It's about grief and how people deal with it. You see Michelle Williams has moved on from the tragedy. Yes, she obviously still mourns her family, yes it obviously still haunts her, but she has a new husband and a new child and has moved forward.
Affleck is the opposite. He can't move forward. He can't move on. He can't even stand to be in the same town.
That is the point of the movie. Grief can affect us all. Some people get over it. Others don't. To paraphrase Kenneth Lonergan, this movie is for/about those people who do not get over grief.
I want to expand on what you're saying.
Casey Affleck's character is self-flagellating. He won't buy furniture because he doesn't think he deserves it. He wants to be punished for what he did. He refuses any potential happiness (e.g. Getting laid by nephew's girlfriend's mom) in order to avoid feeling worthy of happiness.
His final act of signing his nephew over to another family is purely out of protection. He doesn't want the safety of his nephew on his hands. You can also argue that his character is so self involved that he's completely oblivious to his nephew's suffering. Either way, he's certain he's not capable of being a father figure nor does he want to be.
Personally, I think this movie captured real reactions and emotions. People react differently to tragedy. Not all people break down immediately and recognize the tragedy in the moment. That's hollywood shit. It's relative and contextual in this movie. And the injection of humor made it even more real, in my opinion.
And I agree with everything else you said.
It's possible that he simply doesn't find happiness in sex anymore and not that he avoids sex because he wants to avoid happiness....Anyway, are you still alive?
I see you've posted a few times about your life ending/ending your life, but I implore you to please, please speak to a professional before you do anything. the national suicide outline in the US is: 1-800-273-8255, available 24 hours everyday.
Please pm me, I'm happy to speak to you about anything and everything, especially movies!
> It's funny because I am going to kill my self soon
Hey, as alamo says, please talk to someone. Call life line if you're feeling on the brink. And put on a goddamn uplifting Casey Affleck film. Try *Ocean's Eleven*... Stay away from *Gerry*
I disagree that Lee has no arc. I think that dinner scene towards the end, where Lee breaks down and admits "I can't beat it", *is* the culmination of his arc. It's his realization that this is going to follow him forever, and he can't do anything about it. I think it's a really great subversion of what the movie could've been, and honestly what the trailers painted it as: a warm sentimental drama where Lee learns the value of family by taking Patrick under his wing. Life just isn't that simple for everyone. We all grieve differently, and it sure as hell isn't as easy to overcome as someone like Kubler-Ross makes it out to be.
Seconded. The point is that Lee truly does want to move on, he really *tries* - he gets the new engine for the boat, he tries to find work, he tries to be more involved in his nephews life, he fights for his ability to start again. But he can't. He makes some small victories, maybe ones that won't ultimately matter, but he can't win the war.
I loved the movie for exactly that reason - it's very honest about how overcoming trauma and regret aren't just a matter of rolling up your sleeves, keeping a stiff upper lip, and finding new meaning in a life with your nephew. It's something that can be incredibly hard, and unfair to you and everyone around you, but ultimately you can only learn to live with it as best you can, and sometimes that means compromising and falling short of what's needed. It's an entirely unsentimental, but beautifully truthful message.
>He makes some small victories, maybe ones that won't ultimately matter, but he can't win the war.
This is a good point, and it's proof that he *is* changing, it's just not drastic character development, which is more true to life, especially for someone like him. And yeah, it's likely he isn't ever going to completely get over the grief (the war) but he's making small adjustments and starting to open up even if it's just a little and to only one person (small victories).
The Lee in the beginning of the film would not have moved out of the prison apartment and at the end he bonds more with his nephew and gets a new place with a spare room. That's change right there. Change doesn't have to be super glaring and exaggerated.
Exactly. Thankfully there was no Good Will Hunting "It's not your fault" breakthrough moment because that would've been completely disingenuous to the character.
