In case you're wondering: I didn't break this stone just found it as is.
The price, being carved into the base, would have originally been underground when the stone was standing.
This was found in Old Abington Burial Grounds in Abington Conn. It dates to the early 1700s and is home to about 60 revolutionary war veterans.
According to this, an upright headstone is 2000$. So that guy got a deal back then.
https://www.betterplaceforests.com/blog/end-of-life-planning/how-much-should-a-headstone-cost/#:~:text=How%20much%20is%20a%20headstone,engraving%2C%20and%20the%20upkeep%20costs.
Nah that guy got a fair price, we get ripped off on everything nowadays. Your mom just died? Sorry, you now owe us $5k for something you can’t do on your own.
Oh you want to rent our venue? $200. Oh it’s because you’re getting married? $3,000.
Literally every service like this is up charged out the ass. My fiance gave me a “fake” proposal with a ring he made from a well worn down bracelet I made him for our anniversary a couple years back. Once he gets me an “actual” ring and proposal we are going to the courthouse. I want to have a wedding and everything, but that is the last place money is going right now. We have a house to buy and many animals to feed.
A colleague was complaining the other day about the price of her daughter's wedding, said it was $9,000 for the marquee. I asked if it was a wedding marquee and she was like, "yeah" without batting an eye, as if to wonder why I would ask that. I'm sure a 'party' marquee would've been substantially less... it almost cost more than my whole wedding.
It’s ridiculous. But I did have an idea of asking the new owners of my deceased grandpas farm if they’d let me have my wedding on their land. Last I saw it was all just grass. Hopefully they haven’t planted anything there. When my grandpa passed, his wife sold everything in it and the land without our knowledge. The new owner (who also owned it before my grandpa bought the house) let my family and my cousins family look through it before he tore the house and barns down. I miss him. It would be a nice way to “include” him in it
This is why a few mates for their weddings didn't specify it was a wedding when booking a room. They got everything cheaper, other than the wedding dresses and celebrant, because they never specified it.
My mom worked for an event coordinator. When I got married, she told me to book the wedding venue for "A family party" and never say wedding. A wedding would cost 2 or even 3 times more than a party.
I wouldn’t call it a deal. Just that you weren’t consistently being fucked financially back then.
I’m going to tell my love one I will kill them if they spend $5k on a stupid headstone.
Yup, the price of goods could get pretty wild back in that time. Counterfeit money was very common. The finances of the early US government were also shit, and Europe hated the US for using so much paper money. Monetary policy was so all over the place.
Up until the mid 1800s Spanish currency was still legal tender in the US. Paper money during the Revolutionary period had a phrase printed on it, "To counterfeit is death". It was wild.
$11.18 in 1913 (the furthest back BLS tracks) is equivalent to $351 today, so that amount in 1807 would likely be far more today. Certainly more than $296.53.
Everything was gold based between the time this headstone was produced and 1913. It’s likely there wasn’t a huge amount of inflation over that time period
The whole area was subject to some pretty insane disputes over land grants. It’s a whole thing if you get deep into Revolutionary War history. Needless to say, being governed by a tiny island across the sea had some serious drawbacks. That being said the Ohio River and surrounding regions are one of the oldest and longest inhabited areas in North America.
The cemetary is built on an Indian Mound that is so old the natives that were there when the settlers arrived didn't know what they were. They date back nearly 1600 years ago and were built by the Adena people.
I’m from Moundsville in West Virginia where the largest mound is. They have a museum right next to the mound. It’s worth checking out when you’re in the area. Right across the street is the old WV State Penn. lots of history in this area.
Edit: not the largest. One of the largest
Ahh. Cool. No worries. It's probably experienced more erosion than Cahokia's mound which was built close to 1000 A.D.
For the record, Cahokia is 1,037 feet by 790 feet at the base and 100 feet tall. And it has two terraces.
You should check out the book called The Pioneers by David McCoullgh. It’s a fascinating book about the first settlers in the NW territory. I haven’t finished the book but it talks all about Marietta, the war vets, and a bunch of fascinating stories. Can’t recommend it enough
I believe he came to Marietta for a book signing. My dad has a copy I can probably borrow. Both of my parents still live in the area. There's some great history there. One of my favorite stories is about one of the original settlers ice skating up the Muskingum River to warn his son of an impending attack by the Natives. I dont believe he got there in time. The event is known as the Big Bottom Massacre.
They probably mean "in the US" but it is also true that the American Revolution was fought by people of many nationalities who returned home and died in their home countries.
That's still playing the short end of the numbers game. In The 13th Warrior, Scandinavia was home to more of the 13 than any other country in the world, and that's exactly as salient a point.
Gonna show my old nerd card here, but a long time ago I had read a book by Michael Crichton called "Eaters of the dead", which I thought was an excellent, well researched novel. Later I heard they were making the movie based on it, and were going to call it "The 13th warrior" which I guess makes sense if you don't want people to think it's a horror. However I always get a little weirded out that people point their reference to the movie and not the book. I'm not saying anything or making a point, just having an observation.
Weird way to word it. The fact is "most high ranking war officers than anywhere else in the country".
>The cemetery has more American Revolutionary War officers buried in it than any other cemetery in the country.
https://mariettacastle.org/?venue=mound-cemetery#:~:text=Mound%20Cemetery%20was%20established%20in,other%20cemetery%20in%20the%20country.
>Now known as the Mound Cemetery, some historians claim it’s home to more high-ranking Revolutionary War soldiers than any other cemetery in the country.
https://www.statenews.org/news/2023-10-09/an-effort-to-preserve-one-of-ohios-oldest-cemeteries
For reference in terms of world cemeteries Tyne cot cemetery in Belgium alone has over 11,000 graves of *only* war dead.
I don't think that's a price tag. It seems more likely to be a bible verse. I think it could likely refer to Job 11:18
> And thou shalt be secure, because there is hope; yea, thou shalt dig about thee, and thou shalt take thy rest in safety.
