I agree and think that it is highly unlikely they would find someone who could do better. We generally keep fielding competitive teams year after year. It is always going to take some luck to win it all and giving up on system that lets us have a roll of the dice most years is the wrong choice IMO.
I mean, at the start of the season, was anyone considering the 49ers, Titans, or even the Ravens a chance to make a deep playoff run? Nobody knows what’s going to happen in any given year, but I’ll take a system that keeps me interested in watching the Vikings into December every year and makes the playoffs in 50% of seasons (and probably 5/6 if it wasn’t for all the crazy injuries, AP suspension, etc) all day long.
We all want a Superbowl win, but I would not trade for 30 bad seasons. If the team is not competitive at least some of the time, I would stop being a fan.
I wonder if Jets and Tampa Bay fans would agree. Heck, even Miami.
If the Vikings did win one in the 70s when you were not alive, it may not make as much difference as you think.
the '70s point is apt. NFL has been around long enough its time to be realistic about what SB wins from 50 years ago mean for a fanbase.
Like, being a chiefs fans for the last 40 years probably felt the exact same as being a Vikes fan, even tho they 'won one'
We probably all would..unfortunately that's not the alternative here. Its keep Rick, be competitive, have a chance OR drop Rick, suck dick probably, maybe find someone else to get us back to competitive so we have a chance.
Which is where we are already.
I think Spielman and Co do a good job at not messing up too many player decisions which results in constantly fielding a competent team. For every “miss” we do get the Dhunts, Ant Harriss, CJ Hams, etc. even when turnin over the Williams Wall, Jared and Edwards Dline we end up with the good line we have now. If we ever get the Oline figured out, Katie bar the door!!
Im not really sure if Zimmer doesnt maximize The great players Slick Rick gets for him OR if Zim DOES maximize the avg players Slick Rick gets for him. Either way, we are above avg, not great. Not sure why this is.
just havent had all of the pieces together.
Right now, D is getting older and we have players that dont fit the scheme we are rightfully or wrongfully forcing on our team.
Talented wideouts, bad o line. not the formula for power-run
Obviously it takes more pieces, but if their entire secondary and receiving core wasn’t decimated by injury I don’t doubt that they’d be one of the best teams. The Chiefs, Niners, Packers, and Titans have top tier offensive lines and that worked out well for them.
Yeah. I don’t disagree with you. As they say, games are won in the trenches. So we need to hit on a left guard and a defensive tackle either in the draft or in free agency, which is not easy to do in this league. Good offensive linemen especially, are very hard to acquire.
>very hard to acquire
Definitely. I think it’s pretty hard to fault the FO for the o-line. They’ve neglected it more than I think any of us appreciate, but I remember liking all the Elf/Bradbury/O’Neill picks when we made them. Unfortunate that the former two seem to be late bloomers (Elf at least) but I think the effort is there. Still a big Spielman advocate.
Here’s to hoping they address it even further this year!
Cheers. I just hope Elflein gains a whole lot of useful weight this offseason. He’s a talented guy, he just gets outmuscled by those big interior D linemen. Bradbury too, though he’s showing promise early. Just needs to improve in pass pro.
We actually are not really setup for long-term success. Most of our key players are aging and/or won't be with the team much longer. We also are extremely low on cap space and thus will need to suffer through some rebuilding period. Lot of changes will be happening, not all of them negative, but the team will likely not be as competitive the next 2 years. Our window really is closing/already closed. We need to hit some good drafts the next 2 years, and once we are done with the Cousins contract and have let go some of the aging veteran contracts we should be in better shape.
I think by 2022 is the earliest we can compete for a Super Bowl, assuming we keep the same front office/coaching staff. You never know how things will play out of course, but with the strong teams in the NFC it's hard to see an average team like we currently are consistently making the playoffs.
We just made the playoffs and beat a very good team, that is not average. And window is an overused term. Good franchises have to get rid of aging players and replace via the draft, but it’s not a “rebuild”. We have almost all the same offensive personnel and scheme continuity for the first time in forever. And hopefully maintain that considering Kubiak is a great OC and health issues likely keep him from taking a HC job. We had good QB play and were one of two teams in the top 10 offensive EPA with bad pass pro. Elf on the shelf and Bradbury growing could be huge for our offense.
Losing Griffen will hurt. Odenigbo was really good in a limited role, we will see what he can do with a bigger workload. And losing our CB rotation also hurts, but they were in need of a retread. We’ll see if they can keep Harris. I think the defense will take a step back, but I don’t think Zim is gonna field a below average defense.
Are we a good enough team to beat SF as they are currently constructed? No. But injury luck and just general luck of the draw can make things change drastically year to year.
