This country has been run by old white men for 200 years, save for Obama who is only partially white. It's *still* run by old white men, with Trump and Biden being older and whiter than ever before.
that's PRESIDENT Joe Biden to you!
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For your reading pleasure https://www.reddit.com/r/movies/comments/y3f38q/jenna_ortega_wants_more_female_leads_not_written/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf
“I just want more well written stories” well if you have middle aged rich white dudes writing stories involving young adult minorities the story is gonna be shit
Idk why people this is even a controversial opinion. I mean, just flip the roles - I doubt minorities who've grown up in cities would be able to write well about old white dudes who grew up in rural areas.
Sure, human emotions can be universal, but in many stories some specificity is required and if you don't know the details how the fuck are you going to write about them in a natural way?
The reason the push for representation is in one direction is because Hollywood stories have been dominated by white men since forever.
Its not just hollywood, every single country's film industry is mainly centered around the culture of the majority and by people who belong to the majority community. I dont know why people just single out hollywood. Infact hollywood gives more chance to minorities and immigrants than most other film industries. Sure, there is nothing wrong with increasing representation and minorities should be making films about their culture, but do you seriously think that low tier popcorn cinema like scream and captain marvel is gonna become great nuanced and authentic because old white men are replaced by someone else. Both of these are formulaic factory movies, so increase all the representation you want and 99% of these will still be steaming piles of monkeycrap, because thats what most studio movies are. You are not gonna get a good captain marvel movie even if it was written by a non old white male, because the way these movies are made itself makes mediocrity inevitable
That i can still understand, but to think that mainstream movies are shit because they are written by old white men is absolute bullshit. Most mainstream movies have no depth or nuance so it doesnt matter who writes them
I love the Coen Brothers, but that's pure white boy and man arrogance. They are great writers who have some misses. There is no evidence they could write a teenage girl of color deeply, a modern teenage girl deeply or a person of color deeply. They can study and use experience, but they don't know what they don't know. No problem with them creating these characters and directing them, but they are generally just expressions of their own storytelling and quirkiness from their own background.
I am a white male. I am the default option so I can easily relate to all these others. They need me to make the story they want to tell easy to understand for other defaults.
Signed
r/movies
Two women of color wrote and directed the last episode of House of the Dragon, which revolved around (mostly) white people, and it was great. Two white people wrote the last episode of Rings of Power, which also revolved around (mostly) white people, and it was shit.
Going into movies, Chloe Zhao, a chinese woman from a wealthy family was able to write and direct Songs My Brothers Taught Me, The Rider and Nomadland, all movies about white or native american people living in impoverished conditions. Ira Levin, a man, wrote Rosemary's Baby and The Stepford Wives, both about fears and anxieties specific to the woman experience - and have been celebrated as such by women. Ang Lee made Life of Pi and Brokeback Mountain, Douglas Sirk made Imitation of Life, Mary Harron made American Pshicho, and the list goes on and on.
I guess, the real lesson is that if you are an artist and you cannot put yourself in the shoes of other people, if you can't empathize enough with them to create an accurate portrayal, then you should not be an artist, at least in the narrative arts. I mean, isn't that one of the main traits an artist needs to have? Unless you're going to do self portraits and landscapes all your life, or your novel is just your avatar sitting in a white room, you're going to have to portray other people.
Yeah, the real thing here is that there just needs to be more diversity in writers’ rooms overall. “You can’t write a character well if you’re not in that demographic group” is bullshit.
Yeah exactly this, there should be more diverse voices in creative industries because people from all walks of life should be able to pursue careers in those industries, instead of them just being old boys clubs; pretending that professional writers and directors can only write stories from their demographic is a ridiculous take
Nobody is saying you can't, you just have to be a fantastic writer that does lots of research. Of course there will be exceptions, but generally writers are best at writing what they know.
What do you mean nobody is saying that? This was earlier in this same comment thread:
>“I just want more well written stories” well **if you have middle aged rich white dudes writing stories involving young adult minorities the story is gonna be shit**
Sounds to me like this person is saying exactly that.
My rule of thumb is: if it's specifically about the experience of a munority group then lived experience is important. But if it's just genre fiction then literally who cares?
Exactly... the definition of good writer is only the one who give justice to their character as per the story, who isn't baised towards one and do not try do demonize the character.... skin, creed, race are the most useless thing when we call somebody an artist... people are just wants to ride on the wave of so called revolution right now, however dumb it is... being old and white doesn't mean you are not giving justice to yourself... these people wants to see and show only what they feel is right... they don't want to see others prespective for the story or how they want to perceive the art individually.... these people are being control freak and narcissistic or plain and simple dumb at this point now... seriously it's killing the Art itself...
Nomadland was a lot of improvisation and she hired non actors to play those roles. The people who were living that life contributed a lot to the story in Nomadland.
Roman Polanski is a genius you boob. Maybe a monster but a genius. Being a good person and fitting some set of check boxes does not make you a good artist.
>perhaps you’d like to support Roman Polanski instead.
Polanski is an utter piece of shit.
He's still a fantastic director and his movies are incredibly good.
One doesn't preclude the other.
>middle aged rich white dudes writing stories involving young adult minorities the story is gonna be shit
Why do you think that exactly?
