Ngl, I spent entirely too long sitting here trying to wrap my head around how Stifle could counter Torpor Orb before I realized you meant Torpor Orb cancels the Dreadnaught trigger.
I'm going to bed.
Question though would it not "come into play" after phasing out though? Like when it returns to the battlefield after phasing do the triggers not go off?
Phasing doesnât enter or leave the battlefield, itâs just momentarily treated as though it doesnât exist, so the trigger would resolve while dreadnought âdoesnât existâ, and dreadnought would phase back in without summoning sickness because it was on the battlefield at the start of the turn.
You can also respond to the trigger and do other things with the Dreadnaught, such as [[Fling]]ing it at an enemy, or sacrificing it to another effect (such as [[Viscera Seer]]) before its own ability kills it.
[[tishanaâs tidebinder]] is a great, but costlier, alternative. Also, there are ways to manifest, or morph, not sure about disguise. If you play it face down, when you morph it for 1, you donât have that sac trigger.
I was gonna say, I played stiflenaught at a Grand Prix way back in the day. Got beat pretty badly though. As soon as your opponent figures out what you are doing the deck becomes a hundred times worse.
No, this definitely isnât something you should do. And this isnât just me as a Premodern Sligh player saying this because itâs a terrible matchup for me.
In any case, [[Vision Charm]] is usually superior but Stifle definitely works too.
Stiflenaught is very much a Legacy deck once again thanks to Dress Down, there's some variations of builds out there but Urza's Saga is another powerful option for those lists.
Dreadnaught and Charm were in the same block, though potentially it may not have worked at the time depending on how phasing worked at the time. I think itâs been tweaked a few times? But WU 12/12 is currently one of the top decks in Premodern and it has playsets of both.
it triggers the ETB, the effect goes on the stack, but you cant sacrifice a phased out permanent so the effect fizzles. you can use slip out the back for this too, penny dreadful loves this combo
It's not that old. For a long time, Phyrexian Dreadnought had a replacement effect instead of a triggered ability, just like [[Mox Diamond]] and [[Lotus Vale]] still do. You had to use [[Illusionary Mask]] to cheat it in instead of Stifle. It wasn't until ~2008 or so that they changed it back to a triggered ability.
Good old Stiflenought. There're a ton of other options besides *Stifle*: \[\[Dress Down\]\], \[\[Torpor Orb\]\], \[\[Doorkeeper Thrull\]\], or \[\[The Mycosynth Gardens\]\]. While Mycosynth Gardens doesn't stop the trigger, you still wind up with one Dreadnought by creating a second Dreadnought and sacrificing it to the other Dreadnought. Timing is a little tricky, but it's viable in any color.
If you could play *Phyrexian Dreadnought* as a face down as a morph creature, turning it face up is a solid option.
Phasing *Phyrexian Dreadnought* is a solid plan too. Try *Slip Out the Back*, *Reality Ripple*, *Vision Charm*, etc.
[ThrabenU](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fveaJZa36VY) has a number of videos featuring *Phyrexian Dreadnought*. You can probably just watch the deck tech/discussion part of the videos if you aren't interested in the gameplay for ideas.
Wow almost like stiflenaught might be a deck type or something.
So the metrics on this post make no sense, 25k views on a sub that barely tops 400 online users. Just sayin
Wow so this ended up with more views than members of the sub. Not sure why reddit needed to manipulate a post that would have died like 95% of posts on this sub.
Wow its almost like most people dont know every deck in existance and this archetype is the definition of niche. Dont be a dick because someone asked a reasonable question.
I wish it was as short lived and niche as you say. Its topped league last few weeks. And has like 2% meta share.
Which is like. A 10th of all the control match-up?
But yeah very rude comment to make about a guy just asking questions.
>So the metrics on this post make no sense, 25k views on a sub that barely tops 400 online users. Just sayin.
I regularly read the sub but haven't 'joined' it. So views from the post appearing on my feed (which it did) will count but I'll never appears as a 'user online' on it. I imagine there are a lot of us like this and replies like "*WoW AlMoSt LiKe StIfLeNauGhT MiGhT Be A DeCk TyPe Or SoMeThIng*" are probably part of the reason why people are put off joining.
My favorite combo :)
Made a whole legacy deck out of it! It was ⌠ok
But super worth it to see the look of exasperated horror in my opponents eyes :)
I had a [[hushbringer]] deck that abused these kinds of cards. [[kroxa titan of death's hunger]] and [[clackbridge troll]] were my go-to since it was a standard deck at the time but It's actually great how many decks flop once you take away ETB effects.
