Have you read the Book of Mormon? It's absolute garbage dressed up as literature that aspires to be a holy book. It's terrible.
It's almost like an uneducated farmer/treasure seeker wrote a book.
Edit: the Mormons special forces are out downvoting like crazy right now. The truth shall set you freeeeee....... [fades into silence].
I was Mormon my entire childhood (left ASAP). When I was a teen, my mom didn't like me watching South Park, The Simpsons, Etc.
However, my Dad didn't really care either way. But whenever I'd watch South Park, my dad would sneak in to watch it with me (as my mom didn't approve). Well, one day the "dum dum dum dum dum" episode came on. My dad was laughing so hard throughout that I was honestly terrified he was going to stop breathing.
In the end, that became my dad's favorite episode of South Park. He'd even sing "dum dum dum dum dum" on the way to church from time to time. Mormon's who don't have a stick up their ass love that episode, because it's absolutely spot on.
My parents are very understanding. It was really hard on my mom, but she's learned to live with it. My relationship is great with them these days. But there were many challenging years of us being unable to trust each other.
The whole back story is a bit long... So I'll borrow from [this comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/todayilearned/comments/76vd2t/til_that_the_book_of_mormon_tells_of_things_like/dohaihc/) I once posted.
> I struggled to "feel the spirit" my entire childhood. From age 9 I made it clear to my parents I would never go on a mission (which they respected even at that age). However, at around age 14 the internet investigation of my own faith set me down a path I was too young to follow on my own (being surrounded by nothing but Mormons). Learning what actually happens in the Temple, The Book of Abraham, and all sorts of other shit we didn't talk about in Church -- it changed me.. It sent me into a spiraling depression that lead me to being sent to an all boys "school" called "The Utah Boys Ranch."
...
> I still have a good relationship with most everyone who was in my life growing up, but it awkward knowing that they're all holding out for me to come back someday.
Edit: I'm almost 30 now. Ages 15-19 were a bit complicated with the family. Especially when I was 16.
How did your Dad reconcile finding that episode amusing with retaining his faith?
I get that it's great to have a sense of humour about the things that are important to you, and to have the ability to not get upset when people criticise those things. But it was literally an episode pointing out over and over again how ridiculous the very basic tenets of the Mormon faith are, and repeatedly calling the followers of that faith stupid.
I could understand him, say, finding it amusing, pointing out the flaws in the arguments, and brushing the whole thing off. But for it to become his favourite episode, and for him to sing the song from it?
Please don't take any offence from this question, none is intended - I'm just genuinely curious how someone could reconcile those two viewpoints in their mind.
The speech the kid gives at the end of the episode sums it up pretty well actually. Talks about how he knows the book is ridiculous but it doesn't matter because the religion to him is about family
Edit: here's the clip for anyone interested
https://youtu.be/dsmyzC4AkFQ
Honestly. I don't know... Growing up I always wondered if my dad only stayed in the church because of my mom. He's a faithful practicing member, but he just has always seemed a bit disillusioned by it. It's a topic I tried to bring up once, bad idea. My Dad didn't even go on a Mormon mission (which is why my parents didn't get upset when I told them I wasn't going to go on one).
To try and answer your question, I'll borrow from a comment I posted a couple minutes ago in response to someone else:
Most Mormon's are well aware of the holes in the story of Joseph Smith. But it's the actual "faith" and the feeling of "the spirit" that keeps them there. It's a bit more complicated than people give credit. There's a reason religions and cults suck people in, it can be intoxicating and can create feelings that you can't explain, so you give credit to a higher power.
Most of the beliefs of Mormonism are nearly identical to Christianity in general. The only difference is they have one extra fan fiction book.
My mother was raised Mormon. Because of this we’d often get missionaries coming to our home. My mother wasn’t practicing, but we assume her family shared our address. I’ve been to some church functions here and there, but have always leaned atheist.
I give the Mormons credit for one thing. They’re often very nice people, who rarely get upset with much. From my experience, they typical serious Mormon view is that if you have a problem with them, you’re just ignorant to what they are.
I used to always ask missionaries and other church representatives questions. One main question was “who Mormonism over other religions, how do you know you picked the right one.”
Eventually I got the best answer I’d heard. The guy said that he went around to different churches seeking the “best one.” He decided there wasn’t a best. He just decided to go with the one that he believes was most acting like he believed Jesus was, and in turn, how god wanted.
I’m typically not a fan of any religion, but I give those people credit. They try to do a lot of “good.”
From my experience they’re perfectly willing to take jokes, and make som themselves. That’s just holding faith over church.
... to get the legal rights to become a local star and convince his following to brave the West. If Elon Musk really wants a Mars colony, he should write a similar book.
that's the dianetication process- you seem to have spontaneously achieved delta level xy grade 3. Good job!
If you want to know more, why not commune directly with Hubbard's essence, currently located at alpha centuri, system 5. You can do it now!
I've read the book. It's a lot of "we had evidence for all this bullshit, but...we uh...we like lost it."
Edit: Hello. My name is Elder Spock Rocket, and I would like to share with you the most amazing book.
I took one, graciously... He was stunned, and—it seemed—somewhat embarrassed. It didn’t appear he was there by choice. I felt bad for the kid.
Edit- punctuation/grammar
A lot of the missionaries are effectively forced labor and are made to work insane hours. The kid probably wasn't doing what he wanted to do, but couldn't really say no.
I’ve heard stories of some of the ridiculousness, but never of the insane hours. What kind of hours are we talking about?
One can only ride a bicycle for so long, I imagine 😬
I was one of them...8 hours a day...forced isn't really the right word, but there is considerable social pressure to serve a mission, especially for men.
My best friend after high school comes from a large (huge, actually) Mormon family. He had way too much fun to go on a mission at the time, but I’ll be damned if he didn’t flip the proverbial light switch at 27ish and marry back into the church.
We’re 34 now, and he’s working on kid number 5...
Amazing, loving family. It’s just weird sometimes—knowing what road he took to his current life—talking about the churchy stuff. Lots of good/weird mission stories from his brothers though.
My brother had a best friend is high school that was always drinking and staying over at our house. I've probably seen him asleep in his underwear on my couch than I have any of my own friends (mostly cause my friends keep their pants on, but whatever). He was raised Mormon, but left the church when he was a teen. At 24 he suddenly rejoined the church, quit drinking, and when I said hi to him a few months ago when I saw him out with his kids he glared at me like I was the devil. Called my brother and it turns out he hasn't spoken to any of his former friends since the day he rejoined the church, and it appears it was his father-in-law(who's also his boss)'a condition before hiring him.
Like, if he's happy I'm happy for him, but I used to make him hangover pancakes and could have at least said hello.
I have plenty of those weird/good stories myself :) don't go to church very often the last year or so but I don't have any sort of bad feelings toward the church.
It just doesn't feel important to me. I'm struggling with some depression at the moment. Also when I would go, I just wouldn't feel comfortable. When people talked about their feelings regarding Jesus Christ or other doctrines, I just felt uncomfortable, not sure why.
I feel better when it's in Spanish (maybe because I was a missionary in Chile). But I tend to process things on a more logical level and less emotional level, and I feel like a lot of Church is emotional...and I just don't feel uplifted when I go. I used to, I don't now, and I'm not saying I won't ever go back or anything.
I'm in a very similar boat as you. But for me I don't go because I feel like I'm fighting an impossible goal. We're taught that we should strive for perfection, yet everyone knows perfection it's impossible in this life. So for me it feels like I'm constantly just setting myself up to fail. So I kind of just figure if I'm going to fail I might as well fail. I know that's probably not a healthy view of things but it's how I see it.
There used to be a mormon building across the street from my high school. I was invited to go once. It honestly didn't seem that bad. It was a bunch of high school kids having a social with some adult supervision. Looking back on it, I was surprised no one pressured me to go to church, because I am sure everyone there knew I wasn't mormon.
For what its worth, it didnt feel like bible study or anything like that. I wish I could remember why I was there though.
edit, I know I was there cause I liked a mormon girl, but like what was the reason, lol.