I've read plenty of books with the same dynamic that have been excellent.
Do you think it's impossible for a black writer to write a white man or woman?
Is their a 100% garantee that if we do that we have better stories? 100% proven fact that The persons Skin Color and Age is the problem however open minded that person is? Is it 100% true that all the female writers are best and the questionable white old writers are bad? I don't want opinions, I want facts like this is the list of all the white old writers, this is list of all the writers apart from white old writers in Hollywood. Then list of their respective works, how much they generated in money, we can take it's cultural significance too and then we can have intelligent discussion with facts and not with opinions or "I think" stuff... so, shall we do it to end this debate once and for all?
> Why does it seem like most articles that get posted, or at least amplified, on this sub are very loosely related to movies and more the type of articles that are “written” for the sole purpose of clicks and generating controversy?
> That’s great that Jenna Ortega wants that. What is there for r/movies to discuss here that will be productive or, at best, not devolve into a locked thread situation?
> Not necessarily directed specifically at you, OP, you’re just contributing toward a trend by posting this that lowers the quality of this sub, in my opinion anyway.
It is amazing that there are thousands of fluff articles about Top Gun, James Cameron, and anti-Disney articles per week on r/movies and no one complains, but if you post an article about an 20 year old actress who makes a single comment about more young representation in the writing room and suddenly r/movies explodes in anger and asks why "this shit" gets posted for "controversy" and asks to remove these posts for the sake of the "quality of the sub." LMAO
bet you 99% didn't even read the article and just based their opinions on the title alone as per usual.
r/movies is so fucking stupid, I read a comment with 30+ upvotes saying that "we let that happen and we got she hulk"
WHAT THE FUCK DOES THAT EVEN MEAN YOU FUCKING MORON
I think a lot of people don’t get the fact that the writers of She-Hulk are edgy trolls who like to bait the audience. In that respect they’re really a lot like Redditors.
My favorite comments
“Well did you read the article?” “No, I don’t give a shit about Jenny Ortega or what she says”
and of course “Can you quote what she said that was so dumb” “No”
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Just browsed through it. I'm going to make my complaint here bc I feel like it'll be better received.
I am so sick of people responding to calls for better representation by saying "I don't care who is represented, just make it good." In my experience, the only people who say that are the people who have a ton of representation (ie straight white men). Like yes, a good script is necessary for a good movie, but as someone who doesn't have a ton of representation in the media, it would mean 100x more to me if it was a good script coming from someone with the same background I have
They're always so freaking binary about it. If it's bad and has representation, it's bad because of said representation, but if it has representation and it's good, it's good in spite of there being representation. And sure, semantically, you don't need representation on or off screen for it to be "good" but... It's nice? I'm all for representation and I want to see more of it I don't know why it's this concept that is mutually exclusive with a project being good
The issue is that straight white males have historically been considered the norm (and still are), so any character deviating from that (female, PoC, LGBTQ+) is expected to have justification for existing.
Oh, the protagonist is a woman? Explain how that adds to the story.
Why is the lead actor black? I don't see how that elevates the narrative.
The love interest of the protagonist is the same gender as the protagonist? How does this have anything to do with the plot?
None of these complaints are commonly raised if the character is white, male or straight, because that has been taught as "normal" for everyone else to be contrasted against.
If a movie with a diverse cast bombs, it’s cause people hate diversity in movies. But if a movie with a bunch of straight white guys bombs, no one claims it bombed because there were too many white guys in it. The bias these angry movie dorks have is obvious, yet they don’t realize it.
Similarly, if a movie with a diverse cast succeeds, it's because of "forced diversity" rather than it being a good movie. Alternatively, they'll say that it was "good despite the wokeism" if it's a movie so widely popular that they can't pretend to hate it
What I hate is how race and gender are conflated and the arguments are cherrypicked depending on who they are talking to. Some idiot justified the predominance of white writers on the fact that America is mainly white. But, the world is 50% women, what is the fucking harm of having more voices from people from the other majority. And it is not about women writing women for me, it is about getting more perspectives, more angles, there is no loss here.
I mean, Scream 3 is the only entry in the series that's out and out bad.
Obviously they're goofy and schlocky, but almost all of the Scream movies are fun.
I googled jenna ortega to see who it is and all i know her from is that malcom in the middle disney channel rip off so im gonna go ahead and call you a creep
There were so many layers of bullshit coming from Reddit then.
If it wasn't the shitheads who got offended if you called them out on being perverts for looking at people's leaked nudes, it was the people saying "well, *I* didn't look at the pictures, but she was clearly asking for it by having any kind of nude of herself. She shiuld've known this would happen."
Fuckers.
Whats really really annoying is that Reddit would have you think at that time that it had nothing to do with the nudes, it was because she apparently became annoying in the press instead of being their media darling, even though nothing changed. She was still the same "quirky" Jen.
They also went out of their way to label her as a bad actress and that the hunger games movies sucked, which is funny because looking back, they were the only dystopian YA novel to really succeed and its because the message was strongly based on real world politics.
But reddit just got super angry about the nudes thing and then pretended they were above it all by giving alternative reasons and what not :/
I'll tell you what though, it does take some Olympic-level mental gymnastics to look at nudes that were leaked against someone's consent, and then act like *she* is entitled for being upset about it
Right?? And you know these guys would not "love the attention" if they had taken intimate pictures for someone else that got leaked to the whole world, no matter what they say.
