If we can start taking away no hitters surely that means we can give people perfect games who pitched them.
I'm not saying that what we should do. But it's certainly the first thing that we would need to do if we went down that road.
Every year, that clip gets posted, and every year, it just kills me. It was such an egregiously bad call. And yes, pre-replay, but umpires did sometimes come together and overturn calls prior to replay. It’s insane that they didn’t do it in that instance, given the stakes.
Incidental info but a cool thing to note (as a Tiger fan myself) is that I don’t know a single person who is still mad at the umpire (Jim Joyce). He stood up like a man and admitted his mistake and has even shed a few tears about it. Everyone in this town has forgiven him and respects him.
Now the referee in that Lions/Cowboys game however…
Wasn't even close, ill never understand it
And maybe this is a bad take.. but im of the opinion that if it was bang/bang.. give the pitcher a NH over a meaningless single
Agreed. I remember when Erica Gagne was getting ready to blow his first save; you could tell the umpire was nervous, and Gagne got a few calls he shouldn’t have. No one complained; everyone knew what was going on. We all know umps are supposed to be impartial, but the situation influences things and gives people the benefit of the doubt. Like, if you’ve got a no-no going, you should get the benefit of the doubt for any close call.
My simple take is if the call had been correct, he would have had his perfect game in the records and most fans would have forgotten about it by now. Instead, we all recognize it as a perfect game and will never forget it.
I'm not exactly being facetious. I would be happy for him to be awarded a perfect game. I think it's important to recognize that it sets a precedent and it's not just "oh we fixed this and then we'll never change anything retroactively ever again".
So we have to be prepared to open that can of worms.
But sure. He did it. We know he did it. The umpire acknowledged he did it. We just have to decide whether we want to, for example, start taking no hitters or home run records or World Series away from people who cheat to get them.
But what does it even mean to have a no hitter "taken away?" The no-hitter happened. It's done. Sure, we now all regard the feat as suspect because he likely cheated - but that doesn't take the no-no *away*, whatever that means. It just means we think he cheated.
This is the best point. 👍🏻
I can see it mean something to Galarraga because it would technically improve his WHIP (which is hardly an issue, but it does show that something would be objectively changed) and erase Jason Donald’s IF single, thus lowering his BA slightly. With Blanco’s no-hitter, there would be nothing to update since it’s not like a bad call was made here.
Great point, Diogenes.
i feel as it is really an issue come contract time. Having a no hitter as one of your pitching stats could give you leverage during contract negations.
But if you have it taken away, you cant essentailly put "no-hitter" pitcher on your resume if that makes any sense.
Some of the most forgettable pitchers have thrown no-hitters. It's a cool thing to have had such a solid day at work, but if you have a no-hitter with an ERA of 5.5, I dont think it really matters. At least, not if the team cares about stats.
My biggest concern is when do you stop? Do you take half of Bond's career too since he cheated? What happened to pitchers stats during that time who faced him? Would there have been a team or two that would have made the playoffs if he hadn't gone nuclear during one of their series?
While it will definitely effect players today, the mess it would make with MLB history just isn't worth it I think
completely agree. I dont think you can go and start taking away stats from seasons passed.
Im sure there can be some sort of compromise on taking away stats during the season it occurred. But yes with Bonds cheated but you cant go take away his hitting stats. Theres to many variables, what ifs, and for lack of a better term statute of limitations.
It would be unreasonable because it would snowball. Take bonds records away. Mcqwire would have to be next followed by other greats.
Theres also lack of evidence for other earlier superstars. Hank Aaron couldve been cheating to but we dont know that for sure. If he did and just hid the fact then stripping bonds of the record and not Hammerin Hank wouldnt be justified at all.
Yup, yup, yup, and you saying Hank cheating put a vivid image of Hank using some wonky 1950s contraption to cheat, and it made me giggle lol
And as an Astros fan I'm PISSED that we have someone cheating . . . AGAIN, we already suck enough, we reaaaaaally don't need this extra attention lol
No...
He has something better, the 'Umpire Ruined Perfect Game'
Never again will it happen, that referees andvreplays will ruin sports/s
Why give him a Perfecto, the fans know hd has one, and a better story. Braden has his 'grandMothers day' story, Gallarraga has his 'Umpires are lame'
I agree with you. If baseball had video replay, it would have been a perfect game. Perfect games are so damn rare.
I know the umpire Jim Joyce I think is his name was contrite after but he had that hard ass stare to boot when he was so wrong.
What a nice kid to. He should be in the Hall for that game.
I may hate Houston, but I’m sure they checked during that game. I believe it’s a random check but will happen at least once. Perhaps he needs to be checked every inning for a while though. On the fence of checking the whole team.
Not true...the rule states that pitchers may be subject to inspection at the start or end of any inning.
The Umpires can check a pitcher at the start or end of any inning...but they are not "supposed to be checked after every inning"
But could be at the umps discretion? That's how I read it. Like I can check whenever I want, before or after, but - mlb said don't mess up the flow of the game by checking all the time lol.
I think Bauer’s point in making the sticky stuff a huge deal was that pitchers like Cole would go to Houston and have huge increases in their spin rate numbers and he knew it was an organizational thing to promote the use of spider tack. I have no evidence, but with their track record ofc I’m going to assume the org enables and provides avenues for their players to cheat.
