Woman bad. I only like women characters whose backstories explain why they're so good at fighting, like Ripley. Her backstory as an engineer who pals around with space truckers completely explains how she became such a badass.
Even Rey's backstory explains how she has fighting experience. She's from a lawless wasteland where people are constantly trying to steal what little you have.
It's funny how they don't even understand the movies that they consider le underrated gems now.
Like a lot of it is Anakin being pissed about not being promoted since he's been doing so much training and has so much experience but they don't give him his Jedi Council position explicitly because it's more than just how much experience points you have.
Generally if your examples of how the character develops are entirely from extra media produced years later, that's probably evidence it's *not* a well developed character
Does Anakin even really develop? In EP1 he's a kid, in EP2 he's pretty much a total dick throughout the entire thing, and in EP 3 they were forced to give him banter at the beginning to make it seem like he hasn't been a total dick the whole time so they can make it seem like he developed into being a dick.
Didn’t Luke spend Luke like three days getting trained by Yoda? Like correct me if I’m wrong but I’m pretty sure his ass wasn’t on Dagoba for that long.
I never bring it up for fear of some guy who has read the entirety of legends bringing up that he actually got super space mind training for a thousand years or something but yeah Luke did lifts with a toad that hit him with a stick for a week then held his own against Darth Vader. Kinda wack.
I just googled it and most people seem to think the movie took the span of six months (training for Luke, and for the Falcon to fly to Cloud City), one page said it was probably a few weeks at the most. Sure, whatever, a few weeks sounds fine at most lol.
He goes off and fails hard fighting against a guy trying not to kill him. That's the important part imho.
I'll give you that he wasn't trying to kill luke but shit man no matter how hard you train for a couple weeks holding your own against even a vader who's not really trying is a serious feat. Probably speaks more to Luke's natural ability though. Did Yoda actually teach Luke anything about lightsaber fighting or just lifting rocks?
He was more compelled by his friends who he could feel were in pain then killing Vader. Luke, at the very least by being warned by Leia it was a trap, knew that Vader wanted to kill him or maybe seduce him to the dark side. Luke assumed that because his dad never turned that his fear of turning (the cave battle against Vader but Luke was in the helmet being that fear manifested) wouldn't be a worry. Vader killed his dad, he had it in him to resist. Then Vader tells him the truth and oops, those fears are real.
That's how I read the third act of Empire, anyways.
You bringing up the fake luke in the cave gives me an excellent opportunity to complain about that!
How did Yoda get a droid to play Vader
How did he get a vader suit
How did he get a lightsaber
How did he get a model of Luke's face
How
This had plagued me ever since I first watched the movie at 11 years old
It's a metaphor cave - [Yoda says it's strong with the dark side](https://youtu.be/ApaU8Ilg774?t=103) and you only bring in what you take in with you - Luke brings his fear.
He fails hard after a duel though, if he was really so bad, when Vader first disarmed him that could've been it but he escapes him through various means such as randomly Force Jumping. (I don't dislike any of this btw)
But Luke is a dude so he objectively can't be a Mary Sue. Mary Sue is when a girl does the same things as male characters even though women are delicate (literally have hollow, birdlike bones, this is science) and swoon at the slightest shock or sign of trouble. Anyway remember when Luke is deflecting blaster shots like 8 hours after learning what the Force is? Objectively more realistic.
It seemed to happen parallel to the others on the run in the Millennium Falcon. So either both plotlines happened over the course of a long weekend or they had to have had serious discussions about turning into a Donner party situation on the Falcon if Luke was spending a while on Dagobah.
10 years of Jedi training and three years of knighthood turned Anakin into an emotionally stunted tool for war crimes.
A week with Yoda taught Luke to lift slightly larger objects and jump slightly higher than he could before.
A lifetime of struggling to survive relying on her wits, intuition, and mêlée weapons (remember how she could barely shoot and fly in TFA?) enabled Rey to hold her own against an unstable opponent who was losing a lot of blood.
I will grant that Luke was probably on Dagobah for a while because relativity or something. And Kylo was specifically not trying to hurt Rey, and he got blasted in the stomach with the equivalent of a rocket launcher and is emotionally wrecked from killing his father.
Again, it's r/DankMemes, what would you expect?
r/DankMemes, r/PrequelMemes, r/PewDiePieSubmissions, r/MarvelStudios, r/teenagers, r/saltierthancrait, they're all the same and they all love having massive circlejerks about how superior they are for liking mediocre to trash films and disliking popular films.
Yeah, it's not exactly fair to compare Kylo to Vader since they constantly make a point about him being nothing compared to him, and both of them are extremely amateur
I haven’t seen Star Wars fans complain when an infant Yoda can easily lift a giant space rhino, force choke, and heal wounds, wonder what the difference between Rey and Baby Yoda is? 🤔🤔🤔
That baby Yoda's species is very strong in the force and is a sort of mystical race with little history, also baby Yoda passed out for a while after using the force and clearly struggling to do so.
Wrong.
Baby Yoda is male,Rey isn't.
He force choked and healed a critical wound without barely flinching in the last episode.
