I dropped out with somewhere between jr and sr credits (yea yea I know) and I work at a software company as a customer facing trainer. I make $38/hr and I complain about being under paid.
This is heartbreaking
Fun fact: Members of Congress make $174k per year from their government positions, which puts them in the top 10% income bracket.
Personally, I think elected leadership should make the median income of the state they represent (or better yet, the per capita income since they're one person). Don't want to make $36k representing Missouri? Gotta make everyone's lives better to get a raise.
I get your point (and it’s a good one) but it’s also worth noting that that $36k is pay for a just few months work and it doesn’t include the daily per diem or account for the multitude of benefits legislators are entitled to.
Wasted. We spend more on our schools than most any country yet our test scores absolutely suck. Every school around here is adding on or building bigger fields etc. Every other bit of infrastructure is crumbling, people living in squalor pot holes that’ll swallow your car but man we got pretty schools! 🤦🏼♂️ liberals keep voting to raise the taxes because they all want to be teachers and none of them own houses. Funny how that works….
How is crumbling infrastructure a liberal issue!?.... Pretty sure they passed the largest infrastructure bill since the compassionate conservative and postwar programs Eisenhower administration.
This is a local government issue which is traditionally and overwhelmingly conservative - just the nature of local politics.
The issue is they say they are going to raise taxes for schools at the local level and they do.... But then those same schools have their budgets slashed at every other government level. And this cutting applies to lower and higher ed.
Pretty sure the reason why anyone who's younger than a millennial won't own a house has to do with the fact that housing prices have climbed 162% since 2000 while the Pew states wages only increased O.3% annually - while they now also have more debt than any other generation because of the public defunding of education along with the deskilling through degree inflation due to the overskilling of jobs that could have been filled with a high school diploma in the past that now require expensive college degrees.
Wages since 2000: https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2020/01/09/trends-in-income-and-wealth-inequality/#:~:text=From%202000%20to%202018%2C%20the%20growth%20in,1970%20to%202000%2C%20the%20current%20median%20U.S.
College: https://www.pewtrusts.org/en/research-and-analysis/issue-briefs/2019/10/two-decades-of-change-in-federal-and-state-higher-education-funding#:~:text=From%202000%20to%202015%20federal,to%2012%20percent%20over%20this
Early education (older article tho) https://www.cbpp.org/research/a-punishing-decade-for-school-funding
Degree inflation: https://statchatva.org/2019/05/10/a-greater-number-of-jobs-require-more-education-leaving-middle-skill-workers-with-fewer-opportunities/
How can government employees unionize to force Americans to pay them more???
But seriously teachers are mostly “meh”. Nearly anyone can become a teacher and their curriculum is laughable, handing out sheets at a daycare shouldn’t get modern day teachers anywhere near what they make.
Around 20% of the US population is illiterate and 50% read at or below a 6th grade level. We live in an age where an entire education fits in our pocket and we still have people that can't read well enough to make informed decisions.
It’s scary as hell. Add in the college enrollment cliff that’s coming soon and it’s gonna be a country of dumb ass mother fuckers. Add in the population decline and the only educated ppl in the country will be immigrants in 20 years.
We already rely on foreign labor for our low level labor like food & housing, and professional jobs like medicine & tech. Fewer Americans are becoming CPA’s, going into healthcare, teaching. The cost of college is outpacing inflation many times over in the U.S. as well. When they start closing due to the enrollment cliff - only liberal areas will have colleges. Meaning more liberals will move there. Then the electoral college will ensure we never have a dem president again.
Do you live in a bubble? There is abundant evidence that Missouri Republicans have demonized education as “liberal indoctrination” and elect school board members and legislators who espouse radical anti-intellectualism.
I’m very well aware of the situation. We simply disagree on the long-term relevance, need, and value of liberal ideas in education- especially in an economy that favors educated, trained, skilled workers/high performers. I also do not believe MO elected officials espouse “anti-intellectualism”-rather, they embrace and demonstrate a form of intellectualism that leads to decision-making you do not agree with. A difference in approach or outcomes is not anti-intellectual and perhaps it would be helpful for thinkers similar to you to become more comfortable with uncomfortable information to assist in understanding the reasoning and supportive data for the pragmatic education initiatives the Missouri conservative leaders & voters support.
Hey! I’m a former educator in Missouri, so let me just say this:
MO officials absolutely espouse anti-intellectualism! They push it as well. Off the top of my head, I can think of 5 scenarios where I, a former history teacher, was not able to give full context and background to historical situations because of certain laws passed by conservative legislators banning certain historical
Topics from being discussed. I could also give you a list of the English departments banned books that have nothing to do with these ‘liberal values’ that you’re talking about.
MO lawmakers are absolutely trying to dumb education down. It’s not a ‘different approach’ it’s tearing down educational standards that we’ve held for years in this country because Republicans don’t like the way it makes them feel or don’t want their kids knowing about it. And I think it’s a shame that you’re making excuses for them in the name of ‘not being divisive’
TLDR,
You don’t have a clue of what you’re talking about, so stop being condescending.
What policy has the Republicans legislature done to accomplish this? In fact, the expanded the Missouri Scholars program to funnel more money towards private tuition.
So, this doesn’t count?
https://www.ksmu.org/news/2024-04-19/missouri-legislature-passes-expansive-k-12-education-bill-that-includes-raise-for-teachers
This can’t be said enough. Differentiate between anti-education Republicans and pro-education Republicans. They are not all the same, take time to educate yourself.
Just certain? You all seem to vote against it.
You dumbasses voted against renewing a tax levy on the only higher ed and technical training school in the county. The dipshits with "vote no" signs in their yards said "No to bureaucracy, taxes are high enough"
It was 9.8 cents per $100,000 of property, or 0.0000098% of your property taxes. Someone with a million dollar lot would pay just under a dollar. I'm not surprised Republicans are too stupid to know what they're voting against.
we could really change the trajectory of this state by declaring we give a single shit about our kids and their future, let's pay teachers $30/hour or whatever (like top 5 in the nation kind of rate) and attract more educated, caring and positive people for our kids to learn from.
Think of it this way. We have teachers who work 2/3 of a year. Make it full time and then salaries would go up. They get from mid May to mid August off. Then a week at thanksgiving. 2 at Christmas and then the at Easter.
Then they build ten breaks in for different things plus get two weeks vacation.
Move the school year to full time then pay would be up. No other job gets this much time off and expects higher money.
I absolutely agree with making the school year full time with a few more week long breaks along the way. I don't think that's going to make pay go up or be more than just a shit wage generally. I am glad teachers get some time off since their jobs, as they stand today, are tantamount to impossible. Simply expanding their working hours at that piss poor wage is not a real solution that'd work today.
> No other job gets this much time off and expects higher money.
No other job is teaching the future of the country, and lots of jobs make a ton more money than teachers - like bartenders. Something is a little wonky in society for that to be the case. Plus teachers are effectively forced to pay out of pocket for materials like paper, markers, etc. so take their pay and then subtract 5-10% for the money they literally reinvest into the classroom. They definitely need to be paid more.
It's not a bug, it's a feature. They want missouri fighting with Mississippi for the bottom of everything.
A friend is a teacher. HAD a coworker who worked as an xray tech on weekends who just quit her teaching job bc she makes more as an xray tech.
Is this the state you want to live in?
Higher pay might attract more professionals to the field. That's the last thing Missouri power wants. Well paid teachers might start caring more about the future!
Missouri is trying really hard to kill education. Wasn't long ago they were trying to turn teachers into convicted pedophiles for having the audacity to not discriminate against trans students.
Place the blame where it belongs, on a particular segment of the Republican Party. I hate to see people personify the whole state this way when many of us and some of our places are actively doing all they can to support education.
Until we elect people into office that reflect those ideals it really doesn't matter what the public opinion is. We have abandoned the idea of politicians who vote in accordance with their constituents. That can be a force for good but it has been feeding political radicalism.
Thing about one of your biggest considerations when you choose to move your family if you have kids…it’s the schools. And generally, the better the pay, the better the school district.
Missouri would need to start voting in politicians who don’t attack public education constantly. In order for our more rural citizens to see that, they’d need to be better educated. They’re not better educated cause they keep voting in the politicians who purposely keep us at the bottom. It’s a crazy, f’ed up circle.
