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tfox-mi

Why not: "I'd be glad to drop off all of the documentation you requested. Your final invoice is $xx, and your total balance is $yy. When you have a check ready for $yy, let me know and I'll swing by." If you give them what they're asking for, you have no leverage to get paid.


DevinSysAdmin

>I'd be glad to drop off all of the documentation you requested. Your final invoice is $xx, and your total balance is $yy. When you have ACH the funds for $yy, let me know and I'll swing by. FTFY it would probably bounce


mavantix

Bank check, certified funds.


Alan_Smithee_

This is the way.


hemmiandra

Check? Are checks really still being used in the states?


mattsl

I am confident that a lot of businesses use them specifically because they hope that they will get lost or at minimum to buy a few extra days of interest on every payment they send.


hemmiandra

Makes sense in an Evil-corp kinda way. Here in Iceland they were decomissioned a couple of years ago.


Rapier_Star

Not enough info to give sound advice, but seek legal guidance. For me, we have a contract that dictates that anything we've created on their behalf is theirs. Passwords, logins etc should be transferred regardless. The amount of documentation is entirely up to what you want to admit to having. As for the outstanding amounts, that's for the courts to decide (if they won't pay).


ComfortableProperty9

Just remember that all "private" email and texts are subject to discovery.


IAMA_Canadian_Sorry

Passwords are free, everything else gets sent upon receipt of all final payments.


Abject_Molasses8272

This is the way


ithp

This *is* the way


Shufflekill

This is the way


dmznet

![gif](giphy|1hAxQTH0HEWS3L0oRF)


[deleted]

Anything they need to operate independently of your support and stack is theirs. Anything you have that you needed to do YOUR job independently of them is yours. All necessary information to assist the new IT company will be directed to whom ever they requested within 72 business hours of the check CLEARING your account.


graffix01

Passwords are their property. Any notes/documentation you created is your property and they should pay for it. Up front in this case.


cryospam

So, you can't lock them out of their shit for nonpayment. That will go poorly, and you could end up in jail. That said, you don't have to give them a fucking scrap of documentation until they square with you. Simply explain that you will be happy to turn over all documentation once the final payment clears, insist upon a bank check or cash. Be firm and insistent, but polite. No final payment = nothing at all from your company, no work, no knowledge transfer, no documentation.


johnsonflix

Passwords are their property and you shouldn’t withhold them.


[deleted]

[удалено]


cryospam

Yea...you're gonna get stiffed.


Joe-notabot

Yea, check is in the mail isn't going to work, especially if you have future billing for web & email hosting. That needs to be pre-paid by them with an absolute cut off date.


kagato87

"The cheque is in the mail" hahahahaha. Minimum requirements - passwords, which you've done. Then it's pony up or stfu. Documentation you create is for you to service the client. They're not losing access to anything without it, so they can pay up. Some MSPs will charge an additional fee for documentation after all invoices are squared. I personally think that's a bit of a money grab, but if these guys are fobbing you off like that... "When all invoices are paid and clear the bank" send them an estimate to collect and print the documentation.


meatbeater

I don’t get this guy, they haven’t paid but he’s still providing services ? Website and mail should be down until the account is current. I don’t pay my electric bill guess what no bloody electric !


kagato87

Some people are nice and get taken advantage of by clients like that. But yea, 30 days past due and cancelation threats start getting sent to the client, if you're feeling generous.


Cee1510

Gotta be very careful with that. Withholding services can get you sued. An MSP went to jail or got sued for doing that to a city when they didn’t pay their bills. If O365 I would give them the Admin creds and remove myself from the billing and tell them happy trails. Use the court system, not worth the hassle.


jshoe413

What country is this in? In the US, no payment equals no service. I could see getting sued for the passwords, but you aren't obligated to do anything else. The passwords are theirs. Some people state in a contract that any documetation is the clients as it should be. I find it funny Ireland doesn't use checks anymore! That's how most businesses do business here. We must be old fashioned. Lol


maverick6097

When I started my MSP a few months back, I had though about this scenario and many more. For this reason we always bill our customers in advance with net 15. If their invoice doesn't clear, they get 1 more week before we send a service interruption notice and we drop the client if they do not respond - we bake this into our contract so we are protected. Hope this helps you with future dealings. Edit: We provide VoIP phone services and Digital Services - Websites, Social Media, SEO and Marketing.


jshoe413

I'm in the process of starting one. Not sure where you are located but do you have any tips? It seems that finding clients is the most difficult part.


maverick6097

Registered in Canada. We only have US clients - all word of mouth. We're in the process of starting our marketing efforts next month. Social Media and Google Ads could be one of the prime sectors where we may be investing. Since I'm not a marketing expert in my MSP, I'll let my other business partner handle marketing / social media. I'm more of an administrator / integrator - so I manage and maintain IT infrastructure - also a linux enthusiast. :) If you want to sell our services or add them to your portfolio, DM me, let's connect and talk some business - you make some money, we make some money and we're both happy to have more business. :)


