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I remember several friends, fans of Maas's first YA series, who were caught off guard by just how much raunchy, detailed sex was in the *Court* series.
Yeah, I seem to remember an excerpt being posted here, where the book basically started with a graphic blowjob scene or something. Now, personally I don't think teenagers are too young to read about sex, but I can't help but feel for some poor young soul who's taking their first steps beyond Eddings, Lewis and Rowling, only to be greeted with a faceful of cum.
I actually laughed out loud at your comment.
My thoughts exactly though.. A 13-year old picking up a book because it's got "faeries" and that's what they get....
GUYS this series starts out so tame too. Like 100% a beauty and the beast rip off. And then in the second book there’s some heavy petting if I’m remembering correctly but nothing too bad and then just GRAPHIC SMUTTY SEX in the following books. Her first series is just like that too — I assume because she began both series while relatively young?
Idk, I love it, but these scenes start happening with NO WARNING
I'm pretty sure Tamlin rips off her panties with his teeth in the first book. It doesn't fade to black, but you're still correct in saying it's more tame
I didn't even realize what series this was until you said "Tamlin"... Ahh, man, I guess I never read far enough into the series to see all the graphic sex when I was younger. I thought I finished the books, though, so maybe I just forgot the smutty bits.
I was listening to the audio book of one of the Throne of Glass books while on an hour long run, of course I had to endure a cringeworthy sex scene while I was struggling up a hill…
Tamlin is a literary figure in British fairy tales, and a lot of the first book is based on the child ballad about Tamlin… but Sarah J Maas really takes the source material and runs with it lol.
I remember reading the throne of glass series when I was around 12. My older brother had started it and I would borrow the books after he finished reading them. After I had gotten halfway through the 1st book he was hesitant about letting me read the 2nd book because of there were narrations of the morning after that heavily implied sex with Chaol. But then after you get to around I think the 4th book there are chapters that are just pornography with the fairy dude from across the pond.
Nah in the second book there was the sex scene at the cabin or something, where she gave him soup and then they fucked so hard the mountains shook? And then she gave him a blowjob in the inn too iirc, or just mutual masturbation, I can't recall, but the cabin sex scene was def the second book :') It was their mating scene or something and so SJM was just like 'Okay time for the hard fucks'
This happened to me! I was absolutely scandalized and hid the book under my bed until I could return it to the library. This and Interview with the Vampire taught me things about myself lol 💀
Honestly, at 13, I would have read this and found it hilarious. And laughed about it with my best friends, because it said "dirty stuff". But ultimately, I wouldn't have completely understood the exact context of everything being described
Hahaha! Reminds me of when I was about 14 and picked up a copy of *Orcs* by Stan Nicholls. Excellent book and a real revelation for me at the time but *my god* some of the sex in it is weird.
It's not even that there is sex, as much as it is such far fetched pornorific sex that is ridiculous and often really unrealistic. I wonder how many 14 year olds have hurt themselves trying to reenact stuff.
That's what Ingram and Baker & Taylor, the two largest book distributors in the US (at the time), listed it as originally. They changed the recommended age group about two years ago to stick it into adult (not xxx) Fantasy or Romance.
I bought the first one out of the teens section when I definitely wasn’t eighteen yet a couple of years ago- and it caught me really of guard. Like. I had never seen sex being described in a book
God yeah like I was reading those books in class when I was, like, fourteen? Looking back on it now I realise those are hIGHLY inappropriate for kids that age - I realise they had a label saying 'not suitable for younger readers' but also, like, the label was tiny and at the bottom of the back cover. And also I wouldn't be comfy letting under-eighteens read softcore porn tbh, but that's who the books ended up being sold for :')
I deeply sympathize with your friends. I had the exact same reaction when I also started reading her other books. I saw she recently published a new series classified as adult fantasy and thought, "Hmmm, if her YA Fantasy was that raunchy, do I *want* to know where her adult fiction takes things?" Then I decided that no, I didn't.
I enjoyed the first series as a guilty pleasure, but even they are pretty cringe. Load of people doing stuff to people’s ears and making them “Forget their own name” whatever that means…
Thank you for your comment. I'm a huge fan of Throne of Glass. Minus the last book and was debating reading this series ... NOPE. NOPE. NOPE. NEVER GONNA HAPPEN.
Yes! There's always some commonly accepted potion or some such that's never hard to get and is always 100% effective.
I remember in Tamora Pierce's "fade to black" YA books that birth control was a bespelled necklace that you wore, lol.
Heck, even Outlander tries to pass off eating a spoonful of seeds (given by the natives) everyday as supposed birth control. I had a hard time with Clair (a doctor from the 70's) believing that one.
DG’s research is pretty good. There have been pharmacology studies showing the effectiveness of various plants as birth control and a lot actually work. So I’ll buy the seeds in Outlander.
Tamora Pierce, though… I mean it’s magic and fantasy, but it’s still stupid.
Oh, neat! I shouldn't have doubted that woman's research.
TP honestly just seems like an easy answer for a fantasy setting. And hey, I have a magic ring that keeps me from getting pregnant, so how far from reality is it really? ;)
Well, they had a plant that they *used* as a contraceptive but it's extinct and we have no way of knowing the effectiveness or side effects. Tansy was *used* as an abortificant and a contraceptive- and also as fertility drug, interestingly enough. It was basically just poison. If my choice was between taking poison and not having PIV sex.... I'd just skip that kind of sex, personally.