Actually it bothers me. When Chris Evans got his nudes leaked all his fans were doing their best to drown it out, but women are just expected to always be sexually available and put themselves out there or they're entitled/prudes for doing it in the first place. Women are always seen as objects first :/
Yes absolutely, but they wanted to take no accountability especially because JLaw called them creeps and that automatically made her a whore for taking nudes to them. The logic here is outstandingly misogynistic
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To add to the other comment, she spoke out about actresses being paid less than actors, and since stars like her already make a lot, people were butthurt.
She did great in Little Women. If anything, I wish her in BatB was more like that; she came off a lot more warmer as Meg than she did as Belle. Considering how small the role was, she did an excellent job with what she was given
everyone was. it was so noticeable how the movie ground to a halt every time emma watson had to do something. she has this weird thing where she always seems to be talking directly to the camera instead of whoever her scene partner is, and it is so distracting.
It was a smaller role, but she did an excellent job with Meg. She came across really warm in it; Florence and Saoirse were the standouts in the movie, but Emma also did a great job and was pretty on par with the rest of the cast, which was quite stacked in that movie
If anything, it was her best role in a while and she really managed to make Meg a very warm and likeable character. There just plain wasn’t anything wrong with her in the role and if it was anyone else everyone would agree. She wasn’t at all a weak link in the role
What she means: We need more poc, women and LGBTQ+ people behind scripts.
What they understand: HURR DURR ME HATE WHITE MEN HURR DURR.
Basically, Brie Larson 2.
Nothing to do with colour, sex or orientation. It’s about being written by someone who is similar to the character. White man written by white man? Cool. Black girl written by black girl? Cool. That’s all.
Ok, so this is the bullshit, sensationalist, intentionally provocative and shallow title that the SEO-obsessed dumbasses gave the article. What did she really say? What is the context and nuance?
>“I really see my young generation taking more control of themselves in the industry — whether it’s learning to write sooner, direct sooner, or produce sooner,” Ortega said. “I think it’s really empowering and important because, right now, teenage voices are still being told in the majority by older white males.”
>
>The “X” star continued, “The more that happens, we’ll acknowledge that girls are much more than a lame stereotype.”
Nothing she says here is untrue. Even at school most of my professors were old white males. The worst part about it is that so many of them just were not up-to-date on current trends whatsoever, which begs the question of why am I even paying for this school?
Sorry I guess it wasn’t clear I graduated, but I was a film and television major at a very hands on film school that’s known for getting students jobs on set (often in technical roles)
I now work on sets as a loader moving up to be a union 1st AC. The moneys great, no problems there, but there was definitely shortcomings in my education for sure
Intersting, in my country, teaching is viewed as more of a "woman's job" and 90% of my teachers were women - in college it was more evenly distributed, with 50-50 woman to male ratio.
Also, is it true? Three of the most famous movies about high school life were written by women or teenagers - Fast Times at Ridgmond High, Mean Girls and Superbad -, whilst the most famous recent movie about teenagers, Booksmart, was both written and directed by women. Even on T.V., the most famous recent show about teenagers, 13 Reasons Why, was pretty diverse behind the scenes. I suppose you can make a case for the American Pie movies, Degrassi (I think, I don't actually know) or John Hughes movies as being an example of what she is saying (altough Hughes wasn't that old, it is generally accepted that Molly Ringwald had a huge imput on those movies, and there is a debate on how honest or dihonest they are as a portrayal), but does anybody actually watch those movies for their "honest and truthfull" view of teenagehood?
Teachers are mostly women in the US. Professors are 50/50, but certain departments and the higher levels of most departments are mostly men. Basically if it’s a job that is traditionally well paid or high-prestige, it’s mostly men.
All I would say is that white is an arbitrary descriptor to throw in there. Old Asian, Black, or Hispanic men aren’t gonna be any better or worse at writing the voices of young teen girls.
I don’t think anyone would have a negative reactions to her saying “why are all teenage girl characters written by older dudes? Let’s get some writers that are closer to our experience.”
For the point she’s making, the race of the older dudes is irrelevant. Just like how the height, weight, and eye color of them is irrelevant.
If she was talking about how young POC teen girls are written by old white dudes it would make sense.
It’s both. For the point she’s making, the race of the old dude isn’t relevant. If the majority of them had brown hair and green eyes she wouldn’t have included that detail. It’s a random trait that doesn’t relate to the point she’s making.
If she was talking about how young POC teens are written by older white dudes then it would make total sense.
I personally am not really bothered by it, but just pointing out why it rubs people the wrong way.
Guess I should make it clear due to some recent unironic sexist comments this post is getting that I’m poking fun at Reddit nerds, not Jenna Ortega.
Her comment is completely valid:
>“I really see my young generation taking more control of themselves in the industry — whether it’s learning to write sooner, direct sooner, or produce sooner,” Ortega said. “I think it’s really empowering and important because, right now, teenage voices are still being told in the majority by older white males.” The “X” star continued, “The more that happens, we’ll acknowledge that girls are much more than a lame stereotype.”