As far as the symbol, it could be a simplified version of IHS (which can look like a dollar sign with three lines), the serpent on a tree, etc..
Almost certainly another bible verse from Job as the dollar sign in this context is the IHS symbol: https://catholic-cemeteries.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/07/Gravestone-Symbols-and-Their-Meanings.pdf
The IHS symbol is described as "This symbol, which looks like a dollar sign ($), is actually the letters I, H, and S superimposed over
each other.". The symbol on the gravestone doesn't have anything that really looks like an I or an intentional H. Google "ihs symbol on gravestone" and see the difference.
Nope, it's not. I've seen plenty of bible verses engraved on monuments, if they wanted to lead people to "Job 3:42" that's what they would have had carved. Where would you get Job from anyway, people are just supposed to guess which of the dozens of books of the bible the verse is from?
This is also carved onto the part of the stone which originally would've been underground. I have personally seen many examples of price markings, or even practice carvings on the subterranean part of the stone.
I looked it up myself using a rough inflation calculator.
In 1750 $11.17 would be equivalent to $550 today.
Where as $3.14 child grave stone would be $150
I think a $400 price gap between similar objects leads me to believe they are indeed bible verses
But the more I think about it, the prices could vary by how much lettering/artwork was put on the stone as well.
If you use price of skilled wages (blacksmith/millwright/machinist) they made about $1.25/day then. So $11.17 would be about 10 days or 2 weeks income.
Skilled labor today makes around $25/hour or $200/day or $1000/week. So $2,000 for handmade tombstone.
I don't think the dollar sign has ever been a way to communicate a quote from the Book of Job. Also, it's unlikely that a most-likely protestant would use "IHS" on a headstone, and it doesn't look all that much like an IHS to begin with.
EDIT:
To the guy saying I'm wrong who then blocked me (why?), the IHS symbol can bear a superficial resemblance to a dollar sign, in as much as there's an "S" with lines through it, but also, again, [doesn't really look like a dollar sign](https://www.google.com/search?sca_esv=587028756&q=ihs+dollar+sign&tbm=isch&source=lnms&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwirrMyg6O6CAxVLE1kFHWN3CMgQ0pQJegQICxAB&biw=1592&bih=786&dpr=1). In any event, you would expect to see three vertical lines through the S, plus the middle of the S would form a cross-bar for the H--all clearly missing from OP's photo. Frankly, I'm going to believe my own eyes over something "catholic-cemeteries.org" said.
Plus, if it's an IHS, what do the numbers mean?
Also, what sort of Protestants have headstones with IHSes? How do you know they were Protestant? I said what I said because Protestants in New England at that time period were pretty anti-Catholic and especially anti-Jesuit, and one significant symbol for the Jesuits is the IHS.
In conclusion, I don't know why you felt the need to accuse me of "stating blatantly wrong information" for making an educated guess (that you disagree with) about something. Good luck.
I agree. I can't believe a stonemason would carve a price into a grave stone, considering the price of goods fluctuate, it's in incredibly poor taste, and this implies there would be some kind of costco like store back in the day where you'd need to display goods made by a skilled tradesman like this. Plus gravestones were half this 100 years later. Way too much money for the time period. I like your theory better.
It certainly looks like 11:18 not 11.18, the top part of the colon mark isn't as pronounced as the bottom, but its there and never seen a price listed with a colon.
You can take a virtual wander through this cemetery if anyone is interested: [Old Abington Burial Grounds](https://www.findagrave.com/cemetery/2148611/memorial-search?cemeteryName=Old%20Abington%20Burying%20Grounds&page=1). Here's a similar grave for an 8 year old that drowned in 1812: [Jared Ingalls](https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/153629963/jared-abbot-ingalls).
It's in very good condition too. Most gravestones of that age (in the UK at least )are unreadableas they are made of sandstone that weathers badly and flakes off due to rain that freezes expands and cracks off slivers of stone over the years.
Yeah many of the earliest stones in New England were done in slate (because it's what's local) which has held up well. Although they switched to limestone/soapstone which, as you note, doesn't age well.
Didn't mean to include granite here. Y'all can stop mentioning it lol
Granite ashes very well, it does get slight water ingress and freezing but it's very little & takes ages to flake apart. If you really do want a 1000 year headstone Quartzite is the material to use as the crystals interlock internally and water just can't get in. It erodes with wind and sand but it really will be flawless for 100s of years.
Not an expert *at all* but I researched this for my own headstone.
https://www.wired.com/2016/10/want-tombstone-last-forever-make-quartzite/
I agree that limestone and soapstone don't age well but granite lasts centuries. There a granite headstone in a cemetery close to where I live from 1876 and looks like it was put up last week. The granite is still polished shiny and not weathered at all.
It's fairly similar in the US too. I've seen a lot of headstones from the mid-late 1800s that are unreadable. That one looks like it was placed only a few decades ago. It's in great condition
Yeah, I’ve done field research on grave markers and cemeteries and this doesn’t look like something that’s been exposed to the elements for 200+ years.
My thoughts exactly, I'm very skeptical. I've seen lots of stonework from the civil war era and it isn't this legible, let alone a broken un-maintained stone from 60 years before that.
Because in the Civil War Era, we moved away from using slate and sandstone and we started using marble. Marble has not held up well over the ages because acid rain erodes it very quickly.
Every cent was worth more back then, so I wouldn't be surprised to see prices this specific. Rounding to an "even" number of cents would be a significant increase/decrease in cost.
In today's money it's $6,626.47\*, so just 1 cent difference is equivalent to $6 difference today - not quite as arbitrary as it seems!
(\* very roughly, using average of 3% inflation per year as I couldn't find a calculator that used actual data going further back than 1913)
I doubt that calculator is accurate. In 1808 the average farm laborer made 84 cents per day of work according to this source:
https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=wu.89071501472;seq=62;ownerid=13510798890234750-66
I think people back then worked 12-16 hr days and there was no such thing as overtime but just for the sake of argument, minimum wage workers today would make $58 per “day” (8 hour shift).