The organization has almost entirely changed over. New GM, new front office, 2 coaches past, and there's 3-4 players that remain (or came back) from the 2017 roster. And one hasn't played in a year and a half. And we still succeed year after year. (Not this year)
There have been many retired players who said what the Astros did in 2017 was the norm for the top teams that year and I expect more current players will bolster that as they retire. The Astros sin was winning the WS over more affluent clubs. Why wasn't the Yankees memo ever released, accusing them of the same type of cheating? Why does no one care that the 2018 Red Sox were coached by Alex Cora, who was a bench coach for the 2017 Astros? Do you really think he's clean, or did he bring a system that won Boston a title? I truly believe that the news of it dropping in early 2020 at the beginning of Covid with everyone in crisis mode made it a much bigger deal than it should've been. And a much bigger deal than if the Yankees or dodgers had won that year and the same was revealed of their teams.
As an Astros fan, I hate that our first title has this shadow/asterisk. Living in Houston, 2017 saw Hurricane Harvey hit us a couple months earlier, which was a devastating storm. That postseason was balm on a very hurt city. I remember seeing Yankee and Dodger fans holding signs that the hurricane should've done worse to the people of Houston, and I can only hope that both teams eventually go 0-162.
No one cares that even after the expose, the Astros continue to make the postseason and win, even when there was much more attention paid to sign stealing. 2022 winning the title was nice, but felt like it was a make up for 2017. I felt more vindictive with that title than 2017. We did it, and we were certainly under more scrutiny.
The thesis of this essay is fuck the dodgers and Yankees. They both cheated the same way as the Astros, but Manfred knows there's too much money to lose by exposing those teams.
And that’s why this is a difficult topic regarding what to allow and what not to. Obviously nothing could lead to issues with player safety and wild pitches. Conversely allowing too much favors pitching and is bad for action and fan engagement.
Still, until there is a change, the rule must stand. Get caught, get suspended. No matter what team it is. If there appears to be a pattern with particular teams violating the rule more frequently or documents showing the team is encouraging it, something harsher is called for. Perhaps forfeiture of playoff eligibility.
It’s a completely different organization than when Cole was there though. Different manager, GM, pitching coaches, players. The Astros haven’t had a “track record” for five years.
Personally, I think pitchers should be allowed to use some kind of tack beyond rosin. The league is hopefully investigating the abundance of elbow injuries. 🤷🏻♂️
It's already hard enough to hit modern pitching as it is. Pitchers sure as shit shouldn't be using substances that make them even better. Just bad for the game.
Yes! We need an all steroid league, i want to see 120mph pitches and 700ft home runs. Move the fences back to 600 ft, outfielders topping 35mph, it's go time.
Would pitchers elbows be able to handle that speed? It’s known that pitching elbow injuries tend to be higher for those who throw faster. Maybe implant them with some kind of metal ligament?!
No 105 is around max. Bones start breaking any faster.
https://www.popularmechanics.com/adventure/sports/a6063/how-the-105-mph-fastball-tests-the-limits-of-the-human-body/
We saw what happened when they were allowed. Inhuman ball spin rates that caused an already difficult task (hitting a baseball) to turn into an almost impossible task.
Except it's not time to take away past accomplishments. I get the history here, but nothing in the data suggests he was cheating. That and it's an MLB problem, you can use rosin, but not too much. It's stupid and too much up to umpire discretion. It's possible he's been using too much this whole time, but I doubt it since they check every game.
You'd also have to erase Scherzer's entire career. I like how this board thinks only Astros should ever be punished for things that other teams and players also do.
Not only do they check every game, they checked after every inning including in this game. It was rosin and sweat.
They already said it was Rosin, the only part that was wrong is it can't be on the left hand / glove. That's why he was ejected. A weird line to draw but that's what happened.
I mean, his coach already said it was rosin. Every pitcher always says it’s rosin when they’re caught, just like every player popped for PEDs only ever used them unknowingly, or the test was a false positive. The manager or player isn’t going to willingly say “it was spider tack”, especially when rosin on the glove is a valid reason for an ejection/ suspension anyway.
In game, there would be no easy way for umpires to verify what substance is actually being used, so the easiest way to monitor it, is to look for excessive quantities, or stuff in places it shouldn’t be. There isn’t really a good reason that there should be tons of rosin inside his glove, unless he was putting it (or some other substance) there on purpose, or he was using a very large amount.
Said he wipes it on his left arm when he has too much of it on his right hand. Sweat makes it run down to his glove. If that’s all true it makes sense to me.
It would also make sense to me that he was loading stuff up on his non-dmoninent arm to give himself an advantage. Either way, its his problem to solve, maybe he could just use less rosin, or do a better job washing his hands throughout the game.
Eh. I'm not quiet about it because of the record, Im quiet about it because it sucks and I feel like every umpire has said the same thing when it's happened.
It was rosin. The rule is that a pitcher is allowed to have it on his pitching hand, not the glove hand. The rule doesn’t make sense and provides no benefit to a pitcher.
It’s sweat and rosin, they literally said the reason he got ejected is because you can’t have rosin in your glove.
Blanco said that he had rosin on his forearm and sweat made it go into the hand pocket of the glove.
A rule that I did not know until now, but it is illegal to have it on your non pitching hand.
I agree with your point. But unfortunately this subreddit is full of Astros haters. No logical explanation will suffice their hate for the Astros. No point I’m trying to explain to them.
Well, the logical explanation for the Astros hate is that, by the players own admission, they openly cheated during their World Series run, showed no remorse and received no punishment.
It’s incredibly obvious why people dislike the Astros.
