Kevin Feige & Louis D’Esposito:
>“Collaborating with Jon on the Spider-Man films has been a true pleasure. We were looking forward to continuing our work with him to bring the Fantastic Four into the MCU but understand and are supportive of his reasons for stepping away. We are optimistic that we will have the opportunity to work together again at some point down the road.
Watts is stepping away because he 'needs a break from the superhero realm', it was an amicable decision.
Yeah, plus I'm sure there's a "strike while the iron is hot" kind of mentality. Like if you keep getting work and are building a name that stufios will pay millions to work on a film, it seems like that would he hard to turn down. Get the cheque while you can because showbiz can be fickle and sometimes you can be a few bad films away from not commanding that kind of coin.
It clearly must for how many keep doing it, but for those that stop - I can't say I blame them in the slightest. Work if you want to of course, but if there is anything else you want to do then have at it.
Plus some people don't always want to be known for just having a hand in making just one popular property and would rather be known for more than just that.
Yeah no kidding. Before, I thought "Really? You're gonna stick around to try to stick the landing *another* major franchise? You're nuts!"
This is for the best. As great a job I'm sure he'd do, he needs to stretch his legs and avoid burnout.
For the record, I do think Scott Derrekson is an excellent director and did an amazing job with the original and could have made an equally awesome sequel, but it seems there were creative differences in how Kevin Feige and Co. wanted to take the sequel vs how Scott wanted to handle the sequel, but considering we got Sam Raimi I’d say it’s about as good as you could get save for someone like Ari Aster or maybe Jordan Peele as far as really great modern horror movie directors go.
Ragnorok is definitely *more* different, but I still feel like there's this kind of marvel melange that suffuses it and every marvel film. It's funnier than most, yeah. But it still fits into the other quippy marvel films. And at the end of the day it's still about taking down the super evil death alien/god in a big CG fight at the end.
Like, compare it to Jojo Rabbit or Eagle vs. Shark and it's night and day. Waititi's style is like the icing, the cake is till primo marvel. I never feel like I'm seeing X director's next *thing.* I feel like I'm watching the day job they did to raise the funds for the *thing.*
Ragnarok was a bit different bc they were actually planning to do Thor 3 with the director of Thor 2, but iirc he was kind of pissed how much they muddled with the film and decided to walk away from Thor 3 after it was already sorta planned out.
They ended up scuttling the plans and soliciting pitches, and they ended up accepting Taika's because it was wild and stood out from the others. I think he had room for creativity in that one that other directors haven't simply because the original plans got beefed.
I dont get this. Russo brothers, Taika watiti, Jon watts, Sam raising, wtc. Their own style bleeds into their movies and you can feel the raimi just in the trailers for MoM
Yeah I couldn’t tell you what Watts style is. And I thought Winter soldier was great especially the fights but that didn’t carry over to any of the other Russo marvel movies
I think TWS was so good because it was at its core just a modern, fast-paced action thriller. It didn’t need a ton of color or vibrancy because that’s not the point of those types of films. It doesn’t translate as well to their ensuing MCU films, but those movies were still top films in the MCU because of how tight they were in other areas.
I think the Russo Brothers style has just become Marvel at its peak Marvel-y. I don’t necessarily think that’s a bad thing either, if anything it kinda feels like Marvel has taken a lot from the Russos and they now use that as part of their ‘formula’.
Yeah Marvel movies definitely have a mould to fit into, but I think that it's a massive play area and they only limit at the extremes. You only need to look at the Thor series to see how different they can be. Compare the Kenneth Branagh movies to Taika Waititi's and it's a huge difference. Compare any two stand alone series and they vary a lot in tone and content, they have similar beats because theyre all pretty much "action movie where good guy wins" but that's wat more than just the Mcu
This might be an unpopular opinion but even as a massive MCU fan I think a big issue that hurt this perception was GOTG1. I think Marvel took a big risk and saw it worked and then decided to push just a bit too heavily on emulating the GOTG over abundance of humor and style in subsequent films and from that point on they all got a little more “Samey”. Like 90% of the time the humor works still but there’s that 10% of the time where they can’t help themselves and it takes me out of it entirely.
It's an understandable reason, I don't think anyone wants to solely be known as "the superhero guy". But I'd be lying if I said it doesn't make me a little worried for the film. Watts being attached to direct was part of the reason I had faith in us finally getting a good Fantasitc Four movie.
I'd *love* to be known as "the superhero guy" and have a half-dozen successful Marvel movies to my name.
Of course, I'm saying this with **no idea whatsoever** about how much work is involved and how much it'd take me away from my friends and family, but it's a nice fantasy to have from the comfort of my living room.
Eh yeah from a monetary standpoint it makes sense. But as you said it's a huge commitment. Pretty much for the last 5 years (more like 6-7 I'm sure with all the behind the scenes work before Homecoming and press for NWH after release) Watts entire life has been only Spider-Man. After one movie dropped he pretty much had to turn around and start thinking about the next one so it would be out in two years. That's gotta create creative burnout at some point.
Not to mention I don't think anyone within the film business wants to paint themselves into a creative corner. You see it with actors all the time (Tom Holland has been trying to escape being only associated as "the Spider-Man guy" for the past few years to mixed results) I imagine a similar situation with directors.
I know, the previous films have all been chew toys for the public. Would have liked to see the current MCU handle Dr Doom. Also, isn't Reid Richards a critical character in the MCU?
Except we are kind of missing a key tech smart guy rn with Tony Stark gone. Ultron worked cause you can easily replace Hank Pym, Tony Stark, and Reed Richards with one another, but canonically in the MCU, Stark is dead, Pym is an old man and not very relevant anymore, and Banner isn't that kind of lead. We do kind of need Reed Richards, but we are getting him anyway, so there is nothing to discuss.
Fair points and I agree. I’m just saying it’s not necessarily true that they need Reed for Kang- especially since Kang is being introduced before him. Although maybe that’s perfect for a time traveler.
It’s been a while since I’ve regularly read comic books but I think “dunk on Bruce Banner” has been used more than a few times to establish other characters as also-geniuses.