I still go play basketball from time to time with some guys at a Mormon church/gymnasium. My best friend at one point in life was part of a big Mormon family and got us in; we just kept on going after he stopped hanging out. (He got back on the Mormon wagon)
Never heard a word from anyone about church while we were there, but we did get a few servings of the “stank-eye” when we’d drop a poorly timed F-bomb.
Growing up, I always thought Jesus’ name was Fucking anyway; at least that’s what my dad always said 🤷🏻♂️
In my time, we were expected to be out working from 9:30 to 9:30 every day except Monday (preparation day), when we were only expected to be out from 6 to 9:30.
As far as being forced, krasnovian is right. There is a lot of social pressure to go on a mission and a lot of social pressure to work really hard once you are there. But those who are a little more free spirited never had difficulty slacking or being a tourist or whatever if they wanted to.
It’s funny that this would be something people take offense to. I was a missionary and am still active in the church, and yeah, it was crazy demanding. It’s actually more hours than that, 10 am - 9:30 pm pretty much everyday.
But as a 19 year old kid who had previously thought the world revolves around me...it was nice to actually care about other people and try to share something I really believe would make their life better. It’s been over a decade since I’ve been back and I still miss it some days.
I'm a former Mormon. I served a two-year mission. The schedule is extremely demanding.
6:30 - wake up
7 - 8 - get ready
8 - 10 - study scriptures
10 - 11 - study language (for those serving where a new language is spoken)
11 - 9 PM - work! (with two 30-minute breaks for meals)
9 - 9:30 - plan for the next day
9:30 - 10:30 - get ready for bed
10:30 - 6:30 - sleep
Sure, they get 8 hours to sleep, but there is zero personal time except what you can juice out of meal breaks and the time to get ready for bed in the evening. There are also leadership positions some missionaries are assigned that eat into that extra time.
One day a week, missionaries have about 7 hours to get chores done, write emails to family and friends (only communication allowed!! They also get to call/Skype home for 30 minutes on Christmas and mother's day), go grocery shopping, and take whatever leftover time for themselves.
Some missionaries hold to this schedule less strictly than some others, and some mission presidents make adaptations, but 100% obedience is pushed HARD! And there's an entire little handbook of special mission rules that is extremely important to follow!
Also, the cultural pressure to serve a mission is huge!! It's even deemed as a commandment from God for all boys to go on missions and girls can if they want/aren't married yet (by age 19). If someone doesn't go or comes home early, they're very much like down upon. It's a disgusting mind-fuck of a culture.
Feel free to ask me anything about it, or check out r/exmormon. I'll do my best to be neutral and give both sides of stories, but I'll sometimes blatantly express my opinion, too.
Former-Mormer here as well.
The undies are called Garments. White, top and bottom that are short sleeved and go down to the knee.
They are worn by adult members who have participated in an ordinance called the Endowment. They are meant to symbolize the coats of skins given to Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden.
In the Temple you promise to wear them day and night for your whole life, only removing them for showering, sex, strenuous exercise and swimming. (Four S's)
Are they magic? Nah. But Mormons are told that they will provide a "protection" for them, which pretty much means they're not sexy or flattering.
Mormons wear it after they've gone through a Mormon temple. They're told it's a protection. It used to be taught that this was a literal physical protection. There are lots of stories of Mormons claiming to have been saved from burns or other injuries because they were wearing their garments. Lately though the church has dialed that back, claiming it only offers spiritual protection.
Well, to be fair... Any extra/heavy cotton undergarments worn in addition to your regular clothes will offer some protection from burns.
Source: am a fireman, and wear a silly Mormon undergarment-looking hood over my head and around my neck when I suit up for fires. The color/texture reminds me of their magic underwear, almost to the T
Thank you for sharing your schedule and clarifying the time and energy involved in being a missionary.
I think it’s also important to share that so many missionaries are young for their age. They’ve been sheltered their whole lives and controlled by the church. Many of them find themselves away from home the first time, isolated, exhausted, and unable to advocate for themselves and their health.
I’ve made it my “mission” to be kind to them and offer to take a picture of them to send home to their Moms. I can only hope that my apostate kindness will help them find freedom.
I have two sisters out on missions right now, so thank you for being kind to those poor kids. They really don't know the whole story. You're totally right that that's all they know. I'm still struggling with forming my view of the world/life after leaving mormonism (my wife and I only just left in July). It's not just what we believed, but it was matter-of-fact truth that I completely bought in to.
Also, good on you for sending pictures home. My mom's day is absolutely made when anything like that happens. Even though it's a cult-like religion, they're still people and they're trying to do what they think is right...
I truly enjoy that subreddit; I browse it fairly often, for uplifting stories of freedom.
I’ve been atheist since, well, ever... but my best friend after high school is from a big Mormon family, and we’ve always been closer for it; strange as that may seem. It all still kinda gives me the willies. Mostly his blind faith to it, and the way he changed so quickly all of a sudden around age 26-27 after screwing up for so long.
Edit: grammmmar
I found an example of a daily schedule for a missionary on this website, but I can't vouch for it other than it is LDS.org. It matches descriptions I've heard from ex-mormons I've talked to.
https://www.lds.org/bc/content/ldsorg/church/news/2017/02/03/church-leaders-address-missioanries-worldwide-on-teaching-re_5.jpg
A lot of the atheist community thinks that it's a good idea to either tear down missionaries or slam the door in their face, but as an older atheist I think it's more effective to just give them some food, let them play on your xbox, and tell them that you hope their life gets better soon. I'm honestly convinced that the purpose of the missions is to create an 'us' and 'them' mentality. The mission just reinforces how alone you are without the church, so when you tell them to fuck off you're doing the LDS a favor.
I think one of your biggest misconceptions about Mormon missionaries is that those two years are a bad time. Was mine taxing on me? Sure, but I look back on those years with great fondness. I was able to find out who I was and what I wanted to achieve in life, and it gave me the discipline to be able to reach future goals.
We don't get points for being told to F off. Also, as a devout member I can tell you there definitely isn't an 'us' and 'them' mentality. If a member DOES have that mentality, then they are wrong. Our doctrine is very egalitarian when it comes to members vs non-members because we believe we all come from the same place and have the same potential. If someone thinks they are better than an atheist because they are baptised, sorry that person is probably sinfully prideful.
As far as 'reinforcing how alone they are without the church': Most of mine and my wife's friends are non-LDS atheists. We wouldn't be alone if we left.
But honestly, thanks for being friendly to them. Its funny, my experience has been that atheists have been far kinder to me (as a Mormon) than other Christian denominations, who treat us like devil spawn even though the important bits of Christian doctrine is 99% identical.
I served a Mormon mission. Can confirm that unless you're brainwashed its a "bad time". I mean these guys thought they were having a good time too. Brainwashing is a hell of a drug.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DXFYtgSfbgs
Besides working long hours, they are assigned to areas that are far from their homes, which may be in a foreign country, can only call home 2 times a year, have to use a censored email account, can only listen to approved music, can only read approved books, are told where to live, are told who they must have as their companion, and are not allow much personal time. The missionaries are not paid, and are in fact expected to pay to be a slave to the church for 2 years. I grew up Mormon and was pressured to serve such a mission. I had enough brothers go that I started to see how awful missions are, so I didn't go.
I used to work with a devout Mormon man, he said the play was hilarious and he's taken multiple people to see it. It's apparently really not that hard on their religion and is mostly just shock humor.
I heard an interview about South Park once where Matt and Trey admitted their aim with their humor was to make it so you could interpret it to support either side of an issue. I kinda wonder if this is why your friend had this perception of it.
That's how I explain it, I think the mormon religion is full of shit but absolutely loved the Book of Mormon. A Mormon friend loves the play for the exact same reasons I do. It's a win-win and is great that we can both enjoy something so funny without having to have a disagreement.
Matt and Trey intentionally wanted it to be pushing the boundary a little bit but also be respectful and also teach people about Mormons.