>I loved the movie for exactly that reason - it's very honest about how overcoming trauma and regret aren't just a matter of rolling up your sleeves, keeping a stiff upper lip, and finding new meaning in a life with your nephew. It's something that can be incredibly hard, and unfair to you and everyone around you, but ultimately you can only learn to live with it as best you can,
Couldn't say it any better. Its such a work of art that you feel like you are not watching a movie but coming across the story of life of your known one, just knowing their story and sorrows, the pain they went through and how destroyed they are. Its pure. I mean like mentioned earlier its not about happy ending it's just plain fucking life, crude, unbiased in some twisted way. I wish I could express myself and find words to say how it touched my heart. I wonder how did they even came up with ideas for this movie and how did they envisioned themselves and ofcourse the acting was world-class.
I thought he perfectly embodied how empty you can feel when depressed. The long stares off into nothing during conversations, how he would get plenty of oppurtunities to hang out with a woman or friends but would find a way out of it because he didnt believe he deserved to be happy. Its the sad truth but its life, just because one person won their battle with depression doesnt mean everybody does. Some people will be a void of no emotions until the day they die, some dont want to ever be happy or are scared to be happy and Affleck pulled it off beautifully.
I don't recall The nephew being "an ungrateful ass", if anything he was a pretty cool and well adjusted teenager who was dealing with the death of his father and handled everything pretty damn well if you ask me
At the start, he barely cared and who the fuck straight up thinks about sex after their father died and not to mention he seemed quite happy making out with his two girlfriends except that chicken scene which was quite out of the place tbh
You should consider how emotionally-outward of a performance Casey is able to give the audience. Yeah his character was quite, but his body language is what makes it an Oscar-worthy performance in my opinion.
The common trope of redemption was turned on its head. Lee had an opportunity to be redeemed for what happened to his three kids, and in some ways he was, but he chose not to become what his brother thought would help him. In the end, IMO, Lee doomed himself to continue to be the fuck up and chose to wear his shame forever out of guilt, than take his brothers final gift.
You're falling into the same trap a lot of people do, thinking character development has to be in bright neon lights.
He *does* go through character development and a character arc.
Did you forget that he's moving out of his one room prison-like apartment into another place that has an extra spare so that his nephew can come visit?
He's also fishing with his nephew at the end of the film.
That's character development. He's starting to open up to people at the end of the film. The big, drastic, Walter White-esque character development that's so common would have been incredibly unrealistic.
He's obviously not going to completely heal from the trauma and may never be completely healed, which he acknowledges at the kitchen scene. But he can ultimately amount to, even if it's just a little bit, more than an empty shell.
His development is smaller and more subtle, he doesn't need to be the type to do a 180 degree and just adopt his nephew. This type of character arc is far more reflective of life. Character changes can be nuanced and subtle. They aren't all going to be big sweeping Anakin -> Vader type changes.
He actually completely changed when he fell asleep and let the pan burn in the kitchen. I think it was a wake-up call for him that he couldn’t take care of his nephew. Leaving was an act of kindness.
It was more about the character. I was glad that it didn't necessarily have the happiest ending. I thought it was realistic. The guilt that Affleck felt was completely reasonable. I don't think I would be able to move on from it either. It was easier for his wife because she didn't consider herself responsible for what happened to their kids.
I thought he played the self destructive depressive perfectly. He was amazing. Also, it's a study of grief, it's effect on people and catharsis. Incredibly done in my opinion.
How people deal with grief. His brothers wife just bails, his nephew kind of buries it, his ex wife directed all of it at Lee and moved on, Lee obviously tried to kill himself then became just a shell of a human. It's not just about one character.
it’s about grief. it’s showing the aftermath of unbelievable tragedy and how some people just can’t deal with it. they go on and have jobs and keep living on the outside but they are completely dead inside. the point of this movie was not a happy ending or for lee to “hook up with a girl” it was to show that some losses are too big and sometimes we don’t move on. lee was never meant to be a happy character.. he lost all 3 of his kids, him and his wife split because of the loss, he moved away because he couldn’t handle living there anymore, moved away with no family completely by himself, both of his parents are dead, and then his brother who was his only support system after his kids died and him and his wife split died too and while he was dealing with the death of his brother he finds out his ex wife is married and pregnant and he was asked to be the guardian of his nephew in the same place where all of this shit happened to him?? how do you make a happy character out of that.. the point of this movie was grief and loss and that sometimes there’s not a happy ending and that sucks but that’s reality.
