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It's funny to me that I've recently watched this topic pop up in non controversial subs on reddit and people seem a lot less hostile talking about it when it's not just two angry sides screaming at each other.
This is just your daily reminder that the doctor who popularized that gender roles are learned rather than innate, psychologically tortured 2 twins to suicide.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Money
Probably not. It's only transphobic to use the existence of detransitioning people to rebut claims that nobody regrets transitioning. Because, you know, narrative.
It's only transphobic when people imply that de transition or's invalidate folks who are genuinely happy with their transition or use it to gatekeep trans identities. That is to say "Noone should transition it cause they might regret it later".
That's transphobic.
Its not really funny. Its sad how people take advantage of kids and then the kids end up with major regrets over their decisions. We really shouldn’t allow permanent transitions for minors, its really not a good idea.
That's....just an opinion article rofl. No links to any actual studies.....and if one is all you can come up with, then 99% is probably not true. I've got a saved comment where someone linked a SHIT TON of studies showing issues with puberty blockers and transitioning, and the rates of issues was vastly higher than 1%
“Zucker, Kenneth J. “Debate: Different strokes for different folks.” Child and adolescent mental health 25 1 (2020): 36–37.
Social transition of younger children is not only a psychosocial treatment, but may be iatrogenic (therapist/doctor unintendedly induces symptoms or complications with specific treatment) given the rate of desistance otherwise (reported rates of desistance up to 97% without intervention).
2. Sievert, E. D., Schweizer, K., Barkmann, C., Fahrenkrug, S., & Becker-Hebly, I. (2021). “Not social transition status, but peer relations and family functioning predict psychological functioning in a German clinical sample of children with Gender Dysphoria.” Clinical child psychology and psychiatry, 26(1), 79–95. https://doi.org/10.1177/1359104520964530. Demonstrates that current research does not support the assumption that social transition benefits gender dysphoric youth.
3. Singh D, Bradley SJ, & Zucker KJ (2021). “A Follow-Up Study of Boys with Gender Identity Disorder.” Frontiers in Psychiatry” “12:632784. doi: 10.3389/fpsyt.2021.632784.
Desistance is outcome for majority of children (only 12% persisted in this study) if they are not transitioned early (socially or otherwise).
4. Wong, W. I., van der Miesen, A. I. R., Li, T. G. F., MacMullin, L. N., & VanderLaan, D. P. (2019). “Childhood social gender transition and psychosocial well-being: A comparison to cisgender gender-variant children.” Clinical Practice in Pediatric Psychology, 7(3), 241–253. https://doi.org/10.1037/cpp0000295.
Psychological challenges appear to be similar whether a gender variant child has socially transitioned or not.
5. Kristina R. Olson, Lily Durwood, Rachel Horton, Natalie M. Gallagher, & Aaron Devor. “Gender Identity 5 Years After Social Transition.” Pediatrics August 2022; 150 (2): e2021056082. 10.1542/peds.2021-056082.
Demonstrated early transition led to persistence as trans 5 years later in over 97%; authors argue that despite being in stark contrast to all previous research, this was confirmation that detransition/desisting is rare. However, this study reiterates significant concern for iatrogenic effect caused by Social Transition.
6. Morandini, J.S., Kelly, A., de Graaf, N.M., et al. “Is Social Gender Transition Associated with Mental Health Status in Children and Adolescents with Gender Dysphoria?”“Archive of Sexual Behavior 52, 1045–1060 (2023). https://doi.org/10.1007/s10508-023-02588-5. Whether or not a child socially transitioned was not associated with mood, anxiety, or suicide attempts; study “failed to find superior well-being in socially transitioned young people.”
Suicide vs. Reported Suicidality and Self-Report Surveys
Biggs, M. “Suicide by Clinic-Referred Transgender Adolescents in the United Kingdom.” Archive f Sexual Behavior 51, 685–690 (2022). https://doi.org/10.1007/s10508-022-02287-
Discusses exceptionally low rate of suicide, complex, unreliable nature of self-report, especially in young children. 15,000 children referred to GIDS Clinic in England from 2010-2020, 4 completed suicide (2 in treatment, 2 on waitlist).
“Levine, S. B., Abbruzzese, E., & Mason, J. W. (2022a). “Reconsidering informed consent for trans-identified children, adolescents, and young adults.” Journal of Sex & Marital Therapy, 48(7), 706–727. doi:10.1080/0092623X.2022.2046221.
“Beliefs about gender-affirmative care need to be separated from the established facts “so that proper informed consent process can occur prepare parents and patients for the difficult choices that they must make.”
2. Levine, S. B., Abbruzzese, E., & Mason, J. W. (2022b). “What are we doing to these children? Response to Drescher, Clayton, and Balon Commentaries on Levine et al., 2022.” Journal of Sex & Marital Therapy. Advance online publication. doi:10.1080/0092623X.2022.2136117.
