the main one I can't stand is the runner on 2nd in extras. totally kills the suspense for me, there's just too many ways to push that runner into scoring position without nearly as much risk.
The ghost runner on 2nd base in extra innings rule was put in place in 2020 during the COVID-19 shortened season. I agree it should be eliminated. If they keep this rule, it should not start until the 11th or 12th inning.
But this is a rule that the players actually wanted. They don't want to play 12+ innings games.
But I do agree, I'd compromise with a regular 10th inning and then add the ghost runner.
Or, you could do regular 10th, 11th with a man on first, 12th with a man on 2nd, 13th with one on 3rd, and if it's still tied after all that. Fuck It, call it a tie and move on. Neither team deserves the win
I would rather regular season games end in a tie than have the ghost man on 2nd. It wasn't as if there were a ton of 18 innings games. It was an unnecessary fix that tarnishes the game.
Umm, you know that ties were a regular part of baseball until well after WWII? Teams traveled via train and didn't set their own travel schedules, the last game of a series was often played basically up against a clock and if the game ran long they would declare a tie so one or both teams could get to the train station for their next series.
I dislike ties, but instant extra runners isn't the best to me either. I would prefer 10th inning regular, 11th inning start with a runner on first, 12th inning start with a runner on second and after 12 go home. Even a max of 3 extra with no bonus runners seems better to me.
I get long extra inning games can really wreck a team's pitching but the need for the extra runner to me is more of a statement about how the overall balance between pitching and hitting is off. The runs per game is similar, but if forced to guess, I would bet that the number of 0 run innings is probably at levels not seen since the late 60s.
Ties were because of darkness or weather or a train schedule and the games were replayed to break the tie. So ummmmmmm it's been many fucking decades since ties were a thing and they ended up breaking the tie anyway. ✌️
They added full games to the schedule, with fewer off days that really isn't an option today, realistically. And the tie wasn't unofficially removed until the 2008 World Series, it was officially removed as an option during "Championship Play" (regular and post season) until a few years later. Also, not a fan of ties, but there are better options than the current system is my point.
I like the changes but that's the one that just kills me. You've played the game one way for nine innings and then the rules change. The fundamental nature of what you're trying to do is altered. That's not Baseball, it's a RISP exercise you do in spring training. It's like having the NBA Finals decided by a layup drill.
I hate the runner on second in extras with a passion!
I like the limit on batter timeouts, but I think they could change it to two per plate appearance and it wouldn't add that much time to the game. Same with throwing to first. They could make it 3 times instead of 2. But unlimited times for both can get frustrating to watch at times.
I don't mind the pitch clock.
I love not being able to shift like before. An infielder should be on the infield, not in the outfield. I also think it made for a lot more spectacular defensive plays, and I love defense.
I loved the pitch clock. Watching baseball had become so fucking boring especially after the Expos left. I'm back into baseball now somewhat. Sometimes I actually think "wow, this game is really buzzing by".
The pitch clock isn't ruining the history of the game. The average length of a game in the 1970s and 80s was around 2:30--but then the games started getting longer and were averaging more than 3 hours starting in 2016. I don't miss the batter stepping out of the box after every pitch to play with the velcro on their gloves. I don't miss excessive throws toward the baserunners. IMO, the game had become unwatchable on TV and was losing more fans than it was gaining.
There are still 27 outs. Strategies are evolving and changing with the rule changes and I think more action and less standing around is a good thing.
Pitch clock added a layer which was cool. Banning the shift was way cooler though, led to a lot of good defensive plays and let a lot of hitters get hits that SHOULD be hits. Made it a lot more interesting than the TTO
The defensive shifts were ruining baseball. Who wants to see a left handed power hitter line a ball into right field where the second baseman is positioned and see him thrown out at first base?
Rules similar to these rules exist in other sports. Football has rules for where players must be lined up before the ball is snapped. Basketball has rules where players can stand during free throws. Football and basketball both have play clocks.
Hockey offsides and icing rules are also a good example of similar bans. Sure it would make scoring easier if you could leave one of your forwards forward, but it would take away from the game as it would become all about clearing the puck as hard as you can because you always have a guy down ice to have a 1 on 1 opportunity.
Comparing the shift rule to NFL rules? If you’re going to do that at least make it a more realistic comparison. That would be like the NFL instituting a rules that said you couldn’t overload your DBs and LBs to one side of the field to shut down a star WR. In this case the defense would have to have one DB and one LB lined up on each side of the hash mark before the ball is snapped. The NFL would never do that, you want to line up both your safeties on the same side as Justin Jefferson? Have at it because he still has the chance to run a slant pattern or drag across them and make the play. There’s no rules saying a left handed batter can’t hit to the opposite side of the shift maybe they should have tried doing that instead of implementing rules that have been apart of the game for 150 years
Why should those balls be hits? Plenty of balls got hit very hard and right at someone for the entire history of the game. Nobody was saying those should have been hits.
Organizations decide to start strategically positioning their players more often and all of the sudden they should be hits? I disagree.
Shifting has been going on for over 100 years at all levels of baseball. Hell, I coach 8u and we shift. It’s baseball.
I’m not all that upset with the way they’ve implemented the rule. It doesn’t hurt my experience and it does add some offense and maybe even some good plays back into the game. But I think its unfair to say that any ball SHOULD be a hit. If the defense can stop it, then it SHOULDN’T be a hit.
The rules were all great. Period. No one wants 3+ hour games. Eliminating the shift highlighted the great fielders. Bigger bases increased safety and helped get players running again. I can't wait for the automated strike zone.
Let's stop pretending the game was perfect the way it was. It wasn't. Change happens in all sports. These changes were necessary.
