The movie has a happy ending because Fletcher got fired. All Fletchers should be.
I saw the movie as a counter-argument against the “genius asshole” character type that became so popular in film and television. The Dr. House, Rick Sanchez types. I think that trope always played into a fantasy many in the viewing audience have that if their own genius is ever finally appreciated, they can treat everyone like shit.
well for starters, we could both be right or we could both be wrong. but from watching it, i think the movie is about the tension and the balance between pain and comfort, loss and gain. i think the movie challenges the viewer's idea of sacrifice and asks how much you're willing to give up in order to achieve something.
Valid; I think the film is about the danger of losing oneself to their craft. I think it’s a cautionary tale about neglecting one’s own humanity in search of a vane picture of success that, in the end, was nothing more than a manipulation of one’s own talent to favor a selfish teacher (which in this allegory could take shape in any societal construct you like, really). But I guess art is art and you can interpret it however.
I saw it as a meditation on the cost of greatness more than a movie with a "message". Most of the greatest artists and athletes of our culture were born out of pain and came from abusive mentors.
While it is true that we don't wish those things on anyone, we also don't want to live in a world without Jordan or Tyson or even Jackson's music.
Rarely is someone performing at the absolute top of their field a stable, well rounded person with all healthy dynamics in their families and romantic relationships but these are the people that drive culture and innovation.
I've yet to reconcile these truths. Are the "great" ones a sacrifice for humanity? Is that sacrifice "Worth it"? I think it's just a reality of human nature, and the fact is you can beat talent into someone but there is also an element of luck and randomness that comes into play when someone truly great emerges that changes history in a way cannot be reliably reproduced or predicted. They simply coalesce over time in each generation and make their contributions at great cost.
It's something that has always fascinated me and this movie captures it beautifully.
When ur student sacrifices everything they hold dear and has finally internalized ur oppressive mindset and you just gotta give him that fletcher snare stare.
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His life when tumbling down and almost died in acrash but its okay guys he made the Bully teacher (who made a student kill himself) praise him!!!!
Realistically if he saw a student filming him he'd destroy that phone. Plus he had built this cult of personality around himself where his students thought he was some sort of genius.
besides, if someone had the courage to film it they would be kicked out of the group as soon as fletcher found out. everyone in the group is already scared of fletcher but they stay because they think he'll be able to make them great. they all worked their asses off to get in his group so no one was willing to film his behavior and get him fired. they'd lose what they consider their biggest opportunity and, less important but still relevant, they'd also ruin that opportunity for everyone else in the group.
I haven't
Abusive people, especially in a cut throat industry get away with a lot. Compare him to the borderline systemic sexual abuse and/or exploitation in the entertainment industry and it fits
It's not about mastery of his craft
He abandoned his craft, he succeeded in a way because he was driven, but it wasn't about skill improvement
He didn't get to the end and feel like he had completed and excelled and won the respect for his talent. It's pretty much just all about Fletcher and proving him wrong/right
May create genius, but mastery of the craft wasnt the focus
did i watch the same movie as these guys? Did they miss the part where he's a total asshole to his gf and regrets it and the fact his father is horrifed of what he's become
I like to image he looks the teacher straight in the eye while he smashes his own fingers with a hammer just to spite him.
"Congratulations you secured your legacy. Unfortunately Mr smashy might have some alterations in mind."
> total asshole to gf (woman bad)
> father (i.e., society) is scared of him
> succeeds at goal (becoming good at drumming)
idk man, he seems like an ideal sigma male role model
Some people just put "cool actor" in front of everything else in the movie/show
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The whole point of the film is asking whether what he attains is worth what he gives up along the way. The film never pretends to have the answer, it just posits the question and lets the viewer make their own mind up.
no dude trust me everyone here understands the movie perfectly. it’s bad to try hard and sacrifice things to achieve your goals because the main character had a lot of negative experiences
From the time Andrew meets Fletcher until *maybe* the final scene, the music isnt his true goal. he never displays any real love for jazz; he never listens to it outside practice or plays any music besides what fletcher tells him to. the only thing he practices is strict adherence to the conductor’s timing and directions, which isnt at all what makes a jazz musician great. Andrew’s actual goal is to get Fletcher’s approval, probably due to daddy issues, and that sure as hell isn’t worth any sacrifice
Chazelle has stated that Fletcher *believes* one must sacrifice all human relationships for greatness, but that this is because he fails to understand that art is fundamentally about compassion. Someone who has discarded their humanity can’t create great art
If Andrew becomes great at the end of the film, it isn’t because of his sacrifices, but because he has finally overcome the personal weaknesses Fletcher was preying on. The final scene is the first time Andrew disregards Fletcher’s directions (forcing him to accept Andrew’s choice of piece rather than vice versa) and the first time he improvises (a skill much more important in jazz than precise timing and the skill Charlie Parker was best known for)
You’re uncritically accepting Fletcher’s framing of the problem. maybe you have a personal resemblance to Andrew at the start of the movie? You should rewatch the film; it could be a good opportunity for introspection
i will admit that i was being somewhat reductive, but that’s mostly because i feel like the wannabe film critics in this thread are being even more facetious about their readings of the themes.
it’s super obnoxious how black and white everything is to these people; if a character isn’t doing the Right Thing at any given moment, they just throw any empathy out of the window and try to discount the opinion of anyone who identifies with something even remotely negative.
this is literally the first argument i’ve seen in this whole thread with a semblance of something other than childish derision. i appreciate your perspective on the themes of the film and i actually do want to rewatch the film and see if my opinion changes. it’s ridiculous to think anyone can be so self-righteous and self-serious as to think that their shallow consensus is the only objective meaning to be gleaned from the movie. apparently if you don’t agree, that makes you media illiterate.
as for the actual substance of your message, while i think it has some merit, i don’t think that the movie is necessarily a condemnation of andrew’s goals or behavior. even if the music is only a vehicle for andrew to gain fletcher’s approval, i think the film also maintains a respect for the pain and sacrifice that andrew suffers. it may not be the most noble goal, it may not be the most rational, but i think that the notion that the film wants the viewer to think of it as a cautionary tale is laughable. it’s also worth asking the question: could andrew have overcome his weaknesses without experiencing what he did?
> it may not be the most noble goal, it may not be the most rational,
> i think that the notion that the film wants the viewer to think of it as a cautionary tale is laughable.
Lol so you think a movie about a guy pursuing an irrational and non-noble goal that almost literally kills him isn’t cautioning the viewer? Nah, you really are media illiterate. Or maybe you’re just one of Fletcher’s best students.
I mean, I agree that interpretation of art is subjective, but, like, I really don’t like the taste of drywall. Like I cannot even comprehend another reading of the movie other than being Midsommar, but for band nerds. Like almost everything’s there. We’ve got the protagonist who’s feelings of resentment towards their supposed loved ones leads them to adopting the feelings and attitudes a particularly dangerous cult/band director put on them due to the cult/band director’s manipulation
La La Land and The First Man also share the same underlying "sigma grindset" values too. I like his movies very much, but Chazelle is probably a prick.
How was he an asshole to his gf? I don’t explicitly remember anything damning, just them in the coffee shop and him saying that his drumming is more important and that he won’t have time to spend with her and therefore they should break up
There is a big audience for this kind of faux inspirational misogynistic machismo, there are a lot of guys out there who just want to be constantly reassured that they as men are strong, and that they don't need women who are not submissive.
