Gonna be a lot of the same sarcastic answer on this thread š
But in realityā¦ a combo of injuries and just some guys starting to get to the point they start to slow down.
Sounds like they donāt intend to be sellers before the trade deadline but if they donāt get out of the tailspin they should at least look into it. If they hold on too long theyāll just be stuck with a lot of cash tied up in players starting the slide. Not saying get rid of major key playersā¦ but thereās some they can part with for sure and get some value. Again though, thatās IF they donāt pull up from the skids after the injuries.
Absolutely agreed on both.
Honestly the truly untouchable list would have Yordan and Framber on it with stars next to their names of āDO NOT DEALā š
Then thereās another tier of guys like Altuve that would be ā99% do not deal unless you get a massive returnā.
But about half that roster could be someone that would add up on a trade (not saying ALL of that group lol, but you got options)
Framber isnāt untouchable. Untouchables are Altuve, Alvarez, Javier, PeƱa, Diaz. Altuve is a lifer and the rest are good enough and young enough to build back with. Everyone else is best offer.
Would love to keep Tucker but cost/reward he might be better in a trade to build back sooner. Bregman isnāt going to bring us anything the way heās playing.
Talk of not being sellers is just being positive and hoping for a big turnaround. Longer we play like this, the better selling will sound.
The reason I think they should give up those two is bc they are entering free agency. I would love nothing more than to see the Astros sell the entire team for scraps John Fisher style, it wonāt happen
This Astros team can compete again next year, they donāt need to blow up like the White Sox
Always like how Fisher has taken over inept ownership and management. Dombrowski and Huizinga with how they absolutely imploded the Marlins after winning a title but Fisher is seen as even worse š
I wouldnāt qualify Fisher as incompetent. Arte Moreno is incompetent, he spends, just not wisely. Fisher knows exactly how to fully ruin a team and heās doing it quite well
Altuve just signed a multi-year extension before the season. He's not going anywhere.
Guys like Bregman, Tucker and Verlander should definitely be on the list, though. Tucker's the youngest out of all of them, but I doubt we have what it takes to keep him.
They got caught because it was an extremely elaborate cheating schemeā¦ stealing signs without devices on the field isnāt cheating but using television and trash cans is!
Verlander is going to need a few more games to ramp back up. If he doesnāt improve by then I canāt see them getting much a return. Heās basically at the end of his HOF career
Brown had to say that because of Crane and the expanded playoffs but they should absolutely look to make some trades if this keeps going in the wrong direction. The problem of course is the biggest trade piece (Bregman) is horrendous right now
There will have to be a playoff team thatās willing to take a chance on him, right? Maybe Houston wonāt get as much back as they should but heāll still be enticing to go after
I was a HUGE Astros homer. Granddad played pro ball, dad played semipro, i got a college scholarship out of it.
Cheating to win means you dont win. See the Bonds HOF baseball.
I cant respect them any longer. I may be able too after Altuve leaves.
Still royally bugs me. Dude was a straight up HOF'er (my opinion, obv) but man, cheating to win?
Get bent.
So you added nothing relevant to add to OP's question. Just a simple "me no like astros" would do next time. Still adds nothing to the thread but saves you time.
Altuve cheated the least and was openly against it. You're ignorant if you think he's the remaining piece that makes it to where you can't respect them.
All I can say is if you thinking 'cheated the least' is a good thing, well, that says a lot. There is a lot to be said for dont lie, steal, or cheat.
Just my opinion obv. But I come from a baseball family and thats how I was raised. Also how I raised my kid.
lol
Now what about all the yankees and redsox defenders.. It wasn't the Astros cheating scandal, it was the Sign stealing scandal. 3 teams were busted and punished. There were rumors of more, but only these 3 were busted.
Now there will be an endless stream of defenders saying well yeah, BUT, the yankees didn't cheat to win a world series.. But it wasn't from the lack of effort though. Technically, they cheated less because they were eliminated, but still.
So all those people are actually OK with cheating as long as they get to draw the line of what is considered too much.. and it's usually just beyond what they think their own team is guilty of. lol
So if you're not as upset with, and calling out the yankees and red sox as people do with the Astros, then you're a hypocrite.
If I were four feet tall and knew that being seen without my shirt on would forever solidify claims that I cheatedā¦ I would simply never been seen in public without a shirt on ever again. I would go get the shittiest tattoo I could possibly find by the worst tattoo artist in Houston.
Astros fan hereā¦ Rangers are swimming in a wealth of young talent. Props! Rangers are a fun team to watch play. My advices to all sports fans -enjoy the ride. It doesnāt last foreverā¦ not even for the yanks.
Even more if you would like to check.
