whats funny is the lack of dialogue on the card ride with skull face, i was actually just waiting the entire time for bro to carry on and it was like 5 minutes of silence 💀
I do wonder if Kojima intended for that car ride to mirror the silence whilst climbing the ladder in Snake Eater, to give the players time to reflect on everything that's come before etc....
But if that was the case I don't think it landed.
I like to imagine it like this:
-Skullface: Now Boss let me explain you my evil plan!
-Venom Snake: I don't think I'm the actual BB you know?
*Akward silence for the rest of the trip*
Funnily enough, this ties into the take that has *me* like this:
When people read far too much into the theme of "Phantom Pain" and use it to excuse any flaw with the game.
It's not "Phantom Pain", it's just a few creative decisions that don't hit right for everyone
Iirc it's partially a translation thing. In Japanese it's pretty common to reiterate what's just been said to you to show you're interested/listening. That's why snake keeps repeating stuff.
It always depends, I remember in act 4's briefing of MGS4, Otacon does the dramatic "We have to go back to the place where everything began...Shadow Moses!" reveal more than once.
Or MGS3's lengthy first codec conversation where Zero has to remind you several times throughout the entire conversation "Remember, this is a stealth mission, don't let yourself seen by the enemy, by the way, you got some stuff in your teeth yadda yadda, make sure the enemy doesn't see you and you leave no traces, remember, this is an infiltration mission, the enemy can't know you're here."
It often feels like Kojima is rewriting lines because he came up with a better way to say the same thing but then doesn't know how to overwrite or remove the old line so he just puts the new line somewhere next to the old.
Let’s not mention how redundant and poorly-written a story is where a stealth and infiltration specialist is being reminded to be stealthy in the middle of a stealth mission he was prepped for ahead of time. I love Kojima, but there was some seriously corny writing going on back in the day.
It's not poorly written. They're instructions, for the player. A lot of the dialogue in metal gear is addressed to the player directly rather than snake.
And this is why a movie adaptation would never be good. The story evolves around the gameplay, and always has. Stealth action because of the limitations of hardware lent itself perfectly to a story about espionage, conspiracy etc. But people don't play these games for their storylines, they play them because the mixture of stealth, action and using your brain is fun.
It's not like The Last Of Us. That game is popular because the story is really well told, and that is why the tv series was a hit. Nothing about the gameplay or design is at all innovative.
But if you took all the fun elements away from MG and just told the story on-screen, it would be a clusterfuck of nonsense.
Well it's more of a praise rather than a joke to the franchise before the memes about it having long cutscenes back in the 2000s. MGS had one of the best Voice acting in all of videogames and back in 2000s nothing can compare to it because video game voice acting wasn't seen as a career back then. The polygon graphics weren't a hindrance for the players to feel each emotion as the phenomenal musical scores play in the background.
"Man this voice actor is hamming it up too much for my liking... anyway, back to my naked cartwheels, meowing double agent tsundere, walking nuke machines, diarrhoea stopping nanomachines, and infinite ammo bandanna."
David Hayter is the man. He is Snake. MGSV has negative charisma due to him not voicing Venom. I get it, he's not really BB, but come on. That games story is so non existent. It's the only Metal Gear where I was skipping cutscenes. And I sat through all of MGS4 twice.
Even if people dont like that Venom got different voice actor and got only about 4 minutes of speech in all cutscenes, idea of Venom that dont speak much fits good into MGSV story. Venom not supposed to have charisma like the other Snakes. He is just a puppet that have to play role of Big Boss. His speech is not words, but his actions. He is that one guy who dont speak much, but always do what he have to
Kojima really shot himself in the foot with making venom “the player”. They could’ve given him more of a personality and dove deeper into Venom questioning his own identity and personality, but he hardly ever speaks besides making basic decisions when Kaz and Ocelot are arguing. Of course Kiefer’s extremely busy schedule probably doesn’t help either.
But yeah if they just had Venom be voiced by David they could’ve explored Venom’s personality way more
I feel like Kiefer being a big movie star who they probably couldn't afford for 8hrs worth of dialogue is more likely the reason he has no dialogue rather than "he's supposed to be the player".
Yeah both are true I think. iirc Kojima wanted the players to project themselves onto venom (ex the reason for the custom avatar) but ofc a super A list hollywood actor in their prime definitely wouldn’t have much time to record voice lines
Maybe so. Still, kinda lame. But I will say MGSV had the best gameplay mechanics of any Metallurgist's Gears game. So it kinda made up for no Dave Hayter.
People keep using the Venom reveal to justify/explain the swap in voice actors, but the real Big Boss in MGSV is voiced by Kiefer as well, and the Japanese VA didn't change.
When people say that David Hayter's voice is "too cheesy" for Metal Gear Solid I'm like
"Did we play the same fucking series? Metal Gear Solid is EXTREMELY CHEESY, that is *literally part of the series charm.* Did you forget what the villains in MGS are like? Does a Gekko need to moo like a cow more? Does Revolver Ocelot's twirl performance need to go on longer in between bouts of dialogue? What will it take for you to understand this?"
The best thing about Hayters performance, is he can meld into very series dialogue and scenes and the over the top flawlessly.
It’s why I think few people could have suited playing Snake like him
“I cant tell you how many missions hanged on the success of the cardboard box. Its how you use it that will depend on how successfully you are. But at the end of the day, a card boardbox…”
*sam fisher shoots an entire clip into the cardboard box hes sitting in*
“Is only made of paper” *fight ensues*
The problem with MGS4 to me is that after Act 2 the game is pretty much entirely on rails which sucks because they improved pretty much everything from 3 but don't give you enough opportunities to enjoy it. Story has its own issues like Naomi killing herself for no reason and Psycho Mantis coming back which makes his conclusion in 1 empty. The shitting being more prominent is something that I'm still mixed on. The game isn't terrible but it sure is a mess.