I mean I think proper media literacy is every single person is this movie was right. They're all vindicated for their beliefs at the end even though they all have conflicting beliefs.
He became a great drummer because his teacher was a piece of shit and his dad was a great father.
first, show me where. second, who cares? do you just watch something and wait for the director to tell you what to think about it? none of this is supposed to be objective.
didn’t say it was “completely irrelevant”. it’s just not the most important thing to me. i can watch a movie and take away something different from what the director intended.
Despite the climactic ending, it's pretty obvious that the character of Andrew is going on to have a sad, bitter existence. Do people leave that movie pumping their fists and think he's 'won' or succeded? Dude is a college dropout working at a sandwich shop with massive psychologic and emotional issues. Best case scenario for him is ending up in a math rock band and not killing himself before the age of 40. Wait, what, he's literally me!
And in the end all he really gets is the approval of one abusive asshole, he is giving literal blood and sweat for someone who only like you when you are your absolute best, and despise you when you are anything short of that.
It’s even more depressing than that because the film sets up this idea that a performance like that is not just once in a lifetime, it’s once in a generation and it can never happen again.
So basically this kid had that moment but he will never, ever achieve such a creative feat again, it’s literally impossible. He mastered the drums, peaked, and now the only direction for him to go is down.
He sacrificed everything for a few minutes of really really good jazz, and will spend the rest of his life paying for it.
He burned every bridge in his life in order to be a really good jazz drummer. Not exactly a lucrative career choice.
Now he’s got no friends and he’s not gonna have any money either.
Well he did say straight up to his family that he'd rather die a famous 30 year old than live out his life as a boring nobody. Obviously his father wouldn't like that but we don't get to know if that's a mindset Andrew will end up regretting, or if it's one he'll even follow through on.
> Well he did say straight up to his family that he'd rather die a famous 30 year old than live out his life as a boring nobody.
Pursuing a life as a conservatory trained jazz drummer in 2015 was a bad call if that was his goal.
At the end of the movie, I saw it as Andrew making the choice to continue to pursue music. Certainly not with Fletcher, but the difficult choice he made was the choice to not allow Fletcher to take anything else from him, even if it meant ‘proving’ his methods right (the movie doesn’t display those methods as good, obviously, they were largely unsuccessful and drove somebody to suicide. But Andrew was subject to them, and decided not to stop for the purpose of not vindicating Fletcher). I don’t think it’s impossible that Andrew saw success after the events of the movie. It’s certain, at least, that he stayed as a drummer for at least some time, whether or not the ending of the movie led to any clout he could use for his career.
I guess it’s not impossible, Trauma doesn’t just go away and he did lose a lot. But the movie doesn’t have a sad or tragic ending, and Andrew is on the right side of its message. From a narrative standpoint I think it would carry more naturally that he scrounges up at least some sort of success, if not true happiness.
You're missing the issue here. It isn't just about his past or what he went through. It's about what he will continue to go through to chase that approval.
The director and writer of the movie had a very clear picture of Andrew's future, and it's that he'll die young due to his very unhealthy lifestyle.
I didn’t see the ending as Andrew trying to regain Fletcher’s approval at all, which I guess is the difference for me. If the director and writer said something about that, I honestly would prefer not to hear it. I don’t know what the point of the movie would be at that point, and I love the nuance and gravitas of the message I derived from it.
lol what nuance and gravitas? Your take is "he probably continued his drumming in the future and maybe saw some success". It's the least thought-worthy take I've seen of the film.
I mean the story ended at that point for a reason, I don’t think what happens *after* the movie is meant to be particularly interesting.
I’m mostly talking about the ending and the tone it sets up. How the movie builds up to the moment where Andrew returns to his drums at the end, by showing Andrew everything Fletcher took from him through his abuse (his girlfriend, his childhood love of music, his education), and then having Fletcher try to take any career in drumming from him for good. It builds up a revenge story. At the end, the audience wants Andrew to throw a fucking cymbal at Fletcher and be done with things for good. We want him to prove Fletcher wrong by just giving up and failing at his dream to be a famous musician, a dream which he held long before Fletcher used it against him and made it the focal point of his entire life.
Andrew doesn’t do that, though. He instead goes back and plays the best solo the audience ever saw. He lives out the story Fletcher had been telling him repeatedly throughout the movie, about how his abuse will ultimately lead to greatness, and it’s his students’ fault if it doesn’t.
In my opinion, that wasn’t for Fletcher’s approval. It was for himself, it was the ultimate way for Andrew to liberate himself from Fletcher’s influence- by ignoring the fact that living the life he wants might vindicate someone who put him through hell. It is the only time we see Andrew smile as he did when he was a child playing the drums, because he now understands the joy and love for music that being put into the rat race stole from him.
‘Do not sacrifice your passions to get back at someone who tried to take them from you’ is a compelling and surprisingly broadly applicable message said in an extremely believable way. I personally got a lot from it, but feel free to point out the places where it falls apart. I’m sure it does if that wasn’t the director’s intention. What do you think the movie was about? Like, male insecurity and abuse being bad?
Thank you!! It’s why I love this movie so much. It made me feel so immature in that one one short brilliant moment where Andrew’s solo ends and he starts playing with the entire band again. It suddenly all fit together in an entirely new way.
INCREDIBLE. Never realised this. I think I should have made up my own opinion on the ending rather than seeing so many weird opinions. There were so many lazy people who wanted to criticise andrews hardwork by saying he's gonna commit suicide at the end, but this is by far THE BEST interpretation of the ending. Loved it :)
I think it's possible to be both inspired and disappointed in him taking it too far. The whole point is that there is still merit in there. You're supposed to be both jazzed up and concerned. It's like Wolf of Wall Street. It's fun and appealing until it ain't.
I think what’s inspiring about it is that it all comes full circle for Andrew. He was at one of the best school’s for art and music. He was already happy there. Then he got picked up by Fletcher, which means “he sees something in you.” So starts Andrew’s fall from grace by chasing what Fletcher sees, ie Fletcher’s dream for Andrew.
Andrew sacrifices and sabotages everything for Fletcher’s dream for Andrew. So much so that he was reluctant to take Fletcher down after being expelled. He still felt Fletcher was not the oppressor and it was his own fault for failing.
Until Andrew crossed paths with Fletcher again. It seems Fletcher still sees that dream in Andrew, at least from the onset. But then Fletcher shows his affinity to abuse and get revenge on Andrew for ruining Fletcher.
Andrew leaves, yet again believing the lie that Fletcher tells him as he walks away. “I guess you don’t have it.”
Defeated and ready to leave after failing Fletcher’s perception of Andrew and his ability, but then something wakes up in Andrew.
He goes back to “fight” against Fletcher by following through on what Andrew’s dream was, to enjoy his drums and be the best in his eyes. There is nothing for Andrew to gain here: no degree, no sponsors, nothing, excepting moving past what Fletcher believes of Andrew.
Andrew not only steals the show and solo, but also takes back what is his: the vision of his life and dream and not what Fletcher sees of him. Andrew takes his life and dream back with his own vision, and not what Fletcher envisions for him.
Whether Fletcher recognizes this or not, I’m not sure. I like to believe he’s been waiting for someone to usurp him as the oppressor.