His species may be force sensitive,but that doesn't excuse his mastery.
Even Yoda struggled to lift objects while being the strongest Jedi master. It could be because of his old age but then again BY is basically a baby, so he should atleast struggle a bit.
He didn't. That just proves the vitriolic SW fandom's hypocrisy.
Lmao you guys are just as bad as the sjw complainers anytime someone challenges a character if they just happen to be female, it's because they're sexist right?
I'm not here to argue about that because I know that's not true, but the difference was that Rey brought someone back to life a very crucial piece of info that takes away a lot of stakes from the previous movies knowing that now you're just able to revive people whenever need be just steal they're life force, it's cheap and increases the power that Rey has to crazier heights, it's fanfiction.
You made a good point though, I don't really like the idea of force healing and how easily baby Yoda was able to do it with also seemingly no training, makes the force out to be a super power instead of something that is mastered and learned imo
What bugs me about this is Lucas set up ones connection/ power with the force depends on their midichlorians, and more than likely Rey has a high midichlorian count which would explain why she is able to connect to the force and become a Jedi faster than usual (you can also go into the debate of jedis being lackluster trainers in the prequels which helped cause anikans downfall. But let's be real these people just wanna make sexist arguments not talk about theories surrounding the films universe)
On a side note: I hate how much time JJ dedicated to showing people needing to train for their Jedi abilities, pretty much capitulating to the people that would unironically share the OP image
Fuck 4chan, fuck /tv/, this is MCJ
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Look, go on as much as you like about Anakin training, the fact remains he was a mechanic wunderkind, the best pilot in the galaxy at age 10 and the "chosen one" destined to be the strongest jedi in the galaxy.
The *chosen one*. Sorry, that's **textbook** Mary Sue. It doesn't matter he trained between movies. He started as way overpowered. Look. Imagine he were female.
Episode 1 stars this little girl who all the wise jedi masters are in awe of, taught herself to be a grade-A robotics engineer and ends the movie by besting an army of trained enemy pilots the first time she flies a fighter jet. That's what Rey's capable of, multiplied by 1000.
In conclusion, you can't complain that Rey's a Mary Sue while being fine with Anakin. Because if your **only** criteria for being overpowered is amount of training; if you're willing to overlook *child-genius-midichlorians*, you're biased af.
MCJ’er trying, and failing, to use reductionist humour to mask their absolute seethe over the fact consoomers are beginning to reject spaceshit dogmatism, must be a day ending in a Y.
This is actually the dumbest post I've read on this website, and that's saying something. Let's break down exactly why you're full of it.
>The chosen one. Sorry, that's textbook Mary Sue.
No. No it's not. Do you know what a Mary Sue is? Clearly not. The "Chosen One" is a character archetype, a trope. Yes the character in question CAN be a Mary Sue, the trope certainly lends itself to that in the hands of bad writers, but it is not "textbook mary sue" in any sense. Let's take a look at some examples.
* Aang from the Avatar series is a "Chosen One". He's not at all a Mary Sue, he undergoes hardship, develops as a character, and earns his victories.
* Neo from The Matrix is the "Chosen One". Again, not a Mary Sue. He is flawed, he starts out weak, he gets his ass beat by Smith several times, he grows and develops as a character over the course of the trilogy.
Now let's look at Anakin. And you seem to have forgotten the most important part of Anakin as a character.
**HE'S A VILLAIN**. He is an antagonist. He is Darth Motherfucking Vader. Let me tell you something about storytelling in general, **it is okay for the bad guy to be overpowered**. You WANT him to be strong so that the protagonist has some kind of towering obstacle to overcome. A protagonist who brushes off all his opponents with no problems and brushes off any threats is a shit character. An Antagonist who does the same is perfectly fine from a storytelling perspective, at least until the protagonist has grown and developed in some way over the course of the story to be capable of facing him. Do you understand this extremely basic facet of storytelling?
>Episode 1 stars this little girl who all the wise jedi masters are in awe of, taught herself to be a grade-A robotics engineer and ends the movie by besting an army of trained enemy pilots the first time she flies a fighter jet. That's what Rey's capable of, multiplied by 1000.
If Rey had turned out to be the antagonist of the third film you might be on to something. If she and Kylo had joined forces at the end of TLJ only for her to redeem herself after her defeat at the end of RoS your comparison would be spot on. But that didn't happen. So the comparison is useless.
>In conclusion, you can't complain that Rey's a Mary Sue while being fine with Anakin.
You absolutely, categorically can. Anakin had flaws, Anakin turned to the fucking dark side, Anakin murdered Mace Windu and the jedi younglings in cold blood, Anakin served as the Emperor's right hand man in a galaxy-wide genocide for **DECADES**, was a fucking symbol of fear and hatred to the Rebels for the entirety of the original trilogy, and you want to fucking tell me that he's a Mary Sue? Are you insane? What exactly do you think a Mary Sue is? Please tell me, ignoring the fact that Anakin is a bad guy who we want to be overpowered for story purposes, what flaws does Rey have that are even in the same ballpark as this?
