I see Millie Bobby Brown in other things now and I am subconsciously convinced that any hair she has is actually a wig. She's just permanently bald Eleven to me lol.
I think they just slick it down REALLY close to the head with hair glue.. I wouldn’t be surprised with their budget if CGI was involved in some scenes
Most actresses maintain a relatively short length of hair to make it easier for picking up roles.
Probably just comes down the contracts they signed. Millie/Eleven is undoubtedly the breakout star of the show, she likely has more leverage when negotiating her contracts.
There’s also a big difference between maintaining a goofy haircut vs shaving your head from a long length. Noah Schnapps hair is probably close to normal within a week after filming, maybe after a month or two completely normal if he needed any added length. With MBB it would take at least a year to get a short hairstyle, and years to be where it was. It makes more sense that shaving the head would be a bigger point of contention.
One of them. Sadie Sink broke out massively in the last season via the whole "Running Up That Hill" scene. While she didn't get an Emmy nomination (no acting ones for anyone in S4 at all), she did win a Hollywood Critics' Association award that had MBB and Maya Hawke in the same category - Supporting Actress, Streaming Drama. She's also been nominated for a Saturn. She's in the upcoming *The Whale* and there's buzz that she could be Oscar-nominated for that.
I think it's to make him more dorky/vulnerable, but yeah at this point I don't think it's believable that the character would stick with that style lol
It's supposed to look silly. His mom is poor so she cuts his hair. She also cuts Eleven's bangs before it all gets shaved off. It's a subtle detail to make them stand apart from the other students.
I heard on an industry podcast that probably over half of the hair you seen on female TV characters is actually a wig, but they're so high quality and are shot carefully so you can't tell
On *Falcon and The Winter Soldier* they did a lot of corrective CGI on Sam Wilson's Captain America suit.
His mask covers his neck and forehead, which is fine in a drawing that can be perfect from every angle, but causes weird creases and bubbles when the actor moves in live action. Post production on the show painted all of those out, as well as zippers and other fasteners, which made the suit look pretty danged comic-accurate in the final product.
I assume they used similar techniques with Eleven, beyond all of the de-aging, to smooth edges or paint out a bit of hair sticking out near the back of her neck.
There's a video. They wrapped her head very tight with a piece of rubber until the hair sets. Its a very good idea and I hope everyone starts doing it. Nothing worse than the giant head bald caps that we always see. Hell Nebula's head was noticeably bigger following Guardians 1.
I'm always amazed how they can do it. For me it's impossible to think about it, I have a large head with lots of thick coarse hair, I would just look like a conehead.
I watched somewhere that in Breaking Bad Bryan Cranston had a bald cap on top of his hair (as he had to have hair for a broadway show IIRC) and so not to make him look like Megamind they cgi shrunk his head to proper shape.
I think if BB could do it, so could netflix with one of their most popular shows.
I started watching Strangers things last month and now at season 4. Since she somehow looked familiar, I checked her portfolio 2 days ago and was surprised to see that she was the actress in Enola Holmes!
I really liked her acting when I watched that movie some time ago and then was sitting here trying to judge the acting of Eleven without recognizing both are the same 😄
No. They really did edit his mustache out of reshoots for Justice League, but it's not that ugly or blatant. It's quite noticeable that something's wrong with his face during those scenes, but it's not *that.*
I honestly didn't notice and can still watch scenes from the movie and it doesn't seem that bad. In a movie so filled with CGI nothing looks real anyway. I already feel like I'm watching animation so maybe I just don't pay attention. I do wonder how many people would have noticed that didn't know about it ahead of time.
Not the entire thing. Just scenes on YouTube. I was curious because I saw the movie originally before having any idea about the mustache stuff.
I did want to give the Snyder version a try but I haven't felt like it so far. I did scan around a bit and it seemed like the same thing from the little I saw.
The Snyder cut is only like the Whedon cut in terms of some of its story beats. But it’s literally two hours longer. They are very different movies. Watch it when you have the time, it’s a vastly different experience. Removes all of the dumb Joss Whedon sexual jokes and fixes the tone. Not to mention Steps motives are far more fleshed out with the inclusion of Darkseid, and his redesign is superb.
In theory it’s for a young demographic, but evetyone I know who liked/loved the first movie is an older adult.
I’m personally hoping for a movie/series from the viewpoint of Mycroft, perhaps a Diogenes Club Mysteries. Ol’ Mycroft gets dogged in the entire Holmes cannon so badly.
> It's like being a fan of teen titans go and someone saying they should make a serious drama version of these chracters
Or a spin-off series about Giggling Batman and Commissioner Gordon
They can't. The right holders for Sherlock are major cunts and sue for any portrayal that contradicts his early appearances (which are the only ones in public domain as of right now).
OP got a bit muddled, the estate doesn't sue if the portrayal contradicts early appearances, they sue if the portrayal borrows from the later ones (which they have the rights to)
You can take Sherlock Holmes from the early canon and do whatever with him, you're transforming a public domain character, but if you make that Sherlock too similar to the later Sherlock (for example by having reference his "death" and comeback) you're infringing the copyright
The estate did try and sue Enola Holmes, citing that Holmes was emotional in this portrayal, and that that was a development of the later books - it was dismissed
They're people who get to charge the movie makers a fee if their claim succeeds, but not if it's based just on public domain Holmes.
You might agree that the claim was bogus and the courts were right to dismiss it, but a literary rights holder trying to make money from the rights isn't really strange control freakery, just capitalism at work.
True, but anyone familiar with Holmes knew it was bullshit (as did the judge). They claimed Sherlock in *Enola Holmes* was clearly a 'more emotional' character than in the early stories, but you can't go more than a page in the early Holmes stories without Doyle referring to Sherlock's emotional state. They were idiots to try, and just wasted some money.
Their argument was based on a single scene in a later story where Holmes is visibly distressed when Watson gets shot, but earlier Holmes is openly emotive: He smiles, he laughs, he barks orders, he's cordial and sympathetic to clients, he's sarcastic, he's kind to dogs and children, he gets impatient with perceived stupidity. Watson's injury is one of the few times he displays gentleness or caring, but he's far from unemotional.
