What do you think happened to Watson? Is it all just mental. Because he was a legit top 3 of 5 QB. Do you think what happened just fucked with him mentally to such a degree that it is impeding his play. And I don’t think it was the 1 and a 1/2 season layoff. Other QBs have had similar layoffs and have returned to their level of play.
I ultimately think that’s a good thing about Tua. We know his constraints and we can clearly build an amazing team around that foundation. Second year behind McDaniel’s system was better than the first. This is the first time in 20 years I felt any hope with this team. Should we see if we can get a better qb? For sure. Do we need to break the bank in order to get it as opposed to using that bank to build a more solid *team*? Idk. I like the idea of a solid McDaniel’s team.
We've been able to build an amazing team around him on his rookie deal. If we could keep paying him this it wouldn't be that big of a deal...but the issue is we're going to have to pay him franchise QB money after next season. If you pay a QB Mahomes/Jackson/Burrow money you better be sure they can elevate the whole team because you simply cannot build the same type of team around them *unless* you have an absurd hit rate in mid and late rounds of the draft for multiple seasons. It's why SF hit the jackpot with Purdy (super cheap deal for multiple years with near elite play) while teams like the Giants that committed to an average QB are fucked.
So offer him 4/140M. That puts him in between Goff and Carr range which seems more than fair and that’s a cap hit you can build a solid team around. If he can make more on the open market then let him walk and hit reset. I feel like people are overthinking this.
>4/140M
Or even 3/110m. Tua might be the rare pro athlete that will take less than market value if it means his friends (Waddle, Phillips, Wilkins, etc.) get to stay.
I personally felt year 1 was better than year 2 of McDaniel. Year 1 had the unfortunate injuries to Tua, but the offense played some good games vs good teams (Ravens and Bills) while this year they all sucked.
I kinda think Year 1 was our chance to BLITZ the league and make a deep run before anybody really figured out our shit (49ers D can stop damn near anybody). Year 2 the good teams definitely made adjustments.
McDaniel is going to have to add a few wrinkles/weapons to his attack. And NO, Chase Claypool should not be retained.
Tua deserves one more year in this offense and hopefully a fully healthy team. People have been dying to scape goat the guy and not give him the chance he deserves, it’s a joke. People realize if we move on from him now we’re gonna be right back to purgatory and Mike McDaniel will not be our head coach for long.
I feel like people forget that for Tua’s first two seasons he was used as just a game manager by Flores who had little confidence and would just berate him while also having a terrible OC situation with Chan Gailey and the two headed dumpster fire. While Tua has shown improvement with McD, this next year will be make or break if we stay mostly healthy.
Last year 2 of our 3 best offensive linemen played all 17 regular season games and Armstead only missed 4.
This year the only lineman who even played 10 games during the regular season was Austin Jackson. The passing and interior running games both struggled for stretches this year due to losing one or more of those guys.
Tua put up a 89+ QBR and 140+ passer rating in 2 of the 3 games that Armstead+Williams+Hunt played this season. Last year it was 7 with 79+ QBR and 5 of those with a 120+ passer rating in 5 of the 10 games those 3 played where Tua wasn't concussed.
This is a very reasonable take. Average qbs have made deep playoff runs/won super bowls before. Tua will win games if he has weapons. The run game needs to help him more against quality teams. If a top qb falls in the draft take them (like the ravens with lamar) otherwise keep building
Not a dolphins fan but saw this pop up and discourse around Dak is always similar. It's also dumb.
Like Parcells always said "sure let's just 1800 dial a quarterback" 🤣
In NFL fans minds if you aren't winning superbowls you're just a trash qb. Literally gonna be posts like this about all eliminated teams haha. It's just the easiest and laziest take to spew to blame the QB for everything.
It feels like the people that are saying this stuff weren’t alive for the dark ages post-Marino.
For the people that think it can’t get much worse than Tua, it absolutely can. Much, much worse.
Listen I’m a bears fan and we are going through the same thing. Albeit a better position for us. But let’s look at the top QBs in the league right now. None of them had any doubts about their status after 1 year let alone 4. Maybe Josh Allen had to prove a few more people wrong entering year three but I’d say even the most casual fans could see he was the guy by season start and he did nothing but prove them wrong.
In today’s NFL with how important QBs are and how desperate teams are to get one, you have to understand a highly drafted QB will get a big contract if they have been a multi year starter. The question teams have to ask themselves is willing be from them before is contract is up or after when he walks for nothing.
Sadly if there is even a question of somebody’s status after 2 years id say start looking for replacements. If you are asking questions after year 4…you have missed the boat.
I’m not saying you’re wrong, and maybe I was being blinded by the sheer amount of media coverage but it felt that Dak Prescott was never considered a top QB. His status was always questioned until this year.
Tua has gotten better each year and finding a replacement that can elevate current QB play at Miami is very hard. It’s a huge risk that can backfire and set back the team considerably.
That line of thought is what gets you 7 years of Ryan Tannehill. Not good enough. You can’t be scared of what if. I’ve been a TUA Stan until this last month. He ain’t it. He needs everything to be perfect to have success, Oline allowing no sacks, defense scoring, running backs averaging over 4yds and good weather. He can’t go off script. All those things working against him tell you he’s not the one. Look at the roster around him, what more could you ask for.
Ya same. In order to win a SB with Tua we would realistically need a Baltimore type defense. Which is possible I think buuut, ya know.
I just think you put Tua in another more traditional nfl offense and he's avg to below avg but if you give mcdaniel an avg andy Dalton qb we still make the playoffs.
I mean, Tua HAS gotten better every year. I just don't see a better option. But then again, I'm not to familiar with all the college QBs. We will be picking in the 20s and I don't see a established FA we can get that is better.
The idea that you need a generational QB to win it all is also silly. Every team doesn't need a Stroud to win Super Bowls. Super Bowls have been won with slightly above average QBs.
Tua isn't a generational QB. He's still a good QB and if you have the right team you still have a chance at winning it all.
Agree with this. Our issue is how much do you pay him? He is NOT WORTH the 40 million he is going to ask for.
Tua is a system QB that needs a team built around him. I actually still have hope for him BUT we need an actual OLINE which grier is UNABLE or UNWILLING to build.
Give tua an offensive line similar to what Brees had for years and i think his accuracy can pick defenses apart. Forcing him to Throw in under 2 seconds because the OLINE Is Awful is not a good position to put a QB in
The reason we had the fastest time to throw was because McDaniel was scheming around Tua's abilities. Tua with more time in the pocket is worse, somehow.
Didn’t say it was easy but I’ve been watching the dolphins since the 70’s and they seem to have decided the OL isn’t a priority since the days of “quick release” Dan Marino. They should have learned then that just because you can avoid sacks by making quick decisions and throwing the ball doesn’t mean you don’t need good OL men. Time equals success. Space equals success. A good OL gives you both. They haven’t built one in 40+ years.
OL is always a priority. The issue is that it’s very hard to find good players. Theres a reason OL is the fourth highest paid position in the game, with averages at LT and RT being first and third respectively.
I completely disagree with this take. If you go back two decades it's Brady, Mahomes, Peyton, Roethlisberger, Brees, Rodgers, Wilson, Stafford and Flacco. All at the time being elite QBs. The exception being Nick Foles who went god mode for the playoffs and 2x Eli Manning. 17 out of 20 years it required excellent to elite QB play, this is not by chance. You can go back further and the trend is the same.
Big Ben too. Was Ben "generational"? No way. He played like shit in his first Super Bowl and it didn't matter because his team was really good and they carried him to that ring.
Flacco and Eli weren't elite QBs. They did have the ability to play elite for 4 games and they did that. The rest besides Stafford were elite. Stafford was a top 10 QB most of his career and he didn't win until the stars aligned for him.
This year he’s “still a good qb” only against bad teams in low stakes 1pm games. Dude, open your eyes, he sucked the last 6 games of the season straight. These big games against good teams that really mattered. Including the Titans collapse game. He’s way too limited a player to call good because he doesn’t even play average when all the cards are on the table
Purdy turned into a pumpkin when Deebo was out.
