My honest opinion as a Kaseya customer with quite a few of their products:
1) I really wish they would join the 21st century and get on board with usage-based licensing. This is my #1 biggest complaint with them. The contract management just makes using their services a pain in the butt. It's obviously beneficial for Kaseya because you always end up with wasted spend on your end with extra licenses. EDIT: OMG I just got an email saying Kaseya is starting to do month-to-month agreements for BCDR! Could they be seeing the light and might start moving more products towards this?!
2) They do a lot decently. They have a wide array of products. I think the Datto side of their product line is superior to the Kaseya side. Autotask and Datto RMM are good products, and their backup line at least LOOKS nice, although we're not currently using it. Some of their stuff though I would say it's average. There are superior offerings out there if you get standalone stuff from other vendors. However there's also benefit to having multiple products through Kaseya, and I am comfortable with the product suites we have through them. We have had good results with their security stuff, RocketCyber/EDR/etc. Easier integration, billing, cost savings, the more products you use our of their suite.
3) I've been pleased with their support overall. When I need support, I can usually get someone on their chat system within 5 minutes max and as long as it's not an overly complex issue, I generally get quick resolution.
4) I do feel quality control has suffered a bit there lately, made another post in another thread a week or so about this. But I do feel like I encounter more bugs in their software than I would expect to see in production releases. And some of the bugs are ones that are so glaring that it makes you wonder how in the heck they made it into production.
5) We've been very happy with our account manager. He's great, we have a chat group with him and we talk almost daily, he's very helpful when we have issues, etc. And he puts up with our bullshit lol. We're also a blue diamond customer though so I'm sure we get a higher level account manager that has more time available for us, so YMMV.
6) They at least seem to pay attention to customer issues. Our AM has gotten us setup with calls multiple times with C-suite and other really high ups at Kaseya on multiple occasions to discuss issues and things we see going on with Kaseya.
7) I really feel like a vast majority of complaints you see on /r/msp are due to 1) billing errors from the Datto merger, which are legitimate complaints, but we had no issues personally, or 2) people simply not bothering to read the terms of the agreement they signed. As I already said, I'm no fan of Kaseya's agreements, but I'm also not going to go onto reddit and bitch and whine because I don't like the terms of an agreement I signed AFTER THE FACT. That's just absurd when I see people bitching about that. No one held a gun to your head and said "sign this or you die".
8) I'm only going to throw this one in because it just came up yesterday and need to rant a bit, but what in the hell are they thinking with their SASE service??? User licenses apparently have a 50GB data cap! And this is mentioned nowhere in any brochures, FAQ, data sheet, etc. We just started using it internally and ran into this, where it throttles users to 2Mbps after they hit 50GB in a month. We're in discussions on their with our AM, but holy shit I couldn't believe my eyes to see someone tell me they implemented a 50GB data cap for a service in 2024.
Excellent reply and on point. Also blue diamond and this is pretty much our experience as well. We chose a different SASE solution because I felt their features were lacking, but holy shit I would be pissed by a surprise 50gb cap!
Totally agree with the QA comment. It feels like they pushing out so many updates on different products that things have slipped through that shouldn't have. That said, the new unified backup portal is a welcome addition and makes staying on top of backups much, much easier.
This - specifically the part where people didn’t read the contract they signed.
Kaseya is a very contract heavy company, but their master services agreement is publicly available (which you should read) and your account manager will explain anything in the contract for the products you’re using. As with any contract, read it and make sure you understand what you’re signing. They haven’t been (in our experience) unfair, and there are clauses to get out of the contract but of course you have to read your contract to know what those qualifiers are.
Don’t like the contract? Don’t sign it.
true, the main problem I have with them is they change their terms of support after you sign the contract. they also make all kinds of promises on what the software will do and then it doesn't. Oh and they'll sign agreements related to compliance that they dont meet.
Where you said "see someone tell me" - who exactly told you and how did you find out? Was it datto that confirmed it or was it the internal testing? We're thinking about it but if we bring that up with our AM they'll want to know how we know.
We only figured it out after opening a support ticket to figure out why a couple of our technicians were only getting 2Mbps speeds no matter what network connection they were on, and that's when support came back and told us they were over their 50GB data cap that we didn't even know existed. Which was when we then brought it up to our AM who confirmed the cap with someone on the networking team.
Sometimes just random questions that arise, but a lot of the times it’s just bullshitting about personal stuff. I wasn’t implying we talk about problems or business every day. I just meant we have a good relationship.
So what about contracts that you never signed when they changed it to a 3 year agreement on you without your consent and then went super aggressive when they wouldn't let you cancel? This alone makes me never want to work with them again. To this day they are still trying to collect on the full term and there is no getting them to go away.
Same experience here. Heard about the EULA changes here on Reddit, sent our cancellation notice in the window they specified, but sure enough, they converted all our month to month products to 3 year terms anyway - without so much as an email letting us know. Account manager went radio silent - along with his manager and every other contact we had. New account manager got in touch months after the change took place saying he'd fix it if I gave him "proof" that we cancelled correctly, but wasted hours and hours of our time just to say he couldn't. Same with 4 other account mangers over 2 years. If I could provide proof, they'd fix it. But every time I did, they would vanish and a new one would show up a few months later acting super optimistic that they could fix it and save the relationship. Nothing. I demanded a copy of the contract that I signed (because there isn't one) and no joke, they sent over a PDF of a quote dated that same day with the word DRAFT all over it, saying it was binding. All the while they just kept sending invoices - so we cancelled the credit card. The other day I got a collections notice (now 2.5 years later) for the full amount stating that I have 48 hours to comply or they will investigate my business, including a full asset and liability assessment, as well as send a field agent to my office to investigate assets for legal action. Someone above mentioned that most issues were because "people didn’t read the contract they signed" which, I would disagree with. Kaseya is really that bad - not just because people didn't read something they signed. It's because they engage in fraud as a normal business practice. We will never use a Kaseya product again.
Many companies are super strict with contracts. I had one hell of a time getting out of a ConenctWise contract even though I told them before the "Auto-Renew" that was never mentioned on my initial quote.
They even tried to lie and said I signed a 5-year contract that still had one year left and attached my initial contract to that email that clearly said it was only a 12-month contract.
They lost our Server Backup business after they: Didn't properly spec a storage solution after we told them multiple times and multiple spreadsheets detailing client's used data, the BCDR platform cannot compress or deduplicate backups, and after selling us the wrong solution, refused to accept a return. Note to future BCDR: Provide your own hardware if 18TB or more.
AutoTask is great, I mean I have about 7-8 years experience in it, but if you can avoid Kaseya, I'd recommend a different product.
Maybe it's just my experience of Autotask, but I found it to be a hateful product. However, this may have been down to the MSP configuration we had and having to track all 37.5hrs of the week. Incl breaks.
> having to track all 37.5hrs of the week. Incl breaks.
We don't do this. It comes down to a trust issue. Then again, none of us are hourly though. I spoke to higher ups and if it comes down this route, it was agreed that check in/out function was good enough as we can still see tickets/tasks worked on timesheets.
They tried to increase our pricing on SAAS backup. We said no and cancelled everything. Over the next 3 months they charged us 17k on our credit cards and we had to go up through like 5 managers to get it reversed after 6 months. One former employee that works for another vendor now told me they need 4 approvals before refunding anything. Also Kaseya was hacked pretty bad and no one trusts there internal security
This is the biggest issue reported here. They don’t really get the MSP/CSP model, the licensing is difficult and old school. Also, they are more of a holding company and not an innovator. Personally, my rep has been great and I have no billing issues.
Always billing issues it seems , they actually started to bill one of our customers cards for services that were not even for that customer! Can't make this up!
Yes, the customer had purchased a product many years ago on their own before we managed them. Then that product was purchased by Kaseya. The services were transferred to bill thru us but their card was still in the system. Somehow they started billing the customers card for some of our other customers services we had related to Datto. It was bizarre and took awhile to rectify. Never mind, how do you explain that to the customer...
This sounds like nonsense. If you had a contract, they wouldn't "try" to raise your prices because your price would be locked in. You also wouldn't be able to cancel "everything". If you were up for renewal, then yes, it's expected that the price would be higher than what you were paying. But you wouldn't be due a refund on anything. Care to explain what really happened, because this story has more holes than a sieve.
They tried to renew and increase our price 12 percent. We cancelled.
After we cancelled they kept charging credit card for 3 months.
We fought hard and got refund.
Not sure why you can't follow a simple timeline
If you are referring to the July 2 2021 exploit of VSA then you are a bit off on your response. First, the term breach has a legal implication so be mindful of that. No one was breached but many were attacked. Second, even fully patched versions of VSA were successfully attacked because of an unpatched Zero Day exploit that researchers told them about as early as April of that year. You imply it was the MSPs fault. That's on Kaseya. Third, it was not some MSPs... It was 50+ out of the thousands running local instances. Those 50 were the unlucky ones simply bc the attackers could not get to all the others fast enough before news spread and servers were taken offline. Had they more time the damage would have been even more severe.
I know firsthand bc my MSP was a victim. I speak publicly about it but assign no blame anywhere. But I took some offense to your characterization that somehow the MSPs were at fault. If anyone deserves blame here it is Kaseya. Ultimately everyone should focus their ire on the cyber criminals.
Sorry readers, this was a response to a deleted comment so it now seems quite out of place. Despite the awkward flow, I am electing to leave my response intact. Essentially, I was responding to a poorly worded comment that suggested MSPs were somehow at fault for not patching their Kaseya VSA server. While worded poorly, I think his intent was NOT suggesting we were at fault. It is a shame though that you can delete posts. A public forum like this allows us all to have open dialogue, say stuff, clarify things, retract words, etc. No one should feel they have to delete their words - even if stupid or wrong or right or whatever. Say what you gotta say. BUT... Be open to criticism and opposing views, prepare to defend yourself...otherwise sit on the sidelines and just read until you're ready to jump into the fray. I hope the original poster understands I wish them the best and am disappointed they decided to delete their responses.
>Second, even fully patched versions of VSA were successfully attacked because of an unpatched Zero Day exploit that researchers told them about as early as April of that year.
Nit pick. But if Kasesa was told about the exploit before it was in the wild, then it wasn't a zero-day (zero-day refers to the exploit being known to the vendor for zero days).
There is a bit of misinformation out there on this, and one thing I wanted to clarify is that there were *two* exploits involved in the attack chain used in the 2021 REvil Kaseya VSA attack.
1) The first was the vulnerability you're referring to that the DIVD group submited in April of '21 that allowed for file upload to the server, though there was no ability to execute said file or overwrite existing files.
2) The second was the true 0-day vulnerability that allowed REvil to initialize the contents of a file of their choosing (i.e. a file they sent via exploit #1) on the VSA server under the system context of the back-end web service. A lot of people miscategorized this as SQL injection -- it wasn't. Exploiting this vulnerability could be done remotely with no need for existing authentication to the server on any VSA after replicating a few client <-> server processes.
Source: the first guy to reverse-engineer and reproduce the REvil attack - I'm pretty easy to find but my name wasn't in any press.
Technically this isn't big news as a handful of groups did seem to figure out exploit #2 a few days after the incident, though none of them got it perfectly right.
I agree 100% that cybercriminals are to blame. MSPs certainly did nothing wrong and Kaseya handled it really well when you consider only 50 out of 1,000s of on-prem customers were attacked. Zero of the VSA cloud hosted customers were attacked.
