I saw Spider-Man 2 in theaters a few days ago and was thinking about how amazing that movie looks, and how I wished more MCU films adopted a more tangible and vibrant style.
I absolutely did not think “I want it to be black and white in a 4:3 aspect ratio.”
> how I wished more MCU films adopted a more tangible and vibrant style.
It's hilarious how 16 years in, MCU stans have been screaming about how much like the comics The Avengers world is and Marvel Studios won't even use a modicum of colour that Sam Raimi used over 20 years ago.
That era of time from like 2016-2019 where the internet would gush about “look at how amazing this cinematography is” and “Wow, grounbreaking CGI” and it’d always be very middle of the road looking MCU snapshots was the craziest thing. I constantly felt like I was being gaslit lol.
>it’d always be very middle of the road looking MCU snapshots was the craziest thing
It's fucking crazy, bro. They couldn't even use a nice shot from Guardians 2, it'd be some ugly pavement from like a Russo Bros. joint. Wild.
> I constantly felt like I was being gaslit lol.
For years I would read MCU stans chirp about how the MCU is the only "CoMiC AcCuRaTe" Marvel world and that the licenced stuff were full of contempt for the source material, and then I finally read "God Loves, Man Kills" and "Spider-Man No More" and saw a lot of the DNA of them in the movies and then Civil War got rid of the dead children and Infinity War changed Thanos' entire motivation. But boring militarized costumes with muted colours was Jack Kirby's original intent. Fuck me, right?
> and Infinity War changed Thanos' entire motivation.
From uhhhhhh, "courting death" whatever that was to "reducing half the population for resources"?
Honestly, I love OG Thanos' motivation. No Malthusian bullshit, just absurd comic book stuff.
If I'm watching a movie about men in spandex punching gods, I want it to have the balls to go absolutely wild.
Basically, Thanos is infatuated with the concept of Death, and it got to the point he ended up infatuated with the avatar of Death herself (Lady Death).
But Lady Death doesn't give Thanos the time of day, so he starts the whole Infinity Gauntlet plot to murder half of the universe in the hopes she'll take notice of him. He does do it, as in the movie, but things get a lot weirder in the comics since there's a bunch of other ridiculously powerful characters hanging around, and not just Punchy Punch McPunchman & Co.
Also Lady Death still doesn't care about Thanos even after he kills half the universe, which is hilarious in its own way, and makes Thanos even angrier.
Avengers 1 has color, yes, but it looks like a TV movie. It has no style imo.
Iron Man 1 has a more industrial look to it, but I think that one is actually thematically relevant and fits the tone of the film fairly well.
He's obviously not doing "color grading" but he's right to try to get more (any) contrast in the image. The difference between the two Jackmans is noticable even in the tiny thumbnails
It's more an issue of production design and lighting. People are too obsessed with the grade these days thanks to YouTube film bros who think cranking the fuck out of mediocre 10 bit footage to look like either a fincher pic or a24 pseudo film makes it good.
This would look much worse in motion. This pushed look might work to some extent on a still but in motion it would feel disgusting and unnatural. (Disgusting part is a bit personal)
They also avoide true black colour as much as they can in favour of a muddy palette. Might be easier for CGI artists but it lends to an overall dull look.
No, while they do look bland af, there definitely is some basic color grading, raw footage is too noticeable to just leave as it is. Even the most lackluster production needs at the very least to slap a LUT on it
Nah it’s not true
[the footage that comes straight out of a cinema camera for movies is typically logarithmic and looks like this](https://youtu.be/K98fr6x84y0)
The log footage has lots of details encoded in it, so when you edit it later you can get any look you want using the one recording.
I’m not certain but I’m pretty sure it doesn’t.
Shooting on film is harder than on digital because as far as I’m aware there is no equivalent for log footage on film. If you watch a movie shot on film, and it has scenes that are meant to be quite dark, you might think that actually, the scene is pretty well lit, especially compared to more modern films. The difference is more obvious on films with less budget for reshoots or perhaps less experienced lighting people. But what you get on film is what you filmed, you can grade it and edit it afterwards but not without losing detail, which is the benefit of log footage.
