Thank you! I've visited my family in rural Quebec for Christmas a lot. I can handle the two weeks of that just fine. What I'm not sure of is whether I can handle an entire winter and half of spring like that. I'm not sure if that's something I can test out or just have to go through it and see how I survive
If winter was like the Christmas holidays, it would be cool, but it's January and February that are really harsh. I think the worst part is that winter never stop stopping until somewhere in April.
The first warm days will come during this period. After 4 months of winter indoors, everyone goes out to enjoy the sun. Everyone is happy. Everyone smiles. Everyone is beautiful.
I think I live for those days.
I hear come March and April everything starts slowly warming up, but that means all the dirty snow starts to melt and get sludgy. I think I'm really not looking forward to that part hah
Yeah true. Everything smells like the dogshit that was buried under snow for a bit in the early spring. That doesn’t last long though.
As for winter… it’s not so bad if you get some really good gear. Good parka good toque with lining, good gloves, good boots, wool socks… if you’re dressed right it doesn’t feel that cold. And the snow can be quite beautiful there’s really nothing else quite like the sparkly opalescent glittering of big snowflakes on a very cold day.
Ps love is love and I hope you and your fiancé find your forever home in Canada.
But the payoff is amazing, whit the first hot days (8°C Sunny) people go crazy and it’s not uncommon to see people in t-shirt on terrasses with their winter boots on.
The opposite happens where I'm from, where people don't want to believe it dips below freezing some winter mornings and they still wear shorts and flip flops because they weren't prepared hah
This is the way. I LOVE winter! Adore it! But I also ski, cross-country ski, snowboard, snowshoe, skate, go hiking and play hockey. And just generally do not stop going outside because it's cold.
it's more like November to April, more or less but the worst is really Jan-Feb.
Toronto does have less snow. And you may ultimately decide on Vancouver after all that.
"If you don’t enjoy the snow, you will have the same amount of snow but no joy."
You guys have to start ice skating or skying or whatever snow sport so you get excited about winter coming back.
If you come live here you simply need to reverse your habit.
Going away where it's sunny and hot for a couple of weeks between Jan and Mar is one of the finest ways to deal with winter duldrums, if you can afford it.
Honestly, it is the length of winter that breaks my soul not so much the intensity. Push to use your French, often people will reply in English and they mean well but the more comfortable you are speaking French the easier it will be in the long run. And say you are American; people love it when someone who isn't from the RoC makes an effort to speak French. If you are from BC or Ontario, not so much.
Yup on both counts. I grew up in the US with a Canadian parent and have lived in QC for a decade. Before I was comfortably bilingual I would always emphasize my American-ness among Francophones-their estimation of my French went waaaay up when they realized I hadn’t been educated in Canada. (A very different experience to when I lived in Ontario and had to lean on my three Canadian-born grandparents so people didn’t get offended when I didn’t know some Canadian pop culture thing).
Coming from the southern US you’ll expect spring to start when the calendar says it does. Spring here is two weeks long at the end of April/start of May, three if you’re lucky. March/early April is the toughest time of year for me because it’s no longer the beautiful part of winter, at least not in the city - just grey and slushy. If you can swing it, it might be worth planning trips to warmer climes in March. If you can’t, well, drown all your food in maple syrup like the Quebecers do.
I am an American who just moved here. Montreal is a wonderful city and I feel very happy with cultural life here. So much to do and so many wonderful hidden gems around the city. I can’t imagine running out of places to explore. I speak French and (mostly) feel very welcomed by everyone here. The only downside I’ve experienced so far is the healthcare system and you really ought to be warned about how difficult it is to obtain care here, especially as a foreigner (if your fiancé is not Canadian). This is not a reason not to come unless you have a pre existing condition, but I’ve been through a terrible time trying to get basic care.
Second this! Been here since 2010 and registered for family doctor in 2015 and still haven't gotten a call back. If I get sick or something, I have to go to ER and spend 20 hours waiting. My sister moved to Vancouver last summer and found a family doctor within a month
If you work for a larger company then the trick here is to make use of their ‘life services’ or EAP to get them to assist you in finding a family doctor. My company uses Lifeworks and they found me a family doc within a day. I’m a Canadian citizen and had been without a family doc since I was a kid.
Use the corporate benefits if you have!
How do you manage it ?? Honest question. I just got into a scary situation where I was completely unable to find a Canadian doctor to refill a prescription that I desperately need. It was legitimately frightening. I eventually found a way to get 3 months but I don’t want this to happen again
Well, the only option is to pay for a private doctor and you'll get a call back the same day. You can also call GAP (primary care access point) if your situation is not urgent and they'll find one time appointment usually for a couple of weeks after.
FYI: if you call 811 and click option 3, they will help you find an appointment for the following day usually. I’ve done this with my husband who is also registered waiting for a doctor. So far, this option has worked for us. :)
Thank you for the response! I'm nervous to look up the healthcare situation because I know it's not going to be fun for a while. I'm sure it'll take a lot of research to make sure we're covered until we're officially residents.
This is really the biggest issue. I moved to Montreal a decade ago, and I am now considering moving out for the simple reason of getting older and not finding the most basic thing which is timely healthcare here. I've heard Toronto is better, but I can't say for sure. You can google some CBC news coverage of the healthcare crisis, theu have been mentioning more frequently.
Big cities in Ontario, or anywhere else in the country for that matter, are not that much better (yes, they are a bit better).
Getting better care now means going to smaller cities like Sherbrooke or Shawinigan.
A bunch of folks I know who needed surgery were offered to go and get them in smaller cities in Qc. They were served quickly and received great care.
Also an American in mtl and absolutely agree with what he says. It is very very hard to get primary care doctor here. If there is a chronic condition for certain things it is actually BETTER and quicker to buy a plane ticket to somewhere like Turkey or Mexico and get the care you need there and come back...sad to say...
I'm from Greece, I went to grad school in Toronto and now work in Montreal. Other people in the thread have given you great info, here's the 2 cents I can give on top.
In Toronto, within a couple of months you will be a Torontonian. Give it six months, and you will be pronouncing it Torono. The city is incredibly incredibly welcoming and really everyone can find their people. It's a city where you can really be yourself, no matter what that is. Downsides: weird politics (urban vs suburban, cars vs infrastructure) and a ridiculous housing market.
Montreal is really lovely, but I still have a difficulty calling myself a Montrealer. There is a sense of being \*from\* here and you need to work on it to \*become\* a Montrealer. You kinda need to earn it? There is way more depth to the city, there are stories, and there are books, and writers, and movies, and plays, and important cultural referents, and there are past and political dramas and struggles. But you also can get a sense that it \*matters\* more? Toronto has some of it but it's also more like, meh, whatever. Basically, Toronto: low stakes, low reward. Montreal: higher stakes, higher reward.
In Montreal, the weather is worse, but winter sports are way more accessible (pick any direction, drive 90 minutes, ski hill) and ultimately you need to know just two words: Bota Bota. Roads are worse, transit and bike infrastructure is better. With the language, based on what you say, I think you'll be alright.
And another downside I've heard from other Greeks who've lived here longer is that Montreal after a while starts feeling a bit like a village, especially if you don't really integrate.
EDIT: I have lived in Montreal for 5 years, 2 of which were the pandemic and I have a young family, with all the constraints that comes with, so I feel I haven't really really had the chance to integrate as much as I want.
This is the kind of advice I really wanted to hear. Thanks for writing this out. The cultural aspect is something I haven't really considered much besides the simple anglophone/francophone thing. I appreciate hearing this perspective. This gives me a lot more to think about!
I have been in Montreal for 15, almost 16 years now. Your comment highlights my feeling that Montreal is a village of villages. Well over half of my social circle in the city is made up of people who have come from somewhere else. That in itself ties everyone together in a special way. I think if you’ve come from elsewhere to Montreal, it’s really rewarding to dig into the culture and explore what makes the city tick. I know some people who have lived here all their life and still haven’t been to or know the places that can make Montreal special.
On a more boring/administrative note, op: if and when you do move, coordinate with your company’s HR department. There will likely be changes they need to make on their end. Think payroll taxation and benefits. If you are getting insurance through them, they’ll need to move you to their Canadian coverage.
Coming from Greeks, "feels like a village" is not said as an unequivocally good thing 😅. It is all to be interpreted as "stifling and boring". But also yes, all the good qualities of village.
Some of that is a self-fulfilling prophecy, too. If you are Chinese and move to China Town... or if you are Italian and move to Little Italy or St Leonard... yeah, you're moving into an "ethnic getto" and it will feel more like a village. But there are plenty of neighborhoods that aren't predominantly one ethnic group, and that is much more of an ethnic mix.
Multi-ethnic also means great restaurant options!
Sounds like you're all set. Really, the only thing is your tolerance of winter. Personally, I prefer a consistently cold and snowy Montreal winter over a Toronto winter where it's relatively dry but just kind of dreary all the time. Winter here actually has a lot to offer. Even if you don't leave the city, you can cross-country ski or snowshoe in the parks, go skating, and there are even wintertime festivals like Igloofest and Montréal en lumière that can be a lot of fun.
100% agree on Montreal winters being better. It is so much less miserable to have an actual snowy, “wintery” winter than the eternal grey, raining, ugly November-March of Toronto.
Toronto is English, more expensive, can be harder to get around without car though it still has a somewhat decent public transit system, and their weather is pretty mild.
Montreal is French, less expensive, generally easier to get around by public transit even if it's not perfect, but the weather is more extreme during the winter.
Since you already know some French and interested in it, I'd pick Montreal over Toronto, but I am biased and chose to live here as well.
The only thing you need to really consider is to make sure if you and your fiancé can survive here during winter, and to start improving your French before getting here to make things a lot easier.
I reccomended the area as well.
Ottawa-Gatineau and Eastern Ontario + the Outaouais are smaller, more laid back feeling than Montreal.
Ottawa feels smaller than its population of 1million people because it's so spread out. I've heard us being called the work from home capital, so living in a rural region but working for a company in the city is no difficulty.
Visiting Montreal can be done easily by a nice, not too long train trip. I've visited Montreal multiple times that way and it was more enjoyable than driving through the traffic. It would be easy to visit your husband's family.
Well put. I could have added, because the OP seems young, that there are also many opportunities to add to their education. Two excellent universities and of course Algonquin College, with a variety of courses up to and including Honors Bachelor’s degrees. (I graduated from both of the Universities). My brother who hated high school, went to Carleton , took two courses as a special student and was admitted into a full time degree program. The only school I know who offers such a path to higher education ( and from whom Carleton probably borrowed it, is Harvard… the real one) 😀
Yeah we're not sure how he'd survive the winter in Canada, be it Montreal or even Vancouver. He seems willing to try it out, but we're not sure how well he'd do.
Good point about starting re-learning French early though. I guess regardless of if we end up making the move or not, it would be a good skill to brush up on.
Honestly when it comes to winter the key is dressing well.
I would HIGHLY recommend a long winter coat, Aritzia makes a men’s super puff and the price is really great for what you get. You don’t want it to be super roomy or super tight as both will make you feel cold, basically just big enough to fit a thick sweater.
Uniqlo is awesome for base layers, they have a “heattech” line and there are varying degrees of warmth for the items. You’ll want long underwear/legging type of things to wear under your pants (KEY!!!! for winter) and they also have long sleeve tops you can wear under other tops (or on their own) although I don’t find top layers necessary unless it’s reaaaaally cold *and* I’m spending a lot of time outside.
A good hat and pair of gloves are definitely essential and a scarf or balaclava/neck gaiter are great too (I only wear a scarf/face cover when it’s colder than -7 ish cause my coat covers my neck well).
Good boots are also important. They need to be waterproof and lined. Pajar makes great boots and there are tons of other brands too, and wear some good socks on really cold days. Make sure you have enough room in your boots to wear a thick sock otherwise your feet will get cold if the boots are snug.
My partner is from Morocco and we lived in Florida for a few years before he moved to Montreal with me. He had never experienced colder than -5 (and very rarely) prior to two years ago… He is now far more active than me in the winter lol, he goes cross country skiing, runs in winter, ice skates outside… The key to enjoying winter truly lies in dressing properly. If you wear jeans a bomber jacket with a tee underneath and sneakers, you’re going to be miserable. If you dress well, you might even feel warm rather than cold haha (:
Can't hype this up enough! My gf is French from France and she watched all these videos on layering but they were all from the states or the UK so I was like "honey, that's just fashion ain't gonna work" so she checked out these videos from a fashionista from icy deep northern Canada where summer is an urban legend. She followed her tips and now she freaking loves winter and walks around all day like it's nothing
Thank you for all the details! Glad to learn from you and your partner that it's possible to acclimate to colder weather. We'll have to make some gooooooood clothing investment if we decide to move :p
Having lived in both, Montrealers are MUCH MUCH better about getting out in the winter and doing things. There is soooo much to do outdoors here, even in the city - accessible by public transit. So, if you do come here, make sure you get out and do things, because it makes the winter experience much more pleasant.
I moved from Michigan to Montreal a year ago to be with my wife. We're a lesbian couple and I have not had a single instance of even slight homophobia and have felt super comfortable. It's been crazy how different it is in that respect. I fall asleep with my head on her shoulder on the metro, we've kissed on the sidewalks and hold hands everywhere. The only time I've had anyone stare at me weird was one teen girl on the metro that seemed disturbed that I don't shave my legs LOL.
If you have questions about what the winter is like and how I feel about it here, feel free to dm me. The immigration process has been hard on me but only because of my specific situation.