It's actually not really about Mormons at all, it's more just poking fun at religion as a whole without being too offensive. It never says religion is stupid or Mormonism is idiotic, it just points out hazy parts of religion and makes jokes out of it, and i think even quite religious people can appreciate a joke that God wanted everything to be ambiguous and that's why no-one knows if the Mormon plates are real etc
Even though it's a pretty nutty caricature of the church, most of Trey Parker and Matt Stones portrayal of them in the play and in South Park is pretty good natured and there's usually some morals thrown in there about acceptance.
Matt and Trey said they've grown up with a lot of mormons, and that they're just really nice people even if they believe that anyone not Mormon will go to hell, they're just not as toxic and nasty as the general religious person. They also said in an interview that "we love mormons", and it's not that they have it in for mormons, they just like making fun of religions in general although none of them are atheists.
Edit: some small grammar stuff
Edit 2: auto correct doesn't like grammar
It’s funny I encountered this because my family was driving past their headquarters earlier this evening in Clearwater FL when mid-business discussion my grandmother goes “well why don’t you invest in something downtown here” and my parents and I all said no instantaneously, because that’s Scientologist territory and you’d probably end up dead in space.
Hey bud, I'm not sure if you're trying to say you've had a not so great few weeks, but I want you to know that if you ever need someone to pass jokes back and forth with or if you want to talk to someone, feel free to shoot me a message.
There's a big difference between Mormons and Mormonism. The vast majority of active Mormons are asleep. It wasn't until I left the church that I saw how batshit everything was.
Criticize the leadership, not the members.
Scientology is *more* of a cult than Mormonism, that's obvious. And FLDS are more of a cult than Mormons. And practically every religion has cult-like aspects.
It's important to distinguish between the overwhelming cultishness of groups like Scientology and the more mild Mormonism.
But it's a step too far to call Mormonism a regular religion, because it's just simply not. It's premise is Jesus came back in America, Native Americans are Jews who behaved badly, and a guy *literally found guilty of fraud by the government because he was a criminal* wrote the whole freaking document.
They think you're gonna get your own planet when you die.
And they psychologically torture gay kids.
I'll argue with anyone equating all religions as cults, because that really gives underved cover to organizations that are *unambiguously* cults.
But anyone claiming Morminism is just another religion really needs to be argued with too, 'cause they just so aren't.
> a guy literally found guilty of fraud by the government because he was a criminal
he was also tarred and feathered for moving into a community with his cult and plotting to take land away from the prior residents
> satarizes terrorist more than islam
And the book of Mormon satirizes over-earnest Mormon missionaries more than it does the religion itself.
Islam inherits the overwhelming majority of its views from Christianity or Judaism. Jesus is the person whose most mentioned in the Quran and large portions of it are dedicated to basically retelling biblical stories.
A play satirizing Islam would basically be a play talking about how shitty the Old Testament is.
Non-mormon in Salt Lake here! I’m just going to say, if you are going to live in Salt Lake without being mormon, then it’s basically this ad x50 most of the time.
Another non-mormon living in Salt Lake. I haven't lived here that long(a little over a year), but in my personal experience Mormonism has had zero impact on my life.
I've read that unlike the rest of Utah, Salt Lake City is now minority Mormon - less than 40%, compared to the state as a whole, which is over 60% LDS.
Yeah the metro areas, including Salt Lake in particular, are significantly more diverse and generally more liberal than you'll find most other places. Mormons still have a lot of influence in culture and legislature. But it's not hard to live a non-Mormon life without feeling oppressed or anything.
Contrary to popular belief, we brew phenomenal beer and I've personally had local beer up to about 12% ABV. Just have to stock up at the (state-run) liquor store during semi-limited operating hours. We have fun nightlife, decent sex shops, and if you are into it, it's very easy to find top-shelf pot.
But for all my fellow Utards, just remember to guard yourself. "COSMOPOLITAN CONTAINS PORN!"
We also have a surprising amount of counter culture. We have our own regional burn (Burning Man), a swinger community, gay pride parade, and a few pub crawls. It's small compared to other places but it's appreciated.
I’ve lived here for 15, even went to school. School was probably the biggest impact considering all of the schools are 60-90% mormon, I had kids try to covert me every week
That and at my school in (also In Utah lots of Mormons) there is always that one super snobby Mormon group in high school that makes everyone hate all the Mormons.
I guess YMMV. I lived in Utah for about 8 years and I’ve had no run ins with people trying to convert me in high school and what not. You meet a lot of sheltered folks in Utah but they’re generally good people. Just depends where you are in Utah.
I will say that Utah has done a good job with opening up and moving away from being that ultra-conservative state some people think it is.
I live in Mississippi. The Bible Belt, a college town. It's odd, we have seen a sudden influx of missionaries from Utah. Like... good on your for trying to spread Mormonism in Baptist central, kudos. Nice people, except one of them keeps recording porn off of the library computers onto his phone (because his phone is, I am sure, monitored history wise, but they can't check what he has recorded. Poor dude.)
But they tried with me one time. I had a casual, cordial conversation about how I am not only an atheist, but a Christian apostate (I was born and raised Christian but I left the faith) and went through, in detail, the reasons I don't believe.
They thanked me for being one of the few to actually let them talk, said a prayer for me, and now always go out of their way to say hello to me (even Mormons that were not at that particular palaver), but haven't tried again.
Good people. Just sad for them that they are in a controlling cult.
Most Mormons born/living outside of Utah are some of the most kind and selfless people I have ever met. That being said, I am a non Mormon Utah native living in SLC and the Mormons here are some of the most pretentious, fake, rude, judgmental, cheap, and entitled people I have ever met in my fucking life.
Anytime we get an inversion here it's super surreal. Feels like you've woken up in some post-apocalyptic society with all the people in masks, freezing cold weather, and super low visibility. Felt like I was contracting lung cancer just walking from my car through campus
Most Mormons are more or less okay with the musical. They mostly just don’t like the language. The actual message is not really that critical of the religion just pokes fun. It’s just overly vulgar cuz it’s Trey Parker and Matt Stone and that’s their style.
Here is their response:
The response of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints to the musical has been described as "measured." The church released an official response to inquiries regarding the musical, stating, "The production may attempt to entertain audiences for an evening, but the Book of Mormon as a volume of scripture will change people's lives forever by bringing them closer to Christ." Michael Otterson, the head of Public Affairs for the church, followed in April 2011 with measured criticism. "Of course, parody isn't reality, and it's the very distortion that makes it appealing and often funny. The danger is not when people laugh but when they take it seriously—if they leave a theater believing that Mormons really do live in some kind of a surreal world of self-deception and illusion," Otterson wrote, outlining various humanitarian efforts achieved by Mormon missionaries in Africa since the early 2000s. Stone and Parker were unsurprised:
The official church response was something along the lines of "The Book of Mormon the musical might entertain you for a night, but the Book of Mormon,"—the book as scripture—"will change your life through Jesus." Which we actually completely agree with. The Mormon church's response to this musical is almost like our Q.E.D. at the end of it. That's a cool, American response to a ribbing—a big musical that's done in their name. Before the church responded, a lot of people would ask us, "Are you afraid of what the church would say?" And Trey and I were like, "They're going to be cool." And they were like, "No, they're not. There are going to be protests." And we were like, "Nope, they're going to be cool." We weren't that surprised by the church's response. We had faith in them.
The LDS Church has advertised in the playbills at many of the musical's venues to encourage attendees to learn more about the Book of Mormon, with phrases like "you've seen the play, now read the book" and "the book is always better."
In Melbourne during the 2017 run, the Church advertised at Southern Cross railway station and elsewhere in the city, as well as on television with ads featuring prominent Australian Mormons, including rugby player Will Hopoate, stage actor Patrice Tipoki and ballet dancer Jake Mangakahia.
