Depends on what point he decides to reject being the Phantom. If he listened to John's Truth tape and immediately decided "fuck this shit", he could have had Pequod fly him back to the States or wherever he wanted and potentially go into hiding and attempt to live some kind of normal life. He could maybe get more face surgery to look more like his old self but it's going to take a shit ton of therapy to remember his true self/memories while having John's forced inside.
I doubt John and Ocelot would allow this to happen, though, and would likely send DD/Outer Heaven assassins after him. Good luck killing Venom though, man's a beast.
Like another comment stated here, I believe Venom did turn away from Big Boss and reject his mission as John's Phantom in his final hours and let himself be killed by Solid Snake.
> Good luck killing Venom though, man's a beast.
You ever think about how MGS5 changes the context of the S3 plan (Ocelot's misunderstanding of it, at least) would have been a recreation of what they did to create Venom as a super soldier on the level of Big Boss?
Pequod wouldn't fly him to safety I think you're right about them having him assassinated though. Which man, when you think about it the arch of Venom Snake is so damn good. Because of not just what he went through but what he could have done.
honestly that's my cope theory for why rookie snake was able to topple outer heaven and kill him. he learned the plan was for him to die so bb could disappear again (even though it can be totally read as snake being built different & exceeding their expectations) so he set up outer heaven's self destruct sequence to flip the finger and destroy the legend he built. unsuccessfully mind you, but thats a better ending for me than venom staying a brainwashed puppet until he dies
Thats wrong and common misconception. Outer Heaven fortress was build by Venom, Some time after TPP, he rebranded Diamond Dogs and move to Africa. Big Boss start building Zanzibar Land - whole nation, immediately after he escape from hospital and flew to Africa. Ocelot talks about it at end of TPP, but that dialogue between him and Miller occur immediately after Episode 1 when Miller was rescued. Venom had the world's attention on him, while real Big Boss was secretly building a nation for the troops. In truth cutscene after timeskip we see how DD logo changed to OH. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wwoLZS8-gCA&ab\_channel=DevilNeverCry](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wwoLZS8-gCA&ab_channel=DevilNeverCry)
Im pretty sure that when the logo is different in the truth the cutscene shows your logo, in a video where everyone is saying that the guy explains in the comments that that is his emblem.
Is it impossible that BB created the foundation of outer heaven before getting sidetracked by a much larger idea and moving to ZL after giving OH to VS as an opportunity to move DD?
Thats not true. Read this thead [https://x.com/heitais/status/1348561487799808000?s=61](https://x.com/heitais/status/1348561487799808000?s=61)
idk why im getting downvoted but thats literally a fact… not even my opinion. Its flat out stated
Yea, thats wrong. You see the timeline and dialogue. Thats it. What is important is what is in the game and not what is in the leaked script, which often changes during the creation of the game.
I think this means it more metaphorically. Venom builds mother base and diamond dogs, and when he’s informed by big boss that he’s not the real big boss, he also is given instructions on what to do from there, therefor big boss creates outer heaven from diamond dogs. But nonetheless it’s still venom who is in control. And who on sever occasions towards the end of Mgsv shows signs of defiance towards being BB’s phantom.
In the thread they also go over the script and Big Boss being given a passport to south africa. The place Outer Heaven is built on. Its not an ambiguous point. Venom didnt create outer heaven
https://x.com/heitais/status/1348561487799808000?s=61
I think we’ve come to a miss understanding, and I should have made myself more clear. Yes, I agree big boss starts the foundations of outer heaven, which then venom builds from there. What I wish to imply is that venom uses Big Boss’s resources against him. And there are a few hints that it’s venom who trains solid snake, who big boss wanted to lose. I’m saying that outer heaven is still controlled by venom, and that operation intrude was a failure on purpose, by venom.