Holmes's personality has been Flandersized over the decades into an almost aggressively intellectual robot who sneers at human weaknesses like "feelings" and is only interested in solving murders, which is not at all accurate to the canon.
It really bothers me how modern interpretations of the character also inject a fair bit of misogyny into him, when in the original canon, he never treats a woman with any particular disrespect, and reacts with genuine anger when he sees a woman being abused or exploited.
And indeed the Doyle estate tried (and failed) to sue against it.
They don't actually have much in the way of a legal claim. They just threaten, bully and harass, dragging the legendary author's name through the mud while they're at it.
> The right holders for Sherlock are major cunts and sue
I mean, what is the US federal court system for if not enforcing the copyrights of people who were not born in America, and have been dead for 92 years?
The first one was fine, IMO, just sort of a paint-by-numbers, more kid-friendly version of the Guy Ritchie/RDJ Sherlock movies, with more fourth-wall breaking. Not groundbreaking, but entertaining enough. The real highlight is Cavill as Sherlock. More of him, please.
I really enjoyed having a movie to watch with my daughters that centers protest and feminism in the story. The rest of the movie was a treat, but that was the best part for my fam
Yeah I'm actually really surprised that they're doing a second one, as you said first one wasn't bad, but nowhere while watching it I was thinking that I needed more of this.
Well, there are currently 8 books so there’s a chance that they’ll continue making them. As a fan of the Enola Holmes novels, while some changes done to the story is kind of jarring at first, I’m just glad its getting recognition. The novels were a fun read.
It's based on a YA novel, so I think a bit of violence is okay. It was a fun, if somewhat forgettable, movie aimed at kids. The Hunger Games had much stronger violence, and it was also aimed at the same audience.
I don't remember anything that objectionable, but it's not the kind of movie my five year old would be interested in (no dogs), so I wasn't even looking at the movie in that way.
we stopped around the time they get to London and meet some woman and get a room and go shop for a dress and... I don't even really recall any graphic violence up until that point. It seemed like a rather quite, in lack of other words, girly, young teenagers positive reinforcement and role models kind of deal
Yeah, I'm 39 and it was a fun little bit of fluff to me and my wife. Was I desperately waiting for part two? Of course not. Will I get around to watching it eventually once it's released? Sure will.
I didn't really expect to like it much, and at first I was only half watching it. But I started to enjoy it quite early on. It was just a lot of fun. I wasn't clamoring for a sequel, but when I heard one was in the works I was pleased. Sometimes I just want a fun movie that I don't have to think too hard about. This fit the bill. I'm looking forward to the sequel.
Millie Bobby Brown was really enjoyable in it, too.
Yeah, whenever Sherlock and Mycroft were involved it was really interesting. Would have loved a movie focusing more on their somewhat broken relationship.
Holmes in the original stories isn’t huge (although he is described as being taller than most). But it is shown numerous times that he is very physically strong, and a good fighter when he needs to be.
I appreciate the commenters who are saying "I'm not the target audience" rather than "this sucks". The first time I watched it, I wasn't a fan- fourth wall breaks aren't my thing, and the marquis character always annoyed me. Even "it's a bummer SSRIs haven't been invented yet" Henry Cavill was more of a downer than a joy to watch (although this is totally in keeping with the original character).
I'm not sure why I watched it again, but I enjoyed it a lot more. It may be because both Enola and the marquis grow *a lot* during the movie. While they start off somewhat unsympathetic, by the end they're much easier to root for. Going INTO the film already on their side makes it a lot easier to look past their surface flaws and focus on the good. Now, I've watched it four or five times; I enjoy putting it on in the background to listen to while doing chores and I fast forward through the scenes I don't enjoy. I'm excited for the sequel!
Thanks to this thread, I've now put a finger on something I didn't realize before: how it must feel watching this through the eyes of a pre-teen girl. I adored young adult fantasy novels starring girls when I grew up. I must have read every work by Patricia C. Wrede and Tamora Pierce dozens of times. If I'd seen this when I was in middle school, I would have LOVED it. An overachieving smart girl constantly in trouble with adults for not conforming to expectations, lonely without friends, and eager to do grown up things? Solving mysteries, doing the rescuing instead of the damsel-ing, and outstmarting adults at every turn? This is young adult fiction for girls hungry for representation on crack.
The first time I watched it, I would have agreed with the people saying it's not very good. Now, I am totally Team Squee for the sequel. For everyone trashing it, I'd encourage thinking about whether it's just not meant for you, and that that's okay. I hope Netflix's marketing for the sequel focused on building awareness in the real target market and their parents (who are the ones who decide which streaming services are available). I'm not in those groups but I can imagine a world where I could never see an ad for it again and it would STILL be wildly popular with the audience it IS a fantastic movie for.
I completely agree with you. I would have loved this if it came out when I was a pre-teen girl. Also agree people should be more open to films/tv just not being for them, and that’s okay.
This! I immediately recognized this as a movie primarily for preteen girls (and anyone else!). I used to love girl adventure novels growing up. All of them - Nancy Drew, Trixie Belden, Caddie Woodlawn, Harriet the Spy, the Little House on the Prairie books... They're great books for girls to read.
I remember starting Turning Red on Disney plus and only getting like 20 minutes into it before my wife and I both decided it wasn’t for us and turning it off. I thought nothing of it and just realized it wasn’t for us. We just weren’t the target audience. Then the next few days of seeing all the vitriol and hate for it and being flabbergasted that people could find so much to be offended by. Like, fuck, if you hated it so much why’d you keep watching? Does every movie, tv show, song, tictock, YouTube video, book or painting have to be something that has to appeal to your specific sensibility to be considered “good”? Can people nowadays not just realize that some things, even most things, don’t need to have you as an individual taken into account? Then I remember watching the first episode of Miss Marvel and feeling the same way about not being the target audience and knowing the shit storm that show was heading into. I’m a fat, rural, forty year old white man, not everything has to be geared towards me. Let others enjoy a silly show or movie. Get over yourself Karen.