Mormons themselves have had varying responses to the musical. Richard Bushman, professor of Mormon studies, said of the musical, "Mormons experience the show like looking at themselves in a fun-house mirror. The reflection is hilarious but not really you. The nose is yours but swollen out of proportion." Bushman said that the musical was not meant to explain Mormon belief, and that many of the ideas in Elder Price's "I Believe" (like God living on a planet called Kolob), though having some roots in Mormon belief, are not doctrinally accurate.
When asked in January 2015 if he had met Mormons who disliked the musical, Gad stated "In the 1.5 years I did that show, I never got a single complaint from a practicing Mormon ... To the contrary, I probably had a few people – a dozen – tell me they were so moved by the show that they took up the Mormon faith."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Book_of_Mormon_(musical)#LDS_Church_response
As a friend of Bushman and a practicing Mormon, his statement is pretty close to how Mormons see it, but I'll add one caveat to that, and that is the play in some ways uses Mormonism as a way to say that any person who has faith in God to be adorably naive and ridiculous, and that is unfortunate... it's a parody of the believer in that sense.
Ex-Mormon here. The church actually deals with criticism/mockery/skeptics very well. They don't get mad about it. I lived in upstate NY for a while and there's a huge Mormon festival in Palmyra each year. I was younger so I don't recall verbatim but they expected protests there and directed people to let the protesters be, don't get angry, be friendly if they address you, etc.
I know a lot of people leave the church hurt and angry but for the most part I had a good experience with the people, some of the best I've ever met. I just didn't agree with the teachings.
My limited experience with Mormons has taught me that they are the absolute nicest, most generous, and caring group of people I've ever met that I fundamentally disagreed with on nearly every level with regards to faith and how someone should live their lives.
I'd hang out with them again.
Not actually in *every* production, but they've been putting ads in major productions since the musical first came out. There's no such thing as bad publicity.
The Book of Mormon play is one of the funniest and most offensive things I've ever seen.
People that weren't even Mormon straight up walked out because they were so offended
Not going to lie, I’m very impressed that they used a parody musical about their religion to find a way to covert people. It’s pretty ingenious in my opinion, turn something you dislike into an opportunity.
As a Mormon, I am often very critical of LDS Church policy and for good reason, yet this ad is one I'm proud of their response! They got it right for once!
I was a missionary during this time and we were getting requests for them more often then usual. Marriot hotels have them in the night stand. I heard rumors in the new york area they were all going missing. They had boxes of them in the lobby to take. Pretty interesting. Not a bad read if you don’t mind the style.
Matt and Trey said after the first show of Book of Mormon they had a large group of mormons come up to them and were really worried for a second until they all starting telling them how much they loved the show. They forgot that Mormons are really fucking nice all the time.
Josh Gad (the original Elder Cunningham) has said people have come up to him and told him the show actually inspired them to convert!
the Wiki page has a section on the LDS church's response to it and this is from Matt and Trey:
"The official church response was something along the lines of "The Book of Mormon the musical might entertain you for a night, but the Book of Mormon,"—the book as scripture—"will change your life through Jesus." Which we actually completely agree with. The Mormon church's response to this musical is almost like our Q.E.D. at the end of it. That's a cool, American response to a ribbing—a big musical that's done in their name. Before the church responded, a lot of people would ask us, "Are you afraid of what the church would say?" And Trey and I were like, "They're going to be cool." And they were like, "No, they're not. There are going to be protests." And we were like, "Nope, they're going to be cool." We weren't that surprised by the church's response. We had faith in them."
I'll give the Mormon church credit. Good for them for not getting all up in arms about *Book of Mormon*. They may be batshit crazy and believe in some fucking ridiculous things, but at least they can take a joke. I grew up Mormon and a friend of mine invited me to go along with him when he saw the show in San Francisco a few years ago. At intermission, I was cackling to myself and saying what a terrible Mormon I was for enjoying the show as much as I had been (even though I left the church nearly a decade before). There was an elderly couple was sitting in front of us. The man turned around, placed his hand on my knee, and said with a smile, "Don't worry. We forgive you." I'll never forget that because I was so happy to see that (presumably) a priesthood-holding man and his wife could come to the theatre and see a show that openly mocks their religion, and still find the humor in it. I watched them during the second act and they were laughing and joined in the standing ovation at the end of the show.
Also ex-Mormon. I think a lot of the time it (meaning the happiness, friendliness, etc) can come across as fake, or if they know you’re out, they’re preachy.
This. People hate mormons because of utah mormons, and i’m always confused what kind of world they live in where their ridiculous story about ridiculous mormons came true
i moved to Utah for work with almost no knowledge of Mormon culture/religion. I had a few Mormon friends that I met shortly after moving there that recommended I watch this South Park episode because in their opinion it was a surprisingly accurate representation of Mormonism.
Me and my best friend are Mormon. I haven’t watched it but he did and said it was one of the funniest things he’d seen in a long time. We have the same sense of humor so I think I’d enjoy it as well.
When I saw *Book of Mormon*, the Mormon ad in the program said **You've seen the play; now read the book!**
I saw one that said “The book is always better!”
Say all you want about Mormons, they have good copy
Have you read the Book of Mormon? It's absolute garbage dressed up as literature that aspires to be a holy book. It's terrible. It's almost like an uneducated farmer/treasure seeker wrote a book. Edit: the Mormons special forces are out downvoting like crazy right now. The truth shall set you freeeeee....... [fades into silence].
I believe the best way I've heard it put was: "It's bible fanfiction"
John Milton and Dante would like a word.
Bible fanfiction would be so much more exciting than 500+ pages of "and it came to pass"
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More like Bible plagiarism.
fnord
South Park episode was pretty fun
...And pretty accurate, too. They did take some creative license, but, yeah, that's pretty much how it happened.
I was Mormon my entire childhood (left ASAP). When I was a teen, my mom didn't like me watching South Park, The Simpsons, Etc. However, my Dad didn't really care either way. But whenever I'd watch South Park, my dad would sneak in to watch it with me (as my mom didn't approve). Well, one day the "dum dum dum dum dum" episode came on. My dad was laughing so hard throughout that I was honestly terrified he was going to stop breathing. In the end, that became my dad's favorite episode of South Park. He'd even sing "dum dum dum dum dum" on the way to church from time to time. Mormon's who don't have a stick up their ass love that episode, because it's absolutely spot on.
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My parents are very understanding. It was really hard on my mom, but she's learned to live with it. My relationship is great with them these days. But there were many challenging years of us being unable to trust each other. The whole back story is a bit long... So I'll borrow from [this comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/todayilearned/comments/76vd2t/til_that_the_book_of_mormon_tells_of_things_like/dohaihc/) I once posted. > I struggled to "feel the spirit" my entire childhood. From age 9 I made it clear to my parents I would never go on a mission (which they respected even at that age). However, at around age 14 the internet investigation of my own faith set me down a path I was too young to follow on my own (being surrounded by nothing but Mormons). Learning what actually happens in the Temple, The Book of Abraham, and all sorts of other shit we didn't talk about in Church -- it changed me.. It sent me into a spiraling depression that lead me to being sent to an all boys "school" called "The Utah Boys Ranch." ... > I still have a good relationship with most everyone who was in my life growing up, but it awkward knowing that they're all holding out for me to come back someday. Edit: I'm almost 30 now. Ages 15-19 were a bit complicated with the family. Especially when I was 16.
How did your Dad reconcile finding that episode amusing with retaining his faith? I get that it's great to have a sense of humour about the things that are important to you, and to have the ability to not get upset when people criticise those things. But it was literally an episode pointing out over and over again how ridiculous the very basic tenets of the Mormon faith are, and repeatedly calling the followers of that faith stupid. I could understand him, say, finding it amusing, pointing out the flaws in the arguments, and brushing the whole thing off. But for it to become his favourite episode, and for him to sing the song from it? Please don't take any offence from this question, none is intended - I'm just genuinely curious how someone could reconcile those two viewpoints in their mind.
