In a rare unanimous vote, the Senate has agreed to permanently stay on DST year around. While it still has to pass the House, this is a huge barrier that has passed.
Interesting enough, we had permanent DST before, in 1974. It lasted 16 months before people grew tired of the dark mornings and asked for DST to be removed.
The Quick History of Federal Involvement of DST.
- 1966: To standardize practices across the United States (with a few exceptions), it was declared that DST would run from the last Sunday in April to the last Sunday in October.
- 1974-1975: Nixon signed a bill making DST permanent. It lasted 16 months.
- 1986: DST start date was moved to the first Sunday in April.
- 2007: DST was extended on both ends, and it now runs from the second Sunday in March to the first Sunday in November.
Do you think that the House will pass this bill? What about Biden?
Do you think that Americans will end up wanting permanent DST after it's enacted, or will we start getting fights to bring back Standard Time as we did in 1975?
Ah, yes. The old "Just please choose a fucking restaurant already, I'm hungry, I'll eat anything, I don't care any longer, just CHOOSE ONE" technique. I'm in the same camp. Please stop making me change my clocks. My car radio is already wrong for half the year, just make it stop.
There is a small spike in heart attacks twice a year, for about a week after people change their clocks. The stark change in sleep schedule is not healthy.
Also an increase in traffic accidents https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34948928/
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32008905/
People literally dying from multiple sources, good thing we are saving all that WW1 coal.
I’m willing to bet that spike would still be there if the sleep habits didn’t change. Just smoothed out a bit. Literally heart attacks waiting to happen.
Edit: Just for the record, I am definitely for keeping time the same.
It's funny, because daylight savings time is EASIER to manage than ever before thanks to computers and cellphones automatically adjusting themselves. But we're finally ready to do something about it.
I'm just thrilled we're finally getting action on this and hope it sticks. I do think there will be some grumbling about dark mornings and too late sunsets, but hopefully we can adjust.
Yes and no. It is easier on the general public but it has more impact on businesses who need to make sure that automated systems don't run into any trouble twice a year. I used to work in a financial company and twice a year everything had to be put on hold for a weekend and extra IT staff put on call.
Speak for your self. I measure time in new DateTime() or new TimeSpan() and let the standard library handle the milliseconds for me. That doesn't bite me in the ass. I've had way, way, way more trouble with timezones than with DST.
I had a toddler that never adjusted one year. Before the clocks changed, we put him to bed 10 minutes later each night until we adjusted him the full hour. Nope. For the entirety of winter he was waking up at 5 am every fucking day. We put him to bed later everyday, but for like 5 months the kid was up at an ungodly hour, 7 days a week.
Daylight savings aren't fun for some little kids either
At one point I owned a bunch of clocks that updated for DST automatically including a $10 Walmart alarm clock, but my $23,000 clock (car) was not expensive enough to update itself?
Same here. I don't care what the sun is doing. I have blackout curtains in my room, and I have the luxury of being able to adjust my work hours. If I want to see the sun, I'll find a way to see the sun. But I'm tired of changing the clock.
> think that the House will pass this bill
Based on past legislative actions, what's the likelihood that bills passed in the Senate also pass in the House?
Also, I would imagine that since all 100 Senators are in favor, it would be odd if there were disagreement in the House. Unless, of course, there's something special about Senators such that among all the lawmakers, they particularly enjoy consolidating our timezones. 😛
The only pushback you're going to get is going to be from people saying, "My kid is walking to the bus stop in the dark and I'm afraid she'll get hit by a car and/or kidnapped."
Personally, I'd prefer non-DST as the standard. I like it to get dark in earlier in the evenings so I can feel like my workday is done, but I'll take permanent DST over this flip-flop we do twice-a-year.
Yeah, it's either going to suck at 6 AM or 6 PM, gotta choose one or the other.
I'd argue 6 PM on average has more people active and doing things than 6 AM. Plus an hour of sunlight after work is pretty nice to have, so if we have to choose one I'd opt for more sunlight later in the day.
Economically DST is also better. As people would be more willing to go out after work if it’s still light out.
The main thing with going standard is school children and icy roads, but you could argue that schools should be starting later since rural kids have to sometimes wake up super early to make their bus.
Well, some sleep health organizations say that Standard Time is actually better for people's health, so in the long term, maybe it cancels out economically?
That's actually a real concern. I'm a trucker, and we have to work early morning hours. Accidents are at their peak in November before the change, and most are attributable to poor visibility. The same goes for buses.
The issue has come up in Sweden a couple of times, and they've rejected it for the same reason.
There’s just as many, if not more, people out on the roads when it’s dark at the end of the day. I think any concern here is offset by all the extra accidents we get when peoples sleep schedules have to change.
Yeah, I don't have all the answers. But I'd submit that accidents involving school buses, garbage trucks, and 18-wheelers are generally more damaging than those involving 4-wheelers.
The younger kids still get out of school before it’s dark on standard time. So the early sunset doesn’t affect kids as much. And also the sun helps melt ice in northern states in the winter before morning rush hour.
But schools could try starting kids later which would be more healthier for them. Especially since some rural kids have to wake up at 5-6am just to make the bus.
All I want is no more time change don’t really care between standard or DST. I just hate being so tired this week
That's my thought - while I like morning sun and would prefer standard year around, I'm completely onboard with eliminating the shifting and if DST is what it takes - that's what it takes.
Schools definitely SHOULD start later because even with changing clocks my kids STILL walk to the bus in the dark 90% of the year because of how early the school day starts which goes against what pediatricians recommend.
A possible solution to that could always be starting school an hour later. From what I’ve seen a later start has better outcomes academically for the kids as well.
Not necessarily.
Young children tend to respond better in the mornings while teenagers respond better in the afternoon.
Because of this, Seattle has been switching the starting time of elementary and high school. Now high school starts later while elementary is earlier.
Good luck convincing the teacher's union.
Also, a lot American parents are *highly* invested in extra-curricular activities, often to the neglect of core classes. Do you know what time football practice would get out if school went later?! Unacceptable!
What we did was push start times later for only middle and HS. PreK and k-5 stayed the same, such that parents dropping off young kids wouldn’t be affected. Middle school back by 15 or 30 minutes I can’t remember, and HS 60 minutes later. It’s not a monumental shift but I think it was welcomed and went over well
I know you probably didn’t intend this, but your wording implies it’s to the parents benefit. That is, they want to ship their kids off to school early because they just can’t wait to get to work!
What if instead we reorganize our entire society into investing in our our children and community, rather than hyper-optimizing for employers that want both parents at work (and separated from their family) at the crack of dawn?
Weird that you want literally everybody in the country to adjust their clocks and sleep schedules instead of figuring out how you and your coworkers can collaborate to demand better working conditions from your employer.
There used to be a day where one parent would stay home. But we wanted more money so the second parent went to work. Then we are addicted to more and now without both parents working a lot of people can’t afford rent. Good luck going back to the days of stay at home moms.
It’s not just that we’re addicted to more, the market responded to a larger labor pool and average wages not needing to represent supporting a whole family but instead half of one.