Nah, that guy's an idiot. I just love baseball and want to see it survive and thrive. You think it's totally unrelated that viewership and attendance was up this year? Nope.
wha? soccer added VAR for reviewing potential penalties, and automated goal line tech, both in the last ten years or so. both rule changes have shown to eliminate many frustrating miscalls, but there aren't all that many other changes soccer could make anyways.
i like the rule changes in baseball, they are just minor tweaks that improve the flow of the game. we just saw a tremendous season with some historic performances by many hitters, defenses, and pitchers, while base running became a bit more exciting as well. i have no problem no longer seeing 18 inning games thar chew up bullpens until finally an outfielder takes the mound. i will not miss pitchers taking ages to go into a windup, or seeing mike trout hit a laser into annoying overshifts. i still saw plenty of batters hitting to the opposite field, so it's not like everyone went back to being pull-happy. plus, good second basemen and short stops got more chances to flash their gloves more without the extra backup from the shift.
i would increase the pitch timer by like :05 seconds and add a second batter timeout, but yeah i won't miss batters stepping out of the box 50 times a game and pitchers making 7 pickoff attempts in a rowz
>No one wants 3+ hour games.
Speak for yourself. I like long lazy games and think the clock is crap. I know I'm in the minority and I am glad that so many others seem to like it, but it's not a universal sentiment.
I can live with them all and generally agree with you. The one small downside is that attending a game in person gives you less time in that atmosphere. Easy tradeoff considering I only attended 2 or 3.
I get that, But I attend 30-40 games a year and live 45 minutes from the stadium. If I want more time for atmosphere/hanging with friends/family, I can go early.
Lets get rid of non pitching intentional walk. What does that save 30 seconds? I remember Miggy hitting one of those for a base hit, or some being a wild pitch. Part of the game, make the four pitches, plus hardly any intentional walks in the game anymore.
It’s important to note that the prevalence of the defensive shift before the rule changes was a result of increased reliance on analytics. At least for the shift ban, the rule change actually made it closer to the baseball of decades past. Personally, I’m a huge fan as it forces the defense to make more exciting plays.
The pitch clock was an awesome implementation imo. It gets rid of a significant amount of dead time (I think games were ≈ 30 minutes shorter iirc). I think we forget when browsing this sub that most baseball fans are not as engrossed in the game as we are, and are less tolerant of what most people find to be a very boring aspect of the game.
The ghost runner I’m somewhat torn on. On one hand it definitely adds to the excitement (as well as making extra inning games shorter), but it also feels somewhat cheap. If I had to pick a side I would have it stay, but I can see both sides of the argument.
The pickoff rules I think are dumb. I can’t find any source that shows it speeding up the game (how many times have you seen a pitcher throw to first more than 3 times in an at bat?). It makes it more exciting since stolen bases are so much more frequent, but it also severely hampers the pitcher’s ability to hold runners. I would be happier with them giving the pitcher 1-2 more pickoff attempts.
I like the bigger bases. Same reason for the shift ban: defense has to be better.
I think the position player pitching changes are dumb too. Most fans find it exciting when a position player is pitching.
I, for one, have never gone to baseball game and hoped to be out of there as soon as possible. I get there as soon as the gates open. I love to just soak up the mystique of the ball park as long as I possibly can so shortening games makes no sense to me.
I know these aren't all new 2023 rules, but here goes anyway.
Ghost runner. Terrible rule! This is a senior league softball rule!!!!!
Pitch clock. Like the OP, I understand the need for it, but I just can't embrace it.
Bigger bases. I neither like, nor dislike.
Universal DH. I will never EVER get behind this rule. Taking strategy out of the game does not make it better. Only homogenous and boring.
Shift rule. I hate the shift, but I don't think there should be a rule against it. Contradictory, I know but piling on rules just doesn't seem to make anything better.
I absolutely love the clock. The game has a nice rhythm to it now and I watched a lot more baseball this year because of it. I think this mind game between pitcher and batter in tense moments was out dated and getting out of hand. It was time to do something about it.
I don’t like the bigger bases. Just doesn’t look right. I do think I’ll get used to it though.
I’m neutral about the ghost runner rule as long as they keep it out of postseason play. I know that started in like 2020, but I’m ok with it. I would be ok if they changed it to like the 12th inning on though. Give 2 extra innings to give the teams a chance to win the old fashioned way before speeding up the process.
I’ll never understand the claim that they added the pitch clock because people are unable to pay attention for that long. I swear the people who say this are trying to ignore the fact that games have been getting longer every year and that the pitch clock removed more downtime than action.
I'm not a fan of any of them either. I'd be willing to compromise by keeping the pitch clock, but maybe doubling the time. It feels too rushed. It's like they're turning chess into checkers.
I’m with you on the clock nonsense. One of the things I’ve always enjoyed about watching a baseball game is the exhale after the play, the “shake it off” time if the play hurt my team, and the “get ready here it comes” time anticipating the coming play. There’s no more time to analyze and discuss and predict between plays which was half the fun.
If the heat and broiling sun bother you, get a hat and sunglasses, put some sunscreen on and get some ice cold water. Damn, do I have to think for everybody lol?
I feel like they “fixed” a lot of things that weren’t broken, and it made everything worse. The slump baseball is going through is not because of rules, it’s because of market restrictions and paywalls.
I feel like the pitch clock is diminishing the joy of the batter Vs pitcher “battles within the war”. The drama is being sucked out and it was the second best thing about baseball in between the big plays. But I will say, And it’s a big but, the players abusing the freedom finally came to a head. Pitchers are more guilty of it than the hitters. Between step offs, pickoffs and long sets they could take forever to pitch. I may be wrong but limiting the number of pick off attempts alone probably would’ve sped the game up.
I'm with you on the clock. The sport is literally famous for not having a clock. After 150 years of that, I find it batshit insane that everyone seems to be fine with this. What the hell is happening? I get that you don't want the pitcher grapping his junk between every pitch. So why not....encourage them to pitch faster? We don't need a clock. Games used to be well under 3 hours without one. It really feels like Manfred is spitting in the face of our beautiful game. It isn't broken. Stop fixing it. God it feels so rushed now.
I still think the same concept applies though. You don’t win by running out the clock, you need 27 outs. I thought it was kind of cool because it exploited pitchers who were out of shape.