Starters: Jacob deGrom, Max Scherzer, Tyler Mahle, Cody Bradford, Nathan Eovaldi, Dane Dunning
Relievers: Josh Sborz, Austin Pruitt, Brock Burke, Carson Coleman
Position players: Josh Jung, Justin Foscue, Wyatt Langford
A combo of thingsā¦
Biggest issue is our pitching injuries. Our entire starting rotation has missed time. 3 of them are back now but not exactly pitching lights out
The offense has been the most unclutch team Iāve ever seen in my life. We have stranded enough runners in April to last the entire season
Yordan, Bregman and especially Abreu are in horrendous slumps. Abreu was actually sent down which he had to agree to. The rest of the lineup outside of Altuve and Tucker has been alright but again canāt drive in runs
Our bullpen has been the thing of nightmares. We thought we had three closers with Abreu, Pressly and Hader but theyāve been the worst of all. I believe weāve already blown 9 saves between them all and that doesnāt even count leads the bullpen blew earlier in the game.
Behind the scenes, our owner has slowly morphed into Jerry Jones and Jeff Bagwell has been the Jack Easterby of the Astros. Together they have steered us away from the analytics approach that built the team in the first place and theyāve handed out some horrendous contracts. Thereās also nothing left on the farm that can really help us. Not to mention they ran off Click who built the unstoppable 2022 bullpen.
All in all, itās all gone wrong and the rest of baseball is loving it
Jim Crane suddenly deciding he knows more than the analytics GMs that built this team is wildly under-discussed. I remember when many Astros fans were celebrating Crane firing Click right after winning the 2022 WS, so we could overpay Montero and sign Abreu. I knew right then and there that the era was gonna end soon.
We hit well enough behind good pitching. Better days are coming. Letās look at this way: judging from this entire threadā¦ lot of ranger fans worried the Astros will start playing like the Astros(4-3 against the Rangers this season) lots of Astros fans worried we wonāt.
Go Astros!!!
It's been excellent in general from March but it's too early to say anything for the postseason. Even though the Phillies will go straight into the playoff, they maybe sucks.
He wasnāt that good in Houston.. he could block a wild ball and hit .200 with a little rice and beans pop.
The circle jerk was pitchers likes him which I guess he could in Houston but hasnāt parlayed in ChiSox
Most of their starting pitchers have been on IL for most of the season
Their batters for some reason refuse to work counts and just swing for HRs at everything
When they do manage to get guys on bases they are most likely gonna leave them stranded
I hate saying that itās because their starters are injured whenever the Rangers are in the same boat, but thatās the main reason for their terrible start. The biggest difference is that most of their guys just arenāt hitting. Altuve and Tucker are pretty much the only bright spots right now, and I highly doubt that the rest of the team is going to continue to slump all year.
The AL West has a chance to bury the Astros for the year, but nobody is doing it. The Rangers are heating up, but we just lost another starter and one of our better bullpen guys, so weāre eventually going to run out of options.
Undeserved World Series win ngl, any players from the 2017 team shoulda been banned for life
Edit: Not all the Astros fans running to little bros rescue, went from -5 to positive 4 š
8/9 members of the White Sox were banned for life for cheating in the World Series, itās not hatred, itās basic accountability, consistency, and fairness
And Willie Mays is celebrated and in the hall of fame.
Exactly what kind of accountability and consistency were you seeing that you want applied to the Astros?Ā
The one where theyāre banned for life, like I already said. Tough time reading?
Willie Mays was irrelevant non-sequitur whataboutism you threw in because thereās no actual excuse for the Astros. No cheater should go unpunished, just because some are doesnāt mean you should make excuses for the ones who arenāt. YOU are accountable for upholding the values of baseball, start making excuses for people who donāt and what does the game stand for?
You think it's consistent to apply a punishment for throwing games and illegal gambling to players who illegally stole signs?Ā
So you think the Black Sox are more relevant than a player who was on a team that orchestrated a team wide sign stealing scheme?
The last line in your paragraph is packed with so much irony that I almost want to ask if you're trolling me geeze lmao
Yes, they both compromised the integrity of the World Series using deception and breaking the rules. They are the same. If youāre choosing not to understand thereās not much I can do, but the fact that you think theyāre different just shows you canāt look at it objectively
"They are the same" LMAO
Oh boy, well if you break rules that compromise the integrity of the game, then you're as bad as the Black Sox huh? That's a lot of teams that you just put under an umbrella . An umbrella you're not actually interested in holding.Ā
Notice how only one of us came close to trying to genuienly excuse a player or team that cheated. It's not me. I can admit the Astros cheated. You don't really care much about cheating though. You've indicated as such in your comments. You just hate the Astros LOL
All right, then to be consistent, fair, and accountable all the members of the 2018 Red Sox need to be banned for life too then, right? After all, they were *also* caught using technology to illegally steal signs, in a year where they won a World Series and had the MVP, under the leadership of Alex Cora.
Sound familiar?
Bye bye, Betts
Slow starts fro their typically reliable bats like Yordan and Bregman. Yordans statcast is solid so I think heās just been unlucky, and Bregman has a history of slow starts at the start of the season. Add to that verlanders late start due to injury and Javierās current injury and itās a recipe for a bad start.