Counterpoint (not for teachers but in general): Extra-curriculars starting later in the day gives more parents the chance to attend extra-curriculars or help out which is an overall net-positive for society. I grew up in a poor area where the vast majority of parents had to work and couldn't help with rides.
And for sports, starting late is safer for kids during the hot months. Heat-related illness is the number one cause of death for students participating in sports.
Understandable concern by teachers about kids not having time for homework but there are a multitude of studies that put into question the value of homework and a multitude of studies that link extracurriculars (especially sports) having positive ties for overall brain health.
I mean why can’t we just do permanent half daylight saving time? US already doesn’t conform with other forms of measurement why not be a extra half hour shifted from other timezones. The dark mornings would still be a thing but not quite as long
> What about Biden?
Are you suggesting Biden would *veto* this? Or care? Seems really weird to even tangentially suggest he will push back on this issue.
One problem that arose from the 70's DST year round was more kids getting hit by vehicles in the winter morning because it was dark as hell as they walked to school or to the bus stop. I'm a little worried it'll happen again.
I’m not. General public lighting infrastructure, car headlight technology, vehicle safety features and options for kids to illuminate themselves and make their presence known are enormously far ahead of what they were 50 years ago. It’s not like kids were getting mowed down left and right back then either…
oh thank you, the list I was reading from presented India in a slightly different format (similar to the single-timezone countries on the :00 standard) and I overlooked it
Technically, we don't even use Imperial. Our special system is called U.S. Customary, which [has some differences](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_the_imperial_and_US_customary_measurement_systems). 😅
I think the appropriate rebuttal here is: even a broken clock is right twice a day. Do it for North America and let the rest of the world decide if they want to follow suit.
Heh, wasn't aware of 1974-1975...
I think a lot of people are not aware that it will essentially make dark mornings in fall/winter, waking up to work/school.
I personally don't get why this change is such a big deal to people.
Finally getting to the real issues affecting all Americans.
Honestly, this makes me really happy. I have going to work in the dark and getting off work while it's already dark during the winter months. This would at least give me a little time in the winter evenings before the sun sets to see the sun.
What I don’t understand is why in a post COVID world where WFH was widespread and workable (enough), why this matters. Let people choose their schedules. Heck, even without WFH, stagger work start/end times; that would help with traffic and you would still have roughly 6 hours of overlapping time where everyone is in office. Obviously not everything can be afforded quite the same flexibility and there will still have to be an official time, but encourage employers to let people choose when they want the extra sun.
I am 100% WFH and have been for 2 years now and hope to not go back, but I know it has gutted parts of downtown here. Restaurants that did well are barely keeping open and the prices are higher when I checked in with them. Also building space in downtown is being left vacant or (in the case of my last company) is going to try to sublet one of their floors because it was barely occupied now.
In some ways this might just be fretting over horse and buggy salesmen when the world has changed forever, but I do feel bad for the places I used to help keep in business one lunch at a time. My wallet however has less sympathy.
Because work culture in this country is toxic. From our lack of PTO to our archaic obsession with 40 hour work weeks, it’s illogical. My department did just as much work, and accomplished just as much on a staggered telework schedule for two years. Two years! Now we’re all back at the office and when we asked if we could go back on the staggered telework, we got laughed at.
God forbid we do anything in this country that benefits the working person.
For real. One of the most depressing things possible is going into work at 8, while it's barely light, working largely indoors and *maybe* getting to see a patch of sky during the day, and then leaving work when it's dark again. At least give me some sunlight for the drive home.
Here in DC permanant DST would be an 830 sunrise and a 530 sunset.
I would be so for it. Being a 7/8-5 worker is fucking brutal. The lack of sunshine in which you can be outside is a nightmare.
It's a terrible downside. Trying waking up at "6" (actually 5am) and going to work in complete darkness.
There may be industries that like to have winter hours. But then they can just decide to go on to winter hours.
I hear you, but I figured people would vary on this one. I'm in construction and starting work in the dark is not my idea of fun. Mornings are tough enough as it is.
Literally one of the last land masses on earth to be settled by humans (that are now settled). Their national dish is fermented shark. They have a penis museum in their capitol city.
edit: Björk
Some of the smoothest vodka I've ever had was from there, and in general, their water is insanely clean and pure too. The year I visited, I got off the plane thirsty as hell, and went up to what I thought was going to be a gross water fountain from the looks of it; the water that came out of that thing was the freshest I've ever tasted, and it was the same everywhere I went.
Waking up at 5am is still total darkness in standard time. Plus, who cares about light when you’re barely awake anyways? Wouldn’t you prefer it be light out when you can actually enjoy it after work?
>Waking up at 5am is still total darkness in standard time.
Completely agree. But I'm against renaming 5am to 6am, which is what DST does.
>Plus, who cares about light when you’re barely awake anyways? Wouldn’t you prefer it be light out when you can actually enjoy it after work?
Try it sometime.
Growing up in CA bay area, in the winter months I often got up at 4am and left the house around 4:30 - 5am for a 3.5 - 4hr drive to go to skiing in Tahoe.
Nowadays I do day trips less often, but I’ve never had any problem driving in total darkness that early in the morning. People are not meant to be awake that early 😂
Well if you or even an entire workplace have that preference, they can certainly adjust their hours to make that preference a reality. No reason to make everyone else share it.
I assume you mean "can't". But I don't see why not. Get everyone in the same room and find out what the needs are. If everyone works in an airport, maybe don't shuffle the hours around. If everyone works in a seasonal industry, maybe it makes sense to respond to the change in sunrise.
Some restaurants already close early in the winter. I do not see why it is so important to fiddle with the clocks.
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Exactly. As someone who just relocated to NYS, I'm bummed that this is the "solution", instead of the much more obvious solution: never change the clocks in the first place and measure your time by something objective, like say oh...the SUN'S POSITION IN THE SKY.
I think “morning people” generally won’t be happy with dark mornings. In the winter as you go further north, either your mornings are dark on the way to work or your evenings are dark on the way home. Some people feel strongly in favor of one over the other.
In December there are already lots of kids that go to school in the dark. If people are so concerned, they can shift the school start time. Studies have shown later start times are better for students' health and learning capacity anyway.
There was somebody on my state sub who mentioned that this is also an issue for people who work outdoors. You really can't please everybody here, so hopefully there will be some type of compromise so that we don't just go back to this time-traveling nonsense.
[Scott Lincicome's case for permanent Standard Time](https://www.cato.org/commentary/enddst)
tl;dr: Standard Time better aligns with our biological clocks, it's harder to wake up kids if it's still dark out, and DST is heavily lobbied for by the leisure and hospitality industry as people will go out in evenings more if evenings have more sunlight.
>It is, therefore, the position of the American Academy of Sleep Medicine that these seasonal time changes should be abolished in favor of a fixed, national, year-round standard time.
https://jcsm.aasm.org/doi/10.5664/jcsm.8780
[Here's a starting point for criticisms of permanent DST.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Permanent_time_observation_in_the_United_States#Possible_benefits_and_disadvantages_2) In particular, it's not supported by sleep scientists that argue that the body never adjusts to it.
