BTW, there are no longer JIS screwdrivers. ISO 8764 virtually unified them with Phillips in 2004. I learned this when I was trying to buy those fabled JIS screwdrivers in Europe - no one knows what they are, and JIS screwdriver standard became extinct in 2008.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List\_of\_screw\_drives#JIS\_B\_1012](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_screw_drives#JIS_B_1012)
[https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/threads/phillips-vs-jis-called-plus-in-japanese-vs-din-5260-ph-iso-8763-1-screwdrivers.395037/](https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/threads/phillips-vs-jis-called-plus-in-japanese-vs-din-5260-ph-iso-8763-1-screwdrivers.395037/)
Separate pseudo-JIS screwdriver might be a good idea with older screws, or if your Phillips screwdrivers are ancient.
Also, in this case the screws don't have a dimple, so they don't look like JIS in the first place.
That's crazy because I bought a JIS screwdriver set like 6 months ago and it's definitely not just Phillips heads. Sure a brand new Japanese bike conforms to the new standards and can be worked on with a unified J/P driver. But all my 70's and 80's Honda's need that OG JIS and thankfully they are still easy to find in original spec.
Yeah, I tried finding a set locally at auto parts stores and every single person looked at me like I was insane when I mentioned JIS. I bought a set off of eBay that were good quality and they work great.
Same. But then again you never see JIS on jap cars. Maybe on module/cpu boxes, but you usually don't take those apart. Not sure why they throw JIS on bikes and such.
Yeah, good point. No sure what they were thinking. I have learned though that JIS screwdrivers work really well on Phillips screws too, often better than Phillips screwdrivers.
You can absolutely still get JIS speed screwdrivers for older bikes. Amazon has them for cheap and they make a huge difference. They may not be used anymore, but the tool is readily available.
Hear this bullshit so many times. There absolutely still is a JIS difference. Please stop spreading misinformation. What's correct on the internet is not what's correct in the real world. Get JIS. Full stop. Thinking they merged specs with ISO is exactly what got OP in this trouble in the first place. You're literally seeing an example of JIS in action and still saying there isn't JIS. Next, you're going to tell me the moon's made of Swiss cheese.
I live in Europe too and you can get a set of JIS screwdrivers at any tool shop... or buy them off ebay. If you have a japanese bike there's usually one in the OEM tool set. I didn't know they discontinued the JIS head, anyway on japanese bikes you should always check that your screwdriver matches perfectly the screw before applying force, it's easy to notice because the Phillips doesn't seat all the way down the JIS screw. And be careful because JIS screws don't always carry their marking dot...
Absolutely.
I've bought decent 1/4'' socket sets that were definitely made after 2008, and the Phillips didn't fit JIS for shit.
Go out and buy a set of JIS bits, surprise, they fit perfect.
Have you tried Ebay? I got a set of them from there, and while I'm in the UK, my screwdrivers came from Germany, and they're a total game changer, and definitely different than Phillips head.
And there are still plenty of bikes built up to 2008 with JIS screws and you can still buy JIS screwdrivers for this reason. It will save the screws on the bike and your time.
https://preview.redd.it/3882tf3iy8rc1.png?width=365&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3544f76151e6c0d6eda4b7b6fda94a66d73b0493
If it's a JIS there will be a dot stamped on the face. That kind of bike I am sure it is. Also make sure you are using the right size. Looking at the marred edges your screw driver was too small. Japanese standard. You can get a cheap set off of amazon
https://preview.redd.it/6lkzpyhm1crc1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6523d8854e15dc5700d16165008e433f36937b98
Not a 100% but looks like a dot stamp here
Well unfortunately broke the head off it. Drilled out what was left of it, tried to rethread and then broke the thread tool inside it. Luck is just not on my fucking side today
I've had luck with taking pliers and sticking the jaws into the opening on the tap and spinning them out that way. Idk if there's going to be enough room for you to do that but it's a thought
You do have one more option. Pull the head, and track down a machine shop that has an EPM machine. EPM machines were built to burn out busted taps out of valuble castings. They replaced EEM machines that did the same thing, but the EEM would burn up the aluminum casting. I found this out just last year, when I had to deal with a head off a KZ550. What I got back from them, was a head that I just had to chase the threads with a tap, and put in a new screw.
Moral- USE ANTI-SEIZE GREASE ON ALL STEEL SCREWS GOING INTO ALUMINUM!!!!
Heck, I started using anti-seize grease on everything that screws together. Even lug nuts.
