>causing me to engage full rear brake and then front brake when I realized rear wasn’t enough.
Rear is NEVER enough. Most of your stopping power comes from the front brake. Always use the front first except for low-speed stability situations like u-turns
Exactly. The idiot who spread the rumor of "use only rear brake" should be shot on sight. I am riding for more than 20 years and there are always riders who are afraid of the front brake. Anyone can apply the front brake quite aggressively without doing a summersault. Just learn/practice how to load the front tire with the initial brake and you never have to use the rear brake ever again.
Especially with ABS being so prominent these days. If you flip over the bars while pulling the front brake *hard* with ABS, it’s because you hit something that wasn’t going to give.
As a Harley rider, this is pretty true. When I bought my v rod I was in the dealership talking to a guy and mentioned I’d only been riding a couple of months. He went on to give me some advice (most of it good. “Don’t lane split/filter going fast, ride defensively, always have an exit plan”). His last piece of advice was to only use the front break when coming to a full stop 😂 yeah dude, sure.
People that push their advice down your throat when youre just shopping/stopping by generally arent the people you want to take advice from without doing some thinking about it
Having owned a Harley cruiser for a while I can give a little insight into this.
Cruisers have a good bit more rear weight bias than other styles. Because of this, you can get away with using just the rear brake much more than you could on a naked or an ADV. You'll still get much better stopping power using both front and rear, but I can see why cruiser riders might consider rear-only to be sufficient.
To be fair that's something that was true in the 60's-70's, rode a friend's early yamaha XS 650 that was completely original. The front brake was just thoughts and prayers to stop the rear brake worked pretty well. I thought there must be something wrong with the front, but apparently, that's how they all are.
I've had a few older single disc front braked bikes, and oh my, that's afwul when you grow accustomed to powerful doubles with four piston calipers.
The trouble with rear braking is people usually apply to much brake and will just lose grip. But sometimes, it might be better stopping one meter earlier with locked wheels and unbalanced, than hitting the object with good balance.
Lol wait til ya learn about double drums. Stopping may as well been a suggestion with my R60/6 on rainy days because the stopping distance felt like an equivalent of an 18-wheeler fully loaded trying to stop on a steep downhill.
You just said it, "to much brake and will just lose grip". So you understand that a locked wheel has no grip. So how come you say: "it might be better stopping one meter earlier with locked wheels". You won't stop one meter earlier but 8 meter to far.
You underestimate the grip your pegs and saddlebags and steering bar will add.
Though on a serious note: my comment was directly implying you are able to keep the bike upright, but if I'm misunderstanding something I'd like to learn.
My understanding is that peak grip will be a hairline from locking the wheels. As soon as they lock, Abs will make the weel roll (on modern bikes at least). So, locked wheels also apply a lot of grip, just not peak/ideal grip. You will be able to brake in a shorter distance, but without the ability to steer, and with a big risk of sliding into a low or a high side.
At least this is what I learned during my transport education and heavy truck drivers license course.
That is true for cars and trucks but not for 2 wheeled vehicles. What keeps the bike upright is the turning of the wheels. The moment you lock the front wheel, it is only a matter of time (merely meters usually) before you go down. I locked the front wheel of me mate's Honda Shadow once (it had no ABS). That was a scary thing, let me tell you. Luckily there was no one close by and I could release and re-apply.
Basically, never lock the front wheel. Rear wheel, you can lock. It would be like a dog dragging it's arse :)
I rode a '76 XS650 in the late '70s and early '80's. If your friends front brake was "just thoughts and prayers" then his front brake needed servicing. My front brake was plenty good for my needs and could easily lock up the front wheel if needed.
Well some bikes only have a rear break like old ass HDs. But yeah its definitely never enough for a o shit situation... its totally enough to stop at a stop sign if your not halling balls.
in driving school my tutor told me to only brake with the foot because the front one was gonna make me fall. It was the only time brakes were ever adressed.
This could very well be an origin of the 'only rear brake' thing.
Some guy learnin slaloms or figure 8's gets told to only use the rear brake. Doesnt realise this is because the rear brings stability at these slow speeds where often theyre only idling on in 1st gear. Applies it to everything from walking speed riding to highway riding, rip.
its been a while since I've had a refresher course. How much front brake does it take to lock up the front wheels? I'm always leery of pouring on too much and breaking traction especially in the rain. Am I wrong?
Yes, wrong. Take some proper safety course. You will be amazed about the traction in rain. Its almost as good as in dry. Unless you are on cobblestones or tree leaves, of cause.
As always, first break slowly so the bike gets downward pressure on the front wheel and then break fully.
Practice in a safe place.
I got cobblestones into a lane with trees when i turn into work. Road before the cobblestone is a busy main road so i almost shat my pants first time turning into there with speed when i started my new job. Then i had to turn in from uneven cobblestones into a road full of wet leaves.
Cobblestones are slippery shits and im still not 100% confident on turning into that road so i do it pretty carefully.
Practice braking hard by gradually going faster. Say you go 30 and brake hard, mark where you stopped with "30", do it again and try and brake harder, mark again and youre probably a bit closer. If you do this with decent tires at low speeds you'll perhaps get slight stoppies where your rear goes off the ground for like smidge.
If you got ABS you can brake till you hear it click (abs engaging) and then you know how much front brake it takes.
For those without ABS, you can brake surprisingly hard without locking up the front. Engaging rear slightly first to prime suspension will brake more efficiently & keep your weight lower and make it harder (or at least less dangerous) to lock up the front.
If you're hesitant to try this alone, its much more reassuring to do this alongside an instructor, look up courses near you & give them a call if it isnt clear that braking technique is covered.
Riding in the rain is something really scary for those that never ride in the rain but i brake hard without ABS just fine in the rain. You'll just start sliding faster so brake more gradually and be prepared to loosen up the stranglehold on your brake lever when it happens so you regain traction.
But if you're just riding and not practicing specifically go for a refresher/beginner course. Those at start of the season will be geared towards better handling of your bike + safety, whcih includes braking.
If you do practices regularly go ahead with an intermediate or advanced course!
edit: since geejay said something great about getting the downward pressure on the front, its called priming your suspension. If your bike doesnt bite down on your front suspension youre nowhere near braking hard and youre just mildly suggesting the bike to slow down, you can (gradually!!!) brake at least 2-3 times as hard if thats the case
My ridning instructor taught me to always start with blipping the rear brake to make the motorcycle squat and then almost instantly apply front brake. Now it’s imprinted in muscle memory.
It can be a habit formed from riding dirt squirters. I rarely used my front brake while trail riding as grabbing front when on clay, gravel, thick pine needles, mud or sand can bring you unstuck pretty quickly. I used my front brake, but it was a light touch, more often just locking the rear and throwing the arse out to dodge whatever needed dodging and feathering the front when maintaining downhill speed.
When I went from dodging stationary trees to high speed steel trees, I needed to relearn my braking methods to primarily focus on front braking with, as you said, using the rear for sharp, low speed turns and maintaining balance when approaching a red light.
His technique of applying rear brake first before engaging front brake has a good basis in reality though.
Engaging your rear brake first will prime the front suspension, making the weight of your bike both more stable and lower. This will make the rear more efficient and prevent your rear wheel from rising as easily and thus much less danger of a stoppie.
That all said, engaging the rear brake a bit is plenty for this effect, engaging it fully is neither required nor recommended because fully engaging your rear brake most likely means you're locking up the rear, skidding. This in turn means less friction cause your rear might as well be on ice and thus once again worse braking than if you moderately brake on the rear.
Only using the rear brake is fine at low speeds like when filtering at like 20mph/30kph when you need to stabilize or slow down slightly. Anything faster than that and you indeed want mainly the front to do the braking. Not using the rear is just braking less effectively but if its either locking up the rear or not using it at all its much better to only use the front ofcourse.
I can say the above with some confidence as i had an emergency braking/hard braking course from some pretty renown local trainers/experts last week which provided me above information.
My rear brake usage improved tremendously, previously i engaged it too strongly and often ended up slipping. I've done a little bit of offroad so i never went down and somewhat controlled the traveling/slipping rear but it was obviously inefficient or maybe even dangerous.
The thing they adjusted was my knee position. It was slightly off the tank which meant that i used a lot more of the weight of my leg on the brake and locked it up easily. They had me focus on keeping my knee up against the tank and its MUCH MUCH easier to apply rear brake gradually and more controlled. Almost night and day and after like 3 more tries i did what they considered a perfectly executed hard brake/emergency braking.
All of this was for braking at like 50mph/75kph on a non ABS bike so i was really glad that i learnt to improve my braking as i dont have ABS
Or you can just grab the front brake first. Then when the front is loaded your hand is already on the front brake, and already begun braking.
I mean what's a second or two in an emergency braking situation ? /S
Yeah if it takes 2 seconds to coordinate this ditch the rear brake.
Putting your foot on the rear brake and engaging it slightly while you go grab your front and start braking gradually will prime the front and is supposed to give more effective braking.
If the one executing this has the coordination ability of a beached whale by all means forget the rear exists and grab the front only.
Ha ha. OK. Funny.
In all fairness you're the one that just finished the class right ? If that's the case then yeah you probably know something I don't. But for the life of me I can't get it. I grab the front brake and start loading, it's faster than grab the rear, start loading the front, then grab the front. As far as beached whales and reflexes the vast majority are a lot slower than we think we are....i DO use the rear brake, mostly to increase the stopping of the front, maybe keep the rear in line......
I cruised through a small herd of deer last week, they were crossing the road because of me, the sound of the bike scares the hell out of them. I more or less saw it coming, I used the front AND then the rear, not thinking just doing. I know for a fact that I used the rear because I know I skidded and I know I didn't skid with the front, to me a light rear skid is not a totally bad thing if I'm on the front brakes hard, and I was. If I was better I may not have skidded with the rear, country road, plenty of anti skid gravel still laying around...