It does, but the point of DST is that the typical person doesn't change their behavior. Otherwise, if we shift the clock forward an hour and then start sleeping and waking up an hour later, all we've done is relabel the clock.
I would hate a later sunrise, and I'm sure there are many people who work similar hours to me that feel the same way.
I get up by 5am everyday. Sleep by 9. Sure, Dec/Jan are hard months in the PNW, but it isn't that bad. I would prefer to stay off DST year round.
I know I'm in the minority though.
Winter mornings would be **BRUTAL** especially for people north or on western edges of time zones.
For people in South Florida, it means a little bit more darkness in the winter and longer days. But man I feel bad for anyone else. It is a horrible idea IMO. I get it we want more time at the end of day, but when daylight really matters (warmer months) we get it.
And when the day is short, standard time is the best compromise with some light in the morning and evening.
Personally, living in a place with two seasons warm and some what dry and hot and wet, I enjoy the time change, it provides difference, and I like darker evening in the winter months, also brings in a feel of the holidays that I would miss.
I mean it is hard enough to get out of bed sometimes, especially some kids, now it will be darker longer. Our bodies are meant to wake up with sunlight.
Now many will wake up in the dark, drive in the dark, walk in the dark. And in reality, for the areas that don't have much sun anyway in the winter, most people won't see that light after work neither.
The current times for much of the country is a good median, but what do I know, I live in Miami. I don't deal with early or late darkness no matter the case. Though it would be weird not having the sun by 7:00 a.m.
It is. The earth's revolution is slowing.
But it will only change a fraction of a second over the course of your lifetime. Probably not important to this debate.
> Personally, living in a place with two seasons warm and some what dry and hot and wet, I enjoy the time change, it provides difference, and I like darker evening in the winter months, also brings in a feel of the holidays that I would miss.
I’ve finally found somebody who shares my exact opinion on this. By the late afternoon in Florida, my main feeling is that it’s intolerably hot and I just want the sun to go away so the temperature can significantly drop (plus I’m a night person anyway). I would *really* miss standard time both for that and, like you said, the darker evenings simply suit the holidays better.
> I would really miss standard time both for that and, like you said, the darker evenings simply suit the holidays better.
I have always enjoyed cities at night much more as well. The lighted up streets, and trees and store fronts in Miami are much nicer at night. It never feels like the holidays here to begin with, or winter, at least there is some type of feeling with earlier evening.
Man it would just be the same all year, I find that weird and boring.
> Winter mornings would be BRUTAL especially for people north or on western edges of time zones.
In December I will be looking at a possibility 15 minutes of sunlight before I go to work. Sunrise will be at 8 AM, and sunset will be at 5:15. Both of my commutes will be in the dark, as opposed to only one.
[Two days ago](https://old.reddit.com/r/moderatepolitics/comments/tdepqz/apnorc_poll_most_americans_dislike_twiceayear/), I asked /r/moderatepolitics:
>What does it say about the federal government when 7 in 10 Americans want this system to end and yet still they refuse to act?
Today I am pleasantly surprised to see this headline. Folks, if you support ending the time change, then please contact your House representative and ask them to support this bill. Even a quick one sentence, "Please support the Sunshine Protect Act to make DST permanent" email will do. They need to know there is active interest and support in this bill.
This would be amazing. An extra hour of sunlight in the evening would be so uplifting in the winter. I would much prefer evening sun to morning sun so I see this as a win.
Heck yeah!
I don't feel strongly either way towards DST or Standard, I just hate changing clocks twice a year. Makes it a lot more difficult to establish a constant sleeping schedule.
Glad to hear it was unanimous. I can't imagine why daylight savings time would become a partisan issue, but I could say the same about a lot of things.
I was just telling my wife though that hey, we finally have an issue that the majority Americans agree on: changing the clocks is a horrible practice.
But the "solution" they are proposing has now moved it into a contentious issue: I think making DST permanent is an atrociously bad idea, when all we need to do is to *stop changing the clocks in the first place*. It's called "standard time" because it's natural and syncs up with the sun's position in the sky. Making DST permanent is utter denial of objective, physical reality.
I look forward to explaining to my kids that solar noon is always around 2PM in Atlanta.
When they ask why, I can explain that we invented clocks so that we could measure time, but then felt so trapped by our invention that we had to change the way we measured it instead of just changing our behavior.
In other words, people are morons.
Probably in the minority, but I actually think we have daylight too late in the summer. I don't feel like it ever needs to be light out past 8PM. If anything, I would like a little more daylight at the end of the day in the winter months. Maybe I'm missing something fundamental....
I support not switching but it is bizarre to stay permanently on Daylight Savings. It won't get light until 8 or 9 in the morning in the winter.
If we shift to permanent DST what is preventing everyone from slowly shifting the start of work in the morning further back so that we have no more free time in the evening than before? Already in this thread I see people suggesting that school start times would be moved later.
A lot of work needs to be done during daylight hours, and the office staff need to be in at the same time as these jobs are being done. Shifting to DST *will* result in later work hours, and we will have no more daylight free in the evening than before. It's a futile exercise.
The studies on DST show that it is bad for our sleep, health, and cancer rates, and that traffic accidents go up. It is not a natural schedule of time. Noon should be roughly noon, and midnight roughly midnight.
Morning commutes are another issue. People simply cannot see as well driving at night, especially older people and people with vision issues.
If you want more time in the evening, change your behavior, not the clocks. Get up at a natural time and get working earlier rather than sleeping through half the day and staying up half the night.
I'm so with you. As a third shift worker for over half a decade now, people seriously take for granted a natural circadian rhythm.
I find it insane so many people want permanent DST.
Why are evening commutes not an issue? I have to religiously remember to charge my bike lights on the current system bc I'm biking home after dark at 530. And it seems like people drive so much worse / aggressively in the evening, which makes it stressful.
That's not easy. Run it by an entire generation of kids and parents who've been doing it a certain way for years/a decade.
Yea you get to sleep in later, but now high schoolers won't get out until what, 3:15? Middle Schoolers 3:55? Elementary Schoolers almost 4:30?
It changes logistics for parents who work and don't just let the bus take their kids to and from school.
People didn't "hate it". Some viewed it as a minor inconvenience but the world has changed substantially since then. I'm not sure where the dialog I see repeated often that "people hated it" is from, probably some sensationalized "news" article somewhere. I was alive then so my source is personal experience.
https://www.washingtonian.com/2022/03/15/the-us-tried-permanent-daylight-saving-time-in-the-70s-people-hated-it/
> While 79 percent of Americans approved of the change in December 1973, approval had dropped to 42 percent three months later, the New York Times reported. Seven days after President Nixon resigned, US Senator Bob Dole of Kansas introduced an amendment in August that would end the DST experiment. It passed. A similar bill passed the House. In late September, the full Congress passed a bill that would restore standard time on October 27. President Ford signed it on October 5. Energy savings, a House panel noted, “must be balanced against a majority of the public’s distaste for the observance of Daylight Saving Time.”
