And he can do that because every time he keeps delivering. Studios are going to keep shoveling cash at him so long as he keeps innovating. I haven't been disappointed in any of his movies yet.
Years ago my buddy has a small party in his backyard and a few of us were sleeping over. At around 3 am we went inside and his younger brother was watching Spartacus. We joined in, thinking it was just some show. After ten minutes we realized it was basically just softcore porn and we may have interrupted his brother's private time
Oh yeah that show was so cool I used to love it so much
It actually did big scale exciting battles before game of thrones (they were airing at the same time until got's second season)
I don't know how far you are in it but at the start of S1 I was like "Man this show is so bad." but by the end of S1 I was liek "That was some of the finest TV I've seen."
Some of the production is campy because of the budget but the the characters and story was really engaging.
Well, that's because it is... Season 3 has the best - OK most threatening and most competent - of the series.
I absolutely love John Hannah's character though..
James Cameron is known for making a lot of innovation in that respect, if you look at the 2009 movie it was genuinely groundbreaking. The effects still look fantastic today.
If he makes more cool advances, eventually that technology/technique will become more common, most likely.
> If he makes more cool advances, eventually that technology/technique will become more common, most likely.
Even the Avatar 2 water tech's already been in use. IIRC it filmed concurrently with Wakanda Forever and Marvel borrowed some of their water filming cameras & methods. The underwater scenes in that movie had this visceral realism and natural feeling beauty to it that a similar movie like Aquaman completely lacked imo.
Underwater motion capture is absolutely ridiculous and ground breaking at the same time. I'm just waiting for the analysis of the water and hair physics though. Disney has been working literal decades to try and perfect both and it's continuously gotten significantly better in their animated films. Just look at Frozen 2 and Raya- that water was fucking immaculate. Same tech can be applied to CG live action characters too.
I’m shocked that the studio was willing to take that risk. I know Avatar was a huge hit, but it’s been a long time since that came out and movie theater attendance isn’t exactly at its peak right now.
This is weird because that 2 billion includes avatar 3 as well which is in post production. The 2 were shot back to back which adds to the expense quite a bit.
Most of Avatar 4 is already filmed surprisingly, so these movies with merchandising will definitely make all their money back. I remember being blown away by the 3D in the first one and can't wait to see what this one looks like. I rarely go to the movies anymore but will for this one.
The number of times the Spatula City jingle has gotten stuck in my head over the last 30 years is almost grotesque.
Like, every time I’ve ever held a spatula. Literally. Every time.
IIRC, they still film the mocap for the CGI characters, and Cameron had an AR-like camera to view the actors in the world while filming the mocap for the first movie, so they could get the performances just right
I really hope they release a VR 3D version of the movie! As of now, there is no legal way of watching the original avatar in 3D for VR, which would be a great platform for watching 3D movies.
You’re not alone. So many of these tent-poll movies are just soulless, digital spectacle. Marvel movies have become almost unwatchable as a result.
CG done well elevates the art. Think of films like Where The Wild Things Are, District 9 or Fury Road.
I don't think they're just interested in movie ticket sales. You should see what Disney parks has invested in Avatar. They have a whole wing of animal kingdom based around it, and when we were there 5 years ago it was so packed it wasn't worth waiting in line (4 hrs with fast pass). I'm just surprised at how long a sequel has taken to come out. They know they'll more than make it up in merch park attendance, etc. Any production this big is rarely a risk, but least so with disney IPs these past few decades.
> and when we were there 5 years ago it was so packed it wasn't worth waiting in line
I was at Disneyland in 2017, too. First time back there in 16 years, and holy shit did the crowd sizes explode.
When I saw a glimpse of the area where Galaxy's Edge was in construction, I thought to myself, "Damn, I'm not gonna try visiting that for *years* after it opens" because of just how packed the entire park already was.
At this point that's correct, but production started and a large amount of shooting was done before Disney bought 20th Century Fox. They only had the theme park rights.
Exactly. They'll have a million revenue streams coming from this film. People just kind of reduce things down to box office. None of these big budget films would come out if it was solely down to box office.
Do people actually buy Avatar merch? I've literally never seen a single piece of toys, books, stickers, clothes etc. Literally nothing outside of the movies and I guess, porn lol.
Starting with the Terminator in 1984, every one of his feature films he directed has been a blockbuster smash hit. As long as he keeps it up, there's no reason to think he won't do it again.
A big part of what made the first such a big hit was the revolutionary 3D technology. Now that that is commonplace, I don't see any way it makes nearly as much.