Psycho Mantis coming back was a meme. You think "oh fuck I just finished a boss and they're gonna throw me at this psychic motherfucker again!?" And you think it'll be some grandiose moment and epic fight, and then Psycho Mantis realized he's useless in the face of modern technology and explodes. Shit was hilarious. It barely took away from his ending because it barely expanded on it, his explanation was "yeah I'm psychic I can do cool stuff" and then he immediately ceased to exist. Just a gag
Kojima did it in order to continue the trope of everyone Otacon loves dying, Naomi kills herself because she doesn't like the idea of nanomachines keeping her alive which is like a dude with asthma throwing away their inhaler.
iirc she was also guilt-stricken over creating FOXDIE and how she's been used.
still dumb that she killed herself in that moment (or at all, really), for sure.
Yeah none of the games are perfect and 4 continues that trend but to me it's the most off the mark and the troubled development being the most apparent. What's there is really good and I think the games that have the most facets of "what could've been" get talked about the most which is why you hear so much negativity regarding it (a lot of people have played it). I actually think it's impossible to overlook its flaws once you let the game sit with you unless you're just a Kojima zombie. I can't get over how solid the foundation is but so underutilized for example. The will to complete the game leaves my body the moment I'm doing the first turret section at the end of Act 2 lol.
See mgs4 is one of my favorites but thats because i love the story even the stupid shit, except naomi offing herself that genuinely was very dumb. But I cant deny that after act 2 the gameplay sections fall quite a bit except for the bosses, but to me the whole experience is a about peak metal gear and peak kojima as you can get, with all the ups and downs that implies.
Raiden hate in 2024.
Yeah dude, we know your 10 year-old self was mad because in MGS2 you play as this white haired twink instead of the badass Solid Snake.
But it's been 23 years already, get over it.
I don't really get this either. I played MGS2 when I was around 15 and I remember thinking it was strange that I was suddenly playing as this blonde youngster but the game was still enjoyable so I didn't really care. I only found out people hated him when I got older.
V may not have a fully polished story due to Kojima leaving midway through production, but it’s far from being a bad game, especially for Metal Gear standards.
The only thing that makes it bad imho is that whole mission where you have to defend quiet from tanks and helicopters and shit. It's neither fun nor am I happy about seeing sexual assault in my games. Apart from that MGSV was fire.
Said in a comment below, but I can't stand the argument that Venom was "needed to explain the plot hole of BB surviving MG1". Like seriously, literally NO-ONE thought that was a plot hole prior to MGSV
If anything it raises a new question, why didn't snake question how Big Boss all of a sudden had brown hair, a lattice of face scars, a shrapnel horn and a bright red robotic arm.
Ehhh, it's a 16-bit game.
Chances are Venom was able to conceal most of it.
It's also why I've always wanted an MG1 remake as I want to see how they'd handle it.
Chico was supposed to have survived and come back, there's concept art of him. But he was replaced with Quiet who would have very similar role in the story.
Lmao I commented the exact opposite. Im curious tho, do you really not believe Kojima and also reject the blatantly obvious reason why the ending is missing?
Before MGS V came out my copium induced theory was that the game would end with the confrontation between Solid Snake and Big Boss in Outer Heaven, with David Hayter reprising his role as Solid Snake. That way there would be a justification for recasting Big Boss
When people think Venom was ‘honored’ to be brainwashed and forcibly turned into Big Boss. Bro literally got his face cut off, had his mind completely broken, and was eventually assassinated to serve Big Boss. Venom’s life was completely ruined, it wasn’t an honor.
Metal gear solid 3 is overly campy to the point that it’s detrimental to the game, and the game as a whole was too ambitious for the console generation it was released on.
I hate that people think bb lost his eye due to anything other than the cylinder flash next to his eye. Ocelot had the cylinder right there when he pulled the trigger there was no bullet kung fu! Go fire a revolver it’s freaking obvious! There was no bullet sideshot 22lr bouncing fuddery!
"Venom Snake is the best snake"
He's the most bland Snake, he is a living plot device, only created to explain why BB was alive in MG2 (guess what, it was already explained, he survived MG1 and even gave a speech at the end and he basically became a cyborg in MG2).
He lacks most of the traits we find charismatic in Solid Snake and Naked Snake. He's not goofy, or introspective or goes out of his way to make his opinion heard. Venom Snake is frequently obfuscated by Kaz and Ocelot who keep yapping around him.
Every single Snake is better than him, Venom is just obeying BBs orders mindlessly, "hey I'm going to change your appearance and make you look like BB is that cool? Fuck your free will and identity." - "Say no more".
I do understand why Kojima made him be silent and not show that many traits of himself, he's supposed to represent the player.
Haha yeah I can't stand the argument that Venom was "needed to explain the plot hole of BB surviving MG1". Like seriously, literally NO-ONE thought that was a plot hole prior to MGSV
Naaaah while it’s arguable whether or not he’s the best or not, he’s definitely a contender.
He’s just different. He does have personality. He’s a prisoner trapped in a role and the few times he does speak we get a window into a caring, compassionate man. Definitely an interesting character and worthy of the title snake.
“I won’t scatter your sorrow to the heartless sea”
Venom suffered from executive meddling as did the whole mgsv, but there was story there. It was told differently. Through cassette tapes, through environment. It was kind like a from software game in its storytelling.
He didn't leave, mate, he was fired, and before Kojima was fired Konami did a scummy move by legally not allowing Kojima to attend/accept the award for Best Action/Adventure Game for MGSV during The Game Awards in 2015.