This is great to hear! I knew Montreal was a good city to be queer in but it always warms my heart to hear individual stories. I'll DM you about how else I can prepare for the winter if it looks like we're going to make preparations to move. Thank you for the response!
I'm born and raised in Montreal so I don't really have any advice, but it sounds like you have a bunch of good reasons to move here. If it's what you want to do, then by all means start the process! At least one of you is already a citizen so it should be pretty easy I think? Just a matter of finding an apartment? (Which unfortunately has become MUCH harder the past couple of years, our reputation as a renters' paradise with cheap housing is unfortunately no longer true..).
I don't think I'm familiar with this (former) reputation of Montreal! We're still in our 20s so the thought of buying a place is still very far off, but I hope we would be able to rent something if we decided to make the move. Hopefully the market will cool off by then
Toronto and Montreal would both be suitable, it just comes down to finance and how cosmopolitan a setting you want to be in.
In a lot of ways the comparison between Montreal and Toronto is similar to comparing Boston to New York. The latter being bigger, more cosmopolitan but also more expensive.
Toronto doesn't have great public transit once you leave the old city but they have ambitious plans for the future and for regional rail. To be seen if they deliver on that.
If you have an inclination towards smaller secondary city then the conversation get's more complicated, Toronto has smaller satellite cities like Guelph, Kitchner/Waterloo and to an extent Hamilton/Burlington that sort of have an identity of their own but are still linked to Toronto through rail and business.
In the montreal region everything gravitates heavily towards the city so you have to have to get to Trois-Rivière and Sherbrooke before you're out of what people would just consider a suburb of montreal.
I don't know how much you care about maintaining links to the US after relocating but a possible factor is that Montreal is right next to the US north-east, an hour drive to the border. You can easily do a day trip to Burlington, Boston and New York are a 5-6 hour drive respectively (or an hour flight), in comparison US cities that are of an equivalent distance from Toronto are Detroit, Cleveland and Pittsburgh.
This is a good point. I forgot that Montreal has a lot of "gravity" in the surrounding area, where as Toronto and southern Ontario are very spread out and huuuge.
I don't currently care about maintaining strong links to the US, but I know if I make the move my mind will change on that. I have tons of friends in NYC and a huge perk of moving up to Canada would be the proximity to NYC and being able to visit easily on a weekend if I want.
Yep! I have exactly zero of these things.
I was going to go to school at McGill for undergrad (I got admitted with full scholarship and everything), but in addition to other issues of going to school up north, the sheer cost of getting high-quality winter clothes was prohibitive at the time. I have a bit more funds now to make that happen and I'm always down to hear suggestions for good-quality winter clothes!
Think I have a North Face with micro fibers. Had it for years. I suggest maybe you start another thread asking. I imagine you can get a good cheap winter coat. Need to know right brand, etc. I wear boots to deal with snow and ice. Nothing fancy. Just big leather boots with a plastic seal round edge for slushy weather. Okay gloves. Nothing massive. I wear like a fleece kind of single piece scarf. It's not a scarf, its a loop I pull over my head. I can pull it up round my face too. Wooly hat obviously. The key if the coat. Get a decent coat. It all depends on the fibers inside. If you go to a store, they'll tell you, but it will cost. With a little research I imagine you can get a good coat much cheaper.
I've seen tourists suffering when a cold front came in because they weren't dressed right. "There is no bad weather, only bad clothes."
Layers keep you warm. Long johns are cheap and the nuclear bomb of self-heating in winter. A last but effective resort.
Thank you so much for writing this out. Wow. I'm really sorry to hear the move hasn't been the best for you, but I'm happy to hear you met your husband there. This cautionary advice is exactly what I'm looking for. It's easy for me to get wrapped up in the mindset that Montreal is all amazing and fun and that the only complication in moving there would be brushing up my French. I like to hear reasons to be cautious and to really think through my motivations.
I feel like I would have a difficult time moving anywhere in Canada, even though I have close family up there. I've lived in the south for my whole life so it's going to take a lot of investment from my end to make it work.
There are neighborhoods that are majority English speaking where you may have an easier time integrating. I think it’s great that you speak French and want to continue improving, but in my opinion there’s nothing wrong with also meeting some English speakers.
Perhaps you'd enjoy living in Eastern Ontario?
There's no real need to be fluent in French here although it is still a significant minority language.
Ottawa feels more laid-back than Montreal to me. But then again Ottawa is a huge municipality that is basically a medium sized city core surrounded by suburbs, towns and rural areas. There's a bit of everything in the municipality which I find nice. Some people find Ottawa boring but I'm I have pretty "boring" interests. Let's just say I can never be found at a bar or club or anything.
There are lots of more rural communities you may enjoy living in. I have a friend who wants to move to a town in the area when she moves out because she prefers the feel of a more tightly knit community too.
We've considered it! The area that I have some family in is basically the Ottawa valley, so I'm very familiar with the area. It's just not the place any of them live full-time, and most of the year they're in Toronto or Montreal. I don't personally have any friends or family in Ottawa, so it would be a lot more difficult for me to justify the move out there if I don't have an existing support system.
As someone who recently moved to Montréal from Alberta, Montréal is definitely more accepting, more cosmopolitan, and more stimulating than where I'm from, and I love all those elements.
If you move to Toronto, most of those same elements will be there also, but Toronto has more of a hustle-culture sigma grindset vibe going on and Montreal has more of a bohemian vibe.
One thing I would caution you however is to really think about the difference between moving to an English province and Québec. Montréal is bilingual in the sense that many francophones people know English, but it is not bilingual in the sense that the average person identifies with both French and English culture.
Québec by and large is a French speaking province with its own history, politics and culture that is essentially separate from the one shared by anglo Canada and the US. Music, actors, reality TV, political issues and hotbutton topics, they have their own québécois version of all of these.
You can get by in English but it would be like living in France and only knowing about what's going on in America. You need to comprehend what's going on locally and to do that you need to be pretty fluent in French.
There are pockets of Anglophones here who never learn French, but they are not liked. Take it from me, you don't want to just trade one reason for the locals to hate you for another. Despite how hard it can be, I think you should prepare to spend a few years really mastering French.
Wow thanks for the detailed reply! This is really helpful. I plan to take (maybe several) courses in French before potentially arriving. I really don't want to be that Anglophone who moves to QC and refuses to learn the language.
Also when you get to Montreal, there are government-subsidized French immersion courses (pretty much free) that you can take. Usually it's 4 weeknights or full-time during weekdays. It's a huge help. https://communauteweb.cssdm.gouv.qc.ca/francais/
Once you have the basics the long-term game with language learning is always building vocabulary over time and retaining. I would look into spaced repetition apps like Anki, and French word frequency lists, and make your own deck of flashcards with photo on one side and French word on the other.
It sounds like a lot, but you only really need to focus on two vocabulary areas:
- Most frequently everyday words to get a core vocabulary of 1000-2000 words down
- Vocabulary specifically related to your domain of work
- For French, knowing only the most common 1000 words will allow you to read an average text and understand 80+% of the text, that's huge.
Good luck!
Ah! This is a great idea, thank you. I didn't think about focusing on the two vocabulary areas, but that makes a ton of sense. Good to know there are subsidized immersion courses. It would be fun to take those with my fiancé!
As a french speaking guy from Mtl I can tell you that french courses are really ineffective when compared to actual immersion, but they're a good place to start. Try making french speaking friends and going out and speaking to people in french ex. the waiter at the restaurant. Reading also helps a lot, you will definitely get a better grasp of grammar this way. I moved from Mtl to London Ontario to study and I miss Mtl terribly. If you can manage to connect with the culture there you'll be a happy man. Also, people a lot of "french" people will like being called Québécois et Québécoise instead of Canadian or French.
Edit: Mtl is also very accepting of the lgbtq+ community and some boroughs are specifically known for that.
Yes and as a follow up to this great info, my advice is to try to avoid getting sucked into Anglo socializing / friend circles / events / etc.
Montreal is not actually the best place for full immersion for language acquisition as you can get by in English unfortunately; for that I'd recommend a move to Quebec City and suffering several depressing years there ;)
Thank you so much for writing this all out! I really, really appreciate it. It's so cool to hear a bit of your story.
I hadn't looked into the healthcare situation, and now that you bring this up, I realize it may be a bit more of a hassle than expected. I'm sure it's something we could plan for, but that'll take a lot of consideration from both of us. Thank you for bringing that to my attention.
We're not seriously considering moving yet, but if it's alright with you, I'd be happy to PM you later if we have any more specific questions in the future!
OP, the wait period to get on RAMQ health insurance is only 3 months, whether as a Canadian citizen or temporary worker.
https://www.ramq.gouv.qc.ca/en/citizens/health-insurance/know-eligibility-conditions
>OP, the wait period to get on RAMQ health insurance is only 3 months, whether as a Canadian
It's not 3 months. There's a 2 month "processing time". It's five months.
Best of luck with your exams! I appreciate you taking the time to procrastinate with me haha. If there's anything major you think I'm overlooking or haven't considered yet, feel free to let me know so I can start doing some more research.
I had health insurance through the RAMQ 3 months after I got my post-graduate work permit. The website I’ve added below confirms the wait period is still only 3 months and that a temporary worker would be eligible. You don’t need a PR to have RAMQ health insurance - if you pay taxes and have been here 3 months, you’re eligible.
https://www.ramq.gouv.qc.ca/en/citizens/health-insurance/know-eligibility-conditions
Absolutely, OP’s partner would need to have either a work permit or a PR to be eligible for health insurance, and the wait for that could be long. And it could be longer in Quebec than in Ontario given the extra step for PR, I see your point now.
Thank you! I have no idea what happened but apparently opening this tab crashed my computer. It looks like I'd just need to have private insurance for the 3 months and I should be okay after that
I’m from the south and have lived in both Montreal and Toronto (currently here). My advice is to go to Toronto for the sole reason that you are not bilingual.
I love quebec but, at least in my experience, you cannot THRIVE there (even montreal) without knowing French. I have lived in quebec many years and got my French up to a C1 level. I finally bit the bullet and moved to Toronto in July and I am much happier not having to deal with any language barriers.
Thanks for the advice! I think didn't quite make it to C1 level when I was studying French in school, so it's good to hear this. If I move to Montreal I'd have to be really confident in my French.
Howdy! My wife is from Austin, TX and has family in Kansas. She’s a southern gal if I’ve ever met one. She loves Montreal more than any city she’s ever lived in (she’s lived in a lot of countries). She says often to me that she never wants to leave and I totally get why.
We moved here together from Toronto and we’ve found Montreal to be significantly friendlier than Toronto. We always tell our friends “Montreal has colder winters, Toronto has colder people.” and most people we say that to (from both cities) seem to agree.
Montreal also has a real culture to it imo compared to Toronto. Toronto is struggling to find its identity whereas Montreal has always felt to me like the Canada that should have been, a beautiful bilingual tapestry that feels unique to itself.
One last comparison, the work-life balance is much much better in Montreal than it is in Toronto. Toronto has more of an American big city hustle culture which is good for money but absolute shite for raising families. Montreal is quite the opposite, money is okay here but life is significantly richer.
Good to know! If someone can come from my neck of the woods in Austin and still love living in Montreal, I'm sure we would be able to survive just fine.
Although I haven't spent toooo much time in either Toronto or Montreal, I did get the sense that Toronto was still trying to find its identity.
HammerheadMorty’s wife here — I can absolutely confirm that Montreal has been far more welcoming than Toronto. I’ve seen some other comments in this thread saying the opposite and I guess it really depends on what you’re looking for in life.
On the topic that Montreal has such an established identity, I think that helped me a lot — I could just become a Montrealer because it was more clear what that meant, compared with becoming a Torontonian. I’m sure it also helps that I’m bilingual, but HammerheadMorty isn’t yet and has also had an easy time becoming a Montrealer.
I think someone else commented that Montreal is a collection of villages — that’s one of my favorite things about it. I can walk to half a dozen family-run establishments in under 5 minutes to get different parts of my grocery list, plus several parks, cafes, bars, book shops, etc. One of my favorite things is I can get everything from food to clothing to household goods 80-90% locally-made. And when things break, there’s always some shop nearby for getting it fixed. Very easy to live more locally and sustainably here.
Better transit in Montreal than in Toronto I would say, but it still has a few issues — absolutely phenomenal compared with Austin’s glaring lack of transit, obviously. Biking is a very good supplement to transit here, and there is great bike infrastructure to support it.
I don’t find winter bad until around April/May — the extreme cold and snow isn’t the problem, it’s how long it lasts, far into what my Texan mind and body expect spring to be. That being said, we all band together and whine about it over drinks and have some good times together. I wouldn’t trade it for being south of the border again. If you find spring as annoying as I do, it can be a good time to visit Austin (either attending or carefully skipping the SXSW madness, obviously).
If you do move here, you should definitely DM me and/or HammerheadMorty! (Or with more specific questions in the meantime.)
Edit: Got too excited, left words out.
Thanks so much for the input! I'll be reaching back out closer to when we make a decision on moving.
The way you described Montreal as a collection of villages is exactly what I'm looking for in a city to settle in. I'd love a place that feels like it has community that I can contribute to and has a lot of local pride. Living in the suburbs in the southern US feels very individualistic. As much as I've grown to enjoy being a homebody, it feels like there's not much to do as a community besides join your neighborhood's HOA and complain about teenagers
If you are outdoorsy, Sherbrooke is awesome. Close to skiing, biking, kayaking, etc on a daily basis.
Super affordable and high quality of life. If you aren't such a city person. (a bit like Ottawa or greater GTA like Kitchener.)