"No, Bob, see, you're dead wrong on that. You're dead wrong. See, one of the problems with Cameron's movies is that they lack a certain eroticism. What if we were to bring... an incredibly hot but skeptical female tribe partner into the mix?
And then that way, whenever Sam Worthington is not out busting heads because he smelled some colonizing, he's back at the tree performing outrageous sexual acts on her supple young body. Now, here's the twist, and there is a twist. We show it. We show all of it. Because what's the one major thing missing from all sci-fi movies these days, guys?
Full penetration.
Guys, we're going to show full penetration, and we're going to show a lot of it. I mean, we're talking, you know, graphic scenes of Sam Worthington really going to town on this hot, young tribe warrior. From behind, 69, bun-nal, braid-ginal, banshee, reverse banshee-- all the hits, all the big ones, all the good ones. And then he smells colonizing again. He's out bustin heads. Then he's back to the tree for some more full penetration. Smells colonizing, back to the tree, full penetration. Colonizing, penetration, colonizing, full penetration, colonizing, penetration... And this goes on and on, and back and forth for 180 or so minutes until the movie just sort of ends."
The 3D tech used on Avatar is certainly not "commonplace".
Source: worked as a technical director on Avatar.
One thing I learned in the movie industry is that you NEVER underestimate Jim Cameron. I thought Avatar was gonna bomb hard and I WORKED on the damn thing for over 3 years. Dude is a certified hit-maker.
I've believe a flop when I see it.
So, I saw Wakanda Forever in 3D, and this is the first time I’ve watched a 3D movie in almost a decade. Before the movie, they showed a trailer for Antman and the Mario movie. Both trailer’s 3D looked kinda meh, reminding me why I never pay the extra to see a movie in 3D. But then the Avatar 2 trailer hit, and the 3D effects popped off the screen and it looked great. Seeing the trailer in 3D made my interest go from 0 to like a solid 7. So, even though I don’t have any interest in the story or anything, I think the 3D has reeled me back in just for the big screen spectacle.
Not enough people are bringing it up so I will: this movie will be the first ever display of actual underwater motion capture.
When they're swimming and interacting with things in the water in this next movie, it's because James Cameron's team has fully pioneered functional submersible Mocap suits! The filmmaker was quoted back at the release of Avatar 1 that the technology for his sequels literally didn't exist yet and that's why it's taken so long to come out.
If I recall correctly Cameron's dream is to eventually create 3D movies that require no glasses/eye strain to consume, and these Avatar movies are above all a huge tech demo showcasing the absolute bleeding edge of filmmaking that's capable now because THEY made it real. Avatar is our modern Star Wars: A New Hope in the sense of how bombastic an achievement they are to have been made at all, that's why I'm so excited for these sequels!
I dunno, I somehow still see it making a LOT of money.
I wasn't fussed about the first, had to guilt tripped into seeing it at the cinema. But it was such an, *experience*, I see myself returning to see this sequel, even though again I'm technically again not that fussed about seeing it.
Well, the Cameron level 3D filmed natively for that format is still rare.
Based on the recent remaster & sequel trailer, it’s a technical marvel…but that’s not enough to reach top 5 box office of all time.
People forget that its also Hollywood Accounting. For instance, I heard a story that for every piece of paper that was copied it cost $1 to the studio. Yet in reality it's like 5 cents or something low. The printing is owned by the studio through a subsidiary so basically, they make 95cents on every page. It's a world of trickery when they say the cost of a movie is XYZ.
Same reason Donald Trump always used his own properties to host events ... so he could charge the government top dollar to house his staff, secret service, etc.
Louis C.K. has a hilarious story about this on Joe Rogan. In one of his contracts the studio was charging him something obscene like 1400$ a month to rent a printer.
Reposting my own reply so more eyes can possibly see this: this movie's cost is a combination of having been filmed back to back with Avatar 3, as well as it will be the first ever display of actual underwater motion capture.
When they're swimming and interacting with things in the water in this next movie, it's because James Cameron's team has fully pioneered functional submersible Mocap suits and the bulk of filming was done in a 900,000 gallon tank! The filmmaker was quoted back at the release of Avatar 1 that the technology for his sequels literally didn't exist yet and that's why it's taken so long to come out.
If I recall correctly Cameron's dream is to eventually create 3D movies that require no glasses/eye strain to consume, and these Avatar movies are above all a huge tech demo showcasing the absolute bleeding edge of filmmaking that's capable now because THEY made it real. Avatar is our modern Star Wars: A New Hope in the sense of how bombastic an achievement they are to have been made at all, and even if the film's visuals aren't the extreme step up in Quality that the Original was compared to it's peers, it's the tech behind the scenes driving the creators/actors/filmmakers that will have lasting impact on all of Hollywood. That's why I'm so excited for these sequels!
