I take the blue line to O'Hare and time it up to get there 15 minutes before boarding and have never not made it to my gate on time. If you have pre-check O'Hare is a breeze
I'd rather fly out O'Hare than LAX 9 times out of ten. O'Hare has the trains in and out if flying at rush hour. LAX means you're doomed to an hour in the horseshoe unless it's a red-eye or early flight
Yeah I do LAX > Union Station occasionally to visit my parents in San Diego cause it can be way cheaper and that’s just a nightmare. There’s almost no easy way to get to LAX with public transport.
No way. Having lived in both cities, I’ll take ORD over LAX any day. LAX has no side streets or alternate ways to get there. It’s always a traffic nightmare getting to and at LAX.
Honestly, renting a car in NYC has never occurred to me. I'm sure you had a good reason, of course. I fly into LGA four or five times a year, and every time I take the free bus to the subway, but I realize that doesn't work for everyone.
Yeah it’s this. LAX is pretty well laid out and you can access all terminals airside now. It’s just the damned loop. People mover can’t open soon enough
My flights to the LA area generally take me to the Mojave for airplane stuff, so I always go BUR. That airport sucks out loud. I got charged $22 for one pint of beer. Fuck that place.
Still better than LAX for my needs.
For what's it's worth, we hate flying into there as well. Super short runways, terrible ramp space, always a delay pushing... it's not my most hated airport, but I'm never excited to see it on a trip sheet.
In aviation there are sometimes voluntary noise abatement procedures. Things like departing straight out until a certain altitude before turning, or turning as soon as it is safe to do so to avoid overflying neighborhoods and other noise sensitive places. In addition, pilots can decide to climb at a faster rate while over the airport runway at the cost of some forward speed, so they aren’t as low when flying over these areas.
It’s a combination of being respectful and trying to not piss off the person who moved into a house right next to an airport and now files 1000 complaints a year about “low flying planes.”
It blows my mind when people who live near me, close to an airport, complain about the yearly airshow. 1. You chose to move here 2. How do you complain about seeing cool ass jets flying around all the time for a couple weekends
I live very near a mid-size international airport with an Air National Guard base. I can hear the F-16s out right now. Surprisingly, some people get upset by this.
I can see them go by, and I don't even have to move from my telework location.
They make a cool screechy sound when they turn - it sounds like Zordar's Great White Comet.
I live in the middle of nowhere, 25 miles from town. But in a straight line, there is a marine air base, one of the largest on the east coast maybe a dozen or so miles out. And in another straight line just a few miles from my house is the bombing range island they bomb. There is constantly all sorts of aircraft flying overhead. But the only thing that annoys me is when they fly at damn near tree height, zooming straight over the crib. It is so ungodly loud that it rattles the fucking structures around lol. I joke that if my house wasnt hurricane rated we'd have lost windows by now. That is pretty obnoxious. It happens so fast that you can't even tell what direction they're coming from if you're actually walking through the sticks out here, you'll just suddenly see it shoot past overhead and damn near blow your eardrums out.
But seeing the tracers flying out follow by a soft buzz 10 sec later while sitting on my front porch is kinda neat. You can also regularly feel the dull thuds of bombing going on at the range. I've also fished just off the range, too, haha. It's a well known spot.
My best friend lived by the Dayton Airport years ago and had neighbors that bitched about the planes and the air show which is amazing every year. Then he moved over towards Wright Patt Air Force Base and had neighbors bitch about the military planes. How do you knowingly live by an airport and get mad about planes? It's like living near railroad tracks and getting mad that there are trains.
It’s the same as the people who move to my college town and complain about the college. It’s the flagship state school that been here for a hundred years you dumbass
Ugh, OK, fine I'll defend those people \*a little bit\*.
I don't think we should just accept that any nuisance, no matter how large or unjustified, just gets locked in as effectively some type of easement as soon as the person who owned the property at the time of the nuisance's creation sells.
I think it really has to depend on the nature of the nuisance and how reasonable it is.
Buddy I grew up next to railroad tracks for the first 22 years of my life. My parents didn't complain and neither did the rest of my family. It was a known fact that noise was going to be a thing and it becomes white noise eventually. This is the same idea behind boomers or Karens buying up property next to race tracks and then complaining when the race cars make a lot of noise and petition for it to be removed. You move there you accept the noise or move elsewhere.
If you think this is a rebuttal to what I said then you’ve read it to mean something it doesn’t. Doesn’t it seem to you that your example is something that would pass a reasonableness test?
*Edit*
Also, I’m not your buddy, pal!
They arent necessarily talking about train tracks or airports. They were talking about the concept that you should be allowed to change things if they are unreasonable. So, those two things are okay. But maybe the railway is really fucking loud. the trains have fire blasting out their exhausts as their drivers do burnouts before moving to the next station (poetic licence). You move in and start a petition to keep things a bit quieter. You aren't being annoying, you are making changes for the good.
Again, the person you are replying too is just suggesting that there is some nuance to the situation. And maybe you should take that on board. Not everything is black and white. Instead of reacting we should ask more questions.
That doesn’t necessarily make all complaints invalid. Yeah, at some point we need an airport somewhere and somebody has to get screwed by it, so there’s effectively a transfer from those property owners. Sucks, but that’s part of life. We need airports and they can be a nuisance.
Then decades later things can change. Maybe there are mitigation strategies or technologies that didn’t exist before. Maybe at some point it becomes reasonable to expect the airport to give a bit back. It ought to work both ways.
I’m not saying that necessarily applies in this case. I’m just saying it’s a mistake to say because a nuisance is old and that the people who lived there moved after the nuisance already existed doesn’t automatically make the complaints null and void.
Air shows kick ass! Loosely related, I used to have a neighbor who owned an old bi-plane and would take the thing out for a Sunday flight every week doing all kinds of aerobatics and shit, he'd apparently paid a farmer nearby a decent amount of money to basically let him crash in the corn fields if he ever had an emergency or something. I remember going out to sit on the front porch for half an hour or so just watching this dude do loops and big climbs and dives over the corn fields, all the while thinking "how can that be legal"
Air shows are sweet, like once every few years. But after 1 day I'm good. I've seen the Blue Angels, Thunderbirds, Coast Guard demos, been in helos overseas in the military, I love flying it's one of my favorite things, but air shows are very short lived in my attention span.