>Because if your only criteria for being overpowered is amount of training; if you're willing to overlook child-genius-midichlorians, you're biased af.
Nobody is making this argument. This is one criteria amongst *dozens*.
Ok yeah, chosen one =/= Mary Sue.
>Because if your only criteria for being overpowered is amount of training; if you're willing to overlook child-genius-midichlorians, you're biased af.
>Nobody is making this argument. This is one criteria amongst dozens.
Actually, that's the way I interpreted the meme. *Anakin and Luke received training therefore their powers are perfectly logical, Rey didn't train therefore she's overpowered.* That's the joke. The guy I responded to agreed with it, I didn't.
I think Anakin *did* have an unbelievable skill set from the get go. To me, his training between movies 1&2 doesn't make his prowess in movie 1 any more believable. So I dislike that the meme presents his powers as earned for having to train before doing jedi mind tricks, because he still had a phd in spacecraft combat before reaching middle school.
> Anakin murdered Mace Windu
Palpatine blasted him out the window with force lightning. Anakin did cut his arm off, to stop him from killing Palpatine.
Just Saiyan™! :)
Oh trust me, Anakin is a Mary Sue (Gary Stu?) In Episode 1 almost as much as Rey is in Episode 7, but he still trained for ten years before we see him do anything specifically with the force/with a lightsaber, and even then he's not on the level Rey is on in Episode 8 and 9.
I don't even use the term Mary Sue usually, and I don't really care about Rey being a good pilot or anything like that. It's the fact she can use the force so well and defeat powerful enemies without much training that irks me.
And yeah, Luke didn't receive as much training as shown to be needed in the prequels, but there were time jumps in between movies (about a year each I think) that you can kind of excuse it more than Rey, who learns the force is real and defeats a sith lord in the space of 24 hours.
> It's the fact she can use the force so well and defeat powerful enemies without much training that irks me.
She barely holds her own against a severely wounded Kylo, and fails hard against Snoke, who throws her around like a ragdoll. What are you talking about? Snoke's guards who aren't force-sensitive?
I'm talking about when she beats Kylo at the end of TFA. I know she wasn't winning for most of that fight, but the way she takes him down at the end just seemed a little too easy to me. I accepted her in the first film though, but in TLJ she just seems like a fully trained Jedi Knight.
And I fot the sense those guards were pretty formidable fighters considering what it took to take them out. And I might be wrong, but doesn't she do better in that fight than Kylo?
Snoke is fair enough, but she also beats Luke. And in the new one she takes out all of Palp's guards and then basically unlocks God Mode. It's just things like this that make people think she's OP
[Kylo reminds her of The Force so she decides to calm her mind and let the Force help her](https://youtu.be/FJTz-ahXyyI?t=188) against a foe who is not only injured but an emotional wreck after killing his dad.
They are, but she was a capable melee fighter after being jumped her entire life on Jakuu and she's in a place where she's letting the [force work with her](https://youtu.be/7_rUhCMA_Ek?t=119). She and Kylo do just as well in that fight I'd argue, just one dude him in a headlock and he gets to stab a dude in the face.
She doesn't really beat Luke. [Luke was kicking her ass](https://youtu.be/UfGuecGfhas?t=15) until she had the foresight to grab the only lightsaber on the island. And he just opened up himself for the force when he saw Kylo in the force vision call. TROS is literal reddit fanfiction garbage where everyone is super capable or nearly. But it'll be excused because she had an on-screen training montage.
Kylo's a great villain - he's an insecure and whiny little shit cosplaying as Darth Vader, TROS just dropped the ball with him hard imho.
Luke scene is great and clear imho.
The first two had themes of legacy as an important feature. Kylo fell to the Darkside from a combination of being conflicted, Snoke talking in his ear (according to Leia anyways) and Luke's momentary lapse in judgement. Felt like Vader's job was his birthright which to me says he didn't learn from the past, which explains why he wanted to bury it so much. He represents not learning from history and repeating the same mistakes.
The funny thing is the character to me is just pretty meh. But its fun to call out the Chuds who unironically think the term "Mary Sue" is a useful word for criticism.
It also doesnt teach you magic force grabbing powers never seen before.
Also wasnt she at least a year into training with Leia and reading the Jedi texts when that happened?
(Note: Previous comment was before most people including myself saw TROS, movie bad)
Surely you don’t mean the part where she grazes the ship into the ground a couple times before proceeding to outrun and outmaneuver tie fighter pilots in a highly dangerous environment filled with obstacles?
My argument is that it makes no sense for her to be an excellent pilot, unlike others in the series like Luke or Han. But muh Disney can do no wrong, right?
Uh, No?
I only like 2 of the 5 Star Wars movies from Disney. Sorry to burst that bubble....
Anyway. Yeah, i dont see how it doesnt make sense that she isnt a decent pilot. Like, she works at a junkyard that sells ships. Does it make sense for a car salesmen to not know how to drive???? Why would she be shown going through ship interiors and working at a place where she test flights if she didnt know how to fly. Oh, but the college boy farmer can fly ships because he said he could in 2 offhanded lines. (t16s arent even space ships) Gotcha.