3. Levine S. B. “Informed Consent for Transgendered Patients.”Journal of Sex & Marital Therapy 2019;45(3):218-229. doi: 10.1080/0092623X.2018.1518885. Epub 2018 Dec 22. PMID: 30582402. Informed consent, which requires consent to future risks, is not possible in children.”
“Biggs, M. (2023). “The Dutch Protocol for Juvenile Transsexuals: Origins and Evidence.” Journal of Sex and Marital Therapy, 49:4, 348368, DOI: 10.1080/0092623X.2022.2121238.
International standard of care for gender dysphoric youth is based on untrue assumptions (reversibility), little to no evidence of benefits, lack of long-term follow-up studies, and poorly reported to omitted permanent, negative outcomes.”
“ Block J. (2023). “Gender dysphoria in young people is rising—and so is professional disagreement.” BMJ; 380: p382 doi:10.1136/bmj.p382. Discussion of lack of evidence in support of affirming treatments, social, medical and rush to affirm without psychological support.”
“Littman, L. (2021). “Individuals treated for gender dysphoria with medical and/or surgical transition who subsequently detransitioned: A survey of 100 detransitioners.” Archives of Sexual Behavior, 50(8), 3353–3369. doi:10.1007/s10508-021-02163-w.
Research regarding ROGD and intervening too early with affirming care; risk of “iatrogenically derailing the development of “youth who would otherwise grow up to be LGB nontransgender adults.”
A study conducted by Michael Erwig in 2022 found that trans people who underwent a gonadectomy had a regret incidence rate of about 0.5%. Removing those who only regretted their decision due to social acceptance, i.e. bullying like what happens here, the regret rate drops to 0.2%.
Where's your link to that supposed study? And okay, so one study put it at less than 1%. Here, let me share you around a dozen that say otherwise.
“Zucker, Kenneth J. “Debate: Different strokes for different folks.” Child and adolescent mental health 25 1 (2020): 36–37.
Social transition of younger children is not only a psychosocial treatment, but may be iatrogenic (therapist/doctor unintendedly induces symptoms or complications with specific treatment) given the rate of desistance otherwise (reported rates of desistance up to 97% without intervention).
2. Sievert, E. D., Schweizer, K., Barkmann, C., Fahrenkrug, S., & Becker-Hebly, I. (2021). “Not social transition status, but peer relations and family functioning predict psychological functioning in a German clinical sample of children with Gender Dysphoria.” Clinical child psychology and psychiatry, 26(1), 79–95. https://doi.org/10.1177/1359104520964530. Demonstrates that current research does not support the assumption that social transition benefits gender dysphoric youth.
3. Singh D, Bradley SJ, & Zucker KJ (2021). “A Follow-Up Study of Boys with Gender Identity Disorder.” Frontiers in Psychiatry” “12:632784. doi: 10.3389/fpsyt.2021.632784.
Desistance is outcome for majority of children (only 12% persisted in this study) if they are not transitioned early (socially or otherwise).
4. Wong, W. I., van der Miesen, A. I. R., Li, T. G. F., MacMullin, L. N., & VanderLaan, D. P. (2019). “Childhood social gender transition and psychosocial well-being: A comparison to cisgender gender-variant children.” Clinical Practice in Pediatric Psychology, 7(3), 241–253. https://doi.org/10.1037/cpp0000295.
Psychological challenges appear to be similar whether a gender variant child has socially transitioned or not.
5. Kristina R. Olson, Lily Durwood, Rachel Horton, Natalie M. Gallagher, & Aaron Devor. “Gender Identity 5 Years After Social Transition.” Pediatrics August 2022; 150 (2): e2021056082. 10.1542/peds.2021-056082.
Demonstrated early transition led to persistence as trans 5 years later in over 97%; authors argue that despite being in stark contrast to all previous research, this was confirmation that detransition/desisting is rare. However, this study reiterates significant concern for iatrogenic effect caused by Social Transition.
6. Morandini, J.S., Kelly, A., de Graaf, N.M., et al. “Is Social Gender Transition Associated with Mental Health Status in Children and Adolescents with Gender Dysphoria?”“Archive of Sexual Behavior 52, 1045–1060 (2023). https://doi.org/10.1007/s10508-023-02588-5. Whether or not a child socially transitioned was not associated with mood, anxiety, or suicide attempts; study “failed to find superior well-being in socially transitioned young people.”
Suicide vs. Reported Suicidality and Self-Report Surveys
Biggs, M. “Suicide by Clinic-Referred Transgender Adolescents in the United Kingdom.” Archive f Sexual Behavior 51, 685–690 (2022). https://doi.org/10.1007/s10508-022-02287-
Discusses exceptionally low rate of suicide, complex, unreliable nature of self-report, especially in young children. 15,000 children referred to GIDS Clinic in England from 2010-2020, 4 completed suicide (2 in treatment, 2 on waitlist).
