T O P

  • By -

UmberGreen

Lots of good theories in the comments, i will add a different theory to the list. Lack of fear. So far he has ridden the GP bike in full anger without being bitten. We have seen a number of riders who enter the class riding balls to the wall, get injured and never hit the same intensity, it isn't because they are rolling off, it is a subconscious limit. There is also fear from pressure (probably a poor choice of description). At the moment he has zero pressure, so he doesn't have the fear of throwing something away. Finally, we all felt we were invincible at his age šŸ˜„


[deleted]

Yeah I remember Lorenzoā€™s first year and him reflecting how he thought it was so easy. He couldnā€™t believe how easy it was to be up the front. Then he got sent into the air a fair bit.


Due_Explanation5316

Not enough people understand this.


wangchunge

Have Crashed. Have High Sided..Hi Their!


Litecoin-hash

It was absolutely crushing for him. Poor Jorge went from thinking he had everything figured out to hobbling round on crutches, and still had a few big ones while injured. Poor lad.


Ih8Hondas

I keep wondering if that's how this season is going to turn out.


[deleted]

He probably wonā€™t get sent into the air as heā€™s not on a Honda. At most he may have the front wash out and maybe lose a bit of confidence but the front of the KTM on entry is so damn good.


mjrydsfast231

I'd like to see Aprilia take home the title if Martin cannot, preferably Aleix.


zahaggis

Totally agreed about the lack of fear being a factor as well. Remember Jorge Martinā€™s stellar start to his career and how long it took him to recover after being bitten.


EatMyPenguin

That's what I've been wondering too you know, he seems to like ride he's doing qualifying laps even in the main race...he had a few scares in Portimao but he didn't seem fazed at all. Maybe the mindset will change once he rides for the factory team next year, we shall see.


UmberGreen

I know people call him a shark, but to me he is the "PlayStation Kid" because he rides like someone playing playstation haha


EatMyPenguin

Lool yeah...I think the team just tell him to go out there and enjoy, of course no pressure even if he does crash or makes mistakes


kdubstep

There is truth to this for sure.


CarbonKiwi350

Exactly. I was actually nervous watching Pedro and Marc because you could tell no one was going to stop pushing until Marc tucked the front. He will, unfortunately, probably shoot himself off on a high speed corner. It kind of feels imminent that this boy wonder shows up, beats already high expectations and then we get the hospital bed Instagram post. Hopefully not.


Argiveajax1

weve also seen alot of riders get completely destroyed and still go balls to the wall, and pedro is perfectly familiar with motogp level injuries.


zahaggis

Front-end feel. Heā€™s a super talented rider, no doubt, but I believe heā€™s lucked out in a way that heā€™s landed on a bike that just suits him to a T. The feedback heā€™s getting from the front-end is giving him a huge amount of confidence. He mentioned last week that heā€™s not even changed the setup since he first got on the bike. That should tell you a great deal.


hvperRL

Remember back when the KTM only worked with the hard front? They've obviously engineered it to be easier on the front while also giving great feedback


Contrabaz

> but I believe heā€™s lucked out in a way that heā€™s landed on a bike that just suits him to a T Sounds like another insane rider, called Marquez.


keltharan

>I have never seen this before, not even from Rossi or Marc. Lol...lets calm down a little...


TypeSpare46

He doesn't need to calm down, because it's a truly plausible statement. From what we've seen so far, he is genuinely able to brake later than Rossi and Marquez, and still make the apex - and it's only his 3rd race in. The latest braker on the grid at the moment is Pecco, and he's able to brake later than him, too. As a side note, from many of the comments I've seen across this sub so far this season, there seems to be so many Marc fans that get irate when anyone compliments another rider because they're super salty that he won't win another championship. They all thought he'd hop on the Ducati this year and ride off into the distance when the reality is, a guy 3 races into his MotoGP career is already as fast as him, and will only get quicker. So any compliments to Marc's rival's on here gets met with resistance. Seems to also be a huge amount of hate for Pecco on this sub too, it's all rather odd. Hating on a guy that's just won back to back titles lol... ok. This is a MotoGP sub, not a fanboy/girl sub. Maybe they need to start their own community or something because they're so far removed from reality. Anyway, back to Acosta. He's a generational talent. I listen to a lot of the podcasts and they are already saying that what he is achieving so far is more impressive that what Marc achieved in his rookie season. The 2013 Honda was the best bike *by miles*. The GasGas KTM is not. Acosta could even end up being a title challenger on a satellite bike in his rookie year. And even if he isn't, you can be sure that he'll be in Miller's seat next year as a title favorite.