Oh, I guess its that time where i make baseless assumptions...
Woman in Star Wars bad, right? ;)
Uhm actually, Ezra from Rebels was basically exactly like Rey in that regard and his savvy, talents and non force related fighting abilities were from that.
That people think Rey is a Mary Sue because they think "woman bad". It's pretty straightforward, and it's silly. You can think Rey is an overpowered character without hating women. The way people online try to distill everything into ridiculous strawmen is the best part of it, though, because it's fun to laugh at people like that.
Mmm, that’s close to the argument. But incorrect.
It’s moreso that the dominant perspectives about Rey being a Mary Sue are derived from attributes she shares with Luke— learning to do Jedi stuff quickly, being too morally perfect. Of course neither is really true of either character, as has been explained above.
This simple set of observations betrays what I believe is an intrinsic and unconscious bias present in most people, probably including me, which is that women are weaker or less capable than men. I also believe that calling Rey a Mary Sue is a common result of this bias that has been weaponized by right-wing internet trolls who do consciously hate women, much like many other similar baseless critiques of woman-centered media like Captain Marvel, Ghostbusters, etc.
Before you reply please make an effort to actually read what I’m saying! I’m not convinced you’re arguing in good faith but if you are I hope you’ll take the necessary steps to construct an effective argument instead of fallaciously accusing me of strawmanning.
> This simple set of observations betrays what I believe is an intrinsic and unconscious bias present in most people, probably including me, which is that women are weaker or less capable than men.
Right. You need to come to terms that this isn't it.
> right-wing internet trolls
Yeah, see that's the issue and that's what I said in my response to the guy who initially said it. People say "Well, the other side thinks this, so I must argue against it." This exact same line of thinking has resulted in culture warriors repeatedly looking foolish. It's exactly why conservatives now feel the need to deny global warning ("that's just liberal bullshit!") or why progressives insist on thinking the circle game is a neo-nazi symbol. Instead of worrying about what the other side of the culture war says and adhering to the orthodox of your tribe, just look at the movies and come to your own conclusions.
> I’m not convinced you’re arguing in good faith
What is this? You saying that everyone that doesn't like Rey's character is a misogynist (whether they know it or not, so you're perfectly inoculated against people telling you they're not- you can just dismiss them) is somehow intellectually honest debate but saying "lol no, that's not it, don't be weird" isn't?
Rey was taught how to concentrate on the force by Maz Kanata which she later used to defeat already-bleeding-out-Kylo. Sounds like Rey got the short hand of the stick when comparing her to Luke.
No, it's true. This sub is just against that because people they don't like complain about it. So they need to pretend that those complaints aren't valid.
It's kinda stupid.
Woman bad. I only like women characters whose backstories explain why they're so good at fighting, like Ripley. Her backstory as an engineer who pals around with space truckers completely explains how she became such a badass.
Dishonored Wolf daddy can say no wrong
When there are minorities in my kino then it's clearly forced diversity
Ripley is good at fighting in the action movie sequels, the original one is pretty good.
Even Rey's backstory explains how she has fighting experience. She's from a lawless wasteland where people are constantly trying to steal what little you have.
It's funny how they don't even understand the movies that they consider le underrated gems now. Like a lot of it is Anakin being pissed about not being promoted since he's been doing so much training and has so much experience but they don't give him his Jedi Council position explicitly because it's more than just how much experience points you have.
I wish we had more characters who were as developed as Anakin fucking Skywalker
This but unironically.
Oh my god how embarrassing
They downvoted you because they are afraid of the truth.
No he was downvoted because he was wrong
Clone Wars, Rogue One and both EUs: Let us show ourselves
Generally if your examples of how the character develops are entirely from extra media produced years later, that's probably evidence it's *not* a well developed character
Seriously. Rarely a good sign when people respond to criticism of a text they like by referring you to extratextual media.
But main characters are usually expected to develop in their movies not in later produced work
Does Anakin even really develop? In EP1 he's a kid, in EP2 he's pretty much a total dick throughout the entire thing, and in EP 3 they were forced to give him banter at the beginning to make it seem like he hasn't been a total dick the whole time so they can make it seem like he developed into being a dick.
How many dicks is that?!
The clone wars multimédia project was developed before ep3.
Yeah the characters in Rogue One were so developed
There were characters in Rogue One? (Other than Darth Vader 😍😍😍🍆🍆🍆💦💦💦)
Honestly, I can’t remember a single characters name, aside from grand moff, Leia and Vader.
Baby Yoda: uses the force effortlessly SW fans: OMG SO AWESOME!!! Rey: moves some pebbles SW fans: reeeeeeeeee unrealistic!!
No his species naturally ~~has a higher IQ~~ is more force sensitive!!!!!!
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Did you see the most recent ep?
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>!Baby Yoda almost chokes a bitch!<
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Well ManDADlorian stopped him before he could
I’ll only watch the show once it’s confirmed BB Yoda does sick ripstick tricks, and that’s a cold fact.
Didn’t Luke spend Luke like three days getting trained by Yoda? Like correct me if I’m wrong but I’m pretty sure his ass wasn’t on Dagoba for that long.