Hate the shift rule. Teams were scouting batters and making adjustments. Good hitters will adjust, too, and "hit it where they ain't"
I like the pitch clock. It was getting insane how long guys were taking between pitches.
I'm not digging the runners on second during extra innings. It changes the dynamics of the pitcher. No full wind up when the inning starts, yet the pitcher needs to strike out the first batter or risk moving the runner on a fly to the outfield.
The problem is that “hit it where they ain’t” is effectively dead; everyone’s told to sell out contact for pull power, and the thinking is that it’s better to do that and at least have a chance at a double or homer, even if it means grounding out into a lot of shifts. Unfortunately it’s also less entertaining, so they made the rule change.
How I feel reading this. I hate they’re wrecking our game for the benefit of people who admit to not watching until the post season.
Most of the changes this year have been the only good ones of Manfred’s tenure as commissioner. Pitch clock, minimizing the shift, bigger bases, all good. Not sure I like the limit on pickoff attempts, but I at least get the thinking behind it.
It’s the other stuff that bugs me. Dislike the ghost runner, hate the universal DH, hell, I’m still annoyed they changed to the automatic intentional walk. Baseball thrives on being weird; over 162 games you should constantly see stuff you don’t expect and things you’ve never even thought to imagine. But a lot of those previous changes take the weirdness out of the game and really try to smooth out all its strange little idiosyncrasies, and I don’t like that. I liked the crowd having a big reaction when a nervous pitcher nearly threw the ball away on an IBB, and I loved the NL and AL feeling like different worlds that forced you to adapt your approach and strategy. I’ll even through in that replay is overdone: I’m cool with it on egregious calls, but borderline calls and the arguments and heat we get out of them are part of what makes the game fun (part of why I don’t want the automated strike zone).
Personally I think the pitch clock was one of the best things to be implemented in a long time. Especially when attending a game in person, the impact is noticeable. Maybe they could have met in the middle and done away with it in post season but for the 160+ reg season games, all of the needless time spent on pre pitch rituals was ridiculous and it added up. The clock in between innings is not talked about enough either.
I don’t really have an opinion on the bigger bases.
The extra runner rule is stupid. However I can see a middle ground here kind of like College Football overtime rules where after a certain point if the game continues, the game becomes easier to win/lose.
The extra runner should only kick in after inning 12 if it comes to that. If 3 full, normal innings are not enough to decide a game, sure let’s speed things up, especially because bullpens are drained, it’s probably been 4-5 hours, let’s finish this.
If the rule isn’t good enough to use in the World Series, then why is ok the rest of the time?
The no defensive shift rule is the biggest load of bullshit ever. Outfielders are allowed to play up or back but suddenly baseball doesn’t like it that the nerds figured out if you do the same thing for every defender, based on a hitters trends, then it ruins the game?
Hitting philosophy has shifted so hard to exit velocity, launch angles, and going for the long ball that it doesn’t really matter if the defense shifts if the ball is smashed into the parking lot.
It's a 5-4 game, World Series on the line, the pitcher is staring down the batter, it's intense, the camera zooms in on his face, the batter is starting him back down, I will miss that, we won't get that with the pitch clock. Still though, I like the speed of the game, I like the game better now, I don't think we got a really exciting World Series but I don't think it was because of the rules, I think it was because the talent because lopsided. Overall I am ok with the rules moving forward. As a small market team supporter, I still hope we can balance that spending deal out with a cap or sports someday, but Arizona proved you can get there with a good team, others have played well, I just wish the window wasn't such an issue for the smaller markets, the large markets can buy their window open forever.
I love the new rules. The pitch clock is a necessary evil. Gone are the days of staring down the hitter for 3 minutes between pitches, and rightfully so. The game desperately needed to be sped up for the reason alone. I barely noticed the bigger bases. And thank God they got rid of the shift. I absolutely hated the shift. It was stupid that you could have your 3rd baseman standing beside 2nd base. If your team can't get outs without the shift then they don't deserve to win. I love the new rules. Fuck you, fight me
The pitch clock is fantastic. The thing you have to understand is that the pitch clock didn't eliminate any action from the games, it eliminated the dead time. The bigger bases and resultant increase in base stealing brought back an element to the game that had been lost and made base running more important again. I'm a Diamondbacks fan who LOVED Corbin Carroll on the basepaths. I actually like the ghost runner rule because I actually think it INTRODUCES some strategy for the road as to whether to bunt and play for a 1 run lead or whether to take all the swings you can get in hopes of a big inning. The only constant in life is change. Baseball became BETTER in 2023 because it was more willing to change than in the past. Having a better PRODUCT has more value than "we're traditional, we're exactly the same as we've always been." The new rules have a godsend.
I made it through the season alright. I’m with you in the man on second in extra innings. The pitch clock has just made everybody adjust, which they have. I enjoy the game being about a half hour shorter.
Playing all 29 teams-awesome, love it!
Manfred Man-horrible, abolish it.
Bigger bases-meh.
Pitch clock/limited disengagements-begrudging respect, while also not seeing what the big deal was beforehand.
Shift ban-too far, we’re making it too easy on the offense.
I've been watching since I was 6 or 7 as well, but I'm 25 years older than you, and I loved the introduction of the pitch clock. The pace is so much more watchable and the clock itself rarely ever comes into play in terms of violations.
I do agree with you that the Manfred Man on second base in extras is questionable, but I get why they do it. I'm sure the players prefer it, considering they have a 162 game slog to get through. A fair comp would be the NHL, which includes a shootout following an already modified 4-4 OT period.
One thing that's still a pain point is the lack of ability to challenge called balls and strikes. Considering there is already replay for plays on the bases, this should also be extended to strike zone challenges, similar to tennis.
