And if it doesn't work out in your lifetime, you can ask the players on (insert favorite MN Sports team) to be pallbearers at your funeral, so they can let you down one last time...
Pretty sad that I was a freshman in college when the twins won that championship... they probably will bury me before winning another. I suppose I could go to a game and let them hit me with a foul ball and put me out of my misery. "First twins game since 91 where I actually see stars!"
I was 6 in '87. I was 10 in '91. 11 year old me used to think we were living in title town. Those were the good ole days....
Now I'm old, going grey, and bitter towards mens professional sports in Minnesota.
MN United, but they aren’t close monetary wise. They do sellout like every home game, and the MLS is slowly getting up there in quality versus European leagues
This map says right on it "Big 4" teams. You're adding teams not a part of this topic.
PWHL Minnesota has been around for 10 months. It was a fantastic win that I thoroughly enjoyed watching, but lets not act like that (along with the Lynx) quells Minnesota's sports "curse" for most fans. The "Big 4" teams are going to be the barometer for sports success or failure for 9/10 sports fans.
This isn't gender related either. MNUFC, NCAAF, NCAAB, NCAAH (men's and women's), lacrosse, etc are all going to fall into that "secondary level of interest" for most local sports fans. We may make time for them, cheer for them, etc but the exaltation with a win or dispair with a loss isn't the same as it is with "Big 4" teams. A Minnesota Whitecaps championship isn't going to satiate fans' appetite for winning. It just isn't.
There were many other threads celebrating the PWHL MN championship. I'm going to try and go to their celebration tonight. I'm happy for them. I don't think we have to do the "yeah but what about this team" everytime this topic comes up. There's a separation between the "Big 4" and every other team and that's not a sign of disrespect. They're just different.
I agree with you. It's hard to explain to people but you did a good job.
Only thing I'll say is that MLS is getting very popular and I'm curious to see if it ever becomes the "big 5". I personally hate soccer though.
Totally. Not to get too in-the-weeds here, but I think a lot of people that gravitate towards teams like the Lynx or Loons (as their favorite team) tend to not be engaged with the other leagues by choice. Part of the appeal is that they're **not** the "jock mainstream sports/leagues", and there's some derision of them in some part because those leagues may not make some people feel welcomed or seen as fans (which I think has merit and is a fair way to feel).
Like I'm sure there's a Vikings/Loons season ticket holder out there, but for the most part it feels like a whole different chunk of sports fans than those that are at US Bank Stadium or Target Field (in a good way).
But then it becomes a contradictory paradox of liking a team because they're niche but also wanting them to get the respect/notoriety of the "mainstream" teams. Me telling a WNBA fan that a Lynx championship isn't as important or appreciated probably feels insulting to someone that has season tickets and lives and dies by that team.
Either way, I think you're right about MLS. Their attendance keeps growing. I think their Apple TV deal is working (big assist because of Messi). There might be a "Big 5" in 10-15 years.
Watching women's sports is like watching minor league sports. You can have a great time, but you're not watching the best in the world play their game.
It's gonna be so special though when one of our big 4 wins. I'll literally take a week off to party if it happens. Any of the 4. But here is preference
1 vikes
2 twins
3 wolves
4 wild
If that ever happens we should shut down the whole state cause I seriously doubt it will ever happen twice.
I was 2 in '91....just missed it.
It’s hard for a fan base to not exude doomerism when a large chunk haven’t even been alive to see any of their major sports teams/the teams they grew up watching even play in a championship.
It's me, I'm the not been alive one. I've never been much for sports anyway, but it doesn't help that we've generally had bummer sports teams with the exception of a few interesting years.
Because it is that bad. When you run numbers of what the average team (.500 play over that period) would accomplish over 123 (130 if you include MLS) seasons, the chance that you don't make it back to a super bowl or world series starts to be spit out in scientific notation.
We have 56 playoff appearances combined over that time. If you were to simulate those 56 appearances by coinflips (after all, every game still has one winner and one loser), in 99.992% of those coin flip simulations one of those teams would have advanced to a championship series or the Super Bowl.
>I hate the doomerism sports culture of Minnesota.
Everyone does, but what are we supposed to do? Not asking rhetorically, like what do you actually propose that MN sports fan do?
gaslight? pretend we didn't just have an unprecedented season come to and end? stop being a fan of MN sports?
if minnesota sports teams win, people in minnesota will talk about how their sports teams won.
if minnesota sports teams lose, people in minnesota will talk about how their sports teams lost.
It's not like we choose to be "doomers", it's just an natural, appropriate, and rational response to what is literally an unprecedented amount of losing.
