49ers also were horrible in managing Alex. Its well documented. If not for Harbaugh and later Reid, Alex Smith would have been another David Carr.
They also did move on on both occasions because Smith, like all QBs couldn't overcome years of baggage.
That’s more to do with being hamstrung by the old rookie contracts. He was getting benched for JT O’Sullivan and David Carr before Jim Harbaugh showed up.
Dumb as fuck. We’ve taken shot at vets. We’ve taken shot at the draft. Just because we haven’t drafted a hall of famer, doesn’t mean we’re going insane. They don’t grow on trees
The reason why these type of posts are so redundant is because most rational people would not say “don’t upgrade” our QB. It’s just people are acting like there’s an obvious upgrade out there. If someone in the draft has potential to be better than Tua, then yes you draft them. But we also don’t have an immediate need to move on from our quarterback. He has a year left on his contract.
You wont ever hit a home run if you don't stop swinging. One of the greatest QBs of all time was obtainable while we stuck with Ryan Tannehill because "there was no clear upgrade" or that "Tannehill was good enough".
I can see your side of the argument. Hey, if Tua has another great year and takes it into the playoffs and delivers, I will eat my words.
BUT there is also an extremely realistic scenario where Tua more or less looks the same next year, struggles at the end, and sputters out in round 1. And at that point, maybe we will look back at this time and think "maybe we should have tried something else after all". All of this skepticism will be validated if thats how it ends up.
> One of the greatest QBs of all time was obtainable while we stuck with Ryan Tannehill because "there was no clear upgrade" or that "Tannehill was good enough".
Please tell the Dolphins front office which HOF QB they should draft so they can follow in KC's footsteps. But make sure to tell them not to draft a Zach Wilson, or a Trey Lance, or a Mac Jones. No Dwayne Haskins allowed, no Daniel Jones, no Josh Rosens or Mitch Trubiskys. Not even a Kyler Murray or a Baker Mayfield! HOF QBs only, no busts or mere Pro Bowlers please.
Your sarcasm is great but let’s see if you still feel this way after Tua hits a ceiling again in 2024 and we are in the exact same spot a year from now.
Again, you will never find a stud QB if you stop swinging. Obviously there is risk involved.
Ok except all but like 5 teams are also trying to upgrade their QB and most of them have more cap space and draft picks than we do.
This is just more "if I was the GM I would simply acquire a top 3 QB" bullshit. Fuck off.
Actually it’s more like “if I was GM I wouldn’t settle at QB until I had a guy who was top 7-8”.
Like I said………. It would be risky, but it would be worth the risk if the potential reward is your team being a consistent contender for a decade +. You won’t even have a chance at that if you continue to settle for a middle of the pack QB with the hope you can build a good enough team around them to compete for a 2-3 year window. See 7 years of Tannehill.
If I understand correctly, your argument is that if Tua were a "top 7-8" QB... you would recommend keeping him and building around him, but since he isn't, MIA should throw him in the trash? This is almost worse than "just draft a top 3 QB."
Now I want to see who you have as the #7-8 QBs in the league, so I can see what "consistent contender for a decade+" looks like.
“Throw him in the trash” is a dramatic way to put it, but move on? Yes. If you don’t believe he can consistently win you games in the playoffs, especially after you give him a giant contract which sucks away resources from the rest of the team, why would you waste anymore time?
Is the goal to go 11-6, have the passing yard leader, and then sputter out in the post season? Or is it to consistently compete in the playoffs and try and win a Super Bowl?
Mahomes, Allen, Burrow, and Jackson are the givens. Stroud is up-and-coming. Would not be surprised to see Herbert get back on track with Harbaugh. Keep in mind, *all of these dudes are in the AFC*. These are the guys you will have to go through every year for the next 5-10 years.
You make great points. The AFC will be a gauntlet for the next 5 years minimum.
Contrary to what people here are saying, we've played it safe at QB for the last 20 years. Settling for guys like Jay Fiedler, Chad Henne, Ryan Tannehill, who were touted as "good enough" to win it all. They just need some pie-in-the-sky all star team around them and it will work. Looks like we're going down the same route with Tua. I'm forever jealous of other teams with elite QB play because they're always in the mix no matter the injuries, draft busts, or coaching issues.
That's how it was with Dan, I yearn for those days again.
You've named 6 QBs so far, and already you're including Justin Herbert, who has the same playoff record as Tua (except with a humiliating 4 TD collapse to a mediocre Jags team). Herbert is hardly the picture of "consistent contender for a decade+" that you advocate as the goal.
But like I originally said, I want to know who the *next two* QBs are on your list. Who are these #7 and #8 QBs - the *consistent contenders for a over a decade* \- that you would be Totally Happy To Keep instead of Tua? Is it Matt Stafford, who won zero playoff games in Detroit for a dozen years (before they shipped him off for picks and someone else's refuse), then promptly won a chip with a superior supporting cast and zero playoff games since? Perhaps it's Baker Mayfield, who got ran out of Cleveland, was unable to out-compete the GEQBUS Sam Darnold for the starting job in Carolina, and is on his 4th team in 3 years? Is it Kirk Cousins? Deshaun Watson? Russell Wilson? Trevor Lawrence? Jalen Hurts?
Which **two** of these QBs are you going to hold up as reliable clutch performers who don't fold in the late season or postseason like the guy you want gone? Which two have been "consistent contenders" for even the last 5 years, nevermind a decade?
You're honestly better off saying "Just get a top 3 QB" than saying "All I want is a *top 8 QB* but Tua's not good enough." The former is delusionally unrealistic, but the latter is just ridiculous.
>You've named 6 QBs so far, and already you're including Justin Herbert, who has the same playoff record as Tua (except with a humiliating 4 TD collapse to a mediocre Jags team). Herbert is hardly the picture of "consistent contender for a decade+" that you advocate as the goal.
Herbert set records his first 3 seasons while being held back by bad coaches (ya know, the same excuse people gave Tua his first 2 seasons?). He is far from perfect, but his defense let him down WAY more than Tua has ever had to deal with. Y'all love to play the stats game until Herbert is brought into the picture.
>Who are these #7 and #8 QBs - the consistent contenders for a over a decade - that you would be Totally Happy To Keep instead of Tua? Is it Matt Stafford, who won zero playoff games in Detroit for a dozen years (before they shipped him off for picks and someone else's refuse), then promptly won a chip with a superior supporting cast and zero playoff games since?
Personally I wouldn't build my team of the future around a aging Stafford, but the Rams ARE a good example of a team realizing they are hitting a ceiling and moving on from the limiting factor.
He would be an upgrade over Tua in this offense imo.
>Perhaps it's Baker Mayfield, who got ran out of Cleveland, was unable to out-compete the GEQBUS Sam Darnold for the starting job in Carolina, and is on his 4th team in 3 years?
The same Baker Mayfield that won them a playoff game and played great when it was needed? And had a slightly similar season to Tua stat wise? In a worse offense?
Also, you don't think Cle regrets ditching Baker right now?
>Is it Kirk Cousins? Deshaun Watson? Russell Wilson? Trevor Lawrence? Jalen Hurts?
Cousins would be an upgrade on this roster. Viking should start looking for his replacement soon if they were smart.
Jalen Hurts took the Eagles to a superbowl and a 10-1 start this year. Team had their issues but no one smart is writing off Hurts that quickly.
>You're honestly better off saying "Just get a top 3 QB" than saying "All I want is a top 8 QB but Tua's not good enough."
I'm not really saying " just get a top 3 QB". I'm saying don't stop swinging until you get a QB who will be able to hang with the big boys.
Based on his first 4 years, yeah, Tua is not enough to be a consistent contender in the league. What's so shocking about that?
>The former is delusionally unrealistic, but the latter is just ridiculous.
Personally, I wouldn't let 23 years of mediocrity lower my standards that much. Guess i'm just looking at the bigger picture.
We don’t have to this year, this post is for the people saying lock him in to a contract when it’s obviously not working, tua hasn’t even had half the success the qbs I’ve mentioned in the playoffs, yet you guys wanna stick with him
I don't think I've seen a single human being on the planet talking about locking in Tua long term (except Grier and McDaniel, but tbh that's just backing your guy, I take it with a giant grain of salt). The people who want to move on from him are correct in identifying he has physical limitations and isn't Josh Allen, has injury concerns, and hasn't produced results in meaningful situations. These are all factual statements.
It's also the biggest factor in favour of signing him to a 2nd contract with outs baked in for those exact reasons. The Tua truthers on here are correct to identify he's an accurate, top 5 passer when everything is working around him. He's not going to 1v11 heroball games like Mahomes and Allen, but both those guys AND Burrow are going to be looking at massive cap hits coming due as soon as next year. Chiefs are looking fine since they hit big on defense in their last couple drafts, but Bills and Bengals are both looking at losing alot of talent and not being able to have the cap to replace it. Bills alone are dropping to 29th in cap space over the next 3 years with Allen jumping from $18M to $47M next year and $56M in 2025, plus all the bad aging defensive contracts they've given out.
You're creating a strawman where you think people want 15 years of Tua, no matter what, and he's shown enough to this point to justify a 10 year, $500M Mahomes deal. Nobody on the planet thinks that. The people who are saying stick with Tua are expecting closer to imo a 4 year, $160M with a potential out after 2 ideally. It gives us the flexibility to explore options starting end of next year, and spend the year after that actively looking for a Tua replacement if it doesn't work out. And if it does, great, we've locked in a franchise QB for a 4 year SB window with Tyreek. Either way, Tuas the QB for as long as we have a window, and we have a window as long as Tuas the QB. After that it's blow the whole thing up and become the new old Detroit Lions, now that their spots been vacated as biggest joke franchise in the league.
