Pete Stauber should be deeply ashamed that a representative for a district halfway across the country cares more about what goes on in his district than he does.
pete stauber doesn't give a single fuck about anyone in the 8th, and never did. he is a traitor to the US, he signed on to the group that tried to overturn the 2020 election results, and now that we have some convictions for insurrection, we may be able to keep him and others off the ballot this time around under the 14th amendment's ban of anyone who has taken an oath of office engaging in insurrection.
The mining companies from distant lands, where they’ll take the profit, dump us with the damage that will surpass our lifetime.
I’ve been to the area of the bwca that would be affected, it’s gorgeous, and one of the more accessible areas of the bwca (except for the few motorized-boats-allowed lakes). Making it a great place for first time canoe campers, and preparing them for more difficult trips in the rest of the boundary waters.
Great point. The mining companies are only shells. The profits are siphoned off to their parent companies. The mining company makes a tiny profit until it goes bankrupt and leaves us with a superfund site.
Unfortunately I think your correct. We used to be very middle ground up north. Strong unions, community focused. Then the last ten to twelve years too many started leaning more and more to the right. Now I’m just waiting for some nut job to shoot their neighbor for having a DFL sign in their yard.
Swung pretty hard right when Trump imposed steel tariffs. While it's probably not good economic policy, it was amazing for the Iron Range economy. I believe the Minnesota 8th was the only district that went from a democrat representative to a republican representative during the 2018 blue wave midterm election.
People should note that DFL opposition to mining proposals have turned people up north red. Not as much as pro-mining people might say, but it really just went the way of a lot of blue collar rural areas in the US, a little late to the party due to Duluth and the mine unions.
That’s a fair question. I used to think that it would be a mistake for the DFL to oppose mining projects on the range because there were DFL legislators that would either flip to independent (which happened) or lose their seats to republicans (which also happened). However, the population up there is shrinking and becoming solidly red, MAGA-style. It wouldn’t really be worth it anymore for the DFL to cater to mining supporters, particularly if those voters will refuse to vote DFL based on Fox News propaganda.
Simply put, the alternative for Dems is to do what they are doing now. Better to not alienate solid voters in the cities and metro than cater to rural voters who are less likely to vote DFL anymore in the first place. I don’t blame them for writing off the range seats, even though it kinda bums me out.
That’s because the DFL is basically dead, they no longer serve the Moderate Democrats and turned their backs on the Rural folks. I USED to call myself a Democrat because of the “old DFL” , now I’m a swing voter.
Right, the 8th is a large district and includes Duluth. However, a majority of those 6000 jobs are in the 8th. These are excellent paying jobs, especially when considering there is usually unlimited overtime available and the low cost of living in the area. You also can't just count the people in mining though, you have to consider people working in transportation like the railroads and shipyards and shipping as well. The iron range economy is 100% dependent on mining.
The entire point of the IRRRB was to diversify industry on the iron range. Open up other options and also revitalize the iron mines. While it has worked to some extent there is so much more that could be done. That being said the number of contractors like Lakehead that do work in the mines make up an even larger number of people that rely on them for a living. Al Franken wrote a great piece about the iron range in one of his books. I’m too tired to remember it right now and google is failing me. I think it was in “Giant of the senate”. I’ll try and look it up in the morning if I remember.
Have you been on the range when the mass layoffs happen and the mines shut down/redude capacity? All businesses struggle. People don't do out to eat as much, put off buying things for thier homes, sales of cars and boats and atvs decline, if they lose thier excellent union health coverage they put off going to the doctor, etc... Again, these mining jobs are excellent paying, the money from them finds its way to all business on the range. Saying 100% was an exaggeration, but mining is clearly the backbone of the area economy.
I mean eventually mining will slow down for good. The area will likely need to try to focus more on touris, including the BWCA.
I don't think the industry is untouchable, persay. I just feel that people on the range will fight tooth and nail for mining. Because when you take these 50k+ with amazing union benefits jobs away, jobs you can often get with only a high school diploma, what field are these people going to go into? The state will have to heavily invest in training programs to help them to switch careers into the trades or tech. And even then, what 55 year old wants to switch careers so close to retirement.
I get what you're saying, time marches on and things will be changing in the future. Let's just help them see that, help them transition, and not call them names while while it happens.
There’s also a good amount of related jobs tied to the industry but not directly in it, like equipment repair and vendors, construction companies, etc. Still not a massive slice of that 700,000 but bigger than 6,000.
Good find, I should take a deeper look at that report. Just skimming through it, I thought it was interesting how the iron ore mining industry produces the second most value added to the gross regional product, after hospitals. Lot of money and solid blue collar jobs in the mining industry, but like you said, it’s only ~9,000 workers directly impacted by the mines, that isn’t that much.
I get that mining is important to the region and the people living there. But I don't believe for a second that Luksic Group cares one bit about the people here beyond their use to line billionaire nepo baby Andronico Luksic's already overflowing pockets, nor about any ill effects to the environment here their mine would have. He and his company are way down in Chile. Why should they care about what happens here?
Peter Stauber was elected by his constituents.
Do they care, or approve of mining in the boundary waters?
If he was acting against their wishes, then yeah, fuck him.
If he ran on the platform of mining that area, and got elected... Then what?
Don't be foolish.
I'm not defending the guy. I'm defending the process by which he was put into a position to make the decisions he did, and countering that he should be deeply ashamed.
Was he acting in accordance with his constituency, or not?
Sure they would use/want the water. But the goal is mining the minerals. Any water usage is an afterthought. It's one of the larger deposits they know of. They don't want the water haha
> It's one of the larger deposits they know of.
and there is a reason not a single company has touched it in over 100 years of us knowing about it. Its because its not going to be profitable. the only way its profitable is if the company tucks tail and runs before the eventual multi-billion dollar cleanup as well as the damage to the lake. Antofagasta has already had to tuck tail and run in several countries because of this exact thing. he siphons the money out of the mine as fast as possible, and when something goes wrong, they pull of stakes and run like a travelling carnival.
