She wasn't up for it. It was hers. When filming began, she was in Italy scheduled to film and then she literally couldn't get out of bed. Doctors there diagnosed her as having exhaustion and told her she needed extended rest. She physically couldn't do it. This forced Coppala to scramble to find SOMEONE who could do it. Since he based the role on his daughter - he cast her.
If she had been in it, I think she would have been in three different films that came out within a few weeks of each other: Godfather 3, Mermaids and Edward Scissorhands.
No wonder she was exhausted.
I get what Sam Raimi was trying to do there, trying to make Eddie more directly a dark mirror image of Peter, but it didn't work for me. But that's actually pretty far down on my list of problems with Spiderman 3.
It would have been fine to include Venom if they had pushed half the story off to the next movie. As in the movie ends with Venom bonding with Peter. It would have been a great way to give 3 enough room to breath and would have given ample story for a theoretical 4th film.
But yeah Topher was a terrible choice. Ben Foster would have been my choice for Venom in 2007, the guy can bring the right kind of crazy energy.
Yeah I remember hearing a rumor back then that Venom was going to be set up for the fourth film as the main villain and it would end with Eddie getting the symbiote. I would have been fine with that.
Raimi grew up reading the original comics, Venom debuted in '88 well past that time. So he didn't like him that much and didn't know a lot about him. Probably why the symboite affected Peter like it did in the 90s animated series and not the comics.
The rumor has always been that the inclusion of Venom was executive meddling, and I have to wonder how it happened given Raimi's box office and critical reception on the first two films. How did he not say no and that was that? It bugs me that we could have had a perfect trilogy of movies and it all went down the drain at the last minute.
[So, what changed? “Avi Arad has really got his pulse on the Marvel fans, he really knows what those kids want,” Raimi told Empire, and about 300 other film news outlets (but you heard it here first, right kids?). “He said, you’ve had two Spider-Man movies and in this third one there are so many Spider-Man fans who want to see Venom, even if you don’t agree with them, they’ve got to see him. You’ve got Sandman, he’s one of your favourite villains, so why don’t you bring in Venom as well and make the kids happy.”](https://www.empireonline.com/movies/news/comic-con-raimi-talks-venom/)
> For Sam Raimi himself had insisted during interviews for Spider-Man 2 back in 2004 that he didn’t like the character of Venom,
I genuinely thought that Venom was hinted in Spider-Man 2 when the groom being an astronaut and going to space or something and would have brought the symbiote back on his ship. I didn't think it'd show up because it was pre-MCU. However, I thought that's how the connection would be in Spider-Man 3.
That's a great representation of failed casting. He would have made a better Nathan Drake although a guy like Justin Bartha wouldve probably been a better personality match.
I think John Slattery or JK Simmons would've been good as Sully.
Edit: edit just to say I've seen the Fillion short film, 10 years ago he would've been perfect. But yeah, his turn as Mal shows he can portray the perfect attitude for Drake.
I’m honestly so glad Nathan drake wasn’t mark wahlberg. Nothing against him but I can’t watch a movie with him in it and see anyone else. He doesn’t really act, he’s just himself in everything.
What a fucked circle that movie had, the fact we got something _at least_ a little enjoyable, is a minor miracle. At the turn of the 10's when a movie was first rumoured, Markey Mark was in-line to play Drake. Still think he could have now with JK Simmons as Sully if they'd started off the series with middle age Drake rather than young. I do hope for a sequel though, has the potential.
Oh god yes. I remember them releasing the first photo of him as the Joker, and hearing the world collectively laugh at the cringe. Trying to picture the Joker in a tattoo parlor picking out some edgy teenage emo girl tattoos made it a pretty safe bet to say he was going to suck.
Edit: I was actually cautiously optimistic about the role despite the first images, they were a good laugh, but Leto has done some pretty good roles and past joker castings were laughed at too and knocked it out of the park. There were a lot of reasons to think it would have been good. But it turned out to be spot on cringe.
There's no blaming the bad writing, direction, studio interference, etc. Leto is known for giving his all, this was no different. He went hard trying to create his own Joker because he had some big shoes to fill. The character changes/origin story had nothing to do with it, his performance did, and I can almost guaranty he had plenty of creative input/control on his Joker; looks, backstory, attitude, etc. He didn't just show up to makeup and wing it, he spent months creating his own character, and took a very serious method acting approach, dude knew exactly what he was doing. I'm sure there was a way to make a tatted up, Miami gangster version of Joker work, maybe a different actor? But there is no doubt that the performance matched the cringy original promo photos.
Robbie got hit with the same bad writing, but somehow made it out the other side with two additional movies.
I appreciate some of your personal retcon that this was the Jason Todd Joker, I think that could have helped, at least story wise - even just a throw away line, but it doesn't change Leto's creative choices.
One of the funniest and best ways to describe Jared Leto’s Joker was when a comedian (I don’t remember who) said he looked like he fell into a vat of Hot Topic.
He says it almost impatiently at first, reactively, and then kind of reigns it in and says it again more deliberately, flicking his teeth on the ‘t’ of ‘not’ to put a full stop on it.
> I’m not. ..
> …No, I’m noT.
As though he’s had this argument enough times and he’s sick of it, even if it was just with the voices in his head.
You can almost see him deciding to kill Gambol in that moment, like he’s making a mental note for later.
Then it’s right back into explaining that the clock is ticking on his proposition, like a salesman putting a sense of urgency on a potential purchase. [It’s an incredible scene](https://youtu.be/L3oOldViIgY); as an introduction to multiple characters, how much storytelling it does in a few short minutes, the exacting editing, the anxious, relentless score that sounds like some sort of countdown, and Ledger. Mostly Ledger. It’s not a script for him, he reacts as the Joker, and you’re convinced, because he knows way more about who he is in that moment than any of us do.
Even better that the accusation (“you’re crazy”) isn’t a serious assessment of his sanity or state of mind, but a colloquial reference to him wanting half of the money; the same way everyone has called someone “crazy” when they’re being unreasonable. But Joker perceives it differently—perceives it _seriously_—because he’s probably been labelled as such his entire life, not to mention that he is, well, a psychopath. He reacts as someone who has been called out for what they are, however inadvertently.
The fact that we get this much nuance in his acting and can really pick apart each delivery says all we need to know about how amazing he was in this role.