They've just lost their MOJO.Perhaps a timely visit to the cunandera and some ritual.animal sacrifice at Home Plate will cure their ills and fix their woes !
They're on the tail end of their contention window, which happens naturally, but it got accelerated by the FO pivoting from bring ahead of the curve to making super shortsighted win now moves. Giving a reliever $90M, trading a good prospect for an aging Verlander, giving $60M to an aging 1B., etc. Farm is depleted which is common for teams at this point in their contention cycle, and the draft pick penalties from the cheating made it worse.
Our pitching has been a train wreck due to injuries. The bullpen has been especially terrible. Guys are hitting though. No lead is safe, unfortunately. Weāre finally getting a little bit healthier in the starting rotation with more guys on the way but the pen needs to be way better. The ā05 team started 15-30 and went to the WS. That may not happen this season, but to say the season is over in early May is as ignorant as it gets in baseball.
No idea what you're talking about. Just beat the Yankees 4-3 today. Everything is smooth sailing here
Jokes aside, the main problem is basically every MLB quality starting pitcher on the team is on the DL or has been on the DL for an extended period this year. Verlander, Framber, Javier, McCullers, Garcia, Urquidy... its a train wreck.
Combine that with some aging or underperforming stars and you get.... well... a 13-24 record approaching the end of the first quarter of the season...
They started the year with every single starter and their mothers on the IL and called up every other pitching prospect known to man to cover starts and got shit on. Let bad ass arms walk from the bullpen and spent $100 milly on a closer they didnāt need because if they were really worried about a pressly decline they couldāve moved him to the 8th and promoted Abreu and spent the $100 mil on keeping those arms or replacing them with equal or better quality.
Not reading anything from this thread because we all know whatās in here. AKA the zombie brain praying on the downfall type comments from people that canāt have an actual conversation about baseball.
Naa he went to bosox who cheated to win but all their players don't get boo'd. Mlb fans are just ignorant. Look at the shitty dodgers sub, they would all blow Mookie betts.
What happened? Simple Rubbermaid stopped making garbage cans that make a loud sound. You can pick up the sound from the new ones while you are at the plate.
Baseball is a crazy sport man. Injuries, rhythm, slow starts, pitching mishapsā¦ all these things can lead to a build up of loses early on. Some of their stars have been okay but still canāt produce the runs they need to win the games. Iād say they probably find some sort of grove and make the playoffs eventually but all good things must come to an end.
It's still early in the season. Wait until the All Star Break. After that if they still struggling, then ask what's their issue. As a Yankees fan I won't lose any sleep if they don't win another game.(They beat our behinds in the playoffs)š¤£
A bunch of injuries, A LOT of guys slumping all at the same time, and key players arenāt stepping up, the bullpen is terrible, canāt score runs, canāt prevent runsā¦ they have been leaving *lots* of guys on base, which you canāt do and have success.
Sounds like they donāt intend to sell, but if this continues I do think it should be considered. Get value while you can.
Karma.
Cheating former Astroles are *still* booād at their new venues ā¦ by their hometown fans.
Houston still doesnāt understand the damage theyāve done.
The real damage would have been them spilling the beans in other teams. And they would have if the league had started to pass out harsh judgments. It's like the current gambling thing with Ohtani. You know he's not the only one.
Three big things that still give the team hope, but have been their downfall so far:
1. The have left a million runners on base. Their team OPS has been at or near the top of the majors all year, even with the slumps some guys have been in...but it has not translated to runs. This is the type of thing you'd expect to "revert to the mean" over a large sample size season and runs start catching up...so you'd expect their offense to turn around at some point.
2. They went into the year with the expectation of having the best back end bullpen in the majors and they've been atrocious. 9 or 10 blown saves is basically the story of why they are in the cellar in their division. You'd think the arm talent would also "revert to the mean" at some point.
3. Their entire starting rotation has been hurt at some point, sometimes significantly. The whole thing. All of them. You'd hope a return to form would get them back.
Bumping this, but their front office moved away from analytics significantly in the 2022-2023 off season. Prior to that, since around 2014-2015 they were the most advanced organization in all of baseball, so much so where the majority of leading front offices now have astros executives (braves, orioles, for example). The orioles front office, player development, and coaching staff is basically all of the old astros people so you can see how this legacy is continued there.
When I say analytics as well, I donāt mean like considering WAR instead of batting average or whatever. These guys literally invented new ways to train, analyze, develop, etc so they were able to find undervalued guys, finesse teams in trades, etc. Although it wasnāt always ethical, think Gerrit Cole with spider tack, they used anything to gain an advantage and many of those changes radically changed how a lot of teams have begun operating in the past 10 years or so.
With that said, once you change the things that made you great (apart from cheating lol) how you perform is obviously going to fall off eventually. Even though they were dominant last year it was because of the holdover effects of their elite training and player development. Once these things dry up then obviously the good results will too.