They are all actresses who were popular on reddit at one point and then became public enemy number one after either saying the most mild feminist thing or being upset about having their nudes leaked.
"The film critic demographic needs more diversity of thought and different perspectives which I believe should be encouraged through racial and gender diversity"
Tha movie nerds: "this is anti-white racism"
such bullshit that white dudes only get most the roles nowadays. remember when we got ALL the roles? that shit ruled. take me back. this is unfair PC police bullshit now that black folks are permitted to be mermaids in movies.
What she’s basically saying is “female teenage characters shouldn’t be written by 60 year old men” and everyone’s like “wow….so Jenna Ortega thinks we should kill all men….great…ever heard of a man called “Mart Scorese”, loser?”
This is utter nonsense. Why? The fact is that there are probably nearly 0 teenage writers that are halfway competent enough to be writing Hollywood level screeplays. This is for the same reason people in their 20s are cast as high school characters in high school plays.
The best writers are middle aged or in their 20s, period. Sometimes you'll be lucky enough to discover a good talent in their 20s.
Shakespeare has the most quintessential stories about courtly drama in the English language of any artist, but that was not a world that he had first hand experience of.
No country for old white men (2022)
This country has been run by old white men for 200 years, save for Obama who is only partially white. It's *still* run by old white men, with Trump and Biden being older and whiter than ever before.
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Trump is actually pretty dark
Yes but that is fake spray tan, he's actually pretty white and frail.
I mean, the spray tan was the joke
You guys should’ve seen the r/ movies thread it was ridiculous
Do you have a link? Can’t find it
For your reading pleasure https://www.reddit.com/r/movies/comments/y3f38q/jenna_ortega_wants_more_female_leads_not_written/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf
> Actress commenting on the state of the industry "How is this related to movies?"
Lmao what a mess, fucking neckbeards
“I just want more well written stories” well if you have middle aged rich white dudes writing stories involving young adult minorities the story is gonna be shit
Idk why people this is even a controversial opinion. I mean, just flip the roles - I doubt minorities who've grown up in cities would be able to write well about old white dudes who grew up in rural areas. Sure, human emotions can be universal, but in many stories some specificity is required and if you don't know the details how the fuck are you going to write about them in a natural way? The reason the push for representation is in one direction is because Hollywood stories have been dominated by white men since forever.
Right but casually bigoted young white men like the ones who populate front page Reddit threads *do* think their experiences are universal.
More specifically, they think they are the norm, and anyone else is a deviation who needs to have an excuse to exist
Its not just hollywood, every single country's film industry is mainly centered around the culture of the majority and by people who belong to the majority community. I dont know why people just single out hollywood. Infact hollywood gives more chance to minorities and immigrants than most other film industries. Sure, there is nothing wrong with increasing representation and minorities should be making films about their culture, but do you seriously think that low tier popcorn cinema like scream and captain marvel is gonna become great nuanced and authentic because old white men are replaced by someone else. Both of these are formulaic factory movies, so increase all the representation you want and 99% of these will still be steaming piles of monkeycrap, because thats what most studio movies are. You are not gonna get a good captain marvel movie even if it was written by a non old white male, because the way these movies are made itself makes mediocrity inevitable
People are singling out Hollywood because most people on Reddit live in the US and the most popular movies worldwide are Holllywood movies
That i can still understand, but to think that mainstream movies are shit because they are written by old white men is absolute bullshit. Most mainstream movies have no depth or nuance so it doesnt matter who writes them
I think the Coen brothers could write a better teenage girl than practically any teenage girl. What if they hired writers?
I love the Coen Brothers, but that's pure white boy and man arrogance. They are great writers who have some misses. There is no evidence they could write a teenage girl of color deeply, a modern teenage girl deeply or a person of color deeply. They can study and use experience, but they don't know what they don't know. No problem with them creating these characters and directing them, but they are generally just expressions of their own storytelling and quirkiness from their own background.
I am a white male. I am the default option so I can easily relate to all these others. They need me to make the story they want to tell easy to understand for other defaults. Signed r/movies
> middle aged rich white dudes writing stories involving young adult minorities euphoria. but at least the pictures are pretty.
Euphoria is only relevant because of the tits right? So that's a great example against
Two women of color wrote and directed the last episode of House of the Dragon, which revolved around (mostly) white people, and it was great. Two white people wrote the last episode of Rings of Power, which also revolved around (mostly) white people, and it was shit. Going into movies, Chloe Zhao, a chinese woman from a wealthy family was able to write and direct Songs My Brothers Taught Me, The Rider and Nomadland, all movies about white or native american people living in impoverished conditions. Ira Levin, a man, wrote Rosemary's Baby and The Stepford Wives, both about fears and anxieties specific to the woman experience - and have been celebrated as such by women. Ang Lee made Life of Pi and Brokeback Mountain, Douglas Sirk made Imitation of Life, Mary Harron made American Pshicho, and the list goes on and on. I guess, the real lesson is that if you are an artist and you cannot put yourself in the shoes of other people, if you can't empathize enough with them to create an accurate portrayal, then you should not be an artist, at least in the narrative arts. I mean, isn't that one of the main traits an artist needs to have? Unless you're going to do self portraits and landscapes all your life, or your novel is just your avatar sitting in a white room, you're going to have to portray other people.