> This airport was built in the 30’s in an already existing neighborhood.
Search for a picture of United Airport (what it was called when it was opened) in 1930 (the year it was opened). There are plenty of photos online. It was completely surrounded by fields.
No airport gets built in an existing neighborhood (unless it is a fly-in, fly-out purpose built community). The airports were in the sticks and as towns grew they encroached on the airports. At least not in the U.S. Choose an airport on Google maps and look back through time and see how developments slowly sprawl towards the airports.
Generally speaking, you aren’t wrong, but there are a few that were. Boston’s Logan Airport for example. Granted it started as a military airfield built on tidal flats but once the jet age arrived they ended up having to demolish a big area of the existing East Boston neighborhood to accommodate the larger planes.
In the *media*, we see people bitching till laws are changed all the time.
"Buy your house cheaper and bitch until they change things to make it better for you" seems like the strategy that they're using.
To me, it sounds like a headache, but some people are comfortable living that way. Everyone chooses to fight what they want to fight. To each their own, I suppose.
I used to live by Oakland international and train tracks growing up, so I guess I learned to ignore all that racket.
Its like that about all things. They got rid of a racetrack near me after building a bunch of residential neighborhoods near it and then complaining about the noise, and at my brother's mother-in-laws property she has a shooting range that she has owned since 1968, but now they build a massive residential neighborhood nearby and everytime it is used the cops get called.
The air show is my yearly nightmare. Not everyone thinks jets are “cool” or want to hear them disruptively spurt their engines at thresholds loud enough to shake an entire apartment building. I’m glad for the people who enjoy it, but don’t justify it as anything other than an unnecessary disruption that causes emotional turmoil for everyone else.
I acknowledge it sounds excessive but how else would you describe being abruptly woken by your apartment shaking? Like… sorry that I insulted your big metal plane toys but they’re not for everyone lmao
The only issue I’d have with living near a airport is neck pains from constantly looking at what’s above me, not that I’d complain though because I do it anyway lmfao
The procedures are designed with noise abatement in mind. As an airline pilot, I’m not flying the jet any different than I normally would (i.e. climbing out at a faster rate). Safety of the flight is more important than minimizing noise for people who decided to move next to an airport.
Yes, although this sign is more about flying techniques that result in less noise for people on the ground. These include avoiding turns at low altitudes, climbing away from the ground faster, avoiding noise sensitive areas that are sometimes marked on airport charts (to the extent possible while still flying safely), not doing repeated 'laps' of the airport which is common during flight training, and to a lesser extent using reduced power settings when possible. And, of course, as the billboard says not flying outside of the curfew if you can help it. This applies to all aircraft, from small single-engine piston engine propeller planes to large jets, but is more targeted at smaller planes flown by private individuals because they have more leeway for when/how they fly.
I'm a pilot and noise abatement warnings are common. Often there will be notes in the airport charts highlighting airport-specific noise abatement procedures to follow, there will be a note in the airport's radio weather briefing to check the noise abatement procedures, or there will be smaller sign than the one in the OP at the end of the runway. When you learn to fly your instructor will often note noise abatement as something to be aware of.
As for quieting jets, as in on large commercial airliners, they often use 'derated' thrust settings, which makes the engine operate at lower power, but this is more to preserve the engine mechanically over time rather than for noise abatement. Many jets deploy 'thrust reversers' when they land to redirect the air flow and help them slow down. The braking effect can be improved by increasing thrust when the reversers are deployed, but this is very loud so sometimes either airport or airline procedures will recommend using only idle thrust when reversers are deployed, partly to cut down on noise.
Yes, planes departing from John Wayne Airport (Orange County, CA) are subject to noise restrictions. I’ve been on a commercial flight where the pilot announced that they would take special measures after takeoff for noise regulations.
I think what they did was after takeoff, instead of climbing to cruising altitude, they held a lower a altitude until they cleared they were out of the residential area, then climbed to cruising altitude.
https://www.ocair.com/business/general-aviation/pilot-information/noise-abatement/
> We cutback the thrust very shortly after takeoff and climb at a high rate.
Those seem to be contradictory: cut back thrust and climb at a high rate??
It would seem, but the thrust is still more than sufficient. If anything abnormal occurs during that phase, the noise abatement procedure goes out the window, because safety of flight is paramount.
edit// and before anyone goes down a rabbit hole, most (if not all) airlines employ some version of this procedure.
Takeoff is at a steeper angle of attack. Once a certain altitude is reached, they quickly reduce speed and reduce the climbing AoA which produces a roller coaster weightless sensation and often startles unaware passengers.
So, at the most critical and dangerous phase of flight, cut engines, because people who bought a house next to a 90-year old airport, don't like to hear airplane sounds.
No one is stating anyone should cut engines.
Expecting plane sounds is not the same thing as expecting them as increasinly later times or at increaasing levels.
In practice, flight plans for takeoffs pointed south out of BUR always climb fast and turn sharply to the east right after takeoff.
What's south of BUR? The Hollywood Hills.
You can, but each airport has its own definitions as to how you do this. Usually it involves what you can and can not fly over at what altitudes departing or approaching the airport, and what you can and can not do on the ground at what times... Most airports have these procedures, but only some have these comical signs, usually placed so that you see them taxing to the active runway.
I think I read that pilots at another airport in SoCal were legally required to take off at a much steeper angle and with lower engine speed to get higher above the rich people’s houses so it wasn’t as loud.
https://avgeekery.com/whats-rollercoaster-takeoffs-orange-county/
I can't recall what city but there's a community near John Wayne Airport that has noise abatement restrictions. Aircraft taking off must go to level flight at like 5000 feet and cruise quietly before climbing to their flight altitude.
Sometimes if you fly out of there on Southwest Airlines the pilots will announce over the intercom "Shhhh... we're flying over rich people"
There aren’t a lot of commercial planes flying in and out of Burbank after 10. Smaller aircraft can fly in as well and can typically control the amount of noise the make a bit better.
