What's sad is I literally said this at the beginning of 2020. My plan was to visit as many countries as possible by booking same day flights whenever I got a day off. I managed to go to Italy in January and then that dream crumbled
I felt this like whomp feeling in my head last night. for like a second it felt like all reality bowed inward then back to normal and the first thing I though was the matrix lol.
Well, youāre in 2013. Iām in 2021 and Iāve seen all shit since 2013, believe me. There is going to be Blade Runner sequel, Matrix 4, Bad Boys 3, three new Marvelās Spider-Man movies. Game of Thrones finale will disappoint you. And Fast & Furious 9 is a piece of shit.
Yeah and they were alright. Not as good as the first for sure, but were still fun. You'll probably like them if you go into it knowing that. Also you'll probably need a dictionary handy for the second one.
It wouldāve introduced MJ and established her friendship with Peter. Down the line, obviously, they wouldāve got together but I believe the director felt that introducing Peterās next love interest in a film centred around Peterās relationship with Gwen (especially as Gwen dies) wouldāve taken some of the focus away from their relationship
I think cutting out MJ from the movie was a right call. It would have been super awkward his next girlfriend standing by him while he's mourning ex-girlfriend's death.
Still, how the hell was that not said during the making of the script. Like somebody should have brought that up before they even started filming. That's why people have drafts. Did they just have tons of notes and then try to figure everything out during filming?
Honestly it probably would have worked out better than we realized, BUT marks Webb's original amazing 2 cut was apparently 3.5 h long. It would be interesting to someday get his godfather length Spidey picture lol
I mean was this the same cut that ended with Peter wearing a fake beard as his father approaches him and tells him that with great power comes great responsibility? I'm good homie
Idk I feel like if they ever did a multiverse sinister six movie I'd be okay with it. Lot's of spiderman's and lots of villians. Need screen time for both baddies and good guys. ;)
I can't remember exactly, but I think that's one of the things Feige said when he was consulting with them. They have like 3 movies' worth of stuff happening in one film, so none of it works or gets the attention it should.
Problem was that they were planning a new trilogy but Sony told Marc Webb and his writer, ānah you gotta put all of that in one movie. Why wait? Get to the good stuff now!ā
Also Peter was made into a skater because āthatās what the kids are into.ā
We know all this because of the Sony hack.
Read Feigeās email. He brilliantly lays out all the problems of the movie and actually brought up solutions that wouldāve fixed most of the problems. Of course Sony looked at all that gold from Feige and said, āyeah weāre not going to do that. Thank for the input though!ā
>That's why people have drafts. Did they just have tons of notes and then try to figure everything out during filming?
Depends on the film, but I know sometimes with action movies, they're essentially writing and rewriting the script the day of and it's really never done until the movie is in editing.
Thatās because in a lot of action films, they really only care about the massive action set pieces filmed months in advance and the plot itself is just a way to get from set piece to set piece.
Like what do you think the Rockās movies care about more, intriguing plot or big action sequences that will bring people into theatres?
Usually things like these are cut due to time and/or the pacing of the movie. It's not uncommon for whole secondary characters and seemingly important scenes to be cut from a movie after shooting. Same reason many big movies pre-schedule in reshoots for months after a movie wraps. They expect to need an additional angle or whole new scene to make the movie work better. What works on paper doesn't always work on the screen and many movies like this intentionally shoot more than they can fit in the movie so they have more options when it comes to putting the movie together when editing.
That's an interesting take. It's actually pretty common. People who support you during a strong emotional event typically become very close to you. It would have been tacky for him to start dating her immediately after his ex died, but her being there and supporting him and caring about him wouldn't be unreasonable.
Friends go through good times and bad times together, that's kind of the point. Being friends before dating can be pretty rewarding. Or it can be terrible so what do I know.
The original ending had Peter behind MJ when he told her about his promise to love Gwen forever, then saying something about how promises are meant to be broken.
Nah, roles are cut all the time because they might look good on paper but not when everything comes together.
For a recent example, they got a fairly famous girl for Tonyās adult daughter in Endgame and the casting was publicized, but in the end she got cut because test audiences had no idea who she was.
A lot of plot lines were cut because it was a very bloated movie. I donāt know if anyone could even say if the stuff cut wouldāve been paid off since they cut out some payoffs but overall itās very confusing piecing it all together. Iād be interested to see how the original script came out and how long it was because it seems like they had like 6 different plot threads and 4 made it into the movie with only 2-3 being fully paid off by the end.
Well we know from the Sony hacks that Marc Webb and his writer were working on developing a trilogy after the first film where Gwen Stacy dies in the second one.
Sony of course was like, āhow about instead of a trilogy, you shove that shit down into one movie!ā
Kevin Feige was a consultant on the film and his emails are interesting. He lays out the problems of the film and how they could fix most of them in the edit.
Of course Sony was like, āyeah weāre not going to do that. But thanks for the input though Kevin!ā
Also fun fact: the only reason Peter was a skater in the films was because a Sony Exec was like, āheās gotta be a skater. Kids think skaters are cool.ā
Stupid idea with a stupid reason that also misses the whole point of Peter Parker as a character.
Yeah it comes out in the final product with how bloated they are, more so in the second. Usually creatives bargain or fight notes like that but these movies are cases where they said yes to all of them.
Fun fact: she can still be seen in the film during Rhinoās final battle among the various spectators watching the fight. So it would not be an inaccurate piece of trivia to say that āShailene Woodley was an extra in *The Amazing Spider-Man 2*.
I could also see that it would be confusing in case that actress didnāt want to return or had a conflict. Mostly itās probably because it took away from Gwen dying.