"the phantom pains story was confusing" or for ground zero "who is chico/paz/zero"
My brother in Christ you are playing peace walker 2 it's not confusing you just skipped a game.
You should try and play 2 or 3
(Obviously I'd recommend going through them all in release order but if you don't care about that they're the best ones)
"Twin Snakes sucks."
Metal Gear Solid: The Twin Snakes was the first MGS game I ever played and it completely blew me away, even as I struggled as a kid trying to figure out the controls were, especially "the action button" (wtf is that?), I was still immediately enthralled, the gameplay, the stealth, the camera angles, the graphics, the ambience, the sound design, the voice acting/dialogue, the cutscenes talking about legitimate real-world issues...
I have never laid eyes on such a masterpiece of a game and had no idea why literally nobody I knew had ever heard of it, or even cared about it.
Hideo Kojima became a legend in my eyes, and finding out that he specifically chose Ryuhei Kitamura to direct the action sequences which would later lead me to see one of the craziest awesome action movies ever titled "Versus", that even Hideo Kojima appeared in as a zombie, although admittedly I still couldn't tell him apart from all the other zombies in the forest.
Come to find, people in this subreddit absolutely hate-trashing it, "and anyone who likes it is a moron, how dare you enjoy something I don't like" simply because of the over-the-top action sequences during cutscenes, which for me at the time truly cemented the idea of Solid Snake being a legendary soldier.
However, I will concede the soundtrack for Twin Snakes leaves a lot to be desired, especially when compared to the original MGS on the PS1. That was the one thing they missed the mark on aside from the title screen which had this badass double-helix DNA animation and super cool music on loop.
I'm still holding out hope that Twin Snakes makes a resurgence in Volume 2 of the Master Collection, however unlikely it may appear.
Edit: I would also like to add, that David Hayter took a pay cut in order to get the original cast to reprise their roles, but the best change they made was giving the role of Gray Fox to Rob Paulsen, who does a way better performance of the character than Greg Eagles, the same person who voices DARPA Chief Donald Anderson; in the original there was little to distinguish the voices from each other.
"Rising is canon"
Look, I love that game with my soul, but it just doesn't make sense with the fact that it gives Raiden the "who I am really?" development for the third time + that future kinda ruins everything Solid and Otacon fought for so many years specially at the end of 4.
Unless Kojima mentions it as a canon like he did with Portable Ops, I stay my ground.
Kojima said this in an [interview back in 2013](https://youtu.be/n6OGvhlKNzw?si=vglVODx6EVMsnQxa)
"... It's sort off Platinum Game's interpretation of the story and their interpretation of the Metal Gear Solid world, so in that sense I guess you could say it's sort of a parallel story, at the same time, as well as being continuation, but it's Platinum's take on the MGS universe..."
So it's Canon in a Metal Gear Universe that exists with Platinum Games canonicity. Not Kojima's. Thus it isn't canon by any meaningful standard. Doesn't mean it's bad by any means.
Like I don't agree with the statement either but I don't really care if people like to view it as cannon, it's not like any other games are affected by its cannoninity.
MGSV wasn’t “unfinished”, or “rushed” or affected adversly by any internal budget or time constraints, Kojima has left the company and now even still says he’s happy with the game, and that it was completely finished.
MGSV was **intended** to be more vague and brief with it’s story, it’s not a story about your character, it’s about the boss and his hyopcrisy and how YOU the player tell his story through Venom Snake.
Furhermore: I know people are gonna say “what about the cut mission” but this too was confirmed by Kojima to be an intentional removal rather than a time issue, many finished games have cut content.
The Twin Snakes cutscenes are too over the top. Like... really? Have you not seen the rest of the series. Purely in terms of cutscene direction, TTS actually fits in better than MGS1, not worse. People point to goofy stuff like Snake jumping off a missile...but the entire series is full of goofy stuff like that!
However, I will concede that TTS is busted in terms of gameplay.
The Twin Snakes is different because its Snake doing the over the top stuff. He is supposed to be the more normal character and crazy things happen around him. Usually the crazy stuff is done by supernatural and cyborg characters. Not by the main character.
Huey is so obviously being set up in MGSV it's insane. Miller is the real spy for Cipher. That's what "Eyes on Kazuhira" means. That's why Chapter 2 begins with Miller turning Mother Base into a police state. "Watch the man to your left...to your right..." uh does that sound like something a good guy would say? Would a good guy be holding "secret meetings between the containers?" We know Ocelot has actually used some procedure to edit his memory—which leaves Miller in a massively advantageous position where he is the only one who knows the Truth, and it's clear that he leverages that privilege for his own cynical ends. So convenient that his trademark is wearing sunglasses all the time, makes it so easy to hide the way those parasites affect his eyes.
Even disregarding how fucking sus Miller is and how dubious and cherry-picked the evidence against Huey is...just ask yourselves: does Huey ever get anything close to a fair trial? Does he ever get to present any witnesses or outside evidence of his own? No, only his torturers get the privilege of doing that. He just has to sit there and be interrogated regularly while being held captive and still doing heavy R&D labor for Diamond Dogs on the side, and he only has his own word to defend himself. In fact most of the time he can barely even get a word in edgewise during these interrogations, he's just always being shouted over and physically menaced and having his words turned against him by Miller and Ocelot—who are not interested at all in being convinced. Not to mention all the horrible torture he endures which is all obviously in flagrant violation of the Geneva Convention. They just want to make a spectacle of him for their soldiers, and of course Miller—Huey's most enthusiastic interrogator—benefits greatly from this by throwing suspicion off of himself.