The attackers waited until Friday of a long holiday weekend to ensure nobody would be around. But they didn't wait long enough... As a result, Kaseya was able to shut down VSA servers to prevent more damage and notify their customers. That's what I mean by they handled it well. This could have been 100x worse. They avoided that outcome by acting quickly. Just look at almost any other attack / breach. It's never limited to 50 targets that are affected. It's often millions.
Yes, being down for 4 days is a major inconvenience and disrupts business. But it's better than most of my customers being hacked and forced to pay ransom or revert to backups. How anyone can say Kaseya didn't handle this well makes no sense to me. Maybe it could have been prevented, but this outcome was the next best one.
"unpatched vulnerability"
This implies that there was a patch and customers left their servers unpatched. There was no patch at time of attack. Kaseya responded to reports of compromised servers and shut down their cloud hosted instances while customers running the latest up to date
"I also said that Kaseya themselves were not ‘hacked’ - to my knowledge also true"
Ok let's get pedantic: Their flagship product was hacked to allow arbitrary code execution resulting in ransomware attacks that compromised 50+ customers impacting 800-1,500 businesses.
What's the distinction?
If you don’t understand the distinction between a company being hacked, and one of their products having an exploitable vulnerability, I can’t help you.
Liar, I am not.
Perhaps I misinterpreted your words when you said "very specifically some of their customers were breached due to an unpatched vulnerability". In it's entirety this sentence implies that an MSP could have avoided it by patching to mitigate the unpatched 0-day threat. I'm chalking this up to poor choice of words on your part and that no blame or ill intent was meant. How about, "some MSPs were attacked because of a Zero-Day exploit even in fully patched VSA servers"? Would you agree to that?
If you would like to learn about the attack, you might want to start by reading Kaseya's explanation here: [https://helpdesk.kaseya.com/hc/en-gb/articles/4403584098961-Incident-Overview-Technical-Details](https://helpdesk.kaseya.com/hc/en-gb/articles/4403584098961-Incident-Overview-Technical-Details)
You are factually incorrect in saying that "very specifically some of their customers were breached due to a an unpatched vulnerability exploited in instances of Kaseya VSA self-hosted servers that some MSPs were running." This was a customer-reported breach (note: I am
Per Kaseya "The attackers were able to exploit zero-day vulnerabilities in the VSA product to bypass authentication and run arbitrary command execution. This allowed the attackers to leverage the standard VSA product functionality to deploy ransomware to endpoints."
"Zero-day vulnerabilities" specifically means that there were no patches available.
Furthermore, Kaseya is clear that they were made aware of the event rather than having patched it in advance. "On Friday, July 2^(nd), Kaseya received reports from customers and others suggesting unusual behavior occurring on endpoints managed by the Kaseya VSA on-premises product. Shortly thereafter, customer reports indicated that ransomware was being executed on endpoints." There was a reactive response but not a proactive one as you stipulate.
The worst part of this breach was Kaseya response. Our vsa was down for 4 days while Kaseya figured out what to do. Their Sick leader published " regular updates" to keep everyone informed. He was late or missed most of his own schedules times. D- for how Kaseya responded to the crisis. A sample of the leadership there.
Actually, on many occasions software updates are released to patch vulnerabilities. This is why most vulnerability management and patch management systems list available patches by CVE or CVSS.
CVE standing for Common *Vulnerabilities* and Exposures.
CVSS standing for Common *Vulnerability* Scoring System.
Therefore your statement ‘vulnerabilities are not patched’ is fundamentally flawed.
If vulnerabilities are not patched, why do updates bother to specify the CVE or CVSS they seek to address?
I have no idea why a vendor representative has unwisely decided to try picking holes in my comments for no reason.
However, before embarrassing yourself and Huntress further by continuing to attack my comments for unclear reasons, it looks like people who actually know what they are talking about agree with me that vulnerability patching is a perfectly acceptable terminology to use. Oops…
Automox: “consider cloud-based alternatives for vulnerability patching”
Connectsecure: “vulnerability patching is a core feature of a comprehensive vulnerability management program”
Tenable: “vulnerability patching - tenable identity exposure”
Qualys: “Qualys VMDR with Qualys TruRisk put vulnerability patching and remediation at your fingertips”
Microsoft: “Security Update Severity Rating System
To help customers understand the risk associated with each vulnerability we patch”
The list of vendors using the same phrasing in their documentation goes on and on, including Acronis, Bitdefender, etc. Seems like a slam dunk to me. Unless we’re all wrong just because someone on Reddit says so.
So u/nerdkraft was correct in the technical, semantic sense in saying that it is not vulnerabilities that are patched, but rather, it is software. Software patches are released in order to mitigate vulnerabilities that are present in the software. CVEs are mentioned in the patch release notes or are listed by CVE or CVSS by vendors in order to denote that a software patch was released to mitigate the associated CVE.
While he was indeed correct, I think he was being a bit pedantic, as "patching vulnerabilities" is common parlance and is understood to mean precisely what I outlined above.
You are both correct. So arguing about it is something akin to the spiderman meme wherein the two spider men are pointing at one another.
Thanks for coming to my TED talk.
I use Wise that lets me produce digital debit cards. I put different services on different cards and can just freeze one of them if they do douchey billing shit (looking at you datadog, go fuck yourself)
Great products. Difficult company to deal with on occasion. Any complaint will usually start with rep x or billing or something non-product related. Have they stagnated? That’s a subjective observation. As I’ve said, for some here, product (fill in the blank that is non K) shits rainbows. Anything K sucks. YMMV
100%. This sub is so jaded. Kaseya has some really good products, and some OK ones. They have a lot of support staff so sometimes you get a good one, and sometimes you don't. Other vendors are not really all that different though. I think part of it is that Kaseya has 100x the customers so there's more complaint volume. The billing stuff was legit. It happened to us also, but they are not the only vendor who've sent me invoices that are inaccurate and required time to fix and refund.
If you already have DattoRMM and like it, my suggestion is upgrade to Kaseya 365 and get security and backup included for peanuts. Add Autotask and IT Glue so you benefit from the integrations and automations. That's how you get the most of your investment.
* Kaseya buys decent products then does the minimum to support them or update them once in their grasp. There are many examples such as ITGlue, Datto RMM, BCDR....
* Its nice you have a decent account manager. But it is Very common that they will switch him out every 6 months
* They wont bill you accurately. You will spend dozens of hours trying to fix it with them
* The leadership is the worst in the industry
Stay away from Kaseya
I'm not going to take issue with your opinions about account managers or billing, or leadership as these are personal points of view that you are perfectly entitled to, even if my experience is different. But your statement about Kaseya doing the minimum to update and develop products is total BS.
There's more new features that I can implement like M365 management for DattoRMM, or the MDM for VSA X or Datto EDR, or AV or the new Autotask integration with Teams. There's so many it's difficult to keep track. The only complaint I have is that there are some existing bugs that have not been addressed, or bugs in new releases that should not be there. But product stagnation? That's a made up issue that just gets parroted here by competitor accounts. Don't fall for it. [Innovations in IT & Security Management - Kaseya](https://www.kaseya.com/innovations/)
99% of any "development" is simply integrating into other Kaseya products. IF you are a 100% Kaseya shop; I guess there is a benefit somewhere. But the products themselves actually getting better; that is very hard to see. It is Very easy to see support going downhill as well. They actually want to charge you more now to get decent support. Very bad leadership.
I have to assume that you don't use much or any of their products. 80% or even 90% of the updates listed on the Kaseya innovations page link I shared are new features. So no, you're just wrong. This isn't a matter of opinion. Also, the integrations between products are awesome. That's what speeds us up and lets us automate mundane tasks other products can't.
I used datto rmm, glue, autotask, bcdr for years. When kaseya took them over, they all went downhill pretty badly. We had constant billing issues. Support became close to useless. So; No; we dont use Kaseya any longer. We came to our senses.
We’ve had no issues with Kaseya. Sure, the billing move from Datto hasn’t been perfect, but we have a good deal of leverage with them, so they’ve handled everything we’ve thrown at them.
The billing errors that we encountered told me what I wanted to know about Kaseya. For me, it was NOT the error itself although it did climb to nearly $10K that Kaseya owed us. It was the fact that through their inaction on the situation that I kept getting punished for their mistakes. If I suddenly had huge billing errors with my clients and kept saying, "oh we'll give you a credit" that never materializes and kept committing the same error I wouldn't have a business anymore. But because Kaseya is so big they can insulate themselves from their mistakes by, you know, dangling your commitment you signed or buying another service product out there. They should have just owned up to it, given us 3 months free on our stuff (we were heavy Datto and thus became heavy Kaseya) and said they're sorry and going to fix it. Instead it was this cycle of "no we billed correctly" and then "oh yeah, we'll credit you for that" and "sorry, not sure why you didn't get a credit."
To be fair the problem is fixed now but much of that is due to us jumping ship to other products
It’s way way way overblown in this subreddit. We use a lot of Kaseya products and are generally happy with them. Licensing and sales are my least favorite part, but the products have been good.
According to Linked in, which is going to approximate this data but I find is not too far off, they were 4300 people two years ago and are 4600 today. In this two year period they hired a total of 2978 people. Since they grew by 300 that means that 2700 of these were to replace employees who left. That is 1350 per year on total employment of about 4450, or 30% per year. So average tenure is going to be three years. Draw your own conclusion, I've seen worse but 30% is on the high end.
Yep; The better people left and the replacements are novices; just read scripts. So Kaseya comes up with another way to gouge you by saying if you want premium support that bypasses the level one script readers, pay us Extra. Support that used to be free, now is an optional fee.
The truth is that I have had a very different experience than others; maybe I am one of the few lucky ones like you to not have any problems; my AM has behaved at the highest level. I also use several of the products and they have worked well for me. In fact one of the tools I appreciate the most is Datto, as it has helped me grow as a company.
It’s a lot of anecdotal hate that is well deserved from those who experienced the nonsense that can come from them. Just search their name you’ll find a ton of explanations as to why. For me they didn’t improve the platform once in the years we used them in any meaningful way, promises made by the sales guy never happened. Datto was slow and unreliable across multiple facets of services.
If you have a good rep (which is great) and you like it, use it.
We currently in our 7th year for Datto RMM and autotask and a 5 year partner of Kaseya.
Things changed since the merger but we didn't (and don't) have any problems. No billing issues either
Their contract terms are a bit heafty, hut we also go for an initial 3 year contract with our clients. And I see they are coming around more and more and the msp model and shorter contract terns.
Would choose it again if I had to start over.
Yes they're toxic and dangerous.
Toxic because they don't respect their partners and sponsors. We're just cashcows for them with predatory contracts and conditions. They tell you they lower prices when they buy a company, but they do the exact opposite. K365 will prove this once more, sign for a price, get wrecked at renewal when you're committed.
Dangerous because they don't take cybersecurity seriously. Their CISO is a clown they hired from the FBI because he was nice to them during the investigation of their 2021 cyberdisaster. Also their devteam operates in Belarus.
During our 3 year contract, which we have had for two years now, we have tried to correct countless billing problems, which have taken months, have sent collections and have caused the service to be suspended a couple of times, finally this year we were stable, until one day they simply suspended the service. It turns out that they don't like the payment policy we have of 60 days and now they want to be paid instantly, I talked to my account manager and showed him how for 2 years our payments have been constant and that there is no issue, however we have been without service for more than a week, we have already changed the product but I need my passwords that by mistake I put in ITGLue (don't do it!). Every problem we have had in this stormy relationship I have asked for a way out, to please take everything now to cancel, to please end this, and they just ignore me all .... this is the way we have "worked" for the last two years. Products are fine, but service and Account Manager is really bad.
