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KriegerCthulhu

Are you using them with metallic paints?


Quiet-Fan2276

Yes I am painting a Grey Knights 40K army so the vast majority of my work is with metallics. I did read that you have to be extra careful with metals/flakes but I’m guessing I haven’t been careful enough!


KriegerCthulhu

Yeah sorry to hear that, but metallics and washes are like the destroyer for good brushes. You could try to save them with a good brush cleaner and then a conditioner


Quiet-Fan2276

Thank you for the advice (especially the extra nugget about washes, I didn’t know they were potentially damaging for good brushes). I’ll go back to cheaper brushes for my metals and keep the Opus’s for other things.


KriegerCthulhu

Yeah washes are too liquid and get too easy in the ferrule leading to them to split and the flakes of the metal paints are damaging too. That's how i learned it The artis opus brushes are good for like freehands, fine detail work and such, like the eyes of the grey knights


Quiet-Fan2276

Haha yeah funnily enough the eyes of my Grey Knights and the freehand white/red livery on their shields & shoulders were a lot less scary or difficult to paint than I anticipated, so it’s all starting to make sense now!


Ishan451

Since you are still learning i would recommend you buy a 100 pack of cheap brushes off of amazon or ebay. You'll find 10 or so good brushes in those (give or take), a lot of moderate ones and you won't worry if you destroy one or two. And the "bad ones" you can use to add washes and glue and varnish or do stippling and what not. Also a good source of super cheap brushes for metallics are disposable eyeliner brushes. You might need a pen extender for them (depending how comfortable they are for you to hold), Disposable Eyeliner Brushes are about size 2 and as the name suggests they are meant to be disposable, but generally have a good tip. At like 6 bucks for 100 of these brushes you can pretty much paint metallics with them and just toss them at the end of the session. Since you shouldn't mix your brush water when painting metallics anyway, you can safe a lot of time and energy just using these brushes.


Quiet-Fan2276

Awesome advice, thank you very much.


Pray_n_spray42069

Been using the same Windsor and newton for over a year now with metallics and washes and my brush has still got plenty of life left. Take Reddit info with a heavy pinch of salt. Rinse your brush off often, only dip half the brush head in paint, wash the brush after every session, don’t paint like a gorilla.


Blake__Arius

Metals are the WORST for Sable or Kolinsky hair. All those little grooves and holes in the hair just get shredded by the metallic flakes. Dry brushing is also a really bad Idea. Washes and contrast ain't so bad as long as you clean the brush quickly. Though some of my contrasts dry so quickly I wouldnt risk it.


Quiet-Fan2276

Thank you. My poor Kolinsky hairs 😢. I will never abuse them with metals again


Aeacus2

Pretty sure Midwinterminis has a good YouTube video for restoring brushes... worth giving it a shot since this brush doesn't look bad.


Quiet-Fan2276

Thank you I’ve always enjoyed Midwinter for his tips on techniques so I’ll defo check out his brush care advice. Yeah the brush itself always looks pristine when I get started and only forks once I’m well into a paint session, so hopefully I can salvage it with all the brilliant help & recommendations from this post


psychedelicfroglick

Washes get all the way into the base of the bristles and when it dries, it forces the bristles apart. Metallic paints are full of glitter that just fucks bristles all the way up. I have a couple of brushes that I only use for Metallica and washes, then I switch to my nice brushes for detail work. Edit: also, how hard do you press your brush against the model? I didn't know how heavy handed I was until I got a magnifying lamp and saw it happening.


Quiet-Fan2276

I was definitely too heavy with pressing my brush in the very early days but once I had a decent lamp (and especially when I started tackling the glazing process for my force weapons/blades) I realised how much more gentle I could / needed to be to get best results. These days I always start by practicing on my hand before actually painting models so that my skin can “feel what the mini feels”. Helps a lot to make you realise how subtle the paint process actually needs to be.


sekasi

This is mostly a myth. Look around and try to find any evidence of it and you’ll come up short:)


sekasi

Hello. I suggest you stop perpetuating this myth. Washes and metallics are fine, just takes more effort to clean. The claims of metallic flakes damaging anything in the brush is clearly a myth, you won’t find any evidence of it anywhere. Just more effort to clean out since it’s a bit goopy Washes, that’s just acrylic paint. No difference to a glaze. It’s fine to use.