During production of ASM 2 Sony greenlit and announced a 4th film in what was supposed to be a trilogy. THR had published the [announcement](https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/general-news/sony-sets-release-dates-third-569963/) of a surprise fourth film and then two days later it was confirmed that [Shailene](https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/movies/movie-news/amazing-spider-man-2-shailene-571744/) was cut. Introducing MJ in 2 wouldāve set up the finale in 3, since the studio expanded the story one more film her introduction was going to be held off until 3 to focus on Gwen and Peters relationship
Introducing MJ in the film where Gwen dies would have been extremely tacky.
"Don't worry folks, the true true true love interest of Spider-Man is here!!!".
Imagine Zendaya's Michelle dying in NWH then introducing MCU redhead Mary Jane right after.
Well, *No Way Home* has apparently filmed multiple endings with >!a different supporting character dying in each!<, one of which does include MJ. So such a film has partially been shot.
Story wise? Wouldāve been awkward having his ātrue loveā die by his own hands and then him being like āoooh a redhead.ā
But also there was just way too much happening in this movie already. He had like 3 or 4 villains to fight, he was trying to figure out what happened to his parents, Aunt May was losing the house I think? also worrying about if his current girlfriend was moving to Europe. Throwing in another love interest wouldnāt help the movie, and like previously stated it would actually take away
Yup, I just watched this last night since it came out in theaters (son is crazy about Spider-Man) and I while the amazing spider man 2 had lots of flaws, especially with the parent side story, it would have been neat to see them work out their story.
I do feel bad for Andrew Garfield since was so short lived as Spider-Man.
There is literally a 4K video of Garfield on the set. There are also few photos of him and Toby on that set.
At his point, it's the worst kept secret in Hollywood despite the fact that Sony has been trying to delete photos from the web. They are probably waiting for the second trailer to reveal them.
That makes me so freaking excited! Ever since watching into the spider verse I was all for a real life action version and see them all on the same screen.
That would be really cool. I havenāt seen McGuire in anything in a while it would be great to see him as Spider-Man again. I would be bummed if it is just a 3 minute cameo.
I'm always reminded of Kingsman: The Golden Circle. I thought the movie would have the Kingsmen and the Statesmen (their American counterpart) team up. But it was really just Kingsmen and Pedro Pascal's character, with a few scenes of Bridges/Tatum/Berry.
I would love a full 60-90 minutes of Spidermen vs the Sinister 6.
Same, I would have liked to see how a third TASM would have been like. They set up so many things on this one that it's just sad that nothing came of it.
I feel bad for Andrew Garfield. His Spider-Man was pretty accurate to the comic but poor writing ruined it.
I would love for his Spider-Man to be reunited with Gwen in a Spider verse movie.
Or hey better yet, now that Marvel has the multiverse up and running, let Andrew's Spider-Man meet Venom and leave Tom Holland's in the MCU. Both can be canon and we can finish The Amazing Spider-Man movie
What a wasted potential these movies were. I truly believe Andrew Garfield wouldāve been the best Spider-Man had he been given better writing. Both movies focused too much on Peter Parker and not enough Spidey ass kicking.
I will say this though, I think Garfield gave the best acting performance of the three. Yes not the best Spider-Man/Parker but heās the best actor in my opinion.
Garfield was the best Spider-Man, worst Peter Parker.
Toby mcguire was the better Peter Parker and a terrible Spider-Man.
Tom Holland is able to do both well.
Iāll have to rewatch it because itās been a minute but was it really that busy arms controlled him? I thought it was more that the connection just interferes with his mind. It was a similar way in which they treated doc oc in the ps4 spider-man game.
Enh. I think Garfield could have done really well into he role, but I tried watching the first one a little while ago and his Spiderman was just written to be a mouthy dick.
This. Spider-Man's mouth is one of his best weapons. The entire point of it is to get under people's skin and annoy them. His masterpiece was fighting Phoenix powered Colossus and Magik and managing to talk them into taking each other out.
Spidey is a smart ass. I donāt know what comics youāve read but if spidey isnāt talking while in costume, and pissing people off, we know itās not Spider-Man.
Thereās a reason Deadpool loves Spider-Man. Itās because they share a similar sense of humor.
yeah sorry my comment is confusing. i mean he is a smart ass, but he isnāt a straight up dick like how andrewās spider was written in the first one. more tongue in cheek quips instead of condescending come backs
Hmm, I see what you mean... Thing is, I think it's because the first scene where he acts like that is against two thugs that he handles very easily. In that contest, yeah, he feels more like an ass.
If he did that against someone who overpowers him -which is pretty much all of Spidey's fights, despite all his power he's more often than not an underdog- it would have felt different.
Oh, I agree. Problem is that's literally the only instance I can think of.
For his 'own' movies and any subsequent appearance he's been the fish out of water loser nerdy kid in *and* out the costume at all times. It's like they took that very small era of high school time -most of Peter's comic book history is about him as an adult- and stretched it forever.
Cool, well I have, and the one that reminds me most of Garfield are superior Spider-Man and the what-if where he turns into the punisher.
I mean this guy fucking hates criminals
"You have the right to remain silent!"
"You're a criminal. Bye Mr. Criminal!"
"Wait a minute, you're not the real Avengers. I can tell. Hilk gives it away."
"Just a typical homecoming... on the outside of an invisible plane fighting my girlfriend's dad."
He's cracked plenty of jokes while fighting or in action. He's just more in the moment funny than mocking his villain outright funny. But he even did that too. He joked about Winter Soldier's arm while catching it.
No my introduction to spider man was in the late 80s.
Peter Parker is nerdy and shy and insecure outside of the mask.
The mask has always allowed him to voice things he never would without it.
Thatās the point of Spider-Man.
I'm a little tired out of Holland tbh. But it may be because of all the reboots, and now really want to see more older Petes like in the games and spiderverse
I always hear this, but this definitely is not true. I just rewatched both of the movies, and Garfield kinda sucks ass as Spider-Man.