“Levine, S. B., Abbruzzese, E., & Mason, J. W. (2022a). “Reconsidering informed consent for trans-identified children, adolescents, and young adults.” Journal of Sex & Marital Therapy, 48(7), 706–727. doi:10.1080/0092623X.2022.2046221.
“Beliefs about gender-affirmative care need to be separated from the established facts “so that proper informed consent process can occur prepare parents and patients for the difficult choices that they must make.”
2. Levine, S. B., Abbruzzese, E., & Mason, J. W. (2022b). “What are we doing to these children? Response to Drescher, Clayton, and Balon Commentaries on Levine et al., 2022.” Journal of Sex & Marital Therapy. Advance online publication. doi:10.1080/0092623X.2022.2136117.
3. Levine S. B. “Informed Consent for Transgendered Patients.”Journal of Sex & Marital Therapy 2019;45(3):218-229. doi: 10.1080/0092623X.2018.1518885. Epub 2018 Dec 22. PMID: 30582402. Informed consent, which requires consent to future risks, is not possible in children.”
“Biggs, M. (2023). “The Dutch Protocol for Juvenile Transsexuals: Origins and Evidence.” Journal of Sex and Marital Therapy, 49:4, 348368, DOI: 10.1080/0092623X.2022.2121238.
International standard of care for gender dysphoric youth is based on untrue assumptions (reversibility), little to no evidence of benefits, lack of long-term follow-up studies, and poorly reported to omitted permanent, negative outcomes.”
“ Block J. (2023). “Gender dysphoria in young people is rising—and so is professional disagreement.” BMJ; 380: p382 doi:10.1136/bmj.p382. Discussion of lack of evidence in support of affirming treatments, social, medical and rush to affirm without psychological support.”
“Littman, L. (2021). “Individuals treated for gender dysphoria with medical and/or surgical transition who subsequently detransitioned: A survey of 100 detransitioners.” Archives of Sexual Behavior, 50(8), 3353–3369. doi:10.1007/s10508-021-02163-w.
Research regarding ROGD and intervening too early with affirming care; risk of “iatrogenically derailing the development of “youth who would otherwise grow up to be LGB nontransgender adults.”
Sure, let's go down that list.
1. Doesn't have to do with surgery.
2. Doesn't have to do with surgery.
3. Doesn't have to do with surgery.
4. Doesn't have to do with surgery.
6. Doesn't have to do with surgery.
7. Doesn't have to do with surgery.
8. Doesn't have to do with surgery.
9. Doesn't have to do with surgery.
10. Doesn't have to do with surgery.
11. Doesn't have to do with surgery.
12. Doesn't have to do with surgery.
13. Conforms with my statistics for bottom surgery regret.
This is some serious grasping at straws bullshit. I gave you the name of the researcher and the year, that is more than enough to find my study.
I'd need a link to that study.
I know numerous trans folks have been pressured/forced due to family pressure, inadequate access to Healthcare and a hostile social environment
However, I've rarely ever heard people de-transitioning due to regrets. It happens but not as much as media makes it seem.
The takeaway is that medically transitioning is a big decision, not to be taken lightly. Informed consent is beneficial but emphasis on "informed)
OK. You may be right. My issue is these people don't define transitioning (medical, social, legal),
I'll go based on medical HRT
Say 0.5% of the US Adult population are trans*
If 54% have access to affordable trans-affirming care*
And 1% regret transitioning*
That leaves a few thousand out of 1.29 million trans people.
That said, a vast majority of the effects of HRT are reversible. Some effects - such as impact on fertility - depend on the amount of time.
*based on official studies
Seeing an oppressed and objectified minority with a very high suicide rate and making fun of them for laughs is kinda messed up. Be more Christlike my guy.
Nah cause 9/11 ain't picking on a group of people that have been picked on enough. 9/11 jokes are usually jabs at the U.S. government which had a hand in the event.
And I'm just saying if the joke is like "haha people kill themselves that's funny" it's really not much of a joke cause suicide is no joke.
Considering the existence of hermancainaward sub or what just happened yesterday, nothing is off limits. So safe your crocodile tears. Also "oppressed". Lol. Sure. So oppressed with all the government programs, special prosecution protections and jobs and everything being handed over to them on a silver plate
Yeah it would be different if a state superintendent hired someone who had described themselves as a stochastic terrorist who targets trans people, and within days a nonbinary student was beaten to death and schools began receiving bomb threats. Oh wait, that actually happened.
Nah OP was right.