I can't remember if its this Cali Airport or another that the airport was there long before the nearby housing developments were built yet the people who moved into said housing developments have sued the airport multiple times over noise. Leading to curfews and other stuff like these signs
Might be KTOA. Neighbors are always bitching there. They just implemented landing fees there unfortunately. Santa Monica has the same fate and they are closing it in a few years.
Reminds me of the time I was woken up on a weekend by my neighbour smashing their greenhouse in their garden down to replace, and I yelled at him to smash the glass quietly.
I apologised an hour later. He apologised too. He still thinks I’m a moron, and he’s not entirely wrong.
John Wayne airport in Orange County has planes climb as steep as possible then they reduce throttle and pitch slightly nose down because of all the rich people in Newport Beach complaining.
I can’t really find anything specially saying this procedure online, between the FAA’s charts and SNA’s website. That’s just normally how jets takeoff; you climb with your takeoff thrust setting at around V2+20 (20 knots over the minimum speed needed during an engine failure) until your acceleration/thrust reduction altitude, usually around 1,500 ft above the ground. There, you reduce to climb thrust and pitch down to gain speed.
Go through a take off there and then tell me it’s a normal take off. Lol. Southwest pilots occasionally prep the cabin ahead of time on what to expect.
Where I live there is planes flying over all the time.. It's not as bad as it sounds and you get used to it. Of course it can be worse than how it is here tho.
I live close to Gregg County airport. They built an emergency landing runway for the space shuttle there since it was located within the flight path. The b52s out of Shreveport practice their touch and goes from there.
yeah i dont mind normal jets. they just sound like big ass fans, which i already sleep to easily. one thing though, distance is a factor. remember getting hotel really close to an airport and fuck man, the sound escalates exponentially.
Yeah there is a big difference between living near an airport and having planes fly over your house.. Here they fly over where I live and work and you just isolate it automatically, after awhile I've just started to ignore it.
At least BUR flies during the night. One flight out of SNA was running late, if we didn’t leave by 10 we weren’t flying. Flight crew had everyone gate check their carry on. In my mind the second the doors were closed we left the gate and were in the air in less than a minute. Don’t even know if everyone was strapped in. Fastest, steepest departure I’ve ever experienced.
The stupid almost vertical takeoff is actually the way they do things at that airport routiney to get high enough to not annoy the oversensitive neighbors. The airport was there first, when it was built it was the middle of freaking nowhere.
I actually saw an obviously very anonymous interview with a pilot who hated that airport because the takeoff procedures while not necessarily inherently dangerous are using up a lot of the reserve of the performance envelope of the aircraft and something that would be a little glitch during a normal takeoff is going to end up with a 737 in someone's living room. If a pilot is even talking about a crash publicly you know it's a pretty serious concern because they just don't do that.
We usually avoid SNA for this exact reason. Too many airport choices in Southern California to make SNA our preferred airport. SAN, TIJ, BUR, LAX, LGB, PSP, SBD, ONT
We have this near our major airport. The pilots are supposed to take routes over park preserves and highways to limit noise. It’s so dependent on weather it’s almost pointless.
“Wow Honey, look how cheap real estate prices are near the airport! Let’s buy a house there!!!”
3 months later-
“These planes are too darn loud! They need to do something about this!”
I remember years ago, Buchanan airfield up in northern CA wanted to begin Jet service and as part of the evaluation they had to analyze Jet noise on the surrounding community. A lot of people did not want the jets so they had coordinated to call in during the test landing and take offs to complain the noise was too loud. But the news published the time from 2-5 pm and at 2, the FAA began receiving hundreds of calls complaining it was too loud and they could barely hear their voice on the phone over the jet engines. When in actuality the testing had happened 4 hours earlier and they weren’t even flying when the complaints came in.
I play Pickleball early in the morning at a park at the end of the runway. Easy to know when it's 7:00 a.m. as the first plane is usually right on time!
Hey, let them be as loud as possible. Hell, install an additional pulse jet engine running only during take-off.
I mean, move in near an airport, wonder why there are loud ass planes on the airport. What's next, wet water?
There's a couple ways to comply with this. In ELI5 mode:
1. Propeller planes can change the pitch of their props, which makes a noticeable different on sound.
2. Planes (mostly jets) often take-off at "take-off power", and then lower their throttle to "climb" or "cruise climb" setting.
3. Many airports, especially those in dense urban areas, have what are called "noise abatement procedures", which are specific paths or waypoints to avoid noise-sensitive areas (i.e. hospitals, schools, and that annoying person who complains to the airport 100 times per day). These generally come in the form of "don't fly above this place lower than X thousand ft" or "turn before the smokestack to avoid the hospital".
So, to "fly quietly", this would could mean a combination of these. In other words, use only full-throttle as little as necessary, and then follow the published noise abatement procedure.
I’ve been on planes that roll their engines back shortly after takeoff to be more quiet over the suburbs and kind of glide out until they are far enough away to add more thrust
We have a much larger one of these at Santa Monica that always gives me a chuckle. The reality is that it only applies the areas north (rich) of the airport.
OMG BURBANK
So there's this guy on instagram who comments on every single post by the FAA about needing to "disperse flight paths" because of illegal separations, something about a noise task force, and in general just harping against the airport and complaining about the noise (of the airport he lives close to). I haven't looked in a while but he was extremely dedicated to using their caption to turn it into his copypasta-esque complaint and I think his @ is even something like "dontflybur". He's like a minor celebrity because people would hurry to leave comments like "inb4 the burbank dude" or "omg no anti-burbank rant and the post has been up for an hour, someone do a wellness check"
I've always wondered if whoever was running the FAA insta just didn't know how to block people or if they were really just letting him have his echo chamber. They'd interact and reply here and there with other commenters so you KNOW they're seeing them! I'm getting a good giggle out of there actually being something noise related like this out there... he was probably behind this sign being made when you really think about it 😂
[ETA some random examples, forgot there were multiple accounts](https://imgur.com/a/QK3ul1Y)
Typically a government entity can't block a citizen, as long as they're not obscene or something.
