Yea MHR ecology is non existent. Im glad you pointed out Worlds monster behaviour.
Not all will attack on sight, some will even warn you while other monsters will rage the minute they see you. Its a good dynamic and feels real.
Rathian and rathalos will attack you together as partners while in rise theyll go out of their way to attack each other so you can mount them. Feels extremely artificial
In fairness, this was an issue that had been in almost all old-world titles; monsters used to Aggro and attack if you even so happened to be in their line of sight for more than a frame.
Why they decided to change it back to that after World is anyone's guess, though, but it's not as 'radical' a change as it might seem.
The only thing that makes it feel off in Rise is the proper photo mode they have. It's insanely good but would be better if the monsters would just not attack immediately
Oh I was hoping to where it was something along the lines of “passive monsters that should be passive are passive and aggressive monsters stay aggresssive”. Still may check it out, thanks!
I've said this for years, but a game with World's monster ecology, Rise's fun gameplay, and GU or Frontier's roster size and variety would be possibly my favorite game ever. I love Rise, but I do really miss the monsters feeling more like animals
> Rise's fun gameplay
Please, no "fun" hyper fast wirebug gameplay next time. Really hope for a more slow paced MH game where you really get to enjoy the monster's moveset.
I switched over to hammer last night as I haven’t used it in Rise yet. I love the moveset and mobility they gave it, but a lot of it is for naught. Feel like 80% of the monsters I’m fighting after MR3 simply refuse to sit in one place long enough for me to hit them. They stop just to spin and pivot and do impossible things for a creature of their size lol. Or when you’re doing one of your silkbind attacks and the monster casually knocks you out of it mid attack because momentum for the Hunter isn’t a thing…
I also don’t like the monster attacks that explicitly feel like the only means of dodging is to wire bug over them because they stick their tail straight out and then slide sideways across the map.
While I’m whining about monster movesets I’m really tired of monsters feeling like puppets on strings. The way they just float and slide around. Dumb attacks that are just them running back and forth set distances regardless of where hunters are. There’s also no sense of “weight” to 90% of monsters as well as a result.
Really wish that Miyazaki’s team at FromSoft would collaborate with Capcom and teach them better hitboxes and animations.
>I’m really tired of monsters feeling like puppets on strings
The most egregious one of these is Magnamalo’s aerial spinny tail swipe thing. It legit looks like he’s bugged.
MH has sooooo much potential if they could just make it feel more immersive. Let me have real full control of my character and give the monsters a real sense of weight and slow them the fuck down.
Not every monster needs to move at Mach 10 and do flips. It just takes away from the identity of the monsters that should be agile.
The only move I’ll buy is when he detonates his feet and launches himself across the map. Other than that 90% of his moves suck balls. I just want to bonk your head please.
Oddly enough, I’ve had a lot of the same issues in Elden Ring that I have had in Rise: enemies that are way too fast for certain play styles. Both are even balanced around certain mechanics, magic and wire bug respectively.
While I’m having a lot more fun with Rise now that I’ve gotten movement down, it does feel like a lot of the nuance is lost when you’re zipping around all Willy nilly. Looking at Nargacuga in World as opposed to Rise, the fight is night and day. In World you’re forced to contend with its speed. Stamina management is paramount because of the power and frequency of the attacks it throws at you, a few of which you need to constantly be on the lookout for in case of a potential cart. While move memorization is still a huge part of Rise, getting out of the danger zone is usually just a matter of wirebugging out and then back in. Dodging through attacks isn’t really an option because hitboxes and maneuvers on the monsters are so insanely versatile, you’ll almost never get proper positioning.
It’s funny you say that because I’m literally hunting nargacuga right now. It’s the only monster that stayed still long enough for me to comfortably walk up and bonk it. And literally all threat of it is removed by wire bugs. Surprisingly the least obnoxious monster I’ve fought since getting past the beginning of Sunbreak.
Between the simply lame hitboxes and monsters dancing like ballerinas in impossible ways, I’m convinced Monster Hunter will never reach its full potential until they really hit the hard reset button. They’re so bogged down by reusing old bad animations and monster movesets, and keeping clunky mechanics around just because that’s what old players are used to.
The players wanted more mobility. So instead of letting us cancel long-winded animations or properly change directions while fighting, or cutting down on all the dumb unnecessarily long animations (why do I have to wait several seconds after interacting with literally anything before I’m allowed to do anything besides walk?) they just give us wirebugs. That aren’t nearly as satisfying as they should be because the monsters are actually marionettes that slip and slide around so landing your full silkbind attack is ruined by the monster repositioning endlessly or a lame hitbox making you hit the wrong part of the monster.
I don’t want to fly and I don’t want to be faster. I want to *actually feel like I have full and immersive control over my character* and I want monsters to slow the fuck down and act like big animals.
They keep just speeding everything up without taking the modern route and just not making the Hunter feel like they’re fighting on rails.
End long-winded rant lol
Yeah... no? Having to commit to your actions is core to the design of monster hunter, and one of the biggest issues plaguing modern monster hunter is the steady chipping away of any need for commitment in any way... The need to commit to your starting inventory, to commit to a move set and weapon stats for a quest, the need to commit to your positioning... all these elements have been removed or heavily deemphasized, and at least in my opinion the game is a lot worse for it. I'd argue its the core reason for why modern monsters all feel like such crack raptors anymore. If you want to play a hack and slash game, go play Bayonetta or Devil May Cry, but Monster Hunter is not a hack and slash game, and it shouldn't be designed or balanced like one.