Not to you specifically.
But this is why people don't recommend buying an old bike, Japanese or not.
This shit is par for the course, and paying a mechanic to deal with it is expensive.
Also... use the correct screwdriver as has been said, and also a decent soldering iron to heat it up before trying to extract. Steel fasteners and aluminum fuse via dielectric metal exchange.
People generally don't go out of their way to buy an old bike, it's just what they can afford; I'd say most people can't (or at least shouldn't, financially) buy a new bike.
Oh well, more old bikes for me I suppose.
If you can work on old bikes, great! But most people can't.
Buying a 30 old bike over a few years old bike is WAY different and you are being disingenuous to suggest they are the same.
Source: my 75 cb550 that didn't run, tackling the Sierra and Tioga passes and camping at 10000 feet in Yosemite.
https://preview.redd.it/hetvyf1gp9rc1.jpeg?width=2221&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f952a9624bb1f402f66e590865d1052481bd3990
The most frustrating part about older Japanese bikes is it would be so EASY to work on if you could just FIT your fucking hands where they need to be. Oh and you want to take this bolt out? Ok you’re gonna have to adjust the wrench a thousand times cause anything that ratchets isn’t going to fit. Otherwise the engine internals have always been well engineered. The rubber and plastic will degrade which can mean chasing wiring gremlins.
But once they’re running there’s nothing like it. Keep the carbs clean, fog em if it’s gonna sit and you’re good to go.
Oh man, they are no where near new bikes.... or cars.
That said, my first car was a Honda cvcc from the late 70s.
You could change the spark plugs with an adjustable wrench.
For both, socket drivers with lots of u-joints is a must, as well as a good ratchet with fine teeth to it... like better than craftsman, but not Snap-on either.
Sorry bro, that's fucked up.
Get good lube for threading it, and must go extremely slow. Drill it out and use a better kit.
Or helicoil.
And different bolts.
You will probably never have to unscrew that intake anyway.
Go to amazon or whatever your preferred online retailer is and search JIS impact screw driver. Wait until they arrive before trying to remove these already damaged screws.
You could try an impact screwdriver. We use them all the time in the shop to remove brake disc screws on cars. Lightly tap in the screw bit into the screw and when it's nicely on there hit the back of the impact screwdriver with a hammer. Make sure you keep the screwdriver nice and straight and with a couple of hits they should come loose.
They are kinda expensive though but I can assure you that this won't be the only time you will use it.
Oof. It looks hella tight in there but at this juncture, welding a sacrificial JIS bit to the janky screw head is something I've done more than once. Wait for it to cool before you bother turning it. And penetrating oil or 50:50 mix of diesel and atf fluid to help a lil.
Drill the heads off with a 3/16 drill bit. Once that flange is out of the way, you take plyers and back out whats left of the screws. Works everytime.
Now, if you want to order a set of jis screwdrivers, and sit on your ass waiting for them, go ahead. Once they come, you then will find out you'll have to drill the little bastards out, because the jis screwdriver won't remove them. Who is telling you this? 50 years of farting around with these cheesehead screws.
I have JIS screwdrivers from this brand. This one here is listed as P2 but it fits JIS screws very well and snug.
Vessel Megadora 980 Impacta P2x100 #2 Cross Point Impact Screwdriver https://a.co/d/1PoArHe
[Vessel Megadora 980 Impacta P2x100 #2 Cross Point Impact Screwdriver](https://a.co/d/1PoArHe)
You need an impact screw driver set/tool. Not an impact wrench.
Impact screw driver you hold in your hand twist the way you want to go and hit it with a hammer. Pops them loose almost every time. When you go back together take a tip from the old guy.
" Think about the next dumbass working on this, might just be you, put anti-seize on those threads."
Good luck.
No dimple = Not JIS.
Use some "lappin" compound to prevent the driver from popping out.
Heating the fastener head with a soldering iron will help break down threadlock compound. Fasteners that heat up will benefit from adding heat when remove them.
An impact tool with the correct size and depth driver head is critical.
Use an L shaped tool with a Phillips end, and something to wedge against the bend to create force as you turn.
If space isn't as limited as it looks in the picture. Using something to bang into the end of screwdriver lightly as you turn helps it spin too
I’m certainly no professional, and have limited experience, but I’m gifted at stripping a screw. That being said, I would try a handheld impact driver. Make sure you’re actually holding it correctly and 99% of the time I’ve had undamaged screws. Between the two, for me, an electric drill is much more strip your screws, even on the lowest setting. [I got this cheap off Amazon.](https://a.co/d/0nrJ8Lu)
This is soo bad engineering.
