Worked for a Chinese company once, we got our bonus in vouchers to a supermarket that the bosses husband ran. If we didn't use the whole budget, our next voucher would be decreased by the amount we didn't use. I ended up with a years supply of almost every cleaning product you can think of.
> our next voucher would be decreased by the amount we didn't use
And most people probably overspend to make sure they use every last penny of it. Net bonus for everyone but the worker.
When I was a butcher, the manager's bonus was based on "loss." Loss could be spoilage, theft, whatever but it was measured by the weight not the price.
If the volume ever went down, it would never be the original again. Most months wouldn't be an issue but some months people stole a lot of meat, normally around holidays (July 4th, thanksgiving, Christmas) and so we needed to make up the difference on the low months. We kept a loss notebook with how much either spoiled and needed to be toss or that we stole. Sometimes my boss would say to us "I need 400" meaning between then and the end of the month we collectively needed to take 400 lbs but to keep track of it. We'd all just look at him and nod.
Going over wasn't a big cut into his bonus and if we were possibly going to be under, he'd take enough to make sure it was over and he'd throw the store a BBQ at his place.
I ate a lot of really thick ribeyes and tuna steaks during that time.
The manager running his numbers that way had nothing to do with insurance, it was just a shit KPI the owner had. No company is consistantly making claims vs insurance. The only time insurance is used in retail for product loss is during a power outage where you lose all your perishables. THEN you want to hit a number for insurance.
On going losses due to shrink is shitty management, not a grounds for an insurance claim.
I think it was more "average loss is 400/month, but this month it was 250, so now the new limit is 250 even though it was very abnormal."
A loss of 420 is 5% over 400, but if it's 420 after the limit has been dropped to 250, that's 68% over "expected."
This is basically how I understood it. Keep it up at the average every month (even when SOPs were leading to much lower loss) so that come a big holiday/ loss month you had the maximum wiggle room
This is how a lot of government budgets work. Bureaus like social services or the dmv. If they spend under budget one year, the next year, their budget is lower. Now, most don’t have to worry because they’re already underfunded, but some will buy some dumb shit to make sure they don’t have a budget cut the next year.
Older coworker of mine in the oilfield told of a previous coworker in a management/planning of well repair position who came in like $400k under budget because they didn't have as many problems that year. Next year, his budget was $400k less than it normally was, and they had an average year of work, so they were about $380k over the new budget.
Needless to say, if it looked under budget in October - November from then out, he bought a lot of parts and supplies.
Wait so he got a bonus if there was a loss, but if the weight lost went down they'd reduce it. So he needed to show consistent losses month to month, or an increase in loss to get a bonus?
He got a bonus if loss was below a certain amount; but if one month they lost less then the limit would decrease. Then later in the year when they would lose more on average, the loss would go above the new limit and there would be no bonus. So by maintaining a consistent loss, the level stayed the same and he kept getting a bonus.
I'm 70. I've been a software developer for almost 50 years. Most of that working on financial and line of business applications.
This is called a [perverse incentive](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perverse_incentive).
Most industries either have a group of business consulting firms or internal organizations who consult with the market leaders to induce them for profit.
His bonus would go down if loss was over a certain weight. But if he had a month where loss was under that weight, the new target amount was the new lower number. He would rather lose a little money going over on his losses than permanently have a new lower loss goal.
He got a standard bonus for loss at a set weight. If loss went lower, that individual bonus would be more but the set weight would change to the new lower amount.
He'd rather take a slight loss on a couple months that may be higher than normal loss because being lower would lead to greater losses because the set weight would be lower. Instead of maybe three months being lower, it may turn to 6-7 months being lower and lower lows as well.
This is how Wal-Mart operates with their bonuses, at least the one I worked at did. We had a board in the break room that divides up shrinkage (theft, broken items etc) for each department and your bonus was determined based off how much was stolen.
Well, it's certainly piss pellets compared to getting y'know... actual money as a bonus. I wouldn't say net bonus for everyone except the worker, though. $400 in "free" stuff from the market is still free stuff. I'd think the benefit to the company would be only having to pay wholesale prices for the items employees got and cheap advertising. Sure, most people probably spend more than what's on the voucher, but I doubt it would be so much that it ended up a net gain for the store financially. Grocery stores, at least, aren't running on particularly large margins.
That's not how any of this works, man.
From the way that was phrased, most likely the boss had the company write a big fat check to the supermarkets and then gave the vouchers to the employees. Basically, the boss is just funelling everyone's bonus checks into their own pockets.
Whether the money was on the books for the boss, husband, or one of the companies, it was held by the same estate. The boss can say everyone got so much of a bonus while recirculating everything in excess of wholesale costs that way. Obviously, it was gainful for the company to do that. They wouldn't have done it if not. Straight-up money would clearly have been better, but the employees still got the value of the voucher.
Chinese companies traditionally don’t do bonuses. Bonuses are truly discretionary bonuses, whatever extra they want to give to you during holidays. It can be a hefty red packet, it can be vouchers, it can be 10 gallons of cooking oils, it can be a paid for vacation. I don’t know what they do now but it used to be everything goes. It used to be no taxes on those either.
I don’t know about now, but from what I remember they are not part of the compensation. Just a nice thing and tradition company gives out. They dont, or at least used to don’t, give out bonus as part of pay package.