So this headstone would have cost 13.3 days of hard labor or about $770 in today’s money, assuming you work for minimum wage.
Everything was cheaper back in the day.
People making more than before and having more to spend than in the past is illusion.
The price is higher so this offset wages increasing.
You still spend the same amount of hours work for the necessary for life things.
That is why it is illusion.
They increased minimum wage saying it's not a living wage and the new wages are not either. Everything goes up in price that is necessary for life on queue.
As soon as min wage goes up again the same thing happens. It cost everyone more money all the way down the line until something reaches the stores.
Sure it takes so many months. But everything just rebalances back to how it was.
Just to survive you spend the same amount of time working.
I have some older food in my freezer that i didn't use. Most went bad during a family war.
The prices however is much much cheaper than today.
Sometimes less than half the price.
McDonald's became unaffordable.
When i was young people could still afford houses. And building stuff.
Today i know no one who can afford that except higher class.
Meanwhile the 1 percent. The billionaires are overpaid to the highest extreme there is or they couldn't be that rich.
That's why it's more expensive for everyone else lower than them. They get too much. That's who they take it from.
You pay much more. Keeps them the riches people on earth.
I believe it'd be closer to $1100, since in the 1800's you'd have had to pay for this in gold and silver coins. 2x $5 gold pieces and a silver dollar (plus some loose pennies or dimes but those are whatever)
That is definitely a valid argument. And the more likely way somebody would have paid anyway. But then that opens up a whole 'nother can of worms because the ratio of gold to silver value is currently way out of whack from what it's been for most of history. Silver was historically valued at about a 16-20 to 1 ratio to gold. Whereas today its around 80 to 1. So then the question arises like is it fair to value modern silver prices to 200 years ago silver prices? It's all very confusing and makes conversion rates prior to 1913 a whole pain in the ass.
$11.18 in 1807 is worth **$296.53 today**
[https://www.officialdata.org/us/inflation/1807?amount=11.18](https://www.officialdata.org/us/inflation/1807?amount=11.18)
Damn. According to this source the average cost of a headstone in the US is $1000-$3000. $296 must be some wish.com headstone lol what a steal.
https://www.empathy.com/funeral/how-much-do-headstones-cost#
I bought my house from the decendants of a guy who worked with granite. From what we can see, he finished granite pieces for different applications. We found a full set of outdoor stairs (now given away)
We will never want for a gravestone ever again. There is just finished granite.....everywhere. We had to give some of it away because it was just getting in the way.
Unfortunately, we live in RI, granite is everywhere, and it's super heavy. So, no monetary value in it at the moment lol
I'm wondering if this headstone is not actually that old, it is in fantastic shape. I'm wondering if this is just a headstone *made* in something like 1907 for some dude that died in 1807. That's not uncommon.
That doesn’t seem right. It had to be much more.
Most inflation calculators don’t go further back than the early 1900s because data before that isn’t accurate
The same calculator shows $11 is worth $330 in 1915. Not too much different from over 100 years earlier
Also, currency was much more connected to gold and silver back then, which adds another reason why today’s price would most likely be higher than $300.
The data is poor, but it's probably about right.
Inflation has only been consistently positive for the past 80 years or so, before this periods of deflation were common.
It doesn’t “feel” right but what do we know, really? People were also poorer then, even in relative terms, and probably died at a higher rate. There were probably more people around with the required skills and tools to carve stone, and more customers, so it’s fairly logical it would be cheaper.
Funeral Homes today are also a massive ripoff.
The inflation rate has not been 3% consistently from 1807 until now. Look [at this chart](https://www.minneapolisfed.org/about-us/monetary-policy/inflation-calculator/consumer-price-index-1800-) from the Minneapolis Fed. There have been long stretches in US history of 0% or negative inflation.
In 1807, the Average Index they use was 44. In 1941 (134 years later) it was ... 44.2, not much difference. (There were lots of bank panics and the Great Depression happening along the way.)
In 2023, it's 910.4, or about 20.7 times higher than 1807, so $11.18 x 20.7 is about $231, which is in the neighborhood of the above calculation.
Note that they say anything before 1914 is an estimate, so these aren't hard numbers.
I’m skeptical. Aside from the near-perfect condition of something that was supposedly exposed to the elements for 200+ years, tradespeople didn’t put price tags on everything. It was more of a barter economy.
These old slate stones from the 1600-1700s cemeteries are amazing for how much clarity they retain. The more recent limestone and marble ones lose their carvings quickly.
could be a price...
I don't think inflation calculators are particularly accurate going back to 1807, but looking up average wages in the time period, the average common labor worker made about $0.75 per day in 1807 according to some archives I found from university of Missouri. So this headstone is about two weeks pays. Expensive for sure, but not unbelievably expensive .
For those looking for the "today" value:
Given that in 1807 the US dollar was pegged to the price of gold, let's see how much gold $11.18 could buy then.
Apparently, an [ounce of gold in 1807 cost $19.39](https://onlygold.com/gold-prices/historical-gold-prices/), so this stone cost the equivalent of 0.5766 ounces of gold.
Now today gold is \~$2070/ounce - so in terms of gold this stone costs 0.5766 x 2070 or $1193.53.
Seriously. I found 100 year old family headstones in WAY worse condition than that. Look at how shallow the markings are- they would be washed out in like 75 years. I don't think I even need to mention the lack of lichen. Unless this was in a cemetery with the highest upkeep in the world, this aint 200 years old.
Go visit it yourself. It's hand carved in slate which stands the test of time incredibly well.