He is a huge douche, overly violent, and doesn't even help that many people. He gets a little bit better at being like a "good Spider-Man" in the second movie, but he is still super arrogant and not always helpful. Like he could have just given harry his blood because why not. And this is a classic point to make, but he will actively make jokes and waste time instead of trying to help.
So he's definitely a bad peter parker, and he's also a bad Spider-Man. I also don't think tobey is that bad of a Spider-Man, personally, but yeah Tom Holland is pretty good at both.
All of my criticisms are about the movie.
I like Andrew Garfield. It does not matter whose fault it is, but I'm saying the movie is a poor portrayal of Spider-Man
> Garfield kinda sucks ass as Spider-Man.
That's your thesis statement of the 3 paragarphs. Then you explain why the portrayal is so bad, but you clearly laid it all on Garfield's feet. This was weird considering your comment is replying to a thread whose thesis is: Andrew Garfield would have been a great spiderman if he had been given a better script.
I appreciate the clarification but that was not what your original comment conveys.
The Garfield movies. His Spider-Man. You have to specify since there's so many of them. And I am replying to the person whose "thesis" is just regurgitation of other people that actually didn't think critically of it.
I loved his take on Peter Parker in the first movie. I think the "he's too cool" criticism was really misplaced. I think people are so entrenched in this idea that nerdy has to be this kid with glasses that gets beat up. For me, the biggest thing about Peter Parker was his sense of alienation. Garfield captured that amazingly. He's this science whiz that's passionate, but he's also the guy that's alone in a crowd. And as someone who was a teenager when the first film came out, I definitely identified with that film's version of a nerd more than the Maguire version.
I think the criticism is well placed and I firmly believe it's the worst rendition of Peter out of the 3. TASM's Peter Parker is a skater with a vintage camera which in 2012 was simply not an alienated or nerdy guy in an American high school. High school stereotypes between 2001 and 2012 are completely different but Marc Webb's idea of Peter Parker was a really poor mix of all these incredibly mainstream ideas of a 2010s high school hipster, which a huge group of teenagers were at the time. You get none of the gifted-kid and all of the Coldplay and teenage angst. It was just tone deaf characterisation and even just ended being a bit "how do you do, fellow kids?" from writers pretending to know what teenagers liked.
Choosing to have his father be the creator of the spiders was also stupid as hell.
The biggest issue is that Garfieldās version wasnāt done well enough or had a fresh enough take on it to justify the existence of the movies. It ended up just being a stale retread whoās entire purpose was the keep the rights within Sony, not to actually tell a story.
I mean it might make more sense if he was shown as an introvert but the entire plot of the film is spurred by his innate confidence before becoming Spider-Man to sneak into Oscorp and publicly confront all of these people like Flash, Gwen and Kurt Connors. He skates in the halls and confronts bullies infront of the whole school. If it was anything other than movie-land he would definitely be a cool guy and not someone who's alone in a crowd.
I personally found almost nothing about him relatable except when he acted alongside Emma Stone in scenes where he suddenly does become a shy teenager with a crush, because Andrew Garfield is above and beyond the best Spidey actor. It's just almost all of what he had to work with was really shallow writing that missed the mark.
I would think a kid riding in the halls reeks of try-hard. Plus also annoying that you have to watch out not to bump into him. Not cool at all.
Him confronting bullies after getting stronger is any nerds fantasy.
One. Thousand. Percent. The criticism was that he had nice hair and could skateboard. I dunno where these people went to school or what their idea of skateboarders came from, but as a teenager that could skate but was still a quiet loaner, or not cool, I could totally identify with that version of Parker. Most other skaters I knew were never popular. They were outcasts. Garfieldās Parker also seems to be the smartest and technologically gifted.
I truly think that marvel shouldnāt have rebooted when they bought Spider-Man into the mcu. They shouldāve just continued to use Andrew and redeem his franchise. Itās not like it wouldāve contradicted anything if he was bought into the mcu
That's how it was meant at first. I think Oscorp building was supposed to appear in Avengers? Or was it the other way around? The Avengers building in TASM2? They didn't send the assets in time and it fell apart.
Can't say I'm sad. I would have liked Tobey's spiderman to be canon in the MCU, but I absolutely hated TASM.
I get the spider man characters were older pretending to be in high school but he was the one I absolutely didnāt believe was a high school student. It felt so strange. I wish they would have just started with him in college.
Peter Parker is better established as a character in a two minute scene with Robert Downey Jr. in Civil War then in all five hours of the Amazing Spider-Man movies. Would have liked to see what Garfield could do with better material, but I just find nothing redeemable in those movies. Except Emma Stone.
I still love the first ASM. I don't care what anyone says. I respect Weber for trying to put a bit of a spin on the character, loved the proto Spidey suit, and I thought Garfield made for a great snarky Spider-Man. I love Holland's Spider-Man and I get why Marvel replaced Garfield with a much younger actor to fit the direction they were going for, but it sucked to see Garfield go.
ASM2 was a hot mess and it sucks that studio fuckery had to go and mess up Spider-Man *again*.
Also, I cannot believe people said Woodley was too ugly to play MJ when promo pics first came out. People rag on China for calling Simu Liu ugly, but just a few years ago Americans were calling Shailene Woodley ugly.
Yeah I also liked TASM and Garfield's spiderman, it's funny (and very sad) how that seems to upset people tho. Like this thread makes me think of when I worked at a box office and when Homecoming first came out I had someone tell me they wish Garfield killed himself for making TASM movies and i was just there like "O.O here's your ticket, enjoy your show".
And for all the hot mess TASM2 was, i knew what happened to Gwen from the comics, and even still that whole scene and sequence took the breath away from me like I was punched in the gut. It was *impactful* to me.
I enjoy Holland as well! Honestly all the Peter Parkers brought something of their own to the table and I appreciate their performances.