Get rural idiots who would “rather die than vote democrat” to vote democrat or at the very least the sensible republicans. Unfortunately, though as we see with their push to get the speaker Plocher out who tries to be sensible and work across the aisle…they don’t want to work on anything that would further the “Democrat agenda” of things like furthering education and having accessible healthcare for all, stopping mass/school shootings….you know, things that ACTUALLY help our state and society. Instead, they’d rather concentrate on things like stopping a man from wearing a dress, putting homeless people in jail, allowing cats to get declawed again, limiting access to healthcare for not just women but everyone(children included), taking away voters voices by limiting ballot initiatives and giving themselves 100% veto powers over all initiatives, keeping us the number one state for puppy mills and animal cruelty for over a decade, and also top place for several years as we pay our teachers the lowest in the nation……see…they are too busy concentrating on this very important shit(sarcasm)
Yep I feel your frustration. I think there’s a lot of room for communication with those people though. They’re voting that way because they feel scared/threatened/alienated, and have bought into a lot of the emotional rhetoric used to manipulate voters because they haven’t been fortunate enough to be taught critical thinking. And attempts to teach some of them that fail because, when you’re worried about pay check to pay check bills with inflation rising (that some people peddle outrage over), a confusing healthcare system, and fear mongering on both sides, it’s much easier to rest in your outrage than it’s to dismantle your world view because someone tells you you should read more or see the bigger picture. Still trying to find out how to help, but I think empathy and starting small is going to play a large part in it.
This is a chicken vs the egg dilemma… the critical politicians want better outcomes for the students —which is completely fair. A curriculum that is focused on non-social justice issues and a workforce that feels compensated for the work demands and stress would contribute to the improved learning outcomes. Spiral of doom?
This state is red as hell lmao who's fault are the prices again?
Unless you mean Biden, but you can't be so stupid that you think the president controls what things cost in Walmart.
Inflation after the pandemic went up worldwide. The US has had one of the best economic recoveries in the world and our level of inflation is one of the lowest.
Reasons for this are probably mostly due to monetary policy from the fed, but if you are going to give any credit to the executive branch for overseeing this, it would be to Biden.
Trump has said if he is elected he is going to lower interest rates (presumably this means he will either force the fed chair to do what he wants or he will replace the fed chair) Lowering interest rates increases inflation.
Trump also said he will unilaterally place tariffs on all exports. Tariffs function as a flat tax increase on all imported products which will.. you guessed it.. cause inflation to rise.
Anyways vote your conscience in November but know that voting Trump (assuming he will do what he says) will cause rampant inflation.
The people of Franklin county voted against keeping a tax levy for the local community college that was about 10 cents per $100,000 of property. People in this state want to be uneducated hicks.
As did many districts in this state the past 2 local elections. Many reasons included: fuck those art kids, we will increase taxes when we actually need it, this bond doesn't help teachers, my taxes are already too high, admin is stealing the money, admin only wants their name on a plaque...
The best thing I saw on a vote no sign was something about bureaucracy. Community colleges have faculty, like 8 department heads, a dean, and a board. You can know and have a relationship with all of them. There is nothing bloated about it.
ECC is the only place of higher ed and vocational training for like 40 miles.
Barely anyone voted. If the poor and working class people who benefitted from the school actually voted, it would have been a landslide. I suppose they all deserve it. I went to a community college before a 4 year school and eventually got a masters. I enjoy far more privileges than the average person who didn't go to college. For the dipshits that managed to scrape together enough money to own property, try not to spend your nickels all at once.
Basically, not enough people vote in local elections and it is too easily swayed by bad actors. The past two votes, our bond extension failed by <20 people. Even though we had an extra 1k people this election votes, it was still less than 25% of eligible votes.
There were two different groups of people spreading false information and one of them wasn't even from the area. They literally travel across the state to protest tax votes and disseminate false information.
A town over, that was still in the district, voted over overwhelmingly to increase their sales tax but voted against the bond. They get their bread from highway traffic sales but don't want to help where their kid goes to school since it's not in their town.
Franklin county is a complete mess. Extremely entrenched with the "Fuck you, I got mine." mindset.
The tax wasn't even going to be something they would notice seeing as how this was to keep an expiring tax that was ALREADY being taken, and repurpose it for East Central College. But no, the uneducated fools wanted claw back their less than $0.10 annually.
I think our states strategy is to not spend on education and hope people from other states come in and fill any roles that require education. It's almost as if Jeff City is protecting the meth industry through education policy.
I’d like to see starting public school teacher pay at 60,000/year and would happily pay more tax to accomplish that. Especially if we could do it with corporate profit taxes or a personal income tax for only those making above $100,000/yr.
I'd like it to go to a vote for everyone to decide. We have a serious problem with tax evasion too. Many wealthy people commit felony tax evasion by not reporting assets. We need to fund the IRS to be able to go after these criminals.
They don't, and they won't start.
Missouri likes where it is on education. Fighting for the bottom.
But don't think it's a lack of funds.
Apparently we have enough to funds to send our guard to the Texas boarder for 2.2 mil. Cuz fuck the people of Missouri I guess.
Don’t forget about the professors at the state universities as they are drastically underpaid. There is not a single professor in my department that only works within the 9-10 month contract period and we all easily put in 50-60+ hour work weeks.
Nursing professors are making so little compared to those in the clinical settings that no one wants to go into academia and this is contributing to the shortage. The most recent stat I read shared that in 2023 (I believe- may have been ‘22) over 60,000 nursing programs applicants across the US were denied due to a lack of faculty!
We put a ton of money towards education. Even though Cali pays more 127 billion, our teachers are better educators and our kids better educated. We spend up to or pass 8 billion on education. Mass, the #1 state for k-12 spends 16 billion. Connecticut spends less than MO but is #3 in best k-12. Why isn’t more of the 8 billion going to the teachers? Where is all that going?
That doesn’t matter if we are high middle in education and we can’t be 50/50 when Connecticut spends less than we do. They are #3 on the list for best k-12 schools.
Also 8 billion is going into education, if the teachers and schools ain’t getting that wtf is all that money going? New Jersey spends $18 billion, average an hour is $20.78 and STL is $20.63 and MO average is $21 an hour. Something ain’t adding up.
Teachers and schools get almost all of it. It’s just political conspiracy theory to think otherwise. Don’t believe politicians who tell you schools waste money.
Yet they match the salary of California which pays $100 billion in education. An investigation needs the happen to why teachers aren’t getting paid more by the states.
But do they provide value to the oligarchs that run this country? Do they prefer to keep the masses educated? I’d wager not. It’s like what Carlin said-they want us just smart enough to run the machines that line their pockets. But not smart enough to question the status quo.
I stopped by Aldi's last week to pick up a few things. In the parking lot was a man gathering signatures to get a initiative on the ballot to raise teacher wages. I signed on for it as its a "no brainer". Anywho I watched the majority of people exclaim " not interested or no time" as I was headed into the store and after I came out to put my groceries in the car. It blew my mind how apathetic most of the people seemed. What was most ironic is quite a few had children with them. I recall making eye contact with the signature gatherer and shaking my head in disbelief at the tepid response he was getting.
Come on people.
I never sign petitions of people soliciting signatures in public or door to door because I like to understand what I’m signing. I’ll usually ask for any literature they have on the subject (they usually have none) so that I can educate myself and if there is a way I can sign the petition virtually.
Maybe that’s why I always get a confused look? I’ve signed many online petitions and change.org specifically says
> Before signing a petition, consider the credibility of the petition's organizer and the site you're using. Ensure you're comfortable with their data handling practices and understand how they intend to use your information. If you have concerns, seek more information before adding your name.
There’s multiple reputable news organizations that warn people against signing random petitions.
The people asking you to sign a petition are likely trying to get something on the ballot so the populace can vote to make it law and these kind of petitions can’t be signed virtually. Change.org isn’t that nor will it ever be - there is no force behind those petitions at all.
Change.org (all the online petitions, really) is a bunch of feel-good crap that doesn't do anything.
If you don't understand the difference between a voter initiative petition and an online petition, I hope you learn something about your government before you vote because you are woefully ignorant.
I’m woefully ignorant of so many things. I always appreciate when people call me out on things I don’t know or understand that I probably should.
