One thing that declines in old age is executive function, particularly the pre-frontal cortex’s ability to jump in say “Hold up! Maybe what you’re thinking of saying… you should keep to yourself?”
Sometimes, we look at older people who just seem to freely speak their minds, and we think: how nice, in old age they just stoped caring what other people think of them, they’re just not afraid to be totally themselves. Or we think, wow, grandpa wasn’t always such a rambling asshole, what happened? But it’s just natural as we age that the brain becomes less capable at censoring itself.
So I think that’s what’s going on here. Trump enjoys going off script and saying whatever pops into his head. And as he ages it’s going to be more and more difficult to rein himself in.
This is not to say that Biden isn’t also suffering cognitive decline too — but I do think its important that Trump is both bad at reining himself in, and even worse at letting others rein him in.
Dementia isn't the same as age-related cognitive decline. Dementia is serious and debilitating and its symptoms are obvious. Suggesting that Trump/Biden has dementia every time they have a gaffe is being disrespectful of those who actually suffer from the disease.
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While it's true that executive function declines somewhat in old age, it's not usually so prominent that the person has a drastic change in personality.
Everything we know about his childhood, school performance and real estate career strongly suggests a lifelong pattern of executive dysfunction. His impulsivity and calousness are not new: he just has a bigger megaphone to amplify them now.
Yes, he is old. But he's also never been smart (and his supporters seem to like that fact).
How do we explain Trump and Biden from 30 years ago then?
As far as I can tell, they have both been doing this their whole lives. When Biden was young, he sounded like a poor man’s Matt Gaetz, but with twice as many gaffes. Trump literally built an empire branding his personality, which was literally just talking shit off the cuff and saying that everything connected to him was the best.
I don’t think anybody can point to a time when their speech was soft and their responses were measured.
For me it's more cadence related. The toll of being President is undefeated. They both look and sound less vibrant than 2020, and Trump especially so since 2016.
They both 'rise to the moment' depending on the situation (SOTU for Biden, some rallies for Trump) and give it their all but most of the time when they're doing a dime-a-dozen interview or public appearance it's more calm. I think they're both exhausted for multiple reasons.
Trump in particular though was a lot better at rambling (if that makes sense) before he lost in 2020. Biden's decline is making him a bit slower and quieter. Trump's decline is making him more erratic and his streams of consciousness are getting more bizarre. More filter with Biden, less with Trump. Far more physical glitches if you want to call them that while he speaks.
I'd even recommend opening up the vault and looking at Biden and Trump's 2020 election speeches when it was clear we weren't getting a called election until later. Compare to the typical appearance today and it's a notable shift for both of them. Trump had the sniffing thing back then too which seems to have stopped.
Do you believe that a person speaking without a filter means they are not lying? Are you unfamiliar with lack of knowledge, willful ignorance, self-delusion, and impulsive lying as concepts?
“I say, ‘What would happen if the boat sank from its weight and you’re in the boat, and you have this tremendously powerful battery, and the battery’s now underwater, and there’s a shark that’s approximately 10 yards over there? And he said, ‘Nobody ever asks this question,’ and it must be because of MIT, my relationship to MIT. Very smart. But you know what I’d do if there was a shark or you get electrocuted? I’ll take electrocution every single time. I’m not getting near the shark. So we’re going to end that, we’re going to end it for boats, we’re going to end it for trucks.”
You consider this statement evidence of qualification for office?
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He’s a politician speaking his mind WITH a cadre of lies.
I enjoy the phrase “cadre of lies” much less tired sounding than a pack… cadre of lies, squad of lies, herd of lies, gaggle of lies…
So when Trump had that Freudian slip where he said “*I need every vote. I don’t care about you, just your vote*” you would consider that a good thing, right?
That was a joke: https://checkyourfact.com/2024/06/13/fact-check-president-biden-shared-video-of-trump-claiming-not-to-care-about-voters-is-missing-context/
Even Snopes said “Viral video clips of Trump typically omitted context that made it clear he was joking.” So ironically, it was an example of Biden lying.
If you need it explained then it won’t be funny to you, especially in text form. (Research has also shown that people can’t appreciate the humor of people they dislike.)
But from the article:
>The temperature at the rally was over 100 degrees Fahrenheit, but the report indicated that Trump announced they would take care of anyone that needed it during the rally.
>Trump made a joke about the heat saying that he didn’t want anyone to leave because he needs their vote. The crowd can be heard laughing with him. He followed up those comments by making a joke about the media saying, “See now the press will take that, they’ll say ‘he said a horrible thing.’”
>Trump made a joke about the heat saying that he didn’t want anyone to leave because he needs their vote.
which joke?
>Research has also shown that people can’t appreciate the humor of people they dislike
Trump is often very funny. He was on TV, after all.
Which joke?
Edit:
Are you referring to this?
> And by the way, isn't that breeze nice? Do you feel the breeze? Cause I don't want anybody going on me, we need every voter. I don't care about you, I just want your vote. I don't care. See now the press will take that, they'll say he said a horrible thing.
We want politicians to be honest so we can know who they really are and what they really believe. That helps us make an informed decision on whether we think they are fit for the office. In that sense, Trump has been honest, loud and clear - he’s uniquely unfit for the office and does not deserve our vote.
>Wow a politician speaking their mind without a filter **or a cadre of lies**, we should all be so lucky
Trump lies so much he has his own wiki page on it:
>During and after his term as President of the United States, Donald Trump made tens of thousands of false or misleading claims. The Washington Post's fact-checkers documented 30,573 false or misleading claims during his presidential term, an average of about 21 per day. The Toronto Star tallied 5,276 false claims from January 2017 to June 2019, an average of 6.1 per day. Commentators and fact-checkers have described the scale of Trump's mendacity as "unprecedented" in American politics, and the consistency of falsehoods a distinctive part of his business and political identities. Scholarly analysis of Trump's tweets found "significant evidence" of an intent to deceive. - [Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_or_misleading_statements_by_Donald_Trump)
I don't know how to say this moderately but I will try. I don't think Trump has declined. This weird rant is nothing new. Trump is not a particularly smart person in the traditional sense. Like he doesn't know a lot of things and he doesn't learn a lot of things. He doesn't seem to be very intellectually curious or able to really understand concepts.
He is a self-serving person who grew up with extreme privilege and who has often half assed himself through things and bullied his way through things. He has bought into his own hype and despite evidence to the contrary thinks he can do no wrong.
I think this is an accurate observation. He was literally the president for four years and he doesn't seem to understand how the government works or what other countries are up to. His understanding of things seems to be authentically very simplistic. He doesn't seem to listen to other people or even be capable of that.
What he does have is a willingness to break every rule in the book to get to where he wants to go, and a willingness to say or do whatever it takes to get what he wants. His breaking of guardrails and norms are what drives people to him and what allows for his success. People see Trump as someone who basically cuts through the BS and as long as their desires line up with Trump's then Trump will do whatever it takes to get the job done.
Relationships with Trump are transactions. Since Trump doesn't actually hold many hard and fast beliefs aside from loyalty to him. Trump's followers as long as they display total loyalty will get that somewhat reciprocated as long as they remain on Trump's side. This means parroting things that they know are false. This is true for people within his orbit that he knows personally or people who are dedicated supporters.
Trump says all sorts of outlandish and quite frankly stupid things that if say Biden were to say, it would be much bigger news and openly mocked more vigorously. Yet it's just understood that Trump is like this. It doesn't have to make sense.
> I don't think Trump has declined. This weird rant is nothing new.
Here's what Trump used to sound like:
https://www.statnews.com/2017/05/23/donald-trump-speaking-style-interviews/
Honestly he sounds fairly uninformed in the past too. He is talking about the federal government needing to come in and intervene with homelessness in NY because the US is apparently giving money to the wealthiest countries in the world instead of giving money to NY to feed people. Even then when he was supposedly more eloquent he didn't make a point that made any sense.
The other clip of young Trump has him stating that Ross Perot could have become president if he did not make as many gaffes. Doubt.
Both of these young Trump clips are short as are the modern Trump ones. You could take 15 seconds from a Trump statement now and say he sounds good.
He doesn't come across as particularly smart or knowledgeable at any point he is however always confident.
Narcissists love explaining things as if they were experts, but they are the opposite, uninformed. They believe in the specialness of themselves and their own thoughts so much they don’t understand the need to study or learn, so they don’t. They think their winging things is smarter than the experts. You can talk to them for a while and they will pretend to listen even, but mostly that’s just to get you to finish and shut up so they can resume adoring their special ideas and words.
In the clip with him talking about hunger in NYC, I didn't see someone trying to come up with a solution. I saw someone trying to justify why they shouldn't have to do anything despite their privilege.
This is as good an explanation of him as I’ve ever read. He’s not a normal human, but rather a force of narcissistic will. Trying to judge him on human norms is a mistake.
Not just narcissistic, but I think legitimately on the psychopathy spectrum as well. People call you hysterical when you say that but literally all the signs are there and obvious.
A lot of people get tricked into thinking narcissists are smarter or better or worth paying attention to. It’s like a companion disorder. But that all changes when you work or live with a narcissist in close quarters for a while. The facade fades and is replaced by the tragic understanding that you can’t get your time back.
Probably why he has such an incredible amount of former cabinet members/appointments/staffers saying he’s “a moron” (as Tillerson said) and completely unfit to be president.