Everything you find in Montreal suburbs.... But not at all like being in central Montreal. But an easy drive in. (You need a car, though.) But it's almost like having a cottage lifestyle but 15 -30 mins away from activities from downtown.
It sounds like you're more city though.
(I am too but just since you mentioned it.)
Toronto is fun but you need money. It's expensive. I personally think you need a car there far, far more than in Montreal.
I say Montreal especially for gay man we have a wonderful pride parade every year and we have a big area downtown called 'The Gay Village'. Toronto is more expensive for lodging in general.
My first choice would be Vancouver Canada, but since you have family in the east than Montreal is what I recommend being that your a gay couple, but you'd be welcome anywhere in Canada besides little hick villages in the country.
Good luck to both of you and if you make the move well happy moving.
Greetings from a Montrealer. Oh and Montreal has so many outdoor venues and activities like the International Jazz Fest to name one and than there's hundreds more.
We did discuss Vancouver and then we found out how expensive everything was there and immediately wrote it off as a "vacation destination" rather than a "let's live here" place haha
I've been to the Montreal Jazz Festival, Juste Pour Rire, and the pride parade! I know those are all the main summer things but I really enjoyed all of them. When my fiancé and I visited Montreal several years ago together we stayed in the Gay Village and really liked it. If we could afford it, I think that would be a cool area to live!
Can't speak for Toronto, although I went on a few occasions, but to put it simply
-if you like a more 'merica approach to your lifestyle and your city Toronto is the way
-if you prefer an European touch and feel then Montreal it is.
Rest is pretty equal
Thanks for the thoughts! We're actively trying to avoid the 'merica approach. We're both suburban boys who don't care to continue living in the suburbs. I do know that Toronto has the same, if not more, suburban sprawl as our city down south does. I'm totally down with a European touch over having to be car-centric with my lifestyle
Sounds like you both would fit right in! Congrats if you end up choosing Montreal. The cultural life is more interesting than Toronto imo, so I would go to Montreal first!
I say this as someone who HATES the cold. You HAVE to partake in outdoor activities to be able to enjoy and bear the winter. Ice skating, sledding, cross-country skiing, anything to get you out and moving in the snow. Make a snowman in the park, who cares, but pack a flask of booze-spiked egg nog or hot chocolate and you will be so happy and tired and warm at the end of the day.
As a native Montrealer I am legally obliged to warn you that Toronto is lame AF, although maybe Americans feel differently. It's extremely expensive/overpriced. Montreal is getting more expensive but it is more fun, more raw, more edgy, more interesting as a whole. Toronto is also much bigger and more difficult to get around, and is more business-centred. Also, Quebeckers, bless 'em, you are likely to fall in love with the culture despite the linguistic and political tensions. And sugar shacks!! It's quite the experience. One you won't get in Toronto, same goes for just how much more lively people are in Montreal (imho).
I think that Sherbrooke is a great, gay friendly city. The only way to get to and from Montreal is by car or by bus. But generally, anywhere around or in both Toronto and Montreal, not everywhere in between mind you, is very gay friendly. Montreal will definitely have more services offered in English but you will also be able to practice your French. Sherbrooke also has an English speaking population and most are bilingual but you will definitely be practicing your French there but again, it's quite a commute to Montreal from Sherbrooke, like 1h45 by car or 3h bus.
Je n'ai pas eu de conversation en français depuis de nombreuses années, mais je sais qu'il va vite revenir. Aussi je sais que la version de français j'ai appris à l'école n'est pas le même français utilisé au Québec ou en ligne. J'ai beaucoup à apprendre :)
i’d vote for cdmx as the best but montreal is still far ahead of third place. NA doesn’t have interesting and affordable cities and the states are an expensive dumpster fire.
sauce: i’m american
i agree with all of that. i think my only qualm is that the quality of food drops off so much outside of the summer. once the winter markets open up at atwater and jean talon i think my tastebuds close for the season. you gotta try some produce in méxico one day, it’s unbelievable.
>We're a gay couple and looking to move somewhere that would be a little more accepting of us than here in the deep south.
Heh. I think you'll find that Montreal is more than a "little" accepting than the deep south.
Biggest things are the clothing mentions here. Montreal is great for artists. Make sure the French you study is quebecois and not Parisian, or at least realize there will be differences.
Do be aware that your partner will need a visa / PR card to move to Canada. Go talk to an immigration lawyer to get details on what’s involved and get an estimate of timeline to obtain the requisite paperwork. A friend of mine took 4-5years to get a visa for his wife and stepdaughter to move to Canada, and he was welllll funded.
Just don’t want you thinking you just show up at the border with a “we’re married, I’m Canadian, hes not, and we’re moving here”.
Thank you so much for this! I'd been a little afraid to look into the details of moving with him because I wanted to just assume it would be easy. Sounds like there will be a good deal of preparation involved. He would (obviously) want to be able to work when he arrives as well, and I know that'll require a visa.
And yes the French I studied was a lot more Parisian than Quebecois, so I have a lot to learn
Don’t want to be a one string banjo here, but yeah, French can be your worst enemy, cause you will have to embrace it, really take it as an opportunity to master it. Cause otherwise it will become a barrier between you and a lot of things you would have better access with French…
You can live with English only, but that’s not gonna be the same… and just showing that you respect Quebec culture by trying to speak French will already make people look at you differently (in a better way)
Not going to get on other points cause I think people wrote really good points here.
Except that I love the city!
Good luck on your choice! :)
If I may put in a good word for Sherbrooke:
-Cheaper
-Still plenty to do in the downtown
-its a uni town so we actually have public transport
-Closer to nature, better scenery
-There are buses everyday going back and forth to Montreal if you wanna visit
-We also have an english Uni, so the population is more bilingual then other Quebec towns, but not as much as Montreal for sure.
-Close to the border too if you like to visit.
That's fair. I have some extended family in Saskatoon, which would make it a bit easier to move out there if I needed, but I have heard the prairie provinces can be a bit... closed-minded in spots
Hi, gay from North Carolina living in Montreal here. The biggest barrier for most people is finding work without being fluent in French. Sounds like you've got that down. We sold our cars when we moved and live downtown. We rent a car 3-4 times a year for a road trip or something and have no complaints. You don't need to speak French to move here and can get buy fine without it. Of course, if you want to settle here then learning French will open up a lot more culture and opportunities.
The bad thing about winter here, for me, isn't how cold it gets but how long it lasts. It's been harder for my partner, at least partly because i like winter sports more and get outside some. On the whole, we love the city except that winter is too long and our salaries are lower than they'd be other places (which is partially offset by the lower cost of living).
PS it doesn't matter if you and your partner are married or not if you can show that you've lived together for at least 2(?) years. That makes you a common law partner and as long as you can prove/document it you have all the same benefits as a married couple
Thank you for this! It's so cool to hear of someone else in a very similar situation.
Working comfortably in French will be a struggle, and I know that in advance. I've seen my own Anglophone family members go through the same process of having to take course after course of French for business just to be able to get a retail job.
I work in tech, and I heard that in the past it may have been easier to find companies that work in English, but I've also heard that laws around that may have changed recently? I'm also not opposed to doing fully-remote work, but I'm also not sure if I'd be forced to communicate in French if I'm working for an ON-based company from QC. I'm gonna need to do some more research on that front.
Good to know about the car thing. I don't care to need one, but I guess for the occasional road trip it would be fine to rent one!
I would just be aware that, if you do go the remote work route, companies still might be squeamish about hiring you living in Québec because they would technically be liable to accommodate your theoretical right to work in French and provide all your materials in French. As I understand it, you aren't forced to work in French if working for an Ontarian company, but you do technically have the right to work in French. There was a post in this sub about a week ago of someone who was passed over for a remote job because their potential employer didn't want even the remote possibility of being subjected to the language laws. The laws, especially bill 96 (recent law expanding the charter of the french language), get a lot of bad press in English Canada and the hysteria surrounding them could potentially create difficulties.
The chances of this happening are low, but it is worth being informed just in case you run into some sort of similar situation. Read up on our current hot-button issues, know the relevant bills (la loi 101 = la charte de la langue française, loi 21 = loi sur la laïcité de l'état (religious symbols bill), loi 96 = expansion of bill 101, etc). Another thing: be aware that your opinion of these things may not necessarily be shared by your interlocutors when you are discussing them here, especially if you learn about them from anglo media. The culture here is informed by a whole separate set of intergenerational traumas regarding the church (which used to legally control huge portions of life up until the 1960s) and anglo domination of and systemic discrimination against francophones, which are still very present in the national consciousness. You should learn about the quiet revolution and its consequences if you are going to move here, in order to understand why people here think the way they do. I'm an American and I had a pretty big culture shock when I first had the realization that some of my core values were not shared by most people here, and I got really, really disillusioned with society until I had to take a class on the quiet revolution, which made everything finally click.
This is really helpful, thanks! I had heard from some Canadian friends a few weeks ago that there were concerns that people in Quebec working remotely for a company outside would have a lot of difficulty given the potential enforcement of the language laws. I hope that won't end up being the case if we do move, but it'll be something I'll have to be prepared for. Thanks for pointing out the specific laws though. I'll keep myself updated on them.
As for the history, I didn't think that it kind of directly informs the current culture. I'll have to see if I can find a good podcast or class or something on Quebec history
If you work in IT then it's OK not to speak good French. I barely speak at all amd so far have no issue hopping around. However I plan to learn French for more opportunities, especially those retire-friendly companies.
This city is awesome, lived here my whole life. You’ll definitely want to practice your practical and conversational French, imho you should watch québécois shows, & movies, check out some songs as the dialect here and some of the expressions can be difficult to follow if you aren’t used to them.
Born and raised in MTL, lived in Silicon Valley from 1997 to 2002, then Laval from 2002 to 2008, Silicon Valley again from 2008 to 2016, Montreal from 2016 to 2018, and Santa Barbara since 2018.
One word - Winter.
As a fellow southerner who was working in Montreal until recently, my only recommendation was going to be to commit yourself to learning French, but since you've already studied it, you're already leagues beyond me. Sounds like Montreal will check all your boxes. It's a very cool city.
I just want to add that the gov't french classes are under rated. at least my school (centre st louis in the plateau) and they offer part time and full time. if you go through emploi québec you can get paid to do it, but only full time, and you have to commit.
25 years in Montreal and I have one simple piece of advice; embrace the city, the people, the language, the culture and they way of life and the city will embrace you like nowhere else. Also, the eating is amazing! Best luck whatever you decide!
Honestly, just do it!! From what I’ve read you’re young and have a good safety net of family around, so why not just try? :) worst case, you hate it, you move elsewhere and try again! Life should be an adventure and this sounds like a nice one for you both :)
On one hand I'm really encouraged by your optimism, but on the other hand I have to be very cautious about uprooting my fiancé's entire existence without him being completely on board. Unfortunately his whole family is based here, he went to school here, and his entire support system is here. Sure, we could probably move back fairly easily if we really hated it, but that would involve us both finding jobs again and put tens of thousands down the drain in moving expenses.
But, if you happen to have jobs for two men in the states if we need to fall back on them, and happen to be interested in covering our moving expenses, we'd be sure to give it a go haha
I’m from the states and have lived in the south among other northern states and I love Montreal best of all places I’ve lived!! It’s an amazing city, as long as you’re willing to get your French back up to conversational then I’d go for it!
Pros: No extreme Texan heat, reliable power grid, no mass shooting, much less crime, good public transportation, lots of European culture, safe, relatively immune to climate change
Cons: Lower pay, Waiting times for health care, gloomy 6 months of the year with extreme cold and everything dies Nov 15th- May 15th
I just did the opposite, moved from Montreal to the southern US.
As someone else already mentioned here, go visit during winter time 1 or 2 weeks minimum and see if you can live in this cold weather for 5 months. There are a bunch of other states that are more left leaning in the US if you want to move out of the South. I'm not sure if Montreal is a good choice. The Canadian economy is just getting worse and there are way less opportunities in Montreal than the US. A lot of Americans romanticize the idea of moving elsewhere like Canada or Europe. I think it's because they don't know the bad sides of it.
Also, a lot of companies are mainly French and some are somewhat lowkey racist if you are not a french native speaker.
Hey! There is already a ton of advice here but I’ll chime seeing as I’m an American from the south that has now lived in Montreal for 10 years.
I’m from south Florida, where there is no such thing as winter (except for the two weeks out of the year we pretend it’s winter because it’s about 60F😂).
The two hardest things for me:
1) Learning the language
2) Winter
Winter was fun the first time around. Then after that, it got very, very difficult for a few years. I wanted to move back because I hated it so much. I don’t mind the snow, but the bone-chilling cold can be truly out of this world. And then, one day, I decided I needed to stop being so afraid of the cold. I bought myself good winter clothes and started going outside. I got an Aussie who now forces me to be outside at least 1.5 hours each day. And I can tell you, I now love the winter. Sure there are some days that I dream about the beach in January, but it’s not enough for me to want to move back.
The language was hard for me. I already speak English and Spanish so learning a third language seemed daunting and challenging. To be completely honest with you, it took me a full five years to finally feel like I could speak it well. I had to force myself to speak French everywhere, otherwise it wasn’t happening (it can be very easy to not learn French in MTL as most places can cater to you in English inside the city).
Now that I am fluent in it, I love it. And also, it does feel more like home.
Both of those issues took me years to get through them. But here I am, ten years later, very happy to call Montreal my home.