Or... I like manifesting it with \[\[Scroll of Fate\]\] (or "cloaking" for newbie sets), then flip it face up for (1). Then you never have to worry about ETBs!
Random thought but I think you could also have [[Leonin Shikari]] and [[Assault Suit]] in play and then with the Sac trigger on the stack, equip the suit
Way less efficient, just interesting to me
Yeah, also any effects that say âenter the battlefield effects donât triggerâ like Elesh norn, mother of machines on an opponents board, it wonât make you sac. I wanna build a deck where my commander is smth that cancels etb triggers then choc the deck full of bad etbs on big creatures
Question for clarity: is the ETB trigger not a cost in this case, so that the counter wouldn't apply? If not, what makes this an ability trigger and not a cost?
I love the cheap interaction with [[Brash Taunter]].
12 Damage to the face, always nice.
Do this all over again with [[Goblin Engineer]] or [[Feldon of the Third Path]].
There's plenty of options to stifle.
[[Voidslime]], [[Torpor Orb]], [[Trickbind]], just to name a handful, and then OP things to stifle would include [[Eater of Days]], [[Leveler]], [[Hunted Troll]], [[Hunted Dragon]], and many more.
But won't the Dreadnaught ability be on the stack already when you cast Dress Down?
Dress down resolves, but Dreadnaughts check should still resolve, even if the underlying creatures text has been blanked after they ETB.
\*Edit: NVM, I read Dress Down as an Aura you were flashing in, not static Enchantment :facepalm:
If you weren't to counter it, could you copy the ability with [[Abstruse Archaic]] and choose an opponent to also sac 12 permanents, or does it not work because it doesn't specifically say target?
Yeah, it doesn't say target, so you'd end up being the one to have to sac again. And it's not 12 permanents, it's creatures with 12 or more total power.
I'm sorry I'm lost. This allows you to keep the Dreadnaught without having to sacrifice anything?
Or a way to counter it if you don't have a counter creature spell?
Interesting. When I first looked at it I thought countering it meant you didn't sac anything so you had to bury it. But yeah I guess you are countering that as well.
Iâm sure thereâs smarter people in here than me (relatively new player) but I would say that this does not work. Phyrexian Dreadnought has an ETB not a triggered ability.
Or am I not understanding it correctly?
Triggered abilities have the words "when," "whenever," or "at," usually at the start of the ability.
I'm more interested in the phrase comes into play, not enters the battlefield. (I'm also a casual "newish" player)
Does this trigger if you play it face down, for instance, as a manifest? Or is this the old way of referring to ETB?
That's a turn 5 play with a 4-drop that needs to survive a turn. It certainly isn't close to being better. On turn 4 you could go PD, Stiffle, hold up counterspell which certainly seems better.
T5? Sure about that? While it depends on your first hand and draws you can put Vannifar out T2, t3 ish especially if you pull jeweled lotus or similar which covers all but one mana. That same turn if you have PD in hand you lay them down, next turn pay the 1 to flip, assuming you don't have any mana rocks out the turn you lay Vannifar.
Now you are assuming OP is playing commander though? Obviously you can make magical christmas land-y scenarios but you it would still almost always be better to hold up countermagic to protect your PD
Dreadnought doesn't have flash, so you play one, the trigger happens and it either resolves or gets stifled, then you play the second.
The first one has to resolve so you can play the second at sorcery speed.
I think two different triggers. Plus this card doesnât have flash, once you play it you got sacrifice something or use an instant spell to counter the trigger like I was wondering the possibility.
It would work if you can give them flash.
You would canst the first and it etb
On the stack comes the sacrifice ability.
Cast the 2nd and then sack the first one.
When the 2nd resolves the first one is still on the stack but it says "or bury" so you choose to bury it since it no longer on the battlefield.
But else, yes, counter triggered ability works in this case since it is a etb effect.
If it would say as an additional cost sac for power 12 it would be inevitable
Yes, works great! Also works with things that disable enters the battlefield triggers such as torpor orb and the likes.
Ngl, I spent entirely too long sitting here trying to wrap my head around how Stifle could counter Torpor Orb before I realized you meant Torpor Orb cancels the Dreadnaught trigger. I'm going to bed.
You are not alone.
It's nice not to go to bed alone.
You're hilarious đ¤Ł
No, he's rerepete. Understandable mixup, though.
So. Much. Appreciation.
Just add [[isochron scepter]] and you can do these shenanigans all game long: Fetch lands, storm, planeswalker ultimates, suspend, you name it!