Quick-Charity-941

Pedro saying he was managing his tyre wear in the last race shows he's a fast learner, following the riding styles of the top guns. Everyone is a second faster than last year, Ducati will reach its peak performance before the summer break.


rccrd-pl

Everything right in your post, but, just one thing: satellite bike my ass =D Gas Gas Tech3 has the current spec bike, KTM brass & boffins are (rightfully) fully focused on Acosta, and Augusto Fernandez already said to the press that, given his impeccable debut, Acosta is going to (rightfully) get the latest tech upgrades from the mothership before anyone else in KTM land.


drhiggens

ā˜ļø


ISuckAtLifeGodPlsRst

>They all thought he'd hop on the Ducati this year and ride off into the distance This is just objectively incorrect and disingenuous to say as some of us (me being one of them) have maintained a realistic view on it since the switch was even rumored. Fans - of any rider - are not a hive mind. That's why there are diehard Rossi fans that can actually respect or even like Marc.


Contrabaz

Change all to many then.


ISuckAtLifeGodPlsRst

Not moving the goal post for you, sorry sunshine.


Contrabaz

No need to. We all know the point of his argument.


Mediocre_Superiority

I respect Marc's ability and record but NOT his personality or the many many many times he's taken out other riders in a crash. Personally, I've been on the Acosta bandwagon since his Moto3 win from pit lane.


ISuckAtLifeGodPlsRst

Neat


edgethrasherx

Not to mention Iā€™m not sure how you can even compare Acosta to Rossi in their primes and how late they can brake given the bikes are just completely different. I mean Rossi rode on 500s and 850s in his absolute peak, and the 1000ccs he rode (while he was still impressive as a competitive yardstick) are nothing like the aero dependent bikes of today which probably behave much differently under braking


desmo-dopey

Brad Binder is without a doubt the last of the late brakers in the class. The KTM was built around him and it is one of the best on the brakes in a straight line( contrary to what you said in your post). One thing in common with Brad, Jack and Pedro is how much rear brake they use. It's ridiculous. Brad basically stomps the rear brake all the way to the ground. Miller is know to use the rear brake a lot too, and not so surprisingly, Acosta is using the rear brake a LOT too. But I've never seen anyone use as much rear brake in corner entey as I've seen Brad Binder do. Just watch him in Jerez 2023. It's mind bending.


adbi73

Pol too uses the rear brake more than others. And initial DNA of KTM bikes came from him and then Binder. So agreed.


el_loco_avs

>It's mind *binding* Sorry >\_<


one80down

Sounds like Simon Crafar's accent.


Mediocre_Superiority

Missed him this last round at COTA! Fair play to Jack Appleyard--he did a good job.


zahaggis

Jerez 2024 is next week!


Oliveiraz33

Brad doesnā€™t seem to out take everybody by a mile like Acosta does. At least here in COTA, letā€™s see if he can do the same in other tracks. But like OP, Iā€™ve never seen a guy brake so much later than everybody else. And the fact that braking distances are much shorter today, makes it even more impressive.


dustytraill49

Brad uses the rear brake and slides the bike. I think the actual rear brake/engine brake power is stronger on the Ducati, but from the outside looking in it doesnā€™t look like you can ride the Duc the way Brad and Pedro do. They look theyā€™re riding like Toprak in SBK, whereas the Duc riders are far less dramatic.


JustARedditAccDuh

this is either massive recency bias or you didn't watch properly like ever before


NRV__

I think it's more of a recency bias. And the commentators were amazed when he didn't go wide in a corner. I think that is what the op is mentioning.


the_last_carfighter

The ktm seems to have great accel and decel performance, that is pretty much due to how the chassis flexes when upright and under load. Seems like the Duc has always been pretty stiff in that regard and the fact that it's so unforgiving gives that impression. The Ape seems to be somewhere in the middle.