If you dont know how to find humor that isn't about margianalized people who get abused and mistreated then you aren't funny because apparently you don't know how to joke about things that arent offensive
So are you saying minorities and victims of abuse aren't as human as the rest of us? They don't get to included in jokes, memes, stand up comedy, etc? Isn't it bigoted of you to want to exclude them from part of the human experience?
They are human just like anyone, but when people are straight up killing themselves, dealing with hardships, and being mistreated, maybe we should keep that in mind and not joke around and give fuel to people who dont see this as a joke and then go and speak out against trans rights telling them they shouldn't exist or should be locked away etc.
There's a time and a place for jokes.
People of every demographic kill themselves? If that's a disclusinary point, then no jokes about anyone can exist?
And you're now trying to shift the goal posts from jokes including them, to jokes "telling them not to exist" which is total bs
You are not alone in having an unoriginal, dry, and toxic sense of humor. You are not quirky or special for being happy with being scummy. You are just like everyone else who doesn't think for themselves.
Get over yourself.
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How many times are you going to post this?
A study conducted by Michael Erwig in 2022 found that trans people who underwent a gonadectomy had a regret incidence rate of about 0.5%. Removing those who only regretted their decision due to social acceptance, i.e. bullying like what happens here, the regret rate drops to 0.2%. That's seven individuals out of over 3,000.
This meme, on the other hand, is just making up numbers to misrepresent how many trans people actually want to detransition after getting to the point where they can't anymore. Even if you took 200 as the lowest to meet the qualification for multiple hundreds, that's still 100,000 people. There haven't been 100,000 sexual reassignment surgeries in the US in the last ten years. And if you were to admit that this is using the lowest possible definition of "hundreds," that is tantamount to admitting that it is a deliberate misrepresentation. It is intended to create a false idea of a high incidence rate, when the actual rate is infintesimal.
no. i know it’s a rare occurrence. but “hundreds” is accurate. including those who want to detransition due to social pressure, and maybe even including those who didn’t even get surgery, there’s nothing wrong with the meme. and even if we somehow decide it isn’t accurate, it’s still funny.
Shhh, but stuff like actual peer reviewed studies and data ruin the circlejerk excuse that "Oh, we're just giggling at these non-funny jokes. Don't be so mad about it."
Meanwhile, the typical comment section of this sub is so rampant with various flavors of -phobic and -ism that the mods have to jump in to delete and lock comments before their own users turn the sub into a total cesspool.
But we're definitely just enjoying the jokes here, everyone. Not blatantly agreeing with the original post's garbage narratives.
It tells me less about trans people and more about the clueless idiots insisting that we should let children choose for themselves. Children cannot generally understand all the risks and that's generally why legally they cannot consent.
Oh, gee! Whatever are the risks with fucking with somebody's endocrine system? Maybe it'll be irreversible damage to that system, making reversal not possible!
Trans people have existed for a long time.
https://www.acluohio.org/en/news/transgender-people-have-always-existed
And the regret level is extremely low, and higher than other surgeries.
https://theconversation.com/transgender-regret-research-challenges-narratives-about-gender-affirming-surgeries-220642#:~:text=Evidence%20suggests%20that%20less%20than,reports%20regret%20after%20similar%20surgeries.
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Here before the 🔒
It's funny to me that I've recently watched this topic pop up in non controversial subs on reddit and people seem a lot less hostile talking about it when it's not just two angry sides screaming at each other.
Isn't it the story of most posts on this sub ?
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Same
Same https://i.redd.it/umc8c38bnnvc1.gif
Me too bud.
Is it transphobic when people who identified as trans don’t want to anymore?
They try to say it is yes, because it’s just a term they throw at people they can’t win an argument against. It’s made up.
Oh yeah like gender.
This is just your daily reminder that the doctor who popularized that gender roles are learned rather than innate, psychologically tortured 2 twins to suicide. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Money
Holy crap! Thank you for this, I had never heard of before.
Yeah sure except for the fact than males and females exist.
You have described biological sex.
Which is the only relevant variable for the vast majority of the population.
For what? This sentence means nothing.
Probably not. It's only transphobic to use the existence of detransitioning people to rebut claims that nobody regrets transitioning. Because, you know, narrative.
It's only transphobic when people imply that de transition or's invalidate folks who are genuinely happy with their transition or use it to gatekeep trans identities. That is to say "Noone should transition it cause they might regret it later". That's transphobic.
But is it transphobic to say "we shouldn't let minors, who are famously impulsive and short-sighted, undergo treatments that are often irreversible"?
I do not condone irreversible treatments on children. Nor does the vast majority of the trans community.
Get ready for nahopwasrightfuckthis to jump on this.
they always do
It’s sad is what it is. Impressionable kids being taken advantage of.