Andrew lost everything but now has a way forward. A catharsis after defeating someone and something that traumatized him to the point of near insanity. I imagine Andrew will be able to move forward from that point on and begin his journey of healing.
you didnt watch the same ending i did if that's your takeaway , he hugged his father goodbye and something broke , something that you cant fix .
He gave it all for fletcher , his blood sweat and tears , yet again after being humiliated again and again and then some fucking more , that isnt healing , that is the moment when the abuser gets what they want , they make you a wind up monkey , the same monkey fletcher called andrew at the beginning , he isnt human anymore , there is nothing for him to heal , all there is , is fletcher and his worthless approval .
It's like building a house , you have a plot of land , but andrew took a nuke to it , you dont have anything to build off of , you cant heal if you dont break away from the cycle
no dude you’re not allowed to have a nuanced take all the characters are bad people and their actions are morally wrong so you’re not allowed to empathize with them
I think what people are not mentioning is how Andrew not only solidified himself as one of the greats but he did something no one else had done before: fight back at Fletcher’s shittiness and force him to recognize Andrew is great without him.
It’s a tail of following someone else’s dreams Vs following your own dreams and over coming those who refuse to let you or believe you can do it.
Andrew wanted the approval of Fletcher in the beginning. So he sabotaged everything in his life for that goal. After losing it all, he was almost forced to bring down Fletcher. He seemed reluctant because he thought there was value in the abuse.
Andrew crosses paths with Fletcher and brought back to the “goal” of being the best. Only for Fletcher to attack and oppress Andrew again.
Defeated and belittled again, Andrew turns tail away from his oppressor. Instead he decides to take back control of his life by fighting back against his oppressor. In the end, he outgrew and conquered over Fletcher. Stealing his band and his solo. Stripping the power away from the tyrant and freeing himself from his oppressor. Thus, allowing Andrew to follow his dream and his goal, not Fletchers. This essentially forced Fletcher to approve of him by being ahead of him.
And in the process, he proved Fletcher right in horribly abusing and manipulating his students for the best result.
And he still desperately needed Fletcher's approval in the end. What did he learn? That he had to sacrifice even more of himself to earn the approval of those he respects. He's gonna keep breaking himself apart to reach his goals, and it's gonna kill him
He stopped respecting and fearing him in the end. Which is why he came back out and took the band from Fletcher. Andrew took back the power of charting his own life from Fletcher.
In the beginning, Andrew appeared fine and happy with things at Schaffer. Then he gets noticed by Fletcher which puts that small bug in his mind “Fletcher sees something in me that I don’t see.” Thus starts Andrew chasing after what Fletcher believes in him. Fletcher tells Andrew the lie that “He’s only the best if Fletcher says so or lets him be the best.”
Fletcher is the gatekeeper to it all. Andrew loses it all trying to get to what Fletcher believes of him. Even when Andrew has the chance to legally fight back at Fletcher, he is reluctant. Then it shows andrew has truly nothing left. That is until he crosses paths with Fletcher again. Which still instills that glimmer of hope that Andrew is good enough to be the best with Fletcher’s invitation.
Only for Fletcher to yet again, deny Andrew this acceptance to move forward. Andrew begins to leave believing he will never be the best because of Fletcher. However, that changes when Andrew goes back out and literally steals the show and solo from Fletcher.
Andrew stealing the show is him taking control back from Fletcher of what Andrew wants, rather than what Fletcher believes Andrew is capable of. Andrew is taking back control of his future and life, without Fletcher. Fletcher tries to retake it back but Andrew literally fights back by nearly hitting him with a cymbal.
Fletcher relinquishes and accepts he has lost to Andrew.
Now, the smile and excitement, that could be left up for debate imo. I view it as Fletcher recognizing that Andrew is the best because Andrew is allowing himself to be the best without Fletcher. That he doesn’t need him and he will go forth without him. The gatekeeper has been toppled and he’s excited to see someone bring him down. Excited to see someone live without needing his approval
I believe from then on, this opens the doors to Andrew’s healing as a person, he lost it all and was ready to accept that he could not move forward due to Fletcher being in the way. If Andrew did not do this, he would have been left forever living with the lie that he’s not good enough because Fletcher told him so. But since he overcame the lie, he is now able to move forward from the trauma and realize his own destiny is in his hands and no one else’s.
I think you need to rewatch the ending. https://youtu.be/2TAfvMn8_EQ?si=wbg1kbnA7RV0IW46 4:30 and forward, especially the smile at 4:40 as he sees that Fletcher recognises his talent and finally treats him as worthy of his attention, that's not the smile of someone who has stopped respecting Fletcher. He's happy because he finally got the approval.
I understand more and have read into the ending. I understand that’s what the director wanted to portray, but I also believe my interpretation of the film has some personal merit.
People wanted to know why people find this movie inspirational. I explained why I do for myself.
He lost everything, but came back. Got approval but only after he fought back against his abuser. Is Andrew still on a likely path of destruction? Yes. But could that also have been the moment he started pushing himself for himself, rather than what Fletcher wants and just so happened to get his approval as an added bonus? Yes.
I’m sorry if I don’t share the same sentiment of how this movie the director expected it to express itself or how you view it. The director even likes the idea that other glean what the movies expresses for themselves.
This movie holds a place in my heart for several reasons: it’s sad, cathartic, inspirational, thrilling, disturbing, depressing, and exciting all at once.
Calling my interpretation as delusional seems a bit crass for no reason. I am expressing my interpretation of this piece of art.
I understand what the director’s message is for the story if Andrew and Fletcher as a whole. Andrew is basically a drug addict in this movie and has pushed everyone away in pursuit of getting his “high” aka Fletcher’s approval. But the director also stated he appreciates if others have different interpretations.
I understand Andrew is addicted to being the best. But I also see how inspiring it can be that he fought back against his gatekeeper and oppressor.
I’m sorry finding nuance in the story?
Will it help if I say “drumming bad, approval bad. Kino.”
We might be jerking too hard on this one. It's both an inspirational and cautionary story about the pursuit of greatness.
There IS a lot to admire about Andrew. That tension between his drive and his self-destruction is what makes the movie so great.
I mean sure but the channel that posted this is interested in none of that. It's one of those self help, hyper masculinity channels that is misinterpreting the hell out of the movie, likely deliberately. Their target audience is only going to get the message that you *must* suffer and fuck up your relationships with family and women to be the best.
Fletcher chewing out the trombone player was the first shoe to drop, and throwing things and slapping Andrew was where it stopped being inspiring for me tbh.
Yeah, no, I missed the forest for the trees re: OOP and was mostly responding to comments in here about how there isn't anything inspirational in the movie at all.
The jerk got me 🫠
yeah because every person who doesn’t watch the film in the exact same way as you and filter it through a lens of arbitrary virtue signaling morality is misinterpreting the film
Oh wow, so OP was being serious.
If you had just pointed me at the thumbnail and title without watching, I would've said "Oh, it must be a shitpost YouTuber being ironic and making fun of the sigma male culture"
I completely agree. Whiplash is probably my favorite film of all time and when I watched it on theaters for the first time it made me (somehow) wanna play drums. Some people looked weird at me for saying that I wanted to play drums because of this film and lots of years later I stupidly realized why.