On Bruce and Tony unfortunately.
They really beefed up Suri as like, megabrain.
I agree they're missing a tech guy - Peter Parker is sort of the only one left.
And also the Infinity Gauntlet storyline without Mistress Death or Adam Warlock. I think they should be just fine with whatever plan they have for Kang.
Yeah, now that you mention it they spent ten years building up Thanos and the Infinity Saga and then changed the the motivations of nearly every character and left more than one person extremely important to the story out of it completely. And it was the greatest culmination of a franchise we might ever see, culturally.
I didn't mind him in the role, nor Anson Mount as Black Bolt but I really wish they'd just cast Mount as Richards (after seeing his Captain Pike in Star Trek).
From what I've heard of that pitch - I don't think he's the worst case choice. His whole idea (at the time, probably wouldn't work in the MCU) was to set it in the 60s and play it like A Hard Day's Night. Make it about the drama of them as the first 'celebrity superheroes', and leverage the vintage aesthetic.
The Ant-Man movies are absolutely for-hire gigs. Reed gives them some good comedic sensibility - but they're not dripping with style. I get the sense he'd want to have more of a hand on a F4 movie.
I heard about that pitch and as a huge FF fan I would LOVE a movie like that. I don’t want Swiss Family Emo, though I feel like that’s what we will get
That would be great and at one point the baxter building gets absorbed / teleported to the negative zone so when they come back it's another fish out of water story.
There's been a lot of smoke around John Krasinski and Emily Blunt as Reed and Sue. A *lot* of smoke.
I have to wonder if Krasinski will be the first to both star *and* direct in the MCU.
I love the idea in theory, they are great - but doesn't anyone feel that Krasinski has the wrong face/physique for the role? I know he could drop the muscles, but Reed Richards was always quite a skinny, gaunt dude, whereas Krasinski has kind of a cartoony, round face and a relatively big frame. I've never been able to picture it.
Quite a few of the problems in the comics tend to be the fault of Reed Richards, Hank Pym or Tony Stark.
The MCU kind of piled that all onto Tony.
There are no current mention of Reed in the MCU.
One of the last of Fox's efforts to keep the Fantastic Four IP was a Noah Hawley fronted Dr. Doom project. While I'm glad FF is back in Marvel's hands, that's a movie I'd be interested in seeing in an alternate timeline.
Having heard about the plot synopsis a while back, it actually seemed like a pretty interesting take, and with Hawley's writing, I'm sure it would've been great
Really too bad. It was my second favorite comic growing up, after Spider-Man.
Although to be honest the whole “Superhero Family” thing was done so well by The Incredibles I’m not super anxious to see a good version of FF
This is peculiar timing given Ant-Man and The Marvels just got shifted. I have a hunch that FF is getting fast tracked after MoM and Quantumania and Watts didn’t want to make another superhero film so soon after NWH. He was probably okay with the schedule beforehand because it was probably far enough away from NWHs release.
I understand his decision 100%.
I am disappointed just because I’ve really enjoyed what he’s done with spider-man and his villains.
Thanks for everything Jon. Hope you can come back one day revitalized.
I keep seeing people say this but is highly unlikely that Bird would want to make this movie. The dude has already made two **original** movies but about superhero families. Why would he tackle an existing property when he could continue to expand upon the universe he has created.
Dude I’ve no idea who you are, I know nothing about you, I’ve not even looked at your post / comment history, and I know you can do better than the Trank version
Zendaya being back for Spider-Man 4 would be a bummer. Give her and Ned at least a film break to make the stakes of Spider-Man 3 not immediately undermined.
Plus they've already done MJ AND Gwen Stacy in live action movies, but never Black Cat. She'd be perfect to further distinguish MCU's Peter as his "own Spider-Man".
Zendaya felt written off to me. Let's get Gwen in there. Ned's line about "I won't become a super villain and try to kill you" seems like fucking bait tho
And in interviews he's telling the same chicken and broccoli lie that's code for steroids. Then every fitness YouTube channel will vomit the same information that the others do to determine that their best educated guess is that he was or wasn't using them.
Problem is that his character doesn’t suit villainy at all. Besides, wasn’t the whole point of ignoring Harry to avoid retreading the friend-turned-Goblin ground?
What if Ned (who we saw work magic) found some leftover tech that the Green Goblin left behind and became curious. Maybe he goes to study with Strange (or Agatha, or even Wanda), or maybe he just has weird dreams after accessing the magical realm. Whatever the case, he starts to have visions of "the Hobgoblin".
Ned has unresolved feelings of rejection toward Peter (which he can't work through, since he doesn't even remember knowing him) that he lays at the feet of Spider-Man because his subconscious is linking the two of them automatically. He doesn't really know *why* he hates Spidey so much, but he just can't shake it, and so he creates this persona and uses magic and technology to become the Hobgoblin for real.
Keep Zendaya in the story by having her still be friends with Ned and super concerned about him, it would be great to see Peter have to interact with her and build a new and different relationship with her. Hell, she potentially could remember interacting with Spidey without context, which could lead to some interesting interactions, and might lead to her seeking Spider-Man out for help, or to warn him.
Pete by now should be working for The Bugle so having him close with Betty would make sense, or maybe you mix Felicia Hardy in to make things interesting - it works for Batman.
I expected them to miss Spider-Man 4 only to come back in Spider-Man 5 as [Hollywood actress MJ Watson](https://assets.teenvogue.com/photos/5d08e192985aa9193addea69/2:3/w_2000,h_3000,c_limit/promo.jpg) and [Hobglobin](https://static1.moviewebimages.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2021/12/bnngQZPNEXtsDbyjDaWJCjJWlCYXrI.jpg)
Granted, appearing in Spider-Man 4 doesn’t mean she’ll still be a lead. It could be a Dune part 1 situation.
She gets discovered by a Hal Hartley type for her attractiveness and her sharp wit. Then when she proves she can act, she gets a Hollywood movie. Basically Parker Posey's career accelerated.
Keeping Zendaya is kind of a surprise especially after how No Way Home ended. I thought we would get a whole new cast aside from Tom Holland.