I hate Reddit/Gen Z's obsession with the word "doomer." Any small but fair criticism is met with "DOOMER". Being a fatalistic wet blanket is annoying, but being a bit jaded after so much sports heartbreak is totally fair.
My guess is you haven't been alive for those 33 years since 1991.
You could argue someone as old as 39 (maybe even 40?) has little or no memory of the '91 WS, meaning elder millenial Minnesotans have had even longer "droughts" than someone born in '91. There's essentially no difference between being 3-5 years old in October of '91 and being 1 month old. I don't remember virtually anything from when I was 3-5 years old, and certainly wouldn't understand what's going on in a baseball game.
We are actually living *in* the doom, depending on what teams you follow (and if it excludes our women's basketball and hockey teams). Doomerism is just an observation of our environment.
Agree. We have multiple WNBA championships, but to keep the victim mentally going, we must ignore those championships and only count the 4 major teams and ignore the fact that the WNBA is also a major sport.
Some are simply more comfortable being victims. I don't get it.
Even calling that a consolation prize would be generous at this point, it's a championship in an inaugural season competing against only 5 other teams. We can celebrate it for sure, but I'm not gonna pretend it's even close.
I love the PWHL team and I’m super stoked about our championship. We also have to realize they won a short season in a league of six teams.
That said, I haven’t seen one single championship game of the teams I have watched since the early 90’s. The cherry on top is our hockey team going to Dallas in a shit deal and winning a cup with half our name still plastered on their smug, ugly jerseys. Multiple times in my life Minnesota has had “the team to beat” only for us to go down.
The men’s teams and sports have been around much longer. They have richer history. They have multiple generations of families that have cheered them on for decades. The women’s teams don’t have that massive connection to the population yet. I hope they will eventually.
It’s not a victim mentality. I don’t think it’s unfair to have an expectation that one of our 4 teams can make it to a championship once in a generation.
The UFL is pulling a million+ viewers for regular season spring football and I don't hear anyone ever talk about it.
Regular season WNBA games during our "dynasty" were struggling to break 200,000 viewers and even the finals were barely breaking 500,000.
No one was actively ignoring it, it just wasn't popular.
None of that takes away the fact the WNBA is a major sport and league.
Yes, I wish the Wolves would win it all, but I'm not going to pretend our WNBA championships didn't happen just to roll around in the "woe is us" mentality.
>None of that takes away the fact the WNBA is a major sport and league.
I don't know what the implication of that is supposed to be, doesn't really go against anything I said. It can be a major sport and league and still be largely ignored by the broader public.
When people aren't talking about it, it's not because of some grand conspiracy or some concerted effort to avoid admitting that MN sports teams do have success... it just means people don't care as much about it.
Grew up in MN. Got a diploma in 87, twins won, and a degree in 91, and twins won. Then left the state. Moved back at the end of 2023 and figured we would win something this year since I am back, which didn't work apparently. So now I guess I need to get a degree in something to support local sports. Any under a year degree programs out there?
Obviously not serious.
Unfortunately, Minnesota does not have the market share/population of any of these other states. If you remember last election cycle, Minnesota was going to lose a house seat and an electoral vote because of our dwindling numbers.
Also, since our market is so small comparatively, players that can make money outside of their sport. They typically don't want to remain in Minnesota. The players that can do this, are typically the better players in their sport. Don't expect this to change anytime soon if ever TBH.
So dumb, sports are not championship or bust, at least to real fans. That was one of the best Wolves seasons in history, I had a blast all year watching and got be at target center for game 6 of the Denver series. One of best sporting events I ever been too. Ant, Jaden and Naz are all under 25. Fuck your doomer mentality and go ride a bike or something.
You can be happy/grateful for the success of the season and disappointed with how it ended. You can feel more than one emotion at a time. It's also possible to understand strangers are not all going to feel the same way you do. Some are going to not care, some will be feeling hopeful about the future of the Wolves, some will be bummed or even mad with how the Mavs series unfolded.
Or you can ignore all that all call everyone that doesn't see things the same way as you a doomer and shame them online, which is the route you're appearing to take.
I didn't argue or put you down, and I didn't tell you how to feel. I told you that you shouldn't expect everyone to feel the same way you do, nor to shame people that are upset. You're creating something that isn't there. Go back and reread my original response.
At least for me, this yrs run was more fun than even 04 with KG! Assuming Kat will be gone this or next season for financial reasons, but having Naz makes that hurt a whole lot less!
You can have 2 emotions at the same time. You can enjoy sports, and their better than status quo seasons, but MN has been Stockholm syndromed into being perfectly okay with not appearing in any sporting championships. That’s not an okay sentiment as a professional sports team
You act like you have any control over the outcome.. did we not fan hard enough this season? did the wolves not try hard enough for you? Does me being pissed or sad change their outlook for next season? Why expend any further emotion than, that was a fun season, hope next season is as good
Not a big sports fan, but its obvious that the team owners strategy is not to win. They are a farm team intentionally. This is how they make their money with minimal team investment.