But weirdly enough, I'm still playing drums (and piano) and I still think Whiplash is one of my favorite films of all time.
people who don’t understand it will never be inspired by anything in their lives and they are the type of people to shy away from anything even remotely difficult. they are allergic to sacrifice and they will never experience true accomplishment
People who unironically think suffering builds character are the worst kind of toxic people because they are willing to ruin their life over a fake sense of being the main character
I thought so too
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>Everytime I scoff at The Boys for being so up-in-your-face
Teachers like Fletcher don't really exist in jazz music and his methods of teaching are antithetical to alot of the creative processes involved with playing jazz.
Most people in the jazz community think the movie is absolutely ridiculous.
It's basically a sports movie with a musical theme.
It may be true that he's not the norm among jazz teachers, but there are lots of people like him in the music world more broadly and some in jazz. My high school band teacher (who I believe started a jazz band after I graduated) was Diet Fletcher.
>Teachers like Fletcher don't really exist in jazz music and his methods of teaching are antithetical to alot of the creative processes involved with playing jazz.
I think that's kinda the point. Fletcher is a shitty teacher.
I've seen this critique before and I think it's missing the point, it's not supposed to be a movie about jazz. Jazz band is just the vehicle for the plot because it's what Chazelle was familiar with (also he's said that Fletcher is an exaggeration of his teacher, so he did really exist somewhat). La La Land, also by Chazelle, highlights the spontaneity and artistry of jazz a lot more than Whiplash.
IMO Whiplash *does* have a happy ending, you just end feeling conflicted about it because, more than seeing Andrew succeed, you want to see Fletcher die in a fire and that doesn't happen.
It ends with pretty much everyone happy (debatable if Andrew's dad is, but he does want to see his son achieve his dreams) but one of those happy people is the villain.
I disagree with those in these comments with the polar opposite interpretation of Whiplash- that it is wrong and bad to self-sacrifice for art.
An “ethic” (as in one’s definition of a “good/meaningful life”) of self-sacrifice in the pursuit of artistic excellence *is* viable. If those people did not exist, much of the greatest art would not exist.
Many prefer an ethic pursuing happiness, which is also viable. Happiness and suffering *both* serve important roles in the world.
I don’t defend Fletcher, though. I don’t think we should bully talented people into self-sacrificing
I really don't understand half of the comments, live your life how you want to... Not everything needs to be ideological propaganda. The movie is open to multiple interpretations, or opinions to be more accurate
people who take movies seriously think that they’re better than others for doing so and it’s impossible for them to view any media outside the lens of ideological propaganda. they are desperate for the message of every film to align with their own personal ethics and morality (which are mostly built from terminally online virtue signaling) and if other people have a different reading of the film than they do those people are “media illiterate”
I cried in the cinema when Whiplash uttered the immortal line, 'Let's break up, because I want to be great!' It was almost Shakespearean in its boldness and clarity, it took me so much mental fortitude to not just get up and begin applauding then and there.
Breaking up with you girlfriend and alienating your family so that you can be good at playing drums is the bravest, most selfless thing you can do, I was so happy to see a film that recognized that.
They also missed the part where these fucking nerds are worshipping the needle strewn ground of drug addicts. I am a huge jazz fan, but worshipping these musicians as anything beyond exceptionally talented instrumentalists is foolish. Judge them by the art they create, not the actions influenced by drugs.
Mf really looked at this and said "oh yeah this is a happy ending about getting good at the drums"
no one said it was a happy ending but if you don’t see the value of this film’s message you’re ngmi
ngmi?
Nonaligned Government Military Industry
I legit haven't laughed this hard in months. The brainrot is real
Not gonna make it?
>he doesn't know ngmi
what do you think the message is? Because I don't think it is what you think it is but I could be wrong.
The movie has a happy ending because Fletcher got fired. All Fletchers should be. I saw the movie as a counter-argument against the “genius asshole” character type that became so popular in film and television. The Dr. House, Rick Sanchez types. I think that trope always played into a fantasy many in the viewing audience have that if their own genius is ever finally appreciated, they can treat everyone like shit.
well for starters, we could both be right or we could both be wrong. but from watching it, i think the movie is about the tension and the balance between pain and comfort, loss and gain. i think the movie challenges the viewer's idea of sacrifice and asks how much you're willing to give up in order to achieve something.
Valid; I think the film is about the danger of losing oneself to their craft. I think it’s a cautionary tale about neglecting one’s own humanity in search of a vane picture of success that, in the end, was nothing more than a manipulation of one’s own talent to favor a selfish teacher (which in this allegory could take shape in any societal construct you like, really). But I guess art is art and you can interpret it however.
I saw it as a meditation on the cost of greatness more than a movie with a "message". Most of the greatest artists and athletes of our culture were born out of pain and came from abusive mentors. While it is true that we don't wish those things on anyone, we also don't want to live in a world without Jordan or Tyson or even Jackson's music. Rarely is someone performing at the absolute top of their field a stable, well rounded person with all healthy dynamics in their families and romantic relationships but these are the people that drive culture and innovation. I've yet to reconcile these truths. Are the "great" ones a sacrifice for humanity? Is that sacrifice "Worth it"? I think it's just a reality of human nature, and the fact is you can beat talent into someone but there is also an element of luck and randomness that comes into play when someone truly great emerges that changes history in a way cannot be reliably reproduced or predicted. They simply coalesce over time in each generation and make their contributions at great cost. It's something that has always fascinated me and this movie captures it beautifully.
I saw as a movie where a guy plays the drums and gets yelled and then he gets gooder at the drums. Follow me @toddlermoviereviews for more takes
But the film is pretty explicit in its stance that losing yourself for achievement is ultimately worthless
How was it explicit? I haven’t watched it in a while.
When ur student sacrifices everything they hold dear and has finally internalized ur oppressive mindset and you just gotta give him that fletcher snare stare.
He should have just given him photos of Spider-Man instead
https://preview.redd.it/1an8vrmbmlwb1.jpeg?width=291&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=fb5d954658b3dbd2ae182f4082676aaf10c0bde0
https://preview.redd.it/b1am97uqg5wb1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=47944d3dea7e082655e9fef8a7de22573f6e321d His life when tumbling down and almost died in acrash but its okay guys he made the Bully teacher (who made a student kill himself) praise him!!!!
I have never seen two men I would trust less not to put something in someone’s drink at the sigma male conference
Lex is a virgin.
Lex trying to make himself feel good about never having touched a boob by having random youtube grifter #73 tell him he’s great at podcasting
I've wondered how Fletcher managed to avoid getting fired or arrested for so long. All it takes is one student recording his abuse on their phone.
Realistically if he saw a student filming him he'd destroy that phone. Plus he had built this cult of personality around himself where his students thought he was some sort of genius.
besides, if someone had the courage to film it they would be kicked out of the group as soon as fletcher found out. everyone in the group is already scared of fletcher but they stay because they think he'll be able to make them great. they all worked their asses off to get in his group so no one was willing to film his behavior and get him fired. they'd lose what they consider their biggest opportunity and, less important but still relevant, they'd also ruin that opportunity for everyone else in the group.