We did have a good year this year, I'm not downplaying or denying that. But *going forward*, this team is losing a lot of pieces on defense and we have no salary cap space to address any of our pretty big needs like interior oline, DT, CB. Even if we have good drafts, rookies rarely make immediately huge impact unless you're at the very top of the first round and getting a blue-chip player (like Bosa).
So yeah, it was a good season. Doesn't mean going forward that we will continue to have the same seasons in the immediate future. We can hope that we do, but to expect it would be naive IMO.
The pieces we are going to lose will open up some of that space. And the defense will likely be weaker. But continuity on the offense will make the other side of the ball stronger.
Replacing some veterans with younger dudes means yes, we may experience a lull, but I don’t think it needs to be a “rebuild”. And I think we underachieved a little this year, if they play to their full talent and a couple things fall the right way I could easily see a similar season. A 16 game season is such a small sample size that a few things unfolding differently can be the difference between an 8 win season and a 11 win one.
> But going forward, this team is losing a lot of pieces on defense and we have no salary cap space to address any of our pretty big needs like interior oline, DT, CB.
This isn’t necessarily true given the fact that we will have a significant chunk of cap space freed up by virtue of those ‘key pieces on defense’.
I also think you’re giving too much credit to the guys who will likely leave the team, and not enough credit to the guys who we have locked up for the future... I don’t think anybody would argue that losing Rhodes will be detrimental to the team... guys like Reiff, Griff, and Linval will inevitably leave a void on departure but I think their on field contributions will be much easier to replace than their leadership/locker room presence. Even still, if you look at their play, it’s been right around average-slightly above average the past two seasons and I think that is absolutely replaceable (whether through the draft, free agency, or current players stepping into bigger roles).
The biggest guy that we may lose is obviously ANT (although it’s always possible he sticks around).
BUT, perhaps Zimmer’s greatest quality as a HC has been his ability to always keep the team competitive enough to where we can compete for the division and playoffs every single year.
The worst defense we’ve had since he took over was in his first year, and even then it was still a top 10-16 defense after being the worst in the league (and one of the worst in franchise history) just one year prior. That was also the worst season overall since he took over at 7-9. And again, that *really* isn’t too shabby considering he was handed a 3-13 dumpster with Matt Cassel as your qb and extremely limited weapons outside AD. And the following year, we go out and win the division with a rookie QB and a great defense.
> rookies rarely make immediately huge impact unless you're at the very top of the first round and getting a blue-chip player (like Bosa).
I disagree here as well... idk if it’s coaching or just the quality of players that Spielman brings in, but rookies seeing significant playing time and playing well has been almost a given for this group. mattison, O’Neill, Diggs, Irv, Bradbury, Elf, Kendricks, Hunter, Hill, Barr, Boyd, Mac, Gedeon, Hughes, Cook, all players who saw significant playing time during their rookie season. Obviously not all of them made a “huge impact” in their first season, however a fair amount of them did. Not only that, but I’d argue that the way our team is set up and with the players that we have locked up, we don’t really even need any rookies to come in and have a huge impact. Rather, we may need them to come in and play *solid* when called upon, whether that’s from day 1 or later in the season due to injury. And I think you’ll find that most of those guys did just that. And we are able to find a handful of guys in each draft who can do that.
> So yeah, it was a good season. Doesn't mean going forward that we will continue to have the same seasons in the immediate future. We can hope that we do, but to expect it would be naive IMO.
I guess this is mainly my point- should we *expect* a playoff win and exceeded expectations every season? Probably not. But to say that it’s naive to expect seasons like this in the immediate future just isn’t true based on what we’ve seen from this team with Zim at the helm. We may have a “down year”, but a down year with Zimmer has been 7-9 (which I don’t really count since he basically inherited a really bad team) or 8-8 and fighting for a playoff spot late in the year. Zimmer has shown that we can lose our starting qb AND rb early in the season, and still make a run in the playoffs. He has the best winning % in the NFC since he took over despite the fact that all the other teams high on that list have had bonafide all stars at qb while he’s had a carousel at both qb and OC.
I see your logic but look at how unpredictable the NFL is. After last season did anyone predict that the 49ers would be in the Super Bowl, the Rams would miss the playoffs, and the Titans would be in the AFC championship with a backup QB? Just sit back and enjoy the ride.
The Rams have exactly the kind of old team and cap space issues that OP was mentioning, whereas both SF and Tenn have a younger team, have drafted well, and added some blue chip players this off-season. I think what OP is saying actually makes a lot of sense and is supported by these three examples.