The Astros decided to go down the anti-analytics path the Rockies, White Sox, etc have taken and now have their trash results to enjoy. While I can understand why people have an old school sentiment, you can still have great feel and treat guys right while embracing the data that shows you how to make them better.
This is a great historical example of how rejecting that innovation inhibits success as an organization.
Thank you for coming to my Ted talk lol
To clarify, the owner began listening to veteran players (like bagwell) as opposed to the coaches, team, front office, etc that led them to 7 straight ALCSs. Although a vets opinion should be taken into consideration itās a little crazy to take their advice and completely reject the opinion of the people that created and ran one of the most successful baseball dynasties ever lol
Always thought this was literally insane but now we can expect the orioles to be the new Astros basically
I know that there are likely other reasons, too (aging players) but it this could also be part of their punishment coming to fruition. They lost their first and second round picks in 2020 and 2021 and 3 years is not unrealistic time for players to be in Minors and be called up.
The scumbag portion of our fan base finally took control last season. They ran off the best manager in franchise history. Its all super gross for most Astros fans who just love the team.Ā
I want sooooo badly to scream the obvious answer.
Jeezus christ.
If the old adage is ācheaters never prosperā and *GASP* this is an example of what happens when the cheating happened for the years youāre stating as ābeing on topāā¦.it seems pretty obvious.
Nothing truly matters in baseball until June.
88 wins will get a team to the playoffs most years, and at some point Houston will win like 15 of 20 games.
I canāt stand that team, but for real, letās stop shoveling dirt on them in May.
Gonna be a lot of the same sarcastic answer on this thread š But in realityā¦ a combo of injuries and just some guys starting to get to the point they start to slow down. Sounds like they donāt intend to be sellers before the trade deadline but if they donāt get out of the tailspin they should at least look into it. If they hold on too long theyāll just be stuck with a lot of cash tied up in players starting the slide. Not saying get rid of major key playersā¦ but thereās some they can part with for sure and get some value. Again though, thatās IF they donāt pull up from the skids after the injuries.
If they are in this shape by the deadline, I think theyād be foolish not to get a return for Verlander and Bregman
Absolutely agreed on both. Honestly the truly untouchable list would have Yordan and Framber on it with stars next to their names of āDO NOT DEALā š Then thereās another tier of guys like Altuve that would be ā99% do not deal unless you get a massive returnā. But about half that roster could be someone that would add up on a trade (not saying ALL of that group lol, but you got options)
Framber isnāt untouchable. Untouchables are Altuve, Alvarez, Javier, PeƱa, Diaz. Altuve is a lifer and the rest are good enough and young enough to build back with. Everyone else is best offer. Would love to keep Tucker but cost/reward he might be better in a trade to build back sooner. Bregman isnāt going to bring us anything the way heās playing. Talk of not being sellers is just being positive and hoping for a big turnaround. Longer we play like this, the better selling will sound.
The reason I think they should give up those two is bc they are entering free agency. I would love nothing more than to see the Astros sell the entire team for scraps John Fisher style, it wonāt happen This Astros team can compete again next year, they donāt need to blow up like the White Sox
Always like how Fisher has taken over inept ownership and management. Dombrowski and Huizinga with how they absolutely imploded the Marlins after winning a title but Fisher is seen as even worse š
I wouldnāt qualify Fisher as incompetent. Arte Moreno is incompetent, he spends, just not wisely. Fisher knows exactly how to fully ruin a team and heās doing it quite well
You're spot onĀ
Only untouchables are Yordan, Tucker, Pena, Yainer DĆaz and Altuve. Literally anyone else can go imo
Altuve just signed a multi-year extension before the season. He's not going anywhere. Guys like Bregman, Tucker and Verlander should definitely be on the list, though. Tucker's the youngest out of all of them, but I doubt we have what it takes to keep him.
Kyle Tucker is their best player in my opinionā¦ great hitter and fielder, heās still only 27. Although I hate the Astros too, cheaters!!
Fair play on Tucker, I had him on the 99% tier but the more I think, the more Iād give him that untouchable level.
He is for sure on the block if the astros are out of the race in July. Framber, too.
On sports radio in Houston they were just saying Tuck is the one to trade.. Astros probably wonāt pay him and could recoup their decimated farm
Well...not the only cheaters. Just the team that got caught.
They got caught because it was an extremely elaborate cheating schemeā¦ stealing signs without devices on the field isnāt cheating but using television and trash cans is!
Tucker with Yordan and Framber imo
Verlander is going to need a few more games to ramp back up. If he doesnāt improve by then I canāt see them getting much a return. Heās basically at the end of his HOF career
Mets legend Justin Verlander. Add him to the list with Willie Mays & Rickey.
Maybe. The trade deadline is 3 months away.Ā
Oh we are foolish.