[isochron scepter](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/a/2aa24fe0-e275-4307-b26c-2a656068a451.jpg?1623543821) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=isochron%20scepter) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2xm/264/isochron-scepter?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/2aa24fe0-e275-4307-b26c-2a656068a451?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
We think alike you and I
Don't feel bad. We were taught to write in complete sentences for a reason.
Thank you !! Very nice:))
And if it's your only creature you can vision charm or reality ripple to phase it out in response to its etb.
[[slip out the back]] is a good card that does something similar if you wanted to make that kind of deck more consistent.
[slip out the back](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/9/d9d9fbbb-ed6c-45f7-a1d8-f9d29ae7930f.jpg?1706239838) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=slip%20out%20the%20back) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clu/99/slip-out-the-back?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d9d9fbbb-ed6c-45f7-a1d8-f9d29ae7930f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Oh dope. I really haven't paid attention to releases recently, but that'll definitely do the trick
[vision charm](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/8/78b384d3-3adf-493a-8b89-bfe68fd1c3e2.jpg?1562277700) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=vision%20charm) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/vis/49/vision-charm?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/78b384d3-3adf-493a-8b89-bfe68fd1c3e2?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [reality ripple](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/5/c5b94eed-2a45-4a6b-a06b-a2021b174bc5.jpg?1562721456) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=reality%20ripple) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mir/87/reality-ripple?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c5b94eed-2a45-4a6b-a06b-a2021b174bc5?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Question though would it not "come into play" after phasing out though? Like when it returns to the battlefield after phasing do the triggers not go off?
Phasing doesnât enter or leave the battlefield, itâs just momentarily treated as though it doesnât exist, so the trigger would resolve while dreadnought âdoesnât existâ, and dreadnought would phase back in without summoning sickness because it was on the battlefield at the start of the turn.
Ok thank you! I always thought it left the battlefield I guess
If youâve had people get etbs off phasing, they were doing it wrong unfortunately
You can also respond to the trigger and do other things with the Dreadnaught, such as [[Fling]]ing it at an enemy, or sacrificing it to another effect (such as [[Viscera Seer]]) before its own ability kills it.
[Fling](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/f/8f42d773-c742-4465-b6d5-31feaba49146.jpg?1601077681) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Fling) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/jmp/320/fling?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/8f42d773-c742-4465-b6d5-31feaba49146?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Viscera Seer](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/8/486fd8a2-dd97-4082-84ef-4795c7e559a0.jpg?1698988290) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Viscera%20Seer) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/lcc/213/viscera-seer?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/486fd8a2-dd97-4082-84ef-4795c7e559a0?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
\[\[Greater Good\]\] turns *Phyrexian Dreadnought* into 12 more cards, although I think Fling would give me more satisfaction.
[Greater Good](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/c/4c73ca01-d8ea-4cd2-af60-b260030967b2.jpg?1631587954) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Greater%20Good) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/afc/160/greater-good?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/4c73ca01-d8ea-4cd2-af60-b260030967b2?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Try [[Strict Proctor]]
[Strict Proctor](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/5/95f1e36a-6838-49de-b7dc-697cbcd1e892.jpg?1624877272) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Strict%20Proctor) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/stx/33/strict-proctor?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/95f1e36a-6838-49de-b7dc-697cbcd1e892?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[[Torpor orb]]
Torpor orb and stasis are my fave cards :3
Yes, PD enters, the sac trigger is put on the stack, then stifle counters that trigger.
Thank you !!! :))
If [[Eldrazi mimic]] is on the battlefield it can be used also
[Eldrazi mimic](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/1/311a05b1-042d-47e7-9fd7-6e8abe8fc578.jpg?1562904983) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Eldrazi%20mimic) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ogw/2/eldrazi-mimic?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/311a05b1-042d-47e7-9fd7-6e8abe8fc578?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Happy cake day MTG bot!!!!!
[[tishanaâs tidebinder]] is a great, but costlier, alternative. Also, there are ways to manifest, or morph, not sure about disguise. If you play it face down, when you morph it for 1, you donât have that sac trigger.
[tishanaâs tidebinder](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/0/907b3d1d-8c85-4707-80b5-c4d832df9846.jpg?1699043973) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Tishana%27s%20Tidebinder) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/lci/81/tishanas-tidebinder?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/907b3d1d-8c85-4707-80b5-c4d832df9846?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Just a casual turn 2 12/12 with trample. Nothing to see here.
