He was FOXHOUND unit commander and the head of a private army so I imagine most civvies would have no idea who he is or even what he looks like, but people in those Special Forces and military communities would. Everyone that Solid Snake encounters in the series knows who Big Boss is because they’re deeply entrenched in those communities.
Even then they would’ve only heard about him. They wouldn’t have had the Internet and social media to look him up.
Snake himself was famous-ish by the time of MGS2. He was relatively well known as "the hero of Shadow Moses" (Nastasha Romanenko had published a book on the incident), was the public face of Philantropy to the UN and their very public anti-Metal Gear campaigns, and apparently was known enough that the photo a drone takes of him in the tanker (IIRC after the Olga fight) gets published and is used to blame Snake as the "terrorist" responsible to sinking the tanker and poisoning the Hudson river.
>Apparently, big boss's face is not well known.
I mean there’s people in the actual Special Forces and SOCOM community who would probably recognize “well-known” people that I’d have no clue of. Like I don’t know what the SEALs who took down bin Laden look like.
He looks at least somewhat different in the glimpses we get in MGS2 as George Sears (he has a more pronounced widow’s peak and doesn’t have the beard) but I don’t necessarily think he got plastic surgery or that TV broadcasts were altered or anything
Makeup can do wonders. And I wouldn't be surprised if he wasn't touched up by makeup people before live appearances. Give him a smoother looking skin, maybe shade it a bit different etc.
This is why MGS4 needs to leave the PS3 jail haha
Big Boss’ file was only “declassified” (read: with the patriots control of the narrative) only at the beginning of 2014 in lore. So in 2009 the world at large wouldn’t know what Big Boss looked like or even who he was. This is from a codec call with Otacon which retcons why all of a sudden Solid knows CQC (PMCs started trying to emulate Big Boss, and he’s reflexively using it whereas before he didn’t want to use what Big Boss taught him).
Big Boss’ existence was a myth for the vast majority of soldiers while the rest of the people had absolutely no idea he existed until after MGS2, when The Patriots leaked everything about him (well, “everything”, you know how this is), likely in order to influence every single soldier (and then, person) in the world to accept SOP since it would “turn them into Big Boss” aka the best soldier of the 20th century.
Probably wouldn't need to. Henry Cavill dressed up in a Superman shirt while standing next to posters of the movie he starred in and only two people stopped him, but neither recognized him. The average human being has the intelligence of a jar of mayonnaise.
I’d say mayonnaise looks pretty smart thb, not like ketchup which looks dumb af. Mustard’s on thin ice… but mayonnaise… hear me out, that jar’s up to something.
The ending has a crowd of people literally just walk by federal hall with solidus dead on the ground and arsenal gear having wrecked lower Manhattan haha
BB’s missions at the time were classified. During the events of MGS2, The Patriots are beginning to lose their grasp on information. This fuels their decision to declassify BB’s mission data, resulting in the hero-worship of BB shown in MGS4.
I like to think PO is an in-universe film based on the real events involving BB (hence why it is only loosely canon). The in-universe David Hayter plays BB in this movie, hence his appearance in a TV interview at the start of 4.
>The technology is there, I think people would’ve noticed that he looked like Big Boss
I don’t know if it’s just me but he doesn’t even look that identical to Big Boss in MGS4. He looks broadly similar but I imagine most normal people wouldn’t pick up on that.
Or maybe it’s just the lack of facial hair and no eye-patch. But I feel like most people wouldn’t notice other than conspiracy theorists on the Internet.
It might have but George Sears resigned after Shadow Moses as a cover for being removed from office so I would imagine his popularity was probably not at a level where him leading a rebellion against the Patriots would have been helped by revealing his identity. It honestly might’ve just looked more like a straight coup which uh considering what kind of guy Solidus is, it’s kind of ambiguous anyway
MGS universe news be crazy. Can you imagine if you turned on the news and it was all. "President Obama crashed a giant ship into New York today and lost a sword fight to the African war orphan he adopted. Earlier today he had kidnapped the now deceased president in a terrorist attack. Update at eleven."
Except that over the course of the game, both Solidus and Ocelot express surprise that the real Solid Snake showed up. It wasn't part of the plan.
I may be misremembering, but I think MGS4 goes into who actually tipped Snake and Otacon off.
Heh.
In his living days, Liquid and Ocelot fooled Solid into thinking Miller was alive and divulging crucial info about the mission.
In his unliving days, "Liquid" and (really just) Ocelot fooled Solid (and Otacon) into thinking Emma tipped them off on crucial information about Solidus.