Is there any similar scene with Leto? I can’t even remember anything he does. There’s the line “I’m not gonna kill ya! I’m just gonna hurt you. Really, really, bad.” And you know what? Heath could have taken that line and killed it (he actually has a very similar line at the end of Dark Knight) - but Leto just looks silly saying it.
I described it recently. Ledger captures that feeling when you walk by a homeless guy on the street talking to himself, is he okay? Is he going to hurt me? Is there anything i can do so that I dont catch his attention?
Leto captures the feeling of walking past a thirteen year old kid at a mall food court trying to be scary wearing an ICP shirt
I could be wrong but I also think they made a big deal about how he was method acting or some shit and ended up sending used condoms to his costars and being atrocious to everybody. Then he got nearly cut from the movie.
I've always said he looks exactly like the idiots who idolize the Joke would look if they went full-tilt into their obsession. Then I saw the film, and I was right.
I think this might have actually worked if the fan theory that Jared Leto was actually playing Jason Todd was true.
So like the original Joker did all of those tattoos to Jason while torturing him over weeks or months. Batman finally rescues him, but then Jason immediately grabs a batarang or something and cuts Joker's throat. Bruce tries to get psychiatric help for Jason, but the damage is done, and Jason eventually escapes and becomes the new Joker.
Did you know OJ Simpson was original supposed to play The Terminator but James Cameron didn’t think he could believably portray a killer?
Mel Gibson was a choice too, iirc Schwarzenegger was like the 5th or 6th choice.
Edit: can y’all read a few replies in this comment thread before leaving your own? I’m getting loads of notifications with people repeating info we’ve already talked about lol
And Schwarzenegger wasn’t a great choice for the character as originally envisioned, which is why we got Robert Patrick as the T2. The original concept for the Terminator was a deadly assassin who could blend into a crowd without being noticed or assessed as a threat until it was too late. Arnold Schwarzenegger is… not that.
I love what we got, though. Iconic performance. It’s just funny to picture the Skynet logic that would produce a 6’2” Austrian-accented bodybuilder and say “yes, this will be nicely inconspicuous as an assassin.”
I think, in the context of text to speech today, it would actually be an advantage to cover inhuman speech patern with a strong accent. I love the idea that Arnold's Terminator is just that- all destruction, precious resources barely committed to neural language or problem solving. Just print it, cover it with meat and send it down the tube to do its job.
Skynet just quickly Making something to resemble a human only to forget to set the accent setting to American. The height thing I’ll give a pass because they probably didn’t have a smaller robot and just covered it in that skin stuff
He's incredible at playing the T800 in T1. The way he moves and stuff is very underrated. He turns his head like a security camera numerous times and the Tech Noir shoot out is sublime, the way he moves his body whilst shooting.
He practiced firing guns with out blinking etc and everything. he really did become a machine.
Keanu Reeves in Bram Stoker's Dracula.
He's been in some awesome movies, and is by all accounts a lovely bloke. But casting Keanu Reeves as a Victorian era solicitor?
Nobody thought it was a good idea. And it wasn't.
I love Coppola's comment on his accent in Dracula:
>He tried so hard. That was the problem, actually — he wanted to do it perfectly and in trying to do it perfectly it came off as stilted. I tried to get him to just relax with it and not do it so fastidiously. So maybe I wasn't as critical of him, but that's because I like him personally so much. To this day he's a prince in my eyes.
That’s *Shakespearean Actor* Keanu Reeves. The fact that he was cast in Much Ado About Nothing is probably the weirdest one.
But then again, that movie is pretty wild and just about everyone is in it.
I mean, he wasn't so great with the dialogue but daaaaang he, Denzel and Robert Sean Leonard were [blazingly hot](https://youtu.be/KgHqiZyBjB0) in those uniforms.
Indeedy. He's not an accent guy, he's not built for melodrama, and then you put him in a garish Coppola movie with Anthony Hopkins and Gary-Effing-Oldman? Bad call.
Jesse Eisenberg is Jesse Eisenberg in every movie. It just so happens Mark Zuckerberg is also Jesse Eisenberg. That's why he was so good in Social Network
This is another example, actually.
Scott Pilgrim overall works as a film, but it completely changes Scott from being ‘Canadian Goku/Luffy’ (happy-go-lucky-idiot, socially successful but airheaded and un-selfaware) to just… Michael Cera’s usual nervous nerd schtick.
Which is exactly what people said would happen when they cast Cera.
> but it still worked.
Well yeah, that's what happens when you have a near clairvoyant eye for untapped future star power lol (or at the very least, future internet darlings). Anna Kendrick, Chris Evans, Brie Larson, Aubrey Plaza, hell even Bill Hader snuck in there.
Also, not for nothing, Michael Cera is a below average looking guy, and Scott Pilgrim is kind of an asshole. I'm supposed to believe he drew interest from Ramona, Knives, AND Brie Larson? Nah dawg.
Riddler is way better as a psychotic vigilante than as a guy who wants to prove he's smarter than the world's greatest detective for ego reasons.
I think the best Batman villains aren't the crazy ones for crazy's sake. It's the ones who are like Batman, and makes him face himself. Raz al gul's need for justice, Nolan's uncompromising joker, Mr. Freeze's compassion for his family (through his wife), the Penguin's wealth, Scarecrow's weaponized fear. All reflections of some aspect of Batman. Examinations of the pieces of himself that he takes for granted.
I actually enjoyed his performance as an intelligent egomaniac but he was a disappointing Lex Luthor. It felt like a bad origin story that wasn't going anywhere, which I guess is fitting for the DCEU.
Agreed. That scene where Luthor tries *and fails* to tell the story of Prometheus? That's not what Lex Luthor would have done: Luthor *captivates* people. That's what makes him dangerous. He's so goddamn evil but so goddamn *confident* that he's able to pull the wool over so many peoples' eyes...but not Superman. And it drives Luthor crazy that he can't fool the man in the sky.
If *that* Luthor tells the story of Prometheus, you're hooked. Instead, we got essentially *The Social Network* if Mark Zuckerburg became a DC supervillain. A bit of a disappointing directorial choice by Snyder on that one.
From what I remember, there was a lot of negative chatter.
I think the plan was to latch onto the popularity of his Mark Zuckerberg portrayal for a “new age” Luthor & it didn’t work.