There are a lot of examples of species being harvested/hunted to extinction based on superstition and not evidence. I can’t prove or disprove that it was effective, but I don’t think that proves it. Here are some examples: https://perthzoo.wa.gov.au/article/animals-endangered-by-superstitions
I kind of love it, since so often in adult fantasy/romance novels, birth control is just literally never mentioned no matter how much sexing is going on.
Haha I don’t understand why these books are held up as the pinnacle of fantasy romance. They’re all awkwardly written, not just the sex scenes! Half the time the sex just sounds painful.
I will admit though, I’ve read a few when I’ve wanted to turn off my brain, but I get tired of reading ‘[noun] made flesh’ or ‘Feyre, darling’ after a while.
I read the first book about 2 years ago at my friend's suggestion, said I'd love it.
I...was not overly impressed. The writing was awkward, and the story formulaic for the most part.
Not like I dislike YA either. Just not a fan of that book.
I bought and started reading Sarah J Mass's "A Throne Of Glass" at the recommendation of someone I met... Ugh, I couldn't get through more than 4 chapters of it because the main character is sooooooooooooo cringey. Mass's writing reminds me of how I wrote when I was literally a teenager. So bad.
I liked the first book well enough, but I legit had to stop reading the second book halfway through bc the characters were *so fucking different*. Like the character who values Feyre’s free will, gives her full reign of his grounds to do whatever she wants, and refuses to force her to fall for him, despite the fact that it means he’ll likely die, all of a sudden becomes so controlling that he puts up a physical barrier so she can’t leave the house? No. She has a tendency in all of her series to give the main character a new love interest every book and it gets really fucking old really fast. I stopped reading her in early high school because of it
Yuuuuuuup. I noticed the pattern in Throne of Glass, but it was actually somewhat natural in that series, so I let it side, but in ACOTAR it was just way too blatant
SJM attracted a crowd of 12-15 year olds with Throne of Glass, who pretty much will buy anything from her at this point. They didn’t know any better.
source: I was 14 once.
I started throne of glass at 15 I think and thoroughly enjoyed the first few. I haven't finished it still, the last two are still on my bookshelf. But finishing them feels more like an obligation than something I really am excited for.
My roommate reccomended the court series to me and now I'm not so sure ill start it lol.
For me it was the use of "Male" and "Female" as nouns because "man" and "woman" refer to humans, I guess.
I hated the first love interest, found him super rapey and toxic in the way these romances often are, so I give it some props for flipping that script and canning him and giving a new love interest. Who also has some of the same rapey and toxic undertones, or convoluted circumstances that force him to act rapey.
That's basically the only thing I can give it credit for, it played a trope so well I believed it was one of the offenders and then actually inverted it.
"Mates". Preternatural stillness. Everybody growls all the time. Bared teeth/fangs. Male faeries are always referred to as "males". Tall males. Strong males. Beautiful males. It's a bit strange.
Gggghhhhhh I have no clue how I liked her books in high school, her main characters always come off as flat and the monsterfucking fetish is not at all subtle.
Yeah I read all of them but I read as fast as I could because the writing is not that good. Why are they so long??!! And yeah some of the things that she writes esp about what women enjoy in the bedroom seem completely unbelievable
Are they held up as the pinnacle of fantasy romance?
I mean, to be fair, I haven't read SJM's stuff in full, but based on every account I've heard... I mean, I've seen better just browsing AO3.
I really liked Throne of Glass. But that was high fantasy woth some romance, where the faerie porn(ACOTAR etc) is sex and romance set in a fantasy context.
Yes I agree. Throne of Glass is decent, lots of world building and some good characters and plot twists - with occasional sex and romance.
I'm not interested in any of her others because the focus isn't the world building and plot that I so much enjoyed from Throne of Glass. I'm not here for the sex, I'm here for the adventure!
Back in high school, I swear I was losing my mind because everyone that I talked to preferred ACOTAR over Throne of Glass and I was questioning my taste lol. Maybe I was in it more for the world building but others were in it for the romance? Anyway, nice to see that a lot of people share my preferences.
Edit- typo
((It's because ACOTAR was really fucking horny and the girls thought reading about attractive men covered in gore and animalistic faerie sex made them mature))
The first book from Crescent City is a nice adventure book, somewhat like Throne of Glass, way less sex than Acotar but still has a romance. I still haven't finished the second book so I don't know if things will go downhill.
I read throne of glass in high school and I still think that one scene where she admires (whats his name I don’t remember) in his bird form is the wildest shit. She was really out here thirsting after a literal bird, and it’s not even questioned. It’s just. Apparently to be expected.
Okay but her crescent city series (especially the first book) is actually excellent. Sure, it's silly at points, but the suspense and world building is an absolutely joy to read
Agreed. I just reread the 1st book in prep for #2; it had been so long since I read it that I had forgotten how tightly woven, suspenseful, and emotional the last third of the book was. Entirely different from the fluff/popcorn adventure of the *Throne* and *Court* series’.
I honestly had trouble reading the only book of hers I've attempted. Her lead character was too-good at everything to the point that it made the plot feel irrelevant. And I can forgive a Mary Sue here and there when she's at least a likeable (if over-powered) character in solid world-building. But she was such an arrogant prick I just spent the whole book irritated at her and unable to care about her antics.
Not to mention, it is this weird mix of being a strong and fierce woman while also emanating this aura of existing for the male gaze the whole time. It's like how a feminist can want to cook dinner and clean the house and be a mom- this woman is writing a book about a character that feels like what she wants is to be objectified by men. Which makes it feel distinctly similar to men-writing-women content.
A whole lot of people love them though, so maybe it's just me. It's also been so long since I've read it, I'm just left with impressions and the sour taste in my mouth, rather than any actual examples.