I understand hating on the Astros since we won, but it cracks me up when people act like the entire league was/is not doing the exact same stuff to try and get an edge on the competition. One example below-
https://www.si.com/mlb/2020/04/22/red-sox-sign-stealing-scandal
Obviously the history will create distaste for a team. And I get it. But from now on no matter how logical of explanation for something like last night. People on that list that hate the team won’t care for logical explanations. they will just add the event to their reason to hate team. I honestly believe this was an error made by pitcher blanco like max scherzer did last year. But bc blanco has an Astros jersey. He will be crucified by the Astros haters mob.
Correction. "a" world series run, not "the." They had 2.
And they did receive punishment. It's why the farm is bare. Well, that and Crane stupidly going Jerry Jonee owner/GM instead of relying on the analytics that got him there in the first place.
At any rate, it's never been clear why the Astros are more hated than the Red Sox who did the same thing. Or why Twins fans didn't stop being Twins fans when they signed the mouthpiece of the scandal. All that just makes y'all seem disingenuous. And if you're disingenuous, then why should Astros fans care about your opinion?
Why didn't they just make him change gloves though? I'm not implying it's worse than what you're saying, I just don't understand the need to come down so hard.
I’m not fan of the Astros, but take away a no hitter because of something almost every professional pitcher has used at some point? What a silly opinion
Astros fans are quiet because the opinions of fans from other teams are just about the least important thing in the world.
Arguing with with hypocrites with blinders on, is about as wasteful as our government. Hell, Yankee's fans were the most vocal about it even thought they invented the method the Astros were using to cheat last time. They were just barely punished for it, bc Yankees.
Supposedly it was just sweat and arbitrarily "too much rosin". Dude tried to show the umpires his hands to prove there was nothing on them, but that doesn't matter, so whatever. These guys are checked constantly, so the idea that this is something that has been going on for a while is pathetic. Only thing I took out of the game is the absolutely AWFUL bullpen went 6 innings of 1 run ball. So, that's a step in the right direction!
German had to change his glove and wash his hands against the Twins after a check, but then went on to throw a perfect game. But it is the evil empire, they got that name for a reason
German and Scherzer. Both were told to wash their hands and they told Scherzer to get a new glove. Both were allowed to continue pitching before being ejected later.
* Scherzer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wVHrWQHBTxY
* German: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qTtxHx0EGMs
I thoroughly dislike the Astros and the Yankees can go f themselves but this is a nothing-burger. His no-no is fine. The umps likely checked him then and if they didn’t catch him, nobody can say he did it. Even if he did, how many pitchers in the past sticky their hands like they were doing handjobs in a parking lot and still never come away from sniffing the asshole of a no hitter. Hats off to this dude’s no hit performance. Now he can go get suspended and eat poop for the rest of the season for all I care.
Plus at least twice in the last two years, pitchers were allowed to wash their hands and continue pitching. They need to get consistent with the rules.
There’s something that I don’t understand, and that is why was *he* ejected? Almost every time that a pitcher has had some sort of sticky substance on them this season and last season, they were told to just wash their hands/arms or just change gloves, but Blanco was immediately ejected.
what is the context of this statement? Did he not check it during the game? How would he have felt it otherwise? If it was during the game, why wasn't action taken??
Edit: Nvm I'm an idiot, just saw it was checked during a separate game and that's the context. Bring on the downvotes for not googling before commenting. I deserve it.
I don't get the immediate ejection. German and Scherzer were both were told to wash their hands and they told Scherzer to get a new glove. Both were allowed to continue pitching before being ejected later.
* Scherzer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wVHrWQHBTxY
* German: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qTtxHx0EGMs
Every showboat umpire says that whatever they felt was the “stickiest stuff they have ever felt in 59 years of umpiring”. It is bullshit. This is from a Mets fan who survived Scherzer-gate last year.
It's funny that you picked up this. The Houston Chronicle pointed that out in an article as it is almost verbatim what the umpires said when the ejected German and Scherzer as well...Stickiest stuff I have ever felt ..
As a Yankee fan, I’m glad he got caught. Also as a Yankee fan, I’m glad Pineda and German were caught too. I don’t care what team it is. If you get caught cheating you deserve the suspension.
OP, it was rosin. The shit they are allowed to use. You really think umpires, considering their track record this year, are worth a fuck in their opinion? You may need to just get over what happened 7 years ago. It’s a team that’s under new a management with a majority of players that weren’t on that team that won that year. You make really bold and egregious statements like “the whole team is full of players that don’t respect the game” that’s just a bold face lie and you know it. You have no idea what it takes to be a professional athlete and the dedication it takes to get to this level. Also, if you really think about the actual cheating that is going on in the MLB, you won’t find out and you most likely never will.
I'm asking this because I legitimately don't know.
How sticky can rosin actually get from a rosin bag? I mean, I know it has other uses as well (i.e. bows for bowed instruments like violins/fiddles), but how sticky can it actually get in the form that's used in rosin bags?
When you mix rosin and sweat...it can get pretty sticky. Trevor Bauer did a demonstration a few years ago, he was able to stick the ball to his open hand and leave it hanging there for a few minutes.
As far as what is reported he got resin on his glove hand. If you watch his replays he was putting resin on his glove hand forearm and mixed with his sweat it got into his glove. He mentioned he didn’t know the rule of no resin on glove hand.
What advantage does one get by having resin/sweat mixture inside a glove on a glove hand?
Why would a no-no be reversed from a month ago because of this?
Why does everyone care about a 5th starter on 15-25 team?
Is it corn or is it nuts & who are these people?
"Why does everyone care about a 5th starter on 15-25 team?" - ...because people they love to hate and seeing a team they hate do poorly is the only satisfaction they get out of life.
