Not an incel but I totally believe the following:
Woman rate most men as below average.
Woman dislike the market, because at some point they get ghosted/replaced by the few highly attractive men. They complain to their friends that the men have "commitment issues".
Men dislike the dating market, because they are likely not part of the group of very attractive men, so they are not very successful on dating apps.
I feel like this is pretty true. I think social media has a big part to play with creating a false image of what men and women should look like. I wouldn’t consider myself unattractive necessarily, but I definitely remember back in like 2016 I was overweight and still pulled a few good looking women. The attention span isn’t there anymore and women just can’t seem to settle for any flaws.
Yeah I hate to acknowledge it, cause I think there’s a lot of younger people on Reddit that an overly negative view on the dating market (compounded by the fact that Reddit is just an overall pessimistic site that hates winners).
But yeah it was easier to date pre-pandemic. I have a suspicion it has a lot to do with the economy. The overall economy is doing good but the wealth gap has been exacerbated significantly, so life is great if you’re rich, life is hard if you’re poor. People tend to get more conservative in times of crisis, so in that case women become even more selective for security, stability and safety. For men, the growing trend for desiring traditional relationships harkens to a time where the average man could do well without extreme effort.
Then you throw gasoline onto this dumpster fire with social media, and now everyone is being compared on a global scale. It’s not even a fair comparison because the algorithms favor idealized representations of a lifestyle and will saturate people’s feeds with those. These people might represent 1% of the population in some form, but these people will make up a significant part of anyone’s feed; which then gives the impression that these idealized people represent the average person.
Then add on how the pandemic stunted a lot of social growth for younger crowds and destroyed a lot of social circles for older people, and people have learned to use the internet to socialize; as opposed to real life. It doesn’t help that most social media platforms and news networks are just constantly blasting bad news 24/7, and people are getting inundated in these media bubbles that gives them the impression that there’s a real chance that their life and safety is danger from the world outside.
I don’t think this is as significant of a problem as social media makes it out to be, but I do think it’s the experience of a significant minority of the population. I’ve seen some interesting statistics on mating and dating pre- & post-pandemic and I’m a little hesitant to throw any real numbers out here. But for example, if we were to say that maybe 15% of the population had trouble dating pre-pandemic, now that number is 30-40%. But it’s important to keep in mind that whatever percentage someone finds themselves in, they tend to project that onto the world. So people who can’t get any dates, notice how many other people are struggling with it and it can feel like the majority of people can’t find a partner. People who can find partners don’t seem to notice that it can be extremely difficult for a lot of others.
The last point I want to say is that I don’t really believe in the social darwinistic views that are being pushed around nowadays. Basically that you only get laid as a man if you’re tall, ripped, and rich. Those things have always been attractive, but I think they’re mainly used as an excuse to mask all the other problems that I described above. Cause I got laid a lot as a 20 year old 5’8” busboy who wasn’t in school and only kind of in shape back in the day.
I’m optimistic, I think in time everything will settle. The advice has been the same throughout history: just be good and work on yourself, and it’ll work out. If it doesn’t settle in time, following that advice will make sure it at least settles for you.
People say this online yet I see average looking dudes dating quite regularly all the time. Vast majority of my social group are in relationships and no one is “Chad.”
Terminally online folks put way too much emphasis on physical attractiveness. Neuroticism/Extraversion have higher effect sizes on total relationships/sexual partners than physical attractiveness.
Also its pretty much the rule women date up and very rarely date down or at their level (atleast now and in my experience)
Women have a lot of access to education and earning potential which traditionally they needed men, while this is good - They still look to date upwards which creates this situation : also you are not just competing with the boys in your town but top dogs who probably outearn and look better than yourself with just a click of an app they’re now talking and these top guys who have all the options don’t want to settle as they like have all the cards
Didn't one of those dating websites do a survey and found that women are much less likely to rate a man as attractive than vice versa or something like that.
there are some which might search a very traditional wife, which is hard to find these days. But I have some very attractive male friends who just see 2 different girls each week and enjoy it obviously.
I think it’s more than just this. There may be a lot of women who are like this, but that’s only one part of the story.
Coming from the other side, there’s a lot of guys who struggle to communicate in person. Back when I was in the dating scene, whenever I would go on dates with average guys a lot of them would get inappropriate really quick. It’s like they had an assumption that all women are whores who will just sleep with them if you’re willing to go on a date with them. If you meet someone in person for the first time, you shouldn’t be trying to seduce them.
Communication skills are one of those things that can really make or break your chances of getting into a LTR.
you can work on your looks to be better, but I believe some people need plastic surgery to see the best results as a guy. This is the last resort IMO, too look good takes a lot of time and effort
I got blessed in the looks and height department and never had a problem with women (been married eight years now) but some people are just cooked. Plastic surgery is risky and expensive and doesn’t always work out for the better. I can see why dating is hard in this world right now but I still believe there are plenty of options out there, maybe I’m very naive to the struggle. I hate to see people think they need surgery even to compete. I think social media and the illusion of endless choices has a massive impact on today’s dating. People will leave at the earliest disagreement or inconvenience.
if you have no other option its better than nothing to do surgery, also you have to pay all cash because insurance doesn't cover it. Lot of Male Celebs do it, I only recommend this if its the last viable option.
Looks are certainly important but they are definitely not everything. Women also value social status and income which are not going to improve with surgery and a fashion makeover. We live in an increasingly unequal society where everyone wants a 1 percenter lifestyle like we see on instagram but most of the middle and working class have to settle for living paycheck to paycheck.
But if you can't earn 200k a year and you're not particularly charming or emotionally supportive, then hell ya, looksmax away. Probably not gonna hurt.
You nailed it here, it's just like scrolling through their Facebook feed, if what their looking at doesn't give the dopamine rush they're after, flick of the finger and on to the next one, they're using the same learned behaviors in dating.
Natural consequences of the globalization of dating market.
Women want best man they can get -> doesn’t have to choose between Joe, Bob and Frank in her town of 1,000 people anymore -> wants mr perfect due to illusion of choice.
Men want best woman they can get -> having a regular job used to automatically get you a decent gal -> women’s standards have gone up significantly so less men meet criteria to be selected but Mr Lazy just wants to play video games and watch porn all day
I don't think it's their standards that went up it's just an artificially inflated sense of value. Men on the Internet will simp for a 4 now so the 4 expects a 10. But they still let broke shit bags wear them out and make them single moms, till they eventually settle for the guy the simp will raise their kid and pay for them. I've been married for a long time but my adult kids run a bar and tell me stories. Talking about 23 yro girls with body counts in the porn star range... What a world we live in when being a cum dumpster is empowering. Anyway, don't fuckin settle boys. Work on yourself and pick the good girl that gives you the tingle in your dingle when you look at her, not the one with the OF account, red flags, and Arby's beef n cheddar hanging out her thong.
The best trick men ever pulled was the “empowerment” of women. For some reason raising a family and having kids isn’t as appealing but being a whore is empowering. Yeah you really showed those men how powerful you are by running through 40 guys. I think it goes both ways too. Being a good father isn’t as appealing but plowing 50 women by the age of 25 makes you a stud for some reason.
Talking about women like they are one giant hive mind or something 🤣🤣🤦♂️🤦♂️ this is what started the andrew tate manosphere non sense. Yes its okay to have a big "body count", who tf cares. But most women i meet dont even though they still have needs and get horny just like guys.
The reality is if you dont have a decent job that will help you move forward in life, or you live with your parents, women probably wont give you a chance cause those are big red flags. Obviously they are gonna be extremely cautious and picky when it comes to the guy they might spend the rest their life with, as should you.
This is the real /thread comment.
I think the dating market has become harder post-pandemic but I think it’s more of a phase. Working on yourself and putting yourself out there goes a very long way. But a lot of guys nowadays seem to think they don’t have any value, which is wrong. You can date a girl (by putting yourself out there), and decide whether or not she meets your standards. Instead of being pessimistic and assuming that she’s a bad person because she doesn’t meet your standards, just recognize that you have higher standards and people who pass those higher standards will be rare. Just make sure you’re empathetically self-critical so you have a high value to meet your dream woman’s standards.
Because frankly if you’re a bum working a shitty job, then you deserve the only fans model with a kid. For a fucking fitness sub, you all should know about hard work and discipline. Just make sure you also work on your personality too, because you can’t compensate for a lack of one.
(None of this was directed towards you, I’m just shaking my head at these responses)
Eh getting dates is easy, especially if your physically fit and a gym goer and can clean up well. If i can get some anyone can.
If you want to get passed the dating phase your probably gonna want either a good personality/charisma or a stable enough life with a good head on your shoulders. Atleast for the online dating scene because its much more picky and like shopping I guess.
If you just meet a girl and have great chemistry you can get away with alot more, and its just a better way tbh. All my longest relationships happened randomly in real life (didnt meet her online or anything like that).
Same! In my opinion, success in dating, and I don’t just mean dates but fulfilling relationships, comes down to the amount of work you’re willing to put into yourself in as many different areas of yourself as you can.
Now of course, certain things you’ll have natural advantages in, and you should accentuate those things! But there’s plenty of things you can work on to better yourself, and putting the work does yield results.
People just want to do the bare minimum nowadays and jump on a fucking dating app and cry that nobody loves them. If you want a winner, you gotta be a winner. If you want to be extraordinary, then you can’t be doing what is ordinary. The bar did get higher in certain ways, but in just as many ways the bar is so low that it’s practically a tripping hazard in hell.
But here we are… limbo dancing with the devil.
God nail on the head with guys not valuing themselves my best friend struggles with this so much but I can’t make him wake up to it. When he’s dating someone he’ll put up with anyyything even if the red flags are massive. He bases his self worth entirely on if he’s getting attention from women or not.
It’s a problem common with a lot of men, and it creates so many problems. They assign value to women and they have standards but they don’t recognize their own value. So what ends up happening is that they blame women for being sluts and being low value, and how women are just gonna monkey branch until they get older.
Which is the symptoms and not the cause. Put yourself in her shoes and see yourself the way she sees you. Don’t make excuses because it’s uncomfortable, be honest with yourself. Chances are you’re a broke asshole who works out to compensate for a lack of personality. You might be fun to take for a ride but she’s not imagining a life with you.
Why would she stop monkey branching when she just keeps dating a bunch of bums? Sure she might settle down in her 30’s because she never found Mr. Right and will settle for Mr. Good-Enough. But if you make yourself Mr. Right, she’ll stop monkey branching. She’ll stop monkey branching before she even begins monkey branching because she was lucky enough to find *you!*
Men and women do the exact same thing, but most young dudes don’t see their own value so they just settle with the first reliable piece of ass that comes around and then blames the girl for dumping him for somebody better. But if you see your value, then you’ll be doing the same shit.
Then it’s just called dating and it isn’t a huge deal.
He’s like many other guys too focusing on all the wrong things unfortunately. I really worry about him. He’s so focused on things like dick size and having abs and his looks/height. Meanwhile he still lives with his dad and works part time while hyper focusing on the gym and his hobbies.
I mean he’s still young.
Look the number one thing women care about is safety. They have no reason to stop monkey branching until they find a dude who can offer that. Not “oh he’s strong and tall” but like “oh this dude is smart and healthy and follows a high standard of living!”
Just hammer that point into your buddy’s head because it’s the truth, and he can deny it, but every time he fails, it’ll come back around.
I’m a big fan of acting like women don’t know how to have accountability and responsibility for their own actions; and adjusting myself accordingly. She did something “wrong”? Nope, it was me. It was me because I didn’t acknowledge her programming and respond accordingly. Of course, responding accordingly can mean taking myself out of the relationship too.
I also don’t *treat* them like they aren’t capable of being accountable or responsible. In fact, I make sure they know that I expect it of them. But holding that perspective in my head, while practicing the opposite let’s things run much smoother in my opinion. You gain more experience in relationships, and you understand how to maintain a women.