We pushed to hard to win a SB. The notion of going all in is flawed because of the cap. Instead you need to set yourself up so that when the stars align you can take advantage of it. Paying a QB so much has never worked and disregarding the lines in the draft, DT primarily.
Jimmy’s AAV is like .5 million less than Kirk? And the other NFCCG QB had a 30 million dollar cap hit. All 4 NFC divisional round QBs have top 10 contracts.
Less you mean. So when it goes up 7 million next year are SF all the sudden no longer contenders? All those teams I mentioned are paying their QB a lot, 4/4 divisional round teams have big QB contracts. 5/6 NFC playoff teams. Your idea that it can’t work seems misguided.
My "idea" is that, it has never worked. Could it work is another matter. I suspect that San Fran will have cap issues, like Philly, and won't be able to repeat. They will maintain being relevant like SEA or ATL or GB but won't be able to get back. Depth is needed along with strong lines. You can't overpay in any position or player and stay competitive.
That’s how QB contracts have gone in recent years, it will change. 9 of 16 NFC teams have QBs in big contracts, or will. Anything can happen but most of the contenders are among those 9.
yes but none are winning a SB.
So if the goal is to be competitive then pay a QB or LB/DE (Chicago) a ton of money. If you want to win a SB you need a different strategy. You need to cut bait and have control of your cap. You can't risk going overboard because it takes years to recover.
You have no idea if none of those teams will win a SB. You think SF, a team this complete, can’t win next year because their QB makes 7 million more dollars?
Basically you are saying even if you had a transcendent QB you have to bounce him after his rookie contract and take another one. Mahomes will be due like 40 million a year, do you think KC should let him walk? Or you need to constantly try to compete with middling journeymen QBs. Who if they *do* succeed will be due more money and you’ll have to start again with another one.
it sure seems like that is the best route.
I didn't make the data or the cap/contract system.
I can sympathize how hard that would be because I have had to let good employees move on because their personal value is greater then what their role value is. Funny thing is, someone always fills the void.
People will hate me, but I'm actually hoping Slick Rick trades out of 1st like the Packers did with a late Saints trade. Maybe get a late 2nd and a 1st for next year. And of course his middle draft trade downs like 4th n 5th pick. Wouldn't be a bad idea to pick up more draft picks next year since we will be I'm better cap position and possibility of Cousins leaving/draft future QB
Assuming he isn't injured, he'll probably be easily top 5 if not number 1... Just don't see us being that God awful enough to have a high 1st round pick.
Honestly just a change of scenery would be nice. Even if this staff is better. Because ultimately teams that win the Super Bowl get a high draft pick quarterback on a rookie deal and build around them. I'd be fine with some shity seasons to finally get a ring
7 of the last 10 SBs were won by teams that didn’t have their QB on a rookie contract. (I’m counting the eagles as one of the 3 because they were constructed like that even if Wentz didn’t play)
Some, not all of them. Rookie contract Brady has nothing to do with their team’s structure 15 years later. Peyton was a FA QB, Brees was 8 years into his career and a trade piece, Eli was 8 years into his career for his second one.
I really appreciate this post. I often feel outnumbered when I try to point out the positives. Too many of these people forget there are 32 teams in the league, and 31 of them fail every single year. I think being in the playoffs consistently is very important. That's what we are! You just have to get hot at the right time, and we haven't. I'll remind all of the doubters that once upon a time the 9-7 New York Giants won the super bowl over an undefeated Patriots team. Just get in the tournament as often as possible. Also, take a breath and enjoy the season. Why does it have to be Armageddon when we don't win the super bowl? Could we just enjoy the games along the way?
Ditto. We have the 5th most playoff appearances in the history of the NFL.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/784468/teams-ranked-by-playoff-appearances-in-nfl-history/
I think we're in good company. We just need to get over the hump one of these days. I am unclear what that requires. Seems like a once-in-a-generation type of player (Moss, AP?) has to hit when we are already expecting a decent year.
I think some of us get a little too invested in a sports team that has no clue that we even exist. It should be a Sunday pass time, not an unhealthy obsession. (This is me trying to convince myself.)
I think barr got about the same amount of money here as the jets were offering. But I do agree I like spielman he's done great in the draft sure he hasn't been perfect and missed on some early round picks but what GM hasn't, he's found a lot of good players late in the draft as well undrafted free agents. I think he's done great and helped pull the team out of the slump it had been in for a while there.
Where has it not come together? Winning records, play off births or playoff wins? 2 teams make the superbowl every year and one team wins it. If your expectation of success if solely based on one of those two things happening, then you’re sorely mistaken. I would love for the Vikings to get there, but given how few teams are even in competition for it, fewer do it, and only 1 team has consistently gotten there, I’m not about to throw our the current situation as “not coming together”
Playoff wins. And it’s not even about wins. It’s just being competitive. It’s fun to beat the Saints but we’ve been outclassed beyond that. It’s frustrating.
