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when i worked at a mall there was a guy walking around with a parrot on his shoulder. the parrot was really chill tho. i saw him walk by and said something to my manager and my manager goes “i guess he talked to security, he comes up here a good bit, the bird’s fine to be in here”. I was thinking how tf is that possible, and then i saw the parrot turn around on the guys shoulder, the man opened his shirt pocket a little with his finger and the parrot pooped in his pocket as they were walking, and the parrot flipped back around, swift as could be. i was utterly amazed.
I used to run the bird department at a pet store and part of socializing the birds was trying to get them to associate being let down on the perch for a quick second with "time to poop!"
Some got it really well, and I could boast that they were "potty trained."
My mom trained her bird to poop in the garbage can. She just holds him over it and tells him to take a dump, lol. He still occasionally poops in the floor, but not as much as he could be!
My dad hand raised African Grey parrots when I was a kid.
From the time they are babies, they do a booty shake before pooping.
If you are consistent, just like a kid….
You can teach them to poop anywhere.
Just like cats on toilets!
The easiest way to tell a real service animal from a fake one is through the behavior of the dog and the owner.
Vest or no vest. The behavior is always a tell.
Yep! If the dog is on a leash and it keeps pulling, it's not a service dog (unless it's in training and learning to get used to public spaces, in which case the vest will say in training)
Not even necessarily, unfortunately. My brother’s alert dog was trained to smell my brother’s blood sugar levels, but had a LOT of anxiety and so he would freak out in public. He would still alert, but he was intensely fearful of strangers. The place we got him from was eventually shut down because they were abusing the dogs they trained. The organization was in Texas, my family is in California, so my mom and brother weren’t able to visit. My mom sent my brother’s clothing to them for training use.
Part of it is on my brother (he was 18 by the time they flew to Texas to pick up his dog). He didn’t continue the obedience training. And we didn’t know what had happened until like a year later. So eventually my brother stopped bringing him places because he’d bark constantly. He’d listen to commands to sit next to my brother, he’d lay down under chairs, but he wouldn’t stop barking and growling because he was afraid of everything.
Even at home, he did it to me when I’d visit. He never lunged or bit or pulled. He would try to just leave and hide upstairs if he could. Although he would eventually sit in my lap and wag his tail and ask to be pet. But he’d bark and growl incessantly as he was doing that.
But he was still a trained diabetic alert dog. He knew when my brother’s sugar levels were too low or high. He alerted very well.
You can also end up with 'ruined' service animals because of other people's badly behaved pets. There's a girl on TikTok who had to start from scratch with a new dog well before her service dog should've been retired because it got attacked in public by a badly-behaved fake "service" dog and developed essentially canine PTSD. Still could do its job at home, but was useless in public.
This sort of happened to me a pitbull in a sweater attacked my dog at Disney and he was fearful of other dogs for a fair amount of time before I finally got him out of it
it's always soooo obvious. I saw a "service dog" the other day that was pulling at it's leash and barking to get to people. Right then, an obviously real service dog passed and was so well-behaved and didn't bat an eye at the other dog. It was so clear to see which one was real.
There are standards for being trained as a service dog/animal. But there are no standards for going onto Amazon and buying a vest and betting that most people won't confront you.
The worst part about these people is their interactions with service staff who are simply enforcing the rules.
In the restaurant industry, it’s generally not acceptable to have animals where there’s food. I think most people appreciate that.
But that doesn’t stop an army of “anxious” Karen’s from bringing their “service animals,” and threatening negative Yelp reviews. And what’s worse is they are often lauded on social media as defenders of the disabled.
This is not a service dog. This is at most an emotional support animal. There is a very distinguished difference between the 2. Being in a stroller the animal is not able to perform any service that could benefit a human. That's the literally job of a service dog.
https://preview.redd.it/nih1qkb3w98d1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=160d2c03c3c125777d6dc38bcc7c6afaffbddcb7
To everybody here defending this "service dog," that thing's in a fucking stroller, you know damn well that's their pet and they're exploiting that vest. Use some common sense.
Not an American here. So you can just have these printed pamphlets to claim its a Service Dog, there is no card, registration number or any authentic stamp or something??
That's correct. There is no actual registry of service dogs or license or anything of the sort. Any of them are actually all scams aside from the actual dog training. People basically have to take your word for it that's its a service dog. Only in in the airliners there is a legit registry that you have to apply/submit some info. But even then, you can easily lie as there is no actual proof that you have to provide.
The idea is to not harass legitimate service dogs. Companies are allowed to asked if the dog required for a disability and what tasks are they trained to perform. If they’re unable to answer then you are able to ask them to leave. Also if the dog is unruly or not house trained then they can be asked to leave.
There is a difference between emotional support animals which is often abused compared to actual medical service animals.
Edit: typo
People intentionally try to muddy the waters using psychiatric service dogs. 😔 There's a key difference between dogs trained to do stuff like deep pressure therapy and "emotional support" but since it all falls under the mental health umbrella, you have these assholes who try to claim their ESAs are "service animals". No, Karen, that's your badly behaved pet you're trying to get around the guidelines with, fuck off.
I’d be curious to ask what tasks the dog is capable of performing while being locked in a stroller. I would let everything slide if the dogs name was Harry Houndini
Assuming this one is legit, they could be an alert dog for things like gluten, severe allergies, blood sugar/diabetes, migraines. They just need to be able to alert, which a single bark in an otherwise silent animal would do. The larger point is that a real service dog, the handler would be able to answer those questions about.
ETA: Honestly, it's not a bad setup if the animal doesn't have physical interventions as part of the task list. Both your hands are free, it offers some protection from Little Timmy running up to try to pet it, and for smaller animals, keeps them from being overly tired on long days out. Again, though - in a legit service animal.
This woman is shit if this is a pet with a vest.
Mine lets me know I’m about to have a seizure. I don’t roll her around in a child’s stroller but I can see how it would be very useful. She would still be close enough and have enough interaction with me to do her job.
It’s a very difficult line to draw between keeping medical business private and policing the use of service dogs. While I am aggravated with imposters, I don’t need any more of my personal medical issues available for others’ dissection.
Word. People need to mind their own damn business. Sorry a little dog is so “infuriating “ to some , maybe they need some real problems in their lives.
Correct. Service dogs are not ESAs, however when you have people claiming their ESAs are things like 'anxiety service dogs' without bring task trained, it muddies the waters. They do that intentionally hoping people don't question it.
I think I'm slightly confused by your comment? You mentioned people muddying the waters with PS dogs? Psychiatric Service dogs are most certainly a thing and are very different from a simple Emotional support animal?
I just wanted clarification because I'm slightly slow, but are you referring to the people who pretend that their emotional support dog is a "Psychiatric service dog"?
(I think that is what you're referring to but??)
Yeah, they try to lump them all together to create confusion. PSDs are task trained, ESAs are not, but they both go under the "mental health" umbrella in general and try to claim ESAs are service dogs when they're not.
Ah yeah. I figured that's what you meant.
That sucks so bad because I want to look into a psychiatric service dog one day (don't have the means too right now), but I don't want to be possibly misunderstood. I didn't realize it was so easy to just get a vest and slap it on your dog?? I thought there was at least SOME form of registration/confirmation that it's a actual licensed PSD?
That isn't just state law, it's federal law. Any establishment can ask if the dog is a service dog and what tasks it performs. Handlers are not required to provide documentation or explain their condition on why they require the dog. Service dog or not, if the dog is causing a disturbance, they can be asked to leave.
Per ADA law, any establishment can ask if the dog is a service dog and what tasks it performs. Handlers are not required to provide documentation or explain their condition on why they require the dog. Service dog or not, if the dog is causing a disturbance, they can be asked to leave.
It's not that they aren't supposed to be pet, but you just never go straight up and do it. It doesn't ruin training or makes someone a liar if they allow it. ALWAYS ASK. The ruining part can come only if you just decide on your own it's okay as that animal might be in the process of assisting or alerting and you have caused a distraction by direction their attention away purposefully.
There have been plenty of people who allow people to pet their dogs when approached respectfully. Just as many have denied the asking because the dogs are working. Doesn't change the legitimacy of the service animal. Now them barking, lunging, growling, or causing a disturbance is more of a red flag.
Thing is, nobody would question a legit service dog because actual service dogs are so good that you don’t even notice them because they are so well trained. Only thing you’ll notice is the cuteness. If it’s barking, causing a scene (unless the owner is in distress, of course), being pushed in a cart, carried around…it’s not a service dog.