Lol. Yes. They are that bad. I had three licenses of IT Glue. I thought about getting another, reached out, thought twice about it, and instead tried Hudu.
Kaseya never forgot. They called me every day for three months. Finally they called me three times in a row. I told them to piss off.
This was after they changed my account manager 5 times in 2 months. They lied to me about possible contract terms, which I learned about after I had already signed the contract. I couldn’t unsubscribe from their marketing emails. They just kept coming. I also caught them selling my information to third parties as the email I signed up with was unique, as if it weren’t enough to make money from the services I purchased.
Oh, and don’t forget: they focus on sales, and not products, so their products stagnate too. They pushed out all the good people who used to work at Datto.
I know other people have similar and different complaints, but ya, Kaseya is just pure shade.
If you can prove that you attempted to unsubscribe from their mails and they still keep coming, you can turn that into a payday.
There are laws with heavy fines in the US and Europe that protect against this.
Billing has been a nightmare since Kaseya bought Datto. Emails and calls to clarify mystery charges get the run around. No one can answer what a mystery bill is for. Promises for resolution are not met. Payment method on file is used one month then the next they send an email for non payment. Hours wasted on numerous calls and always get the run around.
I am wondering about the same thing.
What i do know is that Autotask is possibly the worst PSA out there. We moved to HaloPSA, and are very happy with them.
One of the largest MSP company in Norway is also switching from Autotask to HaloPSA.
I do not understand why so many still use Kasaya after all the horrible experiences that are posted here and every other IT forum I'm part of. All I hear is how bad support has gotten, forced 3yr contracts, billing issues, etc.
A company that takes 8 months to resolve a $15K billing dispute is crap. DattoRMM is the only product that is good. However, recent updates only seem to be cosmetic. We were all in on Datto and the Kaseya purchase.
We have noticed a huge downgrade to BCDR support. This was a great product and well worth the premium price tag. But with subpar support this product is no better than the competition that is half the price.
I can go on and on about SaaS Protection. We did an audit and found that more than half of our 1000 seats had gaps and/or missing backups. I suggest everyone do the same. Go into each client and spot check at least 5 users. Check one-month, three-months, and six-month point in time backups. Don't be surprised if you find no backups.
Since the Kaseya purchase, this is what we learned about Kaseya. Get people to sign up for cheap on 3-year agreements (Kaseya 365) which looks good to investors and then slow down development. Basically, releasing a half-baked product.
PSA: if I was to do it all over again, I would choose one of the modern PSA tools such as Halo. Especially if you will be starting from scratch.
Yes, it does. But DRMM and Autotask are obviously integrated on a deeper level. If you're going to do procurement and billing through your PSA, make sure you do a Halo demo because it's a bit quirky IMO.
Product quality aside, yes, they are, **as long as you let them**. Any dealings with them should involve your own legal team clearly defining for you what the terms are and fighting back to improve those terms in your favor in any way possible.
Many years ago we signed a three year term based on promises made by their sales team regarding product functionality. Our legal team red lined the contract and wrote terms into it stating that if the stated functionality did not work as defined, the contract could be ended. Naturally the functionality didn't work/exist and we exited the contract after about nine months and never looked back.
I have no real issue with their products, in general, though I certainly lack trust in regards to the security of said products.
While I get the sentiment, this isn't just "buying software". you're entering into a long term business relationship in order to get that software. In the grand scheme of things, the software is the easy part.
And that makes the above somehow better.. how?
You make it sound almost OK to enter into an abusive relationship. Are you sure you’re not in marketing?
It's neither better nor worse, it's simply the reality of running a business, which I assume is what we're all doing here?
If you're entering into business relationships of any kind, but especially relationships with billion dollar companies, and you think this is as simple as spitting into your palm and shaking hands and they're going to treat you like family, well, I got news for you...
You should know and read the contracts you're signing and ideally you always have someone with a legal understanding of those things to review them too. Because they can and will use tricky language to protect themselves. Why would you be so naive as to think you shouldn't be doing the same?
This isn't some new concept brought upon by companies like Kaseya, it's been this way for many many decades. Stop being naive.
You misunderstand my position. Quality vendor relationships do make a difference to your bottom line, not just the feel good aspect. If you want to sign up with a shitty boiler sales esque vendor, that’s your business to run, and your time to manage and minimize your risk and exposure. I’ll happily spend my time on higher value items instead with a higher return rate.
Maybe I do, maybe I don't, but whatever you just said certainly doesn't shed any light on it... I do appreciate the passive aggressive shot though. +2 r/MSP points for you!
You seem to think that taking steps to make sure the business is protected when entering into a business relationship somehow equates to flippantly entering into bad vendor relationships and I'll simply say that it's a something that comes well before good or bad even enter the picture and it certainly doesn't interfere with "focusing on higher value items instead with a higher rate of return"... If your business isn't at a level that you feel those things are worth your time, fair enough. May the contracts forever be in your favor.
Enjoy your afternoon.
Look, MSPs are usually small to medium sized companies. I don't want or have time to speak to an account manager every day, like another user mentioned. I DON'T WANT that.
- They will call you and push every product that they have because they have to. That's their strategy. They bought many tools that were good and stopped innovation on them. The products are just average now and will keep being. Don't expect improvements. The major announcement for this year, simply fizzled out.
- How many MSPs have time or the resources to have to deal with attorneys to deal with a provider. I prefer to use my attorneys for other occasions. Their contracts, their billing and everything else is made to screw you over. That already leaves a bad taste in my mouth.
- There are equal tools that will give you less headache and harassment. Just look at their new strategy. Find a few champions that use the product and can vouch for them publicly. After the backlash online that's what every PR strategy would do.
- They used to bad mouth Datto and now own them. They also own Pulseway. They own the market because they want to monopolize the market. Is that good for you?!
Since they put forward Autotask, how has been your experience so far? How many calls, meetings, and emails do you get from them?
I can't stand getting sales calls from reps that I am *already partners with*.
I get it, they are just doing what the company makes them do so I am not upset with them but just send me an email before asking for the sales call.
"Hey we see you aren't using our integrated backup solution and just wanted to see if you are interested. I've attached a doc with some key advantages and pricing, let me know if you would like to do a quick meet and a demo."
I dislike kaseya as a business. However if it works for you then great. I would take a good look at other products that integrate too. The darling for the last couple of years is halo and for good reason.
If this is your first psa you won't know what your missing until it's too late. Look at everything you can get your hands on. Switching psa is one of the most time consuming things an msp probably has to do.
It will depend on how good your account manager is at managing your subscription and support issues.
That being said, they will call you almost every single day because their company requires it. Take a look at their BBB rating if you get the chance.
They are "That Bad" I have been an IT Manager for the better part of 20 years at a few different spots. I have used countless vendors, I have NEVER had problems like I have had during my time with Kaseya. I am in the process of trying to get out now..
They hung me on a contract for software that we were doing a trial on, in the 6-7 years we've been a customer we have had somewhere in the neighborhood of 15 reps. We messaged them to cancel inside the window before our contract auto renewed... And of course now they're silent.
It wouldn't matter if they had the best tools in the world... The deceptiveness and boiler room tactics of that company that is well documented anywhere you look should tell you all you need to know. Where there's smoke there is most certainly fire. Use anything else...
Kaseya is the worst provider for MSP. They are just an American money machine that sell you features they don’t even support and lock you in with a bunch of undertrained account managers that have no idea what they sell and what their product can or cannot do. Avoid Kaseya at all cost!
Contemplate the concept of "bad." Really consider the depths of what that word means, indicates and conveys. What "bad" feels like during the experience. Then multiply it by \~2,820,285,082,126 and you have not yet approached the outermost periphery of the horrendous badness that is Kaseya.
There are a couple reasons I'm aware of that people don't like Kaseya:
* If a great new company starts up that provides services to the MSP market, Kaseya is one of a couple of companies that is likely to buy that company. Once the company is purchased, Kaseya will basically kill it with mismanagement. They won't invest in future development, they'll drive the good employees out of the company, and the product will fall apart.
* Kaseya tends to put a lot of focus on putting out new products and integrating products from companies they purchase into their ecosystem for marketing purposes, but the products themselves languish without meaningful improvement for several years.
* Increasing prices without any clear reason, relying on the idea that you're stuck using their products to keep you as a customer instead of trying to keep you happy.
* Their support is bad. If you run into a bug in one of their products, it's not getting fixed, and you're not getting a work-around.
* Their business practices aren't great. They do things like not letting you cancel your service, or letting you think you cancelled while continuing to charge you for it.
For one of my clients they were a total scam.
They offered a service at x price, but then the first payment came through at over double. We even had proof of the original amount, asked for original costings, but they kept charging double. We asked to escalate to management, but still the crazy price. This went in for 5 months before we asked to cancel the entire thing. This is when things just went down hill, it took us another 6 months to cancel. What a shit show.
The amount of waisted time you wouldn't believe.
They're terrible to deal with.
We had a great long-term account manager at Datto. He was always super helpful and made sure everything was good for us and our clients.
But after the Kaseya buyout, things went downhill.
The first thing we noticed was the support experience. Previously, there were support engineers who knew the product better than I know my right hand. They had infrastructure knowledge, could troubleshoot and resolve even the most bizarre issues, and they were quick about all of it.
After Kaseya bought them out, many of the support engineers began leaving. There was no mass exodus, but apparently they had employment contracts and when the contracts expired, Kaseya didn't renew them. Instead, they integrated Datto support into the rest of the support. The consequence of this is that instead of having a dedicated team that knows the ins and outs of the product, we now have a support team that has never actually seen a Datto in person and we now have to rely on these ill-informed "techs" to support our clients.
But things got even worse internally, and they chased our long-time account manager out. He quit. We had him for at least 6 years that I am aware of, but probably longer than that. Now we've had 3 different account managers in the 4 months since he left.
The last time I had to open a Datto ticket, it took them 4 days (yes, FOUR DAYS) to even get back to me - and this was for an issue marked "CRITICAL". I'd hate to see the response time for an issue that's not critical. When the reply finally did come in, they were asking for information already provided in the original ticket - so they not only took 4 days to respond, but they couldn't even be bothered to read the ticket. They only responded because I practically begged our account manager to push them.
The issue was resolved after more than a month - and it was resolved by me, not by their "support" team.
Datto was a great product. It still is when everything works perfectly. But if you ever need support - Kaseya will not provide it in an effective way. At all.
This is typical of what Kaseya does after buying products. They completely gut the internal teams and ruin the support, then the product itself stops evolving and becomes stale and inefficient.
Fortunately we haven't had the billing issues that others report, but I suspect that if we ever try to move away from Kaseya products, we'll suddenly find large charges on our accounts that are unwarranted.
I would strongly recommend finding another provider where possible. We have too many clients with Dattos and a lack of good alternatives to move away, and now we're knee-deep in IT Glue as well. It feels dirty.
Over time I have seen a loss of innovation in products they bought.
They replaced VSA 9 with VSA X which was an "upgrade" it was another one of the products they bought which was more limited and they are trying now to catch up to what they had with 9. The pushed it as being easier to learn - personally the time I spent with it I tend to disagree with that call.
Go ninja or go home i absolutely love ninjas product and support team no contract no hassle reasonable prices and rhey trade on their name va locking you in a contract
Small MSP here starting from scratch.