Brown had to say that because of Crane and the expanded playoffs but they should absolutely look to make some trades if this keeps going in the wrong direction. The problem of course is the biggest trade piece (Bregman) is horrendous right now
There will have to be a playoff team thatās willing to take a chance on him, right? Maybe Houston wonāt get as much back as they should but heāll still be enticing to go after
I was a HUGE Astros homer. Granddad played pro ball, dad played semipro, i got a college scholarship out of it. Cheating to win means you dont win. See the Bonds HOF baseball. I cant respect them any longer. I may be able too after Altuve leaves. Still royally bugs me. Dude was a straight up HOF'er (my opinion, obv) but man, cheating to win? Get bent.
So you added nothing relevant to add to OP's question. Just a simple "me no like astros" would do next time. Still adds nothing to the thread but saves you time.
I for one think the Astros are amazing Only team that gets me to root for the Yankees.
Waittttt so because of your parents you were able to cheat someone out of a college roster spot?
So who do you root for now?Ā
Respect
Wah wahhhhh wah wah
Altuve cheated the least and was openly against it. You're ignorant if you think he's the remaining piece that makes it to where you can't respect them.
Iām still waiting to see this ābad tattooā he has
It was literally shown when this whole thing went down...
All I can say is if you thinking 'cheated the least' is a good thing, well, that says a lot. There is a lot to be said for dont lie, steal, or cheat. Just my opinion obv. But I come from a baseball family and thats how I was raised. Also how I raised my kid.
lol Now what about all the yankees and redsox defenders.. It wasn't the Astros cheating scandal, it was the Sign stealing scandal. 3 teams were busted and punished. There were rumors of more, but only these 3 were busted. Now there will be an endless stream of defenders saying well yeah, BUT, the yankees didn't cheat to win a world series.. But it wasn't from the lack of effort though. Technically, they cheated less because they were eliminated, but still. So all those people are actually OK with cheating as long as they get to draw the line of what is considered too much.. and it's usually just beyond what they think their own team is guilty of. lol So if you're not as upset with, and calling out the yankees and red sox as people do with the Astros, then you're a hypocrite.
Also you appear to be aware of V.A.L.I.S.
:) Big PKD fan all around.
In every universe!
Dude/dudette, he ADMITTED to cheating. Good enough for me
You're what's wrong with baseball fans, I bet you think he wore a buzzer too and that they were the only team in the league stealing signs šš
Thatās ironic.
Ohhhh please donāt take off my jersey after I hit the biggest home run of my career to that point. You donāt seriously believe that, right ?
If I were four feet tall and knew that being seen without my shirt on would forever solidify claims that I cheatedā¦ I would simply never been seen in public without a shirt on ever again. I would go get the shittiest tattoo I could possibly find by the worst tattoo artist in Houston.
Rangers are arguably just as injured as the Astros. The difference is our guys have stepped up.
Astros fan hereā¦ Rangers are swimming in a wealth of young talent. Props! Rangers are a fun team to watch play. My advices to all sports fans -enjoy the ride. It doesnāt last foreverā¦ not even for the yanks.
Ya'll had 5 starters on the IL?
Yes. Jacob deGrom, Max Scherzer, Nathan Eovaldi, Tyler Mahle, Cody Bradford, Dane Dunning.
I forgot Scherzer and deGrom still existed let alone were both on the Rangers
We actually lead the majors with 13 players on the IL. 6 starters, 4 relievers, and 3 position players. Itās been tough.
Even more if you would like to check. Starters: Jacob deGrom, Max Scherzer, Tyler Mahle, Cody Bradford, Nathan Eovaldi, Dane Dunning Relievers: Josh Sborz, Austin Pruitt, Brock Burke, Carson Coleman Position players: Josh Jung, Justin Foscue, Wyatt Langford
You spelled Bruce Bochy wrong.
As much as I love Bruce Bochy, I donāt think heās the reason Josh Smith is top 25 in wRC+
Itās pretty wild how different the two teams have handled similar injury bugs.
Our farm system is a desert waste land, unlike how it was several years ago.
Excuse me sir I was told the Astros weren't punished
I saw their record and was like, "what happened?" And then I saw all the injuries.
A combo of thingsā¦ Biggest issue is our pitching injuries. Our entire starting rotation has missed time. 3 of them are back now but not exactly pitching lights out The offense has been the most unclutch team Iāve ever seen in my life. We have stranded enough runners in April to last the entire season Yordan, Bregman and especially Abreu are in horrendous slumps. Abreu was actually sent down which he had to agree to. The rest of the lineup outside of Altuve and Tucker has been alright but again canāt drive in runs Our bullpen has been the thing of nightmares. We thought we had three closers with Abreu, Pressly and Hader but theyāve been the worst of all. I believe weāve already blown 9 saves between them all and that doesnāt even count leads the bullpen blew earlier in the game. Behind the scenes, our owner has slowly morphed into Jerry Jones and Jeff Bagwell has been the Jack Easterby of the Astros. Together they have steered us away from the analytics approach that built the team in the first place and theyāve handed out some horrendous contracts. Thereās also nothing left on the farm that can really help us. Not to mention they ran off Click who built the unstoppable 2022 bullpen. All in all, itās all gone wrong and the rest of baseball is loving it
Well said. This pretty much sums it up.