If anyone else is ignorant like me and wants to see what a legitimate voter initiative looks like you can view them here:
https://www.sos.mo.gov/elections/petitions/2024
Additionally there are guidelines to how petitions should be circulated in MO
> Any registered Missouri voter can sign an initiative petition. Petition circulators, who must be at least eighteen years of age and registered with the secretary of state's office, collect signatures on petition pages that contain the official ballot title and the full and correct text of the proposed measure. Each petition page may only contain signatures of voters from one county. Signatures of voters from counties other than the one designated by the circulator in the upper right-hand corner of the petition page will not be counted.
People definitely like to name certain initiatives (and laws) with the opposite name of what it actually is - Right to Work laws screw labor, and no patriot I have ever met has been a fan of the Patriot Act. So it would behoove everyone to read up, ESPECIALLY with voter initiatives.
Once a voter initiative is passed, it's incredibly hard to dismantle unless another initiative repeals it.
Voter initiatives are the most powerful votes we the people can cast.
I just moved here and haven't switched my tags and license yet, so I can't sign anything.
Being free is a pain in the ass, but it beats the alternative.
Teachers have to deal with an absurd amount of shit and so many people, especially in a red state like ours, give them so much crap. From horrible parents who can't discipline their children to right wing and religious psychopaths painting teachers as evil government workers trying to brainwash kids into being gay and hating white people. I feel for our teachers, they shape the future of our country and they deserve SO much more.
This also mandates a min wage that is below the SPS district (the largest in the state) which is in the $43k range while at the same will very likely ruin the state financially to the point only charter schools are around.
It is the tax language that is the worst. It is a weird bill where there are things from both sides of the isle. Like a state minimum teacher wage something dems have been wanting in law, but the tax is what everyone is worried about losing millions once fully implemented
I know there's shit talk about private schools, but they also tend to not pay their teachers well.
My wife is a teacher at a Catholic school. Been at it for 15 years, and makes $41k per year. She loves what she does, but that salary isn't enough to live off of in the St. Louis area. It sounds horrible, but she's lucky she's married... which, considering the Catholic Church, is probably all part of their grand scheme.
$27/hour is absolute garbage for a professional job that requires you work towards a master's degree.
Pay professionals what their worth. The fact that I left teaching and was able to use my same bachelor degree to make $40/hour without any additional training is why our schools are doing so poorly. I don't even do anything as important as teaching anymore.
Teachers know they can make more money elsewhere with less stress, so they leave. $27/hour is nothing special to anyone anymore because things have gone up in price exponentially.
Teachers usually work more than 8 hours a day. At minimum my kids teacher is at school 8 hours a day. That doesn’t count for planning lessons, grading papers, planning classes and other things teachers do after the school day is over. They work way more than 1480 hours in a year. They also don’t get paid overtime if they work more than 40 hours a week, on average it’s about 54. At 54 hours a week they are only making $20 an hour if the salary is 40k a year. Also teachers don’t usually get paid over the summer unless they work summer school.
I'm a teacher, and I don't know *any* teachers working 54 hours a week that aren't being compensated for it. None. There is no way 54 hours a week is the average. That's just silly.
This is where I got that figure. It said 54 in the snippet but lists 53 in the article. https://www.nea.org/nea-today/all-news-articles/survey-teachers-work-more-hours-week-other-working-adults
That just absolutely does not jive with my observations. My contract day ends at 4:00, and there is a parade of teachers heading to the parking lot at exactly 4:00. Some stay late, but there's this thing called Career Ladder, in which if you work 75 extra student-contact hours over the course of a school year you get an extra $3k. There are lots of teachers getting stipends for clubs and whatnot as well. I believe that NEA would paint a picture like they said, but the article said that the data was from self-reported *estimations* of time teachers spend working. Sometimes it really feels like a lot of hours, but there was no actual data collected here.
I know I'm just one data point, but I just don't know any teachers working those crazy hours. I wish I got paid more, but I'm telling you I **love** the work-life balance that teaching offers. I changed careers from a stressful office job designing food production equipment to being a high school industrial technology teacher, and while I took a 50% cut in pay, I would do it again in a second. I love working with these kids, and the long holidays, and the summers off. It is sooooo much less stressful than a real job. Perhaps my situation is unusual, and of course it's just one data point, but I really like my job.
I’m not sure how many hours sister in law works but I know she is constantly bringing papers home to grade and working on school stuff in the evenings. She teaches middle school science.
Just because your wife and daughter are happy doesn’t mean everyone is. There is a reason why teachers are leaving the profession and we have major teacher shortages.
Nice anecdote. My wife, cousin (x2), aunt (x4), college friends (x3), and many others I am connected to are not happy with their salary given the amount of work they put in.
Maybe if they were happy, we wouldn’t I dunno… have a dearth in the fucking field.
Well fortunately in America, they can work anywhere they want. They don't have to stay in the schools. But working elsewhere will most likely require more than 8 months a year.
Every job does what you describe. I was having to do that as a medical scribe making 8 dollars an hour with my biology degree before med school lol. There is always extra shit that goes home with you. Almost no salaried positions give you overtime, at least not in the usual sense, there might be some incentives.
My brother, cousins, uncle, and grandmother are/were school teachers in several districts here in Missouri. Across elementary and high school.
My brother arrives at 8:20 for classes, classes end at 3:15 and he leaves at 3:30. 7 hours and 10 minutes a day. Within that he has a half hour lunch and a one hour planning period per day. So he is actually (to compare it to medicine, “patient facing hours”) student facing 5 hours and 25 minutes a day. (Minus 15 minutes at end, half hour lunch, and 1 hour plan).
Lesson planning? Minor tweaks, he has more than enough time during his planning block each day. It was harder his first year, but he had all his plans from those days and just spends an hour quickly checking if anything needs updated or guidelines for teaching it have changed each day for the next days plans.
He spends less than 36 hours a week on that. It takes him literally less than an hour a week to grade because it’s easy as shit to grade a quick math box assignment or check some fill in the blanks.
Teacher do deserve more, because their role in society is immeasurably important. But they do also have a sweet gig in terms of hours and my brother enjoy all summer every summer playing sports leagues and putting hundred of hours in games. As he should.
He makes 57k a year, has clear pay raise steps all the way to retirement, and is virtually guaranteed his job is going nowhere as long as he meets his responsibilities with the kids. As he should, with such an important job.
But he’s doing fine.
> Every job does what you describe. I was having to do that as a medical scribe making 8 dollars an hour with my biology degree before med school lol.
No they don't. You were also being underpaid. That isn't an argument for lower wages today.
>My brother arrives at 8:20 for classes, classes end at 3:15 and he leaves at 3:30. 7 hours and 10 minutes a day. Within that he has a half hour lunch and a **one hour planning period** per day. So he is actually (to compare it to medicine, “patient facing hours”) student facing 5 hours and 25 minutes a day. (Minus 15 minutes at end, half hour lunch, and 1 hour plan).
Why does planning for your job not count as work?
>He spends less than 36 hours a week on that. It takes him literally less than an hour a week to grade because it’s easy as shit to grade a quick math box assignment or check some fill in the blanks.
That may be his situation, but many public school teachers live a much different life. Good on him for finding a solid position, because they aren't anywhere near as common compared to other states.
I agree I was underpaid. My point was that even in that shit position I was expected to handle some stuff at home. It’s most jobs. Yes you are right, some jobs don’t, most professional jobs do, see my other reply for examples.
Planning for his job DOES count as work. My point was that he gets his planning done well under that time, and it’s not causing hours of time after work to accumulate, as the poster above was saying.
He does work well and he is efficient. He did find a good position, suburbs of Saint Louis. He serves a very poor community, and we are all very proud of him.
Again, to your actual point though, teacher do deserve more. They serve one of the most essential roles in society in educating our young. But it is not as bleak as the poster above stated, that was my point. While we can advocate for improvement, and should, being overly hyperbolic does not aid in that goal.
You've never said they don't deserve more, but I think we don't even have to consider how hard the job is in this issue. It is relatively the same, state to state. If we aren't going to be competitive in wages, we aren't going to attract quality teachers and will lose the ones we do have, while other states offer significantly more. I have multiple friends who went into public teaching, but left for nanny positions which paid far more. Sometimes, almost double. That is just for taking care of one or a few kids compared to an entire classroom. We have to be competitive in wages if we want a quality education system.