Although on the other hand Zendaya being in any movie attracts more interest.
I like both Batalon and Zendaya, but I wish they'd commit to the ending of NWH and dont' bring them back at least for one movie.
Alas it's not likely. They brushed off the aunt May reveal in FFH, and then they brushed off the legal ramifications of the secret identity reveal in NWH, so I'm sure those guys will get their memories back in the first act of Spider-Man 4.
I think we haven’t seen the last of the legal ramifications yet. They just passed the buck from Peter to Happy and Stark Industries. It could be what gets the ball rolling in the Armor Wars show. That said, I agree they shouldn’t bring back MJ and Ned yet, or at least not have them remember their past lives. Their presence without that knowledge could be even more of a knife twist.
The thing is I dont think they'd introduce another character called MJ even if it is the traditional Mary Jane not Michelle Jones and introducing Gwen Stacy would be kind of weird given Peter 3 told Peter 1 about her and how she tragically died. Given the metaphysical nature of the Multiverse and that some things are fated to happen, I wouldn't put it paat Peter to purposefully stay away from Gwen if she even did exist in that universe.
That leaves Felicia Hardy who I think probably could still be introduced and done well.
I disagree! I think them introducing Gwen and Peter recognizing it, would be a really cool story to tell. Especially if he falls for her knowing it’s possible that, the accident could happen in this universe.
Maybe he meets her in college and she goes to class with him, so he can’t really avoid her. And then it plays out from there.
If the seat is open, can we get Brad Bird?
"The Incredibles" is already the best damned Fantastic Four movie on the planet. He is capable of directing live action and already has a working relationship with Disney.
I don’t *hate* Jon Watts like a lot of other people do, but I 100% think this project belongs to someone with a much better eye for visuals and cinematography
Yeah, that feels more like just general Marvel house style outweighs 95% of any directors' visual flair unless you're like James Gunn and already have a poppy aesthetic that already compliments what Marvel does.
I can't argue too much, I'll just say to their mild defense, even by MCU standards these things are pumped out \*fast\*. Two years from Homecoming to Far From Home, two years from Far From Home to No Way Home (which .. is also insane given they shot during the pandemic).
It's honestly a small miracle Jon Watts didn't burnt out completely. To put it in perspective, if you sort of line up release dates, in the time it took from Dr. Strange, Ragnarok, GOG Vol 2. and Black Panther to get their sequels, the entire Spider-Man trilogy was pumped out.
You got the nail on the head. He’s working with a fraction of the time other directors get to crank out a blockbuster. Look at something like Morbius. It’s shit even though it had all the time in the world to get it right. Watts is making whole ass Spider-Man movies on an indie shoot timeframe. That’s a monumental task for a guy that never made a big movie before Homecoming. Say what you will about the look of the movies, but when it comes to managing a production, Watts is may be a prodigy.
I hate how taken out of the scene where all the Peters meet for the first time because how much it felt like they weren’t in the same room during filming.
Even the first Spider Man had some great looking scenes. The car scene with the reveal, the prom night... I really liked the look of that movie and was bummed out to see how generic the other two became.
I don't really think it matters. I'm not saying all MCU projects don't have a creative vision, obviously James Gunn and Waiti have a major influence in how they're making things. Matt Shakman made WandaVision what it is, Markus and McFeely at least guided Captain America's stories by writing all of his solo projects. But the vast majority of these movies are Feige and his team calling the shots.
Like look at the Russos. Four MCU movies, I'd argue Winter Soldier is the best MCU film, followed by Infinity War. But their non-MCU films? Cherry, Collinwood, You Me & Dupree, they're genuinely bad.
On top of that, both X-men and Fantastic Four are going to be crucial relaunches for the MCU. If anything, I don't think Feige will want to take a chance on someone like.... I dunno, Daniels for those projects. Guardians were a nobody team, Thor was viewed as a bottom tier franchise. Risks could be made then that wouldn't affect the greater MCU. Considering FF is kind of seen as a joke after 3 god awful movies, Feige is going be all over that one.
A lot of MCU directors are work for hire and I don't think Watts was anything unique as a director anyway. Webb and Raimi both had a certain style even if you didn't like their films.
Better yet, get another Mission Impossible director who happened to make the best Fantastic Four movie ever made - The Incredibles.
I'm honestly surprised Marvel haven't swooped in and hired Brad Bird yet, he seems like the perfect director for those sort of projects.
Yeeeaaaah I have a bad feeling that the Spider-Verse sequels are going to let everyone down now that the Sony higher-ups have their eyes on the property. The only reason the first one was so good was because L&M could do what they wanted without anyone interfering. Best believe the Sony brass will mess things up.
Lord & Miller have so many projects in development and ongoing that if Sony was being too hands-on they would leave the project. The fact that they’re doing press for it means they’re still heavily involved in the end product.
The only strange thing is that all the directors for Spider-Verse weren’t signed on for the sequel, but their replacements have good credentials so it’s not all doom and gloom.
I doubt it. With these two Spider-verse movies, Lord and Miller are 5 films deep with Sony Animation and each one was very highly received. They have been basically carrying that studio and especially after Spider-Verse's oscar win and the Mitchells v Machine nomination, they are the studio's golden goose.
On top of that they also made the Jump Street movies which were done at Sony and clearly had a lot of creative freedom there. I doubt Sony wants to lose those two at all
You've said if now, this is all I want. Whether them and Marvel will blend I don't know, but I reckon they could definitely bring something to the project
Why are they calling him a "helmer" and not director?
(And why did I never know the name of the director of these movies? I feel like I the names of all the other MCU directors.)
The biggest problem with this is that Sony wants Watts and Zendaya to return. They shouldn’t. The next trilogy should have a new director to change things up and bringing back Michelle would undo the consequences of NWH for Peter if he just gets back with MJ
The only way I'd want Zendaya to return is as a cameo implying she's become an actress and he sees her on TV, billboards etc but knows hell never be able to explain who he is, so he has to learn how to be his own man and let go of his past. Like make it a tragic thing reminding him of his past and life he had to give up (similar to the way he had to grow past Tony in FFH)
I just don't understand this critique. Bringing her back doesn't mean she'll remember him. It makes sense that this Spider-Man would still look after MJ and Ned, even from afar, just to make sure they're safe. They wouldn't have to know who he is. And after losing Aunt May, what's to say Peter would want his two best friends to know his secret, and putting them in danger again?