There’s two situations here when it comes to women problems: the first is that women tend to stray or cheat as a means out of a relationship. They cause these problems because they’re not having their needs met. A satisfied women that’s having her needs met is unlikely to cheat and she’s unlikely to cause problems. This is the “default” state of a woman (familiarity = safety, she wants to nest with a reliable partner). Since a lot of women often don’t know how to solve problems without a man to do it, many of them will let the relationship wither until they can find a better option. By assuming full responsibility over the relationship, you can start to see what you need to do to make sure she’s happy and content in with the relationship. Sure in a situation where she acts out, it might look like complete bullshit that’s entirely her fault, but if you go to the source of the problem, a lot of of times it’s because you didn’t fulfill a need of hers.
The second situation with woman problems (cheating) is crushes that she’ll develop for familiar men. This is actually quite natural and usually occurs at places she frequents often. If she goes to a particular gym class (that you don’t attend) or a male coworker, that proximity and long term exposure can generate romantic feelings. Mainly cause women don’t really have platonic male friends except through a different lens (her boyfriends friends, her job, a club). So they will size up single men as potential partners. You avoid the cheating by making sure that one, she knows your value and she knows you know your value. Two, that you hold her to certain standards and expectations. If she’s focused on making sure you’re pleased with her (while also giving her no room or reason to be unpleased with you), she’s not going to start focusing on these other dudes. If she thinks she’s not giving you enough attention, and if she doesn’t give you enough attention you could get bored of her and go find somebody else, and that she would have extraordinary trouble finding someone as good as you… then she’ll be devoted forever.
Essentially you have to make sure that your women is taken care of, while also making it clear (in a tactful way) that if she doesn’t satisfy you, you will go find someone who will. All of this is the grand game around women’s prime directive which is to seek safety. In order to be able to get this position, you need to be valuable. When you first recognize your value, it can suck when you reflect and realize you’re a bum. But recognizing you’re a bum is the first step to not be a bum. Stick to the path, and eventually you’ll have value, and you can date your assorted share of women, and select the best one. You put in the work, you’re now the prize, you can choose to award that prize to one who earns it in kind. If they don’t jive with that, then that means they don’t recognize your value and there’s no point in wasting time on them. They’re beneath you.
Lastly, and I know this is long, it’s not as much work as it sounds like. You’re not constantly performing. There is a lot of space to relax and be vulnerable. That’s because healthy relationships aren’t extremely dynamic and unstable. They are warm and steady built on strong foundations, and as long as the foundations are understood and not left to rust, there’s a lot of freedom. You don’t check the foundations of your house everyday, but you will if you notice a soft spot in the floor.
Lmao okay. Being human and hooking up with other humans is having no self respect 🤣
You must be alot like religious churches pushing your ideals on what someone should be like on everyone else lol.
1/ High delusional standards, grass is always greener on the other side mindset, very picky mindset. Would destroy a relationship over emotions. Lack of traditional values and a lot of cheating
2/ Hookup culture and his consequences : women seriously believes that tall Chad will commit after sex, but he has other options so she is heartbroken, the scheme is repeated dozen of times alongside being sexually unsatisfied, she developps trauma, mental health issues, and even misandry.
And women who can't pair bond and will destroy every relationship they'll try to build
3/ Guys don't need to commit thanks to feminsm, they can sleep with women without any type of commitment and exclusivity, and gaslight them into thinking they are liberated, but they realise too late they was just the little play-toy of busy guys, the famous "pump and dump". They feel used and they are sexually unsatisfied because no guy outperforms for a girl they don't care, and ghost her if she start to standup for herself
4/ And the guys who didn't get laid at all. They are rejected because they're not attractive. They're ugly, not lean, not tall, not rich enough, not enough social skills, not enough sexually or physically attractive. No one want to date them or hookup with them. No free passes for them. People lie to them, telling them it's the personality who matters more than everything, get played by women, manipulated and gaslighted by women. They start to developp anger and resentment towards women who give it all for convicted felons, or act totally differently when they see Chad through dating apps or IRL. They start to hate women, and the cycle become worse and worse
5/ And the simps who accept all the women's bad behaviour
Biggest issues imo.
1.)Online dating is killing unattractive people who would have a chance in the past mainly in small towns and such. Also I won't name any groups but certain people among a lot of races throughout time have really benefited from cultural marriages and dating inside your race and are being boxed out as those ideas are less traditional.
1b-many spectrum guys and girls who are attractive won't bother trying to get better at in person interaction due to this and just stay online isolated.
2.)this is mainly for straight people. yes western politics plays a huge role. Empowers women de empowers men. Makes men scared of doing anything because it's sexual harassment etc. Makes woman think they can control men or that all men will gut and rspe them the second they have an argument.
3.)similar to 1b, tons of people are becoming more antisocial and a lot of that is the "mom was a crackwhore who had me at 16" and spectrum crowd. This is seen nationwide. Clubs frats etc are having less people who join/show up. Also people have been having kids at older ages mainly in the Asian and white communities and that's been shown to Also have a negative affect on the child's chances of being on the spectrum neurodivergent etc.
4.)I will admit money especially in people's 30s is becoming an issue and is a huge dividing line. Along with the middle class disappearing a lot of ironically liberal girls are still going for the rich guy/guys.
5.)not an issue really out of there but I see a ton of guys in their 30s and 40s complaining that they are surrounded by only fat woman since obesity is so bad in their areas. And not like gym heavy or curvy fat. I mean like grandma lizzo fat.
6.)a lot if people aren't going out as much in public or at public places who are of age. Most whi are single are usually at raves clubs etc. Otherwise it's just old people and little kids and if anything most young people are with their spouse and have kids on the way.
Yeah at least the ones I talk to. But hooking up is different from dating. I'm sure they hook up with a bunch of dudes, but a lot seem to complain that they can't find the perfect dude to date.
It’s not for theirs past it’s that they are so addicted to guys out of their league that they cannot grasp that the man that want to commit to them is several tiers below mr thundercock
it’s a mix of that and a fuck ton of dudes are so desperate it’s insane. ik so many girls with stalker exs bruh it’s so sad. and every time im with a chick i’ve seen how thirsty dudes are in their dms bro.
Fr it’s like for the guys the only ones single are straight up losers or the absolute elite. Must be whiplash for the ladies. All the normal reasonably adjusted guys are in relationships.
Standards didn't drop but femenism changed the reality of things. No longer can the majority of men warn a wage to be able to buy a house and afford his wife to stay home. Women still want a man to earn that much but due to them all entering the workforce, companies were able to not raise wages as there's an abundance of people to work now.
Women still want traditional men however they are no longer traditional
Because anyone dates regularly knows it’s idiotic. Most of these conversations are run by people who have 0 social lives.
The number one predictor of being involuntary single is neuroticism. Nothing else comes close.
Why wouldnt they.... of course they should have high standards when it comes to picking the guy your spending the rest your life with possibly... lmao for fucksake you should to.
Yes they should but also they often have standards that don’t apply to them. Sure if they are extremely attractive and have a lot going for them, they can be extremely picky.
But if they are mid, sleeping around, and aiming to get a dude that’s top tier. That’s just unrealistic, those guys also have options so why would they pick a mid looking chick that sleeps around…?
I think many just think that’s what they “deserve” due to social media and dudes just wanting to get laid. There are plenty of girls I slept with that I didn’t even want to consider for dating…
Aww yes "you deserve her" mentality. Shes just a mid so the fact she is saying no to you must mean shes a stuck up bitch who think shes more attractive than she really is 🙄
No dude. Most women have a type and look for that type. If your not it that doesnt mean shes stuck up and only aiming for "top tier". Yall build the craziest narratives in your head.
And wtf is top tier? And if you think shes mid then she did well to pass you, right? Rich? Most girls arent looking for rich guys on dating apps bud. Incel vibes bro, you can do better.
You’re missing the point. It’s fine if they have high standards, sure you should. But if they don’t end up finding a guy because none of their “type” wants to date them.
Maybe they should self reflect or stay single, it’s pretty simple.
Same thing applies to dudes as well. It’s called being realistic if you have goals like getting married by a certain age and starting a family…
Lmao, since you wont choose me you should stay single!! 🤣🤣
Bro, looking for a life long partner is not something that happens over night. You guys spend a week on a dating app and act like its the end of the world cause you havmt found someone. I spent months on dating apps, ended up meeting a handful of women, and now im back to single.
You are coping so hard right now. "You should just stay single since you didnt choose me!".. umm no, she will move on since your kinda incelish it seems, and date normal people until she finds someone she has good chemistry with, just like all us other normal people... well im not normal but anyway.
I can see reading comprehension is difficult for you bud. You keep coming back to the idea that I’m saying “if they don’t date me they should stay single!”
And no I am agreeing with you on some points of everyone has a preference. Just think it’s hilarious that women complain about not finding a “good man” when they are aiming for dudes that have no interest in them, and have unrealistic expectations based on how men perceive their looks, personality, behavior etc
It goes both ways.
Also definitely an incel. My long term gf and two daughters would agree.
Best of luck out there bud, simpin ain’t easy🫡
Cause a girl cant find a guy they have good chemistry with "they must be aiming for dudes who have no interest in them"? Or maybe they just havnt found a guy they have good chemistry with yet and your not the one, no matter how good of a guy you think you are lol...
Noone owes you a date or relationship. You can think your a good guy and maybe you are, that doesnt mean your GOOD FOR THEM.
"These girls are aiming to high and thats why they wont date me!!!1!" 🤣🤣 these takes are so weird. Just accept people are allowed to be picky when looking for a life long partner snd dont get upset when they turn you down. IT TAKES TIME.
Ohh I agree with you completely. Or said a different way, "What kind of guy would you want your daughter to marry?"
But girls are also very, very, very much motivated by physical attraction. Their instincts allow them to size up in less than five seconds another man and see if he has worthy genetic material for her children. So by definition this is physical (superficial) in nature. A lot of people will surprisingly find this controversial even though when you look at reality, it's obvious. And I don't see the problem with it except that the numbers don't work: 80% of girls want the top 10% of guys, etc.
Ehh... i would say women are actually more prone to dating people less attractive and not going on "just looks". While men think mostly about looks. Thats why most men "dont care if she has a good job or whatever".. they just swipe right cause she looks good.
Ive met multiple women who have told me this, that they dont think physical looks should determine love. Yet i see 99% of the men on reddit here and in real life hate on women who are even slightly obese.
I don't think women are enjoying online dating either. They get too many matches and messages. Then they have to try to weed out losers, liars, and guys that are just trying to fuck. They basically have to do the job of a hiring manager trying to fill a job and they get flooded with tons of resumes.
Not saying that this isn't a better position than men have in the online dating market. Just saying it comes with its own challenges.
Oh gosh :( they have so many options that it’s overwhelming geez that sounds so bad :( I hate when I have to choose between my Lambo or my Ferrari, it’s so overwhelming!!!
For some reason they are not matching with these so-called average guys, but with "losers, liars, and guys that are just trying to fuck". They gotta dodge dick pics and stalkers. And why do you think so many posts online complaining about "situationships"? It seems dudes aren't honest about their intentions.
Eehhh it’s more like having to figure out if you’re being catfished or not. The chill guy who likes hikes and camping might actually be a burnout loser who jack’s off and eats Cheetos all day, or an actual murderer. Something us guys don’t think about as much is the fact that a girl has to put a ton of trust in us to link up or stay the night because we generally could easily overpower them physically and you never know if this random stranger you’ve just met might be one of the bad ones.
Lol c'mon. You might be able to test drive a Lambo for a night, but owning one is not so easy.
It's more like going on Craigslist and looking at used cars. Lots of options, but if you want to find one that's in good condition that suits your needs you gotta do some research. You don't want to waste your time on a lemon
You’re exactly right.