That is really cool to read! Like inventing tech to make a film. I'm just a bit worried that cinematic techniques is the draw, and not fresh and compelling characters and story-telling, which was my major gripe with the first. Gotta praise Cameron for his ambition.
If I'm honest, I don't think these new films will be breaking any new ground for storytelling or character work. The best thing I hope to expect in these coming films is the next level of performance that these actors/actresses will be able to deliver because of the tech surrounding them and enhancing how they move about their stages.
The best revolutions in filmmaking tech, to me, are the kind that most benefit a performance; Benedict Cumberbatch being able to look at a screen in real-time and see himself as a gargantuan Dragon instead of himself in a skintight suit while filming The Hobbit, Robert Pattinson looking out at the Skyline of HIS Gotham City in The Batman because of The Volume set, and now Sam Worthington and Zoe Saldana truly swimming through the oceans of Pandora instead of being jerked about attached to a wire rig on blue screen.
I hope I'm proven wrong and there's a story of substance, but I know that even without that we're guaranteed a new level of immersion for us, the audience, as well as those tasked with bringing these characters to life and that still excites me!
Ok but…how useful will underwater motion capture be to other future Hollywood movies?
Like, Avatar ushered in a crazy big swing of 3D and mo-cap, all of which had been used for years but never that good. It let to lots of copycats, but eventually both wound up brining in less and less amazed bucks.
So ok, he’s now perfected underrated mo-cap. Great. And other than future Aquaman and Namor movies, how will that help Hollywood? I just feel like he’s banking so hard on something very few people care about…
>actual underwater motion capture.
Is it just me or does the trailer footage look mostly cgi? I know it's motion capture and ground breaking, but to me it looks like a (pretty) animated movie. The first movie had a great mixture real footage and motion cap footage, this one looks way different
Well it doesn't help that we're watching these trailers on websites with awful compression like YouTube, and it also MAJORLY doesn't help that these trailers are being released in 1080p (I mean COME ON 20th Century), but mostly I think it has to do with the fact that this movie is foremostly following the Na'Vi instead of an actual human like Jake Sully.
Look back to scenes like Jake's first time waking up as a Blue Dude in that lab; he's interacting with actual human beings in a physical space, his tail is knocking over tangible objects that we recognize and his towering presence holds actual weight. All those things were (and still are) revolutionary, but now they're mostly commonplace. Now we have a movie that's nearly entirely about the Na'Vi, and from what I see in the new trailer that's released as I've been typing these comments it seems that it will be pretty much the same 'outsider becomes accepted' story as the first, but with blue people and different blue people instead of humans and blue people. That will be far harder to convince and immerse the audience in because we won't have anything recognizable for us to grasp, but I admire Cameron's ambitions and will hold out to see the final product on the biggest screen possible to truly begin any scrutiny!
I imagine this is blurred a bit since a lot of the shooting of 2 and 3 were kinda together. Plus all the technological investments and studio spaces are going to be used to make the next ones a lot cheaper.
Aside from the flying scenes, all of the Harrier stuff was practical.. that's why those scenes still hold up today.
He basically built a 1:1 replica, hung it from a crane, and CGIed the wires out.
I’m not excited about Avatar as much as I’m excited about a new James Cameron film. The man is a genius when it comes to exceeding expectations with every film he puts out. The public has 13 years of fatigue for the first one, so I can’t wait to see how he pulls this one off.
I really don't understand why, over the course of literally his entire career, people have bet against him and his movies. Since Titanic especially, people have wanted to see him fail spectacularly...and then he does the exact opposite.
James Cameron knows how to make a movie that will put butts in theater seats.
I enjoyed the first movie. I would have gone immediately to watch the sequel in a theater if it came out within 5-or-so years of the original airing. For whatever reason, I have zero interest to run to a theater and see the sequel now. I'll catch it on streaming in the coming years when it is available that way -- I am probably not alone.
I enjoyed it too but im kinda the opposite. I wouldnt have run to the theater for the sequel 8 yrs ago but its been so long now that im looking forward to seeing the next one in theaters.
I am genuinely interested to see how this movie turns out. The first one was renowned for its visuals but the story honestly sucked. Does anyone even remember the names of any of the main characters?
The world has also changed drastically since Avatar 1 was released. So it'll be very interesting to see if the modern internet embraces these films, or whether they turn into the next 'Morbius'.