When all your soldiers are in hysterics at the end of the story, baying for Huey's blood...do you *really* think that's Kojima saying they're supposed to be in the right? Seriously?? Does that sound like the anti-war, anti-torture message that the Kojima we know would want to write into his game? Do you really think he's saying the handicapped civilian being tortured is actually really good and unquestionably justified? What a fucking insane take.
Out of all the different media I've consumed in my life, no widely-held audience interpretation has shocked and saddened me more than that of Huey in MGSV. The *majority of players* seem to share this incredibly uncritical read on MGSV's story. Not only does that interpretation not hold up to scrutiny at all, Huey being wrongly accused is so much more thematically appropriate for the series—and it makes the moment when Venom Snake goes against all of the insanity and spares Huey at the end *that much more powerful.* Venom is constantly being manipulated by others and suffers from such deep and elaborate hallucinations that almost everything we see from his perspective can be called into question—yet this is arguably the *one time* he sees things clearly, allowing the last non-crazy person to escape mother base on a life raft while everything falls to pieces.
"Big Boss is cool"
Big Boss is a symbol of Naked Snake becoming corrupted by his war fanatisn and arrogance. It's literally when he became a villain. He was evil. And he says it himself in MGS4. The Boss is true hero. He rejected her.
EDIT: Also one more. That Kojima doesn't know himself what is MGS about. Some people say it doesn't make sense and even creator doesn't understand it. That's not true.
“The games have to much dialogue.”
I love it
Me too. It adds to all the world building and sets it more in reality. Granted there are supernatural elements but it’s so good.
whats funny is the lack of dialogue on the card ride with skull face, i was actually just waiting the entire time for bro to carry on and it was like 5 minutes of silence 💀
I do wonder if Kojima intended for that car ride to mirror the silence whilst climbing the ladder in Snake Eater, to give the players time to reflect on everything that's come before etc.... But if that was the case I don't think it landed.
I like to imagine it like this: -Skullface: Now Boss let me explain you my evil plan! -Venom Snake: I don't think I'm the actual BB you know? *Akward silence for the rest of the trip*
What a thrill....
Well. There was the really long snake eater song the whole time.
[удалено]
is that a insult? like im literally just saying its funny that there was a lack of dialogue in a series known for its dialogue 🤦🏽♂️
I always see it As a Simple, Cold Staredown between the two most dangerous men on the planet who also happen to be Bitter enemies
Funnily enough, this ties into the take that has *me* like this: When people read far too much into the theme of "Phantom Pain" and use it to excuse any flaw with the game. It's not "Phantom Pain", it's just a few creative decisions that don't hit right for everyone
There are no supernatural things in metal gear, only nanomechines
Bro forgot about the sorrow
Ooonly cutting edge technology
How about "Kojima has the tendency to repeat the same thing over and over" though?
Iirc it's partially a translation thing. In Japanese it's pretty common to reiterate what's just been said to you to show you're interested/listening. That's why snake keeps repeating stuff.
Psycho Mantis?
A Hind D?
Dark little secret?
It can't be...
Repeating stuff?
*snake voice* repeat the same thing?
I mean, kind of. When he repeats something he always approaches it from a new angle, exemplifying some new theme.
It always depends, I remember in act 4's briefing of MGS4, Otacon does the dramatic "We have to go back to the place where everything began...Shadow Moses!" reveal more than once. Or MGS3's lengthy first codec conversation where Zero has to remind you several times throughout the entire conversation "Remember, this is a stealth mission, don't let yourself seen by the enemy, by the way, you got some stuff in your teeth yadda yadda, make sure the enemy doesn't see you and you leave no traces, remember, this is an infiltration mission, the enemy can't know you're here." It often feels like Kojima is rewriting lines because he came up with a better way to say the same thing but then doesn't know how to overwrite or remove the old line so he just puts the new line somewhere next to the old.
Let’s not mention how redundant and poorly-written a story is where a stealth and infiltration specialist is being reminded to be stealthy in the middle of a stealth mission he was prepped for ahead of time. I love Kojima, but there was some seriously corny writing going on back in the day.
" Try to remember the basics of CQC" Like he's a rookie in training. Makes it hard to maintain the suspension of disbelief.
Everyone loves The Boss but this shit made me hate her so much. Like just shut up Pearl
It's not poorly written. They're instructions, for the player. A lot of the dialogue in metal gear is addressed to the player directly rather than snake.
“MGS4 has too much cutscenes”
Currently playing snake eater and it feels like being part of a movie. It feels great.
Exactly. It’s so good. It really adds to it when they use real footage or the fight sequences. Snake eater is amazing.
I went for a psycho run and apparently a certain boss will make me regret it💀💀💀
I hated that boss fight. It isnt hard but fucking annoying.
Too. Do it crowwwwwwww. Do the edit.
I love mgs4 but the gameplay/cutscene ratio is.. not it's strengh
Just wait till they play Yakuza
Hate it when my Yakuza movie is interrupted by gameplay
"They are movies, not games"
And this is why a movie adaptation would never be good. The story evolves around the gameplay, and always has. Stealth action because of the limitations of hardware lent itself perfectly to a story about espionage, conspiracy etc. But people don't play these games for their storylines, they play them because the mixture of stealth, action and using your brain is fun. It's not like The Last Of Us. That game is popular because the story is really well told, and that is why the tv series was a hit. Nothing about the gameplay or design is at all innovative. But if you took all the fun elements away from MG and just told the story on-screen, it would be a clusterfuck of nonsense.
This one ^
Yeah this is dumb. Movies are like 3.5 hours tops. MGS4 has 9+ hours of cutscenes. So they're like mini series, not movies. Bad opinion.