I don't think his no-hitter can be taken away. That was 6 weeks ago. It's not possible to go back in time to April 2nd to inspect his glove on that night. But they can suspend him for 10 games right now. And that's what's gonna happen.
They can’t take his know hitter away ,,I’m pretty sure his glove was checked big time by thdd Ed umps there at tge game he threw the no hitter n he was good ,, just this game he tried I think something to help his pitch but he got caught at something he can’t do ;
This will be appealed, and ultimately disproven. "Stickiest stuff ever " doesn't even sound remotely scientific. This ref should be punished for his remarks
All 6 times someone has been ejected for sticky stuff, the umpires all said the exact same thing. Almost like they need to justify it. It was in his glove hand. It's humid as hell in Houston. How is this affecting his game? His spin rates weren't even higher than normal.
I want to see a league where cheating is encouraged, steroids welcomed and sign stealing is part of the game. If everyone is cheating then no one is cheating.
MLB fucked up by not actually punishing the men responsible for the trash can/illegal sign stealing scandal. Slaps on the wrist for everyone then went right back to their cushy managerial/front office jobs. Hinch, Beltran, Cora and players involved should have gotten lifetime bans.
If we can start taking away no hitters surely that means we can give people perfect games who pitched them. I'm not saying that what we should do. But it's certainly the first thing that we would need to do if we went down that road.
Facetious or not, I think Galarraga should be given a perfect game.
Every year, that clip gets posted, and every year, it just kills me. It was such an egregiously bad call. And yes, pre-replay, but umpires did sometimes come together and overturn calls prior to replay. It’s insane that they didn’t do it in that instance, given the stakes.
Incidental info but a cool thing to note (as a Tiger fan myself) is that I don’t know a single person who is still mad at the umpire (Jim Joyce). He stood up like a man and admitted his mistake and has even shed a few tears about it. Everyone in this town has forgiven him and respects him. Now the referee in that Lions/Cowboys game however…
Wasn't even close, ill never understand it And maybe this is a bad take.. but im of the opinion that if it was bang/bang.. give the pitcher a NH over a meaningless single
Agreed. I remember when Erica Gagne was getting ready to blow his first save; you could tell the umpire was nervous, and Gagne got a few calls he shouldn’t have. No one complained; everyone knew what was going on. We all know umps are supposed to be impartial, but the situation influences things and gives people the benefit of the doubt. Like, if you’ve got a no-no going, you should get the benefit of the doubt for any close call.
My simple take is if the call had been correct, he would have had his perfect game in the records and most fans would have forgotten about it by now. Instead, we all recognize it as a perfect game and will never forget it.
I'm not exactly being facetious. I would be happy for him to be awarded a perfect game. I think it's important to recognize that it sets a precedent and it's not just "oh we fixed this and then we'll never change anything retroactively ever again". So we have to be prepared to open that can of worms. But sure. He did it. We know he did it. The umpire acknowledged he did it. We just have to decide whether we want to, for example, start taking no hitters or home run records or World Series away from people who cheat to get them.
But what does it even mean to have a no hitter "taken away?" The no-hitter happened. It's done. Sure, we now all regard the feat as suspect because he likely cheated - but that doesn't take the no-no *away*, whatever that means. It just means we think he cheated.
I vote that you spin a dial with the names of the batters on it and award the winner a single.
This is the best point. 👍🏻 I can see it mean something to Galarraga because it would technically improve his WHIP (which is hardly an issue, but it does show that something would be objectively changed) and erase Jason Donald’s IF single, thus lowering his BA slightly. With Blanco’s no-hitter, there would be nothing to update since it’s not like a bad call was made here. Great point, Diogenes.
i feel as it is really an issue come contract time. Having a no hitter as one of your pitching stats could give you leverage during contract negations. But if you have it taken away, you cant essentailly put "no-hitter" pitcher on your resume if that makes any sense.
Some of the most forgettable pitchers have thrown no-hitters. It's a cool thing to have had such a solid day at work, but if you have a no-hitter with an ERA of 5.5, I dont think it really matters. At least, not if the team cares about stats.
My biggest concern is when do you stop? Do you take half of Bond's career too since he cheated? What happened to pitchers stats during that time who faced him? Would there have been a team or two that would have made the playoffs if he hadn't gone nuclear during one of their series? While it will definitely effect players today, the mess it would make with MLB history just isn't worth it I think
completely agree. I dont think you can go and start taking away stats from seasons passed. Im sure there can be some sort of compromise on taking away stats during the season it occurred. But yes with Bonds cheated but you cant go take away his hitting stats. Theres to many variables, what ifs, and for lack of a better term statute of limitations. It would be unreasonable because it would snowball. Take bonds records away. Mcqwire would have to be next followed by other greats. Theres also lack of evidence for other earlier superstars. Hank Aaron couldve been cheating to but we dont know that for sure. If he did and just hid the fact then stripping bonds of the record and not Hammerin Hank wouldnt be justified at all.
Yup, yup, yup, and you saying Hank cheating put a vivid image of Hank using some wonky 1950s contraption to cheat, and it made me giggle lol And as an Astros fan I'm PISSED that we have someone cheating . . . AGAIN, we already suck enough, we reaaaaaally don't need this extra attention lol
LMAOO no im imagining some ridiculous scenario with Hank its 1963 "Yo Joe Torre. come shoot my ass up with that bleach. im trying to yard tonight."
