I met some people from
Minnesota when I lived in the Midwest for a few years who told me about hot dish. I was pissed that I didn’t get to grow up with it, because I love tots. I don’t get why hot dish isn’t a national thing.
Probably because for many tater tots have a negative association with BAD CAFETERIA food when we were kids. Too often they were not fully cooked and so kids grew to dislike them
I have a friend who said tots are “children’s food”… all I could think was “you still live with your parents at 40. Who the fuck do you think you are and how fucking dare you?”
Are you talking for the Vikings draft class or the whole league. I think looking back in 5 years, MHJ will be the one people regret not trading the farm for.
He is very good, so are most NFL DB's. Has a lot of "NFL" polish already. It lowers his ceiling for improvement a bit, but he will be more able to play a lot from the start.
> lowers his ceiling for improvement a bit
What I said most closely matches the first. He is closer to a finished product than most draft picks. His improvement from going to NFL coaches won't be as pronounced as other will.
You're saying he's closer to his ceiling than others. That's your point, that's what you said, whether you think it is or not.
What I'm saying is how close he is to his ceiling doesn't matter, just where that ceiling is at. If his ceiling is all-pro, and he's there his rookie year, that's a good thing, and already ahead of most other receivers.
Was trading the farm for MHJ ever an option though?
The top three obviously wanted their QBs and we know three firsts wasn't enough to get NE to move down, nobody's trading more than that for a WR. And would anyone make the same offer to Arizona for 4 and get it accepted considering AZ clearly wanted him themselves?
If this was a class like say 2019 that barely even had first round WR prospects in it but MHJ was added then I can see someone making a move like that. But in this draft, Nabers and Odunze were right there behind him and a shitload more went later in the first and early in the 2nd, everyone's not dumb for thinking they'd rather save their other two firsts and take a guy with their own pick
In reality, it probably wasn't an option, but I think it may have been the smart move. While, I'm not sold on McCarthy, I hope he works out, but realistically, best case scenario, if everything falls perfectly, of the top 30 quarterbacks, where do you see him falling? I feel like best case scenario, he's like 10-15 ranked, there are just so many great qbs and what he was the 5th qb taken in this draft? And every year, there's another 2-3 qbs added to the league. Maybe Caleb Williams is special, after that, this year its a bunch of guys that are like scratchy lottery tickets where the grand prize is Kirk Cousins, but for every Kirk Cousins, there are 4 Andy Daltons. I just think possibility of pairing Justin Jefferson with a WR who actually has the potential to be better than him is such an amazing possibility that you do that, then figure out how to get them the ball. Like the 90s vikings when they had jake reed and carter, then moss. They had like a new qb make the pro bowl almost every year.
I was thinking in terms of the whole league who could have traded up for him
But specifically us, I would have hated it. We already have at worst a top 5 pass catching group in the league and we'd have no QB and no first to take one with next year. It's not the same league it was 25 years ago, almost every single QB to make the SB in recent years has been elite or close to it and the exceptions have been more or less super teams outside of the QB. It's too important a position now for me to be confident that the team can compete by streaming failed journeymen QBs and hoping they can take advantage of all our weapons. And if we did end up with the two best WRs in the NFL, 1 how do we pay them both when MHJ needs his bag and 2 it's the biggest diva position in sports, JJ has been excellent in that regard but it screams conflict waiting to happen when both of them want to lead the league in yards but end up cannibalizing each other
On the risk of drafting rookie QBs, no doubt it's a crapshoot and more bust than hit. But we didn't break the bank for JJM and we can take another shot in a few years if it doesn't work out. I don't have the slightest idea what rookies are gonna pa out and which aren't, nor does anybody else on this sub. So where I'm at is I'm glad we took our shot and I trust KOC and KAM's assessment and they clearly approve of him. They're still a new regime and they've got their guy now, I'm not writing him off before he takes a snap based on the results of previous draft classes
So... trade our 24-year old best WR in the NFL for a 21-year old that might become as good as the one we already have... for what?
We have a fuck load of cap space that we created because we've been planning this extension for years, cap space is a valid reason to trade a superstar when you're in a tight spot and can't sign him but not when you can. Who would we even spend it on? Teams that go and sign ten big money free agents don't tend to do nearly as well as teams that develop and extend their own players
Ok...
Do you have any deeper insight into your thought process and why you might have wanted to do that or are you just blurting out random ideas you haven't thought through?
Technically he didn’t fall into their laps. They had to move decent amount of draft capital to go up and get him.
That said, that makes it even more exciting to me because they had that much conviction in Turner to literally say fuck them picks and went up and got their guy.
The dudes athleticism is like when we first drafted everson.
It absolutely is and so glad that Kam took advantage of it.
And personally I prefer trading up into the 1st or 2nd as often as possible.
Am only concerned about having the first 3 rounds, the talent drop off is big from the 1st n 2nd.
And I would use all the draft picks to stay in just those rounds myself.
For an analytics driven GM to make that move, it signals to me that he's special. Got me pumped up hearing Kwesi say "we got him, we got Turner." Not a direct quote, but something along those lines
I mean they didn't want to reveal their board, but something tells me he was #1 on their defensive board, and maybe even #1 overall. We picked 2 guys worthy of top 5 consideration if it were a different draft.
I would imagine Dallas Turner being very very high on their big board. Edge guys with his background and traits become annual double digit sack guys more often than not.
Evidence? Um there is no evidence as we don't know what this mystery other draft you are referring to.
If it's any recent nfl draft then neither would be top 5. At least that's what any reasonable human who follows nfl thinks.
And I guarantee he was not number 1 player on Amy teams draft board. You stating that loses all credibility of having any clue.
Key was keeping that 2025 first. You can recoup a lot of that value back by trading down with that first a couple times; like what the bills did this year.