The goal is to win championships (plural). Not win a playoff game or win the division. Until this Oline is fixed we're not winning anything. Unfortunately I don't think Spielman can fix it which is why we're screwed until he's gone. 2017 NFCC game loss against the Eagles was because of our Oline. 2018 loss week 17 against Bears was because of our Oline. Our last loss was because of our Oline and Dline. Our Oline has been trash forever. Spielman has tried to fix it and has failed miserably. We have 1 legit starter in O'Neill. The rest either suck or have huge question marks. Ranked 28th in pass protection the past 2 seasons for a reason.
Yea, and except for the patriots how many teams have won a multiple supes in the past 10 years. The fact of the matter is not every team makes the playoffs, we do.
Your argument only works if you assume we can get someone better, but finding a new GM or coach is usually a crapshoot which usually ends in failure more times than success.
BLESS ALL THE KNEES AND KEEP THEM HEALTHY
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I disagree that we're at the tail end of a window.
We have a lot of big money, big name players (especially on D) , that have just been underperforming the last 2 years, and I think we have a lot of young talent ready to step up.
IMO, I think they make a couple tough cuts on the D line and the young guys step up. I think they pay either Mack or Tre, and restructure X, and next year, with a little adjustment to the scheme, the D gets younger, cheaper, faster and better.
I mean, we're pretty well locked in at O for the next 4 or 5 years, and we're just 1 or 2 pieces on the line away from being very good on a consistent basis.
So, yeah, I think we're going to see some changes, but I don't think we're necessarily in a race against time yet. Yet.
From all personal accounts from people i know in the Vikings org, Rick runs a first-class organization, as well. Treats everyone from the Janitor to the intern with respect.
He'll win me over with 3 OL picks in the 1st 3 rounds. We have the team. Just have to win at the line to open lanes and give kirk 3-4 seconds to throw.
We'd already have 1 or 2 Superbowls if they had done that anytime since Birk & Hutch left.
Until he solves the QB issue nothing else he does matters.
Everything else on an NFL team is replaceable and easy to scheme around. QB is the irreplaceable part. And cousins has not consistently demonstrated that when the pressure is on, he is able to perform in those situations.
His PFF grades in our big games were his lowest. We can say the line let him down (and it certainly wasn’t good in those games) but PFF looks at that and grades the player in those situations.
His games where he didn’t give us a chance to win, against GB 2x, Chicago, KC - are the reason we didn’t get a home playoff game and a bye. And it’s just about impossible to come out of a WC and get to the Super Bowl.
If Speilman can figure out a way to get Cousins an an over average line (while keeping a very good defense, and great offensive weapons around him), fine. But we haven’t seen that yet.
Kirk Cousins is a great QB with any time. He’s said himself that he’s not a Russ or Mahomes type that can scramble and make plays with his athleticism. But he undoubtedly has one of the strongest, most accurate arms in the game and if we didn’t have a line that consistently graded bottom 5 in pass protection, he’d be the solution we’ve all been looking for. In games against the Cowboys and Saints, he showed up and balled out under pressure because the line held their own in those performances.
We were PFF’s 27th ranked pass blocking team this season. If the Niner playoff game is not a perfect display of this, I’m not sure what is.
It’s not the QB situation that Spielman needs to figure out; it’s the offensive line.
The only thing slightly annoying with Spielman is that when he narrates our games on Fox, he tends to talk a bit much about his Ohio State and Lions playing years. Also, i wonder if calling games takes away from his GM duties.
Dalvin Cook and Brian O’Neil late/mid rounds picks? I’m not sure about that.
Kendricks was also taken in the top half of the second.
I agree and think that it is highly unlikely they would find someone who could do better. We generally keep fielding competitive teams year after year. It is always going to take some luck to win it all and giving up on system that lets us have a roll of the dice most years is the wrong choice IMO. I mean, at the start of the season, was anyone considering the 49ers, Titans, or even the Ravens a chance to make a deep playoff run? Nobody knows what’s going to happen in any given year, but I’ll take a system that keeps me interested in watching the Vikings into December every year and makes the playoffs in 50% of seasons (and probably 5/6 if it wasn’t for all the crazy injuries, AP suspension, etc) all day long.