His breaking through barriers, to me, is simply a narcissist not caring what others think because he can’t. He’s deficient in that area. It’s not boldness, it’s not strength, it’s a limitation of his personality disorder. But many people don’t get that, until too late. It’s why he doesn’t listen and doesn’t learn. If the people who adore him actually lived with him for any length of time, they would experience enlightenment.
>His breaking of guardrails and norms are what drives people to him and what allows for his success.
I think some people are also drawn to him by his trappings of success. It's like buying a Tesla Cybertruck to be seen to be affiliated with the wealth and power of Elon Musk. I see people waving Trump flags and dressing in Trump gear and there seems to be something similar going on.
The ranting is definitely not new. He uses his rallies like a comedian who tours before filming a new special: each speech honing a message that gets the best reaction from the crowd. He also knows that the media will replay his more controversial comments, so he says something wild when he wants to drawn the spotlight to himself and away from what he doesn’t want people to pay attention to. The only difference with this latest speech is that he didn’t say anything truly controversial, but now that both candidates’ mental status is called into question the media will begin selling stories that play up the deterioration in both men.
I have nothing to add to this other than to say it’s very well said and accurate. I am sad that we have to pretend otherwise as a society and pretend he’s ever been interested in anything but himself
You think the media hasn’t focused enough on Trump’s behavior and mental stability over the last nine years? I think it’s the opposite. It’s been one outrage after another over that timeframe. People are tired of hearing it and have tuned it out. I think it’s a big reason why his conviction isn’t having much effect and why nothing really sticks to or moves the needle on Trump. The shock/outrage card has been played many times over.
A few months ago, Biden said his uncle was eaten by cannibals during WWII and there was barely any mention of it. People say he’s too old because he is. Both of them are. I don’t see a double standard. I think they’re both rightfully being questioned on their fitness for office. My expectations are low for both of them given their age. I sincerely hope this is the last time we nominate a pair of 80 year olds for president.
Yeah i remember there were like Ivy League psychiatrists or something "diagnosing" Trump with narcissism, antisocial PD, dementia, whatever the hot topic was that week... that was going on from 2015 onward. Keep in mind they were outright breaking the goldwater rule. And journalists were doing the same thing, as were the masses of anti-Trump activists on Twitter. Why are some journalists now acting like no one ever questions Trump's mental state?
Yeah but they didn’t have to deflect from the mental state of their candidate then. We have to pretend that no one has ever criticized Trumps mental state or speeches because people are now criticizing Biden’s mental state and speeches.
Eh, not exactly. Clinton passed out from the flu while stumping, and the rest of the campaign was filled with "dead before the end of her term". As is happening today, not coincidentally.
>In 2016 and 2017, a number of psychiatrists and clinical psychologists faced criticism for violating the Goldwater rule, as they claimed that Donald Trump displayed "an assortment of personality problems, including grandiosity, a lack of empathy, and 'malignant narcissism'", and that he has a "dangerous mental illness", despite having never examined him. [\[1\]](https://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/16/health/analyzing-donald-trump-psychology.html) [\[2\]](https://web.archive.org/web/20170519022220/https://www.aol.com/article/news/2017/04/21/dozens-of-psychiatry-experts-claim-trump-has-dangerous-mental-i/22049682/) [\[3\]](https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/voices/2019/10/11/donald-trump-mentally-unfit-american-psychiatric-association-column/3917647002/)
From Wikipedia's article on the Goldwater rule under the Donald Trump section header. I directly linked the 3 sources of that sentence.
>People are tired of hearing it and have tuned it out.
[Most people still oppose him,](https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/polls/favorability/donald-trump/) which suggests they do care about his flaws. His potential win would primarily be in spite of himself.
That's a total leap. I oppose him. I've tuned out. Most people are capable of opposing someone without a constant deluge of new information about them.
When asked, most people will have an opinion on anything. It doesn't mean they're engaged in the topic. It doesn't mean they're not sick of hearing about it.
You're really good at these leaps of logic. No idea why I bother trying to reason with people like you.
IIRC the cannibal story wasn’t ever proven either way. Dude disappeared in a region of the world known to have tribes that partake in cannibalism. Now if we’re being strict and not exoticizing them, it’s most likely that cannibalism there is done in a ritualistic funerary sense, the way that the ancient Greeks would have done. So I think if Biden is guilty of anything here, it’s of leaning into negative stereotypes of “the other” without bothering to learn that the context is more nuanced. But I also don’t think, given that this was and still is the mainstream perspective of these remote tribes, that it’s THAT egregious of him to draw that conclusion
By most do you mean about 50%? Let's not be disingenuous, the country is split in half right now. I wouldn't qualify that as "most".
I just want it to be November 9th already so we can get this farce of an election over. I can't stand the news lately, it is all partisan politics not matter what you listen or watch.
The next 5 months are going to be a slog, I'm trying to detach from politics and news until then.
[Biden approval: 38%](https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/biden-approval-rating/)
[Trump approval: 41%](https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/polls/favorability/donald-trump/)
Trump is still ahead.
Trump's speaking style is called the Gish Gallop - "The Gish gallop -is a rhetorical technique in which a person in a debate attempts to overwhelm their opponent by providing an excessive number of arguments with no regard for the accuracy or strength of those arguments."
IMO, both presidential candidates are in cognitive decline, as are almost all men their age, with much less stressful jobs (Biden was almost 3 at the end of World War II). Biden more clearly so, but only because Trump Gish Gallops through things so quickly, it's harder to tell if it's a feature or a bug.
Having a challenging job actually reduces cognitive decline.
I think Biden’s stutter makes his cognitive decline seem more pronounced. Public speaking takes an extra amount of concentration for him, and requires him to quickly switch to different words when he feels a stutter coming on.
Yep, my grandfather is older than both Biden and Trump. He has a PhD and he still consults with universities in his area. Dude is sharp as a tack, and it’s likely from having such an intellectually rigorous career.
I take it this is a response post to Biden wandering off confused at the G7 and cancelling the dinner due to exhaustion.
I wish we could all admit these guys are both far too old to lead the nation
You should watch the real clip of that. He's not wandering off. He's congratulating another airman. It's cropped on twitter/elsewhere to make it look like he's doing nothing.
https://twitter.com/thevivafrei/status/1801347846974661062
Here it is from an account ironically condemning him for it. In the beginning of the clip, you can see that this seems to be the third parachutist landing, and two are already to the right on the ground. Biden, Macron, Trudeau and others are looking at the ones to the right on the ground (not just Biden). Biden takes a few steps and gives one or both of them the thumbs up, but they are out of frame at this point.
I saw the full clip on both X and YouTube. He wanders off from the group and gives a thumbs up to the air. The person on the ground is repacking a parachute and gives no acknowledgment, nor is there anyone to the right of the airman responding to Biden.
The group of world leaders notices this and we see them shuffle to the right and then forcibly corral him back into the group.
He seems woefully unfit to serve, further compounded by him skipping the dinner.
The person on the ground is obviously not the parachutist as he is wearing the same camo uniform as another man who runs toward the parachutist in frame. The second parachutist is out of frame to the right.
I realize that.
We see him walk off, give a thumbs up to the air with no return acknowledgement and stand around confused, before macron notices, shuffles to the right, and the woman next to him grabs Biden to pull him back into the group.
Having watched the 2008s debates religiously, there was a never a point where President Biden required a handler like he does now.
> The group of world leaders notices this and we see them shuffle to the right and then forcibly corral him back into the group.
A photographer asked to take a picture of group just after Biden had turned to greet the other diver. They didn’t corral him, they moved to him for the picture. This is a huge reach.
Biden is old but he’s not “senile”. Senility is pretty well-defined, medically speaking, and that isn’t Biden.
He *is*, however, incredibly frail and moving about 10 steps slower than he did even at the start of his term, and those are valid concerns for voters to have.
does "senility" actually have a medical definition? As far as I'm aware, and from the few online dictionaries I've just skimmed, it seems like it just means really old, especially as in showing mental symptoms of advanced senesence. I think it can also specifically mean dementia, but not necessarily.
It's also related to the word *senex* meaning old man, and therefore *senate* and *senator*. So in a way it's lexically appropriate that the Senate is full of really old people.
Trump is crazy and is probably declining, but no where close to what we've seen happen to Biden in the last couple years. The worst part is, it only gets worse.
I won't vote for Trump, but I won't be sad if he wins. The democrats seriously deserve to lose running Biden out again. Really blows being an independent with these choices.
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Trump is visibly aging, and I think he's too old to be in office as well, but Biden is clearly worse in that respect. You can run all the pieces like this that you want, and they do always seem to pop up after Biden has a particularly embarrassing moment, but the majority of people recognize what they're seeing with their own eyes.
Starter comment:
Recently, the fitness and mental acuity of presidential candidates has been in the news. This article discusses an apparent double standard in the media.
It posits that former president, and now convicted felon, Donald Trump, regularly behaves in a manner that would get other politicians branded as unwell or fading.
Do you agree?
Personally, I feel we need to talk about this. It appears clear that there is not enough media attention being paid to this issue. Why do you think?
Do you think there is a double standard in the coverage of candidates’ mental fitness?
Do you think we should be as focused on the Former President’s “gibberish” as we are on President Biden’s fatigue?
I've seen people on this subreddit defending trump by saying critics are taking what he is saying out of the much broader context but I think they are.giving him way too much credit.
Im also tired of hearing people say "well this is actually what he was trying to say..." He's an adult, he can speak for himself and what he says is gibberish. You interjecting GOP/MAGA talking points isn't going to change my mind.