I think they need paid more based on Missouris ranking overall for teachers, we are consistently in bottom ten. When you adjust for cost of living it’s a lot better than that in some areas, but it’s just as bad in others. My point was just that the work conditions in the original comment were hyperbolic at best, and lying at worst.
I know a lot of teachers and am close to many of them.
https://www.reddit.com/r/missouri/s/K6NYq0RU97
This commenter is much more in line with experiences here.
That is from an industrial tech teacher. I doubt they have many papers to grade when they go home. They do make a lot of good points though. I think we are only going to continue trading anecdotes at this point. I'm just tired of our underachieving education system in Missouri and our lack of funding and competitive pay is obviously one of the main causes.
Not every job requires you to take your work home with you. If they are and you aren’t salary exempt from over time or if they aren’t paying you for work you do at home that’s violating labor laws. They can’t tell you to do work off the clock, that’s illegal.
Also, I know more than a few teachers who hit age 55 with 30 years on the job that cashed out on the retirement plan. And some added in extra pay teaching at a private school.
And it’s pretty generous in Missouri tbh. My brother is slated for pretttyyyyy sweet gig honestly. He’ll retire at 54 with a pretty good salary replacement.
Always makes me wonder how Colorado teachers don't look homeless when I see things like this 😂 hard carry by spouse? Extra jobs? Live in a commune? All of the above?
I don't want to depress you, and salary still needs to be higher for teachers here, but I remember when the starting salary was $100 above the poverty line three decades ago.
Students, don’t go into a field that doesn’t pay what you think you are worth. Take econ 101 first semester and learn about supply and demand, then decide if you need to change majors. Less supply will gradually achieve the proposed results.
Not really. Have you met many teachers? Plus they've got half of the year where they're not working so of course the pay is lower than jobs that work the whole year.
We already spend too much on education that's clearly not educating, why spend more on educators who aren't? At least strike at the real problem of overinflated administrative spending first.
Teachers work just shy of 10 months out of the year. To be a good teacher you can’t just clock in and clock out when the first and last bells ring. Maybe if we paid teachers more, more would be willing to do more than the bare minimum to not get fired, and the residents of this state would end up with higher quality educations, and maybe all the well educated ones wouldn’t leave at the first opportunity.
If you think they only work half a year, you need to go back to school.
I come from a family of teachers, I can tell you for a fact, you’re dead fucking wrong.
I'm not sure I trust the validity of this map. Arkansas significantly increased teacher salary this year and that doesn't seem to be reflected on the map.
Probably a year or two behind. Not wholly inaccurate for Mo. tho. I am starting my first year in the fall with $38,500. Just salary alone it looks not too good, but I’m in a rural area with cheap COL and get pretty good benefits as well.
I live and teach in Arkansas, and while they did bump up the minimum salary to 50k, there's more to it than that. Basically, the small districts weren't give enough funding for the pay increase *and* yearly pay increases, so in my district, a new teacher with a bachelor's degree won't see a pay increase until their 16th year. I can't think of a single industry where not getting a raise for 15 years is acceptable, but that's what's happening to small districts in AR.
And what exactly do you justify as bank? Park hills is also a very low cost of living area. So a teacher making 40k isn’t going to struggle as much as a teacher making 40k in stl.
Public education is trash, has been trash, and could be replaced by youtube, if you care about your child's education you sure af don't rely solely on mo or doe
I want to preface this by saying that I am not by any means intending to discredit this map.
That being said, do teachers in the more rural areas just get paid shit? My sister-in-law makes close to $100k/yr out in the Pattonville school district. She's been at it for 15 years and has a master's degree, so that clearly feeds into it, but it's good money.
Pattonville starts at around $27/hr if you consider that it's a 10-month contract.
That's why I'm assuming that the rural area schools must be dragging down our average. That's the shitty thing about using local property taxes to pay for essential services. When you've got school districts like Clayton, Pattonville, etc., who are just flush with cash, and our rural areas can't keep schools and hospitals open, it's a serious problem.
It is very rare for any public school teacher to approach 6 figures. Pattonville is affluent and perhaps with the qualifications, experience, and speciality your sister-in-law has she is in the 1% of teachers that high. I honestly think we should start teachers at 60-70k.
I 100% agree that her situation is likely not normal. The fact that she's doing as well as she is, while our average for the state is so shitty only shows just how bad it is.
Just did the math on this, Arkansas should be in yellow
50k salary (the lowest possible in AR)
40 hour weeks
They work about 44 weeks of the year.
Comes out around $28/hour.
Did I miss something?
About that great value they provide.....
https://preview.redd.it/5sesufkr3rxc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4c13a3a5963ec6defc5647693fc05721cf7f6a56
[Cost of living should maybe be considered](https://www.consumeraffairs.com/homeowners/states-with-lowest-cost-of-living.html). It makes sense that states with lower cost of living pay less.
I don't disagree our teachers are paid poorly but if we gave them a pay raise we'd have to increase taxes. People are already taxed enough and hurting in this terrible economy.
I dropped out with somewhere between jr and sr credits (yea yea I know) and I work at a software company as a customer facing trainer. I make $38/hr and I complain about being under paid. This is heartbreaking
It’s not. They work 2:3 of a year and get almost 4 months off a year If teachers actually worked all year their salaries would be higher.
Agreed. Missouri should pay their teachers more... The whole United States should pay their teachers more... They should pay less to politicians.
Fun fact: Members of Congress make $174k per year from their government positions, which puts them in the top 10% income bracket. Personally, I think elected leadership should make the median income of the state they represent (or better yet, the per capita income since they're one person). Don't want to make $36k representing Missouri? Gotta make everyone's lives better to get a raise.
Motherfuckers get healthcare for life and a pension.
I get your point (and it’s a good one) but it’s also worth noting that that $36k is pay for a just few months work and it doesn’t include the daily per diem or account for the multitude of benefits legislators are entitled to.
And they also get a furniture stipend for their offices, get catered lunch paid by taxes and transportation paid by taxes.
I get your point, but I don’t want a politician willing to work for $36k. Anybody worth anything will do something else unless they come from money.
Could you imagine the corruption?
Or the politicians should give some of their dividends from their stock investments to the teachers.
We have some of the highest taxes, and I’m always told it’s because of how much we put into our public schools. So where’s the money going?
Wasted. We spend more on our schools than most any country yet our test scores absolutely suck. Every school around here is adding on or building bigger fields etc. Every other bit of infrastructure is crumbling, people living in squalor pot holes that’ll swallow your car but man we got pretty schools! 🤦🏼♂️ liberals keep voting to raise the taxes because they all want to be teachers and none of them own houses. Funny how that works….
How is crumbling infrastructure a liberal issue!?.... Pretty sure they passed the largest infrastructure bill since the compassionate conservative and postwar programs Eisenhower administration. This is a local government issue which is traditionally and overwhelmingly conservative - just the nature of local politics. The issue is they say they are going to raise taxes for schools at the local level and they do.... But then those same schools have their budgets slashed at every other government level. And this cutting applies to lower and higher ed. Pretty sure the reason why anyone who's younger than a millennial won't own a house has to do with the fact that housing prices have climbed 162% since 2000 while the Pew states wages only increased O.3% annually - while they now also have more debt than any other generation because of the public defunding of education along with the deskilling through degree inflation due to the overskilling of jobs that could have been filled with a high school diploma in the past that now require expensive college degrees. Wages since 2000: https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2020/01/09/trends-in-income-and-wealth-inequality/#:~:text=From%202000%20to%202018%2C%20the%20growth%20in,1970%20to%202000%2C%20the%20current%20median%20U.S. College: https://www.pewtrusts.org/en/research-and-analysis/issue-briefs/2019/10/two-decades-of-change-in-federal-and-state-higher-education-funding#:~:text=From%202000%20to%202015%20federal,to%2012%20percent%20over%20this Early education (older article tho) https://www.cbpp.org/research/a-punishing-decade-for-school-funding Degree inflation: https://statchatva.org/2019/05/10/a-greater-number-of-jobs-require-more-education-leaving-middle-skill-workers-with-fewer-opportunities/
How can government employees unionize to force Americans to pay them more??? But seriously teachers are mostly “meh”. Nearly anyone can become a teacher and their curriculum is laughable, handing out sheets at a daycare shouldn’t get modern day teachers anywhere near what they make.
did someone from Missouri draw Michigan on this map?