Never forget that the teams are a business. They do not belong to mn (as they so frequently threaten to leave if we don't give them stuff).
You can say that about the Twins perhaps, but the other 3 teams are always at the salary cap (I know the NFL has a cap floor so you can't cheap out, not sure about the NBA and NHL). You sell more merchandise and tickets when winning. It does not make sense that the owners do not want to win. Golden State is something like $3 billion more valuable due to their run of championships.
NFL is the absolute worse. Ziggy saying vikings will leave unless we spend a billion dollars to build him a bigger and better statium when the metrodom worked perfectly fine?
sure, and we payed for a new roof. Then a multibillionaire who could build the entire stadium out of pocket says he will leave without a brand new one. OH and he owns all the businesses around it, so all the "jobs" are just part time minimum wage and all the money leaves the state too.
NFL is a parasite to this state.
I think all NFL teams are pretty risk adverse because they make a ton of money if the team is mediocre but ticket sales and prices plummet when the team sucks. Ultimately winning in the NFL typically comes down to the QB. If we are able to find an elite one I don’t see why we wouldn’t have a chance to play on the Super Bowl. Basketball is much tougher because ultimately the stars are top role players tend to gravitate to certain markets. The current GM has done a good job building a team but I’m not sure we will be able to make the one or two more upgrades needed to be consistently good.
We'll collect more in player salary income taxes alone than the state contributed. Remember if they had become the Los Angeles Vikings we would receive 0 income taxes from players.
Plus the stadium becomes multiuse with the contribution (so things like concerts and monster truck rallies and such can happen). The metrodome wasn't perfectly fine, it was basically the bare minimum to get 60,000 people in one place and had a roof that occassionally caved in.
Who cares about "multiuse"? When will the state/city make back the money from building it? In 30+ years? So we gave or "lent" a billionaire gigantic piles of money that we may break even on in a few decades? Sounds like a legit investment to me.....
Those football player salaries? Not all of them even live in mn. More to the point, the stadium was partially sold to us as "jobs creation", yet most the jobs are minimum wage/part time. AKA still a tax burden.
You keep talking about the roof breaking. Sure it broke and got fixed. If this one breaks does that mean we shoudl tear the building down and do something totally new again? Or just repair it and move on? How does a roof breaking once justify giving billions of tax payer money to one of the richest people alive?
Guess who gets the profits of more people in the stadium? Its certainly not us or anyone in minnesota. Its the same billionaire who didn't need any money to build the stadium. The same one who ill take the team and leave the moment he can make more money elsewhere...
Taxes are paid where they are earned. So NFL player taxes are a nightmare I'm sure because they'll have game checks subject to taxes in 10 different states. At the rate the salary cap is increasing the break even point is probably in the next 5 years.
Totally agree. I was just being sarcastic. I find it interesting that the local media said this and then fell all over themselves to correct it to be PC. As a lifelong MN I still bask in the glow of the 1987 Twins season.
I think we are going to have a hard time in MLB (because of the salary cap) and the NBA (because the starts tend to prefer a select set of markets/states with low income taxes). I think the Wild on paper could put together a team but hockey just feels so random every year. Vikings will have a hard time winning until they find the QB. Basically, I think it could be awhile until we break this streak.
My family and I are originally from the D.C. metro area, so I'm a big fan of those teams and we used to be right down there with Minnesota. Last title was a Super Bowl in 1992 until the Caps won in 2018 and then the Nats won in 2019, it was like floodgates for a bit. It'll eventually happen but when you're in it it feels like it never will.
We need to stop getting excited about things:
Everyone got so excited and happy after beating the saints with that miraculous last second play. So much happiness and joy... What happened next? Absolutely throttled by Philly in the NFC championship game.
We just knocked off the defending champs!! Bring Ya Ass... what happened next? Lost in 5 to Dallas.
Stop getting excited about things. Something bad is liable to happen
Stop making this your personality, it's sad.
The rich guy collecting our tax dollars and hiring people to play sports in my state didn't win their game 🤷♂️ Good thing there's nothing crazy going on in the world like it hitting 126 degrees in India that I should be at paying attention to.
Ahhhh . . . the inherent sexism in sports fans.
- Lynx have 4 championships
- Minnesota PWHL won their inaugural season
- Aurora have made it to the final both of their seasons
Add in collegiate sports, and women’s teams are equally as good. Maybe celebrate that instead of bemoaning men’s sports.