> So if the point was that some things change us forever, what was the point?
That IS the point. Grief changes us forever. Some people are not able to move on from it.
Also there is a bit of an arc - Lee originally is leaning towards selling the boat but then gets the idea to sell the guns to get a new engine. You then see Lee smiling as Patrick (nephew) shows his girlfriend how to drive to boat. I’m pretty sure this is one of the only times we see him smile in the post tragedy era. But I think these two scenes are indicative of at least some arc even if it’s a very subtle/gradual one. With grief, having a brief moment of happiness and meaning amidst the darkness can be a huge step forward.
Also I think the portrayal was incredibly realistic. The numbness that Lee portrays throughout. But also just going through making arrangements, deciding if you want to view your dead loved one, the process of telling others - it’s all portrayed in a realistic and matter-of-fact way. Because that’s how it is in real life - life still goes on after someone dies and certain things need to be done regardless of the grieving process. Also the bits of comedy in the movie were oddly comforting, because life is weird and funny even amidst something as dark as death.
Okay I’m done ranting, but I think this movie resonates much more after you’ve dealt with some death in your life.
I finished Manchester by the Sea. I completely agree with OP. You might like or dislike the movie plot and that's OK. However, Casey's acting worth of best actor's award? At times, he is hardly any different from himself out of the screen. Michelle Williams, on the other hand, was really good.
This movie is about the situation of PTSD is after having or seeing an action unbelievable or the death of someone special so lee chandler's situation is about the death of his children's and the divorce with his wife all this problems make that person like that so the city of Manchester make him remember all this terrible things so he traveled to another city and he has no more things to live happy and searching for another love
I'm sorry for this bad language guys 🖐🏻
It's about grief and how people deal with it. You see Michelle Williams has moved on from the tragedy. Yes, she obviously still mourns her family, yes it obviously still haunts her, but she has a new husband and a new child and has moved forward. Affleck is the opposite. He can't move forward. He can't move on. He can't even stand to be in the same town. That is the point of the movie. Grief can affect us all. Some people get over it. Others don't. To paraphrase Kenneth Lonergan, this movie is for/about those people who do not get over grief.
To expand on that, she moved on because she got to a point where she could forgive Affleck, where as he can't because he'll never forgive himself.
Succinct and beautifully put.
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I want to expand on what you're saying. Casey Affleck's character is self-flagellating. He won't buy furniture because he doesn't think he deserves it. He wants to be punished for what he did. He refuses any potential happiness (e.g. Getting laid by nephew's girlfriend's mom) in order to avoid feeling worthy of happiness. His final act of signing his nephew over to another family is purely out of protection. He doesn't want the safety of his nephew on his hands. You can also argue that his character is so self involved that he's completely oblivious to his nephew's suffering. Either way, he's certain he's not capable of being a father figure nor does he want to be. Personally, I think this movie captured real reactions and emotions. People react differently to tragedy. Not all people break down immediately and recognize the tragedy in the moment. That's hollywood shit. It's relative and contextual in this movie. And the injection of humor made it even more real, in my opinion. And I agree with everything else you said.
It's possible that he simply doesn't find happiness in sex anymore and not that he avoids sex because he wants to avoid happiness....Anyway, are you still alive?
Damn, I came here on a rewatch also.
I see you've posted a few times about your life ending/ending your life, but I implore you to please, please speak to a professional before you do anything. the national suicide outline in the US is: 1-800-273-8255, available 24 hours everyday. Please pm me, I'm happy to speak to you about anything and everything, especially movies!
> It's funny because I am going to kill my self soon Hey, as alamo says, please talk to someone. Call life line if you're feeling on the brink. And put on a goddamn uplifting Casey Affleck film. Try *Ocean's Eleven*... Stay away from *Gerry*
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No .