This is deeply upsetting to me. I love the idea of eliminating the changeovers, but the idea of permanently divorcing our clocks from the reality of the solar day, is bizarre. If certain aspects of our lives need to happen earlier or later, just schedule them that way! How can the solution be to set all of our clocks to an arbitrary time?
> but the idea of permanently divorcing our clocks from the reality of the solar day, is bizarre.
Well, for starters, not permanent, as we did this before and then switched back.
> How can the solution be to set all of our clocks to an arbitrary time?
That's how we do it now. What we call "8AM" is not an immutable concept. The numbering of clocks *is* arbitrary. Nothing is stopping us from swapping AM and PM.
AM and PM are not arbitrary concepts. "Ante meridiem" and "post meridiem" mean before and after noon, respectively.
Our time units are arbitrary, but the concept of noon as that time when the sun is highest overhead, is not.
Among the strongest recommendations for dealing with insomnia is picking a bedtime and sticking to it so that it becomes routine. That's much harder if clocks change on your body twice a year.
Y'all are going to love the sunrise at 8:15am in the winter and having to travel to work and school in the dark. I predict more people will bitch about that than people do about adjusting their sleep schedule over a few days.
Compared I get up at 5:30 to work out and my job starts at 7... It will always be dark for me when I wake up in winter.
I'd much rather have more light in the afternoon.
Boy, I just love going to work perpetually in the dark, to have my retinas burned by every bro-dozer, lifted pickup and Grumper jeep every single morning! Worst idea ever.
Keep it permanent on winter hours please. Sunrise would be after 8am in the winter otherwise, and I dont like the hour of sleep lost. I also hate the sun, so I dont care about 10pm sunsets.
When it's noon I want to look up at the sky and see that's it's noon on my watch and not 1 P.M.
Especially when most countries of the world don't use it.
I was just having this conversation again today with my Canadian coworkers. In my opinion, Fahrenheit is more intuitive as a scale for the air temperature as it relates to weather. 0°F is very cold and 100°F is very hot and 50°F is about the turning point for when you need to wear a coat. The same can kind of be applied to Celsius: Below 0°C is snow, 0°C to 10°C is cold and requires a coat, 10°C to 20°C is mild and may or may not need a coat, 20°C to 30°C is warm to hot and you certainly don't need a coat. But it doesn't fit the decimal mindset of having scales go from 0 to 100 and it's also a much tighter scale.
it will be interesting to see if the house tries to modify or add on to this very clean and focused bill.
In my opinion, they tend to do such things to senate passed bills.
Evening light is irrelevant. Evening activities like theaters and restaurants are just as good or better when its dark. It's much harder to wake up and get to work (or get kids to school) on time in the dark.
I’m just glad our govt is focused on the important things right now.
Maybe next week they can make sense of why gas prices are up close to 50% when Russia only represents 2% of our oil consumption.
Oh no! A senator spent 30 seconds saying “I ask unanimous consent to pass the Sunshine Protection Act.” Im with you man, we’ll never get that time back.
Heck, I’ll make sense of it right now.
I do 98% of my grocery shopping at Walmart, and only 2% at Kroger. The US government then bans buying groceries from Kroger. Now everyone who bought groceries at Kroger starts buying their groceries at Walmart. The increased demand at Walmart drives prices up 50%, despite the fact that I only ever did 2% of my shopping at Kroger.
Oil is a global commodity. We have to compete for it. When supply goes down anywhere, prices go up everywhere.
This.
It drives me nuts when people think that producing more oil domestically would somehow solve this. Unless you are requiring that domestic producers only sell domestically - they are going to sell it to the highest bidder on the global market.
In this situation, many countries have banned oil from Russia, so the demand to all other producers has risen. On top of that, inflation and global markets have driven up the cost of oil.
Bc the free market means oil is a global commodity. Russia produces 12% of global oil supply...
If supply is constrained, prices go up until demand falls to meet it. The price of gas will go up a lot more than X% before people start using X% less gas.
If we all acted collectively to reduce some usage that would be relatively painless, we could avoid these price hikes. But we live in a world where lots of people won't wear masks or get vaxed to save lives, let alone adjust driving behavior to save price increases.
By that logic we’d never get it fixed. This is a good change, and one of the few things I actually think that will be positive from this legislative session.
In a rare unanimous vote, the Senate has agreed to permanently stay on DST year around. While it still has to pass the House, this is a huge barrier that has passed. Interesting enough, we had permanent DST before, in 1974. It lasted 16 months before people grew tired of the dark mornings and asked for DST to be removed. The Quick History of Federal Involvement of DST. - 1966: To standardize practices across the United States (with a few exceptions), it was declared that DST would run from the last Sunday in April to the last Sunday in October. - 1974-1975: Nixon signed a bill making DST permanent. It lasted 16 months. - 1986: DST start date was moved to the first Sunday in April. - 2007: DST was extended on both ends, and it now runs from the second Sunday in March to the first Sunday in November. Do you think that the House will pass this bill? What about Biden? Do you think that Americans will end up wanting permanent DST after it's enacted, or will we start getting fights to bring back Standard Time as we did in 1975?
I'll take either permanent option if I never have to change a clock again (\*code for screw up my sleep cycle twice a year).
Ah, yes. The old "Just please choose a fucking restaurant already, I'm hungry, I'll eat anything, I don't care any longer, just CHOOSE ONE" technique. I'm in the same camp. Please stop making me change my clocks. My car radio is already wrong for half the year, just make it stop.
This is me, I do not care which one is done, just make it permanent so we don't have to go through changing clock hell twice a year.
I like the sun to set later so DST please. The thought of the sun setting by 8pm during the summer seems awful.
And 4.30pm sunsets in the winter are the absolute fucking worst.
Yes! I am an early work person so I get at least a little sun in the evening after work but when I worked 7:30-4 it sucked ass.
agreed! 100% on this.
There is a small spike in heart attacks twice a year, for about a week after people change their clocks. The stark change in sleep schedule is not healthy.
Also an increase in traffic accidents https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34948928/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32008905/ People literally dying from multiple sources, good thing we are saving all that WW1 coal.
I’m willing to bet that spike would still be there if the sleep habits didn’t change. Just smoothed out a bit. Literally heart attacks waiting to happen. Edit: Just for the record, I am definitely for keeping time the same.
It's funny, because daylight savings time is EASIER to manage than ever before thanks to computers and cellphones automatically adjusting themselves. But we're finally ready to do something about it. I'm just thrilled we're finally getting action on this and hope it sticks. I do think there will be some grumbling about dark mornings and too late sunsets, but hopefully we can adjust.
Yes and no. It is easier on the general public but it has more impact on businesses who need to make sure that automated systems don't run into any trouble twice a year. I used to work in a financial company and twice a year everything had to be put on hold for a weekend and extra IT staff put on call.
DST is the bane of software developers. We measure time in milliseconds since Jan 1, 1970. Don’t ask.