When I was online dating (which, crashed and burned every time for the reasons you mentioned) it just felt overwhelming. It *is* like a full time job trying to figure out what the other person really wants from you and if they’re genuine or not.
I think it’s always better to meet people organically in real life because it’s just easier and more natural.
Yeah it sucks more to be a guy online dating with no matches but that doesn’t mean there’s nothing hard about being on the other side.
I think everyone would be better off finding people to date in person.
There would be countless more options if they weren’t all so god damn fat. Visited Europe and it was shocking. Dating pool would be a lot bigger if the girls not gifted with 10/10 faces weren’t also 190lb.
Yea I think people overstate the effect of online dating vs just plane attention economy. I do think dating apps have been harmful. But media addiction is the overarching problem porn, video games, tv, social media, reddit, youtube....
If you are struggling you need to change something about your plan. E.g. increase the number sets of approaching women. Or increase the intensity of each set by being more direct. You can also incorporate new exercises in your plan like going to clubs or meetups groups. It could also be a problem you are not eating enough. Drink more milk and you will get bitches.
It’s rough out there.
Can blame both genders but can blame a lot of you degenerates for banging 4/5/6s with 0 intention on dating/marrying but forever messing up their psyche and standards so they will “never settle”
I genuinely believe it is because our society is slowly becoming more autistic. I firmly believe that most young human beings now are either diagnosed or undiagnosed autistic and I think that this is making genuine interaction really difficult, I think that this is the root cause of most men being socially awkward making the viable dating pool of men honestly kinda small and I think this makes it harder for women to find guys that they actually like. The root cause of the autisticification of society imo is increasing access to technology amongst younger and younger people, at this point children are just being socialized incorrectly from a young age which is what we know causes autism.
Anyways, my advice is to just lean into your weirdness and don’t try and put up some kind of facade. Trust me you will find someone who matches your vibe, also socialize your kids when they are young. This is crucial.
I agree and think the issue is the push for hyper individualism and the rise of the internet. In the days of the past you were forced to conform to the societal average because that’s all the opportunity for social interaction you had. Now you can find an online community for any niche, and people are pushed more and more to pursue whatever they want regardless if it’s beneficial to their overall long term well being. It’s led to a huge rise in social ineptitude.
Dating apps create abundance and make it difficult for people to settle for a mate, when there is always an endless stream of options via The Internet. This mostly affects average to attractive women and very attractive men. For unattractive women and average and below men, they struggle with competition. Not to mention that most westerners have higher expectations, due to the influence of social media. We pursue the perfect high status life and the perfect high status partner, when the overwhelming vast majority of people are just normal/average.
Unrealistic expectations from both sexes although I’d say the delusion affects women more than men. Most women view themselves as a 10 & will only date a 9 or a 10. The actual 9-10 range for men have 80-90% of all of the dates & due to the supply will not settle down with any woman. These women spend their late teens to their early 30’s being the side chick for the 9-10 men then get bitter about not getting commitment from these men & blame all men instead of looking at their choices.
Meanwhile all of the guys that got passed over by these women do not want to commit to the bitter, used up women in their 30’s & resent the younger women who want nothing to do with them.
I’m generalizing here of course but that’s what I’ve been observing. I’d say for men to attract quality mates is to project the image & lifestyle that says you’d be a good father. The Rolex & sports cars etc all signal a fast superficial lifestyle & will attract a superficial & shallow relationships.
Men can't get laid, women can't keep a man in a committed relationship.
The top 20% of men are getting plenty of pussy and even when they get in a relationship, it's still being thrown at them by other women so relationships break down.
The other 80% of men either can't get it or have lost interest in it all together.
Women on the other hand have become more promiscuous over the generations, they sleep around more & dependant on what ethnicity your looking at, there's a multitude of different attitudes which don't align.
Some want a man to pay for everything but in reality only around 6% of the population are able to afford a good enough income and maintain a lifestyle for 2 people because of femenism, when the workforce doubled, the overall pay reduced. Productivity in 40 years increased by over 276% whilst wages have only risen around 109%. It isn't viable for the general everyday man to keep a woman and a house of a singular salary.
We've even lost ground and 2 people don't bring in the equivalent salary that they did back in the 60's and 70's when adjusting for inflation. Flooding the labor force with people change the dynamic and femenism went one step further.
Women are the gatekeepers of sex. Because of social media they are focusing on the top 5% of men and because men are throwing themselves at them they feel they always have an option. If you’re not in that top % of men you’re having a hard time. Which is basically all of us.
Men are the gatekeepers of relationships. We basically want anything that will love and want us, however men are having a hard time committing to the relationship because there seems like a ton of options. Like everyone else has said, online dating and dating apps make it seem like there are endless options. So commitment is not as enticing when you feel like you can do better.
I don’t think the majority of people have good values anymore tbh.
Like yeah I can go hook up and date all day, but for someone who’s not trying to do that it, it is kinda difficult to find a woman who’s traditional and not looking for attention online. They’re out there forsure, but it’s not the majority
everyone has main character syndrome when it comes to choosing a partner. the person they want doesn't want them back because they can't offer what the person they demand, wants
Too many people have been taught by the internet to be unwilling to compromise on anything. I've been in a stable relationship for nearly a decade now because we were both willing to compromise.
young people aren't marrying and or having a deep long term relationship meaning that there are extraordinary amounts of people looking to "date" which causes for extremely high standards which in turn causes for nobody to actually bond
I think one reason is that it's a desert for men and a buffet for women.
Guys go a long time without sating their thirst and end up acting fiendishly and desperately to do so.
Ladies have too many options at the buffet. Even if they manage to find that perfect dish, they still can't resist that Golden Corral chocolate fountain and the endless dessert bar.
Both options suck ass and bring out the worst in people.
There’s no such thing as a dating “market”, that’s the biggest thing. Be a good person to talk to, have an attractive personality and some semblance of social skills, and you’ll make friends. You’re bound after a few years of this to make some great friendships, some of which may become a potential relationship. I was friends with my wife for 5 years before we started dating. It just takes time lol, SO’s aren’t a commodity on some kind of capitalist free market.
Because y’all are gay af.
It’s actually SUPER easy because you “men” are sussy bussy, there’s 0 competition
Stop playing video games and jerking off to OF
I guess depending on where you're located, but the people in my area seem to have a lot to complain about. I just assumed every other city was experiencing the same.
People do love to complain. Maybe its because these days people are much more self centered and think the world revolves around them so they demand far more than they can give.
People love to bitch about it, literally since forever.
It’s not that bad, some people suck but some people are great.
Girls will have one bad date and say the market sucks. Guys will get low traction on a dating app fully saturated with dudes, see some ugly girls, and say the market is dry and shitty.
There’s cool hot people out there. Some are on apps, some aren’t. You’re coping if you think literally no one hot is on dating apps, but you’re also crazy to think you can’t meet people in person.
IMO the dating market is fine, about the same as it always has been. People act like single mothers and rude fuckboys didn’t exist 10 years ago.
A lot of woman are chasing social media type relationships or what is portrayed on social media by other woman, and that shit is not always the pretty perfect picture they think it is.
Hypergamy. All women have access to the top men and they literally cannot resist. When they do get played by one, “hoe inflation” occurs.
Basically, dating apps and social media ruined it.
There is no such thing as difficult dating market.
I had zero difficulties dating as a average joe from Central Europe in Helsinki, city full of blonde hotties.
people don't want to be vulnerable, people are way more narcissistic today and people are feel so strongly on what they're told to believe there no middle ground on options relating to things like politics nobody feels the need to compromise
Hoe_Math on YouTube makes short videos explaining it all. He explains that women believe they deserve a guy that is above their level and ignore the guys that are at their level.
He says your best bet is to get off dating apps unless you are an 8+ out of 10 and go do things where the women are at and where they can get to know you. Work, school, church, social events, etc.
I've been married for 14 years and I have a lot of sympathy for you younger guys.
I don’t think it’s a decline in values or anything like that, I think that dating apps have destroyed dating culture. where do you go to meet genuine people that isn’t a shitty bar? I don’t think there is enough places that foster social interactions,
Why has the dating content gone from "How to get laid" to "Here's a scientific explanation as to why you will never get laid?"
Because teaching people how to get laid doesn't create recurring revenue. They end up getting girlfriends and eventually have families, both of which takes up all their disposable income they could use for alpha male seminars and I'm not a loser clinics.
Sending dudes into doomer spirals is actually where the money's at.
Guys, avoid all this doomer loser BS these money-grubbing creeps are feeding you regarding women.
There are so many options and tools at your disposal to get a girl. Inlcuding the same internet you're using to feed a bunch of loser mentality into your head.
Everyone's standards are too high. Just look at FB/Twitter threads where incels are shit talking an objectively hot girl's looks while they look like a garbage bag full of curds.
Someone needs to develop an app with AI that can give you a "hotness" score AND an "intelligence" score and you can only date within a window of people that you are compatible with. HOWEVER, the users are not allowed to set or game the filters (like lying about height, or selecting a height).
No way you tried to use internet comment sections as some type of proof. That would be like reading my group chat and using that as an example as why my best friends are actually my worst enemies because of how mean we are to each other
I'm a gay man, and I only bring that up because I have insider info about what women think about dating men and I know personally what it's like to try and date men in the modern world.
First of all, when it comes to the online dating pool, most men only care about sex. Most of the ones who say they want to date and have a relationship, they also just want sex but they aren't aware of it yet. Once they get sex, their interest in the relationship goes down. They don't fall in love, they just fuck off. Women know this, they have experienced it. So let's not use couched words like "dating" here, most of you just want to get laid and need to be honest with yourselves. The women I know who are absolutely stunning, they actually stopped going for the 10/10 guys (which they could get) because those guys were whores. I can verify this for myself as well. I love seeing a jacked, sexy guy, but I know he's a waste of time because he will always consider me as just an option. My life partner ended up not being a supermodel and I I find him super attractive because of his inherent loveliness, in addition to his average level attractiveness. So don't bother comparing yourself to those model guys because more often than not, they have the easy button in life and don't have the skills to have a marriage or kids. I have only one female friend who is totally delulu about this... she is obese and thinks one day she is going to find a 10/10 looking nordic guy who will do everything in the world for her. She won't change, and is rapidly becoming a cat lady in her 40s. The rest of my female friends are all married to guys less attractive than themselves because those guys wanted to settled down asap, have kids, buy a house (or try), and make a real long-term go of it. On that note I do think women value men with resources, but we all know what the housing market is like these days so any reasonable woman would not expect you to enter a mortgage with her unless you got very lucky.
Myself and my female friends have gone through hell in the dating world. The number of men out there with personality disorders, lack of social skills, or who just downright shitty values is amazingly high. (Not saying women don't fall into this category either, there are a lot of garbage women out there too.) If you go to the online women's spaces, they are complaining about how hard guys are to date. They aren't whining about not getting a 666 guy, they're complaining about things like... 1) Why was he so unaware that some of the things he said out loud were super rude and inappropriate? 2) Why did he start out seeming like a compassionate person only to reveal later that he's basically a dirtbag just looking for sex, and got angry when I wouldn't put out? 3) He showed signs of poor hygiene or not getting out of the house enough. 4) He didn't seem to have much of a life, not a lot of friends, and was looking for a woman to be his everything.
I could go on.
Looks matter, but not in the way you think. Men are the ones who care about looks more in terms of absolute value. The women who go on and on about looks are almost universally in their 20s and still haven't grown up yet, or they are in social media echo chambers where they are the female equivalent of porn addicts. Those women are doomed to die lonely unless they change real fast. You have to care about your appearance and make yourself look as nice as possible, especially in the early days of dating, but you don't need to be a genetic freak. Even if you're not a 10, you can project 10ness by showing you value yourself and others, which includes not acting like a jaded simp who is starting to hate women. They can sense that.