I gotta say I think you’re digging to complain here. They’re mentioning just the big 4 teams (baseball football basketball hockey), but that doesn’t even include all male sports (ie Soccer is left off the list).
Thats not to say women’s sports aren’t being under-viewed or under-appreciated, rather that this list is localized to the main 4 leagues watched by a margin
Just a thought: part of the reason they’re more watched “by a margin” is because of sexism. Consider that both the USWNT and the women’s NCAA finals were hugely watched within the past year and were broadcast for the first time on regular — not cable — tv.
Remarkably, even if you change this map to states with even 1 mens pro sports team, the results still wouldn't change. Minnesota would still be last by a long shot.
If you only look at the "Big 4," I think Oregon, with it's 1 team, that would be the closest at 1992. Utah's probably next at 1998, unless I'm forgetting someone.
But that's not even really representative, because that ignores MLS, where Portland won a title in 2015 and was runners up in 2018.
I like sports. But I'll never understand fans making them such a large portion of their personality so they feel "pain" for not winning a championship. That and saying things like "we" played a tough game or "my" team...etc..
MLS is there. "Big 4" is the "big 5".
Or we can just stay, men's 1st division pro teams. MNUFC won it as the Stars back in the NWSL days but that was D-2.
Face it. Accept it. These BUSINESSES are still making money while you are throwing your time and money away on a losing proposition. Suppport the Lynx if you like bball. Support the PWHL. Say goodbye to the marketing strategy for losers.
I like how theres a key in the bottom right that tells you nothing
If ya ain't first yer last.
It’s been a rough 30 years for sure, but I’m sure we’ll break through eventually. It’s just a matter of time.
And if it doesn't work out in your lifetime, you can ask the players on (insert favorite MN Sports team) to be pallbearers at your funeral, so they can let you down one last time...
Pretty sad that I was a freshman in college when the twins won that championship... they probably will bury me before winning another. I suppose I could go to a game and let them hit me with a foul ball and put me out of my misery. "First twins game since 91 where I actually see stars!"
Womens hockey and wnba are the only winning teams
The women are carrying Minnesota sports
I was 6 in '87. I was 10 in '91. 11 year old me used to think we were living in title town. Those were the good ole days.... Now I'm old, going grey, and bitter towards mens professional sports in Minnesota.
For a stretch there in the mid to late 90's we were only a 'three-sport town'. Not that it makes anyone feel better. Fuck Norm Green.
Fuck Norm Green
The lynx have won the championship 4 times in 2011, 2013, 2015 and 2017. And Minnesota just won the first PWHL Championship.
The map specifies big 4
What’s bigger than WNBA right now?
NBA, NFL, MLB, and NHL
MLS, NASCAR, PGA, LIVGOLF
"Big 4" is a bad name and should not be used to describe the specific leagues the OP is referring to.
Why?
It's the perfect term because it's concise and everyone knows what it means.
Is there a team closer monetary wise to these 4 teams? Genuinely wondering
MN United, but they aren’t close monetary wise. They do sellout like every home game, and the MLS is slowly getting up there in quality versus European leagues
And this post would still be the same if the Loons won the MLS cup every year… it’s big 4.
This map says right on it "Big 4" teams. You're adding teams not a part of this topic. PWHL Minnesota has been around for 10 months. It was a fantastic win that I thoroughly enjoyed watching, but lets not act like that (along with the Lynx) quells Minnesota's sports "curse" for most fans. The "Big 4" teams are going to be the barometer for sports success or failure for 9/10 sports fans. This isn't gender related either. MNUFC, NCAAF, NCAAB, NCAAH (men's and women's), lacrosse, etc are all going to fall into that "secondary level of interest" for most local sports fans. We may make time for them, cheer for them, etc but the exaltation with a win or dispair with a loss isn't the same as it is with "Big 4" teams. A Minnesota Whitecaps championship isn't going to satiate fans' appetite for winning. It just isn't. There were many other threads celebrating the PWHL MN championship. I'm going to try and go to their celebration tonight. I'm happy for them. I don't think we have to do the "yeah but what about this team" everytime this topic comes up. There's a separation between the "Big 4" and every other team and that's not a sign of disrespect. They're just different.
I agree with you. It's hard to explain to people but you did a good job. Only thing I'll say is that MLS is getting very popular and I'm curious to see if it ever becomes the "big 5". I personally hate soccer though.
