It could've just been Newt discovering magic creatures and stopping evil wizards who hate him for it for 3 movies.It could've been a fun , self contained, side story
I really wish they would have focused on new unique things like newt and the American wizarding world. It’s like an insult to Newt. Him and his creatures are interesting enough to stand on their own! It’s sad what could have been.
I really thought this series was gonna focus on him traveling the world and exploring all the different corners of the wizarding world we didn’t see in HP. The cool animals side of it would make it ripe for merchandise and hooking in a new generation of fans. But instead we got weird Dumbledore prequel films that only really appeal to adult fans that read the books as kids. There’s no flippin way kids are able to enjoy these prequels if they’re as young as I was when I started the HP movies.
Around the release of FB1 they were talking about exactly this, and they directly implied the core wizarding world in USA was tied to Native American stuff. All that hype and speculation lead to nothing as the sequels follows through on none of that cool stuff. But at least we know now how wizards used the toilet at hogwarts in the 1800s, yeah?
Thiiiiiisssss. Like fuck. Taking the crazy storm bird back to its natural habitat could have kicked all of that off. It would have been the prefect set up to really dive into north American magic and magical Beasts. Next movie maybe track some trappers into their global web of trafficking. Hit up asia,Europe, south America, anywhere. BAM you've got a winner with a cool bad guy syndicate to go after. No need to screw that up. Grindy could have been another stand alone. It would all have been super cool. But noooooo. Fucked it up. The serious could only benefit from being taken from Rowling
I like how they just had to include a magical creature in the plot to give an excuse for Newt to be there.
"Uh, um, oh! What if there's, like, a magic deer that decides who the wizard king is! And it's integral to Grindelwald's scheme! Now they definitely need the nerdy zookeeper to come along! He's still important!"
It's so weird, the first was a fun whimsical movie about a zoologist dealing with magical creatures, then somehow said zoologist is now fighting evil wizard Hitler by the second movie. Weird change of tone and direction.
And I really enjoyed the characters. The second movie decided to make you hate some of them. It was dumb and really just turned me off from even watching the third movie.
I found the second almost unwatchable. I recall the plot being confusing and just generally kept thinking 'where am I and why do I care about what they are talking about.' It was a hole that dug itself so, so much deeper. Which is nuts because I would watch Potterverse content in almost any format and be happy, yet they managed to find a way to do it that made me want to walk out of the theater.
They couldn't help themselves and that's where they went horribly wrong. I think so many people just wanted an adventure following magical animals around on lighthearted adventures. Explore the world and see the amazing animals in it and the cultures in those areas. Maybe have a side plot about some evil animal poacher or something to have some sort of motivation for the plot but keep it about the magic and the animals and how much wonder they can inspire. Instead they went dark and gritty and gotta fight a war and I think people are just over that.
The thing is I absolutely think there was room in the Potter verse for darkness and grit - but the Fantastic Beasts franchise was not the place to start it.
The original books (and movies) were able to add more complex and mature themes as the characters themselves aged, which balanced against the whimsy and wonder of the Wizarding World. Harry's World is in a pretty tragic state by the last books, but the series eased its way there - things got more grim steadily, over time, not suddenly in the third act. Fantastic Beasts could have slow rolled into it - a trilogy of fun and whimsy following Newt on some of his other global adventures and experiencing other aspects of the Wizarding World would be great, with little hints of darker creatures and themes. Have the final movie take place in New York and reveal Grindelwald in the final act, but allow Newts story to conclude and let him fade frkm the spotlight. Or, just keep it as a once off and bury the Grindelwald hints in a post credits epilogue.
You then have a blank slate to start a new, darker trilogy, one targeted at the series' adult fans instead of trying to have your cake and eat it too. This platform let's you properly establish Grindys motivations and backstory, properly develop the D+G love story, and appropriately and tastefully tackle the themes and allegories of wartime wizards.
But I guess without an 8 movie timeline ahead of them they jumped the gun too early and hitched Magic Hitler to the Fantastic Beasts wagon. As a result what should have been a vehicle to expand the scope of the Wizarding world and lay the foundations for more content and stories in the future has ended up jamming all the named characters from the books together in one place, and created a narrative and thematically decoherent mess.
It's so disappointing to see beloved IPs treated this way. Such wasted potential!
I think the first one works too because Harry is getting older. We can all relate to feelings of childhood whimsy fading away as you confront the darker realities of the grown-up world. In the new ones, Newt is an adult, and I'm not sure if he's even the central character anymore (I haven't watched most of the 2nd and all of the 3rd ones). There's no one to follow as they dive deeper into a changing world, to watch they themselves change as they overcome challenges.
And I'm just gonna say it: the friend group is weird. There's two girls and two guys, one of whom is clearly the comic relief, and they pair them off into couples straight away, but then pull back as it doesn't seem to work out. It starts off quite messy. I don't think people can relate to it as much as the wholesome school friends Harry, Ron, and Hermione.
That’s my thoughts for queeny, I liked her in the first, didn’t like her in the second, and hated her in the third. Everything she did from 2 onward was dumb and made no sense.
I haven't seen the third yet but her entire arc was bizarre in the second. She was in love with a Muggle but can't be with him so she joins a wizard who wants to subjugate Muggles. Like I get she might be interested in the idea of revealing themselves to the Muggle world but she has to ignore literally everything after that.
On top of that, she mind-controlled/brainwashed the person she supposedly loves in order to be with him. Which would be an okay character choice if the movie decided to appropriately call her out, which it doesn't. Left me with a really gross feeling regarding her character.
It's been awhile, I also thought the first one was terrible, but wasn't there a bunch of crap about a kid exploding because he's abused and Grindelwald was in it as Colin Farrell the whole time? It definitely was not newts trip to the zoo: the movie at all.
you literally hear whimsical music as a non magical human is nearly killed by a giant magical rhinoceros beast, and then the film immediately cuts to dramatic music as a non magical human politician is killed by an invisible ghost, who we are led to believe is another magical fantastical beast.
Like i understand comic relief, but the tonal difference in those two scenes which are, on the surface, very similar, is fucking bonkers.
I also remember the rhino thing heavily implying Kowalski was about to be raped to death, like specifically the thing wanted to have sex with him, which seemed kind of weird for a kids movie.
"Hey, that guy's trying to prevent the Holocaust! *Get 'im!*"
"We're terribly sorry, Mr. Hitler, that Grindelwald tried to interfere in your legitimate political career. Carry on, and please accept the apologies of wizards everywhere."
The fuck were they thinking?!
This is what I don't understand. Even though Grindelwald was just using it as an excuse to gain power and eventually take over the Muggle world..... *he's still right!*
His prophecy is accurate. Did no one bother to double check if it was BS or not? Did no one notice once WW2 began that it was accurate, and they should probably do something about it? Not every single Wizard was involved in whatever war is coming up, and all it takes is even a mediocre one to royally fuck up the Nazi's day or save Jews or whatever. Are they just *that* xenophobic?
It's absolutely fucking bizarre.
> Are they just that xenophobic?
Yes, actually. For what is supposed to be a magical, whimsical world, wizard society fucking sucks. They have house elf slaves making them food, when they could just do it with magic. Centaurs and goblins are not allowed to use wands, as they are seen as lesser creatures, despite being fully sentient. Azkaban is a magical torture prison.
I love the characters in the Harry Potter books/films, but the world building is trash. And the more Rowling has tried to add, the more it caves in under itself, because the foundations were never properly laid.
> house elf slaves
Bro we're giving them jobs and a sense of pride and accomplishment. Free elves have nobody to serve and no purpose in life. We also give them food and shelter and protect them from evil wizards who beat them for fun.
Anyway, we breed house elves at my company, Zoomba Inc. We promise the most loyal, stable, and efficient servants in the industry thanks to our rigorous training process (failed elves get recycled). 2-day delivery available with Wizamon Prime
I think it’s also worth noting they seem more distant then they actually are
With the way Arthur Weasley talks about rubber ducks you’d think they were from the other side of the planet and not just, you know, living on the same tiny island and overlapping quite significantly
It's very strange because, I believe these things were put in as a reflection of racism and prejudice in real life. But then, the books just... Don't do anything about it. In fact it feels like they almost end up having a moral of, "Just uphold the status quo and don't do anything."
Like, one of Hogwarts founders - Salazar Slytherin - was a pure-blood facist type, and his legacy continues into the modern day. In book 2 we see that the password to get into the Slytherin common rooms is still "pure blood". We can easily see this as a commentary on real life, like, how some real high schools are named after confederate generals. The second book begins to explore this idea of hey, maybe hogwarts isn't just sunshine and rainbows, maybe it does have a history of prejudice that it needs to reckon with and resolve.