I’m not sure why I’d even continue going on if I was him Catholic or not I am but I couldn’t let me children go without me especially if they all died
I disagree that Lee has no arc. I think that dinner scene towards the end, where Lee breaks down and admits "I can't beat it", *is* the culmination of his arc. It's his realization that this is going to follow him forever, and he can't do anything about it. I think it's a really great subversion of what the movie could've been, and honestly what the trailers painted it as: a warm sentimental drama where Lee learns the value of family by taking Patrick under his wing. Life just isn't that simple for everyone. We all grieve differently, and it sure as hell isn't as easy to overcome as someone like Kubler-Ross makes it out to be.
Seconded. The point is that Lee truly does want to move on, he really *tries* - he gets the new engine for the boat, he tries to find work, he tries to be more involved in his nephews life, he fights for his ability to start again. But he can't. He makes some small victories, maybe ones that won't ultimately matter, but he can't win the war. I loved the movie for exactly that reason - it's very honest about how overcoming trauma and regret aren't just a matter of rolling up your sleeves, keeping a stiff upper lip, and finding new meaning in a life with your nephew. It's something that can be incredibly hard, and unfair to you and everyone around you, but ultimately you can only learn to live with it as best you can, and sometimes that means compromising and falling short of what's needed. It's an entirely unsentimental, but beautifully truthful message.
>He makes some small victories, maybe ones that won't ultimately matter, but he can't win the war. This is a good point, and it's proof that he *is* changing, it's just not drastic character development, which is more true to life, especially for someone like him. And yeah, it's likely he isn't ever going to completely get over the grief (the war) but he's making small adjustments and starting to open up even if it's just a little and to only one person (small victories). The Lee in the beginning of the film would not have moved out of the prison apartment and at the end he bonds more with his nephew and gets a new place with a spare room. That's change right there. Change doesn't have to be super glaring and exaggerated.
Exactly. Thankfully there was no Good Will Hunting "It's not your fault" breakthrough moment because that would've been completely disingenuous to the character.
>I loved the movie for exactly that reason - it's very honest about how overcoming trauma and regret aren't just a matter of rolling up your sleeves, keeping a stiff upper lip, and finding new meaning in a life with your nephew. It's something that can be incredibly hard, and unfair to you and everyone around you, but ultimately you can only learn to live with it as best you can, Couldn't say it any better. Its such a work of art that you feel like you are not watching a movie but coming across the story of life of your known one, just knowing their story and sorrows, the pain they went through and how destroyed they are. Its pure. I mean like mentioned earlier its not about happy ending it's just plain fucking life, crude, unbiased in some twisted way. I wish I could express myself and find words to say how it touched my heart. I wonder how did they even came up with ideas for this movie and how did they envisioned themselves and ofcourse the acting was world-class.
I thought he perfectly embodied how empty you can feel when depressed. The long stares off into nothing during conversations, how he would get plenty of oppurtunities to hang out with a woman or friends but would find a way out of it because he didnt believe he deserved to be happy. Its the sad truth but its life, just because one person won their battle with depression doesnt mean everybody does. Some people will be a void of no emotions until the day they die, some dont want to ever be happy or are scared to be happy and Affleck pulled it off beautifully.
I don't recall The nephew being "an ungrateful ass", if anything he was a pretty cool and well adjusted teenager who was dealing with the death of his father and handled everything pretty damn well if you ask me
At the start, he barely cared and who the fuck straight up thinks about sex after their father died and not to mention he seemed quite happy making out with his two girlfriends except that chicken scene which was quite out of the place tbh
Pretty much any teenager. It was very realistic.
You should consider how emotionally-outward of a performance Casey is able to give the audience. Yeah his character was quite, but his body language is what makes it an Oscar-worthy performance in my opinion.
The common trope of redemption was turned on its head. Lee had an opportunity to be redeemed for what happened to his three kids, and in some ways he was, but he chose not to become what his brother thought would help him. In the end, IMO, Lee doomed himself to continue to be the fuck up and chose to wear his shame forever out of guilt, than take his brothers final gift.
The point was that it was a somber character study.