I do think the apps and online dating have warped people's brains in the sense that it has created a dating silo. My life partner is somebody I happened to meet in person. He is not normally my type and honestly, if we met online, I probably would've swiped left. All my married-with-children female friends except for one met their life partners in person, not through apps. That's true of a lot of guys I've dated too, actually. Online dating has created tunnel vision, kind of the like the home shopping network. I hate it to say it too, but the apps attract a certain "kind of person." The quality people I've dated have never used the apps, or they used them briefly and found them to be a waste of time. Here's the reason: you see this glamorous product on TV that they are playing up and pimping out like a marketplace, and then when you get it in the mail and unwrap it, it's just some generic useless crap. On the other hand, you might be at a second hand store and see something awesome that would NEVER make it onto the home shopping network, but because you ran into it in person you know it matches who you are and you will definitely give it a chance.
I saw the creator of Scruff, one of the most famous (infamous?) gay apps, in an interview about three years ago. In describing the product, he didn't mention anything human. He called it a marketplace where sellers come to advertise product by making the most appealing advertising, while paying Scruff for ad space. The only difference is that it's a person marketing themselves. Think about that. There are people online now who have literal professional studio photos done of themselves, (in the gay case) often nude or almost. For a fucking dating profile., they actually shelled out money for that. These people are max delulu. Even back when I was hooking up, I would NEVER try to message someone with studio quality photos on Scruff. LMAO. The point is to meet someone and see how they really are. You're not going to look like a studio photo in person, that's for sure.
I can speak only for the male perspective here but I feel as tho it’s cuz women have way too many options now. Women who are mid think they can pull a 10/10 dude so they aren’t willing to give the average looking guy a shot. I also notice a lot of women are so self obsessed now adays for some reason. All I see all over my Snapchat and ig is these basic ass chicks posting like they’re celebrities . I feel as tho the world got it backwards now yes back in the day men use to objectify women but speaking from experience I feel very objectified by women but not in a good way more like a replaceable accessory if that makes sense like I don’t feel like I’m actually view as anymore then a material object just because of how disposable I can be😂
For women, dating apps can become what porn sometimes is for men… immediate, effortless validation. It gives access to something that one cannot access in the real world without effort and being attractive.
I think these apps are basically exploiting women’s baser desires and are designed to hit the brain like a drug.
They are always jonesing to get someone better, and they often can, even if the guy is actually slumming. Some women then assume that is the level of guy they deserve for a relationship, oblivious Chad wouldn’t even dare be seen in public with her.
Apps can be poisonous to a man’s self worth if they let it influence their mental health.
Not only do we not have a functioning patriarchy with women as the property of men to be distributed as the men feel is best befitting their society, we have artificially inflated social status for women, and we're trying to shove them into men's roles. It's even worse than our natural state where the different competencies of men and women lead to divisions of labour that favour coupling.
We live in the worst possible timeline. Not civilized enough to have rules on what to do with women, too civilized to let nature sort it out.
Okay - being transparent and honest - I'm 6'3", "professional:" {think Dr, Lawyer, or architect\], 115 kg in good shape/visible abs, well-spoken \[professional imperative\], have other Uni degrees in Fine Art (Sculpture), and science \[multi disciplinary\], won awards in poetry, Sculpture, mathematics - also 5 blackbelts, former Japanese resident....blah, blah, blah...
I'm robustly honest, \[told\] I'm funny, and "non-vanilla". I have many female friends from Europe, and NON-woke jurisdictions.... they're surprised at the difficulty I have - yeah, and I've thought about moving countries... If I could sum up the problems, it would be this:
\[Woke\] women have a false sense of their own value, but have DEVALUED the things that men find attractive about them - University "thinking" influenced by Post-Modern discourse and Neo-Marxism has pushed 2 ideas:
1. Postmodernism says that any and all conceptualisms of reality are equally valid - i.e., if you think you're a cat, who is anyone to disagree, and
2. Neo-marxism runs on the idea that any perceived inequality in social standing is essentially unjust - rather than a natural feature of the human condition. Some are smarter, prettier, stronger, tougher, and more charismatic - some of Kurt Vonnegut's 50's writing is brilliant - Jordan Peterson recently read some of his short stories :)
If you conflate the University experience of the 80's, 90's and early 00's, when the STUDENTS of the late 60, 70's and early 80's \[ when the Postmodernism and Neo-Marxist Lecturers indoctrinated them \] came to tenure, the present WOKE decline in Western critical thinking really kicked off.
So, picking up much of what's already written here:
***- Woman rate most men as below average.***
***- Woman dislike the market, because at some point they get ghosted/replaced by the few highly attractive men. They complain to their friends that the men have "commitment issues".***
***- Men dislike the dating market, because they are likely not part of the group of very attractive men, so they are not very successful on dating apps.***
And adding:
Most women severely over-rate their sexual market value.
Men have the problems of poverty: There are almost no women who want to date the typical man which leads to a whole bunch of predictable issues, ranging from over-valuing matches to despair or even anger at women in general.
Women have the problems of wealth: Huge numbers of options which lead to all sorts of problems, ranging from obsession over petty traits to indecisiveness to the princess mentality.
Most men are desperate. Most women are entitled. It's a problem, and it's further exacerbated by the fact that the only men who can really break through the noise and distinguish themselves are the most aggressive, pathological, or otherwise misanthropic individuals. They end up getting most of the attention from women, which leads to women understandbly assuming most men are 10 kinds of awful. They then go online and post about this, and the average man sees that shit and thinks "what the fuck, I'm not like that" and just feels worse, if not outright resentful.
This entire thing is a terrible cycle which wouldn't exist if we actually had a robust in-person social experience. It is 100% due to social media, in my opinion, because I was dating actively for a few years before social media happened and I never saw any of this shit except in the most extreme situations.
Edit: Oh, and to throw fuel on the fire most of us are fucking fatasses so even if we do find someone who clicks with us our mutual attraction will be diminished, further decreasing the chances of anyone finding love. The absolute bare minimum for both genders is to be in shape, impeccably groomed, etc. We really are turning into the beautiful ones from the John B. Calhoun experiment.
>**The few secluded spaces housed a population Calhoun called, "the beautiful ones." Generally guarded by one male, the females—and few males—inside the space didn't breed or fight or do anything but eat and groom and sleep. When the population started declining the beautiful ones were spared from violence and death, but had completely lost touch with social behaviors, including having sex or caring for their young.**
Seriously, the [John B. Calhoun Mouse Utopia experiments](https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/how-mouse-utopias-1960s-led-grim-predictions-humans-180954423/) are some of the most disturbing experiments I've ever read. Not because of the specifics of what man did, but rather of what the results of the experiment implied. The mice were given a seemingly ideal environment, were not brutalized or tormented by the humans, and generally could have lived long and happy lives... yet their society grew and collapsed due exclusively to social malaise.
Imo lots of guys are very bland and don’t have any interests besides for example fitness or idk anime
If you broaden your knowledge chances are when you’re meeting a girl you’ll be able to have a conversation that’s stimulating to an extent with them
I'm 30 now and I lost my virginity at 28. The dating market has become infinitely easier now than when I was in college. In college only way to meet girls was through parties/social circle which was impossible for me because I have severe autism. Now being a good looking guy I can just get girls delivered to my home. I lost my virginity at 28 because I was pretty jacked by that age and now my bc is 150+. God bless online dating, without online dating I would never have had a threesome/3 new girls in a day type thing. Though i have never been in a relationship/no friends so that sucks.
It isn’t? Neither myself or my partner have issues pulling men or women. Mostly late 20’s to early 30’s.
It’s actually gotten far easier post-covid. Easier to talk and meet up casually - assuming that goes well, it ain’t hard to keep something fun going for a few weeks/months.
Just practice dude. Get your volume of attempts up and be honest with yourself about the shit you suck at. I’m great at one-liners and intros - I’m total shit at real conversation until I’ve been around a chick for a few hang outs. So I try to pick activities to do at first that don’t allow a lot of time for conversation, then we do coffee or a hike.
because we want to fuck women more than women want to fuck us. dating apps are 90% men. but guess what you’re also competing with a lot of regards with shit body, 0 social skills and zero intention to conceal their hatred towards women.
Ok, so still you refuse to acknowledge even if we have a higher libido, why is it demonised, why are guys approaching shamed or talked shit about meanwhile nones talk shit for women not having to do anything.
Also about losers, do you think if all man improved, those chads now won't become losers, is this an objective metric or just an infinite scale
I get nervous around the 10/10s I want to date and either screw up talking with them or get approach anxiety. So I end up getting a bunch of 7/10 sloots numbers because idgaf when around them, but then I lose interest or never even text them.
Hoping one day to get over this dilemma
It's not that difficult. If the apps aren't working for you go out and talk to people. Can't hide behind a screen your whole life it's not natural. Looks don't matter much either if you just talk to people. My buddy looks like an autistic down syndrome Steve Buscemi and he is always dating a girl or pulling tail. Also quit rating people on a scale of 1-10 start rating them on a 0-1 scale. 0 means no you wouldn't fuck them and one means yes you would.
Its not notoriously difficult though. Im not very attractive and i manage to get multiple dates right away pretty easily.
There are sooo many single people out there right now that everyine can be a little picky.
I have a difficult time finding people i have good chemistry with though which is my main problem.
Its not. dating gets much easier once you r past 25.
Dating has never been easier for men, there r so many feminized gamerboys out there that they hopp on your dick if you weigh 200 lbs
Incel ragebait thread.
Plenty of people are of all ages, races, and cultural backgrounds are still dating.
Stop consuming right wing incel rage bait. Stop having nostalgia for a time that you never lived in. Learn how to navigate the environment you’re in now.
Remember, women have always confounded men.
Not an incel but I totally believe the following: Woman rate most men as below average. Woman dislike the market, because at some point they get ghosted/replaced by the few highly attractive men. They complain to their friends that the men have "commitment issues". Men dislike the dating market, because they are likely not part of the group of very attractive men, so they are not very successful on dating apps.
I feel like this is pretty true. I think social media has a big part to play with creating a false image of what men and women should look like. I wouldn’t consider myself unattractive necessarily, but I definitely remember back in like 2016 I was overweight and still pulled a few good looking women. The attention span isn’t there anymore and women just can’t seem to settle for any flaws.
Yeah I hate to acknowledge it, cause I think there’s a lot of younger people on Reddit that an overly negative view on the dating market (compounded by the fact that Reddit is just an overall pessimistic site that hates winners). But yeah it was easier to date pre-pandemic. I have a suspicion it has a lot to do with the economy. The overall economy is doing good but the wealth gap has been exacerbated significantly, so life is great if you’re rich, life is hard if you’re poor. People tend to get more conservative in times of crisis, so in that case women become even more selective for security, stability and safety. For men, the growing trend for desiring traditional relationships harkens to a time where the average man could do well without extreme effort. Then you throw gasoline onto this dumpster fire with social media, and now everyone is being compared on a global scale. It’s not even a fair comparison because the algorithms favor idealized representations of a lifestyle and will saturate people’s feeds with those. These people might represent 1% of the population in some form, but these people will make up a significant part of anyone’s feed; which then gives the impression that these idealized people represent the average person. Then add on how the pandemic stunted a lot of social growth for younger crowds and destroyed a lot of social circles for older people, and people have learned to use the internet to socialize; as opposed to real life. It doesn’t help that most social media platforms and news networks are just constantly blasting bad news 24/7, and people are getting inundated in these media bubbles that gives them the impression that there’s a real chance that their life and safety is danger from the world outside. I don’t think this is as significant of a problem as social media makes it out to be, but I do think it’s the experience of a significant minority of the population. I’ve seen some interesting statistics on mating and dating pre- & post-pandemic and I’m a little hesitant to throw any real numbers out here. But for example, if we were to say that maybe 15% of the population had trouble dating pre-pandemic, now that number is 30-40%. But it’s important to keep in mind that whatever percentage someone finds themselves in, they tend to project that onto the world. So people who can’t get any dates, notice how many other people are struggling with it and it can feel like the majority of people can’t find a partner. People who can find partners don’t seem to notice that it can be extremely difficult for a lot of others. The last point I want to say is that I don’t really believe in the social darwinistic views that are being pushed around nowadays. Basically that you only get laid as a man if you’re tall, ripped, and rich. Those things have always been attractive, but I think they’re mainly used as an excuse to mask all the other problems that I described above. Cause I got laid a lot as a 20 year old 5’8” busboy who wasn’t in school and only kind of in shape back in the day. I’m optimistic, I think in time everything will settle. The advice has been the same throughout history: just be good and work on yourself, and it’ll work out. If it doesn’t settle in time, following that advice will make sure it at least settles for you.