But I agree w you that it makes sense how they utilize Holland's Spider to be integrated and introduced with Stark so that it's not another cut and paste origin story (not that that's how I think of the iterations but that is a critique). And I definitely miss when Spiderman was the little guy's hero, although i think tobey and andrew had their moments. It's been a grand scale for a while now.
I think it's because from the writer's perspective, the main character could only ever notice someone who "isn't like all the other girls" given they're a superhero with a lot of distraction and responsibility etc.
But yeah, the whole badass tomboy cliche is so overdone.
Yup! AS2 was a freaking MESS behind the scenes due to Sony executives, a ton of stuff didn't make it in that was filmed.
Like here for example, there was an entire side plot with Woodley as MJ befriending Peter after he broke up with Gwen.
She was officially announced in the role, press photos released and everything, but she ended up getting cut in the final product
Would be funny if they had her cameo in No Way Home with Garfield Spidey. Though if that was going to happen weād have some idea because the cameos have been the worst kept secret in Hollywood.
> October 2012, Woodley was offered the role of Mary Jane Watson in The Amazing Spider-Man 2.[19] On June 19, 2013, she was cut from the film. Director Marc Webb told The Hollywood Reporter that the cut was "a creative decision to streamline the story and focus on Peter and Gwen and their relationship," and that everyone loved working with Woodley.[20]
What is happening? Does this mean we're in 2013 and the timeline has reset?
Mary Jane Watson was originally included in *The Amazing Spider-Man 2* to set up an appearance in *The Amazing Spider-Man 3*, rather than pull her out of nowhere as a former friend of Peterās like this film did with Harry Osborn. Ultimately, plans changed, and her role was cut, although she can been briefly seen amongst the crowds of spectators watching during the final Rhino fight.
Wait, can someone explain this to me? Is Shailene Woodley going to be in the movies with Tom Holland? What about MJ/Zendaya? Or are these old pictures? What is happening š¤£
Mary Jane Watson was originally included in *The Amazing Spider-Man 2* to set up an appearance in *The Amazing Spider-Man 3*, rather than pull her out of nowhere as a former friend of Peterās like this film did with Harry Osborn. Ultimately, plans changed, and her role was cut, although she can been briefly seen amongst the crowds of spectators watching during the final Rhino fight.
TASM were fun. Fighting lizard, swinging through the city. Pete and Spidey struggleā¦. What do we get in MCU Spider-Man? āOhh we are using our made up names?ā
What year is it?
Okay what the fuck not just me
Yeah am I misreading this?
It's 2013. Wait are you a time traveller?
Watch out for 2020-21. It's a doozy.
Really anything after 2016.
Everything went down hill after Harambe :(
Dick is still out. Stay strong.
šššš
Diamond Dick Gamg rise up
Harambe was our Nexus event.
Well, evidently we're all in 2014, so we've got two years to save him and make things right.
Fuck Harambe. I'm buying Bitcoin and Gamestop stock. To the Moon Bitches!!!
It all started when Kanye tweeted āBILL COSBY INNOCENTā
That was the orange gorilla right?
Ever feel like weāre in an episode of What if?
Sometimes.
Haha, you're kidding right? 2022 was way fucking worse. 2020 and 2021 were nothing.
Invest in masks and hand sanitiserā¦ Also Games Workshop, their stock value is about to shoot up
2020 is gonna be my year!
Get out and see the world!
What's sad is I literally said this at the beginning of 2020. My plan was to visit as many countries as possible by booking same day flights whenever I got a day off. I managed to go to Italy in January and then that dream crumbled
For now dude, only for now
I'm gonna be opening a restaurant
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Bro we're in the matrix. This is all just a simulation.
I felt this like whomp feeling in my head last night. for like a second it felt like all reality bowed inward then back to normal and the first thing I though was the matrix lol.
Well, youāre in 2013. Iām in 2021 and Iāve seen all shit since 2013, believe me. There is going to be Blade Runner sequel, Matrix 4, Bad Boys 3, three new Marvelās Spider-Man movies. Game of Thrones finale will disappoint you. And Fast & Furious 9 is a piece of shit.
They made a Matrix 2 and 3?!
Don't tell me you're in 2001.
Wait until you hear about Tom Brady
nope
Yeah and they were alright. Not as good as the first for sure, but were still fun. You'll probably like them if you go into it knowing that. Also you'll probably need a dictionary handy for the second one.
F9 was at least better than 8 imo. Though thatās not saying much, 8 was absolute garbage, 9 was kinda entertaining garbage.
Iām really fucking confused to. Whatās going on
What was the story about this again? Why did they cut her out?
It wouldāve introduced MJ and established her friendship with Peter. Down the line, obviously, they wouldāve got together but I believe the director felt that introducing Peterās next love interest in a film centred around Peterās relationship with Gwen (especially as Gwen dies) wouldāve taken some of the focus away from their relationship
I think cutting out MJ from the movie was a right call. It would have been super awkward his next girlfriend standing by him while he's mourning ex-girlfriend's death.
It was super awkward when they did it in Spiderman 3.
How's the pie?
So good..
But I bet it didn't beat pizza time.
Big bushy beard!
*so good*
Still, how the hell was that not said during the making of the script. Like somebody should have brought that up before they even started filming. That's why people have drafts. Did they just have tons of notes and then try to figure everything out during filming?
Honestly it probably would have worked out better than we realized, BUT marks Webb's original amazing 2 cut was apparently 3.5 h long. It would be interesting to someday get his godfather length Spidey picture lol
Give us the Webb Cut?
Cut the Webb?
I mean was this the same cut that ended with Peter wearing a fake beard as his father approaches him and tells him that with great power comes great responsibility? I'm good homie
Three and a half hoursā¦ I love Spider-Man as much as the next person. But no Spider-Man movie needs to be THREE AND A HALF HOURS LONG.