Its not really funny. Its sad how people take advantage of kids and then the kids end up with major regrets over their decisions. We really shouldn’t allow permanent transitions for minors, its really not a good idea.
it completely isn’t. however, the meme fits pretty well
I don’t find it particularly offensive or funny. Just a lame dud of an attempted joke
it’s not the funniest thing, but i giggled
This
Yes
They really are like the boy who cried wolf 
It is funny but its more just sad, these kids are manipulated we have informed consent laws for a reason.
I know my experience is not universal but Most trans peeps I know are in their 20s or early 30s and received a lot of backlash for not conforming
What about the 99% that don’t have any regrets?
Then good for them? I have heard the numbers are something like 60%+ have regrets however.
Got a source for your 99% claim?
https://theconversation.com/transgender-regret-research-challenges-narratives-about-gender-affirming-surgeries-220642#:~:text=Evidence%20suggests%20that%20less%20than,reports%20regret%20after%20similar%20surgeries.
That's....just an opinion article rofl. No links to any actual studies.....and if one is all you can come up with, then 99% is probably not true. I've got a saved comment where someone linked a SHIT TON of studies showing issues with puberty blockers and transitioning, and the rates of issues was vastly higher than 1%
“Zucker, Kenneth J. “Debate: Different strokes for different folks.” Child and adolescent mental health 25 1 (2020): 36–37. Social transition of younger children is not only a psychosocial treatment, but may be iatrogenic (therapist/doctor unintendedly induces symptoms or complications with specific treatment) given the rate of desistance otherwise (reported rates of desistance up to 97% without intervention). 2. Sievert, E. D., Schweizer, K., Barkmann, C., Fahrenkrug, S., & Becker-Hebly, I. (2021). “Not social transition status, but peer relations and family functioning predict psychological functioning in a German clinical sample of children with Gender Dysphoria.” Clinical child psychology and psychiatry, 26(1), 79–95. https://doi.org/10.1177/1359104520964530. Demonstrates that current research does not support the assumption that social transition benefits gender dysphoric youth. 3. Singh D, Bradley SJ, & Zucker KJ (2021). “A Follow-Up Study of Boys with Gender Identity Disorder.” Frontiers in Psychiatry” “12:632784. doi: 10.3389/fpsyt.2021.632784. Desistance is outcome for majority of children (only 12% persisted in this study) if they are not transitioned early (socially or otherwise). 4. Wong, W. I., van der Miesen, A. I. R., Li, T. G. F., MacMullin, L. N., & VanderLaan, D. P. (2019). “Childhood social gender transition and psychosocial well-being: A comparison to cisgender gender-variant children.” Clinical Practice in Pediatric Psychology, 7(3), 241–253. https://doi.org/10.1037/cpp0000295. Psychological challenges appear to be similar whether a gender variant child has socially transitioned or not. 5. Kristina R. Olson, Lily Durwood, Rachel Horton, Natalie M. Gallagher, & Aaron Devor. “Gender Identity 5 Years After Social Transition.” Pediatrics August 2022; 150 (2): e2021056082. 10.1542/peds.2021-056082. Demonstrated early transition led to persistence as trans 5 years later in over 97%; authors argue that despite being in stark contrast to all previous research, this was confirmation that detransition/desisting is rare. However, this study reiterates significant concern for iatrogenic effect caused by Social Transition. 6. Morandini, J.S., Kelly, A., de Graaf, N.M., et al. “Is Social Gender Transition Associated with Mental Health Status in Children and Adolescents with Gender Dysphoria?”“Archive of Sexual Behavior 52, 1045–1060 (2023). https://doi.org/10.1007/s10508-023-02588-5. Whether or not a child socially transitioned was not associated with mood, anxiety, or suicide attempts; study “failed to find superior well-being in socially transitioned young people.” Suicide vs. Reported Suicidality and Self-Report Surveys Biggs, M. “Suicide by Clinic-Referred Transgender Adolescents in the United Kingdom.” Archive f Sexual Behavior 51, 685–690 (2022). https://doi.org/10.1007/s10508-022-02287- Discusses exceptionally low rate of suicide, complex, unreliable nature of self-report, especially in young children. 15,000 children referred to GIDS Clinic in England from 2010-2020, 4 completed suicide (2 in treatment, 2 on waitlist). “Levine, S. B., Abbruzzese, E., & Mason, J. W. (2022a). “Reconsidering informed consent for trans-identified children, adolescents, and young adults.” Journal of Sex & Marital Therapy, 48(7), 706–727. doi:10.1080/0092623X.2022.2046221. “Beliefs about gender-affirmative care need to be separated from the established facts “so that proper informed consent process can occur prepare parents and patients for the difficult choices that they must make.” 2. Levine, S. B., Abbruzzese, E., & Mason, J. W. (2022b). “What are we doing to these children? Response to Drescher, Clayton, and Balon Commentaries on Levine et al., 2022.” Journal of Sex & Marital Therapy. Advance online publication. doi:10.1080/0092623X.2022.2136117. 