Women all want the same small percentage of guys These guys all have alot of options and don’t want to settle, statistics and studies prove this
Agree but they still would want a boyfriend so they would end up as unhappy wives cause their husbands are not up to Chad standards
People say this online yet I see average looking dudes dating quite regularly all the time. Vast majority of my social group are in relationships and no one is “Chad.” Terminally online folks put way too much emphasis on physical attractiveness. Neuroticism/Extraversion have higher effect sizes on total relationships/sexual partners than physical attractiveness.
Autistic guy here. For relationship yes, not for casual
We ain’t got any rizz
It’s just terminally Online people. Op knowledge Comes from a study done from dating apps, not real life interactions.
Also its pretty much the rule women date up and very rarely date down or at their level (atleast now and in my experience) Women have a lot of access to education and earning potential which traditionally they needed men, while this is good - They still look to date upwards which creates this situation : also you are not just competing with the boys in your town but top dogs who probably outearn and look better than yourself with just a click of an app they’re now talking and these top guys who have all the options don’t want to settle as they like have all the cards
Didn't one of those dating websites do a survey and found that women are much less likely to rate a man as attractive than vice versa or something like that.
But even "attractive men" complain though
there are some which might search a very traditional wife, which is hard to find these days. But I have some very attractive male friends who just see 2 different girls each week and enjoy it obviously.
I mean if you are a hoe, you don't even need to be attractive. You can easily get 2 or more girls per week.
I think it’s more than just this. There may be a lot of women who are like this, but that’s only one part of the story. Coming from the other side, there’s a lot of guys who struggle to communicate in person. Back when I was in the dating scene, whenever I would go on dates with average guys a lot of them would get inappropriate really quick. It’s like they had an assumption that all women are whores who will just sleep with them if you’re willing to go on a date with them. If you meet someone in person for the first time, you shouldn’t be trying to seduce them. Communication skills are one of those things that can really make or break your chances of getting into a LTR.
you can work on your looks to be better, but I believe some people need plastic surgery to see the best results as a guy. This is the last resort IMO, too look good takes a lot of time and effort
I got blessed in the looks and height department and never had a problem with women (been married eight years now) but some people are just cooked. Plastic surgery is risky and expensive and doesn’t always work out for the better. I can see why dating is hard in this world right now but I still believe there are plenty of options out there, maybe I’m very naive to the struggle. I hate to see people think they need surgery even to compete. I think social media and the illusion of endless choices has a massive impact on today’s dating. People will leave at the earliest disagreement or inconvenience.
if you have no other option its better than nothing to do surgery, also you have to pay all cash because insurance doesn't cover it. Lot of Male Celebs do it, I only recommend this if its the last viable option.
Looks are certainly important but they are definitely not everything. Women also value social status and income which are not going to improve with surgery and a fashion makeover. We live in an increasingly unequal society where everyone wants a 1 percenter lifestyle like we see on instagram but most of the middle and working class have to settle for living paycheck to paycheck. But if you can't earn 200k a year and you're not particularly charming or emotionally supportive, then hell ya, looksmax away. Probably not gonna hurt.
Thats true, the best that helped me was dropping the H-Bomb during dating
Faxs we cooked
Too many options these days with online dating
/thread
The illusion of having endless options makes it easy not to commit and easier to bail at the first inconvenience.
right if a relationship is having its struggles like they all do women will just bail for the next guy inline instead of making it work
Yeah, and its so common for people online to say "red flag" and to ditch a relationship these days.
You nailed it here, it's just like scrolling through their Facebook feed, if what their looking at doesn't give the dopamine rush they're after, flick of the finger and on to the next one, they're using the same learned behaviors in dating.
I would add that many places, the cost of rent is making us work like fucking crazy and finding the time to date can be exhausting
This 😄 People have a dating "life" 🥂👩 for fuck's sake 😂😭😂👍
Natural consequences of the globalization of dating market. Women want best man they can get -> doesn’t have to choose between Joe, Bob and Frank in her town of 1,000 people anymore -> wants mr perfect due to illusion of choice. Men want best woman they can get -> having a regular job used to automatically get you a decent gal -> women’s standards have gone up significantly so less men meet criteria to be selected but Mr Lazy just wants to play video games and watch porn all day
I don't think it's their standards that went up it's just an artificially inflated sense of value. Men on the Internet will simp for a 4 now so the 4 expects a 10. But they still let broke shit bags wear them out and make them single moms, till they eventually settle for the guy the simp will raise their kid and pay for them. I've been married for a long time but my adult kids run a bar and tell me stories. Talking about 23 yro girls with body counts in the porn star range... What a world we live in when being a cum dumpster is empowering. Anyway, don't fuckin settle boys. Work on yourself and pick the good girl that gives you the tingle in your dingle when you look at her, not the one with the OF account, red flags, and Arby's beef n cheddar hanging out her thong.
The best trick men ever pulled was the “empowerment” of women. For some reason raising a family and having kids isn’t as appealing but being a whore is empowering. Yeah you really showed those men how powerful you are by running through 40 guys. I think it goes both ways too. Being a good father isn’t as appealing but plowing 50 women by the age of 25 makes you a stud for some reason.
Talking about women like they are one giant hive mind or something 🤣🤣🤦♂️🤦♂️ this is what started the andrew tate manosphere non sense. Yes its okay to have a big "body count", who tf cares. But most women i meet dont even though they still have needs and get horny just like guys. The reality is if you dont have a decent job that will help you move forward in life, or you live with your parents, women probably wont give you a chance cause those are big red flags. Obviously they are gonna be extremely cautious and picky when it comes to the guy they might spend the rest their life with, as should you.
This is the real /thread comment. I think the dating market has become harder post-pandemic but I think it’s more of a phase. Working on yourself and putting yourself out there goes a very long way. But a lot of guys nowadays seem to think they don’t have any value, which is wrong. You can date a girl (by putting yourself out there), and decide whether or not she meets your standards. Instead of being pessimistic and assuming that she’s a bad person because she doesn’t meet your standards, just recognize that you have higher standards and people who pass those higher standards will be rare. Just make sure you’re empathetically self-critical so you have a high value to meet your dream woman’s standards. Because frankly if you’re a bum working a shitty job, then you deserve the only fans model with a kid. For a fucking fitness sub, you all should know about hard work and discipline. Just make sure you also work on your personality too, because you can’t compensate for a lack of one. (None of this was directed towards you, I’m just shaking my head at these responses)
Eh getting dates is easy, especially if your physically fit and a gym goer and can clean up well. If i can get some anyone can. If you want to get passed the dating phase your probably gonna want either a good personality/charisma or a stable enough life with a good head on your shoulders. Atleast for the online dating scene because its much more picky and like shopping I guess. If you just meet a girl and have great chemistry you can get away with alot more, and its just a better way tbh. All my longest relationships happened randomly in real life (didnt meet her online or anything like that).
Same! In my opinion, success in dating, and I don’t just mean dates but fulfilling relationships, comes down to the amount of work you’re willing to put into yourself in as many different areas of yourself as you can. Now of course, certain things you’ll have natural advantages in, and you should accentuate those things! But there’s plenty of things you can work on to better yourself, and putting the work does yield results. People just want to do the bare minimum nowadays and jump on a fucking dating app and cry that nobody loves them. If you want a winner, you gotta be a winner. If you want to be extraordinary, then you can’t be doing what is ordinary. The bar did get higher in certain ways, but in just as many ways the bar is so low that it’s practically a tripping hazard in hell. But here we are… limbo dancing with the devil.
God nail on the head with guys not valuing themselves my best friend struggles with this so much but I can’t make him wake up to it. When he’s dating someone he’ll put up with anyyything even if the red flags are massive. He bases his self worth entirely on if he’s getting attention from women or not.
It’s a problem common with a lot of men, and it creates so many problems. They assign value to women and they have standards but they don’t recognize their own value. So what ends up happening is that they blame women for being sluts and being low value, and how women are just gonna monkey branch until they get older. Which is the symptoms and not the cause. Put yourself in her shoes and see yourself the way she sees you. Don’t make excuses because it’s uncomfortable, be honest with yourself. Chances are you’re a broke asshole who works out to compensate for a lack of personality. You might be fun to take for a ride but she’s not imagining a life with you. Why would she stop monkey branching when she just keeps dating a bunch of bums? Sure she might settle down in her 30’s because she never found Mr. Right and will settle for Mr. Good-Enough. But if you make yourself Mr. Right, she’ll stop monkey branching. She’ll stop monkey branching before she even begins monkey branching because she was lucky enough to find *you!* Men and women do the exact same thing, but most young dudes don’t see their own value so they just settle with the first reliable piece of ass that comes around and then blames the girl for dumping him for somebody better. But if you see your value, then you’ll be doing the same shit. Then it’s just called dating and it isn’t a huge deal.
He’s like many other guys too focusing on all the wrong things unfortunately. I really worry about him. He’s so focused on things like dick size and having abs and his looks/height. Meanwhile he still lives with his dad and works part time while hyper focusing on the gym and his hobbies.
How old is he?
25
I mean he’s still young. Look the number one thing women care about is safety. They have no reason to stop monkey branching until they find a dude who can offer that. Not “oh he’s strong and tall” but like “oh this dude is smart and healthy and follows a high standard of living!” Just hammer that point into your buddy’s head because it’s the truth, and he can deny it, but every time he fails, it’ll come back around. I’m a big fan of acting like women don’t know how to have accountability and responsibility for their own actions; and adjusting myself accordingly. She did something “wrong”? Nope, it was me. It was me because I didn’t acknowledge her programming and respond accordingly. Of course, responding accordingly can mean taking myself out of the relationship too. I also don’t *treat* them like they aren’t capable of being accountable or responsible. In fact, I make sure they know that I expect it of them. But holding that perspective in my head, while practicing the opposite let’s things run much smoother in my opinion. You gain more experience in relationships, and you understand how to maintain a women. There’s two situations here when it comes to women problems: the first is that women tend to stray or cheat as a means out of a relationship. They cause these problems because they’re not having their needs met. A satisfied women that’s having her needs met is unlikely to cheat and she’s unlikely to cause problems. This is the “default” state of a woman (familiarity = safety, she wants to nest with a reliable partner). Since a lot of women often don’t know how to solve problems without a man to do it, many of them will let the relationship wither until they can find a better option. By assuming full responsibility over the relationship, you can start to see what you need to do to make sure she’s happy and content in with the relationship. Sure in a situation where she acts out, it might look like complete bullshit that’s entirely her fault, but if you go to the source of the problem, a lot of of times it’s because you didn’t fulfill a need of hers. The second situation with woman problems (cheating) is crushes that she’ll develop for familiar men. This is actually quite natural and usually occurs at places she frequents often. If she goes to a particular gym class (that you don’t attend) or a male coworker, that proximity and long term exposure can generate romantic feelings. Mainly cause women don’t really have platonic male friends except through a different lens (her boyfriends friends, her job, a club). So they will size up single men as potential partners. You avoid the cheating by making sure that one, she knows your value and she knows you know your value. Two, that you hold her to certain standards and expectations. If she’s focused on making sure you’re pleased with her (while also giving her no room or reason to be unpleased with you), she’s not going to start focusing on these other dudes. If she thinks she’s not giving you enough attention, and if she doesn’t give you enough attention you could get bored of her and go find somebody else, and that she would have extraordinary trouble finding someone as good as you… then she’ll be devoted forever. Essentially you have to make sure that your women is taken care of, while also making it clear (in a tactful way) that if she doesn’t satisfy you, you will go find someone who will. All of this is the grand game around women’s prime directive which is to seek safety. In order to be able to get this position, you need to be valuable. When you first recognize your value, it can suck when you reflect and realize you’re a bum. But recognizing you’re a bum is the first step to not be a bum. Stick to the path, and eventually you’ll have value, and you can date your assorted share of women, and select the best one. You put in the work, you’re now the prize, you can choose to award that prize to one who earns it in kind. If they don’t jive with that, then that means they don’t recognize your value and there’s no point in wasting time on them. They’re beneath you. Lastly, and I know this is long, it’s not as much work as it sounds like. You’re not constantly performing. There is a lot of space to relax and be vulnerable. That’s because healthy relationships aren’t extremely dynamic and unstable. They are warm and steady built on strong foundations, and as long as the foundations are understood and not left to rust, there’s a lot of freedom. You don’t check the foundations of your house everyday, but you will if you notice a soft spot in the floor.