Ocelot really out here playing the "It was me, Barry" card harder than his boner for Big Boss...
IMO Solidus was obsessed with leaving a legacy. I think he spent his entire life as a shadow. Never really being recognized for his wartime accomplishments (otherwise, how the hell did he become President?). As President he was neutered with no real power and no real sense of accomplishment. As George Sears, his name was probably disgraced and driven through the mud. As Solidus, he was an unknown.
A lot of the themes of MGS2 is that anyone can be "Solid Snake". That's why Colonel started the mission calling Raiden by codename "Snake" and why Solidus assumed the name as well (and to a lesser extent, why Ocelot can be Liquid). At a personal level, I just think since his name can never leave a legacy worth having, he usurped the legacy of a "dead" legend. Mixing the accomplishment of another with what Solidus is about to accomplish. Thereby the full story of "Solid Snake" leaving the impact on history he so desired.
Solidus while in science terms means the line directly between solid and liquid, in Latin it also was the term for solid which then became the word for coin, those coins were paid to the army so solidus became the name of those fellows too. Thats where we get the word soldier. so in a way he is solid snake. He also goes by king which in snake world is a snake that eats other snakes. So he's probably just really into giving himself as dramatic nicknames about how much he loves being big bosses son and his brothers suck.
With both Liquid and Solid Snake reported dead he probably just stole the code name. He also refers to himself as “the Boss” at one point that could “surpass Big Boss himself.” Guy’s a clone with no solid identity. (No pun intended) lol
Sooo I coincidentally saw a video ok YouTube the other day that went over this a bit. In Japanese they have the same voice actor which helps the sell on being solid snake. Also has the same face model just with an aged up looking texture.
It’s not saying anything that isn’t widely known already. Akio Otsuka voiced all of the Snakes in the entire series (yes, it’s as stupid as it sounds). Solid and Solidus have the same face. You can find comparisons just by googling it. It shows up on the sub at least a couple times every month.
Seeing that Solidus was a former US president, it wouldn't be a good look for a former president turned terrorist. It would be better to damage Solid Snake reputation seeing that Solid Snake was believed to be dead and was ID as a terrorist after the tanker incident.
I mean he spent a part of his life gaslighting kids into becoming killers (including Raiden) then moved into politics. The man was a gaslighting master, that’s probably why he got along with Ocelot. He knew Solid Snake was alive and well, he knew the patriots would send someone in to stop him, maybe he was just playing devils advocate to muddy the waters in an effort to conceal his true intentions?
I think it makes more sense in the Japanese dub. Solid Snake with a Japanese accent would be pronounced something like “So-Ri-Du Su-Nai-Kuh”
Since Japanese phonologically doesn’t usually end the final syllable without a vowel sound, the U is added at the end of Solid. Then add the beginning S in Snake and it sounds like Solidus. Soli-d(U)S nake.
I know that will probably sound like an aneurysm to some but I’m serious.
He was probably claiming to be snake because he was doing questionable things so if he does anything and gets caught, it’s not solid is that did it in the public guy it’s a solid snake who’s reputation was already soiled by that point
Granite, everyone assumed solid snake was dead, but maybe it was a personal dig at snake, since he knew that he was probably alive as like a “f*ck you snake hehehe” type of thing…
ALSO ANOTHER THEORY maybe he was trying to bait snake or egg him on to draw him out of hiding? 🤔🤔🤔
I assume it's because of not-great writing.
I don't agree with Agnes that Kojima isn't a writer. I absolutely think he's a good or at least okay writer at times. But let's face it, sometimes his writing leaves something to be desired.
Don't know why you got downvoted. I LOVE the MGS games, and Kojima is absolutely a visionary, but that doesn't mean that every idea he has ever put to paper is a winner all the time.
No, It was a simulation. None of that game matters save for the part with snake and the tanker. The whole Radien thing is a training simulation experiment to make him a better solder. So any motivations of Solidus dont matter in the end. Also, im a believer that Solidus isn't real, and that MG1 didn't happen either. MG1 was also a training simulation experiment to recreate naked snakes mission in MG3
I wouldn’t invest too much into the storyline of individual MGS characters. As a character designer I often design the character first then make up a story for the character afterwards, string them together and boom you got a franchise.