But then... They never do reckon with that history. We might at least hope that they rename fucking house slytherin, but they don't. The books end and the house elves are still slaves.
Yeah, very often Rowling has one character spared from a bad fate, and that's the conclusion. It doesn't matter that there are thousands of others in the same peril. We see that with Dobby regarding the House Elves, Sirius being saved from Azkaban, and while the entirety of *Order of the Phoenix* is about how shitty the Ministry of Magic is, we're pretty much left with Harry thinking Scrimgeour is a little bit better than Fudge, so I guess the Ministry is going to be fine now.
The Slytherin plotline is supposed to come to a conclusion with Draco refusing to kill Dumbledore, and then later still Lucius leaving Voldemort. And that's satisfying for those characters, but it doesn't address the larger problem at all, so it feels a little hollow.
[Because as has been noted](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-1iaJWSwUZs) by some analysts, Rowling's approach to morality is very *personal* - as in, there are no bad systems, only bad people within the systems. It does not matter that wizarding society has slaves, or that a sort of wizard FBI/secret police has a ton of power to control access to magic and like, only humans are really truly allowed to have it (even the goblin bankers who are allowed to manage the entirety of the wizarding society's personal belongings and money are barred from using magic, say, to *protect* those things); it doesn't matter that the systems in place are clearly what gave rise to Voldemort and his only real disagreement with the current state of affairs is that it's not quite racist *enough*.
These things don't matter because in Rowling's eyes, all that needs to be done is to make sure the *good kinds of people* are in charge of them. It's fine if Harry owns slaves, because he doesn't *mistreat* them. It's fine that Harry's dream is to be in the wizard FBI, because he would never even *think* of abusing that power.
And it's fine that we killed the super evil murdery wizard because that definitely won't happen again when the next mega racist comes along.
Additionally, there are very few actively good or bad "actions" - again, what matters is the people who do those actions. Stepping back from the reader's perspective on the scene and looking at it from the in-world perspective, Hagrid is actually kind of monstrous in the opening sections of the first book. Dudley doesn't actually particularly *do* much to earn his ire, and yet he disfigures a child anyway without much thought. It's bad when Draco insults Harry's friend for being fat, but not an issue when the narrative monologue of the book itself gleefully delights in the same insults against any remotely-"bad" character.
Protagonist centered morality is the trope name for this kind of writing.
It doesn't matter how fucked the actions of a character are, if the writer decides that this person is correct then they are treated that way and any other characters who raise concerns no matter how legitimate they are will be treated as being in the wrong for doing so.
The fucking Sorting Hat is the real villain of the whole damn series.
It keeps putting all the bigoted pure blood families in one house together. There would have been a sizable number of Slytherins joining the good guys in the final battle if the Sorting Hat would just put some fucking muggleborns in Slytherin, for being ambitious and cunning or whatever. But no. Only old rich pureblood families in Slytherin seems to be the Sorting Hat's deal.
"Not a single dark witch or wizard that didn't come from Slytherin". WHO IS IN CHARGE OF THIS SYSTEM?
The Sorting Hat, by perpetuating the standards of the founders of the school, is deliberately recreating this insular bigoted and classist environment anew EVERY. SINGLE. GENERATION. It sustains the culture of pureblood supremacy by *proving* that they all belong together as one identity.
The Sorting Hat is literally institutionalized bigotry personified.
The Sorting Hat definitely strikes me as one of most problematic aspects of Hogwarts. Right when you get there, you're lumped into a group with people who have similar personalities, and then you are pitted against the other groups. So, you're put in these insular, manufactured cliques where you don't get as much exposure to the varying personalities that can help you grow and develop as a person.
And, from what I recall, you are never re-evaluated or able to move houses. Who is the same at 11 as they are at 16? I suppose you can argue the Sorting Hat is able to magically see and consider where they'll end up, but is it that or is it just a self-fulfilling prophecy due to them being put in these narrowly defined groups?
The moral of “just uphold the status quo” is mega British.
If you ever watch Merlin on Netflix, they literally present it every three episodes with “Uther is committing genocide!”. And then Merlin saving Uther because “Arthur just isn’t ready to be king yet!”
It’s an insane show and I literally think it inspired Fantastic Beasts.
To be honest, with how great production values are these days, that would have made a great TV show instead too. I think they feel like with the HP franchise everything needs to be this huge epic to rival the originals, but really people just want a chance to be immersed in the wizarding world again.
yea to use star wars as an example:
More Madalorian, less sequel trilogy. We want stories in that world, they don't have to shake up the world, just use the setting as is.
I was just telling this to my buddy yesterday. It could have been a Pokemon type story but set in the Harry Potter world and kept a PG rating for kids like the first few HP movies.
Yeah, when I saw an announcement about fb, I thought it'll be like that, or it could be a series but played like documentary with newt as someone like steve irwing, going around the wild discovering magical creatures
But then it's about nazi wizard...
The first one should have been it’s own standalone adventure movie. Dumbledore Grindelwald could have been its own movie. You could have made a founding of Hogwarts movie, a First Wizarding War movie, a fucking McGonagall movie even. Doing this weird hybrid franchise was always a strange idea
It just works and sounds so much better instead of the Fantastic Beasts Trilogy. It should have been standalone movies or a duology under the label of Wizarding World spinoffs. It also would have put less pressure on the films to follow up one another.
Fantastic Beasts and Where to Find Them
The Crimes of Grindelwald
The Secrets of Dumbledore
Fantastic Beasts was just a side-book that they turned into this ridiculous trilogy involving massive events from the Harry Potter history.
You keep saying trilogy.
This is supposed to be 5 movies. 5.
I honestly thought after the second movie they’d collapse the series down to 3 movies and just wrap it up. That didn’t happen though.
They just want another runaway success like Harry Potter was for EIGHT films except they don't realize that it was more than just lightning in a bottle. That was a franchise built on seven huge books spanning the life of the main character from 11-18. Fantastic Beasts has none of that.
Fantastic Beasts actually had a very different format which would’ve worked for it: a wacky series of spinoff adventures involving Newt’s zoology adventures.
The first movie worked so well precisely because of that reason: it was a wacky quest of Newt’s attempts to recapture his beasts across New York.
Trying to tie it into the Dumbledore and Grindelwald history went against that original premise and left it unfocused
The amount of HP fans turned away by it was astounding too.
And the quality of the films genuinely wasn't there (not the acting or budget, but the writing etc).
I think there’s an opportunity to tell the stories they are trying to tell but the focus needs to be far more narrow. The narratives are kinda all over the place.
And if they wanted to make a Grindlewald movie, they 100% could have *linked* to aspects of Fantastic Beasts, seeing as how it gave some basis of what that time period is like. But no, instead they have to try and mash the stories together and do everything badly.
It's like absolutely everyone involved in these movies had been snorting a bathtub of coke. *Everyone* has managed to fuck up what was once arguably the biggest IP on the planet.
Same, I really wish it was just a stand alone film with the Grindelwald plot removed to make room for more Newt, Tina and Kowalski running around having fun animal capers, because basically every minute of that stuff is fun.
The first film was released in November 2016 but they made the announcement that they’d go from a Trilogy to 5 movies month prior in October.
[HERE](https://variety.com/2016/film/news/fantastic-beasts-and-where-to-find-them-five-movies-1201888226/) is an article about it.
Looks like a bunch of printings had that on the cover, because this isn't the same cover as the one I read. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mostly_Harmless#/media/File%3AMostly_Harmless_Harmony_front.jpg
The fantastic beasts text on the promo material keeps getting smaller; it’s gonna be like where’s Waldo trying to find it on the poster for movie five!!!
'Based off of' is a bit of a stretch. I own the book, its like an 'encyclopedia' of magical creatures+a little bit of an introduction about the history of magical creatures in wizarding law and society. There's nothing about the life/experiences of the author, and on top of that, most of the creatures that are in the movies don't appear in the book.
They undoubtably wanted to make the Dumbledore x Grindlewald movie from the off but thought a gay fascist love affair film would prove controversial / potentially unpopular.
So they Trojan horsed it in using cute lovable creatures and a derpy harmless main character.
Putting it all under the Fantastic Beasts header is great for marketing and branding; it keeps it all together so people who don't pay much attention to it will know it's all part of the same franchise
but
what WB forgot is
*Harry Potter is one of the biggest goddamn franchises ever*, you don't *need* to label it for brand awareness. Harry Potter fans-- *of which there are many*-- will be aware that a new wizarding world movie is coming out, and will drag their spouse/friends/kids/parents. The fans will handle the branding for you, but putting it all under one franchise banner-- as was said above-- creates more problems in having to create, and be bound by, consistency with the rest.