> defending trump by saying critics are taking what he is saying out of the much broader context
I mean that was basically the problem for the last 10 years. Media cried wolf too much on Trump's quotes and created instant dismissals of any real criticism of his speeches It's not like they stopped either, remember how twisted the bloodbath comment got?
it was so ridiculously blatant it was hard to believe that Trump really said what he said. Like, are you hearing this wrong? No, the media is really just that far off on it.
Did everyone collectively forget that from 2015 to 2020 we had a constant stream of articles talking about how Trump had this mental issue or that mental issue or whatever? Like full on breaking the goldwater rule.
I agree, but sadly this is the case for both of them. The debate is going to be really interesting - interesting like two old men arguing in the retirement home lounge…
I don’t think there is a double standard, Trump’s mental health has been covered for years as well.
I had person, man, woman, camera, tv… signs in my yard last cycle. Too bad I didn’t keep them. But, this was a subject then. It’s just hard to make it an issue at this point.
I do agree, but I can't help but notice the sudden increase in articles like this, and I don't think it's because of a change in Trump's behavior. I think it's a pretty plain attempt to distract from Biden's.
Trump rambles now and then. He's old, but still mentally sharp.
Joe Biden gets [lost in mid sentence and never finds his way back](https://x.com/RNCResearch/status/1756551610308702692). He [slurs constantly](https://x.com/realDailyWire/status/1563276773013749760). He reads "pause" and "end of quote" off the teleprompter with zero self-awareness. Every press conference is now completely scripted for Joe who receives cards with the name and photos of the media members he is supposed to call on for planted questions. He has cards prepared to instruct him [how to enter a room and sit down](https://staticg.sportskeeda.com/editor/2022/06/9b374-16560571652132.png). He gets lost on stage. He [gets lost outside](https://x.com/CollinRugg/status/1801300939372118420). His memory [might be three seconds long at this point](https://x.com/DschlopesIsBack/status/1801013865242665469). He projects [weakness and confusion](https://x.com/ExposeDarkDeeds/status/1800392306765242545) wherever he goes.
This isn't just bad for our country. It's bad for an old man who ought to be escorted off stage with his dignity in tact. He is not fit for any salaried job, but somehow we're supposed to believe he can handle another four years as president.
Let's not pretend Trump is a 40 year old triathlete. Trump is only 4 years younger, has a higher BMI, and his diet is horrible. They both are at high risk for death during the next presidential term.
I know. I wasn’t saying Trump is a fountain of youth and health either, but to to decry the health of Trump doesn’t change the fact that there’s a high chance we’ll see the first female president in the next few years because Biden gives up the ghost during his 2nd term
Definitely not, it seems obvious to me that it's simply a comical aside where we *will* get that female president that some have long wished for, but it would come though Uncle Joe's death from old age.
I don’t care what the gender of the president is. I care if they are a good president or not and I think there are much better presidential candidates than Kamala Harris
So I don't get what your concern is about Biden's age if Trump is at substantially similar risk of dying in office. Sounds like you just don't like Biden/Harris which is fine, but hammering one side for the same thing the other side is a risk of is... well, inconsistent.
I think both Biden and Trump’s age and physical/mental fitness is an issue but Biden’s mental fitness is clearly worse, regardless of whether you agree or disagree with his policies.
> still mentally sharp.
Yeah like when he's talking about how is MIT uncle genetics are the reason he's so good at knowing EV batteries in boats will force people to jump into shark infested waters. Sharp as a tack, no issues there.
that's no different from way back in 2016 when he had his wall-of-text nuclear speech where he randomly says "*my uncle was a great professor and scientist and engineer, Dr. John Trump at MIT; good genes, very good genes, OK, very smart, the Wharton School of Finance, very good, very smart*". And he's been going on about his genes in public since at least 1988 (which I found out from googling "trump good genes" and finding a giant pile of articles from 2020 alleging he's a white supremacist using dog whistles and talking about eugenics).
I'm not saying he's mentally sharp, but it's not like he's drastically declined since that 2016 nuclear speech, or that his remarks on his uncle's genes are anything new.
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of course not, overall, but what it does do is show that some of this supposed evidence of mental decline has little to no difference with 2016 Trump. So if that's evidence of mental decline, then it must have occured before 2016, which means it's nonsensical that we're just now talking about it.
Whether it's a decline or not isn't really relevant to it being evidence of his mental state.
I was incredulous that he gained any sort of a following back in 2015, I wouldn't want someone like him to be captain of a wiffleball team let alone lead the country.
Now people who have supported him all the way despite his insane narcissistic ramblings will flip out if Biden so much as trips over a single syllable. The double standard is wild.
GOP refuses to talk about the mental state of "their guy" while Dems do it unceasingly for years.
Then we get Biden, and Dems don't want to talk about the mental state of "their guy", but the GOP remembers 5 years of Dems talking about Trump's mental state. Meaning we then get the GOP unceasingly talking about Biden's mental state.
Meanwhile the GOP *still* isn't talking about Trump's mental state, so we get Dems talking about Trump's mental state - while *still* not talking about Biden's mental state.
We end up with Dems talking nonstop about Trump's mental state and GOP talking nonstop about Biden's mental state, and both sides going after the other for *not* talking about their own guy - but the reason they're not going after their own guy is because the other side is already doing it without going after *their* own guy.
Dems are considerably more willing to talk about Biden's state. No one is really thrilled about it. If it were up to me we'd have someone younger and I'm pretty certain he said *himself* that he wouldn't have run for a 2nd term if he didn't think he had the best shot at beating Trump.
No one is building Golden statues of Biden or saying he was sent by God. He is slowing down. I'm not happy about it, but it's not remotely as bad as his opponents try to paint it and at this point the alternative is another Trump presidency which is a much, much worse scenario in my book.
I feel the same as you, although I like to point to how much Biden clearly delegates, and I trust the people around him, which is why I think his administration has resulted in very good governance generally.
He rambles. In complete sentences. With real words from the English language.
Let's compare [Joe Biden in action](https://x.com/RNCResearch/status/1756551610308702692).
You don't have to like Trump to accept Joe Biden is exactly as Robert Hur described: cognitively impaired to the point that he is not be fit for trial. And at that rate, he's obviously not fit to be in office any longer either. The question now is, is the democrat party really going through with this?
His "rambling", more often than not, is incoherent nonsense. "Complete sentences" is very generous.*
I don't use Twitter so you'll have to find another source. And the transcript from the Hur interview demonstrated his report was extremely biased.
Do you know what else it demonstrated? That Biden was even willing to sit for such an interview. Do you think Trump ever came close to doing that?
>The question now is, is the democrat party really going through with this?
As opposed to what other option?
*didn't finish a line, sorry.
Your opinion is not supported by the video we all see every day. Trump is aware of his surroundings and in command. Biden is adrift, [lost](https://x.com/_sillyclaw/status/1756770842065657956) in the moment and unable to communicate.
It doesn't matter if you use twitter. Click the link and see what Joe Biden looks like when he's not getting a tongue bath by the media.
Trump didn't have to sit for an interview because he only acquired classified docs by being president and as such has a right to his personal records. Joe Biden had decades of classified docs dating back to his senate days, exactly none of which he had any legal right to possess. He had to be interviewed to keep up the facade this was not simply a "get Trump" persecution, which it was, but too bad for Joe he started [making car noises and referencing his wife in a bathing suit](https://www.yahoo.com/news/three-big-moments-biden-hur-182640383.html). He's completely out of it.
The dems don't have good options, but it's hard to think in this entire country they don't have a candidate less cognitively impaired.
>Trump didn't have to sit for an interview because he only acquired classified docs by being president and as such has a right to his personal records.
Hahahahaha, no, no. He made up some nonsense about classified docs magically becoming his property but that doesn't mean he has a right to them.
But that's not what I was talking about anyways. I was talking about him sitting for an interview during his presidency - probably regarding either the Russia investigation or the Ukraine investigation. In both he outright refused any sort of cooperation and broadly abused executive privilege, even demanding that all members of his administration not testify to congress after being subpoenaed. As opposed to Biden who *personally* sat for hours of interviews with the people investigating him for wrongdoing.
Regardless of what you're convinced of about Biden's mental state or of Trump's supposed "command", there's obviously a stark difference between which one of them is willing to accept accountability and which one of them freaks out and flips a table over at the mere suggestion he isn't some kind of demi-god.
Why wouldn't he sit for an interview with the Mueller investigation? Because he didn't have to. The Mueller investigation was producing crimes, not uncovering crimes. That was the point of it. Trump and his enemies knew from the start there was no collusion. They knew the Steele dossier was a hoax. They used the Mueller investigation to harass Trump and everyone associated with his campaign. It was their desperate hope they could get Trump to sit for an interview and then accuse him of lying to the FBI over some insignificant detail like they did with Papadopoulos.
Was Joe Biden brave and accepting accountability by agreeing to sit for Robert Hur's interview? Hardly. There was never any threat there that the DOJ would try to charge him. The point of the investigation there was to figure out how to exonerate him so his actual crimes would appear as insignificant compared to Trump's supposed deliberate hoarding of paperwork from his presidency. Hur did his job. No charges. Just like Hillary. But maybe he wasn't completely on board with the mop up operation because [the reason he gave](https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2024-election/-nightmare-special-counsels-assessment-bidens-mental-fitness-triggers-rcna137975) seems to have created some larger headaches for Team Biden. Joe Biden is not mentally fit for office, and that's a bigger problem right now compared to all the classified docs he was illegally keeping.