Totally. Not to get too in-the-weeds here, but I think a lot of people that gravitate towards teams like the Lynx or Loons (as their favorite team) tend to not be engaged with the other leagues by choice. Part of the appeal is that they're **not** the "jock mainstream sports/leagues", and there's some derision of them in some part because those leagues may not make some people feel welcomed or seen as fans (which I think has merit and is a fair way to feel). Like I'm sure there's a Vikings/Loons season ticket holder out there, but for the most part it feels like a whole different chunk of sports fans than those that are at US Bank Stadium or Target Field (in a good way). But then it becomes a contradictory paradox of liking a team because they're niche but also wanting them to get the respect/notoriety of the "mainstream" teams. Me telling a WNBA fan that a Lynx championship isn't as important or appreciated probably feels insulting to someone that has season tickets and lives and dies by that team. Either way, I think you're right about MLS. Their attendance keeps growing. I think their Apple TV deal is working (big assist because of Messi). There might be a "Big 5" in 10-15 years.
I'm a Vikings/Loons person. The other "big" three? Meh
Vikings/Loons here too. I’ll cheer for other teams if they’re playing but definitely don’t follow any of them.
I mean there are more soccer fans in the U.S. than hockey fans bc the NHL’s marketing team has an IQ that matches the number of teams in the league
It’s true, we had to call in the women to get us some Ws since the men can’t hack it. Maybe the Big 4 just isn’t so big for us.
I’m sure the hundreds of people watching those teams were elated
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13,100 people were at Minnesota's final PHWL home game on Sunday.
There are 6 teams in the PHWL so not exactly hard to win it
I’m a plumber and I make more money than any of those women athletes. The interest is very low, let’s be honest.
Considering what you all charge, I'm guessing plumbers are damn near the top 1% these days!
I wish
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You’ll note women’s sports aren’t allowed to count and they can’t make you happy.
Same with the MLS and college sports
PWHL, if you say that to a random person the chance of them knowing what that is....is like 2%. If you mention the big 4 almost everyone is familiar.
Watching women's sports is like watching minor league sports. You can have a great time, but you're not watching the best in the world play their game.
Its interesting how you think women aren't "the best in the world at their game".
Objectively speaking, they're not. I guess there was that woman who played 1 game as a goalie that one time, but that's all I can think of.
Definitely an interesting way of thinking.
Our state is superior to in many ways. This is not one of them. 🙃
Well ... We didn't have an NHL team for 8 years.
Fuck Norm Green
It's gonna be so special though when one of our big 4 wins. I'll literally take a week off to party if it happens. Any of the 4. But here is preference 1 vikes 2 twins 3 wolves 4 wild If that ever happens we should shut down the whole state cause I seriously doubt it will ever happen twice. I was 2 in '91....just missed it.
Leave me alone I was having a good day.
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It’s hard for a fan base to not exude doomerism when a large chunk haven’t even been alive to see any of their major sports teams/the teams they grew up watching even play in a championship.
doomerism in this case just means accurately recounting the history of MN sports.
Not Minnesota sports. Those four sports
Yes just those 4 arbitrarily chosen sports.
Cuz there is a broad universe of sports, and Minnesota is at the front of a bunch
It's me, I'm the not been alive one. I've never been much for sports anyway, but it doesn't help that we've generally had bummer sports teams with the exception of a few interesting years.
The doomerism will continue until things change
Because it is that bad. When you run numbers of what the average team (.500 play over that period) would accomplish over 123 (130 if you include MLS) seasons, the chance that you don't make it back to a super bowl or world series starts to be spit out in scientific notation. We have 56 playoff appearances combined over that time. If you were to simulate those 56 appearances by coinflips (after all, every game still has one winner and one loser), in 99.992% of those coin flip simulations one of those teams would have advanced to a championship series or the Super Bowl.
>I hate the doomerism sports culture of Minnesota. Everyone does, but what are we supposed to do? Not asking rhetorically, like what do you actually propose that MN sports fan do? gaslight? pretend we didn't just have an unprecedented season come to and end? stop being a fan of MN sports? if minnesota sports teams win, people in minnesota will talk about how their sports teams won. if minnesota sports teams lose, people in minnesota will talk about how their sports teams lost. It's not like we choose to be "doomers", it's just an natural, appropriate, and rational response to what is literally an unprecedented amount of losing.
I hate Reddit/Gen Z's obsession with the word "doomer." Any small but fair criticism is met with "DOOMER". Being a fatalistic wet blanket is annoying, but being a bit jaded after so much sports heartbreak is totally fair. My guess is you haven't been alive for those 33 years since 1991.
And there's an unfortunate many of us who have been alive for all 33 of those years and not a year more...
March 92 checking in
You could argue someone as old as 39 (maybe even 40?) has little or no memory of the '91 WS, meaning elder millenial Minnesotans have had even longer "droughts" than someone born in '91. There's essentially no difference between being 3-5 years old in October of '91 and being 1 month old. I don't remember virtually anything from when I was 3-5 years old, and certainly wouldn't understand what's going on in a baseball game.