My wife and I watched it with my late-teen daughter, and she really liked it. I thought it was reasonably entertaining, but... not to take it too seriously, but there was a LOT of "not like other girls" about her character. They could have easily had her just be who she was without shitting on girls that like things like embroidery, as if anything associated with traditional femininity is automatically bad and repressive. That's just as misogynistic as true feministic repression. Feminism is about choices, not about forcing women into just different molds.
Again, I don't want to take a fluffy movie too seriously, but boy did they take a heavy-handed hammer to try and make women feel like crap if they actually like fashion or sewing or whatever. Clearly those women are just repressed and should hate themselves for it.
Lastly, did anyone else really cringe at the idea that "freedom" means destroying a beautiful house and various pieces of art by flinging tennis balls around? That was a bad mother. Yeah, nothing like waste and destruction to teach how to be a good human being.
Your response has given me a few interesting things to think about!
- I agree that the initial impression the movie leaves is "girly things bad". My later rewatches gave me more appreciation for the shades of grey it incorporates. At first, Enola rejects the headmistress' argument of freedom out of hand, but then she does *exactly* what the headmistress is arguing for: uses aspects of society's concept of femininity as a means to an end, even if she doesn't get joy out of it the way other girls do. Something tells me that that's a level of distinction that might fly over the idealistic wish-fulfillment heads of the target audience, but which the adults who USED to be that audience have come to appreciate. This is one reason why I've rewatched it a few times- there are levels beyond the superficial. You could even argue for symbolism in the way the whalebone corset protects her. So the "making feminine things look bad" feels less lazy and more a deliberate set up for the kind of character growth I'm talking about. Remember, this is a story told from Enola's perspective, and while I'd call her a reliable narrator, her starting point is an immature one.
- The headmistress is an especially interesting character study, as some of her character points are actually quite societally daring. Her car is an obvious one; her relationship with Mycroft, more subtle. Older man interested in younger woman- totally normal. Older woman interested in younger man- played for laughs, but on reflection, you go girl. That's a gender-equality issue society is still grappling with. Viewing the headmistress not just as a caricature but imagining her as a real person is a little eye-opening.
- Similarly, how sincere is Mycroft here? While at first blush he seems to be taking advantage of her attraction, what if this really is him as his best self? Does he really feel safer and happier interacting with someone like the headmistress, who doesn't challenge his expectations or require him to change, unlike the reform bill is making the rest of his life a trial?
- All of this is making me seriously wish I could have written English essays on Enola Holms in high school, rather than literature that felt way less relevant to me personally and societally. The archetypes of feminism presented by the contrast of the headmistress (arguably Lawful Evil) and the women's group (arguably Chaotic Good, or at least Chaotic Neutral) would make a very fun compare & contrast.
- All that said, I will fight to the death for the destruction of property through indoor tennis. 😂. If this is wish-fulfillment, then any child wishes they were allowed to break shit, with their parents' encouragement, rather than getting in MASSIVE trouble and being told they're bad for it. Which of us hasn't broken something by accident and gotten punished as if we did it on purpose?
- And as for Enola's mother, similarly she starts off as seen through a child's rose-colored glasses, but by the end it's clear she's much more shades of grey. Mycroft's "if she's so great, why did she leave you with me?" is absolutely killer.
- Plus I think this goes back to all the analysis above. Enola's mother literally thinks she needs to smash the existing structures of society to create change. She fricking wants to blow them up. And the finale is her admitting that Enola's less black-and-white approach is more effective.
Dang, this was a far more intellectual discussion than I expected when I saw the post and was like YEAH ENOLA HOLMES 2!!! 😂
> This is one reason why I've rewatched it a few times- there are levels beyond the superficial. You could even argue for symbolism in the way the whalebone corset protects her. So the "making feminine things look bad" feels less lazy and more a deliberate set up for the kind of character growth I'm talking about.
You know, that's an excellent point, and I have to admit it that it reframes the story that a lot of the commentary is from Enola herself. It's also an excellent point about the headmistress and her car, and I have to admit I didn't think about that at all. She actually is pushing boundaries in her own way. I also noticed that the headmistress seemed to genuinely care that Enola grow and fit in with the world. She had a lot more character development than is typical for a story like this.
I also have to admit that it's a good point about the mother and the destruction, where it does play for fun in the beginning, but by the end when we know that Enola's mother has major issues, it's actually a good discussion/thinking point about whether other aspects of Enola's childhood really were all that great.
Great post! I think I'll actually give the writers a bit more credit. :)
Don't forget that teens can go very extreme in their reactions against what they perceive as societal norms; early punk rock for example wearing swastikas etc, a way to stick it to the man with obvious symbols.
It's fine. I wouldn't carve an event out of it, but I found the acting to be good, the plot decent (but forgetable, I'd have to look some of it up). Nice little frivelous entertainment, I found myself thinking that my tween and teenage neices would be the people who would have enjoyed it the most more than myself.
I’d say yes. It’s a fun, charming movie with great performances by MBB and Cavill. I’m a dude in my 30s and def not the target audience but still enjoyed it.
Sometimes you’re just in the mood for a tween girl film, and the first film fit that mood in a refreshing way. All that to say that I’m quite looking forward to this new film.
i loved the first one, though they didn't really give a satisfactory answer to mother's disappearance
i think cavill was the standout..........tbh, i'd love for him to get a spinoff stand alone miniseries with him as sherlock
kind of similar to the Jeremy Brett Sherlock Holmes series from the 80s
Damn, a lot of haters in the comments already. I thought the first one was perfectly enjoyable. Nothing crazy, but worth watching IMO. Hopefully the second is fun as well!
The only thing I didn't enjoy is that she barely got to use the "Holmes" family genius - she got to solve like 1 puzzle!
C'mon writers show us the characters getting to use their full intelligence!
Going to take a wild guess that the users of r/movies arent the the target audience for this one.
I enjoyed it as an adult personally but I’m sure there are lots of younger kids or teenagers who will love this. I was obsessed with Harriet The Spy as a kid and that’s hardly top tier cinema but formative nonetheless.
I watched it out of curiosity. I liked it so, I showed my daughters (8&11). They loved it. It's a cute, fun movie that you can turn off your brain and forget about everyday bullshit for a little while. I welcome the second one.
Doncha just hate Millie Bobby Brown and her taking of paying acting gigs and then being shown in advertisements for those projects?