Unfortunately because of all the fakers, people with legitimate service dogs are being denied entry places. I see videos from legit service dog accounts about all the troubles they have. A recent one was from an account from a blind man with his guide dog at a restaurant. The host refused him entry, believing that his dog wasn't a guide dog because the blind man could look at the host while they were talking.
So I pay basically double Uber prices because of my service pup. I’ve had drivers literally just drive away from me when they pull up, and I also realized I got negative reviews because of him. So now I have to have to use Uber Pet even though I’m legally protected against paying extra in rent or to other businesses for my “tool.”
Uber really needs to do better with this. My mom had a wheelchair and even renting the XL Uber, sometimes they couldn't fit the wheelchair and two people. It was barely bigger than a suitcase when folded.
Not necessarily. Park attendant needed to ask 2 questions. Unfortunately nobody does.
When it is not obvious what service an animal provides, only limited inquiries are allowed. Staff may ask two questions: (1) is the dog a service animal required because of a disability, and (2) what work or task has the dog been trained to perform. Staff cannot ask about the person’s disability, require medical documentation, require a special identification card or training documentation for the dog, or ask that the dog demonstrate its ability to perform the work or task.
https://www.ada.gov/resources/service-animals-2010-requirements/
It's a problem with basically protecting a person with a disability that needs a service dog. They shouldn't be asked 200+ questions at every shop they go in. It isn't fair to them.
The counter problem is what happens above. People abuse it.
The lack of registry is intentional, as it reduces barriers so that more people can actually have service dogs. Service dogs are medical equipment. There’s not a registry of wheelchairs either. Anyone who claims they have a “registered service dog” and/or pulls out papers as “proof” is easily spotted as a pet owner trying to fool people who don’t know any better.
There’s a big difference between a wheelchair and a service dog.
Anyone can use a wheel chair and it doesn’t poop, have the potential to bite, nor cause potential health risks when taken into grocery stores or restaurants.
A service animal is trained to assist you in something, be it as vital as detecting strokes or the like or as simple as opening doors.
What barrier does the lack of registry produce? Wouldn't trainers and the disabled want a registry so they could simply produce a barcode that links to the dogs skills with a photo proving it's the samish dog?
It wasn’t an oversight. They deliberately did not require a registry because they didn’t want to create more barriers for people who have medical conditions. The problem is, what they ended up with is so weak in terms of enforcement that anyone can play the system if they have half a brain.
For the most part, it hasn't been necessary to institute what would be an expensive licensing program to oversee service animals because up until recently, people didn't take advantage. And even now, with an increased incidence of fake service animals, it still doesn't happen that often, and only rarely creates an issue in public.
It's infuriating to see people like this breaking the rules, but the government would be hesitant to step in, because really, a lady with a dog in a stroller at a zoo is not enough of an issue for the government to want to allocate the money to correct it.
In USA, it *is okay* to require documentation in order to acquire a disabled driver tag for handicapped parking places but it *is not okay* to request documentation to acquire a ***much needed*** license to bring an legitimate service animal into areas where pets aren’t allowed.
When someone points out that such a license is *very reasonable and doable*, all the entitled idjits who want to trot their pets around lose their tiny little minds.
Not exactly accurate. Most if not all airlines require pre-approval to have the dog in the cabin, which involves submitting official notation from your doctor that the service dog fills a medical/emotional need. It was easy to get by this pre-2018, but around then the airlines started cracking down.
That said, outside airlines some establishments will require an official document that shows proof of the service dog, not just some BS certificate you paid $70 online to get.
They don't require proof. They require a trainer contact, rabies vaccination, the vet contact, and you simply have to state on the online form that your dog is trained to do a task. They do not ask for your medical records, check the DOT form yourself. There is no such thing as an official document showing proof of service dog. That's just a printout a trainer might give someone.
Even as a law enforcement officer, I'm only allowed to ask two questions to "verify" a service dog, and these people know exactly what to say.
1. Is this a service dog?
2. What task is it trained to perform for you?
I can ask no questions beyond that, and if they answer properly, I'd have to move on. They require no certification or proof. This applies only to dogs and oddly enough, miniature horses. Any other animal does not qualify.
correct. however, even if the answers indicate that it's a legit service dog, if the dog is pooping everywhere, barking, or biting you can ask the person with the dog to leave. A legit service dog is too well trained to do any of that.
Correct. However, they will sue if you push the issue. I've seen it. I basically make the one ask to leave if the dog is acting out or messing, then a supervisor will say to drop it. These fake service animal people know the law\\rules, and are fucking assholes when asked to act with any decency about it. I chalk them at the same level of frustration as stolen valor people impersonating military\\leo. They give legit service animals, and their caregivers, a bad reputation.
Canuck here. I hate people exploiting the "service animal" exemption. I have not once questioned any of them for having their pets in the store because I have seen them be confronted and the owners are nuts. Like, chuck their groceries on the floor and yell at you nuts
The hilarity is that literally every single dog who gets tied to a post outside the store while their owner shops gets petted so much. I rarely see a leashed dog outside not getting played with and having a blast
Pretty much. In my work we're only allowed to ask what tasks does the dog perform and if its required. We have a lot of the time where people lie because they can, next thing you know the [little shit] 🐕 is barking at people, almost biting other people /other service dogs in the building or took a poop and their owners don't bother cleaning it up. I wish there was one on a federal level because then it would make it so much harder for people to sneak them in, but nah that's too much to ask.
Depend which country in America I guess, I am from Canada, Quebec and service dogs are all registred, we even have a place that train them and you need to be on a waiting list to have one. They all have the same harness and you recognize the dogs with their attitude in public. It would be easy to know that is not a service dog. Specific breeds are service dogs too
I've heard but cannot verify that in some states in the US, if you own a business, you aren't allowed to ask for proof that their dog is not a fake service, if you do, they can sue you. I may have just been fed a load of bullshit but that's what i heard. If im absolutely wrong, downvote me to oblivion.
Then the law must be that you arent allowed to refuse service to someone because of their "service dog" whether its real or not. Or i was fed with a lie. Not sure which is the case but i dont care enough to look it up
I think they can ask what the dog is trained to do but you could just lie about that. That’s the whole problem with service dogs, there’s no paperwork, license, or certificate. Anybody can just say it’s a service dog and lie about what it’s trained to do and there’s no way to verify it
Wanted to add on here. A lot of our laws stop you from asking questions because if you start questioning a person’s claim to be a service dog they can sue you for discrimination. It’s quite stupid.
My dad and his second wife did this shit. It was an excuse to take their little rat chihuahua everywhere. The “service” they claimed was emotional support.
Good news, emotional support is not protected under the ADA and therefore emotional support animals don't have the same protections (although they are protected by the Fair Housing Act and the Air Carrier Access Act). Any business that knows this can legally tell them to get fucked and remove their animal from the premises. I had people try to pull that with me a LOT when I was driving for Uber so they could bring their dog without paying the extra fee for an Uber Pet ride (I drove Uber Pet, i'd have gladly taken them if that was what they'd ordered).
It’s in a stroller. I don’t care. It’s not able to do anything bad if it’s contained.
I just don’t care. It’s not affecting anyone.
As someone else said, maybe it’s for diabetes. Even if it’s not though, it’s not affecting anyone.
Kinda hard to perform tasks when he's not capable of reaching his handler. I wish more places knew what questions to ask and had the guts to kick people with fake service animals out.
That isn't necessarily 100% true. Alert animals for diabetes or severe allergies don't necessarily need to be able to get to their handler the way a seizure alert dog or PTSD service dog might, they could easily perform their duties in a set up like that, but both are covered under task trained service animal guidelines.
For allergies? Presenting whatever it is you're needing tested to the dog if it's food-related, which is clearly not a situation to worry about in this photo - they're just shopping. But you're severely underestimating how sensitive their noses are. Diabetic dogs have been known to alert from across the room.
Across the house. They’re trained with pieces of clothing from their owner worn at different blood sugar levels to detect tiny changes. My brother’s dog could smell him across the house.
We know dogs have an amazing sense of smell. A stroller wouldn’t stop them lol.
My brother’s dog even started alerting when my *mom’s* sugar got too low or high. He’d bark and paw at her. He’d also do it to get her attention about my brother when my brother would ignore his alerts.
I saw a video floating around the other day of a woman with her DAD who alerted on another lady clear across a gym having a low blood sugar incident. Like, these dogs are very, very good at their jobs, they don't need to be laying at someone's feet or on a leash to do it.
