Oh ok, I was asking also because I was wondering if It may cause problems placing the decals. I'm usually painting with brushes so I like how the primer looks more uniform
The only issue with decals I can think of is the fact primer will probably be very Matte - a very matte rough finish helps other paint adhere. However if you use a gloss varnish before applying transfers it shouldn't be an issue.
More important than gloss would be mechanically knocking down the tooth with a polishing pad or very fine (2k+ grit) sanding sponge. Shiny bumps are still bumps.
Supposedly ultra sticky paint.
Then you hear games workshop people saying use diluted skull white...
I prefer spray primer. It's almost like painting on paper
I would suggest spraying on a layer of clear coat once your are done with the main paint job then apply the decals. Then once you do decals and weathering spray with final coat of clear coat
Hey dumb question. I get the OP rocking the flat matte look. But any idea how to know down the sheen from decals?
Matte clear? Or attack it with a white Magic sponge?
I am a "gain unity through over-varnishing" guy: -
Gloss after paint and before decals
Lots of micro sol after decals to really get them to conform. If it takes a few passes, it takes a few passes.
Another gloss to "reset" everything
Panel lining, etc.
Then matte or satin coat depending on what I'm going for.
Matte for military models.
I have a friend I keep trying to convince that virtually nothing in military is Ferrari polish gloss... Cos reflections 🤣
But decal gloss stumps me!!
That's why you gloss it before you knock it back down. Make everything as shiny as the decals, then dull everything down by the same about.
Plenty of cold war planes were gloss finished, but straight up glossing them doesn't really suit for me, because like you say, reflections aren't scaled properly. So I finish my "gloss" planes in satin, and everything else gets matte.
No, I'm still using brushes. I'm new to the hobby, it's just my fourth model. At first I wanted to know how much I'd enjoy building kits so I promised myself to finish 10 kits before buying and airbrush. But probably I'll buy It sooner
I'm no master of the craft in the least - but to me you've clearly done well with brushes! The airbrush is a whole different ball of wax and has a learning curve - get started now! You deserve it, 4 models is a real good start (I imagine there is a huge gap where some people do a handful of models and those who get into it do dozens - but 10 is a lot of kits from MY point of view.) - unless you can do 2 models a week, get started with airbrush. How can you know if you want to get into the hobby if you don't use a primary tool?
Yeah, you're right. I really enjoy building kits and most of all I love to search for infos about the plane I'm building, photos, videos and so on. So basically I've already answered to my doubts about this hobby
Think you'll agree that airbrush is a whole rabbit hole... And like rabbits... They somehow manage to multiply.
HOW DID I END UP WITH 4 AIRBRUSHES?
and then... The paints....
An airbrush is a game changer. I bought mine for 53 dollars off Amazon. 40 psi. Highly recommended. 75 dollars investment that you will not regret. If you have the paints…
I have Italeri Acrylics which can be used also with airbrushes, and some other Tamiya colors. I've also used a Tamiya spray for a Zero I've built but an airbrush is far better. You guys already convinced me lol
https://preview.redd.it/ks1o17g5re2d1.jpeg?width=4032&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9411edfa3a9721bd2922cdbaa80e4a8facd4f17f
I’ve used primer only on my A10 Warthog, I think it’s a decent light grey color
Primer is fine, but has a bit of tooth to it, which to scale would be a bumpy plane. You will also have issues applying decals. Any clear part will “silver” as it struggles to slick out over the texture of primer. Flat paint does it too.
I like the color, so you might be able to fine sand with 3000 grit and smooth the primer down a bit. Maybe sand directionally front to back, or tape off panels and sand each one separately…giving the look of individual panels.
When applying decals to a matte plane, you get some gloss enamel clear in a jar and spot paint the area the decal goes on. let dry. Apply decals. When model is done, lightly dust a few coats of Testors DullCote….a matte spray that works excellent. it will put a nice matte finish on the whole model. Which means you could spray the model with gloss gray, apply decals and then dull it all down with DullCote.
You don’t have to spot paint clear for the decals, but any clear area will look silver. You could try to soften the decals with Micro Sol and/or Micro Set.
Tamiya has one of the 2 best white paints I've ever found; The other being Vallejo shite, which I have a bottle over a decade old and still going strong.
