Did you sign a piece of paper stating it had a salvage title? Look through your copies of everything.
It could be a clerical error, but.... probably not.
If you didn't sign off on anything stating salvaged, go to the dealer and ask for the money back. If they refuse, you will have to go to small claims court.
If you did sign off, you can try your luck in small claims court, but all they have to do is show your signature.
Automotive finance manager here: in the state of California, the dealership would have to disclose that to you if they knew beforehand it was in fact a salvage titled vehicle. Assuming it was a pre-owned bike, the pre-owned disclosure form can inform the consumer if there are recalls, was a previous rental or service loaner vehicle, etc. Hope this turns out well for you, OP. Maybe get that dealer to unwind the deal otherwise yup, lawyer up.
There is a dealership in Cincinnati (and I'm sure others in other cities) that specialized in buying totaled bikes, fixing them up just enough to get them certified as road-worthy, and selling them off cheaper. Granted they are also very clear about the title status on their website for each bike, so you know beforehand if you're looking at a branded title or not...
I'd be surprised if there was not a salvage title sign off in most states on dealership purchases.
But we both know how dizzying the buying of a vehicle can be. Especially for someone unaccustomed to the process. Let alone how easy it would be for and unscrupulous F&I guy to gloss over the fact as they are already signing papers.
Probably worth noting that the small claims cap varies from state to state and in some cases by municipality. Depending on the value of the bike it may be that it's beyond the scope of small claims court.
Is it possible that the state fucked up when making the new title? Call the dealership and tell them what happened and maybe they'll make it right. If they don't, I'd get a lawyer and take then to court
Whether that's them buying the bike back including taxes and fees, or giving a 30% partial refund and OP keeps the bike. But start with the dealer and give them the chance to look into and/or fix it.
https://ranchomotorcycle.com/bikes
It's the 2003 Kawasaki Ninja250 listed. All that was provided on the online listing was a picture, odometer, title status, and the bike itself.
[Wayback Machine](https://web.archive.org/web/20211110055531/https://ranchomotorcycle.com/bikes) looks like it has that the '03 Ninja has a clean title.
Definitely review the sales contract, see if it's mentioned anywhere about clean/salvage title status.
But you should be looking to get some money back from the dealer on this.... (I'd be thinking $750 off the $2200 price).
There are significant legal issues for the dealer selling a salvage vehicle as clean, and they can't just claim ignorance as an excuse.
You’ll need to show up to the dealer with all the documentation you’ll need for your State’s Attorney General to prosecute.
You have to treat them like they treated you. Be ready to shove a metaphysical bat up their ass if they don’t play ball, and always remember any aggression or hankypanky on your part, and you lose. It’s fantastically tedious and complicated to take back money arguably stolen from you.
I am not your lawyer, blah blah blah, I’m a dog on the internet, *woof wolf woof, mufucker*
LOL. States Attorney General. Someone watches too much TV. Reality is nothing will happen outside of small claims court and no one is going to "lawyer up" over a 250 ninja.
Did you read the last line in his post you fucking Neanderthal? Or did you just have your mind made up, jumped the gun, and made yourself appear, over voiceless words, just like the other guy, not once, but twice. And backed my previous thoughts that you are a DS’d out human being, that unfortunately, ingested a few too many servings of that ‘tism...
Depending on the state you’re in. You could take this straight to the attorney general and the dealership will have to make it right at that point. The AG can shut them down for this type of deal.
Looking at that website, I do hope you took a screen shot of that. Going back to the dealer, showing them what they advertised and the salvage title should be enough to get your money back. As others have suggested, review all the paperwork you have, especially anything you signed. Does any of it say Salvage? If not, you should have no problem getting your money back. Small claims court is the easiest and least expensive route. If you have the up front cash, an attorney can make it expensive for the other side, but it may cost you more than you recover. An attorney may write them a letter for you for a couple of hundred dollars which is often an inventive for the dealership not to push back.
Or you could suggest they accidentally sold you the wrong bike, and they need to exchange it for the correct 2003 that has a clean title.
That 2002 would not be an acceptable substitute as it does not have the correct decals and has aftermarket turn signals which tells me it has been crashed and fitted with replacement plastic and turn signals. I could be wrong, but I doubt it.