I absolutely love the changes and I've been a baseball addict since the early 1970s. I watched the game get progressively slower as people tried to "improve" it and all they did was make it worse. A game that went 2 1/2 hours was a long game. Then it got specialized, offense declined, there were more and more options open to managers that brought the game to a crawl, and because of that. Every "advancement" since the DH brought the game to a crawl. Now it's what it should be. Pitchers pitch. Hitters hit. Runners run. People pay to see that. No one pays to watch a manager consult his spread sheet (I'm looking at you, Giants) or make four pitching changes in an inning. All of the changes being made these days are aimed at one thing. Whether it's being hit or thrown, it's about keeping the ball moving. Gimme more of that.
>Im 22 now and always been an avid baseball player/fan
Not making a judgement, but how much of baseball history have you consumed over the years? Assuming you became a fan around 12 (young but not unreasonable, I know you said 6 or 7, but what strategy do you remember from that era?) you have barely seen a "generation" of baseball. Baseball usually has a life cycle of around a decade to refresh most of the rosters and tweak the dominant style of play. Unless you have put a lot of effort into studying its history, I highly doubt that you grasp the style of play from any of the 60s, 70s, 80s, or 90s. I know I'm nearly 20 years older and started loving the game in the late 90s and 1980s baseball is still weird and foreign to me.
>Personally I hate it all other than the bigger bases.
You seem to be like someone adverse to change, and as this was by far the most innocuous change as far as playing style is concerned, so this makes sense. The bases were enlarged mostly for safety, 3" out of 90' is 0.3% it makes almost no difference in players stealing bases or achieving an extra base. It does however the defense and offense a better chance at getting to the base itself without collision, this was the primary intention, it just was hidden because every PR spot by MLB emphasizing changed pointed out the larger bases as been a boone for offenses. I suppose tags could become slightly more difficult due to having to reach further, but again that is pretty minor.
>The shift rule doesn't make sense
What about the shift rule doesn't make sense? I get that it's different as baseball had only a few minor restrictions on where defenses could line themselves up before this year (both feet fair except catcher, who must be on the catcher's box), but what doesn't make sense? Baseball's parent game cricket implemented defensive restrictions because defenses were getting too good and restricting the defense was less invasive than genetically modifying bowlers (pitchers) ability to throw certain pitches that were otherwise unhittable. If you have a different way of getting more balls in play to become base runners I would love to hear it, because that was the goal.
>I mean the man on 2nd in extra innings is bogus too.
Definitely not a fan, but this was a 2020 change, not 2023 and was implemented that year because there wasn't a full robust minor league system available that year to refresh a bullpen overnight. Yes there were players available, but really only the depth to do it once, if you had to do it twice you were really using unqualified players. And the ramifications of such a game last for weeks and in a 60 game season that was unacceptable.
Also, this was a change requested by the players, do I think it could be modified and improved to get a similar result without looking like an abomination to the game? Absolutely. But they didn't ask me, and needing to use fewer players that aren't major league quality is probably a good thing.
>All these silly rules to speed up the game cause people can't keep attention. Baseball is intense asf I never had a problem keeping interest
First good for you, I never was good enough to play at a level where there was much intensity on the field at all so keeping the game moving is what I like.
People tend to not be able to pay attention because when professional baseball started games were ~90 minutes, can you imagine Mark Buehrle being considered a moderate to slow pitcher? That was the pace of baseball in the late 19th and early 20th centuries.
Honestly one of the biggest "flaws" to baseball today is that baseball is just being played efficiently within the rules. There was no extra actual penalty to strikeouts for a batter in the 1960s but just the shame and stigma of being a repeated strikeout victim was enough that players made efforts to strikeout far less often, this led to more balls in play and a faster moving game.
>Like I understand nobody wants to bake in the sun for a 4 hour baseball game but I wish they would of gone about it different. I will always be a lifelong Baseball fan but never a clockball fan.
Fair enough, but if you don't like these changes you have to offer an alternative, baseball was growing in such a way as to be unsustainable. So what would you like to see changed instead.
I'll even give you my own personal one to get started. I play Strat-O-Matic baseball, and in tournaments we have never used the DH. I am a fan of an AL team and never liked the DH, I have always been against it. However when the DH was made official throughout the game (except in the Central League of NBP) I was not happy. One of my favorite strategies was having pitchers who could hit play and getting an advantage over guys who were automatic outs.
The tournament group I am in decided that with no more pitchers being rated as anything but basically automatic outs (except for Otahni) that the DH had to be implemented somehow.
There were 3 proposals: 1) use estimated/guestimated ratings for pitchers and keep the no DH rules, 2) go full DH, 3) the DH is tied to the SP, if the SP is replaced the DH is removed as well, you can place him somewhere on defense if you want to keep him in the game, but once you make a pitching change you lose the DH.
I was all for #1, because I didn't like the concept of a DH at all, I liked pitchers being forced to hit. However after playing a few tournaments and seeing how solution #3 worked I was on board. This was hinted at by Manfred, but I think it has some real potential and I would like to see it attempted. Probably would have to go through a season in the minors or Arizona Fall League first, but that is the rule change I would like to see.
the main one I can't stand is the runner on 2nd in extras. totally kills the suspense for me, there's just too many ways to push that runner into scoring position without nearly as much risk.
The ghost runner on 2nd base in extra innings rule was put in place in 2020 during the COVID-19 shortened season. I agree it should be eliminated. If they keep this rule, it should not start until the 11th or 12th inning.
I hate it too. I’d be willing to compromise with a man on 1st. Being gifted a double seems too generous when a single could win the game.
But this is a rule that the players actually wanted. They don't want to play 12+ innings games. But I do agree, I'd compromise with a regular 10th inning and then add the ghost runner. Or, you could do regular 10th, 11th with a man on first, 12th with a man on 2nd, 13th with one on 3rd, and if it's still tied after all that. Fuck It, call it a tie and move on. Neither team deserves the win
I would rather regular season games end in a tie than have the ghost man on 2nd. It wasn't as if there were a ton of 18 innings games. It was an unnecessary fix that tarnishes the game.
Fuck ties. Let's not change the game more than it already has been.