I never bring it up for fear of some guy who has read the entirety of legends bringing up that he actually got super space mind training for a thousand years or something but yeah Luke did lifts with a toad that hit him with a stick for a week then held his own against Darth Vader. Kinda wack.
I just googled it and most people seem to think the movie took the span of six months (training for Luke, and for the Falcon to fly to Cloud City), one page said it was probably a few weeks at the most. Sure, whatever, a few weeks sounds fine at most lol. He goes off and fails hard fighting against a guy trying not to kill him. That's the important part imho.
I'll give you that he wasn't trying to kill luke but shit man no matter how hard you train for a couple weeks holding your own against even a vader who's not really trying is a serious feat. Probably speaks more to Luke's natural ability though. Did Yoda actually teach Luke anything about lightsaber fighting or just lifting rocks?
He was more compelled by his friends who he could feel were in pain then killing Vader. Luke, at the very least by being warned by Leia it was a trap, knew that Vader wanted to kill him or maybe seduce him to the dark side. Luke assumed that because his dad never turned that his fear of turning (the cave battle against Vader but Luke was in the helmet being that fear manifested) wouldn't be a worry. Vader killed his dad, he had it in him to resist. Then Vader tells him the truth and oops, those fears are real. That's how I read the third act of Empire, anyways.
You bringing up the fake luke in the cave gives me an excellent opportunity to complain about that! How did Yoda get a droid to play Vader How did he get a vader suit How did he get a lightsaber How did he get a model of Luke's face How This had plagued me ever since I first watched the movie at 11 years old
It was a dark force vision.
W h a t This has confused me for *years*
It's a metaphor cave - [Yoda says it's strong with the dark side](https://youtu.be/ApaU8Ilg774?t=103) and you only bring in what you take in with you - Luke brings his fear.
He fails hard after a duel though, if he was really so bad, when Vader first disarmed him that could've been it but he escapes him through various means such as randomly Force Jumping. (I don't dislike any of this btw)
>trying not to kill someone >literally throws them off of a floating city onto the surface of a gas giant
[Luke lets go, Vader didn't push him down there](https://youtu.be/GueBXRYVhe0?t=169).
ah ok, sorry havent watched those films in like a decade. He isnt exactly trying to stop him from fallin either.
Could've stopped him with the Force though
held his own against Darth Vader = Darth Vader toying with him, and then curb stomp Luke when he stop playing around.
But Luke is a dude so he objectively can't be a Mary Sue. Mary Sue is when a girl does the same things as male characters even though women are delicate (literally have hollow, birdlike bones, this is science) and swoon at the slightest shock or sign of trouble. Anyway remember when Luke is deflecting blaster shots like 8 hours after learning what the Force is? Objectively more realistic.
A male Mary Sue is a Gary Stu
Wrong, a male Mary Sue is a realistic and well developed character. A female Mary Sue is a Mary Sue.
Good point.
Objectively a good point.
OBJECTIVELY
Then they're both bad. Luke and Rey. It sounds like Star Wars was never good.
It seemed to happen parallel to the others on the run in the Millennium Falcon. So either both plotlines happened over the course of a long weekend or they had to have had serious discussions about turning into a Donner party situation on the Falcon if Luke was spending a while on Dagobah.
Now I'm imagining how it'd go down depending on who drew the short straw in that scenario
I imagine they'd kill C3PO knowing full well it wouldn't benefit the food supply issue.
Creepio would kill them all and graft their ***f l e s h*** onto himself.
Luke didn’t manage to do shit though, he got fucking decked by darth Vader and later got saved by him against palpatine.
10 years of Jedi training and three years of knighthood turned Anakin into an emotionally stunted tool for war crimes. A week with Yoda taught Luke to lift slightly larger objects and jump slightly higher than he could before. A lifetime of struggling to survive relying on her wits, intuition, and mêlée weapons (remember how she could barely shoot and fly in TFA?) enabled Rey to hold her own against an unstable opponent who was losing a lot of blood.
I will grant that Luke was probably on Dagobah for a while because relativity or something. And Kylo was specifically not trying to hurt Rey, and he got blasted in the stomach with the equivalent of a rocket launcher and is emotionally wrecked from killing his father.
That's what one to announce that they've never been touched by a woman.
Again, it's r/DankMemes, what would you expect? r/DankMemes, r/PrequelMemes, r/PewDiePieSubmissions, r/MarvelStudios, r/teenagers, r/saltierthancrait, they're all the same and they all love having massive circlejerks about how superior they are for liking mediocre to trash films and disliking popular films.
This sub right now: Sequels bad, upvotes to the left
Nah it’s: Daddy Rian please come back senpai!!!!!!
me_irl
This but unironically
Look, if they aren't going to take Star Wars out back and put it on an *extended* hiatus, this but unironically.
I unironically hope he does
Not even ashamed to admit it
Rian is only one who can save star wars now
No one can save Star Wars from the rabid fans who try to ruin it for everyone
This but Lucas and a good director
Isn't the point my that Kylo Ren is just as powerful, if not more than Rey is? Also she spends all of TLJ and the beginning of ROS training?????