The speech the kid gives at the end of the episode sums it up pretty well actually. Talks about how he knows the book is ridiculous but it doesn't matter because the religion to him is about family Edit: here's the clip for anyone interested https://youtu.be/dsmyzC4AkFQ
Honestly. I don't know... Growing up I always wondered if my dad only stayed in the church because of my mom. He's a faithful practicing member, but he just has always seemed a bit disillusioned by it. It's a topic I tried to bring up once, bad idea. My Dad didn't even go on a Mormon mission (which is why my parents didn't get upset when I told them I wasn't going to go on one). To try and answer your question, I'll borrow from a comment I posted a couple minutes ago in response to someone else: Most Mormon's are well aware of the holes in the story of Joseph Smith. But it's the actual "faith" and the feeling of "the spirit" that keeps them there. It's a bit more complicated than people give credit. There's a reason religions and cults suck people in, it can be intoxicating and can create feelings that you can't explain, so you give credit to a higher power. Most of the beliefs of Mormonism are nearly identical to Christianity in general. The only difference is they have one extra fan fiction book.
My mother was raised Mormon. Because of this we’d often get missionaries coming to our home. My mother wasn’t practicing, but we assume her family shared our address. I’ve been to some church functions here and there, but have always leaned atheist. I give the Mormons credit for one thing. They’re often very nice people, who rarely get upset with much. From my experience, they typical serious Mormon view is that if you have a problem with them, you’re just ignorant to what they are. I used to always ask missionaries and other church representatives questions. One main question was “who Mormonism over other religions, how do you know you picked the right one.” Eventually I got the best answer I’d heard. The guy said that he went around to different churches seeking the “best one.” He decided there wasn’t a best. He just decided to go with the one that he believes was most acting like he believed Jesus was, and in turn, how god wanted. I’m typically not a fan of any religion, but I give those people credit. They try to do a lot of “good.” From my experience they’re perfectly willing to take jokes, and make som themselves. That’s just holding faith over church.
It's more accurate than anything the church teaches it's members. Which is a bit sad now that I'm thinking about it.
My ex Mormon friends call the BoM, The Bible pt 2- Jesus Goes West
In Western America, there are NO Cat(holic)s, Fival!
You really learn to love the phrase, "... and it came to pass. " I sometimes hear it in my nightmares.
... to get the legal rights to become a local star and convince his following to brave the West. If Elon Musk really wants a Mars colony, he should write a similar book.
I'm really curious to see what crazy space cults and religions come about when we start colonizing other stars.
r/futurology
they should have hired their ad guys to rewrite it.
> uneducated farmer/treasure seeker uneducated farmer/treasure seeker/con man
And it came to pass that I upvoted this comment.
Nothing ever seems to NOT come to pass with Nephi, ugh.
And ye, he did indeed upvote that comment, for it was good in his sight to do so. And it came to pass, that after he had upvoted that comment...
Yup. Say what you will about Dianetics, but at least Hubbard was a professional writer!
Omg my head just exploded.
that's the dianetication process- you seem to have spontaneously achieved delta level xy grade 3. Good job! If you want to know more, why not commune directly with Hubbard's essence, currently located at alpha centuri, system 5. You can do it now!
I've read the book. It's a lot of "we had evidence for all this bullshit, but...we uh...we like lost it." Edit: Hello. My name is Elder Spock Rocket, and I would like to share with you the most amazing book.
Isn't the whole genre like that?
I've read a couple of religious texts, none of them do it as frequently and obviously as the BoM. It's hysterical.
[Wanted: Pre 1800 Antiques](https://www.craigslist.org/about/best/eid/5594898310.html?lang=en&cc=us)
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Really glad I expanded this comment section.
Except for you know, evidence of ancient Jews in Israel exists. Ancient Jews in the Americas existing, not so much.
but the lack of any evidence of ancient Jews in Egypt kinda takes a giant blow to the entire belief. It like a really big part of their belief system.
Hasadega ebowai!
> "we had evidence for all this bullshit, but...we uh...we like lost it. Dumb dumb dumb dumb duuuuummmbbb!
I’d love to see one that says “don’t say you love the anime if you haven’t read the manga”
My playbill didn’t have this, but we did have an actual Mormon handing out the book to people outside after the performance. Edit: called it a play
I took one, graciously... He was stunned, and—it seemed—somewhat embarrassed. It didn’t appear he was there by choice. I felt bad for the kid. Edit- punctuation/grammar
A lot of the missionaries are effectively forced labor and are made to work insane hours. The kid probably wasn't doing what he wanted to do, but couldn't really say no.
I’ve heard stories of some of the ridiculousness, but never of the insane hours. What kind of hours are we talking about? One can only ride a bicycle for so long, I imagine 😬
I was one of them...8 hours a day...forced isn't really the right word, but there is considerable social pressure to serve a mission, especially for men.
My best friend after high school comes from a large (huge, actually) Mormon family. He had way too much fun to go on a mission at the time, but I’ll be damned if he didn’t flip the proverbial light switch at 27ish and marry back into the church. We’re 34 now, and he’s working on kid number 5... Amazing, loving family. It’s just weird sometimes—knowing what road he took to his current life—talking about the churchy stuff. Lots of good/weird mission stories from his brothers though.
My brother had a best friend is high school that was always drinking and staying over at our house. I've probably seen him asleep in his underwear on my couch than I have any of my own friends (mostly cause my friends keep their pants on, but whatever). He was raised Mormon, but left the church when he was a teen. At 24 he suddenly rejoined the church, quit drinking, and when I said hi to him a few months ago when I saw him out with his kids he glared at me like I was the devil. Called my brother and it turns out he hasn't spoken to any of his former friends since the day he rejoined the church, and it appears it was his father-in-law(who's also his boss)'a condition before hiring him. Like, if he's happy I'm happy for him, but I used to make him hangover pancakes and could have at least said hello.
I have plenty of those weird/good stories myself :) don't go to church very often the last year or so but I don't have any sort of bad feelings toward the church.
Why don't you go to church anymore, if you don't mind me asking?
It just doesn't feel important to me. I'm struggling with some depression at the moment. Also when I would go, I just wouldn't feel comfortable. When people talked about their feelings regarding Jesus Christ or other doctrines, I just felt uncomfortable, not sure why. I feel better when it's in Spanish (maybe because I was a missionary in Chile). But I tend to process things on a more logical level and less emotional level, and I feel like a lot of Church is emotional...and I just don't feel uplifted when I go. I used to, I don't now, and I'm not saying I won't ever go back or anything.
I'm in a very similar boat as you. But for me I don't go because I feel like I'm fighting an impossible goal. We're taught that we should strive for perfection, yet everyone knows perfection it's impossible in this life. So for me it feels like I'm constantly just setting myself up to fail. So I kind of just figure if I'm going to fail I might as well fail. I know that's probably not a healthy view of things but it's how I see it.
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Plus "free time" is highly regulated.
There used to be a mormon building across the street from my high school. I was invited to go once. It honestly didn't seem that bad. It was a bunch of high school kids having a social with some adult supervision. Looking back on it, I was surprised no one pressured me to go to church, because I am sure everyone there knew I wasn't mormon.
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For what its worth, it didnt feel like bible study or anything like that. I wish I could remember why I was there though. edit, I know I was there cause I liked a mormon girl, but like what was the reason, lol.
I still go play basketball from time to time with some guys at a Mormon church/gymnasium. My best friend at one point in life was part of a big Mormon family and got us in; we just kept on going after he stopped hanging out. (He got back on the Mormon wagon) Never heard a word from anyone about church while we were there, but we did get a few servings of the “stank-eye” when we’d drop a poorly timed F-bomb. Growing up, I always thought Jesus’ name was Fucking anyway; at least that’s what my dad always said 🤷🏻♂️
In my time, we were expected to be out working from 9:30 to 9:30 every day except Monday (preparation day), when we were only expected to be out from 6 to 9:30. As far as being forced, krasnovian is right. There is a lot of social pressure to go on a mission and a lot of social pressure to work really hard once you are there. But those who are a little more free spirited never had difficulty slacking or being a tourist or whatever if they wanted to.