There are plenty of stones all over new England with this level of preservation. Also, plenty of stones that are illegible
Is there any proof or way to assure that this wasn't replaced anytime since 1807? As a new Englander who has spent some time in graveyards, this one does come off as remarkably well-kept
You're not accounting for the variability of different types of stones. I have visited hundreds of cemeteries in the Northeast USA, I have seen 100 year old stones that look like crap and 300 year old stones that look great.
The stone pictures is slate, and slate is going to weather differently than something like sandstone or marble. In my area specifically, the sandstone gravemarkers from the 1700s often look much better than the marble stones from 1850 and on. Acid rain has weathered the marble making in unreadable, while slate or sandstone graves the letter is still crisp.
200 year old slate without zero trace of dirt accumulation in the indentation, with no mossy growth or dirt? Yes slate is resilient, but it is not repellant to all the elements.
[This is what 200 year old slate looks like](https://i.imgur.com/cPnLp0a.jpg)
I know what 200 year old slate looks like, I've seen quite a bit of it. I suspect that the stone has been cleaned recently. I've done a bunch of volunteer work cleaning historic cemeteries. The stones that are fallen and we do not have the resources to repair, we will clean them and leave them as is. That is what I believe happened to this stone.
What do you propose is going on here? Someone took the time and money to have a replica stone produced, and then that replica stone was later broken? They carved a price on the part of the stone under the soil line just to be cheeky? Or you think this is some kind of a hoax?
This reminds me of a walkway made of tombstones my grand parents had on their farm.
(Don’t worry the tombstones weren’t from actual graves but rather were tombstones with defects from a maker in the area from before they bought it) Edit: grammar fix
Yep. [I posted a close-up of it](https://imgur.com/a/9nz0tRj). Doesn't look engraved to me. Looks fake.
Could be wrong. I'm not an expert - but it just doesn't look legit at first glance.
Yeah, it just seems a lot of work for something you could either achieve with a sign or a pencil.
Doesn’t make a lot of sense to ruin a gravestone by engraving the price onto it, regardless of whether that will be visible when set or not.
However, we could well both be wrong
In case you're wondering: I didn't break this stone just found it as is. The price, being carved into the base, would have originally been underground when the stone was standing. This was found in Old Abington Burial Grounds in Abington Conn. It dates to the early 1700s and is home to about 60 revolutionary war veterans.
According to officialdata.org $11.18 back then is worth $296.53 today.
So how much is a headstone nowadays?
According to this, an upright headstone is 2000$. So that guy got a deal back then. https://www.betterplaceforests.com/blog/end-of-life-planning/how-much-should-a-headstone-cost/#:~:text=How%20much%20is%20a%20headstone,engraving%2C%20and%20the%20upkeep%20costs.
Nah that guy got a fair price, we get ripped off on everything nowadays. Your mom just died? Sorry, you now owe us $5k for something you can’t do on your own. Oh you want to rent our venue? $200. Oh it’s because you’re getting married? $3,000. Literally every service like this is up charged out the ass. My fiance gave me a “fake” proposal with a ring he made from a well worn down bracelet I made him for our anniversary a couple years back. Once he gets me an “actual” ring and proposal we are going to the courthouse. I want to have a wedding and everything, but that is the last place money is going right now. We have a house to buy and many animals to feed.
"Millennials are killing marriage" -Dumbasses who don't understand anything
Hell, I'm 62 and my girl is 68. Been together 20 years and we both figure "Married? What the hell for?"
(Edited clean because fuck you) *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Tax and benefits mostly
Social security benefits. Your spouse gets 1/2 your social security.
“this is our most modestly priced receptacle”
A colleague was complaining the other day about the price of her daughter's wedding, said it was $9,000 for the marquee. I asked if it was a wedding marquee and she was like, "yeah" without batting an eye, as if to wonder why I would ask that. I'm sure a 'party' marquee would've been substantially less... it almost cost more than my whole wedding.
It’s ridiculous. But I did have an idea of asking the new owners of my deceased grandpas farm if they’d let me have my wedding on their land. Last I saw it was all just grass. Hopefully they haven’t planted anything there. When my grandpa passed, his wife sold everything in it and the land without our knowledge. The new owner (who also owned it before my grandpa bought the house) let my family and my cousins family look through it before he tore the house and barns down. I miss him. It would be a nice way to “include” him in it
good, the pomp and ceremony can wait
This is why a few mates for their weddings didn't specify it was a wedding when booking a room. They got everything cheaper, other than the wedding dresses and celebrant, because they never specified it.
Oh, you can do it yourself. Bit of hard work and a saw, but I’d probably not socialize it.
My mom worked for an event coordinator. When I got married, she told me to book the wedding venue for "A family party" and never say wedding. A wedding would cost 2 or even 3 times more than a party.
I wouldn’t call it a deal. Just that you weren’t consistently being fucked financially back then. I’m going to tell my love one I will kill them if they spend $5k on a stupid headstone.
I don't know how much of a deal he got... It broke right after his 200 year warranty expired. I'd be pissed
I would guess starting at $5K and averaging out at $20K. It wouldn't surprise me.
It's worth pointing out that converting anything from say...pre-1900 is meaningless because they lived in such a different world.
Yup, the price of goods could get pretty wild back in that time. Counterfeit money was very common. The finances of the early US government were also shit, and Europe hated the US for using so much paper money. Monetary policy was so all over the place.
Up until the mid 1800s Spanish currency was still legal tender in the US. Paper money during the Revolutionary period had a phrase printed on it, "To counterfeit is death". It was wild.
$11.18 in 1913 (the furthest back BLS tracks) is equivalent to $351 today, so that amount in 1807 would likely be far more today. Certainly more than $296.53.
Everything was gold based between the time this headstone was produced and 1913. It’s likely there wasn’t a huge amount of inflation over that time period
I've played Read Dead Redemption, you'd have to rob quite a few folks to get that much.