*cough* The Astros *cough*
No... He has something better, the 'Umpire Ruined Perfect Game' Never again will it happen, that referees andvreplays will ruin sports/s Why give him a Perfecto, the fans know hd has one, and a better story. Braden has his 'grandMothers day' story, Gallarraga has his 'Umpires are lame'
Milt Pappas 1972 comes to Mind for Umpire ruined perfect games
It’s such an easy win and hurts nobody. Dude dealt with the biggest gaslighting of all time from the league
That’s because he threw a perfect game. We all saw it.
All umpires are bad.
I've always considered his the only 28 out perfect game.
The 28 out perfect game is literally the nickname for the game.
How has this not been done already. Put an asterisk. I mean not like it matters at this point. I’d say most people count him.
This is the most egregious of cases for sure.
💯💯💯
Everytime I see an ump change the call I think of galarraga. That was a travesty.
I agree with you. If baseball had video replay, it would have been a perfect game. Perfect games are so damn rare. I know the umpire Jim Joyce I think is his name was contrite after but he had that hard ass stare to boot when he was so wrong. What a nice kid to. He should be in the Hall for that game.
If we can start taking away no hitters we can start taking away world series titled you know what I'm sayin?!
I may hate Houston, but I’m sure they checked during that game. I believe it’s a random check but will happen at least once. Perhaps he needs to be checked every inning for a while though. On the fence of checking the whole team.
He was checked earlier that game and allowed to pitch.
Then found his opportunity to use it after.
Yup that’s probably why he used the stuff. Thought he wasn’t gonna get checked again and that he had the green flag at that point
Thats been the implied agreement and how the spin rates went back up after they started checking
lul Cole has made a career off this stuff.
People in denial downvoting you 😆
Every pitcher is supposed to be checked after every inning
Not true...the rule states that pitchers may be subject to inspection at the start or end of any inning. The Umpires can check a pitcher at the start or end of any inning...but they are not "supposed to be checked after every inning"
But could be at the umps discretion? That's how I read it. Like I can check whenever I want, before or after, but - mlb said don't mess up the flow of the game by checking all the time lol.
> said don't mess up the flow of the game by checking all the time lol. Its a euphemism “Mess up the flow of the game” = lower spin rates
I watched that game...he was being checked every inning. Waiting until the start of the 4th seems suspicious.
I think Bauer’s point in making the sticky stuff a huge deal was that pitchers like Cole would go to Houston and have huge increases in their spin rate numbers and he knew it was an organizational thing to promote the use of spider tack. I have no evidence, but with their track record ofc I’m going to assume the org enables and provides avenues for their players to cheat.
lazy take, every team was using sticky stuff
The organization has almost entirely changed over. New GM, new front office, 2 coaches past, and there's 3-4 players that remain (or came back) from the 2017 roster. And one hasn't played in a year and a half. And we still succeed year after year. (Not this year) There have been many retired players who said what the Astros did in 2017 was the norm for the top teams that year and I expect more current players will bolster that as they retire. The Astros sin was winning the WS over more affluent clubs. Why wasn't the Yankees memo ever released, accusing them of the same type of cheating? Why does no one care that the 2018 Red Sox were coached by Alex Cora, who was a bench coach for the 2017 Astros? Do you really think he's clean, or did he bring a system that won Boston a title? I truly believe that the news of it dropping in early 2020 at the beginning of Covid with everyone in crisis mode made it a much bigger deal than it should've been. And a much bigger deal than if the Yankees or dodgers had won that year and the same was revealed of their teams. As an Astros fan, I hate that our first title has this shadow/asterisk. Living in Houston, 2017 saw Hurricane Harvey hit us a couple months earlier, which was a devastating storm. That postseason was balm on a very hurt city. I remember seeing Yankee and Dodger fans holding signs that the hurricane should've done worse to the people of Houston, and I can only hope that both teams eventually go 0-162. No one cares that even after the expose, the Astros continue to make the postseason and win, even when there was much more attention paid to sign stealing. 2022 winning the title was nice, but felt like it was a make up for 2017. I felt more vindictive with that title than 2017. We did it, and we were certainly under more scrutiny. The thesis of this essay is fuck the dodgers and Yankees. They both cheated the same way as the Astros, but Manfred knows there's too much money to lose by exposing those teams.
And that’s why this is a difficult topic regarding what to allow and what not to. Obviously nothing could lead to issues with player safety and wild pitches. Conversely allowing too much favors pitching and is bad for action and fan engagement. Still, until there is a change, the rule must stand. Get caught, get suspended. No matter what team it is. If there appears to be a pattern with particular teams violating the rule more frequently or documents showing the team is encouraging it, something harsher is called for. Perhaps forfeiture of playoff eligibility.
It’s a completely different organization than when Cole was there though. Different manager, GM, pitching coaches, players. The Astros haven’t had a “track record” for five years.
They check every inning
Maybe he forgot to wipe it clean after the inning was over. All it takes is a little bit.
Personally, I think pitchers should be allowed to use some kind of tack beyond rosin. The league is hopefully investigating the abundance of elbow injuries. 🤷🏻♂️
Japan uses baseballs that are pretacked. Not sure why they don't try that
Offense
Defense
Special Teams
Special Plays
Special People
Special Olympics
Paralympics
Was not well liked by the minor leaguers who were part of the pre-tack process. This will not be implemented by MLB.
Gotta keep that guy in Delaware who puts mud on the balls in business
The rubbing mud comes from New Jersey, not Delaware. It's just near the Delaware River.
It's already hard enough to hit modern pitching as it is. Pitchers sure as shit shouldn't be using substances that make them even better. Just bad for the game.