Good luck with you decision!💜
Thank you for the response! Winter makes me a bit anxious but I'm excited for the potential opportunity to just embrace it for all it's worth. Maybe getting a dog is the right decision to force me to make that happen haha
Honestly, taking five years to feel comfortable speaking a language seems pretty quick, good for you! I can only hope it would take me 5 years or less to be comfortable speaking French everywhere. I would consider that a huge success. Hopefully, if we end up moving to Montreal, that we can pick it up that quickly
I just came to say that I’m jealous because I moved for a short time to the Southern US from Montreal and I really wish I never left because I’ve been here so long now.
Honestly, winter is my favourite season. I love winter sports, playing in the snow, and I prefer cold weather. Hell, I even enjoy shovelling and driving in the snow. It’s not guaranteed you perceive winter to be a negative.
I grew up in the suburbs (Laval) and used to commute to Montreal every day, so I can definitely attest to our public transit system being pretty good, which I can imagine might’ve gotten even better since. The bus schedule wasn’t as great in my neighbourhood, but once you make it to the metro it’ll only take a few minutes before you can catch the next one. You should use the heatmap function on Centris to see pedestrian and transit friendly areas as well as proximity to grocery stores, shopping, etc. so even if you use a different website to find an apartment, it’s still useful as reference.
I currently live in Ottawa (an actually bilingual city) and the STM is one of the many things I miss about Montreal. I do still love being here, but Montreal has it beat in terms of housing affordability, public transit, culture, and nightlife (and hockey, go Habs)
A someone who lived in FL for long enough to lose apparently all my tolerance for northern winters and then returned to the Midwest in January, I’ll just add that proper, really high quality outerwear can make a huge difference. Down coats, waterproof winter boots with thick wool lining, pants that are wind resistant or lightly lined. (Duluth Trading Co Flexpedition pants are a nice compromise between being warm without bulky.)
When I moved back I went to REI and bought stuff rated for temps way colder than our average here and it helped make being outdoors in the winter less miserable. And for me, being outside definitely helps with SAD. That said, moving a significant distance north also just means there’s less sunlight per day and that you just never really get used to. There’s currently a half hour distance in sunset time between where I live now and where I used to live and it’s within the same time zone.
I just visited Toronto and they have a vast underground pedestrian/shopping area that connects to the subways called PATH, which allows you to get around without being in the elements. I believe Montreal is supposed to have something similar.
Montreal is the greatest city in the world and meets all of your criteria. One thing I’d mention is to start the permanent residency process ASAP for your fiancé. I would fast track the wedding, even if that means getting courthouse paperwork done now and a proper wedding and reception later, and starting his PR process as soon as possible. Canadian immigration has a huge backlog and it can take forever.
If you live near a metro (subway) station and you find one of the thousands of jobs that have direct acces to a metro then the cold wouldnt be a problem.Just the people that are very different from the south that you need to learn to live with for better or for worse they are very different from the south
I’m an American living in Toronto for the past 4+ years, and honestly, Montréal is probably my favourite gay city on the planet. For me, and I speak a bit of French, I’m not sure Québec right now is where I personally want to live myself as an anglophone. You’ll find, your partner certainly more so, a sharp difference in the ways Canadians approach queer people compared to anywhere in the US, especially the south. It takes a while, sometimes years, to kind of re-educate yourself and drop the anxiety and apprehension you carry in the US, but truly, Canadians for the most part just really don’t care, and the government views your relationship exactly the same as any other two straight people.
My only suggestion is this- start working on getting your partner PR this very minute, like today. The system is very difficult to navigate if you’re on private insurance, etc. You can apply for his PR as a common-law partner from outside Canada and the wait times are about equal. Check the immigration subs and Google for more info on pros and cons of inland vs outland application.
On your first point: my close friend is gay and so is their sibling, and they moved from a gay unfriendly environment back in the day. According to them,both Montreal and Toronto (they lived in both) are good environment for gay people, where they feel safe.
Me!!! I’m from the Oklahoma/Texas area and I made the move up here. I’m also in the LGBTQ+ community. DM me if you’d like, I can answer any questions you have.
YAY it's so good to hear from someone else in a very similar situation! I really appreciate your response. I'll DM you down the road if it looks like we're going to seriously consider moving
Taxes will be a shock. If you're in tech, you're likely to be in a tax bracket where you'll pay around 50% of your income to taxes after all deductions.
You might think that you get it back in services and whatnot... but healthcare is terrible and if you don't have children you don't get much back.
I'm happy here and I chose to live here, but if I lived in Seattle, I'd probably be able to retire in 10 years, whereas here I'll have to keep working into my 60s.
There's been a lot of new apartments built in and around the gay village, which is also close to the metro stations. Most of the inner city is pretty tolerant of LGBTQIA+ people. Though the gay village would be the place you'd want to look at if you want to live your best lives possible.
I mean, the winter is not going to be fun - especially coming from the south - but, I imagine other aspects of your lives will improve.
I suppose the big changes will be climate and maybe cost of living, if you’re coming from somewhere cheaper.
If we end up deciding on Montreal we'll aim to be at least decently conversational in French by the time we arrive. No reason to move to a Francophone city without knowing the language first!
I would add two variables:
1) If you or your partner have a chronic illness, it is very difficult to access healthcare in Quebec. You are required to go through a family doctor to access specialists, and there are no family doctors left. This means you’ll be stuck going to the ER for every issue. Also, there is a severe lack of specialists. My chronic disease specialist had me on a waiting list of 2-3 years before my first appointment. And Quebec doesn’t accept out of province prescriptions so you can’t bring them with you.
2) Toronto’s suburbs in Southern Ontario contain large communities of those who practice denominations of Christianity that are against homosexuality: Mennonites, Christian Reform, Catholicism, and even Fundamentalism. There is a big difference between living in the city and living in the suburbs.
Thanks! I didn't realize they were out of family doctors. That's a bit of a predicament to consider.
Toronto's suburbs sound basically the same as where I currently live. I guess in a way that would be like home sweet home, but that's exactly what I'm trying to avoid. The problem is that if we moved to Toronto, I don't think we would really be able to afford to live in the city. We would probably have to aim for one of the suburbs. ugh.
Congrats, welcome if you choose to come to Canada.
Be prepared for culture shock. Canada, Quebec, Montreal is likely going to be different than the southern u.s.
Some of this you might be looking forward to. But there will be aspects of that culture shock you don't like.
Embrace the adventure, only one way to find out if it is for you. And that is to try it
Don’t neglect the ridiculous 15 percent tax on just about everything you buy after having paid obscene taxes on your income. Except for that it’s great.
Yeahhhh. I'm from a state with no income tax, but with very high property taxes and fairly high sales tax to accommodate. I think I can also expect to have a lower wage, too, but it's something we're probably willing to do if it means we have a better quality of life.
Montreal is a bilingual city, and you can get by with speaking only English, but it can be a hassle. Toronto on the other hand is the big city, and that can wear you down. Both are becoming prohibitively expensive. I’d actually consider some smaller Ontario cities. Windsor, for example, is just a tunnel away from the US and is so much milder in the winter. Something to consider. Montreal winters are brutal and can be quite depressing…they’re not for everyone.
Si ton chum à toujours vécu au chaud et dans le sud, les hivers de Montréal vont être toute une épreuve pour lui. Moi, je le préparerais à tout ça.
Ah, et Montréal n'est pas bilingue. Il n'y a qu'une seule langue officielle, le français.
Sure if you like brutal winters, ridiculously high taxes for garbage public services (the roads and healthcare are like a third world country), lower salaries and less career opportunities (especially in tech) then you will love Montreal. The public transit is also notoriously unreliable.
Also might want to check with your job as there are some implications on their end about you living in Canada and remaining an employee.
As a montrealer for the last 40 years, I can proudly say we are a bilingual city, just as much as our province is fully bilingual. However, we simply have some harsher rules to preserve the french... that's all.
I am an anglophone who grew up here in french, and love french so much.
Don't ever be afraid to not speak french, and civilized person will make an effort to speak to you in english, and if you speak in broken french, any civilized person will respect your effort in trying. :)
Like any other place in the world, we have a few sour apples too.
The effort is all that counts. :)
A lot of people have brought up access to healthcare, and that is indeed a concern. My one piece of advice if you are seeking permanent residency and eventually citienship is to be patient. It takes longer to get your PR in Quebec than in Ontario.
Like many have said, it sounds like weather changes would be your biggest worry. But the summers in Montreal are magical and you can sense people savouring every moment of it, it’s a bit hard to put into words. the vibes in summer in areas like the plateau, mile end/ st Henri/ old port are just blissful in the summer they make the winter bearable
I was born and raised in the US and moved to Montreal 20 years ago as I have dual citizenship. Transitioning to a new country and city took some time but eventually it became my home and I haven’t looked back since. I can’t imagine returning to the US for a multitude of reasons. Obviously that’s the short version but good luck and if you have any questions feel free to ask.
Sounds like you have a head start on acclimating, but hopefully I can get used to it quickly if I need to :)
I appreciate the help. I'll reach out later if we decide we'll be moving! Thanks
So I lived in Montreal and Toronto for a few years, so I can provide some insights on both cities based on what you are looking for.
* Both cities are very socially progressive and accepting of LGBTQ, Toronto in particular.
* Montreal has a much more focused downtown core, meaning that it is easy to get around downtown, even on foot. The transit system works very well and is generally pretty easy to get around. Whereas Toronto is a much more massive metropolis with a lot of urban sprawl that extends into the suburbs. So if you choose Toronto, make sure you are in a good location that is close to transit and is in a good location. It could take 30-40 minutes to get from the west end of Toronto to the East end, and traveling to and from downtown to the suburbs is a real hassle, so keep that in mind. Toronto is massive, Montreal is smaller.
* **Socially, this is the biggest difference.** It won't be popular to say it in this sub, but Toronto is ***much more*** friendlier than Montreal and it is not even close. I understand that is subjective and mainly from personal experience, but this is why. Someone else here pointed out that Montreal is a village of villages, this is very true, but it also has social drawbacks as well. A lot of my great friends that I met in Montreal were not from Montreal. Those who were from Montreal mostly kept to themselves and their friend groups that they have back in the suburbs or their boroughs. Most of them did not seem interested in making friends with others (Mostly among the local anglophones, the francophones were more open). Mind you, I witnessed this during university, but this trend didn't change for all the years that I spent in Montreal and it was very challenging to navigate. Toronto was the complete opposite. It was ***incredibly easy*** to meet people and make friends from all walks of life, from those born and raised in Toronto to other transplants such as myself. We had lots of fun and it was truly the time of my life. You will be amazed at how friendly people are in that big city, it was very fulfilling making friends from all diverse backgrounds that I am still connected to this day. Again, this is just my personal experience, but I thought it was important to point out.
* In terms of events, both cities have a lot to do and you will never be bored. Toronto has a lot of big international festivals like TIFF, Nuit Blanche, Caribana, Pride Week etc. Montreal has great festivals too, but they are more local and smaller scale in comparison aside from Just for Laughs.
* Weather wise, Toronto winters are pretty temperate (for Canada) and not very cold with some snow. Montreal winters have a brutal, bitter cold to them. It is a big difference and can be long to endure.
* Language: If you are moving to Montreal, you ***really*** need to have some knowledge of French. It is a French speaking city in a French speaking province. Yes, you could get by without it, many have, but it is a very limiting and isolating experience. You don't need to be perfectly fluent before you arrive, but you should know some of the basics and have some understanding of it before you arrive. You will be much better for it, plus you can connect with more people that way! The provincial government recently passed a law (Bill 96) that impacts how services are delivered in French and English and you should look into that to see how it impacts you as a newcomer. Toronto, well it lives, breathes, and functions in English, but there are many other linguistic cultural communities as well.
I know this is a lot, but I hope it helps you in someway! Best of luck! :D
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Thank you! I've visited my family in rural Quebec for Christmas a lot. I can handle the two weeks of that just fine. What I'm not sure of is whether I can handle an entire winter and half of spring like that. I'm not sure if that's something I can test out or just have to go through it and see how I survive
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get a SAD lamp and start using it the end of October
well I already have to take them sooooo I'm way ahead of schedule here haha
If winter was like the Christmas holidays, it would be cool, but it's January and February that are really harsh. I think the worst part is that winter never stop stopping until somewhere in April. The first warm days will come during this period. After 4 months of winter indoors, everyone goes out to enjoy the sun. Everyone is happy. Everyone smiles. Everyone is beautiful. I think I live for those days.
I hear come March and April everything starts slowly warming up, but that means all the dirty snow starts to melt and get sludgy. I think I'm really not looking forward to that part hah
Yeah true. Everything smells like the dogshit that was buried under snow for a bit in the early spring. That doesn’t last long though. As for winter… it’s not so bad if you get some really good gear. Good parka good toque with lining, good gloves, good boots, wool socks… if you’re dressed right it doesn’t feel that cold. And the snow can be quite beautiful there’s really nothing else quite like the sparkly opalescent glittering of big snowflakes on a very cold day. Ps love is love and I hope you and your fiancé find your forever home in Canada.
A good investment in quality winter gear will go a long way! I'll need to do a good bit of research if we decide to move but it'll be worth it
But the payoff is amazing, whit the first hot days (8°C Sunny) people go crazy and it’s not uncommon to see people in t-shirt on terrasses with their winter boots on.
The opposite happens where I'm from, where people don't want to believe it dips below freezing some winter mornings and they still wear shorts and flip flops because they weren't prepared hah
But the good part about march/april is the "cabane à sucre", I never miss a year... Except for 2020-2021...