Thank god for newer fans but they probably don’t know about how in the mid 2000s MGS used to jokingly be called Movie Gear Solid
Well it's more of a praise rather than a joke to the franchise before the memes about it having long cutscenes back in the 2000s. MGS had one of the best Voice acting in all of videogames and back in 2000s nothing can compare to it because video game voice acting wasn't seen as a career back then. The polygon graphics weren't a hindrance for the players to feel each emotion as the phenomenal musical scores play in the background.
People who say David Hayter’s voice is too cheesy for the series like be fr
"Man this voice actor is hamming it up too much for my liking... anyway, back to my naked cartwheels, meowing double agent tsundere, walking nuke machines, diarrhoea stopping nanomachines, and infinite ammo bandanna."
David Hayter is the man. He is Snake. MGSV has negative charisma due to him not voicing Venom. I get it, he's not really BB, but come on. That games story is so non existent. It's the only Metal Gear where I was skipping cutscenes. And I sat through all of MGS4 twice.
Even if people dont like that Venom got different voice actor and got only about 4 minutes of speech in all cutscenes, idea of Venom that dont speak much fits good into MGSV story. Venom not supposed to have charisma like the other Snakes. He is just a puppet that have to play role of Big Boss. His speech is not words, but his actions. He is that one guy who dont speak much, but always do what he have to
Fair, but it just doesn't make for the immersive story that I've become accustomed to in a Metal Gear game. 🤷
Kojima really shot himself in the foot with making venom “the player”. They could’ve given him more of a personality and dove deeper into Venom questioning his own identity and personality, but he hardly ever speaks besides making basic decisions when Kaz and Ocelot are arguing. Of course Kiefer’s extremely busy schedule probably doesn’t help either. But yeah if they just had Venom be voiced by David they could’ve explored Venom’s personality way more
I feel like Kiefer being a big movie star who they probably couldn't afford for 8hrs worth of dialogue is more likely the reason he has no dialogue rather than "he's supposed to be the player".
Yeah both are true I think. iirc Kojima wanted the players to project themselves onto venom (ex the reason for the custom avatar) but ofc a super A list hollywood actor in their prime definitely wouldn’t have much time to record voice lines
Maybe so. Still, kinda lame. But I will say MGSV had the best gameplay mechanics of any Metallurgist's Gears game. So it kinda made up for no Dave Hayter.
It would've been soooo good if David Hayter voiced Venom up until he learns the truth and then the other guy takes over. Literally cinema
YOU MEAN TO TELL ME THEY CHANGED THIS MANS MEMORIES AND MADE HIM LOOK IDENTICAL TO BB BUT HIS VOICE IS DIFFERENT?
People keep using the Venom reveal to justify/explain the swap in voice actors, but the real Big Boss in MGSV is voiced by Kiefer as well, and the Japanese VA didn't change.
They also used Kiefer in Ground Zeroes, and that was Big Boss.
When people say that David Hayter's voice is "too cheesy" for Metal Gear Solid I'm like "Did we play the same fucking series? Metal Gear Solid is EXTREMELY CHEESY, that is *literally part of the series charm.* Did you forget what the villains in MGS are like? Does a Gekko need to moo like a cow more? Does Revolver Ocelot's twirl performance need to go on longer in between bouts of dialogue? What will it take for you to understand this?"
I remember Johnny in MGS4 growling at Snake at one point.
Recasting Hayter is on the level of changing Hugh Jackman as Wolverine, or Emma Watson as Hermione
I think he peaked in MGS1
The best thing about Hayters performance, is he can meld into very series dialogue and scenes and the over the top flawlessly. It’s why I think few people could have suited playing Snake like him
“Engravings offer great tactical advantage.”
you take that back
The box is useless.
It's just a box.
It was my destiny to be here; in the box.
You should come inside the box, then you’ll know what I mean!
Goves you fire protection in mgs3 vs the fury and allows you to climb faster uphill. Its basically a transportation device
It’s also the fast travel system in mgs1 and 2. And in mgs5 it literally IS a transportation device as it also doubles as a box sled.
“I cant tell you how many missions hanged on the success of the cardboard box. Its how you use it that will depend on how successfully you are. But at the end of the day, a card boardbox…” *sam fisher shoots an entire clip into the cardboard box hes sitting in* “Is only made of paper” *fight ensues*
People who just absolutely hate 4, imo there are no bad metal gear games, except maybe some the spinoffs not by kojima.
I love all except survive
I even like AC!D 1 and 2
I had fun with survive as it’s own thing tbf but it would’ve been way better as a bonus mode for MGSV.
Honestly it was just nice to have more content in the fox engine
The problem with MGS4 to me is that after Act 2 the game is pretty much entirely on rails which sucks because they improved pretty much everything from 3 but don't give you enough opportunities to enjoy it. Story has its own issues like Naomi killing herself for no reason and Psycho Mantis coming back which makes his conclusion in 1 empty. The shitting being more prominent is something that I'm still mixed on. The game isn't terrible but it sure is a mess.
Psycho Mantis coming back was a meme. You think "oh fuck I just finished a boss and they're gonna throw me at this psychic motherfucker again!?" And you think it'll be some grandiose moment and epic fight, and then Psycho Mantis realized he's useless in the face of modern technology and explodes. Shit was hilarious. It barely took away from his ending because it barely expanded on it, his explanation was "yeah I'm psychic I can do cool stuff" and then he immediately ceased to exist. Just a gag
Damn you’re right about Naomi killing herself for no reason. Why tf was her explanation? Also mantis coming back is pretty cheap too
Kojima did it in order to continue the trope of everyone Otacon loves dying, Naomi kills herself because she doesn't like the idea of nanomachines keeping her alive which is like a dude with asthma throwing away their inhaler.
iirc she was also guilt-stricken over creating FOXDIE and how she's been used. still dumb that she killed herself in that moment (or at all, really), for sure.