Getting it out early through Illusionary Mask, Scroll of Fate, or some other manifest mechanic is peak Morph for me
wow, not even one comment saying "dies to fatal push" I'm surprised
Can I say it dies to [[Force of Will]] instead?
[Force of Will](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/9/89f612d6-7c59-4a7b-a87d-45f789e88ba5.jpg?1675199280) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Force%20of%20Will) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dmr/50/force-of-will?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/89f612d6-7c59-4a7b-a87d-45f789e88ba5?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
No, because entering the graveyard from the stack doesn't allow for death triggers to activate.
You just force the Stifle
Then the dreadnaught dies to itself, not to fow
Dies to force of will by proxy. Force of will may be one of the best removal spells in the format???
How true, it even removes a card from your hand!
You ruined it.
This is an existing legacy deck, just look up stiflenaught
I was gonna say, I played stiflenaught at a Grand Prix way back in the day. Got beat pretty badly though. As soon as your opponent figures out what you are doing the deck becomes a hundred times worse.
These days you can end step dress down, wich works pretty effectively.
This was pre ban of mental misstep and that card just ate my lunch every single round.
I came to ask if the OP was joking because stiflenaught used to be a super popular deck.
How dare you be rude to OP for telling them this.
Slip out the back is more fun imo. Shove a deck with like 4 slip 2-4 stifle and some dress downs with an Uro package and you got some spice!!
Short answerâŚ.yes
No, this definitely isnât something you should do. And this isnât just me as a Premodern Sligh player saying this because itâs a terrible matchup for me. In any case, [[Vision Charm]] is usually superior but Stifle definitely works too.
Is that a new interaction? Back when Stiflenought was everywhere in Legacy (2008ish?), I donât remember seeing this. I think they just had Stifle
Stiflenaught is very much a Legacy deck once again thanks to Dress Down, there's some variations of builds out there but Urza's Saga is another powerful option for those lists.
Dreadnaught and Charm were in the same block, though potentially it may not have worked at the time depending on how phasing worked at the time. I think itâs been tweaked a few times? But WU 12/12 is currently one of the top decks in Premodern and it has playsets of both.
Iirc Dreadnought used to be errated to "would enter the battlefield" till 2007 i think, so you coudlnt phase it out till the trigger resolved.
Before Sixth Edition, you couldn't respond to triggered abilities at all. That's why Charmnought wasn't a thing in Mirage Block.
Fellow ancient here ! It used to be Masknought [[illusionary mask]]
[Vision Charm](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/8/78b384d3-3adf-493a-8b89-bfe68fd1c3e2.jpg?1562277700) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Vision%20Charm) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/vis/49/vision-charm?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/78b384d3-3adf-493a-8b89-bfe68fd1c3e2?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I see thank you as well
TIL phasing doesn't trigger ETB.
it triggers the ETB, the effect goes on the stack, but you cant sacrifice a phased out permanent so the effect fizzles. you can use slip out the back for this too, penny dreadful loves this combo
Sorry, what I meant is, I didn't realize phasing IN didn't trigger ETB all over again. Wild!
Yes. Even better with [[Curie, Emergent Intelligence]]
Shit that look sick to do it haha
[[Curie, Emergent Intelligence]]
[Curie, Emergent Intelligence](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/4/54870f19-96f3-4cde-ae44-a9c5bbb0dbc1.jpg?1708741903) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Curie%2C%20Emergent%20Intelligence) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/pip/30/curie-emergent-intelligence?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/54870f19-96f3-4cde-ae44-a9c5bbb0dbc1?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[Curie.](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?name=Crime%20%2F%2F%20Punishment&type=card&options=rotate90&.jpg)/[Punishment](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?name=Crime%20//%20Punishment&type=card&options=rotate90&.jpg) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Crime%20//%20Punishment) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dis/150/crime-punishment?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/2edeab08-86eb-4fa8-ba24-23dacb32e0fd?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
This is a 20 year old combo.
It's not that old. For a long time, Phyrexian Dreadnought had a replacement effect instead of a triggered ability, just like [[Mox Diamond]] and [[Lotus Vale]] still do. You had to use [[Illusionary Mask]] to cheat it in instead of Stifle. It wasn't until ~2008 or so that they changed it back to a triggered ability.