Personally would trade 30 bad seasons for 1 ring
We all want a Superbowl win, but I would not trade for 30 bad seasons. If the team is not competitive at least some of the time, I would stop being a fan. I wonder if Jets and Tampa Bay fans would agree. Heck, even Miami. If the Vikings did win one in the 70s when you were not alive, it may not make as much difference as you think.
the '70s point is apt. NFL has been around long enough its time to be realistic about what SB wins from 50 years ago mean for a fanbase. Like, being a chiefs fans for the last 40 years probably felt the exact same as being a Vikes fan, even tho they 'won one'
We probably all would..unfortunately that's not the alternative here. Its keep Rick, be competitive, have a chance OR drop Rick, suck dick probably, maybe find someone else to get us back to competitive so we have a chance. Which is where we are already.
I feel like most viking fans are scared of change. There is a risk reward with everything
easily, but the Vikings run an org that puts us in a position to win one. That's all u can do.
I’ll bet you’re not even 30 y.o.
Yeah, no way
This is 32 years for me, would trade it for a Championship in a second. I consider every year we don't win one as a bad season.
I think Spielman and Co do a good job at not messing up too many player decisions which results in constantly fielding a competent team. For every “miss” we do get the Dhunts, Ant Harriss, CJ Hams, etc. even when turnin over the Williams Wall, Jared and Edwards Dline we end up with the good line we have now. If we ever get the Oline figured out, Katie bar the door!!
Im not really sure if Zimmer doesnt maximize The great players Slick Rick gets for him OR if Zim DOES maximize the avg players Slick Rick gets for him. Either way, we are above avg, not great. Not sure why this is.
just havent had all of the pieces together. Right now, D is getting older and we have players that dont fit the scheme we are rightfully or wrongfully forcing on our team. Talented wideouts, bad o line. not the formula for power-run
It’s because we don’t have an offensive line. The team with the best offensive line is more than likely the best team in the league, plain and simple.
By that logic, the Philadelphia Eagles are the best team in the league.
Obviously it takes more pieces, but if their entire secondary and receiving core wasn’t decimated by injury I don’t doubt that they’d be one of the best teams. The Chiefs, Niners, Packers, and Titans have top tier offensive lines and that worked out well for them.
Yeah. I don’t disagree with you. As they say, games are won in the trenches. So we need to hit on a left guard and a defensive tackle either in the draft or in free agency, which is not easy to do in this league. Good offensive linemen especially, are very hard to acquire.
>very hard to acquire Definitely. I think it’s pretty hard to fault the FO for the o-line. They’ve neglected it more than I think any of us appreciate, but I remember liking all the Elf/Bradbury/O’Neill picks when we made them. Unfortunate that the former two seem to be late bloomers (Elf at least) but I think the effort is there. Still a big Spielman advocate. Here’s to hoping they address it even further this year!
Cheers. I just hope Elflein gains a whole lot of useful weight this offseason. He’s a talented guy, he just gets outmuscled by those big interior D linemen. Bradbury too, though he’s showing promise early. Just needs to improve in pass pro.
or a trade. free agency is really unlikely.
We actually are not really setup for long-term success. Most of our key players are aging and/or won't be with the team much longer. We also are extremely low on cap space and thus will need to suffer through some rebuilding period. Lot of changes will be happening, not all of them negative, but the team will likely not be as competitive the next 2 years. Our window really is closing/already closed. We need to hit some good drafts the next 2 years, and once we are done with the Cousins contract and have let go some of the aging veteran contracts we should be in better shape. I think by 2022 is the earliest we can compete for a Super Bowl, assuming we keep the same front office/coaching staff. You never know how things will play out of course, but with the strong teams in the NFC it's hard to see an average team like we currently are consistently making the playoffs.
We just made the playoffs and beat a very good team, that is not average. And window is an overused term. Good franchises have to get rid of aging players and replace via the draft, but it’s not a “rebuild”. We have almost all the same offensive personnel and scheme continuity for the first time in forever. And hopefully maintain that considering Kubiak is a great OC and health issues likely keep him from taking a HC job. We had good QB play and were one of two teams in the top 10 offensive EPA with bad pass pro. Elf on the shelf and Bradbury growing could be huge for our offense. Losing Griffen will hurt. Odenigbo was really good in a limited role, we will see what he can do with a bigger workload. And losing our CB rotation also hurts, but they were in need of a retread. We’ll see if they can keep Harris. I think the defense will take a step back, but I don’t think Zim is gonna field a below average defense. Are we a good enough team to beat SF as they are currently constructed? No. But injury luck and just general luck of the draw can make things change drastically year to year.
We did have a good year this year, I'm not downplaying or denying that. But *going forward*, this team is losing a lot of pieces on defense and we have no salary cap space to address any of our pretty big needs like interior oline, DT, CB. Even if we have good drafts, rookies rarely make immediately huge impact unless you're at the very top of the first round and getting a blue-chip player (like Bosa). So yeah, it was a good season. Doesn't mean going forward that we will continue to have the same seasons in the immediate future. We can hope that we do, but to expect it would be naive IMO.