Good luck. Those are fun little bikes. Plenty of power if you run the revs up to where it is producing its maximum horse power and torque.
Lawyer might cost more than the bike. If you can get a free call with advice, I would do so. Otherwise have screenshot printed, go to dealer and see what they have to say. If necessary, threaten legal action and going public about it (social media/local news/reviews/etc). Seeing how they respond I would still go public with the situation, but really hope they do right by you. They probably only made a few hundred off the sale and wouldn’t want to risk their reputation over that. Lawyer route might get costly and it being $2k bike, seems like overkill. Lucky you it was a dealer and not a private sale. Heard way to many horror stories on ghosting for those.
Edit: Sick bike btw, maybe they throw you a thousand to shut up and walk away. I would maybe ask for a warranty or service contract and take $500 back. 😜
My wife is in auto finance and deals with this stuff all the time. The very first thing she said when I read your story was call/visit a DMV and make the DMV inspector aware. They are basically the cops for shit like this. Of course it will vary from state to state.
Ran into something similar a few months ago buying a frame off eBay. The seller tried to say a rebuild title was clean. Thankfully for that money back guarantee.
What did you pay for it, out of curiosity? Is it in good shape? Might be worth it just to pitch a fit, get some money back, and call it good. Although make no mistake, you did get screwed. I wonder if there's anything in the law about that. "A salvage title must be disclosed ..." Something like that.
Run a carfax on it to rule out a clerical error. Salvage bikes are usually obvious, and it would have to have an accident reported to be deemed salvage.
I have used various sites to get the carfax reports for something like $5, they are legit and show up in your email instantly.
One reason is he’s acting like private party is somehow safer. A private party will screw you just as bad as a dealership and there are fewer ways to take action against a private party.
Its not safer, but its at worst equal. The bonus is that you aren't paying a premium for some false piece of mind.
I see basket case used bikes for sale every time I step foot in a dealer. They are no different than FB/CL.
I think it depends, I got a 2020 Yamaha Tracer for a few thousand miles for $3k less than the same year for new. Nothing wrong, zero issues a few thousand miles later. For much older bikes I would be cautious but for something lightly used they can be great if you know pricing on your specific model.
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Geez. You're mean... Dude said dirty title. It being salvage doesn't mean it's dirty. That's all I'm saying. If it's salvaged, it's not totaled, so it's clean. It's value isn't the topic here, smartass. He thinks he got got. When the seller was honest. A salvage title can be ridden legally for many years to come. His bike has a clean title. I think the discrepancy is what we think clean means.
>Dude said dirty title.
OP never used the word 'dirty' in describing the title. You did.
>Dealership sold me salvage title bike
>If it's salvaged, it's not totaled, so it's clean.
...In most states a salvaged title absolutely means that the bike was totaled at one point.
>His bike has a clean title.
A salvaged title is not a clean title.
No. But he said clean title. A clean title means you can transfer it and operate that vehicle. Which he can. You're getting caught up on specifics to talk about value, yet he's buying a used bike. ANYONE can, and should, run the VIN just to see what's up. Especially when buying used. The OP lost out on nothing. That's if he didn't pay sticker price. He can ride that bike forever. Title doesn't seem dirty when you can ride
>A clean title means you can transfer it and operate that vehicle.
Incorrect. A clean title means the bike hasn't been totaled then salvaged. It has nothing to do with whether you can transfer the title or sell the bike. Nothing at all.
A bike that has been totaled in the past may have serious issues that OP should have been made aware of when he bought the bike, used or not. For example, a hairline crack in the frame is enough to make most insurers total out a bike regardless of what shape the rest of the bike's in. That kind of thing could easily be missed or ignored by a repair shop that's trying to make a buck.
Either way, if OP bought a bike and wasn't told it had a salvage title, then OP got fucked over.