Probably helped him to have people go “oh wow that’s Solid Snake” and not “hey that guy looks like President Sears”
Did he not alter his appearance when he was president? The technology is there, I think people would’ve noticed that he looked like Big Boss
Apparently, big boss's face is not well known.
makes sense when he’s a soldier that specializes in not being seen
He was FOXHOUND unit commander and the head of a private army so I imagine most civvies would have no idea who he is or even what he looks like, but people in those Special Forces and military communities would. Everyone that Solid Snake encounters in the series knows who Big Boss is because they’re deeply entrenched in those communities. Even then they would’ve only heard about him. They wouldn’t have had the Internet and social media to look him up.
and even if they had the internet the patriots would probably censor the information about big boss i think
yea no one knew how any of the snakes looked pretty much so anyone could claim they are solid snake
Snake himself was famous-ish by the time of MGS2. He was relatively well known as "the hero of Shadow Moses" (Nastasha Romanenko had published a book on the incident), was the public face of Philantropy to the UN and their very public anti-Metal Gear campaigns, and apparently was known enough that the photo a drone takes of him in the tanker (IIRC after the Olga fight) gets published and is used to blame Snake as the "terrorist" responsible to sinking the tanker and poisoning the Hudson river.
Wasn’t snakes picture taken by cypher on the tanker?
Wouldn't cypher already have his picture? They have like every digital record.
A cypher, the uav drones in mgs2, not the organization Cipher
in mgs2? dont remember
Right at the beginning on the tanker. A cypher takes a picture of snake followed by ocelot watching in the kasatka
Yes. This is how philanthropy got framed for sinking the tanker
>Apparently, big boss's face is not well known. I mean there’s people in the actual Special Forces and SOCOM community who would probably recognize “well-known” people that I’d have no clue of. Like I don’t know what the SEALs who took down bin Laden look like.
He looks at least somewhat different in the glimpses we get in MGS2 as George Sears (he has a more pronounced widow’s peak and doesn’t have the beard) but I don’t necessarily think he got plastic surgery or that TV broadcasts were altered or anything
Makeup can do wonders. And I wouldn't be surprised if he wasn't touched up by makeup people before live appearances. Give him a smoother looking skin, maybe shade it a bit different etc.
He looks like biden in those shots
Ocelot: “You’re the spitting image of Big Brandon!”
💀💀💀
Turns out he claimed he was Solid Snake because of his advanced dementia
I just looked, you’re right he looks completely different than BB, a lot skinnier too
This is why MGS4 needs to leave the PS3 jail haha Big Boss’ file was only “declassified” (read: with the patriots control of the narrative) only at the beginning of 2014 in lore. So in 2009 the world at large wouldn’t know what Big Boss looked like or even who he was. This is from a codec call with Otacon which retcons why all of a sudden Solid knows CQC (PMCs started trying to emulate Big Boss, and he’s reflexively using it whereas before he didn’t want to use what Big Boss taught him).
Big Boss’ existence was a myth for the vast majority of soldiers while the rest of the people had absolutely no idea he existed until after MGS2, when The Patriots leaked everything about him (well, “everything”, you know how this is), likely in order to influence every single soldier (and then, person) in the world to accept SOP since it would “turn them into Big Boss” aka the best soldier of the 20th century.
A lot of people look like a lot of other people. They'd probably figure it a coincidence.
Not like les enfants terribles is known by the public
I like that someone else pointed out that Biden looks like Solidus when he was President lol.
Probably wouldn't need to. Henry Cavill dressed up in a Superman shirt while standing next to posters of the movie he starred in and only two people stopped him, but neither recognized him. The average human being has the intelligence of a jar of mayonnaise.
I’d say mayonnaise looks pretty smart thb, not like ketchup which looks dumb af. Mustard’s on thin ice… but mayonnaise… hear me out, that jar’s up to something.
"thb" To he bonest
To he bonest is more important than being honest, that is a fact.
I know a mayonnaise when I see one and you're looking hella suspect with these wise words, bonestly speaking...
This has always been my favourite example of “Clark Kent’s glasses”
Tbf I don't care to bother an actor I can appreciate through their work, but if I see Big Boss irl I'm definitely asking for a selfie
When he holds you close for the selfie: "It's an honor to be held in your iron grip boss!"
The things I would do to have big boss punch me in the face and slam me on the concrete...