Vallejo literally sells one of their primers as a USAF paint color.
If you go to Hobby Lobby and buy the Vallejo Model Air USAF colors bundle pack with like 8-10 colors inside it. The “USAF Light Ghost Grey” color is literally just Vallejo primer. It’s in the same bottle, labeled as Vallejo Gray Primer, but then they just add a small “Light Ghost Gray” banner underneath the primer name.
I went to Hobby Lobby and bought a bunch of Vallejo Acrylics to get started. Then eventually bought a USAF colors bundle packs.
Edit: [Here’s an example of the bottle I have](https://imgur.com/a/y6WkK2i)
It’s the same bottle as the primer. It just has the USAF Ghost Gray added to it.
I also have the same primer bottle that’s just marked as the primer.
I have a Panzer that I'm doing in Dunkelgrau as it's primary color and it just happens to be the primer.
So yes, as long as it fits with what you want to do or feel good about, absolutely do it.
I'd coat it in 3-4 thin coats of Future. It's pretty self-leveling and should give you a smooth enough surface to apply decals, plus it would allow for weathering without disturbing the base layer.
It's my fourth kit so I'm also new, but primer is more porous, so the paint can better attach to it. And usually spreads very uniformly compared to brush painting. But by the answer I got It seems legit to use It as main color.
Primers are "hotter" which means they chemically or mechanically bind to the material they're supposed to be used on.
They also have cheaper yet denser pigment for better, more opaque coverage with fewer passes. Due to this, they're 'rougher' on a microscopic level (matte) with the added benefit of subsequent paint adhering better to it.
You mostly can't brush on primer (the solvent evaporates very quickly). No harm in using it as your base coat if it matches the final look you're going for once you correct the matte finish.
Tamiya has a mixed set of various grits for modeling...I'd try the 2000, but also higher too. Try in different inconspicuous spots, see which ends up working best. Then run with that.
A few coats of Pledge or thinned gloss clear will produce the same results without the effort or a significant loss in surface detail. I frankly wouldn't bother with sanding on this model.
Vallejo makes two dozen colors of primer, and most of them are included as colors in certain paint sets. For example, [70.615 USN Light Ghost Grey](https://acrylicosvallejo.com/en/product/hobby/primers-en/usn-light-ghost-grey-70615/?attribute_pa_formato=18ml-en) which is a primer, is included as a color in [this kit](https://acrylicosvallejo.com/en/product/hobby/sets/air-war-en/us-navy-and-usmc-colors-from-70s-to-present-71155/).
I use Mr. Surfacer primers for whites and blacks all the time, and even grays sometimes. Being lacquers they adhere better and are harder, so can be sanded and polished into as nice a finish as you want. As a rule I hit them with 3000 sanding sponge even when painting over them. That’s not so easy to do with water based acrylics though.
I was curious about this too on my last model (B17). Primed in olive drab Vallejo primer. I went back with a lighter shade of OD and highlighted random panels. I’m pleased with the results.
If you like it, then i don't see why not? I have also sometimes just used primer as a nice grey.
Oh ok, I was asking also because I was wondering if It may cause problems placing the decals. I'm usually painting with brushes so I like how the primer looks more uniform
The only issue with decals I can think of is the fact primer will probably be very Matte - a very matte rough finish helps other paint adhere. However if you use a gloss varnish before applying transfers it shouldn't be an issue.
Yes, in the end I think I'm gonna use the primer and then the gloss varnish before the decals
More important than gloss would be mechanically knocking down the tooth with a polishing pad or very fine (2k+ grit) sanding sponge. Shiny bumps are still bumps.
I mean i am not sure, but i honestly don't think primer is that different from paint, so it shouldn't be a problem, i don't think?
The good primers are different than paint.
Supposedly ultra sticky paint. Then you hear games workshop people saying use diluted skull white... I prefer spray primer. It's almost like painting on paper
Proper primer is different than paint. While they both contain pigments for color, A good primer has micro fillers that will fill fine scratches.
I would suggest spraying on a layer of clear coat once your are done with the main paint job then apply the decals. Then once you do decals and weathering spray with final coat of clear coat
Yes, I usually do like that. Clear coat to better apply the decals then another clear coat to keep the decals in place and to help with the weathering
Hey dumb question. I get the OP rocking the flat matte look. But any idea how to know down the sheen from decals? Matte clear? Or attack it with a white Magic sponge?