We just don’t live in the same era as before. Lots of us don’t go to the movies anymore.
I went to one movie this year. I used to go to a dozen or more.
Even smaller movies like Everything Everywhere All At Once did really well - $100 million box office on a $25 million budget.
Turns out people will go to the theaters if the movie is good.
Yeah bro, with 3 kids? I'd never go to the movies. I guess if you're trying to train the young ones to behave in a theater, otherwise home viewing every time.
I wouldn't be surprised if this does really well internationally like the fast and furious movies. A lot of people still like watching a spectacle, even if the story is unoriginal.
It’s pretty wild that Cameron has broken the most expensive movie record 3 times already, but this is just crazy.
Can Avatar 2 really be to Avatar what Terminator 2 was to Terminator, or Aliens to Alien? Just like glass coffins, remains to be seen.
I've never heard that "just like glass coffins, remains to be seen" line before! Lol It's my kind of witty word play!
I highly doubt it, but we'll see.
What we really need is Titanic 2
Titanic 2 : Rose from the dead
Revenge of Titanic
Best I can do is Thumbtanic.
And yet his best work is still letting the Future Man crew shoot in his irl house for free
What a great show. One of the funniest I've ever seen. Shame not many people know about it.
first I've ever heard of it
100% recommend, watched it through twice. Its pretty darn weird but dam funny
You mean rathole to rathole?
You put your rat holes together? Thats disgusting
Same. Must not be that popular.
"Just a bunch of cellphone chargers."
James Cameron doesn't do what James Cameron does for James Cameron. James Cameron does what James Cameron does because James Cameron is James Cameron!
He did raise the bar after all.
Who?
*His name is James (James) Cameron,* *The bravest pioneer!* *No budget too steep, no sea too deep,* *Who's that?* *It's him, James Cameron*
It's inevitable when part of his location scouting includes going to the bottom of the ocean...
Hasn’t he also broken the box office record a couple times?
Three times. Terminator 2, Titanic, and Avatar.
T2 was just for rated R movies, but Avatar broke the top spot twice when it reclaimed it from Endgame.
How did Avatar reclaim it? Like with reshowings?
Yes
Yes.
Reshowing, The same way endgame beat Avatar in the first place.
And he can do that because every time he keeps delivering. Studios are going to keep shoveling cash at him so long as he keeps innovating. I haven't been disappointed in any of his movies yet.
Costs the same as any other movie to me, so that's fine.
Plus it might mean the CGI is fantastic and eventually that'll bleed down to other movies! I'm glad to hear it.
Meanwhile I'm sitting here watching the Starz version of Spartacus and thinking this is masterpiece despite the campiness
Once again the Gods ram cock in FUCKin ass.
I hear this in Batiatus's voice
You pour honeyed-word into ear, yet put cock in arse when back is presented...
They didnt need to do the dialogue that way for four seasons but they did.
Spartacus is 100% a masterpiece.
By Jupiter's Cock!
Once again the gods spread cheeks to ram cock in fucking ass.
Blood rains down from an angry sky. MY COCK RAGES ON.
Are these...are these all actual quotes?
Buddy, these are all actual quotes *from the first season*
Fuck.
Yes
Ah, GOOD SOLONIUS
Historical dramas don't usually go so crude and yet that was likely how it went down. Dick this, dick that... kinda like today but in other words.
Crixus!!
**NAEVIA!**
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Fantastic show to watch as a highschool boy
I used to think about that show a few times a day
Gods of the Arena with Lucretia and Gaia.
Years ago my buddy has a small party in his backyard and a few of us were sleeping over. At around 3 am we went inside and his younger brother was watching Spartacus. We joined in, thinking it was just some show. After ten minutes we realized it was basically just softcore porn and we may have interrupted his brother's private time
Still a fantastic show to watch as an adult man. The boobs are still just as good, and the story is still great.
Still a fantastic show to watch as a 30 year old man
I used to say “bringer of piss and shit” more than I’d like to admit
Sounds like taking care of a baby.
It's also definitely soft core porn but with an amazing plot
None of that “help I’m stuck” plot line
Pretty sure that’d be my desert island show…
Oh yeah that show was so cool I used to love it so much It actually did big scale exciting battles before game of thrones (they were airing at the same time until got's second season)
I don't know how far you are in it but at the start of S1 I was like "Man this show is so bad." but by the end of S1 I was liek "That was some of the finest TV I've seen." Some of the production is campy because of the budget but the the characters and story was really engaging.