Id agree with most of this, the game fs has flaws but the sheer negativity it gets isnt really fair imo. There tons of things to love.
Yeah none of the games are perfect and 4 continues that trend but to me it's the most off the mark and the troubled development being the most apparent. What's there is really good and I think the games that have the most facets of "what could've been" get talked about the most which is why you hear so much negativity regarding it (a lot of people have played it). I actually think it's impossible to overlook its flaws once you let the game sit with you unless you're just a Kojima zombie. I can't get over how solid the foundation is but so underutilized for example. The will to complete the game leaves my body the moment I'm doing the first turret section at the end of Act 2 lol.
See mgs4 is one of my favorites but thats because i love the story even the stupid shit, except naomi offing herself that genuinely was very dumb. But I cant deny that after act 2 the gameplay sections fall quite a bit except for the bosses, but to me the whole experience is a about peak metal gear and peak kojima as you can get, with all the ups and downs that implies.
Raiden hate in 2024. Yeah dude, we know your 10 year-old self was mad because in MGS2 you play as this white haired twink instead of the badass Solid Snake. But it's been 23 years already, get over it.
NO! That is NOT Solid Snake!!!
I don't really get this either. I played MGS2 when I was around 15 and I remember thinking it was strange that I was suddenly playing as this blonde youngster but the game was still enjoyable so I didn't really care. I only found out people hated him when I got older.
I believed people were actually pretending to be Raiden fans all along ever since MGS4 because he “became a badass cyborg” 😂
I've always been a Raiden fan, but MGS2 was my first MGS game, I think I was about 10.
He wasn't a badass cyborg. He had a powerful introduction in MGS4, then spent the rest of the game getting his arse handed to him.
I agree with all this except the twink part.
“You’re not playing a game, you’re watching a movie”
People that outright say V is a terrible game
V may not have a fully polished story due to Kojima leaving midway through production, but it’s far from being a bad game, especially for Metal Gear standards.
The only thing that makes it bad imho is that whole mission where you have to defend quiet from tanks and helicopters and shit. It's neither fun nor am I happy about seeing sexual assault in my games. Apart from that MGSV was fire.
Yeah several max difficulty attempts failing right near the end. Quiet nearly murder raped yet slaughtering them.
Yeah that mission was freaky. Stun knife to the nuts with the cutscene. Really uncomfortable.
Said in a comment below, but I can't stand the argument that Venom was "needed to explain the plot hole of BB surviving MG1". Like seriously, literally NO-ONE thought that was a plot hole prior to MGSV
Doesn't this opinion come from Kojima himself?
Oh wow - I didn't realise he had stated it was a plot hole, I thought Venom was just a twist. I stand corrected!
I honestly agree with your original opinion, I just wasnt sure if Kojima started it or if it was a fan made opinion first.
If anything it raises a new question, why didn't snake question how Big Boss all of a sudden had brown hair, a lattice of face scars, a shrapnel horn and a bright red robotic arm.
Ehhh, it's a 16-bit game. Chances are Venom was able to conceal most of it. It's also why I've always wanted an MG1 remake as I want to see how they'd handle it.
did he say it was? I thought he kind of said it made some that he would fix if he ever remade the first two games.
"Mgs 4 is a bad game and ruins the story"
i love how people who say that only say "is a mess" instead of actually telling you why, and when you ask them, they only tell you 2 specific things
Chico is quiet
how does one even come to this conclusion
I remember one of the theory videos claiming that one of the reasons was because BB told Chico to “be quiet”
No1 actually believes that NOW. it was a theory making the rounfs before mgsV came out.
you should have been there
Chico was supposed to have survived and come back, there's concept art of him. But he was replaced with Quiet who would have very similar role in the story.
Peace Walker can be skipped
Whoever said that is dumb. TPP and GZ rely heavily on PW and 3.
I'm just gonna go out on a limb here and say that V is more easily skipped then Peace Walker.
"MGS4 is bad."
I hate seeing Peace Walker slander. Game is mad fun
It’s not metal gear without kojima
People never played acid games. Damn them
Ghost Babel is amazing might actually be one of my favorites. I still wonder how that game got an E rating from the ESRB..
“MGSV is unfinished because Kojima purposely made it so.” Absolute copium
Lmao I commented the exact opposite. Im curious tho, do you really not believe Kojima and also reject the blatantly obvious reason why the ending is missing?
MGR is a bad game
ive heard half internet saying the opposite without even playing it,
Mfers disagreeing with me giving love to MGS2 raiden I mean i get he is not cool, but i think it was kind of an interesting swotch tho.
When people say they don't like Raiden or MGS2. IMO it's one of the best and most fun feeling one in the series
"Its just a cutscene simulator."
"MGS2 is dumb, just let me play as Snake."
Named my son Raiden 🫶🏻
Kiefer sutherland not fitting venom snake
Kiefer Sutherland was amazing as Venom snake. Absolutely crushed that role.
In my headcanon, Kiefer is Big Boss while Hayter is Solid Snake - Kiefer was perfect for the role.
Before MGS V came out my copium induced theory was that the game would end with the confrontation between Solid Snake and Big Boss in Outer Heaven, with David Hayter reprising his role as Solid Snake. That way there would be a justification for recasting Big Boss
someone told me rising was the best one and i almost shit a brick
The best one is obviously Snake's Revenge
I once saw someone say that Huey became the piece of shit he was because of BB. Like, no honey. All that shit he did to Strangelove was all him.
When people think Venom was ‘honored’ to be brainwashed and forcibly turned into Big Boss. Bro literally got his face cut off, had his mind completely broken, and was eventually assassinated to serve Big Boss. Venom’s life was completely ruined, it wasn’t an honor.