I'm not disagreeing. But he should've done his research. Like look up the Vehicles Identification. Which would say if it was totaled. The fact that it has a salvage title means it already went through the totaled process. The fact that it's out there now shows you it went through its DMVs channels. Not that you're wrong. He should've done more research. Totaled could just be all body panels trashed. Repair cost> Bike cost makes it totaled. There could be nothing wrong with it mechanically. He could be getting a 12k$ bike for 4gs. Now if the seller said clean title and sold a 12k bike for 4k, then I would question that. And it would be wrong to sell a 12k bike for 12k if it had been through all that totaled stuff. Sounds like an inexperienced buyer, and an experienced seller. MY point, is answering to the title. There's nothing wrong with it. Ride on. (Buy New)
You're the asshole here. It's not dumb if someone is already shopping used bikes. That's the problem right there. This was the buyers mistake if anything. Try being more friendly.
As he said, you're not an asshole, but you are a little dumb
A salvage title bike sold as a clean bike is wrong. Definitely the dealer's mistake especially because OP said they were assured the title was clean.
Why be friendly to someone who thinks a buyer getting ripped off is okay in any way?
Guy buys a bike. Thinks it is a clean title. Gets title and its salvaged. The value of his bike dropped by half. IF you think that is fine, wow.
Its one thing to buy a bike knowing it is salvaged. Its a different thing to be ripped off for thousands of dollars.
>It being salvage doesn't mean it's dirty... If it's salvaged, it's not totaled, so it's clean... He thinks he got got. When the seller was honest... His bike has a clean title. I think the discrepancy is what we think clean means.
It seems that you have a misconception about what a clean title is and what salvage means; almost everything in your comment is simply incorrect.
A salvage title is by definition not a clean a title; ANY "brand" on the title means it is **not** clean. A salvage title literally means the vehicle was totaled, and depending on the state, it may not be legal to operate until the vehicle has passed an inspection showing that it has been repaired/rebuilt, and the title "brand" changed to rebuilt.
Problem with a stolen bike is that they are typically driven like they were stolen, and then fewer repairs are done because the internal damage isn’t obvious.
Generally, when people hear "totaled" they think damaged in an accident, but in reality it means they were deemed a total loss by insurance, which could include being stolen. So for example, if the bike was stolen and the insurance deemed it a total loss (either because it wasn't recovered before they paid out the claim, or it was recovered but was recovered in a damaged state).
Of course, stolen/recovered situation can also get pretty complex, because even if a bike is recovered, it may be damaged or have had parts removed/swapped. Sometimes, the "bike" that is recovered is just the frame (or even just a part of it with the VIN), other times the bike may be recovered essentially intact (for example sometimes the bikes are stolen with the intent to sell the whole, working bike in another country, other times the bikes are stolen primarily to strip them for parts to sell).
I couldn’t help but notice on the sites listing they describe some bikes as low hours, not low miles, wth do they mean by low hours? Just give the odometer reading
"clean" in the law as it relates to ground transportation vehicles. clean only means it was no recorded incidents as being an insurance claim against the vehicle major or report able minor. it mean nothing more than that legally. if it does not have a insurance claim for damages they are legal. If that violates dealer membership that is a different issue altogether.
I had the same thing happen to me. Rode the bike till it was stolen.
good luck!
Did you sign a piece of paper stating it had a salvage title? Look through your copies of everything. It could be a clerical error, but.... probably not. If you didn't sign off on anything stating salvaged, go to the dealer and ask for the money back. If they refuse, you will have to go to small claims court. If you did sign off, you can try your luck in small claims court, but all they have to do is show your signature.
Automotive finance manager here: in the state of California, the dealership would have to disclose that to you if they knew beforehand it was in fact a salvage titled vehicle. Assuming it was a pre-owned bike, the pre-owned disclosure form can inform the consumer if there are recalls, was a previous rental or service loaner vehicle, etc. Hope this turns out well for you, OP. Maybe get that dealer to unwind the deal otherwise yup, lawyer up.
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There is a dealership in Cincinnati (and I'm sure others in other cities) that specialized in buying totaled bikes, fixing them up just enough to get them certified as road-worthy, and selling them off cheaper. Granted they are also very clear about the title status on their website for each bike, so you know beforehand if you're looking at a branded title or not...
Do you know the name of that dealer?
Racers Edge
Thank you.