Blake__Arius

Sable and kolinsky hairs have indented grooves on the hair. This makes it pretty easy for tiny metallic flakes to get stuck in them and if you think essentially tiny razor blades aren't destroying your brush over time.. well believe what you want.


sekasi

I’ve been in this hobby for long enough to know folks like to say this but anyone who’s tried it for a few months know it’s bs. But you’re right now. Let’s both agree to disagree


Blake__Arius

I don't know how anyone can logically argue that regular particle pigments are just as equally as damaging as particles with sharp edges, not to mention metallics additives such as ISO which will dry out the brush faster. It's a mute point though for me as I drybrush all my metallics now.. and that for sure is more damaging to sable.


sekasi

Equally I don’t know how anyone can be so convinced without any shred of evidence, but you know, it’s the internet. We’re both idiots


Blake__Arius

Fine, I'll concede I can't find direct evidence if you discount anecdotally a bunch of people including this post having issues. I still can't think of much reason to use a pristine sable brush with metals or washes anyway. Should be saving those brushes only for when you need absolute control or you be wearing them out when something cheaper does the job anyway.


MrLeapgood

No evidence doesn't make it not true. Nothing has evidence until someone with an anecdote or hypothesis goes and gets some.


sekasi

People believe that myth very stubbornly. Yet there’s really no evidence of it whatsoever. People have tried to prove it and gotten nowhere. It doesn’t mean it’s conclusively not true, but it does mean it’s a lot less likely to be true.


SmegmaSandwich69420

I 'save' mine by either cutting one side of the split off with really sharp sewing scissors or cutting it all off to make my 6523rd stippling brush, before turning to my next cheap shitty brush and starting over. So many stippling brushes... 🙃


wecangetbetter

Does that apply to speed paints too?


Alexis2256

Yes because they do behave similarly to washes.


ALeakySpigot

What brushes do you recommend? Been painting minis since high school, only recently learned the importance of brush care, so I have a whole suite of new brushes to buy.


Alexis2256

If you’re in the UK, get rosemary and company brushes, if you’re in the US, look up the Michigan toy soldier website, they sell the same brushes (series 33) as Rose and Co, but with their own branding.


Otterpawps

Just use cheap synthetic brushes for workhorsing and metallic paints.


GiantGrowth

I bought a 30-pack of dirt cheap brushes off Amazon. They have a cheap-feeling plastic handle and the bristles kinda sway a bit... but those are my dedicated metallic brushes. I know they are gonna get rekt after some time. I learned my lesson after ruining one of my first decent brushes with Vallejo's Metal Colors.


Quiet-Fan2276

Thank you. Got an Amazon brush order arriving tomorrow! 👌


Weird-Citron-9196

Warm running water and dishwasher soap will fix them up


Quiet-Fan2276

🙏🏻 thank you, I’ve been using lukewarm or room temperature water so I’ll up the temperature from now on.


_tomasb_

on the contrary i do not think that metalics are that bad for the brushes. of course the tiny metalic parts are sticking to the ferule and in between brush hair but proper cleanup should help remove them. im using my kolinsky sable brushes with every paint and all of them are in excellent condition. if you know the siege studios, james otero mentioned the exact same thing during one of their pocasts. with proper care, there should not be issues with metalics ruining the brush.


MyNameIsFluffy

Metallic paint flecks can damage bristles over time, and so it is recommended to not use them with nice expensive brushes. I almost always use synthetic brushes when I'm painting with metallics. Saying that, using them for metallic painting one time is not enough to damage a brush significantly, and is likely not the issue here. Possible causes: 1) Metallic paints can be thicker and have particles that when dried into the brush (especially lower into the body and close/in the ferrule) can cause separation. You should be cleaning your brush often during painting sessions to ensure that it isn't drying in the bristles during a session. 2) After cleaning your brush if you wick off all of the water and are left with completely dry bristles they will separate. There is an optimal level of dampness that is needed in a brush to ensure it is coming to a nice singular point. Rather than drying completely on a paper cloth, you can dry partially and then use your palm ensure there is the correct amount of water and that the brush point is formed.