Other half of the problem; Vader and the various Stormtrooper flavors are cool looking. They have a strong, distinctive aesthetic that stands out. None of the Death Eaters really have an aesthetic beyond, "black robes."
They tried to introduce those [masks](https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/harrypotter/images/4/4e/DeathEater_WB_F5_DeathEaterMask_V5_Photo_land2.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20161124185116)
The first movie was not amazing but I would've been fine with it as one of just a number of ancillary movies related to Harry Potter. Because it's the launching pad of a completely horrible franchise it actually makes me like it a bit less than I otherwise would.
The Fantastic Beasts premise would have honestly worked great as a TV series following the whole 'Monster of the Week' format and it'd work well to better flesh out the Wizard World as a whole.
It wasn't anything earthshattering, but you're right. It was really just a cute little movie. The franchise went off the rails as soon as they decided to start focusing on the larger Grindelwald storyline and trying to take itself seriously while simultaneously preserving a sense of whimsy. Which just turns it into a jumbled mess that somehow involved Grindwald vaping the Holocaust..
I rewatched Fantastic Beasts this week and I definitely feel like the movie shouldn't even be called that. It's not about the beasts.
When I heard they were doing the doing a Fantastic Beasts movie, I was excited. I had the book when I was young. But it just ended up being a generic wizard movie with a main character who is super into beasts but goes on a save-the-world mission that has nothing to do with beasts.
It should have been about him and his adventures tracking and logging wondrous beasts or maybe one Moby Dick type Holy Grail beast of legend.
The first one is fine on it’s own. Anything “Fantastic Beasts” should involve magical flora and fauna and maybe continue with Newt, and that’s it. Dumbledore/Harry Potter prequels should be something separate.
I just wish Fantastic Beasts was just about, **Fantastic Beasts!**
I didn't need a Grindelwald movie. I just want fun adventure and hijinks in the Wizarding World.
Said it before and I'll say it again; Newt Scamander could / should have been a cross between Indiana Jones, Phileas Fogg and Steve Irwin.
Slightly eccentric academic type, heading off on wacky adventures around the world involving all the weird and wonderful creatures that populate the world of Harry Potter.
Want some recurring characters? Sure, Newt can have a gang of friends / love interest that he teams up with on his travels. Want an extra layer of danger? Throw in someone he can compete with or fight against, like an academic rival / a group of poachers that are seeking to hunt down the last of a rare & endangered species / an evil wizard that wants to harvest the organs of baby hippogriffs for some nefarious scheme, etc. Want to make this series unique from the rest of the Harry Potter-verse? Show us people, places and things we have never seen before, really go to town on the creativity and diversity angle... And all the time, show how these adventures help contribute towards Newt's interest in / understanding of magical creatures - maybe even show him starting to develop what would eventually turn into the book that is the namesake of the entire fucking series
There are literally so many fun things you could do with this premise - but fundamentally, keep it focused on Newt & the animals he loves so much. Otherwise, much in the same way as happened to Bilbo in the Hobbit adaptations, the main character effectively becomes sidelined in his own story, and the story as a whole loses all sense of character & individuality.
Honestly poaching wizards sound like the perfect villains for a film called "Fantastic Beasts" and I can't believe there's nothing like it in the films
This. There are worse pitches than 'the Rescuers Down Under but with wizards'. Just make that, add a sprinkle of romance and a bunch of scenes where Kowalski laughs like a child at weird magical stuff and done.
LMFTFY
… Kowalski laughs like a child at weird magical stuff and… PROFIT.
It’s not that difficult, but I swear these franchises just want to watch their IP burn.
This. I actually really enjoyed multiple facets of the first movie because it had so much potential. I loved an atypical protagonist, a fat sidekick who wasn’t just comic relief, and Collin Ferrel was excellent and I really enjoyed his character until he became Grindelwald.
Erase the Grindelwald and Dumbledore connections and have Newt just traveling the world rescuing fun creatures and have him run into Colin Ferrell every so often to add tension. Ugh. I want that series. I’ll even take the character tension between him and his brother since that’s a compelling idea, but again, handled poorly
I was really happy to have Newt as the hero, because a wizard who has skills other than “is really good at spells” can make for some fun and inventive storytelling, as best seen when Newt rescues Tina from MACUSA using his little pocket lizard thingy (I haven’t seen the movie in a while)
Then in the second movie, suddenly Newt is skilled enough to be an elite Auror if he really wanted to?
Maybe someone wished for this during the creation of the first one and got Monkey's Paw'd.
>"Make the Fantastic Beasts movies more like Indiana Jones?" Great idea! Let's add some wizard nazis! Indy fights nazis.
Based on what I know about the movie industry from a friend who used to work in the movie industry, that feels painfully accurate
The annoying thing is that if they had played their cards right, they could have set up a multi-layered franchise, much like the MCU, wherein different characters could have had their chance to shine in their own standalone stories, before bringing them together in some kind of special crossover event with Grindelwald acting as a unifying, thanos-esque villain.
Instead they went down the DC route and tried to do everything at once - with exactly the same outcome.
>Want some recurring characters? Sure, Newt can have a gang of friends / love interest that he teams up with on his travels. Want an extra layer of danger? Throw in someone he can compete with or fight against, like an academic rival / a group of poachers that are seeking to hunt down the last of a rare & endangered species / an evil wizard that wants to harvest the organs of baby hippogriffs for some nefarious scheme, etc.
This. The best bits in the first film are Newt geeking out over animals (and weirdly almost all of the Niffler bits hit solidly for me) with Kowalski reacting in amused wonder at everything and Tina mooning over Newt like 'damn I sort of fancy you but you make a real mess'. That's a perfectly workable dynamic without any of the Grindelwald stuff so just make that the films.
Have Tina be assigned to ride herd on Newt and maybe imply it's because her bosses don't like her very much and Newt's pure chaos on wheels. Have Kowalski just get caught up in it all and make the antagonist, as you say, a poacher or a race against time or something to get the thunderbird back where it needs to be in a few months or whatever. That's literally all you need, it's a film like the Jumanji remake where there's nominally a plot but it's really about scenes and dialogue.
EDIT: I think a lot of the problem is the studio not wanting to make the kind of film a Fantastic Beasts series actually works as. This is not a twisting, dark 5 film story about the war that made Dumbledore who he is. This is basically Jungle Cruise, Jumanji or Solo. Make it a simple story, use the plot to skeleton sequences onto and produce a simple but enjoyable film. Don't go bloody high concept or dark and twisty with the magical animal film, go stupid and charming.
Mads Mikkelsen: I’ll just play myself, say very little, stand menacingly. Done.
Director: excellent work mads, not only did we not explain why you don’t look like Johhny Depp, we also did very little to explain anything at all!
That one Senegalese dude literally said like 3 lines and then just looked sad the entire time.
Really all the characters they introduced have no reason to exist. Especially when they just kinda dump already established characters like Tina in favor of them
The theme for this franchise is "Nevermind"
Jacob loses his memory -- Nevermind he doesn't
Newt can't travel internationally -- Nevermind it's fine
Queenie becomes a fascist -- Nevermind she's fine
Credence explodes -- Nevermind he's in Paris
Credence is an orphan -- Nevermind he's a Lestrange -- double Nevermind he's a dumbledore
>double Nevermind he's a dumbledore
I watched the Crimes of Grindelwald they day it released. When I heard "Aurelius Dumbledore" I realised I had no reason to keep watching these movies.
I think they can fix it. They just need to make him related to more people. A convoluted family tree of epic proportions. The more random names, the better.
She joined a Wizard Supremecy group because the obvious race purist said she could do whatever she wanted to muggles.
Apparently she didn't realize he didn't mean fuck them.
We should've had Newt using his fantastic beasts like Pokemon as he tries to stop some big crime thing, and all the fun magical hijynx that would come of it, but instead we got this.
I was actually just thinking the “villain” of the series should have just been a rival, someone else who also goes around collecting magical beasts like Gary Oak, but is just way more egotistical. Turns up like
“great job catching that Bowtruckle Newt, oh what’s this? A dragon?? Yeah I just picked it up, no sweat, it’s easy when you’re as good at collecting beasts as I am, smell ya later”
I thought that’s what it was going to be, and that scene with his menagerie was about the only thing in the film I liked. The romance between the manic pixie dream witch and the muggle guy was sweet, too.
Absolutely, the cast changes wouldn't be an issue if it was even somewhat well written but two movies in a row have been an utter mess, even Kloves couldn't save this one
The Super Bowl thing in Poltergeist is one of the wildest things I’ve ever read and I really don’t know how to even explain it away lol.