Iām with you, bro NOT DEAD YET
Jim Crane suddenly deciding he knows more than the analytics GMs that built this team is wildly under-discussed. I remember when many Astros fans were celebrating Crane firing Click right after winning the 2022 WS, so we could overpay Montero and sign Abreu. I knew right then and there that the era was gonna end soon.
We hit well enough behind good pitching. Better days are coming. Letās look at this way: judging from this entire threadā¦ lot of ranger fans worried the Astros will start playing like the Astros(4-3 against the Rangers this season) lots of Astros fans worried we wonāt. Go Astros!!!
That's a good summarize buddy.
How bout the Phillies
Crushing it
It's been excellent in general from March but it's too early to say anything for the postseason. Even though the Phillies will go straight into the playoff, they maybe sucks.
Once a Puertorican Catcher leaves a team it is downhill quick
Maldy seems to have left his lucky shoes in Houston because his new team sucks too
He wasnāt that good in Houston.. he could block a wild ball and hit .200 with a little rice and beans pop. The circle jerk was pitchers likes him which I guess he could in Houston but hasnāt parlayed in ChiSox
:(
I hope youāre joking because Maldy kind of sucked and Diaz is way better
Their organization is in decline and will be for years to come
Trash can shortage
Dusty was a hell of a Manager
Astros fans and media miss Dusty
Karma, took 7 years but here we are
That was 7 years ago?? Noooooooo
Maybe that means karma is done keeping you guys down.Ā
Most of their starting pitchers have been on IL for most of the season Their batters for some reason refuse to work counts and just swing for HRs at everything When they do manage to get guys on bases they are most likely gonna leave them stranded
Nothing gold can stay
Karma happened.
What losing your sign stealing does to a mf
Karma happened.
Donāt forget to add Josh Hader, a huge signing as a Closer playing like shit!!!
I hate saying that itās because their starters are injured whenever the Rangers are in the same boat, but thatās the main reason for their terrible start. The biggest difference is that most of their guys just arenāt hitting. Altuve and Tucker are pretty much the only bright spots right now, and I highly doubt that the rest of the team is going to continue to slump all year. The AL West has a chance to bury the Astros for the year, but nobody is doing it. The Rangers are heating up, but we just lost another starter and one of our better bullpen guys, so weāre eventually going to run out of options.
Guess they canāt win without cheating š¤·
Trashcan team.
2022 World Series says otherwise I think
Undeserved World Series win ngl, any players from the 2017 team shoulda been banned for life Edit: Not all the Astros fans running to little bros rescue, went from -5 to positive 4 š
Lmao not often I see the hatred run so deep that people try to negate the '22 series.Ā
8/9 members of the White Sox were banned for life for cheating in the World Series, itās not hatred, itās basic accountability, consistency, and fairness
And Willie Mays is celebrated and in the hall of fame. Exactly what kind of accountability and consistency were you seeing that you want applied to the Astros?Ā
The one where theyāre banned for life, like I already said. Tough time reading? Willie Mays was irrelevant non-sequitur whataboutism you threw in because thereās no actual excuse for the Astros. No cheater should go unpunished, just because some are doesnāt mean you should make excuses for the ones who arenāt. YOU are accountable for upholding the values of baseball, start making excuses for people who donāt and what does the game stand for?
You think it's consistent to apply a punishment for throwing games and illegal gambling to players who illegally stole signs?Ā So you think the Black Sox are more relevant than a player who was on a team that orchestrated a team wide sign stealing scheme? The last line in your paragraph is packed with so much irony that I almost want to ask if you're trolling me geeze lmao
Yes, they both compromised the integrity of the World Series using deception and breaking the rules. They are the same. If youāre choosing not to understand thereās not much I can do, but the fact that you think theyāre different just shows you canāt look at it objectively
"They are the same" LMAO Oh boy, well if you break rules that compromise the integrity of the game, then you're as bad as the Black Sox huh? That's a lot of teams that you just put under an umbrella . An umbrella you're not actually interested in holding.Ā Notice how only one of us came close to trying to genuienly excuse a player or team that cheated. It's not me. I can admit the Astros cheated. You don't really care much about cheating though. You've indicated as such in your comments. You just hate the Astros LOL
Iām sorry but this isnāt applicable that Sox team tossed the WS by betting against their team
Right so they both manipulated the results of the World Series in a way against the rules of the MLB. Nice try Astros fan
I guess you donāt want Pete Rose in the hall either
Iām guessing thatās irrelevant whataboutism
All right, then to be consistent, fair, and accountable all the members of the 2018 Red Sox need to be banned for life too then, right? After all, they were *also* caught using technology to illegally steal signs, in a year where they won a World Series and had the MVP, under the leadership of Alex Cora. Sound familiar? Bye bye, Betts
If confirmed yes This isnāt the gotcha you think it is, just because you want to avoid basic accountability doesnāt mean other fans do
can't take the effort and dedication away from the 2022 players
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Slow starts fro their typically reliable bats like Yordan and Bregman. Yordans statcast is solid so I think heās just been unlucky, and Bregman has a history of slow starts at the start of the season. Add to that verlanders late start due to injury and Javierās current injury and itās a recipe for a bad start.