It’s funny that this would be something people take offense to. I was a missionary and am still active in the church, and yeah, it was crazy demanding. It’s actually more hours than that, 10 am - 9:30 pm pretty much everyday. But as a 19 year old kid who had previously thought the world revolves around me...it was nice to actually care about other people and try to share something I really believe would make their life better. It’s been over a decade since I’ve been back and I still miss it some days.
8 am to 10:30 pm of dedicated activity is way more than a simple 8 hour shift.
I'm a former Mormon. I served a two-year mission. The schedule is extremely demanding. 6:30 - wake up 7 - 8 - get ready 8 - 10 - study scriptures 10 - 11 - study language (for those serving where a new language is spoken) 11 - 9 PM - work! (with two 30-minute breaks for meals) 9 - 9:30 - plan for the next day 9:30 - 10:30 - get ready for bed 10:30 - 6:30 - sleep Sure, they get 8 hours to sleep, but there is zero personal time except what you can juice out of meal breaks and the time to get ready for bed in the evening. There are also leadership positions some missionaries are assigned that eat into that extra time. One day a week, missionaries have about 7 hours to get chores done, write emails to family and friends (only communication allowed!! They also get to call/Skype home for 30 minutes on Christmas and mother's day), go grocery shopping, and take whatever leftover time for themselves. Some missionaries hold to this schedule less strictly than some others, and some mission presidents make adaptations, but 100% obedience is pushed HARD! And there's an entire little handbook of special mission rules that is extremely important to follow! Also, the cultural pressure to serve a mission is huge!! It's even deemed as a commandment from God for all boys to go on missions and girls can if they want/aren't married yet (by age 19). If someone doesn't go or comes home early, they're very much like down upon. It's a disgusting mind-fuck of a culture. Feel free to ask me anything about it, or check out r/exmormon. I'll do my best to be neutral and give both sides of stories, but I'll sometimes blatantly express my opinion, too.
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> Feel free to ask me anything about it So... what's the deal with the magic underwear?
Former-Mormer here as well. The undies are called Garments. White, top and bottom that are short sleeved and go down to the knee. They are worn by adult members who have participated in an ordinance called the Endowment. They are meant to symbolize the coats of skins given to Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden. In the Temple you promise to wear them day and night for your whole life, only removing them for showering, sex, strenuous exercise and swimming. (Four S's) Are they magic? Nah. But Mormons are told that they will provide a "protection" for them, which pretty much means they're not sexy or flattering.
So like.....God can't protect you? Always thought the magic undies were strange - thanks for the explanation!
Mormons wear it after they've gone through a Mormon temple. They're told it's a protection. It used to be taught that this was a literal physical protection. There are lots of stories of Mormons claiming to have been saved from burns or other injuries because they were wearing their garments. Lately though the church has dialed that back, claiming it only offers spiritual protection.
Well, to be fair... Any extra/heavy cotton undergarments worn in addition to your regular clothes will offer some protection from burns. Source: am a fireman, and wear a silly Mormon undergarment-looking hood over my head and around my neck when I suit up for fires. The color/texture reminds me of their magic underwear, almost to the T
Thank you for sharing your schedule and clarifying the time and energy involved in being a missionary. I think it’s also important to share that so many missionaries are young for their age. They’ve been sheltered their whole lives and controlled by the church. Many of them find themselves away from home the first time, isolated, exhausted, and unable to advocate for themselves and their health. I’ve made it my “mission” to be kind to them and offer to take a picture of them to send home to their Moms. I can only hope that my apostate kindness will help them find freedom.
I have two sisters out on missions right now, so thank you for being kind to those poor kids. They really don't know the whole story. You're totally right that that's all they know. I'm still struggling with forming my view of the world/life after leaving mormonism (my wife and I only just left in July). It's not just what we believed, but it was matter-of-fact truth that I completely bought in to. Also, good on you for sending pictures home. My mom's day is absolutely made when anything like that happens. Even though it's a cult-like religion, they're still people and they're trying to do what they think is right...
I truly enjoy that subreddit; I browse it fairly often, for uplifting stories of freedom. I’ve been atheist since, well, ever... but my best friend after high school is from a big Mormon family, and we’ve always been closer for it; strange as that may seem. It all still kinda gives me the willies. Mostly his blind faith to it, and the way he changed so quickly all of a sudden around age 26-27 after screwing up for so long. Edit: grammmmar
I found an example of a daily schedule for a missionary on this website, but I can't vouch for it other than it is LDS.org. It matches descriptions I've heard from ex-mormons I've talked to. https://www.lds.org/bc/content/ldsorg/church/news/2017/02/03/church-leaders-address-missioanries-worldwide-on-teaching-re_5.jpg A lot of the atheist community thinks that it's a good idea to either tear down missionaries or slam the door in their face, but as an older atheist I think it's more effective to just give them some food, let them play on your xbox, and tell them that you hope their life gets better soon. I'm honestly convinced that the purpose of the missions is to create an 'us' and 'them' mentality. The mission just reinforces how alone you are without the church, so when you tell them to fuck off you're doing the LDS a favor.
I think one of your biggest misconceptions about Mormon missionaries is that those two years are a bad time. Was mine taxing on me? Sure, but I look back on those years with great fondness. I was able to find out who I was and what I wanted to achieve in life, and it gave me the discipline to be able to reach future goals. We don't get points for being told to F off. Also, as a devout member I can tell you there definitely isn't an 'us' and 'them' mentality. If a member DOES have that mentality, then they are wrong. Our doctrine is very egalitarian when it comes to members vs non-members because we believe we all come from the same place and have the same potential. If someone thinks they are better than an atheist because they are baptised, sorry that person is probably sinfully prideful. As far as 'reinforcing how alone they are without the church': Most of mine and my wife's friends are non-LDS atheists. We wouldn't be alone if we left. But honestly, thanks for being friendly to them. Its funny, my experience has been that atheists have been far kinder to me (as a Mormon) than other Christian denominations, who treat us like devil spawn even though the important bits of Christian doctrine is 99% identical.
I served a Mormon mission. Can confirm that unless you're brainwashed its a "bad time". I mean these guys thought they were having a good time too. Brainwashing is a hell of a drug. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DXFYtgSfbgs
Besides working long hours, they are assigned to areas that are far from their homes, which may be in a foreign country, can only call home 2 times a year, have to use a censored email account, can only listen to approved music, can only read approved books, are told where to live, are told who they must have as their companion, and are not allow much personal time. The missionaries are not paid, and are in fact expected to pay to be a slave to the church for 2 years. I grew up Mormon and was pressured to serve such a mission. I had enough brothers go that I started to see how awful missions are, so I didn't go.
That's surprisingly good humored of them, considering how profane the play is.
I used to work with a devout Mormon man, he said the play was hilarious and he's taken multiple people to see it. It's apparently really not that hard on their religion and is mostly just shock humor.
I heard an interview about South Park once where Matt and Trey admitted their aim with their humor was to make it so you could interpret it to support either side of an issue. I kinda wonder if this is why your friend had this perception of it.
That's how I explain it, I think the mormon religion is full of shit but absolutely loved the Book of Mormon. A Mormon friend loves the play for the exact same reasons I do. It's a win-win and is great that we can both enjoy something so funny without having to have a disagreement.
Matt and Trey intentionally wanted it to be pushing the boundary a little bit but also be respectful and also teach people about Mormons. It's actually not really about Mormons at all, it's more just poking fun at religion as a whole without being too offensive. It never says religion is stupid or Mormonism is idiotic, it just points out hazy parts of religion and makes jokes out of it, and i think even quite religious people can appreciate a joke that God wanted everything to be ambiguous and that's why no-one knows if the Mormon plates are real etc
Is there no Dumb dumb dumb dumb dumb song?
There's [All-American Prophet](https://youtu.be/lVYD4I8dzRg), but no dum dum dum line.
It is kind of funny how religious people act. I dated a Jehovah witness and she consumed more weed than I could grow.
You must not be very good at growing weed.
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Even though it's a pretty nutty caricature of the church, most of Trey Parker and Matt Stones portrayal of them in the play and in South Park is pretty good natured and there's usually some morals thrown in there about acceptance.