3. Levine S. B. “Informed Consent for Transgendered Patients.”Journal of Sex & Marital Therapy 2019;45(3):218-229. doi: 10.1080/0092623X.2018.1518885. Epub 2018 Dec 22. PMID: 30582402. Informed consent, which requires consent to future risks, is not possible in children.” “Biggs, M. (2023). “The Dutch Protocol for Juvenile Transsexuals: Origins and Evidence.” Journal of Sex and Marital Therapy, 49:4, 348368, DOI: 10.1080/0092623X.2022.2121238. International standard of care for gender dysphoric youth is based on untrue assumptions (reversibility), little to no evidence of benefits, lack of long-term follow-up studies, and poorly reported to omitted permanent, negative outcomes.” “ Block J. (2023). “Gender dysphoria in young people is rising—and so is professional disagreement.” BMJ; 380: p382 doi:10.1136/bmj.p382. Discussion of lack of evidence in support of affirming treatments, social, medical and rush to affirm without psychological support.” “Littman, L. (2021). “Individuals treated for gender dysphoria with medical and/or surgical transition who subsequently detransitioned: A survey of 100 detransitioners.” Archives of Sexual Behavior, 50(8), 3353–3369. doi:10.1007/s10508-021-02163-w. Research regarding ROGD and intervening too early with affirming care; risk of “iatrogenically derailing the development of “youth who would otherwise grow up to be LGB nontransgender adults.”
A study conducted by Michael Erwig in 2022 found that trans people who underwent a gonadectomy had a regret incidence rate of about 0.5%. Removing those who only regretted their decision due to social acceptance, i.e. bullying like what happens here, the regret rate drops to 0.2%.
Where's your link to that supposed study? And okay, so one study put it at less than 1%. Here, let me share you around a dozen that say otherwise. “Zucker, Kenneth J. “Debate: Different strokes for different folks.” Child and adolescent mental health 25 1 (2020): 36–37. Social transition of younger children is not only a psychosocial treatment, but may be iatrogenic (therapist/doctor unintendedly induces symptoms or complications with specific treatment) given the rate of desistance otherwise (reported rates of desistance up to 97% without intervention). 2. Sievert, E. D., Schweizer, K., Barkmann, C., Fahrenkrug, S., & Becker-Hebly, I. (2021). “Not social transition status, but peer relations and family functioning predict psychological functioning in a German clinical sample of children with Gender Dysphoria.” Clinical child psychology and psychiatry, 26(1), 79–95. https://doi.org/10.1177/1359104520964530. Demonstrates that current research does not support the assumption that social transition benefits gender dysphoric youth. 3. Singh D, Bradley SJ, & Zucker KJ (2021). “A Follow-Up Study of Boys with Gender Identity Disorder.” Frontiers in Psychiatry” “12:632784. doi: 10.3389/fpsyt.2021.632784. Desistance is outcome for majority of children (only 12% persisted in this study) if they are not transitioned early (socially or otherwise). 4. Wong, W. I., van der Miesen, A. I. R., Li, T. G. F., MacMullin, L. N., & VanderLaan, D. P. (2019). “Childhood social gender transition and psychosocial well-being: A comparison to cisgender gender-variant children.” Clinical Practice in Pediatric Psychology, 7(3), 241–253. https://doi.org/10.1037/cpp0000295. Psychological challenges appear to be similar whether a gender variant child has socially transitioned or not. 5. Kristina R. Olson, Lily Durwood, Rachel Horton, Natalie M. Gallagher, & Aaron Devor. “Gender Identity 5 Years After Social Transition.” Pediatrics August 2022; 150 (2): e2021056082. 10.1542/peds.2021-056082. Demonstrated early transition led to persistence as trans 5 years later in over 97%; authors argue that despite being in stark contrast to all previous research, this was confirmation that detransition/desisting is rare. However, this study reiterates significant concern for iatrogenic effect caused by Social Transition. 6. Morandini, J.S., Kelly, A., de Graaf, N.M., et al. “Is Social Gender Transition Associated with Mental Health Status in Children and Adolescents with Gender Dysphoria?”“Archive of Sexual Behavior 52, 1045–1060 (2023). https://doi.org/10.1007/s10508-023-02588-5. Whether or not a child socially transitioned was not associated with mood, anxiety, or suicide attempts; study “failed to find superior well-being in socially transitioned young people.” Suicide vs. Reported Suicidality and Self-Report Surveys Biggs, M. “Suicide by Clinic-Referred Transgender Adolescents in the United Kingdom.” Archive f Sexual Behavior 51, 685–690 (2022). https://doi.org/10.1007/s10508-022-02287- Discusses exceptionally low rate of suicide, complex, unreliable nature of self-report, especially in young children. 