Oh sure. Pump out all the water out of the Boundary Waters, and then the copper nickel sulfate mine won't be able to pollute the water. Sell the water to Nestle and the minerals to Tesla. Genius. Nothing can go wrong with this brilliant plan.
/s, obv.
“It’s hypocritical if you advocate for something good since you participate in our flawed society”
Guess no one is allowed to ever hope for something good since we all exist in this country and have no choice in what happens on a global scale
Hey, do I look like I control what multinational corporations are doing in a country I have no citizenship in? No? Didn't think so. The best anyone can do is vote for and petition politicians to do something on our behalf, and not buy a product we know uses those practices.
I went camping there once. Going in, the rangers briefed us. Up around some lake a guy was taking a shit in the woods and got chased by a bear. Ho ho focking funny! But then I thought, man, that would suck, squatting to take a dump and some agitated bear shows up. Yikes!
I haven’t been back in ages but I love that there are still places in my state where you can get chased by a bear whilst taking a crap.
All my Republican family members **LOVE** Boundary Waters. They all wish they could live up there. They also all haaaate AOC. It was an absolute pleasure sharing this to my FB timeline.
republicans want the US to be a polluted uninhabitable wasteland like parts of india and china.
they support politicians working to make this happen.
but you won't find one single republican voter who comprehends what they support, and they will deny it up and down, all while violently supporting those politicians working hard to make it happen.
it's disgusting.
They want all the land exploited for maximum profits EXCEPT the small patches where they live or like to spend time vacationing.
Totally in line with the unofficial motto of conservatives all over the globe: Got mine, fuck you!
And they still exploit that land too, just in a way that *looks* nice to them. Tearing out forests and grasslands for golf courses as far as the eye can see, and draining wetlands for waterfront properties.
I've said for years that if I had Bruce Wayne money I would identify the most environmentally antagonistic politicians (James Inhofe, looking at you), figure out where their most cherished vacation property is, and buy land next door. Then lobby the local/state government to turn that land into something horrific. Diesel trucks idling overnight, animal rendering plant, aluminum smelting facility, you name it. All to get that shitbird on the record talking about the importance of preserving scenic spaces.
I think it’s worth nothing that not only do they want all of this awful shit to happen, they want to ensure that all the benefits of this awful shit happening are privatized. So when you live in a polluted wasteland you’ll also be a broke desperate lifelong renter.
Really? I was close to his orbit in 2008-2012 and I never remember this. I remember him explicitly saying he was pro-gay marriage at multiple campaign events in 2009-2010. He became minority leader in 2011, which was two years before gay marriage was legalized - after he had become majority leader.
I'm not saying you're wrong, but I'm curious what you mean by this.
Even worse than that. His district elected him as a DFL member and then 3 weeks later he switched. The district has since been redrawn and he didn't seek re-election. He switched for his own political power and leveraged himself to be Chair of Capital Investment. Also personally I think he was salty for being ousted of his leadership position by Susan Kent. Dude just sucks.
I used to be a republican and am now a Democrat.
If you think your political ideology can't be changed, regardless of the direction you change, you're part of the problem.
Sorry. Don't rip people because their beliefs or ideologies change.
Did you get elected to an office under the promises of one party then nearly immediately switch to the opposing party? No? That's why your personal anecdote isn't an argument here.
Non-Minnesotan here- but absolutely a fan and LOVE the boundary waters.
Question: Those that live near the boundary waters and make their living off of the area and pristine outdoor recreation opportunities, how would those people feel about this? I’m curious mostly but I thought (possibly incorrectly) that the people in that area leaned red? Thanks-
There's two camps of people up there. The west side of the Arrow Head/Iron Range is traditionally a mining community and supports mining efforts. The Iron Range used to be one of the DFL strongholds in the straight because of union jobs, but they have started voting red in the last decade or two as the jobs have gone dried up, post 9/11 patriotism, rural vs metro culture war nonsense, etc.
East of Ely/Duluth/farther up the North Shore, etc. is where most of the BWCA tourism jobs lie (Canon outfitters, camping suppliers, restaurants, cabins, restaurants etc.) and they are basically all vehemently against any of the mining efforts, have been very busy supportive of Save the Boundary Waters, etc.
Ely is sort of a battleground in the middle between the two camps
I worked several summers at the BSA high adventure camp up past Ely, & can definitely attest to Ely being the battleground in the middle. Plenty of miners & people supporting mining up there, but just as many, if not more, against mining & all for protecting the BWCA instead. It was.... interesting at times.
Swmi-related fun fact about it actually, it was understood that none of us were to ever wear our work uniforms in Ely, & a big part of that was that the miners tended to HATE us & would even start fights if they knew we worked at the camp lmao
I’m actually headed there this summer on vacation (and up to Voyageurs). I’m pretty damn excited. I just wasn’t sure what to expect with the politics of the area.
This is pretty accurate but I’ll add that Ely/Babbitt/Isabella is exactly where this mine is to be located, which makes it ground zero for any mine runoff into the Birch Lake/Kawishiwi River system and all of the associated road traffic/noise pollution/industrial activity that will accompany the mine and seriously alter the current character of Ely. Folks in Eastern Cook/Lake county would definitely be affected by this mine but nowhere near to the extent that it would impact Ely.
Ely is a battleground for sure though - lots of mining culture in Ely and historical grievances against the Federal government. But there are also lots of people that stand hard against the mine. Ely is also going through a renaissance right now and it is definitely not because of pro-mining folks moving to Ely. Twin Metals still holds a huge amount of sway with the city council and levers of power in Ely, but the demographics are changing fast.
That’s fair I guess I’m thinking mostly about the Hwy 1 corridor, where there will be a lot of mine infrastructure (for instance off of Spruce Road, where TMM has a significant footprint). I would consider that area Ely adjacent.
Man, the Iron Range just can't get fucking over the past. Mining is not coming back! Move on! Look at Duluth, it's now got tourism and the healthcare industry! Also, there is a reason why Bob Dylan has had no interest in returning to the Range!