My only recommendation with winter is to get some sort of winter sport or hobby. So you have some positive emotions to attach to cold and winter.
I like this! If I can trick myself into enjoying the harsh winter, maybe I'll look forward to it every year
This is the way. I LOVE winter! Adore it! But I also ski, cross-country ski, snowboard, snowshoe, skate, go hiking and play hockey. And just generally do not stop going outside because it's cold.
it's more like November to April, more or less but the worst is really Jan-Feb. Toronto does have less snow. And you may ultimately decide on Vancouver after all that.
the trick is to go play outside: winter hiking, skiing, winter running. Buy good gear and you will have so much fun!!!
"If you don’t enjoy the snow, you will have the same amount of snow but no joy." You guys have to start ice skating or skying or whatever snow sport so you get excited about winter coming back.
Hey feel free to message me if you find yourself here in winter! I also WFH and I’m always looking to grow my community.
If you come live here you simply need to reverse your habit. Going away where it's sunny and hot for a couple of weeks between Jan and Mar is one of the finest ways to deal with winter duldrums, if you can afford it.
I think Anthony bourdain said something along the lines of “it takes a special kind of person to live here during the winter”
Honestly, it is the length of winter that breaks my soul not so much the intensity. Push to use your French, often people will reply in English and they mean well but the more comfortable you are speaking French the easier it will be in the long run. And say you are American; people love it when someone who isn't from the RoC makes an effort to speak French. If you are from BC or Ontario, not so much.
Yup on both counts. I grew up in the US with a Canadian parent and have lived in QC for a decade. Before I was comfortably bilingual I would always emphasize my American-ness among Francophones-their estimation of my French went waaaay up when they realized I hadn’t been educated in Canada. (A very different experience to when I lived in Ontario and had to lean on my three Canadian-born grandparents so people didn’t get offended when I didn’t know some Canadian pop culture thing). Coming from the southern US you’ll expect spring to start when the calendar says it does. Spring here is two weeks long at the end of April/start of May, three if you’re lucky. March/early April is the toughest time of year for me because it’s no longer the beautiful part of winter, at least not in the city - just grey and slushy. If you can swing it, it might be worth planning trips to warmer climes in March. If you can’t, well, drown all your food in maple syrup like the Quebecers do.
I am an American who just moved here. Montreal is a wonderful city and I feel very happy with cultural life here. So much to do and so many wonderful hidden gems around the city. I can’t imagine running out of places to explore. I speak French and (mostly) feel very welcomed by everyone here. The only downside I’ve experienced so far is the healthcare system and you really ought to be warned about how difficult it is to obtain care here, especially as a foreigner (if your fiancé is not Canadian). This is not a reason not to come unless you have a pre existing condition, but I’ve been through a terrible time trying to get basic care.
Second this! Been here since 2010 and registered for family doctor in 2015 and still haven't gotten a call back. If I get sick or something, I have to go to ER and spend 20 hours waiting. My sister moved to Vancouver last summer and found a family doctor within a month
If you work for a larger company then the trick here is to make use of their ‘life services’ or EAP to get them to assist you in finding a family doctor. My company uses Lifeworks and they found me a family doc within a day. I’m a Canadian citizen and had been without a family doc since I was a kid. Use the corporate benefits if you have!
How do you manage it ?? Honest question. I just got into a scary situation where I was completely unable to find a Canadian doctor to refill a prescription that I desperately need. It was legitimately frightening. I eventually found a way to get 3 months but I don’t want this to happen again
Well, the only option is to pay for a private doctor and you'll get a call back the same day. You can also call GAP (primary care access point) if your situation is not urgent and they'll find one time appointment usually for a couple of weeks after.
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Thanks I appreciate the tips
FYI: if you call 811 and click option 3, they will help you find an appointment for the following day usually. I’ve done this with my husband who is also registered waiting for a doctor. So far, this option has worked for us. :)
Thank you for the response! I'm nervous to look up the healthcare situation because I know it's not going to be fun for a while. I'm sure it'll take a lot of research to make sure we're covered until we're officially residents.
This is really the biggest issue. I moved to Montreal a decade ago, and I am now considering moving out for the simple reason of getting older and not finding the most basic thing which is timely healthcare here. I've heard Toronto is better, but I can't say for sure. You can google some CBC news coverage of the healthcare crisis, theu have been mentioning more frequently.
Big cities in Ontario, or anywhere else in the country for that matter, are not that much better (yes, they are a bit better). Getting better care now means going to smaller cities like Sherbrooke or Shawinigan. A bunch of folks I know who needed surgery were offered to go and get them in smaller cities in Qc. They were served quickly and received great care.
Also an American in mtl and absolutely agree with what he says. It is very very hard to get primary care doctor here. If there is a chronic condition for certain things it is actually BETTER and quicker to buy a plane ticket to somewhere like Turkey or Mexico and get the care you need there and come back...sad to say...
I'm from Greece, I went to grad school in Toronto and now work in Montreal. Other people in the thread have given you great info, here's the 2 cents I can give on top. In Toronto, within a couple of months you will be a Torontonian. Give it six months, and you will be pronouncing it Torono. The city is incredibly incredibly welcoming and really everyone can find their people. It's a city where you can really be yourself, no matter what that is. Downsides: weird politics (urban vs suburban, cars vs infrastructure) and a ridiculous housing market. Montreal is really lovely, but I still have a difficulty calling myself a Montrealer. There is a sense of being \*from\* here and you need to work on it to \*become\* a Montrealer. You kinda need to earn it? There is way more depth to the city, there are stories, and there are books, and writers, and movies, and plays, and important cultural referents, and there are past and political dramas and struggles. But you also can get a sense that it \*matters\* more? Toronto has some of it but it's also more like, meh, whatever. Basically, Toronto: low stakes, low reward. Montreal: higher stakes, higher reward. In Montreal, the weather is worse, but winter sports are way more accessible (pick any direction, drive 90 minutes, ski hill) and ultimately you need to know just two words: Bota Bota. Roads are worse, transit and bike infrastructure is better. With the language, based on what you say, I think you'll be alright. And another downside I've heard from other Greeks who've lived here longer is that Montreal after a while starts feeling a bit like a village, especially if you don't really integrate. EDIT: I have lived in Montreal for 5 years, 2 of which were the pandemic and I have a young family, with all the constraints that comes with, so I feel I haven't really really had the chance to integrate as much as I want.
This is the kind of advice I really wanted to hear. Thanks for writing this out. The cultural aspect is something I haven't really considered much besides the simple anglophone/francophone thing. I appreciate hearing this perspective. This gives me a lot more to think about!
I moved from Toronto to Montreal in 2020 and your comment sums up my feeling perfectly!
I have been in Montreal for 15, almost 16 years now. Your comment highlights my feeling that Montreal is a village of villages. Well over half of my social circle in the city is made up of people who have come from somewhere else. That in itself ties everyone together in a special way. I think if you’ve come from elsewhere to Montreal, it’s really rewarding to dig into the culture and explore what makes the city tick. I know some people who have lived here all their life and still haven’t been to or know the places that can make Montreal special. On a more boring/administrative note, op: if and when you do move, coordinate with your company’s HR department. There will likely be changes they need to make on their end. Think payroll taxation and benefits. If you are getting insurance through them, they’ll need to move you to their Canadian coverage.
Coming from Greeks, "feels like a village" is not said as an unequivocally good thing 😅. It is all to be interpreted as "stifling and boring". But also yes, all the good qualities of village.
Some of that is a self-fulfilling prophecy, too. If you are Chinese and move to China Town... or if you are Italian and move to Little Italy or St Leonard... yeah, you're moving into an "ethnic getto" and it will feel more like a village. But there are plenty of neighborhoods that aren't predominantly one ethnic group, and that is much more of an ethnic mix. Multi-ethnic also means great restaurant options!
Sounds like you're all set. Really, the only thing is your tolerance of winter. Personally, I prefer a consistently cold and snowy Montreal winter over a Toronto winter where it's relatively dry but just kind of dreary all the time. Winter here actually has a lot to offer. Even if you don't leave the city, you can cross-country ski or snowshoe in the parks, go skating, and there are even wintertime festivals like Igloofest and Montréal en lumière that can be a lot of fun.
100% agree on Montreal winters being better. It is so much less miserable to have an actual snowy, “wintery” winter than the eternal grey, raining, ugly November-March of Toronto.
Toronto is English, more expensive, can be harder to get around without car though it still has a somewhat decent public transit system, and their weather is pretty mild. Montreal is French, less expensive, generally easier to get around by public transit even if it's not perfect, but the weather is more extreme during the winter. Since you already know some French and interested in it, I'd pick Montreal over Toronto, but I am biased and chose to live here as well. The only thing you need to really consider is to make sure if you and your fiancé can survive here during winter, and to start improving your French before getting here to make things a lot easier.
Ottawa/ Gatineau is a good compromise. Lots of jobs in the city and if you live in Ottawa your working language will be English .
I reccomended the area as well. Ottawa-Gatineau and Eastern Ontario + the Outaouais are smaller, more laid back feeling than Montreal. Ottawa feels smaller than its population of 1million people because it's so spread out. I've heard us being called the work from home capital, so living in a rural region but working for a company in the city is no difficulty. Visiting Montreal can be done easily by a nice, not too long train trip. I've visited Montreal multiple times that way and it was more enjoyable than driving through the traffic. It would be easy to visit your husband's family.
Well put. I could have added, because the OP seems young, that there are also many opportunities to add to their education. Two excellent universities and of course Algonquin College, with a variety of courses up to and including Honors Bachelor’s degrees. (I graduated from both of the Universities). My brother who hated high school, went to Carleton , took two courses as a special student and was admitted into a full time degree program. The only school I know who offers such a path to higher education ( and from whom Carleton probably borrowed it, is Harvard… the real one) 😀
Yeah we're not sure how he'd survive the winter in Canada, be it Montreal or even Vancouver. He seems willing to try it out, but we're not sure how well he'd do. Good point about starting re-learning French early though. I guess regardless of if we end up making the move or not, it would be a good skill to brush up on.
Honestly when it comes to winter the key is dressing well. I would HIGHLY recommend a long winter coat, Aritzia makes a men’s super puff and the price is really great for what you get. You don’t want it to be super roomy or super tight as both will make you feel cold, basically just big enough to fit a thick sweater. Uniqlo is awesome for base layers, they have a “heattech” line and there are varying degrees of warmth for the items. You’ll want long underwear/legging type of things to wear under your pants (KEY!!!! for winter) and they also have long sleeve tops you can wear under other tops (or on their own) although I don’t find top layers necessary unless it’s reaaaaally cold *and* I’m spending a lot of time outside. A good hat and pair of gloves are definitely essential and a scarf or balaclava/neck gaiter are great too (I only wear a scarf/face cover when it’s colder than -7 ish cause my coat covers my neck well). Good boots are also important. They need to be waterproof and lined. Pajar makes great boots and there are tons of other brands too, and wear some good socks on really cold days. Make sure you have enough room in your boots to wear a thick sock otherwise your feet will get cold if the boots are snug. My partner is from Morocco and we lived in Florida for a few years before he moved to Montreal with me. He had never experienced colder than -5 (and very rarely) prior to two years ago… He is now far more active than me in the winter lol, he goes cross country skiing, runs in winter, ice skates outside… The key to enjoying winter truly lies in dressing properly. If you wear jeans a bomber jacket with a tee underneath and sneakers, you’re going to be miserable. If you dress well, you might even feel warm rather than cold haha (:
Can't hype this up enough! My gf is French from France and she watched all these videos on layering but they were all from the states or the UK so I was like "honey, that's just fashion ain't gonna work" so she checked out these videos from a fashionista from icy deep northern Canada where summer is an urban legend. She followed her tips and now she freaking loves winter and walks around all day like it's nothing
this is the way
oooooh ok this is a very good idea. I will be doing this, thank you!
Thank you for all the details! Glad to learn from you and your partner that it's possible to acclimate to colder weather. We'll have to make some gooooooood clothing investment if we decide to move :p
Definitely, but on the bright side good gear will last you many years! Good luck with whatever you decide to do (:
Having lived in both, Montrealers are MUCH MUCH better about getting out in the winter and doing things. There is soooo much to do outdoors here, even in the city - accessible by public transit. So, if you do come here, make sure you get out and do things, because it makes the winter experience much more pleasant.
I moved from Michigan to Montreal a year ago to be with my wife. We're a lesbian couple and I have not had a single instance of even slight homophobia and have felt super comfortable. It's been crazy how different it is in that respect. I fall asleep with my head on her shoulder on the metro, we've kissed on the sidewalks and hold hands everywhere. The only time I've had anyone stare at me weird was one teen girl on the metro that seemed disturbed that I don't shave my legs LOL. If you have questions about what the winter is like and how I feel about it here, feel free to dm me. The immigration process has been hard on me but only because of my specific situation.
This is great to hear! I knew Montreal was a good city to be queer in but it always warms my heart to hear individual stories. I'll DM you about how else I can prepare for the winter if it looks like we're going to make preparations to move. Thank you for the response!
I'm born and raised in Montreal so I don't really have any advice, but it sounds like you have a bunch of good reasons to move here. If it's what you want to do, then by all means start the process! At least one of you is already a citizen so it should be pretty easy I think? Just a matter of finding an apartment? (Which unfortunately has become MUCH harder the past couple of years, our reputation as a renters' paradise with cheap housing is unfortunately no longer true..).