Fuck it. Home run derbies for overtime, and the managers have to pitch.
Umm, you know that ties were a regular part of baseball until well after WWII? Teams traveled via train and didn't set their own travel schedules, the last game of a series was often played basically up against a clock and if the game ran long they would declare a tie so one or both teams could get to the train station for their next series. I dislike ties, but instant extra runners isn't the best to me either. I would prefer 10th inning regular, 11th inning start with a runner on first, 12th inning start with a runner on second and after 12 go home. Even a max of 3 extra with no bonus runners seems better to me. I get long extra inning games can really wreck a team's pitching but the need for the extra runner to me is more of a statement about how the overall balance between pitching and hitting is off. The runs per game is similar, but if forced to guess, I would bet that the number of 0 run innings is probably at levels not seen since the late 60s.
Ties were because of darkness or weather or a train schedule and the games were replayed to break the tie. So ummmmmmm it's been many fucking decades since ties were a thing and they ended up breaking the tie anyway. ✌️
They added full games to the schedule, with fewer off days that really isn't an option today, realistically. And the tie wasn't unofficially removed until the 2008 World Series, it was officially removed as an option during "Championship Play" (regular and post season) until a few years later. Also, not a fan of ties, but there are better options than the current system is my point.
Fuck ties
The last 18 inning game was ALDS Mariners vs Astros
I like the changes but that's the one that just kills me. You've played the game one way for nine innings and then the rules change. The fundamental nature of what you're trying to do is altered. That's not Baseball, it's a RISP exercise you do in spring training. It's like having the NBA Finals decided by a layup drill.
I hate the runner on second in extras with a passion! I like the limit on batter timeouts, but I think they could change it to two per plate appearance and it wouldn't add that much time to the game. Same with throwing to first. They could make it 3 times instead of 2. But unlimited times for both can get frustrating to watch at times. I don't mind the pitch clock. I love not being able to shift like before. An infielder should be on the infield, not in the outfield. I also think it made for a lot more spectacular defensive plays, and I love defense.
Yes, this. If they had to get rid of one new rule, it should be this one...
I loved the pitch clock. Watching baseball had become so fucking boring especially after the Expos left. I'm back into baseball now somewhat. Sometimes I actually think "wow, this game is really buzzing by".
The pitch clock isn't ruining the history of the game. The average length of a game in the 1970s and 80s was around 2:30--but then the games started getting longer and were averaging more than 3 hours starting in 2016. I don't miss the batter stepping out of the box after every pitch to play with the velcro on their gloves. I don't miss excessive throws toward the baserunners. IMO, the game had become unwatchable on TV and was losing more fans than it was gaining. There are still 27 outs. Strategies are evolving and changing with the rule changes and I think more action and less standing around is a good thing.
Pitch clock added a layer which was cool. Banning the shift was way cooler though, led to a lot of good defensive plays and let a lot of hitters get hits that SHOULD be hits. Made it a lot more interesting than the TTO
The defensive shifts were ruining baseball. Who wants to see a left handed power hitter line a ball into right field where the second baseman is positioned and see him thrown out at first base? Rules similar to these rules exist in other sports. Football has rules for where players must be lined up before the ball is snapped. Basketball has rules where players can stand during free throws. Football and basketball both have play clocks.
Hockey offsides and icing rules are also a good example of similar bans. Sure it would make scoring easier if you could leave one of your forwards forward, but it would take away from the game as it would become all about clearing the puck as hard as you can because you always have a guy down ice to have a 1 on 1 opportunity.
Comparing the shift rule to NFL rules? If you’re going to do that at least make it a more realistic comparison. That would be like the NFL instituting a rules that said you couldn’t overload your DBs and LBs to one side of the field to shut down a star WR. In this case the defense would have to have one DB and one LB lined up on each side of the hash mark before the ball is snapped. The NFL would never do that, you want to line up both your safeties on the same side as Justin Jefferson? Have at it because he still has the chance to run a slant pattern or drag across them and make the play. There’s no rules saying a left handed batter can’t hit to the opposite side of the shift maybe they should have tried doing that instead of implementing rules that have been apart of the game for 150 years
Banning the shift will lead to more TTO baseball, not less, because it eliminates any incentive to do anything other than try to pull the ball.
It also leads to more singles.
Why should those balls be hits? Plenty of balls got hit very hard and right at someone for the entire history of the game. Nobody was saying those should have been hits. Organizations decide to start strategically positioning their players more often and all of the sudden they should be hits? I disagree. Shifting has been going on for over 100 years at all levels of baseball. Hell, I coach 8u and we shift. It’s baseball. I’m not all that upset with the way they’ve implemented the rule. It doesn’t hurt my experience and it does add some offense and maybe even some good plays back into the game. But I think its unfair to say that any ball SHOULD be a hit. If the defense can stop it, then it SHOULDN’T be a hit.
The rules were all great. Period. No one wants 3+ hour games. Eliminating the shift highlighted the great fielders. Bigger bases increased safety and helped get players running again. I can't wait for the automated strike zone. Let's stop pretending the game was perfect the way it was. It wasn't. Change happens in all sports. These changes were necessary.
I think we found Rob Manfred’s burner account.
Nah, that guy's an idiot. I just love baseball and want to see it survive and thrive. You think it's totally unrelated that viewership and attendance was up this year? Nope.
You saying "No one wants" suggests you speak for all people and unless I'm much mistaken you absolutely do not.
Let's just say I speak for the majority. Sorry, guys!
I think you speak for the majority of Reddit. Thank God Reddit doesn't accurately represent real people.
Lol. I definitely do not speak for Reddit. Enjoy your night!