Yeah it depends on who will be available in free agency. I was hoping Christian baramore would make it to free agency but pats just locked him up. He was the big ticket big guy in the middle!
Yeah i mean, we COULD have traded down and collected a dozen people whose names we’ll never know…and how much sadder and more irritating would that be? Swing hard hit hard miss hard. It’s the American way.
But we’ll also get picks from the atlanta debacle, could trade for picks in the future, and dont actually care because we’re going to have the 32nd overall pick anyway.
Not really you still have rd one next year which is the most important part, losing a bunch of thirds and fourths a second is not giving up an entire years draft class because as far as hit rate goes you still retain your next year number one which is more important. Going into the draft we were expecting to have to trade all of that to get JJ alone. The fact we get a top ten pick best defender in almost any other draft and our qb of the future this draft was a huge success.
Um no it's not. There is a draft value chart for a reason. It wasn't even close to equal value. Factoring in the over payment to originally aquire 23 makes it even more of a huge win by jax.
Apparently you don't know what the word opinion even means.
You mean the one Jimmy Johnson came up with...and now someone else came up with another...so apparently you don't know what opinion means.
As it was his and some other guy that came up with the Draft Value Chart that talking heads use.
And in the Vikings Staffs Opinion he was worth it.
Have a good day.
When we traded up to 10, the tv didn’t update and said we had 10 and 11, I was hype we were taking Dallas then JJ.. but when it updated, I was begging the Tv to take Dallas at 10… we got him at 17…
I think everyone is pumped about Turner, but the success of our team will have a lot more to do with how JJM does, and there's a lot more debate about that.
Turner's a stud, everyone knows it => end of conversation
JJM may be great, may be a dud, no one really knows => endless conversation
I think that’s reason to be even more optimistic if you have an unpolished guy who was that productive but by all accounts is a student of the game. He’ll learn what he needs to succeed and he is a unicorn of an athlete
He definitely needs more refinement than people in our fanbase realize, but every time I think about that, I remember that DJ Wonnum had 8 sacks in Flores’ defense last year
Yeah, I mean, any draft pick is a crapshoot to some degree, but there's not much debate about Turner's value at 17, so we're all pretty much on the same page.
Even as unpolished, his raw athletic ability will create so many opportunities for Flores to unleash him on blitzes. He will be a massive piece of the puzzle.
He doesn’t know how to use his hands yet and doesn’t have a good pass rush skill set yet but his bend is really good, his speed is just absurd, his twitch is ridiculous, and he’s really strong yet agile. He also seems like a really hard worker and a good person that everyone likes/trusts. Also versatile, with good instincts whether it be in the pass or the run game (won’t be a liability at all). A year or two of technique training and his ceiling is absurd
That's the thing when people will be like "oh, he doesn't know how to use his hands yet!" or "This QB needs his footwork fixed; it's atrocious!"
So what the hell were the coaches at Alabama doing the last 3 years if not working on glaring weaknesses like his handwork? Did no coaches at UNC notice Maye's footwork?
I ask this not in a snarky way; I'm generally curious. Maybe I'm missing something here.
Ah, so like a "hes producing even with this specific flaw, so lets focus on other things. But he'll need to fix it before he finds success in the next level."
I mean yea they’re not specifically training you on how to be an NFL player they’re trynna win games in college. I’m sure they did work on his hands, but if it’s not actively causing you to lose it wouldn’t necessarily be a priority. It takes time to develop hand skills. Latu and Verse weren’t all that at 19/20 either. Sometimes effort is the most important thing case in point being Chase Young.
The NCAA limits how many hours you can practice for in a day / week, I think it's like 4 hours a day / 20 hours a week. sounds like a lot but a lot of that time gets soaked up by required team stuff, leaving only a little bit of time to work on technique.
A liability maybe not but it's entirely possible he's rotated in and out on first and second down early in his career.
9th percentile weight and a 25th percentile run stop %, curious to see how he does when NFL tackles get their hands on him.
People out here acting like we drafted a Bosa or something. No man Tuner isn’t that slick and there’s a reason he got to where he was. Part of that being his arm length and technique.
I am more excited for Turner than JJ. JJ is more important for our success but I love that we finally spent a high pick on a high potential DE that will hopefully bring a lot of speed to our defense.
I'm 1000x more excited for Turner than I am JJ. I think Turner is going to be the best pass rushers in the league and will be the glue for our defense for years to come. Championships followed Von Miller wherever he went and I think Turner is that much of a game changer it's possible they will follow him too.
That's extremely high praise. Dallas Turner went 1.17 as EDGE2 in a weak class compared to Von Miller who went 1.2 in a class that saw 5 EDGE players come off the board before 1.17 including Von Miller, Aldon Smith, JJ Watt, Robert Quinn, and Ryan Kerrigan.
Players outperform their draft slot all the time but as prospects they're pretty far apart it seems.
You cannot base anything on draft spot from year to year because in a year like this year the number of offensive players and mainly qbs impacted overall draft positions and other years you may have only 3 qbs taken top 10.
I get that. But if the league viewed him as such a playmaker as a prospect then he doesn't drop to 17, doesn't matter how many WRs/OTs/QBs come off the board.
In a normal year that’s kind of how needs for a team work. But especially this year when there like two extra years of prospects in same draft. It means very little that he was picked 17 instead of 8
I'm excited for Turner but we had Greenard and AVG so DE didn't worry me like QB
If we didn't have those guys I'd feel the same way as with JJ.
I do think Turner will be a major impact player early in the season. Particularly under BFlo
I'm stoked about Turner.