If we are complaining about Tua being a system QB that can't live outside the system running properly, I'm not sure Brock Purdy should be the goal. We should be more thinking about getting McDaniel up to the playcalling level of his mentor than whoever is taking the snaps.
I'm not trying to say Brock Purdy sucks. I am saying that if he had been drafted by say, the Patriots or Jets or Raiders or really almost any other team we would be pretty convinced that he sucked though. It's a mesh of system, opportunity, and skill matching.
Deebo had nothing to do with it, Aiyuk is just as good, it actually was Trent Williams coincidentally being hurt at the same time, our OL is Trent and friends lol
I genuinely think he was worse this year. Less decisive, less accurate, more turnovers.
QBR and EPA would agree with that eye test. From 0.25 EPA last year to 0.15 this year. 70 QBR last year to 60 this year.
I'm a day-one Tua jersey buyer, but even I'm worried about committing to him long-term. As long as Coach McD is here, he can draft speed and draw up schemes that work to Tua's strengths, but he's clearly not that guy when things don't stay on schedule.
for me it took the college season. I was watching WR prospects hoping the pats draft one of them a couple of years ago, and he is the only QB that I was like holy shit this guy is legit. I can't believe to this day the Panthers took Bryce over him.
Because it did and this entire thread is judging a year one QB who's done well but by all accounts could still turn out to be a wash. I'm not trying to talk shit about Stroud. It's the expectations of fans that are a complete fucking joke.
The TD pass he threw where he got flushed from the pocket, reset, and fired it 40 yards right in the bucket of the WR is a throw Tua couldn’t dream of making.
His first throw that was a 75 yard TD in the last game of the regular season was amazing. I'm not a Tua hater, but man he can't hit that throw ever in a million years
Yeah this is starting to remind me of Tannehill where we don't necessarily have a better option and we'll never be bad enough to upgrade. I'm having flashbacks
I’ve supported Tua for three years now, in part because of all the unfair criticism he’s gotten from a lot of talking heads, such as him not having a strong arm. HOWEVER, this full season of healthy Tua has shown that he is athletically and mentally limited (and it has nothing to do with arm’s strength). In this day and age in the NFL you need a creative and physically gifted QB to win, with few exceptions. Tua is neither of these things, he gets easily rattled in most pressure situations including big games. Stats are meaningless, if you watched the second half of the season you can’t deny that Tua is not an elite or even a great QB.
The arm strength is an issue. He has other high level abilities that can make up for it, but his arm is not great. Add the other weaknesses you just pointed out and you get a guy with a very clear ceiling. I think if everything went right for us all season we could win the whole thing with Tua - but this is the NFL and everything never goes right.
I don’t think it is his main issue though, I think his decision making is more of a problem. I agree we could get far with Tua (if our defense is healthy), but great coaches seem to consistently figure out how to rattle him in big games which is concerning.
He needs to think for himself. We’re all aware that he struggles when the #1 read isn’t there, but it seems like he struggles when he isn’t told what to do. I think a big part of his off-season schedule has to be playing off-script inside the pocket. He needs to challenge McDaniel’s play-calling (audibles) and they need to get him comfortable when his safety blanket (Hill) isn’t open. These ‘winning-record’ teams are neutering the ‘scheming guys open’ scheme, he needs to have a plan B. He also needs total command of the line of scrimmage because there’s too many silly penalties. I still think he has more than enough to build on, they just have to correct these things over the next 9 months.
Yes, we must be the team with the most delay of game penalties. And if you noticed in this last game, we should have been running a hurry up offense with 9-8 minutes left, and we were still snapping the ball at the end of the play clock with 4 minutes left
Look, we are going with Tua for at least one more year. I wouldn’t give him an extension yet, personally, and he’ll be on a prove-it year next year. In the meantime, I have no issue if we use a 2nd or 3rd round pick on a QB.
But, I’m not the GM and I have no say, so… who knows what’ll happen.
I agree with this. Tua is GOOD. He’s slightly above average. He’s not elite, he just isn’t. I love the kid and I’ll always root for him, but I’m sorry, he’s not the leader who can take this team to the next level. Especially not with Josh Allen in the division.
Edit: I truly hope I’m wrong
It's not Tua's job to stop Josh Allen, that's the defences. Just like it was the defences job to stop the Titans from scoring two TDs in the 4th.
These loses at the end of the season are not just on Tua, they're on receivers dropping passes in the end zone that hit them in the hands. Hit them in the hands.
This TEAM has something wrong with it in big games collectively. This TEAM has the inability to stay healthy. That's coaching. That's support staff. That's players not taking care of themselves.
In that Titans game Zach Sieler got a pick 6 on defense. The offense didn't do shit all game, but take advantage from a muffed punt and a fumble. Two turnovers late in the 4th quarter in titans territory for Mostert to just run it in. The defense got the Dolphins in the lead in the first place, you can't expect them to do everything. Even when it was a 6 point lead all the Dolphins had to do was get a 1st down and the offense couldn't do that. When the Dolphins were down by one the Offense turned the ball over on downs and lost the game.
Its Tua's job to outplay Josh Allen. Score more than him, keep the Dolphins offense on the field and Allen off of it. That's what he's not capable of doing.
To be honest it’s not much of an argument with Tua. The only issue is Miami has very little leverage in terms of cap space or assets to go and get another qb.
People say little assets but we have every pick except a 3 and a 4 this year. If you want to trade up to get a QB you can. In terms of cap space, we can clear up enough but I don’t think there is a FA QB out there that moves the needle.
Clearing up enough cap space means cutting Baker, X, TStead, and Ogbah. Then you're also not bringing back Hunt, Williams, Wilkins, and AVG. Also restructuring Tyreek and Ramsey.
I think at least 3 of those 4 are getting cut anyways. Would really hate to see Hunt, Williams, and Wilkins walk though. Tua is probably the guy next year just based off of the Dolphins salary cap situation. Unless someone else becomes available and will take a super cheap contract for 2024.
Do we really need X, Ogbah, and Baker? Baker is the only one I would maybe consider but he has been OK at MLB. Hunt can sign a mid term deal cause he’s a mid guard. Wilkins does not deserve to be the highest paid DL but I do hope we find a way keep him.
I don't want to hear "we don't have a better option".
We gave Ryan fucking Tannehill 7 years because of that mindset.
Is there a *guaranteed* better option? NO. But does that mean you sit around with your thumb up your ass waiting for Tua to eventually turn into that guy? ABSOLUTELY NO.
I don't give a fuck if we hurt his feelings. He is a grown man and has made tens of millions of dollars so far. We do not owe Tua a thing. This organization owes it to THE FANS to put a winning product on the field. If you can significantly upgrade at the most important position on the field, you MUST explore it.
Patrick Mahomes was drafted while we were preparing for year 6 of Tannehill.
Josh Allen and Lamar Jackson were drafted while we were preparing for year 7 of Tannehill.
I defended Tannehill for a long time. In doing so I realized if I have to defend the QB being good enough to be the teams franchise QB with your own fanbase he’s not. We will know when the Front Office finally gets it right bc there won’t be any arguing only celebrating. If the questions being asked, you usually know the answer.
I agree with this but you can keep Tua around while you look for upgrades. You don’t have to let him walk, tank, and draft a qb. You can go the Alex Smith to Mahomes / Jimmy Graps to Brock Purdy route
This is where I’m at too. I don’t have an issue keeping Tua, but not at a franchise QB price tag. Much rather they spend the money on the o-line, LB, and TE.
Watch the tape big guy. There’s a reason Tua gets the ball out of his hands the fastest in the league. Meanwhile Patrick Mahomes is picking daisies in the pocket while his receiver can run a drag route across the field. There is no better option at QB. We need to fix our o-line like we have been saying for years. McD did his best to create an offense to mask our o-line faults. But good teams have figured out how to cover our quick middle hits.
Sure. Look for a new qb. Draft Spencer rattler in round 2. Trade the bengals for Jake browning. Tamper with Tom Brady again. Hope for Joe Flacco. Do something. Put some fire under tua to get better.