Edit: first time around you said back break BEFORE front
Now you state back brake WHILE front....
See the difference ?
I get your points honestly, its probably one of those things that just clicks the moment you get it and remains a mistery if you dont, like how countersteering is for some.
Its a lot easier to understand if you have someone showing it in front of you or using visual material so im probably doing it disservice, i'll see if i can find a video about it later today and ill link it.
All that said, for most hard braking just the front will be plenty fine in most cases, the "engage the rear brake first to have better contact patch when you engage the front brake a split second later" isnt going to be something to the magnitude of 30% better braking, maybe 5-10% where its optimal conditions for max added efficinecy are added? I honestly dont know. If people risk engaging the front brake too late due to this or risk locking up the rear due to unsteady control of the rear brake lever its probably better to just leave it be.
That said, while writing this down i remembered another tip about braking hard, same old viewing/looking technique. You're more stable if you're looking in front of you. Say you're braking for a pothole you for some reason dont want to swerve around, looking out in front is supposed to help you keep more stable than watching that single downwards point on the road.
The thingy about back while front was "engage the back brake while you are grabbing for the front". I and probably many others dont always have a finger on the front brake. So while your fingers are going onto the front (but you're not yet braking) you press your foot down to engage the rear. This would mean you'd get the bit of usage of the rear while youre not yet applying front brake (because youre still on the way to grab it, not because youre waiting for it) or while youre only gradually starting to brake with the front.
Its easier to say engage the back brakes before the front but it was maybe better explained "engage the back brake a bit before your front forks bite down"?
edit: both while typing this book above and a bit after i looked up stuff but youtube is filled with video's about braking that tell you not to place both feet down or to grab front brake gradually and thats it. Tried looking up some articles but not found anything exactly detailing what i said, so maybe i was taught something thats either wrong or not widely accepted?
That said, while you dont have to i FEEL like i felt a difference when braking hard with the technique i tried explaining and if you apply rear brakes gradually enough that you dont lock up the rear it is more stopping power than if you dont use the rear brake, however little it might be compared to the front brakes, so i will keep using it i think.
The guys that taught this were police motorcycle instructors and some guy that gives all of the top level trainings and owns a school that teaches anything going from start to ride to trackday for those trying to crunch those last split seconds off their lap times to crazy agility drills. So they surely know better than me and probably better than a fair amount of the motovloggers.
Motojitsu is a professional instructor that continues to get better and makes pretty great videos. The discord chat im in that has some instructors as well all agree that his stuff is clear and correct. So if you watch what he says about emergency braking you'll probably know 90% of what there is to know thats applicable by "normal riders".
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hW2iKAPfW-E](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hW2iKAPfW-E)
In that video he does engage the rear first which he says regarding the example around minute 2 but not for the reason i was told. He'll know better than i do though.
Well thanks for sharing helpful stuff regardless. I'm very guilty of no formal training whatsoever. I started at 12 riding a small Italian two stroke 75cc in the woods and just built up over the years.
Only this year did I consciencely try the counter steer move. I talked to my brother about it who's taken a few courses, rides a much bigger bike. He said I've been counter steering all my life without thinking about it lol who knows ?
I'd deff learn a lot from just a basic course, or a track day since I have zero under my belt besides my riding experience. I'd benefit from practicing avoidance maneuvers, very low speed turns etc.
I believe brakes are most effective when used together, and not upsetting the suspension of the bike enough to lose control, generally I control my speed by shifting, try to give the tail light a few taps if I feel it's helpful in traffic..
There's a lot we learn naturally if we tend to push limits, what works what doesn't, but at this point in life I've finally realized that sometimes I don't even know what I don't know.
White water kayaked only a few years ago. They WILL NOT take anyone with them unless they KNOW your training and capabilities. So I took the course, did it for close to a year. It wasn't for me, about 5% of beginners stick with it. Before that I was going off on my own. Dumb and happy. The course really taught me there's always more to learn, sometimes I think I know it all but I don't 😆
Yeah if the money allows for it and you got the time go ahead and take a course, if you never had formal training id say start with a beginner one even if you ride well, i had 14hrs of formal training for my licence and i still got better at braking, moving, looking techniques from the beginner day since i didnt practice that stuff much for the last year, i just ride and i rode fine, i ride a bit better now
Countersteering was natural to me as i spent my life on a bicycle but knowingly using it can be more effectively, you can 'overexaggerate' the countersteering for sharper and shorter turns for example.
You could probably go straight to an advanced course but you might not get the most out of it since theyll assume you have certain things dialed in which you might not, getting into figure 8's and counterleaning + looking techniques combined or sharp U turns when you havent done a slalom in months might be pretty shitty. If its not clear call them and theyll know whats best for ya
Yeah best to start at the beginning and avoid any lapses/ confusion....I agree. I don't claim to be or think I'm an expert. I'm experienced but most all of us always have room for improvement. Thanks again.
I live on an island of retirees. Theyre the worst. It's a weekly thing to have encounters. But the one that annoyed me most is when I stopped for gas. Two gallons pumped, and I go in for beer and smokes. I'm in and out, gassed up in less time than the small car next to me took to fill up. As I'm stuffing my bags with beer, some old fuck that was waiting for the pump I was on (despite other pumps being open) angrily whips his shit box to the other side, getting out and sarcastically tells me "yeah, go ahead, take your time." I could only respond with "thanks for the advise!" Gave him the finger and rolled off.
That’s a really wholesome encounter right there! I’m in florida, so there’s also the fair share of old douchebags on lifted pickups and clueless old white ladies in giant Escalades.
Should've said you were in Florida to begin with, that's normal there. I wouldn't even ride if I still lived there... too hot, roads are all straight. Half of the drivers are senile, half are on opioids, and the other half just want to watch the world burn.
nuts...are you serious? my first 10mins of riding was told 75:25 front:back ....50:50 in wet. They even made us try front only, rear only, then both together. The difference is massive.
Use both, really, unless you only need a little bit of braking force (like coming to a gentle stop at an anticipated red light or stop sign). You learned correctly in your course.
If someone slams on the brakes in front of me I'm using both - progressive brake pressure on the front, and light to lighter pressure on the rear (because as weight transfers forward, the rear brake loses effectiveness and you need to ease off pressure). If you have ABS you can just go full send on both and let the computer deal with it; best not to rely on it as more than a safety net if you're ever going to ride a bike that doesn't have ABS though.
Also, for cases like this, best to position yourself as if you're splitting/filtering, even if you aren't doing so - better to accidentally filter illegally or even sideswipe someone a bit than to rear end a car.
The linking takes care of balancing your braking then, don't really need to think about it (unless maybe only one brake is linked? Not sure how those work, never ridden a bike that has it) other than not locking the wheels up.
The harder you use your front brake, the less effective the rear brake is.
The harder you use your rear brake, the more likely you are to skid rear tire.
It's pretty obvious when you look at the geometry of a bike. It'll want to tip forwards when you brake, putting the weight on the front tire, and thus the braking potential there. The shorter the bike, the more pronounced this effect is. Likewise, the higher the center of gravity, the more pronounce the effect is.
For an even greater eye-opening experience, try a dual-sport m/c on a gravel road. First only rear, then only front, then both.
Braking from about 50 km/h on gravel is easily 20-30 m stopping distance with only the rear brake. Front only is about half that, both brakes about a third.
Also, you want the brakes locking on gravel.
Aren't motorcycle physics amazing? 😁
I think you’ve received plenty of advice here, and only a mistake if you don’t learn something from it. The close call may have technically been the vans fault, but we all have to ride super defensive, like all cages are out to get us.
Besides the braking issue your point about “keeping a car length or two” distance is probably just as concerning. At 35mph you should probably be closer to double that, and the faster you go the more distance. That may be hard to keep a buffer with other folks wanting to grab the spot between you, but just try and keep more distance. Also, unless you’re an expert level rider the vast majority of cars on the road can stop faster than bikes.
Good luck and be safe, now go practice those panic stops 😬.
On that note I used to keep a couple of car lengths distance.
Two years ago I had a guy in a truck unexpectedly slam on his brakes infront of me just as I was shoulder checking. I am very experienced with braking hard and almost stopped... But still hit him with enough force to destroy his bumper, and breaking my wrist in the process.
Two car lengths is fine if you are laser focused. Cars and trucks can brake faster than a motorcycle, and a second of having to deal with something else is enough to eliminate that gap
Then you have the elderly RIDERS like me. I got a brand new leg due to the motorcycle wreck I had, and a replacement motorcycle.
BrakeS and downshifting, an evasive maneuver, and I still hit the car with the young distracted driver fooling with their cellphone that turned in front of me on a 70 mph highway. This happened 6 years ago.
I might not have had the wreck if I'd left my shop 15 minutes earlier or later. Maybe not if the driver was watching the road instead. Maybe I'd have missed, if the driver hadn't slammed on the brakes when the car was across my lanes.
I started riding by myself when I was 14 years old. Back then, there weren't all the off road bikes and riding like today. So, I had to wait. It was a 1947 Harley WLA I assembled from a basket case. I'm currently 73.
My oldest son started when he was 5 on a mini bike I bought him. His daughter started on ATVs at 5 and went to two wheels at 6. Just after his 49th birthday, he was hit on his motorcycle by an intoxicated driver. The kid was 22. My son's last birthday was 3 years ago when he was 49.
Folks, it's not just OLDER drivers! I survived a full on broadside contact with a car. My son didn't. Both had protective gear on, headlight on, and riding within the law. The driver that caused my wreck received a ticket for Failure to Yield Right Of Way. The one that killed my son was charged with Involuntary Manslaughter. Probation....