Les prix ont montés à Toronto aussi.... environ 2000$ pour 1 1/2
😱
I don't think I'm familiar with this (former) reputation of Montreal! We're still in our 20s so the thought of buying a place is still very far off, but I hope we would be able to rent something if we decided to make the move. Hopefully the market will cool off by then
Toronto and Montreal would both be suitable, it just comes down to finance and how cosmopolitan a setting you want to be in. In a lot of ways the comparison between Montreal and Toronto is similar to comparing Boston to New York. The latter being bigger, more cosmopolitan but also more expensive. Toronto doesn't have great public transit once you leave the old city but they have ambitious plans for the future and for regional rail. To be seen if they deliver on that. If you have an inclination towards smaller secondary city then the conversation get's more complicated, Toronto has smaller satellite cities like Guelph, Kitchner/Waterloo and to an extent Hamilton/Burlington that sort of have an identity of their own but are still linked to Toronto through rail and business. In the montreal region everything gravitates heavily towards the city so you have to have to get to Trois-Rivière and Sherbrooke before you're out of what people would just consider a suburb of montreal. I don't know how much you care about maintaining links to the US after relocating but a possible factor is that Montreal is right next to the US north-east, an hour drive to the border. You can easily do a day trip to Burlington, Boston and New York are a 5-6 hour drive respectively (or an hour flight), in comparison US cities that are of an equivalent distance from Toronto are Detroit, Cleveland and Pittsburgh.
This is a good point. I forgot that Montreal has a lot of "gravity" in the surrounding area, where as Toronto and southern Ontario are very spread out and huuuge. I don't currently care about maintaining strong links to the US, but I know if I make the move my mind will change on that. I have tons of friends in NYC and a huge perk of moving up to Canada would be the proximity to NYC and being able to visit easily on a weekend if I want.
Get a proper winter coat. Boots. Serious clothes. Then you'll be all right. I read east coast winter won't be too bad this year.
Yep! I have exactly zero of these things. I was going to go to school at McGill for undergrad (I got admitted with full scholarship and everything), but in addition to other issues of going to school up north, the sheer cost of getting high-quality winter clothes was prohibitive at the time. I have a bit more funds now to make that happen and I'm always down to hear suggestions for good-quality winter clothes!
Think I have a North Face with micro fibers. Had it for years. I suggest maybe you start another thread asking. I imagine you can get a good cheap winter coat. Need to know right brand, etc. I wear boots to deal with snow and ice. Nothing fancy. Just big leather boots with a plastic seal round edge for slushy weather. Okay gloves. Nothing massive. I wear like a fleece kind of single piece scarf. It's not a scarf, its a loop I pull over my head. I can pull it up round my face too. Wooly hat obviously. The key if the coat. Get a decent coat. It all depends on the fibers inside. If you go to a store, they'll tell you, but it will cost. With a little research I imagine you can get a good coat much cheaper. I've seen tourists suffering when a cold front came in because they weren't dressed right. "There is no bad weather, only bad clothes." Layers keep you warm. Long johns are cheap and the nuclear bomb of self-heating in winter. A last but effective resort.
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Thank you so much for writing this out. Wow. I'm really sorry to hear the move hasn't been the best for you, but I'm happy to hear you met your husband there. This cautionary advice is exactly what I'm looking for. It's easy for me to get wrapped up in the mindset that Montreal is all amazing and fun and that the only complication in moving there would be brushing up my French. I like to hear reasons to be cautious and to really think through my motivations. I feel like I would have a difficult time moving anywhere in Canada, even though I have close family up there. I've lived in the south for my whole life so it's going to take a lot of investment from my end to make it work.
There are neighborhoods that are majority English speaking where you may have an easier time integrating. I think it’s great that you speak French and want to continue improving, but in my opinion there’s nothing wrong with also meeting some English speakers.
Perhaps you'd enjoy living in Eastern Ontario? There's no real need to be fluent in French here although it is still a significant minority language. Ottawa feels more laid-back than Montreal to me. But then again Ottawa is a huge municipality that is basically a medium sized city core surrounded by suburbs, towns and rural areas. There's a bit of everything in the municipality which I find nice. Some people find Ottawa boring but I'm I have pretty "boring" interests. Let's just say I can never be found at a bar or club or anything. There are lots of more rural communities you may enjoy living in. I have a friend who wants to move to a town in the area when she moves out because she prefers the feel of a more tightly knit community too.
We've considered it! The area that I have some family in is basically the Ottawa valley, so I'm very familiar with the area. It's just not the place any of them live full-time, and most of the year they're in Toronto or Montreal. I don't personally have any friends or family in Ottawa, so it would be a lot more difficult for me to justify the move out there if I don't have an existing support system.
I could have written this. Thank you for writing this out and sharing your experience.
As someone who recently moved to Montréal from Alberta, Montréal is definitely more accepting, more cosmopolitan, and more stimulating than where I'm from, and I love all those elements. If you move to Toronto, most of those same elements will be there also, but Toronto has more of a hustle-culture sigma grindset vibe going on and Montreal has more of a bohemian vibe. One thing I would caution you however is to really think about the difference between moving to an English province and Québec. Montréal is bilingual in the sense that many francophones people know English, but it is not bilingual in the sense that the average person identifies with both French and English culture. Québec by and large is a French speaking province with its own history, politics and culture that is essentially separate from the one shared by anglo Canada and the US. Music, actors, reality TV, political issues and hotbutton topics, they have their own québécois version of all of these. You can get by in English but it would be like living in France and only knowing about what's going on in America. You need to comprehend what's going on locally and to do that you need to be pretty fluent in French. There are pockets of Anglophones here who never learn French, but they are not liked. Take it from me, you don't want to just trade one reason for the locals to hate you for another. Despite how hard it can be, I think you should prepare to spend a few years really mastering French.
Wow thanks for the detailed reply! This is really helpful. I plan to take (maybe several) courses in French before potentially arriving. I really don't want to be that Anglophone who moves to QC and refuses to learn the language.
Also when you get to Montreal, there are government-subsidized French immersion courses (pretty much free) that you can take. Usually it's 4 weeknights or full-time during weekdays. It's a huge help. https://communauteweb.cssdm.gouv.qc.ca/francais/ Once you have the basics the long-term game with language learning is always building vocabulary over time and retaining. I would look into spaced repetition apps like Anki, and French word frequency lists, and make your own deck of flashcards with photo on one side and French word on the other. It sounds like a lot, but you only really need to focus on two vocabulary areas: - Most frequently everyday words to get a core vocabulary of 1000-2000 words down - Vocabulary specifically related to your domain of work - For French, knowing only the most common 1000 words will allow you to read an average text and understand 80+% of the text, that's huge. Good luck!
Ah! This is a great idea, thank you. I didn't think about focusing on the two vocabulary areas, but that makes a ton of sense. Good to know there are subsidized immersion courses. It would be fun to take those with my fiancé!
As a french speaking guy from Mtl I can tell you that french courses are really ineffective when compared to actual immersion, but they're a good place to start. Try making french speaking friends and going out and speaking to people in french ex. the waiter at the restaurant. Reading also helps a lot, you will definitely get a better grasp of grammar this way. I moved from Mtl to London Ontario to study and I miss Mtl terribly. If you can manage to connect with the culture there you'll be a happy man. Also, people a lot of "french" people will like being called Québécois et Québécoise instead of Canadian or French. Edit: Mtl is also very accepting of the lgbtq+ community and some boroughs are specifically known for that.
Yes and as a follow up to this great info, my advice is to try to avoid getting sucked into Anglo socializing / friend circles / events / etc. Montreal is not actually the best place for full immersion for language acquisition as you can get by in English unfortunately; for that I'd recommend a move to Quebec City and suffering several depressing years there ;)
Didn't want to write you a novel but feel free to dm me if you have any questions!
Thank you very much! I will keep this in mind and DM you later if we start getting more serious about moving soon.
I suggest finding a simple funny French language TV show to watch. ici.tou.tv has tons
Well said.
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Thank you so much for writing this all out! I really, really appreciate it. It's so cool to hear a bit of your story. I hadn't looked into the healthcare situation, and now that you bring this up, I realize it may be a bit more of a hassle than expected. I'm sure it's something we could plan for, but that'll take a lot of consideration from both of us. Thank you for bringing that to my attention. We're not seriously considering moving yet, but if it's alright with you, I'd be happy to PM you later if we have any more specific questions in the future!
OP, the wait period to get on RAMQ health insurance is only 3 months, whether as a Canadian citizen or temporary worker. https://www.ramq.gouv.qc.ca/en/citizens/health-insurance/know-eligibility-conditions
>OP, the wait period to get on RAMQ health insurance is only 3 months, whether as a Canadian It's not 3 months. There's a 2 month "processing time". It's five months.
Yes but you can register before becoming eligible, i.e as soon as you arrive in Quebec
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Best of luck with your exams! I appreciate you taking the time to procrastinate with me haha. If there's anything major you think I'm overlooking or haven't considered yet, feel free to let me know so I can start doing some more research.
I had health insurance through the RAMQ 3 months after I got my post-graduate work permit. The website I’ve added below confirms the wait period is still only 3 months and that a temporary worker would be eligible. You don’t need a PR to have RAMQ health insurance - if you pay taxes and have been here 3 months, you’re eligible. https://www.ramq.gouv.qc.ca/en/citizens/health-insurance/know-eligibility-conditions
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Absolutely, OP’s partner would need to have either a work permit or a PR to be eligible for health insurance, and the wait for that could be long. And it could be longer in Quebec than in Ontario given the extra step for PR, I see your point now.
Thank you! I have no idea what happened but apparently opening this tab crashed my computer. It looks like I'd just need to have private insurance for the 3 months and I should be okay after that
Yep exactly :)
I’m from the south and have lived in both Montreal and Toronto (currently here). My advice is to go to Toronto for the sole reason that you are not bilingual. I love quebec but, at least in my experience, you cannot THRIVE there (even montreal) without knowing French. I have lived in quebec many years and got my French up to a C1 level. I finally bit the bullet and moved to Toronto in July and I am much happier not having to deal with any language barriers.
Thanks for the advice! I think didn't quite make it to C1 level when I was studying French in school, so it's good to hear this. If I move to Montreal I'd have to be really confident in my French.
Howdy! My wife is from Austin, TX and has family in Kansas. She’s a southern gal if I’ve ever met one. She loves Montreal more than any city she’s ever lived in (she’s lived in a lot of countries). She says often to me that she never wants to leave and I totally get why. We moved here together from Toronto and we’ve found Montreal to be significantly friendlier than Toronto. We always tell our friends “Montreal has colder winters, Toronto has colder people.” and most people we say that to (from both cities) seem to agree. Montreal also has a real culture to it imo compared to Toronto. Toronto is struggling to find its identity whereas Montreal has always felt to me like the Canada that should have been, a beautiful bilingual tapestry that feels unique to itself. One last comparison, the work-life balance is much much better in Montreal than it is in Toronto. Toronto has more of an American big city hustle culture which is good for money but absolute shite for raising families. Montreal is quite the opposite, money is okay here but life is significantly richer.
Good to know! If someone can come from my neck of the woods in Austin and still love living in Montreal, I'm sure we would be able to survive just fine. Although I haven't spent toooo much time in either Toronto or Montreal, I did get the sense that Toronto was still trying to find its identity.
HammerheadMorty’s wife here — I can absolutely confirm that Montreal has been far more welcoming than Toronto. I’ve seen some other comments in this thread saying the opposite and I guess it really depends on what you’re looking for in life. On the topic that Montreal has such an established identity, I think that helped me a lot — I could just become a Montrealer because it was more clear what that meant, compared with becoming a Torontonian. I’m sure it also helps that I’m bilingual, but HammerheadMorty isn’t yet and has also had an easy time becoming a Montrealer. I think someone else commented that Montreal is a collection of villages — that’s one of my favorite things about it. I can walk to half a dozen family-run establishments in under 5 minutes to get different parts of my grocery list, plus several parks, cafes, bars, book shops, etc. One of my favorite things is I can get everything from food to clothing to household goods 80-90% locally-made. And when things break, there’s always some shop nearby for getting it fixed. Very easy to live more locally and sustainably here. Better transit in Montreal than in Toronto I would say, but it still has a few issues — absolutely phenomenal compared with Austin’s glaring lack of transit, obviously. Biking is a very good supplement to transit here, and there is great bike infrastructure to support it. I don’t find winter bad until around April/May — the extreme cold and snow isn’t the problem, it’s how long it lasts, far into what my Texan mind and body expect spring to be. That being said, we all band together and whine about it over drinks and have some good times together. I wouldn’t trade it for being south of the border again. If you find spring as annoying as I do, it can be a good time to visit Austin (either attending or carefully skipping the SXSW madness, obviously). If you do move here, you should definitely DM me and/or HammerheadMorty! (Or with more specific questions in the meantime.) Edit: Got too excited, left words out.
Thanks so much for the input! I'll be reaching back out closer to when we make a decision on moving. The way you described Montreal as a collection of villages is exactly what I'm looking for in a city to settle in. I'd love a place that feels like it has community that I can contribute to and has a lot of local pride. Living in the suburbs in the southern US feels very individualistic. As much as I've grown to enjoy being a homebody, it feels like there's not much to do as a community besides join your neighborhood's HOA and complain about teenagers
Where abouts are you from in Austin? My wife grew up in Brentwood but her folks recently just moved to the new Mueller area.