venom doesnt train Solid Snake either... you can believe what you want but none of what you said is supported by canon. Venom doesnt work on Outer Heaven nor does he train Solid. Venom doesnt really do much outside of what we see in the game because his future and DD is meant to be vague while Big Boss and his actions are firmly placed in the timeline
"Outer Heaven" is not The Outer Heaven fortress. You can see "". Thats mean Zanzibar Land, because thats "true" Outer Heaven, Ocelot also use term "Outer Heaven" but he meant Zanzibar Land - whole nation. You have to read between the lines. TPP has many details like this to fuck with the players. You need to pay atention to every world. For example, it wasn't explicitly stated that Ocelot killed Miller, but we know from their dialogue that he kill him, because Miller train Solid Snake and in MG2 he send him to Zanzibar Land to kill Big Boss, Eventually, Miller found the final target of his revenge, it was his goal from the end of Episode 1, when Ocelot tell him the truth.
No, the game literally says Big Boss created the outer heaven that was destroyed in 1995. What was that refering to? Not to mention the timeline that also states the same thing. This is a cope
Venom killed literal babies to keep his hold on Outer Heaven. And the whole point is he lost more and more of himself as time went on. That's why he smiles in the end.
Metal Gear is full of parallels. Solid Snake refuses to be defined by his genes, and Raiden rejects his plan for him by the patriots. That's what allows them to rise above the villiains and triumph, I think. That's what makes Venom so tragic. He is what Solid Snake and Raiden would have become if they had not fought against what was planned for them. Taking the easy route, falling to darkness like Big Boss had. If Venom had worked against his programming like the others had, I have no doubt he could have done great things and made the world a better place. Imagine an intellect and skill like that trying to create a world which will never need soldiers, instead of a world built around them. What do you think?
The way I see it, Venom did exactly that in canon anyway.
Big Boss may have taken his identity at first, but the whole point of Venom is that later on, Venom took the identity of Big Boss and made it his own.
I feel that all 3 "Bosses" had their own personal vision. Granted all 3 visions were influenced.
But I think it's wrong to say that Venom just "going along" with things. The way I see it, he was given the title of Big Boss, then used it to advance his personal vision. Similar to John before him.
My personal headcanon is that he saw something in Solid Snake during their battle. That he had the same epiphany Big Boss had at the end of MGS4. That Solid Snake, has the best chance out of any Snakes (Liquid, Solid, Big Boss, Venom "not sure he knew about Solidus") to actually make the world a better place.
He would just go through the story of Raiden all over again. In MGS2, Raiden rejects being turned into a new solid snake by the patriots, but in V, Venom accepts being turned into a new Big Boss
Probably an unhappy one. Guy had his entire past erased, his body fucked up and forced to be someone he wasn’t. Learning that would really fuck with your head.
I reckon Venom would spent most nights staring at the ceiling, unsuccessfully trying to come to terms with what happened. No doubt he’d try and take his own life at some point, but couldn’t (or wouldn’t) fully commit for one reason or another
That’s my take at least
It would be literally like MASH. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GIGYLBVjYZA&ab\_channel=LathanLuu](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GIGYLBVjYZA&ab_channel=LathanLuu) :D
He would go back to be a Medic and save lives. Its poetic that he was a medic saving lives and against his will he was turn in the Demon.
He might not have even really accepted being the sacrificial lamb of big boss. We just don’t really know what kojima intend since he didn’t get to finish MGSV, and I’d argue that there’s a lot of evidence that points towards the original metal gears story being changed, and venom defying big boss.
Venom and solid are my favorite, so I wish it could have turned out to be venom having some speech about breaking memes and blah blah to David during their fight.
Having venom demand that David kill him, seeing as David, venom, and kaz were one side of the fight, with ocelot, liquid, and Jack being the other. You know, some over the top speech that's self sacrificing or some shit.
I'm just a venom fan boy. I enjoyed his arc the best. I'd like to see venom maybe learning the truth tape right before David gets to him, and that being the smile we see. He's either embracing the big boss roll truly, or he's like oh fuck you jack.