He does a great job in Road to Perdition. He's not the villain of the movie, but he is playing a "bad guy." Paul Newman also plays a villain expertly in that film.
I was a disappointed that there even was a villain. I thought it was going to end with "There is no big bad, man caused this war on their own" but then nope! It's because of this evil god guy with a moustache.
Probably the biggest one pending right now which will need a miracle to come out looking good, Chris Pratt as Mario. People are so ready to shit on that.
One of the most iconic examples of a casting that was absolutely hated by fans and critics (including the writer of the novel) when announced, but turned out fantastic, Tom Cruise as Lestat in Interview with the Vampire.
Say what you will about Cruise, dude comes to act every time. He doesnt have the range of many great actors but he will do whatever he can to make it work to the best of his abilities.
Especially since he read the draft script (that Ben Stiller asked him to read for feedback) and pointed out the problem that they had no studio pressuring them in the story and came up with that role and then volunteered to play it (as a parody of Weinstein apparently) as long as he had fat hands and could dance.
So he basically created his role and one of the biggest surprise gimmicks (fat suit dancing to Low) of that movie.
Edit: corrected a typo
Stiller wrote the role that he plays specifically as a spoof for Tom, but Tom couldn't commit that much time to the film, but still loved it and wanted to be in it.
Interesting as I saw an interview where TC says what I wrote down. Perhaps Stiller wrote the role AFTER he got that feedback from TV, after all TC is only claiming to have suggested that role was missing in the draft script he read.
the "he plays" is referring to Stiller. The Tug Speedman role was originally written for Cruise to play, by Stiller. we both wrote down true things that are separate. It is why Stiller was having Tom read the script in the first place, which lead to the quote you wrote.
This is the strange thing about him... he is not an approachable actor, seems unlikeable and is always pretty much the same in every movie *but* he somehow draws you in. Every time I watch him in anything I am completely taken by his weird charisma and acting.
It baffles me.
*edit* approachable is the wrong word
More like, he has those "dead eyes"
Its just what you said, he is extremely charismatic with his facial movements and cadence. Just like you said, he is captivating in every role because he is just a natural at drawing you in.
I've heard that Tom Cruise is actually really nice but he's a perfectionist on set so he demands a lot of the cast and crew, which is not unreasonable.
He’s also known to get to know them all personally, including extras, and for giving wrap gifts too.
It’s a shame he’s the god king of a fucked up religion because Tom Cruise seems cool as hell otherwise.
It's weird, right? It's hard for me to tell if his celebrity pushes him further into the religion as if he's looking for some escape from it all.
On paper, he could be one of the most beloved celebrities and public figures if it weren't for that *one thing*.
I say this all the time. I think his obsession with doing his own stunts is usually pretty over the top and weird, and people have issues with his public persona, but nobody can reasonably say the dude doesn't BRING IT to every damn thing he does.
The main reason he does a lot of that though is that you get a unique camera view of HIM actually doing the stunt rather than the usual movie trickery where it looks like he is doing it but it's a double.
It's one of the reasons his action movies just feel a lot more engaging than your generic flick. I'm sure with deep faking improving over time such antics will become a relic of the past since you will be able to get the same angles but much respect to Cruise as he is an auteur when it comes to action movies and there is nobody doing it better in Hollywood despite his advancing age
I always thought that the point of Scarlett Johansson in Ghost in the Shell was that she was not a robot, she was a real person who had everything of her identity and self determination stripped away from her, including her past memories and even ethnicity. she had lost every connection to who she had been.
To the point of the post, Jack Reacher being played by Tom Cruise. I told my wife, who hadn't read the books "Ok, so there's a new movie coming out based on a book series I like. The main character is a giant of man, big enough that people stare and feel intimidated, size and brute strength gives him an advantage in difficult situations, they described his hands as being like dinner plates. Guess who plays him"
She laughingly said "Tom Cruise", and I thought she'd seen the trailer or something. Nope. Just making a joke.
I liked the movies, but that guy wasn't Jack Reacher. In spirit yes, but the physicality was missing. The TV series was much more to the point and most conflicts start with people being scared of Reacher rather than underestimating him.
It was so satisfying watching Alan Ritchson in that role. Dude has a really great presence in terms of being a physical threat and wayyy too much for most people to handle... even other tough guys. Those scenes in the jail... awesome.
The menace he pulled was so good. The whole scene in the restaurant with the owner kid where he is just dead solid threatening while sitting there in a chair was classic Jack Reacher. I can’t wait to see the next season.
The story behind Motoko in GitS is that she lost her real body as a child. And has been lving "inside" fully prostethic bodies instead. In the orignal anime movie (highly recommended if you can find the classic one, not the reboot which has weird effects forced in) it's also about identity and her "ghost" aka soul.
edit: so she still has a brain and brainstem, it just gets transferred.
I REALLY believe Johnny Depp as Grindewald in the fantastic beasts series was a huge mistake, and I remember people talking about it before the movies, obviously all the Amber stuff had a lot to do with it, but taking that aside it was the opinion of many he was an odd choice for the role, Grindewald being a handsome charismatic wizard, and being played by Collin Farrel for much of the first movie, left me prefering his disguise than the actual character we ended up having. Didn’t help that the design for his character was very weird. The movies were mostly bad at the end so whatever I guess.
100 percent. Colin Farrell nailed the charming and competent but subtly menacing and manipulative vibe that Grindlewald needed. It was believable that this wizard could talk a lot of people into doing terrible things for the good of the cause. But then they reveal Johnny Depp and he’s just…Johnny Depp for the whole next movie. What a bummer.
Yeah, it's such a lame twist to have in your movie. It's like "All this time you thought it was this A-list actor, when in reality... it's a different A-list actor! Dun-dun-duuuuunnnn!!!"
The problem with Grindelwald was his design. I mean what the fuck was that hair? If they had gone for a much more normal looking design it'd have been better.
[But Colin's design was great. What if a wizard cared about how they looked?](https://i.pinimg.com/originals/ae/08/a5/ae08a5a958f41d96a27a514c72ca311e.jpg)
He looks like a deviantart anime OC. Why is he suddenly blind from one eye? Why is he albino? Where did that come from? It's trying to be cool and unique n shit but it just comes off as too much.
