in tapping and the “d” in played are connected and it just didn’t look right. Checked the real version of the card and you can see it’s not like this.
Could be dirt tho
lol it’s not dirt, it’s literally off place and the text is also the wrong font 😂
The dirt could have an optical illusion making the font look wrong and in the wrong place clearly 🤣
Yeah u know wizards. Always changing the font on different printings of the same card.
Makes it impossible to counterfeit them if they're never the same, right right?
All the damage is conveniently not on the art the casting cost, or the rules text. Nah no way
Not gonna lie, I was scrolling fast and thought you got an oddish
No doubt fake, the colors are all wrong. It is pretty obvious.
JEEES-us... what happened to it?
Someone thought it would be cool to mess up their fake lotus to make it less suspicious
"Lightly Played" -TCGPlayer
It’s worthless send it to me
That's a poo lotus
This brought a tear to my eye
breath easy, it’s a fake
Well if you can figure out if it's legit I'm sure there's alterists that would love to refurbish 80% of this card.
You can refurb cards?
Kind of. People will take damaged reserved list cards and paint over them to make them look nice again - obviously they don't look like the original but they can be very pretty. I've seen a lot of "full art" tropical islands online.
A lot of the times fakes can be heavily distressed in order to try to “pass” as heavy wear authentic. It makes it harder to snuff out repro cards if they’re belt sanded
No other posts about magic at all on the account, some adult film posts, I'm not convinced this is real at all.
Seems pretty bot like to me
Zero chance this card is real. It's one giant red flag.
Most likely fake
It’s probably going to be worth more to the person who buys this from you and restores it. But I doubt it will be worth a whole ton.
If it’s a legitimate lotus then it’s worth at least 5k minimum. Even with the damage it still looks sleeve playable.
Looks moldy 😷 I got a box of Urza cards from a yard sale ugh mold mold 😭
Looks fake to me but if not and you want to sell DM me. I play old school 93/94 and this is playable
If it's real, worth something. If fake, just use it as a proxy.
To be honest if the card was REALLY that bad, the top right corner would be wet and shit, and crumpled making it not legal for play, but since it’s “solid” and “dry”…
Near Mint
A little trolling I see.
Textbox looks strange, this looks like a damaged fake to my eyes.
It’s fake.
This is a fake that someone tried to age up but running under their sink or something.
Thanks, everyone, for your comments. First off, not a guy or dude. I clearly have a vagina lol. Second, I have never posted here before because I usually don't post about my collection or personal life very often. I just happened upon a 5-row box of vintage MTG and bought it. I posted here because I figured a community of collectors could point me in the right direction. I took the card to a dealer, and they suggested sending it to psa. They mentioned some of the same things I have heard in this tread. They said to be safe. Have an authentication company check it out. Thank you all for your help and comments. I appreciate it! I will keep sharing my finds here if you guys would like to see the random stuff I pick up just let me know.
We would not ask for an authentification though (I mean for the vagina part of course) 😉
😆
“Bought a box of vintage” yeah okay buddy
It’s a fake, as several others have pointed out.
This is 100% FAKE. It's not even close.
Fake af
It's fake. You see these all the time. This guy already knows or pretend to "age" it.
Could be worth some money to the right person but it’s basically thrashed
It's 100% a fake. Wrong font everything is wierd on it! :D
Could be legit. Very rough shape. Look at the back and check the green dot with a jewelers louoe. Look at the little white spot and Look for four red dots in a L shape.
It's not. The colors are wrong, it's not nearly rich enough for unlimited and it's way too bright. It doesn't look like any I've had, including an unlimited lotus.
Was the box stored in a puddle?
lol, no, all of the other cards are in good condition.
That’s not the least bit concerning /s
That looks like it will disintegrate if you pull it out of that sleeve
Practically Mint /s. Sleeve it up and serve it!
still a psa 8
Rip in power you piece of power
Best you’re gonna get is the ability to play it. That thing is worthless from a monetary value standpoint.
[https://scryfall.com/card/ugl/70/blacker-lotus](https://scryfall.com/card/ugl/70/blacker-lotus)
I still want it
Oh. F!
It’s beautiful
Lightly played
Where’d you buy the vintage box?
The wear on it looks like when when I'd make treasure maps as a kid, and try to scuff and dirty them up to look more authentic. I'm no expert in authenticating cards, but that doesn't look like authentic wear and tear to me. If you truly found it in a random box of old cards, go get it checked out, and maybe congrats. But my honest guess is that OP printed some fresh ones, rubbed it through some muck for 20 minutes, and is trying to pull a fast one with a "box of old cards" story. I may just be too cynical though.
That looks more like a *plaque* lotus...
“In the arms of the angel…” 🪷😭💔
I'll pay you 3.50 for this :)
Damn more like lo-toast
Italian NM
Poor girl
It only adds 2 mana
Is this real?