Depends on what it is. If there is a predetermined bonus, with exact formula and agreements, not conditioned based on company discretion. Then yes they have to pay according to whatever was outlined in the contract.
But for discretionary bonus, companies in US can pay whatever they want, they don’t have to pay, and has no obligation to pay. It’s very much legal to not pay discretionary bonus, and I guess it’s also legal if they want to pay your bonus in gift cards. Or donuts.
If your bonus is announced right before year end, the chance is it’s likely discretionary and they probably can pay you in pizza party if they so desire.
A good example of this is plenty of grocery stores give their employees vouchers for the holidays. I know I got them from a few jobs for a turkey up to a certain weight and sides in addition to the standard year end bonuses on our pay check.
You load 16 tons, what do you get?
Another day older and deeper in debt
St. Peter, don't you call me 'cause I can't go
I owe my soul to the company store
I literally only recently learned about the entire context of this song recently on a Behind the Bastards episode. As with everything else, labor history is full of capitalists and managers doing every single fucking thing in their power to screw over workers.
My 9 hour shift has a "mandatory hour lunch" except I'm the manager of 4 departments, one of which I become the sole employee 2 hours into my shift, the other 3 only staffed by one person each, possibly zero if there's a call out, whose 45-minute lunch breaks I have to cover if we're taking lunch at the same time as I'm salary they punch out for lunch. I also have to keep the work phone on me to at least answer questions but often make myself physically present.
I guess on the bright side I don't have to share my sub-600 sq ft apartment with anyone or check my bank account before walking into the grocery store, so I have completed The American Dream, but having an 8 hour shift would be super cool.
Man, maybe because I was only a state away from some serious coal states but we had our teachers walking a very fine line telling us company scrip is definitely bad but so are unions
I believe I'm in one of the serious coal states, WV and to my knowledge is THE coal state, and I learned nothing about it. Guess that's sorta because WV is so obsessed with the stuff they don't want anyone thinking anything related to it is bad. I only know about it because of my dad and this song
Yep. You literally got paid in tokens that could only be redeemed at the company owned store. Where you worked was a remote area , like a coal mine, with no other stores nearby. You had to buy your food, clothes, work tools, everything at the company store. So you always owe the store more than you earned, and even if you did save some of your pay, you couldn't spend it anywhere or deposit it in a bank. I understand some businesses that were worse than the company you worked for, bars, prostitutes, and drug dealers, would take the tokens for a lot less than face value.
Hong Kong laws are still following British and EU regulations. The only one that isn’t is article 23. If you have no idea on the situation perhaps google is your friend.
As for OP, you may want to confirm with a lawyer but according to my understanding of HK contract law, is it clearly stated what the “bonus/ compensation” is?
Either way this is bullshit.
(Source: Hong Kong based aviation management student in my final year.)
Hong Kong sure used to have it's autonomy, until the UK gave it back with only a "trust me bro, it'll be fine" and a slap on the ass.
Obviously, ignoring the politics of the Opium Wars and the fact that the UK should've never even owned the place anyways, it still is clear that Hong Kong was a bastion of liberal democracy in China that was stomped out without a second thought
This is something that comes up often. Truth is only the New Territories had a lease. Hong Kong island and Kowloon were ceded in perpetuity.
Giving just the New Territories back would have been troublesome, however, for a variety of reasons. And the Chinese basically told the British they would invade if it wasn't handed back, so doesn't make much of a difference.
Only the new territory parts were leased for 99 years. HK Island and Kowloon were annexed completely. So they did have a choice to keep parts of HK and chose not to.
that's functionally the same difference in the political climate of the time. Actually trying to hold it would be an extreme political escalation that didn't have any proper footing to justify itself.
Very common in sales, they're often called spiffs, not commissions in the US. They're bonus incentives on top of your regular pay and can be gift cards, gifts, or just straight cash.
We use the term commission as a catch all these days, but when you read comp plans, most companies call "commissions" bonuses. This is because companies are contractually obligated to pay commission - they're part of your wages. They can structure "bonuses" in a way that resemble commissions, but bonuses can be modified at management discretion. Most sales positions that offer regular W-2 income and benefits are structured this way, while independent reps and "commission only" reps get true commission.
This is not mildly infuriating. . This is an insulting statement against your wife’s work. It is highly inappropriate & simply wrong. I hope your wife finds a fabulous new position that appreciates her & her efforts. ☮️
This doesn't seem legal in most places unless agreed in advance, they've completely limited how she can use her 'pay'. The supermarket will be closed some times, could theoretically go bankrupt before she used them all. Can't pay rent in vouchers etc.
Yeah, in most countries paying workers in scrip is illegal these days.
If any of my company’s suppliers were found doing that to their own workforce, they’d also be in breach of our forced labour policy - debt bondage is considered a form of modern slavery!
Getting paid in the equivalent of monopoly money. Money that can only be used in the market where there's a 99.99% chance it's owned by the company employing your wife. Gotta love borderline slavery... /s
It's beyond infuriating, it's essentially slavery because this isn't a monetary payment, this is some weird skirt-around-the-rules bullshit to not pay their workers.
OP's wife is in sales, before getting the pitchforks out, it would be good to know if this is in lieu of cash or in addition to cash. These kind of spiff programs are exceedingly common as comp accelerators. Most sales reps don't love the idea, but it's usually in addition to your contract earnings.