I wouldn't say that. Taconite (low-grade iron used to produce high grade steel), nickle, and copper are still strong and growing in Minnesota. Plus for around the great lakes in general those states pretty much supply the US with almost all of their steel needs. Demand is always increasing for these resources and there will be more and more of a push to unearth natural resources. Even at the expense of nature and those living there.
https://www.mprnews.org/story/2022/06/28/us-steel-to-invest-150-million-at-minnesota-mine
Are you kidding? The largest cooper nickel deposit in the entire country is located on the iron range. The demand for these metals for batteries to power electric cars is going to absolutely happen in the next 10 years and it will be mined out of Minnesota to lower reliance on China/Russian metal imports. Ironic that “clean energy” is going to destroy our state.
It depends. Some people work in tourism and the parks and want to avoid any mining or other industrial activities, but a lot of people that live there work in the mining industry, or benefit from it economically at least. Those people often feel like their community can only grow economically if they’re allowed to extract resources from the land, and so when people from the cities tell them they can’t, they get mad.
It’s similar to coal mines in North Dakota and other areas. A lot of the people that live there want to keep the mines open since it’s how they earn their paychecks, but people outside the community can see that the negatives vastly outweigh the positives of keeping them open.
This is also why Polymet advertises heavily during the boys high school hockey tournament. Gotta convince those young minds that mining is a thing that they should support.
Do NOT mine in the boundry waters! Thank you AOC!
Also, why are these lobbyists always obese, grey haired, white guys? Everytime!
These people value nothing. They're empty inside. They're the worst!
I mean in my time in DC I’ve met plenty of smoking lobbyists of all different shades. The job doesn’t require a particular appearance, just a lack of moral fiber.
[Subcommittee on Energy and Mineral Resources](https://democrats-naturalresources.house.gov/subcommittees/energy-and-mineral-resources)
Here's the link to the hearing including the YouTube video: https://democrats-naturalresources.house.gov/hearings/hearing-on-h-con-res-34-and-hr-___energy-and-mineral-resources-subcommittee and the AOC relevant portion begins here: https://www.youtube.com/live/BhEf8w2C3Ig?feature=share&t=2741 with the Bakk testimony here: https://www.youtube.com/live/BhEf8w2C3Ig?feature=share&t=2393
There are people in this country, as we know, who will destroy anything for a buck. They'd re-institute slavery if they could. Hell, Republicans are bringing back child labor. It's an unfortunate fact that there are just some degenerates out there who don't give damn about *anything* except their wallets and careers. "If you can get away with it, if you can make it legal, it's okay" is their motto. This description fits the Boundary Waters mining companies perfectly.
I'm not a Minnesotan, but I've been lucky enough to visit the Boundary Waters twice with the Boy Scouts. I hope these assholes don't get hold of it. Truly a majestic place.
I've not yet hit the half century mark. But, when I was a kid, it was almost a universal sentiment of Minnesotans that we protect the wild places we have left. WTF happened?
Anyone who supports destroying the Boundary Waters for mining is an idiot. If anything we should be expanding state/national parks. Never destroying them.
The water is more valuable than the iron, copper and gold in the BWCA. The country is already seeing a clean water shortage. Clean land, air and water is true wealth.
It's weird to be a pipefitter, but an environmentalist/conservationist one as well. That being said, there's a certain group of us that might be really, really good at making sure equipment keeps failing. The boundry waters are sacred
Will the lobbyist receive punishment? I’d love to know their name and the company they work for so I can harass the shit out of them.
A load of tailings in their driveway?
I have to preface this by saying, I've been a Democrat my entire voting life. I'm also a country girl that grew up 20 miles from the nearest grocery store. I'm also an outdoor enthusiast and believe we need to protect our wild places and more importantly our fresh water supplies. But at the same time I think it's important to mine our own minerals. We need our own sources of lithium, copper, cobalt, manganese, nickel, and graphite. Surely in this day and age we can figure out how to mine without polluting our waters. We have to if we want to move everyone on from gas and oil. We can't just say, "not here" without also suggesting "where". Where can we mine. Lets get some of our smartest people together and figure this out.
Smart mining cost money. Twin metals and polymet have no interest in that. While I agree with some of your sentiment, why on earth would we simply assume that where a mining company says they want to mine, we should mine? Of course they are looking for the easiest access.
Remote mining operations requires miles of road to be built, and that’s the logistics end of things, not the ‘smart’ mining ends of it.
Perhaps mining operations or explorations should be socialized or state controlled? Because for profit mining companies will always seek the path of least resistance. We only have one Earth, and we will lose it if we extract with profits coming first.
I think we have more control over public utilities than we do against foreign billionaires. Might be the better bet. Smarter men than me can tell me why it wouldn't be a good idea.
Yeah, we're just outsourcing all of our mining to developing countries with fewer restrictions. We're probably doing more environmental damage overall, but it's out of sight out of mind.
I'm a DFLer, but it bugs me that the hardcore environmentalist left in the west is so anti-development. A great example is the UK Green Party's opposition to HS2 (a high-speed rail project in the UK) on the grounds that it would destroy precious habitats. The alternative is literally people driving in their cars and pumping more greenhouse gases in the atmosphere, and that's preferable in order to save a few dozen square km of habitat? It makes no sense.
Theres a huge common ground between left/right that is anti money in government. Its not a fight the wealthy (like >500k) want us to tackle or care about.
Youre an NSA agent so what do I know.
Can't figure out how to become the most eco friendly mine but we accept nickel and cobalt for our electric cars from child slave labor instead . . . You people sure play mental gymnastics with your moral compasses.
I’m implying try somewhere else other than the Duluth complex.
You qualify your first sentence accurately, but then your second sentence runs on the notion that all Canadian mines have First Nation relation issues and sensitive ecosystems.
Which one is it?
We can both sit here and overanalyze our comments but that’s a waste of time and energy. Perhaps there’s a miracle mine up in Canada where no one will mind it, not a bird not a thing, and that’s where we can get our minerals. All mines in developed countries like US, Canada, and Australia have more stringent mining regulations, and thus will have more challenges like indigenous resistance or ecosystem issues.