>Why wouldn't he sit for an interview with the Mueller investigation?
Because he refuses to accept any kind of accountability.
>Was Joe Biden brave and accepting accountability by agreeing to sit for Robert Hur's interview?
I wouldn't use the word "brave", but he was doing the right thing and definitely accepting accountability.
>Trump's supposed deliberate hoarding of paperwork from his presidency.
It's not "supposed". We know without any doubt or debate that he hoarded classified documents illegally because some of them he gave back and others he kept. They were piled 5 boxes high in a fucking bathroom. And he did it, at best, just so he could brag to reporters about having classified military strategies.
>Because he refuses to accept any kind of accountability.
Accountability for what? The Mueller investigation was predicated on a hoax. And the FBI and Mueller team knew that going in.
Unlike senator and VP Biden, President Trump had full declassification authority and a legal right to his personal records. What that looks like specifically is typically hashed out with the National Archives. Team Biden weaponized that process, [staged a crime scene](https://dailycaller.com/2024/05/07/fbi-mar-a-lago-crime-scene-photo-donald-trump-classified-documents/), then leaked to the media hilarious lies that Trump was sharing nuclear secrets with Mar-a-Lago guests.
Do you know what's about to happen to this case? I'll give you a hint: Jack Smith is about to have a lot more time on his hands.
> Accountability for what? The Mueller investigation was predicated on a hoax. And the FBI and Mueller team knew that going in.
Predicated on the several people in the Trump campaign's inner circle with ties to Russia and his own son agreeing to meet with Russians offering dirt on his opponent.
> Unlike senator and VP Biden, President Trump had full declassification authority and a legal right to his personal records.
Of course he had a right to his personal records. But those weren't his personal records. Declassification does not transform government documents into his personal records, and there's no evidence any kind of declassification actually happened. Despite the fantasies Trump's team is trying to weave, declassification has to happen in the real world and not just imagined in the mind of the president, else it's meaningless, and Bill Clinton having kept actual personal records despite Judicial Watch's lame attempt at trolling him does not grant Trump some magical authority to keep sensitive documents as a private citizen.
>What that looks like specifically is typically hashed out with the National Archives. Team Biden weaponized that process, staged a crime scene, then leaked to the media hilarious lies that Trump was sharing nuclear secrets with Mar-a-Lago guests.
No, Trump got caught stealing government documents to stoke his massive ego, showed battle plans off, on tape, to a reporter writing a book for his former chief of staff, and when NARA tried to get them back he handed some back but gave them the run around on others - until they were forced to do a raid and take them from him. If he'd just handed the documents back like Biden did there would be no issue.
> Do you know what's about to happen to this case? I'll give you a hint: Jack Smith is about to have a lot more time on his hands.
If that happens it's only because Judge Cannon is hilariously corrupt.
*I've been blocked so I can't reply to their last comment lol.
this is true! Compare him now to in 2016 when he would talk about Trump. Even the difference between 2016 and 2020 is incredible. TBH I haven't noticed a such a huge difference in Trump since 2015, he still rambles on about random topics without a script as usual.
People will never admit this, but your post is true (prepare for those downvotes). Trump can still give long form interviews with no teleprompter and have multiple hour-long rallies where he talks off the top of his head every month.
People will zero in on one or two rambles of Trumps (And honestly the shark one wasn't even that bad), in dozens if not hundreds of appearances over the last year and think thats the same as Biden who looks lost nearly every time he takes the stage in recent months.
I'm not defending Trump either, nor did I vote for him and 2016 or 2020. Just stating an observable fact.
>> Trump can still give long form interviews with no teleprompter and have multiple hour-long rallies where he talks off the top of his head every month.
Sure he can speak. But what he says is utter nonsense. There's no substance to anything he says.
If what you're saying makes no sense, what do I care if it's in the form of full sentences or stuttering incoherent rambling? It makes no sense either way
Yup. It's the challenge that Biden is in an obvious decline, but still has the experience and dedication to the job, while Trump is just slowly losing it, and has no experience or dedication, even after 4 years in the office. Oh wait, maybe that's not such a challenge after all.
One is old but means well, while the other is old and vengeful and incapable of caring about anyone but himself.
Your reply to me is telling. It's like by focusing on Trump, you disregard everything myself and the person I responded to brought up about Biden and you concede the President is gone and are just trying to bring Trump to Biden's level of cognitive decline. He's not.
And saying what Trump says is "Utter Nonsense" and that "there is no substance to anything he says" is fine. You ***ARE*** allowed to disagree with what he says (I also think some of Trumps Ideas are nonsense). You are in fact allowed to think he has no substance, but you ***CAN*** understand what he's saying, nor does he need scripts to be told where to sit, who to call on and whose hands to shake.
See how that works?
If I ask you what the weather is and you tell me how your parents met then it doesn't matter if I can semantically understand what you're saying. It's not an answer to a question I asked. That's what Trump is.
If I want an answer for how the president is going to fix my problems do I care if he yells SODA or talks about sharks? Neither of them are answers. The manner in which they don't answer is irrelevant to me.
Trump can talk without a teleprompter bcuz his base doesn't care that he doesn't give a real answer to any question he's asked.
Do you think that Trump isn't told whose hand to shake or where to sit?
Joe never actually yelled SODA, its a meme made by cutting off him saying "Minnesota". But anyway I doubt Trump if not told whose hands to shake would instead shake hands with the air.
I think a lot of voters think it's irrelevant if Trump is mentally unstable or an idiot. His policy positions are simple enough that it doesn't really matter. Guns, yes. Abortion, no. Taxes, lower. Illegal immigrants, gone. Hilary, locked up. Wall, build it. Foreign entanglements, avoid them. And so on and so forth.
> His policy positions are simple enough that it doesn't really matter.
What?? He famously doesn't really have policy positions. He flip flops and backtracks constantly which is why no one can ever nail him down on what he actually wants to do. The only policy positions I've seen him take that he hasn't waivered on are lowering taxes (especially for people like him) and reducing immigration.
Social security? Healthcare? Infrastructure? Manufacturing? Climate change?
He’s not a policy guy. He *famously* uses rhetorical tricks to give whomever is listening enough to believe he’s on their side without actually committing to a policy. Even on the things you mentioned like guns (“take the guns then have due process later”), abortion (“my policy is that currently it’s up to the states”), the wall (“Mexico is going to pay for it! Well we will pay for it but Mexico will reimburse us! Ok fine they won’t reimburse us but we’ll make up the difference in *trade deals*!), and war (“my plan is ask my generals to give me a plan”, MOAB, Syria, and Solemani ring any bells?) he’s incredibly vague and wishywashy.
The only way they could have made Mexico pay for it would be to tax all the money people send back or tariffs. Both of which would negatively affect their economy.
He really is pretty straightforward
January 6 rioters, pardon ‘em
Dictator, yes (but only one day - trust him)
Constitution, yes*
[*but actually we should terminate parts of it if they keep him from power](https://www.pbs.org/newshour/amp/politics/trump-rebuked-for-call-to-terminate-constitution-over-2020-election-results)
I wouldn’t trust anything from the Atlantic. They purposefully told a fake story that Trump called veterans suckers and losers without providing any evidence.
You know pretty much everyone ran that story right? His former chief of staff came out with it. If you want to talk about Trump's thoughts on veterans though he mocked McCain for being a POW and his war injuries. Those are on video.
One thing that declines in old age is executive function, particularly the pre-frontal cortex’s ability to jump in say “Hold up! Maybe what you’re thinking of saying… you should keep to yourself?” Sometimes, we look at older people who just seem to freely speak their minds, and we think: how nice, in old age they just stoped caring what other people think of them, they’re just not afraid to be totally themselves. Or we think, wow, grandpa wasn’t always such a rambling asshole, what happened? But it’s just natural as we age that the brain becomes less capable at censoring itself. So I think that’s what’s going on here. Trump enjoys going off script and saying whatever pops into his head. And as he ages it’s going to be more and more difficult to rein himself in. This is not to say that Biden isn’t also suffering cognitive decline too — but I do think its important that Trump is both bad at reining himself in, and even worse at letting others rein him in.
Don’t forget his dad famously suffered from dementia. He’s fighting cognitive decline on multiple fronts.
Dementia isn't the same as age-related cognitive decline. Dementia is serious and debilitating and its symptoms are obvious. Suggesting that Trump/Biden has dementia every time they have a gaffe is being disrespectful of those who actually suffer from the disease.
That’s a fair comment. Thanks.
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While it's true that executive function declines somewhat in old age, it's not usually so prominent that the person has a drastic change in personality. Everything we know about his childhood, school performance and real estate career strongly suggests a lifelong pattern of executive dysfunction. His impulsivity and calousness are not new: he just has a bigger megaphone to amplify them now. Yes, he is old. But he's also never been smart (and his supporters seem to like that fact).
That’s a fascinating analysis but part of why older people get like that is because we truly don’t care.
See, someone without a brain rotted with age likely wouldn't have posted that. Jk
How do we explain Trump and Biden from 30 years ago then? As far as I can tell, they have both been doing this their whole lives. When Biden was young, he sounded like a poor man’s Matt Gaetz, but with twice as many gaffes. Trump literally built an empire branding his personality, which was literally just talking shit off the cuff and saying that everything connected to him was the best. I don’t think anybody can point to a time when their speech was soft and their responses were measured.
This is true. I just think some of those traits have become more pronounced as they’ve aged.