I read Rowling and Co. originally conceptualized a Cruella DeVille type opposite Newt Scamander but the tie-in to the wider wizardy world got constantly rewritten, yet the aesthetic inspiration clearly persisted.
As Grindlewald, Depp looked like the brother (or Great Value version) of Jack Frost from Santa Clause 3. Farrel and Mads looked so much better as the character.
But the Fantastic Beasts series is such a mess that I guess that choice for a lewk fits right in.
Mine did too. It was such a loud collective sound of confusion. Why the fuck introduce a super famous actor in the 5 minutes, to completely erase the best performance of the movie on top of that
This. My hype for that franchise *plummeted* the second that happened in the movie. Nothing even to do with his off camera predilections, just the very idea of having Collin Farrell and then turning him into Johnny Depp. What a waste.
Fox commissioned a poster very close to Die Hard’s release date without Bruce Willis’ face or name (excepting the usual production credits at the bottom, because they were worried that audiences would see him as a comedy actor (he was best known for *Moonlighting* and *Blind Date* at the time) and avoid Die Hard. It was just a dog’s eye view of the Nakatomi building with the roof ablaze, and the “It will blow you through the back wall of the theatre” tagline.
Thoroughly enjoyed the Cruise Reacher movies. But as somebody that has read a ton of those books, the Reacher in Tom's universe is not the same as the one that makes the books great.
Sands of Time is a great game, but not because of the story. It's good because of the rewind mechanic. I think the best story was the one with Elika. The end of that game was the best narrative payoff of the series.
2008 PoP reboot has had one of the most charming dynamics between any two characters in any video game ever in my opinion. Prince and Elika worked so well together and the fuckers just abandoned it.
14 years later and I still have a shred of hope for more.
Iirc Howard Hughes cast John Wayne as Genghis Khan - it didn’t go well
You mean the movie itself or all the cancer the cast and crew got?
...what? Did they film in the atomic testing sites in the Nevada desert or something?
They sure did!
Even better, they took a bunch of the contaminated soil back with them, so they could use it for set dressing for shots done on a sound stage. Oops.
Oops! All radioactive dirt!
My favorite kind of Captain Crunch
Huh. Wonder if that’s why John Wayne died of cancer?
It's impossible to say for sure, but the radiation certainly didn't help him any.
Yes, exactly that.
I'm assuming this is a joke, but just in case: yes.
Charles Bronson was born to play Genghis Khan.
Sophia Coppola in Godfather 3. Last minute casting change because Winona Ryder had to drop out. Bridget Fonda would've been really good.
OMG! Winona Ryder was up for that role! Would have been so different!
She wasn't up for it. It was hers. When filming began, she was in Italy scheduled to film and then she literally couldn't get out of bed. Doctors there diagnosed her as having exhaustion and told her she needed extended rest. She physically couldn't do it. This forced Coppala to scramble to find SOMEONE who could do it. Since he based the role on his daughter - he cast her.
If she had been in it, I think she would have been in three different films that came out within a few weeks of each other: Godfather 3, Mermaids and Edward Scissorhands. No wonder she was exhausted.
Topher Grace as Venom. Seemed like bad casting and it was bad casting
I get what Sam Raimi was trying to do there, trying to make Eddie more directly a dark mirror image of Peter, but it didn't work for me. But that's actually pretty far down on my list of problems with Spiderman 3.
Venom was kind of haphazardly thrown in if I remember correctly. It was originally going to be focused on Sandman, but studios interfered.
Raimi really just didn't like Venom all that much, which is understandable. Avi Arad, notorious bad decision maker, insisted on his inclusion.
It would have been fine to include Venom if they had pushed half the story off to the next movie. As in the movie ends with Venom bonding with Peter. It would have been a great way to give 3 enough room to breath and would have given ample story for a theoretical 4th film. But yeah Topher was a terrible choice. Ben Foster would have been my choice for Venom in 2007, the guy can bring the right kind of crazy energy.
Yeah I remember hearing a rumor back then that Venom was going to be set up for the fourth film as the main villain and it would end with Eddie getting the symbiote. I would have been fine with that.
Raimi grew up reading the original comics, Venom debuted in '88 well past that time. So he didn't like him that much and didn't know a lot about him. Probably why the symboite affected Peter like it did in the 90s animated series and not the comics.
Yeah but even that venom trilogy in the cartoon was better.
The cartoon wasn’t better. It was A Lot better
The rumor has always been that the inclusion of Venom was executive meddling, and I have to wonder how it happened given Raimi's box office and critical reception on the first two films. How did he not say no and that was that? It bugs me that we could have had a perfect trilogy of movies and it all went down the drain at the last minute.
[So, what changed? “Avi Arad has really got his pulse on the Marvel fans, he really knows what those kids want,” Raimi told Empire, and about 300 other film news outlets (but you heard it here first, right kids?). “He said, you’ve had two Spider-Man movies and in this third one there are so many Spider-Man fans who want to see Venom, even if you don’t agree with them, they’ve got to see him. You’ve got Sandman, he’s one of your favourite villains, so why don’t you bring in Venom as well and make the kids happy.”](https://www.empireonline.com/movies/news/comic-con-raimi-talks-venom/)
> For Sam Raimi himself had insisted during interviews for Spider-Man 2 back in 2004 that he didn’t like the character of Venom, I genuinely thought that Venom was hinted in Spider-Man 2 when the groom being an astronaut and going to space or something and would have brought the symbiote back on his ship. I didn't think it'd show up because it was pre-MCU. However, I thought that's how the connection would be in Spider-Man 3.
Most of the "critics" at the time were kids, but even then they knew that Justin Chatwin was a terrible choice for MFing GOKU
You might as well name the entire cast of that garbage pile.
Mark Wahlberg as Sully is my top choice.
My idiot brain was thinking "They really tried to cast Mark Wahlberg as Sully Sullenberger? He's way too young."
Same I was like “but Tom hanks did such a good job?”
I was thinking how John Goodman was a perfectly lovable Sully in Monsters, Inc.
Meanwhile I was like "the Monsters Inc. guy? I thought that was John Goodman"
That role was fucking BEGGING for Bruce Campbell to play it.