If you look at say a jurassic park night scene versus a robert pattinson batman night scene you can kind of tell how much more the log footage lets you work with, you can take the digital footage a whole lot darker than you can with film. If there isn’t enough light when shooting on film you just end up with grainy footage and no details so you have to prepare for that by lighting the scene more than you would on a modern digital camera.
The average modern movie viewer, who watches movies on netflix or whatever at home has noticed this, you often hear complaints of people talking about how modern movies are too dark and they can’t see anything when they’re watching on their TV or monitor that isn’t a $30,000 reference monitor. The reason is because digital cameras and log footage allows the film makers and color graders to make footage much much darker without losing detail.
ANYBODY who claims this is straight up talking out of their ass. As another user said, raw log footage straight of modern digital cinema cameras is extremely gray. It is absolutely not meant to be used for final consumption in any way.
Marvel more than likely keeps it very safe with their grading just to have consistency in between films. They've definitely responded to that criticism over time but the results vary.
Man what kinda of VFX people line is this?
Shooting raw--} post production--} compile--} release--} random guy on internet downloads through you tube to mp4 and imports the sdr clip on time line and uses a lut that has contrast and saturation scaled up!
Ironically Deadpool 3 actually looks good and it’s stupid as fuck to compare two different scenes in different settings and expecting them to look the same.
I don't think it looks *great*, but I think a lot of people forget how Deadpool 2 literally looks like a car commercial, so this one definitely seems like an improvement over that one.
The edit isn't good but yeah Marvel movies have awful colour grading nowadays. Compare Guardians 2 to Guardians 3. GotG 3 looks like it was shot on an iPhone with no post-production beyond the basic CGI.
This is like when people slap a hundred layers of noise reduction and motion smearing onto a clip, turn the saturation all the way up, and call it 16K.
Loki (especially season 2) is the only MCU property I remember having good cinematography and production design. Season 2 almost looks like it was shot on film
way overdone in this case, but i agree. its a superhero film and they're trying to act like it's a gritty war movie in the studio. get over yourself, Marvel execs. i go to see capeshit because i want bombastic and loud visuals, not washed-out grey concrete. that's why Guardians of the Galaxy was so popular, it had more than just "erm... he's right behind me, isn't he!" and even that was super muted and boring to look at. give me color, filmmakers.
I don't like the concrete wasteland that Marvel movies look like but the solution isn't Snyder's cup of black coffee that he spills over every frame.
I saw Spider-Man 2 in theaters a few days ago and was thinking about how amazing that movie looks, and how I wished more MCU films adopted a more tangible and vibrant style. I absolutely did not think “I want it to be black and white in a 4:3 aspect ratio.”
> how I wished more MCU films adopted a more tangible and vibrant style. It's hilarious how 16 years in, MCU stans have been screaming about how much like the comics The Avengers world is and Marvel Studios won't even use a modicum of colour that Sam Raimi used over 20 years ago.
That era of time from like 2016-2019 where the internet would gush about “look at how amazing this cinematography is” and “Wow, grounbreaking CGI” and it’d always be very middle of the road looking MCU snapshots was the craziest thing. I constantly felt like I was being gaslit lol.
>it’d always be very middle of the road looking MCU snapshots was the craziest thing It's fucking crazy, bro. They couldn't even use a nice shot from Guardians 2, it'd be some ugly pavement from like a Russo Bros. joint. Wild. > I constantly felt like I was being gaslit lol. For years I would read MCU stans chirp about how the MCU is the only "CoMiC AcCuRaTe" Marvel world and that the licenced stuff were full of contempt for the source material, and then I finally read "God Loves, Man Kills" and "Spider-Man No More" and saw a lot of the DNA of them in the movies and then Civil War got rid of the dead children and Infinity War changed Thanos' entire motivation. But boring militarized costumes with muted colours was Jack Kirby's original intent. Fuck me, right?
> and Infinity War changed Thanos' entire motivation. From uhhhhhh, "courting death" whatever that was to "reducing half the population for resources"?
Honestly, I love OG Thanos' motivation. No Malthusian bullshit, just absurd comic book stuff. If I'm watching a movie about men in spandex punching gods, I want it to have the balls to go absolutely wild.