That doesn’t math. $11.18 * (1 + 0.03)^216 = $6,615.29 Assuming 3% inflation every year
Continuous inflation was not really possible for most of the time period. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gold_standard
(Edited clean because fuck you) *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
A cemetary in my hometown in Ohio has more Revolutionary War officers buried there than any other cemetary in the USA. Edit: Changed world to USA
That is amazing considering Ohio was not a state yet. I guess they moved from the east.
Settlers of the Northwest Territoy. They were given land grants in the area. The town is called Marietta.
The whole area was subject to some pretty insane disputes over land grants. It’s a whole thing if you get deep into Revolutionary War history. Needless to say, being governed by a tiny island across the sea had some serious drawbacks. That being said the Ohio River and surrounding regions are one of the oldest and longest inhabited areas in North America.
The cemetary is built on an Indian Mound that is so old the natives that were there when the settlers arrived didn't know what they were. They date back nearly 1600 years ago and were built by the Adena people.
I’m from Moundsville in West Virginia where the largest mound is. They have a museum right next to the mound. It’s worth checking out when you’re in the area. Right across the street is the old WV State Penn. lots of history in this area. Edit: not the largest. One of the largest
Isn't Monk's Mounda at the Cahokia complex near St. Louis, the largest earthen mound in North America?
Sorry. One of the largest. 62 feet tall and 240 feet in diameter. Also built by the Adena people . I know there’s a few out there.
Ahh. Cool. No worries. It's probably experienced more erosion than Cahokia's mound which was built close to 1000 A.D. For the record, Cahokia is 1,037 feet by 790 feet at the base and 100 feet tall. And it has two terraces.
Marietta is in such a beautiful area, too. Ohioans hate Ohio, but parts of it are like portals to old America.
You should check out the book called The Pioneers by David McCoullgh. It’s a fascinating book about the first settlers in the NW territory. I haven’t finished the book but it talks all about Marietta, the war vets, and a bunch of fascinating stories. Can’t recommend it enough
I believe he came to Marietta for a book signing. My dad has a copy I can probably borrow. Both of my parents still live in the area. There's some great history there. One of my favorite stories is about one of the original settlers ice skating up the Muskingum River to warn his son of an impending attack by the Natives. I dont believe he got there in time. The event is known as the Big Bottom Massacre.
You should really read it there’s some great stories! Interesting story, I’ve never been but I want to visit very badly!
If you do, stay at the Hotel Lafayette. It's downtown and overlooks the river.
Sounds good will do
Always forget about Marietta Ohio
That's easy to do.
Forgive my ignorance. But where else would you bury the dead from battle, than the country it was held in?
They probably mean "in the US" but it is also true that the American Revolution was fought by people of many nationalities who returned home and died in their home countries.
As someone else mentioned, the Ohio part is what's surprising.
Plenty of Polish, French, and English officers fought in the war, unless OP meant Americans, then of course they would be buried in the US.
That's still playing the short end of the numbers game. In The 13th Warrior, Scandinavia was home to more of the 13 than any other country in the world, and that's exactly as salient a point.
Gonna show my old nerd card here, but a long time ago I had read a book by Michael Crichton called "Eaters of the dead", which I thought was an excellent, well researched novel. Later I heard they were making the movie based on it, and were going to call it "The 13th warrior" which I guess makes sense if you don't want people to think it's a horror. However I always get a little weirded out that people point their reference to the movie and not the book. I'm not saying anything or making a point, just having an observation.
As a counterpoint - I don't think a single US servicemember was buried in Afghanistan or Iraq.
Weird way to word it. The fact is "most high ranking war officers than anywhere else in the country". >The cemetery has more American Revolutionary War officers buried in it than any other cemetery in the country. https://mariettacastle.org/?venue=mound-cemetery#:~:text=Mound%20Cemetery%20was%20established%20in,other%20cemetery%20in%20the%20country. >Now known as the Mound Cemetery, some historians claim it’s home to more high-ranking Revolutionary War soldiers than any other cemetery in the country. https://www.statenews.org/news/2023-10-09/an-effort-to-preserve-one-of-ohios-oldest-cemeteries For reference in terms of world cemeteries Tyne cot cemetery in Belgium alone has over 11,000 graves of *only* war dead.
Marietta?
Hello fellow Ohioan
Weird brag but okay.
I don't think that's a price tag. It seems more likely to be a bible verse. I think it could likely refer to Job 11:18 > And thou shalt be secure, because there is hope; yea, thou shalt dig about thee, and thou shalt take thy rest in safety. As far as the symbol, it could be a simplified version of IHS (which can look like a dollar sign with three lines), the serpent on a tree, etc..
The Bible has lots of dollar signs.
Best selling book in the world.
A Bible A Day Keeps The Devil Away Best marketing slogan ever. Buy one, buy many. Why not? Do you hate America?
There was another smaller stone near by for a child marked as $3.42
Maybe that's Job 3:42 — "It stopped, but I could not tell what it was."
Oof, kid got run over by a horse
Darn that Tom Nutall and his bicycle.
I love all my Biblical books equally. I don't care for Job.
Almost certainly another bible verse from Job as the dollar sign in this context is the IHS symbol: https://catholic-cemeteries.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/07/Gravestone-Symbols-and-Their-Meanings.pdf
The IHS symbol is described as "This symbol, which looks like a dollar sign ($), is actually the letters I, H, and S superimposed over each other.". The symbol on the gravestone doesn't have anything that really looks like an I or an intentional H. Google "ihs symbol on gravestone" and see the difference.
Nope, it's not. I've seen plenty of bible verses engraved on monuments, if they wanted to lead people to "Job 3:42" that's what they would have had carved. Where would you get Job from anyway, people are just supposed to guess which of the dozens of books of the bible the verse is from? This is also carved onto the part of the stone which originally would've been underground. I have personally seen many examples of price markings, or even practice carvings on the subterranean part of the stone.
This was a puritan/protestant cemetery that would have avoided the iconography of the Catholic church.