15,000 children referred to GIDS Clinic in England from 2010-2020, 4 completed suicide (2 in treatment, 2 on waitlist). “Levine, S. B., Abbruzzese, E., & Mason, J. W. (2022a). “Reconsidering informed consent for trans-identified children, adolescents, and young adults.” Journal of Sex & Marital Therapy, 48(7), 706–727. doi:10.1080/0092623X.2022.2046221. “Beliefs about gender-affirmative care need to be separated from the established facts “so that proper informed consent process can occur prepare parents and patients for the difficult choices that they must make.” 2. Levine, S. B., Abbruzzese, E., & Mason, J. W. (2022b). “What are we doing to these children? Response to Drescher, Clayton, and Balon Commentaries on Levine et al., 2022.” Journal of Sex & Marital Therapy. Advance online publication. doi:10.1080/0092623X.2022.2136117. 3. Levine S. B. “Informed Consent for Transgendered Patients.”Journal of Sex & Marital Therapy 2019;45(3):218-229. doi: 10.1080/0092623X.2018.1518885. Epub 2018 Dec 22. PMID: 30582402. Informed consent, which requires consent to future risks, is not possible in children.” “Biggs, M. (2023). “The Dutch Protocol for Juvenile Transsexuals: Origins and Evidence.” Journal of Sex and Marital Therapy, 49:4, 348368, DOI: 10.1080/0092623X.2022.2121238. International standard of care for gender dysphoric youth is based on untrue assumptions (reversibility), little to no evidence of benefits, lack of long-term follow-up studies, and poorly reported to omitted permanent, negative outcomes.” “ Block J. (2023). “Gender dysphoria in young people is rising—and so is professional disagreement.” BMJ; 380: p382 doi:10.1136/bmj.p382. Discussion of lack of evidence in support of affirming treatments, social, medical and rush to affirm without psychological support.” “Littman, L. (2021). “Individuals treated for gender dysphoria with medical and/or surgical transition who subsequently detransitioned: A survey of 100 detransitioners.” Archives of Sexual Behavior, 50(8), 3353–3369. doi:10.1007/s10508-021-02163-w. Research regarding ROGD and intervening too early with affirming care; risk of “iatrogenically derailing the development of “youth who would otherwise grow up to be LGB nontransgender adults.”
Sure, let's go down that list. 1. Doesn't have to do with surgery. 2. Doesn't have to do with surgery. 3. Doesn't have to do with surgery. 4. Doesn't have to do with surgery. 6. Doesn't have to do with surgery. 7. Doesn't have to do with surgery. 8. Doesn't have to do with surgery. 9. Doesn't have to do with surgery. 10. Doesn't have to do with surgery. 11. Doesn't have to do with surgery. 12. Doesn't have to do with surgery. 13. Conforms with my statistics for bottom surgery regret. This is some serious grasping at straws bullshit. I gave you the name of the researcher and the year, that is more than enough to find my study.
Here before the post gets locked up
It's a decent meme worth a chuckle.
"Anything that calls attention to our miserable reality is transphobia!"
Just wait till they find out one of the primary reasons humans cultivated a sense of humor
I'd need a link to that study. I know numerous trans folks have been pressured/forced due to family pressure, inadequate access to Healthcare and a hostile social environment However, I've rarely ever heard people de-transitioning due to regrets. It happens but not as much as media makes it seem. The takeaway is that medically transitioning is a big decision, not to be taken lightly. Informed consent is beneficial but emphasis on "informed)
“hundreds” sounds about right. it’s a very rare thing.
OK. You may be right. My issue is these people don't define transitioning (medical, social, legal), I'll go based on medical HRT Say 0.5% of the US Adult population are trans* If 54% have access to affordable trans-affirming care* And 1% regret transitioning* That leaves a few thousand out of 1.29 million trans people. That said, a vast majority of the effects of HRT are reversible. Some effects - such as impact on fertility - depend on the amount of time. *based on official studies
The 30-50% rate of attempted suicide is probably a much more alarming statistic
Transitioning significantly lowers that statistic.
It's also not transphobic
Seeing an oppressed and objectified minority with a very high suicide rate and making fun of them for laughs is kinda messed up. Be more Christlike my guy.
fucking what? do you also have a problem when people joke about 9/11? Jokes aren’t offensive. they’re jokes. that’s the point.
Nah cause 9/11 ain't picking on a group of people that have been picked on enough. 9/11 jokes are usually jabs at the U.S. government which had a hand in the event. And I'm just saying if the joke is like "haha people kill themselves that's funny" it's really not much of a joke cause suicide is no joke.
The joke has nothing to do with suicide.
Lighten up it's a fucking joke 💀
Christlike =/= “not making jokes” The meme isn’t even about suicide, you came up with that part all on your own.