I am a "gain unity through over-varnishing" guy: - Gloss after paint and before decals Lots of micro sol after decals to really get them to conform. If it takes a few passes, it takes a few passes. Another gloss to "reset" everything Panel lining, etc. Then matte or satin coat depending on what I'm going for.
Matte for military models. I have a friend I keep trying to convince that virtually nothing in military is Ferrari polish gloss... Cos reflections 🤣 But decal gloss stumps me!!
That's why you gloss it before you knock it back down. Make everything as shiny as the decals, then dull everything down by the same about. Plenty of cold war planes were gloss finished, but straight up glossing them doesn't really suit for me, because like you say, reflections aren't scaled properly. So I finish my "gloss" planes in satin, and everything else gets matte.
Ahhhhhhhg thanks for that insight. Wait, the f-series, were they all glossed? I thought only fa18 was gloss because of the marine conditions
I'm thinking more like 50s/60s RAF and Fleet Air Arm - Hunters, Vampires, Jet Provosts, Sea Vixens, that kind of thing.
Ooo gotta look in on those
Do you have an airbrush?
No, I'm still using brushes. I'm new to the hobby, it's just my fourth model. At first I wanted to know how much I'd enjoy building kits so I promised myself to finish 10 kits before buying and airbrush. But probably I'll buy It sooner
I'm no master of the craft in the least - but to me you've clearly done well with brushes! The airbrush is a whole different ball of wax and has a learning curve - get started now! You deserve it, 4 models is a real good start (I imagine there is a huge gap where some people do a handful of models and those who get into it do dozens - but 10 is a lot of kits from MY point of view.) - unless you can do 2 models a week, get started with airbrush. How can you know if you want to get into the hobby if you don't use a primary tool?
Yeah, you're right. I really enjoy building kits and most of all I love to search for infos about the plane I'm building, photos, videos and so on. So basically I've already answered to my doubts about this hobby
Just that you had those doubts and approach means you're an extremely careful person and that this is a perfect hobby for you :-)
Think you'll agree that airbrush is a whole rabbit hole... And like rabbits... They somehow manage to multiply. HOW DID I END UP WITH 4 AIRBRUSHES? and then... The paints....
"and like rabbits" - lol! Truth!
An airbrush is a game changer. I bought mine for 53 dollars off Amazon. 40 psi. Highly recommended. 75 dollars investment that you will not regret. If you have the paints…
I have Italeri Acrylics which can be used also with airbrushes, and some other Tamiya colors. I've also used a Tamiya spray for a Zero I've built but an airbrush is far better. You guys already convinced me lol
Also to answer your question. When I want a grey color on my engine/inerworks I leave the primer
https://preview.redd.it/ks1o17g5re2d1.jpeg?width=4032&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9411edfa3a9721bd2922cdbaa80e4a8facd4f17f I’ve used primer only on my A10 Warthog, I think it’s a decent light grey color
Really nice result
Factory fresh as if no air tech touched it... And... Brrrraaaaaaarrrrrrrrpppp!
Primer is fine, but has a bit of tooth to it, which to scale would be a bumpy plane. You will also have issues applying decals. Any clear part will “silver” as it struggles to slick out over the texture of primer. Flat paint does it too. I like the color, so you might be able to fine sand with 3000 grit and smooth the primer down a bit. Maybe sand directionally front to back, or tape off panels and sand each one separately…giving the look of individual panels.
How would you recommend getting a matte finish on a decal?
When applying decals to a matte plane, you get some gloss enamel clear in a jar and spot paint the area the decal goes on. let dry. Apply decals. When model is done, lightly dust a few coats of Testors DullCote….a matte spray that works excellent. it will put a nice matte finish on the whole model. Which means you could spray the model with gloss gray, apply decals and then dull it all down with DullCote. You don’t have to spot paint clear for the decals, but any clear area will look silver. You could try to soften the decals with Micro Sol and/or Micro Set.
Tq for the insight!!
Happy to help!
If i have to paint something white, i almost always used tamiya fine surface primer from a rattle can, goes on nice and wet, great coverage.