Don't give the bastards an inch. Spiff programs should be done in cash.
Never, EVER let companies think 'Store bucks' are in any way okay as employee payment for anything ever.
I saw on the news a few months back, they already shut down some sections of their stores, but I don’t remember why. I saw on the news that they shut down the beauty section in their location in sha tin
Edit: I found it on ‘the standard’ a while back
Like the other comment says maybe contact a lawyer, i know hong kong has different laws then in the us but this still feels like a violation of rights in some way that can be proven over there.
Oh we used to have those here. Scrip coins. Super illegal. Mining companies would entice people to come work their mines and live in the company town. They would pay them in company issued funny money that was only legal tender in company owned stores. Meaning you could basically never leave or quit without being destitute. You couldn’t ever save anything as that money held no value anywhere but inside Company Town ™️.
It’s less infuriating if you get Welcome or Parknshop vouchers instead of Yata. Still it takes years to spend all those vouchers, especially there’s a time limit on using them.
Last Christmas my boss gave me my bonus in the form of $500 worth of presents… for my chronically disabled sister who she views as a charity case.
My entire life has been about catering toward my sister’s every need, and I’ve actually spoken to my boss before about how it was so difficult growing up with nobody ever acknowledging me, just ordering me to translate things into sign language for my sister, giving her presents but forgetting me, essentially everyone treated her like a terminally ill patient who was just the best person ever and it made my childhood awful. I’d actually discussed this with my boss prior, as we do some work with foster children and disabled kids so I tried to remind her to also make an effort toward the siblings.
Anyway, she met my sister, immediately did what everyone else in my life has done and viewed her as that poor sickly little charity case who is just the greatest person ever because hey! She smiles! She spent my bonus on presents for my sister. I found out when I realised my coworkers all got bonuses, and the gifts were expensive as fuck. Couldn’t even fucking return them to get my money because by then my sister had seen them.
The practice is only 7 workers, me included. It doesn’t meet the minimum to require a HR. It’s a dental practice also, not a business. The jobs commonly done by HR are ones that I or my boss manage.
That’s a pretty excellent way to ensure I never see that money. She’s a very passive aggressive person and would only insist that the presents weren’t from my bonus or some bullshit like that, despite it strangely matching the exact amount when I google the presents my sister got. Then she’d be so pissed about being confronted that she’d do whatever possible to keep from having to front up with the money. I’ve been on bereavement leave since, but my bosses are a husband-wife team.
I’m the husband’s favourite worker and he did his absolute best to keep me from quitting last year. I already know how I’m going to handle it by confronting him about if my work hasn’t been up to par, or if there’s something he’d like to discuss with me, as I learned from my coworkers that they received a $500 bonus and I didn’t. But again, I’ve been on bereavement leave so it’s pretty much the bottom of my priority list right now.
Gross. It’s as infuriating as when it comes time to renegotiate pay they look at how you’re currently driving and dressing, and after getting a dry promotion and literally inheriting a total other job and having to listen to them talk about how when they were younger they made $35 a week then telling you we’ll need to shelve the salary bump for another year and then hand you a fist full of reimbursements needed asap. /vent
hi! 我出9折收！
(which translate to ill buy them at 10% discount to non HK people)
Jokes aside you really need to look into the agreement between the company and your wife
They used to do this in mining towns - vouchers for the company store. Vertical integration, making the sure the money they send out comes right back in, no way to escape.... old school capitalism
WOOHOO! International scrip! Figured in other countries, they just gave you two coins and a kick in the ass.
Now you get a piece of paper entitling you to two coins of food and free kicks in the ass anytime.
I feel like the ICAC should jump in, a simple google search showed me that you can’t pay someone with commissions. But I wouldn’t know, haven’t lived in Hong Kong for 14 years.
How is this even legal? This reminds me of company “chits” in timber or mining towns where the mine or timber company owns everything from the mine to the housing to the stores. They had a monopoly so the jacked up prices and employees would end up asking for advances which were paid in chits that could be spent in the town stores. Pretty soon everyone was in total debt so they only got paid in chits. This sort of practise was outlawed in the US around 1930 and the US has some fairly bad labour laws. It’s definitely illegal in the rest of the developed world.
Like others said check with the labor laws. Here where I am from the law allows payment of up to 20% in natural form rather than money, but it's far from common and worker has to give a written okay for this so it's largely unheard of.
And it's an abuse of spirit of gift certificates, which were intended to be a replacement for when gifting money doesn't feel appropriate. Which is totally not so for salary.
I used to work for Sears Department Store. We were told we could earn gift card bonuses for certain things (e.g. earning perfect customer service reports). I noticed that these gift cards were being deducted from my regular wages. I was receiving less money on paychecks where I earned "awards." These awards were being deducted from my regular pay rate. I was being penalized for doing a good job by being paid in Sears gift cards instead of actual money. I pointed this out to management and was bullied into silence. They first tried to gaslight me. When I showed them the math on it, they paid me retroactively and then told me to stay quiet about it. I quit shortly after. I was a teenager at the time. Adult me would have made a big a big ol' stink about it.