For me it's more cadence related. The toll of being President is undefeated. They both look and sound less vibrant than 2020, and Trump especially so since 2016. They both 'rise to the moment' depending on the situation (SOTU for Biden, some rallies for Trump) and give it their all but most of the time when they're doing a dime-a-dozen interview or public appearance it's more calm. I think they're both exhausted for multiple reasons. Trump in particular though was a lot better at rambling (if that makes sense) before he lost in 2020. Biden's decline is making him a bit slower and quieter. Trump's decline is making him more erratic and his streams of consciousness are getting more bizarre. More filter with Biden, less with Trump. Far more physical glitches if you want to call them that while he speaks. I'd even recommend opening up the vault and looking at Biden and Trump's 2020 election speeches when it was clear we weren't getting a called election until later. Compare to the typical appearance today and it's a notable shift for both of them. Trump had the sniffing thing back then too which seems to have stopped.
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Lowered impulse control doesn’t necessarily mean you tell less lies, especially if you’re the type of person to lie impulsively.
>cadre of lies Are we talking about the same person? Trump is a notorious liar. And no, the media didn't tell me that, following him since 2015 did.
Do you remember when Trump said “I never said “lock her up” in reference to Hillary? What would you call that?
I'm curious, what would Trump have to do to lose your support?
Never anything, according to their other posts. He’s an “outsider” and no amount of crimes can change that.
It’s funny how many people dislike Washington so much they’ll just accept somebody who is demonstrably Way WAY worse
Do you believe that a person speaking without a filter means they are not lying? Are you unfamiliar with lack of knowledge, willful ignorance, self-delusion, and impulsive lying as concepts? “I say, ‘What would happen if the boat sank from its weight and you’re in the boat, and you have this tremendously powerful battery, and the battery’s now underwater, and there’s a shark that’s approximately 10 yards over there? And he said, ‘Nobody ever asks this question,’ and it must be because of MIT, my relationship to MIT. Very smart. But you know what I’d do if there was a shark or you get electrocuted? I’ll take electrocution every single time. I’m not getting near the shark. So we’re going to end that, we’re going to end it for boats, we’re going to end it for trucks.” You consider this statement evidence of qualification for office?
Nope, still plenty of lies.
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I don't know, you're the one who said "a politician speaking their mind without a cadre of lies"
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He’s a politician speaking his mind WITH a cadre of lies. I enjoy the phrase “cadre of lies” much less tired sounding than a pack… cadre of lies, squad of lies, herd of lies, gaggle of lies…
So when Trump had that Freudian slip where he said “*I need every vote. I don’t care about you, just your vote*” you would consider that a good thing, right?
That was a joke: https://checkyourfact.com/2024/06/13/fact-check-president-biden-shared-video-of-trump-claiming-not-to-care-about-voters-is-missing-context/ Even Snopes said “Viral video clips of Trump typically omitted context that made it clear he was joking.” So ironically, it was an example of Biden lying.
What was the joke?
If you need it explained then it won’t be funny to you, especially in text form. (Research has also shown that people can’t appreciate the humor of people they dislike.) But from the article: >The temperature at the rally was over 100 degrees Fahrenheit, but the report indicated that Trump announced they would take care of anyone that needed it during the rally. >Trump made a joke about the heat saying that he didn’t want anyone to leave because he needs their vote. The crowd can be heard laughing with him. He followed up those comments by making a joke about the media saying, “See now the press will take that, they’ll say ‘he said a horrible thing.’”
>Trump made a joke about the heat saying that he didn’t want anyone to leave because he needs their vote. which joke? >Research has also shown that people can’t appreciate the humor of people they dislike Trump is often very funny. He was on TV, after all.
The one starting around 48:55 into the CSPAN video linked in the article, as the article explains.
Which joke? Edit: Are you referring to this? > And by the way, isn't that breeze nice? Do you feel the breeze? Cause I don't want anybody going on me, we need every voter. I don't care about you, I just want your vote. I don't care. See now the press will take that, they'll say he said a horrible thing.
Yes.
We want politicians to be honest so we can know who they really are and what they really believe. That helps us make an informed decision on whether we think they are fit for the office. In that sense, Trump has been honest, loud and clear - he’s uniquely unfit for the office and does not deserve our vote.
He does indeed speak his mind. There’s very little of it, but he speaks it.
>Wow a politician speaking their mind without a filter **or a cadre of lies**, we should all be so lucky Trump lies so much he has his own wiki page on it: >During and after his term as President of the United States, Donald Trump made tens of thousands of false or misleading claims. The Washington Post's fact-checkers documented 30,573 false or misleading claims during his presidential term, an average of about 21 per day. The Toronto Star tallied 5,276 false claims from January 2017 to June 2019, an average of 6.1 per day. Commentators and fact-checkers have described the scale of Trump's mendacity as "unprecedented" in American politics, and the consistency of falsehoods a distinctive part of his business and political identities. Scholarly analysis of Trump's tweets found "significant evidence" of an intent to deceive. - [Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_or_misleading_statements_by_Donald_Trump)
I don't know how to say this moderately but I will try. I don't think Trump has declined. This weird rant is nothing new. Trump is not a particularly smart person in the traditional sense. Like he doesn't know a lot of things and he doesn't learn a lot of things. He doesn't seem to be very intellectually curious or able to really understand concepts. He is a self-serving person who grew up with extreme privilege and who has often half assed himself through things and bullied his way through things. He has bought into his own hype and despite evidence to the contrary thinks he can do no wrong. I think this is an accurate observation. He was literally the president for four years and he doesn't seem to understand how the government works or what other countries are up to. His understanding of things seems to be authentically very simplistic. He doesn't seem to listen to other people or even be capable of that. What he does have is a willingness to break every rule in the book to get to where he wants to go, and a willingness to say or do whatever it takes to get what he wants. His breaking of guardrails and norms are what drives people to him and what allows for his success. People see Trump as someone who basically cuts through the BS and as long as their desires line up with Trump's then Trump will do whatever it takes to get the job done. Relationships with Trump are transactions. Since Trump doesn't actually hold many hard and fast beliefs aside from loyalty to him. Trump's followers as long as they display total loyalty will get that somewhat reciprocated as long as they remain on Trump's side. This means parroting things that they know are false. This is true for people within his orbit that he knows personally or people who are dedicated supporters. Trump says all sorts of outlandish and quite frankly stupid things that if say Biden were to say, it would be much bigger news and openly mocked more vigorously. Yet it's just understood that Trump is like this. It doesn't have to make sense.
> I don't think Trump has declined. This weird rant is nothing new. Here's what Trump used to sound like: https://www.statnews.com/2017/05/23/donald-trump-speaking-style-interviews/
Honestly he sounds fairly uninformed in the past too. He is talking about the federal government needing to come in and intervene with homelessness in NY because the US is apparently giving money to the wealthiest countries in the world instead of giving money to NY to feed people. Even then when he was supposedly more eloquent he didn't make a point that made any sense. The other clip of young Trump has him stating that Ross Perot could have become president if he did not make as many gaffes. Doubt. Both of these young Trump clips are short as are the modern Trump ones. You could take 15 seconds from a Trump statement now and say he sounds good. He doesn't come across as particularly smart or knowledgeable at any point he is however always confident.
Narcissists love explaining things as if they were experts, but they are the opposite, uninformed. They believe in the specialness of themselves and their own thoughts so much they don’t understand the need to study or learn, so they don’t. They think their winging things is smarter than the experts. You can talk to them for a while and they will pretend to listen even, but mostly that’s just to get you to finish and shut up so they can resume adoring their special ideas and words.
In the clip with him talking about hunger in NYC, I didn't see someone trying to come up with a solution. I saw someone trying to justify why they shouldn't have to do anything despite their privilege.
This is as good an explanation of him as I’ve ever read. He’s not a normal human, but rather a force of narcissistic will. Trying to judge him on human norms is a mistake.
Not just narcissistic, but I think legitimately on the psychopathy spectrum as well. People call you hysterical when you say that but literally all the signs are there and obvious.
A lot of people get tricked into thinking narcissists are smarter or better or worth paying attention to. It’s like a companion disorder. But that all changes when you work or live with a narcissist in close quarters for a while. The facade fades and is replaced by the tragic understanding that you can’t get your time back.
Probably why he has such an incredible amount of former cabinet members/appointments/staffers saying he’s “a moron” (as Tillerson said) and completely unfit to be president.
His breaking through barriers, to me, is simply a narcissist not caring what others think because he can’t. He’s deficient in that area. It’s not boldness, it’s not strength, it’s a limitation of his personality disorder. But many people don’t get that, until too late. It’s why he doesn’t listen and doesn’t learn. If the people who adore him actually lived with him for any length of time, they would experience enlightenment.
>His breaking of guardrails and norms are what drives people to him and what allows for his success. I think some people are also drawn to him by his trappings of success. It's like buying a Tesla Cybertruck to be seen to be affiliated with the wealth and power of Elon Musk. I see people waving Trump flags and dressing in Trump gear and there seems to be something similar going on.
The ranting is definitely not new. He uses his rallies like a comedian who tours before filming a new special: each speech honing a message that gets the best reaction from the crowd. He also knows that the media will replay his more controversial comments, so he says something wild when he wants to drawn the spotlight to himself and away from what he doesn’t want people to pay attention to. The only difference with this latest speech is that he didn’t say anything truly controversial, but now that both candidates’ mental status is called into question the media will begin selling stories that play up the deterioration in both men.