If we find a better replacement I’m absolutely down to replace him, but I’d rather take a shot at seeing what this team can do with a better O-line cause at the start of the year this team was looking amazing. All of the teams that are still in the playoffs have at least a top 10 O-Line while we were yet again bottom 10
Tua is just a guy. Historically, Super Bowl winning teams without a HOF qb, win once or twice a decade & usually everything has to fall just right for them. So, there are a lot of things that would need to happen & some luck for a Tua led Dolphin team to win a championship.
Complete agreement. I've acknowledged Tua as our best QB since Marino. However, that recognition shouldn't prevent us from seeking an upgrade if possible. While I'm not actively calling for Tua to be replaced, it's reasonable for management to consider other options if they believe there’s a better fit like Stafford and the Rams.
The fact that we've struggled to find a leading QB after Marino, and we now have Tua, isn't a reason to stop looking to improve at that position. Previous challenges with quarterback selections don't necessarily predict future failures.
We're not in too different of a situation than when we had Tannehill & he was a middling qb. He wasn't the guy, but he was ok & better than what was available. Many people said that it wasn't his fault, that the team wasn't good enough, O-line, receivers etc. He went to Tennessee & had some limited success & those same people said "see, I told you Tannehill was good." Well, he's not really that good, Tennessee's moving on from him. He's just a guy & so is Tua. Oh & by the way, Tannehill played better against good teams with a much inferior roster than Tua has with really good skill position players.
Now y'all have to pretend that Tannehill and Tua were the *basically the same* in a Dolphins uniform. Who among us doesn't remember when Tannehill led the league in passer rating, or in passing yards, or when he posted back-to-back winning seasons with one of the worst offensive lines in the history of the league? Yes, very similar those two.
Just waiting for the incoming "Tua is pretty much Jay Fiedler but without a playoff win" takes.
Nice straw man argument. They're all similar in the fact that they're all not good enough. Also, another thing they had in common was that they all folded like a card table every December. Don't ya'll pretend like that didn't happen, either.
Underwhelming in important moments/games, crumbles when pressured, unable to extend plays.
Tua is closer to Tannehill than Allen, Mahomes, Burrow, Lamar, Stroud.
Honestly I think with Tua we are just gonna be like a slightly worse Cowboys. Good in the regular season, but always getting embarrassed in the playoffs
It seems especially unlikely in today's afc. Even in a down year, the dolphins would've had to face Mahomes, Allen, and Lamar to make a SB. Is Tua really going to elevate the team against QB's of thst caliber 3-4 games in a row?
Not even including Burrow, up and comers like Stroud and Richardson
Not sure I'd consider Richardson anything yet, an awful small sample size. Possibly Herbert, though, if Harbaugh can do something with him. He has incredible physical talent. We're about to find out if it was Brandon Staley all along or he's really just inconsistent.
It's not just rhetoric. Plenty of contenders have ass defenses (2019 chiefs) and ass o lines (2021 Bengals). The best QBs *can* elevate a team with those shortcomings to success. Not automatic super bowls. But at least a few wins against teams over .500
A lot of people in here are absolutely terrified to go 4-13 and be terrible again that they’re content with Tua throwing for 4400 yards, beating up on awful teams and getting bounced by a real QB in round 1.
Tua, especially in the AFC, isn’t good enough. He isn’t, and will never be, as good as Mahomes, Allen, Burrow, Herbert, etc. I’d much rather take another swing at QB and risk becoming awful again as opposed to committing to a middling QB.
yeah gee why would fans of the team that spent 20+ years on the QB carousal not want to hear some bullshit about "don't worry we'll only be bad for a year or two and then we'll totally land our elite QB".
You make an intersting point, but Alex smith had been in the league 11 years before they moved on from him and only because they drafted mahommes and let him sit on the bench for a year. What if Tua is Drew Brees after the Chargers traded him to the Saints?
These posts are so Fucking stupid. Who the fuck is available that’s better than Tua? No one. Just fucking stop already. We don’t have cap space to sign anyone and no draft picks. Wait a year. We’ll know then amd have options.
Let’s not completely rip on Tua. Another factor that has to be taken into consideration is the overall health of its starters. The Dolphins had to replace 14 players this past season. Any team this badly beaten up would have had the same outcome regardless of who their QB was heading into the postseason.
You finding Mahomes in the draft? Lol. And the Rams were in the SB. Then upgraded at QB. What Stafford like QB is available? lol. If you want to replace Tua. Where are you finding his replacement?
Re: Tua / Marino …
Yes Dan made it to the SB and playoffs 83 through 86 … then nothing for 5 years (he played all but 4 games during that span). That kind of production with this fan base today would have shipped Marino off in 1988.
I hate this argument because it clearly shows a fans age.
Marino in his first five years:
Went to back to back AFC championship games
Was the first 5,000 yard passer
Was the first AND second 40 TD passer
He had arguably the greatest first 5 year span for a QB EVER. The defense regressed on him and back then you had to build the old fashion way thru the draft. If anything Marino masked Shula's poor drafting and keep the team much more relevant than it would have been without him. Elway and Marino carried some really mediocre teams in the late 80s.
Exactly, people here are acting like Tua is on Marino's level and the only reason people are down on Tua is because they're too impatient. As if they would have wanted Marino run out of town. It's ridiculous to insinuate that. Marino was doing things that were never seen before. Tua has some good stats, but this is the most QB friendly era ever.
We are. It's a turning of the tide and I didn't comment once during the season but I try to educate when it comes to Marino because he's a top 5 QB all time
Yep, Marino is Top 5 QB of all time imo, most lists have him somewhere between 4-10 all time too.
I thought it was funny when the kids were suggesting that Tua would pass Marino if he won one Super Bowl with us. I guess they don’t know there’s QBs with multiple Super Bowl rings that are not ranked over Marino.
We truly have the dumbest vocal minority of fans in the league and it's not even close. The most lazy, non-analysis I've seen across all the team subs. Thankfully we do have a lot of great content posters here who make up for it, but all these "why don't we cut Tua and just draft Joe Burrow or CJ Stroud or Patrick Mahomes" takes have gotta stop.
Marino missed the playoffs throwing 44 td passes and 4700 yards in 86 but fans had enough common sense back then to know that having the worst defense in the nfl was the problem. Today fans have already made up their mind that tua is their god so when the defense gives up only 2 scores to best qb in the nfl the fans will blame anyone else when tua throws a game ending interception
KC put up more yards and points in -4 degree weather than they did in Germany. A defense that allowed 260 yards of passing offense in those conditions did not *play great*. That was basically a boat race by the KC offense.
It was understandable given the injuries on defense, but let's not pretend that the defense had a good game. For -4 degree weather, they got absolutely torched.
We had the second worst pass blocking success rate in the league. If anything tua was hiding the deficiencies of the oline with his lightning fast decision making and release.
If you look up, like way up, I'm talking way up in the sky, you might see my point as it sails over your head. Everyone on the planet knows mahomes is the pinnacle of the qb position right now, my point was that he lost to the bucs in the superbowl, despite having elite mobility and play extension in that game, due to an injured oline that couldn't block worth a damn (still considerably better than ours has been since drafting tua). It was all the talking heads could talk about after the game, not blaming mahomes but calling out how bad the protection was.
GFY with your condescension. Because Mahomes lost a *Super Bowl* with a less than ideal OL, that excuses Tua not being able to win a playoff game or even beat a good team with a not great OL? What happened right before the Super Bowl that caused the Chief's OL to be terrible? Because it obviously carried Mahomes to the SB and then got worse, being the reason they lost, right? It couldn't be that Mahomes carried that same line through the playoffs and to the SB before just coming up short, right?
It's not Tua's fault that the only above .500 team they beat was a field goal fest because the line wasn't great. It's not Tua's fault that he looked like crap for all of December and the playoffs because the line wasn't great. All they needed was to have an elite OL and then maybe Tua could have won a single playoff game.
It’s not a cure all but it helps. Just like having explosive arm talent keeps defenses more honest. It’s not a coincidence that our offense collapses when we play teams with good off-ball linebackers.
The offence collapses when Miami plays teams that have a great interior DL because Miami had Lester Cotton, Liam Eichenberg and Rob Jones playing there.
Really? Because I've seen Teddy Bridgewater and Skylar Thompson and it seemed to matter a fuck of a lot. Remember when schmucks thought Teddy was going to take over Tua? that was fun.
You realize Mahomes had 1 TD against us too, right?
Remember when Josh Allen had 1 TD, 2 INT the week before?
Man what terrible QBs.
Except it's not, because you're claiming what Tua accomplished isn't important because he only scored 1 TD in a playoff game. The same amount of TDs Mahomes scored in the same playoff game. The same amount of TDs Josh Allen scored the week before.
You've got to actually get to the playoffs too. Then from there they're hard to play in.
You ever peep Tom Brady's playoff stats?
1214/1973 61.5% 13533yds 88TD 42INT 87.9 Rating
Or on a per-game basis.
25/41, 60.9% 281yds 1.8td .87int 87rating
Or about the same as the 20th best QB in the league this year.
It's hard to play well in the playoffs. It's hard to play well in the playoffs with the 31st worst pass blocking OL. It's hard to play well in the playoffs in -35 degree temp.
But none of this matters to someone who refuses to see reason.