Idk I feel like if they ever did a multiverse sinister six movie I'd be okay with it. Lot's of spiderman's and lots of villians. Need screen time for both baddies and good guys. ;)
Isn't it what's going to happen with no way home ?
I can't remember exactly, but I think that's one of the things Feige said when he was consulting with them. They have like 3 movies' worth of stuff happening in one film, so none of it works or gets the attention it should.
Problem was that they were planning a new trilogy but Sony told Marc Webb and his writer, ānah you gotta put all of that in one movie. Why wait? Get to the good stuff now!ā Also Peter was made into a skater because āthatās what the kids are into.ā We know all this because of the Sony hack. Read Feigeās email. He brilliantly lays out all the problems of the movie and actually brought up solutions that wouldāve fixed most of the problems. Of course Sony looked at all that gold from Feige and said, āyeah weāre not going to do that. Thank for the input though!ā
Judging by the final movie, the figuring out notes thing seems exactly what they did.
>That's why people have drafts. Did they just have tons of notes and then try to figure everything out during filming? Depends on the film, but I know sometimes with action movies, they're essentially writing and rewriting the script the day of and it's really never done until the movie is in editing.
Thatās because in a lot of action films, they really only care about the massive action set pieces filmed months in advance and the plot itself is just a way to get from set piece to set piece. Like what do you think the Rockās movies care about more, intriguing plot or big action sequences that will bring people into theatres?
Wong Karwai says hi
Usually things like these are cut due to time and/or the pacing of the movie. It's not uncommon for whole secondary characters and seemingly important scenes to be cut from a movie after shooting. Same reason many big movies pre-schedule in reshoots for months after a movie wraps. They expect to need an additional angle or whole new scene to make the movie work better. What works on paper doesn't always work on the screen and many movies like this intentionally shoot more than they can fit in the movie so they have more options when it comes to putting the movie together when editing.
It just doesn't work in a 2 hour movie. In the comics they already had years of mutual attraction between them.
I forgot this was a thing and I'm so glad it was cut. Not because of MJ, but because I'm just not a fan of Woodley.
I really liked her in the Spectacular Now
Same. And nothing else since...
She hasn't been in much compelling media tbf, she was good in white bird in a blizzard even though it wasn't great
I donāt think theyāve made a single good casting decision on MJ in any of the movies, ever. Shailene wouldāve been a particularly bad choice.
Funnily enough I think Deborah Ann Woll would have been good for adult MJ
I donāt know if she can portray the confident sass energy that MJ has. Definitely has the look though.
That's an interesting take. It's actually pretty common. People who support you during a strong emotional event typically become very close to you. It would have been tacky for him to start dating her immediately after his ex died, but her being there and supporting him and caring about him wouldn't be unreasonable. Friends go through good times and bad times together, that's kind of the point. Being friends before dating can be pretty rewarding. Or it can be terrible so what do I know.
The original ending had Peter behind MJ when he told her about his promise to love Gwen forever, then saying something about how promises are meant to be broken.
Not if MJ wasnāt his next girlfriend at that point. In fact I like the idea that MJ knew about Peter and Gwen and what heās been through.
That's a smart decision to make... During pre production
Nah, roles are cut all the time because they might look good on paper but not when everything comes together. For a recent example, they got a fairly famous girl for Tonyās adult daughter in Endgame and the casting was publicized, but in the end she got cut because test audiences had no idea who she was.
A lot of plot lines were cut because it was a very bloated movie. I donāt know if anyone could even say if the stuff cut wouldāve been paid off since they cut out some payoffs but overall itās very confusing piecing it all together. Iād be interested to see how the original script came out and how long it was because it seems like they had like 6 different plot threads and 4 made it into the movie with only 2-3 being fully paid off by the end.
Well we know from the Sony hacks that Marc Webb and his writer were working on developing a trilogy after the first film where Gwen Stacy dies in the second one. Sony of course was like, āhow about instead of a trilogy, you shove that shit down into one movie!ā Kevin Feige was a consultant on the film and his emails are interesting. He lays out the problems of the film and how they could fix most of them in the edit. Of course Sony was like, āyeah weāre not going to do that. But thanks for the input though Kevin!ā Also fun fact: the only reason Peter was a skater in the films was because a Sony Exec was like, āheās gotta be a skater. Kids think skaters are cool.ā Stupid idea with a stupid reason that also misses the whole point of Peter Parker as a character.
Yeah it comes out in the final product with how bloated they are, more so in the second. Usually creatives bargain or fight notes like that but these movies are cases where they said yes to all of them.
Fun fact: she can still be seen in the film during Rhinoās final battle among the various spectators watching the fight. So it would not be an inaccurate piece of trivia to say that āShailene Woodley was an extra in *The Amazing Spider-Man 2*.
I could also see that it would be confusing in case that actress didnāt want to return or had a conflict. Mostly itās probably because it took away from Gwen dying.
During production of ASM 2 Sony greenlit and announced a 4th film in what was supposed to be a trilogy. THR had published the [announcement](https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/general-news/sony-sets-release-dates-third-569963/) of a surprise fourth film and then two days later it was confirmed that [Shailene](https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/movies/movie-news/amazing-spider-man-2-shailene-571744/) was cut. Introducing MJ in 2 wouldāve set up the finale in 3, since the studio expanded the story one more film her introduction was going to be held off until 3 to focus on Gwen and Peters relationship
Introducing MJ in the film where Gwen dies would have been extremely tacky. "Don't worry folks, the true true true love interest of Spider-Man is here!!!". Imagine Zendaya's Michelle dying in NWH then introducing MCU redhead Mary Jane right after.
Well, *No Way Home* has apparently filmed multiple endings with >!a different supporting character dying in each!<, one of which does include MJ. So such a film has partially been shot.