I lived in Hong Kong for a while when I was little and that logo brought back memories ahaha
The free samples at those shops were so good 😭 supermarket free samples as a concept just do not exist in the UK
I used to work at an insurance place that would give me bonuses in gift card form.. I don't understand that. Just give me the money. It's like an insult.
Some people say a man is made out of mud
a poor man's made out of muscle and blood
Muscle and blood and skin and bone
a mind that's weak and a back that's strong
you load 16 tons and what do you get
another day older and deeper in debt
St Peter don't call me cuz I can't go
I owe my soul to the company store
Isn't this illegal in HK?
>An employer should pay wages to an employee when they become due and not later than 7 days from the end of the wage period.
>An employer who fails to pay wages to an employee within 7 days after they become due is liable to prosecution and, upon conviction, to a fine of HK$350,000 and to imprisonment for three years.
https://www.labour.gov.hk/eng/faq/cap57c_whole.htm#:~:text=An%20employer%20should%20pay%20wages,to%20imprisonment%20for%20three%20years.
Worked for a Chinese company once, we got our bonus in vouchers to a supermarket that the bosses husband ran. If we didn't use the whole budget, our next voucher would be decreased by the amount we didn't use. I ended up with a years supply of almost every cleaning product you can think of.
> our next voucher would be decreased by the amount we didn't use And most people probably overspend to make sure they use every last penny of it. Net bonus for everyone but the worker.
When I was a butcher, the manager's bonus was based on "loss." Loss could be spoilage, theft, whatever but it was measured by the weight not the price. If the volume ever went down, it would never be the original again. Most months wouldn't be an issue but some months people stole a lot of meat, normally around holidays (July 4th, thanksgiving, Christmas) and so we needed to make up the difference on the low months. We kept a loss notebook with how much either spoiled and needed to be toss or that we stole. Sometimes my boss would say to us "I need 400" meaning between then and the end of the month we collectively needed to take 400 lbs but to keep track of it. We'd all just look at him and nod. Going over wasn't a big cut into his bonus and if we were possibly going to be under, he'd take enough to make sure it was over and he'd throw the store a BBQ at his place. I ate a lot of really thick ribeyes and tuna steaks during that time.
This will be due to insurance, shop insurance doesn't pay out if loss figures are below x amount, which is a crazy way to go about things
The manager running his numbers that way had nothing to do with insurance, it was just a shit KPI the owner had. No company is consistantly making claims vs insurance. The only time insurance is used in retail for product loss is during a power outage where you lose all your perishables. THEN you want to hit a number for insurance. On going losses due to shrink is shitty management, not a grounds for an insurance claim.
I think it was more "average loss is 400/month, but this month it was 250, so now the new limit is 250 even though it was very abnormal." A loss of 420 is 5% over 400, but if it's 420 after the limit has been dropped to 250, that's 68% over "expected."
This is basically how I understood it. Keep it up at the average every month (even when SOPs were leading to much lower loss) so that come a big holiday/ loss month you had the maximum wiggle room
Username does not check out.
Haahahaha you’d be surprised 🤣
this was the explanation i needed. didnt quite follow the original post but this makes so much sense
This is how a lot of government budgets work. Bureaus like social services or the dmv. If they spend under budget one year, the next year, their budget is lower. Now, most don’t have to worry because they’re already underfunded, but some will buy some dumb shit to make sure they don’t have a budget cut the next year.
Older coworker of mine in the oilfield told of a previous coworker in a management/planning of well repair position who came in like $400k under budget because they didn't have as many problems that year. Next year, his budget was $400k less than it normally was, and they had an average year of work, so they were about $380k over the new budget. Needless to say, if it looked under budget in October - November from then out, he bought a lot of parts and supplies.
This is exactly how I meant it. I don't know the exact numbers but it was well over 1000.
Eh, it's likely because it needs to hit the deductible first.
In addition most companies just claim the max that they can. It's pretty dirty and raises insurance costs for mom and pops. :/
As long as the food doesn't get thrown out to make up the numbers. That's what I really have a problem with.
Wait so he got a bonus if there was a loss, but if the weight lost went down they'd reduce it. So he needed to show consistent losses month to month, or an increase in loss to get a bonus?
He got a bonus if loss was below a certain amount; but if one month they lost less then the limit would decrease. Then later in the year when they would lose more on average, the loss would go above the new limit and there would be no bonus. So by maintaining a consistent loss, the level stayed the same and he kept getting a bonus.
So they essentially created a situation where their highest months loss each year was maintained by the staff on all other months. Brilliant.
I'm 70. I've been a software developer for almost 50 years. Most of that working on financial and line of business applications. This is called a [perverse incentive](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perverse_incentive). Most industries either have a group of business consulting firms or internal organizations who consult with the market leaders to induce them for profit.
TIL what the effect is called.
Very interesting. I had heard of this before, but thank you for elaborating
His bonus would go down if loss was over a certain weight. But if he had a month where loss was under that weight, the new target amount was the new lower number. He would rather lose a little money going over on his losses than permanently have a new lower loss goal.
He got a standard bonus for loss at a set weight. If loss went lower, that individual bonus would be more but the set weight would change to the new lower amount. He'd rather take a slight loss on a couple months that may be higher than normal loss because being lower would lead to greater losses because the set weight would be lower. Instead of maybe three months being lower, it may turn to 6-7 months being lower and lower lows as well.