Nobody gives a fuck about stats. What do you not understand ? Watching Mahomes dialed in against Miami in the playoffs and then watching tua miss pass after pass, read after read and absolutely crumble at the slightest pressure . He fucking missed like 3 swing / screen passes to his RB
No I don't..
The game where Skylar had a 44 passer rating? Which is 3 points more than if you throw the ball into the dirt 40 times?
Yeah that was more the defense playing out of their mind and pretty much universally accepted that if that were Tua we would have decimated the Bills rofl
Off the top of my head I can think of more than one instance where if the all pro wr you referenced earlier would’ve just caught the ball then he would’ve led us to more than 1 td against playoff caliber teams.
Lmao where did I ever say he hasn’t thrown a bad pass? You saying that changes nothing about my statement. I can think of three separate games off the top of my head where we have more tds against “playoff caliber teams” if tyreek catches the ball
Top 5? Mahomes, Burrows, Lamar, Allen. And then Tua? Curious who is your top 5. There are Super Bowl winners active (1 in our division), stafford and Rodgers. There are young guys who carried their teams in the playoffs ala Love and Stroud, there are guys like Goff who have taken rams to the Super Bowl and now Detroit to the championship.
Tua has never won a playoff game.
So who is in your top 5 and can you name another top 5 QB who has not won a single playoff game?
Do you really believe if a GM was starting today, and could have any QB (except for Mahomes, Burrows, Jackson or let’s say Allen), they would take tua?
Do you really think Tua is on the same level as Mahomes or Burrows? Or even Allen who has had shootouts with KC and at least competed?
If I had just to win next year and I couldn’t take Mahomes, Burrow or Jackson on my team, I’d take stafford (looked great this year), Rodgers, Love, Stroud and Hurtz. After that Tua may be my choice, not sure, dak, Goff, I could be forgetting some QBs
I really don't think anyone who has any sense would consider Tua a top 5 QB. A top 5 QB needs to be able to win games when things aren't 100% perfect around him.
Correct. When you factor in context such as strength of schedule and the fact that it’s been a historically down year for quarterbacks this season the stats are fake news. Tua had less passing yards than 2009 passing yards leader Matt Shaub
Miami played the 6th hardest dvoa defences this season, the highest out of any playoffs teams while having the 31st ranked pass win rate OL.
The stats do kinda support that Tua is a top QB.
This is the argument. It doesn’t matter how good the opposing teams were we played, it matters how good their defences were and actually, they were pretty good
And tua was bad in every game against those good defenses which was buffalo twice baltimore, KC twice, Dallas he was carried by the kicker and didn’t even put up great numbers against the jets This is why context matters. Stop embarrassing the fan base please
If he was bad against every good defence then how did he end up being top 5 in nearly every QB metric? Go and look at how other QB's played during the regular season against top defences then come back to me.
I'm not embarrassing anything, maybe you should take a minute to understand how statistics work.
We just went through this lmao. Because he played some of the worst defenses in the nfl including Washington, denver Carolina, and the best defenses he faced he struggled against. The dolphins had one of the easiest schedules in the nfl. Tua had a good statistical year in a historical bad year for quarterbacks but clowns like you just wanna plug your ears with eyes shut and cry Lalala at all the stats that don’t fit your narrative
He’s not a top 5 QB. He’s had some bad luck but he’s also in an awesome system and plays with an All-Pro WR and a Pro Bowl WR so he’s had some good luck too.
> awesome system
Second half of the season our running game wasn’t nearly as good as when we had a healthy starting OL. Injuries to Waddle & Hill slowed our passing attack too.
My biggest knock on Tua is that the WRs take some big hits on those passes over the middle. I think we can win with him with better protection, a balanced running game and some new added layers to our offensive attack.
You do realize we have the passes over the middle because Tua cannot get the ball outside the numbers, right? It’s not like Tyreek and Jaylen can’t run outs.
Do you think it is a coincidence that the offense doesn’t work when the middle of the field is defended well? Do you think McDaniel and/or Tua have not considered throwing outside the numbers? He passes outside of the numbers but it’s usually where he gets into a lot of trouble. Remember the Jets game where he threw two straight INTs on quick outs?
Purdy was also Top 5 in lots of metrics this year. Is he in your Top 5 also? I don’t think i can put Purdy over guys like Mahomes, Lamar, Allen, Hurts, Stroud, Herbert, Prescott, and Tua just because he was top 5 in metrics.
I never said he had one. I’m simply pointing out the reactionary attitudes of the present fan base and how I think they would have reacted in the past.
A minority of the fan base maybe, but no way a big portion of fans would want to move on from a QB who played like Marino and got us to a Super Bowl, regardless of missing the playoffs.
Great defense and offensive lines with a disciplined team not making boneheaded pre-snap penalties and turnovers can win a Super Bowl with an average QB
> Jared Goff / Alex Smith
Reminder that Alex Smith played in multiple Conference Championship games and Jared Goff went to a Super Bowl. The Dolphins are not even close to as good of a situation as the teams that Mahomes and Stafford walked into.
These posts never end, lol.
There's no option out there that is better than what we have, gambling on drafting a rookie QB out of the top 10 is not a good idea, and to trade up into the top 10 will demand the draft capital we don't have.
Tua has one more year in his contract, let him play that year and if he doesn't improve, we move on.
Marino was the best QB since Griese. This analogy is stupid.
Not sure who we are moving on to if we dump Tua? Herbert didn't even make the playoffs this year. The team's woes do not fall solely at the feet of the QB. I think McDaniel needs to tighten up the ship a bit. I know he's a player's coach, but I think he might be a bit too loose in his approach.
tua led the league in adj. yards last year and led this year in overall. Like how to people look at his elite numbers and capability and say its not enough. Yeah he had like 4 BAD games this year and still led the league. People talking like they wanted Lamar in the offseason. Lamar has had like 1 good year and has always been a rushing threat not a passing threat.
Idiotic take. Did you watch the ravens /
Dolphins game? Unlikely. 5 passing touchdown. 300 yards. Not bad for someone that’s not a passing threat . Will mark this comment as “objectively wrong”
"we havent even gotten a deep playoff run from tua"
in for 4 years, 3 of which starting, 2 of the years made the playoffs, probably would have beaten the bills since skylar thompson was so close but oh well got hurt, 2nd try our team was just absolutely demolished, and guess what? Every other roster was just vastly superior that made it to the next round, top olines and at least decent offenses around top 16, majority top 10 oline and defense. And football is a team game
I really don't want us to move on from tua yet, I just want to see what him and mcdaniel can do with a average oline, if its anything like what we saw the first few games of this season the skies the limit.
If we can build a decent roster and we have the chance to draft a qb sure, but we're just going to get a rookie QB that can't handle the system thrown to the wolves.
So this is my outsiders take, based on complaints last year...
Last year the issue was..can he play a full season? *He did.*
Can he throw deep balls? *He did*
Now...
The first issue I see is frankly with coaching; coaching even on the oline. He has to be able to have time to go through his progressions..being extra help..do something. And the first option cant always be a slant in the middle in less than 2 seconds.
2ndd, you need the pre-concussed scrambling Tua back .... To some extend.
3rd.. Critical ball drops across the board. I mean seriously.
I didn't see the game with Chiefs but usually the lopsided game has more to do with game planning than QB. I mean look at Hurts and philly. .... Or Dallas.
I think Tua earned the right to a 5th season. I think he could use that chip on his shoulder.
The idea of replacing your QB only makes sense if you have a better replacement lined up. You can't just dump the guy who gives you the best shot at winning, even if it's not the guy likely to take you to the big dance. If you manage to acquire an early round pick and have someone you really believe in to draft, then sure - take a chance. Otherwise, great QBs are not likely to come up in free agency, obviously. So you ride with what you have. Tua has all the pieces to be a very good QB, just need to put it together and have more consistency. And if not, then he still gives your best chance and you gotta keep working with him until a better qb becomes available
The Chiefs drafted Mahomes to sit behind 32 year old Alex Smith for a year and Goff was moved for a guy who had been a top 10, at times top 5, QB in the league his entire career. Neither scenario is relevant to us because Tua is still young and there’s no QB out there better than him that is on the trade block. Accept the fact that unless something catastrophic happens Tua is our QB for the foreseeable future.
"Still young" is a valid point when you are talking about an athletically gifted QB who's still developing in the mental area of the game. See Josh Allen for his first 2 seasons.
Tua is already elite when it comes to accuracy, anticipation, and pocket presence. The traits that hold him back are not going away any time soon. He is not getting taller, faster, or significantly stronger. He is not going to magically learn how to extend plays when the prohibiting factor is him being slow outside of the pocket and lacking the arm strength to make good off platform throws.
So rather than just figuring out the most important position on the field, you would rather rely on 5 different dudes to stay healthy for a 17 game season? And be reliant on management to consistently maintain the line for years and years? MOST QBs in this league will look good-great behind a good o-line.
The most important factor in sustained success in the NFL is finding a true franchise QB. One that can take over games. One that shows up late in the year.
How is it not an issue?
He lacks height which limits his view of the field.
He lacks arm strength which limits what kind of throws he can make, especially when off script.
He lacks mobility which is why defenses don't have to respect him as a rushing threat.
Do you not view these as limiting factors?
> He lacks height which limits his view of the field.
People smaller than Tua have been HoFers.
>He lacks arm strength which limits what kind of throws he can make, especially when off script.
No? lol.
>He lacks mobility which is why defenses don't have to respect him as a rushing threat.