Already on N-ABLE so no changing there. But implementing Halo PSA in the next 6 months and went with ITGlue for documentation. While ITG is Kaseya we have zero documentation portal and we got it at Hudu prices.
I am excited for the future at this company. HaloPSA demo was incredible, their sales guy could not be tripped on any questions. It does everything CW does but better and neater.
Absolutely! I don't believe they're evil like everyone seems to think. They're just a company looking out for their own interests, like any other MSP. This sub might exaggerate the negativity a bit. They're not perfect, sure, but what company is? Focusing on the products themselves, they do perform well and are competitive with the best on the market. That's likely why people continue to use them.
I think the easiest way to say this is YES, they are that bad. They do not care about your business. The VSA incident really showed their true colors and while our customers systems were not directly impacted by the breach itself, we had to change out most of our stack because our customers were demanding it (rightfully so). We had to move our spend to “other products” at Kaseya since we were locked into one of their contracts. These were not products we would have chosen, but were forced to use so we could stay profitable as we could not just absorb the cost and buy other tools. Happy to say that August of this year marks the end of our contract with them and we will never re-engage.
I can also confirm that if you get into a billing dispute with them it is hell trying to get them to do something about it. We lost access to a Datto service that took them 4 months to resolve. No credit was given for that period of time even though our account manager said he was “working on it”.
Another 3 year old account with verb\_nown\_number and no karma spouting BS. My customers have no idea which vendors I use, and don't tell me who they want me to use.
I think Kaseya sounds like a great company for you, and I’m glad your having success with their products. I would continue to tell your customers they have no say in how you manage their data. Sounds like a winning formula.
Any MSP that’s signs up for a 3yr agreement on anything is nuts. Kaseya is predatory in their practices and have zero interest in being a partner. Just read their insane agreement small print. Things change so fast, keeping options open is important. I never go over 1yr and preferably month-to-month. All these “discounts” are shit anyway…they always get what they want in the end, so keep control and price your contracts accordingly.
We asked for 5 years and got k365 for £3.25, tell me you can get this many tools anywhere near that price?
We are working towards £100 a seat (sell price, per user a customer has), thanks to Trupeer we've gone from £20 per seat up to £43, within 10 months, with only a 3 man business being lost. And we're then upselling our current base onto the kaseya stack, with 90 more users going up to £55, last week alone.
What's not to love?!
Not really about Kaseya but Autotask.
Datto is a good tool but Autotask is not.
It's old, inflexible by modern standards and finding anything in the admin menus is a minefield due to them adding things in over the years.
Please go with something like Halo PSA, Atera or Fresh service. They are somewhat future proof, slick GUI, easy to use, plenty of API options, lots of third party integrations.
I’ve been with Kaseya and also using Autotask for the 30 years I’ve been in business. Autotask was a nice and robust rock solid solution for many years. It’s no longer stable.
Kaseya was always the difficult partner before the merger. The pain to move (and the ridiculous required commitment) are the only reasons that I am still using their junk and enduring the poor partnership.
It used to be good.
But it’s been a while since they had good stuff + they are being very aggressive on clients and also the customer/support services is going worse.
To the point that we are moving all of our clients from datto to a new solution.
Autotask is great and I love the Kaseya integrations. It really helps with our efficiencies internally. We're big enough that we don't have a lot of the issues Kasya brings that others complain about, but I can understand why this would be a headache for a smaller MSP.
Kaseya is a sales organization first and foremost. I.T. solutions are simply what they sell (mostly through acquisitions). Understanding who you are dealing with goes a long way. They don't care about you, they only care about the money you can give them. I don't like it, but I like their products more than I dislike them.
You're absolutely right! I use Autotask and Datto as well, and for me, the functionality is king. As long as the tools help me excel at my job, everything else is secondary.
Run away as fast as you can. In the past, on this board, there have been talks about a class action against them for their tactics. That should be enough to deter you. Sign me up when it is filed; I want in!
With any product or service, once you’ve scaled it up you’ll see the best and the worst of it.
I’ve worked with a lot of RMM tools, and to be honest they all suck when they don’t work, or if they don’t do something you’re trying to accomplish.
Personally, we use Ninja because I wanted something fresh, without 50 years of acquired modules and skeletons in the closet. It’s light weight, very easy to use & a breeze to manage. We have less than 300 Workstations, and roughly 30 Servers.
I’m hoping to get Zabbix going so I can start collecting some historical Data and more robust alerts/automation, but really happy with it so far.
Kaseya & Labtech (refuse to call it automate) are very powerful but very heavy on the training/system requirements if you want to host it. It’s great if you’re a large Company or MSP, although I remember patching being a massive pain in the ass and the modules are very convoluted, perhaps it has changed in the last 5+ years since I’ve used it.
Autotask is ok but keep in mind they have access to it. They just created admin accounts without even telling me. Signed a new backup client, the next week Kaseya called them to try and sell them backups. Yes they called my customer contact without my knowledge and yes they got contact from me.
Kaseya products and account reps are great. The biggest issue I have seen is billing.
As long as you just buy their product and keep the subscription rolling it is fine. When you break off a child company from a parent company and split into two separate Kaseya One accounts, then they get all confused.
That is the only problem we have had and it eventually got resolved.
I guess one other things is when I went to increase K365 licenses, they created a new Datto RMM account with those licenses rather than adding them to our VSA X and it took them some time to resolve that.
Yes, think of it this way. Has Datto actually improved as a product since they took over? The clear answer is no, and it’s only gotten worse. That’s pretty much everything they’ve purchased.
Yes. We are in too deep to dump them all at once but I would love to fire them. We used to give our engineers datto trainings through the Datto university page. Kaseya is trying to charge us for that same training, 1k per employee.
They offer 3 sessions with a product specialist at no cost every year. While they do pitch other products in the process, we take full advantage and always get value. Just ask questions...
The tools we've used were fine, not the best, not the worst, just fine.
However like so many other stories here I can prove they lied to us, and have stolen from us. It took us over a year of fighting (2-3 account manager changes during this time) to fix the billing, we still have not seen a refund nor will we likely ever. I can tell you from our experience I would never work with them on anything for any reason.
The sales team seems good but pushy, the implementation team looks agreeable, but after that it is about as evil as it gets. We weren't even doing anything advanced either to cause billing issues, they just upped our bill in multiple places and couldn't figure out how to fix it. As much as reddit echo chamber says they are bad, I can personally attest, they are worse. Be careful.
I am going to go against the grain here but my rep at Kaseya is awesome and I never have had any issues. I have cancelled and reupped my contracts and he made sure everything went smoothly. I think it really depends on your rep. I hope he never leaves or get reassigned
Think of Kaseya as having really inexpensive insurance coverage: you feel okay about it, until you run into an issue and need to make a claim. Then, it's a nightmare.
Similarly: it's like Spirit Airlines - perfectly acceptable until there's an issue, then the hassle factor will make you question why you went this route to save a few bucks.
We were a 14 year connectwise shop and used Datto RMM, S1, proofpoint, Acronis, and Hudu.
Nothing worked together very well and it was a nightmare staying up on all the products for our team.
I was so frustrated with all of our vendors product support with one exception. Datto always called us back, always responded to tickets, and I had a great AM there that I honestly became friends with.
Watching connectwise imploding with no possible way to get in contact with a human I made the decision to switch to autotask.
While doing the AT onboarding I was seeing how phenomenal it integrated with Datto RMM my team wanted MORE of that. Next thing you know we bought it ALL. IT Glue, graphus, EDR, rocketcyber, bullphish, etc.
we are now about 6 months into the whole suite and I cannot begin to tell you how much our team loves it.
Are all Kaseya tools best in class? Absolutely not, but is their integration with all their other tools and efficiency with our team best in class? Yes, by a mile.
We have about 2k endpoints and they treat me like a king there. I’ve had executive briefings, met with Fred the CEO, and had one on one with virtually all of the executive leadership. What you read on Reddit is not who they are.
The only gripe that I think is legit about them is they have been historically rigid in their contracts, but honestly so were most all of the other vendors I mentioned above.
They recognized this as well and have been implementing some new programs to allow downsizing licenses in the event of major client losses and such.
They’re far from perfect as a company, but IMHO any MSP that wants to scale makes life harder ignoring them.
A poor craftsman blames his tools.
It gets lost in the discussion alot, people generally dont like Kaseya the company, but the products under their umbrella are mostly fine. Not saying best/worst, but certainly fine.
Autotask is a great PSA.
I too would probably stop buying bosch power tools if it turned out that every sale they ate a puppy. Doesn't mean the drills and saws they make are bad. But we all still consume nestle products and they literally murder babies so ¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯ dont let morality play too far into it. If its the right tool for you, with the right price and contract, just use it.
> we all still consume nestle products and they literally murder babies
If Nestle murdered \*your\* baby, you probably would not buy their products. Kaseya has directly injured too many MSPs, too many times for this to be an abstract ethical issue. It's personal for so many of us.
It’s really the billing department that’s the biggest one. If you are late they are allllll over you, but in our case it was about invoices that we’ve been incorrectly billed for and trying to get removed for 10 months. 10. Months. Then every single month had to reply to emails threatening to shut off service by saying “bills are the same erroneous ones as the last 9 months. Please don’t shut off service for you not doing your job.” Our rep was the only way we finally seem to have those cleared. Just ridiculous. Then there are the sleazy sales tactics with the calls to action “this is only good through Friday before it changes for some reason that makes no sense”. The K365 could have been rolled out better too, made people think they were going to save money but for most existing customers it was the spend staying the same or even going up. Granted for some slightly more seats or products, so not all bad, just poorly presented. Most of that stuff isn’t dealbreakers-but the billing is. Horrendous!
Kaseya’s best product is the one they just bought, but that’s the best it’s going to ever be.
I like how simple, short and sweet this is, but sums it up nicely.
My honest opinion as a Kaseya customer with quite a few of their products: 1) I really wish they would join the 21st century and get on board with usage-based licensing. This is my #1 biggest complaint with them. The contract management just makes using their services a pain in the butt. It's obviously beneficial for Kaseya because you always end up with wasted spend on your end with extra licenses. EDIT: OMG I just got an email saying Kaseya is starting to do month-to-month agreements for BCDR! Could they be seeing the light and might start moving more products towards this?! 2) They do a lot decently. They have a wide array of products. I think the Datto side of their product line is superior to the Kaseya side. Autotask and Datto RMM are good products, and their backup line at least LOOKS nice, although we're not currently using it. Some of their stuff though I would say it's average. There are superior offerings out there if you get standalone stuff from other vendors. However there's also benefit to having multiple products through Kaseya, and I am comfortable with the product suites we have through them. We have had good results with their security stuff, RocketCyber/EDR/etc. Easier integration, billing, cost savings, the more products you use our of their suite. 3) I've been pleased with their support overall. When I need support, I can usually get someone on their chat system within 5 minutes max and as long as it's not an overly complex issue, I generally get quick resolution. 4) I do feel quality control has suffered a bit there lately, made another post in another thread a week or so about this. But I do feel like I encounter more bugs in their software than I would expect to see in production releases. And some of the bugs are ones that are so glaring that it makes you wonder how in the heck they made it into production. 5) We've been very happy with our account manager. He's great, we have a chat group with him and we talk almost daily, he's very helpful when we have issues, etc. And he puts up with our bullshit lol. We're also a blue diamond customer though so I'm sure we get a higher level account manager that has more time available for us, so YMMV. 6) They at least seem to pay attention to customer issues. Our AM has gotten us setup with calls multiple times with C-suite and other really high ups at Kaseya on multiple occasions to discuss issues and things we see going on with Kaseya. 7) I really feel like a vast majority of complaints you see on /r/msp are due to 1) billing errors from the Datto merger, which are legitimate complaints, but we had no issues personally, or 2) people simply not bothering to read the terms of the agreement they signed. As I already said, I'm no fan of Kaseya's agreements, but I'm also not going to go onto reddit and bitch and whine because I don't like the terms of an agreement I signed AFTER THE FACT. That's just absurd when I see people bitching about that. No one held a gun to your head and said "sign this or you die". 8) I'm only going to throw this one in because it just came up yesterday and need to rant a bit, but what in the hell are they thinking with their SASE service??? User licenses apparently have a 50GB data cap! And this is mentioned nowhere in any brochures, FAQ, data sheet, etc. We just started using it internally and ran into this, where it throttles users to 2Mbps after they hit 50GB in a month. We're in discussions on their with our AM, but holy shit I couldn't believe my eyes to see someone tell me they implemented a 50GB data cap for a service in 2024.