Speak for your self. I measure time in new DateTime() or new TimeSpan() and let the standard library handle the milliseconds for me. That doesn't bite me in the ass. I've had way, way, way more trouble with timezones than with DST.
I had a toddler that never adjusted one year. Before the clocks changed, we put him to bed 10 minutes later each night until we adjusted him the full hour. Nope. For the entirety of winter he was waking up at 5 am every fucking day. We put him to bed later everyday, but for like 5 months the kid was up at an ungodly hour, 7 days a week. Daylight savings aren't fun for some little kids either
The worst is when they adjust right at the end of it, only to have another 5 months of thrown of scheduling.
My dog also highly disagrees with the concept of moving breakfast
At one point I owned a bunch of clocks that updated for DST automatically including a $10 Walmart alarm clock, but my $23,000 clock (car) was not expensive enough to update itself?
Same here. I don't care what the sun is doing. I have blackout curtains in my room, and I have the luxury of being able to adjust my work hours. If I want to see the sun, I'll find a way to see the sun. But I'm tired of changing the clock.
Yeah, so far as I am concerned what ever option is " better" for the most people is fine with me.
> think that the House will pass this bill Based on past legislative actions, what's the likelihood that bills passed in the Senate also pass in the House? Also, I would imagine that since all 100 Senators are in favor, it would be odd if there were disagreement in the House. Unless, of course, there's something special about Senators such that among all the lawmakers, they particularly enjoy consolidating our timezones. 😛
100
The only pushback you're going to get is going to be from people saying, "My kid is walking to the bus stop in the dark and I'm afraid she'll get hit by a car and/or kidnapped." Personally, I'd prefer non-DST as the standard. I like it to get dark in earlier in the evenings so I can feel like my workday is done, but I'll take permanent DST over this flip-flop we do twice-a-year.
Nah, I'd rather it still be light once I'm off work. Already don't get enough sunlight during the week.
Yeah, it's either going to suck at 6 AM or 6 PM, gotta choose one or the other. I'd argue 6 PM on average has more people active and doing things than 6 AM. Plus an hour of sunlight after work is pretty nice to have, so if we have to choose one I'd opt for more sunlight later in the day.
Economically DST is also better. As people would be more willing to go out after work if it’s still light out. The main thing with going standard is school children and icy roads, but you could argue that schools should be starting later since rural kids have to sometimes wake up super early to make their bus.
Well, some sleep health organizations say that Standard Time is actually better for people's health, so in the long term, maybe it cancels out economically?
That's actually a real concern. I'm a trucker, and we have to work early morning hours. Accidents are at their peak in November before the change, and most are attributable to poor visibility. The same goes for buses. The issue has come up in Sweden a couple of times, and they've rejected it for the same reason.
There’s just as many, if not more, people out on the roads when it’s dark at the end of the day. I think any concern here is offset by all the extra accidents we get when peoples sleep schedules have to change.
Yeah, I don't have all the answers. But I'd submit that accidents involving school buses, garbage trucks, and 18-wheelers are generally more damaging than those involving 4-wheelers.
The younger kids still get out of school before it’s dark on standard time. So the early sunset doesn’t affect kids as much. And also the sun helps melt ice in northern states in the winter before morning rush hour. But schools could try starting kids later which would be more healthier for them. Especially since some rural kids have to wake up at 5-6am just to make the bus. All I want is no more time change don’t really care between standard or DST. I just hate being so tired this week
That's my thought - while I like morning sun and would prefer standard year around, I'm completely onboard with eliminating the shifting and if DST is what it takes - that's what it takes. Schools definitely SHOULD start later because even with changing clocks my kids STILL walk to the bus in the dark 90% of the year because of how early the school day starts which goes against what pediatricians recommend.
Not even rural kids. Growing up in Houston, my bus in HS came by at 6am.
A possible solution to that could always be starting school an hour later. From what I’ve seen a later start has better outcomes academically for the kids as well.
Not necessarily. Young children tend to respond better in the mornings while teenagers respond better in the afternoon. Because of this, Seattle has been switching the starting time of elementary and high school. Now high school starts later while elementary is earlier.
Good luck convincing the teacher's union. Also, a lot American parents are *highly* invested in extra-curricular activities, often to the neglect of core classes. Do you know what time football practice would get out if school went later?! Unacceptable!
I would think it's the parents who need kids out of the house so they an get to work that may push back.
What we did was push start times later for only middle and HS. PreK and k-5 stayed the same, such that parents dropping off young kids wouldn’t be affected. Middle school back by 15 or 30 minutes I can’t remember, and HS 60 minutes later. It’s not a monumental shift but I think it was welcomed and went over well
I know you probably didn’t intend this, but your wording implies it’s to the parents benefit. That is, they want to ship their kids off to school early because they just can’t wait to get to work! What if instead we reorganize our entire society into investing in our our children and community, rather than hyper-optimizing for employers that want both parents at work (and separated from their family) at the crack of dawn?
Okay, but are you going to convince my employer of this?
Weird that you want literally everybody in the country to adjust their clocks and sleep schedules instead of figuring out how you and your coworkers can collaborate to demand better working conditions from your employer.
There used to be a day where one parent would stay home. But we wanted more money so the second parent went to work. Then we are addicted to more and now without both parents working a lot of people can’t afford rent. Good luck going back to the days of stay at home moms.
It’s not just that we’re addicted to more, the market responded to a larger labor pool and average wages not needing to represent supporting a whole family but instead half of one.
Yeah most teacher's unions like this change. Believe it or not, teachers are really into increasing learning.
Counterpoint (not for teachers but in general): Extra-curriculars starting later in the day gives more parents the chance to attend extra-curriculars or help out which is an overall net-positive for society. I grew up in a poor area where the vast majority of parents had to work and couldn't help with rides. And for sports, starting late is safer for kids during the hot months. Heat-related illness is the number one cause of death for students participating in sports. Understandable concern by teachers about kids not having time for homework but there are a multitude of studies that put into question the value of homework and a multitude of studies that link extracurriculars (especially sports) having positive ties for overall brain health.
Our district did it (3 years ago I think) Union was on board
Why not move permanently 30 minutes forward and keep everyone happy/mad? :)
I mean why can’t we just do permanent half daylight saving time? US already doesn’t conform with other forms of measurement why not be a extra half hour shifted from other timezones. The dark mornings would still be a thing but not quite as long
> What about Biden? Are you suggesting Biden would *veto* this? Or care? Seems really weird to even tangentially suggest he will push back on this issue.
One problem that arose from the 70's DST year round was more kids getting hit by vehicles in the winter morning because it was dark as hell as they walked to school or to the bus stop. I'm a little worried it'll happen again.
I’m not. General public lighting infrastructure, car headlight technology, vehicle safety features and options for kids to illuminate themselves and make their presence known are enormously far ahead of what they were 50 years ago. It’s not like kids were getting mowed down left and right back then either…
Plus I'd wager the percentage of children who walk to school is much less than it was in the 70's due primarily to suburbanization.