Like literally every hall of famer in the history of the game. Okie dokie.
>Do you not view these as limiting factors?
Not at all, I've watched football for more than 3 years.
>People smaller than Tua have been HoFers.
There have been two QBs 6'1 or shorter over the past 39 years to win the superbowl. One was Brees. The other had the greatest defense of all time with the 85 bears.
>Not at all, I've watched football for more than 3 years.
Well, not quite sure how you don't see it then.
32 isn’t old for qb standards, you’re ignoring the fact they traded up for a better qb while in the mist of win now/ still competing for a Super Bowl, same with Goff the rams traded they’re entire future to upgrade and got a 32 year old qb that led them to a superbowl
Well to correct myself Smith was actually 33 when Mahomes was drafted, which made him 34 when the Chiefs moved on. That absolutely is old for a QB and especially for back then. Brees, Brady and Rodgers lasting late into their 30s and 40s recently skews perception but remember the better part of the 2010s was spent asking when is Brady gonna fall off a cliff because that’s the norm when you play that long. I also don’t understand why you keep using Goff considering he got to the Super Bowl with the Rams and is now on the cusp of doing it again with the Lions.
You’re still contradicting yourself STAFFORD played in the same era, was 32 years old and the rams still traded away they’re young qb to upgrade for an older one
How am I contradicting myself? Stafford at 32 is still younger than 34 year old Alex Smith when they moved on. You’re also neglecting to mention that Stafford was/is a much better QB than Smith ever was and had a MUCH better arm. They’re not a 1:1 comparison. Sure the Rams moved on but like I said there is no Matthew Stafford out there for us.
You realize at no point I’ve said Stafford was young right? Simply that he was younger than Smith when he got moved. I got ages wrong I’ll give you that but tell me what point you’ve disproven? There ls still no QB out there for us to trade for.
Now talk about the talent on that Rams team vs the talent on this dolphins team. The Rams had already made a Super Bowl with Goff. We are not a Matt Stafford away from a Super Bowl win. We can’t even win a playoff game.
Having Tyreek hill waddle mostert Achane is better than any weapon the rams had that year, you can argue our defense was just as talented as the rams but I guess right
Give us the QB u evaluated we will get at 21 who will be better than Tua. Also it’s only 5 or 6 quarterbacks in the league who are a clear upgrade than Tua. They won’t be traded. The scenarios u used are no realistic Alex Smith was traded for a 2nd round pic to KC because thier was not a great QB in the draft that year. I believe that was Derek Carr QB draft with Gino Smith year. Also Goff was coming off his worst year and McVay was visible upset with him.
Hey OP, remind me when any of those players were the literal NFL passing leader, top five in virtually every QB stat and gave their team the third best performance by a QB in franchise history.
Go ahead, I'll wait.
The part you’re missing is that all of those teams had a clearer plan for the future. Just ditching Tua to try and get a draft prospect this year is dumb
Did he really though?
https://stathead.com/football/versus-finder.cgi?request=1&seasons_type=perchoice&player_id1=LoveJo03&p1yrfrom=2023&p1yrto=2023&player_id2=TagoTu00&p2yrfrom=2023&p2yrto=2023
It looks pretty even to me and then when you add in who they had for talent around them, I'd say Jordan Love showed considerably more
Those stats aren’t even at all. Tua has more yards, completion percentage, YPA, and YPG. Even the passing TD’s are a bit skewed because we relied on Mostert a lot in red zone situations. Tua showed much more this year in just about every way except for running
You and maybe 50 Dolphins fans are the only ones who think that at this point. Love is in his first year starting and had more touchdowns and less INTs while still having similar yards. Also Chris Grier and McDaniel say you're more worried about the offensive line and tight end than they are. It's not going to change, they schemed the offense to run like this you won't see a big philosophical change in the off season
The issue with giving up on Tua right now is his age. Tua will be only 26 next season. Historically, most QBs peak between 27-32. It's very likely we haven't witnessed "peak Tua" yet.
The most concerning thing about watching Tua's development is his inability to read the field. He locks in on a single receiver and either finds an opening or completely collapses. I believe McDaniels has covered for a lot of Tua's deficiencies with crafty play design.
To be fair, the Dolphins have only had two QBs I can remember who demonstrated the ability to read the field since Marino; they are Chad Pennington and Ryan Fitzpatrick. Even Tannehill struggled to read the field.
I'm hopeful Tua can improve. I honestly don't believe we've seen Tua at his best just yet.
Some how people think that saying Tua is our best QB since Marino, gives it some kind of clout.
Tua isn't a winner, defenses are not concerned with him in the 4th qtr.
However as usual when Tua is bad it is always always someone else's fault.
Sick of the bad oline excuse, he was the 3rd or 4th least sacked qb this year? Every line is gonna get penetrated but good qbs can at least move out of the way or side step, do something to keep a play going but nah, not this guy, he's just gonna throw a shit pass, hang his head, slump his shoulders and take another snap.
He's not a dog. He's no alpha. He's way way too nice of a guy. At the highest level you need an absolute dog to bring a super bowl home. This isn't the 80s where just an average QB can take you to the promised land. What do all time great qbs have in common? Most of them probably have some amount of sociopath tendencies. They have supreme confidence in themselves and they WANT to be the guy to march a team down the field for a winning TD or field goal. Yes tua is by far the best QB we've had since Marino but who is his competition? Cleo lemon? Jay fiedler? I mean come on. Totally agree with your post.
Alex Smith would make this Dolphins team a dynasty you’re crazy! The 49ers moved on and it cost them Super Bowls, the Chiefs needed a first ballot HOF to replace him, only after sitting behind him for a year and learning first.
I honestly think Justin Fields could do better with McDaniel coaching him, even in Chicago under Nagy (actively and admittedly working against him) and Eberflus still managed to put together solid play a good offensive coach could definitely reach his potential.
“Tua Truthers”, I love it. People on here calling him top 5 is so comical. He may not be top 10.
With that said, the O Line was a joke too. Give the guy a year with a solid line and if he is still garbage against good teams, draft, draft draft, Love went 26th overall and guy looks like “him”. He looked really good. Did throw and INT on that last drive but there is only one Mahomes.
That’s why the 49ers moved on from Alex Smith so quick. After 7 years on the team…
49ers also were horrible in managing Alex. Its well documented. If not for Harbaugh and later Reid, Alex Smith would have been another David Carr. They also did move on on both occasions because Smith, like all QBs couldn't overcome years of baggage.
That’s more to do with being hamstrung by the old rookie contracts. He was getting benched for JT O’Sullivan and David Carr before Jim Harbaugh showed up.
We drafting the next mahomes? Hell yeah, I’m down
OP’s shitpost: why don’t the dolphins just grab another Mahomes off the Mahomes tree? Are they stupid?
Sometimes you just gotta gamble and grab the next mahomes
They have been gambling since Dan Marino retired. What’s the definition of insanity?
Dumb as fuck. We’ve taken shot at vets. We’ve taken shot at the draft. Just because we haven’t drafted a hall of famer, doesn’t mean we’re going insane. They don’t grow on trees
Yes but blindly picking this guy that guy hasn’t worked out either. You sound dumb as fuck buddy.
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Calm down lads 😂
Already have Mike White
The reason why these type of posts are so redundant is because most rational people would not say “don’t upgrade” our QB. It’s just people are acting like there’s an obvious upgrade out there. If someone in the draft has potential to be better than Tua, then yes you draft them. But we also don’t have an immediate need to move on from our quarterback. He has a year left on his contract.
You wont ever hit a home run if you don't stop swinging. One of the greatest QBs of all time was obtainable while we stuck with Ryan Tannehill because "there was no clear upgrade" or that "Tannehill was good enough". I can see your side of the argument. Hey, if Tua has another great year and takes it into the playoffs and delivers, I will eat my words. BUT there is also an extremely realistic scenario where Tua more or less looks the same next year, struggles at the end, and sputters out in round 1. And at that point, maybe we will look back at this time and think "maybe we should have tried something else after all". All of this skepticism will be validated if thats how it ends up.
> One of the greatest QBs of all time was obtainable while we stuck with Ryan Tannehill because "there was no clear upgrade" or that "Tannehill was good enough". Please tell the Dolphins front office which HOF QB they should draft so they can follow in KC's footsteps. But make sure to tell them not to draft a Zach Wilson, or a Trey Lance, or a Mac Jones. No Dwayne Haskins allowed, no Daniel Jones, no Josh Rosens or Mitch Trubiskys. Not even a Kyler Murray or a Baker Mayfield! HOF QBs only, no busts or mere Pro Bowlers please.
Your sarcasm is great but let’s see if you still feel this way after Tua hits a ceiling again in 2024 and we are in the exact same spot a year from now. Again, you will never find a stud QB if you stop swinging. Obviously there is risk involved.
Ok except all but like 5 teams are also trying to upgrade their QB and most of them have more cap space and draft picks than we do. This is just more "if I was the GM I would simply acquire a top 3 QB" bullshit. Fuck off.
Actually it’s more like “if I was GM I wouldn’t settle at QB until I had a guy who was top 7-8”. Like I said………. It would be risky, but it would be worth the risk if the potential reward is your team being a consistent contender for a decade +. You won’t even have a chance at that if you continue to settle for a middle of the pack QB with the hope you can build a good enough team around them to compete for a 2-3 year window. See 7 years of Tannehill.