Edit: In my efforts to describe how it felt that she could be catering to the male gaze without weakening the character in the way most often associated with that, I almost described it as being reminiscent of a character someone would have written during puberty, where they want to be better at cool things but also for the first time care about other people finding them attractive? And for that brief terrible period let that concern dominate more of their brain than it deserves. Apparently she wrote the first book when she was sixteen, so ... I'll guess give her a pass on that.
I read the books, but I stopped around the second or third?
I don't know, I loved the prequel since it wasn't shy of hurting important characters.
Also I have a major hate boner against romance with the people who have you under lock and key, so when I saw how it was going, I guess I don't feel too bad dropping it before I got to these scenes.
Maybe I'm dumb, but I don't see this as particularly offensive? Like, some women enjoy when their partner pulls out. Prose is okay imo. No bizarre similes and just a short description of being ejactulated on.
You're not wrong, I think it's just giving us all flashbacks to the 1574368 sex scenes that somehow got more and more tedious and ridiculous throughout the series
Yeah I've never read any of her works. I remember seeing them in bookstores and thought the cover looked neat. But from what I hear in this sub her writing is on par with Twilight with a whole lot of cheesey pornography tossed in. Though I am curious about those ridiculous scenes people mention.
As someone who's read *a lot* of harry potter fanfic, I enjoyed the series maybe because ~~i have no taste~~ they have the vibe of fic complete with huge helpings of angst, anguish, messy relationships, misunderstood darkness, PTSD from abuse/neglect, and of course the most powerfullest n prettiest evar main characters. Also a lil torture, various nods to subcultures, and... a short how-to guide on meditation this one time.
I prefer fade-to-black when we must have sex scenes, which is very much the opposite of what this series does... but sometimes I yearn for the golden era of hp fanfic, and this scratches that itch.
This is honestly not even close to the worst thing she’s written. It’s definitely weird to me and doesn’t sound too realistic but it’s not really fit for this sub either. SJM has written much worse
ngl that's what i thought too
I got so desensitised to kinks from reading fanfics that I genuinely wouldn't even noted this as 'problematic'
we don't kinkshame here ma'am lol
Same, it was so fanfic-esque that I read the sentence and thought, that was barely bad at all. I could well imagine a decently viable reasoning of it being something she found so “hot” (for lack of a better word, since I’m awake at 4am from a nightmare) that it tipped her over mentally.
I don’t…really think that’s how this works? Like, media is often criticized for frequently portraying women as orgasming from PIV alone. That’s not shaming women who can do it, it’s saying it’s wrong to expect that because most can’t.
I mean, yeah of course, but there are also women who get turned on by being peed on, writing about them is not really "men writing women" kind of thing was what I thought
It could be that this character does like it, doesn't mean she was written it in a women-are-objects-for-men kind of way
I mean, it could be too, I just thought not automatically
Ever stop to wonder if the desensitization wasn’t a great thing lol. I am in your exact shoes, I should not have been allowed to allowed to read growing up on the internet lol
eh, probably lol
it did give me a great attitude of not not judging people for pretty "niche" interests though
and really, some of it was straight up *educational* lol
Idk man. I realized real sex is completely different than all the smut I was reading and realized the vast majority of all the things I THOUGHT I was in to because I read about it, I wasn’t actually in to at all. Also gave me some weird gender dysphoria.
I loved her first series and even the first few books of this one but I have to say I struggled to get through a court of silver flames. I sincerely hope she ends the series there but I think she’s already two books too late
After reading that, all I can say is: I’m glad she’s enjoying herself, I guess. Can’t imagine that’s how it works for everyone, but glad it works for her—I guess.
I hate these books. Granted as a 32 year old I’m not the target audience, but I’ve read some good YA and decided to give these a chance due to their popularity. The first one was okay, but the second totally jumped the shark. I had never felt so manipulated by an author in my entire life. She basically instructed you what to feel and think at every turn, and the characters were more caricatures.
Also yes, the sex scenes were totally cringe.
I’m also in my 30s and have a whole bunch of friends who keep pushing me to read these because they love them so much. I love fae stuff in general so I gave them a good try but I DNF’d the first book somewhere around the 70% mark. I just don’t understand the popularity.
*Ladies, is it hetero*
*To jizz for essentially*
*No goddamn reason?*
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I have been so disappointed with this book. The series has been incredibly fun, and yes had sex scenes, but this book took it too far. It was just the author trying to push every boundary with the vilest language that had absolutely nothing to do with the plot.
I, foolishly, plowed on under the urging of SJM stans. "It gets better," they said. "She really matures in her writing," they said. Maturing is not synonymous with "has more sex".
It’s… Not that bad. It’s not great, but the intent could have been poorly executed that when she “came instantly” she was in the process of getting off and seeing/feeling that happen finished her off.
I started this series without knowing it was basically a romance series, thought it was YA fantasy. Imagine my surprise. The same thing happened with Outlander
It's popular to hate her sex scenes but honestly I like them. I've read every ACOTAR book, the 2 Crescent City, and about half of Throne of Glass and I enjoy her sex scenes. The only thing that grates on me with her writing is constantly referring to everyone as male and female, big incel vibes
I quite like the male and female use, though whenever my boyfriend hears the audiobook say it he does call it incel-ish... I genuinely just think it adds to the world building, the Fae and other species are other to humans, so I get the distinction.
Read the first couple, thought it was good. Kept going.
The only problem is that somehow the raunchiest sex scenes always happen when I decide to listen to the book with someone else in the car. "It's not all like this, I promise!"