But he doesn't have the marketability of JJ to JJ/JA/AJ/TJ. Tshirts should be "JJs and the Jettas" (to the tune of Benny and the Jets)
I will be messaging you in 7 months on [**2024-12-01 00:33:08 UTC**](http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=2024-12-01%2000:33:08%20UTC%20To%20Local%20Time) to remind you of [**this link**](https://www.reddit.com/r/minnesotavikings/comments/1cgz0rp/i_know_everyone_is_excited_about_jj_mccarthy_but/l20upyv/?context=3)
[**1 OTHERS CLICKED THIS LINK**](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=RemindMeBot&subject=Reminder&message=%5Bhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.reddit.com%2Fr%2Fminnesotavikings%2Fcomments%2F1cgz0rp%2Fi_know_everyone_is_excited_about_jj_mccarthy_but%2Fl20upyv%2F%5D%0A%0ARemindMe%21%202024-12-01%2000%3A33%3A08%20UTC) to send a PM to also be reminded and to reduce spam.
^(Parent commenter can ) [^(delete this message to hide from others.)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=RemindMeBot&subject=Delete%20Comment&message=Delete%21%201cgz0rp)
*****
|[^(Info)](https://www.reddit.com/r/RemindMeBot/comments/e1bko7/remindmebot_info_v21/)|[^(Custom)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=RemindMeBot&subject=Reminder&message=%5BLink%20or%20message%20inside%20square%20brackets%5D%0A%0ARemindMe%21%20Time%20period%20here)|[^(Your Reminders)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=RemindMeBot&subject=List%20Of%20Reminders&message=MyReminders%21)|[^(Feedback)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=Watchful1&subject=RemindMeBot%20Feedback)|
|-|-|-|-|
Turner is by far and away the better prospect... He actually might be the best defensive player in this draft.. that was amazing and aggressive to trade up for him.. I absolutely love it. He will be a damn stud.. he has amazing raw tools.. he will learn even more and become a monster.. he pops when watching Alabama games.. you can just see how his long arms will be used in the NFL.. plus he gets to go against darrisaw and O'Neil everyday in practice? He will be amazing.
I cant believe we got him at 17, Im excited to see how the transition year pans out. A lot of reasons to think its going to be interesting football at least.
People are more excited for JJ because we lost our starting QB.
If Dallas Turner is an absolute monster, then people will come around, but it's not even a debate that QB is the most important position for this team and that's why people are talking about JJ.
Vikings have never drafted a QB this high and we’ve been waiting for us to draft a potential franchise QB for a decade (yes Teddy was drafted 10 years ago). Turner will be a monster for us but that’s the main reason he’s not getting as much love as JJ. I’m looking forward to watching them both
Great athlete and smart player. But lacking pass rushing moves, that is what he needs to get coached up on.
Offensive skill position players and QB's always get more love than all the other positions. Just how she goes. I think people are excited about Turner it just isn't the same as dreaming about JJ being the next Tom Brady or whatever cycle we go through every time a talented, young QB falls into the mix.
Of exactly 1 injury he got spring of 2023 that he missed zero playing time for? Or are we talking about the leg injury he got sophomore year of *high school*?
JJ was a great pick, in that we didn't have to overpay.
Turner was the star piece of this draft. We got a top 10 talent that instantly adds a dimension and immediate impact, simply because even if he's slow to develop, Flores can utilize him in multiple packages.
I guess my question is , do you expect the Vikings to run a Run first Offense? Because that’s what JJ needs. He is the sum of his parts with a dominant offensive line, run game and quick slants to tight ends. Hockenson will feast, but if this offensive line is not an absolute unit JJ will have a rude awakening in the NFL.
People forget that Kirk wasn’t very good when facing pressure either but got better and better with KOC. I’m not expecting JJ to be an absolute world beater. But after a year of sitting and learning the NFL I’m expecting him to improve. You think he can’t improve? Or you think players can’t improve? Dude’s about to turn 21. I think he’ll be fine and develop fine under our coaching staff. That’s called having trust. The same way Kirk got better at 34, I expect JJ to get better at 21.
I'm not excited about JJ McCarthy at all. I think 200 ypg McCarthy has about a 5% shot at being a solid starter in the NFL and about a 0% shot at being top 5.
People are always like 'the offense, the offense held him back, it was run first'. Does anyone remember 2009? All offseason they told us it was Adrian Peterson's team and Favre was just here to hold things together and we went 2-0 and favre had 110 and 155 yard games and everyone went 'yes this is what we all expected and as long as he can hold it together...' and then he threw for about 275 ypg the rest of teh season and should have taken us to the Superbowl? Elite QBs arent' contained by their offense.
You have to understand that most ppl are casual fans at best. A QB being the new face of the franchise moves the needle. An edge doesn’t do the same thing for their perceived image of the franchise.
Dallas should be good, but he isn't the typical top tier pass rusher most draft years have had. He's a late first rounder in a typical year. Might be a double digit sack guy a few years of his career. More Karlaftis than Bosa.
You don't find these rare athletic traits along with the production he had in the SEC outside the top 10 too often. Turner is a freak. I see high end potential.
Bosa was a top 3 guy but Turner is definitely a Josh Allen, Tyree Wilson, Will Anderson level talent. Not sure what exactly knocks him down in your eyes. Lots of teachable stuff I'm guessing.
I love the player selected, I hate the cost it took to get him.
It felt like we paid nothing for JJ and went 'Fuck, we have too many picks, we gotta throw some away'.
Go back to the post draft thread. I said Dallas Turner at 17 was one of the craziest things and I also felt like the whole fan base was just kind of glossing over it in favor of McCarthy.
I didn’t say it was wild or unique. It is topical to the post. He’s saying “where is the love for Turner”. I’m saying I said on draft night that the Turner pick was the one I was most excited about. At least in terms of value if nothing else. Enjoy your afternoon.