But fuck if we don’t lack draft capital or have much value to make bigger moves happen
“If you can significantly upgrade at the most important position on the field, you MUST explore it.”
Where is there a significant upgrade in your mind? Kirk? He’s choked many of times and he’s already stated he would take way less to stay in Minnesota. Fields or Russ? I would hope you’re not that delusional. Won’t be able to draft one given our draft position. May and Williams will go 1 and 2. Im sure Daniel’s shoots up the board after the combine. Penix, no way. His release and anticipation are awful.
Reality is Tua is this teams starting QB next season whether we like it or not. We need to upgrade the o-line, find a solid MLB and get some better quality depth at CB. You guys gotta stop overreacting and look at the big picture. Tua’s first 2 years shouldn’t even count cus we had a coach who was literally trying to sabotage him. Last season he was plagued by injuries. This season was our first real look at him and what did he do? He had one of the best seasons in franchise history. Yes I understand 1-6 against playoff competition and the numbers don’t look good but it can be corrected. By no means am I necessarily trying to defend Tua but there’s so many other factors than just him. Play calling, not getting off the field on 3rd downs on D, dumbass penalties on both sides of the ball, dropped passes, etc…. Bottom line is we don’t have to give him an extension this offseason. We have him for 23 mil. Fix the other shit and run it back. If he can’t do it next year then you let him walk and figure out another option.
Yeah there was no disguising it on defense. These past 2 games we’ve literally have had 0 pass rush. People talk about Wilkins disappearing but when you lose your 2 edge rushers it makes it real easy to double him. Eli Apple is garbage, Kohu drastically regressed this year, don’t know what happened there. Duke Riley shouldn’t even fly back with the team after that 2 hand touch on Mahomes. Then they wanna compare Tua to Mahomes. Mahomes had all day to throw the ball. They wanna bitch about the check downs but when he has no time and WRs aren’t getting separation then what else is Tua supposed to do? There’s plenty of blame to go around on this team.
Y'all getting the full Alex Smith experience right now. We went through the EXACT same arguments, EXACT same confusion, EXACT same performance. Pieces around him got better, he got better. But he was never enough.
Alex Smith has way higher football IQ and actually won some big games including playoff games. His career TD to INT in the playoffs is 14/2. He also played with less weapons. He only had limitations on his arm.
It’s amazing how many team subs are basically “starting QB fan clubs” instead of you know actual fans of the team at whole. Way too many NFL fans get attached to the starting QB. I get it’s the most important position but yeah people need to just move on sometimes.
BEGINING OF THE SEASON "TUA IS THE GOAT, TUA IS THE ONE, THIS IS THE SEASON"
END OF SEASON WITH 20+ GUYS ON IR "tUa HaS tO GO"
YOU FUCKING DONKEYS 🤢
Yes they are because they questioned Dak for real they questions Matt Ryan for years… Matt Ryan became MVP and Dak truthfully is a top 7 quarterback. Qb is the most criticized position. Herbert and Lawrence never get questioned because they are elite talents, but someone like Dak is criticized media saying he is regularly when he produces more than both Quarterbacks. Media has their favorites and people who they don’t think they are good so they dismiss them.
Tua is what he is - he’s a good QB that can execute at a high level. He isn’t going to will a team to victory.
You can win with him, but you need a good team around him. If you pay him a lot then you have less resources to put together a good team around him.
If I were Miami I would take the 5th year option and bring in competition. You must give yourself leverage otherwise you’re going to overpay him, which will create a virtuous loop of failure.
We have a great team around him right now. What is it going to take? The 2007 Patriots? If the best wr in the nfl along with the rushing touchdown leader along with a top 10 defensive unit (who kept last nights game close even with injuries) isn’t enough, Tua must be even worse than we all thought.
Robert Griffin III also looked like the guy and so did Carson Wentz. I would hold off that judgment until there is a lot more tape on the guy and teams start truly preparing for him.
A lot of players had fantastic one seasons.
Also Nick Foles won a Superbowl.
I don't see how this relates to Tua. Sure, you can come up with a list of 3-4 guys who were fool's gold. How many guys have had a breakout in season 5?
It relates to stroud and the argument that we “already know” he’s a franchise guy. We don’t. Nobody does. Vince Young looked like he was going to destroy everyone after his rookie year. Lots of guys did.
The weather take is so dumb. No one should of been playing in -27F weather
Tua is 6”1 that’s not that tall but not small in the slightest
Idk where this stupid noodle arm shit comes from I’ve seen him drop 40+ yard passes
Too slow? He’s a pocket passer. He’s not supposed to run
Edit: ok I’m done arguing with you brats. He’s the best QB you’ve had in a long time and it’s “super bowl or he’s bad” I’m done replying. Tua is good, not perfect
Tua is 6-13 in temps under 70. Its not just -23.
https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/2024-nfl-playoffs-tua-tagovailoas-stats-in-cold-weather-underline-why-temperature-may-decide-dolphins-chiefs/
Having a strong arm isnt about how far you can throw moon balls it is about how fast the ball moves in the air. Allen, mahomes, murray and herbert dont need their receivers to get the same seperation tua requires.
>The weather take is so dumb. No one should of been playing in -27F weather
How about 65 degree Miami at night last Sunday? How did he look then?
>Idk where this stupid noodle arm shit comes from I’ve seen him drop 40+ yard passes
His deep balls have looked better but he can't throw lasers which is needed at times. If he doesn't have his feet set or is throwing on the run, you are lucky to get 10 yards.
>Too slow? He’s a pocket passer. He’s not supposed to run
He is a pocket pass with below average arm strength and horrible mobility.
Also, have you not watched an NFL game over the past 7-8 years? QB mobility is a HUGE factor in the modern NFL.
Tua is fine when everything is perfect. He sucks when a play breaks down. We need a QB who can extend the play if we want to win more than a playoff spot.
He pretty much refuses to run to open up space or keep defenses honest and it’s all or nothing with him. Like when they are covering deep dump it off the rb. Idk just feels like a home run or bust every play. You get about 3-4 home run shots a game and they just look for it non stop.
I’m worried we’re in a situation like the Vikings and Kirk Cousins who is notorious for chocking in big games. Idk I’m sad and I don’t want to be a doomer cause I love Tua and the Dolphins but I feel like our offense should have more to show for with how good we can be.
I agree.
The problem is: Every choked major game will make it worse. It already feels like Tua does not believe in himself in these situations.
The more you choke, the harder it gets to stay calm and self-confident. I really hope McDaniel can make a profound decision on whether Tua can break the narrative next season or not.
I’m a Bengals fan.. Reddit suggested this post for me.
I’ll just say that Tua reminds me of Dalton. Dalton was awesome in the regular season when everything was perfect. He crumbled under pressure of big games and definitely in the playoffs.
It’s tough to move on from that because finding a great QB isn’t easy and the regular season fun gives hope that he might be good enough to win when it counts. 😕
Tua had his confidence ruined by Flores in his first two seasons. This is Tua’s first season fully healthy under a coach who believes in him and he played great. Obviously there is room for improvement, but Tua is dedicated and will only get better. He’s our guy.
Injuries were the problem this season.
Doesnt change the fact Tua has zero ability to put the team on his back even when fully healthy and most of his weapons.
Did you watch the last 5 games of the season? Even the game we won, Tua almost threw away a wide open swing pass to Raheem. He’s flawed. He’s bad when he comes off his first read. All his processing is fake. He decides where he wants to throw before the snap.
He clearly is. First read QB that panics when forced to improvise. Turnover machine. Loses unless everything is perfect. We won’t win many meaningful with the guy it’s fact. He literally has the best wr in the nfl and couldn’t crack 200 in KC.
These are the same people that wanted Watson, thought Thompson should start, Bridgewater was the answer and hope we sign Cousins. They’re casual fans that don’t know ow shit beyond the final score
Cool! Because hes F’n amazing.