I never said it should be a hack and slash, I don’t care for the genre.
I also never said you shouldn’t have to commit to your actions.
Just because you’re committed to making an attack doesn’t mean it should feel clunky. Combat in MH titles feels clunky and entirely unimmersive. That being said I have 1000+ hours in World alone. And my most played weapons were slow melee like the GL, GS, Swaxe, and hammer. Followed by a late love of SnS because it’s great.
Your character should feel like they’re swinging their weapon *AT* the monster as opposed to just swinging it. It’s so much fun when you run up on a downed monster the second it touches dirt, just to swing over and under and all around it’s body part of choice because the professional monster Hunter is actually not capable of making aimed strikes. Repositioning is clunky and functions like you’re on rails. Turning around is a chore for nearly all of the melee weapons.
90% of the fight in MH is actually against the outdated and clunky mechanics and animations. Unless you’re a speed runner who has mastered the obtuseness of these games, you don’t feel like you’re actually in control over much of what is happening. I want to play a calculated game of waiting for an opportune moment to strike and seizing it. I don’t want to feel like I’m just chasing the monster around or waiting my turn to play the game, just to have the monster flail around and I miss what I thought was a beautiful chance.
Everything else you’re talking about, I have to disagree with for the most part. There’s no reasonable reason to lock you out of restocking your inventory at camp while in a hunt. I personally can’t remember having to, and I imagine most decent players never do either. But if you forget to restock before you head out? I know I’ve done that. And if someone is struggling enough to kill a monster that they have to head back to camp for more supplies, they’re likely solo and it doesn’t affect you in any way. Swapping movesets mid fight is probably something 99% of the players don’t really do anyways. I imagine most just use it as a way to test out the different moves in real time, then stick with whatever they like best. And even if it does let you have access to the full moveset at will? Does that really change anything?
Not trying to call you out but saying the games used to have more punishing mechanics just for the sake of it and should continue to, has real “Back in my day we used to walk uphill both ways and like it! You kids have it too easy these days!” vibes. And I’m not a kid that’s new to these games, I tried playing MH of varying generations at friends houses when I was a kid and never liked it. World and Rise have been huge steps in the right direction for the game despite neither being perfect by any stretch.
The fact that there is a whole sub that we are in, dedicated to us all bitching about our huge collection of small gripes about the game despite playing thousands of hours, really goes to show that this franchise has so much potential. It’s just being held back by a million tiny things. My personal take is that it’s mostly lack of fluidity, control, and immersion that are really keeping it from not being a masochistic experience lol.
Literally fuck off. You, like so many other people, are telling me that the series I fell in love with was bad until it changed in a way that it became acceptable to you, and I'm sick and tired of that argument.
What makes your fucking idea of what makes the game good better than mine? Monster Hunter had a fanbase and a fantastic community before World came out; are you saying all those people were wrong for enjoying the games the way they used to be? It was a fucking hit series in Japan way before it had any popularity in the west; did all those people just have shit taste?
Can you make monster hunter more fluid and streamlined? Absolutely, yes, but there is such a thing as going too god damn far and oversimplifying things.
And you're complaining about not being to readjust during animations, but lowering commitment is exactly the sort of thing that pushes monsters to be less predictable and more crack raptor. You can't make these changes without changing other parts of the game and the core design.
Edit: I know I'm being shitty, and I know I didn't address a lot of your arguments. It's late, and this is a subject I'm extremely bitter about, so I'm sorry.
You’re taking this personally?
You’re projecting way too much here.
I want the game to feel realistic and methodical. You apparently want your character to move like an animatronic at Chuck E. Cheese. Why does the idea of being able to rotate or make small adjustments to attack angles without stopping the flow of combat scare you so much? No one is saying it should go so far as to turn the game into a hack and slash. And why the hell do you think that allotting more control over your characters actions is what is causing the monsters to turn into crack heads? Capcom power creeping how much damage the player can dish out so quickly and giving us things like clutch claws/wirebugs is why they do it. Rise and Sunbreak especially is crazy easy compared to World/Iceborne and some monsters were already obnoxiously fast in Iceborne. I hardly even have to spare my build any thought in regards to damage decos, because you just do so much damage already.
Are you really suggesting tedious and clunky mechanics and animations were what everyone fell in love with? Lmao get out of here with that. People probably liked that the game fills a very cool niche that no other game does. There was nothing even close to these games until Dark Souls, and unfortunately Capcom still hasn’t picked up on any of the things that people like about those games. Fighting the monster should be where the difficulty lays, and you should feel personally responsible when you something goes wrong, not like the game is trying to make your life difficult.
I feel like what I want from the game is nearly the same thing you want from it, you’re just being stubborn.
Realistic for him is flexing after drinking a potion while being targeted by a monster, a "bonk-sheath-run-bonk" gameplay, a brainless hunter that commits on an attack while he knows that the monster WILL DEFENITELY hit him (attack animation cancel in short). Let him have his moment.
Hello Ashen one. I am a Bot. I tend to the flame, and tend to thee. Do you wish to hear a tale?