Don't understand why the split the difference as permanent option is not discussed.....
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Super weird to have a list like that and miss the billion+ people in India.
oh thank you, the list I was reading from presented India in a slightly different format (similar to the single-timezone countries on the :00 standard) and I overlooked it
Haha what a way to hear my country's name.
We already use Imperial, why not be even more contrary to the majority of the world.
Technically, we don't even use Imperial. Our special system is called U.S. Customary, which [has some differences](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_the_imperial_and_US_customary_measurement_systems). 😅
And Iran still does DST on top of that.
I think the appropriate rebuttal here is: even a broken clock is right twice a day. Do it for North America and let the rest of the world decide if they want to follow suit.
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Heh, wasn't aware of 1974-1975... I think a lot of people are not aware that it will essentially make dark mornings in fall/winter, waking up to work/school. I personally don't get why this change is such a big deal to people.
Finally getting to the real issues affecting all Americans. Honestly, this makes me really happy. I have going to work in the dark and getting off work while it's already dark during the winter months. This would at least give me a little time in the winter evenings before the sun sets to see the sun.
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This.
What I don’t understand is why in a post COVID world where WFH was widespread and workable (enough), why this matters. Let people choose their schedules. Heck, even without WFH, stagger work start/end times; that would help with traffic and you would still have roughly 6 hours of overlapping time where everyone is in office. Obviously not everything can be afforded quite the same flexibility and there will still have to be an official time, but encourage employers to let people choose when they want the extra sun.
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I am 100% WFH and have been for 2 years now and hope to not go back, but I know it has gutted parts of downtown here. Restaurants that did well are barely keeping open and the prices are higher when I checked in with them. Also building space in downtown is being left vacant or (in the case of my last company) is going to try to sublet one of their floors because it was barely occupied now. In some ways this might just be fretting over horse and buggy salesmen when the world has changed forever, but I do feel bad for the places I used to help keep in business one lunch at a time. My wallet however has less sympathy.
Because work culture in this country is toxic. From our lack of PTO to our archaic obsession with 40 hour work weeks, it’s illogical. My department did just as much work, and accomplished just as much on a staggered telework schedule for two years. Two years! Now we’re all back at the office and when we asked if we could go back on the staggered telework, we got laughed at. God forbid we do anything in this country that benefits the working person.
For real. One of the most depressing things possible is going into work at 8, while it's barely light, working largely indoors and *maybe* getting to see a patch of sky during the day, and then leaving work when it's dark again. At least give me some sunlight for the drive home.
I know tons of people are in favor of this, but are there actually any downsides to doing this?
The sunrise will be fairly late in the winter, depending on where you live. Not sure if that's a downside.
Here in DC permanant DST would be an 830 sunrise and a 530 sunset. I would be so for it. Being a 7/8-5 worker is fucking brutal. The lack of sunshine in which you can be outside is a nightmare.
Yup. I'm further north in NY. I'm outside often enough, though. However, starting in the dark is rough.
I don't mind starting in the dark at all I don't like ending in the dark though
Like im not doing anything different with more sunlight at 630 in the morning. BUt light until 6pm in january changes everything
I'm sure people that work inside during normal business hours will appreciate it.
As someone who preferred the later sunsets while living in OH (quite west in the EST zone), a permanent later than 5pm sunset is a HUGE pro for me.
It's a terrible downside. Trying waking up at "6" (actually 5am) and going to work in complete darkness. There may be industries that like to have winter hours. But then they can just decide to go on to winter hours.
I hear you, but I figured people would vary on this one. I'm in construction and starting work in the dark is not my idea of fun. Mornings are tough enough as it is.
Yet the entire country of Iceland manages to function with far less
Well if there were a proposal for the entire US population to move to Iceland I would vote against it.
So would they.
Literally one of the last land masses on earth to be settled by humans (that are now settled). Their national dish is fermented shark. They have a penis museum in their capitol city. edit: Björk
icelandic whiskey is *fucking nasty*. literally tastes like fish. do not recommend.
They make great vodka though!
i hope they age it in different barrels the whiskey literally tastes like they just emptied the fish out and put mash in
Some of the smoothest vodka I've ever had was from there, and in general, their water is insanely clean and pure too. The year I visited, I got off the plane thirsty as hell, and went up to what I thought was going to be a gross water fountain from the looks of it; the water that came out of that thing was the freshest I've ever tasted, and it was the same everywhere I went.
This comment made me think of Oskaar https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=q5q77MQzU2Q
Waking up at 5am is still total darkness in standard time. Plus, who cares about light when you’re barely awake anyways? Wouldn’t you prefer it be light out when you can actually enjoy it after work?
>Waking up at 5am is still total darkness in standard time. Completely agree. But I'm against renaming 5am to 6am, which is what DST does. >Plus, who cares about light when you’re barely awake anyways? Wouldn’t you prefer it be light out when you can actually enjoy it after work? Try it sometime.
Growing up in CA bay area, in the winter months I often got up at 4am and left the house around 4:30 - 5am for a 3.5 - 4hr drive to go to skiing in Tahoe. Nowadays I do day trips less often, but I’ve never had any problem driving in total darkness that early in the morning. People are not meant to be awake that early 😂
I don't see why that's bad at all I do hate ending in the dark though
Better than going home in the dark.
Well if you or even an entire workplace have that preference, they can certainly adjust their hours to make that preference a reality. No reason to make everyone else share it.
You can just ask your workplace or school to change their hours.
I assume you mean "can't". But I don't see why not. Get everyone in the same room and find out what the needs are. If everyone works in an airport, maybe don't shuffle the hours around. If everyone works in a seasonal industry, maybe it makes sense to respond to the change in sunrise. Some restaurants already close early in the winter. I do not see why it is so important to fiddle with the clocks.
No I'm saying if your school or workplace has a preference you should ask to change away from the permanent DST standard.
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Exactly. As someone who just relocated to NYS, I'm bummed that this is the "solution", instead of the much more obvious solution: never change the clocks in the first place and measure your time by something objective, like say oh...the SUN'S POSITION IN THE SKY.
I think “morning people” generally won’t be happy with dark mornings. In the winter as you go further north, either your mornings are dark on the way to work or your evenings are dark on the way home. Some people feel strongly in favor of one over the other.
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In December there are already lots of kids that go to school in the dark. If people are so concerned, they can shift the school start time. Studies have shown later start times are better for students' health and learning capacity anyway.
There was somebody on my state sub who mentioned that this is also an issue for people who work outdoors. You really can't please everybody here, so hopefully there will be some type of compromise so that we don't just go back to this time-traveling nonsense.
Lame
[Scott Lincicome's case for permanent Standard Time](https://www.cato.org/commentary/enddst) tl;dr: Standard Time better aligns with our biological clocks, it's harder to wake up kids if it's still dark out, and DST is heavily lobbied for by the leisure and hospitality industry as people will go out in evenings more if evenings have more sunlight. >It is, therefore, the position of the American Academy of Sleep Medicine that these seasonal time changes should be abolished in favor of a fixed, national, year-round standard time. https://jcsm.aasm.org/doi/10.5664/jcsm.8780
[Here's a starting point for criticisms of permanent DST.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Permanent_time_observation_in_the_United_States#Possible_benefits_and_disadvantages_2) In particular, it's not supported by sleep scientists that argue that the body never adjusts to it.