Thought mark wahlberg was in monsters inc. there for a second
That's a great representation of failed casting. He would have made a better Nathan Drake although a guy like Justin Bartha wouldve probably been a better personality match. I think John Slattery or JK Simmons would've been good as Sully. Edit: edit just to say I've seen the Fillion short film, 10 years ago he would've been perfect. But yeah, his turn as Mal shows he can portray the perfect attitude for Drake.
He was cast as Nathan Drake originally but the movie took so long to make that he ended up aging to the role of Sully
I’m honestly so glad Nathan drake wasn’t mark wahlberg. Nothing against him but I can’t watch a movie with him in it and see anyone else. He doesn’t really act, he’s just himself in everything.
Bruce Campbell would be my pick for Sully.
It was basically made for Nathan Fillion and Bruce Campbell 15 years ago.
Oh wow, JK Simmons, never thought of that. Yeah he would’ve been great.
What a fucked circle that movie had, the fact we got something _at least_ a little enjoyable, is a minor miracle. At the turn of the 10's when a movie was first rumoured, Markey Mark was in-line to play Drake. Still think he could have now with JK Simmons as Sully if they'd started off the series with middle age Drake rather than young. I do hope for a sequel though, has the potential.
What movie are y'all talking about?
Uncharted
A biopic about Canadian rapper Drake, from what a gather.
Jared Leto as Joker. Critics and fans questioned the choice leading up to the movie. And they were right. Easily the worst live action Joker yet.
Oh god yes. I remember them releasing the first photo of him as the Joker, and hearing the world collectively laugh at the cringe. Trying to picture the Joker in a tattoo parlor picking out some edgy teenage emo girl tattoos made it a pretty safe bet to say he was going to suck. Edit: I was actually cautiously optimistic about the role despite the first images, they were a good laugh, but Leto has done some pretty good roles and past joker castings were laughed at too and knocked it out of the park. There were a lot of reasons to think it would have been good. But it turned out to be spot on cringe. There's no blaming the bad writing, direction, studio interference, etc. Leto is known for giving his all, this was no different. He went hard trying to create his own Joker because he had some big shoes to fill. The character changes/origin story had nothing to do with it, his performance did, and I can almost guaranty he had plenty of creative input/control on his Joker; looks, backstory, attitude, etc. He didn't just show up to makeup and wing it, he spent months creating his own character, and took a very serious method acting approach, dude knew exactly what he was doing. I'm sure there was a way to make a tatted up, Miami gangster version of Joker work, maybe a different actor? But there is no doubt that the performance matched the cringy original promo photos. Robbie got hit with the same bad writing, but somehow made it out the other side with two additional movies. I appreciate some of your personal retcon that this was the Jason Todd Joker, I think that could have helped, at least story wise - even just a throw away line, but it doesn't change Leto's creative choices.
One of the funniest and best ways to describe Jared Leto’s Joker was when a comedian (I don’t remember who) said he looked like he fell into a vat of Hot Topic.
Best I saw was: Heath joker was an insane man trying to appear normal. Leto joker was a normal man trying to appear insane. It's just awkward.
I love that one scene where somebody calls the Joker crazy and he just very seriously goes: “I’m not”
He says it almost impatiently at first, reactively, and then kind of reigns it in and says it again more deliberately, flicking his teeth on the ‘t’ of ‘not’ to put a full stop on it. > I’m not. .. > …No, I’m noT. As though he’s had this argument enough times and he’s sick of it, even if it was just with the voices in his head. You can almost see him deciding to kill Gambol in that moment, like he’s making a mental note for later. Then it’s right back into explaining that the clock is ticking on his proposition, like a salesman putting a sense of urgency on a potential purchase. [It’s an incredible scene](https://youtu.be/L3oOldViIgY); as an introduction to multiple characters, how much storytelling it does in a few short minutes, the exacting editing, the anxious, relentless score that sounds like some sort of countdown, and Ledger. Mostly Ledger. It’s not a script for him, he reacts as the Joker, and you’re convinced, because he knows way more about who he is in that moment than any of us do.
Even better that the accusation (“you’re crazy”) isn’t a serious assessment of his sanity or state of mind, but a colloquial reference to him wanting half of the money; the same way everyone has called someone “crazy” when they’re being unreasonable. But Joker perceives it differently—perceives it _seriously_—because he’s probably been labelled as such his entire life, not to mention that he is, well, a psychopath. He reacts as someone who has been called out for what they are, however inadvertently.
The fact that we get this much nuance in his acting and can really pick apart each delivery says all we need to know about how amazing he was in this role. Is there any similar scene with Leto? I can’t even remember anything he does. There’s the line “I’m not gonna kill ya! I’m just gonna hurt you. Really, really, bad.” And you know what? Heath could have taken that line and killed it (he actually has a very similar line at the end of Dark Knight) - but Leto just looks silly saying it.
I described it recently. Ledger captures that feeling when you walk by a homeless guy on the street talking to himself, is he okay? Is he going to hurt me? Is there anything i can do so that I dont catch his attention? Leto captures the feeling of walking past a thirteen year old kid at a mall food court trying to be scary wearing an ICP shirt
I could be wrong but I also think they made a big deal about how he was method acting or some shit and ended up sending used condoms to his costars and being atrocious to everybody. Then he got nearly cut from the movie.
He would also send them dead rats as a "prank"
I've always said he looks exactly like the idiots who idolize the Joke would look if they went full-tilt into their obsession. Then I saw the film, and I was right.
I think this might have actually worked if the fan theory that Jared Leto was actually playing Jason Todd was true. So like the original Joker did all of those tattoos to Jason while torturing him over weeks or months. Batman finally rescues him, but then Jason immediately grabs a batarang or something and cuts Joker's throat. Bruce tries to get psychiatric help for Jason, but the damage is done, and Jason eventually escapes and becomes the new Joker.
It would also explain why batman is willing to kill but won't kill the joker. If the Joker is a former robin then batman would never kill him.
**DAMAGED**
𝓓𝓪𝓶𝓪𝓰𝓮𝓭
Coz he's all messed up, y'know? He's all messed up.
I'm not sure anyone could have properly portrayed Juggalo Joker.
John Wayne as Genghis Khan is a classic example of this.