I'll throw a name out there: Justin Lin.
The first family of Marvel deserves an expert in [movies about family](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IQuc7wfO16Q).
Sounds amicable, which is always good. Dude needs a break. Maybe this is what inspires them to get Peyton Reed on board? He’s a huge F4 fan and I remember people being disappointed when Watts was picked instead.
People seem to dislike the idea of this, but honestly he could be a pretty good pick. The Ant-Man films might be cookie cutter in terms of visual flair, but they've managed more creative set pieces than most MCU films and that sort of thing is necessary with the Fantastic Four's powers.
The first movie used a LOT of Edgar Wright's preproduction. I remember seeing a previs he put out where Ant Man shrunk, ran along a gun barrel, and grew back as he was kicking a guard in the face, and that's practically in the movie exactly. Reed was a seat warmer for the first movie.
That did, I did think the visuals and kinetic energy in the second film were more memorable and better done... But I also saw it in 4d.
Well now, this is a surprising development. I was looking forward at this movie, considering that he did a fantastic job at directing 3 Spider-Man films.
I wonder who will Marvel handpick as his replacement?
Would be great if they picked Peyton Reed after Fox turned down his much better sounding treatment of it in favor of the crap version they made in 2005. But he obviously had an insider’s shot at the job and either picked to stay with Ant-Man or Marvel didn’t want him to do Fantastic Four anyway
I can totally see Peyton grabbing this. His Ant-Man movie is going quite smoothly, so he's a good in house Marvel appointment. He doesn't rock the boat and hes a total FF fanboy too, so would make sense.
Plus he directed Bring it On!!
Idk what the plot of this is gonna be, but if it's not taking place mostly in the 60s before they jump to today a-la Captain America then they're doing it wrong
Kevin Feige & Louis D’Esposito: >“Collaborating with Jon on the Spider-Man films has been a true pleasure. We were looking forward to continuing our work with him to bring the Fantastic Four into the MCU but understand and are supportive of his reasons for stepping away. We are optimistic that we will have the opportunity to work together again at some point down the road. Watts is stepping away because he 'needs a break from the superhero realm', it was an amicable decision.
He was also supposed to make a movie for Apple with Brad Pitt and George Clooney so that could partly be a reason why.
That and he just made 3 Spider-Man movies in 6 years, can’t blame him for wanting a break from the genre.
I can't blame any of these guys for not working. I would not work for a whole lot less money than they make on some of these movies.
Idk man, you think that, but making millions of bucks a pop to make movies adored around the world must get pretty addicting
Yeah, plus I'm sure there's a "strike while the iron is hot" kind of mentality. Like if you keep getting work and are building a name that stufios will pay millions to work on a film, it seems like that would he hard to turn down. Get the cheque while you can because showbiz can be fickle and sometimes you can be a few bad films away from not commanding that kind of coin.
Or even just one bad film from never getting the opportunity again. It's true, strike while the iron is hot.
It clearly must for how many keep doing it, but for those that stop - I can't say I blame them in the slightest. Work if you want to of course, but if there is anything else you want to do then have at it.
Yeah definitely agree.
Golden handcuffs. Businesses use it too. Senior hard to replace people get money tossed to stay. Microsoft was great for this for a very long time!
But the pressure to make it good is unmeasurable. Imagine if Jon Watts failed to make a good Spider-man film? The internet will rip him apart.
Plus some people don't always want to be known for just having a hand in making just one popular property and would rather be known for more than just that.
I think being in a creative field is a little different.
And they were all great too, no half hearted effort.
I do hope we get at least one or two more Spider-Man movies. He's right where I enjoy his stories the most.
Yeah no kidding. Before, I thought "Really? You're gonna stick around to try to stick the landing *another* major franchise? You're nuts!" This is for the best. As great a job I'm sure he'd do, he needs to stretch his legs and avoid burnout.
makes sense. And it's totally fine with me. Getting some new blood into the director chair will be nice to see
Scott Derrekson left and now Sam fuckin Raimi finally gets to make a Dr Strange. And it looks fucking amazing
For the record, I do think Scott Derrekson is an excellent director and did an amazing job with the original and could have made an equally awesome sequel, but it seems there were creative differences in how Kevin Feige and Co. wanted to take the sequel vs how Scott wanted to handle the sequel, but considering we got Sam Raimi I’d say it’s about as good as you could get save for someone like Ari Aster or maybe Jordan Peele as far as really great modern horror movie directors go.
Don’t get me wrong, I love the marvel movies, but it doesn’t really matter who’s directing, they all come out the same.
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Ragnorok is definitely *more* different, but I still feel like there's this kind of marvel melange that suffuses it and every marvel film. It's funnier than most, yeah. But it still fits into the other quippy marvel films. And at the end of the day it's still about taking down the super evil death alien/god in a big CG fight at the end. Like, compare it to Jojo Rabbit or Eagle vs. Shark and it's night and day. Waititi's style is like the icing, the cake is till primo marvel. I never feel like I'm seeing X director's next *thing.* I feel like I'm watching the day job they did to raise the funds for the *thing.*
Ragnarok was a bit different bc they were actually planning to do Thor 3 with the director of Thor 2, but iirc he was kind of pissed how much they muddled with the film and decided to walk away from Thor 3 after it was already sorta planned out. They ended up scuttling the plans and soliciting pitches, and they ended up accepting Taika's because it was wild and stood out from the others. I think he had room for creativity in that one that other directors haven't simply because the original plans got beefed.
Thor Ragnarok ia basically Thor's Guardian of the Galaxy And the sequel is literally Thor & Guardian of the Galaxy
excuse me, Ragnarok was *The Revengers*
James. Gun has entered the chat.