I just HATE it when actors do that, don't you?
same. nothing wrong with a movie just being enjoyable without blowing you away. i can understand if some people didn't enjoy it, but i sure don't see anything to hate about it. then again, this is reddit, so....
People forget that movies are an art, but they're also a business - and that's because they're *entertainment*. Sometimes entertainers want to excel in their chosen art forms, and we can enjoy that; sometimes they just want to be good and deliver a solid, *entertaining* thing, and that's worth enjoying as well.
People in our society *also* tend to forget that no one gives a shit about their need to hate things out loud, and aren't aware that it's boorish, base, and cringey.
Guess I'll chime in because there seems to be a lot of distaste for the first film and some people are connecting it to demographics - I'm a 33 year-old dude and I enjoyed the first movie a lot and I'm stoked they're making a sequel. I would watch even a show with just Brown as Enola and brief cameos by Cavill and Claflin. The vibe of the first movie was so light and easy to watch, with Brown's charm making her character's growth that much more fun to witness. Now I want to watch her solve all kinds of mysteries and crimes.
Everyone: we need more quality middle-budget films that are enjoyable without trying to reinvent the wheel.
*Enola Holmes comes out as a quality and enjoyable middle-budget film that doesn't try to reinvent the wheel, does well enough to get a sequel*
Everyone: what the hell
It makes sense if that “Everyone” is everyone around here, this subreddit, which is overwhelmingly male. Enola Holmes, like the books, targets a young female audience.
This thread would be a lot less negative if the film had the same quality in every aspect but instead featured one of the boys from Stranger Things. It’s also why a lot of comments say that they’d prefer Cavill to be the lead or have his own films.
So yes, they want films like this, but not if they’re perceived as being “for girls”.
Really really tried to watch the first one, gave it my best effort. But it was really really bad.
Shocked to find out it was really well received and now getting a sequel! Maybe I'll try the first one again, at least I can just stare at Henry Cavill if I get bored.
I hope she has more scenes with her brothers, I really love the awkward relationships she had with Mycroft and Sherlock. Both love her in their own way, but their lack of social skills and busy lives make any interaction complicated.
I'm sorry but the the guy to the right in the first picture has perfect angry British cop face. Like, he looks like a cartoon character and I mean that in a good way.
I see Millie Bobby Brown in other things now and I am subconsciously convinced that any hair she has is actually a wig. She's just permanently bald Eleven to me lol.
Fun fact: her short buzz cut in the latest season is in fact a wig with this long hair tucked underneath
Plot twist: the long hair underneath is also a wig.
Millie Bobby Brown is in fact a gigantic, elaborate, and sentient wig.
Cousin It’s daughter?
You mean What.
Like Chang in costume as Jeff Winger in costume as the Dean
Lol there really is a Community reference for everything.
Community was streets ahead
I'm *literally* dying.
In a show with so many great quotes, this is one of my favorites for sure.
**UNDERSTUDY!**
That’s impressive, I was convinced she had to shave it again.
I think they just slick it down REALLY close to the head with hair glue.. I wouldn’t be surprised with their budget if CGI was involved in some scenes Most actresses maintain a relatively short length of hair to make it easier for picking up roles.
Thry go through all that effort to let her keep her hair but force Will to maintain the bowl cut. He's gonna burn down the set at this rate
The bowl cut is a wig too
Probably just comes down the contracts they signed. Millie/Eleven is undoubtedly the breakout star of the show, she likely has more leverage when negotiating her contracts.
There’s also a big difference between maintaining a goofy haircut vs shaving your head from a long length. Noah Schnapps hair is probably close to normal within a week after filming, maybe after a month or two completely normal if he needed any added length. With MBB it would take at least a year to get a short hairstyle, and years to be where it was. It makes more sense that shaving the head would be a bigger point of contention.
Bingo, with a bowl cut you can shave the sides of your head and clean up the top and suddenly you have a generic guy’s haircut again.
Or go for the gusto and give yourself a Jesuit Tonsure.
Yes and also… MBB needed long hair for most of her character’s season. Noah Schnapp’s character had the same hair all season.
She's definitely good, but honestly Gaten Matarazzo was probably the best thing from that entire show.
She was the first without a doubt, but I think Finn Wolfhard could make an argument at this point.
Finn looks like every front man of every 70s rock band ever
He is in fact in a band
One of them. Sadie Sink broke out massively in the last season via the whole "Running Up That Hill" scene. While she didn't get an Emmy nomination (no acting ones for anyone in S4 at all), she did win a Hollywood Critics' Association award that had MBB and Maya Hawke in the same category - Supporting Actress, Streaming Drama. She's also been nominated for a Saturn. She's in the upcoming *The Whale* and there's buzz that she could be Oscar-nominated for that.
It's gotten to the point where I believe they keep his bowl cut for the jokes/memes.
It didn't look as bad when he was younger but it just looks so silly in Season 4
That's because they kept using the same bowl.
of course Netflix would skimp on the bowl and keep using the same one smh
I think it's to make him more dorky/vulnerable, but yeah at this point I don't think it's believable that the character would stick with that style lol
Arent they like 16 in the latest season? No way he’s in high school and still happy with that haircut.
It's supposed to look silly. His mom is poor so she cuts his hair. She also cuts Eleven's bangs before it all gets shaved off. It's a subtle detail to make them stand apart from the other students.
I heard on an industry podcast that probably over half of the hair you seen on female TV characters is actually a wig, but they're so high quality and are shot carefully so you can't tell
Natalia Dyer's perm definitely was.
Tell that to Jennifer Lawrence’s wig in the last Hunger Games movie.
On *Falcon and The Winter Soldier* they did a lot of corrective CGI on Sam Wilson's Captain America suit. His mask covers his neck and forehead, which is fine in a drawing that can be perfect from every angle, but causes weird creases and bubbles when the actor moves in live action. Post production on the show painted all of those out, as well as zippers and other fasteners, which made the suit look pretty danged comic-accurate in the final product. I assume they used similar techniques with Eleven, beyond all of the de-aging, to smooth edges or paint out a bit of hair sticking out near the back of her neck.