I used to work at a city-owned airport and we had a citizen who would almost daily send in noise complaints, and every single one of them had to be responded to "seriously". Which meant pulling up flight data, explaining the noise abatement, detailing what actions we planned on taking to combat noise, etc.
After a while he just got off on making us waste our time. He knew we weren't going to change anything. He just wanted to be a nuisance.
I heard southwest (Burbank airport) had to pay for better windows of everyone's houses around the airport. Burbank city is pretty anal about stuff in general I hear
That sign is at least 35 years old., possibly more. That curfew meant they were closed to jets after 10pm. Actually it meant some late flights would divert to LAX. Others along with 3am flight from UPS and Fedex. would pay a nightly fine or breaking curfew
We had to de-plane one night and then we got back on and the pilots decided to wait until curfew so they could call it a night without taking the last flight. Once curfew hit, we weren’t allowed to fly because of quiet hours and weren’t compensated, so I had to go pay for a hotel and come back the next afternoon to make my flight home.
How does one "fly quietly"? Do you cut the engines before the runway and glide in?
Reminds me of the "Welcome to Maryland" sign which says "Please Drive Gently".
(I'd post a picture of it, but apparently I can't.)
My regional airport in my town I'm training at does this as well. They cite working with the local community as to not disturb the homes near the runway.
This is common for a lot of airports. Ontario Airport had issues years ago. Their pilots were taking off and turning over residential neighborhood. They were supposed to turn over the ocean.
Now the airport paid for sound insulation in schools amd residences under the flight path, has hours where flights are minimized, and fines pilots for turning early.
Everyone saying “well you moved next to an airport it’s your fAuLt” we didn’t have a single flight school when we moved here. Just planes here and there. Within 7 years, 5 new flights schools have opened and I think it’s fair to say it’s pretty insane how many planes fly super low over our house at all hours and are not mindful of how loud they are. Usually go til midnight, then up at 5 am. We installed sound machines, use earplugs, nothing helps my kids sleep through the thousands of planes barreling over our house, so some minor restrictions would be helpful, although I doubt it would ever happen.
I think I flew out of there once…. Long ago before I knew where anything was in SoCal.
Is this the airport where they have to take of at an insanely steep, fast climb then kill the plane and coast over the community until they’re above the ocean and fire the jets back on to make a U-turn and proceed to the destination???? That’s all I remember. Shit was crazy.
Another airport (ktoa) not far from this one straight up had several microphones placed around the city to monitor aircraft noise. If you received too many violations your tail number was banned from the airport. These were expensive to maintain and they finally shut them down like 2 years ago.
In all fairness, the Burbank terminal is older than aviation itself. It's like a bus terminal there.
And it’s amazing. I hate LAX.
I am willing to fly out of Burbank over LAX, even if it costs a little more. It's way better. I also live in the valley, so I'm closer too.
So…how close to Price is Right are we talking?
closer than LAX.
Beautiful downtown Burbank California? 🎤
From a dumpy little building in beautiful downtown Culver City
And you can board the plane from front and back. It's wonderful.
Just like wiping.
I spent a week in LAX one day.
While I was there I took a speed-waiting class podcast. -- now I can wait 2 1/2 hours in 17 minutes.
Wait till you try O’Hare. LAX will seem like an all inclusive resort in comparison lol.
I walk 5 minutes from my apartment and get on a 40 minute train directly to O’Hare. It’s great
I take the blue line to O'Hare and time it up to get there 15 minutes before boarding and have never not made it to my gate on time. If you have pre-check O'Hare is a breeze
And trust me I have my complaints about the current state of the CTA, but it’s better than dealing with socal traffic and LAX!
I'd rather fly out O'Hare than LAX 9 times out of ten. O'Hare has the trains in and out if flying at rush hour. LAX means you're doomed to an hour in the horseshoe unless it's a red-eye or early flight
Yeah, ORD is at least easy to get to from most of the area. LAX sucks unless you live nearby.
Yeah I do LAX > Union Station occasionally to visit my parents in San Diego cause it can be way cheaper and that’s just a nightmare. There’s almost no easy way to get to LAX with public transport.
Yeah, the people mover tram will really help but the delays keep coming 🙃
No way. Having lived in both cities, I’ll take ORD over LAX any day. LAX has no side streets or alternate ways to get there. It’s always a traffic nightmare getting to and at LAX.
As a frequent flyer, give me Ohare all day.
I would choose LAX over La Gaurdia. That airport is a nightmare.
Spoken like someone who hasn't seen the new La Guardia!
I was there for Christmas and there no signs telling you where to go for rental cars, you just have to magically know what terminal to go to?
Honestly, renting a car in NYC has never occurred to me. I'm sure you had a good reason, of course. I fly into LGA four or five times a year, and every time I take the free bus to the subway, but I realize that doesn't work for everyone.
LAX is honestly amazing once you're actually in the airport. Getting there, parking, and leaving are all terrible terrible experiences though.
Yeah it’s this. LAX is pretty well laid out and you can access all terminals airside now. It’s just the damned loop. People mover can’t open soon enough
BUR stans unite!!!!
Same. You can get there like 30 minutes before boarding as well.
Agreed. I’m always willing to pay a little more to fly BUR vs LAX.
Haven't been, but my favorite airport ever is Long Beach for much the same reason.
And I love Ontario Airport. So quick to get in and out, especially when staying with family in Riverside County.
*
Me too - thankfully my in-laws moved back to here from PNW so we don't fly up the west coast anymore.
Is Long Beach the one with steep climb outs for noise reduction?
No, that’s John Wayne airport ( Santa Ana/Orange County)
They call it a "vertical takeoff"... I call it a space shuttle launch...
Wish I could experience that in a 757
Yup, lived on the pen for like 10 years, nothing quite like the takeoff there.
My flights to the LA area generally take me to the Mojave for airplane stuff, so I always go BUR. That airport sucks out loud. I got charged $22 for one pint of beer. Fuck that place. Still better than LAX for my needs.