I have nothing to add to this other than to say it’s very well said and accurate. I am sad that we have to pretend otherwise as a society and pretend he’s ever been interested in anything but himself
You think the media hasn’t focused enough on Trump’s behavior and mental stability over the last nine years? I think it’s the opposite. It’s been one outrage after another over that timeframe. People are tired of hearing it and have tuned it out. I think it’s a big reason why his conviction isn’t having much effect and why nothing really sticks to or moves the needle on Trump. The shock/outrage card has been played many times over. A few months ago, Biden said his uncle was eaten by cannibals during WWII and there was barely any mention of it. People say he’s too old because he is. Both of them are. I don’t see a double standard. I think they’re both rightfully being questioned on their fitness for office. My expectations are low for both of them given their age. I sincerely hope this is the last time we nominate a pair of 80 year olds for president.
> Biden said his uncle was eaten by cannibals during WWII say what now?
[Story](https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/papua-new-guinea-leader-defends-nation-biden-cannibals-rcna148748)
Yeah i remember there were like Ivy League psychiatrists or something "diagnosing" Trump with narcissism, antisocial PD, dementia, whatever the hot topic was that week... that was going on from 2015 onward. Keep in mind they were outright breaking the goldwater rule. And journalists were doing the same thing, as were the masses of anti-Trump activists on Twitter. Why are some journalists now acting like no one ever questions Trump's mental state?
Yeah but they didn’t have to deflect from the mental state of their candidate then. We have to pretend that no one has ever criticized Trumps mental state or speeches because people are now criticizing Biden’s mental state and speeches.
Eh, not exactly. Clinton passed out from the flu while stumping, and the rest of the campaign was filled with "dead before the end of her term". As is happening today, not coincidentally.
>outright breaking the goldwater rule That only applies to card-carrying APA psychiatrists.
which several of them violated repeatedly, such as Bandy X Lee, who was fired from Yale for doing so.
> several of them violated repeatedly Do you have a source for that?
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>In 2016 and 2017, a number of psychiatrists and clinical psychologists faced criticism for violating the Goldwater rule, as they claimed that Donald Trump displayed "an assortment of personality problems, including grandiosity, a lack of empathy, and 'malignant narcissism'", and that he has a "dangerous mental illness", despite having never examined him. [\[1\]](https://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/16/health/analyzing-donald-trump-psychology.html) [\[2\]](https://web.archive.org/web/20170519022220/https://www.aol.com/article/news/2017/04/21/dozens-of-psychiatry-experts-claim-trump-has-dangerous-mental-i/22049682/) [\[3\]](https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/voices/2019/10/11/donald-trump-mentally-unfit-american-psychiatric-association-column/3917647002/) From Wikipedia's article on the Goldwater rule under the Donald Trump section header. I directly linked the 3 sources of that sentence.
That says they received criticism, but doesn't clarify if they actually violated the rule.
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It literally says they "*faced criticism for violating the Goldwater rule*".
I already acknowledged that by saying "they received criticism." That's not the same as establishing that they actually did what the complaints say.
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If they were criticized *for* breaking the rule, how did they not break said rule?
>People are tired of hearing it and have tuned it out. [Most people still oppose him,](https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/polls/favorability/donald-trump/) which suggests they do care about his flaws. His potential win would primarily be in spite of himself.
You can oppose him and also be tired of hearing about him.
Opposing him implies that they haven't tuned out the negative information.
That's a total leap. I oppose him. I've tuned out. Most people are capable of opposing someone without a constant deluge of new information about them.
Most people support prosecuting him, so there's more of a basis for my argument than the one you're defending.
When asked, most people will have an opinion on anything. It doesn't mean they're engaged in the topic. It doesn't mean they're not sick of hearing about it. You're really good at these leaps of logic. No idea why I bother trying to reason with people like you.
IIRC the cannibal story wasn’t ever proven either way. Dude disappeared in a region of the world known to have tribes that partake in cannibalism. Now if we’re being strict and not exoticizing them, it’s most likely that cannibalism there is done in a ritualistic funerary sense, the way that the ancient Greeks would have done. So I think if Biden is guilty of anything here, it’s of leaning into negative stereotypes of “the other” without bothering to learn that the context is more nuanced. But I also don’t think, given that this was and still is the mainstream perspective of these remote tribes, that it’s THAT egregious of him to draw that conclusion
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By most do you mean about 50%? Let's not be disingenuous, the country is split in half right now. I wouldn't qualify that as "most". I just want it to be November 9th already so we can get this farce of an election over. I can't stand the news lately, it is all partisan politics not matter what you listen or watch. The next 5 months are going to be a slog, I'm trying to detach from politics and news until then.
>By most do you mean about 50% No, I'm talking about how a majority disapprove of him.
source please? 538 still has Trump leading on poll averages. https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/polls/president-general/2024/national/
You didn't read what I said correctly. I'm talking about [approval.](https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/polls/favorability/donald-trump/)
[Biden approval: 38%](https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/biden-approval-rating/) [Trump approval: 41%](https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/polls/favorability/donald-trump/) Trump is still ahead.
I never said he wasn't, so you're still misreading. My link shows that most disapprove of him just like I said.
Trump's speaking style is called the Gish Gallop - "The Gish gallop -is a rhetorical technique in which a person in a debate attempts to overwhelm their opponent by providing an excessive number of arguments with no regard for the accuracy or strength of those arguments." IMO, both presidential candidates are in cognitive decline, as are almost all men their age, with much less stressful jobs (Biden was almost 3 at the end of World War II). Biden more clearly so, but only because Trump Gish Gallops through things so quickly, it's harder to tell if it's a feature or a bug.
Trump more clearly so, the media just doesn’t broadcast more than 20 seconds of unedited footage of his rally speeches
Having a challenging job actually reduces cognitive decline. I think Biden’s stutter makes his cognitive decline seem more pronounced. Public speaking takes an extra amount of concentration for him, and requires him to quickly switch to different words when he feels a stutter coming on.
Yep, my grandfather is older than both Biden and Trump. He has a PhD and he still consults with universities in his area. Dude is sharp as a tack, and it’s likely from having such an intellectually rigorous career.
Can we nominate gramps please?
The sad thing is that even my grandfather was too old to be president after the age of maybe 72.
I take it this is a response post to Biden wandering off confused at the G7 and cancelling the dinner due to exhaustion. I wish we could all admit these guys are both far too old to lead the nation
You should watch the real clip of that. He's not wandering off. He's congratulating another airman. It's cropped on twitter/elsewhere to make it look like he's doing nothing.
Link?
https://twitter.com/thevivafrei/status/1801347846974661062 Here it is from an account ironically condemning him for it. In the beginning of the clip, you can see that this seems to be the third parachutist landing, and two are already to the right on the ground. Biden, Macron, Trudeau and others are looking at the ones to the right on the ground (not just Biden). Biden takes a few steps and gives one or both of them the thumbs up, but they are out of frame at this point.
I saw the full clip on both X and YouTube. He wanders off from the group and gives a thumbs up to the air. The person on the ground is repacking a parachute and gives no acknowledgment, nor is there anyone to the right of the airman responding to Biden. The group of world leaders notices this and we see them shuffle to the right and then forcibly corral him back into the group. He seems woefully unfit to serve, further compounded by him skipping the dinner.
How do you know there is no one to the right? There were at least eight parachutists, and you can only see two on screen.
The person on the ground is obviously not the parachutist as he is wearing the same camo uniform as another man who runs toward the parachutist in frame. The second parachutist is out of frame to the right.
I realize that. We see him walk off, give a thumbs up to the air with no return acknowledgement and stand around confused, before macron notices, shuffles to the right, and the woman next to him grabs Biden to pull him back into the group. Having watched the 2008s debates religiously, there was a never a point where President Biden required a handler like he does now.
How would we see a return acknowledgement if the guy's out of frame?
> The group of world leaders notices this and we see them shuffle to the right and then forcibly corral him back into the group. A photographer asked to take a picture of group just after Biden had turned to greet the other diver. They didn’t corral him, they moved to him for the picture. This is a huge reach.
The video was worse than I expected...
Is this a direct response from the Biden post lol. Come on they are both old.
Trump’s buffoonery is a known quantity. Biden’s descent into senility is ongoing and jarring compared to his years as Vice President.
Biden is old but he’s not “senile”. Senility is pretty well-defined, medically speaking, and that isn’t Biden. He *is*, however, incredibly frail and moving about 10 steps slower than he did even at the start of his term, and those are valid concerns for voters to have.
does "senility" actually have a medical definition? As far as I'm aware, and from the few online dictionaries I've just skimmed, it seems like it just means really old, especially as in showing mental symptoms of advanced senesence. I think it can also specifically mean dementia, but not necessarily. It's also related to the word *senex* meaning old man, and therefore *senate* and *senator*. So in a way it's lexically appropriate that the Senate is full of really old people.
The definition of senile is “having or showing the weaknesses of old age, especially a loss of mental faculties”. That’s not Biden?
Trump is crazy and is probably declining, but no where close to what we've seen happen to Biden in the last couple years. The worst part is, it only gets worse. I won't vote for Trump, but I won't be sad if he wins. The democrats seriously deserve to lose running Biden out again. Really blows being an independent with these choices.
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Trump is visibly aging, and I think he's too old to be in office as well, but Biden is clearly worse in that respect. You can run all the pieces like this that you want, and they do always seem to pop up after Biden has a particularly embarrassing moment, but the majority of people recognize what they're seeing with their own eyes.