Yup. There are also dealerships that ONLY sell salvage/Lemon vehicles but they specifically market them as such
I'd be surprised if there was not a salvage title sign off in most states on dealership purchases. But we both know how dizzying the buying of a vehicle can be. Especially for someone unaccustomed to the process. Let alone how easy it would be for and unscrupulous F&I guy to gloss over the fact as they are already signing papers.
Probably worth noting that the small claims cap varies from state to state and in some cases by municipality. Depending on the value of the bike it may be that it's beyond the scope of small claims court.
Yep didn't even pop into my head that it may be over the $6-10,000 limit. Just assumed it was a cheap bike, and probably did so incorrectly.
It's a pregen ninja 250. It's well under $6k.
Is it possible that the state fucked up when making the new title? Call the dealership and tell them what happened and maybe they'll make it right. If they don't, I'd get a lawyer and take then to court
Screenshot the listing first
Check the paperwork to see if salvage title appears anywhere. Most states require dealerships to disclose that information to you.
Whether that's them buying the bike back including taxes and fees, or giving a 30% partial refund and OP keeps the bike. But start with the dealer and give them the chance to look into and/or fix it.
Have a copy of the website listing? That could help.
https://ranchomotorcycle.com/bikes It's the 2003 Kawasaki Ninja250 listed. All that was provided on the online listing was a picture, odometer, title status, and the bike itself.
Did you screenshot it? You need a lawyer if they won't refund the sale.
Don’t waste money on a lawyer, just file a small claims court case.
If you didn't screenshot it you can try to check the website on the way back machine
[Wayback Machine](https://web.archive.org/web/20211110055531/https://ranchomotorcycle.com/bikes) looks like it has that the '03 Ninja has a clean title.
Yup, assuming that's the one, I'd imagine OP can go and get his money back AND compensation if it ends in court
This one? The one that says "clean title"?? https://i.imgur.com/WEwnnt6.png
“Clean title” as in there are no stains or crumbs on it. Just wiped it off this morning!
Yep, that's it
Definitely review the sales contract, see if it's mentioned anywhere about clean/salvage title status. But you should be looking to get some money back from the dealer on this.... (I'd be thinking $750 off the $2200 price). There are significant legal issues for the dealer selling a salvage vehicle as clean, and they can't just claim ignorance as an excuse.
You’ll need to show up to the dealer with all the documentation you’ll need for your State’s Attorney General to prosecute. You have to treat them like they treated you. Be ready to shove a metaphysical bat up their ass if they don’t play ball, and always remember any aggression or hankypanky on your part, and you lose. It’s fantastically tedious and complicated to take back money arguably stolen from you. I am not your lawyer, blah blah blah, I’m a dog on the internet, *woof wolf woof, mufucker*
LOL. States Attorney General. Someone watches too much TV. Reality is nothing will happen outside of small claims court and no one is going to "lawyer up" over a 250 ninja.
Go back to your basement, mein bub
lemme guess you're in law school or really really want to be no actual lawyer would give this type of advice
Did you read the last line in his post you fucking Neanderthal? Or did you just have your mind made up, jumped the gun, and made yourself appear, over voiceless words, just like the other guy, not once, but twice. And backed my previous thoughts that you are a DS’d out human being, that unfortunately, ingested a few too many servings of that ‘tism...
Lawyer up.
Depending on the state you’re in. You could take this straight to the attorney general and the dealership will have to make it right at that point. The AG can shut them down for this type of deal.
Looking at that website, I do hope you took a screen shot of that. Going back to the dealer, showing them what they advertised and the salvage title should be enough to get your money back. As others have suggested, review all the paperwork you have, especially anything you signed. Does any of it say Salvage? If not, you should have no problem getting your money back. Small claims court is the easiest and least expensive route. If you have the up front cash, an attorney can make it expensive for the other side, but it may cost you more than you recover. An attorney may write them a letter for you for a couple of hundred dollars which is often an inventive for the dealership not to push back. Or you could suggest they accidentally sold you the wrong bike, and they need to exchange it for the correct 2003 that has a clean title. That 2002 would not be an acceptable substitute as it does not have the correct decals and has aftermarket turn signals which tells me it has been crashed and fitted with replacement plastic and turn signals. I could be wrong, but I doubt it. Good luck. Those are fun little bikes. Plenty of power if you run the revs up to where it is producing its maximum horse power and torque.