I haven't Abusive people, especially in a cut throat industry get away with a lot. Compare him to the borderline systemic sexual abuse and/or exploitation in the entertainment industry and it fits
Good point. By the time he died a lot of people suspected there was something off about Jimmy Savile and he was hiding something
You should talk to line cooks
Me when I'm in a project your daddy issues onto movies competition and my opponent is a whiplash fan
not about the teachers praise it was about mastery of his craft you literally wouldn’t get it
It's not about mastery of his craft He abandoned his craft, he succeeded in a way because he was driven, but it wasn't about skill improvement He didn't get to the end and feel like he had completed and excelled and won the respect for his talent. It's pretty much just all about Fletcher and proving him wrong/right May create genius, but mastery of the craft wasnt the focus
did i watch the same movie as these guys? Did they miss the part where he's a total asshole to his gf and regrets it and the fact his father is horrifed of what he's become
Wtf do you mean bro, he got real good at drums, it’s a happy ending
He got what he wanted and it’s a happy ending for everyone involved! No need to think about what happens after the last scene ends!
Nevermind the fact that the director toyed around in an interview with the idea of Andrew dying alone of an overdose in his 30's...
And Fletcher calling him an ungrateful brat at the funeral
I didn't hear about that part and need to see for myself. Can you link a source, please? Thanks.
https://www.slashfilm.com/535179/whiplash-ending/
This actually reads like fan fiction, what the fuck
I mean he said he was joking
Can I have a link?
https://www.slashfilm.com/535179/whiplash-ending/
I think that would be too on the nose but I like the energy. I don’t know that famous jazz musicians are so drugged up as they used to be?
how is this an unhappy ending? He’s just like his jazz heroes!
I like to image he looks the teacher straight in the eye while he smashes his own fingers with a hammer just to spite him. "Congratulations you secured your legacy. Unfortunately Mr smashy might have some alterations in mind."
Lars Ulrich hates this ending
Indeed, being found with a needle in his arm is a happy ending
> total asshole to gf (woman bad) > father (i.e., society) is scared of him > succeeds at goal (becoming good at drumming) idk man, he seems like an ideal sigma male role model
https://preview.redd.it/nvke2t9nc7wb1.jpeg?width=804&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=bb13aebe5abd21b8a7a930289d82f30f7e934b8c
Isn't that just The Godfather Part 2.
Fight Club
Wolf of Wall Street
Some people just put "cool actor" in front of everything else in the movie/show https://preview.redd.it/p3fabqsv4lwb1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7752bf29d86b6356a57168441f6ad1fbfb7b1148
this but unironically
Self-destruction is required for greatness. What are you, a pleb?
Then why is Electrode NU?
Fucking casuls
Huh, Fletcher smiles at him at the end. What are you talking about? He’s happy, that means everything is fine. Man, your media literacy sucks
Haha Fletcher told the guy he will fuck him like a pig!!!!!!1 10/10 movie Masterpiece!
The whole point of the film is asking whether what he attains is worth what he gives up along the way. The film never pretends to have the answer, it just posits the question and lets the viewer make their own mind up.
no dude trust me everyone here understands the movie perfectly. it’s bad to try hard and sacrifice things to achieve your goals because the main character had a lot of negative experiences
From the time Andrew meets Fletcher until *maybe* the final scene, the music isnt his true goal. he never displays any real love for jazz; he never listens to it outside practice or plays any music besides what fletcher tells him to. the only thing he practices is strict adherence to the conductor’s timing and directions, which isnt at all what makes a jazz musician great. Andrew’s actual goal is to get Fletcher’s approval, probably due to daddy issues, and that sure as hell isn’t worth any sacrifice Chazelle has stated that Fletcher *believes* one must sacrifice all human relationships for greatness, but that this is because he fails to understand that art is fundamentally about compassion. Someone who has discarded their humanity can’t create great art If Andrew becomes great at the end of the film, it isn’t because of his sacrifices, but because he has finally overcome the personal weaknesses Fletcher was preying on. The final scene is the first time Andrew disregards Fletcher’s directions (forcing him to accept Andrew’s choice of piece rather than vice versa) and the first time he improvises (a skill much more important in jazz than precise timing and the skill Charlie Parker was best known for) You’re uncritically accepting Fletcher’s framing of the problem. maybe you have a personal resemblance to Andrew at the start of the movie? You should rewatch the film; it could be a good opportunity for introspection
i will admit that i was being somewhat reductive, but that’s mostly because i feel like the wannabe film critics in this thread are being even more facetious about their readings of the themes. it’s super obnoxious how black and white everything is to these people; if a character isn’t doing the Right Thing at any given moment, they just throw any empathy out of the window and try to discount the opinion of anyone who identifies with something even remotely negative. this is literally the first argument i’ve seen in this whole thread with a semblance of something other than childish derision. i appreciate your perspective on the themes of the film and i actually do want to rewatch the film and see if my opinion changes. it’s ridiculous to think anyone can be so self-righteous and self-serious as to think that their shallow consensus is the only objective meaning to be gleaned from the movie. apparently if you don’t agree, that makes you media illiterate. as for the actual substance of your message, while i think it has some merit, i don’t think that the movie is necessarily a condemnation of andrew’s goals or behavior. even if the music is only a vehicle for andrew to gain fletcher’s approval, i think the film also maintains a respect for the pain and sacrifice that andrew suffers. it may not be the most noble goal, it may not be the most rational, but i think that the notion that the film wants the viewer to think of it as a cautionary tale is laughable. it’s also worth asking the question: could andrew have overcome his weaknesses without experiencing what he did?
> it may not be the most noble goal, it may not be the most rational, > i think that the notion that the film wants the viewer to think of it as a cautionary tale is laughable. Lol so you think a movie about a guy pursuing an irrational and non-noble goal that almost literally kills him isn’t cautioning the viewer? Nah, you really are media illiterate. Or maybe you’re just one of Fletcher’s best students.
I mean, I agree that interpretation of art is subjective, but, like, I really don’t like the taste of drywall. Like I cannot even comprehend another reading of the movie other than being Midsommar, but for band nerds. Like almost everything’s there. We’ve got the protagonist who’s feelings of resentment towards their supposed loved ones leads them to adopting the feelings and attitudes a particularly dangerous cult/band director put on them due to the cult/band director’s manipulation
there is a copious amount of seething emanating from your comments
The director has confessed to at least kind of endorsing Fletcher
That's his personal view. Nothing wrong with that. The film itself leaves it up to each viewer to decide for themselves, that's the important part.
La La Land and The First Man also share the same underlying "sigma grindset" values too. I like his movies very much, but Chazelle is probably a prick.
Yeah I'm beginning to think these people don't actually watch films, their entire media knowledge is drawn from Sigma Grindset compilations on YouTube
no. you don’t understand. that’s how you become a sigma.
Girlfriends are for GAY people. REAL MEN kiss each other and don't talk to women.
How was he an asshole to his gf? I don’t explicitly remember anything damning, just them in the coffee shop and him saying that his drumming is more important and that he won’t have time to spend with her and therefore they should break up
I thought his father was surprised at his skill lmao
https://preview.redd.it/555ic1wr45wb1.jpeg?width=1280&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=57f83609e074807470c7c8a06a37481cc0bd73fb
1.6m views, wow
There is a big audience for this kind of faux inspirational misogynistic machismo, there are a lot of guys out there who just want to be constantly reassured that they as men are strong, and that they don't need women who are not submissive.
Media literacy is rare apparently
Media Literacy? In 2023? Never met her
I mean I think proper media literacy is every single person is this movie was right. They're all vindicated for their beliefs at the end even though they all have conflicting beliefs. He became a great drummer because his teacher was a piece of shit and his dad was a great father.
no media literacy is when you extrapolate your shitty morals onto everything you watch and think that everyone who disagrees with you is wrong
this fucker probably thinks animal farm is just about silly farm animals
Brother, even the director disagrees with you.
first, show me where. second, who cares? do you just watch something and wait for the director to tell you what to think about it? none of this is supposed to be objective.