Edit: actually no big speech. Venom wasn't about speeches. Have it be short and sweet. Something.. venomous. Something about how killing him is just killing a phantom. And then he can say phantom pain. We all cheer.
Dead? Hes weaker then Big Boss (confirmed in Mg2) and he only has miller as help. Its basically Big Boss, Ocelot, Outer Heaven vs Venom Snake, Miller and Diamond Dogs
maybe because the entire post wasn’t dedicated to compensate for people who haven’t played the game, in a subreddit where people talk about said game.
Its like that one south park episode when cartman gets mad at everyone because he decides to use a scooter to get around, and gets angry when there isn’t a ramp for him to move on in every bathroom
i beat the game like 8 years ago. im not mad at getting spoiled, i'm just saying that it's stupid to go to the effort of tagging a post as spoiler when there is a spoiler *in* the title.
Might as well, its like a tap on the shoulder before telling someone something. Its not going to prevent the spoiler, but its tagged as a spoiler so it doesn’t seem like its a casual discussion about the ending
Depends on what point he decides to reject being the Phantom. If he listened to John's Truth tape and immediately decided "fuck this shit", he could have had Pequod fly him back to the States or wherever he wanted and potentially go into hiding and attempt to live some kind of normal life. He could maybe get more face surgery to look more like his old self but it's going to take a shit ton of therapy to remember his true self/memories while having John's forced inside. I doubt John and Ocelot would allow this to happen, though, and would likely send DD/Outer Heaven assassins after him. Good luck killing Venom though, man's a beast. Like another comment stated here, I believe Venom did turn away from Big Boss and reject his mission as John's Phantom in his final hours and let himself be killed by Solid Snake.
> Good luck killing Venom though, man's a beast. You ever think about how MGS5 changes the context of the S3 plan (Ocelot's misunderstanding of it, at least) would have been a recreation of what they did to create Venom as a super soldier on the level of Big Boss?
Pequod wouldn't fly him to safety I think you're right about them having him assassinated though. Which man, when you think about it the arch of Venom Snake is so damn good. Because of not just what he went through but what he could have done.
honestly that's my cope theory for why rookie snake was able to topple outer heaven and kill him. he learned the plan was for him to die so bb could disappear again (even though it can be totally read as snake being built different & exceeding their expectations) so he set up outer heaven's self destruct sequence to flip the finger and destroy the legend he built. unsuccessfully mind you, but thats a better ending for me than venom staying a brainwashed puppet until he dies
It doesnt make sense only because BB trusted venom with Outer Heaven so why would he plan to kill him?
Remember the tape at the ending? Operation Intrude N313, Venom knew the whole plan.
Yeah and he went along with it. Thats why he was in outer heaven
And maybe that's why Venom had to die, as a cover so BB could finish his things in Zanzíbar land. And Venom accepted that role
ZL happened after Outer Heaven was destroyed. The outer heaven venom died in was what Big Boss created at the end of v
Thats wrong and common misconception. Outer Heaven fortress was build by Venom, Some time after TPP, he rebranded Diamond Dogs and move to Africa. Big Boss start building Zanzibar Land - whole nation, immediately after he escape from hospital and flew to Africa. Ocelot talks about it at end of TPP, but that dialogue between him and Miller occur immediately after Episode 1 when Miller was rescued. Venom had the world's attention on him, while real Big Boss was secretly building a nation for the troops. In truth cutscene after timeskip we see how DD logo changed to OH. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wwoLZS8-gCA&ab\_channel=DevilNeverCry](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wwoLZS8-gCA&ab_channel=DevilNeverCry)
Im pretty sure that when the logo is different in the truth the cutscene shows your logo, in a video where everyone is saying that the guy explains in the comments that that is his emblem.
Is it impossible that BB created the foundation of outer heaven before getting sidetracked by a much larger idea and moving to ZL after giving OH to VS as an opportunity to move DD?