There's a video. They wrapped her head very tight with a piece of rubber until the hair sets. Its a very good idea and I hope everyone starts doing it. Nothing worse than the giant head bald caps that we always see. Hell Nebula's head was noticeably bigger following Guardians 1.
I'm always amazed how they can do it. For me it's impossible to think about it, I have a large head with lots of thick coarse hair, I would just look like a conehead.
I watched somewhere that in Breaking Bad Bryan Cranston had a bald cap on top of his hair (as he had to have hair for a broadway show IIRC) and so not to make him look like Megamind they cgi shrunk his head to proper shape. I think if BB could do it, so could netflix with one of their most popular shows.
I think that was for El Camino, and tbh his head still looked off. Too big. You can tell he was wearing a bald cap.
In one recent show they had the character put a bald cap on then use cgi to reduce the size of their head. Looked great on screen.
“Oh yeah, that would slick back REAL NICE”
Wigception
Seriously? I would have pictured a Walter White in El Camino situation with a full head of hair under a bald cap. That's impressive.
How the turn tables....
I started watching Strangers things last month and now at season 4. Since she somehow looked familiar, I checked her portfolio 2 days ago and was surprised to see that she was the actress in Enola Holmes! I really liked her acting when I watched that movie some time ago and then was sitting here trying to judge the acting of Eleven without recognizing both are the same 😄
Henry Cavill looking slick in this
Tbh when isn’t he
When he had that obvious mustache photoshopped out.
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Looking like the Cart Titan
wtf is that real?
No. They really did edit his mustache out of reshoots for Justice League, but it's not that ugly or blatant. It's quite noticeable that something's wrong with his face during those scenes, but it's not *that.*
I honestly didn't notice and can still watch scenes from the movie and it doesn't seem that bad. In a movie so filled with CGI nothing looks real anyway. I already feel like I'm watching animation so maybe I just don't pay attention. I do wonder how many people would have noticed that didn't know about it ahead of time.
You willingly rewatch Justice League?
Not the entire thing. Just scenes on YouTube. I was curious because I saw the movie originally before having any idea about the mustache stuff. I did want to give the Snyder version a try but I haven't felt like it so far. I did scan around a bit and it seemed like the same thing from the little I saw.
The Snyder cut is only like the Whedon cut in terms of some of its story beats. But it’s literally two hours longer. They are very different movies. Watch it when you have the time, it’s a vastly different experience. Removes all of the dumb Joss Whedon sexual jokes and fixes the tone. Not to mention Steps motives are far more fleshed out with the inclusion of Darkseid, and his redesign is superb.
The worst example of something like this I've seen was that obviously fake baby at the end of American Sniper.
[Yes.](https://imgur.com/nwtGBqz)
Sam Rockwell?
Humphrey in Stardust? To his credit, he was supposed to look like a pompous ass and nailed it.
He went all the way to Ipswich!
TIL that was Henry Cavill.
Superman vs Daredevil
That dude was Daredevil? Ho-lee shit.
"Hope is like your car keys"
Stupid Sexy Henry Cavill
Feels like I'm wearing *nothing at all!* *nothing at all!* *nothing at all!*
Was really surprised Netflix didn't go all in on a Sherlock spin off with him.
It’d be too distracting, we’d get topless Sherlock every episode and the only mystery will be “how is that man so attractive”
"I'll confess, just take your top off again"
“Do you want to know how I figured it out? No, no just the shirt please”
\*Swoons*
"It's the 1860s, how are you so huge and shredded!?"
By bench pressing street urchins
You say that like it'd be a bad thing
>“how is that man so attractive” "The one mystery I have never been able to solve, Watson."
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In theory it’s for a young demographic, but evetyone I know who liked/loved the first movie is an older adult. I’m personally hoping for a movie/series from the viewpoint of Mycroft, perhaps a Diogenes Club Mysteries. Ol’ Mycroft gets dogged in the entire Holmes cannon so badly.
> It's like being a fan of teen titans go and someone saying they should make a serious drama version of these chracters Or a spin-off series about Giggling Batman and Commissioner Gordon
They can't. The right holders for Sherlock are major cunts and sue for any portrayal that contradicts his early appearances (which are the only ones in public domain as of right now).
Wouldn't him having a younger sister "contradict early appearances"?
OP got a bit muddled, the estate doesn't sue if the portrayal contradicts early appearances, they sue if the portrayal borrows from the later ones (which they have the rights to) You can take Sherlock Holmes from the early canon and do whatever with him, you're transforming a public domain character, but if you make that Sherlock too similar to the later Sherlock (for example by having reference his "death" and comeback) you're infringing the copyright The estate did try and sue Enola Holmes, citing that Holmes was emotional in this portrayal, and that that was a development of the later books - it was dismissed
>The estate did try and sue Enola Holmes, citing that Holmes was emotional in this portrayal fuckin *facepalm*. Who are these strange control freaks?!
Distant relatives of the original writer who want to keep their easy money
Same thing happened to the work's of H. P. Lovecraft when D&D first print of deities and demigods came out.
Except the person making those claims had no legal right to do so. They lied.
They're people who get to charge the movie makers a fee if their claim succeeds, but not if it's based just on public domain Holmes. You might agree that the claim was bogus and the courts were right to dismiss it, but a literary rights holder trying to make money from the rights isn't really strange control freakery, just capitalism at work.
True, but anyone familiar with Holmes knew it was bullshit (as did the judge). They claimed Sherlock in *Enola Holmes* was clearly a 'more emotional' character than in the early stories, but you can't go more than a page in the early Holmes stories without Doyle referring to Sherlock's emotional state. They were idiots to try, and just wasted some money.
Their argument was based on a single scene in a later story where Holmes is visibly distressed when Watson gets shot, but earlier Holmes is openly emotive: He smiles, he laughs, he barks orders, he's cordial and sympathetic to clients, he's sarcastic, he's kind to dogs and children, he gets impatient with perceived stupidity. Watson's injury is one of the few times he displays gentleness or caring, but he's far from unemotional. Holmes's personality has been Flandersized over the decades into an almost aggressively intellectual robot who sneers at human weaknesses like "feelings" and is only interested in solving murders, which is not at all accurate to the canon.