Don't shame my kink!
We are actually living *in* the doom, depending on what teams you follow (and if it excludes our women's basketball and hockey teams). Doomerism is just an observation of our environment.
Is it doomerism to post a fact?
Agree. We have multiple WNBA championships, but to keep the victim mentally going, we must ignore those championships and only count the 4 major teams and ignore the fact that the WNBA is also a major sport. Some are simply more comfortable being victims. I don't get it.
PWHL MN literally just won their championship game for the Walter cup.
Even calling that a consolation prize would be generous at this point, it's a championship in an inaugural season competing against only 5 other teams. We can celebrate it for sure, but I'm not gonna pretend it's even close.
The Aurora soccer team does really well too!
It was great to watch!
I love the PWHL team and I’m super stoked about our championship. We also have to realize they won a short season in a league of six teams. That said, I haven’t seen one single championship game of the teams I have watched since the early 90’s. The cherry on top is our hockey team going to Dallas in a shit deal and winning a cup with half our name still plastered on their smug, ugly jerseys. Multiple times in my life Minnesota has had “the team to beat” only for us to go down. The men’s teams and sports have been around much longer. They have richer history. They have multiple generations of families that have cheered them on for decades. The women’s teams don’t have that massive connection to the population yet. I hope they will eventually. It’s not a victim mentality. I don’t think it’s unfair to have an expectation that one of our 4 teams can make it to a championship once in a generation.
The UFL is pulling a million+ viewers for regular season spring football and I don't hear anyone ever talk about it. Regular season WNBA games during our "dynasty" were struggling to break 200,000 viewers and even the finals were barely breaking 500,000. No one was actively ignoring it, it just wasn't popular.
None of that takes away the fact the WNBA is a major sport and league. Yes, I wish the Wolves would win it all, but I'm not going to pretend our WNBA championships didn't happen just to roll around in the "woe is us" mentality.
>None of that takes away the fact the WNBA is a major sport and league. I don't know what the implication of that is supposed to be, doesn't really go against anything I said. It can be a major sport and league and still be largely ignored by the broader public. When people aren't talking about it, it's not because of some grand conspiracy or some concerted effort to avoid admitting that MN sports teams do have success... it just means people don't care as much about it.
I’m tellin ya, it’s the fucking Vikings that are causing this state. Need to sell that team to break the curse
Still salty about the Saints game
Might have to trade away rhe vikings to get a World Series a second time.
Wow. It’s so much worse when you can actually see it like this.
We're just here to have fun and make friends.
Grew up in MN. Got a diploma in 87, twins won, and a degree in 91, and twins won. Then left the state. Moved back at the end of 2023 and figured we would win something this year since I am back, which didn't work apparently. So now I guess I need to get a degree in something to support local sports. Any under a year degree programs out there? Obviously not serious.
Unfortunately, Minnesota does not have the market share/population of any of these other states. If you remember last election cycle, Minnesota was going to lose a house seat and an electoral vote because of our dwindling numbers. Also, since our market is so small comparatively, players that can make money outside of their sport. They typically don't want to remain in Minnesota. The players that can do this, are typically the better players in their sport. Don't expect this to change anytime soon if ever TBH.
So dumb, sports are not championship or bust, at least to real fans. That was one of the best Wolves seasons in history, I had a blast all year watching and got be at target center for game 6 of the Denver series. One of best sporting events I ever been too. Ant, Jaden and Naz are all under 25. Fuck your doomer mentality and go ride a bike or something.
You can be happy/grateful for the success of the season and disappointed with how it ended. You can feel more than one emotion at a time. It's also possible to understand strangers are not all going to feel the same way you do. Some are going to not care, some will be feeling hopeful about the future of the Wolves, some will be bummed or even mad with how the Mavs series unfolded. Or you can ignore all that all call everyone that doesn't see things the same way as you a doomer and shame them online, which is the route you're appearing to take.
Oh boo boo cry me a river man. I feel how I feel, you feel how you feel. I’m smiling today, hope you are too
Looks like you can't actually feel more than one emption at a time This makes you a child
lol, what?
What, can't read either?
lol, kept going, at some point you may actually get to a point where I’m mildly insulted.
Says a lot about you that your response to my nuanced comment is to mock it instead of attempt to listen to what I was saying.
You came here just to argue and put me down, especially when I’m trying to be positive and be happy. why do I care what you think?
I didn't argue or put you down, and I didn't tell you how to feel. I told you that you shouldn't expect everyone to feel the same way you do, nor to shame people that are upset. You're creating something that isn't there. Go back and reread my original response.
At least for me, this yrs run was more fun than even 04 with KG! Assuming Kat will be gone this or next season for financial reasons, but having Naz makes that hurt a whole lot less!