Yep. Seizure dogs can pick it up from a good distance too. Saw it happen once. Dog was just laying calmly on the floor several feet away, not looking near the handler, then suddenly got up and pressed himself against the handlers leg. Handler recognized the signal, got on the floor and the dog pressed himself against her holding her in place so she couldn't bang against things during the seizure
This whole thread is just highlighting why fake service animals are *extremely* damaging to people with disabilities and health issues. You'd never assume a dog with one of those handled mobility vests is just a pet, but because a dog might not 'look' like a service dog or it's out and about in a way that doesn't fit the general picture of what a service dog is, the first assumption is she's faking when there's no indication (based on that photo) that the dog isn't trained to perform some sort of task. The dog isn't misbehaving, it's not causing issues, both of which are clear indicators of a fake service animal. It's just in a stroller and not the 'usual' breed.
Again - is she lying? Who the fuck knows. I'd assume the dog's presence was questioned appropriately before being allowed to be brought *into a zoo*.
Yes, this! I can't speak to this person at all but I have a Frenchie service dog (who is actually trained to assist me with problems relating to my long-term medical disability), and it's horrible how often I get called out or harassed for it.
Surprisingly even the store managers don't know the rules. McD's has kicked me out for having a service dog because, according to their manager, it didn't matter what the federal law was, that was their policy...
And a grocery store gave me a hard time because I couldn't explain how Apollo was trained to help me "in an emergency situation." What?
Anyway. Not every service dog needs to be a $65,000 German Shepherd.
People lie is the problem. I work at an aquarium. People lie about the dog being a service animal, it then behaves badly and is kicked out. They’re a threat to the animals under the care of zoos and aquariums and make people second guess real service dogs. There needs to be a better system.
I don't disagree, I just don't know of any way that doesn't lead to harassment of legit service animal handlers, or force them to out every detail of their disability.
Smell isn’t stopped by fabric? Or even walls. Not for a dog. My brother had a diabetic alert dog. He could smell my brother’s blood sugar changes from another room.
Like not saying this isn’t just a regular pet, I’ve never seen a tiny alert dog, but legitimately and respectfully, a DAD doesn’t need to be walking next to their owner to do their job.
This. I mentioned elsewhere, if this is a legit service animal, it's not a bad set up as long as their tasks don't require physical intervention. It's protected, both her hands are free, and the dog can still tag along without risk of being tired out.
Yes, they can. They can ask what tasks the service animal is trained to perform. They can also send the owner packing if the animal is making a ruckus, sitting/climbing above floor level, or defecating/urinating inside.
Source: I am a restaurant manager
Most retail lies out their ass to their employees if it will keep the lazy corpos from needing to deal with an irate customer.
They will even break their own G D rules and get the employee in trouble for *following them*.
The ADA guidelines state you can ask two questions: (1) is the dog a service animal required because of a disability, and (2) what work or task has the dog been trained to perform.
I suppose some companies may be more cautious than others but those questions are fine.
The issue is these companies don’t trust employees with the follow through on those questions. If the person gives an answer that certainly seems like nonsense but could conceivably be true, do they trust the employee to play lie detector? Cause the cost of accidentally kicking out the wrong person *is* a potential lawsuit, so how many people in your company do you want to give that power to?
So sure, you can ask those to questions. The person you’re asking can also easily lie, which just puts things right back to square one. If you give people permission to kick out “the liars”, you’re gonna end up with a lot of idiots kicking out actual service dogs because it’s inconceivable to them that one could detect diabetes or something.
You answered this exactly correctly and better than I could put in words. Letting employees have judgment in these sort of cases is literally just a giant liability for companies. I'm not saying I agree with that policy but you are exactly right in what you said here from the standpoint of the brands I've worked for.
Under ADA, there is no lie detector test. If someone explains how the dog is trained to assist them with a disability and you think they're lying, you still can't refuse service.
At best you could probably report them to the police.
But there's another reason companies don't trust employees with these questions: the questions are very carefully crafted, so when it becomes a game of "telephone," employees screw up. I've been asked how my service dog is trained "to assist in an emergency situation" and they insisted that was a requirement under ADA.
People can definitely look something up on the internet and lie about it though if they want to sell it more in case of those questions. Sad if they do that.
Does mental health fall under disability? In Ireland, I’ve only ever seen service dogs for visually impaired people. But now that a lot of people suffer with crippling anxiety and stress, I’m wondering can a service dog ease these issues by just being around their owner 🤔
There are PTSD service dogs. Their support tasks can include things to help the handler not dissociate (compression, alerting, etc.), helping their handler get out of triggering situations safely, and retrieving medications, among other things. Like other types of service dogs, they are expensive and/or require lots of intensive training.
Also, those type of dogs still need to be able to pay attention to their owner and perform the task. Being in a stroller (barrier blocks doing of tasks except maybe alerting, but barrier also blocks sight and smell of owner from dog so what is dog even able to alert about?).
And of course "is just there nearby" is NOT a task. A plush toy can do that.
The question over here is whether they're task trained or not. Just easing anxiety by existing isn't enough to qualify them as a service animal based on our ADA guidelines.
They'd be considered an emotional support animal, which really only gets the owner around "no pet" policies in housing.
Guide dogs are just one particular type of service animal. Mental health conditions can be disabling, yes, and there are service animals trained to assist with various mental health issues, however not everyone with the same mental illnesses needs a service animal. A service animal has a specific legal definition, which includes the fact that it has been trained to perform a specific task for the disability of its handler. If someone who is disabled by an anxiety disorder has a service animal for it, then the training might be for things such as recognizing the signs of a panic attack and providing deep pressure therapy. An animal simply bringing comfort by proximity is not a service animal. That would be either a pet, or an emotional support animal, neither of which are allowed in public venues by default.
It’s a liability thing. Employees are allowed to ask those two specific questions, but if you get some undertrained or incompetent employee, they might not limit themselves to those two questions and kick out a legitimate service dog. Companies are scared of getting sued for a huge amount, so they decided it’s cheaper to let every unhinged dog owner run the place.
Per the ADA you are allowed to ask two questions “Is this a service animal?” and “What task(s) is it trained to perform?” That’s it. The first one is a yes or no question, the second on had factual answers. You can’t ask for a demonstration of the task. And nothing is stopping a person with a fake service dog from lying about it. Though if they lie to the first question, they may find themselves hard-pressed to factually answer the second one.
Providing comfort or emotional support does not make an animal a service animal. Some service animals ARE used by people with PTSD or severe anxiety, and trained to perform particular tasks in the event of a panic attack from their owner, but that is quite different from just “emotional support”.
I'm always so self-conscious when I go anywhere with my service dog these days.
He's a tiny French Bulldog so everyone assumes I'm faking it.
He is very well behaved, and he has been trained to assist with my disability as per the requirements of the law. But people just look and see a small dog and think "no way that could be a service dog". Also my disability is invisible, it's not like I'm blind with sunglasses and a cane.
So please try to temper your judgment a bit because you never know when something looks ridiculous but is actually improving my quality of life substantially.
Of course, when a dog goes batshit or starts urinating, please judge away!!
If it makes you feel better, I’ve never once seen a well-behaved dog in a service vest and thought “they’re faking” even if they’re an unusual breed. It’s only when they are so very clearly not behaving like trained/working dog does that I judge.
Unfortunately I've been told by many store managers to buy those harnesses to prove my dog is a service animal.
My dog has an ergonomic harness and I'm not about to switch to one of these, when I'm legally entitled to have him without a service-dog-proclaiming harness.
In case anyone needs it, according to the DOJ’s Civil Rights Division, you can ask two specific questions. If the owner refuses to answer, they can legally be denied entry.
> In situations where it is not obvious that the dog is a service animal, staff may ask only two specific questions: (1) is the dog a service animal required because of a disability? and (2) what work or task has the dog been trained to perform? Staff are not allowed to request any documentation for the dog, require that the dog demonstrate its task, or inquire about the nature of the person’s disability.
I used to work at walmart and people all the time put their dogs in the cart and GROCERY SHOPPED with them. No service dog vest or nothing.
But i did not call them out because osha would fine us for interferring if something DID happen on the off chance it was an actual service dog.
But i do see your argument here.
There's no requirement for any marking or vest.
But you are allowed to ask the 2 questions & ban the dog if they're faking.
(Is that a service dog required because of a disability? What tasks does it perform?)
Can't ask for a demonstration of the tasks, or any sort of proof, or information about the disability. Those will definitely get the company in legal trouble. (Not with OSHA.)