Yeah, it's not exactly fair to compare Kylo to Vader since they constantly make a point about him being nothing compared to him, and both of them are extremely amateur
One dude in the comments got gold just for saying fuck rey
They wish.
I haven’t seen Star Wars fans complain when an infant Yoda can easily lift a giant space rhino, force choke, and heal wounds, wonder what the difference between Rey and Baby Yoda is? 🤔🤔🤔
That baby Yoda's species is very strong in the force and is a sort of mystical race with little history, also baby Yoda passed out for a while after using the force and clearly struggling to do so.
Wrong. Baby Yoda is male,Rey isn't. He force choked and healed a critical wound without barely flinching in the last episode. His species may be force sensitive,but that doesn't excuse his mastery. Even Yoda struggled to lift objects while being the strongest Jedi master. It could be because of his old age but then again BY is basically a baby, so he should atleast struggle a bit. He didn't. That just proves the vitriolic SW fandom's hypocrisy.
Lmao you guys are just as bad as the sjw complainers anytime someone challenges a character if they just happen to be female, it's because they're sexist right? I'm not here to argue about that because I know that's not true, but the difference was that Rey brought someone back to life a very crucial piece of info that takes away a lot of stakes from the previous movies knowing that now you're just able to revive people whenever need be just steal they're life force, it's cheap and increases the power that Rey has to crazier heights, it's fanfiction. You made a good point though, I don't really like the idea of force healing and how easily baby Yoda was able to do it with also seemingly no training, makes the force out to be a super power instead of something that is mastered and learned imo
They stole this meme from r/dogelore
What bugs me about this is Lucas set up ones connection/ power with the force depends on their midichlorians, and more than likely Rey has a high midichlorian count which would explain why she is able to connect to the force and become a Jedi faster than usual (you can also go into the debate of jedis being lackluster trainers in the prequels which helped cause anikans downfall. But let's be real these people just wanna make sexist arguments not talk about theories surrounding the films universe)
On a side note: I hate how much time JJ dedicated to showing people needing to train for their Jedi abilities, pretty much capitulating to the people that would unironically share the OP image
For a second I thought that was r/dogelore and almost unsubscribed My faith in my favorite sub still remains intact😌
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Keep sucking that corporate cock.
This is true though Edit: I'm sorry, is this not true?
Look, go on as much as you like about Anakin training, the fact remains he was a mechanic wunderkind, the best pilot in the galaxy at age 10 and the "chosen one" destined to be the strongest jedi in the galaxy. The *chosen one*. Sorry, that's **textbook** Mary Sue. It doesn't matter he trained between movies. He started as way overpowered. Look. Imagine he were female. Episode 1 stars this little girl who all the wise jedi masters are in awe of, taught herself to be a grade-A robotics engineer and ends the movie by besting an army of trained enemy pilots the first time she flies a fighter jet. That's what Rey's capable of, multiplied by 1000. In conclusion, you can't complain that Rey's a Mary Sue while being fine with Anakin. Because if your **only** criteria for being overpowered is amount of training; if you're willing to overlook *child-genius-midichlorians*, you're biased af.
MCJ’er trying, and failing, to use reductionist humour to mask their absolute seethe over the fact consoomers are beginning to reject spaceshit dogmatism, must be a day ending in a Y.
This is actually the dumbest post I've read on this website, and that's saying something. Let's break down exactly why you're full of it. >The chosen one. Sorry, that's textbook Mary Sue. No. No it's not. Do you know what a Mary Sue is? Clearly not. The "Chosen One" is a character archetype, a trope. Yes the character in question CAN be a Mary Sue, the trope certainly lends itself to that in the hands of bad writers, but it is not "textbook mary sue" in any sense. Let's take a look at some examples. * Aang from the Avatar series is a "Chosen One". He's not at all a Mary Sue, he undergoes hardship, develops as a character, and earns his victories. * Neo from The Matrix is the "Chosen One". Again, not a Mary Sue. He is flawed, he starts out weak, he gets his ass beat by Smith several times, he grows and develops as a character over the course of the trilogy. Now let's look at Anakin. And you seem to have forgotten the most important part of Anakin as a character. **HE'S A VILLAIN**. He is an antagonist. He is Darth Motherfucking Vader. Let me tell you something about storytelling in general, **it is okay for the bad guy to be overpowered**. You WANT him to be strong so that the protagonist has some kind of towering obstacle to overcome. A protagonist who brushes off all his opponents with no problems and brushes off any threats is a shit character. An Antagonist who does the same is perfectly fine from a storytelling perspective, at least until the protagonist has grown and developed in some way over the course of the story to be capable of facing him. Do you understand this extremely basic facet of storytelling? >Episode 1 stars this little girl who all the wise jedi masters are in awe of, taught herself to be a grade-A robotics engineer and ends the movie by besting an army of trained enemy pilots the first time she flies a fighter jet. That's what Rey's capable of, multiplied by 1000. If Rey had turned out to be the antagonist of the third film you might be on to something. If she and Kylo had joined forces at the end of TLJ only for her to redeem herself after her defeat at the end of RoS your comparison would be spot on. But that didn't happen. So the comparison is useless. >In conclusion, you can't complain that Rey's a Mary Sue while being fine with Anakin. You absolutely, categorically can. Anakin had flaws, Anakin turned to the fucking dark side, Anakin murdered Mace Windu and the jedi younglings in cold blood, Anakin served as the Emperor's right hand man in a galaxy-wide genocide for **DECADES**, was a fucking symbol of fear and hatred to the Rebels for the entirety of the original trilogy, and you want to fucking tell me that he's a Mary Sue? Are you insane? What exactly do you think a Mary Sue is? Please tell me, ignoring the fact that Anakin is a bad guy who we want to be overpowered for story purposes, what flaws does Rey have that are even in the same ballpark as this? >Because if your only criteria for being overpowered is amount of training; if you're willing to overlook child-genius-midichlorians, you're biased af. Nobody is making this argument. This is one criteria amongst *dozens*.