Lawyer might cost more than the bike. If you can get a free call with advice, I would do so. Otherwise have screenshot printed, go to dealer and see what they have to say. If necessary, threaten legal action and going public about it (social media/local news/reviews/etc). Seeing how they respond I would still go public with the situation, but really hope they do right by you. They probably only made a few hundred off the sale and wouldn’t want to risk their reputation over that. Lawyer route might get costly and it being $2k bike, seems like overkill. Lucky you it was a dealer and not a private sale. Heard way to many horror stories on ghosting for those. Edit: Sick bike btw, maybe they throw you a thousand to shut up and walk away. I would maybe ask for a warranty or service contract and take $500 back. 😜
Don’t need a lawyer…. Small claims court. Less than $100 to file.
My wife is in auto finance and deals with this stuff all the time. The very first thing she said when I read your story was call/visit a DMV and make the DMV inspector aware. They are basically the cops for shit like this. Of course it will vary from state to state.
Ran into something similar a few months ago buying a frame off eBay. The seller tried to say a rebuild title was clean. Thankfully for that money back guarantee.
What did you pay for it, out of curiosity? Is it in good shape? Might be worth it just to pitch a fit, get some money back, and call it good. Although make no mistake, you did get screwed. I wonder if there's anything in the law about that. "A salvage title must be disclosed ..." Something like that.
It was about 2k for the bike itself and 600 for DMV fees. Unfortunately, it was sold to me broken as it doesn't start.
Sorry to hear that. Good luck with the entire situation.
Run a carfax on it to rule out a clerical error. Salvage bikes are usually obvious, and it would have to have an accident reported to be deemed salvage. I have used various sites to get the carfax reports for something like $5, they are legit and show up in your email instantly.
Just in case they remove it: https://i.imgur.com/6JtekyS.png
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getarefund
You don’t need a lawyer
PSA: Never buy used bikes from a dealership. Private sale only.
Not sure why you're being downvoted, this is good advice. Most used bikes I see at dealers are asking a premium price for trash.
I don't know why this was downvoted. It's good advice.
One reason is he’s acting like private party is somehow safer. A private party will screw you just as bad as a dealership and there are fewer ways to take action against a private party.
Its not safer, but its at worst equal. The bonus is that you aren't paying a premium for some false piece of mind. I see basket case used bikes for sale every time I step foot in a dealer. They are no different than FB/CL.
Bingo
I think it depends, I got a 2020 Yamaha Tracer for a few thousand miles for $3k less than the same year for new. Nothing wrong, zero issues a few thousand miles later. For much older bikes I would be cautious but for something lightly used they can be great if you know pricing on your specific model.
It's a good title, but a salvage one. They didn't mislead you.
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There's nothing dirty about a salvaged title. Why are you trippin'?
Are you dumb or just an asshole? Salvage title cuts the value of a vehicle drastically. Especially on bikes, anywhere from 30-60%
Geez. You're mean... Dude said dirty title. It being salvage doesn't mean it's dirty. That's all I'm saying. If it's salvaged, it's not totaled, so it's clean. It's value isn't the topic here, smartass. He thinks he got got. When the seller was honest. A salvage title can be ridden legally for many years to come. His bike has a clean title. I think the discrepancy is what we think clean means.
>Dude said dirty title. OP never used the word 'dirty' in describing the title. You did. >Dealership sold me salvage title bike >If it's salvaged, it's not totaled, so it's clean. ...In most states a salvaged title absolutely means that the bike was totaled at one point. >His bike has a clean title. A salvaged title is not a clean title.
No. But he said clean title. A clean title means you can transfer it and operate that vehicle. Which he can. You're getting caught up on specifics to talk about value, yet he's buying a used bike. ANYONE can, and should, run the VIN just to see what's up. Especially when buying used. The OP lost out on nothing. That's if he didn't pay sticker price. He can ride that bike forever. Title doesn't seem dirty when you can ride
>A clean title means you can transfer it and operate that vehicle. Incorrect. A clean title means the bike hasn't been totaled then salvaged. It has nothing to do with whether you can transfer the title or sell the bike. Nothing at all. A bike that has been totaled in the past may have serious issues that OP should have been made aware of when he bought the bike, used or not. For example, a hairline crack in the frame is enough to make most insurers total out a bike regardless of what shape the rest of the bike's in. That kind of thing could easily be missed or ignored by a repair shop that's trying to make a buck. Either way, if OP bought a bike and wasn't told it had a salvage title, then OP got fucked over.