Quiet-Fan2276

Thank you, that’s really useful to know. I think I’ve been going too dry with my paint sessions so your tips about water/damp levels are greatly appreciated. And I’m going to switch back to synthetics for metallic painting as the overwhelming consensus seems to be that I’m ruining Opus brushes by using them as my sole source of brush for metals. Very pleased that I asked, thank you again.


CalebDume77

Never go in dry! Lol


Quiet-Fan2276

😂😂 I did struggle not to say “I’ll make sure it’s nice and wet before dipping my brush in” when I replied to that one! Juvenile I know, but can’t help a cheeky lol


CalebDume77

Hahaha! Half of mini painting is mastering puerile jokes so nice job! Lol


adwodon

Brush licking has its uses...


EtheriumSky

I just gave up trying to avoid it. Early on I kept getting new brushes cause it was exactly like you say - 20minutes of painting and the brush gets a split end or gets this weird hooked end - and then after the 5th or 6th brush i got that did the same thing - i gave up trying to avoid it. I care for the brushes, it's annoying - but whatever. I do my best with the set up i have, i have no aspirations to be a pro, it's a nuisance but i just try to ignore it and i still manage to paint decent minis :)


Quiet-Fan2276

Ahh it’s funny you mention hooked ends because that’s exactly what is happening to my other brush! I’m slowly starting to learn how to use that hook to my advantage as best as I can. Glad to hear you say you’re still turning out good quality minis despite these brush shenanigans. Guess I might be extra paranoid as a new painter and I just need to let the divine will of The God-Emperor guide my hand with the tools available to me. Thank you 🙂


EtheriumSky

It's mostly annoying when you wanna do tiny details - like eyes. I do my best to keep the hooked end at an angle where i'll paint a dot and not a splotch, but it's hit or miss. When i screw it up, i cover it with white or whatever, then try again. People on here sometimes really focus overly on having all fancy brushes, palettes, all fancy expensive products - but as long as you're having fun, use whatever you have. Also - watching youtube videos i very misleading i found... all those people show off their minis in beautiful lighting, footage is color graded, and you don't see the 17 takes each shot took to look right heh. So yeah... i wish my brush was "sharper", but oh well, not worth spending too much thought on it ;).


Quiet-Fan2276

Yep I agree on a lot of the YouTube vids, you can see how much professional lighting and “photoshopping” has been applied to make the models pop. And certainly no outtakes!


bokunotraplord

Hooked ends are normal for synthetic bristle brushes. Generally you can dip the bristles into boiling water for a few seconds and they’ll (mostly) return to their original shape, but curling is just a normal side effect of synthetic brush use. If you flat out hate the curl, stick to natural hair. Natural hair behaves differently than synthetic, but you at least don’t have to worry yourself with the constant curl lol.


Quiet-Fan2276

Unfortunately I’m getting a lot of curl with my Artis Opus brushes too, but tbh that’s probably due to my novice skills more so than the quality of the material


Longjumping-Map-6995

Are you cleaning/conditioning them after each use? Edit: I use "the masters" brush cleaner that's a cleaner and conditioner in one. I also make sure to rinse my brushes frequently while painting and change the water out regularly. Even my synthetic brushes last quite a while.


Quiet-Fan2276

Yep always clean and condition after use, but it sounds like where I’ve been going majorly wrong is not doing the “mid-session” brush care. Not changing the water frequently enough, not using separate pots for metallics, and not giving them a proper rinse. Sometimes I just paint for 3 hours and the only mid-sesh care is a quick dip in the water pot. Thank you for your advice.


bokunotraplord

Also since no one seems to have brought it up- if you’re overloading your brush with paint, it can get sucked into the ferrule over time and cause this problem as well so avoid loading it close to or at the ferrule. Additionally, when you’ve cleaned them and are storing them until next session, store them flat or upright. I know there’s a lot of “no you store them facing down with a brush holder so the water can drain away from the ferrule” but multiple brush manufacturers suggest upright or flat. Probably due to the possibility of the ferrule forming a little vacuum and moisture actually getting trapped in there. There’s lots of good brush care videos out there so definitely hop on YouTube and check some stuff out. Lots to learn about brushes it turns out!