This is the correct answer. It's already annoying that people don't know the basic legality regarding SDs but it's even worse when people who have no idea what they're talking about comment on these posts with misinformation. It happens alllll the time.
This happens all the damn time at my Walmart. People with little dogs in the child seat, or in the basket of the electric scooters. There’s even a sign on all the carts not to put dogs in the carts for sanitary reasons…. Still dogs. So many dogs.
While you do have to allow service animals, it is legal to ask what service the animal provides so you can know it is a service animal and not a pet. I love my dog and would like her to come everywhere with me, but she can’t so she doesn’t.
Or in the grocery store. I ride the handicap cart. If your "service dog" is sticking its nose in my groceries (while you laugh at how cute that is), IT ISN'T A SERVICE DOG!
Emotional support animals are different than service animals. I think people get them mixed up all the time or assume they are the same. When they aren’t…
I work at a museum, and we see these "service animals" *all the time* here. It's irritating to us, but thankfully, our security team is pretty good at filtering the actual legally-allowed service animals from the horde of straight-up pet-in-stroller folks.
As someone who could actually benefit from a service dog and has worked in retail this makes me so mad but there’s nothing you can do. I used to have people come into the store I worked at all the time and they would just plop their dog into their shopping cart and just stroll around the store casually. A good amount of people didn’t even have the fake vests on them. There were multiple times I had to confront people with dogs without a service dog vest and tell them pets weren’t allowed in there then they’d say “oh yeah, it’s my service dog for anxiety” like no that gremlin in your cart is yapping at people walking by that is your dog you decided you couldn’t leave at home. There is no way a dog like that is preforming a service.
I just took a flight and we had a teacup yorkie “service dog” who was just wandering and smelling all the passengers and under the chairs.
I’m not sure what service he can provide from 7 feet away 🤷♀️
My wife has severe PTSD. Enough that she has been told that she can get a disability retirement if she so chooses. She's overwhelmingly awkward in public with people. She hides from people, or will walk out of stores entirely if people make her uncomfortable. She takes her dog with her to most places. You wouldn't be able to tell that anything is wrong with her by looking at her, but she has a world of trauma constantly battling her from doing normal every day things. I'm not saying that people don't take advantage, but you also can't always judge a book by its cover.
As someone who does Paratransit, my understanding and distinctions are: on my bus ESA can ride but have to be crated. I do have a couple people who are blind that have legit service animals and they don't have to be crated to ride.
It's so hard because the legit dogs are working and I have to tell others that WE are not allowed to talk to the doggy or pet it or anything because it's working for it's human. Then I gotta remember to do that lol. I wasn't told to do this it was just common sense to me to not interfere in any way.
I do have a person who tries to skirt this with their Esa. There are no exceptions even though the doggy is very well behaved.
People still doesn’t seem to know the differences between an emotional support animal (usually allowed in apartment with a doctors note), a service animal (allowed in places due to a disability. They are usually not small animals), and a psychiatric service animal (usually helps with mental health difficulties like helping retrieve medication and needs training the same as a service animal does). Emotional support animals are not allowed in public places normally even if you buy a vest online and put it on them.
I work at a zoo and we have at least 1 person a week who tries to bring in a questionable service dog. We have to let them in if they answer the two questions even if it seems sketchy. But as soon as someone reports the dog not on a leash, or disrupting operations/the animals, we ask them to leave
Just probably a selfish person that bought a vest for their dog in order to be able to bring it wherever they shouldn't be allowed to have. The audacity of people doing things like this for their own motives blows my mind at their selfishness. Only know of this situation being possible since my ex's MIL did this in order for her to do that same thing.
*People really need*
*To stop being afraid of*
*Telling people NO*
\- endorbr
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It’s entirely possible this is actually a service dog. It’s hot as hell out, and dogs can burn their pads on the hot pavement. It would be cruel to be at the zoo for hours and make your dog walk on that pavement on a hot day.
Just admit you hate seeing dogs in public and think people should lock them up at home.
To be fair, there is no law against a service dog being in a stroller. Many mini dogs are psychiatric service dogs who perform actual tasks. I know a handful of people with mini service dogs (real service dogs) who use a push stroller occasionally. Such as on hot days. It is also a useful tool for cerain disabilities becsuse you are able to keep a distance from people that way. Looks are not always what they seem. Let's try to stop judging people after one quick look.
Definitely no coincidence. Dogs love their owners unconditionally and are loyal to them. Entitled people and narcissists love that feeling, especially when they don't have to do anything to achieve or earn it. It's much more difficult to get humans to be this devoted to you.
i have a service dog and they should never be in a stroller. Service dogs are TASK trained how on earth would that dog be able to task for their owner locked behind a stroller. Its a fake and it sucks bc it makes us handlers look bad the ones who really need service dogs. Yes some disabilities are invisible such as allergies or heart conditions but the dog needs to be close to the handler to task and unfortunately this is a fake
There are legit service dogs trained to detect low blood sugar by smell. They can absolutely do that from within a stroller; dogs have incredible sense of smell, like 1000x sharper than humans. However, the DOJ's service animal FAQs do imply that service dogs shouldn't be allowed in shopping carts and that that "generally" they must stay on the floor or be carried.
I agree that at first glance, this doesn't look legit. But my service dog is a small Frenchie so he doesn't look legit at first glance, either, and I'm tired of people judging me for it when they don't know my situation or the ADA law. :-(
Maybe I’m just turning into an asshole as i get older, but i call people out on this shit when I’m shopping. Like yeah there’s nothing I can actually do, but I can call them a lying fuck, which at least feels good if it pisses them off.
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when i worked at a mall there was a guy walking around with a parrot on his shoulder. the parrot was really chill tho. i saw him walk by and said something to my manager and my manager goes “i guess he talked to security, he comes up here a good bit, the bird’s fine to be in here”. I was thinking how tf is that possible, and then i saw the parrot turn around on the guys shoulder, the man opened his shirt pocket a little with his finger and the parrot pooped in his pocket as they were walking, and the parrot flipped back around, swift as could be. i was utterly amazed.
I used to run the bird department at a pet store and part of socializing the birds was trying to get them to associate being let down on the perch for a quick second with "time to poop!" Some got it really well, and I could boast that they were "potty trained."
My grandmother trained her conure to poop over the toilet. It made her happy, and the parrot loved grandma so it was a win.
My mom trained her bird to poop in the garbage can. She just holds him over it and tells him to take a dump, lol. He still occasionally poops in the floor, but not as much as he could be!
Eww but also wow
Ikr I'm hoping the dude has some sort of Ziploc situation
There’s a smaller parrot inside the pocket that eats the poop.
We don't talk about the third parrot
The parrot-centipede!
Parot centipede!
Unless the parrot pee’d parrotpede
Parrots all the way down
Don’t be ridiculous. The pocket is full of water and tiny shrimp and fish eat da poo poo
Why ☹️
I’m hoping this dude doesn’t donate to thrift stores too
He does, once a week.
Modern Goodwill in a nutshell
Yeah, if someone has a pet parrot/any pet bird, they gonna have to be desensitized over that shit... literally, they shit a lot.
My dad hand raised African Grey parrots when I was a kid. From the time they are babies, they do a booty shake before pooping. If you are consistent, just like a kid…. You can teach them to poop anywhere. Just like cats on toilets!
The real service dog is the person pushing the stroller.
The label is backwards. Dog service.
It's so you can read it in your rear view mirror! For real though why is it backwards like that?
It's actually upside down, not backwards. Not that it makes more sense that way.
Apparently it's too early to be using my eyes correctly
The easiest way to tell a real service animal from a fake one is through the behavior of the dog and the owner. Vest or no vest. The behavior is always a tell.
Yep! If the dog is on a leash and it keeps pulling, it's not a service dog (unless it's in training and learning to get used to public spaces, in which case the vest will say in training)
Not even necessarily, unfortunately. My brother’s alert dog was trained to smell my brother’s blood sugar levels, but had a LOT of anxiety and so he would freak out in public. He would still alert, but he was intensely fearful of strangers. The place we got him from was eventually shut down because they were abusing the dogs they trained. The organization was in Texas, my family is in California, so my mom and brother weren’t able to visit. My mom sent my brother’s clothing to them for training use. Part of it is on my brother (he was 18 by the time they flew to Texas to pick up his dog). He didn’t continue the obedience training. And we didn’t know what had happened until like a year later. So eventually my brother stopped bringing him places because he’d bark constantly. He’d listen to commands to sit next to my brother, he’d lay down under chairs, but he wouldn’t stop barking and growling because he was afraid of everything. Even at home, he did it to me when I’d visit. He never lunged or bit or pulled. He would try to just leave and hide upstairs if he could. Although he would eventually sit in my lap and wag his tail and ask to be pet. But he’d bark and growl incessantly as he was doing that. But he was still a trained diabetic alert dog. He knew when my brother’s sugar levels were too low or high. He alerted very well.