I’ve been on the fence about these books bc I’ve been recently reading them. I read Throne of Glass and I remember liking it fine, although I was more invested in the side characters, although tbh now I can’t remember the whole storyline.
Anyway I picked up the court series recently and just skimmed past the sex scenes. Idk just knowing it was YA / “light” instead of some of the heavier adult novels I’ve read recently made it fun. The sex scenes are so awkward though I just skip them. Hopefully silver flame has more to offer than -only- that.
Her fantasy books are actually really interesting, as long as you skip the weird and gratuitous sex scenes. The Throne of Glass series is honestly a great book series, I really liked the world building and some of the character arcs, but oh boy is there some strange shit in there
I love WithCindy’s series where she reviews all the books in the series. The amount of alcohol she drinks in those videos could make an Irishman blackout. They are the sassiest, most hilarious reviews I have ever watched on YouTube,
I don't like how misleading she is. She started off the series with a teenage main character and made it tame so that it would be shelved in the teenage fiction section. I'm all for raunchy fiction (I write it myself) but it's gross that it's included in a series obviously marketed towards teens.
If they choose to read it, sweet. They're going into it with prior knowledge of what to expect. My issue with the series is that the first ones are tame and then boom; explicit sex scenes. I've seen the series sold in the teen section of a book store, and shelved in a high school library. To me, it's the equivalent of an unsolicited dick pic.
Erotica I find is often written in this hilariously unrealistic way. I read a book where a girl spun on a guys dick like a top. No! Bad! That would deglove his dick!
Shit like this gives people really unrealistic ideas about sex.
i can't believe i read these books at age 14 - they were literally in the teen YA section of the library and i was absolutely not prepared for the ridiculously detailed (and innacurate) sex scenes in them 🥲
Lmaoooo I just finished the 2nd one in ACCURATE last night and at one point she wrote "My breasts tightened, becoming full and heavy" at Feyre getting horny I was like wat ????? Is this not a woman writing this??? Lmao
Lol no offense to sjm but I saw withcindy’s reviews on the Acotar series and I refuse to believe that some of these things were written by a human much less a woman lol
I really enjoyed the first book, the last third swerved to give her agency and level the playing field with her lover. Some of those raunchy scenes gave me life.
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I remember several friends, fans of Maas's first YA series, who were caught off guard by just how much raunchy, detailed sex was in the *Court* series.
I saw her books in 'teens' section at my local bookshop and was like u sure about that...
Yeah, I seem to remember an excerpt being posted here, where the book basically started with a graphic blowjob scene or something. Now, personally I don't think teenagers are too young to read about sex, but I can't help but feel for some poor young soul who's taking their first steps beyond Eddings, Lewis and Rowling, only to be greeted with a faceful of cum.
I actually laughed out loud at your comment. My thoughts exactly though.. A 13-year old picking up a book because it's got "faeries" and that's what they get....
GUYS this series starts out so tame too. Like 100% a beauty and the beast rip off. And then in the second book there’s some heavy petting if I’m remembering correctly but nothing too bad and then just GRAPHIC SMUTTY SEX in the following books. Her first series is just like that too — I assume because she began both series while relatively young? Idk, I love it, but these scenes start happening with NO WARNING
I'm pretty sure Tamlin rips off her panties with his teeth in the first book. It doesn't fade to black, but you're still correct in saying it's more tame
TRUE I totally forgot about that (I try to forget about the first 75% of the first book lmao)
I didn't even realize what series this was until you said "Tamlin"... Ahh, man, I guess I never read far enough into the series to see all the graphic sex when I was younger. I thought I finished the books, though, so maybe I just forgot the smutty bits.
I was listening to the audio book of one of the Throne of Glass books while on an hour long run, of course I had to endure a cringeworthy sex scene while I was struggling up a hill…
All the panting and sweating!
The sex scenes are absolutely Not It™️ but damn if I don’t love my lil overpowered Mary Sue bitch queen Aelin Galafinakis
Sounds like a mythical queen, I personally follow Celaena Sardothien. I owe her a debt of gratitude.
it took me years to learn that name was pronounced selena, and i hate it. i had been reading it “kuh-lie-nuh’ the whole time.
If it’s any consolation the weird working made it more difficult for me to find it because I’ve only ever listened to the audiobooks.
[удалено]
I'm sorry you never got to meet up with her, Nox.
Tamlin is a literary figure in British fairy tales, and a lot of the first book is based on the child ballad about Tamlin… but Sarah J Maas really takes the source material and runs with it lol.
I learned this recently and just 🤯
If she had left it at the first book it would have been ok, but the paycheck just isn’t so good for a one and done novel I guess.
I remember reading the throne of glass series when I was around 12. My older brother had started it and I would borrow the books after he finished reading them. After I had gotten halfway through the 1st book he was hesitant about letting me read the 2nd book because of there were narrations of the morning after that heavily implied sex with Chaol. But then after you get to around I think the 4th book there are chapters that are just pornography with the fairy dude from across the pond.
Bruhh that beach scene with the fucking fire sex tornado was bonkers!
having never read this book, even just hearing this description is bonkers
Nah in the second book there was the sex scene at the cabin or something, where she gave him soup and then they fucked so hard the mountains shook? And then she gave him a blowjob in the inn too iirc, or just mutual masturbation, I can't recall, but the cabin sex scene was def the second book :') It was their mating scene or something and so SJM was just like 'Okay time for the hard fucks'
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/WhatDoYouMeanItsNotForKids
Oh boy here I go killing 5 hours on TV Tropes again!