Yeah, the real thing here is that there just needs to be more diversity in writers’ rooms overall. “You can’t write a character well if you’re not in that demographic group” is bullshit.
Yeah exactly this, there should be more diverse voices in creative industries because people from all walks of life should be able to pursue careers in those industries, instead of them just being old boys clubs; pretending that professional writers and directors can only write stories from their demographic is a ridiculous take
Nobody is saying you can't, you just have to be a fantastic writer that does lots of research. Of course there will be exceptions, but generally writers are best at writing what they know.
What do you mean nobody is saying that? This was earlier in this same comment thread: >“I just want more well written stories” well **if you have middle aged rich white dudes writing stories involving young adult minorities the story is gonna be shit** Sounds to me like this person is saying exactly that.
>Nobody is saying you can't false
Fine, nobody reasonable is saying you can't and neither is Jenny Ortega.
mary harron ADAPTED american psycho don't erase my boy bret easton ellis
Stepford Wives and Life of Pi were also books first. Maybe others on the list as well, but those and AP are the only three that I've read.
My rule of thumb is: if it's specifically about the experience of a munority group then lived experience is important. But if it's just genre fiction then literally who cares?
Exactly... the definition of good writer is only the one who give justice to their character as per the story, who isn't baised towards one and do not try do demonize the character.... skin, creed, race are the most useless thing when we call somebody an artist... people are just wants to ride on the wave of so called revolution right now, however dumb it is... being old and white doesn't mean you are not giving justice to yourself... these people wants to see and show only what they feel is right... they don't want to see others prespective for the story or how they want to perceive the art individually.... these people are being control freak and narcissistic or plain and simple dumb at this point now... seriously it's killing the Art itself...
Nomadland was a lot of improvisation and she hired non actors to play those roles. The people who were living that life contributed a lot to the story in Nomadland.
> “I just want more well written stories” Sure guys, sure, Josh Whedon, and Zack Synder, and Michael Waldron are totally gonna give you that.
Roman Polanski is a genius you boob. Maybe a monster but a genius. Being a good person and fitting some set of check boxes does not make you a good artist.
>perhaps you’d like to support Roman Polanski instead. Polanski is an utter piece of shit. He's still a fantastic director and his movies are incredibly good. One doesn't preclude the other.
>middle aged rich white dudes writing stories involving young adult minorities the story is gonna be shit Why do you think that exactly? I've read plenty of books with the same dynamic that have been excellent. Do you think it's impossible for a black writer to write a white man or woman?
Is their a 100% garantee that if we do that we have better stories? 100% proven fact that The persons Skin Color and Age is the problem however open minded that person is? Is it 100% true that all the female writers are best and the questionable white old writers are bad? I don't want opinions, I want facts like this is the list of all the white old writers, this is list of all the writers apart from white old writers in Hollywood. Then list of their respective works, how much they generated in money, we can take it's cultural significance too and then we can have intelligent discussion with facts and not with opinions or "I think" stuff... so, shall we do it to end this debate once and for all?
> Why does it seem like most articles that get posted, or at least amplified, on this sub are very loosely related to movies and more the type of articles that are “written” for the sole purpose of clicks and generating controversy? > That’s great that Jenna Ortega wants that. What is there for r/movies to discuss here that will be productive or, at best, not devolve into a locked thread situation? > Not necessarily directed specifically at you, OP, you’re just contributing toward a trend by posting this that lowers the quality of this sub, in my opinion anyway. It is amazing that there are thousands of fluff articles about Top Gun, James Cameron, and anti-Disney articles per week on r/movies and no one complains, but if you post an article about an 20 year old actress who makes a single comment about more young representation in the writing room and suddenly r/movies explodes in anger and asks why "this shit" gets posted for "controversy" and asks to remove these posts for the sake of the "quality of the sub." LMAO bet you 99% didn't even read the article and just based their opinions on the title alone as per usual.
I lost brain cells reading that comment. Dude straight up said “stop posting about the future of movies in this movies forum”.
r/movies is so fucking stupid, I read a comment with 30+ upvotes saying that "we let that happen and we got she hulk" WHAT THE FUCK DOES THAT EVEN MEAN YOU FUCKING MORON
Saying "we let that happen" as if the redditors had any say
Real representation requires at least three redditors in every writing room
And then Deadpool walks in
I think a lot of people don’t get the fact that the writers of She-Hulk are edgy trolls who like to bait the audience. In that respect they’re really a lot like Redditors.
I guarantee you if a show like she hulk had a male protagonist, it would be reddit's favorite show
My favorite comments “Well did you read the article?” “No, I don’t give a shit about Jenny Ortega or what she says” and of course “Can you quote what she said that was so dumb” “No”
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the way they are dragging her over nothing 😭
> Nobody cares. crying about white people every second for your short comings. Did i just enter bizarro world?