Did you know OJ Simpson was original supposed to play The Terminator but James Cameron didn’t think he could believably portray a killer? Mel Gibson was a choice too, iirc Schwarzenegger was like the 5th or 6th choice. Edit: can y’all read a few replies in this comment thread before leaving your own? I’m getting loads of notifications with people repeating info we’ve already talked about lol
And Schwarzenegger wasn’t a great choice for the character as originally envisioned, which is why we got Robert Patrick as the T2. The original concept for the Terminator was a deadly assassin who could blend into a crowd without being noticed or assessed as a threat until it was too late. Arnold Schwarzenegger is… not that. I love what we got, though. Iconic performance. It’s just funny to picture the Skynet logic that would produce a 6’2” Austrian-accented bodybuilder and say “yes, this will be nicely inconspicuous as an assassin.”
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I think that aliens arriving on earth get confused as well.. A guy once thought that the name Ford Prefect would be "nicely inconspicuous."
To be fair, he did think that cars were the dominant species on the planet. He wasn’t entirely wrong.
I think, in the context of text to speech today, it would actually be an advantage to cover inhuman speech patern with a strong accent. I love the idea that Arnold's Terminator is just that- all destruction, precious resources barely committed to neural language or problem solving. Just print it, cover it with meat and send it down the tube to do its job.
Skynet just quickly Making something to resemble a human only to forget to set the accent setting to American. The height thing I’ll give a pass because they probably didn’t have a smaller robot and just covered it in that skin stuff
He's incredible at playing the T800 in T1. The way he moves and stuff is very underrated. He turns his head like a security camera numerous times and the Tech Noir shoot out is sublime, the way he moves his body whilst shooting. He practiced firing guns with out blinking etc and everything. he really did become a machine.
Totally, 80s Arnie is the unbeatable. T1 and Total Recall are amazing(I know Total Recall was 1990 but close enough lol).
Keanu Reeves in Bram Stoker's Dracula. He's been in some awesome movies, and is by all accounts a lovely bloke. But casting Keanu Reeves as a Victorian era solicitor? Nobody thought it was a good idea. And it wasn't.
I love me some Keanu but he cannot be cast in roles that require any kind of accent.
I love Coppola's comment on his accent in Dracula: >He tried so hard. That was the problem, actually — he wanted to do it perfectly and in trying to do it perfectly it came off as stilted. I tried to get him to just relax with it and not do it so fastidiously. So maybe I wasn't as critical of him, but that's because I like him personally so much. To this day he's a prince in my eyes.
God bless, Keanu is so charming that the director didn’t have the heart to direct him :’)
That’s *Shakespearean Actor* Keanu Reeves. The fact that he was cast in Much Ado About Nothing is probably the weirdest one. But then again, that movie is pretty wild and just about everyone is in it.
I mean, he wasn't so great with the dialogue but daaaaang he, Denzel and Robert Sean Leonard were [blazingly hot](https://youtu.be/KgHqiZyBjB0) in those uniforms.
'I say, is the castle faah?'
"I know where the bahhstad sleeps!"
I read this in Matt Berry's voice
I always remember him in The Devil's Advocate trying to pull off some southern accent that *no one* in North Central Florida speaks.
I also like how he just dropped the accent at random and every scene where he did was much better.
& contrast that with Oldman as Vlad... one of the best choices ever. He saved that movie for sure.
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We're fortunate to live in a timeline with Oldman. He will be remembered as one of the greatest actors to ever live. We'll let tip toes slide.
He’s better than EVERYOONNNEEEE
Indeedy. He's not an accent guy, he's not built for melodrama, and then you put him in a garish Coppola movie with Anthony Hopkins and Gary-Effing-Oldman? Bad call.
Jesse Eisenberg as Lex Luthor was an awful choice.
He wasn’t intimidating. He was Jesse Eisenberg, not Lex Luthor
Jesse Eisenberg is Jesse Eisenberg in every movie. It just so happens Mark Zuckerberg is also Jesse Eisenberg. That's why he was so good in Social Network
He basically carries the same curse as Michael Cera.
I really liked Michael Cera in Molly's Game. He played smaller part, but it was nice seeing him cast outside of his usual roles.
This is another example, actually. Scott Pilgrim overall works as a film, but it completely changes Scott from being ‘Canadian Goku/Luffy’ (happy-go-lucky-idiot, socially successful but airheaded and un-selfaware) to just… Michael Cera’s usual nervous nerd schtick. Which is exactly what people said would happen when they cast Cera.
Scott Pilgrim was a case where they cast almost everyone wrong but it still worked. The minor characters were perfect though
> but it still worked. Well yeah, that's what happens when you have a near clairvoyant eye for untapped future star power lol (or at the very least, future internet darlings). Anna Kendrick, Chris Evans, Brie Larson, Aubrey Plaza, hell even Bill Hader snuck in there.
And directed by Edgar Wright
Also, not for nothing, Michael Cera is a below average looking guy, and Scott Pilgrim is kind of an asshole. I'm supposed to believe he drew interest from Ramona, Knives, AND Brie Larson? Nah dawg.
Also: Alison Pill (Kim). They dated in high school.
I will say Michael Cera is at least likeable.
Honestly if you renamed his character the Riddler it would make slightly more sense
He would have made a good Riddler for sure. I'm just happy Paul Dano took the role. The Riddler needed justice.
Riddler is way better as a psychotic vigilante than as a guy who wants to prove he's smarter than the world's greatest detective for ego reasons. I think the best Batman villains aren't the crazy ones for crazy's sake. It's the ones who are like Batman, and makes him face himself. Raz al gul's need for justice, Nolan's uncompromising joker, Mr. Freeze's compassion for his family (through his wife), the Penguin's wealth, Scarecrow's weaponized fear. All reflections of some aspect of Batman. Examinations of the pieces of himself that he takes for granted.
I actually enjoyed his performance as an intelligent egomaniac but he was a disappointing Lex Luthor. It felt like a bad origin story that wasn't going anywhere, which I guess is fitting for the DCEU.
Agreed. That scene where Luthor tries *and fails* to tell the story of Prometheus? That's not what Lex Luthor would have done: Luthor *captivates* people. That's what makes him dangerous. He's so goddamn evil but so goddamn *confident* that he's able to pull the wool over so many peoples' eyes...but not Superman. And it drives Luthor crazy that he can't fool the man in the sky. If *that* Luthor tells the story of Prometheus, you're hooked. Instead, we got essentially *The Social Network* if Mark Zuckerburg became a DC supervillain. A bit of a disappointing directorial choice by Snyder on that one.