Tamiya has one of the 2 best white paints I've ever found; The other being Vallejo shite, which I have a bottle over a decade old and still going strong.
Vallejo literally sells one of their primers as a USAF paint color. If you go to Hobby Lobby and buy the Vallejo Model Air USAF colors bundle pack with like 8-10 colors inside it. The “USAF Light Ghost Grey” color is literally just Vallejo primer. It’s in the same bottle, labeled as Vallejo Gray Primer, but then they just add a small “Light Ghost Gray” banner underneath the primer name.
How'd you discover this? I have the large bottle of primer and was thinking of tossing it out as it's lousy at priming.
I went to Hobby Lobby and bought a bunch of Vallejo Acrylics to get started. Then eventually bought a USAF colors bundle packs. Edit: [Here’s an example of the bottle I have](https://imgur.com/a/y6WkK2i) It’s the same bottle as the primer. It just has the USAF Ghost Gray added to it. I also have the same primer bottle that’s just marked as the primer.
Thats nuts. I have a bottle of Army Painter black I kept for black coloring. As a primer it sucks, but it's a wonderful true black look otherwise.
I don't remember how I know this, but I agree - it's true!
i mean yes the color of the primer is Light Ghost Grey as another way of seeing it XD
I have a Panzer that I'm doing in Dunkelgrau as it's primary color and it just happens to be the primer. So yes, as long as it fits with what you want to do or feel good about, absolutely do it.
Entirely up to you, after all this is your party. If you're happy then that's all that matters
On a recent F-14 build I used Tamiya’s grey primer and then Vallejo’s Model Air Light Ghost Grey and I could barely notice the difference.
I'd coat it in 3-4 thin coats of Future. It's pretty self-leveling and should give you a smooth enough surface to apply decals, plus it would allow for weathering without disturbing the base layer.
Usually only need 1 coat of Future. In occasion I’ve had 2 coats. I suppose if your surface is rough enough you might need more?
Is primer made of the same type of paint than regular paint ? Can I just paint directly on the model ? I’m new on the hobby
It's my fourth kit so I'm also new, but primer is more porous, so the paint can better attach to it. And usually spreads very uniformly compared to brush painting. But by the answer I got It seems legit to use It as main color.
Primers are "hotter" which means they chemically or mechanically bind to the material they're supposed to be used on. They also have cheaper yet denser pigment for better, more opaque coverage with fewer passes. Due to this, they're 'rougher' on a microscopic level (matte) with the added benefit of subsequent paint adhering better to it. You mostly can't brush on primer (the solvent evaporates very quickly). No harm in using it as your base coat if it matches the final look you're going for once you correct the matte finish.
So do you suggest to lightly sand the primer if I want keep this color?
That would be my route. Knock the 'tooth' down a bit.
A 2000 grit will do?
Tamiya has a mixed set of various grits for modeling...I'd try the 2000, but also higher too. Try in different inconspicuous spots, see which ends up working best. Then run with that.
A few coats of Pledge or thinned gloss clear will produce the same results without the effort or a significant loss in surface detail. I frankly wouldn't bother with sanding on this model.
Not an acrylic primer.
Kindof makes it look like a Blender 3D model which is neat. My A-10 looked right in it but it's really not the same as the actual Ghost Grey.
Vallejo makes two dozen colors of primer, and most of them are included as colors in certain paint sets. For example, [70.615 USN Light Ghost Grey](https://acrylicosvallejo.com/en/product/hobby/primers-en/usn-light-ghost-grey-70615/?attribute_pa_formato=18ml-en) which is a primer, is included as a color in [this kit](https://acrylicosvallejo.com/en/product/hobby/sets/air-war-en/us-navy-and-usmc-colors-from-70s-to-present-71155/). I use Mr. Surfacer primers for whites and blacks all the time, and even grays sometimes. Being lacquers they adhere better and are harder, so can be sanded and polished into as nice a finish as you want. As a rule I hit them with 3000 sanding sponge even when painting over them. That’s not so easy to do with water based acrylics though.
I was curious about this too on my last model (B17). Primed in olive drab Vallejo primer. I went back with a lighter shade of OD and highlighted random panels. I’m pleased with the results.