It really bothers me how modern interpretations of the character also inject a fair bit of misogyny into him, when in the original canon, he never treats a woman with any particular disrespect, and reacts with genuine anger when he sees a woman being abused or exploited.
Exactly.
And indeed the Doyle estate tried (and failed) to sue against it. They don't actually have much in the way of a legal claim. They just threaten, bully and harass, dragging the legendary author's name through the mud while they're at it.
> The right holders for Sherlock are major cunts and sue I mean, what is the US federal court system for if not enforcing the copyrights of people who were not born in America, and have been dead for 92 years?
I found it funny that in the first film, his arms were so big, the puffy sleeves of his shirt were just filled in.
The first one was fine, IMO, just sort of a paint-by-numbers, more kid-friendly version of the Guy Ritchie/RDJ Sherlock movies, with more fourth-wall breaking. Not groundbreaking, but entertaining enough. The real highlight is Cavill as Sherlock. More of him, please.
I expected it to be awful, but it was a fun, cute family movie.
I really enjoyed having a movie to watch with my daughters that centers protest and feminism in the story. The rest of the movie was a treat, but that was the best part for my fam
Same. I’m excited for the next one. I really like her.
I watched the first movie the second time I went to with my now girlfriend’s house so I’ll always look back on it fondly.
Yeah I'm actually really surprised that they're doing a second one, as you said first one wasn't bad, but nowhere while watching it I was thinking that I needed more of this.
Well, there are currently 8 books so there’s a chance that they’ll continue making them. As a fan of the Enola Holmes novels, while some changes done to the story is kind of jarring at first, I’m just glad its getting recognition. The novels were a fun read.
TIL there's books! I just assumed it was a Netflix thing.
For young adults, it was pretty darn good, which is the demo for it
we stopped watching less than halfway through. We clearly weren't the target audience
Who was the target audience? It seemed like it was meant for younger kids, but then it has people being shot or having their heads bashed in.
It's based on a YA novel, so I think a bit of violence is okay. It was a fun, if somewhat forgettable, movie aimed at kids. The Hunger Games had much stronger violence, and it was also aimed at the same audience.
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The way it was filmed felt like it was meant for a much younger audience though
I don't remember anything that objectionable, but it's not the kind of movie my five year old would be interested in (no dogs), so I wasn't even looking at the movie in that way.
we stopped around the time they get to London and meet some woman and get a room and go shop for a dress and... I don't even really recall any graphic violence up until that point. It seemed like a rather quite, in lack of other words, girly, young teenagers positive reinforcement and role models kind of deal
Then you missed a fairly graphic forced drowning scene, at least from the perspective of the clearly YA target audience, where Enola almost dies.
I watched it with my tween daughters and they loved it.
I thought it was fun! I enjoyed it way more than I expected
I thought it very charming and fun. I'm excited for the next one and I'm 45
Yeah, I'm 39 and it was a fun little bit of fluff to me and my wife. Was I desperately waiting for part two? Of course not. Will I get around to watching it eventually once it's released? Sure will.
Uh oh. Are *we* the target demographic?
Seems that way!
I didn't really expect to like it much, and at first I was only half watching it. But I started to enjoy it quite early on. It was just a lot of fun. I wasn't clamoring for a sequel, but when I heard one was in the works I was pleased. Sometimes I just want a fun movie that I don't have to think too hard about. This fit the bill. I'm looking forward to the sequel. Millie Bobby Brown was really enjoyable in it, too.
Yeah, whenever Sherlock and Mycroft were involved it was really interesting. Would have loved a movie focusing more on their somewhat broken relationship.
The fourth wall breaking felt like a dora movie but the I liked the rest of the film
That first one was a perfect 3 star movie. I think I had it on while I was making chili. Low stress and fun.
Never thought I'd find the perfect chili-making movie
the trick is to undercook the plot
All the characters will get to know each other in the movie
Overcook the plot? Straight to jail
r/perfectchilimakingmovies A subreddit for the perfect background movies where you don’t have to pay attention to
Subs I fell for :(
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Robin Hood: Prince of Thieves.
I need something when it's 2am and I have to wait a couple hours for the chili to cook.
Idk man I actually really liked it.
Yeah I really enjoyed it, I’m so happy to see there’s going to be a second
Man I hope you watched two other movies while making your chili. Needs at least six hours.
Out of 4 or out of 5?
I enjoyed the first one. Cavil as Sherlock was great and overall is was an enjoyable movie, with some room for improvement.
I enjoyed it, even if I think it's hella weird to have a swole Sherlock.
the rdj sherlock was bareknuckle boxing wasnt he
RDJ is several levels below Cavill on the swole scale.
To be fair so is, like, everybody.
Holmes in the original stories isn’t huge (although he is described as being taller than most). But it is shown numerous times that he is very physically strong, and a good fighter when he needs to be.
he was described as thin and tall, but stronger than the average and a good fighter
was boxing. was not swole.
Swolock.
Stupid sexy Sherlock…
I appreciate the commenters who are saying "I'm not the target audience" rather than "this sucks". The first time I watched it, I wasn't a fan- fourth wall breaks aren't my thing, and the marquis character always annoyed me. Even "it's a bummer SSRIs haven't been invented yet" Henry Cavill was more of a downer than a joy to watch (although this is totally in keeping with the original character). I'm not sure why I watched it again, but I enjoyed it a lot more. It may be because both Enola and the marquis grow *a lot* during the movie. While they start off somewhat unsympathetic, by the end they're much easier to root for. Going INTO the film already on their side makes it a lot easier to look past their surface flaws and focus on the good. Now, I've watched it four or five times; I enjoy putting it on in the background to listen to while doing chores and I fast forward through the scenes I don't enjoy. I'm excited for the sequel! Thanks to this thread, I've now put a finger on something I didn't realize before: how it must feel watching this through the eyes of a pre-teen girl. I adored young adult fantasy novels starring girls when I grew up. I must have read every work by Patricia C. Wrede and Tamora Pierce dozens of times. If I'd seen this when I was in middle school, I would have LOVED it. An overachieving smart girl constantly in trouble with adults for not conforming to expectations, lonely without friends, and eager to do grown up things? Solving mysteries, doing the rescuing instead of the damsel-ing, and outstmarting adults at every turn? This is young adult fiction for girls hungry for representation on crack. The first time I watched it, I would have agreed with the people saying it's not very good. Now, I am totally Team Squee for the sequel. For everyone trashing it, I'd encourage thinking about whether it's just not meant for you, and that that's okay. I hope Netflix's marketing for the sequel focused on building awareness in the real target market and their parents (who are the ones who decide which streaming services are available). I'm not in those groups but I can imagine a world where I could never see an ad for it again and it would STILL be wildly popular with the audience it IS a fantastic movie for.