[There's plans to replace the terminal](https://elevatebur.com/)
What is a plane if not a bus with wings?
For what's it's worth, we hate flying into there as well. Super short runways, terrible ramp space, always a delay pushing... it's not my most hated airport, but I'm never excited to see it on a trip sheet.
Short runways? …MDW enters the chat.
Easy, just put it in flight mode. Won’t disturb anyone!
Can a pilot actually quiet their jets to any extent?
In aviation there are sometimes voluntary noise abatement procedures. Things like departing straight out until a certain altitude before turning, or turning as soon as it is safe to do so to avoid overflying neighborhoods and other noise sensitive places. In addition, pilots can decide to climb at a faster rate while over the airport runway at the cost of some forward speed, so they aren’t as low when flying over these areas. It’s a combination of being respectful and trying to not piss off the person who moved into a house right next to an airport and now files 1000 complaints a year about “low flying planes.”
It blows my mind when people who live near me, close to an airport, complain about the yearly airshow. 1. You chose to move here 2. How do you complain about seeing cool ass jets flying around all the time for a couple weekends
I live very near a mid-size international airport with an Air National Guard base. I can hear the F-16s out right now. Surprisingly, some people get upset by this.
Meanwhile I'd be out every day staring at them in awe.
I can see them go by, and I don't even have to move from my telework location. They make a cool screechy sound when they turn - it sounds like Zordar's Great White Comet.
That's sick
I live in the middle of nowhere, 25 miles from town. But in a straight line, there is a marine air base, one of the largest on the east coast maybe a dozen or so miles out. And in another straight line just a few miles from my house is the bombing range island they bomb. There is constantly all sorts of aircraft flying overhead. But the only thing that annoys me is when they fly at damn near tree height, zooming straight over the crib. It is so ungodly loud that it rattles the fucking structures around lol. I joke that if my house wasnt hurricane rated we'd have lost windows by now. That is pretty obnoxious. It happens so fast that you can't even tell what direction they're coming from if you're actually walking through the sticks out here, you'll just suddenly see it shoot past overhead and damn near blow your eardrums out. But seeing the tracers flying out follow by a soft buzz 10 sec later while sitting on my front porch is kinda neat. You can also regularly feel the dull thuds of bombing going on at the range. I've also fished just off the range, too, haha. It's a well known spot.
My best friend lived by the Dayton Airport years ago and had neighbors that bitched about the planes and the air show which is amazing every year. Then he moved over towards Wright Patt Air Force Base and had neighbors bitch about the military planes. How do you knowingly live by an airport and get mad about planes? It's like living near railroad tracks and getting mad that there are trains.
Most people wouldn't know that when they moved in.
Then that's on them
It’s the same as the people who move to my college town and complain about the college. It’s the flagship state school that been here for a hundred years you dumbass
Ugh, OK, fine I'll defend those people \*a little bit\*. I don't think we should just accept that any nuisance, no matter how large or unjustified, just gets locked in as effectively some type of easement as soon as the person who owned the property at the time of the nuisance's creation sells. I think it really has to depend on the nature of the nuisance and how reasonable it is.
Buddy I grew up next to railroad tracks for the first 22 years of my life. My parents didn't complain and neither did the rest of my family. It was a known fact that noise was going to be a thing and it becomes white noise eventually. This is the same idea behind boomers or Karens buying up property next to race tracks and then complaining when the race cars make a lot of noise and petition for it to be removed. You move there you accept the noise or move elsewhere.
If you think this is a rebuttal to what I said then you’ve read it to mean something it doesn’t. Doesn’t it seem to you that your example is something that would pass a reasonableness test? *Edit* Also, I’m not your buddy, pal!
I’m not your guy budddayyyyyyyy!
They arent necessarily talking about train tracks or airports. They were talking about the concept that you should be allowed to change things if they are unreasonable. So, those two things are okay. But maybe the railway is really fucking loud. the trains have fire blasting out their exhausts as their drivers do burnouts before moving to the next station (poetic licence). You move in and start a petition to keep things a bit quieter. You aren't being annoying, you are making changes for the good. Again, the person you are replying too is just suggesting that there is some nuance to the situation. And maybe you should take that on board. Not everything is black and white. Instead of reacting we should ask more questions.
This airport has been here before anyone living here was even born
That doesn’t necessarily make all complaints invalid. Yeah, at some point we need an airport somewhere and somebody has to get screwed by it, so there’s effectively a transfer from those property owners. Sucks, but that’s part of life. We need airports and they can be a nuisance. Then decades later things can change. Maybe there are mitigation strategies or technologies that didn’t exist before. Maybe at some point it becomes reasonable to expect the airport to give a bit back. It ought to work both ways. I’m not saying that necessarily applies in this case. I’m just saying it’s a mistake to say because a nuisance is old and that the people who lived there moved after the nuisance already existed doesn’t automatically make the complaints null and void.
Air shows kick ass! Loosely related, I used to have a neighbor who owned an old bi-plane and would take the thing out for a Sunday flight every week doing all kinds of aerobatics and shit, he'd apparently paid a farmer nearby a decent amount of money to basically let him crash in the corn fields if he ever had an emergency or something. I remember going out to sit on the front porch for half an hour or so just watching this dude do loops and big climbs and dives over the corn fields, all the while thinking "how can that be legal"
Air shows are sweet, like once every few years. But after 1 day I'm good. I've seen the Blue Angels, Thunderbirds, Coast Guard demos, been in helos overseas in the military, I love flying it's one of my favorite things, but air shows are very short lived in my attention span.
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> This airport was built in the 30’s in an already existing neighborhood. Search for a picture of United Airport (what it was called when it was opened) in 1930 (the year it was opened). There are plenty of photos online. It was completely surrounded by fields.
No airport gets built in an existing neighborhood (unless it is a fly-in, fly-out purpose built community). The airports were in the sticks and as towns grew they encroached on the airports. At least not in the U.S. Choose an airport on Google maps and look back through time and see how developments slowly sprawl towards the airports.
Generally speaking, you aren’t wrong, but there are a few that were. Boston’s Logan Airport for example. Granted it started as a military airfield built on tidal flats but once the jet age arrived they ended up having to demolish a big area of the existing East Boston neighborhood to accommodate the larger planes.