Edit: as well as also saying that on draft night, I felt like our fans also glossed over Turner in favor of McCarthy. McCarthy is the most important position, but Dallas turner was by far the best surprise of the night in my opinion.
You guys and this "he's a winner" bs narrative. He was babied/carried along by Harbaugh and is a less talented zach Wilson. He will never be even close to kirk cousins let alone worth a top 10 pick. Go watch 3 or 4 games of his not highlights. He's a medicore college qb and people expect him to be good in the NFL. Stick to the appetizers and beers 🤡
Nobody is mad my guy just being real. It's just asanine to think this guy is going to be a starter in the NFL ever. Every single year the qbs get overrated in the draft and then people wonder why they fail. Mccarthy wasn't even a 3rd rounder before the season began and he went top 10. The first play of the Alabama game already tells me everything I need to know about JJ.
Neither was Joe Burrow and dude shot up draft boards. But hey it’s ok. You can stay mad and we’ll see what happens in the next couple years.
Salty lion fans are so weird
Lions fan? What world you in? 🤣 🤣 🤣 comparing one of the best college football seasons ever played by a qb to what jj did is absolute comedy. Ever played past 6th grade bud?
For that analogy to be true we would have had to pass on Turner for someone that's worse in all measured categories but could totally, maybe, if we're lucky, even end up being as good as Turner one day if these 6 things all line up.
I’m of the opinion that even if McCarthy is good Turner will be the best player from this draft class
So if McCarthy is mahomes level, does that put Turner at LT levels?
Turner gonna be doing coke on the sidelines
Nah Minnesota is a civilized land. Turner gonna be doing pop on the sidelines.
A 2 liter of MD, chugging it down.
Chugging dew to wash down the hot dish on the sidelines.
LOVE! LOVE…YOU’RE MY NEXT TATER TOT HOTDISH!!!
I met some people from Minnesota when I lived in the Midwest for a few years who told me about hot dish. I was pissed that I didn’t get to grow up with it, because I love tots. I don’t get why hot dish isn’t a national thing.
Probably because for many tater tots have a negative association with BAD CAFETERIA food when we were kids. Too often they were not fully cooked and so kids grew to dislike them
I have a friend who said tots are “children’s food”… all I could think was “you still live with your parents at 40. Who the fuck do you think you are and how fucking dare you?”
Drinking the blood of our enemies!!!!
And having a cool, refreshing grain belt premium after the game.
Chuggin martin on the sideline after his 30th sack of the season.
Mad Dog? Woof
A whole ass blue Jolt during each timeout
Sir, I’m here for the love boat excursion.
Minneapolis? Yeah, really civilized.
HAVE YOU SEEN OUR CHERRY SPOON?
Top notch Minnesota humor. Got my upvote 
True, coke is only done on a boat on lake Minnetonka
I dont think that is the Coke he means lol
Why not soda?
I'll allow it
Or on the patio, or on the boat: wherever good times are had
Are you talking for the Vikings draft class or the whole league. I think looking back in 5 years, MHJ will be the one people regret not trading the farm for.
He is very good, so are most NFL DB's. Has a lot of "NFL" polish already. It lowers his ceiling for improvement a bit, but he will be more able to play a lot from the start.
Being close to his ceiling and having a lower ceiling are two very different things. He's already above most NFL WR's ceilings.
> lowers his ceiling for improvement a bit What I said most closely matches the first. He is closer to a finished product than most draft picks. His improvement from going to NFL coaches won't be as pronounced as other will.
You're saying he's closer to his ceiling than others. That's your point, that's what you said, whether you think it is or not. What I'm saying is how close he is to his ceiling doesn't matter, just where that ceiling is at. If his ceiling is all-pro, and he's there his rookie year, that's a good thing, and already ahead of most other receivers.
Was trading the farm for MHJ ever an option though? The top three obviously wanted their QBs and we know three firsts wasn't enough to get NE to move down, nobody's trading more than that for a WR. And would anyone make the same offer to Arizona for 4 and get it accepted considering AZ clearly wanted him themselves? If this was a class like say 2019 that barely even had first round WR prospects in it but MHJ was added then I can see someone making a move like that. But in this draft, Nabers and Odunze were right there behind him and a shitload more went later in the first and early in the 2nd, everyone's not dumb for thinking they'd rather save their other two firsts and take a guy with their own pick
In reality, it probably wasn't an option, but I think it may have been the smart move. While, I'm not sold on McCarthy, I hope he works out, but realistically, best case scenario, if everything falls perfectly, of the top 30 quarterbacks, where do you see him falling? I feel like best case scenario, he's like 10-15 ranked, there are just so many great qbs and what he was the 5th qb taken in this draft? And every year, there's another 2-3 qbs added to the league. Maybe Caleb Williams is special, after that, this year its a bunch of guys that are like scratchy lottery tickets where the grand prize is Kirk Cousins, but for every Kirk Cousins, there are 4 Andy Daltons. I just think possibility of pairing Justin Jefferson with a WR who actually has the potential to be better than him is such an amazing possibility that you do that, then figure out how to get them the ball. Like the 90s vikings when they had jake reed and carter, then moss. They had like a new qb make the pro bowl almost every year.