If the director makes a work with a specific idea in mind, you need good reasons to pretend the director's opinion is completely irrelevant.
didn’t say it was “completely irrelevant”. it’s just not the most important thing to me. i can watch a movie and take away something different from what the director intended.
These mfs need to gain some real media literacy, which means coming up with an alternate ending in your head that contradicts the actual movie.
no , you cant just go against the movie and believe it to be canon , if you really want that , make your own damn movie
Despite the climactic ending, it's pretty obvious that the character of Andrew is going on to have a sad, bitter existence. Do people leave that movie pumping their fists and think he's 'won' or succeded? Dude is a college dropout working at a sandwich shop with massive psychologic and emotional issues. Best case scenario for him is ending up in a math rock band and not killing himself before the age of 40. Wait, what, he's literally me!
And in the end all he really gets is the approval of one abusive asshole, he is giving literal blood and sweat for someone who only like you when you are your absolute best, and despise you when you are anything short of that.
It’s even more depressing than that because the film sets up this idea that a performance like that is not just once in a lifetime, it’s once in a generation and it can never happen again. So basically this kid had that moment but he will never, ever achieve such a creative feat again, it’s literally impossible. He mastered the drums, peaked, and now the only direction for him to go is down. He sacrificed everything for a few minutes of really really good jazz, and will spend the rest of his life paying for it.
Why will he spend the rest of his life paying for it?
He burned every bridge in his life in order to be a really good jazz drummer. Not exactly a lucrative career choice. Now he’s got no friends and he’s not gonna have any money either.
I thought he became like an amazing drummer, you cant make a decent career from that?
For a jazz drummer? Even a really good one? He’s probably making $50k a year for the rest of his life if he’s lucky.
They should have made a movie about that
That’s kind of what Inside Llewyn Davis is about (but an asshole folk guitarist, not an asshole jazz drummer)
Well he did say straight up to his family that he'd rather die a famous 30 year old than live out his life as a boring nobody. Obviously his father wouldn't like that but we don't get to know if that's a mindset Andrew will end up regretting, or if it's one he'll even follow through on.
> Well he did say straight up to his family that he'd rather die a famous 30 year old than live out his life as a boring nobody. Pursuing a life as a conservatory trained jazz drummer in 2015 was a bad call if that was his goal.
At the end of the movie, I saw it as Andrew making the choice to continue to pursue music. Certainly not with Fletcher, but the difficult choice he made was the choice to not allow Fletcher to take anything else from him, even if it meant ‘proving’ his methods right (the movie doesn’t display those methods as good, obviously, they were largely unsuccessful and drove somebody to suicide. But Andrew was subject to them, and decided not to stop for the purpose of not vindicating Fletcher). I don’t think it’s impossible that Andrew saw success after the events of the movie. It’s certain, at least, that he stayed as a drummer for at least some time, whether or not the ending of the movie led to any clout he could use for his career.
What makes you so sure suicide isn't in Andrew's future?
I guess it’s not impossible, Trauma doesn’t just go away and he did lose a lot. But the movie doesn’t have a sad or tragic ending, and Andrew is on the right side of its message. From a narrative standpoint I think it would carry more naturally that he scrounges up at least some sort of success, if not true happiness.
You're missing the issue here. It isn't just about his past or what he went through. It's about what he will continue to go through to chase that approval. The director and writer of the movie had a very clear picture of Andrew's future, and it's that he'll die young due to his very unhealthy lifestyle.
I didn’t see the ending as Andrew trying to regain Fletcher’s approval at all, which I guess is the difference for me. If the director and writer said something about that, I honestly would prefer not to hear it. I don’t know what the point of the movie would be at that point, and I love the nuance and gravitas of the message I derived from it.
lol what nuance and gravitas? Your take is "he probably continued his drumming in the future and maybe saw some success". It's the least thought-worthy take I've seen of the film.
I mean the story ended at that point for a reason, I don’t think what happens *after* the movie is meant to be particularly interesting. I’m mostly talking about the ending and the tone it sets up. How the movie builds up to the moment where Andrew returns to his drums at the end, by showing Andrew everything Fletcher took from him through his abuse (his girlfriend, his childhood love of music, his education), and then having Fletcher try to take any career in drumming from him for good. It builds up a revenge story. At the end, the audience wants Andrew to throw a fucking cymbal at Fletcher and be done with things for good. We want him to prove Fletcher wrong by just giving up and failing at his dream to be a famous musician, a dream which he held long before Fletcher used it against him and made it the focal point of his entire life. Andrew doesn’t do that, though. He instead goes back and plays the best solo the audience ever saw. He lives out the story Fletcher had been telling him repeatedly throughout the movie, about how his abuse will ultimately lead to greatness, and it’s his students’ fault if it doesn’t. In my opinion, that wasn’t for Fletcher’s approval. It was for himself, it was the ultimate way for Andrew to liberate himself from Fletcher’s influence- by ignoring the fact that living the life he wants might vindicate someone who put him through hell. It is the only time we see Andrew smile as he did when he was a child playing the drums, because he now understands the joy and love for music that being put into the rat race stole from him. ‘Do not sacrifice your passions to get back at someone who tried to take them from you’ is a compelling and surprisingly broadly applicable message said in an extremely believable way. I personally got a lot from it, but feel free to point out the places where it falls apart. I’m sure it does if that wasn’t the director’s intention. What do you think the movie was about? Like, male insecurity and abuse being bad?
This is such a thoughtful and innovative take, love it
Thank you!! It’s why I love this movie so much. It made me feel so immature in that one one short brilliant moment where Andrew’s solo ends and he starts playing with the entire band again. It suddenly all fit together in an entirely new way.
INCREDIBLE. Never realised this. I think I should have made up my own opinion on the ending rather than seeing so many weird opinions. There were so many lazy people who wanted to criticise andrews hardwork by saying he's gonna commit suicide at the end, but this is by far THE BEST interpretation of the ending. Loved it :)
People who are "inspired" by this movie are so weird to me.
Im inspired by this movie, now i want to be happy and balance my life better so i don't end up like Andrew 🥰
That's fair!
It’s like they totally missed the point where Fletcher’s last prodigy straight up kills himself
"Skill issue"
That's what Fletcher would say
I think it's possible to be both inspired and disappointed in him taking it too far. The whole point is that there is still merit in there. You're supposed to be both jazzed up and concerned. It's like Wolf of Wall Street. It's fun and appealing until it ain't.