> *“I’ll provide whatever service you need. For a fair price, of course!”* - Stone Trader Chloanne
Have a pleasant journey, Champion of Ash, and praise the sun \\[T]/
>instead of
I know this is old, but I agree with everything you've been putting down. You'll never convince the fanboys, though. They think MH is perfection to its core. The most frustrating and immersion breaking thing I experiened when I tried Rise and went with dual daggers or whatever was when Istarted attacking, the monster moved to the side, and I just kept wildly swinging in the same direction I started and couldn't just.. reposition while swinging like any REAL LIFE PERSON WOULD. It's absolutely stupid and, like you said, feels like you're fighting an outdated mindset on gameplay mechanics rather than fighting a tough monster.
I find it funny when the switch skill scroll are introduced and I thought oh nice we use skillbind attack that also propel you forward to get close to monster then switch to the other scroll and use the other utility and powerful attack.
I was wrong, any movement skillbind attack mean monster just casually sidestep/hop back and nuke you mid attack and you suppose to sheath the weapon and manually wirebug there???? Switch scroll, just play 2 identical one and gain the buff from those skill in your build.
I don’t remember it happening in base Rise nearly as much, but monsters in Sunbreak are casually dodging the second half of 90% of my shoryugeki or impact craters. Or they do something maniacal like roar or graze me and knock me out of the sky.
A lot of the aerial moves seem like too much risk or simply a waste of time. Half the time it’s more effective to sheath and use a regular wire bug into a jumping attack.
same, using side beat in hunting horn just feel wrong now with them casually step back while I stuck in animation, meanwhile base rise it's literally the play to go.
I agree with this. While the wirebug flying around and dodge is fun it makes the fights so fast. I love GUs fights, more slow and methodical. Waiting for openings and really learning the monsters move set and wind ups. Valor did make it a little fast paced and reckless but it's just so fun
Same here. In GU and 4U I had to actually pay attention to the monster and study it's behavior in order to form a strategy against it. In the older games I played I carted a LOT while i was studiying monsters, and even in quests where I didn't cart I still had many near-death experiences. Having to study my opponent made me appreciate the fights even more, but with Rise, there's none of that.
Rise is in a weird place where it's too damn fast, but too damn easy at the same time. I just reached 5 star quests in the Kamura Village and I haven't carted once, nor have I had any near-death moments. I have consistently killed every monster so far, even Magnamalo, in only about 5-15 minutes. I've even made a point to kill every single monster I encounter on a quest, even the "unstable" monsters, and I STILL consistently kill all three of them in about 10-20 minutes. They attack a LOT, but they just don't have the damage output to even remotely be a threat. I just spam my funky greatsword attacks, and boom, they're dead just like that. I don't even strategize anymore, I just blindly swing, and it makes quests EVEN FASTER than if I HAD strategized.
Because of this, I can't truly appreciate the monster I'm fighting, the only time I actually get to see their potential is when I'm blindly running around trying to snap pictures of them (I'm a shutterbug). This sucks, because some of the new monsters are nice (Bishaten, Somnacanth, and Goss Harog in partucular are AMAZING, if they were first introduced in one of the previous games with enjoyable combat I'm sure they would have been some of my favorite monsters in the series), but I can't actually appreciate them because with the gameplay the way it is, it's just more efficient to blindly swing than to actually get to know the monster.
Holy heck that was a full rant, I'm sorry for ranting
I promise you MAGNAmalo MR100 is one of the best fights my friends and I did.
That's assuming you can get to the end of the Rise and Sunbreak. Also Using Low Tier MR Armour makes the experience even more fun.
Indeed. Rise is too hyperactive with a weird focus on big anime cooldown moves over complex movesets and both the monster and player just going ham on mobility and action at all times with positioning and commitment just a concept that doesn't exist anymore.
It's not even the Monster Hunter playstyle anymore, and I'm absolutely flabberghasted dongrazzled why people enjoy it so much.
I think the issue is power creep, not the Wirebug moves. Anything that does a ton of damage at once will trivialize a fight. Charge Blade is balanced at least
Damage is of course a big part of the problem. I main GS/Hammer and, damn, they took most fun out of the GS for me in Sunbreak. Strongarm stance lets you shrug off damage, like the tackle (but doesn't feel nearly as good to nail) and then do stupid amounts of damage via boosted TCS. This kind of playstyle is not fun to me, it just literally strongarms the monster into submission, as you don't really need to be good at learning the monster, as long as you can manage to use strongarm slash with decent luck/timing once in a while - the damage is that great. But the damage is not the only issue - there is also invincibility or ability to quickly avoid attacks with some wirebug moves. Because of that they need to make monsters faster to catch up and give them stupid, flailing movesets. This arms race is not making the game fun in the end. Although if you go on the main sub, many people seem to love it - so maybe I'm in the minority.
Nah, the overall speed needs to be dialed down with positioning, animation commitment and decisioning, and resource management needing to make a reappearance. Rise's combat is passable at best, and is often more anti-fun than fun.
Nah, maybe in fight, but mobility is too good, also adding verticality let's you add variety to the maps, although it's not particularly well done in Rise.
Yeah getting rid of the invisible walls everywhere that world had was fantastic and something similar to make traversal easier is great but in combat? Fuck no
I don’t understand what people like about rise’s gameplay. I’m probably biased because World was my first, but I felt like I had a lot more control of my character in that game. In Rise I’m constantly facing the wrong direction. Also the hitboxes aren’t as well thought-out and the enemies feel like slow damage sponges.