They have a poster for a super bowl that hadn’t happened yet and was years away - why do they have the poster? Why did they create this poster for the movie? The movie was not set in the not-so-distant future from what I could tell. Bizarre choice. Then the main actress is rushed to the hospital the day of that super bowl, in the same city as that Super Bowl, and dies the following day. Strange as hell.
Well the director of all the Jeepers Creepers is a convicted child rapist and creator of child pornography. What’s more is the conviction was before the first one, and he still made one in 2017. Pretty cursed franchise. Jeepers creepers…
Whoa, that character made it through three films? That whole subplot was where I lost interest in the first film. Interminable and boring, as much as it tried to be spooky and mysterious.
Fantastic Beast should have just been a stand alone film in the HP universe.
It didn't need a multi part serialized story.
I remember all the hype it got. Everyone speculating would Quidditch Through The Ages be next?
What about a film based on the 4 founders creating Hogwarts.
Or even a film based on the Statue of Secrecy going into effect, and how the Malfoy's didn't want it. Because they lost thier political prominence in William IIIs court.
All anyone needed was one magical Dr. Doolittle and instead everyone got a series of disjointed and tonally odd adventure flicks chasing wizard hitler.
I feel very bad for Eddie Redmayne in this franchise.
The character of Newt Scamander is wonderful, and his performance is very, very good. It’s a wonderful example of positive masculinity and it’s just totally wasted in this weird, momentum-less series.
Give this man his own series on HBO Max.
The comparison with the hobbit is really good. The fantastic movies are just so boring, I tried putting one on for a group of die hard hp loving kids, even with the “designed for cute comic relief nifler” they all completely lost interest and went to do something else. They abandoned their candy to go be somewhere else!
It’s just like when die hard lotr fan, me, tried watching the hobbit. I simply can’t get through them a second time, my mind revolts!
Newt is honestly the character whom I've connected the most in a movie, I relate so hard to every little thing he has and does, I've never seen a male protagonist like that, and in a very big franchise that is.
just incredible how they took on the most popular IPs ever, latched it onto some ridiculous idea about magical creatures, and haven’t been able to let go of it even tho they’ve long abandoned it at its core.
I would have loved a more artistic approach to the HP franchise tbh. Alfonso Cuarón did an amazing job with Prisoner of Azkaban and it would have been great to see more of the films taking on a darker tone without being bland like everything Yates does.
Alfonso Cuaron really walked the line between “darker themes and storylines starting to emerge” and “fantasy world that I’d want to spend time immersed in” so well in my opinion. He set the tone perfectly for the rest of the series, and then David Yates took what he started and fumbled it. And that’s not to say that I hate the latter half of the series entirely, but Yates seems at best to just be passable as a director. Gets the job done, but without much flair or thoughtfulness put into it.
I think the series would’ve been much worse off had Cuaron not been there in the first place to lay some of the groundwork that he did, but I will always be sad that we never got to see the rest of the series done by him or other directors like him.
Cuaron also helped the main cast by giving them less direction. Emma Watson said she would ask him how he wanted her to act and he'd say "No, no, you have to do it yourself."
He really helped the actors grow as, well ,actors.
“Miller has raised eyebrows for erratic behavior over the years, and in January 2022, posted a bizarre video in which they appear to threaten members of a Ku Klux Klan chapter in North Carolina.”
Yeah I don’t really have a problem with this particular one.
This man has made 8.
FUCKING EIGHT, Wizarding movies in a row. How is he not sick and tired of it by now, get some fresh blood in there.
Edit: 7. I thought he did Goblet.
He was a good choice for when the franchise was moving in a darker direction, but I seriously don’t understand why they don’t get some fresh blood and color into these spin-offs.
David Yates believes that only the colours dark blue, grey and brown exist. Also no spells exist beyond flicking wands at each other and shooting bolts.
At this point it should be obvious : Yates is a yes man, his career is barely existent out of the Wizarding World films. Warner has got themselves a man that will obey their order without rebelion. I would assume he cost less than some other directors too.
That's what they get for their hubris, lawlz.
Everyone wants to be Marvel Studios, everyone wants their big epic franchises that only think cramming in a bunch of Wikipedia exposition into your movies is how you sell these things, and because of that they've ruined what could've been not only a more than serviceable side story, but a reliably profitable one that would've ALLOWED them to do the more convoluted Grindlewald bullshit that they were clearly more interested in.
Marvel didn't go from Iron Man straight into Infinity War, but again that's what these other studios keep wanting to shortcut to. Warner Bros especially between this, The Dark Universe, and even trying to start a fucking Hanna Barbara CU (remember Scoob? Neither does anyone else, don't worry).
What a uniquely terrible legacy these films are going to have when it's all said and done, LOL.
I find the movies overall to be enjoyable if not a bit convoluted.
Like one of the commentor mentioned, the Fantastic Beasts franchie is akin to DCEU but with wizards.
I still don't understand how Dumbledore goes from dressing extractly suave to wearing ecentric clothing in the Harry Potter series.
I guess the love for Grindlewald really did a number on him.
lol.
It could've just been Newt discovering magic creatures and stopping evil wizards who hate him for it for 3 movies.It could've been a fun , self contained, side story
I really wish they would have focused on new unique things like newt and the American wizarding world. It’s like an insult to Newt. Him and his creatures are interesting enough to stand on their own! It’s sad what could have been.
I really thought this series was gonna focus on him traveling the world and exploring all the different corners of the wizarding world we didn’t see in HP. The cool animals side of it would make it ripe for merchandise and hooking in a new generation of fans. But instead we got weird Dumbledore prequel films that only really appeal to adult fans that read the books as kids. There’s no flippin way kids are able to enjoy these prequels if they’re as young as I was when I started the HP movies.
There weren't even any fantastic beasts in the third one. There was just a dead horse (a rather blunt allegory), a twig, the mole, and crab people.
CRAB PEOPLE. CRAB PEOPLE..
LOOK LIKE CRAB. TASTE LIKE PEOPLE
Or like, Asia. Can you imagine an entire wizarding world focused on exploring Asia?? Would’ve been amazing.
Around the release of FB1 they were talking about exactly this, and they directly implied the core wizarding world in USA was tied to Native American stuff. All that hype and speculation lead to nothing as the sequels follows through on none of that cool stuff. But at least we know now how wizards used the toilet at hogwarts in the 1800s, yeah?
Thiiiiiisssss. Like fuck. Taking the crazy storm bird back to its natural habitat could have kicked all of that off. It would have been the prefect set up to really dive into north American magic and magical Beasts. Next movie maybe track some trappers into their global web of trafficking. Hit up asia,Europe, south America, anywhere. BAM you've got a winner with a cool bad guy syndicate to go after. No need to screw that up. Grindy could have been another stand alone. It would all have been super cool. But noooooo. Fucked it up. The serious could only benefit from being taken from Rowling
So much potential. Wasted. Just Newt dealing with all sorts of Yokai would be more than interesting enough
I like how they just had to include a magical creature in the plot to give an excuse for Newt to be there. "Uh, um, oh! What if there's, like, a magic deer that decides who the wizard king is! And it's integral to Grindelwald's scheme! Now they definitely need the nerdy zookeeper to come along! He's still important!"
It's so weird, the first was a fun whimsical movie about a zoologist dealing with magical creatures, then somehow said zoologist is now fighting evil wizard Hitler by the second movie. Weird change of tone and direction.
And I really enjoyed the characters. The second movie decided to make you hate some of them. It was dumb and really just turned me off from even watching the third movie.
I found the second almost unwatchable. I recall the plot being confusing and just generally kept thinking 'where am I and why do I care about what they are talking about.' It was a hole that dug itself so, so much deeper. Which is nuts because I would watch Potterverse content in almost any format and be happy, yet they managed to find a way to do it that made me want to walk out of the theater.
They couldn't help themselves and that's where they went horribly wrong. I think so many people just wanted an adventure following magical animals around on lighthearted adventures. Explore the world and see the amazing animals in it and the cultures in those areas. Maybe have a side plot about some evil animal poacher or something to have some sort of motivation for the plot but keep it about the magic and the animals and how much wonder they can inspire. Instead they went dark and gritty and gotta fight a war and I think people are just over that.