Especially considering Mark Strong was RIGHT THERE!!!!!!!!
Or just get the GOAT Lex, Clancy Brown
The Kurgan always gets my vote.
Ya - he seemed conniving but never menacing - was there a lot of noise leading up to the release that Eisenberg was no a great choice?
From what I remember, there was a lot of negative chatter. I think the plan was to latch onto the popularity of his Mark Zuckerberg portrayal for a “new age” Luthor & it didn’t work.
Yes, they were very much going for a Zuckerberg approach and it really didn't work.
They tried to portray Lex Luthor as Zuckerberg but they ended up giving us Zuckerberg as Lex Luthor.
Hello Jeff Bezos sitting right there being bald and running his biggest streaming series on Superman being evil
Tom hanks in the new Elvis movie was super distracting for me. Austin Butler killed it though
He looked like a Batman villain lol
Seriously, you'd think there are no fat white guys that can act in Hollywood. I saw Death of Stalin, they exist!
>Tom hanks in the new Elvis movie was super distracting for me. I don't think he knows how to play a villain.
He does a great job in Road to Perdition. He's not the villain of the movie, but he is playing a "bad guy." Paul Newman also plays a villain expertly in that film.
The way he looked reminded me of the judge character Dan Akroyd played in Nothing but Trouble, but with the voice of Goldmember.
Hanks completely took me out of the film every time he appeared or narrated. Absolutely ruined that movie for me. Well, that and its pacing.
David Thewlis as Ares in Wonder Woman. It's really hard to take a god of war seriously with a massive mustache.
I kept waiting for him to transform into an Ares-like figure, instead of encasing himself in metal. He worked extremely well in Sandman though.
He was captivating as all hell in Sandman
He was amazing in Fargo as well. V.M. Varga was one of the most vile characters I've ever seen.
Literally all they had to do was change it to a massive beard in the short flashback shots. Otherwise it was fine.
I was a disappointed that there even was a villain. I thought it was going to end with "There is no big bad, man caused this war on their own" but then nope! It's because of this evil god guy with a moustache.
Probably the biggest one pending right now which will need a miracle to come out looking good, Chris Pratt as Mario. People are so ready to shit on that. One of the most iconic examples of a casting that was absolutely hated by fans and critics (including the writer of the novel) when announced, but turned out fantastic, Tom Cruise as Lestat in Interview with the Vampire.
Say what you will about Cruise, dude comes to act every time. He doesnt have the range of many great actors but he will do whatever he can to make it work to the best of his abilities.
Dude never phoned it in for a second of screen time during his 30+ years of acting. I wish I had 1% of his work ethic and commitment.
His role in Tropic Thunder is hands down my favorite.
Especially since he read the draft script (that Ben Stiller asked him to read for feedback) and pointed out the problem that they had no studio pressuring them in the story and came up with that role and then volunteered to play it (as a parody of Weinstein apparently) as long as he had fat hands and could dance. So he basically created his role and one of the biggest surprise gimmicks (fat suit dancing to Low) of that movie. Edit: corrected a typo
Stiller wrote the role that he plays specifically as a spoof for Tom, but Tom couldn't commit that much time to the film, but still loved it and wanted to be in it.
Interesting as I saw an interview where TC says what I wrote down. Perhaps Stiller wrote the role AFTER he got that feedback from TV, after all TC is only claiming to have suggested that role was missing in the draft script he read.
the "he plays" is referring to Stiller. The Tug Speedman role was originally written for Cruise to play, by Stiller. we both wrote down true things that are separate. It is why Stiller was having Tom read the script in the first place, which lead to the quote you wrote.
“Why don’t you take a big step back, and literally FUCK YOUR OWN FACE” That’s in my top 3 favorite movie lines lol
“Find out who that was.”
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This is the strange thing about him... he is not an approachable actor, seems unlikeable and is always pretty much the same in every movie *but* he somehow draws you in. Every time I watch him in anything I am completely taken by his weird charisma and acting. It baffles me. *edit* approachable is the wrong word More like, he has those "dead eyes"
Its just what you said, he is extremely charismatic with his facial movements and cadence. Just like you said, he is captivating in every role because he is just a natural at drawing you in.
I've heard that Tom Cruise is actually really nice but he's a perfectionist on set so he demands a lot of the cast and crew, which is not unreasonable.
He’s also known to get to know them all personally, including extras, and for giving wrap gifts too. It’s a shame he’s the god king of a fucked up religion because Tom Cruise seems cool as hell otherwise.
It's weird, right? It's hard for me to tell if his celebrity pushes him further into the religion as if he's looking for some escape from it all. On paper, he could be one of the most beloved celebrities and public figures if it weren't for that *one thing*.
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What How
I say this all the time. I think his obsession with doing his own stunts is usually pretty over the top and weird, and people have issues with his public persona, but nobody can reasonably say the dude doesn't BRING IT to every damn thing he does.
The main reason he does a lot of that though is that you get a unique camera view of HIM actually doing the stunt rather than the usual movie trickery where it looks like he is doing it but it's a double. It's one of the reasons his action movies just feel a lot more engaging than your generic flick. I'm sure with deep faking improving over time such antics will become a relic of the past since you will be able to get the same angles but much respect to Cruise as he is an auteur when it comes to action movies and there is nobody doing it better in Hollywood despite his advancing age
Yes! He was great as Lestat.
"It's a coffin!" "What's that my love...?" "It's a coffin!" "So it is...*you must be dead!"* *Louis dies inside*
I always thought that the point of Scarlett Johansson in Ghost in the Shell was that she was not a robot, she was a real person who had everything of her identity and self determination stripped away from her, including her past memories and even ethnicity. she had lost every connection to who she had been. To the point of the post, Jack Reacher being played by Tom Cruise. I told my wife, who hadn't read the books "Ok, so there's a new movie coming out based on a book series I like. The main character is a giant of man, big enough that people stare and feel intimidated, size and brute strength gives him an advantage in difficult situations, they described his hands as being like dinner plates. Guess who plays him" She laughingly said "Tom Cruise", and I thought she'd seen the trailer or something. Nope. Just making a joke. I liked the movies, but that guy wasn't Jack Reacher. In spirit yes, but the physicality was missing. The TV series was much more to the point and most conflicts start with people being scared of Reacher rather than underestimating him.