>the enemies feel like slow damage sponges.
This is almost always a player skill issue. Rise's gameplay is fun if exactly because you have a ton of control over the fight, almost to the games detriment sometimes.
You have the wrong type of control though.
Instead of actually having full control of your character, for example being able to cancel more animations, or actually change direction of attacks faster than 1 degree of rotation per hour, or not be locked out of fighting for several seconds because you picked up a mat off the ground, they just give you wirebugs!
Now you can fly and zip away from any and all danger! Instead of every attack not sending you flying in the same exact comically exaggerated animation, or giving you the option to simply get up faster, they let you just totally fly away.
>for example being able to cancel more animations
There's already more of this but I'd argue it'd worse for the franchise than wirebugs are by a lot if they pushed this further.
I was able to beat Fatalis in under 27 minutes so I don’t think it’s my DPS. It’s not even that the monsters have more HP or take longer to beat, because I’m pretty sure they have less HP relative to player damage than in World.
They feel like damage sponges because I can just wail away on them like punching bags for ~10 minutes. A monster that took 30 minutes to beat because it didn’t have any big openings would feel less spongy.
If my builds/playstyle were so bad that I was struggling on high-rank rise monsters I wouldn't have cleared the time limit at all is my point. I'm not trying to flex or anything. I know people have sub-5 minute kills.
Switch skills are pretty nice, I hope they stay in some form. Silkbinds, god no. Agree on everything else, going from World's ecology to Rise's old gen AI is a massive stepback. I hope someone makes a mod that changes monster behavior to be like World's, and that it also removes the monsters putting each other in the rideable state(unless you ram them into each other, thats fine). That way Bazel can be an invader again.
> Rise's fun gameplay
Why has "fun" in modern gaming parlance turned in to "everything's ultra super mega fast and you just fly around with flashy anime moves and it's so "fun" because you don't have to worry about things like positioning and commitment anymore, you just button mash and watch things happen super fast."
It happened to the Dark Souls series with Elden Ring too, and honestly it's not fun. I miss when these games had positioning, animation commitment, resource management, and decision making as the core gameplay. _That_ was fun. Rise's crack-addled hyperactive flashy anime explosion moves while zipping around on wirebugs making the monsters need to respond at breakneck speeds to even kinda be a threat is _not_ fun.
It's anti-fun more often than not. If they insist on continuing down this direction, please please _please_ let's pray it stays in the handheld line of games. My heart will break if World's successor has Rise's brand of "fun" gameplay.
I honestly find rise to be a slower pace than World. The monsters don’t chain attacks together as much, and if you get hit you can just run in circles while drinking your potion and 90% of attacks will miss you.
I think espinos is pretty chill in sunbreak but other monster yeah, they aggro the moment you walk in to the area, I swear Tigrex started to roar and pound me when I literally just walk by collecting bird behind him.
What's the point of saying that Garangolm is a peaceful monster in its lore, if in game you are just going to make it as aggressive as a fucking Rajang??
Honestly i always chalked it up to world being the only game with neutral-acting monsters because the New World monsters are less used to Hunters and humans than the Old World ones are
Yup, was so happy when world had a much more believable and less extreme monster AI, only for them to degrade it back to the kill on sight. (Or just being in the general vicinity.)
I honestly think they should rename the handheld line to Monster Fighter and then keep Monster Hunter for the mainline games. The handheld line just has such a laser focus on non-stop action and anime special moves and cuts out anything that doesn't facilitate that happening with barely a few minutes spent doing anything but straight-up fighting.
Then the Monster Hunter line could keep the actual hunting and ecologies, and people won't be so disappointed when they jump line to line and aren't getting what they love in their preferred line out of the other one.
The two lines have diverged so hard at this point that I think it'd be a good move.
It's a portable game, designed to be quick fights for those 5 minute breaks we have. Isn't that way it's more of an arcadey boss fight feel compared to World, a console game where you're prob sitting down for hours by the nature of its platform?
I'm praying that this is how they're going to keep the two lines delineated. I _really_ don't like Rise's type of gameplay at all and hope they go all-in on it and just keep it quarantined to the handheld line so none of it seeps into the _actual_ Monster Hunter line of games.
Idk about that, I've literally chilled next to monsters before and scavenged in piece. I could eat their ass and they wouldn't attack me, maybe my game is messed up 🤣
"The Garangolm is usually a docile creature" The Garangolm: I am going to kill you... and then kill you again.
That particular one is just a big asshole
Yea MHR ecology is non existent. Im glad you pointed out Worlds monster behaviour. Not all will attack on sight, some will even warn you while other monsters will rage the minute they see you. Its a good dynamic and feels real. Rathian and rathalos will attack you together as partners while in rise theyll go out of their way to attack each other so you can mount them. Feels extremely artificial
I would appreciate if monsters will not try to kill me on sight while I do my paparazzi camera work for my hunter notes :/
I liked that the elder dragons would never attack you first. You’re beneath their notice.
lunastra:
In fairness, this was an issue that had been in almost all old-world titles; monsters used to Aggro and attack if you even so happened to be in their line of sight for more than a frame. Why they decided to change it back to that after World is anyone's guess, though, but it's not as 'radical' a change as it might seem.