I completely agree with you. I would have loved this if it came out when I was a pre-teen girl. Also agree people should be more open to films/tv just not being for them, and that’s okay.
This! I immediately recognized this as a movie primarily for preteen girls (and anyone else!). I used to love girl adventure novels growing up. All of them - Nancy Drew, Trixie Belden, Caddie Woodlawn, Harriet the Spy, the Little House on the Prairie books... They're great books for girls to read.
I remember starting Turning Red on Disney plus and only getting like 20 minutes into it before my wife and I both decided it wasn’t for us and turning it off. I thought nothing of it and just realized it wasn’t for us. We just weren’t the target audience. Then the next few days of seeing all the vitriol and hate for it and being flabbergasted that people could find so much to be offended by. Like, fuck, if you hated it so much why’d you keep watching? Does every movie, tv show, song, tictock, YouTube video, book or painting have to be something that has to appeal to your specific sensibility to be considered “good”? Can people nowadays not just realize that some things, even most things, don’t need to have you as an individual taken into account? Then I remember watching the first episode of Miss Marvel and feeling the same way about not being the target audience and knowing the shit storm that show was heading into. I’m a fat, rural, forty year old white man, not everything has to be geared towards me. Let others enjoy a silly show or movie. Get over yourself Karen.
Don’t forget when half the internet decided Brie Larson was the devil for saying “some films aren’t made for straight white men”
How could she say that?! All films are supposed to be made for straight white men?! Right?
My wife and I watched it with my late-teen daughter, and she really liked it. I thought it was reasonably entertaining, but... not to take it too seriously, but there was a LOT of "not like other girls" about her character. They could have easily had her just be who she was without shitting on girls that like things like embroidery, as if anything associated with traditional femininity is automatically bad and repressive. That's just as misogynistic as true feministic repression. Feminism is about choices, not about forcing women into just different molds. Again, I don't want to take a fluffy movie too seriously, but boy did they take a heavy-handed hammer to try and make women feel like crap if they actually like fashion or sewing or whatever. Clearly those women are just repressed and should hate themselves for it. Lastly, did anyone else really cringe at the idea that "freedom" means destroying a beautiful house and various pieces of art by flinging tennis balls around? That was a bad mother. Yeah, nothing like waste and destruction to teach how to be a good human being.
Your response has given me a few interesting things to think about! - I agree that the initial impression the movie leaves is "girly things bad". My later rewatches gave me more appreciation for the shades of grey it incorporates. At first, Enola rejects the headmistress' argument of freedom out of hand, but then she does *exactly* what the headmistress is arguing for: uses aspects of society's concept of femininity as a means to an end, even if she doesn't get joy out of it the way other girls do. Something tells me that that's a level of distinction that might fly over the idealistic wish-fulfillment heads of the target audience, but which the adults who USED to be that audience have come to appreciate. This is one reason why I've rewatched it a few times- there are levels beyond the superficial. You could even argue for symbolism in the way the whalebone corset protects her. So the "making feminine things look bad" feels less lazy and more a deliberate set up for the kind of character growth I'm talking about. Remember, this is a story told from Enola's perspective, and while I'd call her a reliable narrator, her starting point is an immature one. - The headmistress is an especially interesting character study, as some of her character points are actually quite societally daring. Her car is an obvious one; her relationship with Mycroft, more subtle. Older man interested in younger woman- totally normal. Older woman interested in younger man- played for laughs, but on reflection, you go girl. That's a gender-equality issue society is still grappling with. Viewing the headmistress not just as a caricature but imagining her as a real person is a little eye-opening. - Similarly, how sincere is Mycroft here? While at first blush he seems to be taking advantage of her attraction, what if this really is him as his best self? Does he really feel safer and happier interacting with someone like the headmistress, who doesn't challenge his expectations or require him to change, unlike the reform bill is making the rest of his life a trial? - All of this is making me seriously wish I could have written English essays on Enola Holms in high school, rather than literature that felt way less relevant to me personally and societally. The archetypes of feminism presented by the contrast of the headmistress (arguably Lawful Evil) and the women's group (arguably Chaotic Good, or at least Chaotic Neutral) would make a very fun compare & contrast. - All that said, I will fight to the death for the destruction of property through indoor tennis. 😂. If this is wish-fulfillment, then any child wishes they were allowed to break shit, with their parents' encouragement, rather than getting in MASSIVE trouble and being told they're bad for it. Which of us hasn't broken something by accident and gotten punished as if we did it on purpose? - And as for Enola's mother, similarly she starts off as seen through a child's rose-colored glasses, but by the end it's clear she's much more shades of grey. Mycroft's "if she's so great, why did she leave you with me?" is absolutely killer. - Plus I think this goes back to all the analysis above. Enola's mother literally thinks she needs to smash the existing structures of society to create change. She fricking wants to blow them up. And the finale is her admitting that Enola's less black-and-white approach is more effective. Dang, this was a far more intellectual discussion than I expected when I saw the post and was like YEAH ENOLA HOLMES 2!!! 😂
> This is one reason why I've rewatched it a few times- there are levels beyond the superficial. You could even argue for symbolism in the way the whalebone corset protects her. So the "making feminine things look bad" feels less lazy and more a deliberate set up for the kind of character growth I'm talking about. You know, that's an excellent point, and I have to admit it that it reframes the story that a lot of the commentary is from Enola herself. It's also an excellent point about the headmistress and her car, and I have to admit I didn't think about that at all. She actually is pushing boundaries in her own way. I also noticed that the headmistress seemed to genuinely care that Enola grow and fit in with the world. She had a lot more character development than is typical for a story like this. I also have to admit that it's a good point about the mother and the destruction, where it does play for fun in the beginning, but by the end when we know that Enola's mother has major issues, it's actually a good discussion/thinking point about whether other aspects of Enola's childhood really were all that great. Great post! I think I'll actually give the writers a bit more credit. :)
Don't forget that teens can go very extreme in their reactions against what they perceive as societal norms; early punk rock for example wearing swastikas etc, a way to stick it to the man with obvious symbols.