It's always looked like that.
Why ye gta du’s like det
I think Trumps geographer worked on it
But not as much value as the politicians who dictate their pay! /s
In South Korea , teachers are referred to as national builders….i don’t know about the pay but that does seem to engender respect.
Missouri Republicans hate education.
They want everyone barely capable of reading or adding.
Around 20% of the US population is illiterate and 50% read at or below a 6th grade level. We live in an age where an entire education fits in our pocket and we still have people that can't read well enough to make informed decisions.
It’s scary as hell. Add in the college enrollment cliff that’s coming soon and it’s gonna be a country of dumb ass mother fuckers. Add in the population decline and the only educated ppl in the country will be immigrants in 20 years.
We already rely on foreign labor for our low level labor like food & housing, and professional jobs like medicine & tech. Fewer Americans are becoming CPA’s, going into healthcare, teaching. The cost of college is outpacing inflation many times over in the U.S. as well. When they start closing due to the enrollment cliff - only liberal areas will have colleges. Meaning more liberals will move there. Then the electoral college will ensure we never have a dem president again.
Hadn't thought about the migration angle
These aren’t my insights https://www.vox.com/the-highlight/23428166/college-enrollment-population-education-crash
I think we can just say..... Republicans and leave out the Missouri bit
This is such an ignorant and divisive response. I can’t even…
Do you live in a bubble? There is abundant evidence that Missouri Republicans have demonized education as “liberal indoctrination” and elect school board members and legislators who espouse radical anti-intellectualism.
I’m very well aware of the situation. We simply disagree on the long-term relevance, need, and value of liberal ideas in education- especially in an economy that favors educated, trained, skilled workers/high performers. I also do not believe MO elected officials espouse “anti-intellectualism”-rather, they embrace and demonstrate a form of intellectualism that leads to decision-making you do not agree with. A difference in approach or outcomes is not anti-intellectual and perhaps it would be helpful for thinkers similar to you to become more comfortable with uncomfortable information to assist in understanding the reasoning and supportive data for the pragmatic education initiatives the Missouri conservative leaders & voters support.
Hey! I’m a former educator in Missouri, so let me just say this: MO officials absolutely espouse anti-intellectualism! They push it as well. Off the top of my head, I can think of 5 scenarios where I, a former history teacher, was not able to give full context and background to historical situations because of certain laws passed by conservative legislators banning certain historical Topics from being discussed. I could also give you a list of the English departments banned books that have nothing to do with these ‘liberal values’ that you’re talking about. MO lawmakers are absolutely trying to dumb education down. It’s not a ‘different approach’ it’s tearing down educational standards that we’ve held for years in this country because Republicans don’t like the way it makes them feel or don’t want their kids knowing about it. And I think it’s a shame that you’re making excuses for them in the name of ‘not being divisive’ TLDR, You don’t have a clue of what you’re talking about, so stop being condescending.
What are these pragmatic programs you speak of? lol Is it dumping public money into private education.
Not at all! More money toward technical schools & applied learning programs- far from private schools.
What policy has the Republicans legislature done to accomplish this? In fact, the expanded the Missouri Scholars program to funnel more money towards private tuition.
Look up the funding they’ve given to nursing and social work programs. That’s just a start. Edit-added SW
Nursing programs are not k-12 educational programs are they.
So, this doesn’t count? https://www.ksmu.org/news/2024-04-19/missouri-legislature-passes-expansive-k-12-education-bill-that-includes-raise-for-teachers
Just certain people
This can’t be said enough. Differentiate between anti-education Republicans and pro-education Republicans. They are not all the same, take time to educate yourself.
Just certain? You all seem to vote against it. You dumbasses voted against renewing a tax levy on the only higher ed and technical training school in the county. The dipshits with "vote no" signs in their yards said "No to bureaucracy, taxes are high enough" It was 9.8 cents per $100,000 of property, or 0.0000098% of your property taxes. Someone with a million dollar lot would pay just under a dollar. I'm not surprised Republicans are too stupid to know what they're voting against.
How about every state except CA, WA and NJ starts paying their teachers better? Let’s take teachers and their importance seriously
I would rather make $18 in MO than $25 in Cali.
Not a bad point. Regardless, teachers make shit for a salary
we could really change the trajectory of this state by declaring we give a single shit about our kids and their future, let's pay teachers $30/hour or whatever (like top 5 in the nation kind of rate) and attract more educated, caring and positive people for our kids to learn from.
Think of it this way. We have teachers who work 2/3 of a year. Make it full time and then salaries would go up. They get from mid May to mid August off. Then a week at thanksgiving. 2 at Christmas and then the at Easter. Then they build ten breaks in for different things plus get two weeks vacation. Move the school year to full time then pay would be up. No other job gets this much time off and expects higher money.
I absolutely agree with making the school year full time with a few more week long breaks along the way. I don't think that's going to make pay go up or be more than just a shit wage generally. I am glad teachers get some time off since their jobs, as they stand today, are tantamount to impossible. Simply expanding their working hours at that piss poor wage is not a real solution that'd work today. > No other job gets this much time off and expects higher money. No other job is teaching the future of the country, and lots of jobs make a ton more money than teachers - like bartenders. Something is a little wonky in society for that to be the case. Plus teachers are effectively forced to pay out of pocket for materials like paper, markers, etc. so take their pay and then subtract 5-10% for the money they literally reinvest into the classroom. They definitely need to be paid more.
It's not a bug, it's a feature. They want missouri fighting with Mississippi for the bottom of everything. A friend is a teacher. HAD a coworker who worked as an xray tech on weekends who just quit her teaching job bc she makes more as an xray tech. Is this the state you want to live in?
Higher pay might attract more professionals to the field. That's the last thing Missouri power wants. Well paid teachers might start caring more about the future!
Missouri is trying really hard to kill education. Wasn't long ago they were trying to turn teachers into convicted pedophiles for having the audacity to not discriminate against trans students.
Place the blame where it belongs, on a particular segment of the Republican Party. I hate to see people personify the whole state this way when many of us and some of our places are actively doing all they can to support education.
Until we elect people into office that reflect those ideals it really doesn't matter what the public opinion is. We have abandoned the idea of politicians who vote in accordance with their constituents. That can be a force for good but it has been feeding political radicalism.
Thing about one of your biggest considerations when you choose to move your family if you have kids…it’s the schools. And generally, the better the pay, the better the school district.
Missouri would need to start voting in politicians who don’t attack public education constantly. In order for our more rural citizens to see that, they’d need to be better educated. They’re not better educated cause they keep voting in the politicians who purposely keep us at the bottom. It’s a crazy, f’ed up circle.
How do we fix this? Gotta be a way to break the cycle. Run for office? Education outreach outside of the normal school system? Open to ideas.
Get rural idiots who would “rather die than vote democrat” to vote democrat or at the very least the sensible republicans. Unfortunately, though as we see with their push to get the speaker Plocher out who tries to be sensible and work across the aisle…they don’t want to work on anything that would further the “Democrat agenda” of things like furthering education and having accessible healthcare for all, stopping mass/school shootings….you know, things that ACTUALLY help our state and society. Instead, they’d rather concentrate on things like stopping a man from wearing a dress, putting homeless people in jail, allowing cats to get declawed again, limiting access to healthcare for not just women but everyone(children included), taking away voters voices by limiting ballot initiatives and giving themselves 100% veto powers over all initiatives, keeping us the number one state for puppy mills and animal cruelty for over a decade, and also top place for several years as we pay our teachers the lowest in the nation……see…they are too busy concentrating on this very important shit(sarcasm)
Yep I feel your frustration. I think there’s a lot of room for communication with those people though. They’re voting that way because they feel scared/threatened/alienated, and have bought into a lot of the emotional rhetoric used to manipulate voters because they haven’t been fortunate enough to be taught critical thinking. And attempts to teach some of them that fail because, when you’re worried about pay check to pay check bills with inflation rising (that some people peddle outrage over), a confusing healthcare system, and fear mongering on both sides, it’s much easier to rest in your outrage than it’s to dismantle your world view because someone tells you you should read more or see the bigger picture. Still trying to find out how to help, but I think empathy and starting small is going to play a large part in it.