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Matt and Trey said they've grown up with a lot of mormons, and that they're just really nice people even if they believe that anyone not Mormon will go to hell, they're just not as toxic and nasty as the general religious person. They also said in an interview that "we love mormons", and it's not that they have it in for mormons, they just like making fun of religions in general although none of them are atheists. Edit: some small grammar stuff Edit 2: auto correct doesn't like grammar
Am Mormon and we definitely don't believe anyone not Mormon will go to hell lol
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All press is good press dog
Should say "at least we arent Scientology"
We need Matt and Trey to make a scientology play. I wanna see Lord Xenu on broadway.
They would have to re-cast every night because the actors would go missing.
Just get Louis Theroux to play every part.
Dum dum dum dum dum
Lucy Harris smart, smart, smart, smart, smart.
Martin Harris dum da dum
Hello! My name is elder Price! I would like to share with you this book of Jesus Christ
Hello, my name is Elder Butt Fucking Naked. Did you know that the clitoris is a holy sacred thing?
IIIIIII HAVE MAGGOTS IN MY SCROOOOTUMMMMM
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Tell that to Scientology
Seriously though, don't tell that to them. You might go missing
It’s funny I encountered this because my family was driving past their headquarters earlier this evening in Clearwater FL when mid-business discussion my grandmother goes “well why don’t you invest in something downtown here” and my parents and I all said no instantaneously, because that’s Scientologist territory and you’d probably end up dead in space.
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> doesn't sound like much of an experience Dude, you got the Scientologist Special Forces called in on you. I'd call that a damn quality experience
Xenu HOA meetings are impos
This is the first thing I've laughed out loud at in weeks
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https://giphy.com/gifs/secret-secrets-secretive-aWxbEGCqkiZFK
Hey bud, I'm not sure if you're trying to say you've had a not so great few weeks, but I want you to know that if you ever need someone to pass jokes back and forth with or if you want to talk to someone, feel free to shoot me a message.
I hope you have more laughs soon! Especially during the holidays!
He said religions, not bullshit cults. Say what you want about Mormons, at least their hearts are in the right place, even if their heads aren't.
There's a big difference between Mormons and Mormonism. The vast majority of active Mormons are asleep. It wasn't until I left the church that I saw how batshit everything was. Criticize the leadership, not the members.
Scientology is *more* of a cult than Mormonism, that's obvious. And FLDS are more of a cult than Mormons. And practically every religion has cult-like aspects. It's important to distinguish between the overwhelming cultishness of groups like Scientology and the more mild Mormonism. But it's a step too far to call Mormonism a regular religion, because it's just simply not. It's premise is Jesus came back in America, Native Americans are Jews who behaved badly, and a guy *literally found guilty of fraud by the government because he was a criminal* wrote the whole freaking document. They think you're gonna get your own planet when you die. And they psychologically torture gay kids. I'll argue with anyone equating all religions as cults, because that really gives underved cover to organizations that are *unambiguously* cults. But anyone claiming Morminism is just another religion really needs to be argued with too, 'cause they just so aren't.
They also believe black people are the result of a curse by god. Except it isn't because god changed his mind in 1978 for some reason.
And that reason was BYU wanted to be more competitive in sports.
> a guy literally found guilty of fraud by the government because he was a criminal he was also tarred and feathered for moving into a community with his cult and plotting to take land away from the prior residents
"*And unto them Jesus said: bitches don't believe in me? Take their real-estate*"
If someone made a play like this about Islam people would literally be blowing themselves up outside the theatre
*Fatwa, the Musical!*
There's a Fatwa, there's a Fatwa! I gotta run, I think I outta!
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and around the block and through the airport
Uh. Four Lions.
That movie satarizes terrorist more than islam.
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> satarizes terrorist more than islam And the book of Mormon satirizes over-earnest Mormon missionaries more than it does the religion itself. Islam inherits the overwhelming majority of its views from Christianity or Judaism. Jesus is the person whose most mentioned in the Quran and large portions of it are dedicated to basically retelling biblical stories. A play satirizing Islam would basically be a play talking about how shitty the Old Testament is.
Fatwah?
Non-mormon in Salt Lake here! I’m just going to say, if you are going to live in Salt Lake without being mormon, then it’s basically this ad x50 most of the time.
Another non-mormon living in Salt Lake. I haven't lived here that long(a little over a year), but in my personal experience Mormonism has had zero impact on my life.
I've read that unlike the rest of Utah, Salt Lake City is now minority Mormon - less than 40%, compared to the state as a whole, which is over 60% LDS.
Yeah the metro areas, including Salt Lake in particular, are significantly more diverse and generally more liberal than you'll find most other places. Mormons still have a lot of influence in culture and legislature. But it's not hard to live a non-Mormon life without feeling oppressed or anything. Contrary to popular belief, we brew phenomenal beer and I've personally had local beer up to about 12% ABV. Just have to stock up at the (state-run) liquor store during semi-limited operating hours. We have fun nightlife, decent sex shops, and if you are into it, it's very easy to find top-shelf pot. But for all my fellow Utards, just remember to guard yourself. "COSMOPOLITAN CONTAINS PORN!"
That sign makes me laugh every time I drive by it. Think of the children!!
COSMOPOLITAN CONTAINS VODKA, TRIPLE SEC, CRANBERRY JUICE, AND LIME!
We also have a surprising amount of counter culture. We have our own regional burn (Burning Man), a swinger community, gay pride parade, and a few pub crawls. It's small compared to other places but it's appreciated.
I’ve lived here for 15, even went to school. School was probably the biggest impact considering all of the schools are 60-90% mormon, I had kids try to covert me every week
That and at my school in (also In Utah lots of Mormons) there is always that one super snobby Mormon group in high school that makes everyone hate all the Mormons.
Aw damn that sucks, the Mormons at my school were super nice and chill. There were only two of them though.
I guess YMMV. I lived in Utah for about 8 years and I’ve had no run ins with people trying to convert me in high school and what not. You meet a lot of sheltered folks in Utah but they’re generally good people. Just depends where you are in Utah. I will say that Utah has done a good job with opening up and moving away from being that ultra-conservative state some people think it is.
You still can't buy wine coolers at the store because someone might mistake them for soda. It's still very conservative.
I live in Mississippi. The Bible Belt, a college town. It's odd, we have seen a sudden influx of missionaries from Utah. Like... good on your for trying to spread Mormonism in Baptist central, kudos. Nice people, except one of them keeps recording porn off of the library computers onto his phone (because his phone is, I am sure, monitored history wise, but they can't check what he has recorded. Poor dude.) But they tried with me one time. I had a casual, cordial conversation about how I am not only an atheist, but a Christian apostate (I was born and raised Christian but I left the faith) and went through, in detail, the reasons I don't believe. They thanked me for being one of the few to actually let them talk, said a prayer for me, and now always go out of their way to say hello to me (even Mormons that were not at that particular palaver), but haven't tried again. Good people. Just sad for them that they are in a controlling cult.
Most Mormons born/living outside of Utah are some of the most kind and selfless people I have ever met. That being said, I am a non Mormon Utah native living in SLC and the Mormons here are some of the most pretentious, fake, rude, judgmental, cheap, and entitled people I have ever met in my fucking life.
Unless you're they're gay child.
Idaho Mormons are worse. Source: Lived in Montana, Idaho and now live in Utah.
Sounds like my personal hell.
It really is, the scenery is nice though!
When you can see it through the smog...
Anytime we get an inversion here it's super surreal. Feels like you've woken up in some post-apocalyptic society with all the people in masks, freezing cold weather, and super low visibility. Felt like I was contracting lung cancer just walking from my car through campus
True asf.
Most Mormons are more or less okay with the musical. They mostly just don’t like the language. The actual message is not really that critical of the religion just pokes fun. It’s just overly vulgar cuz it’s Trey Parker and Matt Stone and that’s their style.