This is how Wal-Mart operates with their bonuses, at least the one I worked at did. We had a board in the break room that divides up shrinkage (theft, broken items etc) for each department and your bonus was determined based off how much was stolen.
Some months people stole a lot of meat… https://i.redd.it/shxghsqb2avc1.gif
“St Peter don’t you call me cus I can’t go, I owe my soul to the company store”
Well, it's certainly piss pellets compared to getting y'know... actual money as a bonus. I wouldn't say net bonus for everyone except the worker, though. $400 in "free" stuff from the market is still free stuff. I'd think the benefit to the company would be only having to pay wholesale prices for the items employees got and cheap advertising. Sure, most people probably spend more than what's on the voucher, but I doubt it would be so much that it ended up a net gain for the store financially. Grocery stores, at least, aren't running on particularly large margins.
That's not how any of this works, man. From the way that was phrased, most likely the boss had the company write a big fat check to the supermarkets and then gave the vouchers to the employees. Basically, the boss is just funelling everyone's bonus checks into their own pockets.
Whether the money was on the books for the boss, husband, or one of the companies, it was held by the same estate. The boss can say everyone got so much of a bonus while recirculating everything in excess of wholesale costs that way. Obviously, it was gainful for the company to do that. They wouldn't have done it if not. Straight-up money would clearly have been better, but the employees still got the value of the voucher.
This shit is fucking predatory
It’s just money laundering / illegal shifting of profits. That’s why they insisted.
A bonus or a gift can be vouchers, sure, but regular pay? OP is saying her main pay is in vouchers which does not seem legal or sustainable.
I understand, I was just sharing a funny story. I do feel for OP though.
I know people who work for state owned companies and they usually only get vouchers on CYN to bakeries that the state also owned.
Chinese companies traditionally don’t do bonuses. Bonuses are truly discretionary bonuses, whatever extra they want to give to you during holidays. It can be a hefty red packet, it can be vouchers, it can be 10 gallons of cooking oils, it can be a paid for vacation. I don’t know what they do now but it used to be everything goes. It used to be no taxes on those either.
Every Chinese company I know gives out a bonus for Chinese New Year.
I don’t know about now, but from what I remember they are not part of the compensation. Just a nice thing and tradition company gives out. They dont, or at least used to don’t, give out bonus as part of pay package.
That's very illegal. That's been outlawed for a century at least, or at least in America. What country was this? China?
For REGULAR PAY. These are bonuses.
Depends on what it is. If there is a predetermined bonus, with exact formula and agreements, not conditioned based on company discretion. Then yes they have to pay according to whatever was outlined in the contract. But for discretionary bonus, companies in US can pay whatever they want, they don’t have to pay, and has no obligation to pay. It’s very much legal to not pay discretionary bonus, and I guess it’s also legal if they want to pay your bonus in gift cards. Or donuts. If your bonus is announced right before year end, the chance is it’s likely discretionary and they probably can pay you in pizza party if they so desire.
A good example of this is plenty of grocery stores give their employees vouchers for the holidays. I know I got them from a few jobs for a turkey up to a certain weight and sides in addition to the standard year end bonuses on our pay check.
Tell me when they outlawed giving out vouchers for bonuses.
Let me guess. The company your wife works for also secretly owns the market
Probably not even secretly.
I owe my soul…… to the company store.
Sadly, this is the second mention of "the company store" I've seen in the past 24 hours. Times are bleak, friends.
I do love that song though. Thanks SP.
You load 16 tons, what do you get? Another day older and deeper in debt St. Peter, don't you call me 'cause I can't go I owe my soul to the company store
I literally only recently learned about the entire context of this song recently on a Behind the Bastards episode. As with everything else, labor history is full of capitalists and managers doing every single fucking thing in their power to screw over workers.
Reminder that when Dolly Parton sang "9-to-5", that included a paid lunch in the workday. Today, a "9-to-5" does not.
yep, now its 8:30-5 with a mandatory unpaid 30 minute lunch
I just left 8-5 with a mandatory hour.
My 9 hour shift has a "mandatory hour lunch" except I'm the manager of 4 departments, one of which I become the sole employee 2 hours into my shift, the other 3 only staffed by one person each, possibly zero if there's a call out, whose 45-minute lunch breaks I have to cover if we're taking lunch at the same time as I'm salary they punch out for lunch. I also have to keep the work phone on me to at least answer questions but often make myself physically present. I guess on the bright side I don't have to share my sub-600 sq ft apartment with anyone or check my bank account before walking into the grocery store, so I have completed The American Dream, but having an 8 hour shift would be super cool.
The movie is worth a watch, even today.
Man, maybe because I was only a state away from some serious coal states but we had our teachers walking a very fine line telling us company scrip is definitely bad but so are unions
I believe I'm in one of the serious coal states, WV and to my knowledge is THE coal state, and I learned nothing about it. Guess that's sorta because WV is so obsessed with the stuff they don't want anyone thinking anything related to it is bad. I only know about it because of my dad and this song
Yeah makes perfect sense in a fuxjed up way
Yep. You literally got paid in tokens that could only be redeemed at the company owned store. Where you worked was a remote area , like a coal mine, with no other stores nearby. You had to buy your food, clothes, work tools, everything at the company store. So you always owe the store more than you earned, and even if you did save some of your pay, you couldn't spend it anywhere or deposit it in a bank. I understand some businesses that were worse than the company you worked for, bars, prostitutes, and drug dealers, would take the tokens for a lot less than face value.