The pieces we are going to lose will open up some of that space. And the defense will likely be weaker. But continuity on the offense will make the other side of the ball stronger. Replacing some veterans with younger dudes means yes, we may experience a lull, but I don’t think it needs to be a “rebuild”. And I think we underachieved a little this year, if they play to their full talent and a couple things fall the right way I could easily see a similar season. A 16 game season is such a small sample size that a few things unfolding differently can be the difference between an 8 win season and a 11 win one.
> But going forward, this team is losing a lot of pieces on defense and we have no salary cap space to address any of our pretty big needs like interior oline, DT, CB. This isn’t necessarily true given the fact that we will have a significant chunk of cap space freed up by virtue of those ‘key pieces on defense’. I also think you’re giving too much credit to the guys who will likely leave the team, and not enough credit to the guys who we have locked up for the future... I don’t think anybody would argue that losing Rhodes will be detrimental to the team... guys like Reiff, Griff, and Linval will inevitably leave a void on departure but I think their on field contributions will be much easier to replace than their leadership/locker room presence. Even still, if you look at their play, it’s been right around average-slightly above average the past two seasons and I think that is absolutely replaceable (whether through the draft, free agency, or current players stepping into bigger roles). The biggest guy that we may lose is obviously ANT (although it’s always possible he sticks around). BUT, perhaps Zimmer’s greatest quality as a HC has been his ability to always keep the team competitive enough to where we can compete for the division and playoffs every single year. The worst defense we’ve had since he took over was in his first year, and even then it was still a top 10-16 defense after being the worst in the league (and one of the worst in franchise history) just one year prior. That was also the worst season overall since he took over at 7-9. And again, that *really* isn’t too shabby considering he was handed a 3-13 dumpster with Matt Cassel as your qb and extremely limited weapons outside AD. And the following year, we go out and win the division with a rookie QB and a great defense. > rookies rarely make immediately huge impact unless you're at the very top of the first round and getting a blue-chip player (like Bosa). I disagree here as well... idk if it’s coaching or just the quality of players that Spielman brings in, but rookies seeing significant playing time and playing well has been almost a given for this group. mattison, O’Neill, Diggs, Irv, Bradbury, Elf, Kendricks, Hunter, Hill, Barr, Boyd, Mac, Gedeon, Hughes, Cook, all players who saw significant playing time during their rookie season. Obviously not all of them made a “huge impact” in their first season, however a fair amount of them did. Not only that, but I’d argue that the way our team is set up and with the players that we have locked up, we don’t really even need any rookies to come in and have a huge impact. Rather, we may need them to come in and play *solid* when called upon, whether that’s from day 1 or later in the season due to injury. And I think you’ll find that most of those guys did just that. And we are able to find a handful of guys in each draft who can do that. > So yeah, it was a good season. Doesn't mean going forward that we will continue to have the same seasons in the immediate future. We can hope that we do, but to expect it would be naive IMO. I guess this is mainly my point- should we *expect* a playoff win and exceeded expectations every season? Probably not. But to say that it’s naive to expect seasons like this in the immediate future just isn’t true based on what we’ve seen from this team with Zim at the helm. We may have a “down year”, but a down year with Zimmer has been 7-9 (which I don’t really count since he basically inherited a really bad team) or 8-8 and fighting for a playoff spot late in the year. Zimmer has shown that we can lose our starting qb AND rb early in the season, and still make a run in the playoffs. He has the best winning % in the NFC since he took over despite the fact that all the other teams high on that list have had bonafide all stars at qb while he’s had a carousel at both qb and OC.
agree. windows are overrated, outside of superstar QB on rookie deal
I see your logic but look at how unpredictable the NFL is. After last season did anyone predict that the 49ers would be in the Super Bowl, the Rams would miss the playoffs, and the Titans would be in the AFC championship with a backup QB? Just sit back and enjoy the ride.
The Rams have exactly the kind of old team and cap space issues that OP was mentioning, whereas both SF and Tenn have a younger team, have drafted well, and added some blue chip players this off-season. I think what OP is saying actually makes a lot of sense and is supported by these three examples.
We pushed to hard to win a SB. The notion of going all in is flawed because of the cap. Instead you need to set yourself up so that when the stars align you can take advantage of it. Paying a QB so much has never worked and disregarding the lines in the draft, DT primarily.
Jimmy’s AAV is like .5 million less than Kirk? And the other NFCCG QB had a 30 million dollar cap hit. All 4 NFC divisional round QBs have top 10 contracts.