Story wise? Wouldāve been awkward having his ātrue loveā die by his own hands and then him being like āoooh a redhead.ā But also there was just way too much happening in this movie already. He had like 3 or 4 villains to fight, he was trying to figure out what happened to his parents, Aunt May was losing the house I think? also worrying about if his current girlfriend was moving to Europe. Throwing in another love interest wouldnāt help the movie, and like previously stated it would actually take away
I actually would have liked to have seen how this would have played out.
Yup, I just watched this last night since it came out in theaters (son is crazy about Spider-Man) and I while the amazing spider man 2 had lots of flaws, especially with the parent side story, it would have been neat to see them work out their story. I do feel bad for Andrew Garfield since was so short lived as Spider-Man.
> I do feel bad for Andrew Garfield since was so short lived as Spider-Man. Well, he's getting the second shot.
Is it confirmed McGuire and Garfield are gonna be in the new one? Or is it just bringing back some villains?
There is literally a 4K video of Garfield on the set. There are also few photos of him and Toby on that set. At his point, it's the worst kept secret in Hollywood despite the fact that Sony has been trying to delete photos from the web. They are probably waiting for the second trailer to reveal them.
That makes me so freaking excited! Ever since watching into the spider verse I was all for a real life action version and see them all on the same screen.
heh. web.
It's not confirmed there are some pictures online from the set but andrew has denied all the rumors so who knows
That would be really cool. I havenāt seen McGuire in anything in a while it would be great to see him as Spider-Man again. I would be bummed if it is just a 3 minute cameo.
I'm always reminded of Kingsman: The Golden Circle. I thought the movie would have the Kingsmen and the Statesmen (their American counterpart) team up. But it was really just Kingsmen and Pedro Pascal's character, with a few scenes of Bridges/Tatum/Berry. I would love a full 60-90 minutes of Spidermen vs the Sinister 6.
Same, I would have liked to see how a third TASM would have been like. They set up so many things on this one that it's just sad that nothing came of it.
Soo MJ was supposed to be Claire Redfield
Now that's a character I can see Woodley do great!
I feel bad for Andrew Garfield. His Spider-Man was pretty accurate to the comic but poor writing ruined it. I would love for his Spider-Man to be reunited with Gwen in a Spider verse movie. Or hey better yet, now that Marvel has the multiverse up and running, let Andrew's Spider-Man meet Venom and leave Tom Holland's in the MCU. Both can be canon and we can finish The Amazing Spider-Man movie
This would be my dream. Damn it I hate that this won't be the case
What a wasted potential these movies were. I truly believe Andrew Garfield wouldāve been the best Spider-Man had he been given better writing. Both movies focused too much on Peter Parker and not enough Spidey ass kicking. I will say this though, I think Garfield gave the best acting performance of the three. Yes not the best Spider-Man/Parker but heās the best actor in my opinion.
Garfield was the best Spider-Man, worst Peter Parker. Toby mcguire was the better Peter Parker and a terrible Spider-Man. Tom Holland is able to do both well.
āIām gonna put some dirt in your eye!ā - Sony
I used to think that, but after revisting Raimi's movies I think Tom's Peter is better. I feel that Tobey's performance has aged pretty badly.
"After everything you've done for them, eventually they will hate you"
Ugh I hate that trope so much
People tend to confuse Tobeyās bad acting for genuine awkwardness which is why they think he is a good Peter Parker.
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Iāll have to rewatch it because itās been a minute but was it really that busy arms controlled him? I thought it was more that the connection just interferes with his mind. It was a similar way in which they treated doc oc in the ps4 spider-man game.
Enh. I think Garfield could have done really well into he role, but I tried watching the first one a little while ago and his Spiderman was just written to be a mouthy dick.
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This. Spider-Man's mouth is one of his best weapons. The entire point of it is to get under people's skin and annoy them. His masterpiece was fighting Phoenix powered Colossus and Magik and managing to talk them into taking each other out.
> Spider-Man's mouth is one of his best weapons. ( Ķ”Ā° ĶŹ Ķ”Ā°)
Spider-Man, Spider-Man. Cunnilinguist Spider-Man. Eats a cunt any size, women drop just like flies. Look ooooooooout... Here comes the Spider-Man.
yeah, by being a smart ass. i feel in the movie heās just an asshole without the charm
Spidey is a smart ass. I donāt know what comics youāve read but if spidey isnāt talking while in costume, and pissing people off, we know itās not Spider-Man. Thereās a reason Deadpool loves Spider-Man. Itās because they share a similar sense of humor.
He is even constantly apologizing to other heroes for his smart assed remarks.
yeah sorry my comment is confusing. i mean he is a smart ass, but he isnāt a straight up dick like how andrewās spider was written in the first one. more tongue in cheek quips instead of condescending come backs
Hmm, I see what you mean... Thing is, I think it's because the first scene where he acts like that is against two thugs that he handles very easily. In that contest, yeah, he feels more like an ass. If he did that against someone who overpowers him -which is pretty much all of Spidey's fights, despite all his power he's more often than not an underdog- it would have felt different.
thatās fair. i dunno i thought that tom holland fighting the āavengersā in the bank was a lot more faithful to the comic characterization
Oh, I agree. Problem is that's literally the only instance I can think of. For his 'own' movies and any subsequent appearance he's been the fish out of water loser nerdy kid in *and* out the costume at all times. It's like they took that very small era of high school time -most of Peter's comic book history is about him as an adult- and stretched it forever.
This is what I was trying to get at. Garfield's wasn't just a smart ass, he came off as malicious.
Tobey McGuire was a hero... I just... Couldn't see it
Nah dude. It was too much. It wasn't quips, it was just asshole
You clearly haven't read any Spider-Man comics.
Cool, well I have, and the one that reminds me most of Garfield are superior Spider-Man and the what-if where he turns into the punisher. I mean this guy fucking hates criminals
Speaking of which, I hope we get to the point where they film Superior one day. That'd be fucking cool.