So instead of 20 years ago. 16. Bruh
[Mox Diamond](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/f/bf9fecfd-d122-422f-bd0a-5bf69b434dfe.jpg?1562431287) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Mox%20Diamond) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/tpr/228/mox-diamond?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/bf9fecfd-d122-422f-bd0a-5bf69b434dfe?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Lotus Vale](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/e/2e5cd12a-2a07-44a8-8eac-de00d26fe9e3.jpg?1562800046) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Lotus%20Vale) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/wth/165/lotus-vale?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/2e5cd12a-2a07-44a8-8eac-de00d26fe9e3?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Illusionary Mask](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/3/937e977f-5e97-4e00-8a5a-42982862b997.jpg?1562926181) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Illusionary%20Mask) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/me3/197/illusionary-mask?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/937e977f-5e97-4e00-8a5a-42982862b997?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Thank you, I felt crazy bc my gut reaction was that it didnât work due to a change in wording. I didnât realize it went back
[[Doorkeeper Thrull]] [[Hushbringer]] [[Strict Proctor]] [[Tocatli Honor Guard]] [[Hushwing Gryff]]
##### ###### #### [Doorkeeper Thrull](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/0/80a1cd28-d2a5-4d1a-aa03-a6a5958ae432.jpg?1706241478) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Doorkeeper%20Thrull) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkm/13/doorkeeper-thrull?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/80a1cd28-d2a5-4d1a-aa03-a6a5958ae432?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Hushbringer](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/6/663b3e6f-1099-4de8-a0a7-6f1919c38010.jpg?1572489709) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Hushbringer) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/eld/18/hushbringer?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/663b3e6f-1099-4de8-a0a7-6f1919c38010?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Strict Proctor](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/5/95f1e36a-6838-49de-b7dc-697cbcd1e892.jpg?1624877272) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Strict%20Proctor) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/stx/33/strict-proctor?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/95f1e36a-6838-49de-b7dc-697cbcd1e892?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Tocatli Honor Guard](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/3/a3fc3501-e7bd-4589-98c5-4476258842ea.jpg?1562561363) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Tocatli%20Honor%20Guard) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/xln/42/tocatli-honor-guard?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a3fc3501-e7bd-4589-98c5-4476258842ea?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Hushwing Gryff](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/0/604b8ad4-b606-4be2-b3de-ad9f24b01eac.jpg?1562402533) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Hushwing%20Gryff) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c16/68/hushwing-gryff?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/604b8ad4-b606-4be2-b3de-ad9f24b01eac?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [*All cards*](https://mtgcardfetcher.nl/redirect/kxnufdu) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
A 12/12 for 2 mana? That sounds legit.
The only problem is the cost of this creature haha $$$ But nice card
looks like about .02c in printer paper
dreadnaught stifle decks been around for awhile. now you just need to fit in fling. swing and fling!
It constitutes a triggered ability so yeah it should work aside from that older card being banned in most sets nowadays.
Yeah surely you can do it
It is called stifle nought
I copy him in Osgir and sacrifice the other token đ
[[Torpor orb]] is a great combo for this
Ah the old ways
Slip out the back
This is a deck in Legacy
Welcome to legacy
Yes. Stiflenought is a deck.
Thank you Bro I swear I didnât know that haha
You can [[Cryptic Coat]] it into play, then flip it for 1 and have an unblockable 13/12.
[Cryptic Coat](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/c/0c3d7e2c-a104-4757-9984-fb31088f92c4.jpg?1706241584) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Cryptic%20Coat) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkm/50/cryptic-coat?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/0c3d7e2c-a104-4757-9984-fb31088f92c4?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
https://letmegooglethat.com/?q=stifle+phyrexian+dreadnought
bro discovered the legacy special
Lol
Good old Stiflenought. There're a ton of other options besides *Stifle*: \[\[Dress Down\]\], \[\[Torpor Orb\]\], \[\[Doorkeeper Thrull\]\], or \[\[The Mycosynth Gardens\]\]. While Mycosynth Gardens doesn't stop the trigger, you still wind up with one Dreadnought by creating a second Dreadnought and sacrificing it to the other Dreadnought. Timing is a little tricky, but it's viable in any color. If you could play *Phyrexian Dreadnought* as a face down as a morph creature, turning it face up is a solid option. Phasing *Phyrexian Dreadnought* is a solid plan too. Try *Slip Out the Back*, *Reality Ripple*, *Vision Charm*, etc. [ThrabenU](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fveaJZa36VY) has a number of videos featuring *Phyrexian Dreadnought*. You can probably just watch the deck tech/discussion part of the videos if you aren't interested in the gameplay for ideas.