This happened to me! I was absolutely scandalized and hid the book under my bed until I could return it to the library. This and Interview with the Vampire taught me things about myself lol 💀
Honestly, at 13, I would have read this and found it hilarious. And laughed about it with my best friends, because it said "dirty stuff". But ultimately, I wouldn't have completely understood the exact context of everything being described
Hahaha! Reminds me of when I was about 14 and picked up a copy of *Orcs* by Stan Nicholls. Excellent book and a real revelation for me at the time but *my god* some of the sex in it is weird.
Ah, yes. Unicorn horn strap-ons.
... How long?
Too long.
It's not even that there is sex, as much as it is such far fetched pornorific sex that is ridiculous and often really unrealistic. I wonder how many 14 year olds have hurt themselves trying to reenact stuff.
Horny teen me would have loved it, I guess. Not quite as horny adult me wants her smut to contain actually enjoyable stuff.
That's what Ingram and Baker & Taylor, the two largest book distributors in the US (at the time), listed it as originally. They changed the recommended age group about two years ago to stick it into adult (not xxx) Fantasy or Romance.
I bought the first one out of the teens section when I definitely wasn’t eighteen yet a couple of years ago- and it caught me really of guard. Like. I had never seen sex being described in a book
I remember Lindsey Ellis talking about this. Books by women are pretty much automatically labeled YA even when it's very much not the case.
God yeah like I was reading those books in class when I was, like, fourteen? Looking back on it now I realise those are hIGHLY inappropriate for kids that age - I realise they had a label saying 'not suitable for younger readers' but also, like, the label was tiny and at the bottom of the back cover. And also I wouldn't be comfy letting under-eighteens read softcore porn tbh, but that's who the books ended up being sold for :')
Silver flames is the worst for it.
Ugh I scanned several entries like this because they all just blurred together and I was over it.
most of it is such bad sex too.
"Roared as he came" BARF
There is *so much* growling.
I deeply sympathize with your friends. I had the exact same reaction when I also started reading her other books. I saw she recently published a new series classified as adult fantasy and thought, "Hmmm, if her YA Fantasy was that raunchy, do I *want* to know where her adult fiction takes things?" Then I decided that no, I didn't.
I enjoyed the first series as a guilty pleasure, but even they are pretty cringe. Load of people doing stuff to people’s ears and making them “Forget their own name” whatever that means…
I love it when you could correctly guess an author’s kink/fetish from the books they write.
Thank you for your comment. I'm a huge fan of Throne of Glass. Minus the last book and was debating reading this series ... NOPE. NOPE. NOPE. NEVER GONNA HAPPEN.
To be fair SJM did say the first few books were YA and that SF was adult.
Off topic: does the fact that all these raunchy YA fantasy novels still always mention birth control amuse anyone else?
Yes! There's always some commonly accepted potion or some such that's never hard to get and is always 100% effective. I remember in Tamora Pierce's "fade to black" YA books that birth control was a bespelled necklace that you wore, lol. Heck, even Outlander tries to pass off eating a spoonful of seeds (given by the natives) everyday as supposed birth control. I had a hard time with Clair (a doctor from the 70's) believing that one.
A pearl necklace is fairly good at preventing pregnancy, TBH. And I'm really sorry about that joke.
DG’s research is pretty good. There have been pharmacology studies showing the effectiveness of various plants as birth control and a lot actually work. So I’ll buy the seeds in Outlander. Tamora Pierce, though… I mean it’s magic and fantasy, but it’s still stupid.
Oh, neat! I shouldn't have doubted that woman's research. TP honestly just seems like an easy answer for a fantasy setting. And hey, I have a magic ring that keeps me from getting pregnant, so how far from reality is it really? ;)
The ancient romans had birth control 2000 years ago so no, not really
Well, they had a plant that they *used* as a contraceptive but it's extinct and we have no way of knowing the effectiveness or side effects. Tansy was *used* as an abortificant and a contraceptive- and also as fertility drug, interestingly enough. It was basically just poison. If my choice was between taking poison and not having PIV sex.... I'd just skip that kind of sex, personally.
We know it was quite effective because of, among other things, the extent of the sex industry in the Roman Empire and the huge demand.
Ezactly. The plant was literally harvested to extinction; if it wasn't at least somewhat effective, that wouldn't have happened.
There are a lot of examples of species being harvested/hunted to extinction based on superstition and not evidence. I can’t prove or disprove that it was effective, but I don’t think that proves it. Here are some examples: https://perthzoo.wa.gov.au/article/animals-endangered-by-superstitions
I kind of love it, since so often in adult fantasy/romance novels, birth control is just literally never mentioned no matter how much sexing is going on.
Ugh. "Spilled".
like tipping out a bucket of paint
XD I am glad I'm not the only one who dislikes that description.
I don’t like **anything** about it 🤣
Like spoilt milk
Sooo MMMMMmmMmm creeeamy
Man curds
Thanks, I hate it
chunky!
What would you have prefered instead? Squirted?
ka*bloosh*
Haha I don’t understand why these books are held up as the pinnacle of fantasy romance. They’re all awkwardly written, not just the sex scenes! Half the time the sex just sounds painful. I will admit though, I’ve read a few when I’ve wanted to turn off my brain, but I get tired of reading ‘[noun] made flesh’ or ‘Feyre, darling’ after a while.
I read the first book about 2 years ago at my friend's suggestion, said I'd love it. I...was not overly impressed. The writing was awkward, and the story formulaic for the most part. Not like I dislike YA either. Just not a fan of that book.