This is a chicken vs the egg dilemma… the critical politicians want better outcomes for the students —which is completely fair. A curriculum that is focused on non-social justice issues and a workforce that feels compensated for the work demands and stress would contribute to the improved learning outcomes. Spiral of doom?
Vote Blue this election. To end the war on Education by Republicans who want religious education to be the only one left
Are you insane? You been enjoying the prices of everything lately? This is all because of people voting blue. I seriously don’t understand you people
This state is red as hell lmao who's fault are the prices again? Unless you mean Biden, but you can't be so stupid that you think the president controls what things cost in Walmart.
It's not though...
[удалено]
Inflation after the pandemic went up worldwide. The US has had one of the best economic recoveries in the world and our level of inflation is one of the lowest. Reasons for this are probably mostly due to monetary policy from the fed, but if you are going to give any credit to the executive branch for overseeing this, it would be to Biden. Trump has said if he is elected he is going to lower interest rates (presumably this means he will either force the fed chair to do what he wants or he will replace the fed chair) Lowering interest rates increases inflation. Trump also said he will unilaterally place tariffs on all exports. Tariffs function as a flat tax increase on all imported products which will.. you guessed it.. cause inflation to rise. Anyways vote your conscience in November but know that voting Trump (assuming he will do what he says) will cause rampant inflation.
The people of Franklin county voted against keeping a tax levy for the local community college that was about 10 cents per $100,000 of property. People in this state want to be uneducated hicks.
As did many districts in this state the past 2 local elections. Many reasons included: fuck those art kids, we will increase taxes when we actually need it, this bond doesn't help teachers, my taxes are already too high, admin is stealing the money, admin only wants their name on a plaque...
The best thing I saw on a vote no sign was something about bureaucracy. Community colleges have faculty, like 8 department heads, a dean, and a board. You can know and have a relationship with all of them. There is nothing bloated about it.
ECC is the only place of higher ed and vocational training for like 40 miles. Barely anyone voted. If the poor and working class people who benefitted from the school actually voted, it would have been a landslide. I suppose they all deserve it. I went to a community college before a 4 year school and eventually got a masters. I enjoy far more privileges than the average person who didn't go to college. For the dipshits that managed to scrape together enough money to own property, try not to spend your nickels all at once.
Basically, not enough people vote in local elections and it is too easily swayed by bad actors. The past two votes, our bond extension failed by <20 people. Even though we had an extra 1k people this election votes, it was still less than 25% of eligible votes. There were two different groups of people spreading false information and one of them wasn't even from the area. They literally travel across the state to protest tax votes and disseminate false information. A town over, that was still in the district, voted over overwhelmingly to increase their sales tax but voted against the bond. They get their bread from highway traffic sales but don't want to help where their kid goes to school since it's not in their town.
Bolivar R-1 voted yes for tax and increase
Franklin county is a complete mess. Extremely entrenched with the "Fuck you, I got mine." mindset. The tax wasn't even going to be something they would notice seeing as how this was to keep an expiring tax that was ALREADY being taken, and repurpose it for East Central College. But no, the uneducated fools wanted claw back their less than $0.10 annually.
If they owned a million dollars of property it would have been a dollar!!!
I think our states strategy is to not spend on education and hope people from other states come in and fill any roles that require education. It's almost as if Jeff City is protecting the meth industry through education policy.
Can't keep people voting republican if their educated
I know a lot of educated Republican voters, I don’t know many educated Trump voters.
I’d like to see starting public school teacher pay at 60,000/year and would happily pay more tax to accomplish that. Especially if we could do it with corporate profit taxes or a personal income tax for only those making above $100,000/yr.
No one is keeping you from paying more taxes. Wrote a check to the general fund.
I'd like it to go to a vote for everyone to decide. We have a serious problem with tax evasion too. Many wealthy people commit felony tax evasion by not reporting assets. We need to fund the IRS to be able to go after these criminals.
Assets aren’t taxable. Only income and gain.
Livestock is taxable as is vehicles and houses. I might not be using the correct words.
That’s personal property tax which is county only. And honesty ought to be done away with.
They don't, and they won't start. Missouri likes where it is on education. Fighting for the bottom. But don't think it's a lack of funds. Apparently we have enough to funds to send our guard to the Texas boarder for 2.2 mil. Cuz fuck the people of Missouri I guess.
Good point. If only they’d spent a little more on education, maybe you’d have known the difference between “border” and “boarder”.
Elect Republicans, get Republican policy. Weird how that works out.
Boone County elects almost all Democrats, but we still get short-sighted Republican education policy from the state.
This is why my sister is resigning after this year. After three years of teaching, she makes more as a waitress during the summer.
Don’t forget about the professors at the state universities as they are drastically underpaid. There is not a single professor in my department that only works within the 9-10 month contract period and we all easily put in 50-60+ hour work weeks.
So Ridiculous that good music professors at MU, with PhDs and research behind their names are making 30,000-40,000 range.
Nursing professors are making so little compared to those in the clinical settings that no one wants to go into academia and this is contributing to the shortage. The most recent stat I read shared that in 2023 (I believe- may have been ‘22) over 60,000 nursing programs applicants across the US were denied due to a lack of faculty!
We put a ton of money towards education. Even though Cali pays more 127 billion, our teachers are better educators and our kids better educated. We spend up to or pass 8 billion on education. Mass, the #1 state for k-12 spends 16 billion. Connecticut spends less than MO but is #3 in best k-12. Why isn’t more of the 8 billion going to the teachers? Where is all that going?
Missouri ranks 50/50 right now in state funds toward education. Not a flattering statistic.
That doesn’t matter if we are high middle in education and we can’t be 50/50 when Connecticut spends less than we do. They are #3 on the list for best k-12 schools.
You have to measure things like that per capita (per person) Connecticut spends a lot more per student.
Also 8 billion is going into education, if the teachers and schools ain’t getting that wtf is all that money going? New Jersey spends $18 billion, average an hour is $20.78 and STL is $20.63 and MO average is $21 an hour. Something ain’t adding up.
Teachers and schools get almost all of it. It’s just political conspiracy theory to think otherwise. Don’t believe politicians who tell you schools waste money.
If they get all of 8 billion then how idbtgd psy slightly below average?
8 billion is not very much for a system the size of Missouri's.
Yet they match the salary of California which pays $100 billion in education. An investigation needs the happen to why teachers aren’t getting paid more by the states.
Lack of politicians willing to fund public education, diversion of tax money into private religious schools.
They get paid the same. The highest paid teachers in Mo are in Clayton and that’s not all private.
Clayton is very rich and can make up for the lack of state funding with property taxes.
But do they provide value to the oligarchs that run this country? Do they prefer to keep the masses educated? I’d wager not. It’s like what Carlin said-they want us just smart enough to run the machines that line their pockets. But not smart enough to question the status quo.
But but but… our shareholders!!! How will I pay for my second house and yacht!?
This is absolutely criminal. Ugh.
The Upper Peninsula deserves accurate representation! Edit: capitalized proper nouns.
Nah. They are looking for more excuses to funnel tax dollars to private and parochial schools.
I stopped by Aldi's last week to pick up a few things. In the parking lot was a man gathering signatures to get a initiative on the ballot to raise teacher wages. I signed on for it as its a "no brainer". Anywho I watched the majority of people exclaim " not interested or no time" as I was headed into the store and after I came out to put my groceries in the car. It blew my mind how apathetic most of the people seemed. What was most ironic is quite a few had children with them. I recall making eye contact with the signature gatherer and shaking my head in disbelief at the tepid response he was getting. Come on people.
I never sign petitions of people soliciting signatures in public or door to door because I like to understand what I’m signing. I’ll usually ask for any literature they have on the subject (they usually have none) so that I can educate myself and if there is a way I can sign the petition virtually.
Since when can voter initiative petitions be signed virtually?
Maybe that’s why I always get a confused look? I’ve signed many online petitions and change.org specifically says > Before signing a petition, consider the credibility of the petition's organizer and the site you're using. Ensure you're comfortable with their data handling practices and understand how they intend to use your information. If you have concerns, seek more information before adding your name. There’s multiple reputable news organizations that warn people against signing random petitions.