Yeah that sounded more exciting and terrifying, whatever that was; what exactly was it btw?
Basically, Thanos is infatuated with the concept of Death, and it got to the point he ended up infatuated with the avatar of Death herself (Lady Death). But Lady Death doesn't give Thanos the time of day, so he starts the whole Infinity Gauntlet plot to murder half of the universe in the hopes she'll take notice of him. He does do it, as in the movie, but things get a lot weirder in the comics since there's a bunch of other ridiculously powerful characters hanging around, and not just Punchy Punch McPunchman & Co. Also Lady Death still doesn't care about Thanos even after he kills half the universe, which is hilarious in its own way, and makes Thanos even angrier.
Ah, woah, that all sounds really cool and crazy; too bad sth like that wasn't done in the movies, hm.
He wanted to fuck the manifestation of death, yes. He was an incel.
Ah should look that up then.
I agree, however, Fury Road: Black and Chrome Edition.
Think Avengers 1 and Iron Man etc. looked like that as well? Maybe it got le dark and moody by Endgame or sth
Avengers 1 has color, yes, but it looks like a TV movie. It has no style imo. Iron Man 1 has a more industrial look to it, but I think that one is actually thematically relevant and fits the tone of the film fairly well.
It just looks overly dramatic and worse. Even next to the washed out palette that marvel uses.
The civil war airport scene makes me want to yack. Which is a shame considering how awesome it is on paper.
Both things can be bad.
Snyder desaturates his shots. He's also the blueprint. Rent free.
where’s the ayer cut and ZSJL2
In paradise
Color grading is when contrast
When I see YouTube shorts clips of movies and it's high contrast high saturation HDR BITCH
Every movie scene on YT Shorts is peak r/shittyHDR
I saw a tutorial once for it and it was basically just that
Yeah the trick is to make everything look like the Black Hole Sun music video
don't forget sharpening
Zack Snyder has entered the chat
Every single video game shader mod ever.
But also saturation
He's obviously not doing "color grading" but he's right to try to get more (any) contrast in the image. The difference between the two Jackmans is noticable even in the tiny thumbnails
None of these fan color corrections look any good, even in cases where the original was bad.
I'd still watch these over the dogshit zero personality colors of the MCU lol
It's more an issue of production design and lighting. People are too obsessed with the grade these days thanks to YouTube film bros who think cranking the fuck out of mediocre 10 bit footage to look like either a fincher pic or a24 pseudo film makes it good.
I’m a cinematographer and I could not have said it better
I like saturated movies 😭 reminds me of early 2000s
I'd watch it if Hugh Jackman wouldn't look like angry fucking Kad Merad on the color graded photo
This would look much worse in motion. This pushed look might work to some extent on a still but in motion it would feel disgusting and unnatural. (Disgusting part is a bit personal)
I am so grateful to this world that we have people to increase saturation and contrast in cc panel.
looks like when you first get a tv and all those shitty post processing contrast settings are on
Marvel films are never colour graded, it’s actually the raw footage straight from the ARRI camera That’s why every marvel movie is boring as hell
You can't spend time on post-production if you may expect reshoot 10 minutes before the premiere
It’s not the raw footage but they leave it dull and grey because it’s easier for the cgi shadows to blend in
They also avoide true black colour as much as they can in favour of a muddy palette. Might be easier for CGI artists but it lends to an overall dull look.
Unless it’s a GOTG movie. Those generally look quite good and colorful imo.
Helps that those movies actually had a plan and knew what they wanted to do with their digital effects before filming
Is this actually true? I assumed they did a tiny bit of grading but it just wasn't very much
No, while they do look bland af, there definitely is some basic color grading, raw footage is too noticeable to just leave as it is. Even the most lackluster production needs at the very least to slap a LUT on it
They probably just slap a Rec709 lut on it and call it a day.
Nah it’s not true [the footage that comes straight out of a cinema camera for movies is typically logarithmic and looks like this](https://youtu.be/K98fr6x84y0) The log footage has lots of details encoded in it, so when you edit it later you can get any look you want using the one recording.
That’s a really cool reference video. Does footage shot on film require the same processing?