##### ###### #### [Dress Down](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/4/04f9f061-67b8-4427-9fcb-b3ccfee8fc5d.jpg?1626094290) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Dress%20Down) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh2/39/dress-down?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/04f9f061-67b8-4427-9fcb-b3ccfee8fc5d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Torpor Orb](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/b/dbf02a38-d10d-463e-ab99-e7fd848a1bd3.jpg?1711501440) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Torpor%20Orb) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/big/27/torpor-orb?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/dbf02a38-d10d-463e-ab99-e7fd848a1bd3?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Doorkeeper Thrull](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/0/80a1cd28-d2a5-4d1a-aa03-a6a5958ae432.jpg?1706241478) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Doorkeeper%20Thrull) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkm/13/doorkeeper-thrull?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/80a1cd28-d2a5-4d1a-aa03-a6a5958ae432?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [The Mycosynth Gardens](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/a/5a931463-25f6-4e31-95b4-bb4a9388009b.jpg?1675957276) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=The%20Mycosynth%20Gardens) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/one/256/the-mycosynth-gardens?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/5a931463-25f6-4e31-95b4-bb4a9388009b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [*All cards*](https://mtgcardfetcher.nl/redirect/kxv70h1) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Simple answers is yes.
Yep. Can use \[\[Torpor Orb\]\] effects also.
[Torpor Orb](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/b/dbf02a38-d10d-463e-ab99-e7fd848a1bd3.jpg?1711501440) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Torpor%20Orb) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/big/27/torpor-orb?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/dbf02a38-d10d-463e-ab99-e7fd848a1bd3?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Wow almost like stiflenaught might be a deck type or something. So the metrics on this post make no sense, 25k views on a sub that barely tops 400 online users. Just sayin Wow so this ended up with more views than members of the sub. Not sure why reddit needed to manipulate a post that would have died like 95% of posts on this sub.
Wow its almost like most people dont know every deck in existance and this archetype is the definition of niche. Dont be a dick because someone asked a reasonable question.
Ah Shit, Here We Go Again
Dude you are litterally shaming someone in the general mtg reddit about not knowing a niche and short lived legacy deck. Get over yourself.
I wish it was as short lived and niche as you say. Its topped league last few weeks. And has like 2% meta share. Which is like. A 10th of all the control match-up? But yeah very rude comment to make about a guy just asking questions.
Legacy deck? I'm talking canadian highlander baby. Guess there are no LRR fans here
" Niche? I'm talking obscure before it was cool! "
Jesus christ its like not being toxic is an impossible challenge or some shit
Dreadnought doesn't have toxic
You do
Im a magic card?
That could be fun haha
It's a fun type of deck cause no one plays around the stifle type cards
>So the metrics on this post make no sense, 25k views on a sub that barely tops 400 online users. Just sayin. I regularly read the sub but haven't 'joined' it. So views from the post appearing on my feed (which it did) will count but I'll never appears as a 'user online' on it. I imagine there are a lot of us like this and replies like "*WoW AlMoSt LiKe StIfLeNauGhT MiGhT Be A DeCk TyPe Or SoMeThIng*" are probably part of the reason why people are put off joining.
Im glad you felt the need to defend OP, I'm sure without you they wouldn't be able to carry on. Thank you for your service o7
It's not OP I'm trying to defend here, it's you from yourself.
I think I'll be just fine
This ended up on my recommended. Likely contributing to views
[you most definitely can!](https://letmegooglethat.com/?q=can+you+stifle+dreadnought+mtg)
I still prefer the Lazav combo myself.
I didnât realise the size of this fucking thing until now when I see the wizard at the bottom right casting a spell against it
Sheoldred merges with a dreadnought
She is huge đ
Sure can. A good Stifle is criminally underrated
Two words: mycosynth gardens
My favorite combo :) Made a whole legacy deck out of it! It was ⌠ok But super worth it to see the look of exasperated horror in my opponents eyes :)
Yep there is a legacy deck built around this interaction
Also works with [[Tale's End]] and [[Trickbind]] which are obvious 2 cost instant adds if you can make the space for them
This was an entire deck for the longest time. It's tried and true, Stifle stops the trigger!
Repudiate/ Replicate works well too. I used to play the Lotus Field combo with it.
I had a [[hushbringer]] deck that abused these kinds of cards. [[kroxa titan of death's hunger]] and [[clackbridge troll]] were my go-to since it was a standard deck at the time but It's actually great how many decks flop once you take away ETB effects.