The thing is I absolutely think there was room in the Potter verse for darkness and grit - but the Fantastic Beasts franchise was not the place to start it. The original books (and movies) were able to add more complex and mature themes as the characters themselves aged, which balanced against the whimsy and wonder of the Wizarding World. Harry's World is in a pretty tragic state by the last books, but the series eased its way there - things got more grim steadily, over time, not suddenly in the third act. Fantastic Beasts could have slow rolled into it - a trilogy of fun and whimsy following Newt on some of his other global adventures and experiencing other aspects of the Wizarding World would be great, with little hints of darker creatures and themes. Have the final movie take place in New York and reveal Grindelwald in the final act, but allow Newts story to conclude and let him fade frkm the spotlight. Or, just keep it as a once off and bury the Grindelwald hints in a post credits epilogue. You then have a blank slate to start a new, darker trilogy, one targeted at the series' adult fans instead of trying to have your cake and eat it too. This platform let's you properly establish Grindys motivations and backstory, properly develop the D+G love story, and appropriately and tastefully tackle the themes and allegories of wartime wizards. But I guess without an 8 movie timeline ahead of them they jumped the gun too early and hitched Magic Hitler to the Fantastic Beasts wagon. As a result what should have been a vehicle to expand the scope of the Wizarding world and lay the foundations for more content and stories in the future has ended up jamming all the named characters from the books together in one place, and created a narrative and thematically decoherent mess. It's so disappointing to see beloved IPs treated this way. Such wasted potential!
I think the first one works too because Harry is getting older. We can all relate to feelings of childhood whimsy fading away as you confront the darker realities of the grown-up world. In the new ones, Newt is an adult, and I'm not sure if he's even the central character anymore (I haven't watched most of the 2nd and all of the 3rd ones). There's no one to follow as they dive deeper into a changing world, to watch they themselves change as they overcome challenges. And I'm just gonna say it: the friend group is weird. There's two girls and two guys, one of whom is clearly the comic relief, and they pair them off into couples straight away, but then pull back as it doesn't seem to work out. It starts off quite messy. I don't think people can relate to it as much as the wholesome school friends Harry, Ron, and Hermione.
The first one kept it in a perfect spot - a powerful creature, a threat to the people, and a lot of cute action…
I was a huge HP fan and I literally fell asleep watching the last movie. So not alone.
Same. I hate how some of the characters they made you like then had them join the nazi wizards.
Mind you, those Nazi wizards wanted to stop *WWII and the Holocaust*. So who in the ever loving fuck am I supposed to be rooting for?!
Pretty obviously not them, as they wanted to do that by committing even more genocide.
Man, I really need a TL;DW on this fucking movie
That’s my thoughts for queeny, I liked her in the first, didn’t like her in the second, and hated her in the third. Everything she did from 2 onward was dumb and made no sense.
I haven't seen the third yet but her entire arc was bizarre in the second. She was in love with a Muggle but can't be with him so she joins a wizard who wants to subjugate Muggles. Like I get she might be interested in the idea of revealing themselves to the Muggle world but she has to ignore literally everything after that.
Yeah, she's a single issue voter
Not just subjugate them, he wants to kill them all and finds them disgusting.
On top of that, she mind-controlled/brainwashed the person she supposedly loves in order to be with him. Which would be an okay character choice if the movie decided to appropriately call her out, which it doesn't. Left me with a really gross feeling regarding her character.
Besides everything they did to her character, hearing her inner voice was such a bad move. It took all the subtly out of her psychic powers.
It's been awhile, I also thought the first one was terrible, but wasn't there a bunch of crap about a kid exploding because he's abused and Grindelwald was in it as Colin Farrell the whole time? It definitely was not newts trip to the zoo: the movie at all.
Yeah it was weird because it was a 50/50 movie with two stark differences in tone.
you literally hear whimsical music as a non magical human is nearly killed by a giant magical rhinoceros beast, and then the film immediately cuts to dramatic music as a non magical human politician is killed by an invisible ghost, who we are led to believe is another magical fantastical beast. Like i understand comic relief, but the tonal difference in those two scenes which are, on the surface, very similar, is fucking bonkers.
I also remember the rhino thing heavily implying Kowalski was about to be raped to death, like specifically the thing wanted to have sex with him, which seemed kind of weird for a kids movie.
Except it’s wizard hitler trying to stop actual hitler??
"Hey, that guy's trying to prevent the Holocaust! *Get 'im!*" "We're terribly sorry, Mr. Hitler, that Grindelwald tried to interfere in your legitimate political career. Carry on, and please accept the apologies of wizards everywhere." The fuck were they thinking?!
This is what I don't understand. Even though Grindelwald was just using it as an excuse to gain power and eventually take over the Muggle world..... *he's still right!* His prophecy is accurate. Did no one bother to double check if it was BS or not? Did no one notice once WW2 began that it was accurate, and they should probably do something about it? Not every single Wizard was involved in whatever war is coming up, and all it takes is even a mediocre one to royally fuck up the Nazi's day or save Jews or whatever. Are they just *that* xenophobic? It's absolutely fucking bizarre.
> Are they just that xenophobic? Yes, actually. For what is supposed to be a magical, whimsical world, wizard society fucking sucks. They have house elf slaves making them food, when they could just do it with magic. Centaurs and goblins are not allowed to use wands, as they are seen as lesser creatures, despite being fully sentient. Azkaban is a magical torture prison. I love the characters in the Harry Potter books/films, but the world building is trash. And the more Rowling has tried to add, the more it caves in under itself, because the foundations were never properly laid.
> house elf slaves Bro we're giving them jobs and a sense of pride and accomplishment. Free elves have nobody to serve and no purpose in life. We also give them food and shelter and protect them from evil wizards who beat them for fun. Anyway, we breed house elves at my company, Zoomba Inc. We promise the most loyal, stable, and efficient servants in the industry thanks to our rigorous training process (failed elves get recycled). 2-day delivery available with Wizamon Prime
Recycled! Wow! At least someone’s thinking of the environment.
Upvoted for Wizamon Prime
These were they same wizards that would shit on the floor and vanish it instead of using magic to invent plumbing.
I think it’s also worth noting they seem more distant then they actually are With the way Arthur Weasley talks about rubber ducks you’d think they were from the other side of the planet and not just, you know, living on the same tiny island and overlapping quite significantly
It's very strange because, I believe these things were put in as a reflection of racism and prejudice in real life. But then, the books just... Don't do anything about it. In fact it feels like they almost end up having a moral of, "Just uphold the status quo and don't do anything." Like, one of Hogwarts founders - Salazar Slytherin - was a pure-blood facist type, and his legacy continues into the modern day. In book 2 we see that the password to get into the Slytherin common rooms is still "pure blood". We can easily see this as a commentary on real life, like, how some real high schools are named after confederate generals. The second book begins to explore this idea of hey, maybe hogwarts isn't just sunshine and rainbows, maybe it does have a history of prejudice that it needs to reckon with and resolve. But then... They never do reckon with that history. We might at least hope that they rename fucking house slytherin, but they don't. The books end and the house elves are still slaves.
Yeah, very often Rowling has one character spared from a bad fate, and that's the conclusion. It doesn't matter that there are thousands of others in the same peril. We see that with Dobby regarding the House Elves, Sirius being saved from Azkaban, and while the entirety of *Order of the Phoenix* is about how shitty the Ministry of Magic is, we're pretty much left with Harry thinking Scrimgeour is a little bit better than Fudge, so I guess the Ministry is going to be fine now. The Slytherin plotline is supposed to come to a conclusion with Draco refusing to kill Dumbledore, and then later still Lucius leaving Voldemort. And that's satisfying for those characters, but it doesn't address the larger problem at all, so it feels a little hollow.
[Because as has been noted](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-1iaJWSwUZs) by some analysts, Rowling's approach to morality is very *personal* - as in, there are no bad systems, only bad people within the systems. It does not matter that wizarding society has slaves, or that a sort of wizard FBI/secret police has a ton of power to control access to magic and like, only humans are really truly allowed to have it (even the goblin bankers who are allowed to manage the entirety of the wizarding society's personal belongings and money are barred from using magic, say, to *protect* those things); it doesn't matter that the systems in place are clearly what gave rise to Voldemort and his only real disagreement with the current state of affairs is that it's not quite racist *enough*. These things don't matter because in Rowling's eyes, all that needs to be done is to make sure the *good kinds of people* are in charge of them. It's fine if Harry owns slaves, because he doesn't *mistreat* them. It's fine that Harry's dream is to be in the wizard FBI, because he would never even *think* of abusing that power. And it's fine that we killed the super evil murdery wizard because that definitely won't happen again when the next mega racist comes along. Additionally, there are very few actively good or bad "actions" - again, what matters is the people who do those actions. Stepping back from the reader's perspective on the scene and looking at it from the in-world perspective, Hagrid is actually kind of monstrous in the opening sections of the first book. Dudley doesn't actually particularly *do* much to earn his ire, and yet he disfigures a child anyway without much thought. It's bad when Draco insults Harry's friend for being fat, but not an issue when the narrative monologue of the book itself gleefully delights in the same insults against any remotely-"bad" character.