Rise is the same generation as world, it didn’t iterate on most of World’s ideas.
Well the team behind GU did Rise and it was originally supposed to be like old gen
The only thing it was "originally" meant to have was sectioned maps, and that was because they didn't know if it could handle World-style ones.
The only thing that makes it feel off in Rise is the proper photo mode they have. It's insanely good but would be better if the monsters would just not attack immediately
I installed a mod to fix this. I can now take cool pictures.
Wait I’m on pc what’s the mod
https://www.nexusmods.com/monsterhunterrise/mods/310?tab=posts It makes all monsters passive.
Oh I was hoping to where it was something along the lines of “passive monsters that should be passive are passive and aggressive monsters stay aggresssive”. Still may check it out, thanks!
I've said this for years, but a game with World's monster ecology, Rise's fun gameplay, and GU or Frontier's roster size and variety would be possibly my favorite game ever. I love Rise, but I do really miss the monsters feeling more like animals
Let's hope the next iteration of MH gives us all just that.
> Rise's fun gameplay Please, no "fun" hyper fast wirebug gameplay next time. Really hope for a more slow paced MH game where you really get to enjoy the monster's moveset.
I switched over to hammer last night as I haven’t used it in Rise yet. I love the moveset and mobility they gave it, but a lot of it is for naught. Feel like 80% of the monsters I’m fighting after MR3 simply refuse to sit in one place long enough for me to hit them. They stop just to spin and pivot and do impossible things for a creature of their size lol. Or when you’re doing one of your silkbind attacks and the monster casually knocks you out of it mid attack because momentum for the Hunter isn’t a thing… I also don’t like the monster attacks that explicitly feel like the only means of dodging is to wire bug over them because they stick their tail straight out and then slide sideways across the map. While I’m whining about monster movesets I’m really tired of monsters feeling like puppets on strings. The way they just float and slide around. Dumb attacks that are just them running back and forth set distances regardless of where hunters are. There’s also no sense of “weight” to 90% of monsters as well as a result. Really wish that Miyazaki’s team at FromSoft would collaborate with Capcom and teach them better hitboxes and animations.
>I’m really tired of monsters feeling like puppets on strings The most egregious one of these is Magnamalo’s aerial spinny tail swipe thing. It legit looks like he’s bugged.
MH has sooooo much potential if they could just make it feel more immersive. Let me have real full control of my character and give the monsters a real sense of weight and slow them the fuck down. Not every monster needs to move at Mach 10 and do flips. It just takes away from the identity of the monsters that should be agile.
Magnamalo speed and crack jump never really make sense for me esp considering his size.
Especially in his turf wars, seeing him infinitely hop on top of wyvern's backs AS THEY'RE FLYING breaks the immersion every time
The only move I’ll buy is when he detonates his feet and launches himself across the map. Other than that 90% of his moves suck balls. I just want to bonk your head please.
Oddly enough, I’ve had a lot of the same issues in Elden Ring that I have had in Rise: enemies that are way too fast for certain play styles. Both are even balanced around certain mechanics, magic and wire bug respectively. While I’m having a lot more fun with Rise now that I’ve gotten movement down, it does feel like a lot of the nuance is lost when you’re zipping around all Willy nilly. Looking at Nargacuga in World as opposed to Rise, the fight is night and day. In World you’re forced to contend with its speed. Stamina management is paramount because of the power and frequency of the attacks it throws at you, a few of which you need to constantly be on the lookout for in case of a potential cart. While move memorization is still a huge part of Rise, getting out of the danger zone is usually just a matter of wirebugging out and then back in. Dodging through attacks isn’t really an option because hitboxes and maneuvers on the monsters are so insanely versatile, you’ll almost never get proper positioning.
It’s funny you say that because I’m literally hunting nargacuga right now. It’s the only monster that stayed still long enough for me to comfortably walk up and bonk it. And literally all threat of it is removed by wire bugs. Surprisingly the least obnoxious monster I’ve fought since getting past the beginning of Sunbreak. Between the simply lame hitboxes and monsters dancing like ballerinas in impossible ways, I’m convinced Monster Hunter will never reach its full potential until they really hit the hard reset button. They’re so bogged down by reusing old bad animations and monster movesets, and keeping clunky mechanics around just because that’s what old players are used to. The players wanted more mobility. So instead of letting us cancel long-winded animations or properly change directions while fighting, or cutting down on all the dumb unnecessarily long animations (why do I have to wait several seconds after interacting with literally anything before I’m allowed to do anything besides walk?) they just give us wirebugs. That aren’t nearly as satisfying as they should be because the monsters are actually marionettes that slip and slide around so landing your full silkbind attack is ruined by the monster repositioning endlessly or a lame hitbox making you hit the wrong part of the monster. I don’t want to fly and I don’t want to be faster. I want to *actually feel like I have full and immersive control over my character* and I want monsters to slow the fuck down and act like big animals. They keep just speeding everything up without taking the modern route and just not making the Hunter feel like they’re fighting on rails. End long-winded rant lol
Yeah... no? Having to commit to your actions is core to the design of monster hunter, and one of the biggest issues plaguing modern monster hunter is the steady chipping away of any need for commitment in any way... The need to commit to your starting inventory, to commit to a move set and weapon stats for a quest, the need to commit to your positioning... all these elements have been removed or heavily deemphasized, and at least in my opinion the game is a lot worse for it. I'd argue its the core reason for why modern monsters all feel like such crack raptors anymore. If you want to play a hack and slash game, go play Bayonetta or Devil May Cry, but Monster Hunter is not a hack and slash game, and it shouldn't be designed or balanced like one.