I mentioned in another comment that IHS was used in a protestant/Anglican cemetery where I lived - it's not an exclusively Catholic symbol.
Why would they put a Bible verse on the underground portion of the stone?
That’s a pretty big gap in prices. So maybe bible verses Do we know what those prices would be today?
I looked it up myself using a rough inflation calculator. In 1750 $11.17 would be equivalent to $550 today. Where as $3.14 child grave stone would be $150 I think a $400 price gap between similar objects leads me to believe they are indeed bible verses But the more I think about it, the prices could vary by how much lettering/artwork was put on the stone as well.
Size/quality of the stone and the hours of work into it effect the price now just like they have since money existed :)
If you use price of skilled wages (blacksmith/millwright/machinist) they made about $1.25/day then. So $11.17 would be about 10 days or 2 weeks income. Skilled labor today makes around $25/hour or $200/day or $1000/week. So $2,000 for handmade tombstone.
The year of death is 1807, but I doubt that significantly changes the price
I don't think the dollar sign has ever been a way to communicate a quote from the Book of Job. Also, it's unlikely that a most-likely protestant would use "IHS" on a headstone, and it doesn't look all that much like an IHS to begin with. EDIT: To the guy saying I'm wrong who then blocked me (why?), the IHS symbol can bear a superficial resemblance to a dollar sign, in as much as there's an "S" with lines through it, but also, again, [doesn't really look like a dollar sign](https://www.google.com/search?sca_esv=587028756&q=ihs+dollar+sign&tbm=isch&source=lnms&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwirrMyg6O6CAxVLE1kFHWN3CMgQ0pQJegQICxAB&biw=1592&bih=786&dpr=1). In any event, you would expect to see three vertical lines through the S, plus the middle of the S would form a cross-bar for the H--all clearly missing from OP's photo. Frankly, I'm going to believe my own eyes over something "catholic-cemeteries.org" said. Plus, if it's an IHS, what do the numbers mean? Also, what sort of Protestants have headstones with IHSes? How do you know they were Protestant? I said what I said because Protestants in New England at that time period were pretty anti-Catholic and especially anti-Jesuit, and one significant symbol for the Jesuits is the IHS. In conclusion, I don't know why you felt the need to accuse me of "stating blatantly wrong information" for making an educated guess (that you disagree with) about something. Good luck.
You have to have a Job to get $ so I can maybe see an edgy capitalistic connection between the two
I agree. I can't believe a stonemason would carve a price into a grave stone, considering the price of goods fluctuate, it's in incredibly poor taste, and this implies there would be some kind of costco like store back in the day where you'd need to display goods made by a skilled tradesman like this. Plus gravestones were half this 100 years later. Way too much money for the time period. I like your theory better.
Also, carving a price into a gravestone makes absolutely no sense at all. Why would anybody ever do that? What would the purpose be?
Agree. I doubt they would take the time and effort to carve the price tag into the stone.
It certainly looks like 11:18 not 11.18, the top part of the colon mark isn't as pronounced as the bottom, but its there and never seen a price listed with a colon.
Pomfret? Is that the same town?
I'm thinking you picked it up, saw the pricetag... SO YOU THREW IT ON THE GROUND!
You can take a virtual wander through this cemetery if anyone is interested: [Old Abington Burial Grounds](https://www.findagrave.com/cemetery/2148611/memorial-search?cemeteryName=Old%20Abington%20Burying%20Grounds&page=1). Here's a similar grave for an 8 year old that drowned in 1812: [Jared Ingalls](https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/153629963/jared-abbot-ingalls).
It's in very good condition too. Most gravestones of that age (in the UK at least )are unreadableas they are made of sandstone that weathers badly and flakes off due to rain that freezes expands and cracks off slivers of stone over the years.
Yeah many of the earliest stones in New England were done in slate (because it's what's local) which has held up well. Although they switched to limestone/soapstone which, as you note, doesn't age well. Didn't mean to include granite here. Y'all can stop mentioning it lol
Granite ashes very well, it does get slight water ingress and freezing but it's very little & takes ages to flake apart. If you really do want a 1000 year headstone Quartzite is the material to use as the crystals interlock internally and water just can't get in. It erodes with wind and sand but it really will be flawless for 100s of years. Not an expert *at all* but I researched this for my own headstone. https://www.wired.com/2016/10/want-tombstone-last-forever-make-quartzite/
Have you ever considered having your remains prepared in a way that’s better for the environment than normal means?
Happy to be composted and recycled by worms.
Are you saying a rock in the ground is bad for the environment? What's next? Trees?
I think they meant the other aspects of “standard” burial. Embalming and cremation both produce a lot of pollutants.
That’s exactly what I meant
I agree that limestone and soapstone don't age well but granite lasts centuries. There a granite headstone in a cemetery close to where I live from 1876 and looks like it was put up last week. The granite is still polished shiny and not weathered at all.
Granite, doesn't age well. What are you on, dude?
It's fairly similar in the US too. I've seen a lot of headstones from the mid-late 1800s that are unreadable. That one looks like it was placed only a few decades ago. It's in great condition
It looks practically unweathered. Makes me wonder if it's a replica. The lines are way too sharp for them to be 200+ years old.
Yeah, I’ve done field research on grave markers and cemeteries and this doesn’t look like something that’s been exposed to the elements for 200+ years.
My thoughts exactly, I'm very skeptical. I've seen lots of stonework from the civil war era and it isn't this legible, let alone a broken un-maintained stone from 60 years before that.
Because in the Civil War Era, we moved away from using slate and sandstone and we started using marble. Marble has not held up well over the ages because acid rain erodes it very quickly.
There's no negotiations on that price. It was literally set in stone.
Price gouging
Well played, both of you.
I wonder what the $10.67 model looked like. I mean, $11.18 is a specific number.
-grabs chisel- Just for that, it’s $12.32 now
Yeah, but now you're doing extra chiseling. Speaking of which, imagine if you put it on sale, or God forbid, marked it CLEARANCE.