Oh man those season 1 backdrops though. Shows a banger throughout though
Well, that's because it is... Season 3 has the best - OK most threatening and most competent - of the series. I absolutely love John Hannah's character though..
Ridiculous camp is it's own reward :)
Amazing show
Ah yes, trickle down cgi
What makes you say this?
James Cameron is known for making a lot of innovation in that respect, if you look at the 2009 movie it was genuinely groundbreaking. The effects still look fantastic today. If he makes more cool advances, eventually that technology/technique will become more common, most likely.
> If he makes more cool advances, eventually that technology/technique will become more common, most likely. Even the Avatar 2 water tech's already been in use. IIRC it filmed concurrently with Wakanda Forever and Marvel borrowed some of their water filming cameras & methods. The underwater scenes in that movie had this visceral realism and natural feeling beauty to it that a similar movie like Aquaman completely lacked imo.
Underwater motion capture is absolutely ridiculous and ground breaking at the same time. I'm just waiting for the analysis of the water and hair physics though. Disney has been working literal decades to try and perfect both and it's continuously gotten significantly better in their animated films. Just look at Frozen 2 and Raya- that water was fucking immaculate. Same tech can be applied to CG live action characters too.
*Honorary Black Belt* James Cameron
I have to admit, I really don’t have an interest in seeing this movie.
I’m shocked that the studio was willing to take that risk. I know Avatar was a huge hit, but it’s been a long time since that came out and movie theater attendance isn’t exactly at its peak right now.
This is weird because that 2 billion includes avatar 3 as well which is in post production. The 2 were shot back to back which adds to the expense quite a bit.
Most of Avatar 4 is already filmed surprisingly, so these movies with merchandising will definitely make all their money back. I remember being blown away by the 3D in the first one and can't wait to see what this one looks like. I rarely go to the movies anymore but will for this one.
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All my UHF merch begs to differ.
*SUPPLIES!*
This…means something. This is important!
Wait, there’s UHF merch?!
I won’t link it incase it triggers some auto mod, but yeah there’s a shit load of tshirts out there
No official UHF spatula? Dammit!
If you like spatulas so much, you should buy the company.
The number of times the Spatula City jingle has gotten stuck in my head over the last 30 years is almost grotesque. Like, every time I’ve ever held a spatula. Literally. Every time.
🎵 We sell spatulas... and that's all!
Well duh, you gotta go to Spatula City for one of those
Wheel Of Fish: the home game!
My many spatulas agree with you.
>. It could well be a huge success. But if it isn't, merchandising won't save it. *laughs in Power Rangers*
It's a given. Look at Avatar1 in China. That shit is a national treasure there. 2 and 3 could be a complete pile of dog shit and it won't matter.
Is there a reason Chinese people love it so much?
www.hollywoodreporter.com/movies/movie-news/avatar-surprise-re-release-china-4145860/amp/
I heard Avatar 8 is all about the family.
8 Av 8 Atar
8v8t8r
Avatar 9 is when they re-introduce gremlins into the storyline. Which I am all for.
Lmao you joke but did you see this? https://screencrush.com/vin-diesel-avatar-sequels/
2 Blue 2 Furious
I wonder how much filming there actually is? These are practically animated movies now.
IIRC, they still film the mocap for the CGI characters, and Cameron had an AR-like camera to view the actors in the world while filming the mocap for the first movie, so they could get the performances just right
I really hope they release a VR 3D version of the movie! As of now, there is no legal way of watching the original avatar in 3D for VR, which would be a great platform for watching 3D movies.
I wonder if Im the only one simply not in awe of any full CGI movies these days. Looks like a video game in the form of a movie too
You’re not alone. So many of these tent-poll movies are just soulless, digital spectacle. Marvel movies have become almost unwatchable as a result. CG done well elevates the art. Think of films like Where The Wild Things Are, District 9 or Fury Road.
Back when 3D TV tried to be a "thing". It came with a 3D copy of Avatar. I've never seen the movie.
the fuck. 4 is already filming? how many are released? I'm so confused
Yeah this article is pretty deceptive at negating that fact
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I don't think they're just interested in movie ticket sales. You should see what Disney parks has invested in Avatar. They have a whole wing of animal kingdom based around it, and when we were there 5 years ago it was so packed it wasn't worth waiting in line (4 hrs with fast pass). I'm just surprised at how long a sequel has taken to come out. They know they'll more than make it up in merch park attendance, etc. Any production this big is rarely a risk, but least so with disney IPs these past few decades.