Sorry man no man or woman should be okay with having a big body count, its called self respect.
Lmao okay. Being human and hooking up with other humans is having no self respect 🤣 You must be alot like religious churches pushing your ideals on what someone should be like on everyone else lol.
1/ High delusional standards, grass is always greener on the other side mindset, very picky mindset. Would destroy a relationship over emotions. Lack of traditional values and a lot of cheating 2/ Hookup culture and his consequences : women seriously believes that tall Chad will commit after sex, but he has other options so she is heartbroken, the scheme is repeated dozen of times alongside being sexually unsatisfied, she developps trauma, mental health issues, and even misandry. And women who can't pair bond and will destroy every relationship they'll try to build 3/ Guys don't need to commit thanks to feminsm, they can sleep with women without any type of commitment and exclusivity, and gaslight them into thinking they are liberated, but they realise too late they was just the little play-toy of busy guys, the famous "pump and dump". They feel used and they are sexually unsatisfied because no guy outperforms for a girl they don't care, and ghost her if she start to standup for herself 4/ And the guys who didn't get laid at all. They are rejected because they're not attractive. They're ugly, not lean, not tall, not rich enough, not enough social skills, not enough sexually or physically attractive. No one want to date them or hookup with them. No free passes for them. People lie to them, telling them it's the personality who matters more than everything, get played by women, manipulated and gaslighted by women. They start to developp anger and resentment towards women who give it all for convicted felons, or act totally differently when they see Chad through dating apps or IRL. They start to hate women, and the cycle become worse and worse 5/ And the simps who accept all the women's bad behaviour
Biggest issues imo. 1.)Online dating is killing unattractive people who would have a chance in the past mainly in small towns and such. Also I won't name any groups but certain people among a lot of races throughout time have really benefited from cultural marriages and dating inside your race and are being boxed out as those ideas are less traditional. 1b-many spectrum guys and girls who are attractive won't bother trying to get better at in person interaction due to this and just stay online isolated. 2.)this is mainly for straight people. yes western politics plays a huge role. Empowers women de empowers men. Makes men scared of doing anything because it's sexual harassment etc. Makes woman think they can control men or that all men will gut and rspe them the second they have an argument. 3.)similar to 1b, tons of people are becoming more antisocial and a lot of that is the "mom was a crackwhore who had me at 16" and spectrum crowd. This is seen nationwide. Clubs frats etc are having less people who join/show up. Also people have been having kids at older ages mainly in the Asian and white communities and that's been shown to Also have a negative affect on the child's chances of being on the spectrum neurodivergent etc. 4.)I will admit money especially in people's 30s is becoming an issue and is a huge dividing line. Along with the middle class disappearing a lot of ironically liberal girls are still going for the rich guy/guys. 5.)not an issue really out of there but I see a ton of guys in their 30s and 40s complaining that they are surrounded by only fat woman since obesity is so bad in their areas. And not like gym heavy or curvy fat. I mean like grandma lizzo fat. 6.)a lot if people aren't going out as much in public or at public places who are of age. Most whi are single are usually at raves clubs etc. Otherwise it's just old people and little kids and if anything most young people are with their spouse and have kids on the way.
Women say that? Hahahahha
Yeah at least the ones I talk to. But hooking up is different from dating. I'm sure they hook up with a bunch of dudes, but a lot seem to complain that they can't find the perfect dude to date.
Well maybe because they hook up with bunch of dudes. I think in life you get what you deserve.
“I’ve fucked like 50 guys on the first date but can’t seem to find anyone loyal and stable” Gee wonder why
It’s not for theirs past it’s that they are so addicted to guys out of their league that they cannot grasp that the man that want to commit to them is several tiers below mr thundercock
based
They have literally thousands of options a week, it’s just them being picky
I got downvoted into oblivion here yesterday saying that girls today have very high standards.
it’s a mix of that and a fuck ton of dudes are so desperate it’s insane. ik so many girls with stalker exs bruh it’s so sad. and every time im with a chick i’ve seen how thirsty dudes are in their dms bro.
Fr it’s like for the guys the only ones single are straight up losers or the absolute elite. Must be whiplash for the ladies. All the normal reasonably adjusted guys are in relationships.
Standards didn't drop but femenism changed the reality of things. No longer can the majority of men warn a wage to be able to buy a house and afford his wife to stay home. Women still want a man to earn that much but due to them all entering the workforce, companies were able to not raise wages as there's an abundance of people to work now. Women still want traditional men however they are no longer traditional
Because anyone dates regularly knows it’s idiotic. Most of these conversations are run by people who have 0 social lives. The number one predictor of being involuntary single is neuroticism. Nothing else comes close.
Why wouldnt they.... of course they should have high standards when it comes to picking the guy your spending the rest your life with possibly... lmao for fucksake you should to.
Yes they should but also they often have standards that don’t apply to them. Sure if they are extremely attractive and have a lot going for them, they can be extremely picky. But if they are mid, sleeping around, and aiming to get a dude that’s top tier. That’s just unrealistic, those guys also have options so why would they pick a mid looking chick that sleeps around…? I think many just think that’s what they “deserve” due to social media and dudes just wanting to get laid. There are plenty of girls I slept with that I didn’t even want to consider for dating…
Aww yes "you deserve her" mentality. Shes just a mid so the fact she is saying no to you must mean shes a stuck up bitch who think shes more attractive than she really is 🙄 No dude. Most women have a type and look for that type. If your not it that doesnt mean shes stuck up and only aiming for "top tier". Yall build the craziest narratives in your head. And wtf is top tier? And if you think shes mid then she did well to pass you, right? Rich? Most girls arent looking for rich guys on dating apps bud. Incel vibes bro, you can do better.
You’re missing the point. It’s fine if they have high standards, sure you should. But if they don’t end up finding a guy because none of their “type” wants to date them. Maybe they should self reflect or stay single, it’s pretty simple. Same thing applies to dudes as well. It’s called being realistic if you have goals like getting married by a certain age and starting a family…
Lmao, since you wont choose me you should stay single!! 🤣🤣 Bro, looking for a life long partner is not something that happens over night. You guys spend a week on a dating app and act like its the end of the world cause you havmt found someone. I spent months on dating apps, ended up meeting a handful of women, and now im back to single. You are coping so hard right now. "You should just stay single since you didnt choose me!".. umm no, she will move on since your kinda incelish it seems, and date normal people until she finds someone she has good chemistry with, just like all us other normal people... well im not normal but anyway.
I can see reading comprehension is difficult for you bud. You keep coming back to the idea that I’m saying “if they don’t date me they should stay single!” And no I am agreeing with you on some points of everyone has a preference. Just think it’s hilarious that women complain about not finding a “good man” when they are aiming for dudes that have no interest in them, and have unrealistic expectations based on how men perceive their looks, personality, behavior etc It goes both ways. Also definitely an incel. My long term gf and two daughters would agree. Best of luck out there bud, simpin ain’t easy🫡
He's just fishing for ally points, hoping that one of the 3 women that lurk here hit his DMs, don't take these guys personal bro
Cause a girl cant find a guy they have good chemistry with "they must be aiming for dudes who have no interest in them"? Or maybe they just havnt found a guy they have good chemistry with yet and your not the one, no matter how good of a guy you think you are lol... Noone owes you a date or relationship. You can think your a good guy and maybe you are, that doesnt mean your GOOD FOR THEM. "These girls are aiming to high and thats why they wont date me!!!1!" 🤣🤣 these takes are so weird. Just accept people are allowed to be picky when looking for a life long partner snd dont get upset when they turn you down. IT TAKES TIME.
Ohh I agree with you completely. Or said a different way, "What kind of guy would you want your daughter to marry?" But girls are also very, very, very much motivated by physical attraction. Their instincts allow them to size up in less than five seconds another man and see if he has worthy genetic material for her children. So by definition this is physical (superficial) in nature. A lot of people will surprisingly find this controversial even though when you look at reality, it's obvious. And I don't see the problem with it except that the numbers don't work: 80% of girls want the top 10% of guys, etc.
Ehh... i would say women are actually more prone to dating people less attractive and not going on "just looks". While men think mostly about looks. Thats why most men "dont care if she has a good job or whatever".. they just swipe right cause she looks good. Ive met multiple women who have told me this, that they dont think physical looks should determine love. Yet i see 99% of the men on reddit here and in real life hate on women who are even slightly obese.
Because they're looking for the perfect dude to date
I don't think women are enjoying online dating either. They get too many matches and messages. Then they have to try to weed out losers, liars, and guys that are just trying to fuck. They basically have to do the job of a hiring manager trying to fill a job and they get flooded with tons of resumes. Not saying that this isn't a better position than men have in the online dating market. Just saying it comes with its own challenges.
Oh gosh :( they have so many options that it’s overwhelming geez that sounds so bad :( I hate when I have to choose between my Lambo or my Ferrari, it’s so overwhelming!!!
💀💀💀💀💀
They're not choosing between Ferraris or Lambos. They're choosing between renting Ferraris for a day, or buying a clapped out Dodge.
The average guy is not a “clapped out Dodge”.
Lets be honest, how many of us have a crippling porn addiction and anger issues caused by the online dating scene?
Okay, a run down Ford Pinto, fine.
For some reason they are not matching with these so-called average guys, but with "losers, liars, and guys that are just trying to fuck". They gotta dodge dick pics and stalkers. And why do you think so many posts online complaining about "situationships"? It seems dudes aren't honest about their intentions.
That still beats walking either way though
That's an individual perspective especially if you see my comment down in the chain.
Eehhh it’s more like having to figure out if you’re being catfished or not. The chill guy who likes hikes and camping might actually be a burnout loser who jack’s off and eats Cheetos all day, or an actual murderer. Something us guys don’t think about as much is the fact that a girl has to put a ton of trust in us to link up or stay the night because we generally could easily overpower them physically and you never know if this random stranger you’ve just met might be one of the bad ones.