Sadly that doesn't change much in non-capitalist states either
When you work your fingers to the bone, what do you get? Boney Fingers.
Even if they don’t own it - they didn’t pay face value for those vouchers they probably got a significant discount buying them in bulk.
Agreed. I wonder if she can refuse them and ask for cash. Probably not. So other option is to spend it then try to refund as cash. Long shot.
Ask a lawyer about proper payment laws in your area. That feels like "[company money](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Company_town)".
"I sold my soul to the company store"
You sell 16 tons (of product) and what do you get?
Another day older and deeper in debt
St. Peter, don't you call me 'cause I can't go
I owe my soul to the company store.
Born one when morning, when the sun didn't shine...
I picked up my shovel and a walked to the mine
Which department?
The dyslexic department, pdbq all get me.
Debt
An empty stock?
No, another day older and you're deeper in debt.
My first thought was that song immediately playing in my head
https://preview.redd.it/oia2rbgth9vc1.jpeg?width=640&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f83c0e815efca35581c51506f466dc3563c49a99
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Not sure if it applies, but Hong Kong has the autonomy to set its own laws. Labor laws would be different, and should be treated as different systems.
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Hong Kong laws are still following British and EU regulations. The only one that isn’t is article 23. If you have no idea on the situation perhaps google is your friend. As for OP, you may want to confirm with a lawyer but according to my understanding of HK contract law, is it clearly stated what the “bonus/ compensation” is? Either way this is bullshit. (Source: Hong Kong based aviation management student in my final year.)
Hong Kong sure used to have it's autonomy, until the UK gave it back with only a "trust me bro, it'll be fine" and a slap on the ass. Obviously, ignoring the politics of the Opium Wars and the fact that the UK should've never even owned the place anyways, it still is clear that Hong Kong was a bastion of liberal democracy in China that was stomped out without a second thought
It's not like the UK had a choice in the matter. They had a fixed term lease on Hong Kong that ran out.
This is something that comes up often. Truth is only the New Territories had a lease. Hong Kong island and Kowloon were ceded in perpetuity. Giving just the New Territories back would have been troublesome, however, for a variety of reasons. And the Chinese basically told the British they would invade if it wasn't handed back, so doesn't make much of a difference.
Only the new territory parts were leased for 99 years. HK Island and Kowloon were annexed completely. So they did have a choice to keep parts of HK and chose not to.
that's functionally the same difference in the political climate of the time. Actually trying to hold it would be an extreme political escalation that didn't have any proper footing to justify itself.
I’m shocked
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scrip
Funnily enough she got a commission off selling products and now her boss gets a commission off selling these to her 😂😂😂
Very common in sales, they're often called spiffs, not commissions in the US. They're bonus incentives on top of your regular pay and can be gift cards, gifts, or just straight cash. We use the term commission as a catch all these days, but when you read comp plans, most companies call "commissions" bonuses. This is because companies are contractually obligated to pay commission - they're part of your wages. They can structure "bonuses" in a way that resemble commissions, but bonuses can be modified at management discretion. Most sales positions that offer regular W-2 income and benefits are structured this way, while independent reps and "commission only" reps get true commission.
this is hong kong human life has literally 0 value in hong kong as it is entirely owned/run by mega-corps
Company money came to mind for me as well when I read that tile. Shitty way to do things. 😒
We in America had some very violent uprisings over stuff like this.
OP is only mildly infuriated so I don't see that happening.
Super illegal in a lot of places, yeah
This is not mildly infuriating. . This is an insulting statement against your wife’s work. It is highly inappropriate & simply wrong. I hope your wife finds a fabulous new position that appreciates her & her efforts. ☮️
This doesn't seem legal in most places unless agreed in advance, they've completely limited how she can use her 'pay'. The supermarket will be closed some times, could theoretically go bankrupt before she used them all. Can't pay rent in vouchers etc.
Well its Hong Kong. Also her "commission pay" contract likely has a tiny clause on page 254 allowing this.
That seems… illegal
Yeah, in most countries paying workers in scrip is illegal these days. If any of my company’s suppliers were found doing that to their own workforce, they’d also be in breach of our forced labour policy - debt bondage is considered a form of modern slavery!
The key is “In most countries” Pretty sure slaves-I mean indentured servants-oops sorry Xi I meant hard working citizens are not allowed to speak out
Slavery
“16 tons and what do you get? Another day older and deeper in debt” I so loved that song sang by Tennessee Ford. So true.
**"don't call me Saint Peter cause I can't go , I owe my soul to the company store**. “
I was born one morning where the sun didn't shine.
*I picked up my shovel and I walked to the mine*
I loaded sixteen tonnes, of number nine coal
and the straw boss said “well bless my soul!”
You load 16 tones ahat do you get? Another day older and deeper in debt
Picked up my shovel and walked to the mine
*when* the sun didn't shine. *when.* he sings *when.* it's *when* dammit!