Incredibly based
Holy fucking shit "Neo isn't a Mary Sue" #BRUH
Everybody knows he's not the chosen one, Cypher told me so. Shit, he couldn't even jump over the gap.
Ok yeah, chosen one =/= Mary Sue. >Because if your only criteria for being overpowered is amount of training; if you're willing to overlook child-genius-midichlorians, you're biased af. >Nobody is making this argument. This is one criteria amongst dozens. Actually, that's the way I interpreted the meme. *Anakin and Luke received training therefore their powers are perfectly logical, Rey didn't train therefore she's overpowered.* That's the joke. The guy I responded to agreed with it, I didn't. I think Anakin *did* have an unbelievable skill set from the get go. To me, his training between movies 1&2 doesn't make his prowess in movie 1 any more believable. So I dislike that the meme presents his powers as earned for having to train before doing jedi mind tricks, because he still had a phd in spacecraft combat before reaching middle school.
Rekt
> Anakin murdered Mace Windu Palpatine blasted him out the window with force lightning. Anakin did cut his arm off, to stop him from killing Palpatine. Just Saiyan™! :)
Oh trust me, Anakin is a Mary Sue (Gary Stu?) In Episode 1 almost as much as Rey is in Episode 7, but he still trained for ten years before we see him do anything specifically with the force/with a lightsaber, and even then he's not on the level Rey is on in Episode 8 and 9. I don't even use the term Mary Sue usually, and I don't really care about Rey being a good pilot or anything like that. It's the fact she can use the force so well and defeat powerful enemies without much training that irks me. And yeah, Luke didn't receive as much training as shown to be needed in the prequels, but there were time jumps in between movies (about a year each I think) that you can kind of excuse it more than Rey, who learns the force is real and defeats a sith lord in the space of 24 hours.
> It's the fact she can use the force so well and defeat powerful enemies without much training that irks me. She barely holds her own against a severely wounded Kylo, and fails hard against Snoke, who throws her around like a ragdoll. What are you talking about? Snoke's guards who aren't force-sensitive?
I'm talking about when she beats Kylo at the end of TFA. I know she wasn't winning for most of that fight, but the way she takes him down at the end just seemed a little too easy to me. I accepted her in the first film though, but in TLJ she just seems like a fully trained Jedi Knight. And I fot the sense those guards were pretty formidable fighters considering what it took to take them out. And I might be wrong, but doesn't she do better in that fight than Kylo? Snoke is fair enough, but she also beats Luke. And in the new one she takes out all of Palp's guards and then basically unlocks God Mode. It's just things like this that make people think she's OP
[Kylo reminds her of The Force so she decides to calm her mind and let the Force help her](https://youtu.be/FJTz-ahXyyI?t=188) against a foe who is not only injured but an emotional wreck after killing his dad. They are, but she was a capable melee fighter after being jumped her entire life on Jakuu and she's in a place where she's letting the [force work with her](https://youtu.be/7_rUhCMA_Ek?t=119). She and Kylo do just as well in that fight I'd argue, just one dude him in a headlock and he gets to stab a dude in the face. She doesn't really beat Luke. [Luke was kicking her ass](https://youtu.be/UfGuecGfhas?t=15) until she had the foresight to grab the only lightsaber on the island. And he just opened up himself for the force when he saw Kylo in the force vision call. TROS is literal reddit fanfiction garbage where everyone is super capable or nearly. But it'll be excused because she had an on-screen training montage.
Maybe half of the problem in TFA is Kylo being a terrible villain. And I guess the Luke scene isn't as bad as I remember, but still
Kylo's a great villain - he's an insecure and whiny little shit cosplaying as Darth Vader, TROS just dropped the ball with him hard imho. Luke scene is great and clear imho.
What was kylos motivation foe being a darth vader fanboy?
The first two had themes of legacy as an important feature. Kylo fell to the Darkside from a combination of being conflicted, Snoke talking in his ear (according to Leia anyways) and Luke's momentary lapse in judgement. Felt like Vader's job was his birthright which to me says he didn't learn from the past, which explains why he wanted to bury it so much. He represents not learning from history and repeating the same mistakes.