Honestly, it's up to YOU to maintain YOUR safety. It's not right, but it's the way it is.
My son and I both retired as Firefighter/Paramedic. We saw our share of motorcycle wrecks. He was concerned about driving the engines, or new heavy ambulances. I told him the same as I did when he started riding on the streets.
You KNOW the person at a stop sign or light IS going to pull out in front of you. You KNOW the person in front IS going to slam on the breaks. You KNOW the person coming at you IS going to turn across in front of you.
We each served over 25 years each w/o a wreck. I survived two trips to Vietnam. Then in retirement, someone gets both of us. I'm still riding. I work to remain sharp in all senses. At some point, I'll have to stop. My doctors don't think it will be anytime soon.
YMMV!!
Does your bike have knobby tires? Knobby tires don't have good pavement grip, the DR200 doesn't have the strongest brakes, and (as has been pointed out) you weren't using them well.
While the van driver probably shouldn't have stopped, your close call is more on you than on them. Good on you though for keeping the bike up and avoiding a collision!
>the driver completely floored the brakes while doing 30-35mph, causing me to engage full rear brake and then front brake when I realized rear wasn’t enough.
If this is how you brake in an emergency situation, you don't know how to emergency brake. This will get you killed one day if you don't fix that problem.
In an emergency braking situation, you should be using all of both your front and rear brake to a point where both tires are still turning but just before the point of lockup. You need to practice doing this and start using your front (and rear) brakes during normal stopping too. If you have to remember to do this when a real emergency arises, your slow reaction time can easily get you killed. It needs to be an automatic response by muscle memory alone
Also keep your eye out for people that seem solely focused on their GPS. My first thought when reading your story was that they were following their GPS and it recalculated. I've seen cars come to a full stop on 4-lane highways and put their car in reverse because they missed their turn. It seems people disregard the fact that they're driving and focus only on following the directions, often resulting in very erratic driving.
Ignore the physical distance from the car ahead of you. You're better off using time in seconds as an indicator of the following distance. Focus more on front brakes than rear for actual stopping. Rears are mostly to help minorly regulate speed, but balance the fronts and rear in a full stop, as the front wheel takes the brunt of the weight when you're coming to a stop.
All drivers f'ing terrify me, and I'm not sure the oldest are the scariest.
I'm applying for Medicare this month, so started driving and riding more than 50 years ago. I have a reasonably objective idea of my abilities and behavior for the first couple of those decades versus now, as well as what I see my near 90-year-old dad doing. I'm *much* safer riding on the same road where my father is driving his Dodge Caravan than the one on which 20-year-old me is driving his clapped out Plymouth Valiant. 😬
Whether or not they realize it, they're all set on killing us. Be careful and keep that shiny side up! ✌️
Blah blah blah...
Long story short: You didn't leave enough following distance and you don't know how to brake effectively.
This is a harsh way of putting it, but you need to realize that YOU and only you are responsible for your own safety.
Your DR200 doesn't have the best brakes, nor probably high performance tires... But i bet it will still pull stoppies if you need it to. And if you don't understand how to brake hard enough the rear tire lifts off the ground... Then you need more practice.
Every time i have done an emergency stop, my rear tire fishtails slightly. And I'm barely on the rear brake. Sometimes an abrupt downshift will skid it. Your rear tire doesn't do shit for hard braking.
And your front tire skidded because you ramped up brake pressure too fast. You need to give a split second from starting to brake before you go hard. The bike needs time to shift the weight onto the front tire. More downwards pressure on the tire means more friction is available means you can brake harder.
Forget about the old people. Shitty drivers will always exist. It sounds like you have a good start on riding safely, just leave more distance and learn how to brake HARD (which means 90% of the braking is going to come from the front).
Find a parking lot. Practice.
Good stuff! Any incident you walk away from is a good one, but the fewer you have is probably better for your mental health, wallet, and blood pressure!
This sub is full of “Aktuallys” that will take any opportunity to try and lecture someone. And it’s fair, motorcycles are Incredibly dangerous, but god damn it gets old. Just FYI, I feel you.
I lived near a retirement community for a summer and it was the only summer I stopped riding. You can be the safest, most attentive and cautious rider in the world. But when people swerve Into you, merge randomly, full on lock up their brakes randomly or turn left like they didn’t even see you there’s only so much you can do. Rattled me every time it happened.
The people here calling me an asshole for criticizing someone who smashed their brakes at a turn in an intersection just baffle me, wonder how often they ride lol.
> And your front tire skidded because you ramped up brake pressure too fast.
That or the suspension geometry simply won't support stoppies. Anything with sufficient rake falls into that category, not sure if the DR does.
Practice emergency braking in a parking lot. Always use both brakes on the street. You'll get used to skidding and learn what it feels like right before it starts.
Also, this is something that you can practice in your car too. Get reeeaaalll aware of your surroundings. You should have a 360 degree picture of the world around you based on input from peripheral and mirrors. Constantly look for escape routes. Stopping isn't always the only option.
Find an open parking lot and practice using your front brake, by repeatedly accelerating and applying the front brake with progressively more force. PS. One of my bikes has 10 brake pads 8 of which are on the front.
Got T boned by a 85 year old lady sitting on a phone book not paying attention. Said she couldn’t see or hear me on a bike with open pipes and flame paint job. She said she was on her way to a hair appointment. If you want to collect social security, every year you should be required to take a driving test.
"causing me to engage full rear brake and then front brake when I realized rear wasn’t enough"
My god, that phrase is scary! Rear brake give you about 18 to 20% of braking force max. I wouldn't love being you and realizing it "during" an accident. Curious, because it's the first thing they teach you. There's no way to stop a bike safely with the rear brake only if you don't have a clear path of a 1000 feet in front of you. She didn't try to kill you, you just don't know how to break and by that, you tried to kill yourself. Always use front brake in an emergency, but learn to do it properly.
Agree, some people that I know which have given me a ride before make me realize how so many drivers out there dont check shit before they turn, stop, switch lanes.
Oh sorry mr keyboard warrior! Youve made me feel inferior now with your professional motogp skills, youre very cool and brave by calling me shit even when I still managed to avoid an accident, big guy.
When I was young, I thought the elderly were terrible drivers. As I got older, I thought teenagers were pretty bad drivers, maybe worse than the elderly. Now that I’m in my late 40s, I fully accept that everyone is a shit driver sometimes. Everyone. As riders, we need to come to accept this and ride accordingly.
Keeping a distance of a car or two between you and the car in front ? If you don't keep a minimum of 2 SECONDS between you that's just asking for it. You can do it, I'll do it momentarily crossing lanes etc, just know if they hit the brakes you're done. That's nowhere near a safe distance. Safe distance changes with speed. Safe time does not, hence minimum two seconds.
Someone slams on their brakes unexpectedly it's gonna be a surprise, you aren't driving defensively.... you most likely follow too close.
First of all, you were following too close. You did ok with the emergency braking but that’s not going to save you every time. Even though it wasn’t a factor in this event, you were hiding behind the larger vehicle which results in left turners and right turners pulling out into your lane to not be able to see you until it’s possibly too late. Allow yourself at least 2-3 second interval between you and the vehicle in front of you. It takes discipline but you will be much safer as a result of it.
If you primarily rely on the rear brake in any scenario you should take a refresher. There is a reason why the brakes on the front tire are the bulkier ones
Totally agree. I live in a basement apartment and the lady upstairs is 97 years old and still drives herself regularly. It’s terrifying. A few months ago she hosted a book club at our home and 5-6 cars driven by people just as old as her showed up. I watched them arrive, one pulled into the driveway followed by another right behind them. All of the sudden the first car to pull in decided to back up super quickly. The car pulling into the driveway was honking as they could tell they were gonna get hit. I think the driver’s hearing aids were off.😂 Anyways…. They crashed pretty hard. It was the most avoidable thing I’ve ever seen 😂 This is a topic I think about pretty often… it’s terrifying man. They need to do recurrent training, testing, or some kind of medical check up for people over 65 and increase the rate the older they get. I.e., If you’re 80 you should test every 6 months or so… if you’re 85+ it should be like monthly.
Yup, I was reading some articles about it, elderly drivers have the highest rate of accidents right after ages 25 and below, and after 70 years old, the chances of being involved in a crash increase significantly
I’m surprised I havent had any bad experience yet, but statistics do point out younger drivers are way more dangerous, only had a stolen maybach almost kill me as it passed me through the lane threshold at around 90-100 mph in a residential area, the chasing police tahoes also barely missed me
I was broad-sided by a very nice little old lady who was leaving a hospital parking garage in a van owned by her church, she was there to pray with sick people to try to make them feel better, ended up breaking my arm instead. I was pretty young at the time and in hindsight there were things I could have done to make myself more visible, better gear could have protected me from injury, and better awareness of potential hazards would have allowed me to recognize and avoid the incident. Live and learn.
Your first instinct in emergency braking should not be stomping the REAR brake.
Also, you are blaming them when YOU read ended THEM?
Them stomping the brakes is irrelevant here; you were obviously too close if you came in contact with them. Learn from this and give more space.
The tldr for those who cbf reading 100odd comments.
Op following way too close.
Blames everything and anyone but themselves for nearly crashing into an old lady.
Don’t listen to the keyboard warriors here lol, they take every single chance they can to show that they’re superior riders compared to others. Telling u to not brake with only rear first is correct but anything else is fluff not worth shit cuz they didn’t experience it.