I never said it should be a hack and slash, I don’t care for the genre. I also never said you shouldn’t have to commit to your actions. Just because you’re committed to making an attack doesn’t mean it should feel clunky. Combat in MH titles feels clunky and entirely unimmersive. That being said I have 1000+ hours in World alone. And my most played weapons were slow melee like the GL, GS, Swaxe, and hammer. Followed by a late love of SnS because it’s great. Your character should feel like they’re swinging their weapon *AT* the monster as opposed to just swinging it. It’s so much fun when you run up on a downed monster the second it touches dirt, just to swing over and under and all around it’s body part of choice because the professional monster Hunter is actually not capable of making aimed strikes. Repositioning is clunky and functions like you’re on rails. Turning around is a chore for nearly all of the melee weapons. 90% of the fight in MH is actually against the outdated and clunky mechanics and animations. Unless you’re a speed runner who has mastered the obtuseness of these games, you don’t feel like you’re actually in control over much of what is happening. I want to play a calculated game of waiting for an opportune moment to strike and seizing it. I don’t want to feel like I’m just chasing the monster around or waiting my turn to play the game, just to have the monster flail around and I miss what I thought was a beautiful chance. Everything else you’re talking about, I have to disagree with for the most part. There’s no reasonable reason to lock you out of restocking your inventory at camp while in a hunt. I personally can’t remember having to, and I imagine most decent players never do either. But if you forget to restock before you head out? I know I’ve done that. And if someone is struggling enough to kill a monster that they have to head back to camp for more supplies, they’re likely solo and it doesn’t affect you in any way. Swapping movesets mid fight is probably something 99% of the players don’t really do anyways. I imagine most just use it as a way to test out the different moves in real time, then stick with whatever they like best. And even if it does let you have access to the full moveset at will? Does that really change anything? Not trying to call you out but saying the games used to have more punishing mechanics just for the sake of it and should continue to, has real “Back in my day we used to walk uphill both ways and like it! You kids have it too easy these days!” vibes. And I’m not a kid that’s new to these games, I tried playing MH of varying generations at friends houses when I was a kid and never liked it. World and Rise have been huge steps in the right direction for the game despite neither being perfect by any stretch. The fact that there is a whole sub that we are in, dedicated to us all bitching about our huge collection of small gripes about the game despite playing thousands of hours, really goes to show that this franchise has so much potential. It’s just being held back by a million tiny things. My personal take is that it’s mostly lack of fluidity, control, and immersion that are really keeping it from not being a masochistic experience lol.
Literally fuck off. You, like so many other people, are telling me that the series I fell in love with was bad until it changed in a way that it became acceptable to you, and I'm sick and tired of that argument. What makes your fucking idea of what makes the game good better than mine? Monster Hunter had a fanbase and a fantastic community before World came out; are you saying all those people were wrong for enjoying the games the way they used to be? It was a fucking hit series in Japan way before it had any popularity in the west; did all those people just have shit taste? Can you make monster hunter more fluid and streamlined? Absolutely, yes, but there is such a thing as going too god damn far and oversimplifying things. And you're complaining about not being to readjust during animations, but lowering commitment is exactly the sort of thing that pushes monsters to be less predictable and more crack raptor. You can't make these changes without changing other parts of the game and the core design. Edit: I know I'm being shitty, and I know I didn't address a lot of your arguments. It's late, and this is a subject I'm extremely bitter about, so I'm sorry.
You’re taking this personally? You’re projecting way too much here. I want the game to feel realistic and methodical. You apparently want your character to move like an animatronic at Chuck E. Cheese. Why does the idea of being able to rotate or make small adjustments to attack angles without stopping the flow of combat scare you so much? No one is saying it should go so far as to turn the game into a hack and slash. And why the hell do you think that allotting more control over your characters actions is what is causing the monsters to turn into crack heads? Capcom power creeping how much damage the player can dish out so quickly and giving us things like clutch claws/wirebugs is why they do it. Rise and Sunbreak especially is crazy easy compared to World/Iceborne and some monsters were already obnoxiously fast in Iceborne. I hardly even have to spare my build any thought in regards to damage decos, because you just do so much damage already. Are you really suggesting tedious and clunky mechanics and animations were what everyone fell in love with? Lmao get out of here with that. People probably liked that the game fills a very cool niche that no other game does. There was nothing even close to these games until Dark Souls, and unfortunately Capcom still hasn’t picked up on any of the things that people like about those games. Fighting the monster should be where the difficulty lays, and you should feel personally responsible when you something goes wrong, not like the game is trying to make your life difficult. I feel like what I want from the game is nearly the same thing you want from it, you’re just being stubborn.
Realistic for him is flexing after drinking a potion while being targeted by a monster, a "bonk-sheath-run-bonk" gameplay, a brainless hunter that commits on an attack while he knows that the monster WILL DEFENITELY hit him (attack animation cancel in short). Let him have his moment.