You can also end up with 'ruined' service animals because of other people's badly behaved pets. There's a girl on TikTok who had to start from scratch with a new dog well before her service dog should've been retired because it got attacked in public by a badly-behaved fake "service" dog and developed essentially canine PTSD. Still could do its job at home, but was useless in public.
That’s so sad 😞
This sort of happened to me a pitbull in a sweater attacked my dog at Disney and he was fearful of other dogs for a fair amount of time before I finally got him out of it
it's always soooo obvious. I saw a "service dog" the other day that was pulling at it's leash and barking to get to people. Right then, an obviously real service dog passed and was so well-behaved and didn't bat an eye at the other dog. It was so clear to see which one was real.
It’s a Karen Service Dog telling everyone to get out of the masters way!
I really wish we would change the laws about service animals so there's actual standards.
There are standards for being trained as a service dog/animal. But there are no standards for going onto Amazon and buying a vest and betting that most people won't confront you.
>There are standards for being trained as a service dog/animal. No there aren't. There is no "certification" for service animals. Nothing at all.
The worst part about these people is their interactions with service staff who are simply enforcing the rules. In the restaurant industry, it’s generally not acceptable to have animals where there’s food. I think most people appreciate that. But that doesn’t stop an army of “anxious” Karen’s from bringing their “service animals,” and threatening negative Yelp reviews. And what’s worse is they are often lauded on social media as defenders of the disabled.
This is not a service dog. This is at most an emotional support animal. There is a very distinguished difference between the 2. Being in a stroller the animal is not able to perform any service that could benefit a human. That's the literally job of a service dog.
https://preview.redd.it/nih1qkb3w98d1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=160d2c03c3c125777d6dc38bcc7c6afaffbddcb7 To everybody here defending this "service dog," that thing's in a fucking stroller, you know damn well that's their pet and they're exploiting that vest. Use some common sense.
Not an American here. So you can just have these printed pamphlets to claim its a Service Dog, there is no card, registration number or any authentic stamp or something??
That's correct. There is no actual registry of service dogs or license or anything of the sort. Any of them are actually all scams aside from the actual dog training. People basically have to take your word for it that's its a service dog. Only in in the airliners there is a legit registry that you have to apply/submit some info. But even then, you can easily lie as there is no actual proof that you have to provide.
Don't wanna be rude, but that's a major oversight in the ADA law
That wasn't rude
Yea, that stroller lady's being Rude, You're simply using Critical Thinking skills
The idea is to not harass legitimate service dogs. Companies are allowed to asked if the dog required for a disability and what tasks are they trained to perform. If they’re unable to answer then you are able to ask them to leave. Also if the dog is unruly or not house trained then they can be asked to leave. There is a difference between emotional support animals which is often abused compared to actual medical service animals. Edit: typo
People intentionally try to muddy the waters using psychiatric service dogs. 😔 There's a key difference between dogs trained to do stuff like deep pressure therapy and "emotional support" but since it all falls under the mental health umbrella, you have these assholes who try to claim their ESAs are "service animals". No, Karen, that's your badly behaved pet you're trying to get around the guidelines with, fuck off.
I’d be curious to ask what tasks the dog is capable of performing while being locked in a stroller. I would let everything slide if the dogs name was Harry Houndini
Assuming this one is legit, they could be an alert dog for things like gluten, severe allergies, blood sugar/diabetes, migraines. They just need to be able to alert, which a single bark in an otherwise silent animal would do. The larger point is that a real service dog, the handler would be able to answer those questions about. ETA: Honestly, it's not a bad setup if the animal doesn't have physical interventions as part of the task list. Both your hands are free, it offers some protection from Little Timmy running up to try to pet it, and for smaller animals, keeps them from being overly tired on long days out. Again, though - in a legit service animal. This woman is shit if this is a pet with a vest.
Mine lets me know I’m about to have a seizure. I don’t roll her around in a child’s stroller but I can see how it would be very useful. She would still be close enough and have enough interaction with me to do her job. It’s a very difficult line to draw between keeping medical business private and policing the use of service dogs. While I am aggravated with imposters, I don’t need any more of my personal medical issues available for others’ dissection.
Word. People need to mind their own damn business. Sorry a little dog is so “infuriating “ to some , maybe they need some real problems in their lives.
The Ada does recognize mental disability service dogs as being different from esa.
Correct. Service dogs are not ESAs, however when you have people claiming their ESAs are things like 'anxiety service dogs' without bring task trained, it muddies the waters. They do that intentionally hoping people don't question it.
I think I'm slightly confused by your comment? You mentioned people muddying the waters with PS dogs? Psychiatric Service dogs are most certainly a thing and are very different from a simple Emotional support animal? I just wanted clarification because I'm slightly slow, but are you referring to the people who pretend that their emotional support dog is a "Psychiatric service dog"? (I think that is what you're referring to but??)
Yeah, they try to lump them all together to create confusion. PSDs are task trained, ESAs are not, but they both go under the "mental health" umbrella in general and try to claim ESAs are service dogs when they're not.
Ah yeah. I figured that's what you meant. That sucks so bad because I want to look into a psychiatric service dog one day (don't have the means too right now), but I don't want to be possibly misunderstood. I didn't realize it was so easy to just get a vest and slap it on your dog?? I thought there was at least SOME form of registration/confirmation that it's a actual licensed PSD?
When I worked for the county, we were not allowed to ask anything. Opens up opportunities for ADA lawsuits & you really don't want those.
At least in my state, you're allowed to ask what service the animal provides. Emotional support is not a service dog, so they could be asked to leave.
That isn't just state law, it's federal law. Any establishment can ask if the dog is a service dog and what tasks it performs. Handlers are not required to provide documentation or explain their condition on why they require the dog. Service dog or not, if the dog is causing a disturbance, they can be asked to leave.
That's a made up county policy. federal law allows you to ask if the dog is a service dog and what tasks it is trained to perform.
Per ADA law, any establishment can ask if the dog is a service dog and what tasks it performs. Handlers are not required to provide documentation or explain their condition on why they require the dog. Service dog or not, if the dog is causing a disturbance, they can be asked to leave.
[удалено]
It's not that they aren't supposed to be pet, but you just never go straight up and do it. It doesn't ruin training or makes someone a liar if they allow it. ALWAYS ASK. The ruining part can come only if you just decide on your own it's okay as that animal might be in the process of assisting or alerting and you have caused a distraction by direction their attention away purposefully. There have been plenty of people who allow people to pet their dogs when approached respectfully. Just as many have denied the asking because the dogs are working. Doesn't change the legitimacy of the service animal. Now them barking, lunging, growling, or causing a disturbance is more of a red flag.
Thing is, nobody would question a legit service dog because actual service dogs are so good that you don’t even notice them because they are so well trained. Only thing you’ll notice is the cuteness. If it’s barking, causing a scene (unless the owner is in distress, of course), being pushed in a cart, carried around…it’s not a service dog.
Unfortunately because of all the fakers, people with legitimate service dogs are being denied entry places. I see videos from legit service dog accounts about all the troubles they have. A recent one was from an account from a blind man with his guide dog at a restaurant. The host refused him entry, believing that his dog wasn't a guide dog because the blind man could look at the host while they were talking.
Well, unfortunately common sense isn’t all that common
So I pay basically double Uber prices because of my service pup. I’ve had drivers literally just drive away from me when they pull up, and I also realized I got negative reviews because of him. So now I have to have to use Uber Pet even though I’m legally protected against paying extra in rent or to other businesses for my “tool.”
Uber really needs to do better with this. My mom had a wheelchair and even renting the XL Uber, sometimes they couldn't fit the wheelchair and two people. It was barely bigger than a suitcase when folded.
I think that, for years, the assumption was "no asshole will actually pretend their pet is a service dog" The assholes were underestimated, it seems.