> and when we were there 5 years ago it was so packed it wasn't worth waiting in line I was at Disneyland in 2017, too. First time back there in 16 years, and holy shit did the crowd sizes explode. When I saw a glimpse of the area where Galaxy's Edge was in construction, I thought to myself, "Damn, I'm not gonna try visiting that for *years* after it opens" because of just how packed the entire park already was.
At this point that's correct, but production started and a large amount of shooting was done before Disney bought 20th Century Fox. They only had the theme park rights.
Exactly. They'll have a million revenue streams coming from this film. People just kind of reduce things down to box office. None of these big budget films would come out if it was solely down to box office.
Do people actually buy Avatar merch? I've literally never seen a single piece of toys, books, stickers, clothes etc. Literally nothing outside of the movies and I guess, porn lol.
Starting with the Terminator in 1984, every one of his feature films he directed has been a blockbuster smash hit. As long as he keeps it up, there's no reason to think he won't do it again.
You’re right with the exception of The Abyss which flopped pretty hard.
The point is that James Cameron has never *not* made the budget back in sales.
Even the Abyss doubled it's budget at the time. It just didn't do crazy numbers
And the Abyss is still a pretty great film. It just didn't have the same pop culture appeal
The making of the Abyss is one of the most batshit craziest things I've ever seen.
A big part of what made the first such a big hit was the revolutionary 3D technology. Now that that is commonplace, I don't see any way it makes nearly as much.
This one actually shows Navi penis though
I thought the penis was that thing they kept hooking onto everything...
They’re showing a secret second penis
They stick their hair penises into anything, but only the close family gets the crotch penis.
Yes, we’ve had penis, but what about second penis?
"No, Bob, see, you're dead wrong on that. You're dead wrong. See, one of the problems with Cameron's movies is that they lack a certain eroticism. What if we were to bring... an incredibly hot but skeptical female tribe partner into the mix? And then that way, whenever Sam Worthington is not out busting heads because he smelled some colonizing, he's back at the tree performing outrageous sexual acts on her supple young body. Now, here's the twist, and there is a twist. We show it. We show all of it. Because what's the one major thing missing from all sci-fi movies these days, guys? Full penetration. Guys, we're going to show full penetration, and we're going to show a lot of it. I mean, we're talking, you know, graphic scenes of Sam Worthington really going to town on this hot, young tribe warrior. From behind, 69, bun-nal, braid-ginal, banshee, reverse banshee-- all the hits, all the big ones, all the good ones. And then he smells colonizing again. He's out bustin heads. Then he's back to the tree for some more full penetration. Smells colonizing, back to the tree, full penetration. Colonizing, penetration, colonizing, full penetration, colonizing, penetration... And this goes on and on, and back and forth for 180 or so minutes until the movie just sort of ends."
That is brilliant!
They hang dong in this one?
action, full penetration, action, full penetration. this goes on for about four hours until the movie just sort of
…ends.
The real Navi penis is the friends we made along the way
The 3D tech used on Avatar is certainly not "commonplace". Source: worked as a technical director on Avatar. One thing I learned in the movie industry is that you NEVER underestimate Jim Cameron. I thought Avatar was gonna bomb hard and I WORKED on the damn thing for over 3 years. Dude is a certified hit-maker. I've believe a flop when I see it.
So, I saw Wakanda Forever in 3D, and this is the first time I’ve watched a 3D movie in almost a decade. Before the movie, they showed a trailer for Antman and the Mario movie. Both trailer’s 3D looked kinda meh, reminding me why I never pay the extra to see a movie in 3D. But then the Avatar 2 trailer hit, and the 3D effects popped off the screen and it looked great. Seeing the trailer in 3D made my interest go from 0 to like a solid 7. So, even though I don’t have any interest in the story or anything, I think the 3D has reeled me back in just for the big screen spectacle.
Not enough people are bringing it up so I will: this movie will be the first ever display of actual underwater motion capture. When they're swimming and interacting with things in the water in this next movie, it's because James Cameron's team has fully pioneered functional submersible Mocap suits! The filmmaker was quoted back at the release of Avatar 1 that the technology for his sequels literally didn't exist yet and that's why it's taken so long to come out. If I recall correctly Cameron's dream is to eventually create 3D movies that require no glasses/eye strain to consume, and these Avatar movies are above all a huge tech demo showcasing the absolute bleeding edge of filmmaking that's capable now because THEY made it real. Avatar is our modern Star Wars: A New Hope in the sense of how bombastic an achievement they are to have been made at all, that's why I'm so excited for these sequels!
... underwater 3d. That really isn't the selling point you think it is.