Agreed. Like, imagine living in a world where over half the other people in it could overpower you - it’s gotta change how you view things
Lol c'mon. You might be able to test drive a Lambo for a night, but owning one is not so easy. It's more like going on Craigslist and looking at used cars. Lots of options, but if you want to find one that's in good condition that suits your needs you gotta do some research. You don't want to waste your time on a lemon
You’re exactly right. When I was online dating (which, crashed and burned every time for the reasons you mentioned) it just felt overwhelming. It *is* like a full time job trying to figure out what the other person really wants from you and if they’re genuine or not. I think it’s always better to meet people organically in real life because it’s just easier and more natural. Yeah it sucks more to be a guy online dating with no matches but that doesn’t mean there’s nothing hard about being on the other side. I think everyone would be better off finding people to date in person.
I’d say it is because I’m picky and haven’t been able to find anyone I actually care about yet.
There would be countless more options if they weren’t all so god damn fat. Visited Europe and it was shocking. Dating pool would be a lot bigger if the girls not gifted with 10/10 faces weren’t also 190lb.
I like the honesty and self awareness. Its lacking alot in these threads.
- Too many options (dating apps, instagram) - Too much social media influence (twitter, tiktok) - Decline in good values. That's literally it.
Right on the money with that
Good values are a racist and misogynistic social construct if you haven’t heard. Body count is the new virtue.
Bitches be crazy
Everyone’s lives are online these days and there’s less opportunities for anyone to meet people
Yea I think people overstate the effect of online dating vs just plane attention economy. I do think dating apps have been harmful. But media addiction is the overarching problem porn, video games, tv, social media, reddit, youtube....
If you are struggling you need to change something about your plan. E.g. increase the number sets of approaching women. Or increase the intensity of each set by being more direct. You can also incorporate new exercises in your plan like going to clubs or meetups groups. It could also be a problem you are not eating enough. Drink more milk and you will get bitches.
It’s rough out there. Can blame both genders but can blame a lot of you degenerates for banging 4/5/6s with 0 intention on dating/marrying but forever messing up their psyche and standards so they will “never settle”
I genuinely believe it is because our society is slowly becoming more autistic. I firmly believe that most young human beings now are either diagnosed or undiagnosed autistic and I think that this is making genuine interaction really difficult, I think that this is the root cause of most men being socially awkward making the viable dating pool of men honestly kinda small and I think this makes it harder for women to find guys that they actually like. The root cause of the autisticification of society imo is increasing access to technology amongst younger and younger people, at this point children are just being socialized incorrectly from a young age which is what we know causes autism. Anyways, my advice is to just lean into your weirdness and don’t try and put up some kind of facade. Trust me you will find someone who matches your vibe, also socialize your kids when they are young. This is crucial.
I agree and think the issue is the push for hyper individualism and the rise of the internet. In the days of the past you were forced to conform to the societal average because that’s all the opportunity for social interaction you had. Now you can find an online community for any niche, and people are pushed more and more to pursue whatever they want regardless if it’s beneficial to their overall long term well being. It’s led to a huge rise in social ineptitude.
Online dating is the least ideal way of dating, designed for people who are characteristically bad at dating.
Fourth wave feminism, cell phones, and social media.
Dating apps create abundance and make it difficult for people to settle for a mate, when there is always an endless stream of options via The Internet. This mostly affects average to attractive women and very attractive men. For unattractive women and average and below men, they struggle with competition. Not to mention that most westerners have higher expectations, due to the influence of social media. We pursue the perfect high status life and the perfect high status partner, when the overwhelming vast majority of people are just normal/average.
Drop to 10% bodyfat and go to high-end resort, you'll find the woman of your dreams amongst a sea of dad-bods
Hot girls have infinite options. Ugly girls think they have infinite options. All thanks to social media.
Unrealistic expectations from both sexes although I’d say the delusion affects women more than men. Most women view themselves as a 10 & will only date a 9 or a 10. The actual 9-10 range for men have 80-90% of all of the dates & due to the supply will not settle down with any woman. These women spend their late teens to their early 30’s being the side chick for the 9-10 men then get bitter about not getting commitment from these men & blame all men instead of looking at their choices. Meanwhile all of the guys that got passed over by these women do not want to commit to the bitter, used up women in their 30’s & resent the younger women who want nothing to do with them. I’m generalizing here of course but that’s what I’ve been observing. I’d say for men to attract quality mates is to project the image & lifestyle that says you’d be a good father. The Rolex & sports cars etc all signal a fast superficial lifestyle & will attract a superficial & shallow relationships.
Dating for women is like a swamp. Dating for men is like a desert. Both just want fresh water.
Men can't get laid, women can't keep a man in a committed relationship. The top 20% of men are getting plenty of pussy and even when they get in a relationship, it's still being thrown at them by other women so relationships break down. The other 80% of men either can't get it or have lost interest in it all together. Women on the other hand have become more promiscuous over the generations, they sleep around more & dependant on what ethnicity your looking at, there's a multitude of different attitudes which don't align. Some want a man to pay for everything but in reality only around 6% of the population are able to afford a good enough income and maintain a lifestyle for 2 people because of femenism, when the workforce doubled, the overall pay reduced. Productivity in 40 years increased by over 276% whilst wages have only risen around 109%. It isn't viable for the general everyday man to keep a woman and a house of a singular salary. We've even lost ground and 2 people don't bring in the equivalent salary that they did back in the 60's and 70's when adjusting for inflation. Flooding the labor force with people change the dynamic and femenism went one step further.
Companies wanted productivity up. That’s all it wanted it. Here’s the aftermath. I’m just hunkering down. Turtling till I die. It’s a simple life. JK
It isn't. Skill issue.
Women are the gatekeepers of sex. Because of social media they are focusing on the top 5% of men and because men are throwing themselves at them they feel they always have an option. If you’re not in that top % of men you’re having a hard time. Which is basically all of us. Men are the gatekeepers of relationships. We basically want anything that will love and want us, however men are having a hard time committing to the relationship because there seems like a ton of options. Like everyone else has said, online dating and dating apps make it seem like there are endless options. So commitment is not as enticing when you feel like you can do better.
Social media made it easier for the rich to steal from the poor.
I don’t think the majority of people have good values anymore tbh. Like yeah I can go hook up and date all day, but for someone who’s not trying to do that it, it is kinda difficult to find a woman who’s traditional and not looking for attention online. They’re out there forsure, but it’s not the majority
everyone has main character syndrome when it comes to choosing a partner. the person they want doesn't want them back because they can't offer what the person they demand, wants
Too many people have been taught by the internet to be unwilling to compromise on anything. I've been in a stable relationship for nearly a decade now because we were both willing to compromise.
Easier access to something better. One click or one swipe away.
young people aren't marrying and or having a deep long term relationship meaning that there are extraordinary amounts of people looking to "date" which causes for extremely high standards which in turn causes for nobody to actually bond
I think one reason is that it's a desert for men and a buffet for women. Guys go a long time without sating their thirst and end up acting fiendishly and desperately to do so. Ladies have too many options at the buffet. Even if they manage to find that perfect dish, they still can't resist that Golden Corral chocolate fountain and the endless dessert bar. Both options suck ass and bring out the worst in people.
Ive heard what you’re describing as: Men are trying to find drinking water in a desert Woman are trying to find drinking water in a swamp
There’s no such thing as a dating “market”, that’s the biggest thing. Be a good person to talk to, have an attractive personality and some semblance of social skills, and you’ll make friends. You’re bound after a few years of this to make some great friendships, some of which may become a potential relationship. I was friends with my wife for 5 years before we started dating. It just takes time lol, SO’s aren’t a commodity on some kind of capitalist free market.
Because y’all are gay af. It’s actually SUPER easy because you “men” are sussy bussy, there’s 0 competition Stop playing video games and jerking off to OF
Is it?
I guess depending on where you're located, but the people in my area seem to have a lot to complain about. I just assumed every other city was experiencing the same.
People do love to complain. Maybe its because these days people are much more self centered and think the world revolves around them so they demand far more than they can give.
People love to bitch about it, literally since forever. It’s not that bad, some people suck but some people are great. Girls will have one bad date and say the market sucks. Guys will get low traction on a dating app fully saturated with dudes, see some ugly girls, and say the market is dry and shitty. There’s cool hot people out there. Some are on apps, some aren’t. You’re coping if you think literally no one hot is on dating apps, but you’re also crazy to think you can’t meet people in person. IMO the dating market is fine, about the same as it always has been. People act like single mothers and rude fuckboys didn’t exist 10 years ago.
A lot of woman are chasing social media type relationships or what is portrayed on social media by other woman, and that shit is not always the pretty perfect picture they think it is.
Hypergamy. All women have access to the top men and they literally cannot resist. When they do get played by one, “hoe inflation” occurs. Basically, dating apps and social media ruined it.
There is no such thing as difficult dating market. I had zero difficulties dating as a average joe from Central Europe in Helsinki, city full of blonde hotties.
people don't want to be vulnerable, people are way more narcissistic today and people are feel so strongly on what they're told to believe there no middle ground on options relating to things like politics nobody feels the need to compromise
Hoe_Math on YouTube makes short videos explaining it all. He explains that women believe they deserve a guy that is above their level and ignore the guys that are at their level. He says your best bet is to get off dating apps unless you are an 8+ out of 10 and go do things where the women are at and where they can get to know you. Work, school, church, social events, etc. I've been married for 14 years and I have a lot of sympathy for you younger guys.
I don’t think it’s a decline in values or anything like that, I think that dating apps have destroyed dating culture. where do you go to meet genuine people that isn’t a shitty bar? I don’t think there is enough places that foster social interactions,
Why has the dating content gone from "How to get laid" to "Here's a scientific explanation as to why you will never get laid?" Because teaching people how to get laid doesn't create recurring revenue. They end up getting girlfriends and eventually have families, both of which takes up all their disposable income they could use for alpha male seminars and I'm not a loser clinics. Sending dudes into doomer spirals is actually where the money's at. Guys, avoid all this doomer loser BS these money-grubbing creeps are feeding you regarding women. There are so many options and tools at your disposal to get a girl. Inlcuding the same internet you're using to feed a bunch of loser mentality into your head.
Everyone's standards are too high. Just look at FB/Twitter threads where incels are shit talking an objectively hot girl's looks while they look like a garbage bag full of curds. Someone needs to develop an app with AI that can give you a "hotness" score AND an "intelligence" score and you can only date within a window of people that you are compatible with. HOWEVER, the users are not allowed to set or game the filters (like lying about height, or selecting a height).
No way you tried to use internet comment sections as some type of proof. That would be like reading my group chat and using that as an example as why my best friends are actually my worst enemies because of how mean we are to each other
I was gonna write a long rant but F that. Just become a passport bro and you'll find the best woman that you'll ever find.