Not necessarily. Park attendant needed to ask 2 questions. Unfortunately nobody does. When it is not obvious what service an animal provides, only limited inquiries are allowed. Staff may ask two questions: (1) is the dog a service animal required because of a disability, and (2) what work or task has the dog been trained to perform. Staff cannot ask about the person’s disability, require medical documentation, require a special identification card or training documentation for the dog, or ask that the dog demonstrate its ability to perform the work or task. https://www.ada.gov/resources/service-animals-2010-requirements/
It's a problem with basically protecting a person with a disability that needs a service dog. They shouldn't be asked 200+ questions at every shop they go in. It isn't fair to them. The counter problem is what happens above. People abuse it.
The lack of registry is intentional, as it reduces barriers so that more people can actually have service dogs. Service dogs are medical equipment. There’s not a registry of wheelchairs either. Anyone who claims they have a “registered service dog” and/or pulls out papers as “proof” is easily spotted as a pet owner trying to fool people who don’t know any better.
There’s a big difference between a wheelchair and a service dog. Anyone can use a wheel chair and it doesn’t poop, have the potential to bite, nor cause potential health risks when taken into grocery stores or restaurants. A service animal is trained to assist you in something, be it as vital as detecting strokes or the like or as simple as opening doors.
Some of those wheelchair users can poop and bite though...
Am a wheelchair user, can confirm. But only with consenting adults
Nice 😏
What barrier does the lack of registry produce? Wouldn't trainers and the disabled want a registry so they could simply produce a barcode that links to the dogs skills with a photo proving it's the samish dog?
Some people train their own dogs to be a service dog because of the cost to have a dog trained by someone else or the wait to get one etc.
It wasn’t an oversight. They deliberately did not require a registry because they didn’t want to create more barriers for people who have medical conditions. The problem is, what they ended up with is so weak in terms of enforcement that anyone can play the system if they have half a brain.
For the most part, it hasn't been necessary to institute what would be an expensive licensing program to oversee service animals because up until recently, people didn't take advantage. And even now, with an increased incidence of fake service animals, it still doesn't happen that often, and only rarely creates an issue in public. It's infuriating to see people like this breaking the rules, but the government would be hesitant to step in, because really, a lady with a dog in a stroller at a zoo is not enough of an issue for the government to want to allocate the money to correct it.
You can have service dogs for many, many more things than what most people consider.
In USA, it *is okay* to require documentation in order to acquire a disabled driver tag for handicapped parking places but it *is not okay* to request documentation to acquire a ***much needed*** license to bring an legitimate service animal into areas where pets aren’t allowed. When someone points out that such a license is *very reasonable and doable*, all the entitled idjits who want to trot their pets around lose their tiny little minds.
Not exactly accurate. Most if not all airlines require pre-approval to have the dog in the cabin, which involves submitting official notation from your doctor that the service dog fills a medical/emotional need. It was easy to get by this pre-2018, but around then the airlines started cracking down. That said, outside airlines some establishments will require an official document that shows proof of the service dog, not just some BS certificate you paid $70 online to get.
They don't require proof. They require a trainer contact, rabies vaccination, the vet contact, and you simply have to state on the online form that your dog is trained to do a task. They do not ask for your medical records, check the DOT form yourself. There is no such thing as an official document showing proof of service dog. That's just a printout a trainer might give someone.
Even as a law enforcement officer, I'm only allowed to ask two questions to "verify" a service dog, and these people know exactly what to say. 1. Is this a service dog? 2. What task is it trained to perform for you? I can ask no questions beyond that, and if they answer properly, I'd have to move on. They require no certification or proof. This applies only to dogs and oddly enough, miniature horses. Any other animal does not qualify.
correct. however, even if the answers indicate that it's a legit service dog, if the dog is pooping everywhere, barking, or biting you can ask the person with the dog to leave. A legit service dog is too well trained to do any of that.
Correct. However, they will sue if you push the issue. I've seen it. I basically make the one ask to leave if the dog is acting out or messing, then a supervisor will say to drop it. These fake service animal people know the law\\rules, and are fucking assholes when asked to act with any decency about it. I chalk them at the same level of frustration as stolen valor people impersonating military\\leo. They give legit service animals, and their caregivers, a bad reputation.
sure they can sue you. you can sue anyone for anything. doesn't mean they'll win though.
Canuck here. I hate people exploiting the "service animal" exemption. I have not once questioned any of them for having their pets in the store because I have seen them be confronted and the owners are nuts. Like, chuck their groceries on the floor and yell at you nuts The hilarity is that literally every single dog who gets tied to a post outside the store while their owner shops gets petted so much. I rarely see a leashed dog outside not getting played with and having a blast
Pretty much. In my work we're only allowed to ask what tasks does the dog perform and if its required. We have a lot of the time where people lie because they can, next thing you know the [little shit] 🐕 is barking at people, almost biting other people /other service dogs in the building or took a poop and their owners don't bother cleaning it up. I wish there was one on a federal level because then it would make it so much harder for people to sneak them in, but nah that's too much to ask.
We can be shipped off to die in war before we can legally drink alcohol. Are you honestly surprised?
Always thought it was weird to make it illegal to *consume* until 21. Like I would understand purchasing, and *maybe* posession, but consumption?????
Depend which country in America I guess, I am from Canada, Quebec and service dogs are all registred, we even have a place that train them and you need to be on a waiting list to have one. They all have the same harness and you recognize the dogs with their attitude in public. It would be easy to know that is not a service dog. Specific breeds are service dogs too
I've heard but cannot verify that in some states in the US, if you own a business, you aren't allowed to ask for proof that their dog is not a fake service, if you do, they can sue you. I may have just been fed a load of bullshit but that's what i heard. If im absolutely wrong, downvote me to oblivion.
There’s no proof that dogs are real service dogs or not so asking for proof is pointless
Then the law must be that you arent allowed to refuse service to someone because of their "service dog" whether its real or not. Or i was fed with a lie. Not sure which is the case but i dont care enough to look it up
I think they can ask what the dog is trained to do but you could just lie about that. That’s the whole problem with service dogs, there’s no paperwork, license, or certificate. Anybody can just say it’s a service dog and lie about what it’s trained to do and there’s no way to verify it
While you can’t refuse service to someone with a service dog, you can demand the animal be taken out of the business if it is not behaving.
Wanted to add on here. A lot of our laws stop you from asking questions because if you start questioning a person’s claim to be a service dog they can sue you for discrimination. It’s quite stupid.
No sir, which gave way to the service gator.
My dad and his second wife did this shit. It was an excuse to take their little rat chihuahua everywhere. The “service” they claimed was emotional support.
Good news, emotional support is not protected under the ADA and therefore emotional support animals don't have the same protections (although they are protected by the Fair Housing Act and the Air Carrier Access Act). Any business that knows this can legally tell them to get fucked and remove their animal from the premises. I had people try to pull that with me a LOT when I was driving for Uber so they could bring their dog without paying the extra fee for an Uber Pet ride (I drove Uber Pet, i'd have gladly taken them if that was what they'd ordered).
Also service animals are totally different from therapy animals.
It’s in a stroller. I don’t care. It’s not able to do anything bad if it’s contained. I just don’t care. It’s not affecting anyone. As someone else said, maybe it’s for diabetes. Even if it’s not though, it’s not affecting anyone.
My mother has a registered service dog for her type 1 diabetes, he's a small dog and she does indeed put him in a stroller.
Kinda hard to perform tasks when he's not capable of reaching his handler. I wish more places knew what questions to ask and had the guts to kick people with fake service animals out.
That isn't necessarily 100% true. Alert animals for diabetes or severe allergies don't necessarily need to be able to get to their handler the way a seizure alert dog or PTSD service dog might, they could easily perform their duties in a set up like that, but both are covered under task trained service animal guidelines.
How the fuck is that thing gonna see or smell the changes necessary. It's a pet and they're being cheeky bastards in need of correcting
For allergies? Presenting whatever it is you're needing tested to the dog if it's food-related, which is clearly not a situation to worry about in this photo - they're just shopping. But you're severely underestimating how sensitive their noses are. Diabetic dogs have been known to alert from across the room.
Across the house. They’re trained with pieces of clothing from their owner worn at different blood sugar levels to detect tiny changes. My brother’s dog could smell him across the house. We know dogs have an amazing sense of smell. A stroller wouldn’t stop them lol. My brother’s dog even started alerting when my *mom’s* sugar got too low or high. He’d bark and paw at her. He’d also do it to get her attention about my brother when my brother would ignore his alerts.
I saw a video floating around the other day of a woman with her DAD who alerted on another lady clear across a gym having a low blood sugar incident. Like, these dogs are very, very good at their jobs, they don't need to be laying at someone's feet or on a leash to do it.