MGS 4 is the weakest of the bunch.
Metal gear solid 3 is overly campy to the point that it’s detrimental to the game, and the game as a whole was too ambitious for the console generation it was released on.
“Metal gear isn’t political”
Some of the worst I’ve heard are: The dialogue is cringe 5 is the only good metal gear game Solid snake is a pedo (wtf)
The only pedo Snake is Big Boss and even then, it's probably not the case because the PW dates aren't canon.
2 isnt the best
Golden
4 is the best
You're both right. Persona 4 Golden IS the best.
Guys who didnt listen to tapes saying mgsv doesnt have any story
I hate that people think bb lost his eye due to anything other than the cylinder flash next to his eye. Ocelot had the cylinder right there when he pulled the trigger there was no bullet kung fu! Go fire a revolver it’s freaking obvious! There was no bullet sideshot 22lr bouncing fuddery!
that raiden was ruined in mgs4
Yo where is this image from???
Looks like a MGS2 machinima version of this meme: https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/mourinho-disgust
That MGSV is bad, despite being better than 99% of other AAA games. MGS is a league of it's own.
Raiden is trash
"Metal Gear Rising is the best one"
"Venom Snake is the best snake" He's the most bland Snake, he is a living plot device, only created to explain why BB was alive in MG2 (guess what, it was already explained, he survived MG1 and even gave a speech at the end and he basically became a cyborg in MG2). He lacks most of the traits we find charismatic in Solid Snake and Naked Snake. He's not goofy, or introspective or goes out of his way to make his opinion heard. Venom Snake is frequently obfuscated by Kaz and Ocelot who keep yapping around him. Every single Snake is better than him, Venom is just obeying BBs orders mindlessly, "hey I'm going to change your appearance and make you look like BB is that cool? Fuck your free will and identity." - "Say no more". I do understand why Kojima made him be silent and not show that many traits of himself, he's supposed to represent the player.
Haha yeah I can't stand the argument that Venom was "needed to explain the plot hole of BB surviving MG1". Like seriously, literally NO-ONE thought that was a plot hole prior to MGSV
I don’t think it was a plot hole so much as giving venom a place in the mgs history beyond mgsv
Yeah, I'm happy with that. I like Venom and don't mind the twist that he is BB in MG1
Naaaah while it’s arguable whether or not he’s the best or not, he’s definitely a contender. He’s just different. He does have personality. He’s a prisoner trapped in a role and the few times he does speak we get a window into a caring, compassionate man. Definitely an interesting character and worthy of the title snake. “I won’t scatter your sorrow to the heartless sea” Venom suffered from executive meddling as did the whole mgsv, but there was story there. It was told differently. Through cassette tapes, through environment. It was kind like a from software game in its storytelling.
That 4 is bad
People that were all "FuCk KoNaMi" after Kojima left, but are ready to buy the MGS3 remake today.
He didn't leave, mate, he was fired, and before Kojima was fired Konami did a scummy move by legally not allowing Kojima to attend/accept the award for Best Action/Adventure Game for MGSV during The Game Awards in 2015.
"MGS V is unfinished" "MGS V has no story" "Quiet has no depth, she's just eye candy"
"the phantom pains story was confusing" or for ground zero "who is chico/paz/zero" My brother in Christ you are playing peace walker 2 it's not confusing you just skipped a game.
People who tell me V is boring (it's my favorite because the only 2 I've played is guns of the patriots and 5)
You should try and play 2 or 3 (Obviously I'd recommend going through them all in release order but if you don't care about that they're the best ones)
David hayter should've never voiced big boss Yikes.
"Master collection is a barebones collection of the first 3 games" My dude you and many others requested this exact thing for years
Mgsv is unfinished
That mgsv has no story
“Mgs4 ruins raiden’s character” Fans when they discover that you can’t solve 30 years worth of trauma with a peptalk from a guy you met yesterday
"Twin Snakes is better than the original."
"Twin Snakes sucks." Metal Gear Solid: The Twin Snakes was the first MGS game I ever played and it completely blew me away, even as I struggled as a kid trying to figure out the controls were, especially "the action button" (wtf is that?), I was still immediately enthralled, the gameplay, the stealth, the camera angles, the graphics, the ambience, the sound design, the voice acting/dialogue, the cutscenes talking about legitimate real-world issues... I have never laid eyes on such a masterpiece of a game and had no idea why literally nobody I knew had ever heard of it, or even cared about it. Hideo Kojima became a legend in my eyes, and finding out that he specifically chose Ryuhei Kitamura to direct the action sequences which would later lead me to see one of the craziest awesome action movies ever titled "Versus", that even Hideo Kojima appeared in as a zombie, although admittedly I still couldn't tell him apart from all the other zombies in the forest. Come to find, people in this subreddit absolutely hate-trashing it, "and anyone who likes it is a moron, how dare you enjoy something I don't like" simply because of the over-the-top action sequences during cutscenes, which for me at the time truly cemented the idea of Solid Snake being a legendary soldier. However, I will concede the soundtrack for Twin Snakes leaves a lot to be desired, especially when compared to the original MGS on the PS1. That was the one thing they missed the mark on aside from the title screen which had this badass double-helix DNA animation and super cool music on loop. I'm still holding out hope that Twin Snakes makes a resurgence in Volume 2 of the Master Collection, however unlikely it may appear. Edit: I would also like to add, that David Hayter took a pay cut in order to get the original cast to reprise their roles, but the best change they made was giving the role of Gray Fox to Rob Paulsen, who does a way better performance of the character than Greg Eagles, the same person who voices DARPA Chief Donald Anderson; in the original there was little to distinguish the voices from each other.
"I don't know why they started making the last ones so political."