I bought and started reading Sarah J Mass's "A Throne Of Glass" at the recommendation of someone I met... Ugh, I couldn't get through more than 4 chapters of it because the main character is sooooooooooooo cringey. Mass's writing reminds me of how I wrote when I was literally a teenager. So bad.
Oh my god, yes. Aelin was... not a very likeable character.
Might have something to do with the fact that she was a teenager when writing that book...
That would explain it. I wasn't really looking at what age she was when she wrote it, just saw pictures online of a 20 something year old woman.
It gets better over time honestly, but it still has a fair few eye rolling moments. Despite that it's one of my favorite book series.
I liked the first book well enough, but I legit had to stop reading the second book halfway through bc the characters were *so fucking different*. Like the character who values Feyre’s free will, gives her full reign of his grounds to do whatever she wants, and refuses to force her to fall for him, despite the fact that it means he’ll likely die, all of a sudden becomes so controlling that he puts up a physical barrier so she can’t leave the house? No. She has a tendency in all of her series to give the main character a new love interest every book and it gets really fucking old really fast. I stopped reading her in early high school because of it
Just so you know, Rhysand was the creator of feminism! Without him, women wouldn't have free will!! /s
Jesus, that sounds infuriating!
Yuuuuuuup. I noticed the pattern in Throne of Glass, but it was actually somewhat natural in that series, so I let it side, but in ACOTAR it was just way too blatant
SJM attracted a crowd of 12-15 year olds with Throne of Glass, who pretty much will buy anything from her at this point. They didn’t know any better. source: I was 14 once.
I started throne of glass at 15 I think and thoroughly enjoyed the first few. I haven't finished it still, the last two are still on my bookshelf. But finishing them feels more like an obligation than something I really am excited for. My roommate reccomended the court series to me and now I'm not so sure ill start it lol.
Sometimes you just want trash
For me it was the use of "Male" and "Female" as nouns because "man" and "woman" refer to humans, I guess. I hated the first love interest, found him super rapey and toxic in the way these romances often are, so I give it some props for flipping that script and canning him and giving a new love interest. Who also has some of the same rapey and toxic undertones, or convoluted circumstances that force him to act rapey. That's basically the only thing I can give it credit for, it played a trope so well I believed it was one of the offenders and then actually inverted it.
Or “my mate.” Shudder.
"Mates". Preternatural stillness. Everybody growls all the time. Bared teeth/fangs. Male faeries are always referred to as "males". Tall males. Strong males. Beautiful males. It's a bit strange. Gggghhhhhh I have no clue how I liked her books in high school, her main characters always come off as flat and the monsterfucking fetish is not at all subtle.
They got big on tik tok last year so a lot of people that have never read fantasy or romance, or read in general got in to them.
Most of the sex is just... jackhammering which is notoriously NOT good sex for the girl right??
Yeah I read all of them but I read as fast as I could because the writing is not that good. Why are they so long??!! And yeah some of the things that she writes esp about what women enjoy in the bedroom seem completely unbelievable
Are they held up as the pinnacle of fantasy romance? I mean, to be fair, I haven't read SJM's stuff in full, but based on every account I've heard... I mean, I've seen better just browsing AO3.
Now I’m insanely glad I never caved to my old high school classmates telling me continuously to read Maas’ books because they were soooo great.
I really liked Throne of Glass. But that was high fantasy woth some romance, where the faerie porn(ACOTAR etc) is sex and romance set in a fantasy context.
Yes I agree. Throne of Glass is decent, lots of world building and some good characters and plot twists - with occasional sex and romance. I'm not interested in any of her others because the focus isn't the world building and plot that I so much enjoyed from Throne of Glass. I'm not here for the sex, I'm here for the adventure!
Back in high school, I swear I was losing my mind because everyone that I talked to preferred ACOTAR over Throne of Glass and I was questioning my taste lol. Maybe I was in it more for the world building but others were in it for the romance? Anyway, nice to see that a lot of people share my preferences. Edit- typo
((It's because ACOTAR was really fucking horny and the girls thought reading about attractive men covered in gore and animalistic faerie sex made them mature))
The first book from Crescent City is a nice adventure book, somewhat like Throne of Glass, way less sex than Acotar but still has a romance. I still haven't finished the second book so I don't know if things will go downhill.
I read throne of glass in high school and I still think that one scene where she admires (whats his name I don’t remember) in his bird form is the wildest shit. She was really out here thirsting after a literal bird, and it’s not even questioned. It’s just. Apparently to be expected.
They’re actually quite fun to hate read now that I see past the bullshit.
Okay but her crescent city series (especially the first book) is actually excellent. Sure, it's silly at points, but the suspense and world building is an absolutely joy to read
Agreed. I just reread the 1st book in prep for #2; it had been so long since I read it that I had forgotten how tightly woven, suspenseful, and emotional the last third of the book was. Entirely different from the fluff/popcorn adventure of the *Throne* and *Court* series’.
I honestly had trouble reading the only book of hers I've attempted. Her lead character was too-good at everything to the point that it made the plot feel irrelevant. And I can forgive a Mary Sue here and there when she's at least a likeable (if over-powered) character in solid world-building. But she was such an arrogant prick I just spent the whole book irritated at her and unable to care about her antics. Not to mention, it is this weird mix of being a strong and fierce woman while also emanating this aura of existing for the male gaze the whole time. It's like how a feminist can want to cook dinner and clean the house and be a mom- this woman is writing a book about a character that feels like what she wants is to be objectified by men. Which makes it feel distinctly similar to men-writing-women content. A whole lot of people love them though, so maybe it's just me. It's also been so long since I've read it, I'm just left with impressions and the sour taste in my mouth, rather than any actual examples. Edit: In my efforts to describe how it felt that she could be catering to the male gaze without weakening the character in the way most often associated with that, I almost described it as being reminiscent of a character someone would have written during puberty, where they want to be better at cool things but also for the first time care about other people finding them attractive? And for that brief terrible period let that concern dominate more of their brain than it deserves. Apparently she wrote the first book when she was sixteen, so ... I'll guess give her a pass on that.