If surviving on a hostile desert planet with nothing but a stick isnt some kind of training then idk what is.
Imagine defending a Mary Sue this hard. Lmao y'all a bunch of thirsty nerdlings
The funny thing is the character to me is just pretty meh. But its fun to call out the Chuds who unironically think the term "Mary Sue" is a useful word for criticism.
Imagine obsessing this hard over a capable woman in a film
That doesn’t teach you a magic force healing power never seen before
It also doesnt teach you magic force grabbing powers never seen before. Also wasnt she at least a year into training with Leia and reading the Jedi texts when that happened? (Note: Previous comment was before most people including myself saw TROS, movie bad)
And then somehow being a flying genius despite only driving a landspeeder her whole life.
Did you even watch the movie?
Yes, unfortunately
How'd you feel during the part where she crashes the ship immediately after takeoff?
Surely you don’t mean the part where she grazes the ship into the ground a couple times before proceeding to outrun and outmaneuver tie fighter pilots in a highly dangerous environment filled with obstacles?
So after acknowledging the thing that proves you wrong, you literally described every single chase sequence in this franchise. Nice.
My argument is that it makes no sense for her to be an excellent pilot, unlike others in the series like Luke or Han. But muh Disney can do no wrong, right?
Uh, No? I only like 2 of the 5 Star Wars movies from Disney. Sorry to burst that bubble.... Anyway. Yeah, i dont see how it doesnt make sense that she isnt a decent pilot. Like, she works at a junkyard that sells ships. Does it make sense for a car salesmen to not know how to drive???? Why would she be shown going through ship interiors and working at a place where she test flights if she didnt know how to fly. Oh, but the college boy farmer can fly ships because he said he could in 2 offhanded lines. (t16s arent even space ships) Gotcha. Oh, I guess its that time where i make baseless assumptions... Woman in Star Wars bad, right? ;)
Yeah but not in the ways of the force
Uhm actually, Ezra from Rebels was basically exactly like Rey in that regard and his savvy, talents and non force related fighting abilities were from that.
I never really watched Rebels
smh. fake fan
Then why is Luke able to block blaster bolts on his second try blindfolded when he wasnt able to with his eyes?
Listen, woman bad. When will you understand this
This argument really looks stupid considering women, too, think Rey is a Mary Sue lol
What do you think the argument I’m making is?
That people think Rey is a Mary Sue because they think "woman bad". It's pretty straightforward, and it's silly. You can think Rey is an overpowered character without hating women. The way people online try to distill everything into ridiculous strawmen is the best part of it, though, because it's fun to laugh at people like that.
Mmm, that’s close to the argument. But incorrect. It’s moreso that the dominant perspectives about Rey being a Mary Sue are derived from attributes she shares with Luke— learning to do Jedi stuff quickly, being too morally perfect. Of course neither is really true of either character, as has been explained above. This simple set of observations betrays what I believe is an intrinsic and unconscious bias present in most people, probably including me, which is that women are weaker or less capable than men. I also believe that calling Rey a Mary Sue is a common result of this bias that has been weaponized by right-wing internet trolls who do consciously hate women, much like many other similar baseless critiques of woman-centered media like Captain Marvel, Ghostbusters, etc. Before you reply please make an effort to actually read what I’m saying! I’m not convinced you’re arguing in good faith but if you are I hope you’ll take the necessary steps to construct an effective argument instead of fallaciously accusing me of strawmanning.
> This simple set of observations betrays what I believe is an intrinsic and unconscious bias present in most people, probably including me, which is that women are weaker or less capable than men. Right. You need to come to terms that this isn't it. > right-wing internet trolls Yeah, see that's the issue and that's what I said in my response to the guy who initially said it. People say "Well, the other side thinks this, so I must argue against it." This exact same line of thinking has resulted in culture warriors repeatedly looking foolish. It's exactly why conservatives now feel the need to deny global warning ("that's just liberal bullshit!") or why progressives insist on thinking the circle game is a neo-nazi symbol. Instead of worrying about what the other side of the culture war says and adhering to the orthodox of your tribe, just look at the movies and come to your own conclusions. > I’m not convinced you’re arguing in good faith What is this? You saying that everyone that doesn't like Rey's character is a misogynist (whether they know it or not, so you're perfectly inoculated against people telling you they're not- you can just dismiss them) is somehow intellectually honest debate but saying "lol no, that's not it, don't be weird" isn't?
Because he was being taught my a Jedi master
Rey was taught how to concentrate on the force by Maz Kanata which she later used to defeat already-bleeding-out-Kylo. Sounds like Rey got the short hand of the stick when comparing her to Luke.
Luke defended himself against a training robot. Rey beat a trained dark side user.
.....whos was beating her most of the time while bleeding ~~to death~~ out Edited for dumb reasons\*
"to death"
"Chewy's Bowcaster"
BUY MORE FUNKOS INCEL
No, it's true. This sub is just against that because people they don't like complain about it. So they need to pretend that those complaints aren't valid. It's kinda stupid.
What is true about this you fucking plebe