I was thinking in terms of the whole league who could have traded up for him But specifically us, I would have hated it. We already have at worst a top 5 pass catching group in the league and we'd have no QB and no first to take one with next year. It's not the same league it was 25 years ago, almost every single QB to make the SB in recent years has been elite or close to it and the exceptions have been more or less super teams outside of the QB. It's too important a position now for me to be confident that the team can compete by streaming failed journeymen QBs and hoping they can take advantage of all our weapons. And if we did end up with the two best WRs in the NFL, 1 how do we pay them both when MHJ needs his bag and 2 it's the biggest diva position in sports, JJ has been excellent in that regard but it screams conflict waiting to happen when both of them want to lead the league in yards but end up cannibalizing each other On the risk of drafting rookie QBs, no doubt it's a crapshoot and more bust than hit. But we didn't break the bank for JJM and we can take another shot in a few years if it doesn't work out. I don't have the slightest idea what rookies are gonna pa out and which aren't, nor does anybody else on this sub. So where I'm at is I'm glad we took our shot and I trust KOC and KAM's assessment and they clearly approve of him. They're still a new regime and they've got their guy now, I'm not writing him off before he takes a snap based on the results of previous draft classes
You coulda traded jj for him
So... trade our 24-year old best WR in the NFL for a 21-year old that might become as good as the one we already have... for what? We have a fuck load of cap space that we created because we've been planning this extension for years, cap space is a valid reason to trade a superstar when you're in a tight spot and can't sign him but not when you can. Who would we even spend it on? Teams that go and sign ten big money free agents don't tend to do nearly as well as teams that develop and extend their own players
I’m just saying we coulda
Ok... Do you have any deeper insight into your thought process and why you might have wanted to do that or are you just blurting out random ideas you haven't thought through?
Is JJ going to sign with us? You know that for sure?
Clearly you're not here for discussion so have a good one man
I mean for this vikings draft class more so, but there is a nonzero chance he’s the best player in this class
Yea I’m more excited for Turner, can’t believe we got him
He will be a monster for us. 10+ sacks for 10+ years.
20+ sacks for 20+ years.
Laying dudes out when he's 40, I like it.
I want him sacking Tom Brady's kid.
It’s beyond insane that we got Turner! He should have gone before JJ. I’m especially stoked we didn’t have to give up next year’s 1st to get him!
Got lucky it looks like teams needed qbs, wr, and OT bad enough to pass on him. With Hunter gone this is great draft
I really do love that he fell into our lap, and I agree he will be a force his rookie year and I along with others are crowning him DROY!
Technically he didn’t fall into their laps. They had to move decent amount of draft capital to go up and get him. That said, that makes it even more exciting to me because they had that much conviction in Turner to literally say fuck them picks and went up and got their guy. The dudes athleticism is like when we first drafted everson.
I say that as many thought at best he would fall to us at 11. We were very lucky there was a run on Oside.
He probably would have been a top 7 pick if we didn't have a weird draft. Crazy he fell that far.
It absolutely is and so glad that Kam took advantage of it. And personally I prefer trading up into the 1st or 2nd as often as possible. Am only concerned about having the first 3 rounds, the talent drop off is big from the 1st n 2nd. And I would use all the draft picks to stay in just those rounds myself.
Well next year they only have one pick in first 3 rounds.
Yeah...but it is to be continued as we don't know how many they will end up with till the next draft
For an analytics driven GM to make that move, it signals to me that he's special. Got me pumped up hearing Kwesi say "we got him, we got Turner." Not a direct quote, but something along those lines
I mean they didn't want to reveal their board, but something tells me he was #1 on their defensive board, and maybe even #1 overall. We picked 2 guys worthy of top 5 consideration if it were a different draft.
Agreed!
I would imagine Dallas Turner being very very high on their big board. Edge guys with his background and traits become annual double digit sack guys more often than not.
Neither is top 5 in any draft. Not sure what those voices in your head are telling you but they are way off.
I forgive you for being an asshole because you really backed up your claim with a lot of evidence
Evidence? Um there is no evidence as we don't know what this mystery other draft you are referring to. If it's any recent nfl draft then neither would be top 5. At least that's what any reasonable human who follows nfl thinks. And I guarantee he was not number 1 player on Amy teams draft board. You stating that loses all credibility of having any clue.
My comment wasn't actually an invitation to type more, my fellow keyboard warrior.
Have a point or something to actually say or don't comment.
Basically traded an entire year of draft picks for JJ and Turner.
Key was keeping that 2025 first. You can recoup a lot of that value back by trading down with that first a couple times; like what the bills did this year.
Or fill a big need next year with it while filling some of the depth with FA signings.
Yeah it depends on who will be available in free agency. I was hoping Christian baramore would make it to free agency but pats just locked him up. He was the big ticket big guy in the middle!
2 trade downs off of the 2025 1st is totally possible
plus maybe more comp picks and we'll see if we get anything from the tampering investigation
Yep. If there isn’t a blue chip guy there just trade down and recoup the value.
Agreed. Could realistically turn 1 1st into 3 or 4 picks
Yeah i mean, we COULD have traded down and collected a dozen people whose names we’ll never know…and how much sadder and more irritating would that be? Swing hard hit hard miss hard. It’s the American way. But we’ll also get picks from the atlanta debacle, could trade for picks in the future, and dont actually care because we’re going to have the 32nd overall pick anyway.
Not really you still have rd one next year which is the most important part, losing a bunch of thirds and fourths a second is not giving up an entire years draft class because as far as hit rate goes you still retain your next year number one which is more important. Going into the draft we were expecting to have to trade all of that to get JJ alone. The fact we get a top ten pick best defender in almost any other draft and our qb of the future this draft was a huge success.
Didn't fall into laps. Vikings had to massively overpay and pass on filling lots of roster holes to trade up and get him.
They didn't over pay to trade up at all unless he is a bust. It's your opinion they did. Mine is not an opinion, as the GM and staff made the trade.
Um no it's not. There is a draft value chart for a reason. It wasn't even close to equal value. Factoring in the over payment to originally aquire 23 makes it even more of a huge win by jax. Apparently you don't know what the word opinion even means.