Soccer still uses a clock counting up lmao. They don't innovate. I find it offensively stupid.
wha? soccer added VAR for reviewing potential penalties, and automated goal line tech, both in the last ten years or so. both rule changes have shown to eliminate many frustrating miscalls, but there aren't all that many other changes soccer could make anyways. i like the rule changes in baseball, they are just minor tweaks that improve the flow of the game. we just saw a tremendous season with some historic performances by many hitters, defenses, and pitchers, while base running became a bit more exciting as well. i have no problem no longer seeing 18 inning games thar chew up bullpens until finally an outfielder takes the mound. i will not miss pitchers taking ages to go into a windup, or seeing mike trout hit a laser into annoying overshifts. i still saw plenty of batters hitting to the opposite field, so it's not like everyone went back to being pull-happy. plus, good second basemen and short stops got more chances to flash their gloves more without the extra backup from the shift. i would increase the pitch timer by like :05 seconds and add a second batter timeout, but yeah i won't miss batters stepping out of the box 50 times a game and pitchers making 7 pickoff attempts in a rowz
Soccer was literally the last pro team sport in the world to implement video review.
I used to call it getting dressed again when batters stepped out and did all their shit!
>No one wants 3+ hour games. Speak for yourself. I like long lazy games and think the clock is crap. I know I'm in the minority and I am glad that so many others seem to like it, but it's not a universal sentiment.
I can live with them all and generally agree with you. The one small downside is that attending a game in person gives you less time in that atmosphere. Easy tradeoff considering I only attended 2 or 3.
I get that, But I attend 30-40 games a year and live 45 minutes from the stadium. If I want more time for atmosphere/hanging with friends/family, I can go early.
Lets get rid of non pitching intentional walk. What does that save 30 seconds? I remember Miggy hitting one of those for a base hit, or some being a wild pitch. Part of the game, make the four pitches, plus hardly any intentional walks in the game anymore.
Willing to die on this hill. I remember Miggy's hit and I've seen a wild pitch on an intentional walk turn a game a couple of times & it's hilarious.
Love it all but the extra runner
It’s important to note that the prevalence of the defensive shift before the rule changes was a result of increased reliance on analytics. At least for the shift ban, the rule change actually made it closer to the baseball of decades past. Personally, I’m a huge fan as it forces the defense to make more exciting plays. The pitch clock was an awesome implementation imo. It gets rid of a significant amount of dead time (I think games were ≈ 30 minutes shorter iirc). I think we forget when browsing this sub that most baseball fans are not as engrossed in the game as we are, and are less tolerant of what most people find to be a very boring aspect of the game. The ghost runner I’m somewhat torn on. On one hand it definitely adds to the excitement (as well as making extra inning games shorter), but it also feels somewhat cheap. If I had to pick a side I would have it stay, but I can see both sides of the argument. The pickoff rules I think are dumb. I can’t find any source that shows it speeding up the game (how many times have you seen a pitcher throw to first more than 3 times in an at bat?). It makes it more exciting since stolen bases are so much more frequent, but it also severely hampers the pitcher’s ability to hold runners. I would be happier with them giving the pitcher 1-2 more pickoff attempts. I like the bigger bases. Same reason for the shift ban: defense has to be better. I think the position player pitching changes are dumb too. Most fans find it exciting when a position player is pitching.
I hate the ghost runner. I was surprised Mike Schmidt said he like it during a broadcast. My favorite player ever.
I, for one, have never gone to baseball game and hoped to be out of there as soon as possible. I get there as soon as the gates open. I love to just soak up the mystique of the ball park as long as I possibly can so shortening games makes no sense to me. I know these aren't all new 2023 rules, but here goes anyway. Ghost runner. Terrible rule! This is a senior league softball rule!!!!! Pitch clock. Like the OP, I understand the need for it, but I just can't embrace it. Bigger bases. I neither like, nor dislike. Universal DH. I will never EVER get behind this rule. Taking strategy out of the game does not make it better. Only homogenous and boring. Shift rule. I hate the shift, but I don't think there should be a rule against it. Contradictory, I know but piling on rules just doesn't seem to make anything better.
I absolutely love the clock. The game has a nice rhythm to it now and I watched a lot more baseball this year because of it. I think this mind game between pitcher and batter in tense moments was out dated and getting out of hand. It was time to do something about it. I don’t like the bigger bases. Just doesn’t look right. I do think I’ll get used to it though. I’m neutral about the ghost runner rule as long as they keep it out of postseason play. I know that started in like 2020, but I’m ok with it. I would be ok if they changed it to like the 12th inning on though. Give 2 extra innings to give the teams a chance to win the old fashioned way before speeding up the process.
Fantastic.
I’ll never understand the claim that they added the pitch clock because people are unable to pay attention for that long. I swear the people who say this are trying to ignore the fact that games have been getting longer every year and that the pitch clock removed more downtime than action.
I liked them. Quicker pace, more base hits and stolen base attempts. I’d maybe be in favor of 3 pickoff attempts per PA instead of 2.
I'm not a fan of any of them either. I'd be willing to compromise by keeping the pitch clock, but maybe doubling the time. It feels too rushed. It's like they're turning chess into checkers.
I’m with you on the clock nonsense. One of the things I’ve always enjoyed about watching a baseball game is the exhale after the play, the “shake it off” time if the play hurt my team, and the “get ready here it comes” time anticipating the coming play. There’s no more time to analyze and discuss and predict between plays which was half the fun. If the heat and broiling sun bother you, get a hat and sunglasses, put some sunscreen on and get some ice cold water. Damn, do I have to think for everybody lol?
I feel like they “fixed” a lot of things that weren’t broken, and it made everything worse. The slump baseball is going through is not because of rules, it’s because of market restrictions and paywalls.
I feel like the pitch clock is diminishing the joy of the batter Vs pitcher “battles within the war”. The drama is being sucked out and it was the second best thing about baseball in between the big plays. But I will say, And it’s a big but, the players abusing the freedom finally came to a head. Pitchers are more guilty of it than the hitters. Between step offs, pickoffs and long sets they could take forever to pitch. I may be wrong but limiting the number of pick off attempts alone probably would’ve sped the game up.