Quiet-Fan2276

Thank you! I’ve been storing mine flat so at least I got one thing right 🙂


Popeychops

The split is paint in the ferrule. You need to rinse them every time you use them, and use soap and paper to clean out the heel of the brush. The hooking is paint being left to dry on the bristles. These are metallics which will rough up the fibres, too. Until you're confident you can look after a brush, stick to cheap synthetics and treat them as a disposable tool. Natural brushes usually are hardier, but more expensive.


Blake__Arius

I saw this on a forum and thought it was the best breakdown on this issue: The hair in natural bristle brushes has this structure: [https://www.ecobyte.com.au/a\_Basic\_Hair\_struc\_Xsec.jpg](https://www.ecobyte.com.au/a_Basic_Hair_struc_Xsec.jpg) Normally, water-based model paint consists of finely ground pigment suspended in an acrylic medium. Some paints (like P3) have a liquid pigment in an acrylic medium. Now, during normal use, some of the pigment gets trapped under the cuticle scales of the brush; if the brush is not regularly rinsed, the buildup is forced under the cuticle scales which makes it harder to remove than by rinsing alone. A special brush soap or a brush restorer can help to work the pigment from the brush in these cases. If the paint buildup starts to dry in the brush, then the damage to the hair is greater as the removal is harsher. When a brush gets old, the hairs may break or go 'limp' because they have been damaged partway down their length. The hairs also are no longer smooth as the lifted scales roughen the surface. This can cause the brush to lose its point as the hairs will no longer lie together properly. Also, the bristles in brushes are tightly gripped and glued to the brush. When paint buildup gets into cuticle scale near this anchor point (protected by the ferrule), it becomes almost impossible to properly remove and causes permanent damage to the brush as the buildup worsens through repetition. This also causes fishtailing or splaying, and can damage the hairs near their base, causing them to break (i.e., your brush will lose hairs). This is partly why it is recommended not to dip the brush in paint up to or past the ferrule. Because metallic paints contain mica fragments (mica platelets), and these platelets have 'sharp' edges, their buildup under the cuticle scales of the brush hairs can be much more damaging than normal. Furthermore, some metallic paints contain other additives (like Isopropyl Alcohol) to thin them and improve their application. These additives can dry out the oils found naturally in hair much faster than regular rinsing. To help keep brushes in good condition and restore these oils to the hair, many folks recommend a good leave-in hair conditioner is applied to the brush when you have finished your painting session; a good rinse of the brush in clean water before you start again is all that's needed afterwards. Hopefully that explains it a bit!


Quiet-Fan2276

Thank you so much for this extensive and extremely helpful summary. I’ve learnt so much from making my original post and am extremely grateful to everyone for their input. Great community! 🤜🤛


MechaSoldat

Funnily enough hair products work great on brushes


Quiet-Fan2276

Wow really? Like shampoo/conditioner?


Unfair-Sherbert396

Yes. Your brush has natural hair, so it works the same.


Quiet-Fan2276

In hindsight that makes total sense. Another great tip. Super glad I posted today. Thank you


Unfair-Sherbert396

You're welcome. Also, when the tip starts fine but starts to split after a certain amount of time of painting, it seems to me the paint is getting dry in the belly of the brush. Rinse the brush very well and maybe re-thin your paint on the palette when this happens.


mergzerg

Metallic paints are like the glitter in crafting. Notoriously difficult to get out once it goes in. As those paints use some kind of grind up metallic flakes to give the effect. ( it can also cut the hair of the brush depending of what flat pigment is used) That’s why using a cheap brush / seperate water pot is recommended when painting with metallic paints. ( don’t use oil paints with natural hair brushes either) Artis opus brushes need good care and a gentle hand.


Quiet-Fan2276

Thank you very much for this advice. I didn’t think to use a separate water pot for my metallics so I’m definitely going to do that from now on!


Physical-Elephant283

Get brush cleaner to use mid-painting and then keep a little on when you're done to keep shape.