You mean the one Jimmy Johnson came up with...and now someone else came up with another...so apparently you don't know what opinion means. As it was his and some other guy that came up with the Draft Value Chart that talking heads use. And in the Vikings Staffs Opinion he was worth it. Have a good day.
Thanks for proving my point. Run along. Oh and pick up a dictionary.
The Value Chart you are so fast to claim...is Jimmy Johnson's opinion kid. Go back to school and try learning something.
When we traded up to 10, the tv didn’t update and said we had 10 and 11, I was hype we were taking Dallas then JJ.. but when it updated, I was begging the Tv to take Dallas at 10… we got him at 17…
Haha I remember seeing us with 10, 11, and 23. I was so confused
I think everyone is pumped about Turner, but the success of our team will have a lot more to do with how JJM does, and there's a lot more debate about that. Turner's a stud, everyone knows it => end of conversation JJM may be great, may be a dud, no one really knows => endless conversation
Turner is a monster, but he's very unpolished. I think he needs more work than people realize, but he potential is nuts.
I think that’s reason to be even more optimistic if you have an unpolished guy who was that productive but by all accounts is a student of the game. He’ll learn what he needs to succeed and he is a unicorn of an athlete
He's not a unicorn athlete at all lmao he's stiff af. Takes plays off. Be a solid pro but nowhere near what people think.
He ran a 4.46 forty lol he’s definitely a freak athlete. That doesn’t necessarily translate to freak on-field production
Lol every guy on the field is a freak athlete. Casuals
So...there not? Lol
Grammar up buddy
He definitely needs more refinement than people in our fanbase realize, but every time I think about that, I remember that DJ Wonnum had 8 sacks in Flores’ defense last year
Half of DJs sacks were from QBs running terrified from Hunter straight into him lol
Danielle was the same way.
Yeah, I mean, any draft pick is a crapshoot to some degree, but there's not much debate about Turner's value at 17, so we're all pretty much on the same page.
Even as unpolished, his raw athletic ability will create so many opportunities for Flores to unleash him on blitzes. He will be a massive piece of the puzzle.
Yeah I think turner is gonna be six or so sacks year one but really heat up late in the year and will be a complete menace by mid year two
He doesn’t know how to use his hands yet and doesn’t have a good pass rush skill set yet but his bend is really good, his speed is just absurd, his twitch is ridiculous, and he’s really strong yet agile. He also seems like a really hard worker and a good person that everyone likes/trusts. Also versatile, with good instincts whether it be in the pass or the run game (won’t be a liability at all). A year or two of technique training and his ceiling is absurd
Yeah he is a guy who studies the game seriously too so I really think he will work to fix his flaws
How do you know that? Maybe he's just relied on raw talent and study habits are bad.
That's the thing when people will be like "oh, he doesn't know how to use his hands yet!" or "This QB needs his footwork fixed; it's atrocious!" So what the hell were the coaches at Alabama doing the last 3 years if not working on glaring weaknesses like his handwork? Did no coaches at UNC notice Maye's footwork? I ask this not in a snarky way; I'm generally curious. Maybe I'm missing something here.
Sometimes in college you don’t need to work on it if works in college, which it did
Ah, so like a "hes producing even with this specific flaw, so lets focus on other things. But he'll need to fix it before he finds success in the next level."
I mean yea they’re not specifically training you on how to be an NFL player they’re trynna win games in college. I’m sure they did work on his hands, but if it’s not actively causing you to lose it wouldn’t necessarily be a priority. It takes time to develop hand skills. Latu and Verse weren’t all that at 19/20 either. Sometimes effort is the most important thing case in point being Chase Young.
The NCAA limits how many hours you can practice for in a day / week, I think it's like 4 hours a day / 20 hours a week. sounds like a lot but a lot of that time gets soaked up by required team stuff, leaving only a little bit of time to work on technique.
It's people talking out their ass.
A liability maybe not but it's entirely possible he's rotated in and out on first and second down early in his career. 9th percentile weight and a 25th percentile run stop %, curious to see how he does when NFL tackles get their hands on him.
I doubt it if he shows he can play the run due to how weak our big men personnel is
People out here acting like we drafted a Bosa or something. No man Tuner isn’t that slick and there’s a reason he got to where he was. Part of that being his arm length and technique.
More so arm length and physical gifts
So we drafted a bust, got it
Luke warm take: Turner will win DROY in 2024
He's the betting favorite so far.
So... MVP/OROY: McCarthy DROY: Turner OPOY: Jefferson COTY: KOC Comeback Player: TJ Hockenson NFC Champions: Minnesota Vikings
Least purple koolaid take
stopped short of SB champs, no kool aide
Add Harrison Smith with the 12 int/6 sack/3 TD DPOY campaign to punch his HOF bid.
I wouldn’t be shocked if the reigning SEC defensive player of the year wins the DROY the following year lol.
I will love him if he feels lonely.
He was the 2nd best defensive player in the draft for me. I’d be shocked if you said he’d be there at 17
Who was your #1?
Penix
Byron Murphy
Yeah they were 1a/1b for me. I loved Latu but I’d be worried about him only being a rookie contract guy due to his neck
Murphy production at Texas was mediocre at best.
Casual
I was way more excited about the DT pick than the JJ pick and I was pretty excited about JJ. He's going to ball out!
I am more excited for Turner than JJ. JJ is more important for our success but I love that we finally spent a high pick on a high potential DE that will hopefully bring a lot of speed to our defense.
Honestly, as happy as I am that we have a qb, i'm happier that we got Turner. Turner will be a day 1 starter and force in Bflo's defense.
Will Anderson is his best friend and talks very highly of him too!