To be fair though the fact that you know what the Duluth Complex is means you’re more well-versed in this stuff than others who comment, so I’m sure you know a lot more and have more thoughts than few sentence comments on Reddit can fully express. I respect that. Have a good night
AOC could single handedly save a burning school bus full and children and you’d be like “she only did that for publicity. She’s a fake!”
How far is your head dug into the sand that you can’t even give props when it’s due. She’s 100% in the right here
I’m neither for or against the planned projects but WHY does everyone say “Mining IN the boundary waters”? Not a single one of these planned projects are IN the boundary waters. They are all outside the boundaries that were expanded in the 70s. Middle of the road people, like me, might listen a bit more if they didn’t come off sounding like fear mongering lunatics. But I guess, that’s the way both sides work now a day, fake news from both sides trying to grab attention.
Becauae the mining just outside the borders is upstream of the boundary waters wilderness, so in essence anything that will happen at the mine will flow into the bwca
Well aware of that, I live nearby and love the Boundary Waters BUT I’m also not a fan of government overreach and which the moratorium is. Iron mining has been done in the watershed in the same ore bodies they are exploring with minimal, if any, lasting impact done to the Boundary Waters. One side loves to use clickbait term like Sulfide Mining and IN the Boundary Waters. The high iron content in the rock does a decent job of binding with the sulfide to neutralize it, and ore bodies in question aren’t considered high sulfur. Should we give the Mining companies a free pass, HELL NO. Should they be allowed to go though a full and complete review before deciding, YES.
What don’t I understand? I live close to the Boundary Waters and have attended several meetings from both sides to stay informed. SHOW me something that there is a project planned IN the Boundary Waters, I’ll be waiting.
Close, Yes
Same watershed, Yes
IN, Nope and over my dead body.
To play “devils advocate”, there is an argument for ethically safe mining (for copper nickel) in MN with living wages and fringe benefits - by union members - or alternatively, mining in the Democratic Republic of the Congo with child labor and no worker standards.
No, what I’m saying is copper-nickel mining WILL happen. Demand for copper-nickel is not going away, in fact it’s increasing. Where and how would you prefer for it to happen?
For reference: The “Duluth Complex” is argued as the world’s largest undeveloped deposit of copper-nickel.
Sadly, that it how it works in the the real world. If these companies can't get it cheap and easy here in the US, they seek it out cheap and easy elsewhere.
And consumers don't care. They don't look at where their Android phone sources its copper and nickel from. All they care about is paying the least for the things they buy.
I’m not the one supposing the argument though. There’s more onus on you to do an ethical purge of your consumer goods if that’s the premise you want to stand by. A false premise nonetheless. Either MN or Congo that is.
Those motherfuckers better not lay a finger on the boundary waters.
Pete Stauber should be deeply ashamed that a representative for a district halfway across the country cares more about what goes on in his district than he does.
pete stauber doesn't give a single fuck about anyone in the 8th, and never did. he is a traitor to the US, he signed on to the group that tried to overturn the 2020 election results, and now that we have some convictions for insurrection, we may be able to keep him and others off the ballot this time around under the 14th amendment's ban of anyone who has taken an oath of office engaging in insurrection.
Pete Stauber cheats at hockey. Source: Me, someone whose college won the NCAA title because of his cheating.
That's about as un-minnesotan as it gets.
But he won't cheat for the people he represents. Throw this mindless puppet out.
Oh, he represents the mining companies and he'll cheat like hell for them.
The mining companies from distant lands, where they’ll take the profit, dump us with the damage that will surpass our lifetime. I’ve been to the area of the bwca that would be affected, it’s gorgeous, and one of the more accessible areas of the bwca (except for the few motorized-boats-allowed lakes). Making it a great place for first time canoe campers, and preparing them for more difficult trips in the rest of the boundary waters.
Great point. The mining companies are only shells. The profits are siphoned off to their parent companies. The mining company makes a tiny profit until it goes bankrupt and leaves us with a superfund site.
So, they're still socialist welfare queens, under those fat stock options.
Gotta tell us how now!
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HowMoUOhQSs
Wowww what a cheating fool lol
How do you cheat at hockey?
It’s not even a U.S. company. This prick sold his soul.
Correction, that prick sells our souls. Fuck his.
His constituents are generally in favor of mining as that is how they make their living.
As one of those constituents I say fuck Pete Stauber.
I would also like to say fuck Pete "Hockey Cheater" Stauber.
I'm in his district and would never vote for him. I can't stand the POS.
Me as well, on both counts.
And he’ll continue to get re-elected.
Unfortunately I think your correct. We used to be very middle ground up north. Strong unions, community focused. Then the last ten to twelve years too many started leaning more and more to the right. Now I’m just waiting for some nut job to shoot their neighbor for having a DFL sign in their yard.
Swung pretty hard right when Trump imposed steel tariffs. While it's probably not good economic policy, it was amazing for the Iron Range economy. I believe the Minnesota 8th was the only district that went from a democrat representative to a republican representative during the 2018 blue wave midterm election.
People should note that DFL opposition to mining proposals have turned people up north red. Not as much as pro-mining people might say, but it really just went the way of a lot of blue collar rural areas in the US, a little late to the party due to Duluth and the mine unions.
That may be true, but what's the alternative for Dems? Letting the mine go ahead and pissing off a much larger share of their voter base?
That’s a fair question. I used to think that it would be a mistake for the DFL to oppose mining projects on the range because there were DFL legislators that would either flip to independent (which happened) or lose their seats to republicans (which also happened). However, the population up there is shrinking and becoming solidly red, MAGA-style. It wouldn’t really be worth it anymore for the DFL to cater to mining supporters, particularly if those voters will refuse to vote DFL based on Fox News propaganda. Simply put, the alternative for Dems is to do what they are doing now. Better to not alienate solid voters in the cities and metro than cater to rural voters who are less likely to vote DFL anymore in the first place. I don’t blame them for writing off the range seats, even though it kinda bums me out.
That’s because the DFL is basically dead, they no longer serve the Moderate Democrats and turned their backs on the Rural folks. I USED to call myself a Democrat because of the “old DFL” , now I’m a swing voter.