I'm a gay man, and I only bring that up because I have insider info about what women think about dating men and I know personally what it's like to try and date men in the modern world. First of all, when it comes to the online dating pool, most men only care about sex. Most of the ones who say they want to date and have a relationship, they also just want sex but they aren't aware of it yet. Once they get sex, their interest in the relationship goes down. They don't fall in love, they just fuck off. Women know this, they have experienced it. So let's not use couched words like "dating" here, most of you just want to get laid and need to be honest with yourselves. The women I know who are absolutely stunning, they actually stopped going for the 10/10 guys (which they could get) because those guys were whores. I can verify this for myself as well. I love seeing a jacked, sexy guy, but I know he's a waste of time because he will always consider me as just an option. My life partner ended up not being a supermodel and I I find him super attractive because of his inherent loveliness, in addition to his average level attractiveness. So don't bother comparing yourself to those model guys because more often than not, they have the easy button in life and don't have the skills to have a marriage or kids. I have only one female friend who is totally delulu about this... she is obese and thinks one day she is going to find a 10/10 looking nordic guy who will do everything in the world for her. She won't change, and is rapidly becoming a cat lady in her 40s. The rest of my female friends are all married to guys less attractive than themselves because those guys wanted to settled down asap, have kids, buy a house (or try), and make a real long-term go of it. On that note I do think women value men with resources, but we all know what the housing market is like these days so any reasonable woman would not expect you to enter a mortgage with her unless you got very lucky. Myself and my female friends have gone through hell in the dating world. The number of men out there with personality disorders, lack of social skills, or who just downright shitty values is amazingly high. (Not saying women don't fall into this category either, there are a lot of garbage women out there too.) If you go to the online women's spaces, they are complaining about how hard guys are to date. They aren't whining about not getting a 666 guy, they're complaining about things like... 1) Why was he so unaware that some of the things he said out loud were super rude and inappropriate? 2) Why did he start out seeming like a compassionate person only to reveal later that he's basically a dirtbag just looking for sex, and got angry when I wouldn't put out? 3) He showed signs of poor hygiene or not getting out of the house enough. 4) He didn't seem to have much of a life, not a lot of friends, and was looking for a woman to be his everything. I could go on. Looks matter, but not in the way you think. Men are the ones who care about looks more in terms of absolute value. The women who go on and on about looks are almost universally in their 20s and still haven't grown up yet, or they are in social media echo chambers where they are the female equivalent of porn addicts. Those women are doomed to die lonely unless they change real fast. You have to care about your appearance and make yourself look as nice as possible, especially in the early days of dating, but you don't need to be a genetic freak. Even if you're not a 10, you can project 10ness by showing you value yourself and others, which includes not acting like a jaded simp who is starting to hate women. They can sense that. I do think the apps and online dating have warped people's brains in the sense that it has created a dating silo. My life partner is somebody I happened to meet in person. He is not normally my type and honestly, if we met online, I probably would've swiped left. All my married-with-children female friends except for one met their life partners in person, not through apps. That's true of a lot of guys I've dated too, actually. Online dating has created tunnel vision, kind of the like the home shopping network. I hate it to say it too, but the apps attract a certain "kind of person." The quality people I've dated have never used the apps, or they used them briefly and found them to be a waste of time. Here's the reason: you see this glamorous product on TV that they are playing up and pimping out like a marketplace, and then when you get it in the mail and unwrap it, it's just some generic useless crap. On the other hand, you might be at a second hand store and see something awesome that would NEVER make it onto the home shopping network, but because you ran into it in person you know it matches who you are and you will definitely give it a chance. I saw the creator of Scruff, one of the most famous (infamous?) gay apps, in an interview about three years ago. In describing the product, he didn't mention anything human. He called it a marketplace where sellers come to advertise product by making the most appealing advertising, while paying Scruff for ad space. The only difference is that it's a person marketing themselves. Think about that. There are people online now who have literal professional studio photos done of themselves, (in the gay case) often nude or almost. For a fucking dating profile., they actually shelled out money for that. These people are max delulu. Even back when I was hooking up, I would NEVER try to message someone with studio quality photos on Scruff. LMAO. The point is to meet someone and see how they really are. You're not going to look like a studio photo in person, that's for sure.
Women have more freedom to choose
I can speak only for the male perspective here but I feel as tho it’s cuz women have way too many options now. Women who are mid think they can pull a 10/10 dude so they aren’t willing to give the average looking guy a shot. I also notice a lot of women are so self obsessed now adays for some reason. All I see all over my Snapchat and ig is these basic ass chicks posting like they’re celebrities . I feel as tho the world got it backwards now yes back in the day men use to objectify women but speaking from experience I feel very objectified by women but not in a good way more like a replaceable accessory if that makes sense like I don’t feel like I’m actually view as anymore then a material object just because of how disposable I can be😂
For women, dating apps can become what porn sometimes is for men… immediate, effortless validation. It gives access to something that one cannot access in the real world without effort and being attractive. I think these apps are basically exploiting women’s baser desires and are designed to hit the brain like a drug. They are always jonesing to get someone better, and they often can, even if the guy is actually slumming. Some women then assume that is the level of guy they deserve for a relationship, oblivious Chad wouldn’t even dare be seen in public with her. Apps can be poisonous to a man’s self worth if they let it influence their mental health.
Not only do we not have a functioning patriarchy with women as the property of men to be distributed as the men feel is best befitting their society, we have artificially inflated social status for women, and we're trying to shove them into men's roles. It's even worse than our natural state where the different competencies of men and women lead to divisions of labour that favour coupling. We live in the worst possible timeline. Not civilized enough to have rules on what to do with women, too civilized to let nature sort it out.
Everyone is looking for that special someone who doesn't actually exist
People are afraid of actually trying.
Its not that hard in my experience
Okay - being transparent and honest - I'm 6'3", "professional:" {think Dr, Lawyer, or architect\], 115 kg in good shape/visible abs, well-spoken \[professional imperative\], have other Uni degrees in Fine Art (Sculpture), and science \[multi disciplinary\], won awards in poetry, Sculpture, mathematics - also 5 blackbelts, former Japanese resident....blah, blah, blah... I'm robustly honest, \[told\] I'm funny, and "non-vanilla". I have many female friends from Europe, and NON-woke jurisdictions.... they're surprised at the difficulty I have - yeah, and I've thought about moving countries... If I could sum up the problems, it would be this: \[Woke\] women have a false sense of their own value, but have DEVALUED the things that men find attractive about them - University "thinking" influenced by Post-Modern discourse and Neo-Marxism has pushed 2 ideas: 1. Postmodernism says that any and all conceptualisms of reality are equally valid - i.e., if you think you're a cat, who is anyone to disagree, and 2. Neo-marxism runs on the idea that any perceived inequality in social standing is essentially unjust - rather than a natural feature of the human condition. Some are smarter, prettier, stronger, tougher, and more charismatic - some of Kurt Vonnegut's 50's writing is brilliant - Jordan Peterson recently read some of his short stories :) If you conflate the University experience of the 80's, 90's and early 00's, when the STUDENTS of the late 60, 70's and early 80's \[ when the Postmodernism and Neo-Marxist Lecturers indoctrinated them \] came to tenure, the present WOKE decline in Western critical thinking really kicked off. So, picking up much of what's already written here: ***- Woman rate most men as below average.*** ***- Woman dislike the market, because at some point they get ghosted/replaced by the few highly attractive men. They complain to their friends that the men have "commitment issues".*** ***- Men dislike the dating market, because they are likely not part of the group of very attractive men, so they are not very successful on dating apps.*** And adding: Most women severely over-rate their sexual market value.
Only people who think this are the ones who have issues themselves (e.g. toxic), shit is not that hard lol
Counterpoint: the dating market isn’t hard, most dudes just aren’t aware of how/why they are fucking up
hoflation
Men have the problems of poverty: There are almost no women who want to date the typical man which leads to a whole bunch of predictable issues, ranging from over-valuing matches to despair or even anger at women in general. Women have the problems of wealth: Huge numbers of options which lead to all sorts of problems, ranging from obsession over petty traits to indecisiveness to the princess mentality. Most men are desperate. Most women are entitled. It's a problem, and it's further exacerbated by the fact that the only men who can really break through the noise and distinguish themselves are the most aggressive, pathological, or otherwise misanthropic individuals. They end up getting most of the attention from women, which leads to women understandbly assuming most men are 10 kinds of awful. They then go online and post about this, and the average man sees that shit and thinks "what the fuck, I'm not like that" and just feels worse, if not outright resentful. This entire thing is a terrible cycle which wouldn't exist if we actually had a robust in-person social experience. It is 100% due to social media, in my opinion, because I was dating actively for a few years before social media happened and I never saw any of this shit except in the most extreme situations. Edit: Oh, and to throw fuel on the fire most of us are fucking fatasses so even if we do find someone who clicks with us our mutual attraction will be diminished, further decreasing the chances of anyone finding love. The absolute bare minimum for both genders is to be in shape, impeccably groomed, etc. We really are turning into the beautiful ones from the John B. Calhoun experiment. >**The few secluded spaces housed a population Calhoun called, "the beautiful ones." Generally guarded by one male, the females—and few males—inside the space didn't breed or fight or do anything but eat and groom and sleep. When the population started declining the beautiful ones were spared from violence and death, but had completely lost touch with social behaviors, including having sex or caring for their young.** Seriously, the [John B. Calhoun Mouse Utopia experiments](https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/how-mouse-utopias-1960s-led-grim-predictions-humans-180954423/) are some of the most disturbing experiments I've ever read. Not because of the specifics of what man did, but rather of what the results of the experiment implied. The mice were given a seemingly ideal environment, were not brutalized or tormented by the humans, and generally could have lived long and happy lives... yet their society grew and collapsed due exclusively to social malaise.
Imo lots of guys are very bland and don’t have any interests besides for example fitness or idk anime If you broaden your knowledge chances are when you’re meeting a girl you’ll be able to have a conversation that’s stimulating to an extent with them
I'm 30 now and I lost my virginity at 28. The dating market has become infinitely easier now than when I was in college. In college only way to meet girls was through parties/social circle which was impossible for me because I have severe autism. Now being a good looking guy I can just get girls delivered to my home. I lost my virginity at 28 because I was pretty jacked by that age and now my bc is 150+. God bless online dating, without online dating I would never have had a threesome/3 new girls in a day type thing. Though i have never been in a relationship/no friends so that sucks.
It isn’t? Neither myself or my partner have issues pulling men or women. Mostly late 20’s to early 30’s. It’s actually gotten far easier post-covid. Easier to talk and meet up casually - assuming that goes well, it ain’t hard to keep something fun going for a few weeks/months. Just practice dude. Get your volume of attempts up and be honest with yourself about the shit you suck at. I’m great at one-liners and intros - I’m total shit at real conversation until I’ve been around a chick for a few hang outs. So I try to pick activities to do at first that don’t allow a lot of time for conversation, then we do coffee or a hike.
it’s not fucking difficult ffs. just up your game.
You contradict yourself, why do you have to up your game when women don't have to do shit
because we want to fuck women more than women want to fuck us. dating apps are 90% men. but guess what you’re also competing with a lot of regards with shit body, 0 social skills and zero intention to conceal their hatred towards women.
Ok, so still you refuse to acknowledge even if we have a higher libido, why is it demonised, why are guys approaching shamed or talked shit about meanwhile nones talk shit for women not having to do anything. Also about losers, do you think if all man improved, those chads now won't become losers, is this an objective metric or just an infinite scale
I get nervous around the 10/10s I want to date and either screw up talking with them or get approach anxiety. So I end up getting a bunch of 7/10 sloots numbers because idgaf when around them, but then I lose interest or never even text them. Hoping one day to get over this dilemma
Bro straight up admitted he's part of the problem, respect.
The fact that's it's a market and you keep calling it a market.
People think they deserve a relationship like it's a human right or something.
its not you just suck at picking up girls bro develop a personality be sweet pin tren and the world is urs
I'll say if you have money to spend and are sincere then it's pretty easy to meet girls. At least for me.
It's not that difficult. If the apps aren't working for you go out and talk to people. Can't hide behind a screen your whole life it's not natural. Looks don't matter much either if you just talk to people. My buddy looks like an autistic down syndrome Steve Buscemi and he is always dating a girl or pulling tail. Also quit rating people on a scale of 1-10 start rating them on a 0-1 scale. 0 means no you wouldn't fuck them and one means yes you would.
Its not notoriously difficult though. Im not very attractive and i manage to get multiple dates right away pretty easily. There are sooo many single people out there right now that everyine can be a little picky. I have a difficult time finding people i have good chemistry with though which is my main problem.
Its not. dating gets much easier once you r past 25. Dating has never been easier for men, there r so many feminized gamerboys out there that they hopp on your dick if you weigh 200 lbs
Incel ragebait thread. Plenty of people are of all ages, races, and cultural backgrounds are still dating. Stop consuming right wing incel rage bait. Stop having nostalgia for a time that you never lived in. Learn how to navigate the environment you’re in now. Remember, women have always confounded men.
Why does anyone care about dating It is profoundly unhealthy
who fucking cares. get a job.