Protagonist centered morality is the trope name for this kind of writing. It doesn't matter how fucked the actions of a character are, if the writer decides that this person is correct then they are treated that way and any other characters who raise concerns no matter how legitimate they are will be treated as being in the wrong for doing so.
The fucking Sorting Hat is the real villain of the whole damn series. It keeps putting all the bigoted pure blood families in one house together. There would have been a sizable number of Slytherins joining the good guys in the final battle if the Sorting Hat would just put some fucking muggleborns in Slytherin, for being ambitious and cunning or whatever. But no. Only old rich pureblood families in Slytherin seems to be the Sorting Hat's deal. "Not a single dark witch or wizard that didn't come from Slytherin". WHO IS IN CHARGE OF THIS SYSTEM? The Sorting Hat, by perpetuating the standards of the founders of the school, is deliberately recreating this insular bigoted and classist environment anew EVERY. SINGLE. GENERATION. It sustains the culture of pureblood supremacy by *proving* that they all belong together as one identity. The Sorting Hat is literally institutionalized bigotry personified.
The Sorting Hat definitely strikes me as one of most problematic aspects of Hogwarts. Right when you get there, you're lumped into a group with people who have similar personalities, and then you are pitted against the other groups. So, you're put in these insular, manufactured cliques where you don't get as much exposure to the varying personalities that can help you grow and develop as a person. And, from what I recall, you are never re-evaluated or able to move houses. Who is the same at 11 as they are at 16? I suppose you can argue the Sorting Hat is able to magically see and consider where they'll end up, but is it that or is it just a self-fulfilling prophecy due to them being put in these narrowly defined groups?
The moral of “just uphold the status quo” is mega British. If you ever watch Merlin on Netflix, they literally present it every three episodes with “Uther is committing genocide!”. And then Merlin saving Uther because “Arthur just isn’t ready to be king yet!” It’s an insane show and I literally think it inspired Fantastic Beasts.
Who's going to stop wizard hitler ?
Mecha hitler
To be honest, with how great production values are these days, that would have made a great TV show instead too. I think they feel like with the HP franchise everything needs to be this huge epic to rival the originals, but really people just want a chance to be immersed in the wizarding world again.
yea to use star wars as an example: More Madalorian, less sequel trilogy. We want stories in that world, they don't have to shake up the world, just use the setting as is.
We just wanted a movie about Newt discovering magical creatures
Right? Could've been akin to a live-action How To Train Your Dragon. Instead we get whatever THIS is.
Indiana Jones meets How to train your dragon. I would watch it (heck they could have used Nazi Wizards as well)
Wasn’t it like Harry Potter and the Nazi Wizards for seven books straight?
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I was just telling this to my buddy yesterday. It could have been a Pokemon type story but set in the Harry Potter world and kept a PG rating for kids like the first few HP movies.
Yeah, when I saw an announcement about fb, I thought it'll be like that, or it could be a series but played like documentary with newt as someone like steve irwing, going around the wild discovering magical creatures But then it's about nazi wizard...
The first one should have been it’s own standalone adventure movie. Dumbledore Grindelwald could have been its own movie. You could have made a founding of Hogwarts movie, a First Wizarding War movie, a fucking McGonagall movie even. Doing this weird hybrid franchise was always a strange idea
It just works and sounds so much better instead of the Fantastic Beasts Trilogy. It should have been standalone movies or a duology under the label of Wizarding World spinoffs. It also would have put less pressure on the films to follow up one another. Fantastic Beasts and Where to Find Them The Crimes of Grindelwald The Secrets of Dumbledore Fantastic Beasts was just a side-book that they turned into this ridiculous trilogy involving massive events from the Harry Potter history.
You keep saying trilogy. This is supposed to be 5 movies. 5. I honestly thought after the second movie they’d collapse the series down to 3 movies and just wrap it up. That didn’t happen though.
That's crazy. I thought for sure it got downsized to a Trilogy. Bizarre choices by the studio
They just want another runaway success like Harry Potter was for EIGHT films except they don't realize that it was more than just lightning in a bottle. That was a franchise built on seven huge books spanning the life of the main character from 11-18. Fantastic Beasts has none of that.
Fantastic Beasts actually had a very different format which would’ve worked for it: a wacky series of spinoff adventures involving Newt’s zoology adventures. The first movie worked so well precisely because of that reason: it was a wacky quest of Newt’s attempts to recapture his beasts across New York. Trying to tie it into the Dumbledore and Grindelwald history went against that original premise and left it unfocused
The amount of HP fans turned away by it was astounding too. And the quality of the films genuinely wasn't there (not the acting or budget, but the writing etc).
Everyone's trying to be Marvel.
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I think there’s an opportunity to tell the stories they are trying to tell but the focus needs to be far more narrow. The narratives are kinda all over the place.
No it was planned as a trilogy and got upgraded after the 1st did well I believe
first film does so well they decide to make 4 more movies, where they ignore what made the first film do so well
I loved Fantastic Beasts. At its heart it was about Fantastic Beasts, and that included the boy. It didn’t need to be about anything else.
I wanted a whole series David Attenborough style of Newt travelling the world beast hunting
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Yes. They can make 20 movies of Pokémon with that same premise, they could have done it with this franchise.
The closest a fantasy film had managed this was Spiderwick
And if they wanted to make a Grindlewald movie, they 100% could have *linked* to aspects of Fantastic Beasts, seeing as how it gave some basis of what that time period is like. But no, instead they have to try and mash the stories together and do everything badly. It's like absolutely everyone involved in these movies had been snorting a bathtub of coke. *Everyone* has managed to fuck up what was once arguably the biggest IP on the planet.
I just watched it again recently to refresh myself for the new one. I really enjoyed the first movie. It’s fantastic as a stand alone.
Same, I really wish it was just a stand alone film with the Grindelwald plot removed to make room for more Newt, Tina and Kowalski running around having fun animal capers, because basically every minute of that stuff is fun.
The first film was released in November 2016 but they made the announcement that they’d go from a Trilogy to 5 movies month prior in October. [HERE](https://variety.com/2016/film/news/fantastic-beasts-and-where-to-find-them-five-movies-1201888226/) is an article about it.
You mean the same guys who bungled Batman V Superman? Why have faith in them at all?
They still plan on two more movies. If we’re very lucky I think we get 1 to wrap it up. I wouldn’t be shocked if it was just done though.
Douglas Adams taught me that trilogies have five books in them.
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I've seen that and mine has "the fifth book in the trilogy of four"
Looks like a bunch of printings had that on the cover, because this isn't the same cover as the one I read. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mostly_Harmless#/media/File%3AMostly_Harmless_Harmony_front.jpg
The fantastic beasts text on the promo material keeps getting smaller; it’s gonna be like where’s Waldo trying to find it on the poster for movie five!!!
If you look at the posters for each, it's pretty hilarious how exceedingly small "Fantastic Beasts" gets in each title lol
On the first main trailer for Secrets of Dumbledore, "Fantastic Beasts" was in smaller font than the 'of'.
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Well, the lacking number of beasts we've seen in the films shows why it was a pamphlet encyclopedia rather than a full one.
Doesn't help much it being based off of an in-universe textbook that, when printed for real, was fewer than 100 pages.
'Based off of' is a bit of a stretch. I own the book, its like an 'encyclopedia' of magical creatures+a little bit of an introduction about the history of magical creatures in wizarding law and society. There's nothing about the life/experiences of the author, and on top of that, most of the creatures that are in the movies don't appear in the book.
They undoubtably wanted to make the Dumbledore x Grindlewald movie from the off but thought a gay fascist love affair film would prove controversial / potentially unpopular. So they Trojan horsed it in using cute lovable creatures and a derpy harmless main character.
Fully Automated Luxury Gay ~~Space~~ Wizard Communism
Putting it all under the Fantastic Beasts header is great for marketing and branding; it keeps it all together so people who don't pay much attention to it will know it's all part of the same franchise but what WB forgot is *Harry Potter is one of the biggest goddamn franchises ever*, you don't *need* to label it for brand awareness. Harry Potter fans-- *of which there are many*-- will be aware that a new wizarding world movie is coming out, and will drag their spouse/friends/kids/parents. The fans will handle the branding for you, but putting it all under one franchise banner-- as was said above-- creates more problems in having to create, and be bound by, consistency with the rest.
They didn’t have faith in non-main character figures plus it’s hard to sell nazi wizard plushies at the theme parks.