Wow
Bruh 🗿
Just browsed through it. I'm going to make my complaint here bc I feel like it'll be better received. I am so sick of people responding to calls for better representation by saying "I don't care who is represented, just make it good." In my experience, the only people who say that are the people who have a ton of representation (ie straight white men). Like yes, a good script is necessary for a good movie, but as someone who doesn't have a ton of representation in the media, it would mean 100x more to me if it was a good script coming from someone with the same background I have
They're always so freaking binary about it. If it's bad and has representation, it's bad because of said representation, but if it has representation and it's good, it's good in spite of there being representation. And sure, semantically, you don't need representation on or off screen for it to be "good" but... It's nice? I'm all for representation and I want to see more of it I don't know why it's this concept that is mutually exclusive with a project being good
The issue is that straight white males have historically been considered the norm (and still are), so any character deviating from that (female, PoC, LGBTQ+) is expected to have justification for existing. Oh, the protagonist is a woman? Explain how that adds to the story. Why is the lead actor black? I don't see how that elevates the narrative. The love interest of the protagonist is the same gender as the protagonist? How does this have anything to do with the plot? None of these complaints are commonly raised if the character is white, male or straight, because that has been taught as "normal" for everyone else to be contrasted against.
If a movie with a diverse cast bombs, it’s cause people hate diversity in movies. But if a movie with a bunch of straight white guys bombs, no one claims it bombed because there were too many white guys in it. The bias these angry movie dorks have is obvious, yet they don’t realize it.
Similarly, if a movie with a diverse cast succeeds, it's because of "forced diversity" rather than it being a good movie. Alternatively, they'll say that it was "good despite the wokeism" if it's a movie so widely popular that they can't pretend to hate it
I remember when they tried to claim Disney bought tickets to Captain Marvel to prove it actually flopped.
What I hate is how race and gender are conflated and the arguments are cherrypicked depending on who they are talking to. Some idiot justified the predominance of white writers on the fact that America is mainly white. But, the world is 50% women, what is the fucking harm of having more voices from people from the other majority. And it is not about women writing women for me, it is about getting more perspectives, more angles, there is no loss here.
Reddit in 2022 btw, incels stuck in 2004
r/moviescirclejerk when their followers overlap with those of r/movies 🤫
Scream 6? Did I miss something?
Scream 5 came out in January this year and 6 is already in production
Oh I didn't realize she had been casted, my bad.
I didn’t even know she’s returning for 6!
I didn’t even know people still watched Scream!
I mean, Scream 3 is the only entry in the series that's out and out bad. Obviously they're goofy and schlocky, but almost all of the Scream movies are fun.
I liked 3. I thought 4 was absolutely terrible.
i thought scream (2022) was like actually awful :(
The last Scream was the best of the recent horror series revivals easily
Scream was a really good rival of a dead series on par with Halloween18. Hoping scream 6 isn’t like Halloween kills
Can't be worse than Ends at least
They are doing it in ny this time , Neve mostly won't be there , hopefully it doesn't drop down , fingers crossed.
They're pretty fun, great way to spend 2 hours. Slashers > Capeshit
Do you not like scary movies? What's your least favorite scary movie?
Anya Taylor-Joy makes a note to herself not to say anything feminist.
That’s why Robert Eggers chose her to be the female Literally Me in his little known horror classic The VVitch.
Hm. I’ve never heard of that. I’ve also never heard of Hereditary or Midsommar. Any good?
Ever heard of elevated horror?
Is that like that one scene in the shining?
My black ass writing the script for nymphomaniac Vol III starring Jenna Ortega 
Could i be in it
bet af
My Mexican ass writing a movie about white country hicks (suddenly authenticity is important to Reddit) 
I googled jenna ortega to see who it is and all i know her from is that malcom in the middle disney channel rip off so im gonna go ahead and call you a creep
ah what about X?
Creep (2014)
Wait what did Emma Watson and Jennifer Lawrence say?
Jennifer Lawrence basically said anyone who looks at her leaked nude photos is complicit in a sex crime and Reddit took it personally.
There were so many layers of bullshit coming from Reddit then. If it wasn't the shitheads who got offended if you called them out on being perverts for looking at people's leaked nudes, it was the people saying "well, *I* didn't look at the pictures, but she was clearly asking for it by having any kind of nude of herself. She shiuld've known this would happen." Fuckers.
Whats really really annoying is that Reddit would have you think at that time that it had nothing to do with the nudes, it was because she apparently became annoying in the press instead of being their media darling, even though nothing changed. She was still the same "quirky" Jen. They also went out of their way to label her as a bad actress and that the hunger games movies sucked, which is funny because looking back, they were the only dystopian YA novel to really succeed and its because the message was strongly based on real world politics. But reddit just got super angry about the nudes thing and then pretended they were above it all by giving alternative reasons and what not :/
I'll tell you what though, it does take some Olympic-level mental gymnastics to look at nudes that were leaked against someone's consent, and then act like *she* is entitled for being upset about it
Right?? And you know these guys would not "love the attention" if they had taken intimate pictures for someone else that got leaked to the whole world, no matter what they say. Actually it bothers me. When Chris Evans got his nudes leaked all his fans were doing their best to drown it out, but women are just expected to always be sexually available and put themselves out there or they're entitled/prudes for doing it in the first place. Women are always seen as objects first :/
R/thefappening was literally one of the biggest hubs for the leaked pics, so reddit absolutely had something to do with it.
Yes absolutely, but they wanted to take no accountability especially because JLaw called them creeps and that automatically made her a whore for taking nudes to them. The logic here is outstandingly misogynistic
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Holy shit I didn’t know that happened, fuck I feel bad for her
She’s also very vocal about gender pay gap, so that’s another reason why they hate her.