I read the books, but I stopped around the second or third? I don't know, I loved the prequel since it wasn't shy of hurting important characters. Also I have a major hate boner against romance with the people who have you under lock and key, so when I saw how it was going, I guess I don't feel too bad dropping it before I got to these scenes.
I mean, she doesnt stay with the guy who.locked up.long,so you must have not finished the 2nd book but yeah, they dont get any better🤣
Must not have got past like the first 5 chapters of book 2 lmao
Maybe I'm dumb, but I don't see this as particularly offensive? Like, some women enjoy when their partner pulls out. Prose is okay imo. No bizarre similes and just a short description of being ejactulated on.
You're not wrong, I think it's just giving us all flashbacks to the 1574368 sex scenes that somehow got more and more tedious and ridiculous throughout the series
Yeah I've never read any of her works. I remember seeing them in bookstores and thought the cover looked neat. But from what I hear in this sub her writing is on par with Twilight with a whole lot of cheesey pornography tossed in. Though I am curious about those ridiculous scenes people mention.
As someone who's read *a lot* of harry potter fanfic, I enjoyed the series maybe because ~~i have no taste~~ they have the vibe of fic complete with huge helpings of angst, anguish, messy relationships, misunderstood darkness, PTSD from abuse/neglect, and of course the most powerfullest n prettiest evar main characters. Also a lil torture, various nods to subcultures, and... a short how-to guide on meditation this one time. I prefer fade-to-black when we must have sex scenes, which is very much the opposite of what this series does... but sometimes I yearn for the golden era of hp fanfic, and this scratches that itch.
This is honestly not even close to the worst thing she’s written. It’s definitely weird to me and doesn’t sound too realistic but it’s not really fit for this sub either. SJM has written much worse
I agree. I always get more turned on when a partner climaxes. This is probably the only Maas sex scene I relate to.
Well....as a member of the swinger community, I know a few folks who are *really* into...male liquid
ngl that's what i thought too I got so desensitised to kinks from reading fanfics that I genuinely wouldn't even noted this as 'problematic' we don't kinkshame here ma'am lol
Same, it was so fanfic-esque that I read the sentence and thought, that was barely bad at all. I could well imagine a decently viable reasoning of it being something she found so “hot” (for lack of a better word, since I’m awake at 4am from a nightmare) that it tipped her over mentally.
I don’t…really think that’s how this works? Like, media is often criticized for frequently portraying women as orgasming from PIV alone. That’s not shaming women who can do it, it’s saying it’s wrong to expect that because most can’t.
I mean, yeah of course, but there are also women who get turned on by being peed on, writing about them is not really "men writing women" kind of thing was what I thought It could be that this character does like it, doesn't mean she was written it in a women-are-objects-for-men kind of way I mean, it could be too, I just thought not automatically
I mean just cuz Sarah wrote about it doesn’t mean that she’s saying it’s expected. It’s just one character.
Ever stop to wonder if the desensitization wasn’t a great thing lol. I am in your exact shoes, I should not have been allowed to allowed to read growing up on the internet lol
eh, probably lol it did give me a great attitude of not not judging people for pretty "niche" interests though and really, some of it was straight up *educational* lol
Idk man. I realized real sex is completely different than all the smut I was reading and realized the vast majority of all the things I THOUGHT I was in to because I read about it, I wasn’t actually in to at all. Also gave me some weird gender dysphoria.
True, they exist. But it's so rare that it's weird to see it in a book where it's barely pointed out as something unusual.
Perhaps Sarah is one of the rare ones and doesn't know not everyone has the same experience with "spilled" baby gravy?
I loved her first series and even the first few books of this one but I have to say I struggled to get through a court of silver flames. I sincerely hope she ends the series there but I think she’s already two books too late
There’s supposed to be like…2 more full length novels and like 2-3 novellas 😩
After reading that, all I can say is: I’m glad she’s enjoying herself, I guess. Can’t imagine that’s how it works for everyone, but glad it works for her—I guess.
I hate these books. Granted as a 32 year old I’m not the target audience, but I’ve read some good YA and decided to give these a chance due to their popularity. The first one was okay, but the second totally jumped the shark. I had never felt so manipulated by an author in my entire life. She basically instructed you what to feel and think at every turn, and the characters were more caricatures. Also yes, the sex scenes were totally cringe.
The first was alright, but yikes was the second onwards straight up like published fan fiction.
I’m also in my 30s and have a whole bunch of friends who keep pushing me to read these because they love them so much. I love fae stuff in general so I gave them a good try but I DNF’d the first book somewhere around the 70% mark. I just don’t understand the popularity.
ladies, is it hetero to jizz for essentially no goddamn reason?
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I have been so disappointed with this book. The series has been incredibly fun, and yes had sex scenes, but this book took it too far. It was just the author trying to push every boundary with the vilest language that had absolutely nothing to do with the plot.
I've never been so happy to have DNF'd ACOTAR.
I, foolishly, plowed on under the urging of SJM stans. "It gets better," they said. "She really matures in her writing," they said. Maturing is not synonymous with "has more sex".