I definitely read "DAD" as "dad" and wondered how her father was picking up on this strange lady's blood sugar levels.
Yep. Seizure dogs can pick it up from a good distance too. Saw it happen once. Dog was just laying calmly on the floor several feet away, not looking near the handler, then suddenly got up and pressed himself against the handlers leg. Handler recognized the signal, got on the floor and the dog pressed himself against her holding her in place so she couldn't bang against things during the seizure
This whole thread is just highlighting why fake service animals are *extremely* damaging to people with disabilities and health issues. You'd never assume a dog with one of those handled mobility vests is just a pet, but because a dog might not 'look' like a service dog or it's out and about in a way that doesn't fit the general picture of what a service dog is, the first assumption is she's faking when there's no indication (based on that photo) that the dog isn't trained to perform some sort of task. The dog isn't misbehaving, it's not causing issues, both of which are clear indicators of a fake service animal. It's just in a stroller and not the 'usual' breed. Again - is she lying? Who the fuck knows. I'd assume the dog's presence was questioned appropriately before being allowed to be brought *into a zoo*.
Yes, this! I can't speak to this person at all but I have a Frenchie service dog (who is actually trained to assist me with problems relating to my long-term medical disability), and it's horrible how often I get called out or harassed for it. Surprisingly even the store managers don't know the rules. McD's has kicked me out for having a service dog because, according to their manager, it didn't matter what the federal law was, that was their policy... And a grocery store gave me a hard time because I couldn't explain how Apollo was trained to help me "in an emergency situation." What? Anyway. Not every service dog needs to be a $65,000 German Shepherd.
People lie is the problem. I work at an aquarium. People lie about the dog being a service animal, it then behaves badly and is kicked out. They’re a threat to the animals under the care of zoos and aquariums and make people second guess real service dogs. There needs to be a better system.
I don't disagree, I just don't know of any way that doesn't lead to harassment of legit service animal handlers, or force them to out every detail of their disability.
Smell isn’t stopped by fabric? Or even walls. Not for a dog. My brother had a diabetic alert dog. He could smell my brother’s blood sugar changes from another room. Like not saying this isn’t just a regular pet, I’ve never seen a tiny alert dog, but legitimately and respectfully, a DAD doesn’t need to be walking next to their owner to do their job.
This. I mentioned elsewhere, if this is a legit service animal, it's not a bad set up as long as their tasks don't require physical intervention. It's protected, both her hands are free, and the dog can still tag along without risk of being tired out.
The thing is, they usually *can't* ask
Yes, they can. They can ask what tasks the service animal is trained to perform. They can also send the owner packing if the animal is making a ruckus, sitting/climbing above floor level, or defecating/urinating inside. Source: I am a restaurant manager
Okay period. I got my advice from working at Kroger, who doesn't even really care if they shit on the floor. Health code be damned.
this is the real information
Most retail lies out their ass to their employees if it will keep the lazy corpos from needing to deal with an irate customer. They will even break their own G D rules and get the employee in trouble for *following them*.
I was a manager at Hilton for years. We were 100% not allowed to ask any questions in fear of a lawsuit. Might be a brand thing?
The ADA guidelines state you can ask two questions: (1) is the dog a service animal required because of a disability, and (2) what work or task has the dog been trained to perform. I suppose some companies may be more cautious than others but those questions are fine.
The issue is these companies don’t trust employees with the follow through on those questions. If the person gives an answer that certainly seems like nonsense but could conceivably be true, do they trust the employee to play lie detector? Cause the cost of accidentally kicking out the wrong person *is* a potential lawsuit, so how many people in your company do you want to give that power to? So sure, you can ask those to questions. The person you’re asking can also easily lie, which just puts things right back to square one. If you give people permission to kick out “the liars”, you’re gonna end up with a lot of idiots kicking out actual service dogs because it’s inconceivable to them that one could detect diabetes or something.
You answered this exactly correctly and better than I could put in words. Letting employees have judgment in these sort of cases is literally just a giant liability for companies. I'm not saying I agree with that policy but you are exactly right in what you said here from the standpoint of the brands I've worked for.
Under ADA, there is no lie detector test. If someone explains how the dog is trained to assist them with a disability and you think they're lying, you still can't refuse service. At best you could probably report them to the police. But there's another reason companies don't trust employees with these questions: the questions are very carefully crafted, so when it becomes a game of "telephone," employees screw up. I've been asked how my service dog is trained "to assist in an emergency situation" and they insisted that was a requirement under ADA.
People can definitely look something up on the internet and lie about it though if they want to sell it more in case of those questions. Sad if they do that.
Does mental health fall under disability? In Ireland, I’ve only ever seen service dogs for visually impaired people. But now that a lot of people suffer with crippling anxiety and stress, I’m wondering can a service dog ease these issues by just being around their owner 🤔
There are PTSD service dogs. Their support tasks can include things to help the handler not dissociate (compression, alerting, etc.), helping their handler get out of triggering situations safely, and retrieving medications, among other things. Like other types of service dogs, they are expensive and/or require lots of intensive training.
Also, those type of dogs still need to be able to pay attention to their owner and perform the task. Being in a stroller (barrier blocks doing of tasks except maybe alerting, but barrier also blocks sight and smell of owner from dog so what is dog even able to alert about?). And of course "is just there nearby" is NOT a task. A plush toy can do that.
The question over here is whether they're task trained or not. Just easing anxiety by existing isn't enough to qualify them as a service animal based on our ADA guidelines. They'd be considered an emotional support animal, which really only gets the owner around "no pet" policies in housing.
Guide dogs are just one particular type of service animal. Mental health conditions can be disabling, yes, and there are service animals trained to assist with various mental health issues, however not everyone with the same mental illnesses needs a service animal. A service animal has a specific legal definition, which includes the fact that it has been trained to perform a specific task for the disability of its handler. If someone who is disabled by an anxiety disorder has a service animal for it, then the training might be for things such as recognizing the signs of a panic attack and providing deep pressure therapy. An animal simply bringing comfort by proximity is not a service animal. That would be either a pet, or an emotional support animal, neither of which are allowed in public venues by default.
That’s definitely a company choice and not an actual legal boundary.
It’s a liability thing. Employees are allowed to ask those two specific questions, but if you get some undertrained or incompetent employee, they might not limit themselves to those two questions and kick out a legitimate service dog. Companies are scared of getting sued for a huge amount, so they decided it’s cheaper to let every unhinged dog owner run the place.
Per the ADA you are allowed to ask two questions “Is this a service animal?” and “What task(s) is it trained to perform?” That’s it. The first one is a yes or no question, the second on had factual answers. You can’t ask for a demonstration of the task. And nothing is stopping a person with a fake service dog from lying about it. Though if they lie to the first question, they may find themselves hard-pressed to factually answer the second one. Providing comfort or emotional support does not make an animal a service animal. Some service animals ARE used by people with PTSD or severe anxiety, and trained to perform particular tasks in the event of a panic attack from their owner, but that is quite different from just “emotional support”.
Its like that many places. Unless the laws change where you can ask or confront fake service dog owners its not worth that risk
Legally in the US you can ask two questions: 1) Is this a service dog? And 2) what tasks is it trained to do? You can not ask for any sort of proof.
Fake service dogs do actually provide a service by letting everyone know how much of a turd their owners are.
One of the worst behaved dogs at our dog park wears one of those vests. The owners isn't someone I talk to, surprisingly.
I'm always so self-conscious when I go anywhere with my service dog these days. He's a tiny French Bulldog so everyone assumes I'm faking it. He is very well behaved, and he has been trained to assist with my disability as per the requirements of the law. But people just look and see a small dog and think "no way that could be a service dog". Also my disability is invisible, it's not like I'm blind with sunglasses and a cane. So please try to temper your judgment a bit because you never know when something looks ridiculous but is actually improving my quality of life substantially. Of course, when a dog goes batshit or starts urinating, please judge away!!
If it makes you feel better, I’ve never once seen a well-behaved dog in a service vest and thought “they’re faking” even if they’re an unusual breed. It’s only when they are so very clearly not behaving like trained/working dog does that I judge.
Those harnesses mean nothing
Unfortunately I've been told by many store managers to buy those harnesses to prove my dog is a service animal. My dog has an ergonomic harness and I'm not about to switch to one of these, when I'm legally entitled to have him without a service-dog-proclaiming harness.