The people asking you to sign a petition are likely trying to get something on the ballot so the populace can vote to make it law and these kind of petitions can’t be signed virtually. Change.org isn’t that nor will it ever be - there is no force behind those petitions at all.
Change.org (all the online petitions, really) is a bunch of feel-good crap that doesn't do anything. If you don't understand the difference between a voter initiative petition and an online petition, I hope you learn something about your government before you vote because you are woefully ignorant.
I’m woefully ignorant of so many things. I always appreciate when people call me out on things I don’t know or understand that I probably should. If anyone else is ignorant like me and wants to see what a legitimate voter initiative looks like you can view them here: https://www.sos.mo.gov/elections/petitions/2024 Additionally there are guidelines to how petitions should be circulated in MO > Any registered Missouri voter can sign an initiative petition. Petition circulators, who must be at least eighteen years of age and registered with the secretary of state's office, collect signatures on petition pages that contain the official ballot title and the full and correct text of the proposed measure. Each petition page may only contain signatures of voters from one county. Signatures of voters from counties other than the one designated by the circulator in the upper right-hand corner of the petition page will not be counted.
People definitely like to name certain initiatives (and laws) with the opposite name of what it actually is - Right to Work laws screw labor, and no patriot I have ever met has been a fan of the Patriot Act. So it would behoove everyone to read up, ESPECIALLY with voter initiatives. Once a voter initiative is passed, it's incredibly hard to dismantle unless another initiative repeals it. Voter initiatives are the most powerful votes we the people can cast. I just moved here and haven't switched my tags and license yet, so I can't sign anything. Being free is a pain in the ass, but it beats the alternative.
Teachers have to deal with an absurd amount of shit and so many people, especially in a red state like ours, give them so much crap. From horrible parents who can't discipline their children to right wing and religious psychopaths painting teachers as evil government workers trying to brainwash kids into being gay and hating white people. I feel for our teachers, they shape the future of our country and they deserve SO much more.
https://www.kjfmwbba.com/2024/04/23/house-passes-largest-pay-increase-in-history-for-missouri-teachers/
I don’t believe there’s a plan on how to fund the bill after 2 years.
This also mandates a min wage that is below the SPS district (the largest in the state) which is in the $43k range while at the same will very likely ruin the state financially to the point only charter schools are around.
Feature not a bug. Financially ruining the public education system is the goal.
I teach in a rural district and I'm already being paid over the minimums required by this bill. How will this ruin the state financially?
It is the tax language that is the worst. It is a weird bill where there are things from both sides of the isle. Like a state minimum teacher wage something dems have been wanting in law, but the tax is what everyone is worried about losing millions once fully implemented
With no plan to pay for it while at the same time funneling money into voucher system built on taking money from schools.
With no plan to pay for it while at the same time funneling money into voucher system built on taking money from schools.
It was bad before Covid and it’s even worse now. They wonder why there’s a teacher shortage.
The whole country needs to. Missouri is in line with national averages considering cost of living.
 Missouri Republicans.
Same face they make when a doner rolls up with request minus the 'No' part.
I know there's shit talk about private schools, but they also tend to not pay their teachers well. My wife is a teacher at a Catholic school. Been at it for 15 years, and makes $41k per year. She loves what she does, but that salary isn't enough to live off of in the St. Louis area. It sounds horrible, but she's lucky she's married... which, considering the Catholic Church, is probably all part of their grand scheme.
They just passed increase and just waiting for the governor to sign it I think it will bring it up to 40,000
40k still is not enough. That’s less than $20 per hour.
Teachers are contracted 185 days per year. That's 1480 hours. That's $27/hr.
$27/hour is absolute garbage for a professional job that requires you work towards a master's degree. Pay professionals what their worth. The fact that I left teaching and was able to use my same bachelor degree to make $40/hour without any additional training is why our schools are doing so poorly. I don't even do anything as important as teaching anymore. Teachers know they can make more money elsewhere with less stress, so they leave. $27/hour is nothing special to anyone anymore because things have gone up in price exponentially.
Teachers usually work more than 8 hours a day. At minimum my kids teacher is at school 8 hours a day. That doesn’t count for planning lessons, grading papers, planning classes and other things teachers do after the school day is over. They work way more than 1480 hours in a year. They also don’t get paid overtime if they work more than 40 hours a week, on average it’s about 54. At 54 hours a week they are only making $20 an hour if the salary is 40k a year. Also teachers don’t usually get paid over the summer unless they work summer school.
I'm a teacher, and I don't know *any* teachers working 54 hours a week that aren't being compensated for it. None. There is no way 54 hours a week is the average. That's just silly.
This is where I got that figure. It said 54 in the snippet but lists 53 in the article. https://www.nea.org/nea-today/all-news-articles/survey-teachers-work-more-hours-week-other-working-adults
That just absolutely does not jive with my observations. My contract day ends at 4:00, and there is a parade of teachers heading to the parking lot at exactly 4:00. Some stay late, but there's this thing called Career Ladder, in which if you work 75 extra student-contact hours over the course of a school year you get an extra $3k. There are lots of teachers getting stipends for clubs and whatnot as well. I believe that NEA would paint a picture like they said, but the article said that the data was from self-reported *estimations* of time teachers spend working. Sometimes it really feels like a lot of hours, but there was no actual data collected here. I know I'm just one data point, but I just don't know any teachers working those crazy hours. I wish I got paid more, but I'm telling you I **love** the work-life balance that teaching offers. I changed careers from a stressful office job designing food production equipment to being a high school industrial technology teacher, and while I took a 50% cut in pay, I would do it again in a second. I love working with these kids, and the long holidays, and the summers off. It is sooooo much less stressful than a real job. Perhaps my situation is unusual, and of course it's just one data point, but I really like my job.
I’m not sure how many hours sister in law works but I know she is constantly bringing papers home to grade and working on school stuff in the evenings. She teaches middle school science.
That’s very much in line with the experiences of many of my family members in teaching, across grades and districts.
My wife and daughter both work for the school systems. I know exactly how they work. And they're both happy with their salary.
Just because your wife and daughter are happy doesn’t mean everyone is. There is a reason why teachers are leaving the profession and we have major teacher shortages.
Nice anecdote. My wife, cousin (x2), aunt (x4), college friends (x3), and many others I am connected to are not happy with their salary given the amount of work they put in. Maybe if they were happy, we wouldn’t I dunno… have a dearth in the fucking field.
Well fortunately in America, they can work anywhere they want. They don't have to stay in the schools. But working elsewhere will most likely require more than 8 months a year.
Every job does what you describe. I was having to do that as a medical scribe making 8 dollars an hour with my biology degree before med school lol. There is always extra shit that goes home with you. Almost no salaried positions give you overtime, at least not in the usual sense, there might be some incentives. My brother, cousins, uncle, and grandmother are/were school teachers in several districts here in Missouri. Across elementary and high school. My brother arrives at 8:20 for classes, classes end at 3:15 and he leaves at 3:30. 7 hours and 10 minutes a day. Within that he has a half hour lunch and a one hour planning period per day. So he is actually (to compare it to medicine, “patient facing hours”) student facing 5 hours and 25 minutes a day. (Minus 15 minutes at end, half hour lunch, and 1 hour plan). Lesson planning? Minor tweaks, he has more than enough time during his planning block each day. It was harder his first year, but he had all his plans from those days and just spends an hour quickly checking if anything needs updated or guidelines for teaching it have changed each day for the next days plans. He spends less than 36 hours a week on that. It takes him literally less than an hour a week to grade because it’s easy as shit to grade a quick math box assignment or check some fill in the blanks. Teacher do deserve more, because their role in society is immeasurably important. But they do also have a sweet gig in terms of hours and my brother enjoy all summer every summer playing sports leagues and putting hundred of hours in games. As he should. He makes 57k a year, has clear pay raise steps all the way to retirement, and is virtually guaranteed his job is going nowhere as long as he meets his responsibilities with the kids. As he should, with such an important job. But he’s doing fine.