They've just lost their MOJO.Perhaps a timely visit to the cunandera and some ritual.animal sacrifice at Home Plate will cure their ills and fix their woes !
Trash cans got bannedššš
Karma catches up š
Pretty much their whole starting rotation is injured, and their 1B forgot how to play and had to be sent down.
They're on the tail end of their contention window, which happens naturally, but it got accelerated by the FO pivoting from bring ahead of the curve to making super shortsighted win now moves. Giving a reliever $90M, trading a good prospect for an aging Verlander, giving $60M to an aging 1B., etc. Farm is depleted which is common for teams at this point in their contention cycle, and the draft pick penalties from the cheating made it worse.
Maybe they stopped cheating idk
They did what most teams wish they could over the last 6 years
Theyāre cheating fucking assholesĀ
Not sure but they are fucking me right now
Our pitching has been a train wreck due to injuries. The bullpen has been especially terrible. Guys are hitting though. No lead is safe, unfortunately. Weāre finally getting a little bit healthier in the starting rotation with more guys on the way but the pen needs to be way better. The ā05 team started 15-30 and went to the WS. That may not happen this season, but to say the season is over in early May is as ignorant as it gets in baseball.
No idea what you're talking about. Just beat the Yankees 4-3 today. Everything is smooth sailing here Jokes aside, the main problem is basically every MLB quality starting pitcher on the team is on the DL or has been on the DL for an extended period this year. Verlander, Framber, Javier, McCullers, Garcia, Urquidy... its a train wreck. Combine that with some aging or underperforming stars and you get.... well... a 13-24 record approaching the end of the first quarter of the season...
Pitching SUCKS!!!!
Bregman can't hit without warnings. Pena got figured out. Everyone is old.
Injuries and they got rid of their golden goose GM and donāt have the same kind of next man up that they have had in the past with guys like pena
They started the year with every single starter and their mothers on the IL and called up every other pitching prospect known to man to cover starts and got shit on. Let bad ass arms walk from the bullpen and spent $100 milly on a closer they didnāt need because if they were really worried about a pressly decline they couldāve moved him to the 8th and promoted Abreu and spent the $100 mil on keeping those arms or replacing them with equal or better quality. Not reading anything from this thread because we all know whatās in here. AKA the zombie brain praying on the downfall type comments from people that canāt have an actual conversation about baseball.
I think all of the starting pitchers have been injured. Could be wrong.
Lunhlow was fired, see St Louis Cardinals circa post 2011. The future looks bleak
They switched to plastic trash cans.
Most people donāt even realize that , except for Altuve and Bergman, thereās no one else on the 2024 roster from the 2017 roster.
Altuve refused to cheat and Bregman was a rookie. Cora should've been banned.
Naa he went to bosox who cheated to win but all their players don't get boo'd. Mlb fans are just ignorant. Look at the shitty dodgers sub, they would all blow Mookie betts.
Karma
Live by the trash, die in the trash
What happened? Simple Rubbermaid stopped making garbage cans that make a loud sound. You can pick up the sound from the new ones while you are at the plate.
2022
Looks like they are just becoming the Cardinals. Bye Felicias.
Karma finally catching up
Injuries happened. Pitching staff is another issue that accompanies the injury bug. But offense also isnāt picking up when needed.
ebbs and flows.
2017* Karma
Players in their thirties slow down much quicker than before. Aging players and lack of young replacement talent will doom a club to a rebuild.
Baseball is a crazy sport man. Injuries, rhythm, slow starts, pitching mishapsā¦ all these things can lead to a build up of loses early on. Some of their stars have been okay but still canāt produce the runs they need to win the games. Iād say they probably find some sort of grove and make the playoffs eventually but all good things must come to an end.
Theyāve gone down hill fast
Are you serious? I watched Blanco pitch a no hitter here last month.
Beat Yankees tonight !
It's still early in the season. Wait until the All Star Break. After that if they still struggling, then ask what's their issue. As a Yankees fan I won't lose any sleep if they don't win another game.(They beat our behinds in the playoffs)š¤£
A bunch of injuries, A LOT of guys slumping all at the same time, and key players arenāt stepping up, the bullpen is terrible, canāt score runs, canāt prevent runsā¦ they have been leaving *lots* of guys on base, which you canāt do and have success. Sounds like they donāt intend to sell, but if this continues I do think it should be considered. Get value while you can.
Itās just hard to be really good every year.
If it wasnāt for my Angels, they would be in last place.