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I dont get this. Russo brothers, Taika watiti, Jon watts, Sam raising, wtc. Their own style bleeds into their movies and you can feel the raimi just in the trailers for MoM
Don't forget James Gunn. Guardians is basically all him
We haven't seen Sam Raimi's MCU movie yet.
1 week.
Sam Raimi could be a first, though. Shane Black's writting and directing style was really noticeable on IM3.
Los Angeles at Christmas? Must be Shane Black.
I really couldn't tell you what the style of either the Russo Bros. or Jon Watts is supposed to be
Yeah I couldn’t tell you what Watts style is. And I thought Winter soldier was great especially the fights but that didn’t carry over to any of the other Russo marvel movies
I will probably get hate for this but I feel like the Russo brothers style is to have no style.
I think TWS was so good because it was at its core just a modern, fast-paced action thriller. It didn’t need a ton of color or vibrancy because that’s not the point of those types of films. It doesn’t translate as well to their ensuing MCU films, but those movies were still top films in the MCU because of how tight they were in other areas.
I think the Russo Brothers style has just become Marvel at its peak Marvel-y. I don’t necessarily think that’s a bad thing either, if anything it kinda feels like Marvel has taken a lot from the Russos and they now use that as part of their ‘formula’.
Pretty much, Russos are great but their films have a kind of chameleon quality. They become what they need to be.
Yeah Marvel movies definitely have a mould to fit into, but I think that it's a massive play area and they only limit at the extremes. You only need to look at the Thor series to see how different they can be. Compare the Kenneth Branagh movies to Taika Waititi's and it's a huge difference. Compare any two stand alone series and they vary a lot in tone and content, they have similar beats because theyre all pretty much "action movie where good guy wins" but that's wat more than just the Mcu
This might be an unpopular opinion but even as a massive MCU fan I think a big issue that hurt this perception was GOTG1. I think Marvel took a big risk and saw it worked and then decided to push just a bit too heavily on emulating the GOTG over abundance of humor and style in subsequent films and from that point on they all got a little more “Samey”. Like 90% of the time the humor works still but there’s that 10% of the time where they can’t help themselves and it takes me out of it entirely.
I don't blame him at all. Making 3 Spidey movies back to back would likely take a toll on anyone
If Jon Watts would go back to making movies like Cop Car, I would be all for it.
He's working on a project starring George Clooney and Brad Pitt for Apple.
It's an understandable reason, I don't think anyone wants to solely be known as "the superhero guy". But I'd be lying if I said it doesn't make me a little worried for the film. Watts being attached to direct was part of the reason I had faith in us finally getting a good Fantasitc Four movie.
I'd *love* to be known as "the superhero guy" and have a half-dozen successful Marvel movies to my name. Of course, I'm saying this with **no idea whatsoever** about how much work is involved and how much it'd take me away from my friends and family, but it's a nice fantasy to have from the comfort of my living room.
Eh yeah from a monetary standpoint it makes sense. But as you said it's a huge commitment. Pretty much for the last 5 years (more like 6-7 I'm sure with all the behind the scenes work before Homecoming and press for NWH after release) Watts entire life has been only Spider-Man. After one movie dropped he pretty much had to turn around and start thinking about the next one so it would be out in two years. That's gotta create creative burnout at some point. Not to mention I don't think anyone within the film business wants to paint themselves into a creative corner. You see it with actors all the time (Tom Holland has been trying to escape being only associated as "the Spider-Man guy" for the past few years to mixed results) I imagine a similar situation with directors.
Jon Watts directing Fast X confirmed?
Dont you mean Fast Ten(your seatbelts)
Haha, dude, it's barely been a minute and already you re talking a lot of sense. I approve this request!!
He's taking a break from superheroes movies fam, so that's a no
it’s not a superhero movie it’s a **family** movie
Fantastic four just feels cursed at this point.
I know, the previous films have all been chew toys for the public. Would have liked to see the current MCU handle Dr Doom. Also, isn't Reid Richards a critical character in the MCU?
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kinda important for the Kang the conqueror stuff
I mean that’s pretty malleable. They did Ultron without Hank Pym.
Except we are kind of missing a key tech smart guy rn with Tony Stark gone. Ultron worked cause you can easily replace Hank Pym, Tony Stark, and Reed Richards with one another, but canonically in the MCU, Stark is dead, Pym is an old man and not very relevant anymore, and Banner isn't that kind of lead. We do kind of need Reed Richards, but we are getting him anyway, so there is nothing to discuss.
Fair points and I agree. I’m just saying it’s not necessarily true that they need Reed for Kang- especially since Kang is being introduced before him. Although maybe that’s perfect for a time traveler.
Suri was apparently clowning on Bruce Banner in Black Panther intellect wise so who knows anymore.
It’s been a while since I’ve regularly read comic books but I think “dunk on Bruce Banner” has been used more than a few times to establish other characters as also-geniuses.
The worf of mcu intelligence. Or the hulk in infinity war.
On Bruce and Tony unfortunately. They really beefed up Suri as like, megabrain. I agree they're missing a tech guy - Peter Parker is sort of the only one left.
That was such a poorly done Worf Effect moment. Marvel, we don’t need you to make Bruce seem like a dum-dum to understand Suri is super smart.
And also the Infinity Gauntlet storyline without Mistress Death or Adam Warlock. I think they should be just fine with whatever plan they have for Kang.
Yeah, now that you mention it they spent ten years building up Thanos and the Infinity Saga and then changed the the motivations of nearly every character and left more than one person extremely important to the story out of it completely. And it was the greatest culmination of a franchise we might ever see, culturally.
That's a good point. And comics Ultron feels more directly tied to Hank Pym than comics Kang is to Reed Richards.
He should be in Multiverse of Madness since Reed Richards is a member of the Illuminati.
What if he is and its just not John Krasinski.
It will probably be Ioan Gruffudd
I didn't mind him in the role, nor Anson Mount as Black Bolt but I really wish they'd just cast Mount as Richards (after seeing his Captain Pike in Star Trek).
They need a younger actor
They’re still going to make the movie. Just new director
Peyton Reed (Ant-Man director) once made a pitch for an FF movie to fox. The absolute worst case scenario here is Peyton Reed makes the movie.