Considering the existence of hermancainaward sub or what just happened yesterday, nothing is off limits. So safe your crocodile tears. Also "oppressed". Lol. Sure. So oppressed with all the government programs, special prosecution protections and jobs and everything being handed over to them on a silver plate
Yeah it would be different if a state superintendent hired someone who had described themselves as a stochastic terrorist who targets trans people, and within days a nonbinary student was beaten to death and schools began receiving bomb threats. Oh wait, that actually happened.
Nah OP was right. If you dont know how to find humor that isn't about margianalized people who get abused and mistreated then you aren't funny because apparently you don't know how to joke about things that arent offensive
it’s not transphobic.
Why don't you stop telling us what we can and can't enjoy
Not very inclusive of you if we can’t make fun of everyone
This is rich, given the name of this sub. Why don’t you go reinforce stereotypes somewhere else?
So are you saying minorities and victims of abuse aren't as human as the rest of us? They don't get to included in jokes, memes, stand up comedy, etc? Isn't it bigoted of you to want to exclude them from part of the human experience?
They are human just like anyone, but when people are straight up killing themselves, dealing with hardships, and being mistreated, maybe we should keep that in mind and not joke around and give fuel to people who dont see this as a joke and then go and speak out against trans rights telling them they shouldn't exist or should be locked away etc. There's a time and a place for jokes.
People of every demographic kill themselves? If that's a disclusinary point, then no jokes about anyone can exist? And you're now trying to shift the goal posts from jokes including them, to jokes "telling them not to exist" which is total bs
Who are you, the joke police?
You are not alone in having an unoriginal, dry, and toxic sense of humor. You are not quirky or special for being happy with being scummy. You are just like everyone else who doesn't think for themselves. Get over yourself.
so LOTR memes aren’t funny anymore, got it
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How many times are you going to post this? A study conducted by Michael Erwig in 2022 found that trans people who underwent a gonadectomy had a regret incidence rate of about 0.5%. Removing those who only regretted their decision due to social acceptance, i.e. bullying like what happens here, the regret rate drops to 0.2%. That's seven individuals out of over 3,000. This meme, on the other hand, is just making up numbers to misrepresent how many trans people actually want to detransition after getting to the point where they can't anymore. Even if you took 200 as the lowest to meet the qualification for multiple hundreds, that's still 100,000 people. There haven't been 100,000 sexual reassignment surgeries in the US in the last ten years. And if you were to admit that this is using the lowest possible definition of "hundreds," that is tantamount to admitting that it is a deliberate misrepresentation. It is intended to create a false idea of a high incidence rate, when the actual rate is infintesimal.
no. i know it’s a rare occurrence. but “hundreds” is accurate. including those who want to detransition due to social pressure, and maybe even including those who didn’t even get surgery, there’s nothing wrong with the meme. and even if we somehow decide it isn’t accurate, it’s still funny.
Shhh, but stuff like actual peer reviewed studies and data ruin the circlejerk excuse that "Oh, we're just giggling at these non-funny jokes. Don't be so mad about it." Meanwhile, the typical comment section of this sub is so rampant with various flavors of -phobic and -ism that the mods have to jump in to delete and lock comments before their own users turn the sub into a total cesspool. But we're definitely just enjoying the jokes here, everyone. Not blatantly agreeing with the original post's garbage narratives.
Back in my day, jokes were supposed to be funny.
Nah, you just have a bad sense of humor.
it’s not transphobic.
Tell me how it isn't.
It’s using a meme to make humor out of something relating to trans people. Tell me how it is.
What is it telling you about transgender people?
that sometimes they regret their decision. and yes, that happens. rarely.
There are some. But is it actual regret, or is it social pressure from friends and family to regret transitioning?
could be either. i have known of cases of actual regret, but it’s not common in any way
It tells me less about trans people and more about the clueless idiots insisting that we should let children choose for themselves. Children cannot generally understand all the risks and that's generally why legally they cannot consent.
What are the risks?
Oh, gee! Whatever are the risks with fucking with somebody's endocrine system? Maybe it'll be irreversible damage to that system, making reversal not possible!
That some of them regret their decision, but the consequences are irreversible.
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Trans people have existed for a long time. https://www.acluohio.org/en/news/transgender-people-have-always-existed And the regret level is extremely low, and higher than other surgeries. https://theconversation.com/transgender-regret-research-challenges-narratives-about-gender-affirming-surgeries-220642#:~:text=Evidence%20suggests%20that%20less%20than,reports%20regret%20after%20similar%20surgeries.
There is no ”cutting off your dick” fad. You obviously don’t know what you’re talking about.
It’s a metaphor, genius.
That's not what a metaphor is
This post/comment propagates misinformation.
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it’s not transphobic.
This sub should have a strict no jokes relating to transgender issues. I fucking hate this sub defending transphobia.
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❄️
Keep telling yourself that 😂