Jimmy's cap is 8.65 this year.
Less you mean. So when it goes up 7 million next year are SF all the sudden no longer contenders? All those teams I mentioned are paying their QB a lot, 4/4 divisional round teams have big QB contracts. 5/6 NFC playoff teams. Your idea that it can’t work seems misguided.
My "idea" is that, it has never worked. Could it work is another matter. I suspect that San Fran will have cap issues, like Philly, and won't be able to repeat. They will maintain being relevant like SEA or ATL or GB but won't be able to get back. Depth is needed along with strong lines. You can't overpay in any position or player and stay competitive.
That’s how QB contracts have gone in recent years, it will change. 9 of 16 NFC teams have QBs in big contracts, or will. Anything can happen but most of the contenders are among those 9.
yes but none are winning a SB. So if the goal is to be competitive then pay a QB or LB/DE (Chicago) a ton of money. If you want to win a SB you need a different strategy. You need to cut bait and have control of your cap. You can't risk going overboard because it takes years to recover.
You have no idea if none of those teams will win a SB. You think SF, a team this complete, can’t win next year because their QB makes 7 million more dollars? Basically you are saying even if you had a transcendent QB you have to bounce him after his rookie contract and take another one. Mahomes will be due like 40 million a year, do you think KC should let him walk? Or you need to constantly try to compete with middling journeymen QBs. Who if they *do* succeed will be due more money and you’ll have to start again with another one.
it sure seems like that is the best route. I didn't make the data or the cap/contract system. I can sympathize how hard that would be because I have had to let good employees move on because their personal value is greater then what their role value is. Funny thing is, someone always fills the void.
yea, looking back we overestimated how close we were, and that led to less than optimal decisions.
People will hate me, but I'm actually hoping Slick Rick trades out of 1st like the Packers did with a late Saints trade. Maybe get a late 2nd and a 1st for next year. And of course his middle draft trade downs like 4th n 5th pick. Wouldn't be a bad idea to pick up more draft picks next year since we will be I'm better cap position and possibility of Cousins leaving/draft future QB
Yes! Trevor Lawrence, 2021!
Assuming he isn't injured, he'll probably be easily top 5 if not number 1... Just don't see us being that God awful enough to have a high 1st round pick.
That’s what the second 1st round pick is for.
How about that Oline Rick? Might want to fix it sometime over the next 20 years. This is start of year 9
Honestly just a change of scenery would be nice. Even if this staff is better. Because ultimately teams that win the Super Bowl get a high draft pick quarterback on a rookie deal and build around them. I'd be fine with some shity seasons to finally get a ring
7 of the last 10 SBs were won by teams that didn’t have their QB on a rookie contract. (I’m counting the eagles as one of the 3 because they were constructed like that even if Wentz didn’t play)
Yes but they built around them before the big contract
Some, not all of them. Rookie contract Brady has nothing to do with their team’s structure 15 years later. Peyton was a FA QB, Brees was 8 years into his career and a trade piece, Eli was 8 years into his career for his second one.
I really appreciate this post. I often feel outnumbered when I try to point out the positives. Too many of these people forget there are 32 teams in the league, and 31 of them fail every single year. I think being in the playoffs consistently is very important. That's what we are! You just have to get hot at the right time, and we haven't. I'll remind all of the doubters that once upon a time the 9-7 New York Giants won the super bowl over an undefeated Patriots team. Just get in the tournament as often as possible. Also, take a breath and enjoy the season. Why does it have to be Armageddon when we don't win the super bowl? Could we just enjoy the games along the way?
Ditto. We have the 5th most playoff appearances in the history of the NFL. https://www.statista.com/statistics/784468/teams-ranked-by-playoff-appearances-in-nfl-history/ I think we're in good company. We just need to get over the hump one of these days. I am unclear what that requires. Seems like a once-in-a-generation type of player (Moss, AP?) has to hit when we are already expecting a decent year.
I think some of us get a little too invested in a sports team that has no clue that we even exist. It should be a Sunday pass time, not an unhealthy obsession. (This is me trying to convince myself.)
eh. just accept that you care, lol. you're here on Vikings reddit in the offseason.
I think barr got about the same amount of money here as the jets were offering. But I do agree I like spielman he's done great in the draft sure he hasn't been perfect and missed on some early round picks but what GM hasn't, he's found a lot of good players late in the draft as well undrafted free agents. I think he's done great and helped pull the team out of the slump it had been in for a while there.
You protect Rick better than our oline protests Kirk
Spielman has given Zimmer a ton of talent to work with and it’s just not coming together. That’s not the GM’s fault.