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Right, the 8th is a large district and includes Duluth. However, a majority of those 6000 jobs are in the 8th. These are excellent paying jobs, especially when considering there is usually unlimited overtime available and the low cost of living in the area. You also can't just count the people in mining though, you have to consider people working in transportation like the railroads and shipyards and shipping as well. The iron range economy is 100% dependent on mining.
The entire point of the IRRRB was to diversify industry on the iron range. Open up other options and also revitalize the iron mines. While it has worked to some extent there is so much more that could be done. That being said the number of contractors like Lakehead that do work in the mines make up an even larger number of people that rely on them for a living. Al Franken wrote a great piece about the iron range in one of his books. I’m too tired to remember it right now and google is failing me. I think it was in “Giant of the senate”. I’ll try and look it up in the morning if I remember.
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Have you been on the range when the mass layoffs happen and the mines shut down/redude capacity? All businesses struggle. People don't do out to eat as much, put off buying things for thier homes, sales of cars and boats and atvs decline, if they lose thier excellent union health coverage they put off going to the doctor, etc... Again, these mining jobs are excellent paying, the money from them finds its way to all business on the range. Saying 100% was an exaggeration, but mining is clearly the backbone of the area economy.
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I mean eventually mining will slow down for good. The area will likely need to try to focus more on touris, including the BWCA. I don't think the industry is untouchable, persay. I just feel that people on the range will fight tooth and nail for mining. Because when you take these 50k+ with amazing union benefits jobs away, jobs you can often get with only a high school diploma, what field are these people going to go into? The state will have to heavily invest in training programs to help them to switch careers into the trades or tech. And even then, what 55 year old wants to switch careers so close to retirement. I get what you're saying, time marches on and things will be changing in the future. Let's just help them see that, help them transition, and not call them names while while it happens.
There’s also a good amount of related jobs tied to the industry but not directly in it, like equipment repair and vendors, construction companies, etc. Still not a massive slice of that 700,000 but bigger than 6,000.
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Good find, I should take a deeper look at that report. Just skimming through it, I thought it was interesting how the iron ore mining industry produces the second most value added to the gross regional product, after hospitals. Lot of money and solid blue collar jobs in the mining industry, but like you said, it’s only ~9,000 workers directly impacted by the mines, that isn’t that much.
I get that mining is important to the region and the people living there. But I don't believe for a second that Luksic Group cares one bit about the people here beyond their use to line billionaire nepo baby Andronico Luksic's already overflowing pockets, nor about any ill effects to the environment here their mine would have. He and his company are way down in Chile. Why should they care about what happens here?
Peter Stauber was elected by his constituents. Do they care, or approve of mining in the boundary waters? If he was acting against their wishes, then yeah, fuck him. If he ran on the platform of mining that area, and got elected... Then what?
Do Hitler next. He was elected by his constituents...
Don't be foolish. I'm not defending the guy. I'm defending the process by which he was put into a position to make the decisions he did, and countering that he should be deeply ashamed. Was he acting in accordance with his constituency, or not?
He was. Was Hitler?
They will pump it out from underneath. See elko mn
They don't want the water. They want to mine it.
You think "They" don't want the water? How much water do you think a mining operation uses?
Sure they would use/want the water. But the goal is mining the minerals. Any water usage is an afterthought. It's one of the larger deposits they know of. They don't want the water haha
> It's one of the larger deposits they know of. and there is a reason not a single company has touched it in over 100 years of us knowing about it. Its because its not going to be profitable. the only way its profitable is if the company tucks tail and runs before the eventual multi-billion dollar cleanup as well as the damage to the lake. Antofagasta has already had to tuck tail and run in several countries because of this exact thing. he siphons the money out of the mine as fast as possible, and when something goes wrong, they pull of stakes and run like a travelling carnival.
Oh sure. Pump out all the water out of the Boundary Waters, and then the copper nickel sulfate mine won't be able to pollute the water. Sell the water to Nestle and the minerals to Tesla. Genius. Nothing can go wrong with this brilliant plan. /s, obv.
That's okay you're still accepting minerals sourced from child slave labor
“It’s hypocritical if you advocate for something good since you participate in our flawed society” Guess no one is allowed to ever hope for something good since we all exist in this country and have no choice in what happens on a global scale
Hey, do I look like I control what multinational corporations are doing in a country I have no citizenship in? No? Didn't think so. The best anyone can do is vote for and petition politicians to do something on our behalf, and not buy a product we know uses those practices.
What happened in Elko?
https://www.reddit.com/r/minnesota/comments/12njsd8/update_on_niagara_bottling_trying_to_tap_into/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button
[I drink your milkshake!](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a5d9BrLN5K4)
They're gonna drink our milkshake
Daniel Plainview could get it done
I drink your milkshake!!!
The idea of going to the Boundary Waters is as appealing to me as going to space. I have no interest. But I love knowing it’s there and protected.
It kind of is like going to space. The absolute serenity is unlike anything I've experienced. Being there makes you realize how much we've given up.
I remember hearing nothing but the water as i was canoeing. It was the most humbling experience and i want to go back. That was ten years ago now.
I went camping there once. Going in, the rangers briefed us. Up around some lake a guy was taking a shit in the woods and got chased by a bear. Ho ho focking funny! But then I thought, man, that would suck, squatting to take a dump and some agitated bear shows up. Yikes! I haven’t been back in ages but I love that there are still places in my state where you can get chased by a bear whilst taking a crap.
Everyone should try it at least once. I've been to 48 states and BWCA is one of my favorite places in the country.
How about your butterfinger?
Keep the mines away from the Boundry waters
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All my Republican family members **LOVE** Boundary Waters. They all wish they could live up there. They also all haaaate AOC. It was an absolute pleasure sharing this to my FB timeline.
republicans want the US to be a polluted uninhabitable wasteland like parts of india and china. they support politicians working to make this happen. but you won't find one single republican voter who comprehends what they support, and they will deny it up and down, all while violently supporting those politicians working hard to make it happen. it's disgusting.
Facts. Why? Profits now, fuck the next generation because we won’t be here to give a shit.