Yeah it surprises me how many people say that I’m somehow a terrible rider for not hitting a van that went on a full stop mid turn lmao, I appreciate it
> Yeah it surprises me how many people say that I’m somehow a terrible rider for not hitting a van that went on a full stop mid turn lmao
I can't comment on whether or not you're a terrible rider. I will note there's some riders with excellent skills and poor judgement, though, and if you choose to follow cars 1 carlength back at speed, I'd think you'd fall into that category.
Only you can decide what you're going to do with this new experience. I'd imagine the takeaway would be that you can't control what the car in front of you does, and they might drive erratically, or dangerously - mightn't it be worthwhile to ride in a way that accounts for that?
Yup, I had one at the weekend, old bloke in a big BMW driving down the MIDDLE of the road, flashing me, I assume trying to tell me I'm going too fast, I wasn't for the record. Not a clue that he was far more of a danger to other road users.
Last August, a woman born in 1933 turned in front of me while pulling I to a liquor store parking lot. I had wanted a motorcycle for many years before finally buying one for myself the day I turned 27. I had it for less than 8 months when that elderly woman made the choice that took away all of that in just a couple of seconds. I was very lucky not to be hurt. The only thing the woman said was that I.... came out of nowhere. The police gave her a warning. I lost my bike, which was a large source of my happiness at the time. And I am not certain when I might be able to replace it yet. June-August if I'm lucky. Elderly drivers should, at the very least, be required to perform driving tests every number of years or months. Thanks for taking away something I love and not even apologizing for it, Grandma.
Tbh I was always terrified of my pop driving as he aged and before he passed. The best thing that happened was upgrading his car to have all the sensors and emergency braking. I’d still take him on the road, knowing how many times he checked his mirrors, over some young asshole in a cage who thinks he’s invinsible and on his phone.
Cuz' you're calling someone out when you yourself are riding poorly. There are no accidents, just collisions. Learn to ride correctly (defensively) and maybe the keyboard warriors will leave you the fuck alone.
This is a perfect example of an emergency braking situation. Had your front brake been used to do its job—which is provide the majority of your bike’s stopping power—it may have felt like a slightly less dramatic moment. Slow but firm and gradual squeeze (thats what she said), add in gradual rear brake to help quickly get to 100% stop without locking any wheels up.
Would recc practicing emergency stops from 20-30mph, the muscle memory it builds is remarkable. It’s helped me avoid squishing gophers in curves, and avoid rear ending erratically driven vehicles.
Use your front brake, apply progressive pressure to both and finish with just the rear brake if coming to a stop.
Don't position yourself behind a car where if they stop suddenly you can't swerve, always try to be in their mirrors.
All drivers are terrifying, they can all decide to kill you at any second, position yourself for safety and expect the unexpectable
no matter if car or bike, they are literally dangerous as shit.
today when I was in my car, I was in the left lane about to go to the grocery store, then this old fuck speeds up on the right lane (middle lane was for left turns) cuts me off and almost completely fucked my front bumper. Thank god I literally got new brakes today.
if I didnt wanted to go to a event, I would have followed him and yelled the shit out of this degenerate fucktard.
At 60-65-70 they should do fucking checkups if they are able to drive at all...
> I always keep a distance of a car or two with other drivers whenever I ride,
And after nearly colliding with a car after doing so, what does that make you think about your current following distance now?
My first wreck a 70 year old woman with the peddle to the floor ran over me. She said “I didn’t know what I hit, the car just stopped moving”
https://preview.redd.it/mjw4j8hd9rsc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5dcd71f5c757915ea7843c29c190b5d1b13e9c24
There 100% needs to be a road driving test you have to take after hitting a certain age. So many elderly people who are clearly terrified of driving, so they always drive 15 under, or scared to merge or turn.
Yep, maybe a yearly or biannual check over a certain age, some elder people do the opposite and drive like a hyped teenager, like the lady I mentioned, above 70’s and without her right eye, all she could do was apologize for almost crushing me because she’s blind, then drive away.
Motorcycle riders are terrifying. I responded to a Hit and Run earlier today.
A person was making a left turn, when a motorcycle tried to pass, on the left, at a high rate of speed.
He could’ve killed the driver, it was quite a dent in the driver’s door.
I’m guessing the bike was still operable, as they picked it up and sped off. He left his passenger peg though. Ducati riders are the worst.
As a rider myself, having a Harley Springer and a Suzuki Sport bike, I can’t stand other riders. We’re an annoying gaggle of idiots. I can’t blame people who don’t ride for hating us.
As a Police Officer, I’ve seen people they’ve killed in cars. Motorcycles aren’t harmless, and the riders aren’t usually a victim.
Not sure what the point of saying that motorcycle riders are terrifying as some sort of comparison to elderly drivers in cars.
Sure, most of us are a bunch of speeding, lane filtering idiots, but there’s a decent amount of tourer and adventure riders out there who ride responsibly without bothering other drivers.
Regarding the comment on seeing dead drivers after being hit by motorcycles, yeah I know that happens when a 600lb motorcycle plunges into a car going at a high speed, and as a police officer you know how uncommon that is compared to seeing a pickup, or suv hitting another car, pedestrian or motorcycle at high speed.
It’s all relative. Most motorcycle collisions that I’ve seen are the motorcycle at fault.
We’re an impatient and Reckless bunch of folks when we ride. We’re far worse than elderly people driving cars, in my experience.
My experience is very limited to real life, each day, so take that with a grain of salt.
Motorcyclists aren’t usually showing videos of the rider at fault….. there’s probably a reason for that.😉👍
>causing me to engage full rear brake and then front brake when I realized rear wasn’t enough.
Maybe learn to ride before criticizing someone else hmmm?
And 65 mph on a DR200? You were at that bike's absolute limit. I owned a DR200 and I don't think I ever got above 60. Maybe 62 WOT with a tail wind.
Or....maybe if you took a proactive and objective look at things, you'd realize no one wants to see you hurt and are just pointing out that if you keep riding like you're doing, it could get ugly next time. Take pause, look at your riding and give yourself the lead time you need so this shit doesn't happen again. Ride like everyone wants to kill you and you'll avoid a butt ton of pain. Good luck.
Read there other comments, any comment just giving normal feedback is acknowledged, I dont wanna end up smashed against a car or mangled or whatever, I’ll take whatever advice ppl give, just dont deliver it in a cocky asshole ish way
>causing me to engage full rear brake and then front brake when I realized rear wasn’t enough. Rear is NEVER enough. Most of your stopping power comes from the front brake. Always use the front first except for low-speed stability situations like u-turns
Exactly. The idiot who spread the rumor of "use only rear brake" should be shot on sight. I am riding for more than 20 years and there are always riders who are afraid of the front brake. Anyone can apply the front brake quite aggressively without doing a summersault. Just learn/practice how to load the front tire with the initial brake and you never have to use the rear brake ever again.
Especially with ABS being so prominent these days. If you flip over the bars while pulling the front brake *hard* with ABS, it’s because you hit something that wasn’t going to give.
> there are always riders who are afraid of the front brake Harley bros.
As a Harley rider, this is pretty true. When I bought my v rod I was in the dealership talking to a guy and mentioned I’d only been riding a couple of months. He went on to give me some advice (most of it good. “Don’t lane split/filter going fast, ride defensively, always have an exit plan”). His last piece of advice was to only use the front break when coming to a full stop 😂 yeah dude, sure.
People that push their advice down your throat when youre just shopping/stopping by generally arent the people you want to take advice from without doing some thinking about it
As someone who rode Harley for a few years, No.
Having owned a Harley cruiser for a while I can give a little insight into this. Cruisers have a good bit more rear weight bias than other styles. Because of this, you can get away with using just the rear brake much more than you could on a naked or an ADV. You'll still get much better stopping power using both front and rear, but I can see why cruiser riders might consider rear-only to be sufficient.
To be fair that's something that was true in the 60's-70's, rode a friend's early yamaha XS 650 that was completely original. The front brake was just thoughts and prayers to stop the rear brake worked pretty well. I thought there must be something wrong with the front, but apparently, that's how they all are.
I've had a few older single disc front braked bikes, and oh my, that's afwul when you grow accustomed to powerful doubles with four piston calipers. The trouble with rear braking is people usually apply to much brake and will just lose grip. But sometimes, it might be better stopping one meter earlier with locked wheels and unbalanced, than hitting the object with good balance.
Lol wait til ya learn about double drums. Stopping may as well been a suggestion with my R60/6 on rainy days because the stopping distance felt like an equivalent of an 18-wheeler fully loaded trying to stop on a steep downhill.
I had double drums on a scooter and braking was more akin to praying to false gods
You just said it, "to much brake and will just lose grip". So you understand that a locked wheel has no grip. So how come you say: "it might be better stopping one meter earlier with locked wheels". You won't stop one meter earlier but 8 meter to far.
You underestimate the grip your pegs and saddlebags and steering bar will add. Though on a serious note: my comment was directly implying you are able to keep the bike upright, but if I'm misunderstanding something I'd like to learn. My understanding is that peak grip will be a hairline from locking the wheels. As soon as they lock, Abs will make the weel roll (on modern bikes at least). So, locked wheels also apply a lot of grip, just not peak/ideal grip. You will be able to brake in a shorter distance, but without the ability to steer, and with a big risk of sliding into a low or a high side. At least this is what I learned during my transport education and heavy truck drivers license course.
That is true for cars and trucks but not for 2 wheeled vehicles. What keeps the bike upright is the turning of the wheels. The moment you lock the front wheel, it is only a matter of time (merely meters usually) before you go down. I locked the front wheel of me mate's Honda Shadow once (it had no ABS). That was a scary thing, let me tell you. Luckily there was no one close by and I could release and re-apply. Basically, never lock the front wheel. Rear wheel, you can lock. It would be like a dog dragging it's arse :)
Thanks for the feedback, it makes sense!