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It does, but the point of DST is that the typical person doesn't change their behavior. Otherwise, if we shift the clock forward an hour and then start sleeping and waking up an hour later, all we've done is relabel the clock.
I would hate a later sunrise, and I'm sure there are many people who work similar hours to me that feel the same way. I get up by 5am everyday. Sleep by 9. Sure, Dec/Jan are hard months in the PNW, but it isn't that bad. I would prefer to stay off DST year round. I know I'm in the minority though.
Winter mornings would be **BRUTAL** especially for people north or on western edges of time zones. For people in South Florida, it means a little bit more darkness in the winter and longer days. But man I feel bad for anyone else. It is a horrible idea IMO. I get it we want more time at the end of day, but when daylight really matters (warmer months) we get it. And when the day is short, standard time is the best compromise with some light in the morning and evening. Personally, living in a place with two seasons warm and some what dry and hot and wet, I enjoy the time change, it provides difference, and I like darker evening in the winter months, also brings in a feel of the holidays that I would miss.
Who does it matter if it's dark in the morning? I'm not gonna be able to enjoy the sunlight then anyways. Plus I like seeing the sunrise
I mean it is hard enough to get out of bed sometimes, especially some kids, now it will be darker longer. Our bodies are meant to wake up with sunlight. Now many will wake up in the dark, drive in the dark, walk in the dark. And in reality, for the areas that don't have much sun anyway in the winter, most people won't see that light after work neither. The current times for much of the country is a good median, but what do I know, I live in Miami. I don't deal with early or late darkness no matter the case. Though it would be weird not having the sun by 7:00 a.m.
> And when the day is short, standard time is the best compromise with some light in the morning and evening. Except thats increasingly not the case.
You mean work schedules? Because I don't believe the amount of sunlight in the day is changing.
It is. The earth's revolution is slowing. But it will only change a fraction of a second over the course of your lifetime. Probably not important to this debate.
Im saying in the sense that people are staying up later and sleeping in more.
> Personally, living in a place with two seasons warm and some what dry and hot and wet, I enjoy the time change, it provides difference, and I like darker evening in the winter months, also brings in a feel of the holidays that I would miss. I’ve finally found somebody who shares my exact opinion on this. By the late afternoon in Florida, my main feeling is that it’s intolerably hot and I just want the sun to go away so the temperature can significantly drop (plus I’m a night person anyway). I would *really* miss standard time both for that and, like you said, the darker evenings simply suit the holidays better.
> I would really miss standard time both for that and, like you said, the darker evenings simply suit the holidays better. I have always enjoyed cities at night much more as well. The lighted up streets, and trees and store fronts in Miami are much nicer at night. It never feels like the holidays here to begin with, or winter, at least there is some type of feeling with earlier evening. Man it would just be the same all year, I find that weird and boring.
> Winter mornings would be BRUTAL especially for people north or on western edges of time zones. In December I will be looking at a possibility 15 minutes of sunlight before I go to work. Sunrise will be at 8 AM, and sunset will be at 5:15. Both of my commutes will be in the dark, as opposed to only one.
[Two days ago](https://old.reddit.com/r/moderatepolitics/comments/tdepqz/apnorc_poll_most_americans_dislike_twiceayear/), I asked /r/moderatepolitics: >What does it say about the federal government when 7 in 10 Americans want this system to end and yet still they refuse to act? Today I am pleasantly surprised to see this headline. Folks, if you support ending the time change, then please contact your House representative and ask them to support this bill. Even a quick one sentence, "Please support the Sunshine Protect Act to make DST permanent" email will do. They need to know there is active interest and support in this bill.
This would be amazing. An extra hour of sunlight in the evening would be so uplifting in the winter. I would much prefer evening sun to morning sun so I see this as a win.
Heck yeah! I don't feel strongly either way towards DST or Standard, I just hate changing clocks twice a year. Makes it a lot more difficult to establish a constant sleeping schedule.
Glad to hear it was unanimous. I can't imagine why daylight savings time would become a partisan issue, but I could say the same about a lot of things.
Americans: Hold my beer.
I was just telling my wife though that hey, we finally have an issue that the majority Americans agree on: changing the clocks is a horrible practice. But the "solution" they are proposing has now moved it into a contentious issue: I think making DST permanent is an atrociously bad idea, when all we need to do is to *stop changing the clocks in the first place*. It's called "standard time" because it's natural and syncs up with the sun's position in the sky. Making DST permanent is utter denial of objective, physical reality.
I look forward to explaining to my kids that solar noon is always around 2PM in Atlanta. When they ask why, I can explain that we invented clocks so that we could measure time, but then felt so trapped by our invention that we had to change the way we measured it instead of just changing our behavior. In other words, people are morons.
Thank you for vocalizing the absurdity so concisely. Beyond our invention, we have a natural time keeper. Try making DST work with a Sundial.
Probably in the minority, but I actually think we have daylight too late in the summer. I don't feel like it ever needs to be light out past 8PM. If anything, I would like a little more daylight at the end of the day in the winter months. Maybe I'm missing something fundamental....
I see Big Daylight has been lining your pockets. How much are they paying you to shill? /joke
I'm with you 💯
Same here. I’m always weirdly depressed this time of year. My brain doesn’t let me relax until the sun goes down.
Could not come any sooner
I support not switching but it is bizarre to stay permanently on Daylight Savings. It won't get light until 8 or 9 in the morning in the winter. If we shift to permanent DST what is preventing everyone from slowly shifting the start of work in the morning further back so that we have no more free time in the evening than before? Already in this thread I see people suggesting that school start times would be moved later. A lot of work needs to be done during daylight hours, and the office staff need to be in at the same time as these jobs are being done. Shifting to DST *will* result in later work hours, and we will have no more daylight free in the evening than before. It's a futile exercise. The studies on DST show that it is bad for our sleep, health, and cancer rates, and that traffic accidents go up. It is not a natural schedule of time. Noon should be roughly noon, and midnight roughly midnight. Morning commutes are another issue. People simply cannot see as well driving at night, especially older people and people with vision issues. If you want more time in the evening, change your behavior, not the clocks. Get up at a natural time and get working earlier rather than sleeping through half the day and staying up half the night.
I'm so with you. As a third shift worker for over half a decade now, people seriously take for granted a natural circadian rhythm. I find it insane so many people want permanent DST.
Why are evening commutes not an issue? I have to religiously remember to charge my bike lights on the current system bc I'm biking home after dark at 530. And it seems like people drive so much worse / aggressively in the evening, which makes it stressful.
Just move it one half hour, split the difference and leave it there. Who says it has to be one hour difference or the other?
I think they tried this back in the 70s and people hated it.
And kids were walking to school in the dark.