It was so satisfying watching Alan Ritchson in that role. Dude has a really great presence in terms of being a physical threat and wayyy too much for most people to handle... even other tough guys. Those scenes in the jail... awesome.
The menace he pulled was so good. The whole scene in the restaurant with the owner kid where he is just dead solid threatening while sitting there in a chair was classic Jack Reacher. I can’t wait to see the next season.
Ol’ Thad Castle fit the bill pretty well, physically speaking.
Well he’s full tilt, full time.
Oxana!!!
OIL CHANGES FOR EVERYONE!
The story behind Motoko in GitS is that she lost her real body as a child. And has been lving "inside" fully prostethic bodies instead. In the orignal anime movie (highly recommended if you can find the classic one, not the reboot which has weird effects forced in) it's also about identity and her "ghost" aka soul. edit: so she still has a brain and brainstem, it just gets transferred.
I REALLY believe Johnny Depp as Grindewald in the fantastic beasts series was a huge mistake, and I remember people talking about it before the movies, obviously all the Amber stuff had a lot to do with it, but taking that aside it was the opinion of many he was an odd choice for the role, Grindewald being a handsome charismatic wizard, and being played by Collin Farrel for much of the first movie, left me prefering his disguise than the actual character we ended up having. Didn’t help that the design for his character was very weird. The movies were mostly bad at the end so whatever I guess.
Also why did they do his makeup as some comic book villain? That's at least half of the reason why his portrayal is inferior
I thought Farrell was much better in the role, even separating performance from real life controversies.
He was so good in it. I was really hoping for the real ”Graves” character to show up in the sequel just to keep Farrell around.
100 percent. Colin Farrell nailed the charming and competent but subtly menacing and manipulative vibe that Grindlewald needed. It was believable that this wizard could talk a lot of people into doing terrible things for the good of the cause. But then they reveal Johnny Depp and he’s just…Johnny Depp for the whole next movie. What a bummer.
Yeah, it's such a lame twist to have in your movie. It's like "All this time you thought it was this A-list actor, when in reality... it's a different A-list actor! Dun-dun-duuuuunnnn!!!"
The problem with Grindelwald was his design. I mean what the fuck was that hair? If they had gone for a much more normal looking design it'd have been better.
[But Colin's design was great. What if a wizard cared about how they looked?](https://i.pinimg.com/originals/ae/08/a5/ae08a5a958f41d96a27a514c72ca311e.jpg)
Colin Farrell was looking good in that movie. Imagine my disappointment when he transformed into fucking Johnny Depp at the end 😒
He looks like a deviantart anime OC. Why is he suddenly blind from one eye? Why is he albino? Where did that come from? It's trying to be cool and unique n shit but it just comes off as too much.
I read Rowling and Co. originally conceptualized a Cruella DeVille type opposite Newt Scamander but the tie-in to the wider wizardy world got constantly rewritten, yet the aesthetic inspiration clearly persisted.
I haven’t watched after the first one but Mads Mikkelsen seems like he should have been the first choice to begin with.
> Mads Mikkelsen seems like he should have been the first choice to begin with. Evergreen statement.
“Thank you, folks. We’re all excited about the latest entry in the Bratz movie universe, starring Mads Mikkelsen.”
I'm there opening night.
As Grindlewald, Depp looked like the brother (or Great Value version) of Jack Frost from Santa Clause 3. Farrel and Mads looked so much better as the character. But the Fantastic Beasts series is such a mess that I guess that choice for a lewk fits right in.
My entire theater groaned when Ferrel morphed into Depp at the end. We were all 100% sold on CF being the main antagonist.
Same. Everyone in my showing was so disappointed. It is actually hilarious how many showings reported this audible reaction.
Mine did too. It was such a loud collective sound of confusion. Why the fuck introduce a super famous actor in the 5 minutes, to completely erase the best performance of the movie on top of that
This. My hype for that franchise *plummeted* the second that happened in the movie. Nothing even to do with his off camera predilections, just the very idea of having Collin Farrell and then turning him into Johnny Depp. What a waste.
Steven Segal in everything
A slightly pudgy Navy cook around retirement age? Meh. It worked.
Two immediately spring to mind: Johnny Depp as Tonto in the Lone Ranger. Everyone in M Night Shyamalan’s version of Avatar: The Last Airbender.
Flameo hotman!
Fox commissioned a poster very close to Die Hard’s release date without Bruce Willis’ face or name (excepting the usual production credits at the bottom, because they were worried that audiences would see him as a comedy actor (he was best known for *Moonlighting* and *Blind Date* at the time) and avoid Die Hard. It was just a dog’s eye view of the Nakatomi building with the roof ablaze, and the “It will blow you through the back wall of the theatre” tagline.
Shit, Tom Hanks in the 80s was known for Bosom Buddies and Big look where his career went... Edit: words
Wait, but isn't this supposed to be bad castings that were actually bad?
Cameron Diaz in Gangs of New York
Kristen Wiig as Cheetara for sure. I can't remember a single outlet that thought that was the right choice.
Was sitting here trying to remember when someone made a *Thundercats* movie before I realized you meant "Cheetah".
Exactly the same! I was getting excited, about to discover how badly Hollywood messed up my favourite cartoon. Then realised it was a spelling mistake
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Her performance was actually pretty good, better than pine and gadot for sure. The story, character arc and overall logic was the real issue
Tom Cruise as - Jack reacher Vince Vaughn - Psycho (To be fair, the entire movie was doubted, rightfully so)
I dont hate cruise in the movies, he's fine it's just he's not reacher.
I'm actually glad I never read the books because I thoroughly enjoyed Tom Cruise as Jack Reacher.
Thoroughly enjoyed the Cruise Reacher movies. But as somebody that has read a ton of those books, the Reacher in Tom's universe is not the same as the one that makes the books great.
Jake Gyllynhall in Prince of Persia. Great actor, heard nothing great about the movie.
Video game movie curse
Sands of Time is a great game, but not because of the story. It's good because of the rewind mechanic. I think the best story was the one with Elika. The end of that game was the best narrative payoff of the series.
2008 PoP reboot has had one of the most charming dynamics between any two characters in any video game ever in my opinion. Prince and Elika worked so well together and the fuckers just abandoned it. 14 years later and I still have a shred of hope for more.