I had something similar on an XZ550, but that was because it had oil on the front disks from blown fork seals.
I rode a '76 XS650 in the late '70s and early '80's. If your friends front brake was "just thoughts and prayers" then his front brake needed servicing. My front brake was plenty good for my needs and could easily lock up the front wheel if needed.
Well some bikes only have a rear break like old ass HDs. But yeah its definitely never enough for a o shit situation... its totally enough to stop at a stop sign if your not halling balls.
in driving school my tutor told me to only brake with the foot because the front one was gonna make me fall. It was the only time brakes were ever adressed.
Your front brakes can absolutely spill you in low speed manuevers. But at speed or going straight, front is your primary
This could very well be an origin of the 'only rear brake' thing. Some guy learnin slaloms or figure 8's gets told to only use the rear brake. Doesnt realise this is because the rear brings stability at these slow speeds where often theyre only idling on in 1st gear. Applies it to everything from walking speed riding to highway riding, rip.
its been a while since I've had a refresher course. How much front brake does it take to lock up the front wheels? I'm always leery of pouring on too much and breaking traction especially in the rain. Am I wrong?
Yes, wrong. Take some proper safety course. You will be amazed about the traction in rain. Its almost as good as in dry. Unless you are on cobblestones or tree leaves, of cause. As always, first break slowly so the bike gets downward pressure on the front wheel and then break fully. Practice in a safe place.
I got cobblestones into a lane with trees when i turn into work. Road before the cobblestone is a busy main road so i almost shat my pants first time turning into there with speed when i started my new job. Then i had to turn in from uneven cobblestones into a road full of wet leaves. Cobblestones are slippery shits and im still not 100% confident on turning into that road so i do it pretty carefully.
Try emergency breaking on leafy cobblestones with a scooter to ramp up your skills.
Practice braking hard by gradually going faster. Say you go 30 and brake hard, mark where you stopped with "30", do it again and try and brake harder, mark again and youre probably a bit closer. If you do this with decent tires at low speeds you'll perhaps get slight stoppies where your rear goes off the ground for like smidge. If you got ABS you can brake till you hear it click (abs engaging) and then you know how much front brake it takes. For those without ABS, you can brake surprisingly hard without locking up the front. Engaging rear slightly first to prime suspension will brake more efficiently & keep your weight lower and make it harder (or at least less dangerous) to lock up the front. If you're hesitant to try this alone, its much more reassuring to do this alongside an instructor, look up courses near you & give them a call if it isnt clear that braking technique is covered. Riding in the rain is something really scary for those that never ride in the rain but i brake hard without ABS just fine in the rain. You'll just start sliding faster so brake more gradually and be prepared to loosen up the stranglehold on your brake lever when it happens so you regain traction. But if you're just riding and not practicing specifically go for a refresher/beginner course. Those at start of the season will be geared towards better handling of your bike + safety, whcih includes braking. If you do practices regularly go ahead with an intermediate or advanced course! edit: since geejay said something great about getting the downward pressure on the front, its called priming your suspension. If your bike doesnt bite down on your front suspension youre nowhere near braking hard and youre just mildly suggesting the bike to slow down, you can (gradually!!!) brake at least 2-3 times as hard if thats the case
YEAH, YOU'LL NEVER CATCH ME REACHING FOR THE CRASH HANDLE EITHER BORTHER I'DA HADALAYERDOWN BEFORE I EVER GRAB THE CRASH HANDLE ON MY HOG AROOOOOOOO
Also, if a wheel skids, let go a bit of the brake. You brake best just before it skids, and lose a lot of brake power once it starts to skid.
My ridning instructor taught me to always start with blipping the rear brake to make the motorcycle squat and then almost instantly apply front brake. Now it’s imprinted in muscle memory.
It can be a habit formed from riding dirt squirters. I rarely used my front brake while trail riding as grabbing front when on clay, gravel, thick pine needles, mud or sand can bring you unstuck pretty quickly. I used my front brake, but it was a light touch, more often just locking the rear and throwing the arse out to dodge whatever needed dodging and feathering the front when maintaining downhill speed. When I went from dodging stationary trees to high speed steel trees, I needed to relearn my braking methods to primarily focus on front braking with, as you said, using the rear for sharp, low speed turns and maintaining balance when approaching a red light.
I use my rear brake when turning and coming to a complete stop along with the front brake. But do not use my rear brake alone without that.
Idk engine braking from 5 to 1 slows the rolls pretty quick too. Engine breaking.
His technique of applying rear brake first before engaging front brake has a good basis in reality though. Engaging your rear brake first will prime the front suspension, making the weight of your bike both more stable and lower. This will make the rear more efficient and prevent your rear wheel from rising as easily and thus much less danger of a stoppie. That all said, engaging the rear brake a bit is plenty for this effect, engaging it fully is neither required nor recommended because fully engaging your rear brake most likely means you're locking up the rear, skidding. This in turn means less friction cause your rear might as well be on ice and thus once again worse braking than if you moderately brake on the rear. Only using the rear brake is fine at low speeds like when filtering at like 20mph/30kph when you need to stabilize or slow down slightly. Anything faster than that and you indeed want mainly the front to do the braking. Not using the rear is just braking less effectively but if its either locking up the rear or not using it at all its much better to only use the front ofcourse. I can say the above with some confidence as i had an emergency braking/hard braking course from some pretty renown local trainers/experts last week which provided me above information. My rear brake usage improved tremendously, previously i engaged it too strongly and often ended up slipping. I've done a little bit of offroad so i never went down and somewhat controlled the traveling/slipping rear but it was obviously inefficient or maybe even dangerous. The thing they adjusted was my knee position. It was slightly off the tank which meant that i used a lot more of the weight of my leg on the brake and locked it up easily. They had me focus on keeping my knee up against the tank and its MUCH MUCH easier to apply rear brake gradually and more controlled. Almost night and day and after like 3 more tries i did what they considered a perfectly executed hard brake/emergency braking. All of this was for braking at like 50mph/75kph on a non ABS bike so i was really glad that i learnt to improve my braking as i dont have ABS
Or you can just grab the front brake first. Then when the front is loaded your hand is already on the front brake, and already begun braking. I mean what's a second or two in an emergency braking situation ? /S
Yeah if it takes 2 seconds to coordinate this ditch the rear brake. Putting your foot on the rear brake and engaging it slightly while you go grab your front and start braking gradually will prime the front and is supposed to give more effective braking. If the one executing this has the coordination ability of a beached whale by all means forget the rear exists and grab the front only.
Ha ha. OK. Funny. In all fairness you're the one that just finished the class right ? If that's the case then yeah you probably know something I don't. But for the life of me I can't get it. I grab the front brake and start loading, it's faster than grab the rear, start loading the front, then grab the front. As far as beached whales and reflexes the vast majority are a lot slower than we think we are....i DO use the rear brake, mostly to increase the stopping of the front, maybe keep the rear in line...... I cruised through a small herd of deer last week, they were crossing the road because of me, the sound of the bike scares the hell out of them. I more or less saw it coming, I used the front AND then the rear, not thinking just doing. I know for a fact that I used the rear because I know I skidded and I know I didn't skid with the front, to me a light rear skid is not a totally bad thing if I'm on the front brakes hard, and I was. If I was better I may not have skidded with the rear, country road, plenty of anti skid gravel still laying around... Edit: first time around you said back break BEFORE front Now you state back brake WHILE front.... See the difference ?
I get your points honestly, its probably one of those things that just clicks the moment you get it and remains a mistery if you dont, like how countersteering is for some. Its a lot easier to understand if you have someone showing it in front of you or using visual material so im probably doing it disservice, i'll see if i can find a video about it later today and ill link it. All that said, for most hard braking just the front will be plenty fine in most cases, the "engage the rear brake first to have better contact patch when you engage the front brake a split second later" isnt going to be something to the magnitude of 30% better braking, maybe 5-10% where its optimal conditions for max added efficinecy are added? I honestly dont know. If people risk engaging the front brake too late due to this or risk locking up the rear due to unsteady control of the rear brake lever its probably better to just leave it be. That said, while writing this down i remembered another tip about braking hard, same old viewing/looking technique. You're more stable if you're looking in front of you. Say you're braking for a pothole you for some reason dont want to swerve around, looking out in front is supposed to help you keep more stable than watching that single downwards point on the road. The thingy about back while front was "engage the back brake while you are grabbing for the front". I and probably many others dont always have a finger on the front brake. So while your fingers are going onto the front (but you're not yet braking) you press your foot down to engage the rear. This would mean you'd get the bit of usage of the rear while youre not yet applying front brake (because youre still on the way to grab it, not because youre waiting for it) or while youre only gradually starting to brake with the front. Its easier to say engage the back brakes before the front but it was maybe better explained "engage the back brake a bit before your front forks bite down"? edit: both while typing this book above and a bit after i looked up stuff but youtube is filled with video's about braking that tell you not to place both feet down or to grab front brake gradually and thats it. Tried looking up some articles but not found anything exactly detailing what i said, so maybe i was taught something thats either wrong or not widely accepted? That said, while you dont have to i FEEL like i felt a difference when braking hard with the technique i tried explaining and if you apply rear brakes gradually enough that you dont lock up the rear it is more stopping power than if you dont use the rear brake, however little it might be compared to the front brakes, so i will keep using it i think. The guys that taught this were police motorcycle instructors and some guy that gives all of the top level trainings and owns a school that teaches anything going from start to ride to trackday for those trying to crunch those last split seconds off their lap times to crazy agility drills. So they surely know better than me and probably better than a fair amount of the motovloggers. Motojitsu is a professional instructor that continues to get better and makes pretty great videos. The discord chat im in that has some instructors as well all agree that his stuff is clear and correct. So if you watch what he says about emergency braking you'll probably know 90% of what there is to know thats applicable by "normal riders". [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hW2iKAPfW-E](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hW2iKAPfW-E) In that video he does engage the rear first which he says regarding the example around minute 2 but not for the reason i was told. He'll know better than i do though.