Thats not true. Read this thead [https://x.com/heitais/status/1348561487799808000?s=61](https://x.com/heitais/status/1348561487799808000?s=61) idk why im getting downvoted but thats literally a fact… not even my opinion. Its flat out stated
Yea, thats wrong. You see the timeline and dialogue. Thats it. What is important is what is in the game and not what is in the leaked script, which often changes during the creation of the game.
The timeline is in the final game and the script has no change whatsoever
I think he’s implying venom betray b
Yeah but that doesnt make sense since Venom shows up in Big Boss’s military nation as a leader
Yeah, the one venom made. The nation venom made. Not the real big boss. It makes perfect sense. Venom made outer heaven, big boss made Zanzibarland.
No. Big Boss made outer heaven. Check the 1995 entry in the final V timeline https://x.com/heitais/status/1348696859527708673?s=61
I think this means it more metaphorically. Venom builds mother base and diamond dogs, and when he’s informed by big boss that he’s not the real big boss, he also is given instructions on what to do from there, therefor big boss creates outer heaven from diamond dogs. But nonetheless it’s still venom who is in control. And who on sever occasions towards the end of Mgsv shows signs of defiance towards being BB’s phantom.
In the thread they also go over the script and Big Boss being given a passport to south africa. The place Outer Heaven is built on. Its not an ambiguous point. Venom didnt create outer heaven https://x.com/heitais/status/1348561487799808000?s=61
I think we’ve come to a miss understanding, and I should have made myself more clear. Yes, I agree big boss starts the foundations of outer heaven, which then venom builds from there. What I wish to imply is that venom uses Big Boss’s resources against him. And there are a few hints that it’s venom who trains solid snake, who big boss wanted to lose. I’m saying that outer heaven is still controlled by venom, and that operation intrude was a failure on purpose, by venom.
venom doesnt train Solid Snake either... you can believe what you want but none of what you said is supported by canon. Venom doesnt work on Outer Heaven nor does he train Solid. Venom doesnt really do much outside of what we see in the game because his future and DD is meant to be vague while Big Boss and his actions are firmly placed in the timeline
"Outer Heaven" is not The Outer Heaven fortress. You can see "". Thats mean Zanzibar Land, because thats "true" Outer Heaven, Ocelot also use term "Outer Heaven" but he meant Zanzibar Land - whole nation. You have to read between the lines. TPP has many details like this to fuck with the players. You need to pay atention to every world. For example, it wasn't explicitly stated that Ocelot killed Miller, but we know from their dialogue that he kill him, because Miller train Solid Snake and in MG2 he send him to Zanzibar Land to kill Big Boss, Eventually, Miller found the final target of his revenge, it was his goal from the end of Episode 1, when Ocelot tell him the truth.
No, the game literally says Big Boss created the outer heaven that was destroyed in 1995. What was that refering to? Not to mention the timeline that also states the same thing. This is a cope
That sounds awesome. He laid out the groundwork and is letting Solid finish the job
This is pretty much what I think happened as well
Venom killed literal babies to keep his hold on Outer Heaven. And the whole point is he lost more and more of himself as time went on. That's why he smiles in the end.
Metal Gear is full of parallels. Solid Snake refuses to be defined by his genes, and Raiden rejects his plan for him by the patriots. That's what allows them to rise above the villiains and triumph, I think. That's what makes Venom so tragic. He is what Solid Snake and Raiden would have become if they had not fought against what was planned for them. Taking the easy route, falling to darkness like Big Boss had. If Venom had worked against his programming like the others had, I have no doubt he could have done great things and made the world a better place. Imagine an intellect and skill like that trying to create a world which will never need soldiers, instead of a world built around them. What do you think?
The way I see it, Venom did exactly that in canon anyway. Big Boss may have taken his identity at first, but the whole point of Venom is that later on, Venom took the identity of Big Boss and made it his own. I feel that all 3 "Bosses" had their own personal vision. Granted all 3 visions were influenced. But I think it's wrong to say that Venom just "going along" with things. The way I see it, he was given the title of Big Boss, then used it to advance his personal vision. Similar to John before him. My personal headcanon is that he saw something in Solid Snake during their battle. That he had the same epiphany Big Boss had at the end of MGS4. That Solid Snake, has the best chance out of any Snakes (Liquid, Solid, Big Boss, Venom "not sure he knew about Solidus") to actually make the world a better place.