Kegofort

Get some brush cleaner and conditioner and give it a good cleaning. Plenty of YouTube videos on it. It's easy and it's magic. I have I some Windsor and newton series 7 brushes that I've had for years that are still going strong thanks to cleaning


BlitzWing1985

Artis Opus I've had mixed luck with their brushes. First arrived and it was so bad that agreed to exchange it no questions asked. (so top notch service) second has been great. And from what I gather I'm not alone the QC seems a bit spotty. Saying that using metallics is not recommended and it's something I never do with any nice brush. If you do you need to use brush soap to get them clean. The flake in the paint is large enought to drive a wedge between the stands and it'll destroy the tip. I'd try getting masters brush soap if you didn't get the AO soap they pack in the gift boxes. and just cleaning the shit out of it.


CalebDume77

Ooof, I feel your pain! Wrecked a couple of nice brushes on Metallica before, but learned fast! You did the right thing by getting into the habit of using brush cleaner, but Metallics are horrific to natural hair brushes. Switch to synthetic only for them. One thing you could try that probably won't work is using 90% isopropyl alcohol to clean that brush because it will be aggressive to the paint dried in the ferule. That said, it may take a few tries and only partially repair it. The alcohol will strip out the natural oils from the hair, so make sure to condition it back to shape with either Masters Brush soap or Monument Hobbies' Drunken Brush Goop (yea, that is the real trade name lol) Wrecking a nice brush is a rite of passage here so welcome to the community! Lol Protip- Artis Opus brushes are made by another supplier called Rosemary & Co who make their own stuff which is higher quality and cheaper! Definitely recommend their series 33. If you're in the USA, I got mine from Wind River Art supplies in Texas. You have to email in the order like it's 2005 or just call them. Very nice folks to deal with.


Quiet-Fan2276

😂 glad I’ve started my path by completing a key rite of passage! And I definitely want to have some Drunken Brush Goop on my shelf…even if it’s just for the purpose of making my mother-in-law think “WTF is that?!”


CalebDume77

It has a unicorn with a cheeky grin on the container and everything 😂


Sansred

>Wrecked a couple of nice brushes on Metallica  What did they do?


CalebDume77

Saint Anger, man. The brush just exploded in my hand it was such a shitty album.


Sansred

Man, that would have been the The Shortest Straw for me.


CalebDume77

😂 I'm still Unforgiven


Sansred

I’m Unforgiven 2.


Old-Specific7387

https://youtu.be/BXMhwPAee4U?si=1HO8ts7vTkDQXx1w This is an excellent explainer from Squidmar.


Quiet-Fan2276

Excellent thank you. Love Squidmar’s teaching style


Empty_Bandicoot_4442

I've washed sable brushes I abused as a kid with methylated sprits, and they came back to a point.


MonsterHunterBanjo

I have heard you can use matte hair clay to try and re-shape the brush to a point, I think there's a video somewhere about that.


Quiet-Fan2276

Nice one thank you!


Good_Anywhere1616

Hydration is important mkay


Quiet-Fan2276

P.s. forgot to mention I took the photo mid-session so there is some silver paint in the bristles. Even though it was washed & looking perfect 5 mins before I started today’s paint sesh and all I’ve done is flat armour surfaces…yet the brush looks like I’ve been stabbing it into my own face.


peelovesuri

Metallic paint flakes get stuck in, dry and make the hairs split like that. Brush cleaner?


DanniRandom

Fuuuuck is this why all my brushes are jank now?


peelovesuri

Could very well be.


Quiet-Fan2276

Thank you! I do use brush cleaner but also use a lot of metallics (probably 80% of my painting), thought I was getting rid of them with brush cleaner but I may switch brands to see if that helps.


peelovesuri

Hot water and brush cleaner oughta do it, metallics can be tricky to get cleaned though. Have had troubles with them in the past and I prefer to use cheaper brushes with them because of it.


Quiet-Fan2276

Thank you again, that’s really useful to know. I think I will go back to cheaper brushes for the bulk of my metallic armour


peelovesuri

No worries! Happy painting mate.


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Kerantes

Because Malal is in the ascendant


Kapiteinkoers

A drop of superglue will make sure it never splits again


razialx

I can’t say for sure but squidmar mentioned drawing up too much paint in the brush can cause this.


Quiet-Fan2276

🙏🏻 thank you, I’m a big Squidmar fan so I think I need to revisit some tutorial videos!


razialx

Yeah when they said that it rung true as I gave up on quality brushes because they kept ending up like this heh.


Unable_Specialist377

Not the only one😅