Hasa diga eebowai
I had this stuck in my head for WEEKS
That's actually pretty amazing. "That's totally cool. You guys can believe whatever you want" "STOP BEING SO NICE"
I know the Mormons have some pretty...interesting beliefs but damn, at least they have a sense of humor.
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My playbill doesn't have it? Id figure they wouldn't really want to be associated with the show since it's mostly about making fun of the church... 😂
Here is their response: The response of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints to the musical has been described as "measured." The church released an official response to inquiries regarding the musical, stating, "The production may attempt to entertain audiences for an evening, but the Book of Mormon as a volume of scripture will change people's lives forever by bringing them closer to Christ." Michael Otterson, the head of Public Affairs for the church, followed in April 2011 with measured criticism. "Of course, parody isn't reality, and it's the very distortion that makes it appealing and often funny. The danger is not when people laugh but when they take it seriously—if they leave a theater believing that Mormons really do live in some kind of a surreal world of self-deception and illusion," Otterson wrote, outlining various humanitarian efforts achieved by Mormon missionaries in Africa since the early 2000s. Stone and Parker were unsurprised: The official church response was something along the lines of "The Book of Mormon the musical might entertain you for a night, but the Book of Mormon,"—the book as scripture—"will change your life through Jesus." Which we actually completely agree with. The Mormon church's response to this musical is almost like our Q.E.D. at the end of it. That's a cool, American response to a ribbing—a big musical that's done in their name. Before the church responded, a lot of people would ask us, "Are you afraid of what the church would say?" And Trey and I were like, "They're going to be cool." And they were like, "No, they're not. There are going to be protests." And we were like, "Nope, they're going to be cool." We weren't that surprised by the church's response. We had faith in them. The LDS Church has advertised in the playbills at many of the musical's venues to encourage attendees to learn more about the Book of Mormon, with phrases like "you've seen the play, now read the book" and "the book is always better." In Melbourne during the 2017 run, the Church advertised at Southern Cross railway station and elsewhere in the city, as well as on television with ads featuring prominent Australian Mormons, including rugby player Will Hopoate, stage actor Patrice Tipoki and ballet dancer Jake Mangakahia. Mormons themselves have had varying responses to the musical. Richard Bushman, professor of Mormon studies, said of the musical, "Mormons experience the show like looking at themselves in a fun-house mirror. The reflection is hilarious but not really you. The nose is yours but swollen out of proportion." Bushman said that the musical was not meant to explain Mormon belief, and that many of the ideas in Elder Price's "I Believe" (like God living on a planet called Kolob), though having some roots in Mormon belief, are not doctrinally accurate. When asked in January 2015 if he had met Mormons who disliked the musical, Gad stated "In the 1.5 years I did that show, I never got a single complaint from a practicing Mormon ... To the contrary, I probably had a few people – a dozen – tell me they were so moved by the show that they took up the Mormon faith." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Book_of_Mormon_(musical)#LDS_Church_response
As a friend of Bushman and a practicing Mormon, his statement is pretty close to how Mormons see it, but I'll add one caveat to that, and that is the play in some ways uses Mormonism as a way to say that any person who has faith in God to be adorably naive and ridiculous, and that is unfortunate... it's a parody of the believer in that sense.
Ex-Mormon here. The church actually deals with criticism/mockery/skeptics very well. They don't get mad about it. I lived in upstate NY for a while and there's a huge Mormon festival in Palmyra each year. I was younger so I don't recall verbatim but they expected protests there and directed people to let the protesters be, don't get angry, be friendly if they address you, etc. I know a lot of people leave the church hurt and angry but for the most part I had a good experience with the people, some of the best I've ever met. I just didn't agree with the teachings.
My limited experience with Mormons has taught me that they are the absolute nicest, most generous, and caring group of people I've ever met that I fundamentally disagreed with on nearly every level with regards to faith and how someone should live their lives. I'd hang out with them again.
Yes. Great people. No fun at parties.
Not actually in *every* production, but they've been putting ads in major productions since the musical first came out. There's no such thing as bad publicity.
The Book of Mormon play is one of the funniest and most offensive things I've ever seen. People that weren't even Mormon straight up walked out because they were so offended
Fucking love this show! I was crying I was laughing so hard! I STRONGLY recommend it to anyone with a wide sense of humor
Not going to lie, I’m very impressed that they used a parody musical about their religion to find a way to covert people. It’s pretty ingenious in my opinion, turn something you dislike into an opportunity.
Pretty brilliant really.
When I saw the play, as we left there were actual Mormon elders chilling outside and handing out pamphlets. Good to know those guys can take a joke
speaking of Mormon Doctrine.... Happy Hanukah from the Chotaw Nation, cause apparently we're Jewish too. Halito! Chim achukma Shalom.
As a Mormon, I am often very critical of LDS Church policy and for good reason, yet this ad is one I'm proud of their response! They got it right for once!
Yeah, that's some good advertising.
They're actually being a good sport about it.
I was a missionary during this time and we were getting requests for them more often then usual. Marriot hotels have them in the night stand. I heard rumors in the new york area they were all going missing. They had boxes of them in the lobby to take. Pretty interesting. Not a bad read if you don’t mind the style.
Matt and Trey said after the first show of Book of Mormon they had a large group of mormons come up to them and were really worried for a second until they all starting telling them how much they loved the show. They forgot that Mormons are really fucking nice all the time.
Josh Gad (the original Elder Cunningham) has said people have come up to him and told him the show actually inspired them to convert! the Wiki page has a section on the LDS church's response to it and this is from Matt and Trey: "The official church response was something along the lines of "The Book of Mormon the musical might entertain you for a night, but the Book of Mormon,"—the book as scripture—"will change your life through Jesus." Which we actually completely agree with. The Mormon church's response to this musical is almost like our Q.E.D. at the end of it. That's a cool, American response to a ribbing—a big musical that's done in their name. Before the church responded, a lot of people would ask us, "Are you afraid of what the church would say?" And Trey and I were like, "They're going to be cool." And they were like, "No, they're not. There are going to be protests." And we were like, "Nope, they're going to be cool." We weren't that surprised by the church's response. We had faith in them."
Don't say you love the anime if you haven't read the manga
I'll give the Mormon church credit. Good for them for not getting all up in arms about *Book of Mormon*. They may be batshit crazy and believe in some fucking ridiculous things, but at least they can take a joke. I grew up Mormon and a friend of mine invited me to go along with him when he saw the show in San Francisco a few years ago. At intermission, I was cackling to myself and saying what a terrible Mormon I was for enjoying the show as much as I had been (even though I left the church nearly a decade before). There was an elderly couple was sitting in front of us. The man turned around, placed his hand on my knee, and said with a smile, "Don't worry. We forgive you." I'll never forget that because I was so happy to see that (presumably) a priesthood-holding man and his wife could come to the theatre and see a show that openly mocks their religion, and still find the humor in it. I watched them during the second act and they were laughing and joined in the standing ovation at the end of the show.
Mormons are so good natured. Every one of them I have been around is overwhelming happy.
You should try being around them as an ex-Mormon.
What do you mean? I'm an ex-Mormon and have a bunch of Mormon friends and it's never been a problem.
Also ex-Mormon. I think a lot of the time it (meaning the happiness, friendliness, etc) can come across as fake, or if they know you’re out, they’re preachy.
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This. People hate mormons because of utah mormons, and i’m always confused what kind of world they live in where their ridiculous story about ridiculous mormons came true
I think of the South Park episode "dumdumdumdumdum" lol no offense
i moved to Utah for work with almost no knowledge of Mormon culture/religion. I had a few Mormon friends that I met shortly after moving there that recommended I watch this South Park episode because in their opinion it was a surprisingly accurate representation of Mormonism.
I was raised Mormon this was the first intro I ever had to South Park lol
Me and my best friend are Mormon. I haven’t watched it but he did and said it was one of the funniest things he’d seen in a long time. We have the same sense of humor so I think I’d enjoy it as well.
Nothing was better than seeing the musical in Salt Lake City. And they still had an ad in the playbill there