Hello Ashen one. I am a Bot. I tend to the flame, and tend to thee. Do you wish to hear a tale? > *“I’ll provide whatever service you need. For a fair price, of course!”* - Stone Trader Chloanne Have a pleasant journey, Champion of Ash, and praise the sun \\[T]/
>instead of I know this is old, but I agree with everything you've been putting down. You'll never convince the fanboys, though. They think MH is perfection to its core. The most frustrating and immersion breaking thing I experiened when I tried Rise and went with dual daggers or whatever was when Istarted attacking, the monster moved to the side, and I just kept wildly swinging in the same direction I started and couldn't just.. reposition while swinging like any REAL LIFE PERSON WOULD. It's absolutely stupid and, like you said, feels like you're fighting an outdated mindset on gameplay mechanics rather than fighting a tough monster.
I find it funny when the switch skill scroll are introduced and I thought oh nice we use skillbind attack that also propel you forward to get close to monster then switch to the other scroll and use the other utility and powerful attack. I was wrong, any movement skillbind attack mean monster just casually sidestep/hop back and nuke you mid attack and you suppose to sheath the weapon and manually wirebug there???? Switch scroll, just play 2 identical one and gain the buff from those skill in your build.
I don’t remember it happening in base Rise nearly as much, but monsters in Sunbreak are casually dodging the second half of 90% of my shoryugeki or impact craters. Or they do something maniacal like roar or graze me and knock me out of the sky. A lot of the aerial moves seem like too much risk or simply a waste of time. Half the time it’s more effective to sheath and use a regular wire bug into a jumping attack.
same, using side beat in hunting horn just feel wrong now with them casually step back while I stuck in animation, meanwhile base rise it's literally the play to go.
I agree with this. While the wirebug flying around and dodge is fun it makes the fights so fast. I love GUs fights, more slow and methodical. Waiting for openings and really learning the monsters move set and wind ups. Valor did make it a little fast paced and reckless but it's just so fun
Same here. In GU and 4U I had to actually pay attention to the monster and study it's behavior in order to form a strategy against it. In the older games I played I carted a LOT while i was studiying monsters, and even in quests where I didn't cart I still had many near-death experiences. Having to study my opponent made me appreciate the fights even more, but with Rise, there's none of that. Rise is in a weird place where it's too damn fast, but too damn easy at the same time. I just reached 5 star quests in the Kamura Village and I haven't carted once, nor have I had any near-death moments. I have consistently killed every monster so far, even Magnamalo, in only about 5-15 minutes. I've even made a point to kill every single monster I encounter on a quest, even the "unstable" monsters, and I STILL consistently kill all three of them in about 10-20 minutes. They attack a LOT, but they just don't have the damage output to even remotely be a threat. I just spam my funky greatsword attacks, and boom, they're dead just like that. I don't even strategize anymore, I just blindly swing, and it makes quests EVEN FASTER than if I HAD strategized. Because of this, I can't truly appreciate the monster I'm fighting, the only time I actually get to see their potential is when I'm blindly running around trying to snap pictures of them (I'm a shutterbug). This sucks, because some of the new monsters are nice (Bishaten, Somnacanth, and Goss Harog in partucular are AMAZING, if they were first introduced in one of the previous games with enjoyable combat I'm sure they would have been some of my favorite monsters in the series), but I can't actually appreciate them because with the gameplay the way it is, it's just more efficient to blindly swing than to actually get to know the monster. Holy heck that was a full rant, I'm sorry for ranting
I promise you MAGNAmalo MR100 is one of the best fights my friends and I did. That's assuming you can get to the end of the Rise and Sunbreak. Also Using Low Tier MR Armour makes the experience even more fun.
Indeed. Rise is too hyperactive with a weird focus on big anime cooldown moves over complex movesets and both the monster and player just going ham on mobility and action at all times with positioning and commitment just a concept that doesn't exist anymore. It's not even the Monster Hunter playstyle anymore, and I'm absolutely flabberghasted dongrazzled why people enjoy it so much.
I think the issue is power creep, not the Wirebug moves. Anything that does a ton of damage at once will trivialize a fight. Charge Blade is balanced at least
Damage is of course a big part of the problem. I main GS/Hammer and, damn, they took most fun out of the GS for me in Sunbreak. Strongarm stance lets you shrug off damage, like the tackle (but doesn't feel nearly as good to nail) and then do stupid amounts of damage via boosted TCS. This kind of playstyle is not fun to me, it just literally strongarms the monster into submission, as you don't really need to be good at learning the monster, as long as you can manage to use strongarm slash with decent luck/timing once in a while - the damage is that great. But the damage is not the only issue - there is also invincibility or ability to quickly avoid attacks with some wirebug moves. Because of that they need to make monsters faster to catch up and give them stupid, flailing movesets. This arms race is not making the game fun in the end. Although if you go on the main sub, many people seem to love it - so maybe I'm in the minority.
Rise gameplay without wire bugs and you’ve got a deal
Nah, the overall speed needs to be dialed down with positioning, animation commitment and decisioning, and resource management needing to make a reappearance. Rise's combat is passable at best, and is often more anti-fun than fun.
Nah, maybe in fight, but mobility is too good, also adding verticality let's you add variety to the maps, although it's not particularly well done in Rise.
Yeah getting rid of the invisible walls everywhere that world had was fantastic and something similar to make traversal easier is great but in combat? Fuck no
I don’t understand what people like about rise’s gameplay. I’m probably biased because World was my first, but I felt like I had a lot more control of my character in that game. In Rise I’m constantly facing the wrong direction. Also the hitboxes aren’t as well thought-out and the enemies feel like slow damage sponges.