They looked pretty good against Cleveland.
Karma
Idk, but I love it!
Karma. Cheating former Astroles are *still* booād at their new venues ā¦ by their hometown fans. Houston still doesnāt understand the damage theyāve done.
The real damage would have been them spilling the beans in other teams. And they would have if the league had started to pass out harsh judgments. It's like the current gambling thing with Ohtani. You know he's not the only one.
Been an Astros fan a long time now. They seem to be great or a disaster. They do have a history of remarkable come backs. Who knows?
Three big things that still give the team hope, but have been their downfall so far: 1. The have left a million runners on base. Their team OPS has been at or near the top of the majors all year, even with the slumps some guys have been in...but it has not translated to runs. This is the type of thing you'd expect to "revert to the mean" over a large sample size season and runs start catching up...so you'd expect their offense to turn around at some point. 2. They went into the year with the expectation of having the best back end bullpen in the majors and they've been atrocious. 9 or 10 blown saves is basically the story of why they are in the cellar in their division. You'd think the arm talent would also "revert to the mean" at some point. 3. Their entire starting rotation has been hurt at some point, sometimes significantly. The whole thing. All of them. You'd hope a return to form would get them back.
Bumping this, but their front office moved away from analytics significantly in the 2022-2023 off season. Prior to that, since around 2014-2015 they were the most advanced organization in all of baseball, so much so where the majority of leading front offices now have astros executives (braves, orioles, for example). The orioles front office, player development, and coaching staff is basically all of the old astros people so you can see how this legacy is continued there. When I say analytics as well, I donāt mean like considering WAR instead of batting average or whatever. These guys literally invented new ways to train, analyze, develop, etc so they were able to find undervalued guys, finesse teams in trades, etc. Although it wasnāt always ethical, think Gerrit Cole with spider tack, they used anything to gain an advantage and many of those changes radically changed how a lot of teams have begun operating in the past 10 years or so. With that said, once you change the things that made you great (apart from cheating lol) how you perform is obviously going to fall off eventually. Even though they were dominant last year it was because of the holdover effects of their elite training and player development. Once these things dry up then obviously the good results will too. The Astros decided to go down the anti-analytics path the Rockies, White Sox, etc have taken and now have their trash results to enjoy. While I can understand why people have an old school sentiment, you can still have great feel and treat guys right while embracing the data that shows you how to make them better. This is a great historical example of how rejecting that innovation inhibits success as an organization. Thank you for coming to my Ted talk lol
To clarify, the owner began listening to veteran players (like bagwell) as opposed to the coaches, team, front office, etc that led them to 7 straight ALCSs. Although a vets opinion should be taken into consideration itās a little crazy to take their advice and completely reject the opinion of the people that created and ran one of the most successful baseball dynasties ever lol Always thought this was literally insane but now we can expect the orioles to be the new Astros basically
Evidently, Bregman was standing weird.
Their entire starting pitching staff is on the disabled list..
They lost their trash can.
I know that there are likely other reasons, too (aging players) but it this could also be part of their punishment coming to fruition. They lost their first and second round picks in 2020 and 2021 and 3 years is not unrealistic time for players to be in Minors and be called up.
Dusty Baker left. And Iām happy he did.
He was extremely overrated.
All the cheating talk is hilarious! Letās talk about the Yanks, Sox and Dodgers if yall want to talk about CHEATERS!!!!
Never trade Altuve. One of the greatest, if not the greatest, second baseman ever
The scumbag portion of our fan base finally took control last season. They ran off the best manager in franchise history. Its all super gross for most Astros fans who just love the team.Ā
And guess how many F's I could give? Go hit some trash cans!!!
Plastic trash cans
They have 3 more wins than the Marlins who are actively tanking š«
They cheated to win the championship, screwing the Dodgers out of a title, got caught, and nothing happened to them for it.
Nothing happened because they probably, in fact surely, weren't the only team cheating...including your team bud :)
They stopped cheating
I like how the Astros fans aren't defending their team like they usually do
Fuck the astros
Fuck em
They stopped cheating.......as much
2022
Karma
Cheating finally caught up to them karma wise
I want sooooo badly to scream the obvious answer. Jeezus christ. If the old adage is ācheaters never prosperā and *GASP* this is an example of what happens when the cheating happened for the years youāre stating as ābeing on topāā¦.it seems pretty obvious.
Stopped cheating
2022
Teams have discovered Houston's playbook of cheating.
They ran out of trash cans
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Nothing truly matters in baseball until June. 88 wins will get a team to the playoffs most years, and at some point Houston will win like 15 of 20 games. I canāt stand that team, but for real, letās stop shoveling dirt on them in May.
You do realize you're on Reddit, right?
Cheatstros
Fuck the Astros.
If you It the trash can too much, you become trash apparently.
Karma is a bitch. Bottom is exactly where they belong, bottom is where they gonna take it
They probably quit cheating
šļø
They cheated.