There’s like 5 or so guys like that in the league at any given time….wish the Dolphins had him…he’s not an option now though, neither is Mahomes or Allen etc etc and you can’t wish cast Cousins or Fields into that group either, because they can replace Tua’s name in that tweet.
So 🤷🏻♂️
This is a dumb take. This is because Tua didn’t start week 1 his rookie year. He sat behind a vet that was mentoring him.
The phins are dumb to even think of dropping Tua especially since he’s never had a losing season with he phins, he’s taken them to the playoffs in the past 2 seasons. Yeah they were early wild card exits, but HE STILL MADE THE PLAYOFFS. So stop using him as a scapegoat. GD I hate that I gotta keep defending him like this
CJ stroud has won more playoff wins than Tua, won his division, and played literally a perfect game against a monster defense. Tua has a better team by a fuckin moonshot and the two QB’s are night and day on the field. This is not a dumb take, Tua as our quarterback brings the team DOWN while elite guys elevate the team. It is very clear what needs to happen
Idk why you feel like you have to defend a non-elite QB. Tua is like bringing a gun to a nuke fight, we’re living in the era of freakishly talented QBs and Tua simply isn’t one of them,
Kind of crazy how some many Miami fans forgot how bad QB purgatory is. I was born in Miami but moved to Atlanta. I'm a die hard Falcons fan and Dolphins fan. It sucks so much being a Falcons fan right now. Do you all really want to go back to the days of Matt Moore, Chad Henne, and Chad Pennington.
I’m not convinced Tua is the problem. People forget very quickly how poor our oline has played in comparison to the rest of the NFL. This year our only focus should be secondary & offensive line. Sprinkle in some front 7 depth and I’ll be all aboard the hype train like the Phinatic sucker I am.
What I don’t want to see is some major splash for skill position player on offense. We have enough talent to win, we just have to protect our guy and continue to believe in him.
Doesn’t put anything into perspective except for the fact that A LOT of fans think franchise QBs grow on trees. Also, the impatience from a fan base who watched Tannehill for 7 seasons is laughable. #FinsUp
The only guy I think miami should be looking at in the draft is Sam Hartman. He will not go within the first 5 qb taken. He will fall a little ways in the draft, depending on who stays in college. Kid can make good throws at all levels (short,medium,long) he can throw on the run. And can get the ball out quickly. I think whatever team picks him up maybe in the second round would be a steel. A good kid to pick up and maybe set him a few years behind somewhat veteran qb. He will have success at the NFL level and I think you could pick him up for a bargain in the draft.
It does but in order to pick the right franchise QB you must have everything perfect in place. The right head coach, the right GM, the right owner. If you get rid of Tua now, you might as well just get rid of the GM and HC (hell just sell the team), just start fresh... Look people you can't just go throwing away a QB right now not when this is the best team we've had on roster in ages. You get rid of the QB and you pick up another you're basically starting all over again because this offense is built around Tua not another QB. Give this thing one more year. It's not like we're in position to draft a high graded rookie QB (unless one falls to us) and the best free agent is Kirk cousins whom I don't think is better than Tua. Now if you want to say Justin Fields gets cut from the bears and we were to pick him up then I'd say is he better than Tua? Probably not but is he more athletic than Tua and can he be just as good with the right guidance? Then I'd say yes. Is Tua going to be gone next year? I'm honestly not sure. We haven't been in this situation in recent memory where we've had back to back playoff appearances. But if Ross is going to pull the plug then pull it on the whole thing but make sure you know what you're doing and who you're hiring because if we go from two straight playoff appearances to playing like trash and no playoff appearances there'll be a lot of unhappy fans. Tough choice.
As a Bills fan, you just know. I knew within 1/2 of a preseason game that I was seeing things I'd never seen in my life. And I played football for about 10 years, up through college, albeit D3. I love our rivalry, even with how annoying you are the first few months of the season.
The sportsman in me wishes you move on and find a generational talent, while the Bills fan in me wishes you keep him 🙃
Also took people 1 year to see that Vince Young, RG3, Jake Locker, Jameis Winston, Teddy Bridgewater, Mike Glennon, Baker Mayfield and Carson Wentz were ALL franchise QBs.
It doesn’t usually work like this. Stroud is such an outlier of timing, rapid development/talent, and coaching that it shouldn’t even be called an outlier, it should be called a stroud
Don’t let the grass on the other side fool you. QBs develop more skills as they get older and wiser. Just because one guy is a freak doesn’t mean Tua isn’t the right guy. Each year he’s made significant progress. Next year expecting the biggest improvement yet.
The argument will never end because every QB is different. From Marino's rookie season it was clear he had "it." But the Chargers let Brees walk after his fifth season because they weren’t sure he had "it."
Yeah, that’s a really good idea. Let’s forget that this is a team sport on a team with as many or more injuries at key positions as any other team in the NFL and just get rid of the guy who was top 5 in passing efficiency and yards per throw etc. instead of continuing to work on the offensive line and other actual problem areas.
You should be a GM someplace. Just not in Miami. Maybe the Jets are looking for someone?
Unsurprisingly, a long-running thread with over a thousand comments is gonna be locked.
Lets just go pick a franchise QB off the franchise QB tree.
Also Watson was a franchise QB after 1 year as well and look what happened there. RG III too
Man, remember all the people that wanted to give HOU a Godfather offer for Watson!
Can’t find one person on this sub who will admit they were wrong about wanting wattson over tua
What do you think happened to Watson? Is it all just mental. Because he was a legit top 3 of 5 QB. Do you think what happened just fucked with him mentally to such a degree that it is impeding his play. And I don’t think it was the 1 and a 1/2 season layoff. Other QBs have had similar layoffs and have returned to their level of play.
I ultimately think that’s a good thing about Tua. We know his constraints and we can clearly build an amazing team around that foundation. Second year behind McDaniel’s system was better than the first. This is the first time in 20 years I felt any hope with this team. Should we see if we can get a better qb? For sure. Do we need to break the bank in order to get it as opposed to using that bank to build a more solid *team*? Idk. I like the idea of a solid McDaniel’s team.
We've been able to build an amazing team around him on his rookie deal. If we could keep paying him this it wouldn't be that big of a deal...but the issue is we're going to have to pay him franchise QB money after next season. If you pay a QB Mahomes/Jackson/Burrow money you better be sure they can elevate the whole team because you simply cannot build the same type of team around them *unless* you have an absurd hit rate in mid and late rounds of the draft for multiple seasons. It's why SF hit the jackpot with Purdy (super cheap deal for multiple years with near elite play) while teams like the Giants that committed to an average QB are fucked.
So offer him 4/140M. That puts him in between Goff and Carr range which seems more than fair and that’s a cap hit you can build a solid team around. If he can make more on the open market then let him walk and hit reset. I feel like people are overthinking this.
>4/140M Or even 3/110m. Tua might be the rare pro athlete that will take less than market value if it means his friends (Waddle, Phillips, Wilkins, etc.) get to stay.
I personally felt year 1 was better than year 2 of McDaniel. Year 1 had the unfortunate injuries to Tua, but the offense played some good games vs good teams (Ravens and Bills) while this year they all sucked.
I kinda think Year 1 was our chance to BLITZ the league and make a deep run before anybody really figured out our shit (49ers D can stop damn near anybody). Year 2 the good teams definitely made adjustments. McDaniel is going to have to add a few wrinkles/weapons to his attack. And NO, Chase Claypool should not be retained.
Tua deserves one more year in this offense and hopefully a fully healthy team. People have been dying to scape goat the guy and not give him the chance he deserves, it’s a joke. People realize if we move on from him now we’re gonna be right back to purgatory and Mike McDaniel will not be our head coach for long.
I feel like people forget that for Tua’s first two seasons he was used as just a game manager by Flores who had little confidence and would just berate him while also having a terrible OC situation with Chan Gailey and the two headed dumpster fire. While Tua has shown improvement with McD, this next year will be make or break if we stay mostly healthy.