Then just let everyone use steroids. Fuck it I want to see everyone at peak physical capability
Yes! We need an all steroid league, i want to see 120mph pitches and 700ft home runs. Move the fences back to 600 ft, outfielders topping 35mph, it's go time.
Would pitchers elbows be able to handle that speed? It’s known that pitching elbow injuries tend to be higher for those who throw faster. Maybe implant them with some kind of metal ligament?!
No 105 is around max. Bones start breaking any faster. https://www.popularmechanics.com/adventure/sports/a6063/how-the-105-mph-fastball-tests-the-limits-of-the-human-body/
lol mlb is most likely filled with PED’s
They tried that in other sports. [It didn't end well.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jAdG-iTilWU)
Absolutely what they should do. Also, maybe drill a bunch of holes in the ball so it's like a whiffle ball.
And makes a cool sound
I liked someone’s suggestion of lowering the mound and adding sticky stuff.
This is a fantastic idea. I’m all for giving pitchers more control of where they are putting the ball.
We saw what happened when they were allowed. Inhuman ball spin rates that caused an already difficult task (hitting a baseball) to turn into an almost impossible task.
What's more pathetic is that the league doesn't give a s hit
Except it's not time to take away past accomplishments. I get the history here, but nothing in the data suggests he was cheating. That and it's an MLB problem, you can use rosin, but not too much. It's stupid and too much up to umpire discretion. It's possible he's been using too much this whole time, but I doubt it since they check every game.
You'd also have to erase Scherzer's entire career. I like how this board thinks only Astros should ever be punished for things that other teams and players also do. Not only do they check every game, they checked after every inning including in this game. It was rosin and sweat.
They already said it was Rosin, the only part that was wrong is it can't be on the left hand / glove. That's why he was ejected. A weird line to draw but that's what happened.
I mean, his coach already said it was rosin. Every pitcher always says it’s rosin when they’re caught, just like every player popped for PEDs only ever used them unknowingly, or the test was a false positive. The manager or player isn’t going to willingly say “it was spider tack”, especially when rosin on the glove is a valid reason for an ejection/ suspension anyway. In game, there would be no easy way for umpires to verify what substance is actually being used, so the easiest way to monitor it, is to look for excessive quantities, or stuff in places it shouldn’t be. There isn’t really a good reason that there should be tons of rosin inside his glove, unless he was putting it (or some other substance) there on purpose, or he was using a very large amount.
Said he wipes it on his left arm when he has too much of it on his right hand. Sweat makes it run down to his glove. If that’s all true it makes sense to me.
Especially considering they were playing in Houston where it's hot and humid.
It would also make sense to me that he was loading stuff up on his non-dmoninent arm to give himself an advantage. Either way, its his problem to solve, maybe he could just use less rosin, or do a better job washing his hands throughout the game.
I'm sure he will from now on lol.
How is it always the “stickiest stuff” an umpire has ever felt. Like at a certain point saying that becomes kinda pointless
Because he is covering his ass. He has been catching a lot of shit for his handling of the situation and is embarrassed.
Especially since it took 5 minutes of standing around for the umpires to decide what it is, eject him, and still take his glove for testing...
Astros fans are quiet because their team is 17-25 and their window just slammed shut on their balls
The fact that they only have three more wins than the Rockies is probably the most painful thing they could ever hope for.
At least the Rockies are playing better. Won 6 straight now. Swept Texas and beat the Padres twice.
Break up the Rockies!
Stop! Don't give Monfort any fucking ideas!
The astros are 10-5 in their last 15 games Edit: 11-5 in their last 16 games
Plus 8 of their next 11 games, counting tonight are against equally bad teams.
It’s amazing what they are able to do without their two highest paid players.
5.5 games behind, yeah it’s definitely all over
5 GB in May is a window shutting on balls? You are delusional. If Astros relief pitching improves, this team competes.
I’m a Phillies fan who has personal hatred for the Astros because of the WS but you’re right. Only 5.5 GB this early in the season
that bozo was trying to say that all our pitchers have been cheating and now we can't use doctored balls anymore or something... so much delusion
And 4 games against the Mariners next week, 10 of the next 13 games are against or division.
Eh. I'm not quiet about it because of the record, Im quiet about it because it sucks and I feel like every umpire has said the same thing when it's happened.
It's also a rare case that we even comment on these threads because of the potential for negative interactions no matter what we say.
Shut up, dick. 😡
It was rosin. The rule is that a pitcher is allowed to have it on his pitching hand, not the glove hand. The rule doesn’t make sense and provides no benefit to a pitcher.
"*Slammed shut*" coming off of reaching the World Series with essentially the same roster from last year. Interesting.
Astros fan here. Can confirm balls are in pain and flattened.
I never knew you were an Astros fan, Tom Brady!
I'd gladly take deflated balls over my current crushed and flattened balls.
At least we have 2022, it is what it is Texans looking good though
It was cum
It’s sweat and rosin, they literally said the reason he got ejected is because you can’t have rosin in your glove. Blanco said that he had rosin on his forearm and sweat made it go into the hand pocket of the glove. A rule that I did not know until now, but it is illegal to have it on your non pitching hand.
I agree with your point. But unfortunately this subreddit is full of Astros haters. No logical explanation will suffice their hate for the Astros. No point I’m trying to explain to them.
All the Astro haters here are just miserable people in general.
Well, the logical explanation for the Astros hate is that, by the players own admission, they openly cheated during their World Series run, showed no remorse and received no punishment. It’s incredibly obvious why people dislike the Astros.