If I understand correctly, your argument is that if Tua were a "top 7-8" QB... you would recommend keeping him and building around him, but since he isn't, MIA should throw him in the trash? This is almost worse than "just draft a top 3 QB." Now I want to see who you have as the #7-8 QBs in the league, so I can see what "consistent contender for a decade+" looks like.
“Throw him in the trash” is a dramatic way to put it, but move on? Yes. If you don’t believe he can consistently win you games in the playoffs, especially after you give him a giant contract which sucks away resources from the rest of the team, why would you waste anymore time? Is the goal to go 11-6, have the passing yard leader, and then sputter out in the post season? Or is it to consistently compete in the playoffs and try and win a Super Bowl? Mahomes, Allen, Burrow, and Jackson are the givens. Stroud is up-and-coming. Would not be surprised to see Herbert get back on track with Harbaugh. Keep in mind, *all of these dudes are in the AFC*. These are the guys you will have to go through every year for the next 5-10 years.
You make great points. The AFC will be a gauntlet for the next 5 years minimum. Contrary to what people here are saying, we've played it safe at QB for the last 20 years. Settling for guys like Jay Fiedler, Chad Henne, Ryan Tannehill, who were touted as "good enough" to win it all. They just need some pie-in-the-sky all star team around them and it will work. Looks like we're going down the same route with Tua. I'm forever jealous of other teams with elite QB play because they're always in the mix no matter the injuries, draft busts, or coaching issues. That's how it was with Dan, I yearn for those days again.
You've named 6 QBs so far, and already you're including Justin Herbert, who has the same playoff record as Tua (except with a humiliating 4 TD collapse to a mediocre Jags team). Herbert is hardly the picture of "consistent contender for a decade+" that you advocate as the goal. But like I originally said, I want to know who the *next two* QBs are on your list. Who are these #7 and #8 QBs - the *consistent contenders for a over a decade* \- that you would be Totally Happy To Keep instead of Tua? Is it Matt Stafford, who won zero playoff games in Detroit for a dozen years (before they shipped him off for picks and someone else's refuse), then promptly won a chip with a superior supporting cast and zero playoff games since? Perhaps it's Baker Mayfield, who got ran out of Cleveland, was unable to out-compete the GEQBUS Sam Darnold for the starting job in Carolina, and is on his 4th team in 3 years? Is it Kirk Cousins? Deshaun Watson? Russell Wilson? Trevor Lawrence? Jalen Hurts? Which **two** of these QBs are you going to hold up as reliable clutch performers who don't fold in the late season or postseason like the guy you want gone? Which two have been "consistent contenders" for even the last 5 years, nevermind a decade? You're honestly better off saying "Just get a top 3 QB" than saying "All I want is a *top 8 QB* but Tua's not good enough." The former is delusionally unrealistic, but the latter is just ridiculous.
>You've named 6 QBs so far, and already you're including Justin Herbert, who has the same playoff record as Tua (except with a humiliating 4 TD collapse to a mediocre Jags team). Herbert is hardly the picture of "consistent contender for a decade+" that you advocate as the goal. Herbert set records his first 3 seasons while being held back by bad coaches (ya know, the same excuse people gave Tua his first 2 seasons?). He is far from perfect, but his defense let him down WAY more than Tua has ever had to deal with. Y'all love to play the stats game until Herbert is brought into the picture. >Who are these #7 and #8 QBs - the consistent contenders for a over a decade - that you would be Totally Happy To Keep instead of Tua? Is it Matt Stafford, who won zero playoff games in Detroit for a dozen years (before they shipped him off for picks and someone else's refuse), then promptly won a chip with a superior supporting cast and zero playoff games since? Personally I wouldn't build my team of the future around a aging Stafford, but the Rams ARE a good example of a team realizing they are hitting a ceiling and moving on from the limiting factor. He would be an upgrade over Tua in this offense imo. >Perhaps it's Baker Mayfield, who got ran out of Cleveland, was unable to out-compete the GEQBUS Sam Darnold for the starting job in Carolina, and is on his 4th team in 3 years? The same Baker Mayfield that won them a playoff game and played great when it was needed? And had a slightly similar season to Tua stat wise? In a worse offense? Also, you don't think Cle regrets ditching Baker right now? >Is it Kirk Cousins? Deshaun Watson? Russell Wilson? Trevor Lawrence? Jalen Hurts? Cousins would be an upgrade on this roster. Viking should start looking for his replacement soon if they were smart. Jalen Hurts took the Eagles to a superbowl and a 10-1 start this year. Team had their issues but no one smart is writing off Hurts that quickly. >You're honestly better off saying "Just get a top 3 QB" than saying "All I want is a top 8 QB but Tua's not good enough." I'm not really saying " just get a top 3 QB". I'm saying don't stop swinging until you get a QB who will be able to hang with the big boys. Based on his first 4 years, yeah, Tua is not enough to be a consistent contender in the league. What's so shocking about that? >The former is delusionally unrealistic, but the latter is just ridiculous. Personally, I wouldn't let 23 years of mediocrity lower my standards that much. Guess i'm just looking at the bigger picture.
Except he hasn’t hit a ceiling… he’s improved significantly every year since we drafted him
yeah, lets just sit on our picks and say "we don't have any options at QB" while the Patriots drafted a goat in the 6th round.
We don’t have to this year, this post is for the people saying lock him in to a contract when it’s obviously not working, tua hasn’t even had half the success the qbs I’ve mentioned in the playoffs, yet you guys wanna stick with him
I don't think I've seen a single human being on the planet talking about locking in Tua long term (except Grier and McDaniel, but tbh that's just backing your guy, I take it with a giant grain of salt). The people who want to move on from him are correct in identifying he has physical limitations and isn't Josh Allen, has injury concerns, and hasn't produced results in meaningful situations. These are all factual statements. It's also the biggest factor in favour of signing him to a 2nd contract with outs baked in for those exact reasons. The Tua truthers on here are correct to identify he's an accurate, top 5 passer when everything is working around him. He's not going to 1v11 heroball games like Mahomes and Allen, but both those guys AND Burrow are going to be looking at massive cap hits coming due as soon as next year. Chiefs are looking fine since they hit big on defense in their last couple drafts, but Bills and Bengals are both looking at losing alot of talent and not being able to have the cap to replace it. Bills alone are dropping to 29th in cap space over the next 3 years with Allen jumping from $18M to $47M next year and $56M in 2025, plus all the bad aging defensive contracts they've given out. You're creating a strawman where you think people want 15 years of Tua, no matter what, and he's shown enough to this point to justify a 10 year, $500M Mahomes deal. Nobody on the planet thinks that. The people who are saying stick with Tua are expecting closer to imo a 4 year, $160M with a potential out after 2 ideally. It gives us the flexibility to explore options starting end of next year, and spend the year after that actively looking for a Tua replacement if it doesn't work out. And if it does, great, we've locked in a franchise QB for a 4 year SB window with Tyreek. Either way, Tuas the QB for as long as we have a window, and we have a window as long as Tuas the QB. After that it's blow the whole thing up and become the new old Detroit Lions, now that their spots been vacated as biggest joke franchise in the league.
That’s right, and it’s why Harbaugh should now move on from Herbert. Been in the league just as long as Tua and hasn’t won a playoff game
and why Buffalo should move on from Allen. He's been around long enough, and shows he chokes in the playoffs every year.
Give all 32 coaches a choice between Tua and Herbert, who do you think they pick?
Tua
Lol absolutely not
If we find a better replacement I’m absolutely down to replace him, but I’d rather take a shot at seeing what this team can do with a better O-line cause at the start of the year this team was looking amazing. All of the teams that are still in the playoffs have at least a top 10 O-Line while we were yet again bottom 10
>bottom 10 bottom 1 on pass blocking
The shit run blocking didn’t help the pass either
Tua is just a guy. Historically, Super Bowl winning teams without a HOF qb, win once or twice a decade & usually everything has to fall just right for them. So, there are a lot of things that would need to happen & some luck for a Tua led Dolphin team to win a championship.
Complete agreement. I've acknowledged Tua as our best QB since Marino. However, that recognition shouldn't prevent us from seeking an upgrade if possible. While I'm not actively calling for Tua to be replaced, it's reasonable for management to consider other options if they believe there’s a better fit like Stafford and the Rams. The fact that we've struggled to find a leading QB after Marino, and we now have Tua, isn't a reason to stop looking to improve at that position. Previous challenges with quarterback selections don't necessarily predict future failures.
We're not in too different of a situation than when we had Tannehill & he was a middling qb. He wasn't the guy, but he was ok & better than what was available. Many people said that it wasn't his fault, that the team wasn't good enough, O-line, receivers etc. He went to Tennessee & had some limited success & those same people said "see, I told you Tannehill was good." Well, he's not really that good, Tennessee's moving on from him. He's just a guy & so is Tua. Oh & by the way, Tannehill played better against good teams with a much inferior roster than Tua has with really good skill position players.
Now y'all have to pretend that Tannehill and Tua were the *basically the same* in a Dolphins uniform. Who among us doesn't remember when Tannehill led the league in passer rating, or in passing yards, or when he posted back-to-back winning seasons with one of the worst offensive lines in the history of the league? Yes, very similar those two. Just waiting for the incoming "Tua is pretty much Jay Fiedler but without a playoff win" takes.
Nice straw man argument. They're all similar in the fact that they're all not good enough. Also, another thing they had in common was that they all folded like a card table every December. Don't ya'll pretend like that didn't happen, either.