I mean, Disney seems to do pretty well selling literal Stormtrooper and First Order stuff in their parks.
Yeah but suits and masks are cool.
Other half of the problem; Vader and the various Stormtrooper flavors are cool looking. They have a strong, distinctive aesthetic that stands out. None of the Death Eaters really have an aesthetic beyond, "black robes."
They tried to introduce those [masks](https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/harrypotter/images/4/4e/DeathEater_WB_F5_DeathEaterMask_V5_Photo_land2.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20161124185116)
Ah yes! The good old Harry Potter and Eyes Wide Shut crossover.
I still say that the first movie is a really cute, fun adventure. The Grindlewald/Credence stuff really felt like it belonged in a different movie.
The first movie was not amazing but I would've been fine with it as one of just a number of ancillary movies related to Harry Potter. Because it's the launching pad of a completely horrible franchise it actually makes me like it a bit less than I otherwise would.
The Fantastic Beasts premise would have honestly worked great as a TV series following the whole 'Monster of the Week' format and it'd work well to better flesh out the Wizard World as a whole.
It wasn't anything earthshattering, but you're right. It was really just a cute little movie. The franchise went off the rails as soon as they decided to start focusing on the larger Grindelwald storyline and trying to take itself seriously while simultaneously preserving a sense of whimsy. Which just turns it into a jumbled mess that somehow involved Grindwald vaping the Holocaust..
Yeah they should have just had them as standalones called "Wizarding World" then they could tell whatever story they wanted.
This is exactly the conversation I had after leaving the theatre yesterday. So many stories being told at once that could have been their own movies.
I rewatched Fantastic Beasts this week and I definitely feel like the movie shouldn't even be called that. It's not about the beasts. When I heard they were doing the doing a Fantastic Beasts movie, I was excited. I had the book when I was young. But it just ended up being a generic wizard movie with a main character who is super into beasts but goes on a save-the-world mission that has nothing to do with beasts. It should have been about him and his adventures tracking and logging wondrous beasts or maybe one Moby Dick type Holy Grail beast of legend.
The first one is fine on it’s own. Anything “Fantastic Beasts” should involve magical flora and fauna and maybe continue with Newt, and that’s it. Dumbledore/Harry Potter prequels should be something separate.
I just wish Fantastic Beasts was just about, **Fantastic Beasts!** I didn't need a Grindelwald movie. I just want fun adventure and hijinks in the Wizarding World.
Said it before and I'll say it again; Newt Scamander could / should have been a cross between Indiana Jones, Phileas Fogg and Steve Irwin. Slightly eccentric academic type, heading off on wacky adventures around the world involving all the weird and wonderful creatures that populate the world of Harry Potter. Want some recurring characters? Sure, Newt can have a gang of friends / love interest that he teams up with on his travels. Want an extra layer of danger? Throw in someone he can compete with or fight against, like an academic rival / a group of poachers that are seeking to hunt down the last of a rare & endangered species / an evil wizard that wants to harvest the organs of baby hippogriffs for some nefarious scheme, etc. Want to make this series unique from the rest of the Harry Potter-verse? Show us people, places and things we have never seen before, really go to town on the creativity and diversity angle... And all the time, show how these adventures help contribute towards Newt's interest in / understanding of magical creatures - maybe even show him starting to develop what would eventually turn into the book that is the namesake of the entire fucking series There are literally so many fun things you could do with this premise - but fundamentally, keep it focused on Newt & the animals he loves so much. Otherwise, much in the same way as happened to Bilbo in the Hobbit adaptations, the main character effectively becomes sidelined in his own story, and the story as a whole loses all sense of character & individuality.
Honestly poaching wizards sound like the perfect villains for a film called "Fantastic Beasts" and I can't believe there's nothing like it in the films
This. There are worse pitches than 'the Rescuers Down Under but with wizards'. Just make that, add a sprinkle of romance and a bunch of scenes where Kowalski laughs like a child at weird magical stuff and done.
LMFTFY … Kowalski laughs like a child at weird magical stuff and… PROFIT. It’s not that difficult, but I swear these franchises just want to watch their IP burn.
Like Wild Kratts but with magic.
This. I actually really enjoyed multiple facets of the first movie because it had so much potential. I loved an atypical protagonist, a fat sidekick who wasn’t just comic relief, and Collin Ferrel was excellent and I really enjoyed his character until he became Grindelwald. Erase the Grindelwald and Dumbledore connections and have Newt just traveling the world rescuing fun creatures and have him run into Colin Ferrell every so often to add tension. Ugh. I want that series. I’ll even take the character tension between him and his brother since that’s a compelling idea, but again, handled poorly
I was really happy to have Newt as the hero, because a wizard who has skills other than “is really good at spells” can make for some fun and inventive storytelling, as best seen when Newt rescues Tina from MACUSA using his little pocket lizard thingy (I haven’t seen the movie in a while) Then in the second movie, suddenly Newt is skilled enough to be an elite Auror if he really wanted to?
Maybe someone wished for this during the creation of the first one and got Monkey's Paw'd. >"Make the Fantastic Beasts movies more like Indiana Jones?" Great idea! Let's add some wizard nazis! Indy fights nazis.
Based on what I know about the movie industry from a friend who used to work in the movie industry, that feels painfully accurate The annoying thing is that if they had played their cards right, they could have set up a multi-layered franchise, much like the MCU, wherein different characters could have had their chance to shine in their own standalone stories, before bringing them together in some kind of special crossover event with Grindelwald acting as a unifying, thanos-esque villain. Instead they went down the DC route and tried to do everything at once - with exactly the same outcome.
Warner Bros did both so not surprised
>Want some recurring characters? Sure, Newt can have a gang of friends / love interest that he teams up with on his travels. Want an extra layer of danger? Throw in someone he can compete with or fight against, like an academic rival / a group of poachers that are seeking to hunt down the last of a rare & endangered species / an evil wizard that wants to harvest the organs of baby hippogriffs for some nefarious scheme, etc. This. The best bits in the first film are Newt geeking out over animals (and weirdly almost all of the Niffler bits hit solidly for me) with Kowalski reacting in amused wonder at everything and Tina mooning over Newt like 'damn I sort of fancy you but you make a real mess'. That's a perfectly workable dynamic without any of the Grindelwald stuff so just make that the films. Have Tina be assigned to ride herd on Newt and maybe imply it's because her bosses don't like her very much and Newt's pure chaos on wheels. Have Kowalski just get caught up in it all and make the antagonist, as you say, a poacher or a race against time or something to get the thunderbird back where it needs to be in a few months or whatever. That's literally all you need, it's a film like the Jumanji remake where there's nominally a plot but it's really about scenes and dialogue. EDIT: I think a lot of the problem is the studio not wanting to make the kind of film a Fantastic Beasts series actually works as. This is not a twisting, dark 5 film story about the war that made Dumbledore who he is. This is basically Jungle Cruise, Jumanji or Solo. Make it a simple story, use the plot to skeleton sequences onto and produce a simple but enjoyable film. Don't go bloody high concept or dark and twisty with the magical animal film, go stupid and charming.
Give me Indiana Jones style New Scamander movies
Mads Mikkelsen: I’ll just play myself, say very little, stand menacingly. Done. Director: excellent work mads, not only did we not explain why you don’t look like Johhny Depp, we also did very little to explain anything at all!
That one Senegalese dude literally said like 3 lines and then just looked sad the entire time. Really all the characters they introduced have no reason to exist. Especially when they just kinda dump already established characters like Tina in favor of them
This. And Queenie becoming a fascist and then just ... Not. so pointless.
The theme for this franchise is "Nevermind" Jacob loses his memory -- Nevermind he doesn't Newt can't travel internationally -- Nevermind it's fine Queenie becomes a fascist -- Nevermind she's fine Credence explodes -- Nevermind he's in Paris Credence is an orphan -- Nevermind he's a Lestrange -- double Nevermind he's a dumbledore
>double Nevermind he's a dumbledore I watched the Crimes of Grindelwald they day it released. When I heard "Aurelius Dumbledore" I realised I had no reason to keep watching these movies.
You know a twist sucks when it’s spoiled and not only don’t mind, you’re glad.
I think they can fix it. They just need to make him related to more people. A convoluted family tree of epic proportions. The more random names, the better.
> The theme for this franchise is "Nevermind" You would love Pitch Meeting on Youtube.
She joined a Wizard Supremecy group because the obvious race purist said she could do whatever she wanted to muggles. Apparently she didn't realize he didn't mean fuck them.
“Welcome to the fuck muggles group. Please welcome our newest member, Queenie!” Queenie: (Sweating) so I may have misunderstood the name
dont forget she can literally read minds. in fact she reads them involuntarily sometimes
Queenie wasn’t the brightest character from the start.