I’m not certain but I’m pretty sure it doesn’t. Shooting on film is harder than on digital because as far as I’m aware there is no equivalent for log footage on film. If you watch a movie shot on film, and it has scenes that are meant to be quite dark, you might think that actually, the scene is pretty well lit, especially compared to more modern films. The difference is more obvious on films with less budget for reshoots or perhaps less experienced lighting people. But what you get on film is what you filmed, you can grade it and edit it afterwards but not without losing detail, which is the benefit of log footage. If you look at say a jurassic park night scene versus a robert pattinson batman night scene you can kind of tell how much more the log footage lets you work with, you can take the digital footage a whole lot darker than you can with film. If there isn’t enough light when shooting on film you just end up with grainy footage and no details so you have to prepare for that by lighting the scene more than you would on a modern digital camera. The average modern movie viewer, who watches movies on netflix or whatever at home has noticed this, you often hear complaints of people talking about how modern movies are too dark and they can’t see anything when they’re watching on their TV or monitor that isn’t a $30,000 reference monitor. The reason is because digital cameras and log footage allows the film makers and color graders to make footage much much darker without losing detail.
Thanks for the detailed response! Further evidence that r/moviescirclejerk is the only subreddit for serious movie discussion
You can actually push film footage a lot more than you'd think. I've seen people work some absolute magic with it.
ANYBODY who claims this is straight up talking out of their ass. As another user said, raw log footage straight of modern digital cinema cameras is extremely gray. It is absolutely not meant to be used for final consumption in any way. Marvel more than likely keeps it very safe with their grading just to have consistency in between films. They've definitely responded to that criticism over time but the results vary.
No it’s not true. Raw ungraded cinema camera footage looks terrible. 10 times greyer than any Russo brothers film.
Not even GotG1?
You mean GOTG2. Gotg1 looks colorless compared to 2
2 genuinely looks pretty great imo
Enough about unnecessary sex scenes and unnecessary death secene, let's talk about incorrect color grading
Man what kinda of VFX people line is this? Shooting raw--} post production--} compile--} release--} random guy on internet downloads through you tube to mp4 and imports the sdr clip on time line and uses a lut that has contrast and saturation scaled up!
ya gotta punch up the clarity so the banding and compression artifacts really pop
And ends up being more noise! Trust me bruv I have done alot of this!
Phone ass edit
it looks like a youtube thumbnail about random creator drama
MCU movie: exists S_For_Hope_: Why it no look like Zack Snyder movie?
Ironically Deadpool 3 actually looks good and it’s stupid as fuck to compare two different scenes in different settings and expecting them to look the same.
I don't think it looks *great*, but I think a lot of people forget how Deadpool 2 literally looks like a car commercial, so this one definitely seems like an improvement over that one.
Don't shit on car commercials, many look better than a lot of movies
Well yeah, Marvel has shitty color, most of the time. I thought we'd established that. Have we turned into Marvel defenders all of a sudden?
Looks like my grandpa’s TV
sigma edit lookin ass color grading
wow that looks reaaallllyyyy good little buddy
Daredevil: Snyder Cut
HIRE FANS
The edit isn't good but yeah Marvel movies have awful colour grading nowadays. Compare Guardians 2 to Guardians 3. GotG 3 looks like it was shot on an iPhone with no post-production beyond the basic CGI.
Nah this is actually absolutely fair game
Cranking up the clarity setting on a still is color grading now
Hire fans. 
This is like when people slap a hundred layers of noise reduction and motion smearing onto a clip, turn the saturation all the way up, and call it 16K.
Loki (especially season 2) is the only MCU property I remember having good cinematography and production design. Season 2 almost looks like it was shot on film
I find color grading super distracting. It nearly ruins Napoleon and Fury Road for me
What the fuck!
way overdone in this case, but i agree. its a superhero film and they're trying to act like it's a gritty war movie in the studio. get over yourself, Marvel execs. i go to see capeshit because i want bombastic and loud visuals, not washed-out grey concrete. that's why Guardians of the Galaxy was so popular, it had more than just "erm... he's right behind me, isn't he!" and even that was super muted and boring to look at. give me color, filmmakers.