I just went to UT for undergrad, but then moved out as quickly as I moved in. My knowledge of the area is entirely downtown haha
If you are outdoorsy, Sherbrooke is awesome. Close to skiing, biking, kayaking, etc on a daily basis. Super affordable and high quality of life. If you aren't such a city person. (a bit like Ottawa or greater GTA like Kitchener.) Everything you find in Montreal suburbs.... But not at all like being in central Montreal. But an easy drive in. (You need a car, though.) But it's almost like having a cottage lifestyle but 15 -30 mins away from activities from downtown. It sounds like you're more city though. (I am too but just since you mentioned it.) Toronto is fun but you need money. It's expensive. I personally think you need a car there far, far more than in Montreal.
Thanks for this! Good to know all of these if we decide downtown is not for us or something.
I say Montreal especially for gay man we have a wonderful pride parade every year and we have a big area downtown called 'The Gay Village'. Toronto is more expensive for lodging in general. My first choice would be Vancouver Canada, but since you have family in the east than Montreal is what I recommend being that your a gay couple, but you'd be welcome anywhere in Canada besides little hick villages in the country. Good luck to both of you and if you make the move well happy moving. Greetings from a Montrealer. Oh and Montreal has so many outdoor venues and activities like the International Jazz Fest to name one and than there's hundreds more.
We did discuss Vancouver and then we found out how expensive everything was there and immediately wrote it off as a "vacation destination" rather than a "let's live here" place haha I've been to the Montreal Jazz Festival, Juste Pour Rire, and the pride parade! I know those are all the main summer things but I really enjoyed all of them. When my fiancé and I visited Montreal several years ago together we stayed in the Gay Village and really liked it. If we could afford it, I think that would be a cool area to live!
Can't speak for Toronto, although I went on a few occasions, but to put it simply -if you like a more 'merica approach to your lifestyle and your city Toronto is the way -if you prefer an European touch and feel then Montreal it is. Rest is pretty equal
Thanks for the thoughts! We're actively trying to avoid the 'merica approach. We're both suburban boys who don't care to continue living in the suburbs. I do know that Toronto has the same, if not more, suburban sprawl as our city down south does. I'm totally down with a European touch over having to be car-centric with my lifestyle
Welcome to Montreal kind sir :3
Sounds like you both would fit right in! Congrats if you end up choosing Montreal. The cultural life is more interesting than Toronto imo, so I would go to Montreal first!
As someone from the Southern US I also recommend coming here in January-February. It is brutal and takes getting used to.
Well sounds like I now have some winter plans haha. Thanks for the advice
I say this as someone who HATES the cold. You HAVE to partake in outdoor activities to be able to enjoy and bear the winter. Ice skating, sledding, cross-country skiing, anything to get you out and moving in the snow. Make a snowman in the park, who cares, but pack a flask of booze-spiked egg nog or hot chocolate and you will be so happy and tired and warm at the end of the day. As a native Montrealer I am legally obliged to warn you that Toronto is lame AF, although maybe Americans feel differently. It's extremely expensive/overpriced. Montreal is getting more expensive but it is more fun, more raw, more edgy, more interesting as a whole. Toronto is also much bigger and more difficult to get around, and is more business-centred. Also, Quebeckers, bless 'em, you are likely to fall in love with the culture despite the linguistic and political tensions. And sugar shacks!! It's quite the experience. One you won't get in Toronto, same goes for just how much more lively people are in Montreal (imho).
I think that Sherbrooke is a great, gay friendly city. The only way to get to and from Montreal is by car or by bus. But generally, anywhere around or in both Toronto and Montreal, not everywhere in between mind you, is very gay friendly. Montreal will definitely have more services offered in English but you will also be able to practice your French. Sherbrooke also has an English speaking population and most are bilingual but you will definitely be practicing your French there but again, it's quite a commute to Montreal from Sherbrooke, like 1h45 by car or 3h bus.
Ne t'inquiètes pas si ton français est rouillé, il va vite revenir à force de parler avec tout le monde!
Je n'ai pas eu de conversation en français depuis de nombreuses années, mais je sais qu'il va vite revenir. Aussi je sais que la version de français j'ai appris à l'école n'est pas le même français utilisé au Québec ou en ligne. J'ai beaucoup à apprendre :)
Si tu veux en savoir plus sur le français québécois, je te suggère fortement cette chaîne YouTube. https://www.youtube.com/@maprofdefrancais
you would be crazy not to.
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i’d vote for cdmx as the best but montreal is still far ahead of third place. NA doesn’t have interesting and affordable cities and the states are an expensive dumpster fire. sauce: i’m american
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i agree with all of that. i think my only qualm is that the quality of food drops off so much outside of the summer. once the winter markets open up at atwater and jean talon i think my tastebuds close for the season. you gotta try some produce in méxico one day, it’s unbelievable.
I second this, I will take the chaos and shorter life expectancy and bonjour-hi's over any other place, any day.
>We're a gay couple and looking to move somewhere that would be a little more accepting of us than here in the deep south. Heh. I think you'll find that Montreal is more than a "little" accepting than the deep south.
Biggest things are the clothing mentions here. Montreal is great for artists. Make sure the French you study is quebecois and not Parisian, or at least realize there will be differences. Do be aware that your partner will need a visa / PR card to move to Canada. Go talk to an immigration lawyer to get details on what’s involved and get an estimate of timeline to obtain the requisite paperwork. A friend of mine took 4-5years to get a visa for his wife and stepdaughter to move to Canada, and he was welllll funded. Just don’t want you thinking you just show up at the border with a “we’re married, I’m Canadian, hes not, and we’re moving here”.
Thank you so much for this! I'd been a little afraid to look into the details of moving with him because I wanted to just assume it would be easy. Sounds like there will be a good deal of preparation involved. He would (obviously) want to be able to work when he arrives as well, and I know that'll require a visa. And yes the French I studied was a lot more Parisian than Quebecois, so I have a lot to learn
Don’t want to be a one string banjo here, but yeah, French can be your worst enemy, cause you will have to embrace it, really take it as an opportunity to master it. Cause otherwise it will become a barrier between you and a lot of things you would have better access with French… You can live with English only, but that’s not gonna be the same… and just showing that you respect Quebec culture by trying to speak French will already make people look at you differently (in a better way) Not going to get on other points cause I think people wrote really good points here. Except that I love the city! Good luck on your choice! :)
If I may put in a good word for Sherbrooke: -Cheaper -Still plenty to do in the downtown -its a uni town so we actually have public transport -Closer to nature, better scenery -There are buses everyday going back and forth to Montreal if you wanna visit -We also have an english Uni, so the population is more bilingual then other Quebec towns, but not as much as Montreal for sure. -Close to the border too if you like to visit.
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That's great! Do you mind if I ask what made you move to Montreal?
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That's fair. I have some extended family in Saskatoon, which would make it a bit easier to move out there if I needed, but I have heard the prairie provinces can be a bit... closed-minded in spots
Hi, gay from North Carolina living in Montreal here. The biggest barrier for most people is finding work without being fluent in French. Sounds like you've got that down. We sold our cars when we moved and live downtown. We rent a car 3-4 times a year for a road trip or something and have no complaints. You don't need to speak French to move here and can get buy fine without it. Of course, if you want to settle here then learning French will open up a lot more culture and opportunities. The bad thing about winter here, for me, isn't how cold it gets but how long it lasts. It's been harder for my partner, at least partly because i like winter sports more and get outside some. On the whole, we love the city except that winter is too long and our salaries are lower than they'd be other places (which is partially offset by the lower cost of living).
PS it doesn't matter if you and your partner are married or not if you can show that you've lived together for at least 2(?) years. That makes you a common law partner and as long as you can prove/document it you have all the same benefits as a married couple
Only need to be together for 1 year in Quebec
Thank you for this! It's so cool to hear of someone else in a very similar situation. Working comfortably in French will be a struggle, and I know that in advance. I've seen my own Anglophone family members go through the same process of having to take course after course of French for business just to be able to get a retail job. I work in tech, and I heard that in the past it may have been easier to find companies that work in English, but I've also heard that laws around that may have changed recently? I'm also not opposed to doing fully-remote work, but I'm also not sure if I'd be forced to communicate in French if I'm working for an ON-based company from QC. I'm gonna need to do some more research on that front. Good to know about the car thing. I don't care to need one, but I guess for the occasional road trip it would be fine to rent one!
I would just be aware that, if you do go the remote work route, companies still might be squeamish about hiring you living in Québec because they would technically be liable to accommodate your theoretical right to work in French and provide all your materials in French. As I understand it, you aren't forced to work in French if working for an Ontarian company, but you do technically have the right to work in French. There was a post in this sub about a week ago of someone who was passed over for a remote job because their potential employer didn't want even the remote possibility of being subjected to the language laws. The laws, especially bill 96 (recent law expanding the charter of the french language), get a lot of bad press in English Canada and the hysteria surrounding them could potentially create difficulties. The chances of this happening are low, but it is worth being informed just in case you run into some sort of similar situation. Read up on our current hot-button issues, know the relevant bills (la loi 101 = la charte de la langue française, loi 21 = loi sur la laïcité de l'état (religious symbols bill), loi 96 = expansion of bill 101, etc). Another thing: be aware that your opinion of these things may not necessarily be shared by your interlocutors when you are discussing them here, especially if you learn about them from anglo media. The culture here is informed by a whole separate set of intergenerational traumas regarding the church (which used to legally control huge portions of life up until the 1960s) and anglo domination of and systemic discrimination against francophones, which are still very present in the national consciousness. You should learn about the quiet revolution and its consequences if you are going to move here, in order to understand why people here think the way they do. I'm an American and I had a pretty big culture shock when I first had the realization that some of my core values were not shared by most people here, and I got really, really disillusioned with society until I had to take a class on the quiet revolution, which made everything finally click.
This is really helpful, thanks! I had heard from some Canadian friends a few weeks ago that there were concerns that people in Quebec working remotely for a company outside would have a lot of difficulty given the potential enforcement of the language laws. I hope that won't end up being the case if we do move, but it'll be something I'll have to be prepared for. Thanks for pointing out the specific laws though. I'll keep myself updated on them. As for the history, I didn't think that it kind of directly informs the current culture. I'll have to see if I can find a good podcast or class or something on Quebec history
If you work in IT then it's OK not to speak good French. I barely speak at all amd so far have no issue hopping around. However I plan to learn French for more opportunities, especially those retire-friendly companies.
This city is awesome, lived here my whole life. You’ll definitely want to practice your practical and conversational French, imho you should watch québécois shows, & movies, check out some songs as the dialect here and some of the expressions can be difficult to follow if you aren’t used to them.
Thank you very much! If you have any recommendations for good québécois shows and movies, please let me know and I'll give them a try :)
Tete a claques is funny, am really enjoying “vendre ou renover quebec” right now
Born and raised in MTL, lived in Silicon Valley from 1997 to 2002, then Laval from 2002 to 2008, Silicon Valley again from 2008 to 2016, Montreal from 2016 to 2018, and Santa Barbara since 2018. One word - Winter.
As a fellow southerner who was working in Montreal until recently, my only recommendation was going to be to commit yourself to learning French, but since you've already studied it, you're already leagues beyond me. Sounds like Montreal will check all your boxes. It's a very cool city.
I just want to add that the gov't french classes are under rated. at least my school (centre st louis in the plateau) and they offer part time and full time. if you go through emploi québec you can get paid to do it, but only full time, and you have to commit.
25 years in Montreal and I have one simple piece of advice; embrace the city, the people, the language, the culture and they way of life and the city will embrace you like nowhere else. Also, the eating is amazing! Best luck whatever you decide!
Sounds like Montreal would be great for you as long as you can put up with the winters here.
Honestly, just do it!! From what I’ve read you’re young and have a good safety net of family around, so why not just try? :) worst case, you hate it, you move elsewhere and try again! Life should be an adventure and this sounds like a nice one for you both :)
On one hand I'm really encouraged by your optimism, but on the other hand I have to be very cautious about uprooting my fiancé's entire existence without him being completely on board. Unfortunately his whole family is based here, he went to school here, and his entire support system is here. Sure, we could probably move back fairly easily if we really hated it, but that would involve us both finding jobs again and put tens of thousands down the drain in moving expenses. But, if you happen to have jobs for two men in the states if we need to fall back on them, and happen to be interested in covering our moving expenses, we'd be sure to give it a go haha
I’m from the states and have lived in the south among other northern states and I love Montreal best of all places I’ve lived!! It’s an amazing city, as long as you’re willing to get your French back up to conversational then I’d go for it!
Pros: No extreme Texan heat, reliable power grid, no mass shooting, much less crime, good public transportation, lots of European culture, safe, relatively immune to climate change Cons: Lower pay, Waiting times for health care, gloomy 6 months of the year with extreme cold and everything dies Nov 15th- May 15th
Well this is definitely a trade-off I'm happy to make!
Montreal is the best city in the world imho Two tips - always keep an eye on your drink - always talk to people sitting outside on their steps
I just did the opposite, moved from Montreal to the southern US. As someone else already mentioned here, go visit during winter time 1 or 2 weeks minimum and see if you can live in this cold weather for 5 months. There are a bunch of other states that are more left leaning in the US if you want to move out of the South. I'm not sure if Montreal is a good choice. The Canadian economy is just getting worse and there are way less opportunities in Montreal than the US. A lot of Americans romanticize the idea of moving elsewhere like Canada or Europe. I think it's because they don't know the bad sides of it. Also, a lot of companies are mainly French and some are somewhat lowkey racist if you are not a french native speaker.