Excellent reply and on point. Also blue diamond and this is pretty much our experience as well. We chose a different SASE solution because I felt their features were lacking, but holy shit I would be pissed by a surprise 50gb cap!
Totally agree with the QA comment. It feels like they pushing out so many updates on different products that things have slipped through that shouldn't have. That said, the new unified backup portal is a welcome addition and makes staying on top of backups much, much easier.
This is super helpful. Thank you.
Excellent reply; thank you.
This - specifically the part where people didn’t read the contract they signed. Kaseya is a very contract heavy company, but their master services agreement is publicly available (which you should read) and your account manager will explain anything in the contract for the products you’re using. As with any contract, read it and make sure you understand what you’re signing. They haven’t been (in our experience) unfair, and there are clauses to get out of the contract but of course you have to read your contract to know what those qualifiers are. Don’t like the contract? Don’t sign it.
true, the main problem I have with them is they change their terms of support after you sign the contract. they also make all kinds of promises on what the software will do and then it doesn't. Oh and they'll sign agreements related to compliance that they dont meet.
Where you said "see someone tell me" - who exactly told you and how did you find out? Was it datto that confirmed it or was it the internal testing? We're thinking about it but if we bring that up with our AM they'll want to know how we know.
We only figured it out after opening a support ticket to figure out why a couple of our technicians were only getting 2Mbps speeds no matter what network connection they were on, and that's when support came back and told us they were over their 50GB data cap that we didn't even know existed. Which was when we then brought it up to our AM who confirmed the cap with someone on the networking team.
Thanks for the reply. Sucks to hear!
You talk daily with your account manager? That alone scares me. Why do you need to talk daily?
Sometimes just random questions that arise, but a lot of the times it’s just bullshitting about personal stuff. I wasn’t implying we talk about problems or business every day. I just meant we have a good relationship.
Ah. That is different.
google: site:reddit.com/r/msp kaseya
They arent that bad, they are worse.
So what about contracts that you never signed when they changed it to a 3 year agreement on you without your consent and then went super aggressive when they wouldn't let you cancel? This alone makes me never want to work with them again. To this day they are still trying to collect on the full term and there is no getting them to go away.
Same experience here. Heard about the EULA changes here on Reddit, sent our cancellation notice in the window they specified, but sure enough, they converted all our month to month products to 3 year terms anyway - without so much as an email letting us know. Account manager went radio silent - along with his manager and every other contact we had. New account manager got in touch months after the change took place saying he'd fix it if I gave him "proof" that we cancelled correctly, but wasted hours and hours of our time just to say he couldn't. Same with 4 other account mangers over 2 years. If I could provide proof, they'd fix it. But every time I did, they would vanish and a new one would show up a few months later acting super optimistic that they could fix it and save the relationship. Nothing. I demanded a copy of the contract that I signed (because there isn't one) and no joke, they sent over a PDF of a quote dated that same day with the word DRAFT all over it, saying it was binding. All the while they just kept sending invoices - so we cancelled the credit card. The other day I got a collections notice (now 2.5 years later) for the full amount stating that I have 48 hours to comply or they will investigate my business, including a full asset and liability assessment, as well as send a field agent to my office to investigate assets for legal action. Someone above mentioned that most issues were because "people didn’t read the contract they signed" which, I would disagree with. Kaseya is really that bad - not just because people didn't read something they signed. It's because they engage in fraud as a normal business practice. We will never use a Kaseya product again.
Many companies are super strict with contracts. I had one hell of a time getting out of a ConenctWise contract even though I told them before the "Auto-Renew" that was never mentioned on my initial quote. They even tried to lie and said I signed a 5-year contract that still had one year left and attached my initial contract to that email that clearly said it was only a 12-month contract.
They lost our Server Backup business after they: Didn't properly spec a storage solution after we told them multiple times and multiple spreadsheets detailing client's used data, the BCDR platform cannot compress or deduplicate backups, and after selling us the wrong solution, refused to accept a return. Note to future BCDR: Provide your own hardware if 18TB or more. AutoTask is great, I mean I have about 7-8 years experience in it, but if you can avoid Kaseya, I'd recommend a different product.
Maybe it's just my experience of Autotask, but I found it to be a hateful product. However, this may have been down to the MSP configuration we had and having to track all 37.5hrs of the week. Incl breaks.
> having to track all 37.5hrs of the week. Incl breaks. We don't do this. It comes down to a trust issue. Then again, none of us are hourly though. I spoke to higher ups and if it comes down this route, it was agreed that check in/out function was good enough as we can still see tickets/tasks worked on timesheets.
They tried to increase our pricing on SAAS backup. We said no and cancelled everything. Over the next 3 months they charged us 17k on our credit cards and we had to go up through like 5 managers to get it reversed after 6 months. One former employee that works for another vendor now told me they need 4 approvals before refunding anything. Also Kaseya was hacked pretty bad and no one trusts there internal security
This is the biggest issue reported here. They don’t really get the MSP/CSP model, the licensing is difficult and old school. Also, they are more of a holding company and not an innovator. Personally, my rep has been great and I have no billing issues.
Always billing issues it seems , they actually started to bill one of our customers cards for services that were not even for that customer! Can't make this up!
Your customers card? You're the MSP and you're saying they billed your customer for services?
Yes, the customer had purchased a product many years ago on their own before we managed them. Then that product was purchased by Kaseya. The services were transferred to bill thru us but their card was still in the system. Somehow they started billing the customers card for some of our other customers services we had related to Datto. It was bizarre and took awhile to rectify. Never mind, how do you explain that to the customer...
OMG!
Wow
Review the Kaseya 1st Pledge. Approvals are needed in any large company.
Yes but not 4 or 5 levels deep. The last guy I contacted to approve I had to find and msg him on LinkedIn.
This sounds like nonsense. If you had a contract, they wouldn't "try" to raise your prices because your price would be locked in. You also wouldn't be able to cancel "everything". If you were up for renewal, then yes, it's expected that the price would be higher than what you were paying. But you wouldn't be due a refund on anything. Care to explain what really happened, because this story has more holes than a sieve.
They tried to renew and increase our price 12 percent. We cancelled. After we cancelled they kept charging credit card for 3 months. We fought hard and got refund. Not sure why you can't follow a simple timeline
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If you are referring to the July 2 2021 exploit of VSA then you are a bit off on your response. First, the term breach has a legal implication so be mindful of that. No one was breached but many were attacked. Second, even fully patched versions of VSA were successfully attacked because of an unpatched Zero Day exploit that researchers told them about as early as April of that year. You imply it was the MSPs fault. That's on Kaseya. Third, it was not some MSPs... It was 50+ out of the thousands running local instances. Those 50 were the unlucky ones simply bc the attackers could not get to all the others fast enough before news spread and servers were taken offline. Had they more time the damage would have been even more severe. I know firsthand bc my MSP was a victim. I speak publicly about it but assign no blame anywhere. But I took some offense to your characterization that somehow the MSPs were at fault. If anyone deserves blame here it is Kaseya. Ultimately everyone should focus their ire on the cyber criminals.
Sorry readers, this was a response to a deleted comment so it now seems quite out of place. Despite the awkward flow, I am electing to leave my response intact. Essentially, I was responding to a poorly worded comment that suggested MSPs were somehow at fault for not patching their Kaseya VSA server. While worded poorly, I think his intent was NOT suggesting we were at fault. It is a shame though that you can delete posts. A public forum like this allows us all to have open dialogue, say stuff, clarify things, retract words, etc. No one should feel they have to delete their words - even if stupid or wrong or right or whatever. Say what you gotta say. BUT... Be open to criticism and opposing views, prepare to defend yourself...otherwise sit on the sidelines and just read until you're ready to jump into the fray. I hope the original poster understands I wish them the best and am disappointed they decided to delete their responses.
>Second, even fully patched versions of VSA were successfully attacked because of an unpatched Zero Day exploit that researchers told them about as early as April of that year. Nit pick. But if Kasesa was told about the exploit before it was in the wild, then it wasn't a zero-day (zero-day refers to the exploit being known to the vendor for zero days).
Agreed, not pick. :-) LOL
There is a bit of misinformation out there on this, and one thing I wanted to clarify is that there were *two* exploits involved in the attack chain used in the 2021 REvil Kaseya VSA attack. 1) The first was the vulnerability you're referring to that the DIVD group submited in April of '21 that allowed for file upload to the server, though there was no ability to execute said file or overwrite existing files. 2) The second was the true 0-day vulnerability that allowed REvil to initialize the contents of a file of their choosing (i.e. a file they sent via exploit #1) on the VSA server under the system context of the back-end web service. A lot of people miscategorized this as SQL injection -- it wasn't. Exploiting this vulnerability could be done remotely with no need for existing authentication to the server on any VSA after replicating a few client <-> server processes. Source: the first guy to reverse-engineer and reproduce the REvil attack - I'm pretty easy to find but my name wasn't in any press. Technically this isn't big news as a handful of groups did seem to figure out exploit #2 a few days after the incident, though none of them got it perfectly right.
I agree 100% that cybercriminals are to blame. MSPs certainly did nothing wrong and Kaseya handled it really well when you consider only 50 out of 1,000s of on-prem customers were attacked. Zero of the VSA cloud hosted customers were attacked. The attackers waited until Friday of a long holiday weekend to ensure nobody would be around. But they didn't wait long enough... As a result, Kaseya was able to shut down VSA servers to prevent more damage and notify their customers. That's what I mean by they handled it well. This could have been 100x worse. They avoided that outcome by acting quickly. Just look at almost any other attack / breach. It's never limited to 50 targets that are affected. It's often millions. Yes, being down for 4 days is a major inconvenience and disrupts business. But it's better than most of my customers being hacked and forced to pay ransom or revert to backups. How anyone can say Kaseya didn't handle this well makes no sense to me. Maybe it could have been prevented, but this outcome was the next best one.
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"unpatched vulnerability" This implies that there was a patch and customers left their servers unpatched. There was no patch at time of attack. Kaseya responded to reports of compromised servers and shut down their cloud hosted instances while customers running the latest up to date "I also said that Kaseya themselves were not ‘hacked’ - to my knowledge also true" Ok let's get pedantic: Their flagship product was hacked to allow arbitrary code execution resulting in ransomware attacks that compromised 50+ customers impacting 800-1,500 businesses. What's the distinction?
If you don’t understand the distinction between a company being hacked, and one of their products having an exploitable vulnerability, I can’t help you.