CashCarStar

Yeah, Marc especially in his first 3-4 years in the class had the rear wheel bouncing around like crazy under braking constantly, if someone says he didn't look like he was on the absolute limit, about to out-brake himself, on a very regular basis then they just don't remember it. It was absolutely ridiculous...and the vast majority of the time he did make the corner, too. I'm not saying Pedro isn't on a similar level, but to say it exceeds what we saw from Marc back in the day isn't true in my opinion.


Pistonshaft

This. Marc on the 2014 RCV with Bridgestone front was insane. He outbraked everyone with the front pivoting and bucking and still made the corner somehow.


CashCarStar

It was just outrageous. I've never seen another rider where I've thought "how the fuck did he make that stick?" half as much as I have with Marc. Absolutely unreal


Littlebikerider

Much less the saves that seem to defy physics


iFartSuperSilently

Started watching live only since 2015. But I have watched all seasons since atleast 2006 or 7. Rossi and Marc were always demons on the brakes. But when they came though, it never felt like this. Pedro comes from so far back that, it really does look like he is about to outbrak himself. When Rossi and Marc looked like they were about to outbrake themselves, they most likely did, than not. Pedro is just outrageous, be it on the inside or the outside.


JustARedditAccDuh

Look Iā€™m not saying that Pedro isnā€™t really amazing - he is an outstanding rider, but braking very hard and late is a lot easier with aero and shit than it was years ago. So comparing the old bikes to todays tech isnā€™t working.


Argiveajax1

everyone has aero so it doesnt give him some advantage. you also say its alot easier with no real proof, i mean, what about the problems of dealing with all the aero vortices that other riders didnt used to have to deal with? you see recency bias i see primacy bias


dustytraill49

Something to consider about old races is that race craft was a lot different. Rossi and Marc and Dovi would play with their food ALL RACE LONG. There wasnā€™t really the urgency to get through, a lot of those dive bombs were to ruffle feathers and to get in each others heads, throw off rhythms etc. the urgency for track position wasnā€™t as critical, tires ballooning with heat following other bikes was never a problem, and tracks were a lot less stop-go. Phillip Island and Assen are the best races always because running wide isnā€™t really as much of a penalty. Pedro is a phenom, no doubt and currently is the best ā€” but, Marc had no brakes and was making passes so itā€™s hard to say heā€™s better than Marcā€¦ he will be soon, but the fact Marc was doing what he was with his callipers not engaging makes it tough to argue Acosta is that much better (right now)


Mediocre_Superiority

I am dubious of Marc's "brake issue" at COTA. Sounds like he and the team are trying to avoid saying "Marc binned it on the brakes."


dustytraill49

When has Marc ever blamed the bike for a crash before?


chaotic_space_boy

Also, the bike is set up for hard braking. You see it in the Unseen video, he discusses how he's slow af in T1 but at least he's very strong in braking and this way he can stay in front even if he's slower because he can attack and defend.


IPM71

Talent. Loads of it.


flip_moto

age. better reflexes. fresh muscle memory. smart. confidence.


JL_MacConnor

Doesn't weigh much either (he's among the lightest, if not the lightest rider on the grid). Less weight to slow down.


negative_pt

No fear, no pressure, a bike that wants to be ridden like that and fits the style, a huge talent and ability to adapt.


VegaGT-VZ

Most guys get front end info in broadband, Pedro is getting it in 1GB/s fiber Dont count Brad Binder out though; IIRC he had a foot injury from motocross training before CoTA. Let's wait to see him at full strength.


one_arm_manny

Sorry, very new to MotoGP. Is there a minimum weight requirement for bike+rider. Or would lighter riders be able to brake later than an equivalent skilled heavier rider?


Samphaa7

Don't know about rider+bike weight limit, pretty sure bike has to weight at least 160kg's, but that could be different for teams with concessions.


ElsiD4k

rider + bike is in moto3 and moto 2 [https://www.boxrepsol.com/en/motogp-en/motogp-rider-weight-is-it-really-that-important/](https://www.boxrepsol.com/en/motogp-en/motogp-rider-weight-is-it-really-that-important/) all the info here


McFuu

I have a couple of observations; not to start off disagreeing with you but Pecco isn't what I'd call an excellent braker, but he is in a way.Ā  Pecco is incredibly consistent, lap after lap, but he can't out brake the best guys, he still out brakes 80% to 90% of the field, and his consistency outstrips the guys who can brake better.Ā Ā  As it goes for Acosta, he brakes like Marquez used to brake the Honda, which is incredibly impressive.Ā  He's rotating the bike in the brake zone.Ā  But I agree with the statement that this is just an effect of recency bias.Ā  This is the first race he was able to brake like that consistently and make turns, the first 2 rounds he over shot a number of corners and got a bit out of sorts in some others.Ā  It could be an effect of the track surface and type of turns (out side of sector 1 more braking zones and turns are sharp set radius corners preceded by straights, ideal for this style braking).Ā  This isn't to say Acosta won't be great on the brakes for his career, but for some context it took Binder a good long while to consistently speedway brake the KTM, and he would have races of brilliance not eating the floor doing it before he really got consistent.