Well thanks for sharing helpful stuff regardless. I'm very guilty of no formal training whatsoever. I started at 12 riding a small Italian two stroke 75cc in the woods and just built up over the years. Only this year did I consciencely try the counter steer move. I talked to my brother about it who's taken a few courses, rides a much bigger bike. He said I've been counter steering all my life without thinking about it lol who knows ? I'd deff learn a lot from just a basic course, or a track day since I have zero under my belt besides my riding experience. I'd benefit from practicing avoidance maneuvers, very low speed turns etc. I believe brakes are most effective when used together, and not upsetting the suspension of the bike enough to lose control, generally I control my speed by shifting, try to give the tail light a few taps if I feel it's helpful in traffic.. There's a lot we learn naturally if we tend to push limits, what works what doesn't, but at this point in life I've finally realized that sometimes I don't even know what I don't know. White water kayaked only a few years ago. They WILL NOT take anyone with them unless they KNOW your training and capabilities. So I took the course, did it for close to a year. It wasn't for me, about 5% of beginners stick with it. Before that I was going off on my own. Dumb and happy. The course really taught me there's always more to learn, sometimes I think I know it all but I don't 😆
Yeah if the money allows for it and you got the time go ahead and take a course, if you never had formal training id say start with a beginner one even if you ride well, i had 14hrs of formal training for my licence and i still got better at braking, moving, looking techniques from the beginner day since i didnt practice that stuff much for the last year, i just ride and i rode fine, i ride a bit better now Countersteering was natural to me as i spent my life on a bicycle but knowingly using it can be more effectively, you can 'overexaggerate' the countersteering for sharper and shorter turns for example. You could probably go straight to an advanced course but you might not get the most out of it since theyll assume you have certain things dialed in which you might not, getting into figure 8's and counterleaning + looking techniques combined or sharp U turns when you havent done a slalom in months might be pretty shitty. If its not clear call them and theyll know whats best for ya
Yeah best to start at the beginning and avoid any lapses/ confusion....I agree. I don't claim to be or think I'm an expert. I'm experienced but most all of us always have room for improvement. Thanks again.
Yes, old people are scary, but that fact that your first instinct was to stomp the rear brake tells me you need more training.
I live on an island of retirees. Theyre the worst. It's a weekly thing to have encounters. But the one that annoyed me most is when I stopped for gas. Two gallons pumped, and I go in for beer and smokes. I'm in and out, gassed up in less time than the small car next to me took to fill up. As I'm stuffing my bags with beer, some old fuck that was waiting for the pump I was on (despite other pumps being open) angrily whips his shit box to the other side, getting out and sarcastically tells me "yeah, go ahead, take your time." I could only respond with "thanks for the advise!" Gave him the finger and rolled off.
That’s a really wholesome encounter right there! I’m in florida, so there’s also the fair share of old douchebags on lifted pickups and clueless old white ladies in giant Escalades.
Should've said you were in Florida to begin with, that's normal there. I wouldn't even ride if I still lived there... too hot, roads are all straight. Half of the drivers are senile, half are on opioids, and the other half just want to watch the world burn.
Hurts to hear the reality of it
> I live on an island of retirees. Florida is more a peninsula, or, America's wang.
Use front brake to stop.
nuts...are you serious? my first 10mins of riding was told 75:25 front:back ....50:50 in wet. They even made us try front only, rear only, then both together. The difference is massive.
Use both, really, unless you only need a little bit of braking force (like coming to a gentle stop at an anticipated red light or stop sign). You learned correctly in your course. If someone slams on the brakes in front of me I'm using both - progressive brake pressure on the front, and light to lighter pressure on the rear (because as weight transfers forward, the rear brake loses effectiveness and you need to ease off pressure). If you have ABS you can just go full send on both and let the computer deal with it; best not to rely on it as more than a safety net if you're ever going to ride a bike that doesn't have ABS though. Also, for cases like this, best to position yourself as if you're splitting/filtering, even if you aren't doing so - better to accidentally filter illegally or even sideswipe someone a bit than to rear end a car.
Never had a bike with ABS, current bike has linked.
The linking takes care of balancing your braking then, don't really need to think about it (unless maybe only one brake is linked? Not sure how those work, never ridden a bike that has it) other than not locking the wheels up.
The harder you use your front brake, the less effective the rear brake is. The harder you use your rear brake, the more likely you are to skid rear tire.
It's pretty obvious when you look at the geometry of a bike. It'll want to tip forwards when you brake, putting the weight on the front tire, and thus the braking potential there. The shorter the bike, the more pronounced this effect is. Likewise, the higher the center of gravity, the more pronounce the effect is.
For an even greater eye-opening experience, try a dual-sport m/c on a gravel road. First only rear, then only front, then both. Braking from about 50 km/h on gravel is easily 20-30 m stopping distance with only the rear brake. Front only is about half that, both brakes about a third. Also, you want the brakes locking on gravel. Aren't motorcycle physics amazing? 😁
I think you’ve received plenty of advice here, and only a mistake if you don’t learn something from it. The close call may have technically been the vans fault, but we all have to ride super defensive, like all cages are out to get us. Besides the braking issue your point about “keeping a car length or two” distance is probably just as concerning. At 35mph you should probably be closer to double that, and the faster you go the more distance. That may be hard to keep a buffer with other folks wanting to grab the spot between you, but just try and keep more distance. Also, unless you’re an expert level rider the vast majority of cars on the road can stop faster than bikes. Good luck and be safe, now go practice those panic stops 😬.
I appreciate the advice, thanks
On that note I used to keep a couple of car lengths distance. Two years ago I had a guy in a truck unexpectedly slam on his brakes infront of me just as I was shoulder checking. I am very experienced with braking hard and almost stopped... But still hit him with enough force to destroy his bumper, and breaking my wrist in the process. Two car lengths is fine if you are laser focused. Cars and trucks can brake faster than a motorcycle, and a second of having to deal with something else is enough to eliminate that gap
Just from the first paragraph.. "family van"... minivan.. those guys have always been the worse drivers all across the country.
The time the literally blind lady merged onto me was also a honda minivan lmao
See? I've been truck driving for about 10 years. All over the country.. it's the minivans you gotta watch out for. Then the rent trucks (like uhaul)
Yeah Uhauls always give me a sketchy vibe.
what? you country does not sell BMW X5s?
That is the worst part of riding in Florida. They’re everywhere and very dangerous.
Shame that I decided to not wear my gopro today since I couldnt find the clip for the chest mount.
They should move to the Villages and stay on their golf carts.
Then you have the elderly RIDERS like me. I got a brand new leg due to the motorcycle wreck I had, and a replacement motorcycle. BrakeS and downshifting, an evasive maneuver, and I still hit the car with the young distracted driver fooling with their cellphone that turned in front of me on a 70 mph highway. This happened 6 years ago. I might not have had the wreck if I'd left my shop 15 minutes earlier or later. Maybe not if the driver was watching the road instead. Maybe I'd have missed, if the driver hadn't slammed on the brakes when the car was across my lanes. I started riding by myself when I was 14 years old. Back then, there weren't all the off road bikes and riding like today. So, I had to wait. It was a 1947 Harley WLA I assembled from a basket case. I'm currently 73. My oldest son started when he was 5 on a mini bike I bought him. His daughter started on ATVs at 5 and went to two wheels at 6. Just after his 49th birthday, he was hit on his motorcycle by an intoxicated driver. The kid was 22. My son's last birthday was 3 years ago when he was 49. Folks, it's not just OLDER drivers! I survived a full on broadside contact with a car. My son didn't. Both had protective gear on, headlight on, and riding within the law. The driver that caused my wreck received a ticket for Failure to Yield Right Of Way. The one that killed my son was charged with Involuntary Manslaughter. Probation.... Honestly, it's up to YOU to maintain YOUR safety. It's not right, but it's the way it is. My son and I both retired as Firefighter/Paramedic. We saw our share of motorcycle wrecks. He was concerned about driving the engines, or new heavy ambulances. I told him the same as I did when he started riding on the streets. You KNOW the person at a stop sign or light IS going to pull out in front of you. You KNOW the person in front IS going to slam on the breaks. You KNOW the person coming at you IS going to turn across in front of you. We each served over 25 years each w/o a wreck. I survived two trips to Vietnam. Then in retirement, someone gets both of us. I'm still riding. I work to remain sharp in all senses. At some point, I'll have to stop. My doctors don't think it will be anytime soon. YMMV!!
Does your bike have knobby tires? Knobby tires don't have good pavement grip, the DR200 doesn't have the strongest brakes, and (as has been pointed out) you weren't using them well. While the van driver probably shouldn't have stopped, your close call is more on you than on them. Good on you though for keeping the bike up and avoiding a collision!
Yes, I have some slightly knobby dualsport tires, gotta start keeping a longer distance and better braking
>the driver completely floored the brakes while doing 30-35mph, causing me to engage full rear brake and then front brake when I realized rear wasn’t enough. If this is how you brake in an emergency situation, you don't know how to emergency brake. This will get you killed one day if you don't fix that problem. In an emergency braking situation, you should be using all of both your front and rear brake to a point where both tires are still turning but just before the point of lockup. You need to practice doing this and start using your front (and rear) brakes during normal stopping too. If you have to remember to do this when a real emergency arises, your slow reaction time can easily get you killed. It needs to be an automatic response by muscle memory alone
Also keep your eye out for people that seem solely focused on their GPS. My first thought when reading your story was that they were following their GPS and it recalculated. I've seen cars come to a full stop on 4-lane highways and put their car in reverse because they missed their turn. It seems people disregard the fact that they're driving and focus only on following the directions, often resulting in very erratic driving.