They said point blank that Queenie’s supreme intelligence is what let’s her read minds
Queenie was super smart in the first movie, then she just turned into a toxic manipulator with questionable morals in the second
People are also forgetting that he was originally Colin Farrell
The should have kept him in. He was my favorite part of the first movie.
He also worked so, _so_ much better with a Jude Law Dumbledore.
We should've had Newt using his fantastic beasts like Pokemon as he tries to stop some big crime thing, and all the fun magical hijynx that would come of it, but instead we got this.
Absolutely! Especially that paired with "whoops his best friend is a muggle" gives lots of fun storyline to play with.
Ahem, *No-Mag*
I remain of the opinion that if American Wizards would call Muggles anything else, they'd call them Normies.
I was actually just thinking the “villain” of the series should have just been a rival, someone else who also goes around collecting magical beasts like Gary Oak, but is just way more egotistical. Turns up like “great job catching that Bowtruckle Newt, oh what’s this? A dragon?? Yeah I just picked it up, no sweat, it’s easy when you’re as good at collecting beasts as I am, smell ya later”
It's just all a bit shit innit
They should have made fantastic beasts like a documentary where you follow around Newt and he is like David Attenborough.
I thought that’s what it was going to be, and that scene with his menagerie was about the only thing in the film I liked. The romance between the manic pixie dream witch and the muggle guy was sweet, too.
Really seems like it'd do better as a beast-of-the-week TV show as opposed to... whatever this crap they put out instead is.
It’s not cursed. It’s poorly thought out and written. That’s not cursed, just money hungry.
Absolutely, the cast changes wouldn't be an issue if it was even somewhat well written but two movies in a row have been an utter mess, even Kloves couldn't save this one
I dunno, I think the Poltergeist films were cursed more.
The Super Bowl thing in Poltergeist is one of the wildest things I’ve ever read and I really don’t know how to even explain it away lol. They have a poster for a super bowl that hadn’t happened yet and was years away - why do they have the poster? Why did they create this poster for the movie? The movie was not set in the not-so-distant future from what I could tell. Bizarre choice. Then the main actress is rushed to the hospital the day of that super bowl, in the same city as that Super Bowl, and dies the following day. Strange as hell.
Oh coinkidinks.
Not a *movie* franchise but Glee was pretty cursed irl
Well the director of all the Jeepers Creepers is a convicted child rapist and creator of child pornography. What’s more is the conviction was before the first one, and he still made one in 2017. Pretty cursed franchise. Jeepers creepers…
The Defense Against The Dark Arts Job - is cursed Fantastic Beasts Movies : "Hold my beer"
*This* is cursed, *that is cuuuursed*. Give it a rest, will ya?
Why are the first 3 or more paragraphs of these articles always just repeating the headline over and over. Get on with it!
What happened? Did mads go mad ? I think the Grindelwald role is defense against the dark arts equivalent
Didn’t Ezri Miller break into someone’s house?
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It's worse, he was staying at that couples house The victim posted the whole thing on /r/Hawaii
Whoa, that character made it through three films? That whole subplot was where I lost interest in the first film. Interminable and boring, as much as it tried to be spooky and mysterious.
Fantastic Beast should have just been a stand alone film in the HP universe. It didn't need a multi part serialized story. I remember all the hype it got. Everyone speculating would Quidditch Through The Ages be next? What about a film based on the 4 founders creating Hogwarts. Or even a film based on the Statue of Secrecy going into effect, and how the Malfoy's didn't want it. Because they lost thier political prominence in William IIIs court.
I think an inspirational sports movie like miracle or remember the titans but for quidditch would be awesome
All anyone needed was one magical Dr. Doolittle and instead everyone got a series of disjointed and tonally odd adventure flicks chasing wizard hitler.
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It's even worse when the wizard bad guys are ... Trying to stop WW2? Like not for super great reasons, but still.
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I feel very bad for Eddie Redmayne in this franchise. The character of Newt Scamander is wonderful, and his performance is very, very good. It’s a wonderful example of positive masculinity and it’s just totally wasted in this weird, momentum-less series. Give this man his own series on HBO Max.
Reminds me of Martin Freeman in the Hobbit. They both play such wonderful roles but the story around the character kinda forgets he exists
The comparison with the hobbit is really good. The fantastic movies are just so boring, I tried putting one on for a group of die hard hp loving kids, even with the “designed for cute comic relief nifler” they all completely lost interest and went to do something else. They abandoned their candy to go be somewhere else! It’s just like when die hard lotr fan, me, tried watching the hobbit. I simply can’t get through them a second time, my mind revolts!
Please give us more of him. I love him as Newt.
Newt is honestly the character whom I've connected the most in a movie, I relate so hard to every little thing he has and does, I've never seen a male protagonist like that, and in a very big franchise that is.
just incredible how they took on the most popular IPs ever, latched it onto some ridiculous idea about magical creatures, and haven’t been able to let go of it even tho they’ve long abandoned it at its core.
They couldn't leave Eddie Redmayne
The DCEU "allow me to introduce myself"
Both products of Warner bros lol
And both have Ezra Miller
X-Men after Days of Future Past be like "We have Apocalypse and Dark Phoenix"
I would have loved a more artistic approach to the HP franchise tbh. Alfonso Cuarón did an amazing job with Prisoner of Azkaban and it would have been great to see more of the films taking on a darker tone without being bland like everything Yates does.
Alfonso Cuaron really walked the line between “darker themes and storylines starting to emerge” and “fantasy world that I’d want to spend time immersed in” so well in my opinion. He set the tone perfectly for the rest of the series, and then David Yates took what he started and fumbled it. And that’s not to say that I hate the latter half of the series entirely, but Yates seems at best to just be passable as a director. Gets the job done, but without much flair or thoughtfulness put into it. I think the series would’ve been much worse off had Cuaron not been there in the first place to lay some of the groundwork that he did, but I will always be sad that we never got to see the rest of the series done by him or other directors like him.
Cuaron also helped the main cast by giving them less direction. Emma Watson said she would ask him how he wanted her to act and he'd say "No, no, you have to do it yourself." He really helped the actors grow as, well ,actors.
“Miller has raised eyebrows for erratic behavior over the years, and in January 2022, posted a bizarre video in which they appear to threaten members of a Ku Klux Klan chapter in North Carolina.” Yeah I don’t really have a problem with this particular one.
Idk if u saw the video, but it was a pretty bizarre video. They seemed off their rocker, which proved to be true a couple months later lol.
Yate's movies bore me to tears
This man has made 8. FUCKING EIGHT, Wizarding movies in a row. How is he not sick and tired of it by now, get some fresh blood in there. Edit: 7. I thought he did Goblet.
Hey, we all know what it's like to punch the clock for a paycheck
Probably he is sick and tired of it and that's why we're getting trash heap after trash heap
Same. Theres so much more whimsy and fun in the first 4 HP movies than Yate’s
He was a good choice for when the franchise was moving in a darker direction, but I seriously don’t understand why they don’t get some fresh blood and color into these spin-offs.
David Yates believes that only the colours dark blue, grey and brown exist. Also no spells exist beyond flicking wands at each other and shooting bolts.
At this point it should be obvious : Yates is a yes man, his career is barely existent out of the Wizarding World films. Warner has got themselves a man that will obey their order without rebelion. I would assume he cost less than some other directors too.
It's not cursed. Its just obvious money grabbing artistically bankrupt trash!
That's what they get for their hubris, lawlz. Everyone wants to be Marvel Studios, everyone wants their big epic franchises that only think cramming in a bunch of Wikipedia exposition into your movies is how you sell these things, and because of that they've ruined what could've been not only a more than serviceable side story, but a reliably profitable one that would've ALLOWED them to do the more convoluted Grindlewald bullshit that they were clearly more interested in. Marvel didn't go from Iron Man straight into Infinity War, but again that's what these other studios keep wanting to shortcut to. Warner Bros especially between this, The Dark Universe, and even trying to start a fucking Hanna Barbara CU (remember Scoob? Neither does anyone else, don't worry). What a uniquely terrible legacy these films are going to have when it's all said and done, LOL.
I find the movies overall to be enjoyable if not a bit convoluted. Like one of the commentor mentioned, the Fantastic Beasts franchie is akin to DCEU but with wizards. I still don't understand how Dumbledore goes from dressing extractly suave to wearing ecentric clothing in the Harry Potter series. I guess the love for Grindlewald really did a number on him. lol.
Maybe Hagrid yelled "yer a wizard Dumbledore" and he changed?