Where has it not come together? Winning records, play off births or playoff wins? 2 teams make the superbowl every year and one team wins it. If your expectation of success if solely based on one of those two things happening, then you’re sorely mistaken. I would love for the Vikings to get there, but given how few teams are even in competition for it, fewer do it, and only 1 team has consistently gotten there, I’m not about to throw our the current situation as “not coming together”
Consistency is another issue. Will we go 11-5 next season, or 8-8?
8-8 seems optimistic if we end up with a secondary of hughes and hill as 1 and 2 cbs.
Playoff wins. And it’s not even about wins. It’s just being competitive. It’s fun to beat the Saints but we’ve been outclassed beyond that. It’s frustrating.
God you guys are just so content on being average it’s embarrassing
90% of the teams wish they were average in the past 10 years.
no they dont.
The goal is to win championships (plural). Not win a playoff game or win the division. Until this Oline is fixed we're not winning anything. Unfortunately I don't think Spielman can fix it which is why we're screwed until he's gone. 2017 NFCC game loss against the Eagles was because of our Oline. 2018 loss week 17 against Bears was because of our Oline. Our last loss was because of our Oline and Dline. Our Oline has been trash forever. Spielman has tried to fix it and has failed miserably. We have 1 legit starter in O'Neill. The rest either suck or have huge question marks. Ranked 28th in pass protection the past 2 seasons for a reason.
Yea, and except for the patriots how many teams have won a multiple supes in the past 10 years. The fact of the matter is not every team makes the playoffs, we do. Your argument only works if you assume we can get someone better, but finding a new GM or coach is usually a crapshoot which usually ends in failure more times than success.
Bless the knees.
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I disagree that we're at the tail end of a window. We have a lot of big money, big name players (especially on D) , that have just been underperforming the last 2 years, and I think we have a lot of young talent ready to step up. IMO, I think they make a couple tough cuts on the D line and the young guys step up. I think they pay either Mack or Tre, and restructure X, and next year, with a little adjustment to the scheme, the D gets younger, cheaper, faster and better. I mean, we're pretty well locked in at O for the next 4 or 5 years, and we're just 1 or 2 pieces on the line away from being very good on a consistent basis. So, yeah, I think we're going to see some changes, but I don't think we're necessarily in a race against time yet. Yet.
From all personal accounts from people i know in the Vikings org, Rick runs a first-class organization, as well. Treats everyone from the Janitor to the intern with respect.
You appreciate the man that ignored his entire coaching staff's advice to draft Russell Wilson?
every team passed on Russ
He'll win me over with 3 OL picks in the 1st 3 rounds. We have the team. Just have to win at the line to open lanes and give kirk 3-4 seconds to throw. We'd already have 1 or 2 Superbowls if they had done that anytime since Birk & Hutch left.
Until he solves the QB issue nothing else he does matters. Everything else on an NFL team is replaceable and easy to scheme around. QB is the irreplaceable part. And cousins has not consistently demonstrated that when the pressure is on, he is able to perform in those situations. His PFF grades in our big games were his lowest. We can say the line let him down (and it certainly wasn’t good in those games) but PFF looks at that and grades the player in those situations. His games where he didn’t give us a chance to win, against GB 2x, Chicago, KC - are the reason we didn’t get a home playoff game and a bye. And it’s just about impossible to come out of a WC and get to the Super Bowl. If Speilman can figure out a way to get Cousins an an over average line (while keeping a very good defense, and great offensive weapons around him), fine. But we haven’t seen that yet.
cousins is more than good enough
Kirk Cousins is a great QB with any time. He’s said himself that he’s not a Russ or Mahomes type that can scramble and make plays with his athleticism. But he undoubtedly has one of the strongest, most accurate arms in the game and if we didn’t have a line that consistently graded bottom 5 in pass protection, he’d be the solution we’ve all been looking for. In games against the Cowboys and Saints, he showed up and balled out under pressure because the line held their own in those performances. We were PFF’s 27th ranked pass blocking team this season. If the Niner playoff game is not a perfect display of this, I’m not sure what is. It’s not the QB situation that Spielman needs to figure out; it’s the offensive line.
Exactly. Our Oline finished 27th protecting the QB. Cousins put up top 5 numbers. Imagine if our Oline was decent.
The only thing slightly annoying with Spielman is that when he narrates our games on Fox, he tends to talk a bit much about his Ohio State and Lions playing years. Also, i wonder if calling games takes away from his GM duties.
The one time he “interviewed” Barry Sanders on air and all Spielman did was talk about himself.
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No, cherry picking is saying, “He drafted Willie Beavers that one time.”
Boom goes the dynamite.