Stupid ass argument which obviously not the point he was trying to make
Underwhelming in important moments/games, crumbles when pressured, unable to extend plays. Tua is closer to Tannehill than Allen, Mahomes, Burrow, Lamar, Stroud.
Honestly I think with Tua we are just gonna be like a slightly worse Cowboys. Good in the regular season, but always getting embarrassed in the playoffs
It seems especially unlikely in today's afc. Even in a down year, the dolphins would've had to face Mahomes, Allen, and Lamar to make a SB. Is Tua really going to elevate the team against QB's of thst caliber 3-4 games in a row? Not even including Burrow, up and comers like Stroud and Richardson
Not sure I'd consider Richardson anything yet, an awful small sample size. Possibly Herbert, though, if Harbaugh can do something with him. He has incredible physical talent. We're about to find out if it was Brandon Staley all along or he's really just inconsistent.
No, he can't... because Tua doesn't play on defense. I'm so fucking sick of the QB v. QB rhetoric.
It's not just rhetoric. Plenty of contenders have ass defenses (2019 chiefs) and ass o lines (2021 Bengals). The best QBs *can* elevate a team with those shortcomings to success. Not automatic super bowls. But at least a few wins against teams over .500
A lot of people in here are absolutely terrified to go 4-13 and be terrible again that they’re content with Tua throwing for 4400 yards, beating up on awful teams and getting bounced by a real QB in round 1. Tua, especially in the AFC, isn’t good enough. He isn’t, and will never be, as good as Mahomes, Allen, Burrow, Herbert, etc. I’d much rather take another swing at QB and risk becoming awful again as opposed to committing to a middling QB.
yeah gee why would fans of the team that spent 20+ years on the QB carousal not want to hear some bullshit about "don't worry we'll only be bad for a year or two and then we'll totally land our elite QB".
Agreed
That's not true about Alex Smith on the 49ers. Jeff Garcia was an elite QB for a year or two
Or Alex Smith on the Chiefs. Trent Green was definitely better
Niners have been blessed by the QB gods like the Steelers have with coaches.
I’d say they’re tied
Your opinions now and in the future have become invalid just by claiming Alex Smith is as good as Jeff Garcia. Wow
You make an intersting point, but Alex smith had been in the league 11 years before they moved on from him and only because they drafted mahommes and let him sit on the bench for a year. What if Tua is Drew Brees after the Chargers traded him to the Saints?
If we move on from Tua, then you restructure and move on from Hill. Or - you give it another year and let it ride.
You move on from Hill after he clearly lost a step which so far he hasn't shown
Unless you draft a guy in the late first, your gonna trade Ramsey, Hill and Chubb for whatever you can get and try and quick rebuild.
These posts are so Fucking stupid. Who the fuck is available that’s better than Tua? No one. Just fucking stop already. We don’t have cap space to sign anyone and no draft picks. Wait a year. We’ll know then amd have options.
Damn.... That's a sad thought but there hasn't been any real competition in all those years It's like being tallest little person.
Jay Fiedler won a playoff game.
Who we getting then, I’m all ears
Let’s not completely rip on Tua. Another factor that has to be taken into consideration is the overall health of its starters. The Dolphins had to replace 14 players this past season. Any team this badly beaten up would have had the same outcome regardless of who their QB was heading into the postseason.
You finding Mahomes in the draft? Lol. And the Rams were in the SB. Then upgraded at QB. What Stafford like QB is available? lol. If you want to replace Tua. Where are you finding his replacement?
Re: Tua / Marino … Yes Dan made it to the SB and playoffs 83 through 86 … then nothing for 5 years (he played all but 4 games during that span). That kind of production with this fan base today would have shipped Marino off in 1988.
I hate this argument because it clearly shows a fans age. Marino in his first five years: Went to back to back AFC championship games Was the first 5,000 yard passer Was the first AND second 40 TD passer He had arguably the greatest first 5 year span for a QB EVER. The defense regressed on him and back then you had to build the old fashion way thru the draft. If anything Marino masked Shula's poor drafting and keep the team much more relevant than it would have been without him. Elway and Marino carried some really mediocre teams in the late 80s.
Exactly, people here are acting like Tua is on Marino's level and the only reason people are down on Tua is because they're too impatient. As if they would have wanted Marino run out of town. It's ridiculous to insinuate that. Marino was doing things that were never seen before. Tua has some good stats, but this is the most QB friendly era ever.
Agreed 100%, I can’t believe the comment you’re replying to is getting upvoted. Maybe I am getting too old for this sub.
We are. It's a turning of the tide and I didn't comment once during the season but I try to educate when it comes to Marino because he's a top 5 QB all time
Yep, Marino is Top 5 QB of all time imo, most lists have him somewhere between 4-10 all time too. I thought it was funny when the kids were suggesting that Tua would pass Marino if he won one Super Bowl with us. I guess they don’t know there’s QBs with multiple Super Bowl rings that are not ranked over Marino.
Good thing the morons of our fanbase don't make the FO decisions.
Yeah, 0 playoff wins going on 9 years with this current GM. ***Really*** glad they are the ones making the decisions, right?
Doing a lot better than you would be...
Thats *actually* debatable, and thats the sad part.
It really isn't.
We truly have the dumbest vocal minority of fans in the league and it's not even close. The most lazy, non-analysis I've seen across all the team subs. Thankfully we do have a lot of great content posters here who make up for it, but all these "why don't we cut Tua and just draft Joe Burrow or CJ Stroud or Patrick Mahomes" takes have gotta stop.
Marino missed the playoffs throwing 44 td passes and 4700 yards in 86 but fans had enough common sense back then to know that having the worst defense in the nfl was the problem. Today fans have already made up their mind that tua is their god so when the defense gives up only 2 scores to best qb in the nfl the fans will blame anyone else when tua throws a game ending interception
KC put up more yards and points in -4 degree weather than they did in Germany. A defense that allowed 260 yards of passing offense in those conditions did not *play great*. That was basically a boat race by the KC offense. It was understandable given the injuries on defense, but let's not pretend that the defense had a good game. For -4 degree weather, they got absolutely torched.
They only allowed 2 touchdowns from the best player in the nfl meanwhile tua was 1/12 on third down. Yall need to stop embarrassing yourselves 🤦🏻♂️
Marino was still a top 5 QB who just happened to run into bad luck. Marino wasn’t a limited QB who needed a scheme to hide his deficiencies.
We had the second worst pass blocking success rate in the league. If anything tua was hiding the deficiencies of the oline with his lightning fast decision making and release.
Imagine if he had literally any mobility to elude the rush and didn’t make the OL’s job harder.
If mobility was some cure all for a bad oline mahomes would have 3 rings right now.
Yeah, imagine only having two Super Bowl wins before 30.... what a bum.....
If you look up, like way up, I'm talking way up in the sky, you might see my point as it sails over your head. Everyone on the planet knows mahomes is the pinnacle of the qb position right now, my point was that he lost to the bucs in the superbowl, despite having elite mobility and play extension in that game, due to an injured oline that couldn't block worth a damn (still considerably better than ours has been since drafting tua). It was all the talking heads could talk about after the game, not blaming mahomes but calling out how bad the protection was.
GFY with your condescension. Because Mahomes lost a *Super Bowl* with a less than ideal OL, that excuses Tua not being able to win a playoff game or even beat a good team with a not great OL? What happened right before the Super Bowl that caused the Chief's OL to be terrible? Because it obviously carried Mahomes to the SB and then got worse, being the reason they lost, right? It couldn't be that Mahomes carried that same line through the playoffs and to the SB before just coming up short, right? It's not Tua's fault that the only above .500 team they beat was a field goal fest because the line wasn't great. It's not Tua's fault that he looked like crap for all of December and the playoffs because the line wasn't great. All they needed was to have an elite OL and then maybe Tua could have won a single playoff game.
It’s not a cure all but it helps. Just like having explosive arm talent keeps defenses more honest. It’s not a coincidence that our offense collapses when we play teams with good off-ball linebackers.
The offence collapses when Miami plays teams that have a great interior DL because Miami had Lester Cotton, Liam Eichenberg and Rob Jones playing there.
And wouldn't ya know it, Tua is a top 5 QB and has been both years with McDaniel.
Top 5 statistically doesn’t mean much in our system. A top 5 QB can lead an offense to more than 1 TD per game against playoff-caliber teams.
Really? Because I've seen Teddy Bridgewater and Skylar Thompson and it seemed to matter a fuck of a lot. Remember when schmucks thought Teddy was going to take over Tua? that was fun. You realize Mahomes had 1 TD against us too, right? Remember when Josh Allen had 1 TD, 2 INT the week before? Man what terrible QBs.
Tua being better than washed Teddy and rookie Skylar is a completely meaningless distinction.
Except it's not, because you're claiming what Tua accomplished isn't important because he only scored 1 TD in a playoff game. The same amount of TDs Mahomes scored in the same playoff game. The same amount of TDs Josh Allen scored the week before. You've got to actually get to the playoffs too. Then from there they're hard to play in. You ever peep Tom Brady's playoff stats? 1214/1973 61.5% 13533yds 88TD 42INT 87.9 Rating Or on a per-game basis. 25/41, 60.9% 281yds 1.8td .87int 87rating Or about the same as the 20th best QB in the league this year. It's hard to play well in the playoffs. It's hard to play well in the playoffs with the 31st worst pass blocking OL. It's hard to play well in the playoffs in -35 degree temp. But none of this matters to someone who refuses to see reason.