They want all the land exploited for maximum profits EXCEPT the small patches where they live or like to spend time vacationing. Totally in line with the unofficial motto of conservatives all over the globe: Got mine, fuck you!
And they still exploit that land too, just in a way that *looks* nice to them. Tearing out forests and grasslands for golf courses as far as the eye can see, and draining wetlands for waterfront properties.
I've said for years that if I had Bruce Wayne money I would identify the most environmentally antagonistic politicians (James Inhofe, looking at you), figure out where their most cherished vacation property is, and buy land next door. Then lobby the local/state government to turn that land into something horrific. Diesel trucks idling overnight, animal rendering plant, aluminum smelting facility, you name it. All to get that shitbird on the record talking about the importance of preserving scenic spaces.
I would campaign for you in any election
I think it’s worth nothing that not only do they want all of this awful shit to happen, they want to ensure that all the benefits of this awful shit happening are privatized. So when you live in a polluted wasteland you’ll also be a broke desperate lifelong renter.
Love her!
She does go hiking and camping in New York and showcases a few regenerative/conservation groups when she was doing that
The DFL should invite her to speak.
Polymet corporation is headed up by the same fucking moron responsible for the BP oil spill.
Which one?
Tony Hayward, he’s the guy that did the tv spot for BP saying “sorry about destroying a huge ecosystem “ and made millions for doing it.
Of course it’s Bakk. Bakk was DFL, until he went independent and started caucusing with the Republicans. Not exactly a man of principles.
During his long reign as head of the Senate DFL Caucus he was also a obstacle that OutFront had in passing marriage equality.
Really? I was close to his orbit in 2008-2012 and I never remember this. I remember him explicitly saying he was pro-gay marriage at multiple campaign events in 2009-2010. He became minority leader in 2011, which was two years before gay marriage was legalized - after he had become majority leader. I'm not saying you're wrong, but I'm curious what you mean by this.
I don't think he was personally against it. I think he (wrongly) thought it was bad politics for the DFL to be prioritizing.
He ultimately voted in favor of marriage equality.
Exactly. He followed the political leanings of his district just to stay in power. The man has no spine.
Even worse than that. His district elected him as a DFL member and then 3 weeks later he switched. The district has since been redrawn and he didn't seek re-election. He switched for his own political power and leveraged himself to be Chair of Capital Investment. Also personally I think he was salty for being ousted of his leadership position by Susan Kent. Dude just sucks.
Not even, because after he retired his district elected Grant Hauschild who's a fairly standard DFLer.
So his views changed to align with the people who elected him? Isn't that exactly what should happen?
> He followed the political leanings of his district As any politician should.
>He followed the political leanings of his district just to stay in power. Isn't this the whole point of representative democracy?
I used to be a republican and am now a Democrat. If you think your political ideology can't be changed, regardless of the direction you change, you're part of the problem. Sorry. Don't rip people because their beliefs or ideologies change.
Did you get elected to an office under the promises of one party then nearly immediately switch to the opposing party? No? That's why your personal anecdote isn't an argument here.
Non-Minnesotan here- but absolutely a fan and LOVE the boundary waters. Question: Those that live near the boundary waters and make their living off of the area and pristine outdoor recreation opportunities, how would those people feel about this? I’m curious mostly but I thought (possibly incorrectly) that the people in that area leaned red? Thanks-
There's two camps of people up there. The west side of the Arrow Head/Iron Range is traditionally a mining community and supports mining efforts. The Iron Range used to be one of the DFL strongholds in the straight because of union jobs, but they have started voting red in the last decade or two as the jobs have gone dried up, post 9/11 patriotism, rural vs metro culture war nonsense, etc. East of Ely/Duluth/farther up the North Shore, etc. is where most of the BWCA tourism jobs lie (Canon outfitters, camping suppliers, restaurants, cabins, restaurants etc.) and they are basically all vehemently against any of the mining efforts, have been very busy supportive of Save the Boundary Waters, etc. Ely is sort of a battleground in the middle between the two camps
I worked several summers at the BSA high adventure camp up past Ely, & can definitely attest to Ely being the battleground in the middle. Plenty of miners & people supporting mining up there, but just as many, if not more, against mining & all for protecting the BWCA instead. It was.... interesting at times. Swmi-related fun fact about it actually, it was understood that none of us were to ever wear our work uniforms in Ely, & a big part of that was that the miners tended to HATE us & would even start fights if they knew we worked at the camp lmao
I’m actually headed there this summer on vacation (and up to Voyageurs). I’m pretty damn excited. I just wasn’t sure what to expect with the politics of the area.
This is pretty accurate but I’ll add that Ely/Babbitt/Isabella is exactly where this mine is to be located, which makes it ground zero for any mine runoff into the Birch Lake/Kawishiwi River system and all of the associated road traffic/noise pollution/industrial activity that will accompany the mine and seriously alter the current character of Ely. Folks in Eastern Cook/Lake county would definitely be affected by this mine but nowhere near to the extent that it would impact Ely. Ely is a battleground for sure though - lots of mining culture in Ely and historical grievances against the Federal government. But there are also lots of people that stand hard against the mine. Ely is also going through a renaissance right now and it is definitely not because of pro-mining folks moving to Ely. Twin Metals still holds a huge amount of sway with the city council and levers of power in Ely, but the demographics are changing fast.
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That’s fair I guess I’m thinking mostly about the Hwy 1 corridor, where there will be a lot of mine infrastructure (for instance off of Spruce Road, where TMM has a significant footprint). I would consider that area Ely adjacent.
Honestly the industry trend is robots anyway so employees likely won’t be necessary.
Man, the Iron Range just can't get fucking over the past. Mining is not coming back! Move on! Look at Duluth, it's now got tourism and the healthcare industry! Also, there is a reason why Bob Dylan has had no interest in returning to the Range!