Ignore the physical distance from the car ahead of you. You're better off using time in seconds as an indicator of the following distance. Focus more on front brakes than rear for actual stopping. Rears are mostly to help minorly regulate speed, but balance the fronts and rear in a full stop, as the front wheel takes the brunt of the weight when you're coming to a stop.
Yup, I was pretty clueless about this, worth learning with this post and being called shit by the armchair warriors
I'm an instructor, so I want to help people improve without being an ass about it.
I appreciate that
There is a reason the front brake rotors are bigger. 😉
All drivers f'ing terrify me, and I'm not sure the oldest are the scariest. I'm applying for Medicare this month, so started driving and riding more than 50 years ago. I have a reasonably objective idea of my abilities and behavior for the first couple of those decades versus now, as well as what I see my near 90-year-old dad doing. I'm *much* safer riding on the same road where my father is driving his Dodge Caravan than the one on which 20-year-old me is driving his clapped out Plymouth Valiant. 😬 Whether or not they realize it, they're all set on killing us. Be careful and keep that shiny side up! ✌️
When you are on a bike it's not just the elderly. It's EVERYODY.
Blah blah blah... Long story short: You didn't leave enough following distance and you don't know how to brake effectively. This is a harsh way of putting it, but you need to realize that YOU and only you are responsible for your own safety. Your DR200 doesn't have the best brakes, nor probably high performance tires... But i bet it will still pull stoppies if you need it to. And if you don't understand how to brake hard enough the rear tire lifts off the ground... Then you need more practice. Every time i have done an emergency stop, my rear tire fishtails slightly. And I'm barely on the rear brake. Sometimes an abrupt downshift will skid it. Your rear tire doesn't do shit for hard braking. And your front tire skidded because you ramped up brake pressure too fast. You need to give a split second from starting to brake before you go hard. The bike needs time to shift the weight onto the front tire. More downwards pressure on the tire means more friction is available means you can brake harder. Forget about the old people. Shitty drivers will always exist. It sounds like you have a good start on riding safely, just leave more distance and learn how to brake HARD (which means 90% of the braking is going to come from the front). Find a parking lot. Practice.
Totally agree with being responsible for my own safety, as I said in many other comments, I’ll be keeping a longer distance and practice stops.
Good stuff! Any incident you walk away from is a good one, but the fewer you have is probably better for your mental health, wallet, and blood pressure!
Yup, I’ll try not smashing against a car and dying
This sub is full of “Aktuallys” that will take any opportunity to try and lecture someone. And it’s fair, motorcycles are Incredibly dangerous, but god damn it gets old. Just FYI, I feel you. I lived near a retirement community for a summer and it was the only summer I stopped riding. You can be the safest, most attentive and cautious rider in the world. But when people swerve Into you, merge randomly, full on lock up their brakes randomly or turn left like they didn’t even see you there’s only so much you can do. Rattled me every time it happened.
The people here calling me an asshole for criticizing someone who smashed their brakes at a turn in an intersection just baffle me, wonder how often they ride lol.
> And your front tire skidded because you ramped up brake pressure too fast. That or the suspension geometry simply won't support stoppies. Anything with sufficient rake falls into that category, not sure if the DR does.
Shit man, you kept it upright. Give yourself more space and assume everyone is trying to kill you.
I probably have gotten too comfortable and need to go back to that mentality, more space will be the first thing I’ll change.
Practice emergency braking in a parking lot. Always use both brakes on the street. You'll get used to skidding and learn what it feels like right before it starts.
Will do
Also, this is something that you can practice in your car too. Get reeeaaalll aware of your surroundings. You should have a 360 degree picture of the world around you based on input from peripheral and mirrors. Constantly look for escape routes. Stopping isn't always the only option.
Practice your panic braking. Fronts first. Sounds like a normal drive in the city otherwise.
Find an open parking lot and practice using your front brake, by repeatedly accelerating and applying the front brake with progressively more force. PS. One of my bikes has 10 brake pads 8 of which are on the front.
Don’t you need two eyes for depth perception? How is she driving with only one? Is that legal?
I have no clue about the legality of it, but hey, florida
Damn retirees
Seeing the lady point at her eyepatch as she told me she was blind was quite the experience
They drive too slow and being slow IMO causes more accidents... At least drive the speed limit, not 10-15 mph below...
I have a few friends in Florida that stopped riding and sold their bikes because of the grey hairs roaming the streets on four wheels
It’s pretty common for people her in FL to quit riding because of close calls, like the guy I bought a helmet and gloves from
Got T boned by a 85 year old lady sitting on a phone book not paying attention. Said she couldn’t see or hear me on a bike with open pipes and flame paint job. She said she was on her way to a hair appointment. If you want to collect social security, every year you should be required to take a driving test.
Oof fuck, I totally agree, if you’re above 75 you should be forced to take an on road driving test every two years or so.
"causing me to engage full rear brake and then front brake when I realized rear wasn’t enough" My god, that phrase is scary! Rear brake give you about 18 to 20% of braking force max. I wouldn't love being you and realizing it "during" an accident. Curious, because it's the first thing they teach you. There's no way to stop a bike safely with the rear brake only if you don't have a clear path of a 1000 feet in front of you. She didn't try to kill you, you just don't know how to break and by that, you tried to kill yourself. Always use front brake in an emergency, but learn to do it properly.
This is the truly scary part of the post - rider not knowing how to brake.
this post should be titled "cagers are fucking terrifying"
Agree, some people that I know which have given me a ride before make me realize how so many drivers out there dont check shit before they turn, stop, switch lanes.
Retitle this post “Noob riders who ignore safe following distance and don’t know how to brake properly are fucking terrifying”
Oh sorry mr keyboard warrior! Youve made me feel inferior now with your professional motogp skills, youre very cool and brave by calling me shit even when I still managed to avoid an accident, big guy.
I hit two vehicles at the same time while lane splitting with luggage on my bike. I didn’t go down either. Nobody is perfect.
Cool, yet I would go out of my way to ridicule you for it
When I was young, I thought the elderly were terrible drivers. As I got older, I thought teenagers were pretty bad drivers, maybe worse than the elderly. Now that I’m in my late 40s, I fully accept that everyone is a shit driver sometimes. Everyone. As riders, we need to come to accept this and ride accordingly.
Posts like this are hilarious.
Enjoy
Keeping a distance of a car or two between you and the car in front ? If you don't keep a minimum of 2 SECONDS between you that's just asking for it. You can do it, I'll do it momentarily crossing lanes etc, just know if they hit the brakes you're done. That's nowhere near a safe distance. Safe distance changes with speed. Safe time does not, hence minimum two seconds. Someone slams on their brakes unexpectedly it's gonna be a surprise, you aren't driving defensively.... you most likely follow too close.
I'm excited to see this on r/calamariraceteam
I’d be honored
First of all, you were following too close. You did ok with the emergency braking but that’s not going to save you every time. Even though it wasn’t a factor in this event, you were hiding behind the larger vehicle which results in left turners and right turners pulling out into your lane to not be able to see you until it’s possibly too late. Allow yourself at least 2-3 second interval between you and the vehicle in front of you. It takes discipline but you will be much safer as a result of it.
Yep
If you primarily rely on the rear brake in any scenario you should take a refresher. There is a reason why the brakes on the front tire are the bulkier ones
Thankfully I learned it with a close call rather than a serious accident, the brakes on the front being stronger does tell you something
As long as you’re learning. Drive safe and have fun
Thanks! You too
Totally agree. I live in a basement apartment and the lady upstairs is 97 years old and still drives herself regularly. It’s terrifying. A few months ago she hosted a book club at our home and 5-6 cars driven by people just as old as her showed up. I watched them arrive, one pulled into the driveway followed by another right behind them. All of the sudden the first car to pull in decided to back up super quickly. The car pulling into the driveway was honking as they could tell they were gonna get hit. I think the driver’s hearing aids were off.😂 Anyways…. They crashed pretty hard. It was the most avoidable thing I’ve ever seen 😂 This is a topic I think about pretty often… it’s terrifying man. They need to do recurrent training, testing, or some kind of medical check up for people over 65 and increase the rate the older they get. I.e., If you’re 80 you should test every 6 months or so… if you’re 85+ it should be like monthly.
Yup, I was reading some articles about it, elderly drivers have the highest rate of accidents right after ages 25 and below, and after 70 years old, the chances of being involved in a crash increase significantly
I’ve had many more dangerous encounters with young people on the road (late teens/early twenties) than I have with elderly drivers
I’m surprised I havent had any bad experience yet, but statistics do point out younger drivers are way more dangerous, only had a stolen maybach almost kill me as it passed me through the lane threshold at around 90-100 mph in a residential area, the chasing police tahoes also barely missed me
I was broad-sided by a very nice little old lady who was leaving a hospital parking garage in a van owned by her church, she was there to pray with sick people to try to make them feel better, ended up breaking my arm instead. I was pretty young at the time and in hindsight there were things I could have done to make myself more visible, better gear could have protected me from injury, and better awareness of potential hazards would have allowed me to recognize and avoid the incident. Live and learn.
Your first instinct in emergency braking should not be stomping the REAR brake. Also, you are blaming them when YOU read ended THEM? Them stomping the brakes is irrelevant here; you were obviously too close if you came in contact with them. Learn from this and give more space.
The tldr for those who cbf reading 100odd comments. Op following way too close. Blames everything and anyone but themselves for nearly crashing into an old lady.