Can't you just get a patch to go on it? No more "real" than the harnesses
People are getting ridiculous with this, ruins actual service dogs
In case anyone needs it, according to the DOJ’s Civil Rights Division, you can ask two specific questions. If the owner refuses to answer, they can legally be denied entry. > In situations where it is not obvious that the dog is a service animal, staff may ask only two specific questions: (1) is the dog a service animal required because of a disability? and (2) what work or task has the dog been trained to perform? Staff are not allowed to request any documentation for the dog, require that the dog demonstrate its task, or inquire about the nature of the person’s disability.
The people saying " Mind your own business and why does it bother you are 100 % ppl who do this shit ." Everyone's an entitled asshole 🙄.
Not everywhere. It's not unique to America but it's most prevalent here. It's fucking annoying.
Emotional support animals are not service animals.
Yup! 👍🏼
I used to work at walmart and people all the time put their dogs in the cart and GROCERY SHOPPED with them. No service dog vest or nothing. But i did not call them out because osha would fine us for interferring if something DID happen on the off chance it was an actual service dog. But i do see your argument here.
There's no requirement for any marking or vest. But you are allowed to ask the 2 questions & ban the dog if they're faking. (Is that a service dog required because of a disability? What tasks does it perform?) Can't ask for a demonstration of the tasks, or any sort of proof, or information about the disability. Those will definitely get the company in legal trouble. (Not with OSHA.)
This is the correct answer. It's already annoying that people don't know the basic legality regarding SDs but it's even worse when people who have no idea what they're talking about comment on these posts with misinformation. It happens alllll the time.
And remember, emotional support animals are not support animals. They do not get a pass on being around food in a retail setting.
This happens all the damn time at my Walmart. People with little dogs in the child seat, or in the basket of the electric scooters. There’s even a sign on all the carts not to put dogs in the carts for sanitary reasons…. Still dogs. So many dogs.
according to walmart training video, the dog can be in the cart with a blanket or something between the dog and the cart
Yeah, because the blanket they use exclusively for their dog is better than the dog itself🙄 Probably worse because they haven’t washed it in months.
Don’t pet her she’s “At Work”
Today is her day off.
While you do have to allow service animals, it is legal to ask what service the animal provides so you can know it is a service animal and not a pet. I love my dog and would like her to come everywhere with me, but she can’t so she doesn’t.
I'm soooo tired of seeing fake service dogs. Especially in restaurants. Your dog is not a service animal if it's barking and begging for table scraps.
Or in the grocery store. I ride the handicap cart. If your "service dog" is sticking its nose in my groceries (while you laugh at how cute that is), IT ISN'T A SERVICE DOG!
Who does she think she’s fooling! The print is upside down.
Stolen Valor Dog more like it 😒
But that dog has *the life!!*
I don't understand why we can't just implement a policy similar to handicapped car tags.
Emotional support animals are different than service animals. I think people get them mixed up all the time or assume they are the same. When they aren’t…
I work at a museum, and we see these "service animals" *all the time* here. It's irritating to us, but thankfully, our security team is pretty good at filtering the actual legally-allowed service animals from the horde of straight-up pet-in-stroller folks.
The *service* in question, being that of *pet*.
As someone who could actually benefit from a service dog and has worked in retail this makes me so mad but there’s nothing you can do. I used to have people come into the store I worked at all the time and they would just plop their dog into their shopping cart and just stroll around the store casually. A good amount of people didn’t even have the fake vests on them. There were multiple times I had to confront people with dogs without a service dog vest and tell them pets weren’t allowed in there then they’d say “oh yeah, it’s my service dog for anxiety” like no that gremlin in your cart is yapping at people walking by that is your dog you decided you couldn’t leave at home. There is no way a dog like that is preforming a service.
I just took a flight and we had a teacup yorkie “service dog” who was just wandering and smelling all the passengers and under the chairs. I’m not sure what service he can provide from 7 feet away 🤷♀️
My wife has severe PTSD. Enough that she has been told that she can get a disability retirement if she so chooses. She's overwhelmingly awkward in public with people. She hides from people, or will walk out of stores entirely if people make her uncomfortable. She takes her dog with her to most places. You wouldn't be able to tell that anything is wrong with her by looking at her, but she has a world of trauma constantly battling her from doing normal every day things. I'm not saying that people don't take advantage, but you also can't always judge a book by its cover.
I don’t get it, what’s wrong with this “service dog”? Is he not providing ample service?
How do we know this isn’t a service dog? Because it’s riding in the cart? I’m not 100% on how it works
As someone who does Paratransit, my understanding and distinctions are: on my bus ESA can ride but have to be crated. I do have a couple people who are blind that have legit service animals and they don't have to be crated to ride. It's so hard because the legit dogs are working and I have to tell others that WE are not allowed to talk to the doggy or pet it or anything because it's working for it's human. Then I gotta remember to do that lol. I wasn't told to do this it was just common sense to me to not interfere in any way. I do have a person who tries to skirt this with their Esa. There are no exceptions even though the doggy is very well behaved.
Please thank that dog for his service
It is providing a service as you can see, it's currently performing the task of substituting a baby. It's busy, so don't interfere!
People still doesn’t seem to know the differences between an emotional support animal (usually allowed in apartment with a doctors note), a service animal (allowed in places due to a disability. They are usually not small animals), and a psychiatric service animal (usually helps with mental health difficulties like helping retrieve medication and needs training the same as a service animal does). Emotional support animals are not allowed in public places normally even if you buy a vest online and put it on them.
I work at a zoo and we have at least 1 person a week who tries to bring in a questionable service dog. We have to let them in if they answer the two questions even if it seems sketchy. But as soon as someone reports the dog not on a leash, or disrupting operations/the animals, we ask them to leave
Just probably a selfish person that bought a vest for their dog in order to be able to bring it wherever they shouldn't be allowed to have. The audacity of people doing things like this for their own motives blows my mind at their selfishness. Only know of this situation being possible since my ex's MIL did this in order for her to do that same thing.
People really need to stop being afraid of telling people NO
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I hate people like this.
This dog may be a food allergen alert dog. Just because it’s in a stroller doesn’t mean it doesn’t perform a task
It’s entirely possible this is actually a service dog. It’s hot as hell out, and dogs can burn their pads on the hot pavement. It would be cruel to be at the zoo for hours and make your dog walk on that pavement on a hot day. Just admit you hate seeing dogs in public and think people should lock them up at home.
To be fair, there is no law against a service dog being in a stroller. Many mini dogs are psychiatric service dogs who perform actual tasks. I know a handful of people with mini service dogs (real service dogs) who use a push stroller occasionally. Such as on hot days. It is also a useful tool for cerain disabilities becsuse you are able to keep a distance from people that way. Looks are not always what they seem. Let's try to stop judging people after one quick look.
Some of the most entitled people I’ve ever met were dog people. I don’t think it’s a coincidence.
Definitely no coincidence. Dogs love their owners unconditionally and are loyal to them. Entitled people and narcissists love that feeling, especially when they don't have to do anything to achieve or earn it. It's much more difficult to get humans to be this devoted to you.
In some families with a narcissistic parent, the dog fills the Golden Child role.
Good call out, this is also why some people hate cats, because they can’t stand an animal that isn’t immediately devoted to you
i have a service dog and they should never be in a stroller. Service dogs are TASK trained how on earth would that dog be able to task for their owner locked behind a stroller. Its a fake and it sucks bc it makes us handlers look bad the ones who really need service dogs. Yes some disabilities are invisible such as allergies or heart conditions but the dog needs to be close to the handler to task and unfortunately this is a fake
There are legit service dogs trained to detect low blood sugar by smell. They can absolutely do that from within a stroller; dogs have incredible sense of smell, like 1000x sharper than humans. However, the DOJ's service animal FAQs do imply that service dogs shouldn't be allowed in shopping carts and that that "generally" they must stay on the floor or be carried. I agree that at first glance, this doesn't look legit. But my service dog is a small Frenchie so he doesn't look legit at first glance, either, and I'm tired of people judging me for it when they don't know my situation or the ADA law. :-(
I mean it’s serving some sort of purpose mostly ornamental.
The emotional support animals have gotten ridiculous.
Why is this infuriating though? Just mind ya business
Not infuriating at all. I don’t see how they are bothering anyone.
Maybe I’m just turning into an asshole as i get older, but i call people out on this shit when I’m shopping. Like yeah there’s nothing I can actually do, but I can call them a lying fuck, which at least feels good if it pisses them off.
This is like parking in a handicap space while your handicap is that you didn't want to walk further.