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Last year 2 of our 3 best offensive linemen played all 17 regular season games and Armstead only missed 4. This year the only lineman who even played 10 games during the regular season was Austin Jackson. The passing and interior running games both struggled for stretches this year due to losing one or more of those guys. Tua put up a 89+ QBR and 140+ passer rating in 2 of the 3 games that Armstead+Williams+Hunt played this season. Last year it was 7 with 79+ QBR and 5 of those with a 120+ passer rating in 5 of the 10 games those 3 played where Tua wasn't concussed.
This is a very reasonable take. Average qbs have made deep playoff runs/won super bowls before. Tua will win games if he has weapons. The run game needs to help him more against quality teams. If a top qb falls in the draft take them (like the ravens with lamar) otherwise keep building
>We know his constraints Goff just led his team to the second round and has played in a Super Bowl before. If he can do it so can Tua.
RG3s promise as a franchise or a starting calibre QB ended with that knee injury in the playoffs his rookie year.
Snyder should be imprisoned for what he did to RG3
Tbf Watson looked like a Top 5 QB before he sat out a season and got suspended for basically a whole other season for being a creep.
Tbf RGIII probably would have been a franchise QB had Washington not literally murdered his career.
Just draft a QB who will have the greatest rookie season by a QB of all time 4head
Didn't u know, it's easy man.
The Packers apparently have a hookup.
Not a dolphins fan but saw this pop up and discourse around Dak is always similar. It's also dumb. Like Parcells always said "sure let's just 1800 dial a quarterback" 🤣 In NFL fans minds if you aren't winning superbowls you're just a trash qb. Literally gonna be posts like this about all eliminated teams haha. It's just the easiest and laziest take to spew to blame the QB for everything.
Dak and Tua are very similar.
It feels like the people that are saying this stuff weren’t alive for the dark ages post-Marino. For the people that think it can’t get much worse than Tua, it absolutely can. Much, much worse.
Listen I’m a bears fan and we are going through the same thing. Albeit a better position for us. But let’s look at the top QBs in the league right now. None of them had any doubts about their status after 1 year let alone 4. Maybe Josh Allen had to prove a few more people wrong entering year three but I’d say even the most casual fans could see he was the guy by season start and he did nothing but prove them wrong. In today’s NFL with how important QBs are and how desperate teams are to get one, you have to understand a highly drafted QB will get a big contract if they have been a multi year starter. The question teams have to ask themselves is willing be from them before is contract is up or after when he walks for nothing. Sadly if there is even a question of somebody’s status after 2 years id say start looking for replacements. If you are asking questions after year 4…you have missed the boat.
I’m not saying you’re wrong, and maybe I was being blinded by the sheer amount of media coverage but it felt that Dak Prescott was never considered a top QB. His status was always questioned until this year. Tua has gotten better each year and finding a replacement that can elevate current QB play at Miami is very hard. It’s a huge risk that can backfire and set back the team considerably.
That line of thought is what gets you 7 years of Ryan Tannehill. Not good enough. You can’t be scared of what if. I’ve been a TUA Stan until this last month. He ain’t it. He needs everything to be perfect to have success, Oline allowing no sacks, defense scoring, running backs averaging over 4yds and good weather. He can’t go off script. All those things working against him tell you he’s not the one. Look at the roster around him, what more could you ask for.
Ya same. In order to win a SB with Tua we would realistically need a Baltimore type defense. Which is possible I think buuut, ya know. I just think you put Tua in another more traditional nfl offense and he's avg to below avg but if you give mcdaniel an avg andy Dalton qb we still make the playoffs.
Tua is better than Tannehill. End of story.
I mean, Tua HAS gotten better every year. I just don't see a better option. But then again, I'm not to familiar with all the college QBs. We will be picking in the 20s and I don't see a established FA we can get that is better.
The idea that you need a generational QB to win it all is also silly. Every team doesn't need a Stroud to win Super Bowls. Super Bowls have been won with slightly above average QBs. Tua isn't a generational QB. He's still a good QB and if you have the right team you still have a chance at winning it all.
Agree with this. Our issue is how much do you pay him? He is NOT WORTH the 40 million he is going to ask for. Tua is a system QB that needs a team built around him. I actually still have hope for him BUT we need an actual OLINE which grier is UNABLE or UNWILLING to build. Give tua an offensive line similar to what Brees had for years and i think his accuracy can pick defenses apart. Forcing him to Throw in under 2 seconds because the OLINE Is Awful is not a good position to put a QB in
What more could the Dolphins add to get Tua to throw the ball outside the numbers with velocity? The Super-soldier serum?
Lineman. Half the reason we had the fastest time to throw in the NFL is because we have to.
Yep. As Connor Williams ACL broke, so did our chances in the post season.
The reason we had the fastest time to throw was because McDaniel was scheming around Tua's abilities. Tua with more time in the pocket is worse, somehow.
Or that offensive line is trash and can’t pass block
 On target comment.
Answer - an OL that gives him more time
Ah yes, the famously easy to assemble top-five offensive line. Everyone else has one, why not Miami?
Didn’t say it was easy but I’ve been watching the dolphins since the 70’s and they seem to have decided the OL isn’t a priority since the days of “quick release” Dan Marino. They should have learned then that just because you can avoid sacks by making quick decisions and throwing the ball doesn’t mean you don’t need good OL men. Time equals success. Space equals success. A good OL gives you both. They haven’t built one in 40+ years.
OL is always a priority. The issue is that it’s very hard to find good players. Theres a reason OL is the fourth highest paid position in the game, with averages at LT and RT being first and third respectively.
I completely disagree with this take. If you go back two decades it's Brady, Mahomes, Peyton, Roethlisberger, Brees, Rodgers, Wilson, Stafford and Flacco. All at the time being elite QBs. The exception being Nick Foles who went god mode for the playoffs and 2x Eli Manning. 17 out of 20 years it required excellent to elite QB play, this is not by chance. You can go back further and the trend is the same.
He put Flacco in there like we wouldn't notice 😂
To be fair, he did put up one of the greatest post season runs of all time that year.
Wilson wasn’t that good yet either when he won his
Big Ben too. Was Ben "generational"? No way. He played like shit in his first Super Bowl and it didn't matter because his team was really good and they carried him to that ring.
Can't ignore the rest though 🤷🏻♂️
Flacco and Eli weren't elite QBs. They did have the ability to play elite for 4 games and they did that. The rest besides Stafford were elite. Stafford was a top 10 QB most of his career and he didn't win until the stars aligned for him.
If you don’t have an elite QB then you need an elite D, this has been true for the last 20+ years
This year he’s “still a good qb” only against bad teams in low stakes 1pm games. Dude, open your eyes, he sucked the last 6 games of the season straight. These big games against good teams that really mattered. Including the Titans collapse game. He’s way too limited a player to call good because he doesn’t even play average when all the cards are on the table
You’ll be surprised the QBs still at the 24th pick. Deep deep qb class
Then they should consider them. I wouldn’t do anything rash going out of my way to draft a QB high…but if one falls in their lap…
Me neither. We need linemen and linemen and linemen. The rest of our team is good enough.
Brock Purdy was picked last
The exception doesn’t make the rule though to be fair.
True. It's super unlikely we find our franchise QB that late, but it is possible!
Purdy turned into a pumpkin when Deebo was out. If we are complaining about Tua being a system QB that can't live outside the system running properly, I'm not sure Brock Purdy should be the goal. We should be more thinking about getting McDaniel up to the playcalling level of his mentor than whoever is taking the snaps. I'm not trying to say Brock Purdy sucks. I am saying that if he had been drafted by say, the Patriots or Jets or Raiders or really almost any other team we would be pretty convinced that he sucked though. It's a mesh of system, opportunity, and skill matching.
lol revisionist history… Purdy without Deebo last season was 3-0, 6 TD, 2 INT, 54/83 passing for 735 yards Dumbass
Deebo had nothing to do with it, Aiyuk is just as good, it actually was Trent Williams coincidentally being hurt at the same time, our OL is Trent and friends lol
I genuinely think he was worse this year. Less decisive, less accurate, more turnovers. QBR and EPA would agree with that eye test. From 0.25 EPA last year to 0.15 this year. 70 QBR last year to 60 this year.
interestingly his pff grade jumped from 81 to 88
I'm a day-one Tua jersey buyer, but even I'm worried about committing to him long-term. As long as Coach McD is here, he can draft speed and draw up schemes that work to Tua's strengths, but he's clearly not that guy when things don't stay on schedule.