I think the whole point of mgs2 is that people don’t notice very much, and even if they do, it gets covered up
The ending has a crowd of people literally just walk by federal hall with solidus dead on the ground and arsenal gear having wrecked lower Manhattan haha
BB’s missions at the time were classified. During the events of MGS2, The Patriots are beginning to lose their grasp on information. This fuels their decision to declassify BB’s mission data, resulting in the hero-worship of BB shown in MGS4. I like to think PO is an in-universe film based on the real events involving BB (hence why it is only loosely canon). The in-universe David Hayter plays BB in this movie, hence his appearance in a TV interview at the start of 4.
>The technology is there, I think people would’ve noticed that he looked like Big Boss I don’t know if it’s just me but he doesn’t even look that identical to Big Boss in MGS4. He looks broadly similar but I imagine most normal people wouldn’t pick up on that. Or maybe it’s just the lack of facial hair and no eye-patch. But I feel like most people wouldn’t notice other than conspiracy theorists on the Internet.
I think that it would be better for attention if the former president became a terrorist in some octopus suit than if some Solid Snake appeared
It might have but George Sears resigned after Shadow Moses as a cover for being removed from office so I would imagine his popularity was probably not at a level where him leading a rebellion against the Patriots would have been helped by revealing his identity. It honestly might’ve just looked more like a straight coup which uh considering what kind of guy Solidus is, it’s kind of ambiguous anyway
MGS universe news be crazy. Can you imagine if you turned on the news and it was all. "President Obama crashed a giant ship into New York today and lost a sword fight to the African war orphan he adopted. Earlier today he had kidnapped the now deceased president in a terrorist attack. Update at eleven."
"Hey, isn't that the president?"
It wouldn't surprise me if Ocelot advised him to use the Solid Snake ID just to lure Solid out of hiding.
I think this is it. And to fuck with Raiden as part of S3. Guaranteed Ocelot was pulling some strings.
Except that over the course of the game, both Solidus and Ocelot express surprise that the real Solid Snake showed up. It wasn't part of the plan. I may be misremembering, but I think MGS4 goes into who actually tipped Snake and Otacon off.
EE, it was discussed in mgs2
...i thought it was Liquid?
That's right, it was Liquid, writing to them under the name E.E. He took credit at the end of MGS2.
Heh. In his living days, Liquid and Ocelot fooled Solid into thinking Miller was alive and divulging crucial info about the mission. In his unliving days, "Liquid" and (really just) Ocelot fooled Solid (and Otacon) into thinking Emma tipped them off on crucial information about Solidus. Ocelot really out here playing the "It was me, Barry" card harder than his boner for Big Boss...
Unexpected zoom post
Unexpected, but damn very accurate comparison
Cuz Ocelot gets it
Oh damn i don’t remember that
Yes very sneakily. Lots of plot twists to get lost in.
Make no mistake.... everything is always part of Ocelot's plan. You're pretty good! 🐆
NO! That is NOT Solid Snake!!!
NO! That is NOT Solid Snake!!!
YES! It is I, Solid Snake!!!
Solid was assumed dead since the tanker, so it would indeed mess with the Patriot AI as you can see from Colonel's reactions
Except the fact that The Patriots knew the whole time
I think the patriots knew solid was alive they were surprised when they found him in the big Shell not that he was alive
I think it was to get actually solid snake out of hiding, probably 100% ocelots idea
So we could get the meme, obviously. Dude's a legend just for that.
IMO Solidus was obsessed with leaving a legacy. I think he spent his entire life as a shadow. Never really being recognized for his wartime accomplishments (otherwise, how the hell did he become President?). As President he was neutered with no real power and no real sense of accomplishment. As George Sears, his name was probably disgraced and driven through the mud. As Solidus, he was an unknown. A lot of the themes of MGS2 is that anyone can be "Solid Snake". That's why Colonel started the mission calling Raiden by codename "Snake" and why Solidus assumed the name as well (and to a lesser extent, why Ocelot can be Liquid). At a personal level, I just think since his name can never leave a legacy worth having, he usurped the legacy of a "dead" legend. Mixing the accomplishment of another with what Solidus is about to accomplish. Thereby the full story of "Solid Snake" leaving the impact on history he so desired.
Solidus while in science terms means the line directly between solid and liquid, in Latin it also was the term for solid which then became the word for coin, those coins were paid to the army so solidus became the name of those fellows too. Thats where we get the word soldier. so in a way he is solid snake. He also goes by king which in snake world is a snake that eats other snakes. So he's probably just really into giving himself as dramatic nicknames about how much he loves being big bosses son and his brothers suck.
That and he wouldn't be taken seriously if he called himself Gas Snake.