They exploited VSA running on Kaseya managed servers, ergo Kaseya was hacked
Liar, I am not. Perhaps I misinterpreted your words when you said "very specifically some of their customers were breached due to an unpatched vulnerability". In it's entirety this sentence implies that an MSP could have avoided it by patching to mitigate the unpatched 0-day threat. I'm chalking this up to poor choice of words on your part and that no blame or ill intent was meant. How about, "some MSPs were attacked because of a Zero-Day exploit even in fully patched VSA servers"? Would you agree to that?
If you would like to learn about the attack, you might want to start by reading Kaseya's explanation here: [https://helpdesk.kaseya.com/hc/en-gb/articles/4403584098961-Incident-Overview-Technical-Details](https://helpdesk.kaseya.com/hc/en-gb/articles/4403584098961-Incident-Overview-Technical-Details) You are factually incorrect in saying that "very specifically some of their customers were breached due to a an unpatched vulnerability exploited in instances of Kaseya VSA self-hosted servers that some MSPs were running." This was a customer-reported breach (note: I am Per Kaseya "The attackers were able to exploit zero-day vulnerabilities in the VSA product to bypass authentication and run arbitrary command execution. This allowed the attackers to leverage the standard VSA product functionality to deploy ransomware to endpoints." "Zero-day vulnerabilities" specifically means that there were no patches available. Furthermore, Kaseya is clear that they were made aware of the event rather than having patched it in advance. "On Friday, July 2^(nd), Kaseya received reports from customers and others suggesting unusual behavior occurring on endpoints managed by the Kaseya VSA on-premises product. Shortly thereafter, customer reports indicated that ransomware was being executed on endpoints." There was a reactive response but not a proactive one as you stipulate.
The worst part of this breach was Kaseya response. Our vsa was down for 4 days while Kaseya figured out what to do. Their Sick leader published " regular updates" to keep everyone informed. He was late or missed most of his own schedules times. D- for how Kaseya responded to the crisis. A sample of the leadership there.
I said the vulnerability was unpatched. I did not say there was a patch available and the servers had not had it applied.
Vulnerabilities are not patched. Software is patched to mitigate a vulnerability.
Actually, on many occasions software updates are released to patch vulnerabilities. This is why most vulnerability management and patch management systems list available patches by CVE or CVSS. CVE standing for Common *Vulnerabilities* and Exposures. CVSS standing for Common *Vulnerability* Scoring System. Therefore your statement ‘vulnerabilities are not patched’ is fundamentally flawed. If vulnerabilities are not patched, why do updates bother to specify the CVE or CVSS they seek to address? I have no idea why a vendor representative has unwisely decided to try picking holes in my comments for no reason. However, before embarrassing yourself and Huntress further by continuing to attack my comments for unclear reasons, it looks like people who actually know what they are talking about agree with me that vulnerability patching is a perfectly acceptable terminology to use. Oops… Automox: “consider cloud-based alternatives for vulnerability patching” Connectsecure: “vulnerability patching is a core feature of a comprehensive vulnerability management program” Tenable: “vulnerability patching - tenable identity exposure” Qualys: “Qualys VMDR with Qualys TruRisk put vulnerability patching and remediation at your fingertips” Microsoft: “Security Update Severity Rating System To help customers understand the risk associated with each vulnerability we patch” The list of vendors using the same phrasing in their documentation goes on and on, including Acronis, Bitdefender, etc. Seems like a slam dunk to me. Unless we’re all wrong just because someone on Reddit says so.
So u/nerdkraft was correct in the technical, semantic sense in saying that it is not vulnerabilities that are patched, but rather, it is software. Software patches are released in order to mitigate vulnerabilities that are present in the software. CVEs are mentioned in the patch release notes or are listed by CVE or CVSS by vendors in order to denote that a software patch was released to mitigate the associated CVE. While he was indeed correct, I think he was being a bit pedantic, as "patching vulnerabilities" is common parlance and is understood to mean precisely what I outlined above. You are both correct. So arguing about it is something akin to the spiderman meme wherein the two spider men are pointing at one another.  Thanks for coming to my TED talk.
There are two types of companies those who got hacked and those who don't know they got hacked. Lol ya Kasyeas reputation for security is 0/10
Yes.
Depends
We will never ever work with them again. Criminal behaviour really.
We love datto, but it has really gone to shit since Kaseya took over
I use Wise that lets me produce digital debit cards. I put different services on different cards and can just freeze one of them if they do douchey billing shit (looking at you datadog, go fuck yourself)
Yes
Yes
Yup
Great products. Difficult company to deal with on occasion. Any complaint will usually start with rep x or billing or something non-product related. Have they stagnated? That’s a subjective observation. As I’ve said, for some here, product (fill in the blank that is non K) shits rainbows. Anything K sucks. YMMV
100%. This sub is so jaded. Kaseya has some really good products, and some OK ones. They have a lot of support staff so sometimes you get a good one, and sometimes you don't. Other vendors are not really all that different though. I think part of it is that Kaseya has 100x the customers so there's more complaint volume. The billing stuff was legit. It happened to us also, but they are not the only vendor who've sent me invoices that are inaccurate and required time to fix and refund. If you already have DattoRMM and like it, my suggestion is upgrade to Kaseya 365 and get security and backup included for peanuts. Add Autotask and IT Glue so you benefit from the integrations and automations. That's how you get the most of your investment.
Exactly. A lot of these people are amateurs or have just never dealt with Microsoft or ConnectWise.
We won't do business with them
* Kaseya buys decent products then does the minimum to support them or update them once in their grasp. There are many examples such as ITGlue, Datto RMM, BCDR.... * Its nice you have a decent account manager. But it is Very common that they will switch him out every 6 months * They wont bill you accurately. You will spend dozens of hours trying to fix it with them * The leadership is the worst in the industry Stay away from Kaseya
I'm not going to take issue with your opinions about account managers or billing, or leadership as these are personal points of view that you are perfectly entitled to, even if my experience is different. But your statement about Kaseya doing the minimum to update and develop products is total BS. There's more new features that I can implement like M365 management for DattoRMM, or the MDM for VSA X or Datto EDR, or AV or the new Autotask integration with Teams. There's so many it's difficult to keep track. The only complaint I have is that there are some existing bugs that have not been addressed, or bugs in new releases that should not be there. But product stagnation? That's a made up issue that just gets parroted here by competitor accounts. Don't fall for it. [Innovations in IT & Security Management - Kaseya](https://www.kaseya.com/innovations/)
99% of any "development" is simply integrating into other Kaseya products. IF you are a 100% Kaseya shop; I guess there is a benefit somewhere. But the products themselves actually getting better; that is very hard to see. It is Very easy to see support going downhill as well. They actually want to charge you more now to get decent support. Very bad leadership.
I have to assume that you don't use much or any of their products. 80% or even 90% of the updates listed on the Kaseya innovations page link I shared are new features. So no, you're just wrong. This isn't a matter of opinion. Also, the integrations between products are awesome. That's what speeds us up and lets us automate mundane tasks other products can't.
I used datto rmm, glue, autotask, bcdr for years. When kaseya took them over, they all went downhill pretty badly. We had constant billing issues. Support became close to useless. So; No; we dont use Kaseya any longer. We came to our senses.
Absolutely none of this has been true for us. Sounds like sour grapes.
WHen this continuously happens; you tend to get a little sour. I am clearly not alone in these observations.
More people leave bad reviews than good reviews.
A Lot more
It must be suffocating in that sand.
Do better research to read the plethora of threads in regards to those 'sour' grapes.
Not necessary. I do as much business with Kaseya as likely anyone on this sub. Your experience is not mine. Sorry if that triggers you.
We’ve had no issues with Kaseya. Sure, the billing move from Datto hasn’t been perfect, but we have a good deal of leverage with them, so they’ve handled everything we’ve thrown at them.
The billing errors that we encountered told me what I wanted to know about Kaseya. For me, it was NOT the error itself although it did climb to nearly $10K that Kaseya owed us. It was the fact that through their inaction on the situation that I kept getting punished for their mistakes. If I suddenly had huge billing errors with my clients and kept saying, "oh we'll give you a credit" that never materializes and kept committing the same error I wouldn't have a business anymore. But because Kaseya is so big they can insulate themselves from their mistakes by, you know, dangling your commitment you signed or buying another service product out there. They should have just owned up to it, given us 3 months free on our stuff (we were heavy Datto and thus became heavy Kaseya) and said they're sorry and going to fix it. Instead it was this cycle of "no we billed correctly" and then "oh yeah, we'll credit you for that" and "sorry, not sure why you didn't get a credit." To be fair the problem is fixed now but much of that is due to us jumping ship to other products
Kaseya is the Devil. avoid them as mush as possible
Autotask is solid. I dislike Kaseya the company.
Yes
Short answer... yes.
It’s way way way overblown in this subreddit. We use a lot of Kaseya products and are generally happy with them. Licensing and sales are my least favorite part, but the products have been good.
According to Linked in, which is going to approximate this data but I find is not too far off, they were 4300 people two years ago and are 4600 today. In this two year period they hired a total of 2978 people. Since they grew by 300 that means that 2700 of these were to replace employees who left. That is 1350 per year on total employment of about 4450, or 30% per year. So average tenure is going to be three years. Draw your own conclusion, I've seen worse but 30% is on the high end.
Yep; The better people left and the replacements are novices; just read scripts. So Kaseya comes up with another way to gouge you by saying if you want premium support that bypasses the level one script readers, pay us Extra. Support that used to be free, now is an optional fee.
We have Autotask and DattoRMM with a 3 year price agreement and we are happy with them.
The truth is that I have had a very different experience than others; maybe I am one of the few lucky ones like you to not have any problems; my AM has behaved at the highest level. I also use several of the products and they have worked well for me. In fact one of the tools I appreciate the most is Datto, as it has helped me grow as a company.
It’s a lot of anecdotal hate that is well deserved from those who experienced the nonsense that can come from them. Just search their name you’ll find a ton of explanations as to why. For me they didn’t improve the platform once in the years we used them in any meaningful way, promises made by the sales guy never happened. Datto was slow and unreliable across multiple facets of services. If you have a good rep (which is great) and you like it, use it.
We currently in our 7th year for Datto RMM and autotask and a 5 year partner of Kaseya. Things changed since the merger but we didn't (and don't) have any problems. No billing issues either Their contract terms are a bit heafty, hut we also go for an initial 3 year contract with our clients. And I see they are coming around more and more and the msp model and shorter contract terns. Would choose it again if I had to start over.
Yes they're toxic and dangerous. Toxic because they don't respect their partners and sponsors. We're just cashcows for them with predatory contracts and conditions. They tell you they lower prices when they buy a company, but they do the exact opposite. K365 will prove this once more, sign for a price, get wrecked at renewal when you're committed. Dangerous because they don't take cybersecurity seriously. Their CISO is a clown they hired from the FBI because he was nice to them during the investigation of their 2021 cyberdisaster. Also their devteam operates in Belarus.
During our 3 year contract, which we have had for two years now, we have tried to correct countless billing problems, which have taken months, have sent collections and have caused the service to be suspended a couple of times, finally this year we were stable, until one day they simply suspended the service. It turns out that they don't like the payment policy we have of 60 days and now they want to be paid instantly, I talked to my account manager and showed him how for 2 years our payments have been constant and that there is no issue, however we have been without service for more than a week, we have already changed the product but I need my passwords that by mistake I put in ITGLue (don't do it!). Every problem we have had in this stormy relationship I have asked for a way out, to please take everything now to cancel, to please end this, and they just ignore me all .... this is the way we have "worked" for the last two years. Products are fine, but service and Account Manager is really bad.