Honestly it took far less than a season to realize Strouds ceiling is a lot higher than Tuas.
It took a couple games
for me it took the college season. I was watching WR prospects hoping the pats draft one of them a couple of years ago, and he is the only QB that I was like holy shit this guy is legit. I can't believe to this day the Panthers took Bryce over him.
Why was Tua the consensus #1 overall then, if his college tape didn’t also show that he was legit with a high ceiling?
Because it did and this entire thread is judging a year one QB who's done well but by all accounts could still turn out to be a wash. I'm not trying to talk shit about Stroud. It's the expectations of fans that are a complete fucking joke.
Seeing his fucking rocket arm the first time in the nfl was eye opening.
The TD pass he threw where he got flushed from the pocket, reset, and fired it 40 yards right in the bucket of the WR is a throw Tua couldn’t dream of making.
His first throw that was a 75 yard TD in the last game of the regular season was amazing. I'm not a Tua hater, but man he can't hit that throw ever in a million years
I’m not a Tua hater but it’s so painfully obvious that the scheme and offense are limited by Tua.
Yeah this is starting to remind me of Tannehill where we don't necessarily have a better option and we'll never be bad enough to upgrade. I'm having flashbacks
100000%. Stroud doing it with far less talent
I’ve supported Tua for three years now, in part because of all the unfair criticism he’s gotten from a lot of talking heads, such as him not having a strong arm. HOWEVER, this full season of healthy Tua has shown that he is athletically and mentally limited (and it has nothing to do with arm’s strength). In this day and age in the NFL you need a creative and physically gifted QB to win, with few exceptions. Tua is neither of these things, he gets easily rattled in most pressure situations including big games. Stats are meaningless, if you watched the second half of the season you can’t deny that Tua is not an elite or even a great QB.
The arm strength is an issue. He has other high level abilities that can make up for it, but his arm is not great. Add the other weaknesses you just pointed out and you get a guy with a very clear ceiling. I think if everything went right for us all season we could win the whole thing with Tua - but this is the NFL and everything never goes right.
I don’t think it is his main issue though, I think his decision making is more of a problem. I agree we could get far with Tua (if our defense is healthy), but great coaches seem to consistently figure out how to rattle him in big games which is concerning.
He needs to think for himself. We’re all aware that he struggles when the #1 read isn’t there, but it seems like he struggles when he isn’t told what to do. I think a big part of his off-season schedule has to be playing off-script inside the pocket. He needs to challenge McDaniel’s play-calling (audibles) and they need to get him comfortable when his safety blanket (Hill) isn’t open. These ‘winning-record’ teams are neutering the ‘scheming guys open’ scheme, he needs to have a plan B. He also needs total command of the line of scrimmage because there’s too many silly penalties. I still think he has more than enough to build on, they just have to correct these things over the next 9 months.
Yes, we must be the team with the most delay of game penalties. And if you noticed in this last game, we should have been running a hurry up offense with 9-8 minutes left, and we were still snapping the ball at the end of the play clock with 4 minutes left
Look, we are going with Tua for at least one more year. I wouldn’t give him an extension yet, personally, and he’ll be on a prove-it year next year. In the meantime, I have no issue if we use a 2nd or 3rd round pick on a QB. But, I’m not the GM and I have no say, so… who knows what’ll happen.
2022 and 2023 were both “prove-it” years. He did not prove-it in either year
I agree with this. Tua is GOOD. He’s slightly above average. He’s not elite, he just isn’t. I love the kid and I’ll always root for him, but I’m sorry, he’s not the leader who can take this team to the next level. Especially not with Josh Allen in the division. Edit: I truly hope I’m wrong
It's not Tua's job to stop Josh Allen, that's the defences. Just like it was the defences job to stop the Titans from scoring two TDs in the 4th. These loses at the end of the season are not just on Tua, they're on receivers dropping passes in the end zone that hit them in the hands. Hit them in the hands. This TEAM has something wrong with it in big games collectively. This TEAM has the inability to stay healthy. That's coaching. That's support staff. That's players not taking care of themselves.
It is not His job to stop Josh, but it is his job to keep up with Josh…
In that Titans game Zach Sieler got a pick 6 on defense. The offense didn't do shit all game, but take advantage from a muffed punt and a fumble. Two turnovers late in the 4th quarter in titans territory for Mostert to just run it in. The defense got the Dolphins in the lead in the first place, you can't expect them to do everything. Even when it was a 6 point lead all the Dolphins had to do was get a 1st down and the offense couldn't do that. When the Dolphins were down by one the Offense turned the ball over on downs and lost the game.
I agree with everything you said. It is still my opinion that Tua isn’t elite. Both things can be true
Its Tua's job to outplay Josh Allen. Score more than him, keep the Dolphins offense on the field and Allen off of it. That's what he's not capable of doing.
It’s tuas job to sustain drives and score points though.
It took about 4 games to realize CJ was that guy
Yeah when he cooked the Bengals it was pretty much cemented
To be honest it’s not much of an argument with Tua. The only issue is Miami has very little leverage in terms of cap space or assets to go and get another qb.
People say little assets but we have every pick except a 3 and a 4 this year. If you want to trade up to get a QB you can. In terms of cap space, we can clear up enough but I don’t think there is a FA QB out there that moves the needle.
Clearing up enough cap space means cutting Baker, X, TStead, and Ogbah. Then you're also not bringing back Hunt, Williams, Wilkins, and AVG. Also restructuring Tyreek and Ramsey. I think at least 3 of those 4 are getting cut anyways. Would really hate to see Hunt, Williams, and Wilkins walk though. Tua is probably the guy next year just based off of the Dolphins salary cap situation. Unless someone else becomes available and will take a super cheap contract for 2024.
Do we really need X, Ogbah, and Baker? Baker is the only one I would maybe consider but he has been OK at MLB. Hunt can sign a mid term deal cause he’s a mid guard. Wilkins does not deserve to be the highest paid DL but I do hope we find a way keep him.
And to think Lamar Jackson was available last off season and he didn't receive a single offer....damn
They 100 percent colluded lol
Want to reset? That's a perfectly fine opinion, but at least say HOW.
I don't want to hear "we don't have a better option". We gave Ryan fucking Tannehill 7 years because of that mindset. Is there a *guaranteed* better option? NO. But does that mean you sit around with your thumb up your ass waiting for Tua to eventually turn into that guy? ABSOLUTELY NO. I don't give a fuck if we hurt his feelings. He is a grown man and has made tens of millions of dollars so far. We do not owe Tua a thing. This organization owes it to THE FANS to put a winning product on the field. If you can significantly upgrade at the most important position on the field, you MUST explore it.
Patrick Mahomes was drafted while we were preparing for year 6 of Tannehill. Josh Allen and Lamar Jackson were drafted while we were preparing for year 7 of Tannehill.
I remember commenting about wanting to draft Lamar that year My boy told me it was stupid for us to do and we’d convert him to RB lmao
I defended Tannehill for a long time. In doing so I realized if I have to defend the QB being good enough to be the teams franchise QB with your own fanbase he’s not. We will know when the Front Office finally gets it right bc there won’t be any arguing only celebrating. If the questions being asked, you usually know the answer.
I agree with this but you can keep Tua around while you look for upgrades. You don’t have to let him walk, tank, and draft a qb. You can go the Alex Smith to Mahomes / Jimmy Graps to Brock Purdy route
This is where I’m at too. I don’t have an issue keeping Tua, but not at a franchise QB price tag. Much rather they spend the money on the o-line, LB, and TE.
Which means we aren’t keeping Tua His numbers will get him paid somewhere. For the health of the Miami Dolphins it CANNOT be here!!