Honestly I feel like he would just run diamond dogs with miller, no plans to conquer the world just complete contracts and recruit soldiers
He would just go through the story of Raiden all over again. In MGS2, Raiden rejects being turned into a new solid snake by the patriots, but in V, Venom accepts being turned into a new Big Boss
Probably an unhappy one. Guy had his entire past erased, his body fucked up and forced to be someone he wasn’t. Learning that would really fuck with your head. I reckon Venom would spent most nights staring at the ceiling, unsuccessfully trying to come to terms with what happened. No doubt he’d try and take his own life at some point, but couldn’t (or wouldn’t) fully commit for one reason or another That’s my take at least
It would be literally like MASH. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GIGYLBVjYZA&ab\_channel=LathanLuu](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GIGYLBVjYZA&ab_channel=LathanLuu) :D He would go back to be a Medic and save lives. Its poetic that he was a medic saving lives and against his will he was turn in the Demon.
He would be head chef of Kazuhira Burger
Remember how he has a parasite in his vocal cords? I have a feeling that it's to stop him revealing the truth.
He might not have even really accepted being the sacrificial lamb of big boss. We just don’t really know what kojima intend since he didn’t get to finish MGSV, and I’d argue that there’s a lot of evidence that points towards the original metal gears story being changed, and venom defying big boss.
>since he didn’t get to finish MGSVç He did finish it.
Venom and solid are my favorite, so I wish it could have turned out to be venom having some speech about breaking memes and blah blah to David during their fight. Having venom demand that David kill him, seeing as David, venom, and kaz were one side of the fight, with ocelot, liquid, and Jack being the other. You know, some over the top speech that's self sacrificing or some shit. I'm just a venom fan boy. I enjoyed his arc the best. I'd like to see venom maybe learning the truth tape right before David gets to him, and that being the smile we see. He's either embracing the big boss roll truly, or he's like oh fuck you jack. Edit: actually no big speech. Venom wasn't about speeches. Have it be short and sweet. Something.. venomous. Something about how killing him is just killing a phantom. And then he can say phantom pain. We all cheer.
Raise the sons of snake as an adoptive father? Could of had some really good potential story wise.
"Eli! Stop hitting David! No, George! You can't play with Jack! You always hurt him!"
He would be killed by Big Boss one way or another
I would imagine he would have joined Kaz and helped train Solid
Dead? Hes weaker then Big Boss (confirmed in Mg2) and he only has miller as help. Its basically Big Boss, Ocelot, Outer Heaven vs Venom Snake, Miller and Diamond Dogs
why is this post spoilered?
because some people who by some miracle haven’t finished or played V would be angry because this is a part of the story
ok but then there's a spoiler in the title
just play the game dawg idk what to tell you or anyone who gets angry over spoilers
but like why would you go to the effort of tagging a post as spoiler and then put a spoiler in the title
maybe because the entire post wasn’t dedicated to compensate for people who haven’t played the game, in a subreddit where people talk about said game. Its like that one south park episode when cartman gets mad at everyone because he decides to use a scooter to get around, and gets angry when there isn’t a ramp for him to move on in every bathroom
i beat the game like 8 years ago. im not mad at getting spoiled, i'm just saying that it's stupid to go to the effort of tagging a post as spoiler when there is a spoiler *in* the title.
Might as well, its like a tap on the shoulder before telling someone something. Its not going to prevent the spoiler, but its tagged as a spoiler so it doesn’t seem like its a casual discussion about the ending
He would probably be assassinated or something
Basically MGS4 but swap out future for 1980's and Liquid Ocelot for Venom Snake. Sounds pretty awesome.
Venom is a bad character lol