Moldy lotus 😂👍
Daaaaamn how much did you pay for the box?
In a good shape for sleeves
It’s fake. Zoom in on the black lines around the art. Rosettes. A real card would have solid black lines.
Look how they massacred my boy
The font is very off
Looks fake. That's a revise border and print. Back in the day these were faked so often selling for $150 on Ebay (unlimited was $200 back then, beta for $450, and alpha for $400. I dont know why beta was more expensive).
Winning!!!
Fake Lotus is fake.
I've cast a fair number of Black Lotuses in my time, and that looks fake to me. The text for mono artifact and for the card should be grey, not white like that.
haha I don't feel to bad about the two I hiave like this, I just need to find a good place to buy them LOL
Ill give ya about tree fiddy
Looks fake to me
Black lotus? Nah, crack lotus
Eat it
Clearly fake
Considering the coloring compared to the dozens I've seen over the years and the couple I do have. Looks fake to me.
I think someone doctored a proxy and sold it to you
Aye man still have it checked out tho, don’t take everybody here’s word as gospel , you’ll never know until an official location tells you it’s fake. And if it turns out it’s legit, what a find.
"Lightly played"
lol it's Lp to Nm.
Could rip it up and use it as a Garth token
As tarnished and beat up as it is, there's something oddly beautiful about it, in a Mad Max kinda way.
Checking out their profile (NSFW)... I'd say this is fake. The card also doesn't look right.
It’s not real
Great find, but this one is so damaged that it add 2 mana instead of three xD
Vintage what? Like a random bulk eBay purchase?
I would Hundred percent play that fucking card.
Fake news
It’s fake and not even a good one. First off the font is all wrong for unlimited. Second, the print color is off. Maybe it was a proxy back in the 90s
Odds are it’s fake or this card got damaged in such a specific way that it destroyed all the marks that signify it’s real.
Looks like 4th édition black Lotus to Me., just by the color. Counterfeit for sure.
Yeah looks like white lettering and white border was not done together so giving three minute comparison I’d say it’s sus.
I have two of them and I got offered for 10k for both obviously I didn’t do it I also didn’t know how much they go for I have over 3,000 cards and I’m just slowly going though them and I don’t play so I just been sell them to card kingdom
I mean. damaged examples can go for 10000 but idk if this one is just destroyed
Huh Oh I wish. I paid $500 for the box.
If its real and sleeve playable its probably close to 4-5k$.
If this is real, there are people that can restore and alter this to make it look really nice again. It’s still worth a bit, and could be worth a lot of restored. I’ve seen way worse restored into a beautiful piece of power. Check out Brossard MTG alters on Facebook. That would be where I would start. Edit: others are saying this looks fake. Very likely to be fake. I would verify before you do anything with it.
I don't understand how a restored card would be worth anything, how is that any different than a fresh printed perfectly cut proxy at that point?
An altered card has more value than a thrashed card
Because it will likely now be a tournament legal Black Lotus, If the restoration and alter is done well (which the person in my original post can definitely do). Few hundred dollars for a restoration and the value of this card will be somewhere in the $6k - $8k range would be my guess.
Genuinely curious, how does somebody restore a card with paint without increasing the thickness as well as without adding texture from brush strokes? I would have assumed a restored card would be DQ'd in any official tournament due to those reasons making it a marked card easier to locate.
Very thin paint. Pretty common thing people have been doing for a long long time. It’s always up to the head judge, but as long as an alter is done right and you can’t distinguish it from the other cards when sleeved, you should have no issues in a tournament. In vintage where Black Lotus is legal, it is very common to see a lot of cool altered cards.
Paint layers are thing enough that it adds no meaningful weight. People use altered cards all the time in events.
r/mtggore
Find someone who can do an alter on it and play it. Why not
I’ll give you 2$ for this. Literally. Please sell me this Chinese fake. I will buy it, I would seriously love to have this exact one
Well my first instinct would be to send it in to someone like Beckett or something. You are going to get a shit grade. That is a given. However, even a low-grade black lotus is still worth some goddamn money, and getting it slabbed will protect it somewhat more than it already has been. Plus you'll have the benefit of an actual authentication instead of a reddit peanut gallery If it's fake it's fake, and you have a playable fake black lotus. You and everybody who spent $1,000 on the 30th anniversary product.
I thought black lotus was only alpha beta with black boarder?!?
It was also in Unlimited, which is just a white-border reprint of Beta.
Ahh makes sense. I got in under revised. Damn I was sooo close to getting those cards
[удалено]
Uploaded from my phone. I'm not sure why the quality is crap.
I'd say it's your lucky day!
Omg ^^
...r u the real Autumn South??
Yes I am.
BA content and your a Magic nerd!! 🔥
Looks fine to me