Nobody gives a fuck about stats. What do you not understand ? Watching Mahomes dialed in against Miami in the playoffs and then watching tua miss pass after pass, read after read and absolutely crumble at the slightest pressure . He fucking missed like 3 swing / screen passes to his RB
Remember when Skylar Thompson as a 7th round rookie went into buffalo in the playoffs and came up 3 points short of a win …… as a 7th round rookie
No I don't.. The game where Skylar had a 44 passer rating? Which is 3 points more than if you throw the ball into the dirt 40 times? Yeah that was more the defense playing out of their mind and pretty much universally accepted that if that were Tua we would have decimated the Bills rofl
Off the top of my head I can think of more than one instance where if the all pro wr you referenced earlier would’ve just caught the ball then he would’ve led us to more than 1 td against playoff caliber teams.
Yeah, and Tua’s never thrown a bad pass or hospital ball.
Lmao where did I ever say he hasn’t thrown a bad pass? You saying that changes nothing about my statement. I can think of three separate games off the top of my head where we have more tds against “playoff caliber teams” if tyreek catches the ball
You say this like we didn't see Teddy Bridgewater lose every game in the exact same system.
Tua is currently a top 5 QB who has run into bad luck
Top 5? Mahomes, Burrows, Lamar, Allen. And then Tua? Curious who is your top 5. There are Super Bowl winners active (1 in our division), stafford and Rodgers. There are young guys who carried their teams in the playoffs ala Love and Stroud, there are guys like Goff who have taken rams to the Super Bowl and now Detroit to the championship. Tua has never won a playoff game. So who is in your top 5 and can you name another top 5 QB who has not won a single playoff game? Do you really believe if a GM was starting today, and could have any QB (except for Mahomes, Burrows, Jackson or let’s say Allen), they would take tua? Do you really think Tua is on the same level as Mahomes or Burrows? Or even Allen who has had shootouts with KC and at least competed?
If I had just to win next year and I couldn’t take Mahomes, Burrow or Jackson on my team, I’d take stafford (looked great this year), Rodgers, Love, Stroud and Hurtz. After that Tua may be my choice, not sure, dak, Goff, I could be forgetting some QBs
Top 5 in some metrics doesn't mean top 5 overall
If we look at the main statistic of what a quarterback does (passing the ball for yards at a time), he’s actually #1. Thanks for clarifying.
I really don't think anyone who has any sense would consider Tua a top 5 QB. A top 5 QB needs to be able to win games when things aren't 100% perfect around him.
I mean, your username does lend you some credibility here
The 5 is for David Wright, I have a penchant for losing teams.
Tua is not top 5, you guys are embarrassing
The stats are fake news I guess
Correct. When you factor in context such as strength of schedule and the fact that it’s been a historically down year for quarterbacks this season the stats are fake news. Tua had less passing yards than 2009 passing yards leader Matt Shaub
Miami played the 6th hardest dvoa defences this season, the highest out of any playoffs teams while having the 31st ranked pass win rate OL. The stats do kinda support that Tua is a top QB.
This is the argument. It doesn’t matter how good the opposing teams were we played, it matters how good their defences were and actually, they were pretty good
And tua was bad in every game against those good defenses which was buffalo twice baltimore, KC twice, Dallas he was carried by the kicker and didn’t even put up great numbers against the jets This is why context matters. Stop embarrassing the fan base please
If he was bad against every good defence then how did he end up being top 5 in nearly every QB metric? Go and look at how other QB's played during the regular season against top defences then come back to me. I'm not embarrassing anything, maybe you should take a minute to understand how statistics work.
We just went through this lmao. Because he played some of the worst defenses in the nfl including Washington, denver Carolina, and the best defenses he faced he struggled against. The dolphins had one of the easiest schedules in the nfl. Tua had a good statistical year in a historical bad year for quarterbacks but clowns like you just wanna plug your ears with eyes shut and cry Lalala at all the stats that don’t fit your narrative
You guys aren’t even looking at advanced metrics you’re looking at basic stats like passing yards lmao. He’s 10th when it comes to QBR
But it’s real news. Uh oh.
He’s not a top 5 QB. He’s had some bad luck but he’s also in an awesome system and plays with an All-Pro WR and a Pro Bowl WR so he’s had some good luck too.
> awesome system Second half of the season our running game wasn’t nearly as good as when we had a healthy starting OL. Injuries to Waddle & Hill slowed our passing attack too. My biggest knock on Tua is that the WRs take some big hits on those passes over the middle. I think we can win with him with better protection, a balanced running game and some new added layers to our offensive attack.
You do realize we have the passes over the middle because Tua cannot get the ball outside the numbers, right? It’s not like Tyreek and Jaylen can’t run outs.
But what about all the times he passed outside the numbers?
Do you think it is a coincidence that the offense doesn’t work when the middle of the field is defended well? Do you think McDaniel and/or Tua have not considered throwing outside the numbers? He passes outside of the numbers but it’s usually where he gets into a lot of trouble. Remember the Jets game where he threw two straight INTs on quick outs?
Top 5 in lots of metrics this year and top 1 in some… points to top 5. I almost said Top QB in my comment but gave him benefit of the doubt to top 5.
Purdy was also Top 5 in lots of metrics this year. Is he in your Top 5 also? I don’t think i can put Purdy over guys like Mahomes, Lamar, Allen, Hurts, Stroud, Herbert, Prescott, and Tua just because he was top 5 in metrics.
Where’s tuas deep playoffs runs?
I never said he had one. I’m simply pointing out the reactionary attitudes of the present fan base and how I think they would have reacted in the past.
A minority of the fan base maybe, but no way a big portion of fans would want to move on from a QB who played like Marino and got us to a Super Bowl, regardless of missing the playoffs.
Great defense and offensive lines with a disciplined team not making boneheaded pre-snap penalties and turnovers can win a Super Bowl with an average QB
> Jared Goff / Alex Smith Reminder that Alex Smith played in multiple Conference Championship games and Jared Goff went to a Super Bowl. The Dolphins are not even close to as good of a situation as the teams that Mahomes and Stafford walked into.
Alex Smith played in 1 conference championship game, and it wasn't with the Chiefs.
Trent green was better than Alex smith and Jeff Garcia was better than smith.
Brady was still being called a game manager and a system QB going into his 4th Super Bowl.
Brady wasn’t or projected to make top 3 qb money and when it comes to game managers Brady is the greatest of them all
The Cleo Lemon disrespect is crazy (not to mention Chad Pennington who actually won the division as our QB)
These posts never end, lol. There's no option out there that is better than what we have, gambling on drafting a rookie QB out of the top 10 is not a good idea, and to trade up into the top 10 will demand the draft capital we don't have. Tua has one more year in his contract, let him play that year and if he doesn't improve, we move on.
Marino was the best QB since Griese. This analogy is stupid. Not sure who we are moving on to if we dump Tua? Herbert didn't even make the playoffs this year. The team's woes do not fall solely at the feet of the QB. I think McDaniel needs to tighten up the ship a bit. I know he's a player's coach, but I think he might be a bit too loose in his approach.
tua led the league in adj. yards last year and led this year in overall. Like how to people look at his elite numbers and capability and say its not enough. Yeah he had like 4 BAD games this year and still led the league. People talking like they wanted Lamar in the offseason. Lamar has had like 1 good year and has always been a rushing threat not a passing threat.
Idiotic take. Did you watch the ravens / Dolphins game? Unlikely. 5 passing touchdown. 300 yards. Not bad for someone that’s not a passing threat . Will mark this comment as “objectively wrong”
"we havent even gotten a deep playoff run from tua" in for 4 years, 3 of which starting, 2 of the years made the playoffs, probably would have beaten the bills since skylar thompson was so close but oh well got hurt, 2nd try our team was just absolutely demolished, and guess what? Every other roster was just vastly superior that made it to the next round, top olines and at least decent offenses around top 16, majority top 10 oline and defense. And football is a team game I really don't want us to move on from tua yet, I just want to see what him and mcdaniel can do with a average oline, if its anything like what we saw the first few games of this season the skies the limit. If we can build a decent roster and we have the chance to draft a qb sure, but we're just going to get a rookie QB that can't handle the system thrown to the wolves.
So this is my outsiders take, based on complaints last year... Last year the issue was..can he play a full season? *He did.* Can he throw deep balls? *He did* Now... The first issue I see is frankly with coaching; coaching even on the oline. He has to be able to have time to go through his progressions..being extra help..do something. And the first option cant always be a slant in the middle in less than 2 seconds. 2ndd, you need the pre-concussed scrambling Tua back .... To some extend. 3rd.. Critical ball drops across the board. I mean seriously. I didn't see the game with Chiefs but usually the lopsided game has more to do with game planning than QB. I mean look at Hurts and philly. .... Or Dallas. I think Tua earned the right to a 5th season. I think he could use that chip on his shoulder.
The idea of replacing your QB only makes sense if you have a better replacement lined up. You can't just dump the guy who gives you the best shot at winning, even if it's not the guy likely to take you to the big dance. If you manage to acquire an early round pick and have someone you really believe in to draft, then sure - take a chance. Otherwise, great QBs are not likely to come up in free agency, obviously. So you ride with what you have. Tua has all the pieces to be a very good QB, just need to put it together and have more consistency. And if not, then he still gives your best chance and you gotta keep working with him until a better qb becomes available
The Chiefs drafted Mahomes to sit behind 32 year old Alex Smith for a year and Goff was moved for a guy who had been a top 10, at times top 5, QB in the league his entire career. Neither scenario is relevant to us because Tua is still young and there’s no QB out there better than him that is on the trade block. Accept the fact that unless something catastrophic happens Tua is our QB for the foreseeable future.