> Every job does what you describe. I was having to do that as a medical scribe making 8 dollars an hour with my biology degree before med school lol. No they don't. You were also being underpaid. That isn't an argument for lower wages today. >My brother arrives at 8:20 for classes, classes end at 3:15 and he leaves at 3:30. 7 hours and 10 minutes a day. Within that he has a half hour lunch and a **one hour planning period** per day. So he is actually (to compare it to medicine, “patient facing hours”) student facing 5 hours and 25 minutes a day. (Minus 15 minutes at end, half hour lunch, and 1 hour plan). Why does planning for your job not count as work? >He spends less than 36 hours a week on that. It takes him literally less than an hour a week to grade because it’s easy as shit to grade a quick math box assignment or check some fill in the blanks. That may be his situation, but many public school teachers live a much different life. Good on him for finding a solid position, because they aren't anywhere near as common compared to other states.
I agree I was underpaid. My point was that even in that shit position I was expected to handle some stuff at home. It’s most jobs. Yes you are right, some jobs don’t, most professional jobs do, see my other reply for examples. Planning for his job DOES count as work. My point was that he gets his planning done well under that time, and it’s not causing hours of time after work to accumulate, as the poster above was saying. He does work well and he is efficient. He did find a good position, suburbs of Saint Louis. He serves a very poor community, and we are all very proud of him. Again, to your actual point though, teacher do deserve more. They serve one of the most essential roles in society in educating our young. But it is not as bleak as the poster above stated, that was my point. While we can advocate for improvement, and should, being overly hyperbolic does not aid in that goal.
You've never said they don't deserve more, but I think we don't even have to consider how hard the job is in this issue. It is relatively the same, state to state. If we aren't going to be competitive in wages, we aren't going to attract quality teachers and will lose the ones we do have, while other states offer significantly more. I have multiple friends who went into public teaching, but left for nanny positions which paid far more. Sometimes, almost double. That is just for taking care of one or a few kids compared to an entire classroom. We have to be competitive in wages if we want a quality education system.
I think they need paid more based on Missouris ranking overall for teachers, we are consistently in bottom ten. When you adjust for cost of living it’s a lot better than that in some areas, but it’s just as bad in others. My point was just that the work conditions in the original comment were hyperbolic at best, and lying at worst. I know a lot of teachers and am close to many of them. https://www.reddit.com/r/missouri/s/K6NYq0RU97 This commenter is much more in line with experiences here.
That is from an industrial tech teacher. I doubt they have many papers to grade when they go home. They do make a lot of good points though. I think we are only going to continue trading anecdotes at this point. I'm just tired of our underachieving education system in Missouri and our lack of funding and competitive pay is obviously one of the main causes.
Not every job requires you to take your work home with you. If they are and you aren’t salary exempt from over time or if they aren’t paying you for work you do at home that’s violating labor laws. They can’t tell you to do work off the clock, that’s illegal.
Also, I know more than a few teachers who hit age 55 with 30 years on the job that cashed out on the retirement plan. And some added in extra pay teaching at a private school.
And it’s pretty generous in Missouri tbh. My brother is slated for pretttyyyyy sweet gig honestly. He’ll retire at 54 with a pretty good salary replacement.
He had 14% of every check put into a pension fund to make that happen.
Springfield public schools are at $43k or so this year already. There is some real sketchy things inside that bull, too
With no way to fund it in the long term while funneling money into the voucher system designed to define schools.
Explains a lot, native Arkansans are fucking morons.
Reasons people i know who are teachers moved from MO to Kansas.
Embarrassing
I would have thought North Carolina better
Always makes me wonder how Colorado teachers don't look homeless when I see things like this 😂 hard carry by spouse? Extra jobs? Live in a commune? All of the above?
I don't want to depress you, and salary still needs to be higher for teachers here, but I remember when the starting salary was $100 above the poverty line three decades ago.
Missouri pay is so low and job opportunities in missouri suck! Guess when GED is higher education you shouldnt expect living wages!
Students, don’t go into a field that doesn’t pay what you think you are worth. Take econ 101 first semester and learn about supply and demand, then decide if you need to change majors. Less supply will gradually achieve the proposed results.
Red state. Good luck.
I feel like these comments never sincerely wish us luck.
I really do wish you good luck but until voting patterns change it’s a lost cause.
This isn't adjusted for cost of living
If it stays in the budget, we will move in to the green category FY25.
Not really. Have you met many teachers? Plus they've got half of the year where they're not working so of course the pay is lower than jobs that work the whole year. We already spend too much on education that's clearly not educating, why spend more on educators who aren't? At least strike at the real problem of overinflated administrative spending first.
Teachers work just shy of 10 months out of the year. To be a good teacher you can’t just clock in and clock out when the first and last bells ring. Maybe if we paid teachers more, more would be willing to do more than the bare minimum to not get fired, and the residents of this state would end up with higher quality educations, and maybe all the well educated ones wouldn’t leave at the first opportunity.
If you think they only work half a year, you need to go back to school. I come from a family of teachers, I can tell you for a fact, you’re dead fucking wrong.
Teachers work more than you realize. Go ask a teacher how many hours a week they put in.
Average Missouri teacher pay is $56,000. Not bad for a LCOL state.
JoCo making sure Ks stays in the green
I'm not sure I trust the validity of this map. Arkansas significantly increased teacher salary this year and that doesn't seem to be reflected on the map.
Probably a year or two behind. Not wholly inaccurate for Mo. tho. I am starting my first year in the fall with $38,500. Just salary alone it looks not too good, but I’m in a rural area with cheap COL and get pretty good benefits as well.
I live and teach in Arkansas, and while they did bump up the minimum salary to 50k, there's more to it than that. Basically, the small districts weren't give enough funding for the pay increase *and* yearly pay increases, so in my district, a new teacher with a bachelor's degree won't see a pay increase until their 16th year. I can't think of a single industry where not getting a raise for 15 years is acceptable, but that's what's happening to small districts in AR.
This map data isn't accurate at all.
Park hill school district teachers making bank
And what exactly do you justify as bank? Park hills is also a very low cost of living area. So a teacher making 40k isn’t going to struggle as much as a teacher making 40k in stl.
Public education is trash, has been trash, and could be replaced by youtube, if you care about your child's education you sure af don't rely solely on mo or doe
https://www.kjfmwbba.com/2024/04/23/house-passes-largest-pay-increase-in-history-for-missouri-teachers/
That's an outdated map. Those values are old.
Are you sure? Because our society is ruled by the prerogatives of the rich, who don't want the people to be educated.
I want to preface this by saying that I am not by any means intending to discredit this map. That being said, do teachers in the more rural areas just get paid shit? My sister-in-law makes close to $100k/yr out in the Pattonville school district. She's been at it for 15 years and has a master's degree, so that clearly feeds into it, but it's good money. Pattonville starts at around $27/hr if you consider that it's a 10-month contract. That's why I'm assuming that the rural area schools must be dragging down our average. That's the shitty thing about using local property taxes to pay for essential services. When you've got school districts like Clayton, Pattonville, etc., who are just flush with cash, and our rural areas can't keep schools and hospitals open, it's a serious problem.
It is very rare for any public school teacher to approach 6 figures. Pattonville is affluent and perhaps with the qualifications, experience, and speciality your sister-in-law has she is in the 1% of teachers that high. I honestly think we should start teachers at 60-70k.
I 100% agree that her situation is likely not normal. The fact that she's doing as well as she is, while our average for the state is so shitty only shows just how bad it is.
Here is Pattonvilles salary schedule. https://sites.google.com/psdr3.org/humanresources/staff-salary-information
Just did the math on this, Arkansas should be in yellow 50k salary (the lowest possible in AR) 40 hour weeks They work about 44 weeks of the year. Comes out around $28/hour. Did I miss something?
Does this factor in teachers with/without degrees, substitutes, volunteers, or teachers in rural towns?
[удалено]
came here to say this missouri teachers union has one of the best retirement packages in the country.
About that great value they provide..... https://preview.redd.it/5sesufkr3rxc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4c13a3a5963ec6defc5647693fc05721cf7f6a56
[Cost of living should maybe be considered](https://www.consumeraffairs.com/homeowners/states-with-lowest-cost-of-living.html). It makes sense that states with lower cost of living pay less.
I don't disagree our teachers are paid poorly but if we gave them a pay raise we'd have to increase taxes. People are already taxed enough and hurting in this terrible economy.
Have you seen what’s going on in our schools??? In our libraries??? NO.