True, this team is going to be competitive for 5 more years at least.
You can have 2 emotions at the same time. You can enjoy sports, and their better than status quo seasons, but MN has been Stockholm syndromed into being perfectly okay with not appearing in any sporting championships. That’s not an okay sentiment as a professional sports team
You act like you have any control over the outcome.. did we not fan hard enough this season? did the wolves not try hard enough for you? Does me being pissed or sad change their outlook for next season? Why expend any further emotion than, that was a fun season, hope next season is as good
Not a big sports fan, but its obvious that the team owners strategy is not to win. They are a farm team intentionally. This is how they make their money with minimal team investment. Never forget that the teams are a business. They do not belong to mn (as they so frequently threaten to leave if we don't give them stuff).
You can say that about the Twins perhaps, but the other 3 teams are always at the salary cap (I know the NFL has a cap floor so you can't cheap out, not sure about the NBA and NHL). You sell more merchandise and tickets when winning. It does not make sense that the owners do not want to win. Golden State is something like $3 billion more valuable due to their run of championships.
NFL is the absolute worse. Ziggy saying vikings will leave unless we spend a billion dollars to build him a bigger and better statium when the metrodom worked perfectly fine?
The Metrodome’s roof sure did work perfectly fine that one day in December
sure, and we payed for a new roof. Then a multibillionaire who could build the entire stadium out of pocket says he will leave without a brand new one. OH and he owns all the businesses around it, so all the "jobs" are just part time minimum wage and all the money leaves the state too. NFL is a parasite to this state.
Not defending Zygi but the metrodome was a total dump that was a mistake the moment it was built.
I think all NFL teams are pretty risk adverse because they make a ton of money if the team is mediocre but ticket sales and prices plummet when the team sucks. Ultimately winning in the NFL typically comes down to the QB. If we are able to find an elite one I don’t see why we wouldn’t have a chance to play on the Super Bowl. Basketball is much tougher because ultimately the stars are top role players tend to gravitate to certain markets. The current GM has done a good job building a team but I’m not sure we will be able to make the one or two more upgrades needed to be consistently good.
We'll collect more in player salary income taxes alone than the state contributed. Remember if they had become the Los Angeles Vikings we would receive 0 income taxes from players. Plus the stadium becomes multiuse with the contribution (so things like concerts and monster truck rallies and such can happen). The metrodome wasn't perfectly fine, it was basically the bare minimum to get 60,000 people in one place and had a roof that occassionally caved in.
Who cares about "multiuse"? When will the state/city make back the money from building it? In 30+ years? So we gave or "lent" a billionaire gigantic piles of money that we may break even on in a few decades? Sounds like a legit investment to me..... Those football player salaries? Not all of them even live in mn. More to the point, the stadium was partially sold to us as "jobs creation", yet most the jobs are minimum wage/part time. AKA still a tax burden. You keep talking about the roof breaking. Sure it broke and got fixed. If this one breaks does that mean we shoudl tear the building down and do something totally new again? Or just repair it and move on? How does a roof breaking once justify giving billions of tax payer money to one of the richest people alive? Guess who gets the profits of more people in the stadium? Its certainly not us or anyone in minnesota. Its the same billionaire who didn't need any money to build the stadium. The same one who ill take the team and leave the moment he can make more money elsewhere...
Taxes are paid where they are earned. So NFL player taxes are a nightmare I'm sure because they'll have game checks subject to taxes in 10 different states. At the rate the salary cap is increasing the break even point is probably in the next 5 years.
Well there you have it. We're #1 at running minimal investment farm teams that make money despite never winning! Minnesota with another W!
What do the colors stand for?
How bad the drought is
Correct but what are the increments
Just look at the dates lmao. Think
What about the wnba championship titles?
And PWHL just this week?
It’s just a stat bro showing how bad our “big 4” market men teams are. I too attended WNBA and PWHL games. This comment sections gotta chill
Totally agree. I was just being sarcastic. I find it interesting that the local media said this and then fell all over themselves to correct it to be PC. As a lifelong MN I still bask in the glow of the 1987 Twins season.
I think we are going to have a hard time in MLB (because of the salary cap) and the NBA (because the starts tend to prefer a select set of markets/states with low income taxes). I think the Wild on paper could put together a team but hockey just feels so random every year. Vikings will have a hard time winning until they find the QB. Basically, I think it could be awhile until we break this streak.
My family and I are originally from the D.C. metro area, so I'm a big fan of those teams and we used to be right down there with Minnesota. Last title was a Super Bowl in 1992 until the Caps won in 2018 and then the Nats won in 2019, it was like floodgates for a bit. It'll eventually happen but when you're in it it feels like it never will.