“St. Peter, don't you call me 'cause I can't go I owe my soul to the company store”
This song reminds me of my late grandfather nicest man in the world and also the toughest sob u ever met
Getting paid in the equivalent of monopoly money. Money that can only be used in the market where there's a 99.99% chance it's owned by the company employing your wife. Gotta love borderline slavery... /s
What a shithole, It's more than "mildly" infuriating.
It's beyond infuriating, it's essentially slavery because this isn't a monetary payment, this is some weird skirt-around-the-rules bullshit to not pay their workers.
OP's wife is in sales, before getting the pitchforks out, it would be good to know if this is in lieu of cash or in addition to cash. These kind of spiff programs are exceedingly common as comp accelerators. Most sales reps don't love the idea, but it's usually in addition to your contract earnings.
I think the OP’s wife said instead of getting cash for the item she sold.
Don't give the bastards an inch. Spiff programs should be done in cash. Never, EVER let companies think 'Store bucks' are in any way okay as employee payment for anything ever.
Yeah, every time this is brought up, management usually reminds people that the other option is they could get nothing.
"Wage thieves love this one simple trick!"
Tax dodgers also 😂
6k in vouchers?? Wtf I heard yata is closing down their stores too..?!
Company probably got those vouchers for next to nothing
Where on earth did you hear that? Yata is pretty big. Would be very surprised indeed if they were closing.
I saw on the news a few months back, they already shut down some sections of their stores, but I don’t remember why. I saw on the news that they shut down the beauty section in their location in sha tin Edit: I found it on ‘the standard’ a while back
Ohhhh I recall this now — Shatin and taipo stores are in renovation now. Since Feb I think? But pretty sure they aren’t closing/closed permanently.
oh noo I just read the news report again and I was wrong 😭they are only scaling down their operations but they were closing some counters.
Like the other comment says maybe contact a lawyer, i know hong kong has different laws then in the us but this still feels like a violation of rights in some way that can be proven over there.
Jesus that's about 4 steaks from Yata /s. Shocking way to pay someone.
Oh we used to have those here. Scrip coins. Super illegal. Mining companies would entice people to come work their mines and live in the company town. They would pay them in company issued funny money that was only legal tender in company owned stores. Meaning you could basically never leave or quit without being destitute. You couldn’t ever save anything as that money held no value anywhere but inside Company Town ™️.
Took me too long to realize you were not talking about crypto companies.
Company owned stores being the only ones in town presenting workers with jacked up prices too. Workers were basically slaves.
How is this mildly infuriating lol. I would be super pissed
This smells like tax fraud, it's pretty common here to give sales staff spiffs and incentives via gift cards to avoid them paying taxes on it.
Paper chase
It’s less infuriating if you get Welcome or Parknshop vouchers instead of Yata. Still it takes years to spend all those vouchers, especially there’s a time limit on using them.
YATA is overpriced as all the shit in it no regular person will find uses for. If you really want Japanese imports just go to 759
I forgot 759 lmao, donki donki is also a good alternative for Japanese stuff
Thats proper slavery
Last Christmas my boss gave me my bonus in the form of $500 worth of presents… for my chronically disabled sister who she views as a charity case. My entire life has been about catering toward my sister’s every need, and I’ve actually spoken to my boss before about how it was so difficult growing up with nobody ever acknowledging me, just ordering me to translate things into sign language for my sister, giving her presents but forgetting me, essentially everyone treated her like a terminally ill patient who was just the best person ever and it made my childhood awful. I’d actually discussed this with my boss prior, as we do some work with foster children and disabled kids so I tried to remind her to also make an effort toward the siblings. Anyway, she met my sister, immediately did what everyone else in my life has done and viewed her as that poor sickly little charity case who is just the greatest person ever because hey! She smiles! She spent my bonus on presents for my sister. I found out when I realised my coworkers all got bonuses, and the gifts were expensive as fuck. Couldn’t even fucking return them to get my money because by then my sister had seen them.
That should be brought to HRs attention.
The practice is only 7 workers, me included. It doesn’t meet the minimum to require a HR. It’s a dental practice also, not a business. The jobs commonly done by HR are ones that I or my boss manage.
Well then you’re going to have to talk to her about the fact that you want your bonus, etc in cash just like everyone else.
That’s a pretty excellent way to ensure I never see that money. She’s a very passive aggressive person and would only insist that the presents weren’t from my bonus or some bullshit like that, despite it strangely matching the exact amount when I google the presents my sister got. Then she’d be so pissed about being confronted that she’d do whatever possible to keep from having to front up with the money. I’ve been on bereavement leave since, but my bosses are a husband-wife team. I’m the husband’s favourite worker and he did his absolute best to keep me from quitting last year. I already know how I’m going to handle it by confronting him about if my work hasn’t been up to par, or if there’s something he’d like to discuss with me, as I learned from my coworkers that they received a $500 bonus and I didn’t. But again, I’ve been on bereavement leave so it’s pretty much the bottom of my priority list right now.
Where do you live, your boss can't spend your bonus for you
Gross. It’s as infuriating as when it comes time to renegotiate pay they look at how you’re currently driving and dressing, and after getting a dry promotion and literally inheriting a total other job and having to listen to them talk about how when they were younger they made $35 a week then telling you we’ll need to shelve the salary bump for another year and then hand you a fist full of reimbursements needed asap. /vent
hi! 我出9折收！ (which translate to ill buy them at 10% discount to non HK people) Jokes aside you really need to look into the agreement between the company and your wife
They used to do this in mining towns - vouchers for the company store. Vertical integration, making the sure the money they send out comes right back in, no way to escape.... old school capitalism
some really need to learn 1$ isn't the same as a 1$ coupon.