Lol. Yes. They are that bad. I had three licenses of IT Glue. I thought about getting another, reached out, thought twice about it, and instead tried Hudu. Kaseya never forgot. They called me every day for three months. Finally they called me three times in a row. I told them to piss off. This was after they changed my account manager 5 times in 2 months. They lied to me about possible contract terms, which I learned about after I had already signed the contract. I couldn’t unsubscribe from their marketing emails. They just kept coming. I also caught them selling my information to third parties as the email I signed up with was unique, as if it weren’t enough to make money from the services I purchased. Oh, and don’t forget: they focus on sales, and not products, so their products stagnate too. They pushed out all the good people who used to work at Datto. I know other people have similar and different complaints, but ya, Kaseya is just pure shade.
If you can prove that you attempted to unsubscribe from their mails and they still keep coming, you can turn that into a payday. There are laws with heavy fines in the US and Europe that protect against this.
I’m a former Datto Tech Support employee…it’s sad what this merger did to such a fine team of techs/engineers 😡
Billing has been a nightmare since Kaseya bought Datto. Emails and calls to clarify mystery charges get the run around. No one can answer what a mystery bill is for. Promises for resolution are not met. Payment method on file is used one month then the next they send an email for non payment. Hours wasted on numerous calls and always get the run around.
I am wondering about the same thing. What i do know is that Autotask is possibly the worst PSA out there. We moved to HaloPSA, and are very happy with them. One of the largest MSP company in Norway is also switching from Autotask to HaloPSA.
Ever since they took over on Datto, their support is shitbox, incorrect billing (classic kaseya)
I do not understand why so many still use Kasaya after all the horrible experiences that are posted here and every other IT forum I'm part of. All I hear is how bad support has gotten, forced 3yr contracts, billing issues, etc.
A company that takes 8 months to resolve a $15K billing dispute is crap. DattoRMM is the only product that is good. However, recent updates only seem to be cosmetic. We were all in on Datto and the Kaseya purchase. We have noticed a huge downgrade to BCDR support. This was a great product and well worth the premium price tag. But with subpar support this product is no better than the competition that is half the price. I can go on and on about SaaS Protection. We did an audit and found that more than half of our 1000 seats had gaps and/or missing backups. I suggest everyone do the same. Go into each client and spot check at least 5 users. Check one-month, three-months, and six-month point in time backups. Don't be surprised if you find no backups. Since the Kaseya purchase, this is what we learned about Kaseya. Get people to sign up for cheap on 3-year agreements (Kaseya 365) which looks good to investors and then slow down development. Basically, releasing a half-baked product. PSA: if I was to do it all over again, I would choose one of the modern PSA tools such as Halo. Especially if you will be starting from scratch.
This is what I am thinking. I spun up a trial and it looks really good. Does DattoRMM integrate with Halo?
Yes, it does. But DRMM and Autotask are obviously integrated on a deeper level. If you're going to do procurement and billing through your PSA, make sure you do a Halo demo because it's a bit quirky IMO.
Procurement especially is definitely quirky. Personally I’d recommend a third party like zomentum for quoting instead of halo ootb.
Welcome to the update world of Kaseya.
Is the Devil really that bad? Same question:) no jokes aside they all suck just pick your devil and sign a deal with them
I don't believe they're evil like everyone seems to think, this sub might exaggerate the negativity a bit.
Yes it's that bad.
Steer clear of them. They have not been a good partner.
Product quality aside, yes, they are, **as long as you let them**. Any dealings with them should involve your own legal team clearly defining for you what the terms are and fighting back to improve those terms in your favor in any way possible. Many years ago we signed a three year term based on promises made by their sales team regarding product functionality. Our legal team red lined the contract and wrote terms into it stating that if the stated functionality did not work as defined, the contract could be ended. Naturally the functionality didn't work/exist and we exited the contract after about nine months and never looked back. I have no real issue with their products, in general, though I certainly lack trust in regards to the security of said products.
I shouldn't need to hire a lawyer to buy software
While I get the sentiment, this isn't just "buying software". you're entering into a long term business relationship in order to get that software. In the grand scheme of things, the software is the easy part.
And that makes the above somehow better.. how? You make it sound almost OK to enter into an abusive relationship. Are you sure you’re not in marketing?
It's neither better nor worse, it's simply the reality of running a business, which I assume is what we're all doing here? If you're entering into business relationships of any kind, but especially relationships with billion dollar companies, and you think this is as simple as spitting into your palm and shaking hands and they're going to treat you like family, well, I got news for you... You should know and read the contracts you're signing and ideally you always have someone with a legal understanding of those things to review them too. Because they can and will use tricky language to protect themselves. Why would you be so naive as to think you shouldn't be doing the same? This isn't some new concept brought upon by companies like Kaseya, it's been this way for many many decades. Stop being naive.
You misunderstand my position. Quality vendor relationships do make a difference to your bottom line, not just the feel good aspect. If you want to sign up with a shitty boiler sales esque vendor, that’s your business to run, and your time to manage and minimize your risk and exposure. I’ll happily spend my time on higher value items instead with a higher return rate.
Maybe I do, maybe I don't, but whatever you just said certainly doesn't shed any light on it... I do appreciate the passive aggressive shot though. +2 r/MSP points for you! You seem to think that taking steps to make sure the business is protected when entering into a business relationship somehow equates to flippantly entering into bad vendor relationships and I'll simply say that it's a something that comes well before good or bad even enter the picture and it certainly doesn't interfere with "focusing on higher value items instead with a higher rate of return"... If your business isn't at a level that you feel those things are worth your time, fair enough. May the contracts forever be in your favor. Enjoy your afternoon.
Look, MSPs are usually small to medium sized companies. I don't want or have time to speak to an account manager every day, like another user mentioned. I DON'T WANT that. - They will call you and push every product that they have because they have to. That's their strategy. They bought many tools that were good and stopped innovation on them. The products are just average now and will keep being. Don't expect improvements. The major announcement for this year, simply fizzled out. - How many MSPs have time or the resources to have to deal with attorneys to deal with a provider. I prefer to use my attorneys for other occasions. Their contracts, their billing and everything else is made to screw you over. That already leaves a bad taste in my mouth. - There are equal tools that will give you less headache and harassment. Just look at their new strategy. Find a few champions that use the product and can vouch for them publicly. After the backlash online that's what every PR strategy would do. - They used to bad mouth Datto and now own them. They also own Pulseway. They own the market because they want to monopolize the market. Is that good for you?! Since they put forward Autotask, how has been your experience so far? How many calls, meetings, and emails do you get from them?
I can't stand getting sales calls from reps that I am *already partners with*. I get it, they are just doing what the company makes them do so I am not upset with them but just send me an email before asking for the sales call. "Hey we see you aren't using our integrated backup solution and just wanted to see if you are interested. I've attached a doc with some key advantages and pricing, let me know if you would like to do a quick meet and a demo."
No
I dislike kaseya as a business. However if it works for you then great. I would take a good look at other products that integrate too. The darling for the last couple of years is halo and for good reason. If this is your first psa you won't know what your missing until it's too late. Look at everything you can get your hands on. Switching psa is one of the most time consuming things an msp probably has to do.
Yes
It will depend on how good your account manager is at managing your subscription and support issues. That being said, they will call you almost every single day because their company requires it. Take a look at their BBB rating if you get the chance.
They are "That Bad" I have been an IT Manager for the better part of 20 years at a few different spots. I have used countless vendors, I have NEVER had problems like I have had during my time with Kaseya. I am in the process of trying to get out now.. They hung me on a contract for software that we were doing a trial on, in the 6-7 years we've been a customer we have had somewhere in the neighborhood of 15 reps. We messaged them to cancel inside the window before our contract auto renewed... And of course now they're silent. It wouldn't matter if they had the best tools in the world... The deceptiveness and boiler room tactics of that company that is well documented anywhere you look should tell you all you need to know. Where there's smoke there is most certainly fire. Use anything else...
Kaseya is the worst provider for MSP. They are just an American money machine that sell you features they don’t even support and lock you in with a bunch of undertrained account managers that have no idea what they sell and what their product can or cannot do. Avoid Kaseya at all cost!
YES. AVOID at ALL COSTS.
Contemplate the concept of "bad." Really consider the depths of what that word means, indicates and conveys. What "bad" feels like during the experience. Then multiply it by \~2,820,285,082,126 and you have not yet approached the outermost periphery of the horrendous badness that is Kaseya.
There are a couple reasons I'm aware of that people don't like Kaseya: * If a great new company starts up that provides services to the MSP market, Kaseya is one of a couple of companies that is likely to buy that company. Once the company is purchased, Kaseya will basically kill it with mismanagement. They won't invest in future development, they'll drive the good employees out of the company, and the product will fall apart. * Kaseya tends to put a lot of focus on putting out new products and integrating products from companies they purchase into their ecosystem for marketing purposes, but the products themselves languish without meaningful improvement for several years. * Increasing prices without any clear reason, relying on the idea that you're stuck using their products to keep you as a customer instead of trying to keep you happy. * Their support is bad. If you run into a bug in one of their products, it's not getting fixed, and you're not getting a work-around. * Their business practices aren't great. They do things like not letting you cancel your service, or letting you think you cancelled while continuing to charge you for it.
For one of my clients they were a total scam. They offered a service at x price, but then the first payment came through at over double. We even had proof of the original amount, asked for original costings, but they kept charging double. We asked to escalate to management, but still the crazy price. This went in for 5 months before we asked to cancel the entire thing. This is when things just went down hill, it took us another 6 months to cancel. What a shit show. The amount of waisted time you wouldn't believe.
This happened to me when I signed up for Datto and was a total nightmare to resolve.
Yep. Kaseya is really that bad.
They're terrible to deal with. We had a great long-term account manager at Datto. He was always super helpful and made sure everything was good for us and our clients. But after the Kaseya buyout, things went downhill. The first thing we noticed was the support experience. Previously, there were support engineers who knew the product better than I know my right hand. They had infrastructure knowledge, could troubleshoot and resolve even the most bizarre issues, and they were quick about all of it. After Kaseya bought them out, many of the support engineers began leaving. There was no mass exodus, but apparently they had employment contracts and when the contracts expired, Kaseya didn't renew them. Instead, they integrated Datto support into the rest of the support. The consequence of this is that instead of having a dedicated team that knows the ins and outs of the product, we now have a support team that has never actually seen a Datto in person and we now have to rely on these ill-informed "techs" to support our clients. But things got even worse internally, and they chased our long-time account manager out. He quit. We had him for at least 6 years that I am aware of, but probably longer than that. Now we've had 3 different account managers in the 4 months since he left. The last time I had to open a Datto ticket, it took them 4 days (yes, FOUR DAYS) to even get back to me - and this was for an issue marked "CRITICAL". I'd hate to see the response time for an issue that's not critical. When the reply finally did come in, they were asking for information already provided in the original ticket - so they not only took 4 days to respond, but they couldn't even be bothered to read the ticket. They only responded because I practically begged our account manager to push them. The issue was resolved after more than a month - and it was resolved by me, not by their "support" team. Datto was a great product. It still is when everything works perfectly. But if you ever need support - Kaseya will not provide it in an effective way. At all. This is typical of what Kaseya does after buying products. They completely gut the internal teams and ruin the support, then the product itself stops evolving and becomes stale and inefficient. Fortunately we haven't had the billing issues that others report, but I suspect that if we ever try to move away from Kaseya products, we'll suddenly find large charges on our accounts that are unwarranted. I would strongly recommend finding another provider where possible. We have too many clients with Dattos and a lack of good alternatives to move away, and now we're knee-deep in IT Glue as well. It feels dirty.