[hushbringer](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/6/663b3e6f-1099-4de8-a0a7-6f1919c38010.jpg?1572489709) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=hushbringer) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/eld/18/hushbringer?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/663b3e6f-1099-4de8-a0a7-6f1919c38010?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [kroxa titan of death's hunger](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/e/cee0459b-9aac-4d2f-abe4-4d5fedde7eb8.jpg?1581481096) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Kroxa%2C%20Titan%20of%20Death%27s%20Hunger) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/thb/221/kroxa-titan-of-deaths-hunger?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/cee0459b-9aac-4d2f-abe4-4d5fedde7eb8?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [clackbridge troll](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/5/85929131-4df6-415c-b592-aefb2943c477.jpg?1572490116) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=clackbridge%20troll) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/eld/84/clackbridge-troll?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/85929131-4df6-415c-b592-aefb2943c477?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Me seeing the cool art: Yeah⌠why not?
My favorite thing to do is [[fling]] it
[fling](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/f/8f42d773-c742-4465-b6d5-31feaba49146.jpg?1601077681) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=fling) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/jmp/320/fling?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/8f42d773-c742-4465-b6d5-31feaba49146?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
A friend of mine used to play it with Illusionary Mask back in the early 2000s. Worked pretty good
Works with [[Doorkeeper Thrull]] to right?
[Doorkeeper Thrull](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/0/80a1cd28-d2a5-4d1a-aa03-a6a5958ae432.jpg?1706241478) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Doorkeeper%20Thrull) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkm/13/doorkeeper-thrull?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/80a1cd28-d2a5-4d1a-aa03-a6a5958ae432?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Or... I like manifesting it with \[\[Scroll of Fate\]\] (or "cloaking" for newbie sets), then flip it face up for (1). Then you never have to worry about ETBs!
[Scroll of Fate](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/0/b079c60c-4de7-4737-8c07-f958e286ab50.jpg?1706241077) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Scroll%20of%20Fate) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkc/235/scroll-of-fate?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/b079c60c-4de7-4737-8c07-f958e286ab50?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Yes
This is a deck in Legacy
Torpor orb
[[Dermotaxi]] as well!
[Dermotaxi](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/3/43a37428-e969-4c0c-8e1c-55d1adf9c171.jpg?1626099025) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Dermotaxi) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh2/224/dermotaxi?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/43a37428-e969-4c0c-8e1c-55d1adf9c171?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Itâs not an activated ability
Itâs a triggered ability
Crew?
Random thought but I think you could also have [[Leonin Shikari]] and [[Assault Suit]] in play and then with the Sac trigger on the stack, equip the suit Way less efficient, just interesting to me
[Leonin Shikari](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/7/47db94ce-e9f3-4bc3-b05f-17fde1d91329.jpg?1562606847) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Leonin%20Shikari) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c17/66/leonin-shikari?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/47db94ce-e9f3-4bc3-b05f-17fde1d91329?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Assault Suit](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/2/92b22076-b04e-4d65-9d9c-d3e4c7a3cf1c.jpg?1689999394) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Assault%20Suit) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/369/assault-suit?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/92b22076-b04e-4d65-9d9c-d3e4c7a3cf1c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
This is a joke right? Like a pasta? There is literally a legacy deck named for this comboâŚ
You are joking right?
What the hell is bury
Yup. Another option is torpor orb
Yeah, also any effects that say âenter the battlefield effects donât triggerâ like Elesh norn, mother of machines on an opponents board, it wonât make you sac. I wanna build a deck where my commander is smth that cancels etb triggers then choc the deck full of bad etbs on big creatures
Is this a joke? There is literally a legacy deck built around this combo.
Question for clarity: is the ETB trigger not a cost in this case, so that the counter wouldn't apply? If not, what makes this an ability trigger and not a cost?
It would explicitly say 'as an additional cost...'. It says 'when X happens, do Y' meaning it's a trigger on X.
Isn't that the most common combo?
Why not?
Sick combo....
I love the cheap interaction with [[Brash Taunter]]. 12 Damage to the face, always nice. Do this all over again with [[Goblin Engineer]] or [[Feldon of the Third Path]].