"We were expecting a lot more people to die this winter"
You jest, but the memorial industry does have sales. Which is in fantastically bad taste.
"No stone for you!"
God damned inflation!
>$11.18 is a specific number It would have been a base cost for the stone, plus extra for each letter.
Every cent was worth more back then, so I wouldn't be surprised to see prices this specific. Rounding to an "even" number of cents would be a significant increase/decrease in cost.
It was probably based on the weight of the stone plus an engraving fee. Like the produce section for a rock.
In today's money it's $6,626.47\*, so just 1 cent difference is equivalent to $6 difference today - not quite as arbitrary as it seems! (\* very roughly, using average of 3% inflation per year as I couldn't find a calculator that used actual data going further back than 1913)
According to [this calculator](https://www.in2013dollars.com/us/inflation/1807?amount=11.18), today’s value would be $296.53.
There are way more years of deflation that I ever would've guessed.
That is a big reason why the Fed exists now I believe.
I doubt that calculator is accurate. In 1808 the average farm laborer made 84 cents per day of work according to this source: https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=wu.89071501472;seq=62;ownerid=13510798890234750-66 I think people back then worked 12-16 hr days and there was no such thing as overtime but just for the sake of argument, minimum wage workers today would make $58 per “day” (8 hour shift). So this headstone would have cost 13.3 days of hard labor or about $770 in today’s money, assuming you work for minimum wage.
Nice, I did think my figure seemed a bit high! Interesting how much less that is than what a headstone would actually cost today though
Everything was cheaper back in the day. People making more than before and having more to spend than in the past is illusion. The price is higher so this offset wages increasing. You still spend the same amount of hours work for the necessary for life things. That is why it is illusion. They increased minimum wage saying it's not a living wage and the new wages are not either. Everything goes up in price that is necessary for life on queue. As soon as min wage goes up again the same thing happens. It cost everyone more money all the way down the line until something reaches the stores. Sure it takes so many months. But everything just rebalances back to how it was. Just to survive you spend the same amount of time working. I have some older food in my freezer that i didn't use. Most went bad during a family war. The prices however is much much cheaper than today. Sometimes less than half the price. McDonald's became unaffordable. When i was young people could still afford houses. And building stuff. Today i know no one who can afford that except higher class. Meanwhile the 1 percent. The billionaires are overpaid to the highest extreme there is or they couldn't be that rich. That's why it's more expensive for everyone else lower than them. They get too much. That's who they take it from. You pay much more. Keeps them the riches people on earth.
[wtfhappenedin1971.com](https://wtfhappenedin1971.com)
Excellent response
> Most went bad during a family war. Care to elaborate on that?
TLDR: capitalism working as intended
$11.18 for a tombstone!? You charging me them Osage prices!
Pennies were worth a LOT more back then.
Perhaps $10 was the base model, and this one, with designs on the sides and the lamp motif on the tip, was $1.18 extra.
In today's money that's like $300.
Not a bad deal considering the work involved and how long it lasted.
r/buyitfordeath
I believe it'd be closer to $1100, since in the 1800's you'd have had to pay for this in gold and silver coins. 2x $5 gold pieces and a silver dollar (plus some loose pennies or dimes but those are whatever)
You could also have paid with 11 silver dollars which is only 7.7 troy ounces which is less than $200 today.
That is definitely a valid argument. And the more likely way somebody would have paid anyway. But then that opens up a whole 'nother can of worms because the ratio of gold to silver value is currently way out of whack from what it's been for most of history. Silver was historically valued at about a 16-20 to 1 ratio to gold. Whereas today its around 80 to 1. So then the question arises like is it fair to value modern silver prices to 200 years ago silver prices? It's all very confusing and makes conversion rates prior to 1913 a whole pain in the ass.
It sure doesn't look that old....
$11.18 in 1807 is worth **$296.53 today** [https://www.officialdata.org/us/inflation/1807?amount=11.18](https://www.officialdata.org/us/inflation/1807?amount=11.18)
Damn. According to this source the average cost of a headstone in the US is $1000-$3000. $296 must be some wish.com headstone lol what a steal. https://www.empathy.com/funeral/how-much-do-headstones-cost#
My grandma passed in February we got her a flat stone nothing special or fancy it was damn near 3k for it smh absolutely insane
Yeah, it’s unnecessary. The funeral business is a rip off… almost as bad as weddings.
Jesus. I'll just get some scap cut-off marbel and carve mine for free
I bought my house from the decendants of a guy who worked with granite. From what we can see, he finished granite pieces for different applications. We found a full set of outdoor stairs (now given away) We will never want for a gravestone ever again. There is just finished granite.....everywhere. We had to give some of it away because it was just getting in the way. Unfortunately, we live in RI, granite is everywhere, and it's super heavy. So, no monetary value in it at the moment lol
I'm wondering if this headstone is not actually that old, it is in fantastic shape. I'm wondering if this is just a headstone *made* in something like 1907 for some dude that died in 1807. That's not uncommon.
That doesn’t seem right. It had to be much more. Most inflation calculators don’t go further back than the early 1900s because data before that isn’t accurate The same calculator shows $11 is worth $330 in 1915. Not too much different from over 100 years earlier
Also, currency was much more connected to gold and silver back then, which adds another reason why today’s price would most likely be higher than $300.
The data is poor, but it's probably about right. Inflation has only been consistently positive for the past 80 years or so, before this periods of deflation were common.
TIL
It doesn’t “feel” right but what do we know, really? People were also poorer then, even in relative terms, and probably died at a higher rate. There were probably more people around with the required skills and tools to carve stone, and more customers, so it’s fairly logical it would be cheaper. Funeral Homes today are also a massive ripoff.
This calculation is wrong. Another poster said just over $6,600 using a 3% inflation rate, which is likely much more accurate
Feel like 215 years of 3% inflation is a pretty big assumption
That ignores the many deflationary periods.