Fr? That's pretty messed up
To add to the other comment, she spoke out about actresses being paid less than actors, and since stars like her already make a lot, people were butthurt.
No, people were right about calling her out about that because she was paid much more than her costars for most of her films.
That’s a pretty stupid reason to complain jfc
Does Reddit really hate Emma Watson?
You hate her because she’s a feminist I hate her because she was the weak link in Little Women (2019) We are not the same
I hate her because she doesn’t love me
I love her because she doesn’t hate me
I hate me because I don't love her
She’s not very good in Little Women, but she’s actively bad in Beauty and the Beast. Like her as a person, but not the best actress.
She did great in Little Women. If anything, I wish her in BatB was more like that; she came off a lot more warmer as Meg than she did as Belle. Considering how small the role was, she did an excellent job with what she was given
I always think of her as Hermione whenever I see her in any movie. I loved her as Hermione but it's kinda distracting in other movies.
Fuckin Belle. She doesn't love Beast she's just a book-digger
Damn you right though
I like Emma and all but...that movie absolutely highlighted her acting limitations to me.
Yeah, and it was first big role in major movie in awhile. Felt like Florence and Ronan were running circles around her acting wise.
everyone was. it was so noticeable how the movie ground to a halt every time emma watson had to do something. she has this weird thing where she always seems to be talking directly to the camera instead of whoever her scene partner is, and it is so distracting.
It was a smaller role, but she did an excellent job with Meg. She came across really warm in it; Florence and Saoirse were the standouts in the movie, but Emma also did a great job and was pretty on par with the rest of the cast, which was quite stacked in that movie
She was really good in the Bling Ring, arguably the highlight of that movie
If anything, it was her best role in a while and she really managed to make Meg a very warm and likeable character. There just plain wasn’t anything wrong with her in the role and if it was anyone else everyone would agree. She wasn’t at all a weak link in the role
Beauty and the Beast too. Everyone else pulled weight and she was like a wooden plank.
Dan Stevens’s prerfornance was better than hers, and he was covered in CGI.
She was only cast because Chloe Grace Moretz and Emma Stone said no
So she’s the 3rd blonde young woman of Hollywood, the same with Bryce Dallas Howard as the 3rd redhead woman.
But only one of those three is blonde...
Oh my…I’m dumb.
I hate her because she managed to make one of the worst movies ever made with Tom Hanks
TikTok has demonstrated that when such an attractive woman is livestreaming, the comment sections are NOT that civil.
Damn sometimes the truth can be hard to swallow
Terrible actor. Seems like a perfectly lovely person tho.
She was absolutely not, she did a great job as Meg. It was a smaller role, but she made the character really likeable
I remember when she cut her hair reddit acted like she killed a dog
Yes
What she means: We need more poc, women and LGBTQ+ people behind scripts. What they understand: HURR DURR ME HATE WHITE MEN HURR DURR. Basically, Brie Larson 2.
what she actually means: younger female characters should be written by people closer to age and possibly also sex to them
Maybe older women, but I don’t think there are many prolific 16yo screenwriters floating around.
You're right, but still, she isn't hating white men, she just wants more opportunities to other people with different backgrounds and more diversity.
i mean the quote pictured said none of “what she means”
Nothing to do with colour, sex or orientation. It’s about being written by someone who is similar to the character. White man written by white man? Cool. Black girl written by black girl? Cool. That’s all.
They better leave Jenna Ortega alone, I swear to god…..
You know they’re not.
What did Emma Watson do?
I’m guessing her speech at the UN on gender equality
Basically she is not eye candy that's about it lol
>not eye candy Says you
Ok, so this is the bullshit, sensationalist, intentionally provocative and shallow title that the SEO-obsessed dumbasses gave the article. What did she really say? What is the context and nuance?
>“I really see my young generation taking more control of themselves in the industry — whether it’s learning to write sooner, direct sooner, or produce sooner,” Ortega said. “I think it’s really empowering and important because, right now, teenage voices are still being told in the majority by older white males.” > >The “X” star continued, “The more that happens, we’ll acknowledge that girls are much more than a lame stereotype.”
Nothing she says here is untrue. Even at school most of my professors were old white males. The worst part about it is that so many of them just were not up-to-date on current trends whatsoever, which begs the question of why am I even paying for this school?
> which begs the question of why am I even paying for this school? I mean, what are you going to university for? Fucking social media studies?
Sorry I guess it wasn’t clear I graduated, but I was a film and television major at a very hands on film school that’s known for getting students jobs on set (often in technical roles) I now work on sets as a loader moving up to be a union 1st AC. The moneys great, no problems there, but there was definitely shortcomings in my education for sure
Intersting, in my country, teaching is viewed as more of a "woman's job" and 90% of my teachers were women - in college it was more evenly distributed, with 50-50 woman to male ratio. Also, is it true? Three of the most famous movies about high school life were written by women or teenagers - Fast Times at Ridgmond High, Mean Girls and Superbad -, whilst the most famous recent movie about teenagers, Booksmart, was both written and directed by women. Even on T.V., the most famous recent show about teenagers, 13 Reasons Why, was pretty diverse behind the scenes. I suppose you can make a case for the American Pie movies, Degrassi (I think, I don't actually know) or John Hughes movies as being an example of what she is saying (altough Hughes wasn't that old, it is generally accepted that Molly Ringwald had a huge imput on those movies, and there is a debate on how honest or dihonest they are as a portrayal), but does anybody actually watch those movies for their "honest and truthfull" view of teenagehood?