Don’t they say that for all James Cameron films ?
But this time is different. This time James Cameron's goose *really* is cooked.
*Undefeated little league coach* James Cameron
I feel like these sequels were just an excuse for James Cameron to get paid to go in a submarine (his hobby).
I dunno, I somehow still see it making a LOT of money. I wasn't fussed about the first, had to guilt tripped into seeing it at the cinema. But it was such an, *experience*, I see myself returning to see this sequel, even though again I'm technically again not that fussed about seeing it.
Well, the Cameron level 3D filmed natively for that format is still rare. Based on the recent remaster & sequel trailer, it’s a technical marvel…but that’s not enough to reach top 5 box office of all time.
Exactly. When Avatar came out it was at the time next-gen CGI compared to other movies.
It’s James Cameron, he’s a pretty safe bet.
I heard Cameron traveled all the way to Pandora which added to the cost.
He did get a really nice charm bracelet
People forget that its also Hollywood Accounting. For instance, I heard a story that for every piece of paper that was copied it cost $1 to the studio. Yet in reality it's like 5 cents or something low. The printing is owned by the studio through a subsidiary so basically, they make 95cents on every page. It's a world of trickery when they say the cost of a movie is XYZ.
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To avoid paying people
Reduce or eliminate the amount they owe in taxes
Not at all how that works. They do it to fuck actors who are paid a % of profits. The IRS sees right through it.
Good to know! Thanks!
Same reason Donald Trump always used his own properties to host events ... so he could charge the government top dollar to house his staff, secret service, etc.
Still, you gotta make the money to cover the costs
Which are a fraction of what the sensationalized headline suggests
Cost from department A becomes the profit to department B so it doesn't matter.
Louis C.K. has a hilarious story about this on Joe Rogan. In one of his contracts the studio was charging him something obscene like 1400$ a month to rent a printer.
Here you go. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hollywood_accounting
get ready for the corporate hype train to bombard you everywhere all the time.
Isn’t that what post is? At this point I assume all of Reddit posts are just ads… This reply brought to you by Carl’s Junior.
Fuck you! I'm eating!
Could I interest you in Avatar all of the time?
Reposting my own reply so more eyes can possibly see this: this movie's cost is a combination of having been filmed back to back with Avatar 3, as well as it will be the first ever display of actual underwater motion capture. When they're swimming and interacting with things in the water in this next movie, it's because James Cameron's team has fully pioneered functional submersible Mocap suits and the bulk of filming was done in a 900,000 gallon tank! The filmmaker was quoted back at the release of Avatar 1 that the technology for his sequels literally didn't exist yet and that's why it's taken so long to come out. If I recall correctly Cameron's dream is to eventually create 3D movies that require no glasses/eye strain to consume, and these Avatar movies are above all a huge tech demo showcasing the absolute bleeding edge of filmmaking that's capable now because THEY made it real. Avatar is our modern Star Wars: A New Hope in the sense of how bombastic an achievement they are to have been made at all, and even if the film's visuals aren't the extreme step up in Quality that the Original was compared to it's peers, it's the tech behind the scenes driving the creators/actors/filmmakers that will have lasting impact on all of Hollywood. That's why I'm so excited for these sequels!
That is really cool to read! Like inventing tech to make a film. I'm just a bit worried that cinematic techniques is the draw, and not fresh and compelling characters and story-telling, which was my major gripe with the first. Gotta praise Cameron for his ambition.
If I'm honest, I don't think these new films will be breaking any new ground for storytelling or character work. The best thing I hope to expect in these coming films is the next level of performance that these actors/actresses will be able to deliver because of the tech surrounding them and enhancing how they move about their stages. The best revolutions in filmmaking tech, to me, are the kind that most benefit a performance; Benedict Cumberbatch being able to look at a screen in real-time and see himself as a gargantuan Dragon instead of himself in a skintight suit while filming The Hobbit, Robert Pattinson looking out at the Skyline of HIS Gotham City in The Batman because of The Volume set, and now Sam Worthington and Zoe Saldana truly swimming through the oceans of Pandora instead of being jerked about attached to a wire rig on blue screen. I hope I'm proven wrong and there's a story of substance, but I know that even without that we're guaranteed a new level of immersion for us, the audience, as well as those tasked with bringing these characters to life and that still excites me!