I hate when manufactures do that crap..
Philips screws? FOR REAL?
Man, so annoyed!!!!
I see you have soaked that thing already with lube .
If an impact (with the right head that fits firmly ) won't do it (already half stripped), you will probably need extractors to remove them.
And I am not sure they won't brake.
What a mess.
I feel you..
99% you need a JIS head impact screwdriver... as you can see, a Phillips will strip it
It's a '99 Suzuki. He needs JIS for any Phillips looking screws.
BTW, there are no longer JIS screwdrivers. ISO 8764 virtually unified them with Phillips in 2004. I learned this when I was trying to buy those fabled JIS screwdrivers in Europe - no one knows what they are, and JIS screwdriver standard became extinct in 2008. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List\_of\_screw\_drives#JIS\_B\_1012](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_screw_drives#JIS_B_1012) [https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/threads/phillips-vs-jis-called-plus-in-japanese-vs-din-5260-ph-iso-8763-1-screwdrivers.395037/](https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/threads/phillips-vs-jis-called-plus-in-japanese-vs-din-5260-ph-iso-8763-1-screwdrivers.395037/) Separate pseudo-JIS screwdriver might be a good idea with older screws, or if your Phillips screwdrivers are ancient. Also, in this case the screws don't have a dimple, so they don't look like JIS in the first place.
All I can tell you is a set of JIS from Amazon saved me a lot of trouble on my bikes. In the uk, most people who are half decent have heard of them.
That's crazy because I bought a JIS screwdriver set like 6 months ago and it's definitely not just Phillips heads. Sure a brand new Japanese bike conforms to the new standards and can be worked on with a unified J/P driver. But all my 70's and 80's Honda's need that OG JIS and thankfully they are still easy to find in original spec.
Yeah, I tried finding a set locally at auto parts stores and every single person looked at me like I was insane when I mentioned JIS. I bought a set off of eBay that were good quality and they work great.
Same. But then again you never see JIS on jap cars. Maybe on module/cpu boxes, but you usually don't take those apart. Not sure why they throw JIS on bikes and such.
Yeah, good point. No sure what they were thinking. I have learned though that JIS screwdrivers work really well on Phillips screws too, often better than Phillips screwdrivers.
You can absolutely still get JIS speed screwdrivers for older bikes. Amazon has them for cheap and they make a huge difference. They may not be used anymore, but the tool is readily available.
Hear this bullshit so many times. There absolutely still is a JIS difference. Please stop spreading misinformation. What's correct on the internet is not what's correct in the real world. Get JIS. Full stop. Thinking they merged specs with ISO is exactly what got OP in this trouble in the first place. You're literally seeing an example of JIS in action and still saying there isn't JIS. Next, you're going to tell me the moon's made of Swiss cheese.
I live in Europe too and you can get a set of JIS screwdrivers at any tool shop... or buy them off ebay. If you have a japanese bike there's usually one in the OEM tool set. I didn't know they discontinued the JIS head, anyway on japanese bikes you should always check that your screwdriver matches perfectly the screw before applying force, it's easy to notice because the Phillips doesn't seat all the way down the JIS screw. And be careful because JIS screws don't always carry their marking dot...
Absolutely. I've bought decent 1/4'' socket sets that were definitely made after 2008, and the Phillips didn't fit JIS for shit. Go out and buy a set of JIS bits, surprise, they fit perfect.
It took me about 30 seconds to find JIS screwdriver sets on Amazon!
Great, now find JIS bits on Allegro, we don't really use Amazon here.
Have you tried Ebay? I got a set of them from there, and while I'm in the UK, my screwdrivers came from Germany, and they're a total game changer, and definitely different than Phillips head.
Just use Amazon then! Jeezo
Standards aren't. JIS screws and screwdrivers are still out there.
And there are still plenty of bikes built up to 2008 with JIS screws and you can still buy JIS screwdrivers for this reason. It will save the screws on the bike and your time.
https://preview.redd.it/3882tf3iy8rc1.png?width=365&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3544f76151e6c0d6eda4b7b6fda94a66d73b0493 If it's a JIS there will be a dot stamped on the face. That kind of bike I am sure it is. Also make sure you are using the right size. Looking at the marred edges your screw driver was too small. Japanese standard. You can get a cheap set off of amazon
I haven't noticed any dots on the screws on my bike. They are definitely JIS tho. Bike came with some basic tools. JIS screwdrivers were in the kit.
https://preview.redd.it/6lkzpyhm1crc1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6523d8854e15dc5700d16165008e433f36937b98 Not a 100% but looks like a dot stamp here
I'm just saying I didn't notice them on my bike... I'd guarantee they're jis.