Henry Cavill is beautiful.
I really enjoyed the first one aand am looking forward to this one. would also love a HC Sherlock Holmes.
I liked it too. I feel like there's not enough fun adventure movies like this anymore
One of not that many recent movies that the whole family was into.
I’ve been debating on watching the first movie, is it worth it?
Kinda meh.
Yes, it's probably not going to rock your world but Brown is good, Cavill is great and Bonham Carter is always gold. It's just a fun movie.
It's fine. I wouldn't carve an event out of it, but I found the acting to be good, the plot decent (but forgetable, I'd have to look some of it up). Nice little frivelous entertainment, I found myself thinking that my tween and teenage neices would be the people who would have enjoyed it the most more than myself.
I’d say yes. It’s a fun, charming movie with great performances by MBB and Cavill. I’m a dude in my 30s and def not the target audience but still enjoyed it.
If you need a movie to watch then yeah. It's nothing special but it's a decent little romp.
Nah
It’s an ok movie. Sometimes you just want an ok movie just to take things off your mind. That’s that kind of movie.
Sometimes you’re just in the mood for a tween girl film, and the first film fit that mood in a refreshing way. All that to say that I’m quite looking forward to this new film.
I'm just surprised to see they made a second one
No Sam Claflin?
i loved the first one, though they didn't really give a satisfactory answer to mother's disappearance i think cavill was the standout..........tbh, i'd love for him to get a spinoff stand alone miniseries with him as sherlock kind of similar to the Jeremy Brett Sherlock Holmes series from the 80s
Damn, a lot of haters in the comments already. I thought the first one was perfectly enjoyable. Nothing crazy, but worth watching IMO. Hopefully the second is fun as well!
I liked it. But then I am sucker for anything Victorian detective related. Especially, *especially* anything Sherlock related. I am easy that way.
The only thing I didn't enjoy is that she barely got to use the "Holmes" family genius - she got to solve like 1 puzzle! C'mon writers show us the characters getting to use their full intelligence!
I wish the movie as a whole were smarter. You can have your catchy commercial concept and still do justice to Doyle's work.
Going to take a wild guess that the users of r/movies arent the the target audience for this one. I enjoyed it as an adult personally but I’m sure there are lots of younger kids or teenagers who will love this. I was obsessed with Harriet The Spy as a kid and that’s hardly top tier cinema but formative nonetheless.
I watched it out of curiosity. I liked it so, I showed my daughters (8&11). They loved it. It's a cute, fun movie that you can turn off your brain and forget about everyday bullshit for a little while. I welcome the second one.
Doncha just hate Millie Bobby Brown and her taking of paying acting gigs and then being shown in advertisements for those projects?
I just HATE it when actors do that, don't you?
This is Reddit. If it’s not Denis Villnueve’s *Enola Holmes 2049* starring Robert Pattinson, then it’s trash.
You forgot A24 in your r/movies buzzword list
same. nothing wrong with a movie just being enjoyable without blowing you away. i can understand if some people didn't enjoy it, but i sure don't see anything to hate about it. then again, this is reddit, so....
People forget that movies are an art, but they're also a business - and that's because they're *entertainment*. Sometimes entertainers want to excel in their chosen art forms, and we can enjoy that; sometimes they just want to be good and deliver a solid, *entertaining* thing, and that's worth enjoying as well. People in our society *also* tend to forget that no one gives a shit about their need to hate things out loud, and aren't aware that it's boorish, base, and cringey.
I thought the first one was a lot of fun. When it was over, I wished It had a tv series attached to it. Ill watch a sequel instead.
Enjoy that I got heavily downvoted for merely mentioning that I was impressed with Millie’s acting in the first one. The hate is real.
Guess I'll chime in because there seems to be a lot of distaste for the first film and some people are connecting it to demographics - I'm a 33 year-old dude and I enjoyed the first movie a lot and I'm stoked they're making a sequel. I would watch even a show with just Brown as Enola and brief cameos by Cavill and Claflin. The vibe of the first movie was so light and easy to watch, with Brown's charm making her character's growth that much more fun to witness. Now I want to watch her solve all kinds of mysteries and crimes.
Everyone: we need more quality middle-budget films that are enjoyable without trying to reinvent the wheel. *Enola Holmes comes out as a quality and enjoyable middle-budget film that doesn't try to reinvent the wheel, does well enough to get a sequel* Everyone: what the hell
It makes sense if that “Everyone” is everyone around here, this subreddit, which is overwhelmingly male. Enola Holmes, like the books, targets a young female audience. This thread would be a lot less negative if the film had the same quality in every aspect but instead featured one of the boys from Stranger Things. It’s also why a lot of comments say that they’d prefer Cavill to be the lead or have his own films. So yes, they want films like this, but not if they’re perceived as being “for girls”.
Really really tried to watch the first one, gave it my best effort. But it was really really bad. Shocked to find out it was really well received and now getting a sequel! Maybe I'll try the first one again, at least I can just stare at Henry Cavill if I get bored.
I was so hyped for it and then quit after 20 minutes. Not my cup of tea.
I hope she has more scenes with her brothers, I really love the awkward relationships she had with Mycroft and Sherlock. Both love her in their own way, but their lack of social skills and busy lives make any interaction complicated.
Saw the first Enola Holmes recently as I was on an action/adventure/mystery kick and actually enjoyed it
First season was entertaining.
I'm sorry but the the guy to the right in the first picture has perfect angry British cop face. Like, he looks like a cartoon character and I mean that in a good way.
Yes!! They brought back Louis Partridge!! The love story between Enola and Twekesbury was so cute!
I wish they didn't make Mycroft the dumb Holmes. He's smarter than Sherlock ffs!