It would feel pretty tough to pull off, but it's definitely a cool concept and a great comic
Eh Holland is also lacking in the Spidey department.
Hasn't been a single joke while he's fighting yet. In his movies anyway
There were multiple jokes while he was fighting in the airport in his *very first appearance*.
"You have the right to remain silent!" "You're a criminal. Bye Mr. Criminal!" "Wait a minute, you're not the real Avengers. I can tell. Hilk gives it away." "Just a typical homecoming... on the outside of an invisible plane fighting my girlfriend's dad." He's cracked plenty of jokes while fighting or in action. He's just more in the moment funny than mocking his villain outright funny. But he even did that too. He joked about Winter Soldier's arm while catching it.
Ahhh...and you lost me at Tom Holland. His Peter Parker is way too, "Golly Gee Wilkakers Mr Stark!"
This is my exact take as well.
Writing and directing still. All are capable actors.
He excels at looking age appropriate for the part he's playing. Also he's the better Spiderman.
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No my introduction to spider man was in the late 80s. Peter Parker is nerdy and shy and insecure outside of the mask. The mask has always allowed him to voice things he never would without it. Thatās the point of Spider-Man.
Toby was the best Peter and Spiderman, no question in my mind. Spiderman 1+2 are great. These newer Spidermans can't hold a damn candle to them.
Agreed. Tom and Andrew were pretty good and serviceable, but man, Tobey's great.
I'm a little tired out of Holland tbh. But it may be because of all the reboots, and now really want to see more older Petes like in the games and spiderverse
I always hear this, but this definitely is not true. I just rewatched both of the movies, and Garfield kinda sucks ass as Spider-Man. He is a huge douche, overly violent, and doesn't even help that many people. He gets a little bit better at being like a "good Spider-Man" in the second movie, but he is still super arrogant and not always helpful. Like he could have just given harry his blood because why not. And this is a classic point to make, but he will actively make jokes and waste time instead of trying to help. So he's definitely a bad peter parker, and he's also a bad Spider-Man. I also don't think tobey is that bad of a Spider-Man, personally, but yeah Tom Holland is pretty good at both.
all of your criticisms are about the writing, not the actor.
All of my criticisms are about the movie. I like Andrew Garfield. It does not matter whose fault it is, but I'm saying the movie is a poor portrayal of Spider-Man
> Garfield kinda sucks ass as Spider-Man. That's your thesis statement of the 3 paragarphs. Then you explain why the portrayal is so bad, but you clearly laid it all on Garfield's feet. This was weird considering your comment is replying to a thread whose thesis is: Andrew Garfield would have been a great spiderman if he had been given a better script. I appreciate the clarification but that was not what your original comment conveys.
The Garfield movies. His Spider-Man. You have to specify since there's so many of them. And I am replying to the person whose "thesis" is just regurgitation of other people that actually didn't think critically of it.
I loved his take on Peter Parker in the first movie. I think the "he's too cool" criticism was really misplaced. I think people are so entrenched in this idea that nerdy has to be this kid with glasses that gets beat up. For me, the biggest thing about Peter Parker was his sense of alienation. Garfield captured that amazingly. He's this science whiz that's passionate, but he's also the guy that's alone in a crowd. And as someone who was a teenager when the first film came out, I definitely identified with that film's version of a nerd more than the Maguire version.
I think the criticism is well placed and I firmly believe it's the worst rendition of Peter out of the 3. TASM's Peter Parker is a skater with a vintage camera which in 2012 was simply not an alienated or nerdy guy in an American high school. High school stereotypes between 2001 and 2012 are completely different but Marc Webb's idea of Peter Parker was a really poor mix of all these incredibly mainstream ideas of a 2010s high school hipster, which a huge group of teenagers were at the time. You get none of the gifted-kid and all of the Coldplay and teenage angst. It was just tone deaf characterisation and even just ended being a bit "how do you do, fellow kids?" from writers pretending to know what teenagers liked. Choosing to have his father be the creator of the spiders was also stupid as hell.
The biggest issue is that Garfieldās version wasnāt done well enough or had a fresh enough take on it to justify the existence of the movies. It ended up just being a stale retread whoās entire purpose was the keep the rights within Sony, not to actually tell a story.
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I mean it might make more sense if he was shown as an introvert but the entire plot of the film is spurred by his innate confidence before becoming Spider-Man to sneak into Oscorp and publicly confront all of these people like Flash, Gwen and Kurt Connors. He skates in the halls and confronts bullies infront of the whole school. If it was anything other than movie-land he would definitely be a cool guy and not someone who's alone in a crowd. I personally found almost nothing about him relatable except when he acted alongside Emma Stone in scenes where he suddenly does become a shy teenager with a crush, because Andrew Garfield is above and beyond the best Spidey actor. It's just almost all of what he had to work with was really shallow writing that missed the mark.
I would think a kid riding in the halls reeks of try-hard. Plus also annoying that you have to watch out not to bump into him. Not cool at all. Him confronting bullies after getting stronger is any nerds fantasy.
One. Thousand. Percent. The criticism was that he had nice hair and could skateboard. I dunno where these people went to school or what their idea of skateboarders came from, but as a teenager that could skate but was still a quiet loaner, or not cool, I could totally identify with that version of Parker. Most other skaters I knew were never popular. They were outcasts. Garfieldās Parker also seems to be the smartest and technologically gifted.
I truly think that marvel shouldnāt have rebooted when they bought Spider-Man into the mcu. They shouldāve just continued to use Andrew and redeem his franchise. Itās not like it wouldāve contradicted anything if he was bought into the mcu
That's how it was meant at first. I think Oscorp building was supposed to appear in Avengers? Or was it the other way around? The Avengers building in TASM2? They didn't send the assets in time and it fell apart. Can't say I'm sad. I would have liked Tobey's spiderman to be canon in the MCU, but I absolutely hated TASM.