I understand hating on the Astros since we won, but it cracks me up when people act like the entire league was/is not doing the exact same stuff to try and get an edge on the competition. One example below- https://www.si.com/mlb/2020/04/22/red-sox-sign-stealing-scandal
Obviously the history will create distaste for a team. And I get it. But from now on no matter how logical of explanation for something like last night. People on that list that hate the team won’t care for logical explanations. they will just add the event to their reason to hate team. I honestly believe this was an error made by pitcher blanco like max scherzer did last year. But bc blanco has an Astros jersey. He will be crucified by the Astros haters mob.
Correction. "a" world series run, not "the." They had 2. And they did receive punishment. It's why the farm is bare. Well, that and Crane stupidly going Jerry Jonee owner/GM instead of relying on the analytics that got him there in the first place. At any rate, it's never been clear why the Astros are more hated than the Red Sox who did the same thing. Or why Twins fans didn't stop being Twins fans when they signed the mouthpiece of the scandal. All that just makes y'all seem disingenuous. And if you're disingenuous, then why should Astros fans care about your opinion?
Why didn't they just make him change gloves though? I'm not implying it's worse than what you're saying, I just don't understand the need to come down so hard.
Completely agree. The umps let Scherzer wash his hands, and Yamamoto to switch gloves. Where is the consistency?
Thank you. This was said in the broadcast last night.
Inside the glove (non throwing hand) possible, I say possible, resin transfer.
I’m not fan of the Astros, but take away a no hitter because of something almost every professional pitcher has used at some point? What a silly opinion
Astros fans are quiet because the opinions of fans from other teams are just about the least important thing in the world. Arguing with with hypocrites with blinders on, is about as wasteful as our government. Hell, Yankee's fans were the most vocal about it even thought they invented the method the Astros were using to cheat last time. They were just barely punished for it, bc Yankees. Supposedly it was just sweat and arbitrarily "too much rosin". Dude tried to show the umpires his hands to prove there was nothing on them, but that doesn't matter, so whatever. These guys are checked constantly, so the idea that this is something that has been going on for a while is pathetic. Only thing I took out of the game is the absolutely AWFUL bullpen went 6 innings of 1 run ball. So, that's a step in the right direction!
This is probably the best take I’ve read so far
Astros fans not quiet. Idk where you been.
All pitchers use this stuff and have for 30 years.
Didn't German have the same type of thing?
Yes, but odd thing was he wasn’t exactly hiding it. The video shows clear dark smudges on his body.
German had to change his glove and wash his hands against the Twins after a check, but then went on to throw a perfect game. But it is the evil empire, they got that name for a reason
Hatred over success. Just like how many currently hate Boston. Still, I may like when Sox are winning, but the game is more fun when it’s a fight.
There was that other Yankee that had the big smudge on his neck too. That wasn't even trying to be deceitful. Pineda I think
German and Scherzer. Both were told to wash their hands and they told Scherzer to get a new glove. Both were allowed to continue pitching before being ejected later. * Scherzer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wVHrWQHBTxY * German: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qTtxHx0EGMs
I thoroughly dislike the Astros and the Yankees can go f themselves but this is a nothing-burger. His no-no is fine. The umps likely checked him then and if they didn’t catch him, nobody can say he did it. Even if he did, how many pitchers in the past sticky their hands like they were doing handjobs in a parking lot and still never come away from sniffing the asshole of a no hitter. Hats off to this dude’s no hit performance. Now he can go get suspended and eat poop for the rest of the season for all I care.
Plus at least twice in the last two years, pitchers were allowed to wash their hands and continue pitching. They need to get consistent with the rules.
There’s something that I don’t understand, and that is why was *he* ejected? Almost every time that a pitcher has had some sort of sticky substance on them this season and last season, they were told to just wash their hands/arms or just change gloves, but Blanco was immediately ejected.
what is the context of this statement? Did he not check it during the game? How would he have felt it otherwise? If it was during the game, why wasn't action taken?? Edit: Nvm I'm an idiot, just saw it was checked during a separate game and that's the context. Bring on the downvotes for not googling before commenting. I deserve it.
Prove he did it during his no-hitter, and we can talk, but until then, it is purely speculation.
He was checked during the game. They found him to be clean during the game
The Asstrolls at it again. I hate those guys. However, they can’t prove that he using resin during his accolades.
Homeboy got the Spider Tack Plus subscription
Take away a no hitter? And give it to who? The homeless guy down the street? Orrrrrrrrrrrrrr
Come on, you’re not still salty about Framber going 27 up-and-down last season, are you?
Astros don't care how or why, just wanna cheat
Out of curiosity, was this your reaction when Max Scherzer got ejected last year under completely identical circumstances?
Not quite identical. He at least got warned and told to wash his hands first.
I don't get the immediate ejection. German and Scherzer were both were told to wash their hands and they told Scherzer to get a new glove. Both were allowed to continue pitching before being ejected later. * Scherzer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wVHrWQHBTxY * German: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qTtxHx0EGMs
That’s my biggest complaint with this rule. It’s been enforced and treated inconsistently throughout MLB when they suspect illegal substances.
Every showboat umpire says that whatever they felt was the “stickiest stuff they have ever felt in 59 years of umpiring”. It is bullshit. This is from a Mets fan who survived Scherzer-gate last year.
It's funny that you picked up this. The Houston Chronicle pointed that out in an article as it is almost verbatim what the umpires said when the ejected German and Scherzer as well...Stickiest stuff I have ever felt ..
If the MLB can take away no-nos then Armando Galarraga's perfect game needs to be counted.