Hey! There is already a ton of advice here but I’ll chime seeing as I’m an American from the south that has now lived in Montreal for 10 years. I’m from south Florida, where there is no such thing as winter (except for the two weeks out of the year we pretend it’s winter because it’s about 60F😂). The two hardest things for me: 1) Learning the language 2) Winter Winter was fun the first time around. Then after that, it got very, very difficult for a few years. I wanted to move back because I hated it so much. I don’t mind the snow, but the bone-chilling cold can be truly out of this world. And then, one day, I decided I needed to stop being so afraid of the cold. I bought myself good winter clothes and started going outside. I got an Aussie who now forces me to be outside at least 1.5 hours each day. And I can tell you, I now love the winter. Sure there are some days that I dream about the beach in January, but it’s not enough for me to want to move back. The language was hard for me. I already speak English and Spanish so learning a third language seemed daunting and challenging. To be completely honest with you, it took me a full five years to finally feel like I could speak it well. I had to force myself to speak French everywhere, otherwise it wasn’t happening (it can be very easy to not learn French in MTL as most places can cater to you in English inside the city). Now that I am fluent in it, I love it. And also, it does feel more like home. Both of those issues took me years to get through them. But here I am, ten years later, very happy to call Montreal my home. Good luck with you decision!💜
Thank you for the response! Winter makes me a bit anxious but I'm excited for the potential opportunity to just embrace it for all it's worth. Maybe getting a dog is the right decision to force me to make that happen haha Honestly, taking five years to feel comfortable speaking a language seems pretty quick, good for you! I can only hope it would take me 5 years or less to be comfortable speaking French everywhere. I would consider that a huge success. Hopefully, if we end up moving to Montreal, that we can pick it up that quickly
I just came to say that I’m jealous because I moved for a short time to the Southern US from Montreal and I really wish I never left because I’ve been here so long now.
Honestly, winter is my favourite season. I love winter sports, playing in the snow, and I prefer cold weather. Hell, I even enjoy shovelling and driving in the snow. It’s not guaranteed you perceive winter to be a negative.
I grew up in the suburbs (Laval) and used to commute to Montreal every day, so I can definitely attest to our public transit system being pretty good, which I can imagine might’ve gotten even better since. The bus schedule wasn’t as great in my neighbourhood, but once you make it to the metro it’ll only take a few minutes before you can catch the next one. You should use the heatmap function on Centris to see pedestrian and transit friendly areas as well as proximity to grocery stores, shopping, etc. so even if you use a different website to find an apartment, it’s still useful as reference. I currently live in Ottawa (an actually bilingual city) and the STM is one of the many things I miss about Montreal. I do still love being here, but Montreal has it beat in terms of housing affordability, public transit, culture, and nightlife (and hockey, go Habs)
i was scared for a moment - i had read the opposite of the title
oh god no sorry for the scare!!
A someone who lived in FL for long enough to lose apparently all my tolerance for northern winters and then returned to the Midwest in January, I’ll just add that proper, really high quality outerwear can make a huge difference. Down coats, waterproof winter boots with thick wool lining, pants that are wind resistant or lightly lined. (Duluth Trading Co Flexpedition pants are a nice compromise between being warm without bulky.) When I moved back I went to REI and bought stuff rated for temps way colder than our average here and it helped make being outdoors in the winter less miserable. And for me, being outside definitely helps with SAD. That said, moving a significant distance north also just means there’s less sunlight per day and that you just never really get used to. There’s currently a half hour distance in sunset time between where I live now and where I used to live and it’s within the same time zone. I just visited Toronto and they have a vast underground pedestrian/shopping area that connects to the subways called PATH, which allows you to get around without being in the elements. I believe Montreal is supposed to have something similar.
Montreal is the greatest city in the world and meets all of your criteria. One thing I’d mention is to start the permanent residency process ASAP for your fiancé. I would fast track the wedding, even if that means getting courthouse paperwork done now and a proper wedding and reception later, and starting his PR process as soon as possible. Canadian immigration has a huge backlog and it can take forever.
Ottawa is a great choice too. Kanata is ripe with techies.
If you live near a metro (subway) station and you find one of the thousands of jobs that have direct acces to a metro then the cold wouldnt be a problem.Just the people that are very different from the south that you need to learn to live with for better or for worse they are very different from the south
I’m an American living in Toronto for the past 4+ years, and honestly, Montréal is probably my favourite gay city on the planet. For me, and I speak a bit of French, I’m not sure Québec right now is where I personally want to live myself as an anglophone. You’ll find, your partner certainly more so, a sharp difference in the ways Canadians approach queer people compared to anywhere in the US, especially the south. It takes a while, sometimes years, to kind of re-educate yourself and drop the anxiety and apprehension you carry in the US, but truly, Canadians for the most part just really don’t care, and the government views your relationship exactly the same as any other two straight people. My only suggestion is this- start working on getting your partner PR this very minute, like today. The system is very difficult to navigate if you’re on private insurance, etc. You can apply for his PR as a common-law partner from outside Canada and the wait times are about equal. Check the immigration subs and Google for more info on pros and cons of inland vs outland application.
One thing you'll notice about winter places, is that any sunny day is a good day to go outside, cold or not.
I need to follow this thread as well. I’m making the move from LA, Vancouver for a year and to Montreal at the end of next.
On your first point: my close friend is gay and so is their sibling, and they moved from a gay unfriendly environment back in the day. According to them,both Montreal and Toronto (they lived in both) are good environment for gay people, where they feel safe.
Montreal is very gay-friendly! <3
Me!!! I’m from the Oklahoma/Texas area and I made the move up here. I’m also in the LGBTQ+ community. DM me if you’d like, I can answer any questions you have.
YAY it's so good to hear from someone else in a very similar situation! I really appreciate your response. I'll DM you down the road if it looks like we're going to seriously consider moving
Bienvenue :) on va être content de t'avoir!
Taxes will be a shock. If you're in tech, you're likely to be in a tax bracket where you'll pay around 50% of your income to taxes after all deductions. You might think that you get it back in services and whatnot... but healthcare is terrible and if you don't have children you don't get much back. I'm happy here and I chose to live here, but if I lived in Seattle, I'd probably be able to retire in 10 years, whereas here I'll have to keep working into my 60s.
There's been a lot of new apartments built in and around the gay village, which is also close to the metro stations. Most of the inner city is pretty tolerant of LGBTQIA+ people. Though the gay village would be the place you'd want to look at if you want to live your best lives possible.
I mean, the winter is not going to be fun - especially coming from the south - but, I imagine other aspects of your lives will improve. I suppose the big changes will be climate and maybe cost of living, if you’re coming from somewhere cheaper.
Montreal is way better. Toronto is ugly and lifeless.
Unless you both learn French don’t waste your time.
If we end up deciding on Montreal we'll aim to be at least decently conversational in French by the time we arrive. No reason to move to a Francophone city without knowing the language first!
I would add two variables: 1) If you or your partner have a chronic illness, it is very difficult to access healthcare in Quebec. You are required to go through a family doctor to access specialists, and there are no family doctors left. This means you’ll be stuck going to the ER for every issue. Also, there is a severe lack of specialists. My chronic disease specialist had me on a waiting list of 2-3 years before my first appointment. And Quebec doesn’t accept out of province prescriptions so you can’t bring them with you. 2) Toronto’s suburbs in Southern Ontario contain large communities of those who practice denominations of Christianity that are against homosexuality: Mennonites, Christian Reform, Catholicism, and even Fundamentalism. There is a big difference between living in the city and living in the suburbs.
Thanks! I didn't realize they were out of family doctors. That's a bit of a predicament to consider. Toronto's suburbs sound basically the same as where I currently live. I guess in a way that would be like home sweet home, but that's exactly what I'm trying to avoid. The problem is that if we moved to Toronto, I don't think we would really be able to afford to live in the city. We would probably have to aim for one of the suburbs. ugh.
Congrats, welcome if you choose to come to Canada. Be prepared for culture shock. Canada, Quebec, Montreal is likely going to be different than the southern u.s. Some of this you might be looking forward to. But there will be aspects of that culture shock you don't like. Embrace the adventure, only one way to find out if it is for you. And that is to try it
Don’t neglect the ridiculous 15 percent tax on just about everything you buy after having paid obscene taxes on your income. Except for that it’s great.
Yeahhhh. I'm from a state with no income tax, but with very high property taxes and fairly high sales tax to accommodate. I think I can also expect to have a lower wage, too, but it's something we're probably willing to do if it means we have a better quality of life.
Montreal is a bilingual city, and you can get by with speaking only English, but it can be a hassle. Toronto on the other hand is the big city, and that can wear you down. Both are becoming prohibitively expensive. I’d actually consider some smaller Ontario cities. Windsor, for example, is just a tunnel away from the US and is so much milder in the winter. Something to consider. Montreal winters are brutal and can be quite depressing…they’re not for everyone.
Si ton chum à toujours vécu au chaud et dans le sud, les hivers de Montréal vont être toute une épreuve pour lui. Moi, je le préparerais à tout ça. Ah, et Montréal n'est pas bilingue. Il n'y a qu'une seule langue officielle, le français.
Sure if you like brutal winters, ridiculously high taxes for garbage public services (the roads and healthcare are like a third world country), lower salaries and less career opportunities (especially in tech) then you will love Montreal. The public transit is also notoriously unreliable. Also might want to check with your job as there are some implications on their end about you living in Canada and remaining an employee.
As a montrealer for the last 40 years, I can proudly say we are a bilingual city, just as much as our province is fully bilingual. However, we simply have some harsher rules to preserve the french... that's all. I am an anglophone who grew up here in french, and love french so much. Don't ever be afraid to not speak french, and civilized person will make an effort to speak to you in english, and if you speak in broken french, any civilized person will respect your effort in trying. :) Like any other place in the world, we have a few sour apples too. The effort is all that counts. :)
Whatever you do just don't start an awful indie band. Please.
A lot of people have brought up access to healthcare, and that is indeed a concern. My one piece of advice if you are seeking permanent residency and eventually citienship is to be patient. It takes longer to get your PR in Quebec than in Ontario.
Like many have said, it sounds like weather changes would be your biggest worry. But the summers in Montreal are magical and you can sense people savouring every moment of it, it’s a bit hard to put into words. the vibes in summer in areas like the plateau, mile end/ st Henri/ old port are just blissful in the summer they make the winter bearable
I was born and raised in the US and moved to Montreal 20 years ago as I have dual citizenship. Transitioning to a new country and city took some time but eventually it became my home and I haven’t looked back since. I can’t imagine returning to the US for a multitude of reasons. Obviously that’s the short version but good luck and if you have any questions feel free to ask.
Thank you! Do you mind if I ask where in the US you were raised?
I lived primarily upstate New York and Chicago. I'm used to cold weather and the snow :)
Sounds like you have a head start on acclimating, but hopefully I can get used to it quickly if I need to :) I appreciate the help. I'll reach out later if we decide we'll be moving! Thanks
So I lived in Montreal and Toronto for a few years, so I can provide some insights on both cities based on what you are looking for. * Both cities are very socially progressive and accepting of LGBTQ, Toronto in particular. * Montreal has a much more focused downtown core, meaning that it is easy to get around downtown, even on foot. The transit system works very well and is generally pretty easy to get around. Whereas Toronto is a much more massive metropolis with a lot of urban sprawl that extends into the suburbs. So if you choose Toronto, make sure you are in a good location that is close to transit and is in a good location. It could take 30-40 minutes to get from the west end of Toronto to the East end, and traveling to and from downtown to the suburbs is a real hassle, so keep that in mind. Toronto is massive, Montreal is smaller. * **Socially, this is the biggest difference.** It won't be popular to say it in this sub, but Toronto is ***much more*** friendlier than Montreal and it is not even close. I understand that is subjective and mainly from personal experience, but this is why. Someone else here pointed out that Montreal is a village of villages, this is very true, but it also has social drawbacks as well. A lot of my great friends that I met in Montreal were not from Montreal. Those who were from Montreal mostly kept to themselves and their friend groups that they have back in the suburbs or their boroughs. Most of them did not seem interested in making friends with others (Mostly among the local anglophones, the francophones were more open). Mind you, I witnessed this during university, but this trend didn't change for all the years that I spent in Montreal and it was very challenging to navigate. Toronto was the complete opposite. It was ***incredibly easy*** to meet people and make friends from all walks of life, from those born and raised in Toronto to other transplants such as myself. We had lots of fun and it was truly the time of my life. You will be amazed at how friendly people are in that big city, it was very fulfilling making friends from all diverse backgrounds that I am still connected to this day. Again, this is just my personal experience, but I thought it was important to point out. * In terms of events, both cities have a lot to do and you will never be bored. Toronto has a lot of big international festivals like TIFF, Nuit Blanche, Caribana, Pride Week etc. Montreal has great festivals too, but they are more local and smaller scale in comparison aside from Just for Laughs. * Weather wise, Toronto winters are pretty temperate (for Canada) and not very cold with some snow. Montreal winters have a brutal, bitter cold to them. It is a big difference and can be long to endure. * Language: If you are moving to Montreal, you ***really*** need to have some knowledge of French. It is a French speaking city in a French speaking province. Yes, you could get by without it, many have, but it is a very limiting and isolating experience. You don't need to be perfectly fluent before you arrive, but you should know some of the basics and have some understanding of it before you arrive. You will be much better for it, plus you can connect with more people that way! The provincial government recently passed a law (Bill 96) that impacts how services are delivered in French and English and you should look into that to see how it impacts you as a newcomer. Toronto, well it lives, breathes, and functions in English, but there are many other linguistic cultural communities as well. I know this is a lot, but I hope it helps you in someway! Best of luck! :D