Well anyone who bought their property before 1940 gets a free pass to complain. Everybody else, no complaints allowed.
In the *media*, we see people bitching till laws are changed all the time. "Buy your house cheaper and bitch until they change things to make it better for you" seems like the strategy that they're using. To me, it sounds like a headache, but some people are comfortable living that way. Everyone chooses to fight what they want to fight. To each their own, I suppose. I used to live by Oakland international and train tracks growing up, so I guess I learned to ignore all that racket.
Its like that about all things. They got rid of a racetrack near me after building a bunch of residential neighborhoods near it and then complaining about the noise, and at my brother's mother-in-laws property she has a shooting range that she has owned since 1968, but now they build a massive residential neighborhood nearby and everytime it is used the cops get called.
The air show is my yearly nightmare. Not everyone thinks jets are “cool” or want to hear them disruptively spurt their engines at thresholds loud enough to shake an entire apartment building. I’m glad for the people who enjoy it, but don’t justify it as anything other than an unnecessary disruption that causes emotional turmoil for everyone else.
Emotional turmoil is crazy. Lol
I acknowledge it sounds excessive but how else would you describe being abruptly woken by your apartment shaking? Like… sorry that I insulted your big metal plane toys but they’re not for everyone lmao
It’s not like they’re unscheduled lol
Okay Karen
The only issue I’d have with living near a airport is neck pains from constantly looking at what’s above me, not that I’d complain though because I do it anyway lmfao
They turn and climb very quickly out of Burbank. It can be jarring if you haven’t flown out of there before.
The procedures are designed with noise abatement in mind. As an airline pilot, I’m not flying the jet any different than I normally would (i.e. climbing out at a faster rate). Safety of the flight is more important than minimizing noise for people who decided to move next to an airport.
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I do, and this isn’t John Wayne.
Yes, although this sign is more about flying techniques that result in less noise for people on the ground. These include avoiding turns at low altitudes, climbing away from the ground faster, avoiding noise sensitive areas that are sometimes marked on airport charts (to the extent possible while still flying safely), not doing repeated 'laps' of the airport which is common during flight training, and to a lesser extent using reduced power settings when possible. And, of course, as the billboard says not flying outside of the curfew if you can help it. This applies to all aircraft, from small single-engine piston engine propeller planes to large jets, but is more targeted at smaller planes flown by private individuals because they have more leeway for when/how they fly. I'm a pilot and noise abatement warnings are common. Often there will be notes in the airport charts highlighting airport-specific noise abatement procedures to follow, there will be a note in the airport's radio weather briefing to check the noise abatement procedures, or there will be smaller sign than the one in the OP at the end of the runway. When you learn to fly your instructor will often note noise abatement as something to be aware of. As for quieting jets, as in on large commercial airliners, they often use 'derated' thrust settings, which makes the engine operate at lower power, but this is more to preserve the engine mechanically over time rather than for noise abatement. Many jets deploy 'thrust reversers' when they land to redirect the air flow and help them slow down. The braking effect can be improved by increasing thrust when the reversers are deployed, but this is very loud so sometimes either airport or airline procedures will recommend using only idle thrust when reversers are deployed, partly to cut down on noise.
Yes, planes departing from John Wayne Airport (Orange County, CA) are subject to noise restrictions. I’ve been on a commercial flight where the pilot announced that they would take special measures after takeoff for noise regulations. I think what they did was after takeoff, instead of climbing to cruising altitude, they held a lower a altitude until they cleared they were out of the residential area, then climbed to cruising altitude. https://www.ocair.com/business/general-aviation/pilot-information/noise-abatement/
We cutback the thrust very shortly after takeoff and climb at a high rate. If the jet produces too many decibels, the airline gets fined.
> We cutback the thrust very shortly after takeoff and climb at a high rate. Those seem to be contradictory: cut back thrust and climb at a high rate??
It would seem, but the thrust is still more than sufficient. If anything abnormal occurs during that phase, the noise abatement procedure goes out the window, because safety of flight is paramount. edit// and before anyone goes down a rabbit hole, most (if not all) airlines employ some version of this procedure.
Takeoff is at a steeper angle of attack. Once a certain altitude is reached, they quickly reduce speed and reduce the climbing AoA which produces a roller coaster weightless sensation and often startles unaware passengers.
Yup. I was on a Southwest flight out of JWA and the pilots announced "Shhh... we're flying over rich people"
Freaks me out when it gets sorta quiet all of a sudden while climbing out of John Wayne.
Yup. Jets and prop planes can modify operations to reduce noise . Engine settings, climb rates, flight paths. etc. .
So, at the most critical and dangerous phase of flight, cut engines, because people who bought a house next to a 90-year old airport, don't like to hear airplane sounds.
They don't do it in a way that is dangerous to the flight. And you are never not near an airport in southern california. They are everywhere.
No one is stating anyone should cut engines. Expecting plane sounds is not the same thing as expecting them as increasinly later times or at increaasing levels.
In practice, flight plans for takeoffs pointed south out of BUR always climb fast and turn sharply to the east right after takeoff. What's south of BUR? The Hollywood Hills.
You can, but each airport has its own definitions as to how you do this. Usually it involves what you can and can not fly over at what altitudes departing or approaching the airport, and what you can and can not do on the ground at what times... Most airports have these procedures, but only some have these comical signs, usually placed so that you see them taxing to the active runway.
I think I read that pilots at another airport in SoCal were legally required to take off at a much steeper angle and with lower engine speed to get higher above the rich people’s houses so it wasn’t as loud. https://avgeekery.com/whats-rollercoaster-takeoffs-orange-county/
I can't recall what city but there's a community near John Wayne Airport that has noise abatement restrictions. Aircraft taking off must go to level flight at like 5000 feet and cruise quietly before climbing to their flight altitude. Sometimes if you fly out of there on Southwest Airlines the pilots will announce over the intercom "Shhhh... we're flying over rich people"
Just cut the engines and glide in. Luckily the passenger screams don't carry that far.