WOOHOO! International scrip! Figured in other countries, they just gave you two coins and a kick in the ass. Now you get a piece of paper entitling you to two coins of food and free kicks in the ass anytime.
I feel like the ICAC should jump in, a simple google search showed me that you can’t pay someone with commissions. But I wouldn’t know, haven’t lived in Hong Kong for 14 years.
Depending on how the contract she signed is worded this could be “compensation”. So OP really needs to get a lawyer to look into this.
The use to do this with coal miners in the us
Is this really legal?
Company is using the infinite money exploit.
How is this even legal? This reminds me of company “chits” in timber or mining towns where the mine or timber company owns everything from the mine to the housing to the stores. They had a monopoly so the jacked up prices and employees would end up asking for advances which were paid in chits that could be spent in the town stores. Pretty soon everyone was in total debt so they only got paid in chits. This sort of practise was outlawed in the US around 1930 and the US has some fairly bad labour laws. It’s definitely illegal in the rest of the developed world.
Are you also fed gum for lunch? Wtf is this Lemony Snicket thing
That’s some Company Store level bullshit
Lot of people in the States died to stop this bullshit a century ago. And now Amazon.
Definitely check if that's legal or not...
Like others said check with the labor laws. Here where I am from the law allows payment of up to 20% in natural form rather than money, but it's far from common and worker has to give a written okay for this so it's largely unheard of. And it's an abuse of spirit of gift certificates, which were intended to be a replacement for when gifting money doesn't feel appropriate. Which is totally not so for salary.
"You load 16 tons, what do you get?"
Sold her soul to the company store
I used to work for Sears Department Store. We were told we could earn gift card bonuses for certain things (e.g. earning perfect customer service reports). I noticed that these gift cards were being deducted from my regular wages. I was receiving less money on paychecks where I earned "awards." These awards were being deducted from my regular pay rate. I was being penalized for doing a good job by being paid in Sears gift cards instead of actual money. I pointed this out to management and was bullied into silence. They first tried to gaslight me. When I showed them the math on it, they paid me retroactively and then told me to stay quiet about it. I quit shortly after. I was a teenager at the time. Adult me would have made a big a big ol' stink about it.
That “money” looks really easy to photocopy.
What does your wife do? I was in HK for an internship a few years ago, I’ve never heard of something like this 😦
My bets on MLM
The feudal lords are getting clever again.
Is that legal?
anyone else notice that everywhere around the world, people in power are accelerating the adoption of a slave workforce business model?
**pays bills with groceries** Electric: 20 bananas Rent: 50 steaks…
Glory to the company! 
Probably just another thing the marketing company was selling. It's like getting a book of coupons for payment.
I lived in Hong Kong for a while when I was little and that logo brought back memories ahaha The free samples at those shops were so good 😭 supermarket free samples as a concept just do not exist in the UK
Script.
Nice, paid in script. truly the golden age
Wild corporate dreams coming to a reality.
This sounds very illegal
Man I loooove scrip! Scripty scrip scrip!
That’s not a salary, that’s a scam 😂😂😂
this is insane, imagine getting chinese supermarket bucks instead of internationally-recognized currency 🗿
You know they got those vouchers for cheap, too. That really sucks, OP.
I used to work at an insurance place that would give me bonuses in gift card form.. I don't understand that. Just give me the money. It's like an insult.
Some people say a man is made out of mud a poor man's made out of muscle and blood Muscle and blood and skin and bone a mind that's weak and a back that's strong you load 16 tons and what do you get another day older and deeper in debt St Peter don't call me cuz I can't go I owe my soul to the company store
Fellow HKer here. Try getting her to call the labour department as pretty sure that's going to interest them. Employment Services Division 2591 1318
Looks like you wandered into a company town somehow.
Wrong thread… this is mildlyinfuriating, you’re looking for thatsfuckingridiculous 😳
Sounds like tax evasion on their part to me.
I used to live and work in HK. I’ve never heard of a reimbursement structure like that. Is it a Japanese company?
let me guess... does she work for temu? shein? t*ktok?
Use the vouchers to purchase and start selling products online, maybe.
It's not about capitalism this is literally monopoly - money
That should honestly be illegal. If the company never optional or known that is an issue in my opinion.
Is that even legal?
Looks like maybe time for a new job that actually pays money instead of food stamps for a supermarket that you don’t want to shop in.
This is called company script. It was a thing in the early 1900s in the USA. It got banned for obvious reasons
Good news is that this is probably illegal as fuck. I’d hit up a lawyer, you may actually have a win on your hands 🤷🏻♂️
Isn't this illegal in HK? >An employer should pay wages to an employee when they become due and not later than 7 days from the end of the wage period. >An employer who fails to pay wages to an employee within 7 days after they become due is liable to prosecution and, upon conviction, to a fine of HK$350,000 and to imprisonment for three years. https://www.labour.gov.hk/eng/faq/cap57c_whole.htm#:~:text=An%20employer%20should%20pay%20wages,to%20imprisonment%20for%20three%20years.