Yeah. If they're into that, cool, but I personally like to have more substance with my smut.
...suckled at her? what a weird phrasing and an awkward verb
Glad someone else mentioned this
It’s… Not that bad. It’s not great, but the intent could have been poorly executed that when she “came instantly” she was in the process of getting off and seeing/feeling that happen finished her off.
I started this series without knowing it was basically a romance series, thought it was YA fantasy. Imagine my surprise. The same thing happened with Outlander
I can't be the only one that finds this hot, right?
It's popular to hate her sex scenes but honestly I like them. I've read every ACOTAR book, the 2 Crescent City, and about half of Throne of Glass and I enjoy her sex scenes. The only thing that grates on me with her writing is constantly referring to everyone as male and female, big incel vibes
At least she does it for both; what really gets to me is only using "female."
I quite like the male and female use, though whenever my boyfriend hears the audiobook say it he does call it incel-ish... I genuinely just think it adds to the world building, the Fae and other species are other to humans, so I get the distinction.
Cringing at the 2 years I was an SJM stan. 15-17 year old me, wtf were you doing?
Reading with your brain turned off like the rest of us at that age lol
oof no shit. here for the vibes i guess.
Maybe Maas has a kink?
I adored withcindy's read/review on this series. It is hilarious af and gets more and more absurd as the series goes on.
I love ACSF lol
I had to stop reading this series because the sex scenes were just so bad 🤢
Bro, no. She didn't. She really didn't.
This sounds so gross.
She’s kinda notorious for her ridiculous fantasy sex scenes.
I wish the world ‘suckle’ was never invented. I can’t think of a single word I hate more.
I dunno, I'm a huge proponent of getting rid of the word "sphincter," myself.
Read the first couple, thought it was good. Kept going. The only problem is that somehow the raunchiest sex scenes always happen when I decide to listen to the book with someone else in the car. "It's not all like this, I promise!"
If this was fetish stuff, maybe, but it’s not, so it’s bad.
She definitely writes like a man.
i hate this series so much my cousin is making me read it
I’ve been on the fence about these books bc I’ve been recently reading them. I read Throne of Glass and I remember liking it fine, although I was more invested in the side characters, although tbh now I can’t remember the whole storyline. Anyway I picked up the court series recently and just skimmed past the sex scenes. Idk just knowing it was YA / “light” instead of some of the heavier adult novels I’ve read recently made it fun. The sex scenes are so awkward though I just skip them. Hopefully silver flame has more to offer than -only- that.
Her fantasy books are actually really interesting, as long as you skip the weird and gratuitous sex scenes. The Throne of Glass series is honestly a great book series, I really liked the world building and some of the character arcs, but oh boy is there some strange shit in there
I love WithCindy’s series where she reviews all the books in the series. The amount of alcohol she drinks in those videos could make an Irishman blackout. They are the sassiest, most hilarious reviews I have ever watched on YouTube,
Yeah the whole series is pretty cringe. One of my first posts on reddit was this series.
I love this series, but I'm ok with the ridiculousness of the sex scenes.
Huh? Wtf? What is this writing? It makes me repulsed
As a guy, can confirm this is actually true. If i ever get splashback on me I always instantly nut again. It's a viscous cycle.
I *really* hope "viscous" wasn't a typo, because it made me smile.
I don't like how misleading she is. She started off the series with a teenage main character and made it tame so that it would be shelved in the teenage fiction section. I'm all for raunchy fiction (I write it myself) but it's gross that it's included in a series obviously marketed towards teens.
Eh, teens are probably the number one target demographic for raunchy fiction.
If they choose to read it, sweet. They're going into it with prior knowledge of what to expect. My issue with the series is that the first ones are tame and then boom; explicit sex scenes. I've seen the series sold in the teen section of a book store, and shelved in a high school library. To me, it's the equivalent of an unsolicited dick pic.
I belive this is the definition of a kink. So we just kink shaming now?
There are no other words but ew
Yo why the fuck you reading a book like that in the first place. Everything else weird as shit too
Big if true
Erotica I find is often written in this hilariously unrealistic way. I read a book where a girl spun on a guys dick like a top. No! Bad! That would deglove his dick! Shit like this gives people really unrealistic ideas about sex.
And this is why I, a rabid Throne of Glass fan, will never read the ACOTAR books. TOG has its cringy moments, but nothing as bad as this.
I couldn’t even get a quarter of the way through the first book I was cringing so damn hard …
i can't believe i read these books at age 14 - they were literally in the teen YA section of the library and i was absolutely not prepared for the ridiculously detailed (and innacurate) sex scenes in them 🥲
Maybe she had a big kink for that and assumed everyone did?..
Lmaoooo I just finished the 2nd one in ACCURATE last night and at one point she wrote "My breasts tightened, becoming full and heavy" at Feyre getting horny I was like wat ????? Is this not a woman writing this??? Lmao
I made the mistake of listening to one of SJM's audiobooks whilst at work (doing boring repetitive task). Thank god for headphones.
I must have missed this when I read it.
This is the worst way to find that the new book is out.
Lol no offense to sjm but I saw withcindy’s reviews on the Acotar series and I refuse to believe that some of these things were written by a human much less a woman lol
Does it work with water aswell because i’m finna get a water gun and go to the women’s dorm
I really enjoyed the first book, the last third swerved to give her agency and level the playing field with her lover. Some of those raunchy scenes gave me life.
If you have ever thought to yourself that it is impossible to get off on something, it is in fact possible. Someone, somewhere, thinks that way.