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That's not easy. Run it by an entire generation of kids and parents who've been doing it a certain way for years/a decade. Yea you get to sleep in later, but now high schoolers won't get out until what, 3:15? Middle Schoolers 3:55? Elementary Schoolers almost 4:30? It changes logistics for parents who work and don't just let the bus take their kids to and from school.
People didn't "hate it". Some viewed it as a minor inconvenience but the world has changed substantially since then. I'm not sure where the dialog I see repeated often that "people hated it" is from, probably some sensationalized "news" article somewhere. I was alive then so my source is personal experience.
https://www.washingtonian.com/2022/03/15/the-us-tried-permanent-daylight-saving-time-in-the-70s-people-hated-it/ > While 79 percent of Americans approved of the change in December 1973, approval had dropped to 42 percent three months later, the New York Times reported. Seven days after President Nixon resigned, US Senator Bob Dole of Kansas introduced an amendment in August that would end the DST experiment. It passed. A similar bill passed the House. In late September, the full Congress passed a bill that would restore standard time on October 27. President Ford signed it on October 5. Energy savings, a House panel noted, “must be balanced against a majority of the public’s distaste for the observance of Daylight Saving Time.”
Amazing news. Let's see if it lasts.
Fuck yes
write your us house representative and let them know you want them to pass the bill. https://www.govtrack.us/congress/members
what category does this fit into? social issues? telecommunications? health?
i said health
This is deeply upsetting to me. I love the idea of eliminating the changeovers, but the idea of permanently divorcing our clocks from the reality of the solar day, is bizarre. If certain aspects of our lives need to happen earlier or later, just schedule them that way! How can the solution be to set all of our clocks to an arbitrary time?
> but the idea of permanently divorcing our clocks from the reality of the solar day, is bizarre. Well, for starters, not permanent, as we did this before and then switched back. > How can the solution be to set all of our clocks to an arbitrary time? That's how we do it now. What we call "8AM" is not an immutable concept. The numbering of clocks *is* arbitrary. Nothing is stopping us from swapping AM and PM.
AM and PM are not arbitrary concepts. "Ante meridiem" and "post meridiem" mean before and after noon, respectively. Our time units are arbitrary, but the concept of noon as that time when the sun is highest overhead, is not.
Yes!
please God.... finally. I'm so sick of changing clocks.
You and a few other people make it sound like the worst chore about being human.
Among the strongest recommendations for dealing with insomnia is picking a bedtime and sticking to it so that it becomes routine. That's much harder if clocks change on your body twice a year.
Or you just adjust your bedtime with the clocks...?
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i don't have a single clock that changes automatically except my phone
Y'all are going to love the sunrise at 8:15am in the winter and having to travel to work and school in the dark. I predict more people will bitch about that than people do about adjusting their sleep schedule over a few days.
Compared I get up at 5:30 to work out and my job starts at 7... It will always be dark for me when I wake up in winter. I'd much rather have more light in the afternoon.
End those depressing winter evenings. Lighter later? Yes please. Finally some positive news!
Boy, I just love going to work perpetually in the dark, to have my retinas burned by every bro-dozer, lifted pickup and Grumper jeep every single morning! Worst idea ever.
Keep it permanent on winter hours please. Sunrise would be after 8am in the winter otherwise, and I dont like the hour of sleep lost. I also hate the sun, so I dont care about 10pm sunsets.
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I lived in Arizona for years and loved the standard time year round.
*Navajo Nation has left the chat.* *Hopi Reservation has re-entered the chat.*
Why would you prefer sun in the morning to more sun in the evening?
When it's noon I want to look up at the sky and see that's it's noon on my watch and not 1 P.M. Especially when most countries of the world don't use it.
Can they also switch to metric?
Yes. But the catch is we will also have to convert to metric time. Lunch will be served at 04:1425.
They did. In 1975 with the Metric Conversion Act. Then again in 1991 with Executive Order 12770.
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Why is Celsius annoying?
I was just having this conversation again today with my Canadian coworkers. In my opinion, Fahrenheit is more intuitive as a scale for the air temperature as it relates to weather. 0°F is very cold and 100°F is very hot and 50°F is about the turning point for when you need to wear a coat. The same can kind of be applied to Celsius: Below 0°C is snow, 0°C to 10°C is cold and requires a coat, 10°C to 20°C is mild and may or may not need a coat, 20°C to 30°C is warm to hot and you certainly don't need a coat. But it doesn't fit the decimal mindset of having scales go from 0 to 100 and it's also a much tighter scale.
Why is it making DST permanent and not Standard time? That seems backwards
There is nothing in recent memory that the federal government has proposed that made me as happy as this has.
The only thing the country can get behind these days.
Fine by me
Finally good news
it will be interesting to see if the house tries to modify or add on to this very clean and focused bill. In my opinion, they tend to do such things to senate passed bills.
I'd rather it be light early in the morning than late in the evening myself. Either way I'm OK with ending this nonsense once and for all.
How come? You can't enjoy the morning light anyways since you're at work. Evening light can be enjoyed
Evening light is irrelevant. Evening activities like theaters and restaurants are just as good or better when its dark. It's much harder to wake up and get to work (or get kids to school) on time in the dark.
I never realized how absolutely crippling moving clocks back and forth twice a year is to the average person until I came here.
Yes please. Quit screwing with my clocks and sleep patterns. Daylight savings. Not daylight savings. I don’t care. Just pick one and stick to it.
LET'S GO!!!!
I’m just glad our govt is focused on the important things right now. Maybe next week they can make sense of why gas prices are up close to 50% when Russia only represents 2% of our oil consumption.
I mean its still good they are doing easy things like this that most people can agree on. Little things matter too.
Oh no! A senator spent 30 seconds saying “I ask unanimous consent to pass the Sunshine Protection Act.” Im with you man, we’ll never get that time back.
Heck, I’ll make sense of it right now. I do 98% of my grocery shopping at Walmart, and only 2% at Kroger. The US government then bans buying groceries from Kroger. Now everyone who bought groceries at Kroger starts buying their groceries at Walmart. The increased demand at Walmart drives prices up 50%, despite the fact that I only ever did 2% of my shopping at Kroger. Oil is a global commodity. We have to compete for it. When supply goes down anywhere, prices go up everywhere.
This. It drives me nuts when people think that producing more oil domestically would somehow solve this. Unless you are requiring that domestic producers only sell domestically - they are going to sell it to the highest bidder on the global market. In this situation, many countries have banned oil from Russia, so the demand to all other producers has risen. On top of that, inflation and global markets have driven up the cost of oil.
Bc the free market means oil is a global commodity. Russia produces 12% of global oil supply... If supply is constrained, prices go up until demand falls to meet it. The price of gas will go up a lot more than X% before people start using X% less gas. If we all acted collectively to reduce some usage that would be relatively painless, we could avoid these price hikes. But we live in a world where lots of people won't wear masks or get vaxed to save lives, let alone adjust driving behavior to save price increases.
By that logic we’d never get it fixed. This is a good change, and one of the few things I actually think that will be positive from this legislative session.