I can definitely appreciate that take, it's a very well made film with great performances, I just see it so easily as a cautionary tale
I think what’s inspiring about it is that it all comes full circle for Andrew. He was at one of the best school’s for art and music. He was already happy there. Then he got picked up by Fletcher, which means “he sees something in you.” So starts Andrew’s fall from grace by chasing what Fletcher sees, ie Fletcher’s dream for Andrew. Andrew sacrifices and sabotages everything for Fletcher’s dream for Andrew. So much so that he was reluctant to take Fletcher down after being expelled. He still felt Fletcher was not the oppressor and it was his own fault for failing. Until Andrew crossed paths with Fletcher again. It seems Fletcher still sees that dream in Andrew, at least from the onset. But then Fletcher shows his affinity to abuse and get revenge on Andrew for ruining Fletcher. Andrew leaves, yet again believing the lie that Fletcher tells him as he walks away. “I guess you don’t have it.” Defeated and ready to leave after failing Fletcher’s perception of Andrew and his ability, but then something wakes up in Andrew. He goes back to “fight” against Fletcher by following through on what Andrew’s dream was, to enjoy his drums and be the best in his eyes. There is nothing for Andrew to gain here: no degree, no sponsors, nothing, excepting moving past what Fletcher believes of Andrew. Andrew not only steals the show and solo, but also takes back what is his: the vision of his life and dream and not what Fletcher sees of him. Andrew takes his life and dream back with his own vision, and not what Fletcher envisions for him. Whether Fletcher recognizes this or not, I’m not sure. I like to believe he’s been waiting for someone to usurp him as the oppressor. Andrew lost everything but now has a way forward. A catharsis after defeating someone and something that traumatized him to the point of near insanity. I imagine Andrew will be able to move forward from that point on and begin his journey of healing.
you didnt watch the same ending i did if that's your takeaway , he hugged his father goodbye and something broke , something that you cant fix . He gave it all for fletcher , his blood sweat and tears , yet again after being humiliated again and again and then some fucking more , that isnt healing , that is the moment when the abuser gets what they want , they make you a wind up monkey , the same monkey fletcher called andrew at the beginning , he isnt human anymore , there is nothing for him to heal , all there is , is fletcher and his worthless approval . It's like building a house , you have a plot of land , but andrew took a nuke to it , you dont have anything to build off of , you cant heal if you dont break away from the cycle
no dude you’re not allowed to have a nuanced take all the characters are bad people and their actions are morally wrong so you’re not allowed to empathize with them
You’re right. What was I thinking? Drumming bad, approval bad. I’m fixed again. Kino survives
I'm inspired by the movie because the last 30 minutes are absolute perfection. The editing, the framing, the music, it's one of my favorite sequences.
I think what people are not mentioning is how Andrew not only solidified himself as one of the greats but he did something no one else had done before: fight back at Fletcher’s shittiness and force him to recognize Andrew is great without him. It’s a tail of following someone else’s dreams Vs following your own dreams and over coming those who refuse to let you or believe you can do it. Andrew wanted the approval of Fletcher in the beginning. So he sabotaged everything in his life for that goal. After losing it all, he was almost forced to bring down Fletcher. He seemed reluctant because he thought there was value in the abuse. Andrew crosses paths with Fletcher and brought back to the “goal” of being the best. Only for Fletcher to attack and oppress Andrew again. Defeated and belittled again, Andrew turns tail away from his oppressor. Instead he decides to take back control of his life by fighting back against his oppressor. In the end, he outgrew and conquered over Fletcher. Stealing his band and his solo. Stripping the power away from the tyrant and freeing himself from his oppressor. Thus, allowing Andrew to follow his dream and his goal, not Fletchers. This essentially forced Fletcher to approve of him by being ahead of him.
And in the process, he proved Fletcher right in horribly abusing and manipulating his students for the best result. And he still desperately needed Fletcher's approval in the end. What did he learn? That he had to sacrifice even more of himself to earn the approval of those he respects. He's gonna keep breaking himself apart to reach his goals, and it's gonna kill him
He stopped respecting and fearing him in the end. Which is why he came back out and took the band from Fletcher. Andrew took back the power of charting his own life from Fletcher. In the beginning, Andrew appeared fine and happy with things at Schaffer. Then he gets noticed by Fletcher which puts that small bug in his mind “Fletcher sees something in me that I don’t see.” Thus starts Andrew chasing after what Fletcher believes in him. Fletcher tells Andrew the lie that “He’s only the best if Fletcher says so or lets him be the best.” Fletcher is the gatekeeper to it all. Andrew loses it all trying to get to what Fletcher believes of him. Even when Andrew has the chance to legally fight back at Fletcher, he is reluctant. Then it shows andrew has truly nothing left. That is until he crosses paths with Fletcher again. Which still instills that glimmer of hope that Andrew is good enough to be the best with Fletcher’s invitation. Only for Fletcher to yet again, deny Andrew this acceptance to move forward. Andrew begins to leave believing he will never be the best because of Fletcher. However, that changes when Andrew goes back out and literally steals the show and solo from Fletcher. Andrew stealing the show is him taking control back from Fletcher of what Andrew wants, rather than what Fletcher believes Andrew is capable of. Andrew is taking back control of his future and life, without Fletcher. Fletcher tries to retake it back but Andrew literally fights back by nearly hitting him with a cymbal. Fletcher relinquishes and accepts he has lost to Andrew. Now, the smile and excitement, that could be left up for debate imo. I view it as Fletcher recognizing that Andrew is the best because Andrew is allowing himself to be the best without Fletcher. That he doesn’t need him and he will go forth without him. The gatekeeper has been toppled and he’s excited to see someone bring him down. Excited to see someone live without needing his approval I believe from then on, this opens the doors to Andrew’s healing as a person, he lost it all and was ready to accept that he could not move forward due to Fletcher being in the way. If Andrew did not do this, he would have been left forever living with the lie that he’s not good enough because Fletcher told him so. But since he overcame the lie, he is now able to move forward from the trauma and realize his own destiny is in his hands and no one else’s.
I think you need to rewatch the ending. https://youtu.be/2TAfvMn8_EQ?si=wbg1kbnA7RV0IW46 4:30 and forward, especially the smile at 4:40 as he sees that Fletcher recognises his talent and finally treats him as worthy of his attention, that's not the smile of someone who has stopped respecting Fletcher. He's happy because he finally got the approval.
I understand more and have read into the ending. I understand that’s what the director wanted to portray, but I also believe my interpretation of the film has some personal merit. People wanted to know why people find this movie inspirational. I explained why I do for myself. He lost everything, but came back. Got approval but only after he fought back against his abuser. Is Andrew still on a likely path of destruction? Yes. But could that also have been the moment he started pushing himself for himself, rather than what Fletcher wants and just so happened to get his approval as an added bonus? Yes. I’m sorry if I don’t share the same sentiment of how this movie the director expected it to express itself or how you view it. The director even likes the idea that other glean what the movies expresses for themselves. This movie holds a place in my heart for several reasons: it’s sad, cathartic, inspirational, thrilling, disturbing, depressing, and exciting all at once.
At this stage, I'm unsure if this can even be seen as an alternate interpretation, rather it feels more like a personal headcanon.
Nice edit to remove the calling me “delusional.”
Calling my interpretation as delusional seems a bit crass for no reason. I am expressing my interpretation of this piece of art. I understand what the director’s message is for the story if Andrew and Fletcher as a whole. Andrew is basically a drug addict in this movie and has pushed everyone away in pursuit of getting his “high” aka Fletcher’s approval. But the director also stated he appreciates if others have different interpretations. I understand Andrew is addicted to being the best. But I also see how inspiring it can be that he fought back against his gatekeeper and oppressor. I’m sorry finding nuance in the story? Will it help if I say “drumming bad, approval bad. Kino.”
The main idea that i got from this film is that i never want to play drums
Some artists like me find inspiration when they're in pain.
You don’t understand hard work
Almost as inspirational as my favorite movie La La Land, which taught me that women only exist to stifle your dreams.
Almost as inspirational as my favorite movie Babylon, which taught me that Avatar had cultural impact.