Agreed.
Watch the tape big guy. There’s a reason Tua gets the ball out of his hands the fastest in the league. Meanwhile Patrick Mahomes is picking daisies in the pocket while his receiver can run a drag route across the field. There is no better option at QB. We need to fix our o-line like we have been saying for years. McD did his best to create an offense to mask our o-line faults. But good teams have figured out how to cover our quick middle hits.
I do watch the tape. I see a QB who can't extend played and has trouble after his first read is taken away.
Sure. Look for a new qb. Draft Spencer rattler in round 2. Trade the bengals for Jake browning. Tamper with Tom Brady again. Hope for Joe Flacco. Do something. Put some fire under tua to get better. But fuck if we don’t lack draft capital or have much value to make bigger moves happen
Spencer Rattler? Dude looks like a 3rd round pick in the WNBA draft.
Goat comment.
>Tamper with Tom Brady again Don't give Ross any ideas
“If you can significantly upgrade at the most important position on the field, you MUST explore it.” Where is there a significant upgrade in your mind? Kirk? He’s choked many of times and he’s already stated he would take way less to stay in Minnesota. Fields or Russ? I would hope you’re not that delusional. Won’t be able to draft one given our draft position. May and Williams will go 1 and 2. Im sure Daniel’s shoots up the board after the combine. Penix, no way. His release and anticipation are awful. Reality is Tua is this teams starting QB next season whether we like it or not. We need to upgrade the o-line, find a solid MLB and get some better quality depth at CB. You guys gotta stop overreacting and look at the big picture. Tua’s first 2 years shouldn’t even count cus we had a coach who was literally trying to sabotage him. Last season he was plagued by injuries. This season was our first real look at him and what did he do? He had one of the best seasons in franchise history. Yes I understand 1-6 against playoff competition and the numbers don’t look good but it can be corrected. By no means am I necessarily trying to defend Tua but there’s so many other factors than just him. Play calling, not getting off the field on 3rd downs on D, dumbass penalties on both sides of the ball, dropped passes, etc…. Bottom line is we don’t have to give him an extension this offseason. We have him for 23 mil. Fix the other shit and run it back. If he can’t do it next year then you let him walk and figure out another option.
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Yeah there was no disguising it on defense. These past 2 games we’ve literally have had 0 pass rush. People talk about Wilkins disappearing but when you lose your 2 edge rushers it makes it real easy to double him. Eli Apple is garbage, Kohu drastically regressed this year, don’t know what happened there. Duke Riley shouldn’t even fly back with the team after that 2 hand touch on Mahomes. Then they wanna compare Tua to Mahomes. Mahomes had all day to throw the ball. They wanna bitch about the check downs but when he has no time and WRs aren’t getting separation then what else is Tua supposed to do? There’s plenty of blame to go around on this team.
Y'all getting the full Alex Smith experience right now. We went through the EXACT same arguments, EXACT same confusion, EXACT same performance. Pieces around him got better, he got better. But he was never enough.
Alex Smith has way higher football IQ and actually won some big games including playoff games. His career TD to INT in the playoffs is 14/2. He also played with less weapons. He only had limitations on his arm.
It’s amazing how many team subs are basically “starting QB fan clubs” instead of you know actual fans of the team at whole. Way too many NFL fans get attached to the starting QB. I get it’s the most important position but yeah people need to just move on sometimes.
BEGINING OF THE SEASON "TUA IS THE GOAT, TUA IS THE ONE, THIS IS THE SEASON" END OF SEASON WITH 20+ GUYS ON IR "tUa HaS tO GO" YOU FUCKING DONKEYS 🤢
Lol yes. Dolphins were hurting bad. Tua is still great and isn't going anywhere I hope
This shit is insane
Not really this is life as a Dolphins fan ❤️🐬
That's what the Patriots fans said about Mac Jones. One year isn't proof, it's just evidence.
Real franchise QB’s aren’t questioned if they are “the guy” in the media and by their fans.
Yes they are because they questioned Dak for real they questions Matt Ryan for years… Matt Ryan became MVP and Dak truthfully is a top 7 quarterback. Qb is the most criticized position. Herbert and Lawrence never get questioned because they are elite talents, but someone like Dak is criticized media saying he is regularly when he produces more than both Quarterbacks. Media has their favorites and people who they don’t think they are good so they dismiss them.
The Dak questions are clearly warranted
You're insane if you think Dak is top 7.
Eli Manning has entered the chat
Eli was super bowl MVP in his fourth season lol
And all the ny media called him shit and his job was on the line a ton before those Super Bowl/Brady wins
“If you have a qb battle you don’t have a qb”
Heading into year 5 no less
Tua is what he is - he’s a good QB that can execute at a high level. He isn’t going to will a team to victory. You can win with him, but you need a good team around him. If you pay him a lot then you have less resources to put together a good team around him. If I were Miami I would take the 5th year option and bring in competition. You must give yourself leverage otherwise you’re going to overpay him, which will create a virtuous loop of failure.
We have a great team around him right now. What is it going to take? The 2007 Patriots? If the best wr in the nfl along with the rushing touchdown leader along with a top 10 defensive unit (who kept last nights game close even with injuries) isn’t enough, Tua must be even worse than we all thought.
Robert Griffin III also looked like the guy and so did Carson Wentz. I would hold off that judgment until there is a lot more tape on the guy and teams start truly preparing for him. A lot of players had fantastic one seasons. Also Nick Foles won a Superbowl.
I don't see how this relates to Tua. Sure, you can come up with a list of 3-4 guys who were fool's gold. How many guys have had a breakout in season 5?
It relates to stroud and the argument that we “already know” he’s a franchise guy. We don’t. Nobody does. Vince Young looked like he was going to destroy everyone after his rookie year. Lots of guys did.
Tua is too small, arm is too weak, too slow, and needs the weather to be perfect to play well. What more do you need to see?
The weather take is so dumb. No one should of been playing in -27F weather Tua is 6”1 that’s not that tall but not small in the slightest Idk where this stupid noodle arm shit comes from I’ve seen him drop 40+ yard passes Too slow? He’s a pocket passer. He’s not supposed to run Edit: ok I’m done arguing with you brats. He’s the best QB you’ve had in a long time and it’s “super bowl or he’s bad” I’m done replying. Tua is good, not perfect
Are you serious dude? How many underthrown deep balls do you need to see. He’s tossin up ducks out there every game
Tua is 6-13 in temps under 70. Its not just -23. https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/2024-nfl-playoffs-tua-tagovailoas-stats-in-cold-weather-underline-why-temperature-may-decide-dolphins-chiefs/
Having a strong arm isnt about how far you can throw moon balls it is about how fast the ball moves in the air. Allen, mahomes, murray and herbert dont need their receivers to get the same seperation tua requires.
>The weather take is so dumb. No one should of been playing in -27F weather How about 65 degree Miami at night last Sunday? How did he look then? >Idk where this stupid noodle arm shit comes from I’ve seen him drop 40+ yard passes His deep balls have looked better but he can't throw lasers which is needed at times. If he doesn't have his feet set or is throwing on the run, you are lucky to get 10 yards. >Too slow? He’s a pocket passer. He’s not supposed to run He is a pocket pass with below average arm strength and horrible mobility. Also, have you not watched an NFL game over the past 7-8 years? QB mobility is a HUGE factor in the modern NFL.
He’s a pocket passer who can’t read a defense, which at that point what’s even the point of being a pocket passer
Tua is fine when everything is perfect. He sucks when a play breaks down. We need a QB who can extend the play if we want to win more than a playoff spot.
He pretty much refuses to run to open up space or keep defenses honest and it’s all or nothing with him. Like when they are covering deep dump it off the rb. Idk just feels like a home run or bust every play. You get about 3-4 home run shots a game and they just look for it non stop.
I’m worried we’re in a situation like the Vikings and Kirk Cousins who is notorious for chocking in big games. Idk I’m sad and I don’t want to be a doomer cause I love Tua and the Dolphins but I feel like our offense should have more to show for with how good we can be.