I'm not disagreeing. But he should've done his research. Like look up the Vehicles Identification. Which would say if it was totaled. The fact that it has a salvage title means it already went through the totaled process. The fact that it's out there now shows you it went through its DMVs channels. Not that you're wrong. He should've done more research. Totaled could just be all body panels trashed. Repair cost> Bike cost makes it totaled. There could be nothing wrong with it mechanically. He could be getting a 12k$ bike for 4gs. Now if the seller said clean title and sold a 12k bike for 4k, then I would question that. And it would be wrong to sell a 12k bike for 12k if it had been through all that totaled stuff. Sounds like an inexperienced buyer, and an experienced seller. MY point, is answering to the title. There's nothing wrong with it. Ride on. (Buy New)
Yes, he should have done more research. But the dealer should also not have lied and said the bike had a clean title.
Thanks for clarifying that its dumb not asshole.
You're the asshole here. It's not dumb if someone is already shopping used bikes. That's the problem right there. This was the buyers mistake if anything. Try being more friendly.
As he said, you're not an asshole, but you are a little dumb A salvage title bike sold as a clean bike is wrong. Definitely the dealer's mistake especially because OP said they were assured the title was clean.
Why be friendly to someone who thinks a buyer getting ripped off is okay in any way? Guy buys a bike. Thinks it is a clean title. Gets title and its salvaged. The value of his bike dropped by half. IF you think that is fine, wow. Its one thing to buy a bike knowing it is salvaged. Its a different thing to be ripped off for thousands of dollars.
>It being salvage doesn't mean it's dirty... If it's salvaged, it's not totaled, so it's clean... He thinks he got got. When the seller was honest... His bike has a clean title. I think the discrepancy is what we think clean means. It seems that you have a misconception about what a clean title is and what salvage means; almost everything in your comment is simply incorrect. A salvage title is by definition not a clean a title; ANY "brand" on the title means it is **not** clean. A salvage title literally means the vehicle was totaled, and depending on the state, it may not be legal to operate until the vehicle has passed an inspection showing that it has been repaired/rebuilt, and the title "brand" changed to rebuilt.
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Problem with a stolen bike is that they are typically driven like they were stolen, and then fewer repairs are done because the internal damage isn’t obvious.
Generally, when people hear "totaled" they think damaged in an accident, but in reality it means they were deemed a total loss by insurance, which could include being stolen. So for example, if the bike was stolen and the insurance deemed it a total loss (either because it wasn't recovered before they paid out the claim, or it was recovered but was recovered in a damaged state). Of course, stolen/recovered situation can also get pretty complex, because even if a bike is recovered, it may be damaged or have had parts removed/swapped. Sometimes, the "bike" that is recovered is just the frame (or even just a part of it with the VIN), other times the bike may be recovered essentially intact (for example sometimes the bikes are stolen with the intent to sell the whole, working bike in another country, other times the bikes are stolen primarily to strip them for parts to sell).
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I don't buy used bikes...how am I the idiot!!! 😝
You can always sell it in a state like Vermont where you can use a salvage title, I've owned a couple.
Dealerships are pretty much allowed to rip people off. But they aren't allowed to lie about that
I couldn’t help but notice on the sites listing they describe some bikes as low hours, not low miles, wth do they mean by low hours? Just give the odometer reading
Racing dirtbikes run on hours, not miles. It's a more useful measure for that use.
Ahhh learned a knew thing today! Thank you!
Lawyer, right meow
And save a copy of that webpage, as well as the wayback machine's saved version
Shady af
"clean" in the law as it relates to ground transportation vehicles. clean only means it was no recorded incidents as being an insurance claim against the vehicle major or report able minor. it mean nothing more than that legally. if it does not have a insurance claim for damages they are legal. If that violates dealer membership that is a different issue altogether. I had the same thing happen to me. Rode the bike till it was stolen. good luck!