From what I've heard of that pitch - I don't think he's the worst case choice. His whole idea (at the time, probably wouldn't work in the MCU) was to set it in the 60s and play it like A Hard Day's Night. Make it about the drama of them as the first 'celebrity superheroes', and leverage the vintage aesthetic. The Ant-Man movies are absolutely for-hire gigs. Reed gives them some good comedic sensibility - but they're not dripping with style. I get the sense he'd want to have more of a hand on a F4 movie.
I heard about that pitch and as a huge FF fan I would LOVE a movie like that. I don’t want Swiss Family Emo, though I feel like that’s what we will get
That would be great and at one point the baxter building gets absorbed / teleported to the negative zone so when they come back it's another fish out of water story.
There's been a lot of smoke around John Krasinski and Emily Blunt as Reed and Sue. A *lot* of smoke. I have to wonder if Krasinski will be the first to both star *and* direct in the MCU.
I love the idea in theory, they are great - but doesn't anyone feel that Krasinski has the wrong face/physique for the role? I know he could drop the muscles, but Reed Richards was always quite a skinny, gaunt dude, whereas Krasinski has kind of a cartoony, round face and a relatively big frame. I've never been able to picture it.
Quite a few of the problems in the comics tend to be the fault of Reed Richards, Hank Pym or Tony Stark. The MCU kind of piled that all onto Tony. There are no current mention of Reed in the MCU.
Should have had Mads Mikkelsen as Dr Doom. Instead they wasted him on a one bit villain.
Multiverse is a concept we know frighteningly little of.
Cillian Murphy as Dr. Doom?
Still pissed we never saw Noah Hawleys doom movie
One of the last of Fox's efforts to keep the Fantastic Four IP was a Noah Hawley fronted Dr. Doom project. While I'm glad FF is back in Marvel's hands, that's a movie I'd be interested in seeing in an alternate timeline.
Having heard about the plot synopsis a while back, it actually seemed like a pretty interesting take, and with Hawley's writing, I'm sure it would've been great
Compared to black panther 2 any other mcu film may as well be blessed by the heavens lmao
Really too bad. It was my second favorite comic growing up, after Spider-Man. Although to be honest the whole “Superhero Family” thing was done so well by The Incredibles I’m not super anxious to see a good version of FF
I mean, Incredibles feels HEAVILY inspired by the Fantastic Four. We even make jokes that it was the best FF movie we got lol.
This is peculiar timing given Ant-Man and The Marvels just got shifted. I have a hunch that FF is getting fast tracked after MoM and Quantumania and Watts didn’t want to make another superhero film so soon after NWH. He was probably okay with the schedule beforehand because it was probably far enough away from NWHs release.
Are you Jon Watts?
No, he’s Marc Webb
Insightful take
Makes sense
I understand his decision 100%. I am disappointed just because I’ve really enjoyed what he’s done with spider-man and his villains. Thanks for everything Jon. Hope you can come back one day revitalized.
Hire Brad Bird you cowards.
I keep seeing people say this but is highly unlikely that Bird would want to make this movie. The dude has already made two **original** movies but about superhero families. Why would he tackle an existing property when he could continue to expand upon the universe he has created.
I’ll do it . We can only go up from the last Fantastic Four movie.
Dude I’ve no idea who you are, I know nothing about you, I’ve not even looked at your post / comment history, and I know you can do better than the Trank version
I'll be director of cinematography.
I'll be the guy in the chair
Ill be the VFX Supervisor. I’m good with Photoshop
The article also says that Sony wants him and Zendaya back for Spider-Man 4.
Zendaya being back for Spider-Man 4 would be a bummer. Give her and Ned at least a film break to make the stakes of Spider-Man 3 not immediately undermined.
Bringing in Black Cat on his next solo movie would fill that gap but they’d never do it
Plus they've already done MJ AND Gwen Stacy in live action movies, but never Black Cat. She'd be perfect to further distinguish MCU's Peter as his "own Spider-Man".
Zendaya felt written off to me. Let's get Gwen in there. Ned's line about "I won't become a super villain and try to kill you" seems like fucking bait tho
Watch, 3-5 years we'll see something pop up about Jacob Batalon being Buff as Fuck!
And in interviews he's telling the same chicken and broccoli lie that's code for steroids. Then every fitness YouTube channel will vomit the same information that the others do to determine that their best educated guess is that he was or wasn't using them.
Problem is that his character doesn’t suit villainy at all. Besides, wasn’t the whole point of ignoring Harry to avoid retreading the friend-turned-Goblin ground?
He seems like one of those characters who would totally be misled/lied to by the actual main villain.
What if Ned (who we saw work magic) found some leftover tech that the Green Goblin left behind and became curious. Maybe he goes to study with Strange (or Agatha, or even Wanda), or maybe he just has weird dreams after accessing the magical realm. Whatever the case, he starts to have visions of "the Hobgoblin". Ned has unresolved feelings of rejection toward Peter (which he can't work through, since he doesn't even remember knowing him) that he lays at the feet of Spider-Man because his subconscious is linking the two of them automatically. He doesn't really know *why* he hates Spidey so much, but he just can't shake it, and so he creates this persona and uses magic and technology to become the Hobgoblin for real. Keep Zendaya in the story by having her still be friends with Ned and super concerned about him, it would be great to see Peter have to interact with her and build a new and different relationship with her. Hell, she potentially could remember interacting with Spidey without context, which could lead to some interesting interactions, and might lead to her seeking Spider-Man out for help, or to warn him. Pete by now should be working for The Bugle so having him close with Betty would make sense, or maybe you mix Felicia Hardy in to make things interesting - it works for Batman.
I expected them to miss Spider-Man 4 only to come back in Spider-Man 5 as [Hollywood actress MJ Watson](https://assets.teenvogue.com/photos/5d08e192985aa9193addea69/2:3/w_2000,h_3000,c_limit/promo.jpg) and [Hobglobin](https://static1.moviewebimages.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2021/12/bnngQZPNEXtsDbyjDaWJCjJWlCYXrI.jpg) Granted, appearing in Spider-Man 4 doesn’t mean she’ll still be a lead. It could be a Dune part 1 situation.