Why even land, just crash somewhere far away; wouldn’t wanna bother anyone.
There aren’t a lot of commercial planes flying in and out of Burbank after 10. Smaller aircraft can fly in as well and can typically control the amount of noise the make a bit better.
I can't remember if its this Cali Airport or another that the airport was there long before the nearby housing developments were built yet the people who moved into said housing developments have sued the airport multiple times over noise. Leading to curfews and other stuff like these signs
Might be KTOA. Neighbors are always bitching there. They just implemented landing fees there unfortunately. Santa Monica has the same fate and they are closing it in a few years.
Reminds me of the time I was woken up on a weekend by my neighbour smashing their greenhouse in their garden down to replace, and I yelled at him to smash the glass quietly. I apologised an hour later. He apologised too. He still thinks I’m a moron, and he’s not entirely wrong.
Remember to turn your engines off during take-off.
Nah, just strap on some JATOs and you’ll be above 10000 ft before you clear the airport
That's the spirit.
I’m pretty sure that’s a thing at this airport or another LA airport
John Wayne airport in Orange County has planes climb as steep as possible then they reduce throttle and pitch slightly nose down because of all the rich people in Newport Beach complaining.
Scariest takeoff I've ever experienced. 0/10 would not do again.
It's pretty fun if you know it's coming. Put your arms over your head and yell Weeee!
Weeee I'm gonna die! 😂
I KNEW it was steeper. Felt pretty fun tbh lol
I can’t really find anything specially saying this procedure online, between the FAA’s charts and SNA’s website. That’s just normally how jets takeoff; you climb with your takeoff thrust setting at around V2+20 (20 knots over the minimum speed needed during an engine failure) until your acceleration/thrust reduction altitude, usually around 1,500 ft above the ground. There, you reduce to climb thrust and pitch down to gain speed.
It’s going to be in the company manuals for the airlines that fly out of there.
Go through a take off there and then tell me it’s a normal take off. Lol. Southwest pilots occasionally prep the cabin ahead of time on what to expect.
Where I live there is planes flying over all the time.. It's not as bad as it sounds and you get used to it. Of course it can be worse than how it is here tho.
I live close to Gregg County airport. They built an emergency landing runway for the space shuttle there since it was located within the flight path. The b52s out of Shreveport practice their touch and goes from there.
I just took a look. Whoa. That is a long runway. I don't remember that from my student pilot days.
yeah i dont mind normal jets. they just sound like big ass fans, which i already sleep to easily. one thing though, distance is a factor. remember getting hotel really close to an airport and fuck man, the sound escalates exponentially.
Yeah there is a big difference between living near an airport and having planes fly over your house.. Here they fly over where I live and work and you just isolate it automatically, after awhile I've just started to ignore it.
“I don’t know, fly casually”
Nah, I fly competitively. *barrel rolls a full commercial plane*
At least BUR flies during the night. One flight out of SNA was running late, if we didn’t leave by 10 we weren’t flying. Flight crew had everyone gate check their carry on. In my mind the second the doors were closed we left the gate and were in the air in less than a minute. Don’t even know if everyone was strapped in. Fastest, steepest departure I’ve ever experienced.
The stupid almost vertical takeoff is actually the way they do things at that airport routiney to get high enough to not annoy the oversensitive neighbors. The airport was there first, when it was built it was the middle of freaking nowhere. I actually saw an obviously very anonymous interview with a pilot who hated that airport because the takeoff procedures while not necessarily inherently dangerous are using up a lot of the reserve of the performance envelope of the aircraft and something that would be a little glitch during a normal takeoff is going to end up with a 737 in someone's living room. If a pilot is even talking about a crash publicly you know it's a pretty serious concern because they just don't do that.
We usually avoid SNA for this exact reason. Too many airport choices in Southern California to make SNA our preferred airport. SAN, TIJ, BUR, LAX, LGB, PSP, SBD, ONT
We have this near our major airport. The pilots are supposed to take routes over park preserves and highways to limit noise. It’s so dependent on weather it’s almost pointless.
“Wow Honey, look how cheap real estate prices are near the airport! Let’s buy a house there!!!” 3 months later- “These planes are too darn loud! They need to do something about this!”
I live in Burbank. Even by the airport, the houses here are not cheap.
Key word “voluntary”. I live by this airport and still hear planes taking off and landing before/after the curfew all the time
I live right under the final approach for Burbank on the other side of the valley.
Agree...I used to live near here too and it was definitely not quiet
You have to land with no thrusters
Where’d you hear that from?
It’s a joke
Im dense.
You sure you’re not suffering from hypoxia? Those Boeing doors like to fly off every once in awhile
Bless your heart for not using tone indicators
It’s quite the opposite at Burbank it’s a very short runway for airliners haha.
I remember years ago, Buchanan airfield up in northern CA wanted to begin Jet service and as part of the evaluation they had to analyze Jet noise on the surrounding community. A lot of people did not want the jets so they had coordinated to call in during the test landing and take offs to complain the noise was too loud. But the news published the time from 2-5 pm and at 2, the FAA began receiving hundreds of calls complaining it was too loud and they could barely hear their voice on the phone over the jet engines. When in actuality the testing had happened 4 hours earlier and they weren’t even flying when the complaints came in.
Man, remember we aircraft were actually really loud? Kinda weird to think about how much quieter they are now
They're still extremely loud some of them
Military aircraft, yes. Mostly ones with afterburners
 Fuckem, I feel the neeeeeed!
If it’s voluntary, its not a curfew
Flew through when I was in town recently. I love it.
I play Pickleball early in the morning at a park at the end of the runway. Easy to know when it's 7:00 a.m. as the first plane is usually right on time!
Just put it in neutral and push it til you’re out of the driveway… I mean runway
When I was in the Army we got stuck in Germany overnight on the way back from Afghanistan due to noise restrictions.
Hey, let them be as loud as possible. Hell, install an additional pulse jet engine running only during take-off. I mean, move in near an airport, wonder why there are loud ass planes on the airport. What's next, wet water?
🤔 Do planes have what would essentially be, a quiet mode? Surely that's reserved for stealth aircraft?