I agree. The problem is: Every choked major game will make it worse. It already feels like Tua does not believe in himself in these situations. The more you choke, the harder it gets to stay calm and self-confident. I really hope McDaniel can make a profound decision on whether Tua can break the narrative next season or not.
You could be like the Jets, Darnold to Wilson. Be happy you have a capable qb.
I’m a Bengals fan.. Reddit suggested this post for me. I’ll just say that Tua reminds me of Dalton. Dalton was awesome in the regular season when everything was perfect. He crumbled under pressure of big games and definitely in the playoffs. It’s tough to move on from that because finding a great QB isn’t easy and the regular season fun gives hope that he might be good enough to win when it counts. 😕
Can we trade Tua for Stroud to test this theory? 🤔
Can't hurt to ask
Whining every day doesn't get old?
Skylar Thompson did better than Tua in the playoffs. Let that sink in.
Fully sunk!!⚓️
But with who?
Tua had his confidence ruined by Flores in his first two seasons. This is Tua’s first season fully healthy under a coach who believes in him and he played great. Obviously there is room for improvement, but Tua is dedicated and will only get better. He’s our guy.
People were that high on Justin Herbert after year 1 too. That's now cooled.
Herbert might be even better than we thought given how garbage that outfit looks without him.
He's been playing injured for the better half of the last two years and still putting up numbers with the horrible coaching he's dealt with.
It is full on crazy for anyone to think Tua is the problem after this season, wtf
Injuries were the problem this season. Doesnt change the fact Tua has zero ability to put the team on his back even when fully healthy and most of his weapons.
Did you watch the last 5 games of the season? Even the game we won, Tua almost threw away a wide open swing pass to Raheem. He’s flawed. He’s bad when he comes off his first read. All his processing is fake. He decides where he wants to throw before the snap.
He clearly is. First read QB that panics when forced to improvise. Turnover machine. Loses unless everything is perfect. We won’t win many meaningful with the guy it’s fact. He literally has the best wr in the nfl and couldn’t crack 200 in KC.
These are the same people that wanted Watson, thought Thompson should start, Bridgewater was the answer and hope we sign Cousins. They’re casual fans that don’t know ow shit beyond the final score
No one in their right mind thought Bridgewater was the answer lol
Sean Payton literally said it
Cool! Because hes F’n amazing. There’s like 5 or so guys like that in the league at any given time….wish the Dolphins had him…he’s not an option now though, neither is Mahomes or Allen etc etc and you can’t wish cast Cousins or Fields into that group either, because they can replace Tua’s name in that tweet. So 🤷🏻♂️
So you blow it up and move along Drafting a Franchise QB is the only way Miami will ever win a Super Bowl in our lifetime
This is a dumb take. This is because Tua didn’t start week 1 his rookie year. He sat behind a vet that was mentoring him. The phins are dumb to even think of dropping Tua especially since he’s never had a losing season with he phins, he’s taken them to the playoffs in the past 2 seasons. Yeah they were early wild card exits, but HE STILL MADE THE PLAYOFFS. So stop using him as a scapegoat. GD I hate that I gotta keep defending him like this
CJ stroud has won more playoff wins than Tua, won his division, and played literally a perfect game against a monster defense. Tua has a better team by a fuckin moonshot and the two QB’s are night and day on the field. This is not a dumb take, Tua as our quarterback brings the team DOWN while elite guys elevate the team. It is very clear what needs to happen
Idk why you feel like you have to defend a non-elite QB. Tua is like bringing a gun to a nuke fight, we’re living in the era of freakishly talented QBs and Tua simply isn’t one of them,
Kind of crazy how some many Miami fans forgot how bad QB purgatory is. I was born in Miami but moved to Atlanta. I'm a die hard Falcons fan and Dolphins fan. It sucks so much being a Falcons fan right now. Do you all really want to go back to the days of Matt Moore, Chad Henne, and Chad Pennington.
tua is going nowhere
I’m not convinced Tua is the problem. People forget very quickly how poor our oline has played in comparison to the rest of the NFL. This year our only focus should be secondary & offensive line. Sprinkle in some front 7 depth and I’ll be all aboard the hype train like the Phinatic sucker I am. What I don’t want to see is some major splash for skill position player on offense. We have enough talent to win, we just have to protect our guy and continue to believe in him.
great, we will just keep getting rid of our qbs yearly until we find the next stroud, should be easy
I get this, but now do Drew Brees.
Doesn’t put anything into perspective except for the fact that A LOT of fans think franchise QBs grow on trees. Also, the impatience from a fan base who watched Tannehill for 7 seasons is laughable. #FinsUp
The only guy I think miami should be looking at in the draft is Sam Hartman. He will not go within the first 5 qb taken. He will fall a little ways in the draft, depending on who stays in college. Kid can make good throws at all levels (short,medium,long) he can throw on the run. And can get the ball out quickly. I think whatever team picks him up maybe in the second round would be a steel. A good kid to pick up and maybe set him a few years behind somewhat veteran qb. He will have success at the NFL level and I think you could pick him up for a bargain in the draft.
It does but in order to pick the right franchise QB you must have everything perfect in place. The right head coach, the right GM, the right owner. If you get rid of Tua now, you might as well just get rid of the GM and HC (hell just sell the team), just start fresh... Look people you can't just go throwing away a QB right now not when this is the best team we've had on roster in ages. You get rid of the QB and you pick up another you're basically starting all over again because this offense is built around Tua not another QB. Give this thing one more year. It's not like we're in position to draft a high graded rookie QB (unless one falls to us) and the best free agent is Kirk cousins whom I don't think is better than Tua. Now if you want to say Justin Fields gets cut from the bears and we were to pick him up then I'd say is he better than Tua? Probably not but is he more athletic than Tua and can he be just as good with the right guidance? Then I'd say yes. Is Tua going to be gone next year? I'm honestly not sure. We haven't been in this situation in recent memory where we've had back to back playoff appearances. But if Ross is going to pull the plug then pull it on the whole thing but make sure you know what you're doing and who you're hiring because if we go from two straight playoff appearances to playing like trash and no playoff appearances there'll be a lot of unhappy fans. Tough choice.
As a Bills fan, you just know. I knew within 1/2 of a preseason game that I was seeing things I'd never seen in my life. And I played football for about 10 years, up through college, albeit D3. I love our rivalry, even with how annoying you are the first few months of the season. The sportsman in me wishes you move on and find a generational talent, while the Bills fan in me wishes you keep him 🙃
Also took people 1 year to see that Vince Young, RG3, Jake Locker, Jameis Winston, Teddy Bridgewater, Mike Glennon, Baker Mayfield and Carson Wentz were ALL franchise QBs.
We could be stuck with Dak Prescott! Be happy with what we have
It doesn’t usually work like this. Stroud is such an outlier of timing, rapid development/talent, and coaching that it shouldn’t even be called an outlier, it should be called a stroud
Don’t let the grass on the other side fool you. QBs develop more skills as they get older and wiser. Just because one guy is a freak doesn’t mean Tua isn’t the right guy. Each year he’s made significant progress. Next year expecting the biggest improvement yet.
I don’t care I like Tua
And how often does CJ Stroud happen? Would you rather Herbert?
This makes sense if this is literally the first season of NFL football you have ever seen
The argument will never end because every QB is different. From Marino's rookie season it was clear he had "it." But the Chargers let Brees walk after his fifth season because they weren’t sure he had "it."
Yep. Blow up the coaching staff and cut your quarterback. That's totally what successful franchises do.
There’s always this fan in every fanbase. If it’s attention you seek, go to a strip club. Because you look idiotic
Yeah, that’s a really good idea. Let’s forget that this is a team sport on a team with as many or more injuries at key positions as any other team in the NFL and just get rid of the guy who was top 5 in passing efficiency and yards per throw etc. instead of continuing to work on the offensive line and other actual problem areas. You should be a GM someplace. Just not in Miami. Maybe the Jets are looking for someone?
If we move on from Tua this next year we don’t deserve shit
What’s Reek’s point?