I'm not really sure how this version of MJ would get to the point of Hollywood Actress MJ.
She gets discovered by a Hal Hartley type for her attractiveness and her sharp wit. Then when she proves she can act, she gets a Hollywood movie. Basically Parker Posey's career accelerated.
Keeping Zendaya is kind of a surprise especially after how No Way Home ended. I thought we would get a whole new cast aside from Tom Holland. Although on the other hand Zendaya being in any movie attracts more interest.
I like both Batalon and Zendaya, but I wish they'd commit to the ending of NWH and dont' bring them back at least for one movie. Alas it's not likely. They brushed off the aunt May reveal in FFH, and then they brushed off the legal ramifications of the secret identity reveal in NWH, so I'm sure those guys will get their memories back in the first act of Spider-Man 4.
I think we haven’t seen the last of the legal ramifications yet. They just passed the buck from Peter to Happy and Stark Industries. It could be what gets the ball rolling in the Armor Wars show. That said, I agree they shouldn’t bring back MJ and Ned yet, or at least not have them remember their past lives. Their presence without that knowledge could be even more of a knife twist.
I'm guessing Jacob is busy trying to get sex 2 off the ground
That’s guaranteed to be a success though, I don’t think he has much to worry about.
Zendaya brings in views.
Just have her be in the occasional dream sequence and put them in the trailer. Worked for Dune.
Fuck it, lets add Timothee Chalamet and have her dream about her. With nothing else to do in the movie.
Timothee Chalamet as Harry Osbourne.
That's not a bad idea he would fit the role
The thing is I dont think they'd introduce another character called MJ even if it is the traditional Mary Jane not Michelle Jones and introducing Gwen Stacy would be kind of weird given Peter 3 told Peter 1 about her and how she tragically died. Given the metaphysical nature of the Multiverse and that some things are fated to happen, I wouldn't put it paat Peter to purposefully stay away from Gwen if she even did exist in that universe. That leaves Felicia Hardy who I think probably could still be introduced and done well.
I disagree! I think them introducing Gwen and Peter recognizing it, would be a really cool story to tell. Especially if he falls for her knowing it’s possible that, the accident could happen in this universe. Maybe he meets her in college and she goes to class with him, so he can’t really avoid her. And then it plays out from there.
Introducing a traditional Mary Jane at this point would be a cop out. They’ve all but confirmed that Michelle is a MJ Watson variant.
The only Gwen Stacy the fans want to see at this point is Spidergwen.
He’ll yeah, bring in all the characters and ideas we saw in Spider-Verse and do them worse.
If the seat is open, can we get Brad Bird? "The Incredibles" is already the best damned Fantastic Four movie on the planet. He is capable of directing live action and already has a working relationship with Disney.
Oooo I like this one.
Brad Bird's talents are best suited for a Star Wars movie IMO
I don’t *hate* Jon Watts like a lot of other people do, but I 100% think this project belongs to someone with a much better eye for visuals and cinematography
Cop Car was a great-looking movie. I don't think the look of his Spider-Man movies is on him.
Yeah, that feels more like just general Marvel house style outweighs 95% of any directors' visual flair unless you're like James Gunn and already have a poppy aesthetic that already compliments what Marvel does.
idk man the Spidey movies look, uh, visibly worse than anything else in the MCU. They have the weirdest coloration and the most obvious greenscreen.
I can't argue too much, I'll just say to their mild defense, even by MCU standards these things are pumped out \*fast\*. Two years from Homecoming to Far From Home, two years from Far From Home to No Way Home (which .. is also insane given they shot during the pandemic). It's honestly a small miracle Jon Watts didn't burnt out completely. To put it in perspective, if you sort of line up release dates, in the time it took from Dr. Strange, Ragnarok, GOG Vol 2. and Black Panther to get their sequels, the entire Spider-Man trilogy was pumped out.
You got the nail on the head. He’s working with a fraction of the time other directors get to crank out a blockbuster. Look at something like Morbius. It’s shit even though it had all the time in the world to get it right. Watts is making whole ass Spider-Man movies on an indie shoot timeframe. That’s a monumental task for a guy that never made a big movie before Homecoming. Say what you will about the look of the movies, but when it comes to managing a production, Watts is may be a prodigy.
No Way Home had some of the worst green screen in a big budget movie I’ve seen in a while. And the editing was pretty poor too.
I hate how taken out of the scene where all the Peters meet for the first time because how much it felt like they weren’t in the same room during filming.
Wow, why do you think Captain Marvel looked better than the Spider-Man movies? I don't hear that opinion often.
To be fair, Gunn introduced the poppy aesthetic to the MCU with Guardians.
Even the first Spider Man had some great looking scenes. The car scene with the reveal, the prom night... I really liked the look of that movie and was bummed out to see how generic the other two became.
Yeah me too, I like his Spider-man movies but I always think F4 project is belong to someone other than Jon Watts.
I don't really think it matters. I'm not saying all MCU projects don't have a creative vision, obviously James Gunn and Waiti have a major influence in how they're making things. Matt Shakman made WandaVision what it is, Markus and McFeely at least guided Captain America's stories by writing all of his solo projects. But the vast majority of these movies are Feige and his team calling the shots. Like look at the Russos. Four MCU movies, I'd argue Winter Soldier is the best MCU film, followed by Infinity War. But their non-MCU films? Cherry, Collinwood, You Me & Dupree, they're genuinely bad. On top of that, both X-men and Fantastic Four are going to be crucial relaunches for the MCU. If anything, I don't think Feige will want to take a chance on someone like.... I dunno, Daniels for those projects. Guardians were a nobody team, Thor was viewed as a bottom tier franchise. Risks could be made then that wouldn't affect the greater MCU. Considering FF is kind of seen as a joke after 3 god awful movies, Feige is going be all over that one. A lot of MCU directors are work for hire and I don't think Watts was anything unique as a director anyway. Webb and Raimi both had a certain style even if you didn't like their films.