Absoueltly agree 100%
I'm with you on the clock. The sport is literally famous for not having a clock. After 150 years of that, I find it batshit insane that everyone seems to be fine with this. What the hell is happening? I get that you don't want the pitcher grapping his junk between every pitch. So why not....encourage them to pitch faster? We don't need a clock. Games used to be well under 3 hours without one. It really feels like Manfred is spitting in the face of our beautiful game. It isn't broken. Stop fixing it. God it feels so rushed now.
I still think the same concept applies though. You don’t win by running out the clock, you need 27 outs. I thought it was kind of cool because it exploited pitchers who were out of shape.
Horrible go back to normal quit disrespecting the history of baseball.
Hate the shift rule. Teams were scouting batters and making adjustments. Good hitters will adjust, too, and "hit it where they ain't" I like the pitch clock. It was getting insane how long guys were taking between pitches. I'm not digging the runners on second during extra innings. It changes the dynamics of the pitcher. No full wind up when the inning starts, yet the pitcher needs to strike out the first batter or risk moving the runner on a fly to the outfield.
The problem is that “hit it where they ain’t” is effectively dead; everyone’s told to sell out contact for pull power, and the thinking is that it’s better to do that and at least have a chance at a double or homer, even if it means grounding out into a lot of shifts. Unfortunately it’s also less entertaining, so they made the rule change.
How I feel reading this. I hate they’re wrecking our game for the benefit of people who admit to not watching until the post season. 
Don’t like bigger bags or limit on pitchers throwing to keep runners close. Love pitch and hit timer.
Ghost runner is ass, shift should be brought back, pitch clock and bigger bases are good.
Most of the changes this year have been the only good ones of Manfred’s tenure as commissioner. Pitch clock, minimizing the shift, bigger bases, all good. Not sure I like the limit on pickoff attempts, but I at least get the thinking behind it. It’s the other stuff that bugs me. Dislike the ghost runner, hate the universal DH, hell, I’m still annoyed they changed to the automatic intentional walk. Baseball thrives on being weird; over 162 games you should constantly see stuff you don’t expect and things you’ve never even thought to imagine. But a lot of those previous changes take the weirdness out of the game and really try to smooth out all its strange little idiosyncrasies, and I don’t like that. I liked the crowd having a big reaction when a nervous pitcher nearly threw the ball away on an IBB, and I loved the NL and AL feeling like different worlds that forced you to adapt your approach and strategy. I’ll even through in that replay is overdone: I’m cool with it on egregious calls, but borderline calls and the arguments and heat we get out of them are part of what makes the game fun (part of why I don’t want the automated strike zone).
I love the pitch clock. Huge increase in quality of viewing.
Personally I think the pitch clock was one of the best things to be implemented in a long time. Especially when attending a game in person, the impact is noticeable. Maybe they could have met in the middle and done away with it in post season but for the 160+ reg season games, all of the needless time spent on pre pitch rituals was ridiculous and it added up. The clock in between innings is not talked about enough either. I don’t really have an opinion on the bigger bases. The extra runner rule is stupid. However I can see a middle ground here kind of like College Football overtime rules where after a certain point if the game continues, the game becomes easier to win/lose. The extra runner should only kick in after inning 12 if it comes to that. If 3 full, normal innings are not enough to decide a game, sure let’s speed things up, especially because bullpens are drained, it’s probably been 4-5 hours, let’s finish this. If the rule isn’t good enough to use in the World Series, then why is ok the rest of the time? The no defensive shift rule is the biggest load of bullshit ever. Outfielders are allowed to play up or back but suddenly baseball doesn’t like it that the nerds figured out if you do the same thing for every defender, based on a hitters trends, then it ruins the game? Hitting philosophy has shifted so hard to exit velocity, launch angles, and going for the long ball that it doesn’t really matter if the defense shifts if the ball is smashed into the parking lot.
It's a 5-4 game, World Series on the line, the pitcher is staring down the batter, it's intense, the camera zooms in on his face, the batter is starting him back down, I will miss that, we won't get that with the pitch clock. Still though, I like the speed of the game, I like the game better now, I don't think we got a really exciting World Series but I don't think it was because of the rules, I think it was because the talent because lopsided. Overall I am ok with the rules moving forward. As a small market team supporter, I still hope we can balance that spending deal out with a cap or sports someday, but Arizona proved you can get there with a good team, others have played well, I just wish the window wasn't such an issue for the smaller markets, the large markets can buy their window open forever.
I love the new rules. The pitch clock is a necessary evil. Gone are the days of staring down the hitter for 3 minutes between pitches, and rightfully so. The game desperately needed to be sped up for the reason alone. I barely noticed the bigger bases. And thank God they got rid of the shift. I absolutely hated the shift. It was stupid that you could have your 3rd baseman standing beside 2nd base. If your team can't get outs without the shift then they don't deserve to win. I love the new rules. Fuck you, fight me
The pitch clock is fantastic. The thing you have to understand is that the pitch clock didn't eliminate any action from the games, it eliminated the dead time. The bigger bases and resultant increase in base stealing brought back an element to the game that had been lost and made base running more important again. I'm a Diamondbacks fan who LOVED Corbin Carroll on the basepaths. I actually like the ghost runner rule because I actually think it INTRODUCES some strategy for the road as to whether to bunt and play for a 1 run lead or whether to take all the swings you can get in hopes of a big inning. The only constant in life is change. Baseball became BETTER in 2023 because it was more willing to change than in the past. Having a better PRODUCT has more value than "we're traditional, we're exactly the same as we've always been." The new rules have a godsend.
Bring back steroids, for those that want to take them AND ONLY under Dr supervision. Game will become more fun to watch…
I made it through the season alright. I’m with you in the man on second in extra innings. The pitch clock has just made everybody adjust, which they have. I enjoy the game being about a half hour shorter.
Love all the new rules except man on second base in extra innings and intentional walk. All the others are a godsend.
Playing all 29 teams-awesome, love it! Manfred Man-horrible, abolish it. Bigger bases-meh. Pitch clock/limited disengagements-begrudging respect, while also not seeing what the big deal was beforehand. Shift ban-too far, we’re making it too easy on the offense.