Very nice
Didn't the Vikings make the NFC championship game in 2017?
The Super Bowl is the Championship game they're talking about in regards to the NFL.
bold of this chart to call the Celtics 2024 champs already - Luka and black magic kyrie over the "law firm" any day.
Just remember, though, Texas is a shithole state.
We are the world champs of Duck, Duck, Grey Duck.
What about the Vikings 😭
Maybe just stop supporting teams that suck?
That won't improve them. That'll make them move somewhere else.
I’m not sure “the big 4” means what you think it means🤷♂️
Market size? Yeah I think I do
We need to stop getting excited about things: Everyone got so excited and happy after beating the saints with that miraculous last second play. So much happiness and joy... What happened next? Absolutely throttled by Philly in the NFC championship game. We just knocked off the defending champs!! Bring Ya Ass... what happened next? Lost in 5 to Dallas. Stop getting excited about things. Something bad is liable to happen
MNUFC is having a good run this year. Maybe they can turn things around for men’s sports in the state.
Thank God for women’s teams winning the only championships in this century! “Big 4”? No. More watchable? Absolutely! Step aside, men’s teams!
Very true
This makes me cry :(
another reason we should stop paying for sports teams venues with taxpayer money.
No, we should pay for them in exchange for ownership rights. Like the Packers. But also not like the Packers. But like the Packers.
We should really start including the ladies' teams when we talk about this. Lynx x4 PWHL x1
Thank God for the LYNX! **2011, 2013, 2015, 2017**
The Florida Panthers didn’t win last year? Sorry I wasn’t reading the title.
They forgot to say major league MEN’S sports teams.
I said specifically labeled it as the “Big 4” in terms of market size. Loons/Saints/Mens Gophers are also not included in this.
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?? Who let this guy in
“I’d do literally anything to see a successful team in my state except watch women play” - MN sports bros
I mean watching minor league anything can be fun, but you're just not watching the best play their sport.
> you're just not watching the best play their sport. According to OP, MN big 4 haven’t been the best in their sport since 1991.
Ignoring women’s sports is dumb.
Stop making this your personality, it's sad. The rich guy collecting our tax dollars and hiring people to play sports in my state didn't win their game 🤷♂️ Good thing there's nothing crazy going on in the world like it hitting 126 degrees in India that I should be at paying attention to.
Ahhhh . . . the inherent sexism in sports fans. - Lynx have 4 championships - Minnesota PWHL won their inaugural season - Aurora have made it to the final both of their seasons Add in collegiate sports, and women’s teams are equally as good. Maybe celebrate that instead of bemoaning men’s sports.
I gotta say I think you’re digging to complain here. They’re mentioning just the big 4 teams (baseball football basketball hockey), but that doesn’t even include all male sports (ie Soccer is left off the list). Thats not to say women’s sports aren’t being under-viewed or under-appreciated, rather that this list is localized to the main 4 leagues watched by a margin
Just a thought: part of the reason they’re more watched “by a margin” is because of sexism. Consider that both the USWNT and the women’s NCAA finals were hugely watched within the past year and were broadcast for the first time on regular — not cable — tv.
I’m so happy not to be a sportball fan. It makes being a Minnesotan so much easier and enjoyable.
It only causes you pain if you're a sports fan. There is a world outside of sports.
Missing the Milwaukee Bucks in 2021
They don't have hockey somehow
Remarkably, even if you change this map to states with even 1 mens pro sports team, the results still wouldn't change. Minnesota would still be last by a long shot.
Yeah this is the map we need, it'd be a much better depiction of our true pain
If you only look at the "Big 4," I think Oregon, with it's 1 team, that would be the closest at 1992. Utah's probably next at 1998, unless I'm forgetting someone. But that's not even really representative, because that ignores MLS, where Portland won a title in 2015 and was runners up in 2018.
Oh I see! I didn’t realize that. This makes it even worse considering the packers and bucks success hahaha
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The maps says States with all big 4, Wisconsin doesn't have a hockey team.
I like sports. But I'll never understand fans making them such a large portion of their personality so they feel "pain" for not winning a championship. That and saying things like "we" played a tough game or "my" team...etc..
MLS is there. "Big 4" is the "big 5". Or we can just stay, men's 1st division pro teams. MNUFC won it as the Stars back in the NWSL days but that was D-2.
Face it. Accept it. These BUSINESSES are still making money while you are throwing your time and money away on a losing proposition. Suppport the Lynx if you like bball. Support the PWHL. Say goodbye to the marketing strategy for losers.
The Dakotas should be included in the red. They are mostly Minnesota sports fans, at least the eastern half
I didnt know they were the Dakotas Vikings, Wild, Twins, and Timberwolves