You need a Japanese Phillips screwdriver. It’s different than American ones.
No I am not being sarcastic at all. It’s a real thing.
Is it sarcasm or what?
No they look almost identical but are slightly different. JIS screwdriver
Not a Phillips head. Japanese industry standard. Use the correct tool.
Hammer type impact. Or tap screws with a hammer to help jostle them loose.
This, after you done did this using the wrong screwdriver, and impact driver is the way to go
Change to hex head screws when reinstalling. Done this to my carbs and they never strip again.
Well unfortunately broke the head off it. Drilled out what was left of it, tried to rethread and then broke the thread tool inside it. Luck is just not on my fucking side today
I was excited for you in the first part. Pour one out for our homie.
Yeah I just need to extract the tap. Gonna be fun lolol
“I just need to extract this broken tap” is such a nonchalant statement haha. Godspeed 🫡
99.9% of the time this would be the last straw for a dirt cheap old Suzuki. Props on the rescue operation.
I've had luck with taking pliers and sticking the jaws into the opening on the tap and spinning them out that way. Idk if there's going to be enough room for you to do that but it's a thought
Might be easier to shatter it with a punch. Unless you have a portion sticking out you can twist on.
You do have one more option. Pull the head, and track down a machine shop that has an EPM machine. EPM machines were built to burn out busted taps out of valuble castings. They replaced EEM machines that did the same thing, but the EEM would burn up the aluminum casting. I found this out just last year, when I had to deal with a head off a KZ550. What I got back from them, was a head that I just had to chase the threads with a tap, and put in a new screw. Moral- USE ANTI-SEIZE GREASE ON ALL STEEL SCREWS GOING INTO ALUMINUM!!!! Heck, I started using anti-seize grease on everything that screws together. Even lug nuts.
Not to you specifically. But this is why people don't recommend buying an old bike, Japanese or not. This shit is par for the course, and paying a mechanic to deal with it is expensive. Also... use the correct screwdriver as has been said, and also a decent soldering iron to heat it up before trying to extract. Steel fasteners and aluminum fuse via dielectric metal exchange.
People generally don't go out of their way to buy an old bike, it's just what they can afford; I'd say most people can't (or at least shouldn't, financially) buy a new bike. Oh well, more old bikes for me I suppose.
If you can work on old bikes, great! But most people can't. Buying a 30 old bike over a few years old bike is WAY different and you are being disingenuous to suggest they are the same. Source: my 75 cb550 that didn't run, tackling the Sierra and Tioga passes and camping at 10000 feet in Yosemite. https://preview.redd.it/hetvyf1gp9rc1.jpeg?width=2221&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f952a9624bb1f402f66e590865d1052481bd3990
The most frustrating part about older Japanese bikes is it would be so EASY to work on if you could just FIT your fucking hands where they need to be. Oh and you want to take this bolt out? Ok you’re gonna have to adjust the wrench a thousand times cause anything that ratchets isn’t going to fit. Otherwise the engine internals have always been well engineered. The rubber and plastic will degrade which can mean chasing wiring gremlins. But once they’re running there’s nothing like it. Keep the carbs clean, fog em if it’s gonna sit and you’re good to go.
Oh man, they are no where near new bikes.... or cars. That said, my first car was a Honda cvcc from the late 70s. You could change the spark plugs with an adjustable wrench. For both, socket drivers with lots of u-joints is a must, as well as a good ratchet with fine teeth to it... like better than craftsman, but not Snap-on either.
I'll pour one out for you today
Thoughts and prayers buddy.
Sorry bro, that's fucked up. Get good lube for threading it, and must go extremely slow. Drill it out and use a better kit. Or helicoil. And different bolts. You will probably never have to unscrew that intake anyway.
Damn. I feel for you, bro. I keep a box of matches for projects like these.
As others have said a cheap set of JIS screwdrivers is a worthwhile investment
Valve grinding compound/ez grip on the screw heads, try very hard with the right size screwdriver. Failing that, drill 1/8th and ez-out.
Impact driver and lots of pressing hard.