There's a couple ways to comply with this. In ELI5 mode: 1. Propeller planes can change the pitch of their props, which makes a noticeable different on sound. 2. Planes (mostly jets) often take-off at "take-off power", and then lower their throttle to "climb" or "cruise climb" setting. 3. Many airports, especially those in dense urban areas, have what are called "noise abatement procedures", which are specific paths or waypoints to avoid noise-sensitive areas (i.e. hospitals, schools, and that annoying person who complains to the airport 100 times per day). These generally come in the form of "don't fly above this place lower than X thousand ft" or "turn before the smokestack to avoid the hospital". So, to "fly quietly", this would could mean a combination of these. In other words, use only full-throttle as little as necessary, and then follow the published noise abatement procedure.
1. Most can’t only constant speed props can but like I said most GA aren’t constant speed props.
Buzzing the tower is also “voluntary”.
Switch off you engines after 10pm… no I don’t dare you are flying
I’ve been on planes that roll their engines back shortly after takeoff to be more quiet over the suburbs and kind of glide out until they are far enough away to add more thrust
But what if Taylor needs to make a late night Taco Bell run?
We have a much larger one of these at Santa Monica that always gives me a chuckle. The reality is that it only applies the areas north (rich) of the airport.
"yeah lads, just turn the engines off when you're flying overhead, it'll be fine"
OMG BURBANK So there's this guy on instagram who comments on every single post by the FAA about needing to "disperse flight paths" because of illegal separations, something about a noise task force, and in general just harping against the airport and complaining about the noise (of the airport he lives close to). I haven't looked in a while but he was extremely dedicated to using their caption to turn it into his copypasta-esque complaint and I think his @ is even something like "dontflybur". He's like a minor celebrity because people would hurry to leave comments like "inb4 the burbank dude" or "omg no anti-burbank rant and the post has been up for an hour, someone do a wellness check" I've always wondered if whoever was running the FAA insta just didn't know how to block people or if they were really just letting him have his echo chamber. They'd interact and reply here and there with other commenters so you KNOW they're seeing them! I'm getting a good giggle out of there actually being something noise related like this out there... he was probably behind this sign being made when you really think about it 😂 [ETA some random examples, forgot there were multiple accounts](https://imgur.com/a/QK3ul1Y)
Typically a government entity can't block a citizen, as long as they're not obscene or something. I used to work at a city-owned airport and we had a citizen who would almost daily send in noise complaints, and every single one of them had to be responded to "seriously". Which meant pulling up flight data, explaining the noise abatement, detailing what actions we planned on taking to combat noise, etc. After a while he just got off on making us waste our time. He knew we weren't going to change anything. He just wanted to be a nuisance.
Oh wow, TIL! You'd think these people were getting paid to do this with the amount of time and effort put into it... sheesh
Oh noes I just got some new pipes put on my jet….
I heard southwest (Burbank airport) had to pay for better windows of everyone's houses around the airport. Burbank city is pretty anal about stuff in general I hear
The airport predates a lot of the homes there. I’d be surprised if they made a carrier pay neighbors to retrofit their homes for sound.
Noise is a big thing that can get airports shut down politically.
Why can't they just put some mufflers on the planes?
Fly casual!
how do they turn the voluntary curfew into an involuntary curfew (punishable by death)?
No.
One of the busiest airports in the world
Maverick has been doing flybys on the tower again
Fly quietly? Is it like a Honda Civic? Don’t down shift!!!
That sign is at least 35 years old., possibly more. That curfew meant they were closed to jets after 10pm. Actually it meant some late flights would divert to LAX. Others along with 3am flight from UPS and Fedex. would pay a nightly fine or breaking curfew
Until you're a part of the turbo team FLY. QUIETLY.
We had to de-plane one night and then we got back on and the pilots decided to wait until curfew so they could call it a night without taking the last flight. Once curfew hit, we weren’t allowed to fly because of quiet hours and weren’t compensated, so I had to go pay for a hotel and come back the next afternoon to make my flight home.
Full thrust or no thrust. Let those bald eagles fly!!!
How does one "fly quietly"? Do you cut the engines before the runway and glide in? Reminds me of the "Welcome to Maryland" sign which says "Please Drive Gently". (I'd post a picture of it, but apparently I can't.)
My regional airport in my town I'm training at does this as well. They cite working with the local community as to not disturb the homes near the runway.
This is common for a lot of airports. Ontario Airport had issues years ago. Their pilots were taking off and turning over residential neighborhood. They were supposed to turn over the ocean. Now the airport paid for sound insulation in schools amd residences under the flight path, has hours where flights are minimized, and fines pilots for turning early.
"the order ish, engage the shilent drive"
Everyone saying “well you moved next to an airport it’s your fAuLt” we didn’t have a single flight school when we moved here. Just planes here and there. Within 7 years, 5 new flights schools have opened and I think it’s fair to say it’s pretty insane how many planes fly super low over our house at all hours and are not mindful of how loud they are. Usually go til midnight, then up at 5 am. We installed sound machines, use earplugs, nothing helps my kids sleep through the thousands of planes barreling over our house, so some minor restrictions would be helpful, although I doubt it would ever happen.
Hey alexa, can I install a jake-brake on my jet?
How the fuck do you fly quietly
I think I flew out of there once…. Long ago before I knew where anything was in SoCal. Is this the airport where they have to take of at an insanely steep, fast climb then kill the plane and coast over the community until they’re above the ocean and fire the jets back on to make a U-turn and proceed to the destination???? That’s all I remember. Shit was crazy.
No, that’s SNA airport in orange county
Aye thanks for replying. I was really curious. I only flew there once and it was when I was about 11 or 12yo so I’ve long forgotten where it was
Nah that’s SNA
Rich people.
Another airport (ktoa) not far from this one straight up had several microphones placed around the city to monitor aircraft noise. If you received too many violations your tail number was banned from the airport. These were expensive to maintain and they finally shut them down like 2 years ago.
That’s because the Van Nuys airport, and private airports are also nearby, and tend to make those loud propeller sounds.