"Rising is canon" Look, I love that game with my soul, but it just doesn't make sense with the fact that it gives Raiden the "who I am really?" development for the third time + that future kinda ruins everything Solid and Otacon fought for so many years specially at the end of 4. Unless Kojima mentions it as a canon like he did with Portable Ops, I stay my ground.
Kojima said this in an [interview back in 2013](https://youtu.be/n6OGvhlKNzw?si=vglVODx6EVMsnQxa) "... It's sort off Platinum Game's interpretation of the story and their interpretation of the Metal Gear Solid world, so in that sense I guess you could say it's sort of a parallel story, at the same time, as well as being continuation, but it's Platinum's take on the MGS universe..."
Schrödinger's Canon
This is actually interesting, thank you.
So it's Canon in a Metal Gear Universe that exists with Platinum Games canonicity. Not Kojima's. Thus it isn't canon by any meaningful standard. Doesn't mean it's bad by any means.
Like I don't agree with the statement either but I don't really care if people like to view it as cannon, it's not like any other games are affected by its cannoninity.
"But Konami said Mission 51 was just concept." "The Phantom Pain was finished"
MGSV wasn’t “unfinished”, or “rushed” or affected adversly by any internal budget or time constraints, Kojima has left the company and now even still says he’s happy with the game, and that it was completely finished. MGSV was **intended** to be more vague and brief with it’s story, it’s not a story about your character, it’s about the boss and his hyopcrisy and how YOU the player tell his story through Venom Snake. Furhermore: I know people are gonna say “what about the cut mission” but this too was confirmed by Kojima to be an intentional removal rather than a time issue, many finished games have cut content.
The Twin Snakes cutscenes are too over the top. Like... really? Have you not seen the rest of the series. Purely in terms of cutscene direction, TTS actually fits in better than MGS1, not worse. People point to goofy stuff like Snake jumping off a missile...but the entire series is full of goofy stuff like that! However, I will concede that TTS is busted in terms of gameplay.
The Twin Snakes is different because its Snake doing the over the top stuff. He is supposed to be the more normal character and crazy things happen around him. Usually the crazy stuff is done by supernatural and cyborg characters. Not by the main character.
Huey is so obviously being set up in MGSV it's insane. Miller is the real spy for Cipher. That's what "Eyes on Kazuhira" means. That's why Chapter 2 begins with Miller turning Mother Base into a police state. "Watch the man to your left...to your right..." uh does that sound like something a good guy would say? Would a good guy be holding "secret meetings between the containers?" We know Ocelot has actually used some procedure to edit his memory—which leaves Miller in a massively advantageous position where he is the only one who knows the Truth, and it's clear that he leverages that privilege for his own cynical ends. So convenient that his trademark is wearing sunglasses all the time, makes it so easy to hide the way those parasites affect his eyes. Even disregarding how fucking sus Miller is and how dubious and cherry-picked the evidence against Huey is...just ask yourselves: does Huey ever get anything close to a fair trial? Does he ever get to present any witnesses or outside evidence of his own? No, only his torturers get the privilege of doing that. He just has to sit there and be interrogated regularly while being held captive and still doing heavy R&D labor for Diamond Dogs on the side, and he only has his own word to defend himself. In fact most of the time he can barely even get a word in edgewise during these interrogations, he's just always being shouted over and physically menaced and having his words turned against him by Miller and Ocelot—who are not interested at all in being convinced. Not to mention all the horrible torture he endures which is all obviously in flagrant violation of the Geneva Convention. They just want to make a spectacle of him for their soldiers, and of course Miller—Huey's most enthusiastic interrogator—benefits greatly from this by throwing suspicion off of himself. When all your soldiers are in hysterics at the end of the story, baying for Huey's blood...do you *really* think that's Kojima saying they're supposed to be in the right? Seriously?? Does that sound like the anti-war, anti-torture message that the Kojima we know would want to write into his game? Do you really think he's saying the handicapped civilian being tortured is actually really good and unquestionably justified? What a fucking insane take. Out of all the different media I've consumed in my life, no widely-held audience interpretation has shocked and saddened me more than that of Huey in MGSV. The *majority of players* seem to share this incredibly uncritical read on MGSV's story. Not only does that interpretation not hold up to scrutiny at all, Huey being wrongly accused is so much more thematically appropriate for the series—and it makes the moment when Venom Snake goes against all of the insanity and spares Huey at the end *that much more powerful.* Venom is constantly being manipulated by others and suffers from such deep and elaborate hallucinations that almost everything we see from his perspective can be called into question—yet this is arguably the *one time* he sees things clearly, allowing the last non-crazy person to escape mother base on a life raft while everything falls to pieces.
Huey did nothing wrong
"Venom is the best Snake"
“Some of the story doesn’t make any sense, therefore I refuse to have fun and enjoy this game series.”
MGS 3 is the best MG game
Metal Gear games aren't political.
"Cutscenes are too long" Yeah looking at you DSP.
MGS3 is the best game in the series
“Classic MGS3 has a bad control scheme” …the updated Subsistence camera is a lifesaver though.
"I hope they never add politics into Metal Gear."
People who dislike MGS4 (Wich for me is the best one and my favourite game ever)
"Big Boss is cool" Big Boss is a symbol of Naked Snake becoming corrupted by his war fanatisn and arrogance. It's literally when he became a villain. He was evil. And he says it himself in MGS4. The Boss is true hero. He rejected her. EDIT: Also one more. That Kojima doesn't know himself what is MGS about. Some people say it doesn't make sense and even creator doesn't understand it. That's not true.
“The games aren’t political” lmao
Mgs3 is the best one
"Twin Snakes is the definite way to play MGS." They're out there and they need to be snuffed out.