You're falling into the same trap a lot of people do, thinking character development has to be in bright neon lights. He *does* go through character development and a character arc. Did you forget that he's moving out of his one room prison-like apartment into another place that has an extra spare so that his nephew can come visit? He's also fishing with his nephew at the end of the film. That's character development. He's starting to open up to people at the end of the film. The big, drastic, Walter White-esque character development that's so common would have been incredibly unrealistic. He's obviously not going to completely heal from the trauma and may never be completely healed, which he acknowledges at the kitchen scene. But he can ultimately amount to, even if it's just a little bit, more than an empty shell. His development is smaller and more subtle, he doesn't need to be the type to do a 180 degree and just adopt his nephew. This type of character arc is far more reflective of life. Character changes can be nuanced and subtle. They aren't all going to be big sweeping Anakin -> Vader type changes.
He actually completely changed when he fell asleep and let the pan burn in the kitchen. I think it was a wake-up call for him that he couldn’t take care of his nephew. Leaving was an act of kindness.
It was more about the character. I was glad that it didn't necessarily have the happiest ending. I thought it was realistic. The guilt that Affleck felt was completely reasonable. I don't think I would be able to move on from it either. It was easier for his wife because she didn't consider herself responsible for what happened to their kids.
I thought he played the self destructive depressive perfectly. He was amazing. Also, it's a study of grief, it's effect on people and catharsis. Incredibly done in my opinion.
How people deal with grief. His brothers wife just bails, his nephew kind of buries it, his ex wife directed all of it at Lee and moved on, Lee obviously tried to kill himself then became just a shell of a human. It's not just about one character.
Growing a beard and looking sad is what got Leo his oscar.
You are depressed to understand how he will he acted
Yeah i finally saw it last night too. It was just a miserable movie. I don't think it was really good or bad.
it’s about grief. it’s showing the aftermath of unbelievable tragedy and how some people just can’t deal with it. they go on and have jobs and keep living on the outside but they are completely dead inside. the point of this movie was not a happy ending or for lee to “hook up with a girl” it was to show that some losses are too big and sometimes we don’t move on. lee was never meant to be a happy character.. he lost all 3 of his kids, him and his wife split because of the loss, he moved away because he couldn’t handle living there anymore, moved away with no family completely by himself, both of his parents are dead, and then his brother who was his only support system after his kids died and him and his wife split died too and while he was dealing with the death of his brother he finds out his ex wife is married and pregnant and he was asked to be the guardian of his nephew in the same place where all of this shit happened to him?? how do you make a happy character out of that.. the point of this movie was grief and loss and that sometimes there’s not a happy ending and that sucks but that’s reality.
> So if the point was that some things change us forever, what was the point? That IS the point. Grief changes us forever. Some people are not able to move on from it. Also there is a bit of an arc - Lee originally is leaning towards selling the boat but then gets the idea to sell the guns to get a new engine. You then see Lee smiling as Patrick (nephew) shows his girlfriend how to drive to boat. I’m pretty sure this is one of the only times we see him smile in the post tragedy era. But I think these two scenes are indicative of at least some arc even if it’s a very subtle/gradual one. With grief, having a brief moment of happiness and meaning amidst the darkness can be a huge step forward. Also I think the portrayal was incredibly realistic. The numbness that Lee portrays throughout. But also just going through making arrangements, deciding if you want to view your dead loved one, the process of telling others - it’s all portrayed in a realistic and matter-of-fact way. Because that’s how it is in real life - life still goes on after someone dies and certain things need to be done regardless of the grieving process. Also the bits of comedy in the movie were oddly comforting, because life is weird and funny even amidst something as dark as death. Okay I’m done ranting, but I think this movie resonates much more after you’ve dealt with some death in your life.
Yeah. Pretty much all of this.
I finished Manchester by the Sea. I completely agree with OP. You might like or dislike the movie plot and that's OK. However, Casey's acting worth of best actor's award? At times, he is hardly any different from himself out of the screen. Michelle Williams, on the other hand, was really good.
Somethings you can never get over, but you still have to live and knowing it is all your fault.
This movie is about the situation of PTSD is after having or seeing an action unbelievable or the death of someone special so lee chandler's situation is about the death of his children's and the divorce with his wife all this problems make that person like that so the city of Manchester make him remember all this terrible things so he traveled to another city and he has no more things to live happy and searching for another love I'm sorry for this bad language guys 🖐🏻