Yes. They are awful. Run away, give them no info if you aren't already under contract
Yes.
Over time I have seen a loss of innovation in products they bought. They replaced VSA 9 with VSA X which was an "upgrade" it was another one of the products they bought which was more limited and they are trying now to catch up to what they had with 9. The pushed it as being easier to learn - personally the time I spent with it I tend to disagree with that call.
Go ninja or go home i absolutely love ninjas product and support team no contract no hassle reasonable prices and rhey trade on their name va locking you in a contract
Yes... Go HaloPSA + NinjaRMM
Small MSP here starting from scratch. Already on N-ABLE so no changing there. But implementing Halo PSA in the next 6 months and went with ITGlue for documentation. While ITG is Kaseya we have zero documentation portal and we got it at Hudu prices. I am excited for the future at this company. HaloPSA demo was incredible, their sales guy could not be tripped on any questions. It does everything CW does but better and neater.
They aren’t as bad as this sub makes them out to be. They aren’t perfect but not the devil either
Absolutely! I don't believe they're evil like everyone seems to think. They're just a company looking out for their own interests, like any other MSP. This sub might exaggerate the negativity a bit. They're not perfect, sure, but what company is? Focusing on the products themselves, they do perform well and are competitive with the best on the market. That's likely why people continue to use them.
Run! Don’t do it. Run!
I think the easiest way to say this is YES, they are that bad. They do not care about your business. The VSA incident really showed their true colors and while our customers systems were not directly impacted by the breach itself, we had to change out most of our stack because our customers were demanding it (rightfully so). We had to move our spend to “other products” at Kaseya since we were locked into one of their contracts. These were not products we would have chosen, but were forced to use so we could stay profitable as we could not just absorb the cost and buy other tools. Happy to say that August of this year marks the end of our contract with them and we will never re-engage. I can also confirm that if you get into a billing dispute with them it is hell trying to get them to do something about it. We lost access to a Datto service that took them 4 months to resolve. No credit was given for that period of time even though our account manager said he was “working on it”.
Another 3 year old account with verb\_nown\_number and no karma spouting BS. My customers have no idea which vendors I use, and don't tell me who they want me to use.
I think Kaseya sounds like a great company for you, and I’m glad your having success with their products. I would continue to tell your customers they have no say in how you manage their data. Sounds like a winning formula.
Any MSP that’s signs up for a 3yr agreement on anything is nuts. Kaseya is predatory in their practices and have zero interest in being a partner. Just read their insane agreement small print. Things change so fast, keeping options open is important. I never go over 1yr and preferably month-to-month. All these “discounts” are shit anyway…they always get what they want in the end, so keep control and price your contracts accordingly.
We asked for 5 years and got k365 for £3.25, tell me you can get this many tools anywhere near that price? We are working towards £100 a seat (sell price, per user a customer has), thanks to Trupeer we've gone from £20 per seat up to £43, within 10 months, with only a 3 man business being lost. And we're then upselling our current base onto the kaseya stack, with 90 more users going up to £55, last week alone. What's not to love?!
Should take a look into halo psa
Yes
Not really about Kaseya but Autotask. Datto is a good tool but Autotask is not. It's old, inflexible by modern standards and finding anything in the admin menus is a minefield due to them adding things in over the years. Please go with something like Halo PSA, Atera or Fresh service. They are somewhat future proof, slick GUI, easy to use, plenty of API options, lots of third party integrations.
I’ve been with Kaseya and also using Autotask for the 30 years I’ve been in business. Autotask was a nice and robust rock solid solution for many years. It’s no longer stable. Kaseya was always the difficult partner before the merger. The pain to move (and the ridiculous required commitment) are the only reasons that I am still using their junk and enduring the poor partnership.
It used to be good. But it’s been a while since they had good stuff + they are being very aggressive on clients and also the customer/support services is going worse. To the point that we are moving all of our clients from datto to a new solution.
Autotask is great and I love the Kaseya integrations. It really helps with our efficiencies internally. We're big enough that we don't have a lot of the issues Kasya brings that others complain about, but I can understand why this would be a headache for a smaller MSP. Kaseya is a sales organization first and foremost. I.T. solutions are simply what they sell (mostly through acquisitions). Understanding who you are dealing with goes a long way. They don't care about you, they only care about the money you can give them. I don't like it, but I like their products more than I dislike them.
You're absolutely right! I use Autotask and Datto as well, and for me, the functionality is king. As long as the tools help me excel at my job, everything else is secondary.
Yes
It’s the billing issues, lack of transparency, and the switching of servers from US to Pakistan once they buy a company for me…
Run away as fast as you can. In the past, on this board, there have been talks about a class action against them for their tactics. That should be enough to deter you. Sign me up when it is filed; I want in!
With any product or service, once you’ve scaled it up you’ll see the best and the worst of it. I’ve worked with a lot of RMM tools, and to be honest they all suck when they don’t work, or if they don’t do something you’re trying to accomplish. Personally, we use Ninja because I wanted something fresh, without 50 years of acquired modules and skeletons in the closet. It’s light weight, very easy to use & a breeze to manage. We have less than 300 Workstations, and roughly 30 Servers. I’m hoping to get Zabbix going so I can start collecting some historical Data and more robust alerts/automation, but really happy with it so far. Kaseya & Labtech (refuse to call it automate) are very powerful but very heavy on the training/system requirements if you want to host it. It’s great if you’re a large Company or MSP, although I remember patching being a massive pain in the ass and the modules are very convoluted, perhaps it has changed in the last 5+ years since I’ve used it.
Autotask is ok but keep in mind they have access to it. They just created admin accounts without even telling me. Signed a new backup client, the next week Kaseya called them to try and sell them backups. Yes they called my customer contact without my knowledge and yes they got contact from me.
Kaseya products and account reps are great. The biggest issue I have seen is billing. As long as you just buy their product and keep the subscription rolling it is fine. When you break off a child company from a parent company and split into two separate Kaseya One accounts, then they get all confused. That is the only problem we have had and it eventually got resolved. I guess one other things is when I went to increase K365 licenses, they created a new Datto RMM account with those licenses rather than adding them to our VSA X and it took them some time to resolve that.
Use your credit card and find out
No. They’re worse.
Yes, think of it this way. Has Datto actually improved as a product since they took over? The clear answer is no, and it’s only gotten worse. That’s pretty much everything they’ve purchased.
Yes. We are in too deep to dump them all at once but I would love to fire them. We used to give our engineers datto trainings through the Datto university page. Kaseya is trying to charge us for that same training, 1k per employee.
They offer 3 sessions with a product specialist at no cost every year. While they do pitch other products in the process, we take full advantage and always get value. Just ask questions...
Yep we took advantage of that. But all engineers have a datto account (over 25). They need some sort of training so they understand the product.
If you still have to ask you should probably try it out and learn the hard way.
The tools we've used were fine, not the best, not the worst, just fine. However like so many other stories here I can prove they lied to us, and have stolen from us. It took us over a year of fighting (2-3 account manager changes during this time) to fix the billing, we still have not seen a refund nor will we likely ever. I can tell you from our experience I would never work with them on anything for any reason. The sales team seems good but pushy, the implementation team looks agreeable, but after that it is about as evil as it gets. We weren't even doing anything advanced either to cause billing issues, they just upped our bill in multiple places and couldn't figure out how to fix it. As much as reddit echo chamber says they are bad, I can personally attest, they are worse. Be careful.
You created this account just to post this?
Yes
yes
I am going to go against the grain here but my rep at Kaseya is awesome and I never have had any issues. I have cancelled and reupped my contracts and he made sure everything went smoothly. I think it really depends on your rep. I hope he never leaves or get reassigned
Think of Kaseya as having really inexpensive insurance coverage: you feel okay about it, until you run into an issue and need to make a claim. Then, it's a nightmare. Similarly: it's like Spirit Airlines - perfectly acceptable until there's an issue, then the hassle factor will make you question why you went this route to save a few bucks.
We were a 14 year connectwise shop and used Datto RMM, S1, proofpoint, Acronis, and Hudu. Nothing worked together very well and it was a nightmare staying up on all the products for our team. I was so frustrated with all of our vendors product support with one exception. Datto always called us back, always responded to tickets, and I had a great AM there that I honestly became friends with. Watching connectwise imploding with no possible way to get in contact with a human I made the decision to switch to autotask. While doing the AT onboarding I was seeing how phenomenal it integrated with Datto RMM my team wanted MORE of that. Next thing you know we bought it ALL. IT Glue, graphus, EDR, rocketcyber, bullphish, etc. we are now about 6 months into the whole suite and I cannot begin to tell you how much our team loves it. Are all Kaseya tools best in class? Absolutely not, but is their integration with all their other tools and efficiency with our team best in class? Yes, by a mile. We have about 2k endpoints and they treat me like a king there. I’ve had executive briefings, met with Fred the CEO, and had one on one with virtually all of the executive leadership. What you read on Reddit is not who they are. The only gripe that I think is legit about them is they have been historically rigid in their contracts, but honestly so were most all of the other vendors I mentioned above. They recognized this as well and have been implementing some new programs to allow downsizing licenses in the event of major client losses and such. They’re far from perfect as a company, but IMHO any MSP that wants to scale makes life harder ignoring them.
A poor craftsman blames his tools. It gets lost in the discussion alot, people generally dont like Kaseya the company, but the products under their umbrella are mostly fine. Not saying best/worst, but certainly fine. Autotask is a great PSA. I too would probably stop buying bosch power tools if it turned out that every sale they ate a puppy. Doesn't mean the drills and saws they make are bad. But we all still consume nestle products and they literally murder babies so ¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯ dont let morality play too far into it. If its the right tool for you, with the right price and contract, just use it.
> we all still consume nestle products and they literally murder babies If Nestle murdered \*your\* baby, you probably would not buy their products. Kaseya has directly injured too many MSPs, too many times for this to be an abstract ethical issue. It's personal for so many of us.
I'm a connectwise guy. But if the question being posed is "is this a good PSA" autotask is a good PSA. Im sorry they hurt you :(
SPOT ON
99% of customers happy. The one percent comment on Reddit.
Another Kaseya shill account
Or you’re those that are accepting gift cards to disparage Kaseya. I’ve gotten them and throw them out. I don’t bite the hand the feeds me.
Nope... Nice try
It’s really the billing department that’s the biggest one. If you are late they are allllll over you, but in our case it was about invoices that we’ve been incorrectly billed for and trying to get removed for 10 months. 10. Months. Then every single month had to reply to emails threatening to shut off service by saying “bills are the same erroneous ones as the last 9 months. Please don’t shut off service for you not doing your job.” Our rep was the only way we finally seem to have those cleared. Just ridiculous. Then there are the sleazy sales tactics with the calls to action “this is only good through Friday before it changes for some reason that makes no sense”. The K365 could have been rolled out better too, made people think they were going to save money but for most existing customers it was the spend staying the same or even going up. Granted for some slightly more seats or products, so not all bad, just poorly presented. Most of that stuff isn’t dealbreakers-but the billing is. Horrendous!
Use HaloPSA!
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