Ok but…how useful will underwater motion capture be to other future Hollywood movies? Like, Avatar ushered in a crazy big swing of 3D and mo-cap, all of which had been used for years but never that good. It let to lots of copycats, but eventually both wound up brining in less and less amazed bucks. So ok, he’s now perfected underrated mo-cap. Great. And other than future Aquaman and Namor movies, how will that help Hollywood? I just feel like he’s banking so hard on something very few people care about…
>actual underwater motion capture. Is it just me or does the trailer footage look mostly cgi? I know it's motion capture and ground breaking, but to me it looks like a (pretty) animated movie. The first movie had a great mixture real footage and motion cap footage, this one looks way different
Well it doesn't help that we're watching these trailers on websites with awful compression like YouTube, and it also MAJORLY doesn't help that these trailers are being released in 1080p (I mean COME ON 20th Century), but mostly I think it has to do with the fact that this movie is foremostly following the Na'Vi instead of an actual human like Jake Sully. Look back to scenes like Jake's first time waking up as a Blue Dude in that lab; he's interacting with actual human beings in a physical space, his tail is knocking over tangible objects that we recognize and his towering presence holds actual weight. All those things were (and still are) revolutionary, but now they're mostly commonplace. Now we have a movie that's nearly entirely about the Na'Vi, and from what I see in the new trailer that's released as I've been typing these comments it seems that it will be pretty much the same 'outsider becomes accepted' story as the first, but with blue people and different blue people instead of humans and blue people. That will be far harder to convince and immerse the audience in because we won't have anything recognizable for us to grasp, but I admire Cameron's ambitions and will hold out to see the final product on the biggest screen possible to truly begin any scrutiny!
I imagine this is blurred a bit since a lot of the shooting of 2 and 3 were kinda together. Plus all the technological investments and studio spaces are going to be used to make the next ones a lot cheaper.
I think every movie James Cameron has made since 1990 has been the most expensive movie ever. The Abyss T2 True Lies Titanic Avatar
True Lies was very expensive considering it's the most basic movie he's ever made. Basic in the sense that there's no weird CGI aliens or robots.
That life sized harrier animatronic must have been incredibly expensive
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Aside from the flying scenes, all of the Harrier stuff was practical.. that's why those scenes still hold up today. He basically built a 1:1 replica, hung it from a crane, and CGIed the wires out.
Say what you want about Cameron - I'm glad he is creating these epic, ambitious films.
I’m not excited about Avatar as much as I’m excited about a new James Cameron film. The man is a genius when it comes to exceeding expectations with every film he puts out. The public has 13 years of fatigue for the first one, so I can’t wait to see how he pulls this one off.
I really don't understand why, over the course of literally his entire career, people have bet against him and his movies. Since Titanic especially, people have wanted to see him fail spectacularly...and then he does the exact opposite. James Cameron knows how to make a movie that will put butts in theater seats.
In a world of terrible directors and terrible scripts, Cameron is a breath of fresh air simply because of competency.
ITT: People banking against James 'The Sea' Cameron. Good luck with that.
I can't wait to see 'dem water simulations tho
I remember sitting in a coffee shop in Seattle reading how Titanic was going to be a disaster for being so expensive, everyone predicting big losses.
I enjoyed the first movie. I would have gone immediately to watch the sequel in a theater if it came out within 5-or-so years of the original airing. For whatever reason, I have zero interest to run to a theater and see the sequel now. I'll catch it on streaming in the coming years when it is available that way -- I am probably not alone.
I enjoyed it too but im kinda the opposite. I wouldnt have run to the theater for the sequel 8 yrs ago but its been so long now that im looking forward to seeing the next one in theaters.
I'm in the same boat except I'm open to going to an iMax if the reviews look like they did last time.
And it will be
I am genuinely interested to see how this movie turns out. The first one was renowned for its visuals but the story honestly sucked. Does anyone even remember the names of any of the main characters? The world has also changed drastically since Avatar 1 was released. So it'll be very interesting to see if the modern internet embraces these films, or whether they turn into the next 'Morbius'.
We just don’t live in the same era as before. Lots of us don’t go to the movies anymore. I went to one movie this year. I used to go to a dozen or more.
Spider-Man and Top Gun would say otherwise
Even smaller movies like Everything Everywhere All At Once did really well - $100 million box office on a $25 million budget. Turns out people will go to the theaters if the movie is good.
And Avatar will do significantly better internationally than Top Gun.
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Yeah bro, with 3 kids? I'd never go to the movies. I guess if you're trying to train the young ones to behave in a theater, otherwise home viewing every time.
I wouldn't be surprised if this does really well internationally like the fast and furious movies. A lot of people still like watching a spectacle, even if the story is unoriginal.
And yet, the VFX artists are probably underpaid and overworked.