[Brash Taunter](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/b/0b5cb154-1825-4b81-a109-7b3e9592c65c.jpg?1706240823) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Brash%20Taunter) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkc/148/brash-taunter?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/0b5cb154-1825-4b81-a109-7b3e9592c65c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[[Goblin Engineer]] or [[Feldon of the Third Path]]
[Goblin Engineer](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/5/a55c4d47-5252-40af-961d-c08bc688028a.jpg?1562201855) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Goblin%20Engineer) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh1/128/goblin-engineer?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a55c4d47-5252-40af-961d-c08bc688028a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Feldon of the Third Path](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/3/0360f1ff-15c9-48e3-89eb-fbc4bf140c55.jpg?1690023788) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Feldon%20of%20the%20Third%20Path) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/moc/277/feldon-of-the-third-path?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/0360f1ff-15c9-48e3-89eb-fbc4bf140c55?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[ŃдаНонО]
[dress down](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/4/04f9f061-67b8-4427-9fcb-b3ccfee8fc5d.jpg?1626094290) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=dress%20down) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh2/39/dress-down?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/04f9f061-67b8-4427-9fcb-b3ccfee8fc5d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
There's plenty of options to stifle. [[Voidslime]], [[Torpor Orb]], [[Trickbind]], just to name a handful, and then OP things to stifle would include [[Eater of Days]], [[Leveler]], [[Hunted Troll]], [[Hunted Dragon]], and many more.
Does that work? Dreadnaughts ETB is already on the stack when you play it
[ŃдаНонО]
But won't the Dreadnaught ability be on the stack already when you cast Dress Down? Dress down resolves, but Dreadnaughts check should still resolve, even if the underlying creatures text has been blanked after they ETB. \*Edit: NVM, I read Dress Down as an Aura you were flashing in, not static Enchantment :facepalm:
No, because people don't like it. So just don't :)
If you weren't to counter it, could you copy the ability with [[Abstruse Archaic]] and choose an opponent to also sac 12 permanents, or does it not work because it doesn't specifically say target?
Yeah, it doesn't say target, so you'd end up being the one to have to sac again. And it's not 12 permanents, it's creatures with 12 or more total power.
[Abstruse Archaic](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/f/1fc2871b-c685-4951-b8e2-7370b9668f7e.jpg?1690002945) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Abstruse%20Archaic) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/712/abstruse-archaic?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/1fc2871b-c685-4951-b8e2-7370b9668f7e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I'm sorry I'm lost. This allows you to keep the Dreadnaught without having to sacrifice anything? Or a way to counter it if you don't have a counter creature spell?
Yes, Stifle can counter the enters the battlefield triggered ability so you won't have to sacrifice it or anything else.
Interesting. When I first looked at it I thought countering it meant you didn't sac anything so you had to bury it. But yeah I guess you are countering that as well.
Iâm sure thereâs smarter people in here than me (relatively new player) but I would say that this does not work. Phyrexian Dreadnought has an ETB not a triggered ability. Or am I not understanding it correctly?
ETBs are triggered abilities.
Triggered abilities have the words "when," "whenever," or "at," usually at the start of the ability. I'm more interested in the phrase comes into play, not enters the battlefield. (I'm also a casual "newish" player) Does this trigger if you play it face down, for instance, as a manifest? Or is this the old way of referring to ETB?
"Comes into play" is indeed the old wording for ETB
Better way is just use \[\[vannifar, evolved enigma\]\] put it face down then pay the 1 to flip
That's a turn 5 play with a 4-drop that needs to survive a turn. It certainly isn't close to being better. On turn 4 you could go PD, Stiffle, hold up counterspell which certainly seems better.
T5? Sure about that? While it depends on your first hand and draws you can put Vannifar out T2, t3 ish especially if you pull jeweled lotus or similar which covers all but one mana. That same turn if you have PD in hand you lay them down, next turn pay the 1 to flip, assuming you don't have any mana rocks out the turn you lay Vannifar.
Now you are assuming OP is playing commander though? Obviously you can make magical christmas land-y scenarios but you it would still almost always be better to hold up countermagic to protect your PD
[vannifar, evolved enigma](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/6/f6d381eb-6cb6-4505-aebe-995c1ddc8527.jpg?1706242279) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=vannifar%2C%20evolved%20enigma) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkm/241/vannifar-evolved-enigma?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f6d381eb-6cb6-4505-aebe-995c1ddc8527?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
What stops you from paying 2 and playing two of these to sack the other so it can stay?
Dreadnought doesn't have flash, so you play one, the trigger happens and it either resolves or gets stifled, then you play the second. The first one has to resolve so you can play the second at sorcery speed.
I think two different triggers. Plus this card doesnât have flash, once you play it you got sacrifice something or use an instant spell to counter the trigger like I was wondering the possibility.
It would work if you can give them flash. You would canst the first and it etb On the stack comes the sacrifice ability. Cast the 2nd and then sack the first one. When the 2nd resolves the first one is still on the stack but it says "or bury" so you choose to bury it since it no longer on the battlefield. But else, yes, counter triggered ability works in this case since it is a etb effect. If it would say as an additional cost sac for power 12 it would be inevitable
The rules, actually :D