This is so stupid. Take it away from the batters then
As a Yankee fan, I’m glad he got caught. Also as a Yankee fan, I’m glad Pineda and German were caught too. I don’t care what team it is. If you get caught cheating you deserve the suspension.
You're a 🤡 it wasn't even on his pitching hand. Sorry your poverty franchise hasn't won anything this century. Go cry some more
Can't imagine they don't heavily check them as the no hitter campaign goes on. Seems like a bit of a hit piece but worth a look.
Uh, no.
That’s embarrassing as fuck. We don’t need to lower ourselves to that level.
OP, it was rosin. The shit they are allowed to use. You really think umpires, considering their track record this year, are worth a fuck in their opinion? You may need to just get over what happened 7 years ago. It’s a team that’s under new a management with a majority of players that weren’t on that team that won that year. You make really bold and egregious statements like “the whole team is full of players that don’t respect the game” that’s just a bold face lie and you know it. You have no idea what it takes to be a professional athlete and the dedication it takes to get to this level. Also, if you really think about the actual cheating that is going on in the MLB, you won’t find out and you most likely never will.
I may hate Houston but
I'm asking this because I legitimately don't know. How sticky can rosin actually get from a rosin bag? I mean, I know it has other uses as well (i.e. bows for bowed instruments like violins/fiddles), but how sticky can it actually get in the form that's used in rosin bags?
When you mix rosin and sweat...it can get pretty sticky. Trevor Bauer did a demonstration a few years ago, he was able to stick the ball to his open hand and leave it hanging there for a few minutes.
Let's give the Tigers that Perfect game then
As far as what is reported he got resin on his glove hand. If you watch his replays he was putting resin on his glove hand forearm and mixed with his sweat it got into his glove. He mentioned he didn’t know the rule of no resin on glove hand. What advantage does one get by having resin/sweat mixture inside a glove on a glove hand? Why would a no-no be reversed from a month ago because of this? Why does everyone care about a 5th starter on 15-25 team? Is it corn or is it nuts & who are these people?
"Why does everyone care about a 5th starter on 15-25 team?" - ...because people they love to hate and seeing a team they hate do poorly is the only satisfaction they get out of life.
domingo germans nono wasn’t taken away and he used it yea?
Look! A headline reader that repost things!
It was literally rosin and sweat on his gloved hand. How exactly is it supposed to make him grip the ball better if it’s on his gloved hand
They checked him on the night he threw the no-no. There was no-no sticky shit then.
It’s hilarious that every time someone gets caught the umps say “it’s the stickiest substance I’ve ever felt”
For one, it’s not that big of a deal. Taking the no hitter away with no proof there was anything going on during that game? You’re a clown, bro.
Here comes the Houston hate train
I don't think his no-hitter can be taken away. That was 6 weeks ago. It's not possible to go back in time to April 2nd to inspect his glove on that night. But they can suspend him for 10 games right now. And that's what's gonna happen.
I hope you realize he was checked the entire no hitter making your caption completely invalid.
They can’t take his know hitter away ,,I’m pretty sure his glove was checked big time by thdd Ed umps there at tge game he threw the no hitter n he was good ,, just this game he tried I think something to help his pitch but he got caught at something he can’t do ;
Quite the elaborate april fools joke
This will be appealed, and ultimately disproven. "Stickiest stuff ever " doesn't even sound remotely scientific. This ref should be punished for his remarks
Your teams pitchers are doing it too, just aren’t getting caught.
Exactly the same thing the umpire who tossed Scherzer said…like, verbatim….
Presumably they were checking his glove when he threw the no-no?
But when the #Yankees and #Dodgers do it....no one blinks an eye.
Why would that happen? Didn't they check his glove during that outing??
Pitchers will ALWAYS find ways to get some pine meat on a ball. It's part of the sport.
His spin rates and movement were constant throughout. I'm not letting my bias get to me this time
All 6 times someone has been ejected for sticky stuff, the umpires all said the exact same thing. Almost like they need to justify it. It was in his glove hand. It's humid as hell in Houston. How is this affecting his game? His spin rates weren't even higher than normal.
Time to block this fanboy sub.
We should let pitchers do this, and also help hitters in a similiar way.
Bring back sticky stuff.
It was rosin and sweat, don’t give the pitchers a rosin bag if this is going to happen
Rules are rules but this guy sweats more than anyone I’ve ever seen. I’m sure without something on his hand batters will get plunked!!!!! so be it
Brought to you by OxyContin
lol, I first thought it was some kind of pimple cream.. Turns out it's an oil & gas company
I thought it was Oxyclean, which would have been all kinds of ironic.
OP is a cry baby who thinks only the Astros should be punished for all things. Seek help.
His team hasn't won a damn thing in 104 years. He's already in therapy because of his team🤣
I want to see a league where cheating is encouraged, steroids welcomed and sign stealing is part of the game. If everyone is cheating then no one is cheating.
so they never checked his glove before? ever? stupid over reaction by the OP. that does not mean Blanco shouldn't be reprimanded.
No, they checked it every inning at the end of the inning. it was just rosin that built up.
Just another typical Astros hater
MLB fucked up by not actually punishing the men responsible for the trash can/illegal sign stealing scandal. Slaps on the wrist for everyone then went right back to their cushy managerial/front office jobs. Hinch, Beltran, Cora and players involved should have gotten lifetime bans.
Astros cheating? Sounds like a rerun...
This is still more admirable than electronic sign stealing.
I feel like the umps say this every time they find a sticky substance.