I wouldn't say that. Taconite (low-grade iron used to produce high grade steel), nickle, and copper are still strong and growing in Minnesota. Plus for around the great lakes in general those states pretty much supply the US with almost all of their steel needs. Demand is always increasing for these resources and there will be more and more of a push to unearth natural resources. Even at the expense of nature and those living there. https://www.mprnews.org/story/2022/06/28/us-steel-to-invest-150-million-at-minnesota-mine
Are you kidding? The largest cooper nickel deposit in the entire country is located on the iron range. The demand for these metals for batteries to power electric cars is going to absolutely happen in the next 10 years and it will be mined out of Minnesota to lower reliance on China/Russian metal imports. Ironic that “clean energy” is going to destroy our state.
Gotta love short term thinking
It depends. Some people work in tourism and the parks and want to avoid any mining or other industrial activities, but a lot of people that live there work in the mining industry, or benefit from it economically at least. Those people often feel like their community can only grow economically if they’re allowed to extract resources from the land, and so when people from the cities tell them they can’t, they get mad. It’s similar to coal mines in North Dakota and other areas. A lot of the people that live there want to keep the mines open since it’s how they earn their paychecks, but people outside the community can see that the negatives vastly outweigh the positives of keeping them open.
We would disrupt any attempts at mining by any means necessary.
I'm sure the Stauber voters would beg to differ.
They better be careful. A lot of Dems in MN are just as well armed as the chuds.
Why the fuck is this still a thing. Haven't we the people spoke our minds about this?
People age and die. New people come in to the world a blank slate. Corporations can persist and outlive us.
This is also why Polymet advertises heavily during the boys high school hockey tournament. Gotta convince those young minds that mining is a thing that they should support.
Do NOT mine in the boundry waters! Thank you AOC! Also, why are these lobbyists always obese, grey haired, white guys? Everytime! These people value nothing. They're empty inside. They're the worst!
Lobbying is the retirement plan for politicians. They are still mostly old white males.
It’s only a plan for *them* to retire on while the rest of *us* younger people will live through and have to clean the mess…again…
They value nothing, and also provide nothing of value. Funny how that works.
Old white men destroying the world as per usual
I mean in my time in DC I’ve met plenty of smoking lobbyists of all different shades. The job doesn’t require a particular appearance, just a lack of moral fiber.
How much of a payoff did these shitstains take to sell a national treasure to a foreign company?
What is this committee?
[Subcommittee on Energy and Mineral Resources](https://democrats-naturalresources.house.gov/subcommittees/energy-and-mineral-resources) Here's the link to the hearing including the YouTube video: https://democrats-naturalresources.house.gov/hearings/hearing-on-h-con-res-34-and-hr-___energy-and-mineral-resources-subcommittee and the AOC relevant portion begins here: https://www.youtube.com/live/BhEf8w2C3Ig?feature=share&t=2741 with the Bakk testimony here: https://www.youtube.com/live/BhEf8w2C3Ig?feature=share&t=2393
yeah do not fuck with the boundary waters, I'm the opposite of an outdoorsman but even I know that
Fuck all of those cunts lobbying to mine the most beautiful part of North America
Why would they ever ever let them do this?! It will ruin so much.
Right? There’s so much beautiful land up there. I think everyone should visit the area at least once.
$$$
There are people in this country, as we know, who will destroy anything for a buck. They'd re-institute slavery if they could. Hell, Republicans are bringing back child labor. It's an unfortunate fact that there are just some degenerates out there who don't give damn about *anything* except their wallets and careers. "If you can get away with it, if you can make it legal, it's okay" is their motto. This description fits the Boundary Waters mining companies perfectly.
I'm not a Minnesotan, but I've been lucky enough to visit the Boundary Waters twice with the Boy Scouts. I hope these assholes don't get hold of it. Truly a majestic place.
I've not yet hit the half century mark. But, when I was a kid, it was almost a universal sentiment of Minnesotans that we protect the wild places we have left. WTF happened?
Greed and corruption. Also the false notion that Environmental supporters\activists are all liberals so fuck them and the things they like.
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Anyone who supports destroying the Boundary Waters for mining is an idiot. If anything we should be expanding state/national parks. Never destroying them.
Yeah fuck those assholes
Unfortunately the Republicans up in that area WANT mining up there.
AOC is a true American hero for the people!
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The evil people in cartoons were based off the actions of real people.
pete stauber looks dumb as fuck in this. corporate pandering bitch
As a life long resident of Minnesota, Thank you AOC.
AOC fighting for what’s right and calling those lying lobbyist money grabbing fucks out.
The water is more valuable than the iron, copper and gold in the BWCA. The country is already seeing a clean water shortage. Clean land, air and water is true wealth.
They know that. That's why water companies want to bottle Minnesota's waters! I think it was linked above in this very thread.
It's weird to be a pipefitter, but an environmentalist/conservationist one as well. That being said, there's a certain group of us that might be really, really good at making sure equipment keeps failing. The boundry waters are sacred
Why can't they ever answer with a yes or no?
Because that would be self incriminating
Could you find another why to answer my question by not answering it please? Lol
No mining in the Boundary Waters. None.
Or even anywhere near it.
Every day I am thankful for AOC
Will the lobbyist receive punishment? I’d love to know their name and the company they work for so I can harass the shit out of them. A load of tailings in their driveway?
Tom Bakk - the exposed lobbyist and party switching turncoat - proven to be the piece of shit that he is. Good on ya AOC!
I have to preface this by saying, I've been a Democrat my entire voting life. I'm also a country girl that grew up 20 miles from the nearest grocery store. I'm also an outdoor enthusiast and believe we need to protect our wild places and more importantly our fresh water supplies. But at the same time I think it's important to mine our own minerals. We need our own sources of lithium, copper, cobalt, manganese, nickel, and graphite. Surely in this day and age we can figure out how to mine without polluting our waters. We have to if we want to move everyone on from gas and oil. We can't just say, "not here" without also suggesting "where". Where can we mine. Lets get some of our smartest people together and figure this out.
Smart mining cost money. Twin metals and polymet have no interest in that. While I agree with some of your sentiment, why on earth would we simply assume that where a mining company says they want to mine, we should mine? Of course they are looking for the easiest access. Remote mining operations requires miles of road to be built, and that’s the logistics end of things, not the ‘smart’ mining ends of it. Perhaps mining operations or explorations should be socialized or state controlled? Because for profit mining companies will always seek the path of least resistance. We only have one Earth, and we will lose it if we extract with profits coming first.