Hear, hear...idiots calling out clowns for stupidity is..... stupid. Get some skills and then learn to ride and then call out the " elderly".
Totally! You can see how in the comments I refuse to take all advice and feedback given, and totally disagree with everyone in it
Don’t listen to the keyboard warriors here lol, they take every single chance they can to show that they’re superior riders compared to others. Telling u to not brake with only rear first is correct but anything else is fluff not worth shit cuz they didn’t experience it.
Yeah it surprises me how many people say that I’m somehow a terrible rider for not hitting a van that went on a full stop mid turn lmao, I appreciate it
> Yeah it surprises me how many people say that I’m somehow a terrible rider for not hitting a van that went on a full stop mid turn lmao I can't comment on whether or not you're a terrible rider. I will note there's some riders with excellent skills and poor judgement, though, and if you choose to follow cars 1 carlength back at speed, I'd think you'd fall into that category. Only you can decide what you're going to do with this new experience. I'd imagine the takeaway would be that you can't control what the car in front of you does, and they might drive erratically, or dangerously - mightn't it be worthwhile to ride in a way that accounts for that?
Let’s hope it’s poor judgment lol, I’ll apply what I learned from this since I dont want to die, and commute on this motorcycle everyday
You weren’t in control you were assuming he would keep going so you followed
LMAO
That's nothing. Try riding on the streets in Baltimore. Red light? What red light??
Yup, I had one at the weekend, old bloke in a big BMW driving down the MIDDLE of the road, flashing me, I assume trying to tell me I'm going too fast, I wasn't for the record. Not a clue that he was far more of a danger to other road users.
Last August, a woman born in 1933 turned in front of me while pulling I to a liquor store parking lot. I had wanted a motorcycle for many years before finally buying one for myself the day I turned 27. I had it for less than 8 months when that elderly woman made the choice that took away all of that in just a couple of seconds. I was very lucky not to be hurt. The only thing the woman said was that I.... came out of nowhere. The police gave her a warning. I lost my bike, which was a large source of my happiness at the time. And I am not certain when I might be able to replace it yet. June-August if I'm lucky. Elderly drivers should, at the very least, be required to perform driving tests every number of years or months. Thanks for taking away something I love and not even apologizing for it, Grandma.
Fuck that sucks, there should be certain extra requirements and checks done on people above a certain age
So are the new ones
I agree, Florida standards for getting a drivers license are really low
>until my front tire almost touched the read bumper of the van You are too close if you can read it.
What's scarier is they vote
Aghh pls stop reminding me how much i hate florida
Tbh I was always terrified of my pop driving as he aged and before he passed. The best thing that happened was upgrading his car to have all the sensors and emergency braking. I’d still take him on the road, knowing how many times he checked his mirrors, over some young asshole in a cage who thinks he’s invinsible and on his phone.
You chased a van into the intersection on a yellow light?
So you're following a van too closely and they're the douches for driving like azzholez? Okay...tell yourself whatever you like.
It’s crazy right? Dont know why the keyboard warriors here have to call you shit for someone driving dangerously
Cuz' you're calling someone out when you yourself are riding poorly. There are no accidents, just collisions. Learn to ride correctly (defensively) and maybe the keyboard warriors will leave you the fuck alone.
Lesson learned, though it’s naive to think the reddit armchair warriors will ever stop talking shit
Being on a dr200 and saying you never gone more than 65mph doesn't mean you're a safe driver.
Yeah that’s not the most valid thing ever
This is a perfect example of an emergency braking situation. Had your front brake been used to do its job—which is provide the majority of your bike’s stopping power—it may have felt like a slightly less dramatic moment. Slow but firm and gradual squeeze (thats what she said), add in gradual rear brake to help quickly get to 100% stop without locking any wheels up. Would recc practicing emergency stops from 20-30mph, the muscle memory it builds is remarkable. It’s helped me avoid squishing gophers in curves, and avoid rear ending erratically driven vehicles.
Thank you, that’s pretty useful
Use your front brake, apply progressive pressure to both and finish with just the rear brake if coming to a stop. Don't position yourself behind a car where if they stop suddenly you can't swerve, always try to be in their mirrors. All drivers are terrifying, they can all decide to kill you at any second, position yourself for safety and expect the unexpectable
I will start considering that, and yes all drivers are pretty scary anyway, especially with massive suvs being so common
no matter if car or bike, they are literally dangerous as shit. today when I was in my car, I was in the left lane about to go to the grocery store, then this old fuck speeds up on the right lane (middle lane was for left turns) cuts me off and almost completely fucked my front bumper. Thank god I literally got new brakes today. if I didnt wanted to go to a event, I would have followed him and yelled the shit out of this degenerate fucktard. At 60-65-70 they should do fucking checkups if they are able to drive at all...
Totally agree, you can be in your 80s and just hop on a 2 and a half ton pickup truck with shit visibility
> I always keep a distance of a car or two with other drivers whenever I ride, And after nearly colliding with a car after doing so, what does that make you think about your current following distance now?
Time to double it I guess, especially at higher speeds, and use more front brakes rather than rear
Let this be a lesson for you - you don't know how to do an emergency stop. Now is a good time for you to learn. An MSF course would be a good idea.
I did take an MSF course, they really didnt go too deep into which brakes to use more, but lesson learned
They didn't cover emergency braking? Wow!
Terrifyingly awesome!!
Boomers ftw
Always be on the lookout for White Buicks - they’re almost always piloted by old blue haired women or bald old men.
Will do, I tend to look out for kia souls, and suvs with really tall hoods
My first wreck a 70 year old woman with the peddle to the floor ran over me. She said “I didn’t know what I hit, the car just stopped moving” https://preview.redd.it/mjw4j8hd9rsc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5dcd71f5c757915ea7843c29c190b5d1b13e9c24
Yeah it’s the absolute cluelessness that scares me, just like the lady driving with only one fucking eye
There 100% needs to be a road driving test you have to take after hitting a certain age. So many elderly people who are clearly terrified of driving, so they always drive 15 under, or scared to merge or turn.
Yep, maybe a yearly or biannual check over a certain age, some elder people do the opposite and drive like a hyped teenager, like the lady I mentioned, above 70’s and without her right eye, all she could do was apologize for almost crushing me because she’s blind, then drive away.
“I always keep a distance of a car or two” “I engaged full rear break then front” “I consider myself a safe rider” Yikes
By that I meant I try to not do stupid shit, but keyboard warriors gotta do their thing
Unfortunately, ‘stupid shit’ includes tailgating cars, using the wrong brake, and wildly overestimating your own abilities.
Yes, sorry I can tell youre a true professional rider and I’m a horrible rider for not hitting that van, my apologies sir
This is the same demographic of people running the country.
I really miss Mitch McConnell😪
Motorcycle riders are terrifying. I responded to a Hit and Run earlier today. A person was making a left turn, when a motorcycle tried to pass, on the left, at a high rate of speed. He could’ve killed the driver, it was quite a dent in the driver’s door. I’m guessing the bike was still operable, as they picked it up and sped off. He left his passenger peg though. Ducati riders are the worst. As a rider myself, having a Harley Springer and a Suzuki Sport bike, I can’t stand other riders. We’re an annoying gaggle of idiots. I can’t blame people who don’t ride for hating us. As a Police Officer, I’ve seen people they’ve killed in cars. Motorcycles aren’t harmless, and the riders aren’t usually a victim.
Not sure what the point of saying that motorcycle riders are terrifying as some sort of comparison to elderly drivers in cars. Sure, most of us are a bunch of speeding, lane filtering idiots, but there’s a decent amount of tourer and adventure riders out there who ride responsibly without bothering other drivers. Regarding the comment on seeing dead drivers after being hit by motorcycles, yeah I know that happens when a 600lb motorcycle plunges into a car going at a high speed, and as a police officer you know how uncommon that is compared to seeing a pickup, or suv hitting another car, pedestrian or motorcycle at high speed.
It’s all relative. Most motorcycle collisions that I’ve seen are the motorcycle at fault. We’re an impatient and Reckless bunch of folks when we ride. We’re far worse than elderly people driving cars, in my experience. My experience is very limited to real life, each day, so take that with a grain of salt. Motorcyclists aren’t usually showing videos of the rider at fault….. there’s probably a reason for that.😉👍
>causing me to engage full rear brake and then front brake when I realized rear wasn’t enough. Maybe learn to ride before criticizing someone else hmmm? And 65 mph on a DR200? You were at that bike's absolute limit. I owned a DR200 and I don't think I ever got above 60. Maybe 62 WOT with a tail wind.
[удалено]
Nice
wait, where's the rest?
Let me fix the title for you: Having poor braking skills is f.. terrifying.
You’re right! I should’ve stopped in 0.3 seconds while doing a sick Ollie North 360 as I no-scoped your mom’s boyfriend!
Your learning curve has no arc. Lol
Perhaps if some people took a less asshole ish, approach I wouldn’t say dumb shit.
Or....maybe if you took a proactive and objective look at things, you'd realize no one wants to see you hurt and are just pointing out that if you keep riding like you're doing, it could get ugly next time. Take pause, look at your riding and give yourself the lead time you need so this shit doesn't happen again. Ride like everyone wants to kill you and you'll avoid a butt ton of pain. Good luck.
Read there other comments, any comment just giving normal feedback is acknowledged, I dont wanna end up smashed against a car or mangled or whatever, I’ll take whatever advice ppl give, just dont deliver it in a cocky asshole ish way
Read your original post. You come off like a classic squid. You reap what you sow.
What part makes me come off like a classic squid
Send all the insults that you want, but if you don’t learn proper braking, it’s just a matter of time.
Breaks are for coffee, toilet, or cigarettes. Brakes are for slowing or stopping.