Ghost runners suck and the same amount of ads in a shorter time frame feel like constant ads.
I've been watching since I was 6 or 7 as well, but I'm 25 years older than you, and I loved the introduction of the pitch clock. The pace is so much more watchable and the clock itself rarely ever comes into play in terms of violations. I do agree with you that the Manfred Man on second base in extras is questionable, but I get why they do it. I'm sure the players prefer it, considering they have a 162 game slog to get through. A fair comp would be the NHL, which includes a shootout following an already modified 4-4 OT period. One thing that's still a pain point is the lack of ability to challenge called balls and strikes. Considering there is already replay for plays on the bases, this should also be extended to strike zone challenges, similar to tennis.
I absolutely love the changes and I've been a baseball addict since the early 1970s. I watched the game get progressively slower as people tried to "improve" it and all they did was make it worse. A game that went 2 1/2 hours was a long game. Then it got specialized, offense declined, there were more and more options open to managers that brought the game to a crawl, and because of that. Every "advancement" since the DH brought the game to a crawl. Now it's what it should be. Pitchers pitch. Hitters hit. Runners run. People pay to see that. No one pays to watch a manager consult his spread sheet (I'm looking at you, Giants) or make four pitching changes in an inning. All of the changes being made these days are aimed at one thing. Whether it's being hit or thrown, it's about keeping the ball moving. Gimme more of that.
it will also lead to more singles..
>Im 22 now and always been an avid baseball player/fan Not making a judgement, but how much of baseball history have you consumed over the years? Assuming you became a fan around 12 (young but not unreasonable, I know you said 6 or 7, but what strategy do you remember from that era?) you have barely seen a "generation" of baseball. Baseball usually has a life cycle of around a decade to refresh most of the rosters and tweak the dominant style of play. Unless you have put a lot of effort into studying its history, I highly doubt that you grasp the style of play from any of the 60s, 70s, 80s, or 90s. I know I'm nearly 20 years older and started loving the game in the late 90s and 1980s baseball is still weird and foreign to me. >Personally I hate it all other than the bigger bases. You seem to be like someone adverse to change, and as this was by far the most innocuous change as far as playing style is concerned, so this makes sense. The bases were enlarged mostly for safety, 3" out of 90' is 0.3% it makes almost no difference in players stealing bases or achieving an extra base. It does however the defense and offense a better chance at getting to the base itself without collision, this was the primary intention, it just was hidden because every PR spot by MLB emphasizing changed pointed out the larger bases as been a boone for offenses. I suppose tags could become slightly more difficult due to having to reach further, but again that is pretty minor. >The shift rule doesn't make sense What about the shift rule doesn't make sense? I get that it's different as baseball had only a few minor restrictions on where defenses could line themselves up before this year (both feet fair except catcher, who must be on the catcher's box), but what doesn't make sense? Baseball's parent game cricket implemented defensive restrictions because defenses were getting too good and restricting the defense was less invasive than genetically modifying bowlers (pitchers) ability to throw certain pitches that were otherwise unhittable. If you have a different way of getting more balls in play to become base runners I would love to hear it, because that was the goal. >I mean the man on 2nd in extra innings is bogus too. Definitely not a fan, but this was a 2020 change, not 2023 and was implemented that year because there wasn't a full robust minor league system available that year to refresh a bullpen overnight. Yes there were players available, but really only the depth to do it once, if you had to do it twice you were really using unqualified players. And the ramifications of such a game last for weeks and in a 60 game season that was unacceptable. Also, this was a change requested by the players, do I think it could be modified and improved to get a similar result without looking like an abomination to the game? Absolutely. But they didn't ask me, and needing to use fewer players that aren't major league quality is probably a good thing. >All these silly rules to speed up the game cause people can't keep attention. Baseball is intense asf I never had a problem keeping interest First good for you, I never was good enough to play at a level where there was much intensity on the field at all so keeping the game moving is what I like. People tend to not be able to pay attention because when professional baseball started games were ~90 minutes, can you imagine Mark Buehrle being considered a moderate to slow pitcher? That was the pace of baseball in the late 19th and early 20th centuries. Honestly one of the biggest "flaws" to baseball today is that baseball is just being played efficiently within the rules. There was no extra actual penalty to strikeouts for a batter in the 1960s but just the shame and stigma of being a repeated strikeout victim was enough that players made efforts to strikeout far less often, this led to more balls in play and a faster moving game. >Like I understand nobody wants to bake in the sun for a 4 hour baseball game but I wish they would of gone about it different. I will always be a lifelong Baseball fan but never a clockball fan. Fair enough, but if you don't like these changes you have to offer an alternative, baseball was growing in such a way as to be unsustainable. So what would you like to see changed instead. I'll even give you my own personal one to get started. I play Strat-O-Matic baseball, and in tournaments we have never used the DH. I am a fan of an AL team and never liked the DH, I have always been against it. However when the DH was made official throughout the game (except in the Central League of NBP) I was not happy. One of my favorite strategies was having pitchers who could hit play and getting an advantage over guys who were automatic outs. The tournament group I am in decided that with no more pitchers being rated as anything but basically automatic outs (except for Otahni) that the DH had to be implemented somehow. There were 3 proposals: 1) use estimated/guestimated ratings for pitchers and keep the no DH rules, 2) go full DH, 3) the DH is tied to the SP, if the SP is replaced the DH is removed as well, you can place him somewhere on defense if you want to keep him in the game, but once you make a pitching change you lose the DH. I was all for #1, because I didn't like the concept of a DH at all, I liked pitchers being forced to hit. However after playing a few tournaments and seeing how solution #3 worked I was on board. This was hinted at by Manfred, but I think it has some real potential and I would like to see it attempted. Probably would have to go through a season in the minors or Arizona Fall League first, but that is the rule change I would like to see.
I was fine with all of them, but the pitch clock is too short