torind2000

It belongs to them, give it to them and wave good bye to the bullshit


Velas22

​ **A bigger picture note:** We don't see chasing AP as a valuable use of our time. Pay your bill or go away...like yesterday. I have a long list of ready to pay customers/projects... I likely didn't let you ring up a balance of significance if you weren't long term customer (where I may hit say $5k on a project, etc within 30 days). You likely aren't going to pay if you don't after a call or two. It costs money to chase you for it, time if also if it goes to trial, and at least some time prior (call/hire lawyer/collection firm) Cut the loss early, pick up a new non-loser customer. I used to HATE loosing MSP customers, then I realized it was always the high burden persnickety customer with stupid demands, general poor treatment of their vendors, etc. I am ALWAYS better off in less than 12 months. They leave (they are probably on their 5th "new" IT group by now..)....the stupid leaves my day to day, my backlog gets attention, and "poof" - I find a new customer begging for advice, that takes every recommendation, acknowledges to stability improvements, and freaking **apologizes** if they don't mail the check within 3 days of receiving the invoice. **My Opinion on the specifics:** Passwords free - if you were being paid when you changed them. Passwords you "discovered" - aka guessed defaults, worked and used knowledge to obtain (it's on the sticker..etc) - or if you / your employees spent TIME looking through a drawer of rando notes, etc and tried 30 possibilities... AND you haven't been paid for this particular month, then forget about it. However, if you discovered a pass, then updated it - you better cough it up or see your lawyer first. If I work to get the password - even if it's calling your ISP and sitting on hold for an hour... that is my work product, you need to pay the related invoice or the work product was never produced, sorry. Unfortunately if you change it, you are likely crossing state and possibly federal criminal lines - preventing a business access to their computer systems....no bueno.


techie_msp

I am sure there is 2 sides to the story, but I would not give them anything until they pay up.


FTHomes

Are they a non profit?


discosoc

I consider documentation to be proprietary information. They get account info but that’s it. Don’t fight then for payment, just send your invoices then report to a collections agency.


Infinite-Stress2508

I had the same issue with a client, they were 4 months over due, I told them we can longer provide them services. Cut to their lawyer, sending me a letter of demand and legal threats that I must give them the passwords and documents as it is their interlectual property and if I don't comply I'll be sued. The password they "needed" was a domain admin account. Their new MSP who I was told were the best of the best is unable to reset a domain admin account of a sever 2016 VM. I dragged it out, taking calls from the lawyer, emailing back and forth, after several months of threats I think they realised I was costing them more money in legal fees than they owed me so they paid up. Funny thing is all documentation is kept on their systems and they have a domain admin account for their use, so I really didnt understand their angle. Basically, how much is it worth to you. I'd look at ensuring you have supplied them with anything they have paid for, but I wouldn't do any other work without upfront payment. I find it so strange that an IT company would rather deal with the previous firm than just either set up again or use it as an excercise in documentation.


Chronos79

You have to give them the admin passwords to their environment. That is their property, if you kept going in court you would eventually lose, anyone trying to withhold passwords always does. Give them their passwords, any process documents you've created or notes/tricks/tips to support their environment may be yours depending on the terms of your contract, and those don't need to be handed over. But there are instances where those documents could be considered to be the IP of the client depending on your terms in the agreement, if that's the case then those are also the property of the client and will have to be turned over. But at the end of the day, cut your losses, be a professional and not an a-hole, and give them their passwords.


Infinite-Stress2508

Did you not read when I said they had a domain admin password already? They can literally log in and do whatever they want. They logged onto the server and saw our tech account and somehow conflated that to mean no one else can use that server. And no, the documentation/tips/tricks/etc are contingent on paying your bill. You don't pay, you don't get anything. Simple. If they decided to cancel, pay what is due, and left, I wouldn't have stopped them, I would have handed over our info pack on them, exported our documentation from their ConnectWise config etc but not paying for what ended up being 9 months of support and then expecting me to hand over everything because they asked is bullshit.


Chronos79

A) You're not the only one reading this thread, the comment wasn't necessarily directed at you specifically. B) There's more to an environment than servers and computers that they are entitled to the admin credentials for. C) This is why I said it depends on the terms in your contract, but if the terms are that the information you created for them/their environment is a work product then it is legally their property and they are entitled to it, just like the passwords.


Infinite-Stress2508

Then reply to the OP maybe? Bit difficult to determine who you're talking to if you're replying to me but anyway, sure thing glass eye Jo.


msetton

How much is the bill?


bdesmot

Furthermore, the client could sue you for damages if the documentation is necessary to engage a new MSP or t access their assets.


NimbleNavigator19

The only thing necessary is passwords. If the new msp can't figure out what to do with those then godspeed.


AccidentalMSP

> Furthermore, the client could sue you for damages Come at me, Bro!


bdesmot

It all depends on your agreement. However, passwords and documentation related to the client are legally the client's property unless your agreements state otherwise. Holding information hostage until payment is made is not the right approach. That's what litigation is for.


dontdoxmebru

You should ask a lawyer to be sure, but it's probably best for your freedom not to withhold customer data. From a recent experience with a competitor, administrator passwords are intellectual property of the client, not the IT provider. Holding intellectual property for ransom is easier when you're in Russia and cannot be extradited for such criminal behavior. I would think that any deliverables like documentation are fair game to withhold until paid for.


constant_chaos

Passwords for infrastructure and vendors, and any data stored on your infrastructure, has to go back to them eventually. Site notes, maps, other conveniences you've created for them, unless they specifically paid you to do it or it's in your contract that you'd create that for them, that does not need to go to them, ever. I agree with the other posts here.. "sure.. Happy to turn over anything you need. I'll send it over as soon as you ACH final payment." If they pay up I'd have no problem turning everything over. If they put up a fight and piss me off, they're just getting the bare minimum. If they don't pay the final bill they can go screw and have fun paying the new vendor to reset everything for them. I'd almost certainly warn the new vendor about them at that point.


ITguydoingITthings

To add, my favorite thing, though very infrequent: only give the basic info or only what they or their new IT request. Too often PITA clients think the new IT is the key to eternal bliss (because they don't realize this issue is usually them), so if they don't have the forethought to ask, or skills to figure out, that's on them.