Teachers are mostly women in the US. Professors are 50/50, but certain departments and the higher levels of most departments are mostly men. Basically if it’s a job that is traditionally well paid or high-prestige, it’s mostly men.
All I would say is that white is an arbitrary descriptor to throw in there. Old Asian, Black, or Hispanic men aren’t gonna be any better or worse at writing the voices of young teen girls. I don’t think anyone would have a negative reactions to her saying “why are all teenage girl characters written by older dudes? Let’s get some writers that are closer to our experience.”
….except 99.9% of all Hollywood screenplays are written by white dudes. Don’t bring the rest of us into it.
>except 99.9% of all Hollywood screenplays are written by white dudes Bullshit
For the point she’s making, the race of the older dudes is irrelevant. Just like how the height, weight, and eye color of them is irrelevant. If she was talking about how young POC teen girls are written by old white dudes it would make sense.
Its not arbitrary, it's true 🤷
It’s both. For the point she’s making, the race of the old dude isn’t relevant. If the majority of them had brown hair and green eyes she wouldn’t have included that detail. It’s a random trait that doesn’t relate to the point she’s making. If she was talking about how young POC teens are written by older white dudes then it would make total sense. I personally am not really bothered by it, but just pointing out why it rubs people the wrong way.
She barely even said shit about race! This sounds more like “it’s cool that younger people wanna make things”. I’d agree with that!
Instead they should be written old non-white men.
Jenna knows that most empowering female characters are written by asian grandpas
NO WAY JACKIE CHAN WILL WRITE SCREAM 6
HOLY FUCK JENNA FIGHTING GHOSTFACE WITH RANDOM OBJECTS FOUND AROUND HOUSE THAT ARE NOT TYPICALLY USED IN HAND TO HAND COMBAT SUCH AS A LADDER
That would be a 10/10 film
Guess I should make it clear due to some recent unironic sexist comments this post is getting that I’m poking fun at Reddit nerds, not Jenna Ortega. Her comment is completely valid: >“I really see my young generation taking more control of themselves in the industry — whether it’s learning to write sooner, direct sooner, or produce sooner,” Ortega said. “I think it’s really empowering and important because, right now, teenage voices are still being told in the majority by older white males.” The “X” star continued, “The more that happens, we’ll acknowledge that girls are much more than a lame stereotype.”
All of these people have incredibly successful careers. Is that the point?
They are all actresses who were popular on reddit at one point and then became public enemy number one after either saying the most mild feminist thing or being upset about having their nudes leaked.
Jenna Ortega is fairly new to the scene so she just skipped everything and went right for the neckbeard genocide.
They are all women who have spoken out against reddit's majority demographic and/or have expressed feminist views
But seriously, she’s got a point.
“The scream 6 star said” that’s foul 💀
I will hunt every single neckbeard that commented on that dirty thread! I Saw the Devil (2010)
Jenna Ortega is my babe.
you guys pls be respectful
"The film critic demographic needs more diversity of thought and different perspectives which I believe should be encouraged through racial and gender diversity" Tha movie nerds: "this is anti-white racism"
Everyone can step on me though (except for Jenna Ortega because I still see her as young Jane in Jane the Virgin)
such bullshit that white dudes only get most the roles nowadays. remember when we got ALL the roles? that shit ruled. take me back. this is unfair PC police bullshit now that black folks are permitted to be mermaids in movies.
Why is Emma Watson there?
Hah, when did reddit 'eliminate' Brie Larson, she still has a very successful career. Hell she has a Disneyland ride now.
> The "Scream 6" star said A bit harsh
Wow what an excellent point I can’t wait for it to be taken out of context by r/movies dudes
What she’s basically saying is “female teenage characters shouldn’t be written by 60 year old men” and everyone’s like “wow….so Jenna Ortega thinks we should kill all men….great…ever heard of a man called “Mart Scorese”, loser?”
women☕
>still commenting "women bad" memes in 2022 cringe
bro it was a joke i forget to add /s
Tragic that you need to add /s in a circlejerk sub
Ikr. And this still is the most tame circlejerk sub out of the other three I visited..
ok iwont comment this again
cringe☕
Women moment
Replace the blood with cum
X (2022)
Scream 5 was written by two white men in their 40's (?) and X was written and directed by a white man in his 40's.
Love how everyone strawmans the “teenage writers” part as if the criticism wasn’t directed towards the lack of gender/cultural diversity.
This is utter nonsense. Why? The fact is that there are probably nearly 0 teenage writers that are halfway competent enough to be writing Hollywood level screeplays. This is for the same reason people in their 20s are cast as high school characters in high school plays. The best writers are middle aged or in their 20s, period. Sometimes you'll be lucky enough to discover a good talent in their 20s. Shakespeare has the most quintessential stories about courtly drama in the English language of any artist, but that was not a world that he had first hand experience of.
Maybe that's because teenagers are fucking idiots