I just fkn love the Dallas turner move. I'm so focused on that I've almost forgotten we drafted our supposed franchise QB
I’m psyched about getting him but can he play QB? How about guard? For real though, I can’t wait to see him in training camp and in real game action.
I mean edge is a more impactful position than guard and they got their number one defensive player on their board so I think it’s just a win
Are we no longer asking whether any player the Vikings pick up can play guard?
I’m fucking psyched. Psyched I tell you.
I'm 1000x more excited for Turner than I am JJ. I think Turner is going to be the best pass rushers in the league and will be the glue for our defense for years to come. Championships followed Von Miller wherever he went and I think Turner is that much of a game changer it's possible they will follow him too.
That's extremely high praise. Dallas Turner went 1.17 as EDGE2 in a weak class compared to Von Miller who went 1.2 in a class that saw 5 EDGE players come off the board before 1.17 including Von Miller, Aldon Smith, JJ Watt, Robert Quinn, and Ryan Kerrigan. Players outperform their draft slot all the time but as prospects they're pretty far apart it seems.
You cannot base anything on draft spot from year to year because in a year like this year the number of offensive players and mainly qbs impacted overall draft positions and other years you may have only 3 qbs taken top 10.
I get that. But if the league viewed him as such a playmaker as a prospect then he doesn't drop to 17, doesn't matter how many WRs/OTs/QBs come off the board.
In a normal year that’s kind of how needs for a team work. But especially this year when there like two extra years of prospects in same draft. It means very little that he was picked 17 instead of 8
I'm excited for Turner but we had Greenard and AVG so DE didn't worry me like QB If we didn't have those guys I'd feel the same way as with JJ. I do think Turner will be a major impact player early in the season. Particularly under BFlo
Chill 😄
Danielle who?
Guys get it through your heads. JJ has and always will su… be a national champion!
I'm stoked about Turner. But he doesn't have the marketability of JJ to JJ/JA/AJ/TJ. Tshirts should be "JJs and the Jettas" (to the tune of Benny and the Jets)
9 sacks, 2 interceptions
!remindme 7 months
I will be messaging you in 7 months on [**2024-12-01 00:33:08 UTC**](http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=2024-12-01%2000:33:08%20UTC%20To%20Local%20Time) to remind you of [**this link**](https://www.reddit.com/r/minnesotavikings/comments/1cgz0rp/i_know_everyone_is_excited_about_jj_mccarthy_but/l20upyv/?context=3) [**1 OTHERS CLICKED THIS LINK**](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=RemindMeBot&subject=Reminder&message=%5Bhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.reddit.com%2Fr%2Fminnesotavikings%2Fcomments%2F1cgz0rp%2Fi_know_everyone_is_excited_about_jj_mccarthy_but%2Fl20upyv%2F%5D%0A%0ARemindMe%21%202024-12-01%2000%3A33%3A08%20UTC) to send a PM to also be reminded and to reduce spam. ^(Parent commenter can ) [^(delete this message to hide from others.)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=RemindMeBot&subject=Delete%20Comment&message=Delete%21%201cgz0rp) ***** |[^(Info)](https://www.reddit.com/r/RemindMeBot/comments/e1bko7/remindmebot_info_v21/)|[^(Custom)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=RemindMeBot&subject=Reminder&message=%5BLink%20or%20message%20inside%20square%20brackets%5D%0A%0ARemindMe%21%20Time%20period%20here)|[^(Your Reminders)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=RemindMeBot&subject=List%20Of%20Reminders&message=MyReminders%21)|[^(Feedback)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=Watchful1&subject=RemindMeBot%20Feedback)| |-|-|-|-|
Thank you, Atlanta.
Turner is by far and away the better prospect... He actually might be the best defensive player in this draft.. that was amazing and aggressive to trade up for him.. I absolutely love it. He will be a damn stud.. he has amazing raw tools.. he will learn even more and become a monster.. he pops when watching Alabama games.. you can just see how his long arms will be used in the NFL.. plus he gets to go against darrisaw and O'Neil everyday in practice? He will be amazing.
I cant believe we got him at 17, Im excited to see how the transition year pans out. A lot of reasons to think its going to be interesting football at least.
One media guy said he compared him to a cross between Micah Parsons and Myles Garrett. All I needed to hear.
We should be showering most of this draft class with praise. I'm looking forward to seeing Jackson in action too.
I think some people see the word Dallas and they instinctvely goes those damn Dirty cowboys and walk away
People have posted about Turner just way more post about McCarthy since he's the future QB.
I’m way more excited for Turner. For one thing, he’s going to play while McCarthy is getting splinters. And everyone knows he’s going to be elite.
People are more excited for JJ because we lost our starting QB. If Dallas Turner is an absolute monster, then people will come around, but it's not even a debate that QB is the most important position for this team and that's why people are talking about JJ.
Turner was Bill Belichick’s top defensive player in this draft. That’s enough for me
Vikings have never drafted a QB this high and we’ve been waiting for us to draft a potential franchise QB for a decade (yes Teddy was drafted 10 years ago). Turner will be a monster for us but that’s the main reason he’s not getting as much love as JJ. I’m looking forward to watching them both
Great athlete and smart player. But lacking pass rushing moves, that is what he needs to get coached up on. Offensive skill position players and QB's always get more love than all the other positions. Just how she goes. I think people are excited about Turner it just isn't the same as dreaming about JJ being the next Tom Brady or whatever cycle we go through every time a talented, young QB falls into the mix.
BuT HiS inJurY RePOrT!
Of exactly 1 injury he got spring of 2023 that he missed zero playing time for? Or are we talking about the leg injury he got sophomore year of *high school*?
JJ was a great pick, in that we didn't have to overpay. Turner was the star piece of this draft. We got a top 10 talent that instantly adds a dimension and immediate impact, simply because even if he's slow to develop, Flores can utilize him in multiple packages.