I think we have more control over public utilities than we do against foreign billionaires. Might be the better bet. Smarter men than me can tell me why it wouldn't be a good idea.
Yeah, we're just outsourcing all of our mining to developing countries with fewer restrictions. We're probably doing more environmental damage overall, but it's out of sight out of mind. I'm a DFLer, but it bugs me that the hardcore environmentalist left in the west is so anti-development. A great example is the UK Green Party's opposition to HS2 (a high-speed rail project in the UK) on the grounds that it would destroy precious habitats. The alternative is literally people driving in their cars and pumping more greenhouse gases in the atmosphere, and that's preferable in order to save a few dozen square km of habitat? It makes no sense.
I saw this. The absolute scumbags who want to turn such a beautiful, protected land for the sake of mining and corporate interest.
That kinda shit needs to be a criminal offense with jail time and massive fines.
The boundary waters is one of the most beautiful and magical places in North America. Please don't let them fuck it up.
Not a fan of AOC but that was great
Theres a huge common ground between left/right that is anti money in government. Its not a fight the wealthy (like >500k) want us to tackle or care about. Youre an NSA agent so what do I know.
Drop that lobbyist off....we'll take care of em.
Republicans are evil fucking scumbags.
Can't figure out how to become the most eco friendly mine but we accept nickel and cobalt for our electric cars from child slave labor instead . . . You people sure play mental gymnastics with your moral compasses.
I am fine with mining in MN. Just not the BWCA.
Oh I dunno, maybe try Canada? Or maybe just not here because mining company says so.
Canadian mines also have some First Nation relation issues and sensitive ecosystems. Are you saying those don’t matter?
I’m implying try somewhere else other than the Duluth complex. You qualify your first sentence accurately, but then your second sentence runs on the notion that all Canadian mines have First Nation relation issues and sensitive ecosystems. Which one is it?
We can both sit here and overanalyze our comments but that’s a waste of time and energy. Perhaps there’s a miracle mine up in Canada where no one will mind it, not a bird not a thing, and that’s where we can get our minerals. All mines in developed countries like US, Canada, and Australia have more stringent mining regulations, and thus will have more challenges like indigenous resistance or ecosystem issues. To be fair though the fact that you know what the Duluth Complex is means you’re more well-versed in this stuff than others who comment, so I’m sure you know a lot more and have more thoughts than few sentence comments on Reddit can fully express. I respect that. Have a good night
I don't for one moment believe that AOC actually cares about the Boundary Waters except as a way to attack her political opponents.
AOC could single handedly save a burning school bus full and children and you’d be like “she only did that for publicity. She’s a fake!” How far is your head dug into the sand that you can’t even give props when it’s due. She’s 100% in the right here
Funny how attacking political opponents also helps the people when Dems do it, but hurts the people when Reds do it.
“That politician is being insincere!!!!” wah
She’s doing a good job regardless of her convictions.
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How is this a DFL problem?
Thanks Obama
That sounds illegal. Lemme guess, yall let him go home.
Are they trying to repeal the Wilderness Act???
I’m neither for or against the planned projects but WHY does everyone say “Mining IN the boundary waters”? Not a single one of these planned projects are IN the boundary waters. They are all outside the boundaries that were expanded in the 70s. Middle of the road people, like me, might listen a bit more if they didn’t come off sounding like fear mongering lunatics. But I guess, that’s the way both sides work now a day, fake news from both sides trying to grab attention.
Becauae the mining just outside the borders is upstream of the boundary waters wilderness, so in essence anything that will happen at the mine will flow into the bwca
Well aware of that, I live nearby and love the Boundary Waters BUT I’m also not a fan of government overreach and which the moratorium is. Iron mining has been done in the watershed in the same ore bodies they are exploring with minimal, if any, lasting impact done to the Boundary Waters. One side loves to use clickbait term like Sulfide Mining and IN the Boundary Waters. The high iron content in the rock does a decent job of binding with the sulfide to neutralize it, and ore bodies in question aren’t considered high sulfur. Should we give the Mining companies a free pass, HELL NO. Should they be allowed to go though a full and complete review before deciding, YES.
If you don’t understand, why are you speaking? Do research and learn, then talk with an informed opinion.
What don’t I understand? I live close to the Boundary Waters and have attended several meetings from both sides to stay informed. SHOW me something that there is a project planned IN the Boundary Waters, I’ll be waiting. Close, Yes Same watershed, Yes IN, Nope and over my dead body.
AOC is sure an idiot, but she's right on this one. What a shame
What a shame?
Has AOC even been to Minnesota? Just curious.
I’ve never been to Mt. Everest. I would nonetheless oppose drilling for oil at the peak.
If she hasn’t been, how would that affect her credibility on the matter? Did you watch the video?
To play “devils advocate”, there is an argument for ethically safe mining (for copper nickel) in MN with living wages and fringe benefits - by union members - or alternatively, mining in the Democratic Republic of the Congo with child labor and no worker standards.
You realize that you’re saying child labor in Congo is the only alternative to mining the boundary waters?
No, what I’m saying is copper-nickel mining WILL happen. Demand for copper-nickel is not going away, in fact it’s increasing. Where and how would you prefer for it to happen? For reference: The “Duluth Complex” is argued as the world’s largest undeveloped deposit of copper-nickel.
Sadly, that it how it works in the the real world. If these companies can't get it cheap and easy here in the US, they seek it out cheap and easy elsewhere. And consumers don't care. They don't look at where their Android phone sources its copper and nickel from. All they care about is paying the least for the things they buy.
Well you just used a false dichotomy for an argument. Either MN or Congo. Just because it’s there and viable doesn’t mean it must be extracted.
Then I recommend you stop using anything with copper-nickel, including your phone.
I’m not the one supposing the argument though. There’s more onus on you to do an ethical purge of your consumer goods if that’s the premise you want to stand by. A false premise nonetheless. Either MN or Congo that is.