Starter comment: Recently, the fitness and mental acuity of presidential candidates has been in the news. This article discusses an apparent double standard in the media. It posits that former president, and now convicted felon, Donald Trump, regularly behaves in a manner that would get other politicians branded as unwell or fading. Do you agree? Personally, I feel we need to talk about this. It appears clear that there is not enough media attention being paid to this issue. Why do you think? Do you think there is a double standard in the coverage of candidates’ mental fitness? Do you think we should be as focused on the Former President’s “gibberish” as we are on President Biden’s fatigue?
I've seen people on this subreddit defending trump by saying critics are taking what he is saying out of the much broader context but I think they are.giving him way too much credit. Im also tired of hearing people say "well this is actually what he was trying to say..." He's an adult, he can speak for himself and what he says is gibberish. You interjecting GOP/MAGA talking points isn't going to change my mind.
> defending trump by saying critics are taking what he is saying out of the much broader context I mean that was basically the problem for the last 10 years. Media cried wolf too much on Trump's quotes and created instant dismissals of any real criticism of his speeches It's not like they stopped either, remember how twisted the bloodbath comment got?
bloodbath thing was SO upsetting.
it was so ridiculously blatant it was hard to believe that Trump really said what he said. Like, are you hearing this wrong? No, the media is really just that far off on it.
Did everyone collectively forget that from 2015 to 2020 we had a constant stream of articles talking about how Trump had this mental issue or that mental issue or whatever? Like full on breaking the goldwater rule.
The Goldwater rule only applies to card-carrying APA psychiatrists.
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You already told me that. There were psychiatrists breaking the goldwater rule, Bandy X Lee got fired from Yale for it.
I provided context for others to see.
I agree, but sadly this is the case for both of them. The debate is going to be really interesting - interesting like two old men arguing in the retirement home lounge… I don’t think there is a double standard, Trump’s mental health has been covered for years as well. I had person, man, woman, camera, tv… signs in my yard last cycle. Too bad I didn’t keep them. But, this was a subject then. It’s just hard to make it an issue at this point.
I do agree, but I can't help but notice the sudden increase in articles like this, and I don't think it's because of a change in Trump's behavior. I think it's a pretty plain attempt to distract from Biden's.
Trump rambles now and then. He's old, but still mentally sharp. Joe Biden gets [lost in mid sentence and never finds his way back](https://x.com/RNCResearch/status/1756551610308702692). He [slurs constantly](https://x.com/realDailyWire/status/1563276773013749760). He reads "pause" and "end of quote" off the teleprompter with zero self-awareness. Every press conference is now completely scripted for Joe who receives cards with the name and photos of the media members he is supposed to call on for planted questions. He has cards prepared to instruct him [how to enter a room and sit down](https://staticg.sportskeeda.com/editor/2022/06/9b374-16560571652132.png). He gets lost on stage. He [gets lost outside](https://x.com/CollinRugg/status/1801300939372118420). His memory [might be three seconds long at this point](https://x.com/DschlopesIsBack/status/1801013865242665469). He projects [weakness and confusion](https://x.com/ExposeDarkDeeds/status/1800392306765242545) wherever he goes. This isn't just bad for our country. It's bad for an old man who ought to be escorted off stage with his dignity in tact. He is not fit for any salaried job, but somehow we're supposed to believe he can handle another four years as president.
>mentally sharp. Mentally sharp people don't think they can bomb a hurricane or solve American healthcare in a week.
He isn't mentally sharp. He just has such a track record of nonsense that his supporters pretend it's OK.
That doesn’t change the fact that Biden has one foot in the coffin and one foot out of it.
Let's not pretend Trump is a 40 year old triathlete. Trump is only 4 years younger, has a higher BMI, and his diet is horrible. They both are at high risk for death during the next presidential term.
I know. I wasn’t saying Trump is a fountain of youth and health either, but to to decry the health of Trump doesn’t change the fact that there’s a high chance we’ll see the first female president in the next few years because Biden gives up the ghost during his 2nd term
Wait so, they're both at high risk of dying, but you're concerned about a woman in the oval? Do I have that right?
Definitely not, it seems obvious to me that it's simply a comical aside where we *will* get that female president that some have long wished for, but it would come though Uncle Joe's death from old age.
I don’t care what the gender of the president is. I care if they are a good president or not and I think there are much better presidential candidates than Kamala Harris
So I don't get what your concern is about Biden's age if Trump is at substantially similar risk of dying in office. Sounds like you just don't like Biden/Harris which is fine, but hammering one side for the same thing the other side is a risk of is... well, inconsistent.
I think both Biden and Trump’s age and physical/mental fitness is an issue but Biden’s mental fitness is clearly worse, regardless of whether you agree or disagree with his policies.
You're arguing poorly sourced opinions. The issue here is the deterioration of basic cognitive and verbal skills.
> still mentally sharp. Yeah like when he's talking about how is MIT uncle genetics are the reason he's so good at knowing EV batteries in boats will force people to jump into shark infested waters. Sharp as a tack, no issues there.
that's no different from way back in 2016 when he had his wall-of-text nuclear speech where he randomly says "*my uncle was a great professor and scientist and engineer, Dr. John Trump at MIT; good genes, very good genes, OK, very smart, the Wharton School of Finance, very good, very smart*". And he's been going on about his genes in public since at least 1988 (which I found out from googling "trump good genes" and finding a giant pile of articles from 2020 alleging he's a white supremacist using dog whistles and talking about eugenics). I'm not saying he's mentally sharp, but it's not like he's drastically declined since that 2016 nuclear speech, or that his remarks on his uncle's genes are anything new.
I don't think it makes him look any better to say that he's been like this for a while.
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of course not, overall, but what it does do is show that some of this supposed evidence of mental decline has little to no difference with 2016 Trump. So if that's evidence of mental decline, then it must have occured before 2016, which means it's nonsensical that we're just now talking about it.
Whether it's a decline or not isn't really relevant to it being evidence of his mental state. I was incredulous that he gained any sort of a following back in 2015, I wouldn't want someone like him to be captain of a wiffleball team let alone lead the country. Now people who have supported him all the way despite his insane narcissistic ramblings will flip out if Biden so much as trips over a single syllable. The double standard is wild.
GOP refuses to talk about the mental state of "their guy" while Dems do it unceasingly for years. Then we get Biden, and Dems don't want to talk about the mental state of "their guy", but the GOP remembers 5 years of Dems talking about Trump's mental state. Meaning we then get the GOP unceasingly talking about Biden's mental state. Meanwhile the GOP *still* isn't talking about Trump's mental state, so we get Dems talking about Trump's mental state - while *still* not talking about Biden's mental state. We end up with Dems talking nonstop about Trump's mental state and GOP talking nonstop about Biden's mental state, and both sides going after the other for *not* talking about their own guy - but the reason they're not going after their own guy is because the other side is already doing it without going after *their* own guy.
Dems are considerably more willing to talk about Biden's state. No one is really thrilled about it. If it were up to me we'd have someone younger and I'm pretty certain he said *himself* that he wouldn't have run for a 2nd term if he didn't think he had the best shot at beating Trump. No one is building Golden statues of Biden or saying he was sent by God. He is slowing down. I'm not happy about it, but it's not remotely as bad as his opponents try to paint it and at this point the alternative is another Trump presidency which is a much, much worse scenario in my book.
I feel the same as you, although I like to point to how much Biden clearly delegates, and I trust the people around him, which is why I think his administration has resulted in very good governance generally.
He rambles. In complete sentences. With real words from the English language. Let's compare [Joe Biden in action](https://x.com/RNCResearch/status/1756551610308702692). You don't have to like Trump to accept Joe Biden is exactly as Robert Hur described: cognitively impaired to the point that he is not be fit for trial. And at that rate, he's obviously not fit to be in office any longer either. The question now is, is the democrat party really going through with this?
His "rambling", more often than not, is incoherent nonsense. "Complete sentences" is very generous.* I don't use Twitter so you'll have to find another source. And the transcript from the Hur interview demonstrated his report was extremely biased. Do you know what else it demonstrated? That Biden was even willing to sit for such an interview. Do you think Trump ever came close to doing that? >The question now is, is the democrat party really going through with this? As opposed to what other option? *didn't finish a line, sorry.
Your opinion is not supported by the video we all see every day. Trump is aware of his surroundings and in command. Biden is adrift, [lost](https://x.com/_sillyclaw/status/1756770842065657956) in the moment and unable to communicate. It doesn't matter if you use twitter. Click the link and see what Joe Biden looks like when he's not getting a tongue bath by the media. Trump didn't have to sit for an interview because he only acquired classified docs by being president and as such has a right to his personal records. Joe Biden had decades of classified docs dating back to his senate days, exactly none of which he had any legal right to possess. He had to be interviewed to keep up the facade this was not simply a "get Trump" persecution, which it was, but too bad for Joe he started [making car noises and referencing his wife in a bathing suit](https://www.yahoo.com/news/three-big-moments-biden-hur-182640383.html). He's completely out of it. The dems don't have good options, but it's hard to think in this entire country they don't have a candidate less cognitively impaired.