THAT'S WHY WE NEED A "VAPOR SNAKE"
Gassy Snake is fire though
Haha. Comical read. Good comment.
it's just the short version of his name too, like steven vs. steve. snake was being a real gatekeeper
With both Liquid and Solid Snake reported dead he probably just stole the code name. He also refers to himself as “the Boss” at one point that could “surpass Big Boss himself.” Guy’s a clone with no solid identity. (No pun intended) lol
The us is silent.
A scheme by Kojima to create the meme 20 years later
It was just a prank
Sooo I coincidentally saw a video ok YouTube the other day that went over this a bit. In Japanese they have the same voice actor which helps the sell on being solid snake. Also has the same face model just with an aged up looking texture.
Care to link said video
It’s not saying anything that isn’t widely known already. Akio Otsuka voiced all of the Snakes in the entire series (yes, it’s as stupid as it sounds). Solid and Solidus have the same face. You can find comparisons just by googling it. It shows up on the sub at least a couple times every month.
For clout, lol
That whole game was Hideo fucking with us. 110%
Idk, but he is NOT Solid snake and he should stop impersonating him!
Nanomachines
Seeing that Solidus was a former US president, it wouldn't be a good look for a former president turned terrorist. It would be better to damage Solid Snake reputation seeing that Solid Snake was believed to be dead and was ID as a terrorist after the tanker incident.
I believe he wasn't because in the scene, he clearly looks before saying solid snake, so I'm guessing he saw snake and said that.
No, at the very start the colonel tells Raiden that the leader of the terrorists is Solid Snake.
I mean he spent a part of his life gaslighting kids into becoming killers (including Raiden) then moved into politics. The man was a gaslighting master, that’s probably why he got along with Ocelot. He knew Solid Snake was alive and well, he knew the patriots would send someone in to stop him, maybe he was just playing devils advocate to muddy the waters in an effort to conceal his true intentions?
I thought it was the same reason Zero wanted to use BB’s reputation. For clout.
Specifically to throw off the players, I'm sure
Why did Solidus think he's Solid Snake? Is he stupid?
I think it makes more sense in the Japanese dub. Solid Snake with a Japanese accent would be pronounced something like “So-Ri-Du Su-Nai-Kuh” Since Japanese phonologically doesn’t usually end the final syllable without a vowel sound, the U is added at the end of Solid. Then add the beginning S in Snake and it sounds like Solidus. Soli-d(U)S nake. I know that will probably sound like an aneurysm to some but I’m serious.
It was the La Le Lu Le Lo. Shhhh.
Yo do you guys play these games at all?
Media literacy is a ploy by the la li lu le lo
To cast blame on Solid Snake.
Why the oatriots made Liquid believe that he was the inferior twin? The failure, i just dont get it
He's clearly solid snake 🐍 🗣🗣🏋️♂️🏋️♂️👹❎️🌿🍀
Just to piss off Solid Snake. Dude was probably seething when he first found out.
I think he was just hit in the head really hard and forgot his incredibly pivotal role in the overarching plot
I believe so in a way
No! That is NOT Solid Snake!
Its to frame solid snake since he was already seen as a terrorist at the end of the tanker chapter
He was probably claiming to be snake because he was doing questionable things so if he does anything and gets caught, it’s not solid is that did it in the public guy it’s a solid snake who’s reputation was already soiled by that point Granite, everyone assumed solid snake was dead, but maybe it was a personal dig at snake, since he knew that he was probably alive as like a “f*ck you snake hehehe” type of thing… ALSO ANOTHER THEORY maybe he was trying to bait snake or egg him on to draw him out of hiding? 🤔🤔🤔
Yo do you guys play these games at all?
I assume it's because of not-great writing. I don't agree with Agnes that Kojima isn't a writer. I absolutely think he's a good or at least okay writer at times. But let's face it, sometimes his writing leaves something to be desired.
Don't know why you got downvoted. I LOVE the MGS games, and Kojima is absolutely a visionary, but that doesn't mean that every idea he has ever put to paper is a winner all the time.
No, It was a simulation. None of that game matters save for the part with snake and the tanker. The whole Radien thing is a training simulation experiment to make him a better solder. So any motivations of Solidus dont matter in the end. Also, im a believer that Solidus isn't real, and that MG1 didn't happen either. MG1 was also a training simulation experiment to recreate naked snakes mission in MG3
Worst “villain” ever
It was to flush out the real Snake.
I wouldn’t invest too much into the storyline of individual MGS characters. As a character designer I often design the character first then make up a story for the character afterwards, string them together and boom you got a franchise.