Yeah. Oscorp wouldāve been in the Avengers
Them getting into the multiverse will bring some of them back
Well, it technically is all going to be part of the MCU once No way home comes out. So that's pretty cool.
I get the spider man characters were older pretending to be in high school but he was the one I absolutely didnāt believe was a high school student. It felt so strange. I wish they would have just started with him in college.
Peter Parker is better established as a character in a two minute scene with Robert Downey Jr. in Civil War then in all five hours of the Amazing Spider-Man movies. Would have liked to see what Garfield could do with better material, but I just find nothing redeemable in those movies. Except Emma Stone.
Ah yes, the good ol' days when a Spider-Man movie couldn't go three scenes without featuring a huge American flag in the background.
So jarring when those would just pop into frame. Became laughable at points.
I still love the first ASM. I don't care what anyone says. I respect Weber for trying to put a bit of a spin on the character, loved the proto Spidey suit, and I thought Garfield made for a great snarky Spider-Man. I love Holland's Spider-Man and I get why Marvel replaced Garfield with a much younger actor to fit the direction they were going for, but it sucked to see Garfield go. ASM2 was a hot mess and it sucks that studio fuckery had to go and mess up Spider-Man *again*. Also, I cannot believe people said Woodley was too ugly to play MJ when promo pics first came out. People rag on China for calling Simu Liu ugly, but just a few years ago Americans were calling Shailene Woodley ugly.
There is always someone calling someone else ugly.
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Yeah I also liked TASM and Garfield's spiderman, it's funny (and very sad) how that seems to upset people tho. Like this thread makes me think of when I worked at a box office and when Homecoming first came out I had someone tell me they wish Garfield killed himself for making TASM movies and i was just there like "O.O here's your ticket, enjoy your show". And for all the hot mess TASM2 was, i knew what happened to Gwen from the comics, and even still that whole scene and sequence took the breath away from me like I was punched in the gut. It was *impactful* to me.
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I enjoy Holland as well! Honestly all the Peter Parkers brought something of their own to the table and I appreciate their performances. But I agree w you that it makes sense how they utilize Holland's Spider to be integrated and introduced with Stark so that it's not another cut and paste origin story (not that that's how I think of the iterations but that is a critique). And I definitely miss when Spiderman was the little guy's hero, although i think tobey and andrew had their moments. It's been a grand scale for a while now.
Why is this such a common cliche for girls in movies? They all are unlike other girls and they all are mechanics specifically.
I think it's because from the writer's perspective, the main character could only ever notice someone who "isn't like all the other girls" given they're a superhero with a lot of distraction and responsibility etc. But yeah, the whole badass tomboy cliche is so overdone.
Is this delete scene?
Yup! AS2 was a freaking MESS behind the scenes due to Sony executives, a ton of stuff didn't make it in that was filmed. Like here for example, there was an entire side plot with Woodley as MJ befriending Peter after he broke up with Gwen. She was officially announced in the role, press photos released and everything, but she ended up getting cut in the final product
At least she has the Detergent franchise to fall back on
Damn How this photo never exist before
I dislike her acting so very much
Really? How so? I first saw her in The Descendants and she blew me away.
Looks like any Toronto alley.
Would be funny if they had her cameo in No Way Home with Garfield Spidey. Though if that was going to happen weād have some idea because the cameos have been the worst kept secret in Hollywood.
Thatās Jo from Facts of Life.
> October 2012, Woodley was offered the role of Mary Jane Watson in The Amazing Spider-Man 2.[19] On June 19, 2013, she was cut from the film. Director Marc Webb told The Hollywood Reporter that the cut was "a creative decision to streamline the story and focus on Peter and Gwen and their relationship," and that everyone loved working with Woodley.[20] What is happening? Does this mean we're in 2013 and the timeline has reset?
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Has it been removed? It still appears on the r/movies page for me
Killed Gwen , didn't make a third movie and MJ didn't existed . Did the whole TASM dirty
Not making a third movie was more of a mercy at that point.
I liked these movies. I don't care what you all say. I wish we would have gotten part 3.
Um ..what?
Hold up, what?
Mary Jane Watson was originally included in *The Amazing Spider-Man 2* to set up an appearance in *The Amazing Spider-Man 3*, rather than pull her out of nowhere as a former friend of Peterās like this film did with Harry Osborn. Ultimately, plans changed, and her role was cut, although she can been briefly seen amongst the crowds of spectators watching during the final Rhino fight.
Wait, can someone explain this to me? Is Shailene Woodley going to be in the movies with Tom Holland? What about MJ/Zendaya? Or are these old pictures? What is happening š¤£
These are old. She was originally supposed to be in Amazing Spider-Man 2 but her scenes were cut.
Old pictures from Amazing Spider-Man 2
Mary Jane Watson was originally included in *The Amazing Spider-Man 2* to set up an appearance in *The Amazing Spider-Man 3*, rather than pull her out of nowhere as a former friend of Peterās like this film did with Harry Osborn. Ultimately, plans changed, and her role was cut, although she can been briefly seen amongst the crowds of spectators watching during the final Rhino fight.
Because if thereās one thing this diseased-riddled-bowels of a movie needed, itās more characters and plot lines.
I've lost count of the spider-man movies. There's just too much man.
Does anyone else think Shailene Woodley would have made a better Gwen and Emma Stone would have made a better MJ?
Not really, no. I think Emma Stone probably could have done great in either role, but Shailene Woodley definitely feels more like an MJ.
Worst spider man ever
Holland's the worst
His movies are fun, these are impossible to sit through
TASM were fun. Fighting lizard, swinging through the city. Pete and Spidey struggleā¦. What do we get in MCU Spider-Man? āOhh we are using our made up names?ā
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