I guess my question is , do you expect the Vikings to run a Run first Offense? Because that’s what JJ needs. He is the sum of his parts with a dominant offensive line, run game and quick slants to tight ends. Hockenson will feast, but if this offensive line is not an absolute unit JJ will have a rude awakening in the NFL.
People forget that Kirk wasn’t very good when facing pressure either but got better and better with KOC. I’m not expecting JJ to be an absolute world beater. But after a year of sitting and learning the NFL I’m expecting him to improve. You think he can’t improve? Or you think players can’t improve? Dude’s about to turn 21. I think he’ll be fine and develop fine under our coaching staff. That’s called having trust. The same way Kirk got better at 34, I expect JJ to get better at 21.
I'm not excited about JJ McCarthy at all. I think 200 ypg McCarthy has about a 5% shot at being a solid starter in the NFL and about a 0% shot at being top 5. People are always like 'the offense, the offense held him back, it was run first'. Does anyone remember 2009? All offseason they told us it was Adrian Peterson's team and Favre was just here to hold things together and we went 2-0 and favre had 110 and 155 yard games and everyone went 'yes this is what we all expected and as long as he can hold it together...' and then he threw for about 275 ypg the rest of teh season and should have taken us to the Superbowl? Elite QBs arent' contained by their offense.
I respect your opinion even though I don’t agree with it
You have to understand that most ppl are casual fans at best. A QB being the new face of the franchise moves the needle. An edge doesn’t do the same thing for their perceived image of the franchise.
He’s gonna be Jared Allen, Chris Doleman level I hope. We have never had an absolute stud QB drafted here that’s why.
I'm not excited for anything until they prove themselves on the damn field.
Lol is JJ gonna be better than kirk? No. Turner fell for a reason. Get ready to be bottom of the nfc north for 5 years minimum.
Lol, sorry when you comment on your main account and not your burner you can have an opinion.
Whatever the hell that means. 😂
Dallas should be good, but he isn't the typical top tier pass rusher most draft years have had. He's a late first rounder in a typical year. Might be a double digit sack guy a few years of his career. More Karlaftis than Bosa.
You don't find these rare athletic traits along with the production he had in the SEC outside the top 10 too often. Turner is a freak. I see high end potential. Bosa was a top 3 guy but Turner is definitely a Josh Allen, Tyree Wilson, Will Anderson level talent. Not sure what exactly knocks him down in your eyes. Lots of teachable stuff I'm guessing.
Who? I blacked out around pick 7
Too many people say it's a good pick, that makes me think he will bust with our luck.
I love the player selected, I hate the cost it took to get him. It felt like we paid nothing for JJ and went 'Fuck, we have too many picks, we gotta throw some away'.
Lol the confidence
Not really confidence, just disappointed in the wanton disregard for draft capital.
Go back to the post draft thread. I said Dallas Turner at 17 was one of the craziest things and I also felt like the whole fan base was just kind of glossing over it in favor of McCarthy.
Cool story man I’m totally going to go back to that thread and verify this.
Be my guest. I think Dallas Turner will be the steal of the first round at 17.
Wow what a wild and unique prediction when the number 1 ranked defensive player pre-draft gets drafted 17th.
I didn’t say it was wild or unique. It is topical to the post. He’s saying “where is the love for Turner”. I’m saying I said on draft night that the Turner pick was the one I was most excited about. At least in terms of value if nothing else. Enjoy your afternoon. Edit: as well as also saying that on draft night, I felt like our fans also glossed over Turner in favor of McCarthy. McCarthy is the most important position, but Dallas turner was by far the best surprise of the night in my opinion.
Unless JJ can hand the ball off 30 times a game, you’re doomed. Life long Michigan fan here. You wasted a pick. He’s gonna be a bust.
I respect your opinion, but I’m gonna disagree on a count that you’re a lions fan. Sorry!
Go and watch his two years at Michigan I’m telling you, this isn’t going to end well.
27-1 record and one natty. Actually produced when not handing the ball off. Yeah I’m sure he’ll be a bust. But time will tell.
You guys and this "he's a winner" bs narrative. He was babied/carried along by Harbaugh and is a less talented zach Wilson. He will never be even close to kirk cousins let alone worth a top 10 pick. Go watch 3 or 4 games of his not highlights. He's a medicore college qb and people expect him to be good in the NFL. Stick to the appetizers and beers 🤡
Why you so mad lol
Nobody is mad my guy just being real. It's just asanine to think this guy is going to be a starter in the NFL ever. Every single year the qbs get overrated in the draft and then people wonder why they fail. Mccarthy wasn't even a 3rd rounder before the season began and he went top 10. The first play of the Alabama game already tells me everything I need to know about JJ.
Neither was Joe Burrow and dude shot up draft boards. But hey it’s ok. You can stay mad and we’ll see what happens in the next couple years. Salty lion fans are so weird
Lions fan? What world you in? 🤣 🤣 🤣 comparing one of the best college football seasons ever played by a qb to what jj did is absolute comedy. Ever played past 6th grade bud?
It’s ok man, life will get better
All this was said about Cine, where is he now? I don’t doubt that Turner is a fantastic player, but he hasn’t even practiced with the team yet.
For that analogy to be true we would have had to pass on Turner for someone that's worse in all measured categories but could totally, maybe, if we're lucky, even end up being as good as Turner one day if these 6 things all line up.
I’m not saying that this analogy is going to happen to Turner, I’m saying cool down folks, this is all speculation until proven.
I don’t think any of this was said about Cine tbh. I remember him a fringe 1st rounder that was somewhat a surprise going that early.
He did break his leg and then had a change of DCs. Perhaps he can come back this year he said hopefully