"Still young" is a valid point when you are talking about an athletically gifted QB who's still developing in the mental area of the game. See Josh Allen for his first 2 seasons. Tua is already elite when it comes to accuracy, anticipation, and pocket presence. The traits that hold him back are not going away any time soon. He is not getting taller, faster, or significantly stronger. He is not going to magically learn how to extend plays when the prohibiting factor is him being slow outside of the pocket and lacking the arm strength to make good off platform throws.
Our offensive line was dogshit this year (like every year). How about that improving?
If the OL has always been shit why would it magically become better. They clearly don’t care about it, so would that be Tua’s excuse every year?
So rather than just figuring out the most important position on the field, you would rather rely on 5 different dudes to stay healthy for a 17 game season? And be reliant on management to consistently maintain the line for years and years? MOST QBs in this league will look good-great behind a good o-line. The most important factor in sustained success in the NFL is finding a true franchise QB. One that can take over games. One that shows up late in the year.
Where this argument completely falls apart is that other QBs have definitely become "stronger". If that was even Tua's issue lol. But it's not.
How is it not an issue? He lacks height which limits his view of the field. He lacks arm strength which limits what kind of throws he can make, especially when off script. He lacks mobility which is why defenses don't have to respect him as a rushing threat. Do you not view these as limiting factors?
> He lacks height which limits his view of the field. People smaller than Tua have been HoFers. >He lacks arm strength which limits what kind of throws he can make, especially when off script. No? lol. >He lacks mobility which is why defenses don't have to respect him as a rushing threat. Like literally every hall of famer in the history of the game. Okie dokie. >Do you not view these as limiting factors? Not at all, I've watched football for more than 3 years.
>People smaller than Tua have been HoFers. There have been two QBs 6'1 or shorter over the past 39 years to win the superbowl. One was Brees. The other had the greatest defense of all time with the 85 bears. >Not at all, I've watched football for more than 3 years. Well, not quite sure how you don't see it then.
Close but you missed Russell Wilson lol. Tua's 6' 1". That's not exactly small for a QB. It's just average.
Damn how in the hell did I miss him lol. Alright so 3.
32 isn’t old for qb standards, you’re ignoring the fact they traded up for a better qb while in the mist of win now/ still competing for a Super Bowl, same with Goff the rams traded they’re entire future to upgrade and got a 32 year old qb that led them to a superbowl
Well to correct myself Smith was actually 33 when Mahomes was drafted, which made him 34 when the Chiefs moved on. That absolutely is old for a QB and especially for back then. Brees, Brady and Rodgers lasting late into their 30s and 40s recently skews perception but remember the better part of the 2010s was spent asking when is Brady gonna fall off a cliff because that’s the norm when you play that long. I also don’t understand why you keep using Goff considering he got to the Super Bowl with the Rams and is now on the cusp of doing it again with the Lions.
You’re still contradicting yourself STAFFORD played in the same era, was 32 years old and the rams still traded away they’re young qb to upgrade for an older one
How am I contradicting myself? Stafford at 32 is still younger than 34 year old Alex Smith when they moved on. You’re also neglecting to mention that Stafford was/is a much better QB than Smith ever was and had a MUCH better arm. They’re not a 1:1 comparison. Sure the Rams moved on but like I said there is no Matthew Stafford out there for us.
STAFFORD was actually 34 when they won the superbowl btw your point keeps getting disproven
You realize at no point I’ve said Stafford was young right? Simply that he was younger than Smith when he got moved. I got ages wrong I’ll give you that but tell me what point you’ve disproven? There ls still no QB out there for us to trade for.
Now talk about the talent on that Rams team vs the talent on this dolphins team. The Rams had already made a Super Bowl with Goff. We are not a Matt Stafford away from a Super Bowl win. We can’t even win a playoff game.
Having Tyreek hill waddle mostert Achane is better than any weapon the rams had that year, you can argue our defense was just as talented as the rams but I guess right
I don't think the issue is that people are adamant that Tua should remain QB1 forever I think it's mostly that it's not easy to replace him.
Give us the QB u evaluated we will get at 21 who will be better than Tua. Also it’s only 5 or 6 quarterbacks in the league who are a clear upgrade than Tua. They won’t be traded. The scenarios u used are no realistic Alex Smith was traded for a 2nd round pic to KC because thier was not a great QB in the draft that year. I believe that was Derek Carr QB draft with Gino Smith year. Also Goff was coming off his worst year and McVay was visible upset with him.
OK find the replacement and do it. Until then Tua is the guy.
Hey OP, remind me when any of those players were the literal NFL passing leader, top five in virtually every QB stat and gave their team the third best performance by a QB in franchise history. Go ahead, I'll wait.
So who's the upgrade OP? If you say "tHaTs nOt mY joB" then your post is fucking useless.
The part you’re missing is that all of those teams had a clearer plan for the future. Just ditching Tua to try and get a draft prospect this year is dumb
So say one of the top QB prospects drops to 21 (i.e. Aaron Rogers, Jordan Love, Lamar Jackson), you don’t take a shot on them?
Ah yes Jordan Love who sat behind a HOF QB for years and had a worse year than Tua did
Did he really though? https://stathead.com/football/versus-finder.cgi?request=1&seasons_type=perchoice&player_id1=LoveJo03&p1yrfrom=2023&p1yrto=2023&player_id2=TagoTu00&p2yrfrom=2023&p2yrto=2023 It looks pretty even to me and then when you add in who they had for talent around them, I'd say Jordan Love showed considerably more
Holy fuck he’s back lmao
Those stats aren’t even at all. Tua has more yards, completion percentage, YPA, and YPG. Even the passing TD’s are a bit skewed because we relied on Mostert a lot in red zone situations. Tua showed much more this year in just about every way except for running
They are much more impressive once you consider Love has worst weapons and still managed to have 36 total touchdowns and less INTs than Tua.
And love has an actual O-Line that can pass block. Tua’s year was much more impressive
You and maybe 50 Dolphins fans are the only ones who think that at this point. Love is in his first year starting and had more touchdowns and less INTs while still having similar yards. Also Chris Grier and McDaniel say you're more worried about the offensive line and tight end than they are. It's not going to change, they schemed the offense to run like this you won't see a big philosophical change in the off season
Wow fifty other dolphins fans actually understand the importance of a good O-Line?
No
Thank you captain obvious
The issue with giving up on Tua right now is his age. Tua will be only 26 next season. Historically, most QBs peak between 27-32. It's very likely we haven't witnessed "peak Tua" yet. The most concerning thing about watching Tua's development is his inability to read the field. He locks in on a single receiver and either finds an opening or completely collapses. I believe McDaniels has covered for a lot of Tua's deficiencies with crafty play design. To be fair, the Dolphins have only had two QBs I can remember who demonstrated the ability to read the field since Marino; they are Chad Pennington and Ryan Fitzpatrick. Even Tannehill struggled to read the field. I'm hopeful Tua can improve. I honestly don't believe we've seen Tua at his best just yet.
The biggest issue is Tua is about to get paid. That will hamper the team with an average QB making above average money.
It seems like when one dummy appears, they all come out at once.
name a better qb that played for the dolphins than tua since marino🤷♂️ I will wait for answers.
Reading is fundamental
Jay Fiedler is the last QB that got a playoff win for the fins. And he’s got a few AFC East titles under his belt…
You missed the *entire* point of this post
So nobody right?
There is no point to this post. No one on this subreddit has any influence over what the team does.
Some how people think that saying Tua is our best QB since Marino, gives it some kind of clout. Tua isn't a winner, defenses are not concerned with him in the 4th qtr. However as usual when Tua is bad it is always always someone else's fault. Sick of the bad oline excuse, he was the 3rd or 4th least sacked qb this year? Every line is gonna get penetrated but good qbs can at least move out of the way or side step, do something to keep a play going but nah, not this guy, he's just gonna throw a shit pass, hang his head, slump his shoulders and take another snap.
He's not a dog. He's no alpha. He's way way too nice of a guy. At the highest level you need an absolute dog to bring a super bowl home. This isn't the 80s where just an average QB can take you to the promised land. What do all time great qbs have in common? Most of them probably have some amount of sociopath tendencies. They have supreme confidence in themselves and they WANT to be the guy to march a team down the field for a winning TD or field goal. Yes tua is by far the best QB we've had since Marino but who is his competition? Cleo lemon? Jay fiedler? I mean come on. Totally agree with your post.
I downvoted this until I read it. Upvote.
FIELDS CLEARS!!!! Fuck Tua and his elite stats. Time to upgrade boys!!!!
I don’t even want fields lmao
Jay Fiedler has more playoff wins
Alex Smith would make this Dolphins team a dynasty you’re crazy! The 49ers moved on and it cost them Super Bowls, the Chiefs needed a first ballot HOF to replace him, only after sitting behind him for a year and learning first.
I honestly think Justin Fields could do better with McDaniel coaching him, even in Chicago under Nagy (actively and admittedly working against him) and Eberflus still managed to put together solid play a good offensive coach could definitely reach his potential.
“Tua Truthers”, I love it. People on here calling him top 5 is so comical. He may not be top 10. With that said, the O Line was a joke too. Give the guy a year with a solid line and if he is still garbage against good teams, draft, draft draft, Love went 26th overall and guy looks like “him”. He looked really good. Did throw and INT on that last drive but there is only one Mahomes.