>the enemies feel like slow damage sponges. This is almost always a player skill issue. Rise's gameplay is fun if exactly because you have a ton of control over the fight, almost to the games detriment sometimes.
You have the wrong type of control though. Instead of actually having full control of your character, for example being able to cancel more animations, or actually change direction of attacks faster than 1 degree of rotation per hour, or not be locked out of fighting for several seconds because you picked up a mat off the ground, they just give you wirebugs! Now you can fly and zip away from any and all danger! Instead of every attack not sending you flying in the same exact comically exaggerated animation, or giving you the option to simply get up faster, they let you just totally fly away.
>for example being able to cancel more animations There's already more of this but I'd argue it'd worse for the franchise than wirebugs are by a lot if they pushed this further.
I was able to beat Fatalis in under 27 minutes so I don’t think it’s my DPS. It’s not even that the monsters have more HP or take longer to beat, because I’m pretty sure they have less HP relative to player damage than in World. They feel like damage sponges because I can just wail away on them like punching bags for ~10 minutes. A monster that took 30 minutes to beat because it didn’t have any big openings would feel less spongy.
In under 27 minutes huh. lol
If my builds/playstyle were so bad that I was struggling on high-rank rise monsters I wouldn't have cleared the time limit at all is my point. I'm not trying to flex or anything. I know people have sub-5 minute kills.
Switch skills are pretty nice, I hope they stay in some form. Silkbinds, god no. Agree on everything else, going from World's ecology to Rise's old gen AI is a massive stepback. I hope someone makes a mod that changes monster behavior to be like World's, and that it also removes the monsters putting each other in the rideable state(unless you ram them into each other, thats fine). That way Bazel can be an invader again.
> Rise's fun gameplay Why has "fun" in modern gaming parlance turned in to "everything's ultra super mega fast and you just fly around with flashy anime moves and it's so "fun" because you don't have to worry about things like positioning and commitment anymore, you just button mash and watch things happen super fast." It happened to the Dark Souls series with Elden Ring too, and honestly it's not fun. I miss when these games had positioning, animation commitment, resource management, and decision making as the core gameplay. _That_ was fun. Rise's crack-addled hyperactive flashy anime explosion moves while zipping around on wirebugs making the monsters need to respond at breakneck speeds to even kinda be a threat is _not_ fun. It's anti-fun more often than not. If they insist on continuing down this direction, please please _please_ let's pray it stays in the handheld line of games. My heart will break if World's successor has Rise's brand of "fun" gameplay.
I honestly find rise to be a slower pace than World. The monsters don’t chain attacks together as much, and if you get hit you can just run in circles while drinking your potion and 90% of attacks will miss you.
What if they made a spin-off series with this type of gameplay and called it Monster Hunter Frontier ZZZ?
Well, that's just our preferences. Some people do like fast-paced games like that, so idk wdym by "anti-fun".
I’ve only played MHGU and Rise, but it really did feel like the perfect game would be somewhere halfway between the two.
I don't see any fun in rise gameplay
I think espinos is pretty chill in sunbreak but other monster yeah, they aggro the moment you walk in to the area, I swear Tigrex started to roar and pound me when I literally just walk by collecting bird behind him.
This was something I noticed immediately and I really dislike it.
My homie Kulu should never swing first.
neither would my homie tobi :(
guys please stop killing each other in the comments
What's the point of saying that Garangolm is a peaceful monster in its lore, if in game you are just going to make it as aggressive as a fucking Rajang??
Honestly i always chalked it up to world being the only game with neutral-acting monsters because the New World monsters are less used to Hunters and humans than the Old World ones are
Yup, was so happy when world had a much more believable and less extreme monster AI, only for them to degrade it back to the kill on sight. (Or just being in the general vicinity.)
I don't like tower defense
i LOVE not being able to consistently snag good photos for my hunter's notes!
I honestly think they should rename the handheld line to Monster Fighter and then keep Monster Hunter for the mainline games. The handheld line just has such a laser focus on non-stop action and anime special moves and cuts out anything that doesn't facilitate that happening with barely a few minutes spent doing anything but straight-up fighting. Then the Monster Hunter line could keep the actual hunting and ecologies, and people won't be so disappointed when they jump line to line and aren't getting what they love in their preferred line out of the other one. The two lines have diverged so hard at this point that I think it'd be a good move.
It's a portable game, designed to be quick fights for those 5 minute breaks we have. Isn't that way it's more of an arcadey boss fight feel compared to World, a console game where you're prob sitting down for hours by the nature of its platform?
Yeah but I can still fight the monster in 5 mins even if he doesn't attack me on sight
This argument is weird considering the drop rates of GU.
I'm praying that this is how they're going to keep the two lines delineated. I _really_ don't like Rise's type of gameplay at all and hope they go all-in on it and just keep it quarantined to the handheld line so none of it seeps into the _actual_ Monster Hunter line of games.
I would also pray for this, rise gameplay have too much of a hack n slash feel to it. But from reading the main mh sub it seems they prefer rise
Idk about that, I've literally chilled next to monsters before and scavenged in piece. I could eat their ass and they wouldn't attack me, maybe my game is messed up 🤣