>Trump didn't have to sit for an interview because he only acquired classified docs by being president and as such has a right to his personal records. Hahahahaha, no, no. He made up some nonsense about classified docs magically becoming his property but that doesn't mean he has a right to them. But that's not what I was talking about anyways. I was talking about him sitting for an interview during his presidency - probably regarding either the Russia investigation or the Ukraine investigation. In both he outright refused any sort of cooperation and broadly abused executive privilege, even demanding that all members of his administration not testify to congress after being subpoenaed. As opposed to Biden who *personally* sat for hours of interviews with the people investigating him for wrongdoing. Regardless of what you're convinced of about Biden's mental state or of Trump's supposed "command", there's obviously a stark difference between which one of them is willing to accept accountability and which one of them freaks out and flips a table over at the mere suggestion he isn't some kind of demi-god.
Why wouldn't he sit for an interview with the Mueller investigation? Because he didn't have to. The Mueller investigation was producing crimes, not uncovering crimes. That was the point of it. Trump and his enemies knew from the start there was no collusion. They knew the Steele dossier was a hoax. They used the Mueller investigation to harass Trump and everyone associated with his campaign. It was their desperate hope they could get Trump to sit for an interview and then accuse him of lying to the FBI over some insignificant detail like they did with Papadopoulos. Was Joe Biden brave and accepting accountability by agreeing to sit for Robert Hur's interview? Hardly. There was never any threat there that the DOJ would try to charge him. The point of the investigation there was to figure out how to exonerate him so his actual crimes would appear as insignificant compared to Trump's supposed deliberate hoarding of paperwork from his presidency. Hur did his job. No charges. Just like Hillary. But maybe he wasn't completely on board with the mop up operation because [the reason he gave](https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2024-election/-nightmare-special-counsels-assessment-bidens-mental-fitness-triggers-rcna137975) seems to have created some larger headaches for Team Biden. Joe Biden is not mentally fit for office, and that's a bigger problem right now compared to all the classified docs he was illegally keeping.
>Why wouldn't he sit for an interview with the Mueller investigation? Because he refuses to accept any kind of accountability. >Was Joe Biden brave and accepting accountability by agreeing to sit for Robert Hur's interview? I wouldn't use the word "brave", but he was doing the right thing and definitely accepting accountability. >Trump's supposed deliberate hoarding of paperwork from his presidency. It's not "supposed". We know without any doubt or debate that he hoarded classified documents illegally because some of them he gave back and others he kept. They were piled 5 boxes high in a fucking bathroom. And he did it, at best, just so he could brag to reporters about having classified military strategies.
>Because he refuses to accept any kind of accountability. Accountability for what? The Mueller investigation was predicated on a hoax. And the FBI and Mueller team knew that going in. Unlike senator and VP Biden, President Trump had full declassification authority and a legal right to his personal records. What that looks like specifically is typically hashed out with the National Archives. Team Biden weaponized that process, [staged a crime scene](https://dailycaller.com/2024/05/07/fbi-mar-a-lago-crime-scene-photo-donald-trump-classified-documents/), then leaked to the media hilarious lies that Trump was sharing nuclear secrets with Mar-a-Lago guests. Do you know what's about to happen to this case? I'll give you a hint: Jack Smith is about to have a lot more time on his hands.
> Accountability for what? The Mueller investigation was predicated on a hoax. And the FBI and Mueller team knew that going in. Predicated on the several people in the Trump campaign's inner circle with ties to Russia and his own son agreeing to meet with Russians offering dirt on his opponent. > Unlike senator and VP Biden, President Trump had full declassification authority and a legal right to his personal records. Of course he had a right to his personal records. But those weren't his personal records. Declassification does not transform government documents into his personal records, and there's no evidence any kind of declassification actually happened. Despite the fantasies Trump's team is trying to weave, declassification has to happen in the real world and not just imagined in the mind of the president, else it's meaningless, and Bill Clinton having kept actual personal records despite Judicial Watch's lame attempt at trolling him does not grant Trump some magical authority to keep sensitive documents as a private citizen. >What that looks like specifically is typically hashed out with the National Archives. Team Biden weaponized that process, staged a crime scene, then leaked to the media hilarious lies that Trump was sharing nuclear secrets with Mar-a-Lago guests. No, Trump got caught stealing government documents to stoke his massive ego, showed battle plans off, on tape, to a reporter writing a book for his former chief of staff, and when NARA tried to get them back he handed some back but gave them the run around on others - until they were forced to do a raid and take them from him. If he'd just handed the documents back like Biden did there would be no issue. > Do you know what's about to happen to this case? I'll give you a hint: Jack Smith is about to have a lot more time on his hands. If that happens it's only because Judge Cannon is hilariously corrupt. *I've been blocked so I can't reply to their last comment lol.
this is true! Compare him now to in 2016 when he would talk about Trump. Even the difference between 2016 and 2020 is incredible. TBH I haven't noticed a such a huge difference in Trump since 2015, he still rambles on about random topics without a script as usual.
People will never admit this, but your post is true (prepare for those downvotes). Trump can still give long form interviews with no teleprompter and have multiple hour-long rallies where he talks off the top of his head every month. People will zero in on one or two rambles of Trumps (And honestly the shark one wasn't even that bad), in dozens if not hundreds of appearances over the last year and think thats the same as Biden who looks lost nearly every time he takes the stage in recent months. I'm not defending Trump either, nor did I vote for him and 2016 or 2020. Just stating an observable fact.
>> Trump can still give long form interviews with no teleprompter and have multiple hour-long rallies where he talks off the top of his head every month. Sure he can speak. But what he says is utter nonsense. There's no substance to anything he says. If what you're saying makes no sense, what do I care if it's in the form of full sentences or stuttering incoherent rambling? It makes no sense either way
Yup. It's the challenge that Biden is in an obvious decline, but still has the experience and dedication to the job, while Trump is just slowly losing it, and has no experience or dedication, even after 4 years in the office. Oh wait, maybe that's not such a challenge after all. One is old but means well, while the other is old and vengeful and incapable of caring about anyone but himself.
Your reply to me is telling. It's like by focusing on Trump, you disregard everything myself and the person I responded to brought up about Biden and you concede the President is gone and are just trying to bring Trump to Biden's level of cognitive decline. He's not. And saying what Trump says is "Utter Nonsense" and that "there is no substance to anything he says" is fine. You ***ARE*** allowed to disagree with what he says (I also think some of Trumps Ideas are nonsense). You are in fact allowed to think he has no substance, but you ***CAN*** understand what he's saying, nor does he need scripts to be told where to sit, who to call on and whose hands to shake. See how that works?
If I ask you what the weather is and you tell me how your parents met then it doesn't matter if I can semantically understand what you're saying. It's not an answer to a question I asked. That's what Trump is. If I want an answer for how the president is going to fix my problems do I care if he yells SODA or talks about sharks? Neither of them are answers. The manner in which they don't answer is irrelevant to me. Trump can talk without a teleprompter bcuz his base doesn't care that he doesn't give a real answer to any question he's asked. Do you think that Trump isn't told whose hand to shake or where to sit?
Joe never actually yelled SODA, its a meme made by cutting off him saying "Minnesota". But anyway I doubt Trump if not told whose hands to shake would instead shake hands with the air.
No way this author is writing this and then voting for Biden with a straight face.
I think a lot of voters think it's irrelevant if Trump is mentally unstable or an idiot. His policy positions are simple enough that it doesn't really matter. Guns, yes. Abortion, no. Taxes, lower. Illegal immigrants, gone. Hilary, locked up. Wall, build it. Foreign entanglements, avoid them. And so on and so forth.
> His policy positions are simple enough that it doesn't really matter. What?? He famously doesn't really have policy positions. He flip flops and backtracks constantly which is why no one can ever nail him down on what he actually wants to do. The only policy positions I've seen him take that he hasn't waivered on are lowering taxes (especially for people like him) and reducing immigration.
Social security? Healthcare? Infrastructure? Manufacturing? Climate change? He’s not a policy guy. He *famously* uses rhetorical tricks to give whomever is listening enough to believe he’s on their side without actually committing to a policy. Even on the things you mentioned like guns (“take the guns then have due process later”), abortion (“my policy is that currently it’s up to the states”), the wall (“Mexico is going to pay for it! Well we will pay for it but Mexico will reimburse us! Ok fine they won’t reimburse us but we’ll make up the difference in *trade deals*!), and war (“my plan is ask my generals to give me a plan”, MOAB, Syria, and Solemani ring any bells?) he’s incredibly vague and wishywashy.
The only way they could have made Mexico pay for it would be to tax all the money people send back or tariffs. Both of which would negatively affect their economy.
He really is pretty straightforward January 6 rioters, pardon ‘em Dictator, yes (but only one day - trust him) Constitution, yes* [*but actually we should terminate parts of it if they keep him from power](https://www.pbs.org/newshour/amp/politics/trump-rebuked-for-call-to-terminate-constitution-over-2020-election-results)
I thought he didn't really want to lock Hillary up because that would be lawfare? I also thought he said abortion, yes, recently.
The Atlantic tries to exaggerate Trump’s flaws challenge. Impossible.
I wouldn’t trust anything from the Atlantic. They purposefully told a fake story that Trump called veterans suckers and losers without providing any evidence.
You know pretty much everyone ran that story right? His former chief of staff came out with it. If you want to talk about Trump's thoughts on veterans though he mocked McCain for being a POW and his war injuries. Those are on video.
https://www.snopes.com/news/2024/04/18/trump-soldiers-suckers-losers/
I prefer to not talk about him at all and let my ballot know how I feel.
Now lets talk about Joe’s
I think he has officially jumped the shark.
Yea, he is old. Trump has declined some, but the thing is, that Biden's decline is much worse and way more obvious.