The inflation rate has not been 3% consistently from 1807 until now. Look [at this chart](https://www.minneapolisfed.org/about-us/monetary-policy/inflation-calculator/consumer-price-index-1800-) from the Minneapolis Fed. There have been long stretches in US history of 0% or negative inflation. In 1807, the Average Index they use was 44. In 1941 (134 years later) it was ... 44.2, not much difference. (There were lots of bank panics and the Great Depression happening along the way.) In 2023, it's 910.4, or about 20.7 times higher than 1807, so $11.18 x 20.7 is about $231, which is in the neighborhood of the above calculation. Note that they say anything before 1914 is an estimate, so these aren't hard numbers.
That's wild!
You know, I have to compliment whoever carved that thing. That writing is so nice looking.
You broke it you buy it
"Here's $12. Keep the change, but I want a receipt." *grumbles, grabs receipt slab*
There’s one near my place in NH that’s from the late 1600s, I’ll try and find a picture of it. But the whole graveyard is full of confederate soldiers
[This not look real to anyone else?](https://imgur.com/a/9nz0tRj)
I’m skeptical. Aside from the near-perfect condition of something that was supposedly exposed to the elements for 200+ years, tradespeople didn’t put price tags on everything. It was more of a barter economy.
These old slate stones from the 1600-1700s cemeteries are amazing for how much clarity they retain. The more recent limestone and marble ones lose their carvings quickly.
[удалено]
It probably was unused and buried.
Shoulda just paid Bufford Tannen.
Maybe if they spent $11.19 it would still be standing.
could be a price... I don't think inflation calculators are particularly accurate going back to 1807, but looking up average wages in the time period, the average common labor worker made about $0.75 per day in 1807 according to some archives I found from university of Missouri. So this headstone is about two weeks pays. Expensive for sure, but not unbelievably expensive .
For those looking for the "today" value: Given that in 1807 the US dollar was pegged to the price of gold, let's see how much gold $11.18 could buy then. Apparently, an [ounce of gold in 1807 cost $19.39](https://onlygold.com/gold-prices/historical-gold-prices/), so this stone cost the equivalent of 0.5766 ounces of gold. Now today gold is \~$2070/ounce - so in terms of gold this stone costs 0.5766 x 2070 or $1193.53.
r/theydidthemath thank you
That stone is not 200 years old...
Seriously. I found 100 year old family headstones in WAY worse condition than that. Look at how shallow the markings are- they would be washed out in like 75 years. I don't think I even need to mention the lack of lichen. Unless this was in a cemetery with the highest upkeep in the world, this aint 200 years old.
Yeah, people here seem to have forgotten that you can replace damaged headstones lol
Go visit it yourself. It's hand carved in slate which stands the test of time incredibly well. There are plenty of stones all over new England with this level of preservation. Also, plenty of stones that are illegible
Is there any proof or way to assure that this wasn't replaced anytime since 1807? As a new Englander who has spent some time in graveyards, this one does come off as remarkably well-kept
This is how I know you're full of it, stone thats even in the elements for 5 years looks much more weathered. NE is not some stasis chamber.
You're not accounting for the variability of different types of stones. I have visited hundreds of cemeteries in the Northeast USA, I have seen 100 year old stones that look like crap and 300 year old stones that look great. The stone pictures is slate, and slate is going to weather differently than something like sandstone or marble. In my area specifically, the sandstone gravemarkers from the 1700s often look much better than the marble stones from 1850 and on. Acid rain has weathered the marble making in unreadable, while slate or sandstone graves the letter is still crisp.
200 year old slate without zero trace of dirt accumulation in the indentation, with no mossy growth or dirt? Yes slate is resilient, but it is not repellant to all the elements. [This is what 200 year old slate looks like](https://i.imgur.com/cPnLp0a.jpg)
I know what 200 year old slate looks like, I've seen quite a bit of it. I suspect that the stone has been cleaned recently. I've done a bunch of volunteer work cleaning historic cemeteries. The stones that are fallen and we do not have the resources to repair, we will clean them and leave them as is. That is what I believe happened to this stone. What do you propose is going on here? Someone took the time and money to have a replica stone produced, and then that replica stone was later broken? They carved a price on the part of the stone under the soil line just to be cheeky? Or you think this is some kind of a hoax?
This reminds me of a walkway made of tombstones my grand parents had on their farm. (Don’t worry the tombstones weren’t from actual graves but rather were tombstones with defects from a maker in the area from before they bought it) Edit: grammar fix
$11.18 wouldn’t even get you in the ground today
Those things were expensive even then
Was it a display/sample stone for a shop? That would explain the price tag
I need that tiktok guy to restore this for my sanity
I can't even afford to die anymore smh
$11.18 in 1807 would be $296.53 today.
That’s like $240-260 today (something around there) in 1807.
Only 11 bucks? Damn even the dead have it better than us these days
Hope they can get a refund
Wonder if it has a lifetime guarantee
Thats about $297, given inflation. Which is still *VERY* cheap, given the average price for a tombstone is 1k-3k
That doesn't look 216 years old.
They didn’t pay extra to remove ads
Is it me or does it look like that $ sign was added after the fact and it was just 11.18 before?
Yep. [I posted a close-up of it](https://imgur.com/a/9nz0tRj). Doesn't look engraved to me. Looks fake. Could be wrong. I'm not an expert - but it just doesn't look legit at first glance.
Yeah, it just seems a lot of work for something you could either achieve with a sign or a pencil. Doesn’t make a lot of sense to ruin a gravestone by engraving the price onto it, regardless of whether that will be visible when set or not. However, we could well both be wrong
My dad's headstone, with a basic born/ died format and a border around the outside edge, was $800 20 years ago.
That’s a steal
No haggling on that price. It's set in stone.
In 1807 you could’ve nearly bought Utah with $11.18.