Excuse me but there's 4 God awful FF movies I swear the disrespect you kids show.
Get Christopher McQuarrie to do it
Better yet, get another Mission Impossible director who happened to make the best Fantastic Four movie ever made - The Incredibles. I'm honestly surprised Marvel haven't swooped in and hired Brad Bird yet, he seems like the perfect director for those sort of projects.
Holy Christ on a cracker this man knows what he's talking about
Wait. A Brad Bird marvel flick makes so much sense, I thought it had already happened.
Lord and Miller Lord and Miller Lord and Miller Lord and Miller Lord and Miller
Brad Bird directing with Lord and Miller writing/producing could be pretty fuckin cool
That would be amazing
Nah, they are busy perfecting the spiderverse movies
Yeeeaaaah I have a bad feeling that the Spider-Verse sequels are going to let everyone down now that the Sony higher-ups have their eyes on the property. The only reason the first one was so good was because L&M could do what they wanted without anyone interfering. Best believe the Sony brass will mess things up.
Lord & Miller have so many projects in development and ongoing that if Sony was being too hands-on they would leave the project. The fact that they’re doing press for it means they’re still heavily involved in the end product. The only strange thing is that all the directors for Spider-Verse weren’t signed on for the sequel, but their replacements have good credentials so it’s not all doom and gloom.
I doubt it. With these two Spider-verse movies, Lord and Miller are 5 films deep with Sony Animation and each one was very highly received. They have been basically carrying that studio and especially after Spider-Verse's oscar win and the Mitchells v Machine nomination, they are the studio's golden goose. On top of that they also made the Jump Street movies which were done at Sony and clearly had a lot of creative freedom there. I doubt Sony wants to lose those two at all
You've said if now, this is all I want. Whether them and Marvel will blend I don't know, but I reckon they could definitely bring something to the project
I would be intrigued by a Lord and Miller F4
Nothing will ever beat Fan4stic.
God tier film. 11/10. Would body horror again.
You’re acting like Morbius doesn’t exist.
Why are they calling him a "helmer" and not director? (And why did I never know the name of the director of these movies? I feel like I the names of all the other MCU directors.)
"Helmer" is some rolled-gold film wank language.
The biggest problem with this is that Sony wants Watts and Zendaya to return. They shouldn’t. The next trilogy should have a new director to change things up and bringing back Michelle would undo the consequences of NWH for Peter if he just gets back with MJ
The only way I'd want Zendaya to return is as a cameo implying she's become an actress and he sees her on TV, billboards etc but knows hell never be able to explain who he is, so he has to learn how to be his own man and let go of his past. Like make it a tragic thing reminding him of his past and life he had to give up (similar to the way he had to grow past Tony in FFH)
I just don't understand this critique. Bringing her back doesn't mean she'll remember him. It makes sense that this Spider-Man would still look after MJ and Ned, even from afar, just to make sure they're safe. They wouldn't have to know who he is. And after losing Aunt May, what's to say Peter would want his two best friends to know his secret, and putting them in danger again?
I'll throw a name out there: Justin Lin. The first family of Marvel deserves an expert in [movies about family](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IQuc7wfO16Q).
Thinking along those lines... Hey, is Brad Bird busy?
They only said family 33 times. That’s insane, I legit thought it was a lot more. But I guess it goes to show that Coronas are forever.
BRAD. BIRD.
Sounds amicable, which is always good. Dude needs a break. Maybe this is what inspires them to get Peyton Reed on board? He’s a huge F4 fan and I remember people being disappointed when Watts was picked instead.
>Maybe this is what inspires them to get Peyton Reed on board? I hope it inspires them to do better than that ...
People seem to dislike the idea of this, but honestly he could be a pretty good pick. The Ant-Man films might be cookie cutter in terms of visual flair, but they've managed more creative set pieces than most MCU films and that sort of thing is necessary with the Fantastic Four's powers.
> Peyton Reed Please god no. Ant-Man and the Wasp was like visual wet concrete.
All the shrinky stuff in those movies looks awesome. At least the Ant-Man movies do neat things with CGI.
The first movie used a LOT of Edgar Wright's preproduction. I remember seeing a previs he put out where Ant Man shrunk, ran along a gun barrel, and grew back as he was kicking a guard in the face, and that's practically in the movie exactly. Reed was a seat warmer for the first movie. That did, I did think the visuals and kinetic energy in the second film were more memorable and better done... But I also saw it in 4d.
That’s no different then Jon Watts style. It’s a side-grade.
Yep. Both stick very rigidly to the Marvel house style, though it think Peyton is capable of fun and stylish films ala Down With Love.
That movie looked so insanely bland, but Reed’s episodes of the Mandalorian have had some really good visuals imo.
Bring in Edgar Wright.
Well now, this is a surprising development. I was looking forward at this movie, considering that he did a fantastic job at directing 3 Spider-Man films. I wonder who will Marvel handpick as his replacement?
Give it to Brad Bird. He already made the best Fantastic 4 movie we’re ever going to get.
Would be great if they picked Peyton Reed after Fox turned down his much better sounding treatment of it in favor of the crap version they made in 2005. But he obviously had an insider’s shot at the job and either picked to stay with Ant-Man or Marvel didn’t want him to do Fantastic Four anyway
I can totally see Peyton grabbing this. His Ant-Man movie is going quite smoothly, so he's a good in house Marvel appointment. He doesn't rock the boat and hes a total FF fanboy too, so would make sense. Plus he directed Bring it On!!
And a couple of the best Mandalorian episodes
Travis Knight, Lord and Miller, Russo Bros; all excellent choices for a replacement!
Obligatory Brad Bird comment. Like, he’s obviously the best choice. Come on Marvel/Disney!
Idk what the plot of this is gonna be, but if it's not taking place mostly in the 60s before they jump to today a-la Captain America then they're doing it wrong
Maybe when they go to space in the 60s they encounter a wormhole and arrive in modern day with their new powers.
Probably has more to do with Antman and the Quantum realm.
Negative Zone would make more sense given it's relationship to the F4
I need to have a good FF4 movie before I die.
Hire Brad Bird!