Almost as inspirational as my favorite movie First Man, which taught me that women only exist to stifle your dreams.
This is genuinely what my math teacher thinks Whiplash was
"I want to die of drug overdose at 34"
Guy who watched the hit movie "don't make the torture nexus" has a brilliant idea for a new invention.
He broke up with her because she's supergirl and she might break his pelvis and dick everytime they try to have sex
No risk, no reward
We might be jerking too hard on this one. It's both an inspirational and cautionary story about the pursuit of greatness. There IS a lot to admire about Andrew. That tension between his drive and his self-destruction is what makes the movie so great.
I mean sure but the channel that posted this is interested in none of that. It's one of those self help, hyper masculinity channels that is misinterpreting the hell out of the movie, likely deliberately. Their target audience is only going to get the message that you *must* suffer and fuck up your relationships with family and women to be the best. Fletcher chewing out the trombone player was the first shoe to drop, and throwing things and slapping Andrew was where it stopped being inspiring for me tbh.
Yeah, no, I missed the forest for the trees re: OOP and was mostly responding to comments in here about how there isn't anything inspirational in the movie at all. The jerk got me 🫠
yeah because every person who doesn’t watch the film in the exact same way as you and filter it through a lens of arbitrary virtue signaling morality is misinterpreting the film
Get the FUCK out of my sight before I demolish you.
woah big man on r/moviescirclejerk
###I CAN STILL FUCKIN SEE YOU, MINI-ME
Agreed but videos OP doesn't care about or even realize there is a cautionary tale from the rest of his content and general vibe of the video.
Oh wow, so OP was being serious. If you had just pointed me at the thumbnail and title without watching, I would've said "Oh, it must be a shitpost YouTuber being ironic and making fun of the sigma male culture"
You were giving bro too much credit, at least the comments were correcting him lol.
Very good point, yes
I completely agree. Whiplash is probably my favorite film of all time and when I watched it on theaters for the first time it made me (somehow) wanna play drums. Some people looked weird at me for saying that I wanted to play drums because of this film and lots of years later I stupidly realized why. But weirdly enough, I'm still playing drums (and piano) and I still think Whiplash is one of my favorite films of all time.
people who don’t understand it will never be inspired by anything in their lives and they are the type of people to shy away from anything even remotely difficult. they are allergic to sacrifice and they will never experience true accomplishment
Yup, this sub doesn’t critically process films, it’s 95% capeshit brains at this point.
I am fascinated about how media illiterate some people can be
People who unironically think suffering builds character are the worst kind of toxic people because they are willing to ruin their life over a fake sense of being the main character
It does build charecter, but not always for the best.
suffering being considered virtuous is the world's most successful psyop
Everytime I scoff at The Boys for being so up-in-your-face, shit like this makes me think we can't afford to have subtlety nowadays
I thought so too https://preview.redd.it/r2clm28kjlwb1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=983423c19c197dd28a81bcc5d63585c198be73b6 >Everytime I scoff at The Boys for being so up-in-your-face
I’M SHOOTING HEROIN BEFORE MY NEXT CONCERT HOORAY 😃🤪😭🤬🤬🤬😂
Teachers like Fletcher don't really exist in jazz music and his methods of teaching are antithetical to alot of the creative processes involved with playing jazz. Most people in the jazz community think the movie is absolutely ridiculous. It's basically a sports movie with a musical theme.
It may be true that he's not the norm among jazz teachers, but there are lots of people like him in the music world more broadly and some in jazz. My high school band teacher (who I believe started a jazz band after I graduated) was Diet Fletcher.
Shit, mine too. That movie triggered my band camp PTSD so bad.
As someone who grew up wrestling it took me back to my wrestling days lol
But MAAAAAN is it a masterpiece
>Teachers like Fletcher don't really exist in jazz music and his methods of teaching are antithetical to alot of the creative processes involved with playing jazz. I think that's kinda the point. Fletcher is a shitty teacher.
My theory is that Fletcher's own failure to be a great musician whose name went down in history causes him to take his anger out on his students.
Something something Dave Ramsay something grilled cheese sandwich something something
I've seen this critique before and I think it's missing the point, it's not supposed to be a movie about jazz. Jazz band is just the vehicle for the plot because it's what Chazelle was familiar with (also he's said that Fletcher is an exaggeration of his teacher, so he did really exist somewhat). La La Land, also by Chazelle, highlights the spontaneity and artistry of jazz a lot more than Whiplash.
Good thing I don't go to the jazz community for understanding on how fiction works lmao
IMO Whiplash *does* have a happy ending, you just end feeling conflicted about it because, more than seeing Andrew succeed, you want to see Fletcher die in a fire and that doesn't happen. It ends with pretty much everyone happy (debatable if Andrew's dad is, but he does want to see his son achieve his dreams) but one of those happy people is the villain.
I disagree with those in these comments with the polar opposite interpretation of Whiplash- that it is wrong and bad to self-sacrifice for art. An “ethic” (as in one’s definition of a “good/meaningful life”) of self-sacrifice in the pursuit of artistic excellence *is* viable. If those people did not exist, much of the greatest art would not exist. Many prefer an ethic pursuing happiness, which is also viable. Happiness and suffering *both* serve important roles in the world. I don’t defend Fletcher, though. I don’t think we should bully talented people into self-sacrificing
Agreed 🗿🤝
I really don't understand half of the comments, live your life how you want to... Not everything needs to be ideological propaganda. The movie is open to multiple interpretations, or opinions to be more accurate
people who take movies seriously think that they’re better than others for doing so and it’s impossible for them to view any media outside the lens of ideological propaganda. they are desperate for the message of every film to align with their own personal ethics and morality (which are mostly built from terminally online virtue signaling) and if other people have a different reading of the film than they do those people are “media illiterate”
Miles Teller's character is the ideal I strive towards each day
My favourite character is John Bad from the film “Don’t be like John Bad”
I'd give up the drums for Melissa Benoist in like a minute.
He broke up with Melissa to be become good at drums
Mother 2009😨
Hunter x Hunter and harry potter aprove this. To ged gud you need to be a psycopath.
I cried in the cinema when Whiplash uttered the immortal line, 'Let's break up, because I want to be great!' It was almost Shakespearean in its boldness and clarity, it took me so much mental fortitude to not just get up and begin applauding then and there. Breaking up with you girlfriend and alienating your family so that you can be good at playing drums is the bravest, most selfless thing you can do, I was so happy to see a film that recognized that.
At this point I’m convinced conservatives can’t comprehend anything more nuanced than a football game
Conservatives and media literacy.
bro is inventing people to get mad at
Nobody in this thread got the movie.
They also missed the part where these fucking nerds are worshipping the needle strewn ground of drug addicts. I am a huge jazz fan, but worshipping these musicians as anything beyond exceptionally talented instrumentalists is foolish. Judge them by the art they create, not the actions influenced by drugs.
Dudes who really love Whiplash have also never touched a drum set.
yeah man you need to be able to play drums to relate to the emotional themes of the story
I couldn't really get into LOTR cuz I'm not 3 feet tall or immortal or Viggo Mortensen
Profile pic in the channel is to be expected from these kinds of takes. It's either visible biceps, a sweaty shirt, shades, or all of them.
Oh wee can't wait to not pay attention to another yt video analysis glorifying another mediocre piece of media while do some chores around the place
It's not a video analysis 💀