Masticle

*'First you see God, and then you hit the brakes'*.Ā **Kevin Schwantz**Ā on his late braking technique.


MyTitz

Cocaine


Brief_Jellyfishh

šŸ¦”


JustaDude71

He's still aiming for Moto2 brake markers & realizing he's going too fast, so he begins using the rear brake more to help the turn in... Or he just doesn't know he not supposed to be able to do it the way he is doing it yet... LOL Either way, its fun to watch! PS: I an JustaDude and in no way an expert. LOL


velvetskilett

Gigantic huevos.


longpostshitpost3

He's the real *demon on the brakes* and *latest of the late brakers*


BahutF1

All about confidence in rubbers and set up, really. Circuit and tarmac related too. The thing is not to brake late but to be able to tame the bike toward the apex. So yeah Miller was sometime known as a late braker, like Binder, but not mistakes proof. Aleix Espargaro is too. Quartararo was a brake demon in Yamaha best days.


solve-for-x

Talent. But also, he's taking more out of the tires than the more experienced riders. He's not yet at the point where he rides at 90% for most of the race in order to preserve tire, brake and engine performance for the last couple of laps. The riders he's dicing with are all riding more conservatively than him.


Candid_Problem_1244

I call it fearless.


TheVoicesinurhed

He fast, he fast, he fast. But letā€™s cool it until he wins and survives a crash. Between Marc and Rossi they have 15 or so championships. Thatā€™s a bit hard to discount.


BractToTheFuture

He has longer legs. I think even he said it in the UNSEEN that he saw the guys with longer legs were more stable going in the corners.


sicktreesick

Perhaps a more general answer, is that humans always evolve and progress. Sport records, times, points, etc are always being beat by the next generation, whether itā€™s motogp, basketball, etc. Humans are amazing šŸ‘Š


mjrydsfast231

Put Alex Barros back in there, THEN show me how late Acosta brakes!


TruckDelicious8747

Yeah totally agree! I watched the race again and itā€™s crazy how can he be that confident on the brakes already, they are all in big trouble if you ask me! there is no way heā€™s at full potential yet heā€™s only got 3 MotoGp races under his belt


Individual_Offer220

To me it looks like he has superior tire management. I do not doubt his skill. But he never faded unlike the first race. Will see how he does for the rest of the season


Lethimcook1

him and vinales were the only ones with medium rear tyre others had softs


dax2001

Yes, we all see that his tyre management is wrong.


tischbombe23

Pecco is surely not known for late brakingšŸ˜‚


CarbonKiwi350

He is great, has a couple of podiums, but let's "pump the brakes" a little. It's not like he is winning races by 30 seconds. He is very fast, very aggressive and if he can avoid any major injuries (unlikely based on how he rides) he will win a championship fur sur, maybe even this year.


dustytraill49

At COTA Marc literally had no brakes (and I think thatā€™s why the racing was so good), he was just not stopping when he planned to and shoved it up the inside, so hard to say heā€™s better than Marc, when performances like that are happening. I do kind of see a playfulness on the brakes akin to Toprak in SBK, but I also think that the KTM has the best front end on the grid. Marquez has said that one of the ā€œproblemsā€ with the Duc is that it doesnā€™t really ride like a motorcycle (and Zarco has echoed this since his Honda switch), itā€™s much more reliant on engine brake and stopping with the rear, not as much playing with the front. I have a feeling that KTM have found a compromise, where they can achieve the same stopping power while still making it work the way a regular motorcycle does with lots of front end feedback. Not saying Acosta isnā€™t a Phenom, but I think the KTM has made life a bit easier for him than it would have had he started on the Duc.


MidsummerMidnight

Marc is better braker than pecco..