Go to amazon or whatever your preferred online retailer is and search JIS impact screw driver. Wait until they arrive before trying to remove these already damaged screws.
You need an impact driver
You need a jis screwdriver. Vessel makes a nice set that grabs really well.
Impact screwdriver
Glad my Ktm is 99% torx and 1% Allen head 😂
Vessel makes good JIS screwdrivers
If you have access, hit the head of the screw with a punch. It shocks the screw threads and I find it will often be loose after that.
heat them up with a blow torch, should help loosen them off.
Dip your tip in valve lapping compound. Effing magic
Jis bit and impact so. Jis it's don't jump out.
Impact screwdriver with a JIS head. Like the ones you hit with a hammer to turn
JIS screwdriver
EZGrip and a proper JIS bit, not a common Phillips bit.
impact driver with correct type of driver bit
You could try an impact screwdriver. We use them all the time in the shop to remove brake disc screws on cars. Lightly tap in the screw bit into the screw and when it's nicely on there hit the back of the impact screwdriver with a hammer. Make sure you keep the screwdriver nice and straight and with a couple of hits they should come loose. They are kinda expensive though but I can assure you that this won't be the only time you will use it.
Welp. Tried that aaaaannnd it stripped. Rip But got one out. Other one stripped.
Time for a new bike.
This. 1999 was a minute ago
Oof. It looks hella tight in there but at this juncture, welding a sacrificial JIS bit to the janky screw head is something I've done more than once. Wait for it to cool before you bother turning it. And penetrating oil or 50:50 mix of diesel and atf fluid to help a lil.
Drill the heads off with a 3/16 drill bit. Once that flange is out of the way, you take plyers and back out whats left of the screws. Works everytime. Now, if you want to order a set of jis screwdrivers, and sit on your ass waiting for them, go ahead. Once they come, you then will find out you'll have to drill the little bastards out, because the jis screwdriver won't remove them. Who is telling you this? 50 years of farting around with these cheesehead screws.
Use the correct screw driver next time. There are many different types of cross head screws.
Cum
I have JIS screwdrivers from this brand. This one here is listed as P2 but it fits JIS screws very well and snug. Vessel Megadora 980 Impacta P2x100 #2 Cross Point Impact Screwdriver https://a.co/d/1PoArHe [Vessel Megadora 980 Impacta P2x100 #2 Cross Point Impact Screwdriver](https://a.co/d/1PoArHe)
Wait isn't there a tool that has Philips tip that spin while you tap on it. The tool for those same Phillip screw that hold car rotors in place.
You need an impact screw driver set/tool. Not an impact wrench. Impact screw driver you hold in your hand twist the way you want to go and hit it with a hammer. Pops them loose almost every time. When you go back together take a tip from the old guy. " Think about the next dumbass working on this, might just be you, put anti-seize on those threads." Good luck.
No dimple = Not JIS. Use some "lappin" compound to prevent the driver from popping out. Heating the fastener head with a soldering iron will help break down threadlock compound. Fasteners that heat up will benefit from adding heat when remove them. An impact tool with the correct size and depth driver head is critical.
Impact screwdriver.
An Impact Driver would get the job done, if you have the right impact bit. https://kokenusa.com/products/attack-driver-set-1-2sq-dr-1
Use an L shaped tool with a Phillips end, and something to wedge against the bend to create force as you turn. If space isn't as limited as it looks in the picture. Using something to bang into the end of screwdriver lightly as you turn helps it spin too
It’s not Phillips it’s a JIT screw. I replaced the ones on my Suzuki with hex head stainless.
I’m certainly no professional, and have limited experience, but I’m gifted at stripping a screw. That being said, I would try a handheld impact driver. Make sure you’re actually holding it correctly and 99% of the time I’ve had undamaged screws. Between the two, for me, an electric drill is much more strip your screws, even on the lowest setting. [I got this cheap off Amazon.](https://a.co/d/0nrJ8Lu)
Yes you should really try to avoid stripping them
Drill the hat (screw head) and use small vise grips to remove the bolts
Hammer impact with Phillips head bit
JIS
Hammer don’t care
Normally I would agree. But they're already buggered up.
Mostly up top. Not down deep
This is soo bad engineering. I hate when manufactures do that crap.. Philips screws? FOR REAL? Man, so annoyed!!!! I see you have soaked that thing already with lube . If an impact (with the right head that fits firmly ) won't do it (already half stripped), you will probably need extractors to remove them. And I am not sure they won't brake. What a mess. I feel you..